Self Inflicted Wounds
BUNGLING Boro were plunged deeper into the relegation mire as Bolton hammered four more nails into our Premiership coffin - but it was Gareth Southgate's suicidal side who handed then the hammer.
All four goals were self-inflicted wounds, the inevitable product of a repeated shambolic failure to deal with set-pieces and routine balls into the box. It was embarrassing. With almost every attack Bolton carved open Boro and with better finishing on their part they could have won scored six or seven.
The gaffer had set out to be 'bold' and played as most supporters had demanded with width, two up front and Tuncay in the hole. Boro's survival hopes were gambled on an all out attack - but the problem was at the other end where Boro were simply awful.
All four goals were unmitigated disasters, textbook examples of how not to do it. For the opener the defence stood off Gardner and allowed him to cross to the far post where Pogatetz failed to deal with a situation he must face in training 100 times a week and the ball was allowed to sail through to unmarked Davies to score. Pathetic. Seven minutes gone and the dye was cast and the game was gone.
Boro were tortured in a torrid ten minute spell in which Jones kept them in it, then there was a brief flurry at the other end and Boro scored what was a well worked goal with neat touches from Alves and Tuncay before Gary O'Neil stroked home. It was the first away goal since Hull in December and they looked like they fancied it for a while... but that thin veneer of resistance cracked quickly as Bolton won a harmless looking free-kick and Boro's fragile defence capitulated again.
The second was the season encapsulated as Bates failed to clear a free-kick, the loose ball fell to an unmarked attacker and he was allowed to control unchallenged and roll it casually inside for Cahill, unmarked eight yards out, to rifle in and it was game over.
Bolton sat back after the break but despite being handed the initiative Boro could not break them down and whenever the home side broke quickly a panic-striken defence looked hopelessly exposed time and again.
The third goal was comical, a deep free-kick that sailed towards the wall and through Huth's airspace then inexplicably sailed over and bounced in at the far post. Pathetic. Was there a shout? Why didn't Huth head clear? Chaos and confusion. Pathetic.
And the fourth summed it up. Taylor given the space to wander down the left unchallenged and put in a cross towards an unmarked player on the far side... it was an exaggerated version of the opener but with even the token appearance of effort on Boro's part removed. No lessons learned.
The key words here: unchallenged, unmarked, space, freedom, time, quick break, failure to deal with a ball into the box, chances squandered.... that was not a team that showed the energy, desire, urgency or spirit to scrap for survival. There was no leadership, no spirit, no belief after the second goal went in. There was a muted air of resignation. It was embarrassing.
Afterwards a shell-shocked Southgate finally, belatedly, admitted that the next game - Hull - was a 'must win' match. If the team that turns out in that game shows the same shapeless, heartless defeatism, the same tactical confusion and the same emotional cowardice that was evident at Bolton then Boro face a humiliating, unequivocal disaster.
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Anthony Vickers
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I saw the match on TV here in Finland. The match more or less sums up the whole season. Scoring chances missed and bad defending.
I don't think that Bolton were the better team. But that was the case at Stoke, too. Tuncay had as many chances to score as Bolton had. Next Alves hit the post and the ball fall to the 'spot - and there were no red shirted player there to tap it in!
Easy goals conceded as AV reported above. Naive could be said. So this game summed up the whole season.
Still I hope for a better. If - and this is the real 'must win' game of the season - we beat Hull then there is a slight(!) chance for a late, late survival.
Let's fight until the end.
Up the Boro!
You are going down. Good riddance! Bye bye smoggys
The defence was a shambles all day. Not a lot you can say.
Going forward, the crowd had finally got the 'Tuncay behind the front two' formation they'd been crying out for. And you know what? We looked good going forward first half and scored our first away goal in 3 months.
So what did the manager do half time? Lost his bottle and went 442 and we looked as clueless as ever.
Alves' token attempts at making it look as though he was trying to win headers from great crosses from Stuey/O'Neill were truly frightening.
I wasn't there...I'm glad I wasn't there. This spineless bunch of overpaid underachievers do not deserve anything other than relegation and then most of them will walk no doubt, to 'further their careers' having destroyed Boro.
he fans however deserve more than that. Southgate is floundering and Lamb has blurted out thinly-veiled threats...'take it (relegation) on the chin..'and '..this club has been around for 130 years and will survive...'
I don't think there is a will within the club to try to avoid relegation, that much is clear from yesterday's abject display. When relegation comes, which it inevitably will, perhaps Mr Gibson will understandably see it as a chance to recoup some of the company's millions from the sale (albeit cut-price) of the so-called 'star players' who have let the fans down so badly, and then start again with the academy boys + Alves (who by now must be unsaleable) and try to stave off further relegation.
It's all very depressing, but not something that hasn't happened before. It's just that this time it will be well-nigh impossible to for us to return to the Premier League with the resources available.We have proved many times this season that we can't play against Championship-style teams and anyway, Gibson has already stated the financial difficulty of competing at the top level. This time relegation could just be terminal...
Strong words AV and certainly true. How low can we go? What depths can we reach in terms of embarrassment and humiliation?
We have moved beyond the point of singling out Southgate whose admission of letting the players know the strength of his feelings, is akin, to quote an old phrase, like being 'ravaged by a dead sheep'.
There has to be accountability for this decline and Gibson has to shoulder this entirely. The so called 'untouchable' by some fans who offer their support unconditionally and will not question him because of what he has done for the club surely need a reality check.
He has presided over the shambles of trying to maintain a position in the Premier League by appointing a management team on the cheap, staying loyal when change was called for- (too late now by the way). If the club was indebted to him he should have sought another buyer or buyers rather than offering the pretence of ambition and continuity.
We need to start all over again, most probably in a lower division. I wouldn't lose sleep if Gibson sold up, a new owner(s) new management team, a new ethos was created .We are on the slide and to use an old Yorkshire word Gibson hasn't the 'gumption' to deal with it.
For too long the supporters have been kidded, myself included,with the vision of better things to come, well the game is up now and the price is relegation.
"They shoot horses don't they"?
Having finished in the top half the Premier League just twice in the 12 out of 13 seasons Boro have been there since Bryan Robson took us up in 1995, this was sadly on the cards.
The cup runs wallpapered over the cracks but Boro have never shown any ability to roll the positives from one season into the next. For the past two seasons, we were in a position where it was still possible to be relegated with two games left to go and had relied on runs to even get us to that relatively safe place.
This season, with no strikers and with an apparently solid defence which just seems to lose any concentration 3-4 times per game (as at Tottenham or apparently at Bolton yesterday) we simply don't have enough solidity or heart to take control of our own destiny.
Sadly Gibson made the wrong choice in appointing Gareth (who has a dignity and honour that stands him apart from what passes for being a 'man' in the football world) too early and by repeating the bloody mindedness that led him to stick for too long with both of the bizarre and underachieving rookies who came before.
These three poor choices have squandered the resources Gibbo gave them but after two learner drivers hadn't worked out, today's reality makes the Martin O'Neill saga in 2006 looks even more like complacent error than ever.
It seems much longer ago than three years now, but the ghost of the Eindhoven run has well and truly disappeared. It seems that the club's ambition didn't extend much beyond changing the badge (because directors didn't like being asked if we had only started in 1986) but the rest was allowed to wither.
I hope this time more serious thought is put into how we get out of the Championship and whether, the next time we get promoted, we have any more ambition than mere survival and the occasional shiny bauble of a cup run.
Things will get real ugly, real quick against Hull if we go behind. I think the crowd will finally turn and a years worth of well-earned bitterness, bile and resentment that's being building up since Cardiff comes spilling out in front of god and everybody.
Maybe it needs to happen too. In the same way a thunderstorm clears the air and a blazing row allows for a making-up; certain individuals need an overdue, public rocket.
Is there anything left to say? Ive seen it all season and every week from you guys, lets just leave it, i really dont think its worth talking about here, im actually putting more effort and organisation into writing this email.
They have eyes on new clubs (pogi, Huth,etc etc) and they seriously and genuinely dont give a hoot about this club or the area, its just a sad sad embarrassing shame. Imagine if we had REALLY fought to get Martin O'neill after losing McClaren .....imagine? We could've been the next villa..Now....we're the next Leeds.
As always the truth hurts, but unfortunately for us the signs have been there as early as July 2008.
I knows its a usual boo-boys complaint, for which I have condemned them all for, but unfortunately I can now only say that they were right from the beginning.
We pretty much deleted the midfield and only brought in the already injury-prone Digard (who has been good when available) and that is where games are won and lost.
As usual with Boro we don't seem to scout players before we buy them! Can anybody explain what our scouts actually do? I mean really? Do they just go and watch a game and go "He's OK lets get him." I will hand my CV in to the club and see if I could get a job as a scout, seems easy, but I digress.
Looks like the Fizzy-pop league for us next season. In an optimistic view at least we get to see more games next season.....lets hope its a team that have fewer glaringly obvious weaknesses.
Well, back from Bolton and had 24 hours to digest both the game and comments from GS. I thought the turnout of fans was superb and the backing until the 4th went in was tremendous so lets have no more digs at the supporters.
AV hit the nail on the head, I felt Bolton were going to score every time they attacked, we were absolutely woeful at the back.
Today I picked up on a couple of Gareths comments which stupify and mystify. The first on the official web site titled We Have To Give Pride Back. The last paragraph is as follows;
"We are where we are because we deserve to be.We have to learn some lessons very quickly and we have to beat Hull,its as simple as that."
Gareth stop with the learning lessons please, its becoming embarrassing.
The next is on ITV teletext where he is quoted as saying 'we must win at least one of our next two matches." If the quote is correct, it is absolutely staggering.
I thought I would get back to Teesside last night to the announcement that Southgate had resigned, yes at this stage it won't make any difference either way but he has nothing left to offer.The whole thing is a train wreck,and the quicker everyone is put out of their misery (Southgate included) the better.
I find it difficult to sum up what I saw yesterday without turning the air blue.
If football matches were won by teams which lacked leadership, courage, character and fight then we would have won the league by now. Do these players think they are too good to roll their sleeves up?
I don't get the impression that they care less about salvaging their own (or their manager's) reputation and pride. Although the reason we are in the position we are in is down to Southgate's inability to replace players who have left with the money available, I find myself feeling sorry for him.
Those players should be bursting their guts to wind every challenge. I think AV summed the performance up perfectly - 'pathetic'.
When the majority (or all) of our better players leave in the post-relegation summer i really don't see how any of them can hold their heads up high and know they tried their best because, at the moment we are going down with a whimper.
All we ask is for 100% knowing that, even that may not be enough. I am furious and upset that over a decade in the top flight is being ripped apart at the seams.
People say that 'its only a game' but it honestly makes me feel physically sick that a team of players who are paid obscene amounts of money to play for the club consistently produce crap, heartless performances.
Im not sure if this assessment seems harsh but I just needed to get this out of my system. Sorry the rant was a little long-winded and a little over the top, perhaps.
Any thoughts, AV?
Waking up on the far side of the earth, I raced to check out the internet to see how many Boro had won by............instead I now see that dreaded drop hole we will surely be falling into within a few weeks.
Another dismal display. More excuses! Fed up and ripped off travelling fans! At least I am no longer wasting my money on watching it live, but it still hurts!
In fact, I have resigned myself to Championship football for the next few years. There will be no quick return as our 'star players' will be opting for other clubs by the end of May, leaving those that are loyal, young in service or past it to attempt to push for promotion.
I hate to say it but although Southgate is a nice man and played for England (albeit without winning anything), he just wasn't ready to take Management at this level on. He is too nice and as can be seen from our results, his judgement has not been the best. Yes, its down to the players once the game starts, but he picks them, he decides tactics and he has failed to motivate them enough.
We should have been pushing for Europe, but instead, we will be feeling the humiliation of relegation below the likes of Hull, Stoke and Bolton. Oh well, that is the curse of being a Boro fan. Its always a nerve ending finish to a season, with the one memorable push for Europe or the familiar, avoid the drop campaign.
Our Boro. R.I.P. Pity the P won't mean Premiership. John Aus
A.V PLease tell me again how going down into the Premiership will be a financial disaster with the loss of revenue stream involved. No, better still could you tell Steve Gibson, because I have never witnessed any body work so hard to get a club relegated.
Every action of the Chairman since Eindhoven has apparently been aimed at relinquishing the club's Premier League status, asset stripping, rookie manager, inferior signings etc etc. And just to cap it all the "bolt from the blue" statement from a Chairman of a club that had flirted with relegation every season but one.
Like Ian above I cannot get annoyed, angry, or frustrated over the Boro's demise. It is the inevitable reasult of the Chairman's policies. Just so that I am not branded a doom and gloom merchant, my son and I will be at the Hull and Fulham matches, and he has never seen the Boro lose, so there's six points in the bag... mind you he has only seen two games.
Keep the faith? Yes, all Boro supporters will, but we are hostages to fortune of the actions of the Chairman
It was dire, no sprit, no guts, no coordination. We are the poorest team in the league. How about 'Sven' for a last desperate attempt at staying up? I'm sure he would welcome the chance and we certainly couldn't do worse than we are now.
This was Boro's ninth successive defeat on the road, our worst run since the Second World War.
I don't blame Southgate anymore. It's well past that, its Steve Gibson who has to carry the can. If he honestly sees something that gives cause for optimism watching the pantomime that Southgate delivers week in week out then he is very sadly deluded.
I'm convinced now it has become an ego thing and that he is in complete denial that he has made a huge error and has adopted an Ostrich stance. No leadership on the pitch, no leadership on the bench and no leadership from the boardroom, it can only get worse......a lot worse!
If the same organisational team adopts the same approach in the Championship then read Charlton/Southampton. Can you imagine playing Southgate's fast, attractive, skilfull football with the hoofers down there? There again I haven't seen much fast, attractive, skilfull football since August and even then it was only in the briefest of glimpses.
Another glaring example of Boro’s inability to play with grit and determination at either end of the pitch.
Once again, in the midfield some pretty football to admire but at the business ends of the pitch we are gutless. Where was the pouring forward that GS promised? Despite GS’s frailties, how can any manager legislate for such juvenile errors displayed by Pog and Huth for the first and third goals? These guys are international defenders yet played like nervous debutants. Shocking.
Where was the John Terry-like blood and guts determination to get on the end of a ball? Bolton were an OK side on the day, competent at best yet we hardly put them under any real pressure. The goal apart, our only clear cut chance coming from a defensive blunder, which Alves failed to convert.
Same old defensive errors, same old striking errors. How will this change for the next two vital home games? Does anyone look forward to the Hull game? I will be at the Riverside but feel hardly any enthusiasm, for the moment at least. That will emerge during the week no doubt. Dare GS suggest this is not a “must win” game?
The free kick said it all. Not even Alan Shearer can save us now. That was our only hope that he would screw the Toons up so badly. The Arab Sat Tv channel only showed the second half as they forgot Summer Time!! The match was on the comedy channel so I suppose we couldn't have hoped for anything more.
The table suggests that two NE clubs are going down unless West brom have a revival then all three of us are there. Anyhow thats what you get for watching the match in first place. Seven games to go and no points in sight.
Have to agree with Ian. The past feelings of heartache, anger, despair etc have been replaced with a feeling of helplessness and not really caring anymore. I hope for the future of the club that we are the tiny minority!
It depresses me that Boro are going down. I don't blame Southgate even though i don't think he is the right man for the job. His hands have been tied as the club are in so much debt, although i'm sure that if we'd had a mentor for him like venables again, we would have been nearer mid-table.
For me it was obvious which way Boro were going as soon as they appointed Southgate, it showed a lack of ambition when more experienced managers were available such as O'neill and Curbishley. Gibson tried to cut costs and it has back fired.
Another major factor in my opinion is Alves, and I was one of the people that thought he would be brilliant. If only we had gone for Crouch instead, he would have been in doubles by now with Downing's crosses.
Next season I can't see a drastic improvement in the championship as gates drop to around the 16,000 mark. Boro fans won't turn up to watch garbage repeatedly like the Geordies and Mackems do, we end up voting with our feet.
The only consolation for me is that I could see this was going to come so I put a bet on us going down months ago when it was 11/4. I know most of you are probably thinking "traitor" but my reasoning for it was that it hurts me just as much as anyone to see Boro relegated that I needed something to make me feel better. I hope Boro prove me wrong and i'd happily not claim the cash but sadly I think I can spend it already.
Well, Well, Well. No surprises there then. No trick up Southgates sleeve to save us. Nothing, just plain nothing. Your summery was spot on AV. SPOT ON.
Well I for one have had enough of toeing the party line. There is no use deluding ourselves until its mathematically certain. Despite my better judgment I have toeed the party line for two and a half seasons hoping against hope that I was wrong and Southgate could learn on the job.
The fact is that none of us including Steve Gibson had any reason or the right to put our blind faith in Gareth. His first two seasons in charge were terrible and the team were clearly going backwards rapidly. He had an agenda to dismantle Steve McClarens squad and back room staff.
Gareth's man management skills were clearly very poor to put it mildly and he obviously found it hard to forgive players for any little spat. Hence his treatment of Boeteng, Queudrue, Mendieta,Hasslebank, Parnarby, Riggott, Schwarzer and more. All ex team mates friends and UEFA Cup finalists. Gone.
Then his disregard for the clubs hard earned youth policy. I never in my worst nightmares ever expected to see the clubs best young talent sold off, given away or mistreated under Steve Gibsons tenure. BUT IT HAS HAPPENED. Morrison, Cattlemole and soon Downing sold off. Parnaby, Brunt, Hutchinson, good players left for next to nothing and unless I am wrong Turnbull, McMohon and Bates not signed up yet with other big clubs sniffing so no doubt we will lose them in the summer for nothing too if Gareth is still here.
Then Southgate's man management of Johnson, Emnes, Turnbull, McMahon, Taylor, Wheater, Huth, Tuncay and yes even Mido has been appalling. No wonder they don't play with confidence.
And tactically Southgate is a novice, clueless. He has no idea where things go wrong in a game or how to change a game to put things right. He does not know that you play to your strengths and play on the opponents weaknesses. In three seasons he's not worked out how to defend or use set pieces. Clueless. He has this delusion that passing the ball around in midfield is good football.
Then his transfer dealings have been a contributor to the clubs debt. Only Luke Young was sold for a good price and what folly that turned out to be. Only Tuncay was a gift and Woodgate and Young fairly priced. The rest of the players bought in have all been over priced with to many failures.
My biggest worry now though is that as I've herd on the grapevine Gareth will be staying on next season to try to get us back up and if that's the truth I can see the club disintegrating and even our local hero Steve Gibson going after the collapse of the club. I say we don't have eight games to save our Premier status we have eight games to get Gareth out of BORO to save our beloved club.
I ask you, who did more damage to Boro in three years, Gareth or Charlie Amer?
AdyMac
No one at the Boro is going to prove you wrong. Enjoy your winnings.
I can't believe the quote from GS in the Observer this morning; "My responsibility over the 7 remaining games is to ensure that we at least play with some pride."
WHAT? Your responsibility, Gareth, as it always has been, is to keep Boro in the Premier League. If he really did say this, it is defeatism pure and simple, and it is this attitude which will definitely see us relegated.
It is very obvious that he has not been able to motivate this useless shower for months - 6 points taken from 57!! - yet he is still here, and still peddling this tripe about lessons. Now he adds "pride" to it all.
It's not pride we need Gareth, it's goals, it's simple back-to-basics defending (Chris Riggott back please, and Pogatetz left back in the dressing room) and it's good honest spirit and 100% effort, such as Bolton showed admirably yesterday. You can't deliver any of these, and why Steve Gibson can't see this is beyond me.
We're sleep-walking into relegation. NOW, surely, we must bring someone in like Venables to guide us through the last 7 games? Without this, we are quite definitely doomed, probably for a very long time.
Gutless and useless again. One of the most depressing performances from Boro I've ever seen. Only Tuncay came out of this game with any credit. Thank goodness I only had 8 miles to drive home instead of the usual 120.
What ever the many mistakes by GS and the club this season I do have some sympathy for a bloke who clearly cares but has to send out a team with so many gutless cowards in it. How can you legislate for two international defenders simply failing to connect with the ball.
I suggest GS actually asks the players this week who actually wants to play against Hull and makes his selection on that basis, with Wheater as captain. The rest who are turning up merely out of a contractual obligation can start negotiating their way out now.
I sincerely hope that there is no club, gazette, or supporters club "player of the season" award this year. Such a prize would be an insult to fans and previous recipients. Non-player of the year would be a more worthy and hotly contested vote.
**AV writes: We were discussing the difficulties of the player of the year award on the way back from Bolton. Right now there isn't a single serious candidate that wouldn't throw up a mess of political objections.
'Boro supporter living in spain' has summed up exactly. What I would like is this piece of literature treated as a 'Parliamentary Question' and Steve Gibson and GS having to answer 'truthfully' to every point raised.
This should then be extended to a 'coroners inquest' and legislation should be passed to ensure this disaster cannot ever happen again.
Apologies for the off the cuff thought but everything most people have commented on over the last few months says it all. I am just disgusted the way the club has declined.
SG commented that Steve Mac was 'ruthless' well you have to be 'ruthless' to be successful and maybe Martin O'Neill may off just been too much of a challenge for SG because he would of been demanding and he certainly has a 'ruthless' streak. GS is not ruthless, never will be because it is not in his nature.
Good player for Boro and 'thank you' but as manager - go and learn your trade for a few years to give yourself a chance. My prediction for next year - mid-table in the Championship but with the team still in decline. RIP BORO.
So, at the end of it all, what have we achieved?
A decent enough ground in the middle of a wasteland; a cast list of foreigners who did sometimes, and sometimes not, just enough to claim their riches before clearing off; yes, ok, a cup win to be proud of but, my God, how long ago does that seem; a team regularly struggling in the bottom half of the league.... so, despite all the hype and misplaced loyalty, it's not that much of an achievement, is it? Never the less, Steve, thanks for everything...But surely it's time to go now, isn't it?
"When you look at the potential he had there and his ability to transform them into those results, you have to realise you are dealing with someone unusual." -- the late great Peter Cook 1993 -- sound familiar, anyone?
Jokes (or spooky premonitions) aside (& I do actually like Gareth Southgate and hope he comes good) it strikes me that a "must win" game (finally Gareth's admission) is exactly what we need. Teams that know precisely what to do tend to go out and do it (look at Fulham, West Brom in recent years). Let's just go for it.
Pompey fans down here (and my U16 team is full of 'em) still fear us the most because they recognise the quality we have compared to the rest - I mean, come on - Stoke City ??.
Another quotation to finish -
"the patient may be ill, but he's not dead yet" -- Lennie Lawrence.
Come on Boro
"When you look at the potential he had there and his ability to transform them into those results, you have to realise you are dealing with someone unusual." -- the late great Peter Cook 1993 -- sound familiar, anyone?
Jokes (or spooky premonitions) aside (& I do actually like Gareth Southgate and hope he comes good) it strikes me that a "must win" game (finally Gareth's admission) is exactly what we need. Teams that know precisely what to do tend to go out and do it (look at Fulham, West Brom... in recent years). FFS, let's just go for it.
Pompey fans down here (and my U16 team is full of 'em) still fear us the most because they recognise the quality we have compared to the rest - I mean, come on - Stoke City ??.
Another quotation to finish -
"the patient may be ill, but he's not dead yet" -- Lennie Lawrence.
Come on Boro
Back in the boro for one last premiership game. Then back to europe where everything seems better!
After UEFA final, savings maybe 80 million on manager and blah, aftergod who knows were Gibsons fortunes will stand. Any fan saying Gibson is a god, wake up.
Just before posting on my intended main thrust here, I've just read the last few posts laying the "blame" squarely on Gareth Southgate.
I disagree, and I consider "blame" to be an inappropriate term. Southgate was a Gibson appointment in the full knowledge of his managerial "rookie" status. I also recognise in some of the postings, a failure to realise that Southgate was working under the direction of and within constraints set by Steve Gibson - or perhaps even Steve Gibson's bankers!
In the light of the above, perhaps it will sound strange that I don't "blame" Steve Gibson either! My rationale will, hopefully, be explained in the following post and in the more detailed piece on Boro Banter.......
I don’t think there’s one person on Teesside who genuinely believes that Boro will survive in the Premier League this year. That includes, I believe, all at the club. And because of that lack of genuine belief, as well as the team not being good enough, we’re going down. Whether it’s come “out of the blue” or not!
The stark facts are that the currently-assembled Boro squad are not good enough to survive in the Premier League. That’s my reality.
However, I believe it is unfair and inappropriate for people to begin to denigrate the Chairman, Steve Gibson.
The signs are already there. The war cries of the wronged are already in their throats. The sentiments of blog postings and comments are already turning as “Sir” Steve, “One of us” is not only ostracised, but does a “full 180” and becomes public enemy #1.
But before “doing a Newcastle” and castigating the Boro Chairman, it is worth considering the matter as objectively as possible and taking in some wider perspectives.
It was Steve Gibson’s backing of MFC that brought the club back from extinction in 1986 and brought the most successful 22 years in the history of the town’s football team. Until 2005-6, the support and Steve Gibson’s aspirations were largely in harmony. Why? - because the two planets of sporting and commercial capabilities were in alignment.
Around 2005-6, that’s when it started to go wrong. I believe it was about then that Steve Gibson took a reality check on what was achievable financially and therefore, how it might translate in footballing achievement terms.
At this time, when nerves are possibly at their most raw, it’s the most likely time for Boro supporters to turn against the club management. But if each individual supporter can feel as badly as they do because their beloved club is heading for the drop, it would perhaps be more charitable to consider how Steve Gibson feels when not only does he have the club in which he also has invested his emotions heading downhill faster than Jean-Claude Killy, but he has the additional concerns of a business whose income stream is about to be decimated and saddled with goodness knows how much debt that accrued while financing the glory years!
The impression that the rest of the country has of Boro, I believe, is of a small, but well-run and locally-supported, provincial football club that occasionally punched above its true weight. When we leave the Premier League, we should do so with dignity and with as much demonstrable solidarity as possible. To do otherwise would be embarrassing and not worthy of the last 22 years.
Boro has experienced its own economic credit crunch but some of the supporting public haven’t been too aware of it and possibly don’t even care. They have been sheltered from the reality by Steve Gibson. Whether this proves to have been an appropriate and well-judged strategy or whether the backlash will develop into full-scale mutiny remains to be seen. But it would be a dreadful shame and an indictment on the club’s support if it did.
Let’s hope that common sense prevails.
**AV writes: I agree completely.
I think we can all see now the way things have panned out. Steve Gibson decided that we could not go on losing huge sums of money each year. He needs to run the club on a cheaper business model. He believes that even with making quite severe cuts to the budget we still can stay up.
Unfortunately we've cut too deep and too far quickly which has left us short in midfield [3 out 1 in] last summer. Add to this the non-performance of Alves and it explains why we are in our predicament. They also underestimated the ability of Stoke and Hull to acccumulate points.
In January he had the option of making a change on the coaching side or alternately sacrificing our most saleable asset Downing to raise funds for a couple of experienced players. A strategic decision was made to stick with what we had which has backfired spectacularly.
Our chances of survival are remote to say the least.I can't see how keeping Southgate in charge in the Championship is viable after this season from a commercial point of view. Steve Gibson risks alienating a fair chunk of the bedrock support unless he is seen to be taking some action to stop the rot.
I actually feel quite sorry for Southgate who is a decent honest man but Gibson's money has run out and somebody is going to have to carry the can for what has happened.
If it weren't for West Brom it would be a truly depressing time to be a football supporter in the North East. Filling 3 out of the bottom 4 places in the Premiership, Hartlepool hovering dangerously above the relegation zone, and Darlo in Administration.
I'm trying to decide which of Newcastle or Sunderland I think will drop with us. On balance I think Newcastle are the more likely to survive (they still have a home game against us!), with Sunderland joining us down in League 1 next year. Strangely enough, after 11 years of generally struggling, I'm quite looking forward to it!
Now that I feel more comfortable about relegation, in the aftermath of the result against Bolton, I have been looking at what we might be left with if, as it seems, we go down.
It is not a bad picture actually, and hardly makes horror reading. We might be better off from a spectator involvement and enjoyment point of view given the group of local lads as opposed to the abject failure of some of our so called stars this year. It will bring back the days of Brucie Rioch!!
Jones, Steele (I think Turnbull may move on)
Defenders : Rhys Williams, John Johnson, McMahon, Wheater, Riggott (?), Hines, Taylor, Grounds, Bennett
Midfield : Walker, Adam Johnson, Walker, Porritt, Bates
Striker : Franks
We would obviously have to bolster that squad with four or five more experienced campaigners (Archie Stephens and Bernie types!!) then we would have the making of a good squad for the Championship. The list above omits possibles who may stay, like Hoyte, Arca and Digard, for one season at least
We ought to pull in around 40 million for our ‘big stars’. Let’s say 15M of that to be spent on players.
Competitive games, a chance of winning the league, decent crowds, wholehearted players... the more I think about the more I look forward to it.
SOUTHGATE OUT TO SAVE THE BORO
That is the only campaign this club needs now. No more ‘Keep the faith’ campaigns. No more ‘Survival dogfight’ posters. IT’S GAME OVER. Southgate has failed. His own players, the fans, the pundits, even opposing supporters, can see it. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can start to rescue this club from the devastation he has wrought.
Waiting until the end of the season will only compound the disenchantment felt by the players and the supporters. With Southgate gone we may have a chance of keeping some of the players we will need just to survive in the Championship - and some of the fans, whose revenue and support is just as vital.
Gibson must be made to see that an end-of-season inquest will be too late! This season has gone. THE TIME TO START PLANNING IS NOW!! Southgate cannot be allowed to continue this debacle in the Championship. Our new manager will need as much time as possible to deal with the player exodus and prepare for what is widely acknowledged as a very tough league.
The Gazette will, no doubt, sit on the fence and toe the party (Gibson) line, so don’t sit and take it at the Hull game make your voice heard – where’s that bloke who threw his season ticket at McClaren when we need you (and more like you)?
Don’t take a win against an outfit like Hull as a new dawn, it won’t be (it wasn’t against Wolves, it wasn’t against West Ham and it wasn’t against Liverpool).
Shout until Gibson is forced from his seat and into action.
Many of us have been castigated over the last three years for our opposition to Southgates appointment and the direction that Gibson was taking the club, but we were right so support us now.
SOUTHGATE OUT TO SAVE THE BORO
Dear BOROLAND Compatriots,
I am already in mourning as I do not see how this precipitious slide can be halted. It's as if we have witnessed the slow but sure ripping out of heart and passion within the club as the good ship BORO sinks to the ocean floor.
Watching the team reminded me of a poor lost dog...the thought is "Why am I here...what am I looking for?" Dim recollections of what it was to feel truly alive when you were with kith and kin who loved you.
When I visited Rockliffe the day before the Stoke game I felt uncomfortable at seeing the glossy magazines for yachts etc and suggested we put some pictures of UNICEF families and some of our own poor unfortunates to help stir the moral sensibilities of some of our players... to play with passion and gratitude... thanking God for the marvellous jobs they have and that they don't have to suffer unemployment, poverty etc.
But no, only the shameless lust for conspicuous wealth seems to dominate some people's minds. Some of the players may recognise this as the gratuitous mirage and distortion of human life for what it is...some may not.
If there is ANY hope that the 1st team can play for GLORY then we may yet be saved...however maybe this is my own personal mirage?
We are coming up for the Hell game... if the team do not perform expect the "monstrous anger" of the fans to detonate a crack of doom the consequences of which will reverberate well into next season.
THERE WILL BE MAJOR CHANGES AT MIDDLESBROUGH FOOTBALL CLUB...and not before time.
Robin Mitton CEO SUPERTEAM SPORTS (EU+ARABIC)
www.superteamsports.com.br
I live up in Newcastle and had friends up from home for the weekend. As you can imagine, we were not happy with the day's result.
So who do we see in the VIP area of the club we went to? Bradley Jones and Julio Arca, having a well-earned party after a good day's work. I'm sure that they were reflecting on the valuable lessons they'd learned from the day, but they seemed to be having the time of their lives behind a velvet rope that nobody bar them and their entourage were allowed past.
These people are professional athletes, looking down the barrel of a relegation. In fact, this superiority complex and apparent carefree attitude is why there is a greater distance than ever between those of us shovelling cash into the club we love, and those carting it out of an employer they appear utterly indifferent to.
Presumably they didn't dare show their faces in the Boro.
It's difficult to see where the Boro go from here. Why is Gibson waiting until the summer to start the inquiry?
Surely if a man of Gibson's experience sat down and thought about the reasons for Boro's decline he could come to some conclusions.
Who now believes that Southgate can somehow inspire the players to 'turn it around' and dramatically escape relegation. Most of us agree that Gareth is an intelligent decent bloke - but is that what makes a top manager? Is SAF a decent bloke? or Rafa or Moyes or even Wenger or any other sucessful manager?
Maybe the problem of the Southgate and Cooper regime is that everybody is now supposed to be a decent bloke at Boro and if you're not able to meet these standards then you're out - gone are the so called trouble-makers, the likes of Cattemole and Mido and others mentioned in these posts.
Then we wonder if the players have the character or balls to stand up and fight for survival - OK it may be a cliche but it's more often true - nice guys don't alway win. Southgate says it's a pleasure to work with such a great bunch of players and the players also return the compliment.
Sorry but it all sounds too cosy - football is supposed to be played to win and that sometimes needs a heathy mix of the good, the bad and the ugly. I'm surprised that there's any time for training at the Boro with everybody from Gibson down all busy opening the door for each other and saying 'after you'.
OK, let's all sit proudly and glow in the admiration of the country as we are relegated with impecable manners as a jolly decent club - maybe we could play Chariots of Fire as the players run onto the pitch to remind opposing teams that we intend to play with the ideals of yester-year.
Recriminations may be natural but they're not going to keep us up. Southgate's been showing a bunker mentality of late (as well he might), talking in platitudes and losing touch with reality, very intelligent (and likeable) man though he is.
The only SLIGHT hope is to bring a strong, experienced and shrewd head, either to replace Southgate or to take the reins with him still there. It'll cost - assuming we can get someone - but what'll it cost if we go down.
With the right person in there we can stay up!
Werdermouth and Stockton Red: The Inquiry's already been held -
http://borobanter.gazettelive.co.uk/2009/03/the-out-of-the-blue-inquiry.html
But it needs to be digested in two or three sittings!
Richard, I read your excellent satirical review of the season a few days ago - I can only hope the actual inquiry would be so honest.
If we're talking about lessons learnt then I would put forward 'Pride comes before a fall' - clearly Southgate has no intention of resigning in the belief his professional pride won't allow it and similarly Gibson has no intention of sacking Southgate because he's proud of his image as a patient chairman who fully supports his managers.
I think the difference between Boro and the Mags is that Newcastle is club run by an impatient and overly optimistic owner watched by deluded fans - whereas Boro is a club run by an increasingly deluded and patient owner watched by overly pessimistic fans.
'Resigning would be like suicide.' Southgate. For me, GS, that would be more like a blessing. The man has clearly lost it, but then he never really had it. Question- How many of the 'moved on' players will enjoy relegation this season?
This is also down to the club decision to let Schwarzer leave and not sign someone. Both Turnbull and Jones have been absolutely pathetic all season and have cost us so many points.
Im all for giving youth a chance but they have done it at the price of our premier league status. The defence plays so badly due to the fear factor they no doubt have when they play in front of either of these inept clowns. They both failed out on loan, they have both failed here at Boro. Neither of them are even league one standard which is where we will be unless they are both replaced.
Richard / Anthony,
Both of you are showing signs of a 'classic' Boro inferiority complex.
Constructing arguments that put Southgate and Gibson in a good light irrespective of what they do is no good to anyone. We have a good side that should be in the middle of the Premier League. To say we have got what we deserve is in my opinion pitiful. I can't think of any manager who would get that team relegated.
Gibson is a great Chariman but has been vain and weak when it comes to removing managers. Southgate had every chance and has proved to be lacking in judgement and a very poor man manager. He will never get another Job (like Robson).
Gibson - ruthless business man ????? Not with Boro employees.
**AV writes: The objective reality is that Boro could NOT continue spending money the way that had been without dire consequences and it had to be reined in. The club have been telling us that quite clearly for years now ("sooner or later Teesside will get the club it can afford") and have made it obvious they are moving towards a sustainable new model, a model I support because it is the only one outside squillionaire ownership that offers any long term hope of competing at this level.
That came with risks. Trimming the squad of experience was a massive gamble. We all knew that and I for one have warned about it, here and in the paper. Support for the strategy does not for a second imply uncritical backing for every decision, far from it. Clearly a lot of mistakes have been made - this season went wrong when Luke Young was sold on the eve of the big kick-off for instance - but we should be wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Cardiff defeat was a massive blow that the fans (and club) are still reeling from - I've not been back since. First time in many years.
The situation reminds me of the atmosphere when we got beat by Wolves in quarter finals in the 80's. It took a long time to recover.
On the other hand, we have no automatic right to be in prem. And for the siaze of the club doing so is a fantastic acheivement. Just a shame the dream seems over
@ Richard (and AV who agrees completely)
So if Gibson had the foresight to be able to anticipate our current financial situation all the way back in 2005/2006, why did he sanction a £13m move for Afonso Alves? Wouldn't it have made a bit more sense to go for an experienced, proven striker like James Beattie? What about the £4m spent on Marvin Emnes? How much of a profit does Gibson expect to see on that investment? That's an awful lot of money for our provincial little club.
**AV writes: Alves was paid for by the exit of Yakubu and Woodgate... and while I agree the money thus juggled would have been better spent on a proven warhorse like Beattie and a £5-6m midfielder, at the time most Boro fans were ecstatic at having signed him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Wake up and smell the coffee you Southgate lovers.
In Portugal at Boros pre season tournament I was amazed by your flags and banners that read Southgate our messiah. I could not get it then and can not get your deluded support for the guy now.
POOR SOUTHGATE? Bunkem. Yes Steve Gibson picked him so has to own up to his mistake. Yes Gareth was a very good player/captain for the Boro and will always be in our hearts for this and Yes we are all aware that the financial meltdown has hit Steve Gibson along with the rest of us.
But facts are facts. Southgate has had incredible support from Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb. He took over an excellent squad and a fine backroom staff. He has spent in the transfer market more than many teams above us and has had a steady stream of talent coming from the youth development department .Despite this he has failed big time.
There has been managers for years working on a shoe string and surviving. Look at the success of Moyles at Everton without spending fortunes. How many good decisions has he made in three years? Not a whole lot.
So no I don't blame Steve Gibson or the Global downturn that has hit us all and I hope against hope that no one is stupid enough to have a go at Steve Gibson over this relegation. He has been, is now and always will be a hero to me and should be for every Boro fan for his commitment to our Boro. NO there is only one man to blame GARETH SOUTHGATE I hope he goes soon.
**AV writes: You think Moyles is working on a shoestring? How much did he pay for Yakubu again? Felliaini? Arteta? Hardly peanuts.
"Down with the Geordies, we're going down with the Gerodies, down with the Geordies..."
Once most teams know they are relegated, all the fear and panic goes and usually you see some good performances.
Would it not be worth GS using a bit of reverse psychology and saying "right lads, we're already down, now lets stop worrying about it and go out there and enjoy playing for the last 7 games"
I am old enough to remember Steve Gibson saving the Boro in 1986. We really needed him then and he came up trumps. Since then we have had more success than ever before in our history.
Now that we are going through a bad time and he needs us, shall we desert him? I won't. Why do people believe that getting rid of him will be an improvement? It scares me to think he may read some of these comments.
I like Gareth Southgate but believe that it may be time for him to go. I also believe that Steve Gibson knows better than I and that he will do what is best for the club. People mention Eindhoven as a springboard for the club. Eindhoven was an unassailable peak which we may never see again if we say goodbye to Gibbo. We need to stand by him.
I only looked on here to see if he had resigned.
Suicide? For who? Even those fools up the road think there is enough time for a change of manager, even if it is that clown Shearer
I see relegation as a way of clearing out all the dead wood, starting from the manager to most of the first team. Let's start afresh, bring in some new blood, give the academy lads a chance. We might be in the championship, but at least we wont have to watch the likes of Alves, Arca, Huth, Pogatetz, O'Neil etc. They can all go for all I care
we will always be here, and better for it
UTB
Its almost certainly time to say farewell to the Premiership years. Its a real shame that within that period, we had three rookie managers, all of whom are so poor that they will all be unemployable in English football after the end of this season.
Imagine what could have been achieved with a good manager?!!! All that money down the pan and one cup to show for it. Who ever the next manager is, it surely has to be an experienced one.
AV, I agree that it has been clear for some time that the club has been forced to change its business model, and with the way the world has changed over the past 12-18 months few could argue with the need to do so.
The one point this surely raises however, is what on earth posessed SG to put a complete rookie in charge of such an important restructuring operation? Surely only a highly experienced coach (Curbs/Allardyce as a few examples who Boro may have been able to attract) should have been tasked with such an important project.
SG must now admit that this was a huge error on his behalf and begin the search for a new coach who can get us back in the Prem ASAP. I dont care what anyone says, Boro have the infrastructure of a Prem team, average gates of a mid table Prem team, and financial resources comparable to a number of teams in the bottom half of the league. The only non Prem attribute is the manager. You only have to look at Fulham to see what experience can do! And thats no disrespect to Fulham!
I was never in favour of Southgate taking charge although I have a huge amount of time for him, especially after the excellent service he gave us as a player! I only hope that fans can erase the horrendous attempt at management and remember him as a great player for us, after he inevitably leaves the club!
If any football club with ambition had undergone our form, a challenging chairman would have stepped in a long time ago and cleared the lot out. Coaches, trainers and anyone else concerned with first team activities.
Southgate said this after the Spurs game, “A lesson had been learnt”. What happened to it?
Our Captain is already down on record as saying he would be leaving if we go down. What a kick in the teeth that was and he should have been dropped immediately.
We are beat before we even compete Anthony so how the hell can we survive?
Southgate has to go. I have been a season ticket holder most of my life and am considering quitting. How else can we show we want change?
My hairdresser could manage better than Southgate. He has lost the dressing room and it shows with all these mistakes.
AV
Re: Your response to scoredraw at 12.47 today.
Perhaps the Gibbo end of season inquiry - which must have a fans' input and, as much as possible, be made public - can help define what/who is 'baby' and what/who is 'bathwater' (or maybe 'dishwater' is more appropriate).
It might also help define what 'long term hope of competing at this level' means.
It might start with how long, at what level and starting from when?
In case anyone wonders what that might refer to, take a look at the bottom of The Championship and even the top of League One.
I too broadly support the sustainable model, though I think that there are things that could be done to improve it - like a Boro Supporters' Trust for one.
And no model is so perfect that any way of making it perform better and attract investment can afford to be ignored without consideration.
But any model - and especially this one - requires the right people in place in all the key areas - pitch, dugout, technical area, training complex, directors' box and behind the scenes - and making the right decisions.
In this model, in this competitive environment the margins for error and tolerances for risk in both the sport and the economics are terribly slim.
If, as you say, you take the model as a given (and whether you agree with it or not, you don't have a choice) the only issue left is what is done to make it work.
Sad to say, the road from Eindhoven is littered with mistakes, large and larger, that have led to where we are now. And as you say, most, if not all, have been identified on here and elsewhere through pretty well all of that time.
But, in any event, no-one at the club has been listening – or learning (to repeat a very over-used word). The inevitable destiny of those who do neither is simply to keep repeating the same mistakes and getting the same results.
Who was it that said that comedy is tragedy repeated over time? Wise person. Not many Boro fans are going to appreciate the joke at their expense - in both senses.
**AV writes: Again I agree. In order to make the model work need the best possible people in every position in the club, on and off the pitch. Should Boro go down - and no matter how bleak things look that is not yet a certainty - if should be seen as an opportunity for root and branch reform to bring in the personnel geared to the system we want to establish rather than 'square-pegging' the existing staff.
AV,
Been away for a few weeks in the sunny Caribbean. Needed the R&R to take away the depression from being a long serving Boro fan. However, it is worse now than when I went !
Something someone said to me a few months ago is wrankling in the back of the mind, so correct me if I am completely way off track here.
We all know that the club has a major debt of anything up to £93m depending on which reports you believe. Out of that there is a personal debt to SG of circa £69m.
Getting relegated would wipe out a lot of that debt, through parachute payments, the sale of top players and the new Adidas kit sponsor deal. Do you not think (in some bizarre way) that this downturn is somewhat favoured by the Club Hierarchy.
As usual it is us fans that suffer. I came home to find my Season Ticket renewal form. How necky is that ? Apparantly they are doing me a favour. They are having a laugh are they not !
To make it worse we play Hull this coming weekend. If we lose this one, I will not be able to step out the front door - Emigration sounds best !
**AV writes: It is ridiculous to suggest that the club WANT to go down for some bizarre reason. If you are in debt you cut your costs, cut spending and shift your credit card bill to a lower interest rate.... but you do not reduce your income.
With the new prudent cost-cutting strategy they have gambled that they will not go down and they may have got it wrong but they certainly haven't planned it.
Most managers in premier and championship could still get us out of the relegation zone. The fatalism that Gibson is displaying is so depressing. He would be doing Gareth a favour if he sacked him.
As it is he's going to allow him to slowly go under. It reminds me of one those grim reality shows - where you can't believe that that people like that exist. I really feel sorry for Gareth - he's not as poor as he is beginning to look.
The recent 'suicide' comments are painful enough to witness but I will need to switch off when the same deluded people start to rationalise 'the drop'. Downing, Wheater, Pogatetz, Johnson, Oneil, McMahon, Tuncay, Digard, Alves, Aliadiere should not be below Hull, Sunderland, West Ham, Stoke, Newcastle and Wigan.
Stop the flannel about money - there has been enough money made available.
AV Wrote....
"The objective reality is that Boro could NOT continue spending money the way that had been without dire consequences and it had to be reined in. The club have been telling us that quite clearly for years now ("sooner or later Teesside will get the club it can afford") and have made it obvious they are moving towards a sustainable new model, a model I support because it is the only one outside squillionaire ownership that offers any long term hope of competing at this level.
That came with risks. Trimming the squad of experience was a massive gamble. We all knew that and I for one have warned about it, here and in the paper. Support for the strategy does not for a second imply uncritical backing for every decision, far from it. Clearly a lot of mistakes have been made - this season went wrong when Luke Young was sold on the eve of the big kick-off for instance - but we should be wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. "
AV, it is easy to say that you warned about things before, but the fact of the matter is that you, along with many others including Bernie Slaven, put your whole weight behind Southgate stating that he was the right man for the job. Bernie went as far as to say that he backed any decision that the " king of teesside " as he put as he could do no wrong in his eyes.
Now me and you have long since disagreed on the " model " required to save this clubs future and whilst I don't agree with it i can absolutely see your point of view and see how you and others would back such a model.
However, what I have always failed to understand about you, Bernie and 99% of people in here at the time of his appointment was how you could all possibly back Southgate.
Forget money and models for a moment and forget the likes of O'Neill. We could have got any number of much better qualified and suited people for this job with with bags of experience who would have made far, far less mistakes and who would have been better placed to achieve more from the squad we have, and yet we chose a total and utter novice who simply could only ever learn on the job.
Yes, the end result may well have been no better than what Southgate has done but then this would have been a far less likely scenario with someone better in charge.
Many lower league managers would have simply dearly loved a crack at this job and they would have done it for exactly the same money and financial constrictions that Southgate had.
But let's put all of this aside as well under the banner of anyone can make a mistake. I accept this and I really don't want to come across as all seeing and all knowing, as I am not. My thoughts on the keeper situation prove that I can be clueless as well as anyone.
So OK, you and others put your trust in Southgate and you made a mistake. Fine. But why the hell was he given such backing when it was clear that time was running out and that we needed to at least attempt to gain a lift and a honey moon period that a change in manager often brings?
What does this stubborn mentality and backing from the count and from Gibson say about their judgement? I really just cannot understand for the life of me how this utterly inept manager has been allowed to remain in charge.
It is heartbreaking in the extreme to think that this is where we are post Eindhoven and that we are in this position because we just always refuse to employ the right people for the right job. If Gibson loves and believes in Southgate so much then let him put him in charge of Bulkhaul.
Someone has to take the blame for the shambolic decisions that have been made with regards the employment of this manager in the first place and then by keeping him there to the bitter end when it was so, so clear that it was time to admit mistakes a long time ago, hold hands up, and say we took a gamble and it didn't pay off, but we are taking decisive action to put things right and that is why we sacked the manager and brought in " X ".
Had Gibson done that I really don't think anyone would have complained. The fact that this didn't happen is scarily worrying.
TB
AV
The only thing I would take issue with in your **AV writes to mine at 2.49 is that the root and branch review - and the action to follow - should happen whether or not Boro are relegated.
Otherwise, even if by some miracle we stay up (C'Mon Boro!), we're just asking for another dose of the same thing but worse next time round.
**AV writes: Again, I agree.
We have made to many wrong decisions we have not learned the lessons and we are not as good as we think we are.
The debt doesn't matter out on the pitch and it has been talked about at length on here before. Neither is the model to blame for our situation. i myself think it is a very good model but one that needs an experienced manager to manage it and wheel and deal within the boundaries.
The blame lies on the shoulders of Southgate and the players he picks to cross that white line. We have not been good enough, we have not had our arses kicked nor have we moved up a gear when it has really mattered.
There is not one single player on that pitch that gets in the other players faces and breathes confidence. There is no player to take the game by the scruff of the neck and say this is me I will save us.
On Saturday Jones came out to collect a ball and Wheater ducked and he dropped it. If that was me i would have absolutely tore into Wheater and if i was Wheater I would have tore into Jones. instead they looked at each other and walked away.
For crying out loud, show some emotion get up for the occassion by being a man and airing your views to your team mates. Don't just point and applaud, oh well done we got away with that one. ha ha
You dont have to boss people around to be a leader, you can do it be being an example to the others by performing at a level others aspire to and by trying to improve and improve and improve, dragging people with you if need be.
Who is going to step up and be that player? Downing? Wheater? Huth? Tuncay? I'm out after that. I cannot think who else can inspire this sorry demotivated, sad excuse for a football team.
The town will get the football team it deserves looks like football team has lost the passion for the fight this town is known for!
AV,
I take you point on the economics, however, I still believe there is an element of truth.
CB
Personally,i think the players would play better without Southgate there now,as I believe he is the problem. I don't think the players respect him. I think the club would have a better chance of staying up without him. Get rid now!
Oh for a miracle !
Four wins and a draw minimum - Hull, Fulham, Newcastle & West Ham wins and a draw against Man.U, Arsenal or Villa. Well you have to be optimistic !
Managers stand or fall on their buys. GS has spent £21m on forwards in Alves, Mido & Alladiere and none have delivered. Huth was bought for £6m when it was known that he had serious injury problems, completely mad !
We have bleated on about buying James Beattie for almost a year, Stoke got him for £2.5m and hes scored 6 priceless goals for them. Kevin Philips was almost begging to come to us when Sunderland were last relegated,and ended up at Southampton for a paltry £2.5m.
Yes we have a great youth polcy but our recent buys havent delivered which is a poor reflection on our scouting and coaching staff.
Oh for a miracle !
What makes all this even more galling is that we are going down in what has been the worst quality Premiership in years. Stoke and Hull to stay up says it all. You don't need "quality" anymore just 100% commitment and Boro players obviously don't have that.
I'm not even angry just apathetic now which is really worrying as I think there are lots like me. Cardiff last year was the key moment for many of us and if you can pinpoint the moment when love dies that was it for me.
Anyway football itself is dying. Boring and predictable at club, Champion's League and international level. Too much money in the game, players making a fortune by NOT playing (Viduka, Kewell etc etc). Not renewing after 15 years and you know what I don't think I will even miss it.
Bye Boro it was fun while it lasted.
Well that's it we're down, Steve Gibson has hesitated and he/we has lost.
Being relegated is better than staying in the Premier League, it will make more financial sense. We go down, we get the parachute payment, big stars go and the wage bill is cut dramatically. Bigger crowds next season if we have a good campaign.
But surely Southgate has to be shown the door. If he's not there will a pitiful amount of Boro fans refusing to turn up purely in protest at what would be an even more outrageous decision that is has proved to be to put GS up for a flogging. Well done mr Gibson. But hey I dont forget what youve done for the club but with your indecision this season you have almost undone it all but it wont count for nothing at least
Now being the eternal optimist that a football supporter is, IF we win our next two games no matter how unlikely that may seem and Newcastle, Pompey and Sunderland lose their next two then we are right back in it and sets up the game against the Geordies something rotten. Ummmmmmmmm
I forgot to add that we will be able to run the club at a profit in the Championship or at the very least break even. With out academy coupled a little bit of experience in the backbone hopefully we will do rather well. But who will take charge?
To echo @scoredraw, the cause of this relegation should not go down in history as a lack of finance.
We're here because of woeful transfer dealings with the budget we had, compared to our similarly-resourced competition.
Reducing the wage bill is a challenge faced by a number of clubs, as shown in Deliotte's 2006-7 financial review: http://qprreport.blogspot.com/2008/06/deloittes-report-on-clubs-wagesturnover.html
While it's clear that Boro's cost-cutting did lead to too much quality leaving too soon, our biggest problem has been the substandard way that we went about finding replacements.
We've spent around £40m on the likes of Mido, O'Neil, Aliadiere, Alves, Digard, Emnes, Huth and Hoyte, amongst others. All of these were either unproven, injury-prone or struggling at PL level.
Coupled with the departure of the team's backbone - even the lower-paid Cattermole, Morrison etc - it seems to me that relegation was always on the cards at some point.
AV/Richard, what on earth has finances got to do with a lack of motivation, zonal marking, conceding goals in the last 10 minutes all season long, playing Alves when Mido was scoring, playing Alves at any time, playing Arca at any time, playing Wheats at RB, playing Bates in midfield, wing backs at Stoke, selling Cattermole to bring in Digard the new "sick note" and on and on?
In AV's words "if the team that turns out in that game shows the same shapeless, heartless defeatism, the same tactical confusion and the same emotional cowardice that was evident at Bolton then Boro face a humiliating, unequivocal disaster", again I pose the question what part does finance have with regards to shapeless, defeatism, cowardice, confusion?
The squad may not be ideal but having two ex Arsenal slight seconds is not exactly disastrous (judging by the standard set by Arsene's Ressies in the League Cup each year), a young and up and coming England International defender, a German International defender, the Austrian Captain, Englands best left sided midfielder, Turkey's "Lion Heart", an Egyptian international (two if you include Mido) then an experienced Premiership player like GO'N, Emnes (who is he again?) and Jinky, Turnbull who was being touted for Capello only a few months back, £12M to spend on a striker. I'm sorry but the financial constraints argument is one that holds absolutely no water.
As a Manager I have financial constraints in my job, I have lost some good customers through no fault of their own in this recession but I have had to make up for the lost sales or be sacked. I have had to tell employees sorry but their services are no longer required due to cost savings and reduced margins.
We all live in these cruel and difficult times and we all have to survive by using our wits and adapting and changing to suit. Managers have to stand up and motivate, inspire and lead their staff through these tough times. I have to avoid making mistakes, not learn lessons from them, my employers and shareholders expect and demand nothing less!
How come Tony Pulis's squad which is far thinner and weaker on paper do not exhibit financial constraints on the pitch, more to the point they also uplift their fans giving them something to cheer about?
Financial constraints, come off it lads, you're having a laugh!
"Tom said:...So who do we see in the VIP area...Bradley Jones and Julio Arca, having a well-earned party after a good day's work...they seemed to be having the time of their lives behind a velvet rope that nobody bar them...were allowed past...these people are...looking down the barrel of a relegation...this superiority complex and apparent carefree attitude is why there is a greater distance than ever between those of us shovelling cash into the club we love, and those carting it out of an employer they appear utterly indifferent to...".
Tom, well said! If only more of us saw these guys for what they are, the less they might feel obliged to fill our pockets with "you know what" to replace the hard earned cash we continue to give them!
"I now call this inquiry open".........
"We have been rubbish all season"
"I now call this inquiry closed"
Postscript.......you can't coach players who are not good enough to play well.
Instead of all the naming and shaming and scapegoating, can't we keep our eyes on the ball and get the club to DO something instead of their watching supinely on this slide down to the Championship!
For God's sake Gibbo, while there are 21 points to battle for - BRING SOMEONE IN!
It is time for some of hysterical posters on here who are squealing about the prospect of relegation being a great abberation and an insult to the tradition of the club to get a reality check.
Boro have no divine right to be in the Premiership. We are a bottom half side at best and the only inevitable thing about our ten year spell in the top flight is that one day we would be relegated.
The talk about Southgate being a poor manager is nonsense. He is just unlucky that the money has run out so he can't throw cash at problems with abandon like Robbo and McClaren did.
Under Southgate we have finished an average 14th and made the FA Cup quarter-finals every year. In the grand scheme of things that makes him one of Boro's better manager's historically speaking.
And people talk about how fantastic we were before he arrived and how we were European giants (like Barcelona to listen to some forgetful people) but remember just a few months before Eindhoven we were heading for relegation and the manager couldn't appear in public without an armed guard. Remember the season ticket thrower?
The fact is that for much of the last decade (all bar two seasons I think) we have been in or just above the relegation scrap at some point, usually until the last few weeks before we limped clear.
Going down is not a disaster, nor is it unexpected. Following a club like Boro is full of ups and downs. We have had a lot of ups in the last few years, a down is just a natural realignment. Take it like a man, see it as a battle scar. Us oldies have plenty of them and have survived.
I makes me embarrassed to hear so many ungrateful and forgetful Boro 'fans' stick the knife into Gibson with such glee. When I hear 'fans' say get rid because the money has run out I cringe at the lack of moral fibre and common decency.
Gibson has delivered a golden age of cup finals, a new stadium, top name players, a trophy, Europe and an unprecedent high profile and media sympathy. Some post-Juninho bandwagonners have been spoilt by that and have started to beleive that it is the norm for Boro but it isn't.
The norm is seasons fizzling out just short of promotion from the second tier, good players refusing to even consider coming here, decades of mediocrity, early cup exits and a ground that is only a third full.
Even if you think Southgate was a mistake (I do but I have never cried about it) I think Gibbo has got enough right over the years to allow him the the leeway of the odd one wrong without this embarrassing kneejerk Geordie-esque knicker-wetting.
His record shows that he will do what is right for the club and I expect he will do it in the summer, not now just to satisfy the emotional needs of the mob who expect too much and he can never satify anyway. He got it right on McClaren when he resisted the demands to sack him and we ended up in Eindhoven.
For me Steve Gibson has built up enough trust that if he knows something we don't and he decides we need to tighten our belts for a few years then that is good enough for me. Given what he has delivered it should be good enough for any support who remembers what the pre-Gibson years were like.
AV, we've talked on these boards about the difference a good experienced manager would have made to the Boro over the last three years and few now believe (with or without hindsight) that Southgate has disproved that argument.
When you replied to 'Boro supporter living in Spain' about the record of Moyes at Everton being achieved by spending more in the transfer market I also thought the same.
Anyway, I decided to check the transfer record of Everton over the last 3 years and it shows that they spent £47m plus an undisclosed fee for Saha - for the record Arteta was bought for £2m in 2005.
However they've also recovered £33m in transfer sales - which only gives an average spend per season of around £5m - which is not exactly beyond the capability of a club like Boro.
So the financial constaints argument is not as powerful as it first appears - the truth is Boro have been poor in the transfer market for many years and rarely get much of their outlay back when they sell players on.
So the real solution to Boro's problems is in identifying an up-and-coming shrewd manager like Moyes rather than going for the gamble of plucking out an untested novice.
**AV writes: I agree.
Personally,i think the players would play better with Southgate there now,as I believe he is not the problem. I think the players respect him. I think the club would have a better chance of staying up with him. Dont get rid just yet!
**AV writes: Why, I oughta......
I love the rewriting of history where Gareth has been an awful manager for his entire reign. The fact is, he did an excellent job in his first two seasons and it has only begun to unravel now, and only then since November.
The bile and hatred directed towards himself and now Gibson is just astonishing. I really hope these 'fans' who are so disgusted that they are promising to give up their season tickets and never come back don't change their minds.
Let's not forget we still have a very realistic chance of staying up. Unlikely maybe, but it's certainly not 'RIP Boro'. Jesus wept x 100.
For all those defending Southgate having to operate under Gibsons financial cutback, please consider the £13m wasted on Alves, £6m on Mido, £3m Emnes, £5m O'Neil, £2m Aliadiere etc - its HIS team and one we judge him on.
Curbishley kept Charlton in the Prem for years playing good football without having anything like a similar transfer budget, same with Coleman when at Fulham. So while there have been restrictions, bad management allied to the choice of appointment is still the major factor.
Have to say I agree with a lot of comments on here and understand peoples reasons for being frustrated.
I've never been a season-ticket holder (due to financial constraints) but I fully intend to get my hands on one whether we stay up or go down. I await the floods of responses from people who will say 'keep your money in your pocket'
However, I believe the club need our support now more than ever - regardless of what division we are in.
The people who say they will not renew-thats their prerogative. Personally, I think with Boro you have to take the rough with the smooth. We are a small town and have been extremely lucky to have a team in the Prem for a decade!
Only 22 years ago our club was dead and brought back to life by the chairman we have today-without SG we would not even have a football club-certainly not at the level we enjoy today! Even if we go down, I am optimistic that we will back in the Prem soon or later ... C'MON BORO!!!!
P.S. Any chance of a free season ticket for the optimism AV???? Haha
Redcar Red:
"AV/Richard, what on earth has finances got to do with a lack of motivation, zonal marking, conceding goals in the last 10 minutes all season long, playing Alves when Mido was scoring, playing Alves at any time, playing Arca at any time, playing Wheats at RB, playing Bates in midfield, wing backs at Stoke, selling Cattermole to bring in Digard the new "sick note" and on and on?"
To "answer" your question directly Red, depending on what "managerial level" you (choose to?) operate, it's posssible that you know that, at one level - tactical -, not as much, but at another level - strategic - everything.
As a general rule the intrinsic quality you can afford to bring in defines the level at which you can operate and the scope you have for variation around that medial level. It's part of the strategic definition process. What can then be done with what you've got or can get, it is the other, tactical or engagement level.
"Silk purses and sow's ears"? If you employ the best chef, he may be able to conjure a fairly decent meal from it, but it's still unlikely to win gourmet awards.
And yes, there are number of shades of grey in between. But if you don't get the balance of ingredients right because what you can afford in terms of either quality or quantity, the result is enforced compromise.
If you set out to compromise because you have a limited budget, it's a risk game.
In Boro's (Gibson's) case, the risk has proved too great. Gareth Southgate was part of the "ingredient list" risk and as such I don't think its entirely fair that he should shoulder all the blame. Although it's understadable that he is the focus of the fans' ire. But that's usually always the case.
It's the manager's fault all the time! Go for the easy target - even if it's not the real root cause. We have to have blood. So let's have the manager's! Good, we've satisfied our revenge lust, so now we can move on to getting it wrong again - with another manager who'll come up short - again. And so the same perpetual cycle of appointemt/sacking/appointment/sacking goes on - without recognition or acknowledgement of what is going on behind the scenes. That's the Newcastle way! As stated in a previous post, it would be a shame if it became the Boro way also!
Nobody is claiming that there haven't been managerial mistakes, or what we might generously be called judgement errors! But many of those tactical changes were forced due to other factors such as availability, attitude, and perceptions altering daily in training - detailed information that none of we supporters are fully availed of.
But reduced funds availability is the heart of what kicked it off and of what's gone wrong. It's the prime driver for everything that's transpired. You can trace back each and every one of your examples of "failings" to either the quality or quantity of ingredients in the mix!
And there's little point in stating that others have done better. Maybe so. But that was the strategic risk that was taken when the plans were implemented.
As AV has already pointed out. Failure wasn't planned. Increased risk of failure was acknowledged, but the judgement calls on the balance have been proved to be incorrect. We tried to scrape by and failed.
An element of this was probably because we underestimated the capabilities of others. For example, who would have expected Hull to rocket up the league and secure the points haul that they did in the first half of the season?
After several seasons of having a whipping boy or two in the league to donate a few points to others and thus occupy their stable positions at the foot of the table, this season we've had a league that has been MORE competitive (flatter) at the lower end (from 7th position downwards) (that's not to say "BETTER") than in many seasons just past. This, at the same time as Boro has trimmed our capability level has worked against us.
Or, in other words, the risk has proved to be greater than anticipated before the season started, but long after the strategy had been implemented. That's it at the strategic level - which defines how you're going to go about things. We got it wrong.
As a CONSEQUENCE of getting the strategic level decisions wrong, we've been unable to compensate enough at the tactical level to cover that basic position.
Because more than Southgate have been involved at the strategic level - the club is run on high level consensus lines - it's unfair to lay the blame on him.
He can only work with what he's got - and yes, that DOES include his own managerial experience, as well as the players around him. It doesn't make him an intrinsically crap manager, any more than it makes Steve Gibson a crap chairman. It means "we" got it wrong collectively and strategically.
But perhaps we had little or no choice if Steve Gibson's businesses were to remain solvent. Which brings us right back to my contention of retrictions on money being the the root cause!
The fact that Gareth Southgate hasn't been supplemented or replaced, points to an acceptance and acknowledgement by Steve Gibson of complicit responsibility.
At last, I read a poster who accepts that we will be relegated sooner or later. It's likely to be this season, if not it will probably be in the next season or two.
The important thing is how the club respond to relegation. Hopefully, there is a contingency plan for this occurance? Even some of the finge players are likely to remain in the Premiership with other clubs.
The supporters have become extremely complacent about the Premier League. I can guarantee if we are out of the top league for a few years and then get promotion again the ground will be sold out every week, just as Stoke, West Brom and the promoted teams next season. These clubs will have rows of empty seats if they remain in the Premiership for 10 years because they will become also rans.
The league is basically a done deal as far as the top four are concerned every season, and that's being optimistic. It might change with the investment in Manchester City or a similar sugar daddy attaching themselves to a 'sleeping giant'.
Unfortunately, we do not fall into that category.
I will always remain loyal to Steve Gibson for the success we've had down the years. I for one wouldn't change some of the experiences I've seen at first hand at the Riverside and around the country watching Boro. I hope he continues to remain loyal to the club, although it's a given that he will act in it's best interests.
Spent 37 years supporting the Boro. Stood in the 'boys end' at the Anglo- Scottish Cup Final and saw the away game at Bournemouth when we were in the old third division, good seasons and bad.
Thus, I believe I can see when a manager needs to be sacked for the good of the club we all love. To sack GS now would be an act of mercy all round. However, reads like we can't afford to.
Its all very well absolving Soutgate from blame by citing the financioal constraints placed upon him - but when finances are tight it is all the more vital that what money is spent is spent wisely.
£12m on Alves is £12m too much; £6m on Mido smacked of desperation at the time.
They probaby have a combined worth of £3-4m now.
The money spent on O'Neil looks ludicrous when compared to that received for Morrison. The money spent on Emnes looks ludicrous when you consider what contribution he has been allowed to make - has he ever started a Premiership game? Even when in the bench we have used three other subs ahead of him. Surely he more than anyone should have gone out on loan just for acclimatization.
The fee received for Cattermole was considered a bargain but how many games would he actually have been a leading contender for a starting place in this season -that suggests he was never ever surplus to requirements which makes the fee received look a pittance. We have been forced to transform a defender Bates into that role.
Digard has not done badly but how many games has he been unavailable for either through injury or suspension.
Aliadiere will score goals regularly - if we played Arsenal or Wigan 38 games a season. £2m for half a dozen goals over 2 seasons - is that value? Even £2m looks expensive for that level of return.
Only Tuncay has been a "success" - but there again he hasnt made double figures either year.
The model fails if the limited funds are wasted. If the money spent has been wasted then we have to rely on our academy to plug the gaps. But to do that we need far better coaches to bring players from Youth team football through to Premiership levels. The model fails again if we continue to bring young players no further than Championship / League1 /League 2 levels.
Then of course the last stages of developing young players is to play them alongside the experienced pros - coaching in situ during games. But we disposed of all of those didnt we.
I think that Boro need to win BOTH matches at home against Hull and Fulham. Then we'll need a few points every now and then as I can see 38 points might be enough.
I filled up the two wins in the next maches and a draw against Man Utd and Arsenal (untypical Boro) - and then we stayed up. Try the calculator yourself at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/predictor/default.stm
I know this sounds useless to some fans (I was despressed, too, after the Bolton match) but the real 'must-win' match is Hull and - then Fulham. As GS admitted, too.
Let's support the team right untill the end. The end is not here (just yet).
Up the Boro!
I think Steve Gibson is great for the Boro and has created a really good football club. I think Gareth Southgate could make a good manager but at this moment to help the club and save Gareth some intervention is needed.
Richard/Redcar Red
I think that part of the issue has been that Gate hasn't been involved - or at least not as anything other than a recipient - in the MFC strategy. I don't know at what point he was made aware of it, before he was appointed or more recently.
In the post Eindhoven choice making you'd have to argue that appointing Gate - with all that that meant - was part of Gibbo's MFC strategy. Gate's clearly bright enough to know that too.
I'm sure that like many of us he sees the rationale for the strategy and accepts that there is no alternative - either because he/we fully buy(s) into Gibbo's economic rationale and model or because he/we know(s) that at MFC it's one man one vote and Gibbo's that man and you take that or leave it!
Many folks (including me) would argue that taking it has produced us Boro's Golden Era. At least until now.
The choice Gate then has is to walk or make the most of it with his Boro strategy set within the MFC strategy. He's chosen to buy in and stay. That makes him bought into the Gibbo strategy, whatever his views. Gate's a man of integrity so his public face - even within the club and the squad will be and has been the MFC face.
All that's left then is what he does with what he's got within the limits that have been set. I think that the limits that have been set have not been that ungenerous - especially when compared with other similarly placed clubs.
But I also think that some limits have played out against Gate. I have no evidence to back this up but it is my strong suspicion that the Luke Young transfer and its timing was something that Gate was told about after the deal was sealed, for example. It was so clearly a financial decision, not a footballing one. And it was a huge mistake.
But it also set a tone - not just in how Boro have been seen by other clubs and prospective players but also by players already in the squad.
I think that that tone damaged Gate's authority, undermined the credibility of his vision for the season and has affected the atmosphere in the squad all season in ways which are still being played out now with the various declared and undeclared refuseniks. There was certainly an impact in the debacle of the January window.
But, as Redcar Red (and others) pointed out, quite a lot of what Gate's done within the limits set for him has been purely to do with 'on the field' (an area that I'm sure Gibbo and The Count don't interfere with) and discretionary and he's made mistakes in exercising that discretion.
In fact quite a lot of mistakes - and he's kept on repeating them in the face of the evidence and ignoring the advice of the many if not the few, despite all the talk about learning.
For those mistakes, he's responsible. With what he's had at his disposal he should have produced better than what his captain recently described as 'a relegation battle every year'.
And here I'm talking realistic aspirations - not about the foamies (and some players) fume fuelled hallucinations about Europe via the Prem.
Then you can add in the coaches and players who have also not used their discretion effectively either and have performed below the level that we, Gate and Gibbo have a right to expect.
For some players, I think that you could even make an argument that they have used their discretion to pull in quite a different way than the team required or indeed to withdraw their contribution.
So, in my view, the failures are collective but play out at different levels and pretty well everyone has their fingerprints on this crash scene, as is inevitable.
That's why pretty well every inquiry report ever published says up front 'collective failures' before it goes on to the individual responsibilities - because that's right.
But it's the nature of leadership and the roles they fill that the brunt of the responsibility falls to Gibbo and Gate at their different levels.
John Powls:
Good summary John.
I accept that.
"Tees Exile said:
"For me Steve Gibson has built up enough trust that if he knows something we don't and he decides we need to tighten our belts for a few years then that is good enough for me. Given what he has delivered it should be good enough for any support who remembers what the pre-Gibson years were like".
I remember what the "pre-Gibson years" were like and to be quite truthful they were ultimately more exciting and memorable than anything the "Revolution" has brought us!