A Dip Into The Dustbin Of History
THREE years ago today I was in Bucharest - and it was brilliant. One of the best trips and one of the best displays. A young Boro team - Morrison and Bates both played - put in a real shift in the away leg of the UEFA Cup semi-final first leg and Mark Schwarzer was absolutely outstanding. Whatever happened to him?
As a bit of light relief from the current unremitting grind of treading water and clawing for the lifelline dangled so temptingly close, here's a flash-back to that previous dreamed existance: a match report, and a colour piece from the paper .
It barely seems possible now that we so recently carved a swathe through Europe, more than holding our own against some of the biggest names in the game and having a bloody good time doing it. It is sad that such a wonderful adventure seems to have left such little lasting impression on the club. It is like the whole thing never happened. But it did, and I was there.
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Anthony Vickers
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Great memories. I wasn't lucky enough to be in Bucharest, but was able to enjoy all the home matches during an incredible European adventure including being at the final in Eindhoven(despite the result).However, my greatest memory remains that day in Cardiff; was it really five years ago?
All this reminiscing has made me think about what might have been.
Although never keen on Steve Mac, my dislike of the man has more to do with the personality and blind ambition in which he used the Boro purely as a stepping stone and as we all know he took a step too far and crashed as England head coach. I know this has all been covered millions of times but History may show ( I hope not) that Macs reign was our golden period, never to be repeated.
My real point is; what would have happened had he not got the England job ie would he have remained with the Boro and if this had been the case, would SG have still changed the financial policy and allowed Mac to continue improving the squad?
Just a thought, but a change from the endless discussions about what has to done to stay up.
Finally and yet again, I noted in the previous blog that someone referred to the size of the crowd, considering Middlesbrough has a population of only about 140,000. Rubbish! As someone who until recently lived in Redcar, I was for years a Boro season ticket holder, like many more from the outskirts.
As such and in the hope of putting this spurious claim to bed, I surfed the official government figures from what I believe is the most recent census,2001/2002 I think. Here goes, to the nearest thosand: Boro 135,000; Stockton 178,000; Redcar and east Cleveland 139,000. By my reckoning, a grand total of 452,000. Not a massive population, but enough to support a premiership team.
Nd really finally AV thanks to you and the bloggers for some interesting and occasionally great stuff. As someone who no longer lives in the area, its the one way I am able to remain close to whats going on with our great club.( Oh and the Gazette web pages of course)
Ah, Bucharest, watch out for the packs of wild dogs on the streets we were warned. I still have a photo of me petting one of the aforementioned wild beasts. Great memories (and my memory is rubbish by the way).
I recall getting out of our taxi near the ground, turning a corner and walking straight onto a well timed right hook from one of the locals. My favourite cap went flying and has probably now been eaten by one of them rabid canines!
It was easier for me to get to the away ties back then. Because of where I have to live and work I missed the two classic home games against Basel and Bucharest, but did get back up for other less memorable ties such as against the Bulgarians Linda Lovelace at home. Is that typical me or typical boro I wonder?
**AV writes: Linda Lovelace? Wasn't it Lena Lovich?
davidt
I remember posting during 'season ticket gate' that I didnt think Mac would be leaving during the season. I also posted that it didnt matter if he stayed or left, the squad still needed rebuilding to move out all the high wage, short shelf-life players.
I also took the view that Gibbo would be looking at potential season ticket sales and would not enjoy the prospect of renewals with Mac in charge.
As with Robbo, Mac was not the cause of third world debt and global warning. The fact he joined England and we got £1m spondoolies was a bonus.
Thinking back to Basle, Steaua and Eindhoven, they were special moments BUT.
The two come backs were not through master tactical strategies. They were a follow on from poor gameplans that handed over total control to the other teams through and ultra cautious approach. 3-0 down is not in any coaching manual as a preferred outcome.
We got back into those games by throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition, it was not through a cunning Rommel style strategy of lulling the opposition into a false sense of security.
Sevilla were too good to allow us to get back into it.
Enjoy the memories but also remember an inability to garner points in the league and some truly desperate performances.
Mac's reign brought a trophy and some great memories but it was coming to an end. We were in a downward cycle and would have been embarking on a rebuilding exercise if he had stayed or left.
What really stands out about our two Euro campaigns is that Boro are arguably the only side from England in the last decade to have actually had a go at trying to win it. We learned in our first season that it was there for the taking - we might have done it then had we not faced a decent sporting Lisbon side with a bare bones team through injury.
Only Spurs under the former Seville manager genuinely had a go like we did.
Basle and Steaua might have seemed tough but in truth they are in 3rd world leagues compared to the Premiership. English clubs should dominate that just like they do the Champions League now.
Teams battle hard over the season supposedly for a chance at Europe then turn out 2nd strings once they do get there. What was the point?
Look at Villa this season - if anything they looked capable of going all the way then treated their fans with contempt by turning out a junior team. They should be docked any prize money they have earned in the competition so far and banned for a few years like a boxer would be if he put up no fight.
AV any thoughts on the 2-tier Premiership proposal being widely touted at present? Could be a lifeline for Boro so I expect Gibbo to support it.
**AV writes: It is a non-starter. UEFA won't sanction it, the Scottish FA will take legal action to block their only bums on seats sides leaving, the Old Firm teams won't sacrifice their free-ticket to the Champions League and the secure mid-ranking Prem sides won't sanction a dilution of the TV pot even if the broadcasters are interested in a second string dead rubbers on Afriday night.
A great day indeed. I remember identifying you in the checkout queue with the words "aren't you Antony Vickers. Are you sure?.".(ah fame!) I think you were on a day return,my mate and me were living it up on an overnight stay.
Jiffy is spot on about us wanting to win it when other teams (Bolton) throw it away,why enter? You can be sure of one thing, Gibbo will do his best to bring those days back. Sporting glory indeed. Keep the faith. ERIMUS
"We have to treat every remaining game as winnable, because we have the players who can deliver.”
What? Like they have in every other winnable game? Words come cheap Gareth, you need some help with this self delusion problem that you suffer from.
Oh What memories.
Those adrenaline filled nights of European Football. Those Cup runs and Cup Finals. Those exciting days and nights that we thought would go on forever. Each day there seemed to be another new high with fantastic signings, unbelievable victories and always good news coming from the Club. I thank Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb and all concerned for those terrific times (a million thanks.)
So they say that after the Lord Mayors parade ...... so its off back to the lower leagues were we trudged around grounds in my youth unless a miracle happens.
But I for one don't think we should be in this position.(NO WAY) Gareth Southgate took over a good enough squad, He had a boatload of young talent coming through the Youth squad and a Chairman who has backed him to the hilt.
Now I know you will say oh here he goes again Southgate bashing but hey the facts don't lie. I am livid with what Southgate has done to our squad.
I did not agree with all I saw from McClaren especially his treatment of little Juninho. I did not agree with all I saw from Robson. But I never complained because overall they got things right.
NO the last time I got involved, wrote to the Gazette and the Club or booed on the terraces or called anyone for that matter was because of Charley Amer. I now feel equally cheated by Gareth Southgate.
Like then I feel so angry yet so helpless. There is not a week goes by without more crap. Last week he played Jones for the second half with his fingers strapped together whilst Turnbull our best goalkeeper was left on the bench (no wonder the kid wants to leave). He does not sign McMahon or Bates despite there terrific contribution to our fight for survival.
Sorry but when I see ex players voted player of the season at there new clubs - three so far to my knowledge this season - or our ex youth players getting international honors when they should be playing for us, or kids like Johnson, Emnes,or Rhys Jones who are having their talent stifled then yes it gets to me.
We could have been better than this. We should have been better than this.
Bucharest was quality. We heard all the stories about medieval shanty towns and packs of wild dogs but in the end it was just a bit shabby, a bit run down and the people were a bit scruffy and talked a strange language... a bit like Sunderland LOL.
The ground was like Clairville. Schwarzer was quality that night. He had been in Rome as well. People talk about Maccarone getting us to the final because of the goal but for me it was Arnie that deserved the praise for some brilliant dislays.
AV, I was speaking to you (and the season ticket thrower) in MacDonalds before the coaches left for the ground when we was all trying to get shot of the hundreds of millions of those plastic notes.
**AV writes: What is this? Where's Wally?
Glad to hear the positive memories of our ex keeper after the many years of good, loyal service he gave us. I've just read the report that he was abused and booed by some of the idiots that, unfortunately, support every club.
Good luck to him when he plays in the premiership next season. I hope we can scramble the points to stay with him!
I said to my son recently that this season has been like a year long game against Steaua, battered, outplayed for most of the first half, looking like we were going out of the competition with a whimper, and then came the second half. So who is going to pop up at The Bolyen and score that last minute winner to keep us in the PL?
Bucharest? Get real. The most exciting games next season will be visits to Hull and Mugglecastle.
M. Sebastian T:
Please be kind enough to explain which league we might be playing Hull and Newcastle in next season? Have the PL/FA decided four teams go down? are you tipping a miraculous recovery by WBA? Do you think all three teams will escape? And if so who will replace them in the bottom three (or is it four)?
GREAT days... even better memories. Yup. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.
What happened to them??? Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh.
We didn't build on them, we didn't invest in people and we didn't make the step up either on the field or behind the scenes.
For all I hated about Mr Negativity with that daft smile and idiotic choice of words and all the square pegs in round holes business, he was far, far better than what we have now and he achieved far, far more.
Southgate said quite explicity " JUDGE ME THIS SEASON " well I for one say goodbye and good riddance. Why is this utterly incapable man still here??? Will he walk??? Will he hell, not with a cast iron five year deal in his back pocket.
Depressing isn't the word and these trips down memory lane make it all the more depressing AV. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Let's just keep the faith a bit longer though and hope we can get something out of the next two games. Here's praying for 4 points!
TB
Boro suporter living in Spain said:
"Sorry but when I see ex players voted player of the season at there new clubs - three so far to my knowledge this season - or our ex youth players getting international honors when they should be playing for us, or kids like Johnson, Emnes,or Rhys Jones who are having their talent stifled then yes it gets to me.
We could have been better than this. We should have been better than this."
I share these sentiments 100%.
Never mind Bucharest, AV, what about our last relegation season? Boro have all the hallmarks about them of 1997, setting themselves up for a kind-of heroic but ultimately doomed attempt to squeeze out of the relegation zone.
The 3-3 at Man Utd in that season summarised everything good and bad about us - it was a brilliant game but the brutal truth was the damage was done much earlier, with all those poor perfomances, lethargic away days. Roll on 2009 and it's exactly the same.
As much as I respect Steve Gibson I will never understand why he did not act much more quickly to replace Gareth last summer when there were already signs he was out of his depth. Perhaps our 8-1 against Citeh will become the defenition of a pyrrhic victory?
I have long been said (and had money on) Boro attaining 35 points and it's looking pretty solid at the moment. It's just so predictable that at Arsenal Boro will go all out to defend, try and nick one on the break and then kick it anywhere and hope.
Frankly we don't deserve to stay up and if relegation is what it takes to bring some much needed change then bring it on. There are worse leagues to play in than the Championship and the fans will be better off.
Funnily enough, whilst watching the multi-millionaires of Manchester stumble against that german team up the road and rejoicing in the fact that thousands of monobrowic mancs wouldn't be decending on Bremen, I suddenly realised what a massive (as Mac would say) achievement getting to the UEFA cup final was.
Since we got their (and long before) many richer clubs have tried and failed - OK we had some luck but so do all teams on a cup run.
Those unbelievable games in the QF and SF will live long in the memory - though I'm always amazed how little they seem to be remembered by the media when covering european games.
BTW, I see Mac's team are on the verge of CL qualification in 2nd place in the Dutch League - Is this the same league that Alves scored hundreds of goals?
Perhaps Gareth should learn the lesson that hopping on ferry and travelling across the North Sea can seriously boost your professional standing.
The team that night....
Schwarzer... gone
Parnaby ... gone
Bates
Ugo ... gone
Queudrue... gone
Morrison... gone
Boateng... gone
Rochemback.... gone
Downing
JFH.... gone
Yakubu... gone
If you want to go forward as a club you need to replace players who leave with better ones. For me only Parnaby has definitely been replaced by better.
Ugo - Huth? Maybe if he could stay fit but overall no way. O'Neill - Morrison? Not a lot in it. Alves - Yak? Don't make me laugh.
Its a shame that Rockemback's best game for Boro was in his final game. Yet with the benefit of hindsight, more so this season, he makes Arca look like a Blue Square Premier player. It fills be with total dread that a 'fully fit Arca' could ever feature again this season.
As for Gary O'Neil I have little sympathy. I wish we all had the luxury of working where we want to. Sometimes we have to follow the work and make tough decisions. And accept them, not one week. His family are hardly on the moon for godsake.
I remember being drunk as a Mackem for the semi watching it on the telly iin the Warbler in Bahrain, and telling everyone not to worry about being so many goals down that we were bound to win like last time - and then we did!!! I don't remember getting home that night. Anyhow got the DVD to keep me company next season.
Roy Keane signs a two-year deal to become manager of Championship side Ipswich Town. Perhaps he knows already that he cannot be a longer success there than two years. If one manages with fear nowadays that can last only a year or two.
We have had our problems at Boro but I bet that "nice" managerial style of GS will be more succesfull.
My prediction is that we still have GS when Keane resigns again. And I even think that Boro are in the Premiership then (hopefully without religation in the meantime).
Up the Boro!
If you think the Boro fans are hurting, have a squizz at Lee Ryder's Blogg on the Tyne in the Newcastle Chronic. Their grief makes our woes seem almost pleasurable. I suspect they may have more to lose, particularly bravado.
But it does remind one that swithching managers like suits doesn't guarantee success. Oh, and most NU bloggers think we won't get anything there.
John, Aus
"We can keep up fine Emirates record - Downing"
Is this the same Downing that thought we were capable of qualifying for Europe this season? I wish this nugget would shut his trap and do his talking on the pitch instead of in the papers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1084543/Downing-Middlesbrough-capable-winning-place-Europe.html
"If you think the Boro fans are hurting, have a squizz at Lee Ryder's Blogg on the Tyne in the Newcastle Chronic. "
Why, I am not obsessed by them like you seem to be.
Ah happy memories... UEFA Cup... Millenium stadium... I thought i had died and gone to heaven. Where did it all go wrong? Dont all reply at once... answers on a large sheet of paper to Mr S. Gibson, Middlesbrough FC
Paul ( Bell) - I'm not (obsessed with them), just wanted to understand my father-in-laws' dedication to the NU cause,especially as he supplies me the Foxtel tapes.
Got to have an open mind.
John Aus
Just read Downings comments on Sky Sports....
I feel very very angry and disappointed at a very mediocre footballer, please read it and tell me youre not boiling over the top. He sounds like he feels sorry for our sad effort and just simply cant wait to escape
Good luck Stewie, I'm serious, he will be in a mid range/lower league prem team in 18 months, a "big" team will buy him, he will fail, he will need to move on... he will be at a "Wigan" in 18 months, and swallow his pride and try to get back to boro within 3 years. Believe me and check this thread in 3 years.
Even bad midfielders in shocking uk teams manage ONE goal a season! Boro lads who believe their own hype in Teesside will never amount to anything. Sorry but if he had any real guts and esteem, he would stay and fight no matter what.
**AV writes: The quotes seem very familiar. I wonder if DJ Stewie is just doing a re-mix from his stuff in January?