A Chink Of Daylight?
PHEW! The boss had finally dubbed the weekly six pointer a "must win match" and Boro duly delivered with a spirited if sometimes scrappy display in a crucial 3-1 win over a tame Tigers side that now look prime candidates for the drop.
Boro played with energy, purpose and a bit of steel at the back and were roared on by a galvanised crowd to a deserved victory. Yes, there were jittery moments: Brad Jones spilled a few balls in the box to cause chaos, David Wheater had to nod one of the line and there was the mandatory slow motion late retreat to the 18 yard line inviting pressure - but then, this is Boro and that comes as part of the package.
What we also got this time was a few breaks - a dodgy corner that led to a goal, some generous refereeing, that 'player scoring against former club' routine working in our favour for a change - and some decent finishing plus more than two goals for the first time this season. Now we need to push on and complete a great escape. Come on!
More later.
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Anthony Vickers
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As half of my Cul-de-Sac were in the away end yesterday, I can now walk out of my front door with my head held high.
Despite the degrogatory cat calls directed to Marlon King, it has to be said, he was up for it and did the business for us.
Whether we can continue to get out of the mire remains to be seen, but the Club's continued ploy of getting as many people through the turnstiles with the Season ticket deal seems to be working with aplomb.
I hope there is a repeat crowd and similar atmosphere next week against Fulham.
You never know.......
You are right AV,scrappy and spirited more than an outright impressive performance, although we will take anything right now, however, what we did have was no Hoyte (dont ask me to tackle anyone), Pogi (I can kick other players,but cant pass wind),) O'Neil (sob,sob,give me the ball all the time,even though I dont really do anything with it) which gives me some hope of a fighting chance.
One thing that does really concern me and has for a few games now,and that is David Wheater seems to either lose concentration or have a lack of confidence during periods of games. On a number of occasions he's getting pulled out of position. Maybe Riggott should be given some games in order to help Wheater relax
Excellent. We'll stay up, I have no doubt. Alves and King looked like the partnership we've been crying out for all season. The crowd was superb, especially as the teams came out, the players couldn't fail to be inspired by it. Another atmosphere and performance like that next week and we'll win.
We needed that , but why oh why did we not attack Blackburn & Wigan the same way? That could have brought the extra 4 points .
Now another must win home game before it really gets tough........
Was not the best I have seen but definitly a bit of spirit and at last going for the win with all the strikers on show. Crowd were brilliant and prooved again how important they are not just for the run in but all the time.
Now for Fulham. Cant afford two game runs anymore must make them all count. Well done Boro if we dont make it i at least enjoyed this game and hopefully the next few.
The penny has dropped with Southgate, lay two strikers,Tuncay behind them and presto, three goals for the first time this season.
We have reached that stage, whereby we have no choice but to attack and hope for the breaks to come, keep a steady defence, notwithstanding Jones, and we can make it. I am bringing the whole family up for the Fulham match, so they have to win!
I have to say that the overiding feeling at the end of this game is huge relief!
As you have stated in the article above, isn't it a refreshing change to get a slice of luck for a change? However, we have to make our own luck and I feel the positive selection helped with confidence from the team to the supporters.
I was of the opinion that we had to win three out of three, starting at Bolton, but we still have a chance. Fulham is another 'must win' which could see us out of the bottom three - but then we play Arsenal & ManU. Who know what could happen in those games, particularly if we win back to back games. That said, we have to assume we will get nothing.
I've always maintained that it doesn't matter where we are as long as we end the season with enough points. A win next week will give us an average of a point a game. If we keep that average up to the end of the season will 38 points be enough?
Great result, shame Pompey or Newcastle couldnt lose to squeeze it even more.
I reinput the bbc predictor scores for the remainder of the season and we're still going down in 18th place on 36 points with Newcastle and WBA.
Fulhams win at Man City is worrying for next week. I thought they played quite well in the 2nd half. But at least our result has brought teams back to us.
At last a 'must win' game that we actually tried to win!!
What happend then against Blackburn/WBA/Wigan/Pompey/sunderland????? Yesterday i was scratching my head when i saw the line up.. King/Alves/Tuncay/Ali...thats 4 forwards. So why oh why did we play 5 CBs against Blackburn??
Well enough of my moaning....well done lads a display that showed we have pride...if we do go down then at least go down with a fight.
Next up Fulham not easy by any means as they looked good today beating City 1-3(we should have and could have if not for Alves missing 3 good chances).
Same again next week boys...although maybe bring back O'Neil for one of the forwards as Fulham are a much better side than Hull.
Up the Boro!!!!!
Despite what's at stake I'm really enjoying this season.
It's great to have the season still alive with just 6 games to play. That applies at the top as well as the bottom, although sadly looks like the top 4 are once again consolidated. For once it looks like we are going to have a season that goes right to the wire. I think we can still do it, but even if we don't it's been much more fun as a supporter.
PeterboroAngel:
"If we keep that average up to the end of the season will 38 points be enough?"
Regretably, life ain't that simple! As I'm sure you're aware, the dynamics at the bottom of the table impact hugely on what will be required for survival.
Before this weekends matches,it could be argued that Boro would have required 14 points to be safe, i.e. a total of 41 points on the basis of being 1 point better than the then currently placed 17th position team - Sunderland, who projected to 40 points over 38 matches, before getting beat by Man Utd.
That required Boro to earn 14 points from their remaining 7 matches. That is 2 points per match or as a minimum, 4 wins and 2 draws.!
However, after this weekend, you can argue on the same basis that Boro will require 39 points to be safe, i.e 9 points from their remaining 6 matches - still requiring to finish above the current 17th positioned club (still Sunderland but now projecting 38 points after 38 matches). [Note that we cannot rely in any way on goal difference, beacuse are Boro currently second worst in the Premier League on that measure.]
That's a minimum of 2 wins and three draws.
Anything less and we're stuffed!......... unless the goal-posts change again and the teams immediately above us start to lose big time, which can only help our situation - or start to win, which won't help at all!
The variable extent to which this can happen, even with only 6 matches to run is large.
The only sensible strategy is to take matters into our own hands, assume personal responsibility for our own fate and seek maximum points return from every match we have to play. 6 Cup Finals!
If we look historically, in the last 5 seasons clubs would have survived if they'd accrued 34,34,35,39,and 37 points respectively, each of these being 1 point above the 18th positioned club.
However, this season's league is "shaped differently", with an unusually "flat" profile from 7th position downwards. It makes it very, very tight and extremely tough to call.
But with Boro being 2nd bottom and with a crap goal difference, we've got it all to do!
Let's hear it for Gareth, not once has he hidden from the aftermatch interviews. No matter what he is a class act. No sending out the "Phelan" or the "Sammy Lee". Whatever the "right stuff" is. Gareth Southgate has it in abundance.
Thankful for the 3 points, but it still may be too little too late.
I'm not sure that Hull are "prime" candidates for the drop as you put it AV, they still have some work to do in order to undermine both us and the Geordies to end up in a relegation spot.
If any team seem to be looking dodgy it's our red & white striped neighbours, which for me makes it all the more sickening that it may come down to "pick any two from three" from us, the Mackems, and the Geordies as to who will accompany WBA into the Championship next season.
But it's not over yet. We are still looking for points from unexpected places in order to survive or even take it to the last day, but another three against Fulham has to be won first.
Richard
Before Xmas I was suggesting it would need over a point a game to survive and I have no reason to change my view.
A look back at last season showed Derby with 11 points, Fulham 24 and Bolton 26 at the corresponding stage of the season. Safety was Brum with 30.
At the end of the season both Fulham and Bolton escaped, Fulham with 36 points sending Reading down on goal difference.
The matches this weekend will have a big say with
Man City v West Brom
Pompey v Bolton
Stoke v Bburn
Sunland v Hull
Spurs v Toon
Boro v Fulham
Three points from the Fulham match could put us right in the pack. After that it is points from unexpected sources and that would be the same for many around us.
A journo on Sunday Supplement suggested Toon v Boro was going to be a defining moment. He may well prove to be correct.
There are lessons from Fulham and Bolton last season. If you keep giving it a go then anything is possible. That has been our biggest gripe, play like Saturday over the rest of the season and we will all be happier, may not be enough but we will done all we can in the remaining six matches.
I've never done this predictor thing as I think it's a waste of time. Who knows how many points will keep us up this season? For example, it's impossible to predict Boro winning 2 games in 19, then to explain how those 2 wins were against Villa away and Liverpool at home? There are bound to be more 'freak' results before the season ends.
I'm glad Fulham won yesterday and looked so good. It will stop any possible complacency from the team or fans. I also thing it was down to Man City being very poor and saving themselves for their UEFA game.
I would also like to say well done to Southgate. Anyone who doubts how much it means to him only needs to watch his reaction to the 3rd goal on Saturday.
Still hoarse from shouting and cheering on Saturday. It wasn't pretty at times but the fight, spirit and determination was there in abundance. Why it wasn't there for the rest of the season is irrelevant, its the next few games that count and the belief has to be carried forward. Finally square pegs in square holes and it worked.
Moment for me was when Tuncay scored the opener I was screaming and punching the air in euphoria and suddenly made eye contact with him as he was running straight at a group of us but instead of stopping at the edge of the pitch he carried on running, around the advertising boards, pushed a hapless steward flying and into the arms of the fans. It galvanised the crowd and the players from that moment.
Onto the factual enormity of the task and its going to take the same fighting spirit carried forward to the season end to give us any chance of survival but an interesting look at the form table sees us in 13th with the Mackems and Takems below us along with Hull and WBA. Pompey and Blackburn are equal with us on points so if we can maintain our form we may have a slim chance.
If we can tweak it unexpectedly a bit more (hopefully confidence might inspire greater things) bearing in mind Villa are second bottom of the form table and Manure are not firing on all cylinders (2 points or maybe even 3 from the two games) we just might see another Easter Sunday at the Boleyn ground in a few weeks time!
A result that we badly needed, however, nobody is mentioning the missed chances by Alves. Once again the first goal came from a one on one with the keeper and he missed yet again, then two even better chances and he messed up again. This guy is a liabilty rather than an asset.
At least we drew the other teams around us to one point closer and the Mackems only twopoints ahead of us.
Fulham played well against a very poor Man City team, but we know how they play so go at them and especially pepper Schwatzer with crosses, he should once again he is poor in the air.
ALL THE BEST LADS FOR NEXT WEEK
As several have alluded to, Fulham are dark horses and what they may lack in 'style' they often compensate with energy and never-lie-down attitude. And they have guys who can hit the ball sweetly, on target, unlike Alves who generally blasts away without any aim. Two open play goals in the Prem tells the story. We can't bank on an easy 3 points I'm afraid.
But ever hopeful!
John Aus
Great team selection Gareth , I loved the celebration. More of the same for six matches in a row will make it very interesting.
As people have already said - why did we not have a more attacking line up on in other matches. Alves is gonna save us , I can feel it.
What about Boro taking the opportunity of the Easter holidays to do what Shearer had The Skunks do and hold a free open training session at The Riverside later this week? Maybe the players would like to 'give up their day off' again.
AV - is your detailed consideration of the 'State of the Nation' interviews going to be available electronically at some point?
**AV writes: Oh yes, but it will have to wait for now.
I disagree about Alves, It was because he chased down that opportunity that Tuncay was able to grab the first goal.
Regardless of how we had a few nervous moments, I thought we played well. Still hope for us, a long way to go and even though six games isn't much for when you doing alright, for us, its an eternity. One bad result and it could be over. Still keeping the faith though!
C'mon Boro!
I'll also defend Alves. If we stay up we need a goalscoring hero.
I've a sneaky feeling...............!
I hope Southgate and the other back room experts understand that you can not win matches by going out to keep clean sheets week after week. This must be the most attacking team Boro have put out this season, and presto we start to score goals.
Is it too late? Maybe not, if Southgate can keep his head and nerve, and continue to pick attacking teams for the remainder of the matches even the games against the top teams as that is the only way against them, hit them with all you have and forget about trying to keep them scoreless.
Not a brilliant performance but three goals is a good start to our fight for survival.
Oh Dear,
Just when I was getting used to being relegated they look like they can pull the rabbit out of the hat. Now I am really going to be stressed out for the rest of the season. Why couldn't they have just lost to a late goal so we could get on with our lives. TYPICAL BORO
Great game great attitude great goals great fight back from the equaliser and thank god we hung on.
(Stay) Up the Boro
I agree that Alves could score a few goals. At least I hope so.
But I had to disagree that we should have played with this attacking formation more often. Against better teams away from home - a 4-1 defeat most often (like at Bolton). And no confidence booster for the young lads we have in the team.
I hope the Boro play 2-2-2, at least. We have six matches and the minimum must be 2 wins, 2 draws and (maximum) 2 defeats. That is still a lot to ask as we still play Arsenal and ManU! I hope 38 points is enough...
Up the Boro!
Like everyone else I am euphoric about the win and isn't it a coincidence that it came when we had real target man centre forward up front to partner Alves.
As many people have said on here Alves is no good with his back to goal and both he and Tuncay need to be running on to flick downs. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think we ever saw Mido and Alves play together from the start and now this is King and Alves from the start.
For gods sake Gareth, please same again against Fulham.
UP THE BORO.
Alves winner against Utd to hand Liverpool the title, then a goal against Newcastle to keep us up and send them down, followed by a statue outside the stadium and the key to the town.
Thet're just teasing us now aren't they......?
Seriously, I disagree with those who criticise Alves for his 'miss' on Saturday, he put in a good shot which over-stretched the keeper giving Tuncay a straight forward goal.
For certain if we are to stay up one of King/Tuncay/Alves will need to score a few in the remaining games and it seems GS has realised that the most likely way for that to happen is for them to play together, good decision!
However to have any chance of survival we need to beat Fulham.
....and if GS is concerned that Tuncay in central midfield will leave us exposed in the middle then drop Aliadiere play Tuncay behind the front two with three in midfield. (will Digard be fit? I hope so, Bates, Digard and Downing would be the way to go.)
I watched Fulham/Man C game and Fulham were very professional in their approach, physical, compact, kept it simple, the big centre back was strong (also a danger at corner kicks),but they do play the long ball quite a lot for Zamoro and Johnson to run onto in areas that pull defenders out of position.
I would be careful of a care free attacking approach, they have a very experienced midfield who would exploit that but they are also a team that is getting old and if we hussle them and force them to work every inch of the field for 90 mins we can win the game . It means the middle four and the two up top must get after them high up the field
I still think we will go down. But it made my trip back to london more enjoyable. I will put my Z4 coupe on it that we will go down. My hairdresser thinks we will stay up. We shall see. Every game should be treated as a cup final
**AV writes: PP or not PP? That is the question.
Keenog- I remember when we played Pompy at Fratton Park and Mido played up front with Alves and we were all over them , one nil up and looking for the second even though they had man of the match Diarra and Defoe too [ before xmas].
It took the ref to swing the match - Digard was not allowed back on the pitch after taking a knock and waiting to get back on, then Mido one IN THE FACE off crouchy and we went down to nine men as the ref played on. A head or facial injury usually means the ref stops play but not in our case!
Needless to say they scored, I think it was Defoe, and their crowd finally woke up and pushed them on to Victory. That game seems a long time ago now and anyone who was there (about 1000 of us yelling) would see that we played well and didn't deserve defeat. However looking back now that game seems to be a tipping point for the way things turned out.
Mido was on fire that match by the way. But my half eaten chocky easter egg that was accidentally melted a bit in the sun has turned into a bit of a mini Alves bronze.
Its obviously a goal machine omen!
I believe !
A quick thought on tickets for the Fulham match. The incentive for season ticket holders to take friends and family is very good. Just wonder if they can do something for Boro Pride card holders such as two for £30 or something similar.
we really have to watch Booby Z and danny Murphy for Fulham, everything goes through them.
Seeing the Chel v Lpool Euro match, which ESPN described as a glowing advert for "English football" highlighted why Boro and most others can only remotely aspire to these tv mega set pieces. Of the 36 guys on the team sheets, only 3 are British, in fact English, two Chel and Carragher. The buy-in cost for the other 33 must cover the price of the 16 teams outside the top four. "Nuff said.
John, Aus
John Gibson
The problem for British football is shown by the fact that Chelsea were missing Terry and Cole, Liverpool missing Gerrard and the replacements were not British.
Arsenal are just as bad. ManU are the best of a bad bunch.
That is Platini's gripe with the Premier League but he is afflicted with the same eye defects as Arsene Wenger. A quick glance at the Inter team who played ManU in Milan showed only one European player in their team (a Swede) with all the rest coming from South America, their three subs who came on were also South American.
Oddly, whilst our league is uncompetitive it is a beacon compared to much of Europe. In France, Lyon have won the title every year since Vic started shaving.
"'Ignorant' of boroland said:
we really have to watch Booby Z and danny Murphy for Fulham,[...]."
Was that a deliberate typo, Ignorant, or a Freudian slip? ;)
I quite dislike a lot of aspects of the modern day game of football, in particular I hate the little Hitlers who masquerade around football stadiums with an air of deluded self importance. I am of course referring to match day "Stewards".
However watching Tuncay scoring against Hull and shoving an aforementioned little Hitler in the chest and out of his way gave me the best laugh of the weekend. Its a pity the steward never got dumped on his 'arris.
It was an excellent result against Hull, the only other premiership team on a worse run than Boro - anyway, well done but I'll reserve my judgement until after the weekend as all will be lost without victory against Fulham (unless we're expecting two 'typical Boro' wins over Arsenal and Man Utd).
At least King finally gave the impression that he's up for it - let's hope it's not just an ex-club thing.
Apparently Steve Bruce may be interested in doing some kind of swap deal between King and Mido. He said he would be interested in extending Mido's stay at Wigan if the striker continues to impress during his loan spell.
He also told the Wigan Evening Post: "By the time Mido gets 100 per cent fit the season will be over, but he's certainly getting fitter."
Ah, Bruce has finally discovered the secret of Mido's fitness regime - though I'm still not convinced King is anything but a stop gap striker.
Well, Im not happy. OK the win was great, the performance spirited, the crowd larger than normal and my brother in law £40 better off - make that £80 after the Fulham game.
I paid up front for my season ticket, have done since the riverside opened,and now all these part timers who refuse to pay full price cant wait to come and support the lads in their hour of need. And so what have the powers that be done? Sent all the renewals out in April for the loyal fans to pay early, regardless of what league we'll be playing in next season.
Put it this way if I hadn't bothered to get my season ticket for this season,i could have gone to every game and saved money in the process, beggars belief. Well I''ll tell you what, I will not be renewing and I urge everyone to do the same.
I will probably go to every game, its not as if theres no spare seats,and if we do go down i am sure there will be a few cheap games against the lesser crowd pullers. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. We could do with a few people at the boro who have a bit of business nous.
London based BORO,
Sorry bout the boob, I meant Bobby Zamora of course.
The lad is under rated, doesnt score as many as he did back in his Brighton and Hove Albion days but works his socks off for the team, and thats what Fulham are a proper team.
Im taking about balance and we have been disjointed all season until Tuncay went behind the front two. If Bates [ who is having a blinder ] has to cover the back four to release Tunny then so be it!
I will try not to drop any more boobs otherwise I will have someones eye out.
Up the Boro.
Lets pack the Riverside.
Deka
I understand your frustration, but they can give tickets away for free if a full stadium mean we might stay up. I'm sure the majority feel the same and even you if you really think about it?
Ian,
Hear hear! I think that's why I've become a tad indifferent this season...As much as I want us to stay up, will anything change next season? Assuming we survive, we have another season of struggle ahead.
My dad's from Scotland, and I used to tease him about how boring the Scottish league was (is), but the English league is not that much better. The top teams are not really English at all. I used to root for the English sides in the Champions League, but not anymore. It's a case of one All-Star XI versus another...
There are some success stories. I like Villa, who have a strong English contingent, but the last few weeks have shown how far they have to go to match the top four. Don't get me started on Man City.
Fulham, I suppose are a success story of the season, but I would be willing to bet that they will NOT qualify for Europe. Still, they'll get to be a part of the rich man's league for another season.
I know that I'm a hypocrite because I have enjoyed the flamboyance of the English league in the past decade or so. The difference between now and twenty or thirty years ago is that success begets more success...Champions league teams get the money and they become self-fulfilling prophecies...occaisonally, there's a blip (thanks Leeds United), but it has all become way too predictable.
Oh well, rant over. I genuinely hope that we beat Fulham and pull of the greatest escape since Michael Caine and Pele took on Nazi soldiers.
As I have always said on this website everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, the rose coloured glasses for Alves? Come on. "He will get the goals to keep us up." "I can feel the goals coming." "He put the shot in" ... the manager was saying this four months ago, even a year ago. Well done to the writer who stated 2 goals all season in open play.
Just read the article by John Hickton. if Alves had one ounce of his work rate and goal scoring record the goals would come 'BUT HE HAS NOT. Let's just hope he does not have any one on ones with Schwarzer. If he does then we had better have players there ready to follow up. I would love the guy to prove me wrong, but I have been saying this all season.
COME ON BORO - we are on the telly in Kazakhstan this weekend
Deka-whilst I understand your slight irritation that some are getting into the ground for £ 10 for two weeks running if you do the maths you are still well in pocket by having a season ticket if you go to all home games.
The match ticket minimum price is £25 when we play most opposition and £29 when we play the likes of Man Utd.On my North Stand season ticket it works out at £20-50p per match. If you work it out I'm still way better off than paying on a match to match basis even taking into account these two cheap offers. Next Year it will be £19-50 or £16 per match if we are in the Championship if you renew early.
I totally agree with the club in this instance.They are rightly desperate to get as much backing from the fans in two home games which we need to win if we are to have any chance of getting out of trouble.
I think you are deluding yourself if you think they will allow a situation to arise where you would be better off financially by NOT getting a season ticket over the course of a whole season.
If we can win this week it will give us a fighting chance of survival.
David Connor -
I always wear my rose tinted specs. when watching the Boro it's too painful otherwise.
As for Alves, there is no question he has been a big disapointment this season, whether that is because he has buckled under the weight of expectation or because GS has played a formation which does not suit him.
However, credit where it is due, last Saturday his shot stretched the keeper to the point where he could only palm it away, giving Tuncay the chance to score.
Alves is not a Dong Gook or even a Maccarone, he has had a shed load of chances this season, which suggests he is good enough, his failure to score I think is down to his lack of confidence.
What he does need to do is work harder for the team though.
It is getting to that part of the season where every match has some significance.
Should Fulham's win at Citeh be viewed with foreboding at the challenge to come or relief as they are now safe and may take the foot off the gas?
Is the Arsenal v Chelsea of no importance or should be cheering for a draw to add to Arsenals fixture pile up and another chance of some silverware. Maybe they will take their eye off the premiership ball?
Do we want Liverpool to have a bad result against Arsenal next week and ManU to roger Pompey the following night? ManU may be be less driven against us if they are more comfortable in the league.
Very tricky, I think we should just concentrate on getting three points from Fulham.
There again, if ManU draw their cup semi.....
Aah John Hickton!
With all the opinions about Alves flying around this season, I've been thinking about strikers a bit recently and wondering whether our expectations aren't a bit unrealistic.
Good strikers don't grow on trees. Outside of the top 4, not many teams have managed to put together a consistent goal scorer. No doubt people will name a whole host of people (James Beattie is the latest "why didn't we..." lament), but the reality is we're not the only club that have spent big on a striker who isn't delivering (a very similar example would be Jo at Man City/Everton), and there are a host of clubs who have strikers who have the occasional purple patch and then go back to sleep. Let's face it, we've been talking about Bobby (or Booby) Zamora on this blog.
And then I look back into our history. Mine with the Boro dates back to Hickton, and whilst he remains my all time favourite player and hero, when I take off my rose coloured glasses I remember he was no world beater. I suspect his goal scoring record is not bad but I'd be surprised if it was stand out. He never looked likely to get anywhere near the England team and that was in an era when England was struggling for a regular goal scorer (have there been any other types of era?).
As for his partner, David Mills, I remember thinking that selling him to WBA for £500K was the best deal ever, possibly only recently beaten by allowing the Magpies to pay Viduka's wages for 2 seasons whilst he played 19 games (or more recently Fulham selling the crock Bullard to Hull for £5m!).
And since then? A trip down memory lane...
- Alan Foggon
- Phil Boersma
- Peter Davenport
- Alan Wilkinson
- Archie Stephens
- Billy Ashcroft (another personal favourite, but probably just for the hair)
- Bosko Jankovic
There's a decade or so I can't recall. In more recent times there have been some bigger names but ones who delivered only spasmodically. Yakubu, Viduka, Boksic, Fuchs. I'm bound to have forgotten a few, but I guess my point is that in nearly 40 years of supporting Boro, I can think of only two consistent goal scoring strikers. Ravanelli (one season only) and Bernie Slaven. It's not as easy as some posters seem to think finding the elusive goal nabber.
On the occasions I've seen Alves I think he is better than most we have had over the years and I still think he may come good. I have no more time for the current "Alves is rubbish and is to blame for our season" brigade than I did for the capitalised "BUY ALVES NOW!!!" scream I remember from one blog not very many months ago.
I'll just keep supporting him, as I did Hickton, even when he had one of his average or poor games. I still reckon he's a better bet than most of what I've seen for 40 years. I'd like to see us sticking with him.
Reading one or two posts about the two for £20 ticket offer made me consider my own attitude. It's a scheme that I've considered worthy of support in the past and I've had no reason to revise my opinion.
In the present climate and with the club situation as it is, as a season ticket holder, I'm pleased that the club has recognised that fact and offered me the opportunity to invite up to 10 additional friends along at a much-reduced price.
I would only take exception to such a move if, having paid in advance for my season ticket, the club had made such an offer to the general public without giving priority to season-ticket holders and other "loyalty groups".
As an extension of this, provided appropriate safeguards were in place to avoid visiting supporters contravening the segregation provisions, I'd have no objection either, to the club making a matchday offer at those prices to the general public, if, after having made the offer to season ticket holders, Cup Ticket Scheme members and Boro Pride members well in advance, some remained unsold.
I think its appropriate for the club to acknowledge the loyalty of the aforementioned groups, but after they've had first refusal opportunity, I can't see why it wouldn't be in everyone's interests to open the offer up and try to maximise the attendance.
A full Riverside makes for a much better atmosphere - especially in special match circumstances - and therefore, (hopefully) a better matchday experience for all.
Generally, I think the club has got the balance about right in terms of the specific matches the offer has been made available for and the loyalty groups acknowledged.
**AV writes: For me the outcry from ST holders over ticket offers just serves to remind us that the relationship between club and fan is seen primarily as financially one. Hence non ST being given any incentive is seen as undermining it, as somehow ripping off those who paid up front.
In fact the relationship should transcend cash. Yes, being a ST should bring some financial benefit as a mechanism to pay in advance but it should also bring with it other benefits that the match to match punters do not have, it should be a symbol of the unity between team and supporters.
I would like to see it tied to a genuine membership scheme with voting rights to some kind of body that has a real imput into the club; with ballots for say 20 tickets each match to the hospitality areas or to attend a training session; or maybe signed birthday cards being sent out to kids as well as discounts in the club shop, loyalty points towards priority for tickets etc.
There should be a reason to buy into the idea of the club that does not involve sitting down with a calculator to work out whether you are out of pocket if you miss more than one match.
Nice comment Nigel. I am the same, the BORO buys for sometime now have been very poor to say the least. I was hoping for much better from Alves this season after his displays against Chelsea (away) and Man U last season.
But then on reflection he missed a host of chances against Chelsea and at the time I thought he was unlucky, but not anymore. He has missed too many goals this season, goals which would not have put us in the situation we are in now... a clear five against Man City away.
What I really cant understand is how anyone can have any faith in him getting us goals to keep us up. I stand to be corrected and hopefully he proves me wrong. Thanks for the response Nigel
AV
I agree with your response to Richard April 16 12:14PM
A proper Boro supporters' trust would do just what you suggest but MFC are implacably opposed to such a thing.
Although a trust is an independent body and the club could not prevent one being formed, all the evidence is that when they are established in dispute they don't work nearly as well to the mutual benefit of club and fans as they could.
Neil Bausor has said that he is willing to look at what aspects of the benefits of a trust MFC could establish. Some progress has been made but there is a long way still to go.
My sense is that the consultation process that made a start with a variety of 'button votes' on the MFC websites and was supposed to develop has somewhat stalled.
AV, It's hard to imagine supporters being allowed any meaningful voting rights when the club is owned by one man.
Even if buying a season ticket somehow gave you the option to buy shares (that were only permitted to be sold back to the club) they still wouldn't add up to any significant financial slice of the club - especially since gate receipts only accounts for around 15% of club income.
Also since Steve Gibson has currently loaned almost £70m to MFC it would mean 20,000 season ticket holders would have to fork out about £3,500 each just to equal that.
Therefore, I can't see Steve Gibson risking his investment by allowing supporters to have any significant voting rights on the running of the club - I suspect at best they will be allowed to participate in nothing more than glorified opinion polls.
John
The quick fix, button votes were precisely that. An opportunity to give a message of trying to get closer to the fans, to become more inclusive.
The problem we have now come up against is the appearance that nothing is happening. There may well be long term strategies being developed but we see no evidence that things are progressing. There are no visual clues or tangible changes to show that we are moving closer together.
Most of us still identify with Boro not MFC. Whilst we hold a great debt of gratitude to Gibbo and Lamb, a benign dictator is still a dictator, his Boro supporting henchman still a henchman even though they have the clubs, fans and areas interests at heart.
The idea of a supporters trust is probably an anathema to them (especially if I can spell it - AV, a spell chck is needed on this blog!).
Oh dear! If this isn't an open invitation to Boro to give a visiting team a leg-up in breaking some long-standing duck (as opposed to helping a player to end a goal drought [think Crouch] or handing at least a point, if not outright victory, to the opposition on a plate by failing to score themselves [think West Brom, Everton, Blackburn, the Mackems, the Mugs...]), I don't know what is (from the Beeb site):
"Fulham have not beaten Middlesbrough away from home at the highest level for 60 years, since their 1-2 triumph on 7 September 1949."
* I see Lawro's tipping us to win 2-1, as he did last week. He got the right result, but the wrong score, then. Here's hoping he can get it right & wrong again on Saturday...
Yes I know it was the 2nd division but I doubt we will ever have anyone who can hit the net regularly like BC did. And they wern't all on a plate, he would chase the ball to the bye line and screw it around the keeper from impossible angles. I saw this many times from the Boy's End. The nearest equivalent today I think is Torres.
But Clough struggled to get a fair go for England. When he did get in it was alongside Greaves and Charlton who did their best to ignore him and after two games he was dumped. His Boro foil was Peacock who was ok but nowhere near as lethal. But I'd take both of them in the team now.
John, Aus
Interesting ideas on the issue of a supporters "trust". Personally, I don't buy into that type of arrangement, as these things are never really more than a facade of involvement. Unless of course we're talking about Spain, which is different.
However, England has a long history of local businessmen as sole owner and beneficiaries. Sometimes you strike it lucky (Gibson), other times not (the Darlo chairman springs to mind). Essentially though, we've got a history of people who own a club, and that's the way it is.
The club could do more though. I think ballots are a good idea. I would do a ballot at each match offering 100 free tickets to season ticket holders, 1 per person. Literally everyone I know swaps round season tickets to give to a mate who wants to watch a specific team etc.
Or maybe they could work out a scheme where every season ticket holder is guaranteed say 2 free extra tickets a season, but the club chooses the games at random - so you don't have a queue saving themselves for the Arsenal game etc.
I think opening up training is good too, again on a basis of one session per season ticket holder. And if that season ticket holder wants to bring along 2-3 family members, let them come along for £1 a go - you'd get some extra money in. Give out a few tickets from each visit for people to sit in the players canteen at lunch - and you'll soon have people getting involved.
ST holders are the life and soul of any club. Some of them are embittered, cynical souls who remember when you used to be able to drink a stout and have a chip butty on the terraces at Ayresome, and consider all modern footballers "nancys". But, they're still there, in their seats. Give them something back and you'd be on your way to turning the club into a real community club.
**AV writes: I accept there would be resistance from the club to any form of political power being handed to a supporters body whatever form it took but when it comes to making the season ticket something that goes beyond just a way of paying for games there must be dozens of viable, cost effective measures that would excite and engage fans and make them want to be part of it.
AV
I agree that it is highly unlikely that any political power would be handed over.
The club can be more inclusive, as I stated in my reply to John they may well be busy in the background but hiding their lights under a bushell.
There is much they have done through the community iniatives but there is always more that could be done. Boro Pride was a step in the right direction.
I think the current relegation battle is the focus for many of us including the club. As I live some distance away it is harder to keep a handle on what is taking place, I must admit I dont take a lot of notice of the club site and depend on the Gazette for info.
Of course, there are some Supporters' Trusts that actually own their clubs in England. Many more own shares - some of which come with seats on Boards.
If you check out the Supporters Direct website you may be surprised at some of the bigger clubs that have trusts and where they have a seat at the 'tables of power', if not the voting rights that come with shares.
Where the clubs are plc and the shares are traded then the Trust can buy shares like anyone else can. A Trust can raise the cash to buy a shareholding that's more significant than would be available to yer average fan.
Some of the examples above - including some of the bigger ones - have exactly the same single owner set up as Boro do. It can be done.
**AV writes: The symbolism of a token 'red share' for an organised broad-based fans' group can be incredible. What a way to galvanise the club and make a membership scheme more than just another a marketing operation.