Black Night At White Hart Lane
CRASH! Well there goes the goal difference. Gutted. Taken apart by Droopy's boys. Good job they were tired and demotivated after Wembley.
After being teased by the Gods of Football last night when they opened the door a tad and let us gaze on the fabled fastness of mid-table security - West Brom, Portsmouth and Sunderland all lost and suddenly we were in a position where victory and another performance of the spirit shown against Liverpool could take us up as high as 13th - we were cruelly slapped down again as it was slammed ominously in our faces.
I never travelled (let off for good behaviour) which is a Godsend. It would have been a nightmare prising quotes from the players after that and it is a long journey home. I struggled to even follow the game. The usual internet streaming sites were having problems or devoting all their bandwidth to more glamorous games so I had to watch on a new outlet, Iraqigoals. It stuttered and was slow, disjointed, disappointing and failed to deliver consistently which you may think entirely appropriate.
In short we got battered. The defence was a disorganised mess in a costly, distracted first 20 minutes in which Spurs were given the luxury of time and space to set the pace and the agenda. By the time Boro had turned up the game was long gone. With Spurs happy to sit back on the commanding lead Boro actually put together some good moves going forward and Tuncay had two ruled out for marginal offsides and then hit the post late on, but in truth they never really looked likely to claw it back and as they pressed forward t gaps were left at the back which Spurs - with Robbie Keane on fire - exploited. They could have had six or seven quite easily.
It was a disastrous night for Boro, not least because we were all buzzing after two wins in a row. And it was a disaster not just because we were taken apart by Jason Gavin's best mate but also the results elsewhere. Stoke beat Bolton 2-0 to move three points clear; Blackburn scraped a point in a goalless draw against Everton (although they do appear to have rattled Tim Cahill in the process); Jeez, even bloody Hull won with a spawny late goal at Fulham to end their tail-spin. We had inched within three points and I had factored them in as taking up one of the three hot spots.
Leaking four goals put us back behind Stoke and Hull in that department and that could be worth a point to them come the end not to mention the boost to morale they may get going into what could prove a Titanic series of six-point showdowns for not just Boro but for all the teams down at the bottom.
The only saving grace was that rudderless Newcastle lost and now look very vulnerable. And you could argue that at least the table remains tight and that with Pompey, Hull and Stoke coming up in the next few weeks, it is still very much in our hands. All is not lost. Had the results been inverted and we lost to Liverpool but beaten Spurs it may have even been seen as a decent return on the week and sent us bubbling into the FA Cup quarter-final clash at Everton on Sunday. As it is the dizzy needle on the Boro terrace panicometer has gone bouncing into the red again.
Putting the "distraction" of Everton aside (if the chance to go to Wembley can be dismissed so glibly) the next five Premier League games will decide our fate. We can't budget for 'typical Boro' shock wins over Manchester United or Arsenal and we can't leave it until late trips to Newcastle and West Ham.
There are 15 points to play for as we take on Portsmouth (H), Stoke (A), Bolton (A), Hull (H) and then Fulham (H). We must win at least three of those to have any chance of staying up and preferabye get at least draws in the others too. Realistically we can't afford to lose to Pompey, Stoke and Hull or they gap above us will suddenly leave us revving up for a do or die final leap like Evel Knievel over Snake Canyon.
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Anthony Vickers
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OMG - what a complete disaster. I expected us to lose - a dose of reality coming back to hit us hard in typical Boro fashion - but I didn't expect a total walloping.
I don't care if Sky said we played well, that Tuncay had 2 offside goals disallowed and hit the post - the sad and embarrassing reality is we got stuffed by a team which was allegedly knackered and depressed after their Wembley loss. Perhaps a good job we didn't meet them when they were fresh, then?
Perhaps the worst aspect is the news that Huth was responsible for a couple of goals and had to be subbed at half-time. What is going on - this is our best defender who has been magnificent of late.
So it's back to square one - with Hull and Spurs winning and pulling clear and Stoke opening up a 3 point gap, we're left with it all to do again after a fantastic week when it looked as if we'd turned the corner.
We still have some winnable games - Pompey, Stoke, Bolton, Hull, Fulham, Newcastle - but we will have to win 4 of them and all of those sides will be fighting like hell. I'm not giving up hope - Liverpool showed just what we are capable of, but we have now made it much more difficult for ourselves.
At least Sunday is about the Cup and the pressure's off. We have to put tonight's defeat out of our minds and put in a good performance, so that come the Pompey game the psychology is right and the players believe.
If we drop back into defensive mode in the League, we're stuffed and we can say goodbye to the Prem. And maybe, after tonight, we can see an end to the ridiculous ra-ra statements coming from the players and management about how we've turned the corner, how we're ready for Spurs, how Europe is just a couple of wins away, blah, blah. How hollow they all now sound!
Please just stop saying that we believe we're going to win and get on with preparing for the game and performing on the pitch. Save the over-the-top positivism until we've actually beaten somebody again.
Spurs fan here. I think you're being a bit harsh on your team. Sure, the defending was a bit keystone cops. But Boro were always a threat going forward. You could easily have scored five or six in addition to the two that were ruled out for being fractionally offside.
Huth is over rated.
We should bought Keane.
"Positivism" is allowed after we win one game you're saying Clive?
I have just gotten back from London (I currently live in Hull) and it was a big blow.
Yes, we were taken apart in the 1st half and although we played much better in the second, we didnt score again, Tuncay somehow was offside on a free kick (you would think he could have kept onside on a set piece) but the game was over in the 13th minute and 28 seconds as the annoucer said.
I wont blame Southgate, the players let him and us down tonight, they were good enough to beat Liverpool but tonight they didnt show up, Gareth was so mad he actually got off his seat and waved his arms about, we were shocked lol.
Our defending was terrible, Im glad Pogatetz moved into the middle in the second half because Lennon tore him apart in the first, he backed off and backed off every time and it gave lennon easy chances to cross. Taylor atleast made things a bit more solid (never thought id say that about Taylor) in the 2nd half.
The game was gone early on and hats off to everyone at the game, we really got behind the team and decided to have fun since the game was gone, taking off our shirts after the fourth went in and never stopped singing.
Bit disappointed only Gary O'Neil and Brad Jones felt the need to come over and thank us for our great suppport even though we were slaughtered 4-0. People like Tuncay, King etc have to realise that we spent money and time going all the way down there tonight, costing me £70 all together and cost my mates much more, whereas the players get paid to play and dont seem to appreciate that fact.
The stewards were a bit of a pain though, everytime we stood up they demanded we sat back down even on corners and dangerous free-kicks but after the fourth went in they lightened up and sang playful songs at them which they enjoyed, got to love banter with those cockney fellas.
Seriously though, you pay a lot for a ticket and you cant even stand up all game, its not like we were blocking anyones view, we were on the back row. Dont get me wrong I was fuming in the stadium at half time but for the cost of going down there I wasnt going to sit there depressed for the 2nd half, the game was gone, you cant dwell on it.
Im overall mad at the performance considering the journey but I have calmed down now and you have to look on the bright side of life in games like that, 10 games left, a lot of football still to play, the home games with Pompey, Hull and Fulham along with the away games with Stoke and Bolton will decide our future. Those are games where we have to turn up at.
G'day mates,
Me sheilas and I sat up at 5am watching the game live and I have to say I think every report I have read today (all with pictures mind) must have been watching a different bloody game.
We made three mistakes in the first half and they scored from all there. Their mistakes resulted in a great save from Alves twin brother and Tuncay just missing the rebound; Ali heading wide when it was easier to score and a terrible offside call against Tuncay. As the replay showed he was level at worst, 1-1 and we'd probably have belted f them for the raminder of the game.
Fair dinkum, I still can't believe we lost that 4-0. Still it's better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick and it WAS aganist Spurs and they really ARE too good to go down. 'Struth the only real harm is to the goal difference - but that will make us have to win games now and not rely on odd points so we are probably better off than had we been beaten 1-0. There is no doubt we play better when we try to win games, and I'd take a win and a loss from every two games until the end of the season.
My observations/questions for you AV are..
1. If Huth was unfit why did he start? It was clear from the warm up he wasn't moving freely - it's not like we're short of cover in that position!! - Was this the case?
2. When will GS realise Arca is a liability? AV, what's your opinion of our Argentinian "playmaker?"
Ian Gill (who I'd love to go for a beer or six with when I'm next over there) has been saying he's poor for ages and Walker has proved he's up to it. With Bates proving he's even got some creativity behind that solid tackle let's give those two a run.
I lost count the number of times last night good attacking positions broke down or were slowed down to the point of losing impact when the Landcrab got the ball - If being slow, with a poor first touch and being a liability are essential to the future of MFC then I'll wear number 38 for the rest of the season myself - an' I'll do it for half his wage and even pay my own airfare ( so long as you can have a beer in hand during play!)
3. The impact sub is not called King. He cost us two goals v Liverpool for being slow then offside and last night he did nothing. I agree Ali was having his off night for the month BUT USE EMNES. At least give him a chance since we all know he can finish. AV do you know why we paid so much for him and then GS refuses to play him in the Premier League?
4. Our Turk is back - give him the ball and let others play off him - by no co-incidence Stewy looks the part again as does GON.(no answer needed here we can all see the bleedin obvioous!)
5. AV - is Hoyte injured (please god no?) or was it tactical? If injured good move - get them off, but then why start the Berlin Wall?
6. The real "make or break" games are agains the Barcodes, Bolton, Pompey, Hull, Stoke and Fulham. Win five and we'll stay up. Three wins and three draws will be enough too. But we must not lose any of them. We are good enough to stay up but not "Too Good to Go Down" - Keep the faith
And finally Square holes need square pegs - don't give up here GS. You have the right team and last Wednesday we were good value. On Saturday we were lucky in the first half hour and ended up winning. Last night we were unlucky in the first half hour and we lost. For 55 of the remaining 60 mins we were the better team in both games and other than the goals we were equal in the first 30 in all other facets (yes I know the scoreboard is all that matters)
Somehwere in a parrallel universe all 'Straylian Boro fans are astonished that they can be belted 4-0 by Liverpool on Saturday then go down to London and win 2-0 v Spurs. But we're all looking forward to an extra days rest before we get up in the middle of the night again to watch a cup quarter final which I think is nailed on to be 1-0 though who to I have no bloody idea.
So I'll finish by saying she'll be right mate oh and remembering where my real roots are...
C'mon Boro
Let the recriminations begin as to why Boro are struggling for their Premiership status....
Make no mistake the reason as we all know is goals scored, or should I say goals not scored. Alves must take a major part of the blame for not living up to his reputation. Did he have a reputation on reflection? I ask who watched ho him play over a period of time? Or did these so called experts rely on the video evidence which in hindsight was a brilliant piece of marketing by Alves:s team?
How many top clubs were there who put in a counter bid for his signature against the Boro bid? NONE, why? Because the top teams have top scouts who know their business. Then we come to the number of times we have Alves as our first choice in the hope that he would eventually come good and live up to his video reputation. Mido was a better alternative and no wonder he lost heart after being repeatedly left on the bench after scoring important goals.
The difference in the Boro and Spurs was the quality they had in the goal scoring department, this has been obvious all season long. Boro play some exciting football but without the finishing touch we are doomed to go down. What can we do for the remaining matches?. Prey like hell that Marlon King can get us some goals, because even if we play Alves again I can not see him scoring, he must be one of the laziest footballer ever to wear a Boro shirt, there is no doubting his ability to hit a very hard drive but the ability to get it past a quality keeper eludes him.
Disaster.
Again, I wouldn't have been surprised to lose, but 4-0! As you say AV, the goal difference factor will be of major importance come the end of the season, and ours is sunk.
I've gone through several different responses to this inevitable thread, and I still feel a bit shocked. GS needs to realise that the cup is not the priority now. As we've proved tonight, our lads can't be trusted to give a good show too many times in a row, so sod the cup. I hope that we don't see any drivel from GS about how it can boost our season - let's face it, it's a distraction, simple as that.
Sunday, change things round give Huth, Jones, Downing, Ali and Tuncay a rest and just bung on whoever to make up a first 11. And tell them under no circumstances to come back in at the end with the scores level, we seriously don't need a replay.
GS said previously that we will need "points from unexpected sources", and then we got three against Liverpool. Well, Gareth, learn this; we can beat Man Utd or Arsenal if we like, but unless we get positive results in these games:
Portsmouth (H)
Stoke (A)
Hull (H)
Newcastle (A)
Then the points against Man Utd and Arsenal would be largely irrelevant. It is deadly serious now, we need to beat Portsmouth, a defeat would be a catastrophe, and we need to beat Stoke and Hull too, because if we don't we're relying on favours to drag them back into the mix.
The problem is, we all know "typical Boro". Not only do we have a soft spot for promoted teams, frequently giving them easy wins (Hull and West Brom this season), we also simply don't turn up when it matters.
I feel very disheartened. Thankfully I'm going on holiday Saturday morning, and I fully intend on completely avoiding football for 2 weeks. When I come back we might be as as down. Or, we might be in an FA semi and on a two match winning run in the league.
I know what my money is on.
I am just watching my video recording of the Spurs match and the commentator made a very telling statement that I admit I missed on the original match. He said Boro are the lowest scoring team in all four divisions of the Football League. How many of the fans realised this fact?
I did not know about this stat but it backs up my previous assessment of why the Boro are in such dire straits at present. How can we go three quarters of the season without getting it right in front of goal? To blame Alves for all our trials and tribulations is simplistic, it goes far deeper than the form of one player.
The total staff at the Boro has to take some of the blame especially he people who okayed the original transfer of Alves and then allowing him to play week in week out in the forlorn hope that he would prove our salvation. I have always backed Southgate as the man for the job, but I am having serious reservations now.
Arca and Bates exposed last night for what they are (Championship defenders playing in Premier League midfield), We were outclassed, shocking.
We will stay up with:
O'neill in the middle
Aliadiere out right
Alves/Tuncay up front
Sort it out Gareth!
Spurs fans chanting Downings name sickened me, and only rubbed it in further.
(by the way AV, was good talking to you on the tube to West Ham, good day that)
Try this site for reliable streams;
www.live-footy.org
**AV writes: Yes, West Ham was one of the better days. Glad you enjoyed it.
Went to the game last night and for the first time in nearly 30 years of watching the Boro I left at half time. The defence were a complete shambles. Its not that spurs looked particularly good either. We gifted them three really soft goals.
Realise that theres still a lot to play for but can't really see us getting out of this one especially if we continue to play like that. Absolutely gutted.
The difficulty we have is that we have drifted into the position where draws are not good enough. When Pompey visit they will be two points ahead with a game in hand. A draw would be a decent result for them and poor for us. Our visit to Stoke may well be the same scenario.
The points have to be taken over the next couple of matches because if we dont the clubs we are playing could well be too far in front for us to catch. We dont want to rely on expected points from unexpected sources.
The game against Everton almost becomes a 'pre season' friendly in mid season. A chance to clear the head before going again. I will dwell on gates comments about maybe the players thought the job was done another time.
Boro's fate wont be decided until the last day of the season. It is going down to the wire (some may say thats an optimistic view!). Losing last night wasn't a disaster but it was a missed opportunity to pick up a point or three. Yet again the Boro players having put in two good performances have fallen into the complacency trap.
I also see that Redknapp had done his homework and Pogi got a good pasting, he's very limited a full back, slow and cumbersome. But this stuffing was the collective responsibility of the team and they failed to step up to the mark.
For sure we will need to pick up points from the obvious and less obvious matches to survive. This defeat wasn't the end of the world but its a big psycological below.
Malc, we couldnt afford an average championship midfielder - how can you say we should have bought Keane?
I think at 3-0 down it was wise to take Huth off, with some very important games coming up. He's been playing with an ankle injury and is too important to lose for any more games.
Was at the game last night, and it is summed up by the fact that our first team cost less than Wilson Palacios.
On a positive note - can anybody remember the last time Downing gave the ball away? Arca take note.
'There are 15 points to play for as we take on Portsmouth (H), Stoke (A), Bolton (A), Hull (H) and then Fulham (H). We must win at least three of those to have any chance of staying up and preferably get at least draws in the others too.'
Maybe it's time to end our Villa hoodoo as well.
If Tuncays 1st goal had been given we would have more than likley won by a couple or more. But after the second went in we were chasing shadows for the rest of the night. We have two more games to play before the trapdoor swings open 'cos if we lose them we wont recover.
I can't believe that Emnes is so poor that he isn't worth a chance. He can't be that bad. Whatever we hear (not worth the risk, not ready yet) we might accept if the current midfield wasn't so pedestrian and lacking in judgement.
If Digard can do it so can Emnes He looked the better player of the two when I first saw the clips of the two of them.Maybe I'm wrong but we need pace on the field and the movement stops at Arca. The long back passes from the halfway line drive me batty not only from Arca but also from half of the side. Two to go or are we going to dig in and fight?
Was that zonal marking again or was there a memo sent round before kick off that we were not allowed to tackle?
I pause/played back Tuncays goal on match of the day and he is level when the ball is kicked and he knows he is. Barnickles !
Its an absolute DISGRACE!!! Never in a million years should we be going to the Geordies of the south and gettin pasted 4-0 after such a good performance against Liverpool.
I thought the team should have changed with King coming in for Bates and moving Alliadeire to the right and O'Neil inside one. Tuncay dropping deeper into the hole and linking up with King.
It shows again the tactical inexperience of southgate to think we can go to Spurs and play open attractive football and think its a walk in the park. White Hart Lane is a massive pitch and they use it to the maximum. Their main threat is Lennon so why not get two men tight down the right and try to push them out so the pass is snuffed out before it gets to him or he needs to drop deeper to get the ball? We were set up wong and had the wrong attitude and deserved what we got!
This is a joke, an absolute shambles and some one needs to take responsibility.
Get southgate out and give Agnew a crack for the next 10 games. Can it get any worse?
SOUTHGATE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Prior to the matches against Wigan, Liverpool and Spurs I think the manager and most of the fans would have accepted a four point return.The fact that they came in the match least expected is irrelevant.
In any game away from home if you give two sloppy goals away in the first 15 minutes then 9 times out of 10 its game over. You then have to chase the game and leave yourselves wide open. Lennon roasted the super quick Patrice Evra on Sunday so it's little surprise he gave Pogi a torrid time?
Forget it and move on. There are 10 games left and 30 points to play for. We need four wins and two draws to reach 40 points. It's difficult but possible.
What a bizarre game that was! We played as if we needed to win 4-0. What a contrast to the Wigan/Blackburn home games.
I agree with a previous poster that I think some of the critism is harsh. The defence was all over the place. We had two 'goals' disallowed, hit the post, missed a sitter from two yards and had countless other chances to score. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
The passing generally was excellent, but everytime they went forward they looked like scoring (and usually did).
In my opinion we have played well at Man city and Spurs without getting anything from the games. Lets hope the rub of the green changes in the cup on Sunday - although I'm not confident.
In past seasons we have averaged about a point a game throughout the season and it's been enough to keep us out of the bottom three and stay up. We are not far off that statistic. So if we manage to get 38 points will that be enough for survival?
Similar performances in the remainder of the season, but with a much tighter defensive display will give me confidence for staying up. We must, however, give Alves a chance to come off the bench. King added nothing last night.
A Spurs fan here. Mr Southgate should have taken the money offered from us for Downing and rebuilt in other key areas. What a ridiculous oversight by him thinking keeping Downing would give you a better chance of survival. One man doesn't make a team.
Personally had Gareth not let his pride get in the way of footballing matters and concentrated on the job at hand, instead of continuously claiming and counter claiming that 'Downing wasn't for sale' at any given media opportunity , YOUR BORO may have been well on their way to safety .
As it now stands , it looks like Boro are going down and Downing will leave in the summer and dare I say it for a lot less than the 15 million Spurs offered in January , ( well done GARETH , what a great young manager you really are (NOT !!! )
SCOTT, Enfield, London
David Morrison.
If Southgate had changed the team which had won the last two games and played so well then every message board and blog would have been inundated with people wanting him sacked for changing a winning line up.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing you know. Players made individual errors which were punished. Direct some of your anger at them. If Man Utd had lost at Newcastle last night as a result of Van der Saar's individual mistake is that his responsibility or Alex Ferguson's?
The defending on three occasions was deplorable.
Gareth Southgate still doesn’t know the simplicity of picking the right team for the right occasion or changing his tactics when needed. Even Ali Brownlee seemed lost for words to report at the end. Score one against the Boro and they fall to pieces is what other managers will be saying.
If the fans don’t pile on the pressure by venting their anger and utter frustration after that lack-lustre performance at the back then we are sunk.
I am fed up with Gareth Southgate’s limp excuses which identify beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is our weakest link and downfall. He has no experience of being in this position at managerial level and does it show.
Who gives a toss about the Cup when we are on our way to the Championship?
If someone with more knowledge upstairs comes in now, they will at least have a couple of weeks to assess things and mentality prepare the squad for what must be.
I would sack Gareth Southgate and thank him for his time whilst we still have a chance to save our season and it would give the place a lift.
A new face would give the town a massive lift and also fill the ground with fans.
Going back to point Nigel made several days ago about my comments about square pegging. Is bates more of a square peg at right back than in a holding role in midfield?
Very tricky choice but I would prefer Hoyte at right back.
Pogo at left back? He has played there for much of his career and his replacement, Taylor, has not had a good season.
As for other players, the land crab would not be my first choice.
But it all comes down to the simple fact that following the West Ham and Liverpool games you would be hard pushed not to say same again.
There may be an unpalatable fact we need to swallow, we may not be as good as we fans think we are. The squad is thin and there isnt much scope for change.
The current players aided and abetted by the coaching team are the ones to get us out of the pickle we are in.
Will we do it? It will be tough but I would rather us go down fighting than just slipping away.
Well lets face it. it was entirely predictable, we have a soft underbelly and simply don't turn up for the mediocre teams and haven't done for a few years now. It's no use performing in the Cup games or against the "big" teams and not bother against the West Broms, Bolton's, Sunderland's etc.
The weaknesses last night were complex ranging from attitude, set pieces, usual LB topic, players with alleged injuries and substitutions which added more labouring intensity instead of upping the tempo.
That was the best opportunity in months for us to dig our way out of it and in "Typical Boro" fashion we just dug deeper.
There is still enough to play for and keep it in our own destiny (looking at the fixtures for all the clubs around us), but it's futile and pointless if we simply don't turn up on the night.
It will be interesting to hear from the "Foam Handers" and their angles/iews on last night as they usually only appear sporadically after victories.
I will probably be at variance with a number of posters on here but I wouldn't blame GS for last night's result.
Let me say first up that I have posted several times saying I think GS needs to be got rid of and I still think that. Even if we stay up Mr Gibson needs to do the right thing and say 'enough is enough'.
But I was pleased that last night he resisted the temptation to change the side, put out the same XI that were universally (on this blog anyway) lauded after Saturday, and said to them "same again lads."
That's fair enough in my book. Boro went out looking to attack and get forward and after the horrors of too many performances this season when we've barely got into the oppo half, this too was fair enough. As the Spurs fans coming on here have said, on another day we would have come away with far more.
What no-one could legislate for was defenders not doing their jobs, having done them reasonably well in the last few games. Speaking as a manager myself (my beloved U12's) I know just how exasperating and frustrating it is working on plans in training and then seeing players forget all about them when they get onto the pitch. Why they do this is one of football's mysteries.
I wouldn't be too depressed by last night, as many others are, if it was one of those one-off games when everything works for your opponents and nothing goes for you.
But there's the thing. GS' new-found commitment to straightforward tactics, attacking brio and positive approach have come far, far too late, and as others have pointed out, we are now in a situation where draws won't do. Games are running out and our overall trend is downwards while others around us are going upwards.
35 points is what I think we'll get, I've said so repeatedly, I said so after Sat and last night shows why I am so pessimistic. Opportunities are fast running out.
Stockton Red.
Fans care about results and performances. Would you have been bothered if southgate had changed the team and we had won or picked up a point?
We should have shut up shop tried to counter their best players on their home patch and hopefully nicked one on the break. I wouldnt have been bothered if we had lost 1-0 or 2-0 but 4-0? COME ON!!!!
It was a shocking defensive performance caused by us opening up against a team that if you give them time and space they will hurt you, posession,shots,corners all support the fact.
Time and time again we are seeing the tactical awareness of a man devoid of any inspiration or ideas. The team fell apart last night and it could and should have been more. Yes we hit the post, and yes we had to offside decisions against us but if thats all your clinging to then we are as good as gone becasue thats not enough to keep us in the premiership.
Well, didn't we get stuffed? I'm not shocked by the scoreline, because it should have been more but the performance of the same team that stuffed West Ham, and beat Liverpool, was a disgrace!
The only player that stood out for me was Tuncay, he tried, and tried, and it just wouldnt go for him. The other person that stood out was again Julio Arca, because he was hopeless. I couldn't count on two hands the amount of times he lost the ball.
Also, why oh why did we get King on loan? Yeh Alves doesn't seem to be able to hit the back of the net, but this guy is useless! At least bring on Emnes, who wants to run past the defence, instead of run into them!!!
And for the person who said Alves must take part of the blame because we paid so much for him.... hang on a minute, we are the ones that payed £12.7million for him, he didn't force us to do pay that amount for him.
Anyway, the next five games are vital. We have to get at least three wins! Pompey is a must, and so is Hull. Fulhum is another, and then the away games getting two points is vital.
AV
You nearly got away with it but what are you doing watching feeds of matches on the internet?
Or was it just something to pad out the story line and make good copy?
Despite what I wrote earlier, I do still think we can get out of this. However, what it requires is the attacking side from last night, and the defensive side from the West Ham game. The problem is that Portsmouth have width on the right with Pennant, so Pog may get another pasting.
Hopefully Pompey and Stoke will play for a draw (given their points cushion) and we can then take the initiative to them and go for a win. Make no mistake though, we must win both of our next two league games.
Last season the players had their epiphany and strung together just enough to get over the line. But then we had the cushion of actually being in front of teams. Now we're behind, wild-eyed and desperate.
A lot of people have already made their mind up on the issue of "Is GS right for the job?"; most people saying "no" and a hardcore few sticking to their principles and saying "yes".
Me? I'm not 100% decided. However, I am 100% convinced that no matter what happens - GS and his motley crew will be here next season. Despite the steady decline of our league position and an even steadier decline in settled tactics. And that fellow Boro fans, is the most depressing thing of all.
Av, I was expecting a draw but you went for a win. Same with Boro! I think the team played as most fans wanted - with two strikers etc.
I think our captain was like the L'pool defender against Dowmning - given a 'chasing' . Glad that Taylor was bought on but why Huth out?
Also the game was like the match against L'pool. Two goals and game over but a lot of changes for both teams. Boro could have had four agaist L'pool, too.
But this happens with the young team we got. Let's hope for all the best in the next Premier league match. Also 'typical' Boro could get a draw from Everton one never know!
Up the Boro!
One sentence is best applied in this situation, although a friend of mine used it first:
If we finish 17th then I'm happy!
Ian
I agree with your posting at 1:16. I've been as hard as anyone on Gate this season - and I think the critcism was and is merited. Last night was mostly down to the players, though.
Their amazing ability to believe their own publicity in the face of all the evidence to the contrary (offset only by a couple of decent results) puts even most politicians to shame. Confidence is one thing - complacency is another.
This is why they always found spouting the 'E' word so easy. They thought that the discipline, graft and organisation that has characterised the last few games wasn't necessary any longer - as opposed to believing that that's what comes out of the box with any halfway decent Prem footballer.
They tried to go kamikaze against a Spurs side that were just set up to deal with that. I'm going to argue with the assertion that if Tuncay's 'good' goal hadn't been chalked off we'd have got something from the game. Yes, 6-2 would have been a more respresentative result of the play but Spurs were four goals better than us.
I was interested - but not much - in the views of our friend from Enfield about Stewie.
I bow to no man in my admiration of the lad but he was as culpable as anyone last night. For some reason he wanted to play deep and tucked in. Both of these together are bad news as yesterday showed.
But my big gripe is that the slaughter of Pogi by Lennon was all taking place on Stewie's wing in the first half. I didn't see much evidence of the Boro winger tracking back and helping by doubling up on Lennon or matching a few of his run.
Steering him into an Austrian tackle or two early doors might have made Lennon think twice. As it was, Pogi didn't get close enough for a tackle.
We're the spectators, not the guys in the red shirts on the pitch.
Well, what would Sun Tzu have made of that? Kamikaze wasn't one of his, was it?
My 15 year old chose to go the game last night as his reward(!) for a man of the match performance in junior football on Sunday - there's a life lesson there, if he wants to be a Boro fan.
My impressions:-
I've seen Boro play at countless grounds down the years, from Bishop's Stortford to Eindhoven, but this was my first at White Hart Lane. What a great place to watch football! Tight enclosed ground, superb view, beautiful pitch and a cracking atmosphere (Boro defence - take a bow for your contribution to that).
It seemed clear from the off that Huth wasn't in the game for whatever reason, Pogatetz couldn't get close to Lennon and generally we had no answer to Spurs' passing and lateral movement around our box. (Having said that, "mark a man each", "stay goalside" and "go with the runners" didn't put in an appearance either). And when we did get the ball upfield Aliadiere had lead weights in his boots - obviously a game too far with his lack of matches lately.
Aside from Tuncay and Downing, I actually thought Arca was the pick of the rest. He was always involved, kept it simple and kept the play moving when we had the ball.
We had our chances (as many as Spurs did), two were harshly flagged - I was dead level for Tuncay's late header and he was not offside - and we couldn't take the others. One of those nights. Trouble is, it's rapidly becoming 'one of those seasons', with games running out and other teams starting to win.
Oh, and someone needs to explain the offside rule to Marlon, he seems determined to always be a yard OFFside when the ball is played rather than the other way around. It might help.
In the "Spurs Superstore" after the game, the girl serving asked me if I was a Member. I thought 'I do feel a bit of dick right now, actually', but I just smiled politely and took my change...
Once Spurs realised that when Boro put the ball in the net the ref wouldnt allow it then they poured forward with gay abandon. With the ref on their side they literally could not lose. Gary Lineker you better watch it mate-
What a reality check! Like many on here i think the players must shoulder most of the blame for last night, but what worries me is that GS states "they thought all they had to do was turn up and they would win a game of football" Can't GS sense that in the build up and what was said in the dressing room before hand?
A few stand out points for me.
1.We have no left back. I've banged this drum all season, but it really came home to roost last night.
2. Arca must not play again this season. I cannot see how he warrants selection. He is so far off the pace, and his tippy tap give aways must out number his tippy taps to a boro shirt. Nice bloke but no more thanks Julio
3. Taking Huth off has made him a scapegoat. He has been our best defender for the last month and humiliating him won't help our cause
4. Totally agree with Phil ex warrenby. If ever there was an opportunity to give Emnes a half it was last night. What a waste of money. Poor kid
If we do go down this season, the real sickener will be it wasn't because the side wasn't good enough, but because of a flawed transfer policy, poor selections, missed opportunities, dreadful PR, and an all round collective failure. However, there are 10 cup finals to play. Maybe I'm dissecting the season too early?
Surely David Morrison is on crack? Make Steve Agnew manager? Haha, hilarious. We are not Spennymoor Town. Our cheap option, under skilled, inexperienced, under qualified backroom staff is the main reason we are in this mess!
When GS was appointed it was vital we supported him by employing worldly, talented, experienced, motivators around him. What do we get? Agnew and Crosby? Brilliant, what history do they have? A failed Sunderland management career and a journeyman former Sunderland midfielder - well thats just what Middlesbrough Football Club needs isnt it?
On that note - Agnew seems to be all over the place, where has Coops gone (not that he was doing much better, just curiousity!)
For once I don't think Southgate should shoulder all the blame. I think the players expected Spurs to be a bit sluggish after their Carling Cup exploits but Harry Redknapp is a shrewd manager and he will have been telling his players to go for the jugular early.
In hindsight 20 minutes of quick tackling and a defensive attitude would have served us well, we play better on the counter after all Ten to go, five wins a must and the next two we cannot afford to drop a point. Now lets see what this lot are made of.
Some of the posters here weren't peer to peering, but were at the pub (where it had been expected the game would be on TV). This is despite the site stating "Myp2p wins court case. Start enjoying it all again...!"
Sadly the boys in the “Pickled Panda” had to watch Newcastle v Man Utd on one channel and Blackburn v Everton on another. With someone giving regular updates from the Boro game via the BBC Tees commentary.
Ali Brownlee might be a Boro fanatic in possession of a radio microphone, but few would accuse him of rampant objectivity in his commentary. Anyway, even Ali couldn't disguise his disappointment and the feeling was that the defending was unacceptably poor for a team hoping to remain in the Premier League.
(As an aside here, I'll bet Ali is glad to be out of the banking industry at present. Mind you, BBC pensions are unlikely to get certain politicians pompously invoking some imaginary "Court of Public Opinion". What are the rules of evidence in that court? And does the public get a chance to give its opinion on other issues as well, or only ones where the Right Honourable and Learned Lady believes it shares her views? Sounded like a load of Ed Balls to me).
At the end of the day the Boro has had the double done over it by the bottom team in the League. Teams of the undoubted quality (Oh, go on then! Have a go at me for sarcasm) of West Brom and Spurs have beaten us 3-0 and 4-0 respectively. We have lost at Hull despite having taken the lead there: a promoted team universally expected to be relegated at the start of the season and that has just ended a run of bad form that was possibly worse than our own recent extended run of mediocrity.
Where is the cyanide? Or did someone sprinkle a small dose in the players' "sports drinks" at Spurs?
Sorry about that. But sometimes it must be let out.
Does anyone imagine Gate having a go at the players in the changing rooms at half time? Does he know what a hairdryer looks like? I think I know one manager who, after some of the displays we have witnessed this season, would have rammed the machine down some of the players' throats and made them swallow, rather than just letting them have a blast of its heat.
And so, to the joys of Goodison. We will no doubt be told that our team will put out of its mind the fact that Everton has suffered so many injuries this season that members of the groundstaff there are expecting to be called up for a game. Do they have any fit card-carrying forwards left? Anyone who could hop on one leg?
Despite it all, they have scored 36 league goals so far, and we have 20. I'm waiting for the spin in advance of this game. I'm not so sure I will want to hear what is going to be said afterwards. It will have to be the pub again, as watching these away games on TV can cause even a man of prudent habits to resort to strong drink.
And I agree with the earlier contributor that, (even if he cannot be happy with his contribution this term) the blame can't all be laid at Alves' door.
Does anyone else here hate football? Or does it go with the Boro territory?
What really worries me after Spurs is that having raised our game so much to beat the Hammers and L'Pool, we then get absolutely bladdered by a relegation rival, so that the confidence we'd just built up gets blown away in one fell swoop. How do we get it back again after so many previous setbacks?
Well, Everton, for one. I do want us to do well in the Cup. A stronger performance there will do us good. I shall be there. And yes, I would settle for a replay.
And I guess Gate has 2 or 3 options open to him for our next few games:-
1) Keep roughly the same side that beat L'pool, tighten up at the back and go on the offensive
2) Make mega changes to the side that lost at Spurs
3) Go back to the defensive mentality that bored us to death against Blackburn and Wigan.
2 would be a panic measure, and likely to dent confidence still further, I guess. Let's stick with the stability of a settled side (minus Arca).
3 would be a disaster. We'd have to claw our way to goals and points (not enough goals and not enough points in all probability.)
So for me, the only real chance of staying up is if we continue going forward and creating the chances we have been doing. If we don't create them, we won't win games, simple as.
My worry is that Gate will choose the wrong option. Evidence suggests that this is what he does. My guess is that he will also choose the wrong option of not picking Marvin Emnes. He should have been given his chance several games ago when we couldn't buy a goal. He scored a belter at Wolves and played well against West Ham. Surely it's worth the risk, Gareth?
Anyway, let's put Spurs behind us. Time to move on. Come on Boro!
DEAR OH DEAR. Here we go again. Gareth took the credit for the Liverpool game, claiming he give the team a pre match rocket. Good on yer Gareth, you're the manager so if the side play well you rightly take the credit.
BUT after the Spurs game, NO Gareth its not the players to blame. Stand up and take the credit. By the way did you all notice Agnew was sat quite as if he had been told to sit down and shut up.
So what happened to the two banks of four? Hit them on the counter? Let them run themselves out? Rope a dope and all that. Suddenly we win two games and nobody picks up anymore. Players stop tracking back and the game is like a testimonial, wide open. Then to cap it all Huth gets blamed for bad defending. What an insult. What about our can not defend captain? He got torn apart.
ANYWAY lets try to stay positive. Its the FA CUP this week. Gareth loves the cup, more important than staying in the league. So maybe if we can learn from the other night.God I AM SOUNDING LIKE GARETH.Yes learn from the other night and go back to basics. Defend as if you mean it. Stop Evertons well rehearsed corners, free kicks then we have a chance.
Please Gareth send King back to fight with Mido and set young Emnes free. The boy can play. Emnes Johnson and Walker all coming on together with their energy for the last 20 mins will give everyone a big lift. Come on Gareth get it right.
John Powls, March 5th 3:44pm:
Well said Sir, well bloody said.
Complacency from the players pure and simple. The strange thing is, that this has been happening over the past 5-6years, even in the early McClaren years when he made us "keep it tight". Downing must be the only ever present during this last 6yr period, but he can't be the only one lighting his pipe up before another so called "easy game".
So why do we do it time and time again? Why is this blog/board called "Untypical Boro"? Exactly because this complacency has become an ingrained feature in Boro teams down the years.
That is why being a Boro fan must carry the greatest risk of stress related injury, because most of the time you just can't explain what the hell is going on. I can accept that over a season we will probably finish 13th-17th place in the league, and flash a little too much leg at the leering old man of relegation. But, what drives me to despair is the wild fluctuations in commitment and performance.
I say "wild", but what I could equally say is "predictable" - hence Typical Boro. I'm sure more than one person had this niggling doubt about the Cardiff game last season before the inevitable embarrassment. Maybe this is passed onto the players, that the fans are nervous about another bout of Typical Boro.
But I don't think it is that, they don't look scared and nervous, they just look complacent. As though they believe their own hype. And, this comes down to GS. He tried to build their confidence by showing them the early season goals. It worked, we won 2 games on the spin.
But the problem with GS is that he appears to be all softly, softly, positive with the players. He has apologised to the fans after the Spurs game for the poor performance. Admirable stuff, but he should have dragged out Poggy and made him stand next to him and explain himself, and the rest of the players because they weren't good enough. This is where, despite his leg fracture, GS could do with a visit to the Cloughie statue for inspiration.
I heard a story recently which made me chuckle, but also recalled some of the brilliant man management that the great man was known for. The night before the 1979 league cup final, Forest against Southampton. Clough locked all the team in a room and made them neck a crate of champagne.
The next day he was nowhere to be seen as the teams came out, and at half time Southampton were one goal up. As the team sat in the dressing room at half time Clough popped his head round the door at half time and bollocked them all for drinking the night before the game. Whether they were annoyed or laughed it off who knows, but Forest won the game 3-2.
His players were up for nearly every game because he was a great motivator. He knew when to shout out during training "You're rubbish - get off!" and also when an arm round the shoulder and a bit of confidence is needed. The problem with GS is he thinks that football players don't like the harder side and wants to be all softly softly with them.
Until somebody starts to rollock them for performances like Wednesday it will repeat ad infinitum.
Southgate is a bit too much of a gent, but I think he did the right thing keeping faith with the same team that beat Liverpool. Redknapp's bluff about 'Boro loving our loss after penalties in the cup ' had our players on the go slow from the off.
Pogger against Lennon is a no contest. Hoyte has a brother on loan from Arsenal who can play left back but the window is shut and we have Marlon King.
I agree with everyone that EMNES fits our quick attacking style and should be brought on before anyone else!
I can see the Everton match coming back to the Riverside.
Finally, I dont agree with Scott in Enfield, I am glad we kept Downing as he is one of the players that can make a difference to us staying up. Scott, we have not got Spurs financial clout and who wants to come to Boro in Jan when we are more than flirting with relegation. Not Ben Watson anyway! O'Neil, Tuncay and Downing have been major factors in recent wins and may yet keep us up.
I agree with Ian, JP and others. We lost against Spurs because of complacency, having performed well in two games then coming up against a Spurs side who had just lost a final after 120 mins of tough football. The Boro players clearly thought all they had to do was pop into White Hart Lane, collect the three points and push off home.
A disgraceful pathetic attitude, time has run out to keep learning these lessons, there is no more scope for complacency, we need 11 totally committed players on the pitch for the full 90+ minutes for every match from now until the end of the season. If we get that we might stay up, if we don't then we're down.
Stockton Red : "There are 10 games left and 30 points to play for. We need four wins and two draws to reach 40 points. It's difficult but possible."
Agree with that, but as we have failed to collect points at the rate needed up until now, what exactly is going to change over night?? We need to double our points per game rate over the next five games.
Possible, yes, but not difficult - more like extremely unlikely given performances so far!
Pogatetz looks to me like hes playing in quicksand
Oh, by the way, what did you expect? We were playing SPURS for chrissakes - as led by Mr Redknapp. And either through a combination of the two factors or by virtue of the players themselves, you do know that Spurs quite often put FOUR goals past their opposition on frequent occasions (check the stats), so that wasn't so much as the shock that it COULD have been.
When was the last time Boro put four goals more than once past their opposition? Erm..... back in the heady giddy glory days of Mr McClaren and the undoubted "glamour" strike force of Messrs Hasselbaink, Viduka and Yakubu of course!
My, Boro seem like a completely different team now - like one that is not good enough to be League One material more like! Stop playing like bloody schoolboys and get a grip cos time is running out fast!!!!!
Totally agree AV with your comments, the writing was on the wall with 'spurs are tired after a extra time and pens etc,
Redknapp stating 'Boro will be happy us playing ET & pens' blah,blah,blah,
We got sucked in to mind games and paid the price for it, when we realised what was happening it was too late.
Of the games we have available the one that worries me is the Stoke game, they will batter us and I don't think we could cope.
I was 'lucky' enough to get a ticket to watch the match at White Hart Lane, going with a friend who is actually an Arsenal fan. We sat with what I think must have been the Spurs 'prawn sandwich' lot, very quiet.
Dreadful display and it occurred to me AV that previously you stated that Downing is worthy of a better side than Spurs. However having watched the match I'm left thinking that every Spurs player on view that night would have got into the Boro side.
davidt.
Just a thought. Our starting line up cost around £19m with another £15m on the bench. Compare and contrast and these are the only Spurs players whose transfer fees I know off the top of my head: Keane £14m, Pavlyuchenko £14m, Palacios £14m, Modric £16m, Bent £16m, Gomes Woodgate and Corluka £8m each. Oh and I forgot Bentley and Defoe at £15m apiece.
I would venture to suggest that their league position is little short of a scandal given the money spent on their squad.
Well I did the BBC Predictor before the Liverpool game and I had us finishing 14th. For the record I had a Zero points return from those two games.
I have re-done it with exactly the same results as last time and we still finish 14th with Pompey, Blackburn and WBA being relegated. But the Stoke, Blackburn and Hull results undid me as I they got more points than I thought they would. So I'm still hopeful. We need 9-10 points from the next five games and we will survive BUT we are depending on other results.
COME ON BORO
Two comments from made during Spurs debacle:
"You can see why Boro are struggling, they look good when on the ball but they are too easy to play against"(commentatator on "YES" Sopcast).
Also Gary O'neill shouting at the bench at half time "Why are they getting so much space?". These comments really sum up our season.
I am also fed up of GS again saying we need to sort it out on the training ground. Pogatetz is not a left back and he is only getting his place because he has been made captain. I would play Bates and Wheats and bring McMahon back even if its at left back but he has not even been on the bench last two games. Why not? Has he said something? I've heard he has spoken an home truth and upset GS.
Arca also has to give way to Walker in midfield. He is too slow and gets caught in possession too many times. GON and Walker centre, Adam on the right, Downing left, Tuncs and Ali up front. Let's go for broke with this team but it's imperative we also close teams down and defend further up the pitch.
Where's Colin Cooper these days? I don't really care, but, Boro haven't said where he is . Steve Agnew - let's get real, the guy hasn't got a record at Premier level.
Southgates decisions/inabilty to understand that you cannot put Pogatetz at left back when the opposing team has an orthodox and speedy right winger i.e Lennon, Wright - Phillips etc. The upshot of it all was Huth got pulled out of position - making him look inept whilst trying to cover Pogo's shortfalls.
Put a convential left back when he needs to face an out and out winger.Taylor did OK - it was just down to bad team selection.
Why doesn't Southgate and his backroom all go and manage Harrogate Town cos That's where they ALL live. Having said all that, Everton should be easy - they have one gun in their armoury - Cahill. Can we please mark him?
Pete at 1.39pm -
Everton also have another gun in their armoury: the same deadball situations (corners, free kicks) that have worked so effectively against us all season.
Without going off on another long post, we need 100% effort for the full 90+ minutes against Everton. We could do with the same square pegs in the same square holes that posters have been mentioning on this blog for ages. We want confidence from the players but not complacency. I agree it would be good to see Emnes make an appearance, maybe in the second half from the Bench.
Let's be honest, if the management doesn't believe Emnes can make a difference to the team then either they are wrong about his abilities, or they were wrong in their assessment of him and his value when they bought him. Whichever way, one very great error is staring us in the face. Fills you with confidence, doesn't it?
One last thing. Posters have suggested complacency on the part of the players before the Spurs game. How on earth can a situation have been allowed to exist where a team that had been in such a dismal run of league form (no wins for about 4 months) had become COMPLACENT when facing Spurs after just two wins against West Ham and Liverpool?
They should have been delighted with the results and performances against the Hammers and Liverpool, but after such a spirit-sapping run that, had it continued for a few more games would have sealed our fate, it beggars belief that complacency could set in so soon.
I suppose that, with the run of form they have been showing for the last few months, Manchester United would have had excuse for being complacent. But it's because their manager would never allow their players to become complacent that enables Man Utd to continue to play at a high level and to maintain their good form. That, of course, and the quality of the players, support staff and detailed preparation. You really would have to be living in another dimension from your brain to be a COMPLACENT Boro player at the moment.
So that's it, then. One-nil to the Boro at Everton tomorrow. Now, where did the nurse put my medication?
Why should the Spurs result have surprised. Reknapp took over end October when they had 2 points. We had 13. Last Wednesday, we had 26 against their 28. So which is the form team over the last four months?
Spurs have always been a footballers' team, but inconsistency over a season has been their weakness for a long time. But if their quality players have a good day they are likely to make hay. I think SD will go there in the summer and they will be a top eight side next season. As bad as the result was we must get over it and learn.
John, Aus
This morning finds me suffering from a split personality disorder. One part of me says stuff the Cup and don't risk injuries etc. but another says use it as a springboard. Let's face it its a win or bust cup tie so we have nothing to lose unlike every league game currently.
Maybe the opportunity to play open pressureless football (as West Ham) will be another much needed antidote for the Management and squad.
Premiership survival for me is far more important than Cup distractions but if the Everton game gives Gareth another opportunity for the Players to express themselves then lets make the most of it!
That said I would also use it as an opportunity to try some alternatives both in tactics and selection. Lets see a shuffle in the middle with G'ON moving in and Ali out wide and Emnes starting up front with Tuncay. Emnes is an unknown factor (including at Boro!).
Defensively we need a left back at left back and that means Tayls whether we like it or not. I would go for Huth and Wheats in the centre with Hoyte at RB. That leaves Stewy an obvious with either Bates or Walker alongside G'ON. Captains armband would have to go to Tuncay.
Ian Wood
I too think we need 9 or 10 points from the next five games because the last five are tough matches. We should get something but it as all too easy to see us struggling, West ham and Toon away are matches where we get very little over the years.
But that still depends on getting points from the next five. We have got five points from the last five games, 26 from the previous 28. So we now expect us to show Champions League form.
It is possible but we need to get at least four from Pompey and Stoke to get us back amongst the pack. The odds are against us surviving, the facts show us points and goal difference adrift and some teams with a game in hand.
But this is football, a run of good results would put our future back in our own hands. We just have to go and do it.
LOL at the smoggies booking their Wembley hotels already. Even if you fluke it today you will lose at Wembley like you always do. And get relegated, hopefully at SJP.
"attacking football" haha.
**AV writes: Have you e-mailed this here instead of the Legends by mistake?