Gate's Century: Dawn Of A New Era?

I think the vast majority of fans are supportive of Gates attempts to move the club forward towards a bright future. He is clearly being guided by Steve Gibsons vision for Boro and as such is probably constrained by that very vision.

I certainly like the football they are trying to play and would not like to return to some of the deliberately turgid displays of the past.

The difficulty he is facing is the inability to kill games off, and this is not a new phenomenon. (We can all think back to matches under Mac where we surrendered good positions) The same issues keep resurfacing of missing chances and letting in silly goals, defending too deep but not marking people - we had six red shirts and a keeper in the six yard box and a lumbering centre half clambered to his feet to score with no one in attendance.

The danger he faces is the dreaded Taylor ten match mantra. It is easy to see us getting nothing out of Wigan and Chelsea though points do come from the oddest sources and at the oddest times. We have been playing well in patches but not scoring and getting the points we need. That can be looked on as a positive but we remember Boro being everyones favourite team under Rioch.
There are plenty of points to play for but we would like a few more under the belt and now rather than later.

I dont think he can really change the style because of the players we have available. There isnt the experience at the back and we are always likely to be either attacking or defending, it doesnt appear as if we can play out time in the way Liverpool, Chelsea or ManU can.

Any calls for player x, y or z wont do us any good until towards the end of the season because they wont be here before the end of Jan, they may not be fully fit and will take time to bed in.

So Gate has to do it with what we have got. They say you cant teach an old dog new tricks, our puppies seem determined not to be house trained and resolutely refuse to learn lessons. Whilst the season is only six matches old if we continue to struggle to put points on the board and end up bouncing around just out of the bottom three then pressure will grow.

I'm quite heartened by the number of posts on here from the likes of Jiffy, Nigel and 'Ignorant' who despite seeing the points return fall away dramatically in the last 3 league matches remain upbeat about the prospects for the longer term.

In previous seasons, I imagine there could have been a veritable flood of awfully negative postings calling for the manager's head already. However, although a few are making warning noises, on balance, there seems to be a more patient resignation in the air based on an appreciation of the style of football that Southgate's trying to make work and the direction he's been taking with the squad reconstruction, albeit we're a bit light in certain areas.

Having done some numerical goal-time analysis, I agree with those who have mentioned already on the basis of match observation and gut-feel, that the main cause for concern is our inability to convert the chances we're making.

However, what the analysis throws into focus is a suspicion that to create those chances, we're having to play a relatively high-energy game from the off. And because we're not building that goals cushion earlier in matches, when we weaken - and we HAVE weakened badly in the closing stages of most matches - we're conceding enough goals to do serious points damage. One is usually enough to drop two points and two almost certainly enough to see us leave pointless, because of the small margins in our matches to date.

I'm not sure what Southgate means when he says we must "get back to basics", but worryingly, that was Steve McClaren's stock-phrase for public consumption when defence consolidation was on the cards.

I'm not saying this is a wrong approach when winning ugly or scraping draws is required, but some of the 'flair approach' may have to be sacrificed if energy is to be conserved a bit so that Boro can be a 95-minute competitive side, instead of the 80 minute side they have been in most matches so far.

The judicious use of the bench to substitute for 'spent legs' in high-mileage positions is also a tactic to employ.

However, I'm sure that all of these issues are well-recognised by Boro's management and coaching team and that it's only a matter of time until they're appropriately addressed!!

Also, anything that can be done, such as close personal coaching of individual strikers, to sharpen up the chance conversion rate performance of the strike force would be a welcome piece of attention.

It needs to be remembered that it's not skittles. The idea is to avoid hitting the goalkeeper, the crossbar, the post, either corner flag and the guy on Row 23 of the North Stand!

Now wait on damn minute here...

Too soon to judge???

What???

Have I logged onto the Beano blog by mistake?

After 100 games this is still a work in progress. Haha. Da Vinci took less time to paint his chapel in Rome.

"We've turned the corner"

"Steely Boro past Stoke test"

"Stew and Aliadiere are the best in the league"

So now that we are 1 game away from dropping into the bottom 3, as we always seem to be doing we get...

"Back to basics"

Back to basics??? What exactly were people doing in the off season? What training did they give the players?

Back to basics, a la John Major, is a shocking enditment of the failings of GS and CC and Mr Crosby and Co.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

GS said to "Judge me this year" and judge him WE WILL.

We should NEVER have put a rookie in charge of our club. Italy did it with Donadoni in the hope he would come good and we rightly got booted out.

GS and CC and Mr Crosby and Co. Sorry guys, but I made my mind up from day one and nothing I have seen or heard has changed that.

I for one can't wait for the day they get the bullet.

Sorry.

Can't score? Who exactly bought these players?

Can't win away? Who exactly trains these players?

No better keepers on the market? GS said he didn't buy not through lack of money but because he thinks what he has is better. Ok fine, but then he's to blame if it goes wrong, as with anything else.

No excuses. League position. End of story.

TB

Most of us are desperate for Gate to succeed but the continued repeated errors week in week out are worrying signs. If Zonal was a striker he'd be worth £40M because he is obviously the biggest opposition threat in our box.

Failure to have fitness levels that last 95 minutes or conversely tactics that are designed to last 95 minutes. Not dropping players who are off form and consequently playing them into ever decreasing and depressing circles. The re-emergence of Chuckle Brother syndrome "to me to you" passing which threatens absolutely nothing and no-one. Lacking the blatantly obvious defence splitting through ball which seems the only way Alves can score. Playing players out of position, (centre backs at either LB or RB, LB playing in midfield, Strikers playing Right Wing or even Left Wingers playing Right Wing etc.etc.). Bizarre injuries, C'mon was Arca fit to be on the bench at Sunderland or not, is Emnes a bad anagram of Enigma?

Goalkeeping wise I think I can understand his original logic but Gamblers usually Gamble when they are on a roll, Losers chance things against all odds. Claims that if the squad was too big the young lads would never get a chance yet Walker is overlooked in favour of a LB, Strikers who couldn't score over the border yet Craddock gets splinters in his derriere.

We can all see it so therefore the opposition managers can see it. The sooner Gate learns to change the shape of the game the better. I remember another Manager who used to stand looking lost at the side of the Pitch and spent his post match interviews mumbling non plussed about the opposition's "quality players", after two seasons the similarities are starting to show!

Lets hope we don't need to turn to El Tel come January to "get tough" again.

100 games too soon to judge? Are you having a laugh? Most bosses don't even last 100 games.

For me GS has made no difference to Boro at all. We are no further forward, if anything we've gone backwards since Eindhoven.

GS has lost good players and replaced them with average ones. We still can't beat West Brom or Sunderland, just missing more chances in doing it.

Tony Black in shock "made up mind on day one and won't change it no matter what" shock. Boring. Look, he got shot of your mate Maccarone. So would 95% of the rest of us. Get over it.

Anyway, why are you getting wound up over 100 games when you have admitted that you made your judgement and put your blinkers on after ONE?

For most of us reasonable ones with a realistic view of where Boro are and were when he took over two seasons IS too soon to judge.

First year he had his hands tied and was stuck with McClaren's ageing team. The second season he started to get his own team together, players and style. Third season? Yes third season you can judge, I will too - but not after SIX games.

I agree ... I made my mind up on day one about Southgate.But i did that becouse i was promised a top drawer manager by Gibson after Mac left.

We all winge and wine about Mac but he produced a top half europe getting season and a cup.We have since he left stagnated or gone backwards....fact...no matter how you look at it.

Yes we all want a good team to watch on saturday... yes we want to connect with that team and feel it is local.... but i feel we are trying to be the Crewe of the premiership. We have basically given up on competing and winning or even finishing in the top six. We are happy with survival which is a far cry from not so many years ago when we where promised the world and got nothing.

I will support Boro even if they play Sunday football but lets not joke ourselves ... Southgate will not get sacked no matter what and we are no longer trying to compete. We are purely trying to survive in the premier league and that is the game plan.

As usual, I enjoyed reading the blog entry and the comments on it. Got me thinking...

What do we (the supporters) want? I'm not sure that there's one answer to that. Some of us seem to want European football year in and year out while some of us seem to be happy with us surviving in the big league.

In some masochistic way, I like the idea of us being a maverick club, refusing to sell out when most of football seems to have lost its soul. Whether that approach will ever catapult us into the top reaches of the league is doubtful, but I tend to agree with Mr. Average and his assessment of the current state of things.

As Thomas Paine once wrote, "these are the times that try men's souls..."

We'll find out who the men on the team are in the next couple of games, just as we'll find out who the "fair weather supporters" are (if we don't know already.

Come on Boro! Let's bounce back...like good old Charlie Brown, I'm going to try to kick the football...AGAIN!

The sooner Tuncay comes back the better.

As always the rose tinted brigade can only ever mock. Not one of can or does ever answer any of my points.

Yes, I judged him from day one and won't change my mind, but at least I offer up points of debate and do try to debate even if you guys don't agree with me and just dismiss me. I have never just come in here and hurled abuse.

So why don't we debate?

Why are we having to go back to basics if GS, CC and Crosby did their jobs properly in the off season? Shouldn't we be at the stage of fine tuning and kicking on?

We can't win away for love nor money? Why not? Am I to blame for this?

Why can't we last out a game without perennially conceding late on?

Only a mad man punts his entire reputation on two keepers that no one rates coming out and stating that he didn't buy because there were none better on offer. What exactly does this say about peoples judgement at the club?

Come on guys, wake up and smell the coffee. GS and CC and Co, great chaps and all that but poor at what they do.

We'd better just pray we beat Wigan or else the fan will be full of it.

TB

Smoggy in exile:

We have attended the lessons but stubbornly the players refuse to listen. Are the players sat at their desks with fingers in their ears shouting lalala at the top of their voices.

Or maybe it is in the mind, they think they wont keep a clean sheet and the opposition think the same. What is more our players know they know and the opposition know we know they know.

Or as TB says are they not fit enough to last 95+ mins.

Or is it the area of substitutions where we are letting ourselves down by timing, choice etc.

The finishing is a totally different matter. Some people take a positive out of the number of chances we are creating. I dont because if we cant score when we are on top with chance after chance I suspect when we play better teams we wont get the chances. The pretty football at Liverpool still had them dominating in terms of possession and chances, the pretty football at Sunderland got us 0 goals and 0 points.

I still like the way we are playing, I dont want deadly dull football but time will tell if we will be succesful.

Not sure what we really expect here. I've grown up on a diet of us being pretty crap, achieving nothing, usually being in the second tier and being a middle ranking club a la Leicester, Wolves etc.

The last 10 years have been halcyon days in my life as a Boro fan and I am behind Gate in what he is trying to achieve. We complained about sterile, conservative football and demanded change. So along comes Gareth, a former Boro captain who obviously cares about the club and its fans, and sets about clearing out the ageing superstars and replacing them with a younger, pacier team.

Only problem is the purse strings are tighter now and other teams have long since over taken us in the rich league. Lets face facts; we are small players in the financial premier league. Most clubs have mega rich benefactors and fan bases that enable them to attract the very best players. Granted there are exceptions but not many.

The reality is we must cut our cloth accordingly. When were we ever top 6 material given the size of our club? Look at the clubs bigger or the same size as ours that now inhabit the lower reaches of the Championship and league one, and still some moan. For goodness sake; remember where we came from and celebrate where we are.

Of course I want more and think we should be doing better, and I believe this team will. Turnbull will come good given a chance but we all want instant genious. Did we really expect to beat Pompey, ManU and the bin dippers who have invested 70 million in the past 2 years? WBA granted, was a sickener but we created enough to know the wins will come. Some need to keep it real here.

TB; you're a funny guy-keep posting. Paul Bell; are you Spartacus?

I thought about making a comment, but then thought why bother. We'll huff and puff our way over the next 30 odd games again, only this time we may not be good enough.

I've had the chance to see a number of games in the lower leagues this season and I have to say the majority of teams were more focused and played in a more precise way, than we do. In fact I saw southampton lately, they have a much younger team than we have but their one touch football was outstanding and I see a brighter future for them. We still play too square.

Vic:

"I still believe that Boro are two, maybe three, players away from being a very good side "

After the good end to last season, I also believed that (and still do). But I don't believe that Steve Gibson is prepared to spend money to get them any more. What a great opportunity to do something this season we had, but after sales and the two signings it worked out we had spent nothing.

I can't see how after selling lots of players and signing two ( one of which GS clearly does'nt rate ) we are supposed to kick on and climb the table.

I do support GS and think we potentialy have a very good side, but I just don't think we will get to see it's full potential if we are not prepared to at least spend a little. So as usual we are left with a team that are world beaters/pub side.

Tony Black, what a wierdo! You're never happy. Are you saying the keepers are no good? They have had man of the match reviews in almost all the games played so far.

In my opinion GS is doing a fine job and he has the side playing a far better brand of footer than any of the past half dozen bosses.sure he is still learning and will have us up there before too long. Going into a debate with you, on football, would be like a duell against an unarmed man.Go and support the Quakers.

David Morrison and stockton red (and others)

I think you are right on the mark here.

I read AV's blog and his perceptive piece in the Gazette and then followed up by reading Martin Samuel's illuminating article in The Times today which is, co-incidentally, complementary to what AV has said on Gate's first 100 in it's comments on Prem finance.

In between, I saw the Arsenal tonking of Porto following on the defeat by Hull. That reminded me of much of what Arsene Wenger has said about his model for The Gunners that David sets out above and the impacts that sometimes has on performance and results.

I also listened to what Stuart Pearce said about the conversations he had had with Wenger when he was Citeh boss and now with Eng-er-lund.

Maybe I'm thick because it hadn't struck me before or maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and making 2 and two into more than four - but I just wonder whether Wenger isn't a strong influence and a role model for Gate in his development as a manager.

And if that's the case, is what Gate is consciously trying for in the football side of the club a sort of Arsenal lite? (Gibbo has also said how good they are for him to do business with, though they have a different business model to MFC and more resources)

The more I thought about the idea the more parallels I thought of - positive and not so. And the difficulties of transcribing such an approach downscale and what some of the outcomes of that would be.

Think about it - am I right or shoot me down.

If I'm right, we all know that we still need our Fabregas lite - and that's one of the reasons we aren't nailing results.

Gate might also take a look at the Wenger approach to defending corners. Both posts manned, Adebayor (or similar) as a front blocker marking a 'zone' on the front post corner of the six yard box, the rest marking men and a sizeable gap in front of Almunia that allows him to come out unhindered and command if he needs to.

All I need for confirmation now is for Gate to not see a crucial incident from the dugout!

Or you could ask him who his key influences are when you next interview him, AV.

tony black

What is it that you have seen to make such a judgement about Southgate's coaching credentials?

Most bloggers on here are of the mind that previous seasons his hands have been tied and behind the scenes influences affected the way he wanted to play.

We are 6 games in and I'm sure Southgate himself will admit to maybe making a few mistakes, but you know what, so what if he does. It's part of learning. Did you know from day one exactly what you needed to do in your job? Were you so perfect that you didnt need any training or asked the odd colleague for help?

It's life, it's management and it's football. Southgate is held in high regard by Wenger and that is good enough for me. He is trying to build a side that can not only exist but compete and to do that takes time, time which I am, as well as others are, prepared to give him.

You want Gibbo out? I dare you to stand up at the Chelsea game and start shouting for his head. You want more money? Then go find an investor that will invest with no redevelopment area around the stadium, no Oxford Street to attract the big names and no possible way ever of making this club profitable. You want a new manager? Who? name me one man that could do a better job that would seriously come here.

COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I am seeing on the pitch is a team ready to burst... you can't create this many chances and not score all season.

Once game were gonna put 4 or 5 in and the lads will garner up some much needed confidence.

Losing games that you should have won is de-moralizing. I think the Liverpool loss would have crushed any teams confindence?

C'mon Boro

Totally agree with Dave's comments. Midfield is a major worry, the present crop are too slow and too static and since Rocky's departure we have no one who can pick a pass or thread a ball through the opposition defence.

Why not give the likes of Walker and Emnes a go? If they are good enough they are old enough, just look at the arsenal kids. If we think we have a good crop give them a chance. At least put them on as sub.

From the next two games we must get some return. Six defeats off the spin really would be catastrophic. As for Downing's comments about finishing in the top 7, I think he must be angling for a move to Man City or Villa.

Boro finishing top 7, says Stewy .
Yes we are dominating for periods in games but we fail to score and the table never lies.
Actions speak louder than words and we need to see some goals.
Alves and Mido should produce for us , they look good , even against a man of the match keeper.
I would like to see Emnes on the pitch please-
Southgate is a nice guy but nice guys finish last.
It would be nice if we could punch above our weight and if the players show the fighting spirit they did after WBA scored then we have a chance .

How come we only got fired up after they scored.
Should Southgate let the opposition pop one in from kick off if he cant find another way to wake our team up.

Typical BORO

Beamishboro:

Please leave now! Go and support Sunderland or Chelsea or Man City or whoever takes your fancy this particular week. You have absolutely no idea of what being a football fan is, as your comments clearly show.

Supporting Boro through thick and thin is what it is all about (and so you would be entitled to whinge and moan with the rest of us). You never, ever under any circumstances declare you may change your mind about your allegiance.

You have shown yourself up to be the epitomy of the very worst thing about modern football, the glory seeking, prawn sandwich munching know-nothing on the search for the latest bandwagon to hitch your desperate star to.

And do you want to tell us which particular billionairre is going to invest in a midtable, possibly pushing for Europe team from one of the poorer areas of the country and with little global appeal? Where will they make their money from? The at best 36,000 crowds with 50,000 shirt sales over 2-3 years or so? Extra income is generated through merchandising around the world. Boro is not a merchandisers dream!

I work in finance and although i am not an expert, perhaps having a local chairman that loves the club and has put a lot of his own cash into it is a safer bet than an asset stripping foreign owner that does not care about the club or the local area.

I assume you want Boro to emulate Liverpool and Man Utd? On the field yes that would be great, but they are two clubs that have a history and global cachet behind them. Off the field though, they are two clubs that have been bought by borrowing money from US hedge funds - pretty dodgy circumstances to find yourself in whilst US Banks are currently failing.

Basically BeamishBoro, you know nowt and I for one hope that you will soon be gracing the Mackems websites with your distinguished views. Hang on though, look where Hull are, they are doing fairly well, maybe you should think about supporting them. (sorry for the length, but this has been a difficult post to write without swearing.)

Hmmm, I'm thinking, against my better judgement I should add, of rising to Tony Black's challenge...

"Not one of can or does ever answer any of my points" (SIC)..."So why don't we debate?"

Oh what the hell, what have I got to lose. Let's see, let's take this one...

"Only a mad man punts his entire reputation on two keepers that no one rates coming out and stating that he didn't buy because there were none better on offer. What exactly does this say about peoples judgement at the club?"

Firstly, is SG punting his entire reputation? Well, let's assume for a moment we go down and he loses his job...entire reputation gone, right? Or maybe not.

The game isn't blessed with endless brilliant managers. Might not another aspiring club, for example a Crystal Palace look at SG's three years and see plenty of positives to set alongside the negative of relegation as a result of goalkeeping errors. His re-building of the team, changing a 30 something team into a 20 somthing team, profits in the transfer market, three seasons in the PL, a couple of half decent cup runs, football that is often described as attractive.

And let's face it, was it only the goalkeepers who contributed to the drop, maybe GS just got unlucky this time. I could imagine a Crystal Palace Director thinking along these lines and deciding he/she would like a bit of that. Hell, he's even got history at the club, the fans'll love me! Lo and behold, GS has a clean slate and he's off and running again.

Secondly, is it true to say that no-one rates these two keepers. Well, erm, no. I, for example, rate them quite highly. OK, I admit that doesn't add up to much, what do I know. But then it's also true to say that a number of people outside the club, but inside football rate these two keepers as well. Jones after all is an international, even if it is only for Australia (he can hardly be blamed for that, he had little control over the matter). And I think I'm right in saying Turnbull has represented England at youth level, and I've certainly heard him described by people within the game (again outside of the club) as "highly rated". So technically it is clear that Tony's statement "no-one rates" is emphatically wrong on this occasion...sorry.

So..."what exactly does this say about peoples judgement at the club?"...well, I'd say that it says that their judgement differs from Tony's...and I for one am hugely grateful for this!

There, do I feel better now?...now don't even get me started on Beamish Bob!!

TB,

That's the good thing about debate, it soon becomes to and fro, so thank you for responding.

I'll take a teeny weeny issue with your statement that "I don't do it in an offensive way". Suggesting that "only a madman would..." is inferring that GS is a madman, which is just a little offensive. I'm sure he won't lose too much sleep about it though.

Of course, I'm not asking you to go back on what you said. On the goalkeeper situation, it's clearly a gamble, and naturally the insurance policy you suggest was an alternative option. But a career defining ("entire reputation") gamble...I suspect not.

If it comes off and one of the two does a 'Ben Foster' or the two kids from Man City (Hart & Schmeichel?) then he's a managerial genius. Long shot yes. My point refers to the worst case scenario - it's a complete and utter disaster and they both perform like lemons, we go down and he loses his job.

He's young enough and has enough brownie points behind him to be given another chance. There's probably 20 or more aspiring clubs who could be the next big thing who would be happy to give him another chance. Even Robson was given other chances, several times.

If he's on his second chance, or his third chance then the scale of the gamble becomes bigger, but right now, from a reputation perspective, he has very little to lose. Besides which, who's to say the insurance policy couldn't have a mare!

Lack of judgement? Inexperience? Well last year a very experienced manager called Erikson (one of your favourites I seem to recall) made a similar judgement and decided to run with two untried kids. So if GS is guilty of showing lack of judgement at least he is emulating those of greater experience. Mind you, Erikson's lot won nowt and he lost his job! It's a risk, but not so big I think.

Still, nice to hear you are a nice man, and inoffensive too. I'll try not to take things so literally in future!

I think we should sign off now and let someone else have a turn.

Forza Italia!

This is my first posting although Ive been lurking for yonks. I feel I have to comment as someone else is using my name - and I know loads of people in the Boro although I now live in Gidgegannup Western Australia. Fortunately I have the same sentiments as my namesake (for the most part).

One of the things that strkes me about GS is that he is exceptionally articulate and he has in a short time transformed the team and seemingly the culture. Personally I thnk we are lucky to have him. Gibbo is no mug and he has seen something in him that is in my view worth taking a punt on.

We now play attractive football and the players run themselves into the ground for him. There ave been no rumours of him wanting to move on and courting clubs that are bigger than us. He is one of us. Its so obvious. I want to stick with him through thick and thin - he will get it right because he is willing to learn and he is smart and the best predictor of job success is smartness.

I was shocked, nevertheless, by Luke Young's departure and bade a fond farewell to Schwarzer. I think Turnbull has been great and the right choice of the two goalies. I also agree that the midfield is a worry. I think O'Neil has been really good this season and I like Digard.

What we lack is a guy who can see things the others can't. The reverse pass the unexpected dummy etc etc. Let's face it these blokes are hard to find and they cost lots. Rocky was patchy and at times a liability. Juninho was the best player I have ever seen in a Boro shirt and I have been an avid fan for 45 years. Souness comes close in terms of his influence and funnily enough I thought Bobby Murdoch and Robbo were sublime (John Hickton and Dickie Rooks were my boyhood heros however). Julio's form seems to go up an down and he possibly needs to work to his pace (sorry Julio)

In short we have to get real - we are a small club in Europe. We have limited resources and we have done brilliantly in the last 15 years. This is not to say we shouldnt aim higher nor should we shirk when criticism is due.

The crowd are the 12th man - but for which side? We can be miserable so and sos at times. My bugbear is that we get on the backs of the players and the manager too soon when its not warranted. These are young lads trying their best. Nobody deliberately gives a bad pass or scuffs a shot.

At present at least everyone seems to want to play for us (Mido blows hot and cold admittedly) - did Rava, Boksic, Emerson, Yakubu really give a toss? I cant remember us having a better squad all round. Personally I am optimistic but prepare for the worst (untyical boro), which I think is better than being pessimistic while expecting the best (typical boro).

Terry Venables said a very insightful thing on Setanta the other day - "Sometimes you can be so scared of dying you don't enjoy living". Let's give it a right good go and bugger the short term consequences - at least we are not Newcastle or Spurs (or Leeds for that matter).

So, lets get behind the lads and let them know we are 100% on their side as long as they give 100%. Easy for me to say living so far away eh? Well, I came back for all three lost cup finals in the 90's - you all have to thank me for not coming to the one we won - if I'd come we'd have lost - and I only gave up my season ticket in 2000 (I ve been in oz 24 yrs) cos I got married -

Known as the GidgeGadgie from now on

**AV writes: Good first post GidgeGadgie. Welcome aboard.

In the age of double figure point deductions for clubs going into administration, I think a lot of Boro fans should recognise exactly what the Chairman is trying to achieve with his re modelled business plan.

For the first time in many years the club are attempting to "live within their means". In previous seasons, the club has needed a cheque of over 10 Million pounds per year from the Chairman's personal wealth, to pay for the superstar player's transfer fees & wages, as demanded by Southgate's two predecessors.

As the "credit crunch" progresses here & abroad, it is prudent for the people who run the club to strive for an environment where investment outside of the annually generated profit is not needed.

As has been alluded to by other posters, I suspect that the managers hands are tied somewhat by purse strings heavily controlled from the boardroom. If he was to suggest buying a 30-odd year old Gascoigne or Boksic nowadays, I suspect he may be told where to go rather sharply!!

The expectations of some of the posters on here do sometimes leave me aghast. How I winced, when after two games this season, people were predicting top six finishes. Yes, that would be the same top six finish being chased by Man City & their £32m pound forward. The same places Martin O Neill is looking towards, having spent over £30m this summer, as well as turning down a bid in excess of 15 Million for a player who cost the club peanuts & obviously wanted to leave. A reality check may be well advised for some who offer their thoughts on these pages.

Did any of us honestly expect a team with an average age in the early twenties to be the model of consistency?

I'm sure the plan formed by the club was for a younger, talented, hungry squad to be built then given time to develop into a successful team. We laughed at the barcodes up the road, when they booed Mr Allardyce for not turning their average team into world beaters within four months. Let us all allow this team to play together until xmas & hopefully improve while gaining results.

If, as some of us suspect, we need to add an extra midfielder (& possibly a striker) to the squad in the transfer window, then so be it. I have faith that the club will do that, if required.

Above all, I refuse to believe it is possible for a team to have a second game in any one season where they have 27 attempts at goal but draw a blank !!

Bob you are too polite, TB is a fool and his ravings bore the crap out of all of us. He wouldn't know the difference between a corner flag and a corner shop

ps I'm a nice guy too

**AV writes: NIce guys as you all are, I think it is time to ease up on the personal stuff. Let's not spoil an interesting debate by playing the man instead of the ball.

Matt

It is highly unlkely to miss 27 chances and draw a blank again. To miss gilt edged chances and then implode is achievable and just to prove it is no fluke we can do it at will.

The debate is largely about what to do to get points on the board without going back to dreadful football - and we havent got the players to do dogged and dull. Looking at who we let go during the summer is irrelevant because we were giving goals and points away when they were here.

Gate will be judged on the basis that he will have turned it round or not. Some people think he doesnt have the skills, others think it is a matter of time. All of us want him to do it.

It is clear that the majority view in here is against me, but I note that it isn't unanimous.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say. So, so far my view holds more water than the majority view as the league table doesn't lie, as it didn't lie last year.

Time will tell and I agree that it's early days, but no one can deny that with so few games gone we are allready talking about a must win game against Wigan which isn't very good, is it ?

Then we have some very, very tough games and if we lose the next three we are in deep touble.

Vic, I fully understand your point of view and where you coming from as you are deep rooted fan, although I do take issue with the fact that you only put up topics that you agree with as I don't think this is fair.

Given the choice of a more rich Gibson or a foreign investor I'd take the more rich Gibson every day of the week for all the reasons that you state. But as he's not on the cards we will just float about and simply exist because Gibson has done all he can and can't do anymore.

So although I again say that I fully understand where you're coming from, for me personally it's not enough and I would like to go to another Eindhoven before I die as it was simply amazing.

My point of view is simply that with the likes of GS and the limited money that Gibson provides that we will probably not seen another Eindhoven for some time.

But like I've said before, unlike most of the people in here, I could quite easily be wrong and I absolutely look forward to being proved wrong at the end of the season.

This doesn't make me Schitzo, a fool and idiot or a raving lunatic. It just makes me part of the minority view, that's all.

TB

Some of the last few posts on here are drifting into favourite territory and there are rich discussion pickings on the matter of "club or money" - or however way you wish to view it.

So, Andy (The Hague) wherever you are these days - tighten your seat belt chum! It’s time for a bit of a rant! It’s been a while!

If you're interested and have the patience, I'd like to refer you to the last blog I posted on Boro Banter.

http://borobanter.gazettelive.co.uk/2008/09/boro-in-crisis-no-way-things-c.html

Yes, it majored on the barcodes - but only as an exemplar of the destructive forces at play in Premier League Football and, I believe, serves as a "heads-up" to those (and there are tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands) of us who have a personal dilemma about the future of football in this country.

AV has touched on it in his post-script to that very nice man, Tony Black.

Alleycat has more than hinted at it and I can see parallel influences between what caused the current global economic collapse and what's happening in our domestic football.

Because the people who have the most to gain are the people driving the change!

And the REALLY annoying thing is that many, if not all of them, have come in from outside of the game to exploit it. And many of them have come in from outside of the country to exploit it! (I’m not focusing on the legions of foreign players, by the way – although if you add them back into the equation, it does make you wonder if the only British bit left might be location!)

They aren’t interested in the consequences for communities or for individuals, for heritage or for tradition - or even for nationality or even stability. Their interest is in the growth of their own personal wealth, power and ambition. Football, English Football, is their latest vehicle to take them global - to milk the millions, no, the billions, of people around the world who will, collectively, put their hands into their respective pockets and pay the TV networks or the merchandising outlets for a distant dream. The people driving and using the Premier League aren’t concerned that there are others who object to “their” football heritage being pimped around the globe.

Their drive is wealth, influence and power. And absolutely NO regard is paid to the disadvantages, inconvenience, rising costs or social exclusions of those in the game’s homeland.

I can’t begin to imagine how ordinary Iraqi’s feel!!!

I have misgivings about the extent to which the globalisation of the Premier League is in “the common good”. Hundreds of thousands of people up and down the country also have misgivings. People abroad can also see what's happening and have misgivings, Platini and Blatter have misgivings. And I'm sure there are a great number of people in positions of authority in smaller or minor clubs who are sitting on their hands because although they recognise the dangers, at present, they're adopting an "I'm alright Jack" mentality. However, It seems to me that some football club owners and the people they employ are like those money-incentivised middle level executives and managers in the now-failed banks who encouraged the “small” people to invest in the future to a point where the house of cards was bound to collapse - as AV says - "unsustainable". But then, like Mike Ashley, walk away and leave a bloody mess behind them.

These guys are playing with a British social institution and turning it into an over-the-top vulgar American-style “esportainment” vehicle (sorry, “product”).

I don't have a problem with wealth-creation, per se - provided the bulk of it is put back into society. But I DO have a problem with too much power in the "wrong" hands, the exploitation of communities, heritage and unregulated pursuit of unsustainable EXCESS built on sentiment of greed and a mortgaged future. (In ANY walk of life – not just football!)

That's what got us into the current economic predicament!

I don’t believe it will happen to Boro. But because Boro doesn't exist in isolation. We depend on others to provide the competition and there are those within the system in which Boro and others are operating who ARE pursuing excess. So it's possible that, despite Steve Gibson's relative prudence, like Northern Rock, HBOS and Bradford & Bingley, Boro could get sucked in by undercurrents generated by a tsunami of excess should they try to hard to cling to the tails of the likes of Manchelarsepool. But regrettably, that's who we have to play! And those four will be joined by further deep pocket diggers before reconstruction of the Premier League is over – one way or another.

For all the money that's swimming around in the game these days, are we really any better off in terms of the fare that football serves us up by comparison with the days when the likes of Denis Law and John Charles were changing clubs for £100K - world record fees in their day? Now, footballers not worthy of lacing their boots, are paid that in less than a month and a few in less than a week!! That also is excess!

I wish they'd all just go away and leave the next tier down to get back to playing football on a more level playing field.

Fingers crossed - maybe they will!

Meanwhile, football supporters up and down the country are considering whether they like it or not. I’ve spoken in recent times to a number of people who are simply fed up with the way the game has moved. Reasons given for non-renewal of season tickets or complete non-attendance have been (in no particular order):

• Ridiculous and obscene amounts of money being paid to and between clubs for footballers.

• TV networks dictating match days and times to satisfy foreign viewing schedules.

• Reduced opportunity for any sporting glory for teams outside of the highly-financed top tier and therefore,

• The league and cup competitions being less of a competitive spectacle than they have been historically. (With a few exceptions, the same teams tend to win things or come close, time and time again.)
• The “lesser” competitions being treated disdainfully and disrespectfully by the top clubs by either non-participation or fielding second-string teams from highly-resourced squads (and still able to make better progress than full-strength lesser teams in the same league!).

• Cost of match tickets – major family expense to follow live football

• Match entertainment no better than it was many years ago despite huge influx of money. Sure it’s faster and possibly more skillful, but is no more of a competitive spectacle than it ever was – despite the TV marketing hype, which is almost entirely centred on the big four globally-marketable clubs anyway!

• General feeling of it’s not as good value for money as it was. (I’ve had comments like, “It’s become boring!”)

• Profiteering throughout the game - £1.60 for a cup of coffee you’d make at home for less than 5p!

• A sense of helplessness with the have/ have-not divide. “What’s the point turning up. Boro are never going to win anything when to do so you have to spend ludicrous amounts of money to get players good enough to compete with them! It hurts too much!”

• Increasingly being tailored to suit the “business economy”. The ordinary punter is being priced out. Corporate hospitality and advertising is probably the most lucrative source of income for clubs.

• Crowds seen to be being used as props by the TV networks. Only necessary to create noise and give sense of popular participation. If crowds dwindled far enough, it’s been suggested that canned crowds would be substituted – if they haven’t been already on some occasions or some technical enhancement to falsely create a sense of more excitement than there actually is/ was. The lack of atmosphere at some of our grounds sometimes these days is almost embarrassing!

The list is not exhaustive, but you have to wonder if another “product” had as many flaws in it, would you buy it? Of course, not all of the above matter to everyone to the same extent and some may not matter at all. And that’s what keeps those who happen along, happening along. But evidence supports the contention that domestic consumers are becoming more critical.

Right! That’s it! Even I’ve had enough! (Writing that is. I’ll still be at the Chelsea match, hoping against all the odds that Boro will provide a little miracle on the day!)

Richard - I very much enjoyed your "rant" from 11.16pm and agree with much of it. It wasn't there when I started to type a post I've just sent down the line, but that is probably a function of my typing speed and the fact that I have been keeping one eye on the TV and dealing with other interruptions.

Surely at 2am (here) there must be some Boro fans in Peru, or New Zealand, sharpening their keyboard skills. Or as Zebedee used to say, "Time for bed".

Defour Watch: - I took in the Standard Liege UEFA Cup game against The Toffees to have a look at alleged Boro target Defour again.

His play didn’t disappoint – a ‘Duracell Bunny’ of a midfielder who could hold the ball, pass and shoot with a good turn of pace who ran the midfield for most of the game. You could see why he is their captain, has a load of full caps already and is Belgian footballer of the year.

You could also see that he is still a callow twenty year old. He was booked, early in the game, for remonstrating with the ref. in a way that many would have red carded and less than a minute later hacked down an Everton player from behind. With a less lenient ref. he could have left his side without its captain and midfield general less than ten minutes into a key game for their season.

The whole of the Standard midfield is impressive and David Mills should also take a look at Axel Witsel – probably a better passer than Defour and with the same energy who took his goal so well, and right winger Dalmat – everything that Boro have lacked in that position for several seasons.

The problem with all three will be luring them away from Standard to Boro.

They are playing in a team that are national Champions, which missed out on the Champs League group stage by a whisker and will surely still be topping their UEFA Group by Christmas with a good chance of going all the way.

I know the Prem has its attractions but what would make any of the three – especially Defour who is bound to have attracted the attention of much bigger clubs – view Boro as a step forward, particularly if our league position hasn’t picked up by then.

Pat Mc - Great post I agree with everything you say.

Richard - another great post, you'll have AV looking over his shoulder if you keep up that level of post!

I for one think we're extremely lucky to have SG as owner/chairman of Boro, he's not above critisism, in fact he got plenty of it the summer before last and he responded, a new club management structure, improved PR, creative pricing and as ever the backing of the manager in the transfer market.

However the biggest asset he gives the club is stability, every manager he has employed he has given them time to build a team and to deliver success and so far they all have delivered success.

My only worry is that SG isn't immortal!

Forever Dormo,

for me the Gibson issue isn't one of wanting him "OUT" because he's a bad chairman.

I have said time and time again in here that he should be given the freedom of the town for what he's done and that he's done more to put Boro on the map and to regenerate the town more than any politician has or could ever do.

As a man, as a chairman and as a fan he's been truly first class and fully deserves an MBE / OBE / Knighthood.

He's a truly class act and I don't have anything bad to say against him.

However, my contention is merely this, and although I don't agree with what the Birmingham chairman said about the club I do whole heartidly agree with the sentiment.

My contention is that Gibson doesn't have the money to take us to the next level, and whilst I fully understand all the points Vic and you all have clearly stated about foreign momey it's sustainability, the fact of the matter is that it's out there and we ain't got it. So the rest will kick on to places that we simply cannot afford to go.

Whilst I would dearly love a lifelong fan and not some rich Arab who has just learnt of the clubs existance, like the guys who just bought Man City, how are we ever going to compete with the other clubs that go down that line when we don't ?

My personal view is that we have to get it if the preffered option of a wealthier Gibson is not available.

I went to Eindhoven and I had the time of my life, even though we lost. What an amazing ride and day that was.

I want that again and all I merely suggest is that with the current state of affairs of the billionaire club owners invading the Premiership, whilst we remain as we are the likes of Eindhoven will probably never come again and that for me as a fan is simply not acceptable.

Why do we bother to sack managers ? Because they are either bad or because they have been in the job long enough and done what they can. So we get someone else in who has the credentials to take us to the next level.

We accept that this is how it is for managers and coaching staff e.t.c., so why is the chairman any different ?

TB

I never called for any heads to roll in any prior posts as with a win today, and let's bloody hope so, we can shoot back up the table.

It is early days and every post prior to this topic I have been at pains to say so.

This was a specific topic about GS first
100 games in charge and it asked if it was a the dawn of a new era and so hence my answers.

No reason at all why we can't win today. Hopefully the recent losses and the slowly mounting pressure will galvanise the team and managemnt into producing what we all know we can.

With a great win here we then go onto the Chelsea game full of confidence and all guns blazing.

Boro win 2-1. Alves to score both.

COME ON !

TB

Richard - not resident overseas, just awake at some ungodly hours, and still in the same timezone! I spent the weekend getting severely rained on in Hutton le Hole, whilst listening to the commentary on BBC Tees (Friday night was frigid as well, but at least the sun came out today before we returned home). The things you have to do to keep the wife happy.

What a good result!

I had received a text message a couple of days ago: "Are you having strange unaccountable desires to go to Wigan?", from the maniac who sits next to me at the Riverside (and who has clearly built up a mountain of brownie points to be able to go the game). Told him I had agreed to go camping. He wondered whether there might be some nice camp sites near Wigan so that two birds could be killed by the same stone. In short - no! So he went on his own.

Imagine the gloating text message I received after the game. I think I recently suggested I'd be happy with a jammy one-nil win, with a goal off the ref's backside. Well, one-nil at Wigan is just fine. And suddenly the world looks so much sunnier.

Next week I will be back at the Riverside and there are only about 4 more weeks to go before the camping season ends and full attention can be given to the footie. It is a real bind travelling back to camp after a home game when the game has not gone well. The trip back to a site near Ayr, when we had thrown away a two-goal lead in injury time against Fulham, was a particularly grim one.

So we have won again. Hopefully no more "we have turned the corners" and no more "on this basis Europe is not out of the questions". Time for a bit of realism. Hopefully a rest from the "Sack the Board, we are going downs".

I haven't yet seen the game or the highlights but it sounded like a good rearguard action, a welcome clean sheet, and a forward scoring a goal. That is a good start and whatever the result against a very strong Chelsea team next week, I feel much better about our finishing somewhere near the middle of the table at the end of the season. Gentle good progress would be fine by me.

And it's also beginning to look as though Turnbull might well have it in him to be a good keeper at the top level. It was a gamble and it is still early days, of course, but I am sure Gareth Southgate would be happy to see a line of several thousand supporters all waiting their turn to say "Sorry". We would all be delighted to see one of our own between the sticks, if he proves good enough.

That glass is looking suspiciously half full again!

A.V.

I am entering the fray a little bit late I fear, a lot of what I would have liked to have written has already been posted. In the main the debate has been polarized for or against, with some good observations in between.

Your initial question I believe was, is one hundred games too soon to judge Mr Southgate's performance, but has not GS himself asked us to judge him on this season, if so that is what we will have to do.

As my previous posts have indicated I was not in favour of the appointment of GS, I was disappointed and thought that the time was ripe for us to go for an experienced manager.

However with hindsight (what a wonderful gift) I realize that such a manager was unlikely to come given the restrictions that were to be imposed on the club by the Chairman, it was therefore necessary to appoint from within and GS was in the right place at the right time. Correct me if I am wrong but I had never heard GS make any statement about wanting to be a manager, yet suddenly the job was his.

Therefore we got a manager who was not even a qualified coach, not often one can be given a job and be told that one can apply for the necessary qualificatios at a later date!

That led us to two seasons of treading water, no progress in terms of league position and constantly looking over our shoulder.

In that time further restrictions have bee imposed on the manager, does he really have full control over new signings, (goal keepers for instance) I doubt it, or who should be allowed to leave, obviously not.

So GS has to be judged in terms of the conditions imposed on him.

Without making any judgemeet I see some positive signs, young players, a good work ethic, players wanting to impress.

I see negative signs as well, playing "name" players when they are not performing, playing individuals out of position in order to keep "names" in the team, naive coaching (getting oufoxed very easily by Arry and Keano) and injudicious or ridiculous substitutions (Taylor on with Walker on the bench, because he used to play midfield in the juniors).

To conclude, it would seem that the measure of success at the club now, is to simply survive in the PL and if that happens then GS will be judged successful, not by me, but by the Chairman, who appointed him on the first place.

Glad to see Stewie in the full Eng-er-lund squad again.

In the papers this morning, I see no hint of the irony that Capello has picked Heskey for the squad but has failed to promote the one of the men who subdued him so completely on Saturday - Wheats - from the U21s.

Glad also to see that Digard is representing France at U21.

But, equally, will be even more pleased when we get them back fit to play for Boro.

Just going back to people being against gibbo, the cutting back on wages and bringing financial stability in the current climate was a must.

A football club should be self sufficient, just look at gretna green in scotland, they relied on a cash happy chairman and now they cease to exist. The platforms being laid to prevent that, or a repeat of 1986 when we were nearly no more.

Gibbo is central to the future and we should trust him, he is widely considered one of the best chairmen for good reason. I agree with us trying to build a young team and utilise our academy, but we need one or two experienced campaigners come january, they might just help eliminate some of the basic errors we make, and help with the youngsters development.

Wayne Bridge and either Bullard or Nolan should be attainable and just round the squad off. Rob Green would also be a good buy.