Downing Agent Arrested In Fraud Probe

Ste Mac wrote...

Howee then AV, out with it. You know you want to.

**AV writes: I can't. It is a massive story no one else has and I can't say anything until the paper is out. Can't be tipping off other media organisations. It's worth waiting for.

Posted by: Ste Mac  | September 3, 2008 10:25 AM

the know-it-all wrote...

Its about the fact Boro rejected an offer from Liverpool on deadline day for Downing.

Deal was worth around £14m

**AV writes: Nope. We'd already written that off so that would be a damp squib.

Posted by: the know-it-all  | September 3, 2008 10:37 AM

Red & White Indian wrote...

um.. Mido's on (hunger?) strike....or.... we rejected/accepted an offer from a Sovereign wealth fund?

Posted by: Red & White Indian  | September 3, 2008 10:59 AM

chris wrote...

have we signed berbatov?

Posted by: chris  | September 3, 2008 11:02 AM

Mart wrote...

Is it to do with Stuart Downings ex agent?

Posted by: Mart  | September 3, 2008 11:12 AM

john sully wrote...

gaizka mendieta will play for boro for free!!! i'm right, aren't i????

Posted by: john sully  | September 3, 2008 11:21 AM

Alex wrote...

Is Kevin Keegan gonna become our new boot cleaner to give the academy kids more time to refine their skills?????

Posted by: Alex  | September 3, 2008 11:24 AM

Neil (USA) wrote...

Av, how am I supposed to concentrate at work?

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | September 3, 2008 11:35 AM

Libbins wrote...

Hardly 'DYNAMITE' is it, Anthony?

**AV writes: Don't you think so? Given the anger generated in January when Elliott went so public in a war of words with Steve Gibson over not just the future of our brightest young player for a generation but also over the way the transfer was being conducted then I think the fact that the agent is later arrested is a massive story.

Think about the controversy in recent years over agents - the touting of Nathan Porritt, the Panorama story that flailed around the story without quite nailing it, the dawn raids on Portsmouth and Birmingham, the City of London probe that pointed the finger of suspicion at Zahavi and Mckay... this is an issue central to the probity and integrity of the game at a time when cash is swishing around like never before.

Maybe it is just me being sanctimonious but I think people who connive to take money out of the game without making any contribution are leeches. The entire sleazy business needs to be investiagted from top to bottom, the rogues removed and banged up and the whole operation regulated and made transparent.

The fact that a club and the FA - and most importantly A PLAYER - appear to have co-operated in following a complaint could well be very signfiicant in that.

On a more local level I believe Elliott was a massive distraction for Stewie (and the club) in January and I do not take gladly to someone so openly trying to engineer the exit of a key asset in such a brass-necked way when they stand to benefit personally. It stinks.

If this can help shed some light on the way agents work, and if in doing so Boro can prtect themselves and their players then I am delighted and proud that the club are taking a stand and not just turning a blind eye.

Posted by: Libbins  | September 3, 2008 11:39 AM

Teesside Based Lurking Mag wrote...

THIS IS A SHOCKING STATE OF AFFAIRS.
You smoggies cant help but be attracted to conroversy can you. :D

Posted by: Teesside Based Lurking Mag  | September 3, 2008 11:50 AM

Ged wrote...

You've certainly built this one up....hope it lives up to your hype

Posted by: Ged  | September 3, 2008 11:50 AM

Richard wrote...

Vic,

How coincidental/serendipitous is this? I've just, a few minutes ago, posted a blog on Boro Banter discussing the type of people involved in and being attracted to the game of football at the higherst club level - and now you've turned this up?

More fuel to the fire! And there's no smoke without it!

Tip of the iceberg mate!

Posted by: Richard  | September 3, 2008 11:51 AM

Teesside Based Lurking Mag wrote...

THIS IS A SHOCKING STATE OF AFFAIRS.
You smoggies cant help but be attracted to controversy can you. :D

Posted by: Teesside Based Lurking Mag  | September 3, 2008 11:52 AM

PinkPonce wrote...

I got all excited about this?...

Exclusive: Agent may or may not have been a bit naughty.

In other news, there may or may not be a god.

Posted by: PinkPonce  | September 3, 2008 11:55 AM

crab.man wrote...

"Football agent may be a bit dodgy". Where's the news there then?

AV, think you've been in the boro bubble a bit too long and need to get yourself on holiday, mate.

Posted by: crab.man  | September 3, 2008 11:56 AM

BLT wrote...

Another reason to be proud of our club in a week when so many other clubs are abandoning all principles for money.

Gibbo has a long history of chasing agents who he thinks are not playing straight and no doubt we have lost out on good players because of it but I'd rather that than be implicated by dealing with these sharks.

Posted by: BLT  | September 3, 2008 12:26 PM

trod wrote...

PinkPonce, I know it's not exactly news to have agents seen in an unsavoury light but it is news for one to actually be arrested as part of an investigation.

Posted by: trod  | September 3, 2008 12:28 PM

Neil M wrote...

This is great news.

In January I added Elliott to my Boro 'hate list' for trying to get our best player out of the club. He would have made a fortune if Stewie had gone. God knows how much he has already made out of the club.

I despise these people.

Posted by: Neil M  | September 3, 2008 12:31 PM

Cirencester Smoggie wrote...

Well lets hope that the Police and CPS has sufficient evidence to convict him. He made my, and I suspect most football fans (not just Boro), blood boil when he was on Sky spouting about doing this and that.

What goes around comes around

Posted by: Cirencester Smoggie  | September 3, 2008 1:02 PM

Craig N wrote...

It always amazes me that players are stupid enough to put their money and their careers in the hands of totally unqualified chancers.

We are told that football transfers are unbelievably complex with tax and bonuses and image rights and all kninds of clauses.

So why don't they get a specialist contracts lawyer or tax advisor and pay a flat fee rather than some bloke who used to be a tyre fitter or plumber and give them 20% or everything? It's crazy.

Why don't they just use the PFA who do it for peanust and know all the ins and outs?

Is it an ego thing? They have to be seen to have an entourage? Even the teenagers who have never played a first team game? Its madness.

It should be an FA and FIFA rule that clubs should NEVER pay an agent and say that points will be docked if they do.

If players want an agent they should have to pay and get one allocated from an FA/PFA list, like legal aid. No question of vested interests then, just a one off job for a set fee.

Posted by: Craig N  | September 3, 2008 1:04 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Loved your response to Libbins, above.

Players have the option of being represented in negotiations by a PFA rep who presumably knows the ropes, by a lawyer and/or accountant, by an agent or they could (as some have) simply represent themselves.

Most "professional" advisors are paid fees calculated by an hourly rate which, taking into the sort of wages commanded by Premier League footballers, would amount to very small beer indeed. The "professional" advisor would also owe his client a professional duty - to do what is in the client's interests not the advisor's.

But we hear stories of some agents seeking to be paid BY THE CLUB not the player for whom is supposed to be acting. You cannot have two paymasters without divided loyalties. What training or exams do Agents have to pass? Who tests their abililty? A murky area indeed.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 3, 2008 1:06 PM

David Morrison wrote...

I am all for players having agents but for me not on the football side. If a player wants to endorse his image through foto shoots and glitzy events then granted an agent or PR rep would be the way to go, however negotiating a multi million pound contract, no chance.

The main reason football agents are in the grey light is surely because the guvorning bodies allow it to happen. maybe because the agents pay them and so on and so on. every one takes a slice of the pie.

Look at the Tevez saga, surely a club with say no influence at the FA would have found themselves docked points and relegated like West Ham should have been? Big clubs won't crack down on agents because they get the biggest benefit.

Football agents live off players' egos and blatant stupidity. If he is caught lets say in an awkward situation, he wont call his manager or a team mate it will be his agent who gets him out pretty quick and its his agent that tells Max Clifford not to print the story when it comes out.

Football makes so much money that these people will never be thrown out of the game because they make so much money for companies and people we know nothing about. Why do you think the BBC didn't say who they had caught with the bungs? Why havent they brought to light what has been going on for years and years? There is to much to lose thats why and to much money to be made by being part of it. Would the BBC get Mot D if they upset the applecart?

Agents are middlemen covering up a far bigger murkier world and for us as fans they bleed the game dry but we will never get justice and we will never ever no what goes on simple as that......

Posted by: David Morrison  | September 3, 2008 5:36 PM

allycat wrote...

Spot on comments by Craig N and Forever Dormo. It would appear that all an agent does is whisper in the ear of footballers who are generally pretty naive in the world of business and to spread paranoia about how the player is being shafted by all concerned. The only guy on the side of the player being the agent himself. (Think Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings - the guy that was manipulating Yosser Hughes).

Well done to Stewie for not only getting shot of Elliot, but also for taking the matter further. Players should just get a lawyer and pay them an hourly rate when required. Compared to agents, solicitors are less expensive and more reliable and its not often that you can say that about a lawyer.

P.S well done Gibbo for not bending over for the agents.

Posted by: allycat  | September 3, 2008 5:53 PM

Geoff wrote...

yet again agents causing hassle, surely its time too get rid of them once and for all. They take everything out and put back nothing. They must be like having a dog and barking yourself. I mean they take a percentage of the fee and a percentage of the wages, not a bad job if you can get it.

Posted by: Geoff  | September 3, 2008 7:52 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Teesside Based Lurking Mag

Loved your ironic comment in the light of circumstances at Sid James' Park. I presume that was the point, trying to wind us up?

You know, with every new revelation that comes out of the Keegan / Wise / Ashley saga I have laughed my socks off. Yet again, the North-East's 8th biggest club implodes. Another difficult season appears to be your destiny again mate, whether the Messiah stays or not. Second coming? Nah, this is the third (and final) going!

You know - I'm convinced the Barcodes do it on purpose. Oh heck, bonnie lads, we've not been in the media for a day or two, let's whip up a storm and see if we can't get some more TV coverage! It's all part of the self-delusional lunacy in which you Geordies convince yourselves you're a big club. Have fun - I certainly am!!

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | September 3, 2008 11:47 PM

Richard wrote...

AV: I'm not sure what it says about media priorities when "Look North" can devote twenty minutes to covering a non-story outside Sid James Park, (Keegan has not been sacked and he has not resigned), yet not a mention of an arrest on suspicion of fraud of a footballing agent who possibly misrepresented an England International and who possibly sought to line his own pockets at the expense of the player and the player's Premier League club.

A club which finished 1 point and one place behind the residents of Sid James Park in season 2007-8 and who lie several places above them in the Premier League in the current season. Big club? That's what should be taken to the producer's of Look North and to the board of Newcastle United!

**AV writes: It is not a football story though is it? It is a social oddity, an example of collective emotional incontinence, a chance for the saner elements of society to gawp at those infected with a state of high agitation over what appears to be trivia. It is modern equivalent of those bits on Nationwide about teenage girls screaming until they wet themselves over the Bay City Rollers, or the goggle-box fantasists who launch campaigns to get soap stars who have been banged up released from fictional jails.

Posted by: Richard  | September 4, 2008 12:41 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

There seems to be some confusion to what the roles of ‘Agents’ are and whom they are acting on behalf of at any given time.

If a club is ‘interested’ in a player then they will approach that player’s Agent in order to help secure his services. Although this is technically in breach of the rules as they need permission from a player’s current club in order to enter into negotiations. However, it’s at this point that a player’s willingness to join a new club along with salary and other image rights are agreed upon – this is generally known as ‘unsettling’ the player.

In this case the Agent is acting on behalf of the purchasing club to secure the player and will expect to receive payment from the club once the deal goes through – although, the purchasing club will still need to persuade the player’s current club to sell by offering compensation by means of a transfer fee, which of course the player and agent expect to receive a slice of.

If this all sounds a bit murky then it’s made even worse by the ‘Agent’ simultaneously acting on behalf of the player to try and secure him the best possible contract from the purchasing club. In some cases the ‘Agent’ will be paid by the player for this role – though it’s quite usual that the purchasing club will end up paying for this ‘service’.

So it’s quite easy to see that an ‘Agent’ only makes money when either a player moves clubs or he negotiates a better contract with his existing club to stop him feeling unsettled. Also the longer the contract he achieves for the player, the higher the value of his slice – and more importantly the better the chance of the player moving for a large transfer fee in the future and gaining yet another decent slice of the fee.

So given the massive amounts of money ‘Agents’ and players stand to make by changing clubs is it any wonder that players use any means they see fit to help secure a move – sulking, crying, striking, under-performing, bogus family problems and generally making themselves unpopular with fans, team-mates and managers alike.

Yes the PFA and lawyers are able to offer all the services a player needs to ensure he isn’t badly treated – but as far as I can see an ‘Agent’ is just there to create chaos in order to inflate wages and transfer fees or unsettle players on behalf of purchasing clubs – before relieving the game of football of it’s cash.

**AV writes: And that is exactly why agents go untackled. Agents are used as flags of convenience and layers fo 'plausible deniability' by big and powerful clubs to sidestep the rules and those clubs have constantly frustrated attempt at regulation.

Sadly football is beyond the stage where it can regulate itself now and higher intervention is needed. It is a massive lucrative business that needs to be tightly controlled by law and policed just as any other sector.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | September 4, 2008 12:58 AM

Teesside Based Lurking Mag wrote...

Clive, My remark was an ironic one poking fun at my own team, Newcastle mate.

As for the blogs topic, Its hardly a club's fault that any player employs a dodgy agent is it? The good thing is that someof them are now getting found out and will be getting kicked out of football.

As for the Newcastle spat, this has been coming since that horrible little maggot Dennis Wise was appointed. Good on Keegan for speaking out about being undermined. It could be the norm in the future though, with Curbishley walking out of West Ham for more or less the same reasons as Keegan.

Enjoy your stability because if Steve Gibson is forced to sell up just for the Boro to survive in the rapidly approaching and also ridiculous "billionaires only" league, it may not last.

Posted by: Teesside Based Lurking Mag  | September 4, 2008 9:47 AM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

Where there is money to be made, especially big money, the pond life will always lurk to take advantage of weaknesses in systems or individuals, without scruples or consideration of after effects.

That is a sad fact of life. It is the built in systems and procedures put in place by the relevant governing bodies that should filter out such low life and hence protect both 'buyer and seller' against exploitation.

Surely these agents have to be accountable? Their actions fully transparent?

If not, it takes brave men like Steve Gibson to take them on, and brave players like Stewy Downing to expose them. If there were more individuals of the substance of Gibbo and Stewy then these sharks would soon be eradicated for good.

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | September 4, 2008 3:51 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

AV – with regard to your reply to Werdermouth’s post of 12.58am:
“Sadly football is beyond the stage where it can regulate itself now and
higher intervention is needed. It is a massive lucrative business that
needs to be tightly controlled by law…..�

A few things arise, here. Firstly many of the clubs are public companies with quoted shares and are therefore already subject to Company Law in England & Wales. That is why for some clubs, if a change in the structure of the club is expected, an announcement is made first through the Stock Exchange. You might remember some years ago some clubs proudly announced they were “going public� but since that involves a number of obligations including filing detailed accounts and other issues arising out of the rules on shares dealing and because of the fact that most of the clubs are not profitable by any sensible definition, the “public� route may not now be as popular as it was.

Incidentally, it had occurred to me that the way some clubs have been run, effectively at a loss for year after year, and with little prospect of change, then if they are not privately owned, some directors might find themselves at risk of being investigated for trading with their clubs insolvent.

Nottingham Forest were, interestingly, owned as a partnership if I remember correctly, until not so long ago, though I believe it is now a limited company.

Secondly, the football “industry� would not be the first to have tried self-regulation only, subsequently, to have found itself regulated by an appropriate authority or watchdog (in fact it might be a good idea if there were a Watchdog to look after the various watchdogs, there are so many “Off-This� and “Off-Thats�). Football is a large and lucrative business. But it is still completely dwarfed by, say, the Financial Services sector which is now regulated and policed, with substantial penalties for breaches of the rules. Or completely dwarfed by the Stock Exchange (and in the USA by the SEC which doesn’t muck about in the cases of abuse there). In other words, however rich and powerful the biggest clubs might be, there are bigger and richer organisations in other industries who still find that a powerful regulatory authority is mightier than they are, and able to police the rules. Insider trading isn’t allowed now but might have been very common a few decades ago.

Thirdly, of course, the good old criminal law still applies. Fraud is still fraud. Dishonestly obtaining a pecuniary advantage has been an offence for 40 years etc (eg a club or a player providing a forged or fraudulently obtained birth certificate or passport to increase the value of a player on his subsequent sale - by knocking a few years off his age).

So many years ago SwindonTown were effectively relegated 2 divisions by the football authorities for misrepresenting pay details for a player in transfer negotiations so that, when the transfer fee was in dispute and to be decided by Tribunal, a lower transfer fee would be thought appropriate. Presumably a player getting £30K a week might be expected to have a certain value, but if it had been known he was really getting £60K a week because half was being paid “under the counter� his real valuation would have been much higher. I recall that was dealt with “in house� by the football authorities, but there is no reason why the criminal law shouldn’t have applied there. It is fraud on the other club.

Frequently the best way of “getting� crooks is the Inland Revenue way. Al Capone wasn’t caught for his criminal offending, the story (admittedly in the USA) goes, but after a tax investigation. I have a mate who used to work for the Revenue. He tells me when they go for someone, their bite is worse than a pitbull terrier. False accounting (“one set of books for me, another for the taxman� for example, although it could be much simpler than that) remains a criminal offence.

If the Stock Exchanges, with so much money changing hands that it must be a massive temptation to illegal dealings, can be regulated, so can football. You would, of course need a good Rugby follower to sit in judgement, but that can be arranged.

Maybe you would have to set a Liverpool fraud investigator loose on the Manchester Clubs’ books and vice versa (obviously I use this only by way of illustration because, like me, you will all probably realise that these are, after all, honourable clubs).

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 4, 2008 6:45 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

We should enjoy and revel in the fact that Boro in general and Steve Gibson in particular are a shining light in what is fast becoming a sordid, murky and distinctly distateful "loadsamoney" league.

We are enjoying our own young lads breaking into the England set up let alone the Boro 1st team. We have an honest and up and coming young English Manager being given total support and are now challenging those who endeavour to besmirch the game we all love.

Meanwhile we can sit back and watch the "loadsamoney" brigade throwing themselves at foreign temporary quick bucks like lemmings off a cliff. The bubbles are starting to burst and what was once the stalwart of the virtues Boro now symbolise, West Ham Utd are now looking at their third manager in as many years when they were once renowned for going decades with the same man in charge and boasted the likes of Martin Peters, Bobby Moores, Geoff Hursts, Clyde Bests and Trevor Brookings of their era.

The FA probably don't appreciate it now but Boro are providing the stability and foundation for the future of English football. Once again stand up and take a bow Steve Gibson.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 4, 2008 7:41 PM

Jarkko wrote...

So "king" Kevin has gone. It's great to be red instead of black and white.

Boro are run like a football club must be run. No hammers' or skunks' way - thank God!

Up the Boro!

Posted by: Jarkko  | September 4, 2008 8:23 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Lurking Mag

Good on you mate for being able to laugh at the chaos at NUFC. It must be very hard for you when all Smoggies and Mackems are rejoicing at yet more self-inflicted lunacy. And I mean that sincerely, I would hate it to happen at Boro.

To a very large extent what's happened at Toon was very predictable. People say you couldn't write the script, but actually you could on this one. "Keegan resigns shock" - well, we didn't see that one coming. Again. Add a Dennis Wise, light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance till the inevitable firework goes off. Having said all that, I do feel sorry for Keegan (but not for the club, obviously!)- he's a decent man who's been badly treated.

Your comment about Gibbo possibly having to sell one day is very apt. I join fellow Boro fans on the previous thread in praising and celebrating the stability and order Gibbo has brought, and the sane long-term strategy which has seen him give Southgate time to turn round the club. No directors of football at Boro. No mad rush a la Thaksin to get shot of the manager because we finished 12th. No mad buying at incredibly inflated prices. And no truck with devious agents either.

Keith Lamb explained the philosophy again today, and makes great sense at last, when he says Gibbo won't sell out and that on the field it's 11 v 11. It makes me proud to be a Smoggie. So for the next few years I can't see Boro having to go for the foreign scheckels.

What must be even more galling for you is that Toon have a British owner who said he had the club's interest at heart. One of the fans, he said. Unlike Gibson, he doesn't seem to understand what makes the heart of a football club in its community. I don't think we'll see Toon fans unfurling "Ashley is our hero" banners this season.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | September 4, 2008 8:49 PM

Neil (Yarm) wrote...

A very apt and well timed interview by Lamby, coming right on the heels of the Elliot affair, and the "loads-a-money" dealings currently ongoing in the PL.

We know where our bread is buttered and how thick or thin we can spread it, we also know that what we have we own (or at least Gibbo does).

For the first time I have to say hats off to Lamby. It's 11 v 11 on the park he said, and how true that is.

However I do wonder how long we can go on in this league given that more and more clubs are selling their souls to foreign investors.

Posted by: Neil (Yarm)  | September 5, 2008 12:02 AM

Corydon Boro wrote...

Re Forever Dormo.
The footballing watchdog could be Offtheballincident, or better, Offside.

Also, the premier league is a circus and Sid james park can always be relied upon to provide the clowns.. I wonder if Schteve McClarensh is still interested in managing the North east's premier basket case? I doubt 'nice guy' Curbs will be offered and sadly Mary Poppins is glued to the MOTD sofa.
My money's on Sven making a premier league return..

Posted by: Corydon Boro  | September 5, 2008 12:06 AM

CroydonBoro wrote...

PS. Back to Av's original post, does anyone imagine that even if ALL agents were to be removed from the game, that the clients, sorry, customers, sorry, fans of the game will benefit? Would the money saved result in cheaper season tickets, cheaper pies, less over=priced tat in the Club shop?
Of course not.

Posted by: CroydonBoro  | September 5, 2008 12:12 AM

richardw wrote...

could it be that some agents are only interested in money and not their clients or the clubs!!!!1surely not ,, but i guess we will find out soon enough.

Posted by: richardw  | September 5, 2008 11:00 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Just got tickets for Pompy v Boro.
Cant believe Mido is injured again as he was looking good, if we get a few injuries as we always do our little squad could be up the creak and a lot of hard work will be wasted !
At least our chairman is not downing pints in a replica shirt at games I suppose .

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | September 5, 2008 11:58 AM

tim from sa wrote...

Well, agent arrested good news.

The Mags problem was inevitable with Keegan and Wise but its a shame for a club with such a big following is always in the news for the wrong reasons i didnt say big club.
One wonders about Sunderland too,they have spent very big this season and if it dosnt work ie mid table minimum there could be big problems there.

As for the prem if the powers to be cant see what is happening to the so called greatest league in world it is doomed. Some sort of curbs to this money madness has to be put in place as i can see there being no English managers left.

As for the big investors i dont think they should be aloud to be in total control of the club none of our so called top clubs belong to the Brits any more. Bleak picture i know but someone convince me i am wrong.

Posted by: tim from sa  | September 5, 2008 1:39 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Ignorant

Downing Pints? That should be the name of the latest Boro bar!

It would beat "Ricketts' Pies" or "Schwarzer's Sausage-rolls" or whatever the stupid names were when they christened the food outlets!

Pogi's Parmo Pantry? Any other offers, guys and gals?

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | September 5, 2008 2:02 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Well done Clive , I was sure that once I typed 'downing pints' that someone would spot it-
it seems we always let a late goal in so we need 2 against Pompy at least, James is in good form but I think we can shock them.
Dont forget we did the double over them last season and the only other club to do that last season was Spurs with Keane and Berbatov.
Come on BORO

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | September 5, 2008 5:06 PM