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Untypical Boro is a lively topical blog by the Evening Gazette's award winning football columnist Anthony Vickers that aims to get behind the headlines to flesh out the stories that Boro fans are talking about.

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Blunt Boro Pay Penalty

Posted by on September 20, 2008 7:48 PM | 

YOU'VE got to take your chances. It is no good creating six or eight good opportunities a game with crisp, incisive, flowing football if you don't take one or two of them - especially if the other lot create just two or three but score them... which is starting to become a very bad habit away from home.

Losing to Sunderland hurts; not just because it is a derby with all the parochial baggage of dented pride now thrown angrily in a heap in the corner where the dog is cowering, but also because they are exactly the kind of limited but industrious mid-table team that the new-look enterprising Boro were supposed to be able to pass their way through, to patiently pick apart with pace and guile, exactly the kind of team they were now supposed to be able to beat and leave burnt out behind us on the road to top half glory. That Boro have failed must be a massive reality check.

It is not a time for knee-jerk reactions or pressing panic buttons, and yes there are mitigating circumstances - a last minute reshuffle after the injury to Mido won't have helped, the squad is thin and theer are few match-changing option son the bench, you can't legislate for missed penalties, and Craig Gordon was man of the match - but it is hard to avoid some harsh realities that are stacking up.

Boro have not won an away game in the league in 2008, they repeatedly dominate away games but fail to score gilt-edged chances before wavering mentally and being swamped when the other lot wriggle off the hook and fight back, they persist in leaking costly late goals in games they have failed to close down from a position of comfort, time and again they fail to react quickly enough to opposition substitutions that change the dynamic of the game. There are plenty of positives - the football at times is a delight, there is energy and enterprise and plenty of chances are being created but unless these problems are urgently addressed this team will be condemned to another season of treading water in the depths of the bottom half.

Spot of Bother: Why isn't Alves taking penalties? Yes, Stewie had done the job since the departure of Yakubu and had done it well but when you sign a £12.7m hitman who had come within a whisker of the European Golden Boot, partly because of his dead-ball prowess, surely you give him the job? I can see the logic of sticking with the man who has the job and for not taking it off him just because he missed one, especially as rattling the bar against Stoke ultimately did not cost the game. But now? Stewie never looked like he was going to score. After his England media mauling his morale seems to have dipped. He needs to concentrate on what he does best and put this distraction aside.

Alves needs goals to boost his confidence and to step up his chase for this year's goals gong. He certainly thought he was going to take it and picked up the ball and for a second it looked like we may get a rerun of the Bernie Slaven v Gary Parkinson bust-up against Ipswich. He shouldn't need to tussle for it next time: Stewie should hand the ball over and the Brazilian must show him how it is done.

Full report to follow...

Comments (77)

tonyblack wrote...

No offence Vic, but you can't have it both ways...

You can't write articles like...

Steely Boro Pass Stoke Test

... and then go on to say,

" but also because they are exactly the kind of limited but industrious mid-table team that the new-look enterprising Boro were supposed to be able to pass their way through, to patiently pick apart with pace and guile, exactly the kind of team they were now supposed to be able to beat and leave burnt out behind us on the road to top half glory. That Boro have failed must be a massive reality check. "

Either we have turned the corner and we are a steely side that keeps going to the bitter end, killing of teams as we go or we aren't and we need a reality check.

The reality check we need is that there is something a miss on the training ground or in the teams mental approach, there simply has to be Vic. It can't be just a matter of neverending chance or bad luck that we lose so many games late on or concede so many late goals, can it ?

So if it isn't why haven't GS and co been able to cure it ? Perhaps they just don't have the foggyest of how to do it.

Poggy said we had turned the corner and you talked of a steely Boro that e.t.c. e.t.c. e.t.c.

The reality is something entirely different.

Which is it ?

Yes, I agree with you that there are mittigating circumstances and that there is no need to panic yet, but the fact of the matter remains that given that GS nailed his colours to this year being the year that he himself as being the " judge me now " year, he either has to deliver or he has to go.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 20, 2008 10:46 PM

Martin wrote...

We have been here before - just last season in fact. Our problem remains the same and that is sticking the ball in the back of the net. Its that simple. I cannot see anything else wrong with how we play, except maybe Downing needs to stop taking penalties.

Posted by: Martin  | September 21, 2008 12:45 AM

smoggy plumm wrote...

Yet another game we totally dominate and come away with nothing. It's the same old story and it doesnt matter who pulls on a boro shirt we suffer the same frailties again and again. What makes it worse is blunderland only had 2 chances the whole match and score from both of them. yet we create a bag full of chances and miss every one.

Don't get me wrong I'm a Stewie Downing fan but its time to give the responsabilty for taking penalties to a striker. Its time to stop the rot away from home.. put away the gilt edged chances we create and concentrate for the whole 90mins.. i know we have no divine right to win every game... hang on a minute.. yes we have every right!!!. We are the boro and should be putting teams like sunderland to the sword with the talented team we have got

Posted by: smoggy plumm  | September 21, 2008 1:55 AM

smoggy plumm wrote...

just one more thing.. i dont want to hear any lame excuses coming out of rockcliffe or read any from mr southgate or the players in mondays gazette, its getting repetative and rather boring...

Posted by: smoggy plumm  | September 21, 2008 2:01 AM

Benny Brown wrote...

Spot on with your comment on Alves taking all the penalties for Boro. When you have a specialist goals scorer in the team he must be given every opportunity to use his Skills in all situations.

Downing must have had a black out when he took the spot kick as the position of his body at impact was not that of a player trying to hit the goal. He was leaning back at impact and the only place the ball was going was up and over. You do not have to be the best coach in the World to know that the head should be over the ball to keep the shot low down. This error could be put down to pressure, but it was a basic error on the part of Downing that I think may have cost us three points.

Otherwise a good honest display of football by a team that has gained the respect of many of pundits for the quality of their play, but unless we start to cash in on our excellent approach play we will be in another relegation battle instead of a top ten place battle. Boro are a great team to watch now that Southgate has banished all the negative Vibes from the McClaren era.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | September 21, 2008 2:57 AM

Neil (USA) wrote...

Tony Black...wondered how long it would take before you came on with your "the sky is falling rant".

"Either we have turned the corner and we are a steely side that keeps going to the bitter end, killing of teams as we go or we aren't and we need a reality check"...maybe we're still an inconsistent team who will kill teams like that off at times (at home) and not others (especially away). If we win all of our home games, we'll end up with 57 points, and I'll be happy. I agree that it's frustrating that we've let chances slip in the last few away games, but at least we've been in them.

To call for Southgate's head is ludicrous. Thankfully, someone with a little more patience is running the club...but you'd prefer a foreign owner who changes managers as much as he changes underwear, right?

I respect your views, mate, but come on. We've won two and lost three...hardly time to panic :)

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | September 21, 2008 3:59 AM

Ken wrote...

There are also a few specific things that are wrong, in addition to all the general trends mentioned above.

These are:

- Downing's penalty misses seems to distract everyone from the fact that he is not doing anything much the other 89 minutes. The fact that he is not playing with the reserves seems to indicate this is now Downing Football Club.

- I don't think that Alves works best on his own, he seems to be much better with someone else. But only Tuncay and Mido seem to be able to do that so far. Hence the recent injuries have been difficult for Boro.

- It cannot be a coincidence that 90% of the goals allowed by Boro have come during the 20% of the time that Hoyte has been on the pitch. He seems lost out there. The most obvious point to me is that McMahon has produced much better performances than any of Hoyte's - so why is McHahon in the Championship, while Hoyte is with Boro ? It clearly should be the other way around - hopefully Hoyte will be more of a finished product in a year from now.

- I hope that Southgate doesn't have a managerial blind spot in the area of penalty kicks, due to his own tragic experience. His press conference was all about being Downing's friendly grief counselor, rather than about any of the failures on the pitch.

Somehow the fact that above situations exist, is evidence that no one will notice or change any of the above, and Downing and Hoyte will undoubtedly start against Man U.

So, the only remaining topic of any importance is the status of Mido, on which I have seen not one word.

Posted by: Ken  | September 21, 2008 7:52 AM

Anthony Bruce wrote...

So its started already people calling for GS head. What have the team done that wrong so far this season? We have 6 points and to be honest if it wasnt for an own goal at Anfield, an unlucky flick on at Pompey and the wrong man taking a penalty yesterday we could actually started the season off unbeaten.

Are we all turning into Barcode fans and beleiving we have a devine right to win every game? Let's not go down that road. The fact is we are a small town in Europe, we dont have the resources to fight with the big boys we have a very good squad of young hungry players who want to play football week in week out for MFC.

Im happy with that and I have been happy with the performances, yeah we have had some lapses in concentration and that needs to be addressed but please judge the team in 3 months time and see where we are then.

Posted by: Anthony Bruce  | September 21, 2008 8:06 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

A couple of points from me.

Downing's penalty miss was crucial. The crime was not making Gordon make a save, same as against Stoke. Last year he placed tham at pace, is it a sign of lack of confidence.

But if we had scored would we have faith we wouldnt concede at least an equaliser?

I am going to take you back to Gates comments about not sitting back but pressing on to keep pressure off the defence. Please square that with replacing Jinky with Hoyte.

Did we deserve better? Doesnt matter because my Sunday paper has arrived and it says 2 0. The danger is we are leaking goals and points when we are playing reasonably well. At some point we will have a bad spell and that will be a test.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 21, 2008 8:07 AM

Aberdeen Brian wrote...

The defending for those two goals yesterday was an absolute shambles! When you consider that Southgate and Cooper were defenders who played at the highest levels, surely some of this must rub off on the training pitch?

And what's with Downing taking the penalty when it's Alves who needs the goals to kickstart his season?
I can understand Stewie wanting to atone for his miss in an earlier game but the good of the team (and, dare I say, the fans) surely must come first.

Finally we come back to the point I made in an earlier blog, concerning conceding late goals.
I think it's time to consider bringing in a sports psychologist to work with the players. If the training ground isn't addressing the problem then it's time to look at other causes.

The top teams have realised that sometimes problems reside with mental attitudes not with technical prowess.

Yes it's too early to push the panic button, but I don't want to be repeating this blog when christmas comes around.

Posted by: Aberdeen Brian  | September 21, 2008 8:34 AM

Redcar Red wrote...

No need to panic just yet but the problems are obvious and have been highlighted on here ad nauseum in the past.

The Game was there for the taking and we screwed it up ourselves. There were 3 turning points for me:

1. Turnbull's blunder (who otherwise in fairness had an excellent game) made us nervy and gave their fans a boost and their team a shot of optimism.

2. Stewy's penalty miss, why have we got a Striker talking about the Golden boot in press interviews who cost us the thick end of £13M but doesn't/can't take penalties. Stewy's loss of confdence has been over debated and over highlighted recently but his body language prior to taking it said nervous and jittery. I'm all for giving him a penalty when we are 3-0 up with 3 minutes left but this is a Professional sport not Schoolboy football.

3. The third turning point for me is why we switched back to a 5 man midfield with 10 minutes left? Again it tells the opposition we are not going to threaten and are settling for a point and hands them the impetus. For a team that cannot defend in the last 10 minutes this was incredible stupidity, naivety and totally unbelievable. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. If we can't defend the only other option is to go all out for it, not try and shut up shop (we are incompetent at the back from the 80th minute and we all know it, including our opponents).

We were all told how angry the team were after Portsmouth and no doubt we will hear the same prior to the next game. I'm sorry I don't want to hear it, I want to see it on the pitch. Playing pretty football is all very well and good (and in fairness a refreshing change) but there are one or two players looking too pretty at the moment as well, taking it all too literally. Is "Big Name" syndrome making a comeback?

I would have them in at Rockliffe this morning at 7.00am and start with a 15 mile jog and the same again tomorrow but I doubt if Gareth could get that angry and perhaps that's the problem.............even Mad Dog is starting to look more like a Pomeranian, nuff said!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 21, 2008 9:09 AM

allycat wrote...

We are playing well, but not sticking away our chances and not picking up the points. We have not had the best of luck and that has also cost us points. We have a paper thin squad, some of whom are prone to injuries. Add all of the above together and look at the short history of the premiership and you see that this is a situation that causes a relegation struggle. Gate needs to make sure that this does not all turn sour very quickly.

Posted by: allycat  | September 21, 2008 12:21 PM

John Purcell wrote...

It's certainly no time for panic for Boro. I was very impressed by what I saw and think GS is building something good for you.

The game could quite easily have gone either way.

All in all, I think the red and white areas of the North East have much more to be pleased about than the monochrome areas.

Good luck for the rest of the season Boro ... apart from the return at the Riverside of course!

Posted by: John Purcell  | September 21, 2008 1:10 PM

Beamish Boro wrote...

Either Gibson sells up to a billionaire consortium or the fans must face up to constant mid table mediocrity or worse.
In these days of mega money owners, Boro are struggling to keep pace , even with patheitic little clubs like Wgan, Fulham Portsmouth and Sunderland.

Posted by: Beamish Boro  | September 21, 2008 2:37 PM

john sully wrote...

i agree. alves should be taking penalties. i think once boro do get an away win, it might open the flood gates. just hope it happens soon.

Posted by: john sully  | September 21, 2008 2:56 PM

M. Seb.astian T wrote...

Anthony et al, Why on earth do you persist with this notion that playing Sunderland is a derby game? Clearly by the overall size of the crowd yesterday it is quite obvious that playing Boro is of no great interest to people in and around Sunderland. Similarly there seemed little interest from your Smog-siders, judging by the empty away section (guess you think that is normal). Overall it was simply a regular home game against poorly supported opposition for people from up the A19.

Concerning the actual game and the Boro team, both reflected that Southgate has assembled a set of physically big and strong lads. But on the other hand your team is a ponderous plodding outfit. Your big lads got rather tired after 75 minutes, which seems like the regular occurrence. Sunderland and Chopra simply had more zip than your lot when it mattered. The penalty was of course the result of a dive and justice was done by the miss. A double is in the air for the next meeting.

Boro can expect to finish in about 15th place with Bolton being the best comparison in style and talent level. Better luck against the Magpies as this season might be the last time you'll play them for some time.

**AV writes: Ordinary game? Hanging from lamp-posts outside the ground were big colour posters (which I took to be advertising either the programme or the Sunderland Echo) that declared: "Local Derby, Local Pride". Obviously no-one has told them.

Posted by: M. Seb.astian T  | September 21, 2008 4:55 PM

Richard wrote...

I feel a bit strongly about this & so I've cut 'n pasted it from the Boro Banter blog to contribute to the discussion here.

Boro's Credit Crunch: Sub-prime penalty taking!

I don't subscribe to the "bravery" school of thought. Stewart Downing's election to take the penalty was misplaced self-indulgence. The place to restore confidence is NOT in a competitive Premier League derby match where goal chances have already gone begging. Boro needed that goal more than Stewart Downing! The place to have put confidence back was on the training ground and only after time had dulled the ache of the earlier penalty miss and when it was no longer looming large in the psyche should he have considered himself a candidate. Having failed to convert against Stoke, it's my belief that Downing's prime motivation was a mixture of atonement and face-saving.

This is the wrong mental attitude with which to go into a game-changing moment. The selfless, mature and team-oriented action would have been to recognise this and allow someone else with no recent history of penalty misses to step up, without such an emotional burden, and bury it. Had that happened, one feels that it ought to have been game over - in Boro's favour. As it turned out, it WAS indeed a game-changing moment. It was just that the direction was wrong - from a Boro perspective, of course!

So, rather than stroking Downing's ego and reflecting on "the healthy credit balance of his account", as his manager did in his post-match interview, I'd be more inclined towards administering the dressing room hair-dryer treatment!

I don't care how bad Stewart Downing feels, the fact is that he cocked up big time! His challenge now is to get over it! Really get over it! And do not attempt to take another penalty kick in a competitive match until he KNOWS he's over it and he doesn't feel that he has to try to demonstrate the fact - while wondering if in fact he is!! Which in itself would be an indicator that he is still affected by it and he would, as he did yesterday, gamble with the team's fate.

This is not a ruthless enough mentality for the Premier League. Southgate didn't speak for me as a supporter yesterday. He spoke for himself.

Southgate maybe has too much sympathy for penalty missers! He has form, after all - at international level - made even more famous through advertising pizza, along with Stuart Pearce and Gary Neville, if memory serves me right! I suspect that humour was Southgate's catharsis. But it would also have taken time.

Downing should have taken more (time!).

Posted by: Richard  | September 21, 2008 5:54 PM

gt wrote...

Everyone is saying ,no need to panic,but the sign of a team going down,is when they play well and get beat,thats a bad sign

Posted by: gt  | September 21, 2008 6:56 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Hey Neil, maybe over there you guys have trouble reading or something cos I never called for anyones head. I simply stated that this was supposed to be the year GS nailed his colours to as the year we were all to judge him. His words not mine.

So I WILL judge him if and when the time's right.

I agree that there has been improvement and that there is a sense of wanting to play attractive, attacking football. But at the end of the day all that matters are results and the league table. If we go down to teams like bloody Sunderland then what chance is there for the rest of the teams we play ?

The time for excuses is over and so is just existing and being in the Premier League just for the sake of it.

Why can't we win away from home ?

Why do we concede so many late goals ?

Why can't we kill teams off when we are in front ?

I think these are fair and legitimate questions to ask, especially when people like Vic and Poggy tell us that times have changed and that we are a steely side which breaks from the age old problems of the past.

The Gazette is awash with the same old weekly propaganda and if the club want people like me to just shut up then so should they and instead of announcing how great we are and how we have the best pairing in the league etc etc etc ( Crosby - another one who can't keep his mouth shut ) they should just get on with it.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 21, 2008 6:58 PM

Peter Collins wrote...

"Let's not go down that road. The fact is we are a small town in Europe, "

Ah, the extremely pathetic, boring and small minded small town mentality rears it ugly heaad again. This always happen when we are discussing a defeat.

Posted by: Peter Collins  | September 21, 2008 7:07 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

A few points:

1. I heard a phrase on the radio commentary (I was away for the weekend with my wife) to the effect of "we are pummelling them...". Unlike boxing matches, football games cannot be won on points. If you are winning 3 - 0 you might be said to be pummelling, stuffing, or murdering the opposition. When it is 0 - 0, however well the approach play might have been so far, you are still one attack from going behind.

2. To have any chance of success, a team must take some of the chances it creates.

3. If players are out of form or lacking confidence, what happened to giving them a game in the Reserves, hopefully to shine, play well and get the confidence back?

4. Mido injured in the warm-up? If that is correct, what are we doing wrong, and are we going to do anything about it, or will someone else pull a groin, tweak a calf-muscle (I seem to remember we had a spate of those under Robson) or over-stretch an earlobe at the next game? And how long is he out for this time? Can he be kept under guard, with the fridge and pantry padlocked?

5. I agree with others, negative substitutions invite the other side on, and we haven't been successful in resisting that pressure in the later stages of games so far, have we? So maybe we might be better off continuing having a go right to the end.

6. Look at our away form for the past year. Our 3 losses so far this season MIGHT be seen as simply a continuation of our form last season, rather than a blip in a "season that is shaping up nicely". Look at what regularly happens to us in the later stages of games, even if we had been playing well and HAD scored earlier in the match. Can that really be persistent bad lack? Can it really be that our players are less fit that other teams and therefore fall away in the latter stages? Is it the tactics employed as the end of the game approaches? Or is it that there is a massive lack of confidence amongst the squad?

Or maybe that the players are simply not quite as good as the supporters would like to believe? It is a lot easier to think "it's just bad luck and luck will turn eventually", because that way it is nobody's fault and no-one needs to take any reponsibility.

7. I think we can all agree that if we get another penalty, Stewie has now had his turn(s). It isn't a case of proving whether or not he has the "bottle" to take the next one. It's just that Alves (or, when fit, Mido or Tuncay) are more likely to score from the spot and that is what would be best for the team.

8. We are not a small town in Europe (see Peter Collins' post above). We didn't qualify for Europe last season. Small town in Yorkshire remains more accurate.

9. I agree with other posters. I'd rather not hear how well we played, but bow unlucky we were. Neither do I want to hear "we will learn from this" or "I can't fault the lads' effort". Action speaks louder than words. If the trends were changed (scoring chances when on top, keeping a clean sheet, closing out games in the final 15 minutes etc), then that would be a sign that the words were meaningful, rather than empty.

10. We may have a problem if we really have been playing well and have suffered undeserved results. In every season the tide, the momentum, changes. There will come a time when we have several games in a row when we are playing badly, can't string passes together or when we are unlucky enough to meat opponents who happen to be in irresistable form. When that happens, the chances are we will go on a losing run. That's why it is important, when playing reasonably well, when carving out good chances or playing teams who themselves are not playing well, to take advantage and win those games. We have not been doing that.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 21, 2008 11:52 PM

Neil (USA) wrote...

TB,

Point taken about calling for GS's head. Your exact words were "he either has to deliver or he has to go".

I think we want the same thing, but we have a different way of looking at the things -- glass half empty / half full type of thing.

I think the acid test comes next week. If we beat the Baggies, then we'll have nine points, and we'll shoot up the table again. Lose and we could be in the bottom three. Just like last year really.

Maybe that's your point...

I suppose my earlier post was a bit of a knee-jerk response to the negativity that follows this club. I just get frustrated when we go from being excited about our slick, new-look team, to being down on them in the blink of an eye.

We lost to a Champions League team, a good Portsmouth team, and we could easily have got something out of yesterday's game.

Let's see how we do against Mogga's lot.

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | September 22, 2008 3:41 AM

dave connor wrote...

Well Anthony a very good article, however, everyone seems to be talking about the PENALTY MISS by Downing, yes he made a terrible shambles of it. However, what about the misses by others Alves not connecting with his head in front of a gaping goal and somehow raising his foot for a ball that needed only the slightest touch for a goal. Look at the team overall and we are a weak in a few places DIGHARD looked lost at times, if he has been bought for the future, who do we have at present. I thought that the game was there for the taking and when DOWNING missed the penalty it was obvious what would happen the substitutes were there for a point only, and even saying that we still had chances and fluffed them.
What I would like to know, if all are fit what is the first team??????

Posted by: dave connor  | September 22, 2008 5:12 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Gates states he is heartbroken for the players and fans.

I will go with that for the fans but not the players. I am afraid they are the architects of their own downfall and each and everyone of the playing and coaching team should take responsibilty for their actions. I dont think they should be paraded around Teesside in clown outfits (it is a football match) but I have little sympathy but they are very well paid for what they do.

Downing was guilty of not making the goalie work to save his penalty but I am going to pose a question. If he had scored do you believe we would have won. Not could or should but BELIEVE. If we posed the same question to the players and staff I wonder what would be going through their minds.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 22, 2008 8:04 AM

jiffy wrote...

There is a point everyone seems to be missing.

We have dominated our away games and lost because our strikers (Mido excepted) couldn't hit a barn door.

We have struggled to win 2 games at home - against 2 of the bottom 3 - again having dominated because our strikers are incapable of hitting a barn door. Those 6 points were scraped. How many more teams are we going to just manage to beat at home that way?

Why are we so surprised that Aliadiere (still not into double figures career goals in english football after 5 years) and Alves show no improvement in their striking capabilities than last season. We had no problems creating chances last season just total inability to convert them. What has changed? Bernie says the team looks full of goals - Tuncay, Alves and Aliadiere are unlikely to make a dozen between them in a season so where are these goals coming from?

Why give Alves the job of taking penalties? he can't score with simple tapins from 3 yards let alone 12. He doesnt merit his place in the side. I would look to replace him in January and cut out losses on him - he looks a 1m at best player now.

Why do we persist with Aliadiere out wide right? We bought Emnes for that job - will he ever get a chance?

Anyone that believes Justin Hoyt is a footballer wants his head examining. Bring back Mcmahon and move Hoyt on in January.

We have 7 substitutes. Do we really need to bring on a full back and oput him in midfield? 2 games we have done that now.

Pre-season we were told we would have the fittest team in the Premiership. So far the team has not managed to last 80 minutes in any game. That is not acceptable.

Turnbull is doing ok but still has 1 lapse every game which seems to throw the defence into jitters from then on. Hopefully he will learn from these and not repeat them as otherwise he has stopped a lot more than Schwarzer was doing last season. However we will be in bother if we lose him to injury or suspension - then the decision to not buy a keeper looks a bit sick as we dont have any reasonable alternative.

Posted by: jiffy  | September 22, 2008 9:30 AM

Chris D wrote...

Anthony Bruce.."if it wasnt for an own goal at Anfield, an unlucky flick on at Pompey and the wrong man taking a penalty yesterday we could actually started the season off unbeaten." - IF's don't win games my friend, goals do!!!

I'm not calling for GS head, I'm not panicking, nor am I a doom & gloom merchant. I am a realist though and it is clear we WILL NOT be moving forward & upwards this season. We still leak goals & throw away points in the last 10 mins and fail to take our chances. We still fail to beat the teams we should be beating IF we are as good as some think we are (i.e a team capable of a top 10 finish) which it would appear we are not. We also still have the bad habit of not turning the screw on teams we face who have a bad record behind them and let them end that record against us.

As soon as the local news announced that the Mackems had not scored at home this season & they had the worst home record in the PL it was inevitable what the result would be!! Absolutely no difference to last season, so why should anyone expect to see any difference?

Sadly, the only way to move forward in the PL is a large injection of cash from a very rich benefactor and to attract top players and a top manager

Posted by: Chris D  | September 22, 2008 9:39 AM

Pete Thompson wrote...

The Downing debate continues as per last week. Not being at the game but only seeing the highlights on Sky what was the overall impression of Jinky? - he certainly looked as if he was providing a spark at times and was definately having a better game than Downing, who in my opinion needs to stop 'sulking'.

Downing's body languague is not good - his penalty miss was diabolical and I believe it seems as if MFC is in fact Downing FC as mentioned by other readers - a dangerous road to go down. I do not want to slate Downing - he has terrific potential- but do you see Fergie play players week in weeek out who are clearly out of form. I said last week give him a run in the Reserves - let him hopefully score a few - just to get his confidence back - the Premiership is not the right place to carry 'passengers'.

Is it time for Jinky to have a run in the team and for Downing to fight for his place instead of a god gicven right to play week in week out? Overall GS decision making is now costing the team points and if we are not careful we will be having another season of struggle - the table doesn't lie.

Posted by: Pete Thompson  | September 22, 2008 9:40 AM

Nigel wrote...

The positive side to Boro's defeat, was that we played well, created a stack of chances, what was missing was the killer touch and a couple of goals, we need Alves to score a couple from open play to boost his confidence and of course for him to take the penalties, easy to say in hindsight of course.
I believe the signs are good, the team is playing well, but from a confidence perspective a positive away result is needed sooner rather than later.
I noticed during the periods of optimism and positive results very little from TB, but as soon as we loose a couple he's laying the foundations for the GS out arguement!!
As for Beamish Boro..............!!!

Posted by: Nigel  | September 22, 2008 9:48 AM

John Stone wrote...

Sunderland.

Our problem is that we are only concentrating for 80 minutes and the games are approx. 95 minutes long.

We have performed reasonably well in the 3 away games , but have got 0 points.

I would suggest if we have a positive position with only 10-15 minutes to go we should crowd the midfield and restrict the opposition,we are giving the ball away to easily and inviting pressure.

1 point from an away draw is better than 0 points from a valiant but doomed effort.

Alves should be taking the penalties,if he scores his confidence will soar !

Bright spot from the Sunderland game (bar one fumble) was Ross Turnbull,caught everything when required and made some very good saves.
This should confirm him as our new number one in between the sticks !

Posted by: John Stone  | September 22, 2008 10:55 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

Blimey, do some of you lot panic this quickly in your work and personal life? God help you, if you do.

Alves a £1m player? Cut our losses? What?!

Downing in the reserves? Eh!

The slating Downing has recieved on here and in other places is yet again embarassing (no heart, not bottle, Downing FC, etc etc). He's our best player, desperate to do welll for the club, he stepped up to take a pressure penalty and missed. So what. He won't be the first top player to do that and won't be the last.

People just can not wait to jump on his back. It really is cringeworthy.

I can't even read half of these posts, they are just nonsense.

Have some patience, have some faith. Nothing has changed in a couple of weeks - yes the result on Saturday was a shocker, yes the late goals shouldn't be happening. But - we are still in a massively better position than last year, we still have an excellent set of players.

Don't panic. Let's get behind them on Saturday (and Tuesday) and I'm sure we'll get three points.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | September 22, 2008 11:40 AM

Jarkko wrote...

I enjoyed the game until the penalty. But after sleeping a night on it I think it was a good performance and bad luck.

See that even a Sunderland fan (John Purcell) said we played well.

I quite agree that our dear Afonso ALves needs to start scoring. He and Tuncay will easily score over 20 goals between them. And Mido around 10 or more.

Jiffy is right in a way where the problem is. But I think we should be patient - I am sure the frontmen will hit the barn doors and some smaller objects soon.

I would like to see Emnes in from the bench, thought.

Posted by: Jarkko  | September 22, 2008 11:49 AM

tonyblack wrote...

Neil,

I totally understand your frustration and why you hate all the negativity.

My pet hate and the reason why I post in such a way I have to say is the fault of the Evening Gazette and the Boro PR team, so maybe I should quit buying it !

What I hate are the pronouncements of "we have the best paring in the league", "we've turned the corner" etc etc which all come pouring out after the odd result.

Even Vic plays this game at times but at least he can be excused as he writes as a fan and from the heart as opposed to just writing propaganda for the club. Just read his August article about "Steely Boro Pass Stoke Test" and then read this one.

I hate it when people like Crosby say what they say because it's said all too soon without actually having done very much in the way of results / league table to be able to justify these claims.

Obviously, for people like me i.e. the doomongers, we are all too eager to be negative as you suggest which is why I haven't called for any heads to roll and agree that there is no need to panic yet.

It is the however also the case that we haven't been able to cure our away form or our inability to kill off teams or our love affair with conceding late on. For me this is a question of coaching or a lack of poor mental preparation / focus, it isn't and can't be just a case of bad luck.

So for me personally, unless GS and Co can cure these soon then they will have to face the fact that they did say judge us this year, as judge them we will.

I've never liked their appointment from day one and I have always maintained that they should never have been put in charge as they were always going to have to learn on the job and this takes time.

Why fans must have to give people the time to learn their job and hope that they don't get it wrong in the process I don't know.

For me the appointment of GS and Coops was an absolute joke and a slap in the face because it showed the clubs lack of ambition and the fact the all they are ever interested in is in hailing yet another year of being in this league.

For some people that's enough and that's fair enough but for me it isn't and so we will just have to agree to disagree as they say.

Would I rather be in Newcastes position ? NEVER. They are the biggest joke of a club ever, but then I would rather be in Man City's position than ours.

Gibson, the one who can never be talked of badly, is an absolute legend who rightfully deserves all the plaudits and the freedom of the town. But at some point he too must realise that unless he has lots more cash to spend that he has done all he can and that in order for this clun to actually move forwards he will have to go at some point.

The fact we have had to risk on two keepers that most, if not all fans simply don't rate is not exactly a sign that Gibson has the money or the desire to take the club on further.

With more money we would have bought, with Gisbon we didn't because he ain't got it. Does that mean he should stay forever just because of what he has done in the past ? In my book no.

Yes, there is much improvement, but at the end of the day for me there isn't enough of an improvement to suggest that we have turned any sort of corner.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 22, 2008 11:52 AM

M wrote...

One thing I am sick of hearing is we were unlucky. The guy commentating alongside Ali could not stop saying it as well.

Face facts, Sunderland scored 2 legit goals, not flukes, bad decisions or anything like that, perfectly good goals. We couldn't. We couldn't even score from the spot!

Sunderland kept a clean sheet while as usual we couldn't.

10 minutes to go & we conceded, same story as always.

We got exactly what we deserved. Nothing. Lucks nothing to do with it. We do not do the basics right. That's incompetence or complacency not bad luck.

The sooner Southgate grows a pair & starts whipping the team into shape the better. This soft approach with a refusal to accept anyone in a Boro shirt can do wrong is getting very tiresome now its in its third season.

The team, like its manager, has a soft underbelly, lacks any ruthlessness & does not have a killer instinct. Its no fluke that what I see as a weakness in our manager is also present in the team.

I've never been convinced by Southgate as a manager & this season is doing nothing to change things. Its just new faces delivering more of the same.

Posted by: M  | September 22, 2008 11:59 AM

Chris from Beverley wrote...

It will be interesting if tomorrow's CC match goes to extra time and penalties.

I wonder where Stewart will fit into the order.

Perhaps by that time he might have been subbed and this poser will be a non starter.

Anyway, I'll be there to witness it if it happens....

Just wish the game lasted 79 minutes !

Posted by: Chris from Beverley  | September 22, 2008 12:00 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

We must be realistic in our responses, the squad we have is here until January and unlikley to be strengthened with players bedded in much before March.

We havent played badly away but what do we deserve. In cruel terms what we have got. At Lpool they had 59% possession and 16 shots to our 9 (all figures from MFC), Pompey was 52:21:7 and Mackems 53:17:14. I know stats can be used for anything but if you showed someone the above figures they would say possibly deserved a point.

The fact we have conceded five goals in the last few minutes is painful but they are as valid as scoring after 25 minutes.

The fact we had points in the bag until the last few minutes is painful but the rules give no points for winning the first half or nearly getting through 90 mins.

We have just got to get on with it, that doesnt mean the posts I made earlier are not my views. I am not calling for Gate to go or shoot the players. We are 12th in the table and if we dont start putting teams away will not move up the table. Now is not the time to panic but showing concern is justified, we dont want the better football we are playing to be dissipated by fear.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 22, 2008 12:09 PM

stockton red wrote...

We have now played 3 away games and should have got 4 points-We have none partially through ill luck at Liverpool and otherwise through one way or the other shooting ourselves in the foot.It is hugely frustrating.
I said last week I was behind the manager and everything he is trying to do but his substitutions and line up in the last two games need some explanations.
1.Why when Digard was injured at Pompey did he play a left back in centre mid when he had Josh Walker on the bench.
2.We start on Saturday with Downing out of position.We end up with Hoyte in midfield and Wheater at right back -what is that all about.
3. Aliadiere is a front man plain and simple as one of two forwards in 4-4-2 or 3 in a 4-4-3.He cannot play right midfield particularly away from home when defensive duties are required in that position.
Please no more square pegs// round holes. It is not helping anybody.

Posted by: stockton red  | September 22, 2008 12:12 PM

John Powls wrote...

One of the advantages of the pattern of the season is that it quickly gives us, the players and the manager and coaches something to focus on other than the disappointing 'Oops we did it again' debacle at SoS.

In this case it's 'Our Cup' tomorrow evening against ManUre.

We can reasonably assume that this competition is not their priority. Coming off the back of a tough game at Chelski and between Champs League legs and with a fair few of their squad not fit or fully fit you'd expect them to field less than their full first team squad - but that probably still means a starting team full of younger full internationals supported by a bench of the more experienced.

For Boro this represents not just one of the two best chances for winning something this season but also an opportunity to break a mould in terms of our away form and results.

So, despite the potential elephant trap of The Baggies at the weekend, Gate is right to suggest that we should be going with our best 11 and a bench composed of whoever else is fit enough to make up an eighteen.

The tie has to be sorted on the night and neither team will want extra time so there is every incentive to go for it and every chance of a win and a performance.

It seems that Mido won't be fit. Despite him being well out of goalscoring touch we can't not play Alves tomorrow evening - and you never know, the advent of taking on ManUre again may just spark him after last season!

I think Gate should abandon any experiments with formation and go back to his much preferred 4-4-2/4-3-3. I wouldn't partner Alves with Aliadiere as that gives us 2 non-scoring forwards and plays Aliadiere away from the role where he has been most successful.

So, I'd partner Alves with Emnes. His whip smart header in the last round showed he has an eye for goal and he has pace and some trickery and is an unknown quantity for the opposition.

The rest of the midfield should be Stewie, Gary O'Neil and Shawky.

Gate has said he planned to use this competition to swap goalies - I hope he doesn't and retains Turnbull.

In defence, I think Gate (not for just this match) has to identify his best back four and play it unless injury or radical loss of form dictates otherwise. Keeping the rest happy is a second order issue and should be dealt with as such.

For me, that includes avoiding any more square-peggism (a habit that I thought had gone with The Ex and after Gate decided that he was going to make no more compromises).

So, I think Wheats should play at centre back and if Hoyte can't get up to speed then get Tony Mc back from the Owls.

This one may not be able to be fixed for tomorrow.

It also follows that Tayls should play left back and then we perm whichever 2 Gate wants from four (three for tomorrow if Wheats has to stay at right back).

I'm not sure if Johnno will be fit for tomorrow but, for me, he is still no more than a bench player in the Prem.

The Sunday Times reporter - maybe unkindly - yesterday referred to him as Stewie's Mini-me. But I know what he meant.

We need Stewie to be in the side tomorrow because - even if he isn't at 100% he's still the better player and I'd rather have him playing and recovering himself on the park rather than brooding off it.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 22, 2008 12:19 PM

jc wrote...

The penalty - Richard put it better than I could. All I can say is "Stewie - please, please, please don't take the next penalty!". I knew as soon as he grabbed the ball that we were going to lose the game, I literally had my head in my hands. I take no pleasure in my prophecy!

Some here have questioned the Johnson substitution, but he'd taken a knock earlier (unfairly I thought, and completely ignored by the ref) and was struggling a bit. Why Hoyte came on in midfield, though, I couldn't say.

The important lesson to take from the game, though (apart from the obvious - that we need to convert our chances), is that we clearly still have that ingrained psychological fragility that lost us, among other things, our chance to get to an FA Cup final (and a place in Europe) last season. We had it briefly against Stoke, but it's gone again.

We need to forge a belief, a strength of mind and an ebullience in the team that lasts for the full ninety-odd minutes - the kind of attitude that Tuncay embodies, and another reason why we miss him so much.

I'd back JP's line up for tomorrow - Emnes' pace (if fit) up front would be an asset.

Posted by: jc  | September 22, 2008 12:57 PM

Nigel wrote...

BoroPhil - well said.
TB - You're blaming The Gazette and Boro's PR for what you post? You want to try taking responsibility for your own actions, I assume it is your fingers hitting the keys when you post and not Uncle Eric's of Keith Lambs'?
Looking forward, tomorrows match could be a great game and a good opportunity for Boro to progress, Utd. will field a 'B' team and its's up to Boro to take advantage. If GS sticks to his word and fields his strongest team then we have every chance of winning.
Finally we're five games in,after another five we will have a good picture of how the sesaon is going to pan out, in the meantime the string of away defeats and late goals conceded has given us something to bicker about!

Posted by: Nigel  | September 22, 2008 2:31 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

I agree with the sentiments about the defence. In six games this season we've had two right backs, four centre backs and two left backs which is ridiculous. Let's go with Hoyte-Wheater-Huth-Taylor and stick with it. Wheater at right back is not the answer, and as much as I'd love Poga in the team, Taylor is a better left back.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | September 22, 2008 3:16 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

On to ManU at the Theatre of Dreams.

Gate has promised his strongest team, lets hope it really is and not just evidence of manager speak as he gets ever closer to his final coaching badges.

A game so soon after Saturday is a double edged sword. ManU had a bruising game yesterday and if we give it a real go and get a result then that would be a great tonic for the fans and players.

The downside is that if we have a poor performance then that reinforces the bad vibes. It would create additional pressure on Saturdays game with the return of Mogga, Greening, Mozza et al.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 22, 2008 3:32 PM

paul bell wrote...

Well MFC can forget aby progress in the CC.I reckon they will be trounced 4-0 by the Mancs.Boro are clueless,as long as GS is in charge,no passion in the teams play,and it shows by how the team plays,without any passion.Don't think they will find it easy against TM WBA either.

Posted by: paul bell  | September 22, 2008 3:46 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Let's get Sunland out of our system now, lads and lasses. A bad day at the office. OK. Move on.

Looking forward to taking on the Mancs tomorrow - but whatever their side, we'll need a performance. They won't want to lose,not after going out to Coventry last year.

I'm sitting in with the home supporters, so I'll have to keep me gob shut. I hope Boro frustrate them to hell and we nick a goal or 2 to put them out. No extra-time penalties please!

Come on Boro!

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | September 22, 2008 6:34 PM

Jordan wrote...

Must say i agrre with jc you could see when stewie placed the ball on the spot it was going anywhere but in the net.

My line up for tomorrow would be;
Turnbull
Wheater at right back
Huth and Pogatetz in the centre
Taylor on the left
Aliadiare, Digard and O'Neil, Downing in midfield and ALves and Emnes up front.

The score? 2-1 To man U but we will score first and they'll only win in the second half of extra time after we look to be holding on for penalties.

Posted by: Jordan  | September 22, 2008 6:44 PM

deka wrote...

squre pegs in round holes,where have we seen this before,it seems to be a regular thing at the boro.players should play in thier correct positions.ie downing is not a striker poggi is not a left back hoyte is not a midfielder.dont do a mclaren southgate,and dont accomodate your favourites at the expense of a sound formation.downings body language on saturday was awful,the lad needs dropping for his own good,he had a poor game.make o,niell captain and play 2 centre backs not 3.

Posted by: deka  | September 22, 2008 7:13 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

As an aside, to make us feel a little better after the game at Sunderland, have you heard the news? Mike Ashley hoping to sell Newcastle United in Nigeria!

Let's hope it's not the sort of internet scam that Cleveland Police, the Press and others have been warning us about for some time. You know the form: "Mr Ashlee, iff you could deeposit $20M into our account in order to satisfy our Bankers of your good faith, we will sned you the $750M purchase price for your club by elektronic transfer since 24 hours, to complete the purchase. Many lookings foward to hearing. Yours full of Faith, A. Conner, Lagos."

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 22, 2008 7:47 PM

BLT wrote...

Surprise suprise. Boro lose and Tony Black is the first one on the blog to gloat: Southgate is rubbish this, Cooper is useless that, time for Gibson to go the other. Change the record son.

If you actually went to games instead of taking your script from Bernie Slaven you would see what is actually happening which is that we are very close to being a decent side, playing good passing football and creating a lot of chances.

So far in five games this season we have been outplayed in one half at Pompey, 10 minutes at Liverpool and 20 minutes at the SOS. One fluke deflection at Anfield, one miskick at Pompey and one mistake at either end at Sunderland have cost us big style but that is down to individual errors not Southgate's tactical mistakes.

You are the worst type of Boro fan, the whinger who spends years ignoring the good things and missing out on the joy of supportng your team in favour of waiting for the mistakes so you can say "I told you so." Even a stopped watch is right twice a day.

And I havent forgotten that this time last year you were slagging Gibbo and saying Man City was the way to go with their shady on the run Thai dictator squandering his blood money on Bianchi and Giovanni. You would sell this club out to the first snake oil salesman who came along just so you could say 'told you so' about Gibbo going.

You talk about Gazette propaganda when all you do is disinformation and black spin. Your agenda is far more obvious than Uncle Eric's. At least there is no question he wants the best for the club.

Sorry about the rant AV but this fella and his ilk really get up my nose.

BLT - Boro Loyalist of Thornaby


Posted by: BLT  | September 22, 2008 7:48 PM

Ste Mac wrote...

Gareth Southgate needs to watch his step. He is starting to sound like McClaren in his post-match comments. "Doing the right things", "keep creating chances", "need to learn the lesson"... we can't be far from a 'magnificent performnace' after a real gubbing.

I like the bloke and I like the way the team is going but the platitudes after the match are starting to rile.

How many times is he going to say we need to learn the lesson before people question whether maybe the teacher is taking the wrong approach?

Here's a lesson to learn: three times we've played Sunderland under Roy Keane and three times they have scored a goal in the last minute. How do you figure that happened then Gareth?

Posted by: Ste Mac  | September 22, 2008 7:54 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

"Colin, Malc I've just come up with the Team for Manchester this week!"

Team V. Manure

1. Jones (promised him we'd take turns)
2. Hoyte (just bought him so got to play him)
3. Pogatetz (he's the Captain so got to play him somewhere)
4. Wheater (phew don't need no excuses with this one)
5. Huth (again phew don't need no excuses)
7. Aliadiere (tell them Emnes has strained a wrist making the tea)
8. GON (mmmmm Arca's not fit, Digards not recovered etc. etc.)
9. Alves (Mido's out for 3 months pulling a stomach muscle in Greggs)
10. Shawky (cos I like him and besides I have to replace him with a defender with 10 mins left to cause utter confusion)
11. Stewy (ah bless, he needs a cuddle)

Subs

12. Turnbull (in case Jones chips his nail varnish in the warm up)
13. Jinky (thinks he's bloody Gods gift, not if I have any say in it, soon knock that confidence out of him)
14. Walker (silly boy. I'm amazed he still thinks he might get a go....still it keeps me and Coops amused)
15. Craddock (keeps Walker company)
16. Taylor (so I can put him into midfield with 10 minutes left to give AV something to blog about)
17. Digard (still struggling with the effects of a nasty bang on the leg/calf/shin/knee/thigh...perm any one from five)
18. Riggot (so I can move Wheater to RB when Hoyte scores another OG after Jones slices it in off his backside)

"well what do you think lads? if that doesn't guarantee Manure scoring in the 87th minute I'll buy a snazzy new tank top!"

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 22, 2008 9:32 PM

tonyblack wrote...

BLT wrote...

I can quite easily take what you have to say on the chin as there is every chance that you're right and that I'm wrong. I've always said that I want to be proved wrong but have yet to see what you and others see. I've said that there is much to be positive about and that there have been many positive changes, but as far as I'm concerned the things I have talked about i.e. the age old Boro problems, have yet to be sorted out and so for me personally all the good work that has quite obviously happened has been lost because of the managements inability to change what I and many others see as the core of our problem and the reason why we don't ever get very far up the table and more often than not we are in a relegation battle.

Perhaps I often concentrate on the negative aspects instead of concentrating on the positve like you do and just cheering the team on. But for me when fans do this there is just a danger that the status quo remains. For me it's better that the club and manager know that people like me exist so that they feel pressure and react to it by performing better. You might see it differently and that's fine.

All I know is that when I'm at match's that I shout just as much as the next fan and I keep my concerns for in here.

But I notice that in your abuse of me that you don't answer any of the questions that I asked. I also notice that you miss out completely that I haven't asked anyone to go and said that there is no need to panic yet.

I merely posed a series of " what ifs " if GS doesn't achieve what he said was to be his year after rebuilding his team.

Isn't this the year ? Isn't this a forum for debate or are we just an arm of the Boro PR dept where everything's amazing ?

So BLT, as you have all the answers why don't you enlighten me.

Why can't we win away ?
Why do we concede so many goals late on ?
Why can't we put the knife in to teams and kill them off when we're in front ?

Are you seriously telling me that this is just a case of bad luck ? Or maybe there is just the faintest possibility thath there is something a miss on the training ground ?

If you look through the blog you will see that I'm not the only one who doesn't subscribe to your point of view. But unlike you I am quite happy to accept that you and others have a different point of view.

Man City. Yes, of course I'd like a group of people with over 500 billion to take over the Boro. Like I said before, you may well be happy to simply exist whereas others may not be.

Oh and yes whilst we're at it I have been to games this season and so yes that does entitle me to an opinion even if you don't agree what I have to say.

But I totally respect your opinion and what you have to say and look forward to you taking the mick out of me when we end the season way up the league. Personally, I can't see it.

I've no doubt that we will beat Man UTD and then lose to West Brom, just as we so often do in the past.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 22, 2008 11:14 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

I understand that its difficult to have a larger squad due to cost and good players if they did come to the Riverside would want first team footy -But once again injuries are screwing us up.
We need the full squad fit in order to have a strong enough bench to change games we are behind in or keep up the performance when we are in front.
We have some great players in the squad but international duty has taken a few out and Southgate must imagine before the start of the season of 38 competitive matches that we WILL get some injuries, especially as some of our players and the team on a whole has form when it comes to injuries!
Tuncay and Mido were looking good , then the typical injuries happen as always.
I would try Aliadierre off Alves up front . If Emnes is fit I would put him on the right deffo.
I hope tonights game does not lead to more injury woes for us as the West Brom game comes shortly afterwards.
I think we should buy Blackburns Matt Derbyshire in the transfer window as we have no bench unless the full squad is fit.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | September 23, 2008 10:13 AM

Mr Average wrote...

First time poster, it seems appropriate to introduce myself...

Im not really a football tactics man. I havent got my UEFA A, B or O negative. I dont play Football Manager. I don't know how to change the shape to counter wing backs or what you get extra from the '2' in a 4-2-3-1 that you dont get from the middle 2 in the 4 of a 4-4-2 and I am always the last to spot when we have "gone to a five" during a game.

I don't know much about nutrition, physio, sports science or what they do on the training ground either. So that's my credentials on the table for you. If I don't match up to some on here, tough.

What I do know is that Boro have never been a very big club or very successful club and although we have been there or thereabouts a few times we don't really have the crowds, the cash, the sponsors, the designer shops, the champions in the press or the glamour to attract top quality managers or players and keep them long enough to build a team that will mature over a few years to become a really potent force that can challenge. I'm not bitter, that's life.

That means our moments of glory have been brief ones, when groups of players have suddenly gelled and for a few months or a few brief seasons they have played good football and the crowd have reacted with generous vocal support and there has been a real buzz.

In my lifetime those moments have been few - Charlton's promotion team and the first year up, John Neal's good year, 1986-89, Robbo's first year, the double Wembley year (although we knew it would end in tears), the promotion year straight after then the week of Cardiff, the first few Euro games and the spell between the second goal against Basel and half-time at Eindhoven.

Right now I think we could be close to having a decent team that could just give us one of those moments. Probably not because the odds are stacked against us but you never know, we are playing decent football, creating chances and have an attacking outlook and besides you have got to believe it is possible and enjoy the ride or you may as well stop going.

So that's me. I go because I enjoy it, it is my team, my town and my DNA (and because the alternative is B&Q).

What I don't understand is why "ra-ras" and "chicken runners" spend so much time between games trying to persuade others to see what they see and change their outlook on life. This blog (and the other crazy board) is like Mormons squabbling with Jevohas Witnesses.

I enjoy reading it (keep up the good work AV and others) but I do wish some people would just relax a bit, drop the evangelical stuff and show some signs that they actually enjoy the game.

Sorry it is so long. I'll keep it shorter next time.

**AV writes: You write as long or short as you like. Mr Average? It is an above average
first post. Welcome aboard.

Posted by: Mr Average  | September 23, 2008 10:49 AM

chris wrote...

Ok Southgate has come out and said Downing will continue to take the penalties even after the 2 misses.....duh!!!

Secondly i find it a head scratcher that we have 3 international defenders - Huth, Pogo, Wheater - and one other to choose from and still leak goals like a sieve.

These guys perform at international level and are not amateurs. Pogo played left back for Austria in the euro's so he does know that position well as of course he was a left back when he came to boro before being moved inside.

The point i make is this: the problem has got to be 1 of 2 things.... either the training ground cannot teach them even though both Southgate and Cooper both international ex defenders do not know what they are doing, or, which is more likely, the goal keeper is not controlling his defence, shouting for balls ...blah... hence every cross turns into keystone cops!

With regards to Hoyte maybe Southgate is trying to do an 'Arca' with him as he has decided he is not up to the right back job but still rates his speed and control? Just a thought.I would get Mac back as quickly as poss and let him have his chance with the Boro as he has been injury free and looks solid.

Posted by: chris  | September 23, 2008 11:07 AM

Chris L wrote...

Unfortunately the "United B team" appears to include Neville, Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani and a certain diving Portugese Real Madrid wannabee .... we will need to play well and get some decisions for a change. I will also be sitting amongst the Mancs ... find it very difficult to keep quiet when we do deliver (great memories of 2 headed Juninho goals at the Stretford end leading to threats of GBH against me!)

Posted by: Chris L  | September 23, 2008 12:01 PM

rob meeres wrote...

Penalties are all about confidence. I was proud to be given the duty for my supermarket executive 11 for the 2007-08 season and slotted my first two but when I missed my first it was totally changed my positive menatal attitude to a negative mental attitude. When I missed my third in row the screams on the field were equalled only by the silence in the office on monday morning. I sincerely hope Stewart's team mates show more compassion and support as without that performances fall as a direct result of the mental mauling ones mind takes following spot kick failure.

Posted by: rob meeres  | September 23, 2008 7:48 PM

stockton red wrote...

I mentioned above about how we find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.Same tonight-a totally unnecessary sending off and then two schoolboy errors to rub salt into the wounds.

Posted by: stockton red  | September 23, 2008 11:22 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Well that was a trouncing! Despite ManU playing several reserves, they were much too good for us. We were constantly overrun by a pacy, fluid and extremely slick team. The only time we looked at ease was for 15 mins after Johnno had scored - great goal by the way.

Then Pog gets his marching orders and its backs to the wall from then to the end. Two horrendous mistakes by Riggott and Wheater allowed United simple chances which for once they put away to finish us off. To be honest, they could and should have scored ten. Anderson and Tevez were outstanding. We learned a really hard lesson tonight - we are simply miles away from challenging near the top of the league on this evidence. Now the hard work starts - Boro looked a side short on confidence (and ability) tonight and after 3 straight defeats, there is much work to do to rebuild it.

Two plus points:- Brad Jones had a fantastic game for 85 mins, making a number of excellent saves, though he almost committed a howler late on and Hoyte had to head off the line. And Stewy looked good for much of the game, even in midfield after Johnno came on.

And one question. OK, when Pog goes off, Riggott comes on. But why take Digard off when Shawky had already departed? Digard was just starting to get his game together. This left Boro woefully short in midfield, with only GON of the 4 (Downing, Johnson, Aliadiere) able to win tackles effectively. I would have taken Aliadiere off - he contributed little all night.

An absolute battering. Time to regroup. We need 3 points against the Baggies to halt the decline.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | September 23, 2008 11:29 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Man United 3 Middlesbrough 1.

The half-empty side of me is glad we didn't have to play their first team. Or, for that matter, the Arsenal Under 19 team.

The half-full side supposes that means Wheater and Huth are nailed on for the centre-back pairing at the weekend.

Hope you enjoyed it, AV, and that it looked better from your seat than it looked in my pub.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 24, 2008 12:23 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Well that didnt do much to improve the health and temper. No upside and plenty of downside.

At least Gate will have a few weeks without the 'where to play Pogo?' question. Looked a poor challenge on replays but it always make it look worse when it is slowed down, reckless is possibly the right word. Dont think we will be appealing against that one.

If Pogo is banned for Saturday we will have a sort of beauty parade in central defence. I guess Huth and Wheats to start.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 24, 2008 9:41 AM

Nigel wrote...

Well the Utd 'B' team proved too good, such is life.
Frustratingly though yet again two goals conceded in the last ten minutes, it has developed into a major psycological problem.
Mr. Average - An excellent summing up of what the Boro is.

Posted by: Nigel  | September 24, 2008 9:46 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

One thought that flitted through the vacuum between my ears and then departed before I submitted the last post. It will be intriguing to see if the FA want to speak to Pogo about his 'tackle' bearing in mind no further action was taken following Taylors challenge on Eduardo last season and Guthries two hacks at Fagan.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 24, 2008 9:55 AM

bob wrote...

Mr Average - your post is a drop of sanity in an ocean of insanity. You are absolutely spot on about our brief but enjoyable periods of glory, and I agree this team looks more likely than most to provide us with another one of those periods, regardless of all the bluster above.

Posted by: bob  | September 24, 2008 9:57 AM

Giles wrote...

The bottom line is that we lacked urgency as a team in the first half and did not live with United's attacking football very well in the 90 minutes. Individual errors were costly but the scoreline could easily have been more had Brad Jones not made some excellent stops.

The positives: Downing looked good in flashes, Hoyte enjoyed a better game for Boro than in some previous outings and Jones was probably our man of the match.

And the negatives: Alves isn't playing anything like a £12m striker at the moment. Aliadiere was ineffective again at right-midfield and we're missing Tuncay's energy and invention more with each game.

Posted by: Giles  | September 24, 2008 10:44 AM

Phil ex Warrenby wrote...

I too cant understand Gates substitutions putting hoyte in the midfield when he is supposed to be a full back.and leaving wheats at full back when he should be in the centre .Walker or the young Dutch lad would have been wiser subs in my opinion.at Sunderland it was an invite to go on the attack and at Man U it was sheer madness.Please let someone else take the spot kicks, it cant be all that hard to get some one to do it with out blazing it over the bar.or just give me a ring and I'll do it

Posted by: Phil ex Warrenby  | September 24, 2008 1:19 PM

Phil ex Warrenby wrote...

If you need a penalty taker give me a ring and please if you need midfield subs do it with another midfielder....no more wishfull thinking

Posted by: Phil ex Warrenby  | September 24, 2008 1:34 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Feel really sorry for Poggy. Yes it was a horrendous tackle but yes it was a tackle based out of the passion and the desire to be the best as opposed to just being a horrendous tackle by a dirty player and I think that really needs to be said to Ferguson.

As for the rest I think that the team is just too blunder prone in all too many areas. Of course mistakes happen all of the time but it just seems that we all too often make fatal blunders that are always going to cost us dear as opposed to just making usual mistakes that we can recover from.

GS made a great decision in my opinion in getting in someone new to work on the fitness etc, and so if only he could get someone in to work on the mental / concentration side of tings then I think we would make less of these fatal blunders.

Giles's analysis works for me. Downing has always been an in and out performer which is why I think he's over rated. Great when he's on form but not on form for long enough given the obvious talent he has. I expected and really thought Alves would be a revelation and he isn't any where new that and Tuncay's a big loss when he's not on the pitch.

Always loved Johnno and hope he really does get a good run as I think he will only get better and better.

There is the makings of a decent team but for me the missing link is the manager and his number two who just aren't yet a strong enough pairing to bring all the elements together and bring out the best in what we've got. Slate me all you like for saying it but I just can't see any other reason for it.

The next couple of league games are massive for us. So let's just hope that GS and co can gel everything together quickly so that good games turn into good results and that they start to address some of the age old issues of away form and late conceding so that this blip after a very good start doesn't decend into yet another year of nervously being dragged in and out of the relegation zone, as sooner or later we will get caught out.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 24, 2008 2:04 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

I think Possebon chose the wrong player to play chicken with ! The youtube slowmo of the tackle with Motorheads 'the ace of spades playing' shows that the players would of collided heavily at best as they were in a straight line with the ball in between them.
I am not saying that Possebon has no right to go for the ball as I'm sure he is a quick lad but Pogger clearly gets the ball first - Possebon has no time to jump out of the way and Pogger has no time to avoid Possebon.
Its unintentional .
The West Brom match is important now as we need 3 points.Winning ugly would do me- no more late goals please God

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | September 24, 2008 7:54 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Looking at the half full glass scenario Jones was excellent and at least the defence choices for the next few weeks is a little less complex for Gate.

Big question is in Pogi's absence who is Captain? Huth? Wheater? Downing? surely not GON? That one question shows the true strength and depth of the squad or not.

The timing of last nights incident also highlights why maybe Pogi is not the ideal Leader, but there isn't anyone else. Perhaps with hindsight Luke Young's sale was not such a good deal after all, but there again if Arsenal can put out a team of Kids and bang 6 past Sheff Utd who knows anymore.

Feeling very confused and befuddled right now. On paper, good individuals but collectively it isn't working. Big name syndrome is starting to raise its head again, there are players who are definitely not being selected on merit and who do not not deserve their game.

You can just see Morrison making the headlines on Saturday night!................Typical Boro!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 24, 2008 8:18 PM

John Powls wrote...

Looking forward - well, let's face it, looking back over the last three games is painful - to The Baggies game and presuming that Gate returns to his preferred 4-4-2/4-3-3 I think that Emnes shout start in place of Aliadiere.

Despite my misgivings, you would also have to think that it would be in Gate's thoughts to start Arca too, given the way The Baggies play.

I'm presuming that Huth will return having been 'rested' at ManUre - did that mean that his current stage of 'injury management' can't cope with two games in four days?

Hopefully, Mido is fit too. If we had an alternative, I'd drop Alves - but I don't think we do; replacing him with Aliadiere (except in terms of subbing him in the second half) is replacing one non-scoring forward with another.

If Turnbull returns in goal, I think the starting eleven might be:-

Turnbull; Hoyte, Huth, Wheater, Taylor; Emnes, Shawky, Arca, Downing; Alves and Mido.

Mozza has a point to prove to Gate and he has been notching the odd goal recently. I still struggle with why he was let go when we still have no replacement. I think he may rub it in on Saturday.

Mogga will doubtless get a good reception from both sets of fans in what may be the smallest home crowd yet.

There are lots of similarities between the two sides - both can score but always concede and both play a lot of pretty, passing football in midfield.

It should be an entertaining game but I find it difficult to predict who will come out on top so I'm going for a 2-2 draw.

As each game goes by the need for a right footed, creative, central midfielder gets more and more stark. We've identified the need on here for more than two seasons.

Someone who can hold the ball and dictate the pace, act as the pivot for continuity passing, pull the strings and provide service to the strikers directly but also know when to play it wide. Some experience is required for this - and also for Boro's midfield.

The lack of this player in our squad is one reason why I think Gate will bring Arca back this weekend. He's the nearest we've got but nowhere near as good as we need.

Stephen Appiah is available as a free agent. 'Appy 'Arry has said he was interested but thought Appiah's wage demands would mean Pompey wouldn't go for him.

Whilst Boro wouldn't want to pick up a big wage long term either, isn't there some sort of creative deal that could be done which would get us Appiah until the New Year and the opening of the transfer window and would give Appiah chance to build his match fitness and put himself in the shop window for a full time contract?

Just a thought.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 25, 2008 8:27 AM

jc wrote...

Creative midfielder - I see we're being linked with Defour from Liege. 20 years old, looks like a good prospect. Anyone know more about him?

Posted by: jc  | September 25, 2008 10:33 AM

John Powls wrote...

jc

Only what I've seen in the games on TV with The 2 Scouser sides.

He may be one for the future and other teams have pillaged the Liege midfield too after watching those televised games - but at his age he isn't going to have the craft and the experience to run a midfield and a game.

The Fabregas's of this world are few and far between and above our payscale.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 25, 2008 12:04 PM

Benny Brown wrote...

Just a note on commentators, why do the Boro seem to get commentators who know very little about the Boro, their history the local area etc every time they play at home or locally, We always appear to get the London background commentators every time. Did any one notice the comment at the Sunderland game when the Commentator said we are having a shirt sleeve day on TYNSIDE. on the subject of local commentators. Adrian Healy and Robbie Mustoe are proving a great team on ESPN on the Italian and Spanish leagues and Adrian Healy is proving to be an excellent link man in the Press pass section for ESPN sports. Does any one have any back ground information on Adrian Healy who is obviously a Teesside local by his comments about the Boro.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | September 25, 2008 12:54 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

Bit of info on Steven Defour : He is the captain of Standard Liege and an established international at the tender age of 20 years old. He was voted man of the match in Euro away games at both Liverpool and Everton. He is desrcibed as a "diminutive playmaker with pace and guile". A Belgian Juninho?!! However it is only September, more than three months to the transfer window. Lots of games to battle out and a lot of interest from other clubs to overcome before we think about a Boro team containing Steven Defour.

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | September 25, 2008 4:06 PM

Ken wrote...

AV - the concept of a blog is not as a discussion forum (although I do enjoy the comments), but so that someone who has expertise, such as yourself, can comment on events very quickly after they happen.

Lately however, there are articles on the Gazette Boro page long before you comment in your blog, and the blog merely becomes yet another article. I would rather see your elaborate musings in the article section, and instead see more timely short comments from you here in the blog.

PS Are the Boro journos afraid to talk about the double standard at MFC, i.e. saying " we want competition for places " and then implementing the usual " the big names are exempt " policy that was so reviled when it was used by Sven and McClaren for England. It seems that "local lads" are exempt from taking a stint in the reserves when warranted...

**AV writes: I partly agree with you about the function of the blog and in an ideal world I would be able to combine both functions, considered pieces and shorter observations, however there are certain on-going technical issues of late that have prevented me having the instant access I would like and there are also the physical limitations of the space-time continuum. I can't be in two places at once.

For instance (sob story incoming....) I didn't finish writing for the Gazette - my primary employment - until 3am after getting back from Old Trafford then had to be in the next morning to write up player interviews and do my normal work. When I got home I had to be a dad and have a life for a while and at some point sleep too. Today I have been working hard at the day job as well then played football. Those demands on time as much as anything has prevented me being able to make any considered response to the Pogo tackle hysteria.

That doesn't mean I don't want the blog to get back to being a rolling service with news and views constantly unfolding because I do. And it will. But it has to fit around other things. I'll soon get back to spitting out pieces far more frequently then someone else can complain about not having time for subjects to be developed and hint that I am deliberately stifling debate on behalf of MFC.

As for your PS, are the big names exempt from competition? Really? But for Mido's injury Alves would have been dumped on the bench at Sunderland and he's the £12.7m record signing. The main restraint on competition is the thinness of the squad rather than any particular policy. The only one who is really a shoe-in is Downing. You are not suggesting playing in the stiffs and giving, say, Emnes a start there are you?

Posted by: Ken  | September 25, 2008 6:17 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

AV - your reply to Ken's 6.17pm post:

No-one should be exempt from a game in the "Stiffs". It might on occasion benefit a player, even a player who is normally a "shoe-in" for the First XI, for example if that player is out of form, or needs a run-around in a competitive game when coming back after injury.

An out of form player, free from the pressure of playing in a full league game and before 28,000 (or whatever) can have a good run out. He might hope to have a good game, maybe score a goal or make a couple, and realise that he is still the good footballer he always was. He can regain his confidence.

Good players do not suddenly become poor ones. Injury, unfitness and lack of confidence can take the edge off performance, though. Playing well for the "Stiffs" can help rehablitate the First Team player in terms of fitness and in restoring the damaged confidence.

Going down into the reserves can be a positive thing. Restored, our player (even a favoured left-wing son) can the hopefully take the First XI by storm again.

That is the theory, anyway. It also has the advantage of showing ALL the team that they are expected to maintain a level of performance and that, if they don't, someone else will be knocking on the Manager's door for his chance. That is not to say players should be dropped after one poor game, but if there is becoming a trend of diminishing performances, no player should assume he has a divine right to a place in the team. It is, after all, meant to be a TEAM game.

Over the years, including some in which he was clearly the best left-winger in Europe, Ryan Giggs was often left on the Bench by Alex Ferguson. He was "rested" for games knowing that the Arsenal game (or another high profile game where it was considered vital he should play) was next up, he was sometimes only brought on as a substitute. If it's good enough for Ryan Giggs......

I hope you can soon sort out the technical issues you have referred to, but sadly there will always only be 24 hours in a day. Maybe you could give up sleep, or have two hours a night during the football season on the basis you can sleep all the way through June and July?

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | September 25, 2008 9:21 PM

CHRIS wrote...

Well Vic after seeing Emnes on video prior to signing and preseason he looks to be a cracking player and i cannot understand why he hasn't played much as he can play left ,right or through the middle....another head scratcher bareing in mind we were short just a week ago....

Posted by: CHRIS  | September 25, 2008 9:22 PM

Denis wrote...

Next two games are pivotal for GS,win both we are top 8, lose or draw then signs of improvement and early season promise evaporates. We are not showing intelligence on the pitch and we suffered from a lack of leadership at Man Utd. We will need both on Saturday to win, but from whom? Silver words from Southgate will not do if we lose, we have to win well and with conviction.
I am not holding my breath!!

Posted by: Denis  | September 25, 2008 11:45 PM

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