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Young Exit Raises Stakes For Southgate

Posted by on August 7, 2008 10:46 AM | 

LETTING Luke Young go is a disaster. Cashing in on fringe players is one thing but selling your best performers - and let's be emphatic about this, Luke Young was the best perfromer last season - is a high-risk strategy that sends out chilling messages to supporters, to the rest of the dressing room and to other clubs.

To the fans it screams a lack of ambition, that we have become a selling club that sees transfer dealings as purely financial arrangement srather than long term structural investments and even hints that we are edging back towards being a selling club. To the other players, especially the more ambitious players, it suggests that any hopes of winning things may have to be played out elsewhere and that their own futures are far from secure if good offers are likely to be accepted. And to other clubs it is a green light to move in with predatory bids for the players that had previously been thought to be cast iron first team fixtures. If Luke Young is available, for whatever reason, then why not Stewy Downing?

Young is a brilliant player, a solid defender with a cool head and a potent attacking force. He has energy, good control, excellent distribution and is strong in the tackle. It is incredible he hasn't been a regular in the England team - he is better than Wes Brown - and surely only the fact that he is not playing for a bigger side is keeping him out. Indded, that may well be a factor in his own thinking.

Coming the week before the season starts it is doubly worrying. It is a political and startegic disaster. Had it come early in pre-season it could be factored in. Now, it leaves a club who already have a questionmark over the key position of keeper - there is literally no number one - suddenly without its most stabilising, consistent, injury-free and experienced performer. Unless there is an ace up Southgate's sleeve the unmistakeable air of pre-season optimism will be replaced with an air of endemic panic.

Southgate had already taken a massive gamble with his stance on the keeping position. In letting such an important player leave on the eve of the season has doubled the stakes.


Comments (162)

smoggypaul wrote...

I had hoped to read some words along the lines of 'don't panic, it's covered', but now I'm more worried than ever. I can't help wondering what has stimulated this, seemingly inevitable, exit?

Your words "It is incredible he hasn't been in the England team and surely only the fact that he is not playing for a bigger side is keeping him out. Indded, that may well be a factor in his own thinking." - is this a clue? Was Young uncommitted to the cause this year and Gate decided to act now rather than let a farce ensue??

There MUST be a 'Plan B' - going forward we've looked OK in pre-season, but the goals leaked is a real worry and clearly we have some defensive issues, so moving Young on just makes no sense. OK we double our money from the sound of it, but £2.5m to £5m is hardly earth shattering and he still represents a snip at that price.

I was looking forward with eager anticipation for a change, now I'm back to 'here we go again'.....Keep Repeating, PLAN B, PLAN C, PLAN B, PLAN C THERE MUST BE A PLAN THERE MUST.......

Posted by: smoggypaul  | August 7, 2008 11:42 AM

Paul wrote...

This transfer scares me no end but you can see why its been done. Young was captured on the cheap after serious injury, more than likely he would of been on a wage on par with the leading earners at the club, so when Gibson is faced with doubling his money, scrapping a high wage and easing the debt issues you can see his thinking. I only hope a bargain replacement is in talks at the very least.

Posted by: Paul  | August 7, 2008 11:44 AM

Andy wrote...

I am actually furious, this has to be worst managerial decicion southgate could ever have made. Young was by far our most consistent performer and there is going to be a serious backlash from the fans if quality new signings are not brought in quickly....it feels like one massive kick in the teeth, i knew it was too good to be true to be feeling optimistic about the new season!

Posted by: Andy  | August 7, 2008 11:50 AM

Rainman007 wrote...

What is Southgate thinking? Letting one of our better more proven players leave so close to the start of the new season.

So who is going to play at right back now? We only have Tony McMahon and although when he has been given the chance he has proved he is a good player, he has an uncanny nack of picking up serious injuries. With this in mind he will be lucky to play for the entire season and so then who would we turn to?

I agree with Vickers if we are seen to be selling our first teamers then who is next to go, Wheater, Downing, Alves?
Southgate said only last week that he didn't want to sell any more players, so why are we? Surely we can't need more money, after shedding god knows how many millions from the wage bill by releasing Fabio R, Dong Gook, Mendi and Schwarzer add to the that £4.5M from Boateng and Catts transfers.

Posted by: Rainman007  | August 7, 2008 11:50 AM

Lee Drury wrote...

I can't believe it. Even though we have spent very little, there was an air of optimism amongst the fans, but now that has been shattered as far as I am concerned. I think this proves we are now willing to sell anyone as long as we make a little profit. I can't wait to here the explanation for this one.

Posted by: Lee Drury  | August 7, 2008 11:57 AM

chris t wrote...

what a gamble and more than likely what a nightmare!!! i cant see any right backs who are available who would improve us in the slightest. chimbonda has his moments but we have missed the boat on that one already!! compounded with missing various good sound solid gks, my optomisim for the new season has instantly evapourated!

AV - has this move been in the pipeline, therefore GS would have a plan, or has it come out of the blue, therefore meaning GS doesnt have a plan?

**AV writes: I don't think it was in the pipeline for long. Young was in the team picture taken two days ago.

Posted by: chris t  | August 7, 2008 12:00 PM

jiffy wrote...

There has to be something here we have not been told about.

was it Young who hadnt settled and not O-Neill?

was it another Ziege-style contract clasue inserted by the player to the effect of if an ofer of 5m comes in OR an offer from a club in Europe he has to be told about it?

was there a Southgate-Young bust-up?

or is it just a case of anyone can go if we make a profit - so Southgate has nos ay what happens - if that is the case how can he just sit back and accept any plans he might make being undermined from the boardroom?

Yes AV you are right - this smacks of the old Boro pre-Gibson. This is 1970s/80s Boro all over again.

Posted by: jiffy  | August 7, 2008 12:00 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Agree totally. I cannot believe that we have sold Young willingly - surely he must be unsettled or wanted a move to Villa (a team that can offer European football).

As you say, Gareth has really put his head on the block with some of his decisions this summer - we all knew this was the season he had to deliver, even more so now.

I'm looking forward to hear what he thinks about the sale.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 7, 2008 12:01 PM

dazlid wrote...

AV,

Absolutely spot on. I cannot believe this piece of news, we are going to be hit by late bids for all kinds of players and the squad is going to be de-stabilised.

I think Tony McMahon is a good player and will become a top quality player, but he is not yet the finished article and needs someone like LY to look up to and learn from.
We do not have a ready made replacement and I do not see anyone else in the league that I would rather have at right back. Youngy has been sound all season, even during his "settling in" period.

I was starting to feel quite confident about the new season, if this news has wobbled an ardent supporter, what will it do to the players whose careers and futures could be on the line.

I think GS is showing his naivety with this move, I fully understand the financial incentive for making a good profit, but not when he is arguably your most consistent performer.

Posted by: dazlid  | August 7, 2008 12:06 PM

bewarethespin wrote...

You've said it all AV, watch the optimism dissipate in hours as everyone heads back to the trenches. It's a mugs game supporting the Boro, always was, always will be.

Posted by: bewarethespin  | August 7, 2008 12:23 PM

chris wrote...

I am a little bit concerned that this has happened so close to season starting. Meaning if any new player were to come in they won't off been involved in all the pre season games.

People will say its good business financially and i agree. Making quick money on a 29 year old. However from a playing perspective it was the only last week Southgate was concerned with the lack of experience the squad had.

Secondly people will say we have people to cover the position i.e. McMahon, Hines, Williams. However McMahon is coming back after 2yrs of injuries and Williams is actually a CB by trade. Hines is also a CB by trade but in fact is actually injured at the moment and has not featured during the pre season. Add to this that Riggott and Pogatetz are not 100% fit this is risky.

I just wonder if we will now buy a RB not a CM if money is tight because we still need to bulk up the CM as Arca is injured. This shows how fragile our squad actually is as with 7 subs each games we need 18 players every week.

People will say we have the youngsters but I know how the fans can quickly turn and the promise of youth may be destroyed if the season starts badly.

What do you think?

Posted by: chris  | August 7, 2008 12:28 PM

James wrote...

I am absolutely disgusted by this decision so close to the season. How can GS even contemplate this. He now has the job of finding a new midfielder a new right back and a new keeper in a week and 2 days and if he does not get at least 2 of these positions filled and we have a bad start to the season then it just might be the final nail in his coffin.

Posted by: James  | August 7, 2008 12:28 PM

AbuDhabi Cliff wrote...

Well that`s done it. With Luke Young being sold the feelings of cautious optimism have become feelings of impending disaster. Its not that one player makes that massive a difference (although Young was our best player last season), it`s the signals that this sends out. We`re apparently a selling club destined to be mired in mid-table - if we`re lucky. And don`t even mention the keeper situation. Alves has got to be in form of his life this season to try and score more goals than the defence are sure to concede.
Oh dear!

Posted by: AbuDhabi Cliff  | August 7, 2008 12:31 PM

James Carter wrote...

Excellent distribution?? I always thought away from home he was a weak link. The Gate must have other options - if McMahon can play as well as he did in his 1st season then it's good business and could Hines or Huth not do a job there? I was sat in the Spurs end for our match there and they were all glad to be rid of him.... Great effort and engine but I'm not too bothered...

Posted by: James Carter  | August 7, 2008 12:31 PM

Mr-T wrote...

Southgate is uneccessarily exposing his already dodgy keepers by letting Young go like this. McMahon did OK on Tuesday v Darlington but he is way off the pace still, and he doesn't have the speed, power, and drive that Young has anyway. It's OK saying we have lots of talent coming through but that potential has to be realised. In the meantime we need GOOD players and Young is one of those. Very disappointed.

Posted by: Mr-T  | August 7, 2008 12:39 PM

MrEdd wrote...

Well done someone at the gazette actually finally says something truthful and crtical at the club. This is a terrible blow for the team and all supporters FACT.

Posted by: MrEdd  | August 7, 2008 12:40 PM

Graeme wrote...

Anthony, spot on with your comments, the most worrying thing is how Southgate has been feeding us all about the clubs ambition this close season.

This is not ambition. This is the biggest kick in teeth and the clubs dishonesty with the fans is unacceptable in what i can only imagine was a failing attempt to secure more season tickets.

They should have come out at the end of the season and said that money is not available. Bitterly disappointed with the club for the first time in years.

Posted by: Graeme  | August 7, 2008 12:45 PM

frm wrote...

Boro are sell sell selling; doesn't Young want to stay with a forward thinking club with prospects ? Young joined thinking the England management would be watching the likes of Woodgate. A few seasons ago, Villa players were coming to Boro in droves (including Southgate). We haven't heard much recently from the chairman or the chief executive, the usual form. Where is the extra £30 million clubs are getting from the TV ?

It's the habitual bull shine , possibly now the small time off the field organisation realising they ARE small time. As Southgate has repeatedly (too often) said, he is balancing the books, but he's supposed to be a football manager in the making, not an accountant. Maybe Mrs Gibson has the answers.

Posted by: frm  | August 7, 2008 12:47 PM

Narcolepsy wrote...

I think you are over-reacting a little
My first response to Young leaving was also shock. But then I thought about it and decided it was good business.
Young did a job last season, but he is by no means the best right back Boro have had or in the premiership at the moment. Abel Xavier was better (no I'm not on the same stuff he was... :) ). Anyway, if we are that reliant on one player, then we are in big trouble. Young could easily have been injured in the first game or in the match with Rotterdam...
Yes, I also worry about Tony McMahon - he makes Malcolm Christie look indestructible... but I think he has the ability to be better than Young.
But I think that losing Jonathan Woodgate was far worse for the defence than losing Luke Young, and we (sort of) survived that.
Kevin.

**AV writes: It is only good business if you can replace him with better quality , or the same quality more cheaply. I already thought the squad was light on defensive cover.

Posted by: Narcolepsy  | August 7, 2008 12:54 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

All you say is true - and reflects the content of the thread on the topic that started in the previous section.

But if all of that is true why is the tone of that nice Mr. Paylor's piece in the Gazette so upbeat - starting, as it does, with an assertion that this is in some way a good piece of business.

It's only good business in the narrow sense that we may have sold a player for more than we bought him for a year ago.

In every other sense - as you and we have pointed out - it's a shockingly bad piece of business.

One is reminded of Dickensian quotes about people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

I shall hold back on further comment until I've heard more from MFC and Gate about why they have done this and quite what they propose to do about it now.

I fear the pronouncement may be infuriating.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 7, 2008 12:55 PM

simon Mitchell wrote...

This sends out the wrong message to Boro fans worldwide. How can we sell our most consistent performer from last season.
Southgate must have a worldclass right back almost signed to appease the masses.
C'mon Boro.

Simon..... USA

Posted by: simon Mitchell  | August 7, 2008 12:57 PM

Alex wrote...

This sounds like a disaster.

Ok, 5mil for a 29-year-old, on paper, looks like a good deal. But Young was invaluable for us last season. A real bargain.

Just who is there to replace him? Tony McMahon's the only recognised right-back that springs to mind, but can his glass legs handle the step-up to consistent Premiership football week-in-week-out?

Hopefully Southgate hasn't forgotten the carry-on of finding a right back after Reiziger left a couple of years ago and has something big that were not hearing.

If sacrificing Young is just to pave the way for another holding midfielder like James Harper though - I'm sorry. No deal, for me.

Posted by: Alex  | August 7, 2008 1:00 PM

Nick Hill wrote...

I am in shock at this announcement, i just cannot believe southgate has agreed to this, 5mil is a lot of money for a right back but then again 5mil wont replace young with the same amount of quality, it shows little ambition, would everton sell one of there better players in lescott for a fee of 5mil? they certainly would not.
Once again we will start the season with holes in the squad and i am just waiting for southgate to come out and say he has confidence players like mcmahon, hines and whoever else can fight it out for the right back slot, bit like what he did with the keeper situation.
I arent going to mention any number of names who we could potentially sign because thats southgates job and hopefully southgate and the scouts have a bit of sense and go and look for a quality right back replacement and not what we did a few years ago by picking up an aging xavier on a short term deal.

I renewed my season ticket but things like this just makes me sick, it would ease the pain if we found out there was a quality replacement set up but i cant see that happening. I really felt young ccould be our man for a number of years, he brought solid and quality to the defence, he was my player of the year last season and the man you can always depend on, selling him is a tterrible, wrong choice to make

Posted by: Nick Hill  | August 7, 2008 1:02 PM

Craig wrote...

As the usual pre-season gossip of every Boro on the move to another club, I thought this was another headline to sell papers (in the south!). However it appears to be true and I have to agree with you AV that aside from the financial aspect, the sale of Young is not good. In particular, having had a good pre-season, it seems a bit retro-grade to sell a player that must have been one of the first names on the team sheet.

I can only hope the GS has something up his sleeve and we are not going to be subjected to Jones/Turnbull style battle for the right back slot!!!

Posted by: Craig  | August 7, 2008 1:06 PM

Tom Pringle wrote...

Sell our best signing of last year when our only back-up is a perma crock and a kid who's never played in the first team.

And as for Harper...why have we spent the summer obsessed with this no-mark who didn't stand out in a relegated team? A poor man's Robbie Mustoe.

What signal does this send out to Downing, Johnson, Alves the next time Spurs or Man City or someone else with money to burn comes along (bearing in mind that Spurs just offered £15m for Dean Ashton)

It shows a complete lack of ambition. There had better be a damn good excuse for this.

I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: Tom Pringle  | August 7, 2008 1:22 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Gobsmacked, devastated, disgusted and absolutely livid.

AV, your last blog was about which sides Boro will match up with this season. I'm afraid that the loss of Young so late might put us back into category D and probably fending off relegation yet again - so much for the talk of pushing on for a top 8 spot. If this had happened earlier in the Summer I definitely wouldn't have renewed my season card.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | August 7, 2008 1:23 PM

Jonny Rondo wrote...

As long as the club doesn't go the way of Leeds they can sell who they want.

Trying to be self sufficient is the way forward, if the tv deal gets pulled for some reason we'll be well placed to deal with it where as other clubs will be facing financial ruin.

I hope McMahon can find his form of old, with a run in the team he hopefully can get back there.

Yong was a good right back for us, but it's not the end of the world.

Posted by: Jonny Rondo  | August 7, 2008 1:25 PM

davwind wrote...

This does at first seem to be a real problem deal for the BORO especially as you say 8 days before the big kick off. But let's not hit the panic button just yet. Tony Mcmahon seemed to have first choice right back slot booked for a few years to come before his succession of injuries and is back fighting for a contract beyond next year. Maybe its time for Seb Hines to step forward.

Southgate has mentioned previously that ARSENAL and MAN CITY amongst other clubs gave youth their head last year with decent results. It does seem worth mentioning that YOUNG is 30 years of age and a decent profit(according to reports) of £3 million plus is not to be discounted.

Southgate was a top quality defender and should know what it takes to put a tight defensive unit together. Whose to say this wouldn't pave the way for the new arrivals Southgate said last week would still happen. Remember the furore when Woodgate left citing lack of ambition but Wheater hasn't proved a bad successor has he?

Things were progressing so well pre-season let's not remove the excitement that the majority of us were feeling because one player has "gone back south". Players will come always and go. Keep the faith the transfer window will throw open a few more surprises yet!

Posted by: davwind  | August 7, 2008 1:26 PM

Johnathan wrote...

Im really angry about this transfer and the state of our transfer dealings as whole. No experienced goalkeeper, No Experienced CM to partner Digard and Now No Right Back!

To be honest and know people will shoot be down for saying this but it has "lacks ambition" all over it, what must be rolling through Downings head right now - we tell him he can fufil his ambitions here but then sell our best players! I honestly couldnt blame the lad if he wanted to leave and play for a new club.

I feel like i have paid my season ticket money to go and watch the Under 18s play, i applaud southgate for bringing through the youngsters but normally this is done with a mixture of experience - and there isnt any!

We have Sold/Released..
Schwarzer, Boateng, Cattermole, Young, Rochemback, Dong Gook-Lee, Gaizka Mendieta

and brought in...
Emnes, Digard

has anyone got any spare packing tape to fill in the holes??

(sorry about the rant...but needs must...)

Posted by: Johnathan  | August 7, 2008 1:27 PM

Si wrote...

Bryan Robson: Promises repeatedly broken.

Steve McClaren: More concerned about his ego than the club.

Gareth Southgate: Creates hurdles, overcomes them startlingly well to give us new promise... only to create a new hurdle and face repeating the process.

Yes, we survived the sale of Vids, the sale of the Yak and the sale of Woody. But is "surviving" enough? How long before the likes of Wheater, Downing and Alves run out of patience?

I found the news a little hard to take this morning but then consoled myself with the fact that £5m was good business for a 29-year old, and we had cover. However, Vic, your article has brought me crashing down to earth. I still don't believe Luke actually wanted to leave us, but rather that Boro's bankers wanted the extra cash. That, and his head was probably turned by the temptations of European football, the international scene and city life.

I can picture the smirks on Toon fans' faces getting wider and wider by the minute.

Posted by: Si  | August 7, 2008 1:34 PM

mark wrote...

This isn't just shooting yourself in the foot. It is an above the knee amputation. What a clear lack of vision

Posted by: mark  | August 7, 2008 1:44 PM

roger wrote...

never mind a right back going,the most crucial part of a good side is a class keeper even though a lot of folk will disagree with me i rated mark swartzer as a first class premier league goalie.the keepers we are left with arent that bad but neither one is of premiership quality,watch the goals against column this season

Posted by: roger  | August 7, 2008 1:45 PM

john mac wrote...

I can't see why people are getting so upset about Young going. Yes I'm sad to see him go but doubling your money in 1 year on a 29 year old steady eddie is good business for the club.
Like it or not Southgate has to balance the books at Boro & has to look at each deal on merit, this IS a good deal.
We have had dwindling attendances for a few years now & we have to rely on wheeling & dealing in the transfer market. Mcmahon is a good player & is a readymade replacement with plenty of games under his belt, yes he has to keep fit but then the same can be said for the whole squad.
Again like it or not EVERY Boro player has their price, even Downing.

Posted by: john mac  | August 7, 2008 2:13 PM

David Morrison wrote...

In recent years ive not heard an outcry such as this over the sale of one player.

The masses are gutted that such a quality player is leaving for what seems like a snip at £5 million. Young was our best player last year and i dont think anyone will dispute this fact. He was quality and showed real class throughout the season.

My thoughts are he must have had a £5 million clause in his contract and his someone has leaked it to villa once he knew they where interested. Can't blame him for going like but it shouldnt be this way. With Young we had a chance of catching villa now he has swapped us for them that step seems even further and further away.

Group C AV? Make that Group D now unless we get 3 quality players in. Keeper, Attackin Midfielder, Right back.

Shocking MFC, really shocking

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 7, 2008 2:13 PM

Peter Griffiths wrote...

Received my season tickets this morning at the same time as the news about Young. The accompanying blurb talks about moving forward and positive transfer activity but, as everyone else says, this weakens the team considerably, removes the most consistent performer and sends out all the wrong messages a week before the season starts. A real kick in the teeth ! The club will have to come up with some very good answers and a replacement fast.

Posted by: Peter Griffiths  | August 7, 2008 2:14 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

My paper said Gate 'reluctantly agreed' to let him go. His arm twisted up his back may have helped.

Whatever the reason for him leaving will make no difference to the line up for the first match. With the niggles we have it looks like

Jones/Turnbull
McMahon, Wheats, Huth, Taylor.

A very young(less) and inexperienced defence and a real danger of a rocky start to the season.

The messages are distinctly rocky. We are either concentration on debt management or Young was unhappy. If it was the latter the rumour mill is normally in action for far longer than in this case.

Truth is it doesnt matter, the fans who were looking forward to the brave new world are now waiting for 'typical Boro' to reappear. Many may think they already have.

Poor Neil Bausor is building bridges but someone is blowing them up behind him.

A terrible piece of business that is sending all the wrong messages to everyone involved at the club and the outside world. Gate is now on a hiding to nothing with few senior pros in his squad and only likely to get in scraps, plodders and money grabbing old pros.

Renewed my Boro World sub, paid for my Pride Card, planning to attend the Spurs match. Hoping to persuade my son to go before he flies back to US on Sunday 17th. Gloomy is the word.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 7, 2008 2:23 PM

Birdie wrote...

Got to say that I was shocked when I read the news. However, I think we need to wait and see what the manager and chairman have to say (I presume the Evening Gazette is on the case).

We need to remember that Gibbo is a Boro fan, and I presume savvy enough to realise that there's no profit in football. He also supports his manager.

For now, based on previous quotes from the manager, I assume that either something untoward has happened to the club's finances that required this move, or the player himself has decided it suits him and GS has accepted that if that's the way the player wants to go then there's no point in keeping him as a potential de-stabilising influence.

If it's the latter, then it depends on how much notice GS had of the situation and whether he has already been considering cover for the position (taking account of most people's concerns about the position without Young). He has said that he is always looking to strenghten the team, without being specific about which positions. It might be that the club is playing it's cards close to it's chest until a signing is in the bag.

Posted by: Birdie  | August 7, 2008 2:25 PM

si wrote...

I thought abosolute disaster until i heard the latest rumour. Steve Finnan apparently is in talks with the club. Not a bad signing if cheap and has bags of premiership and european experience. A year or two out of him with mcmahon learning off him would mean getting 5mil for young is good business.

Posted by: si  | August 7, 2008 2:26 PM

Davey Smith wrote...

Now I understand we need to sell to buy, but in no way do we need to get rid of one of our most consistent players last season at right back.


I've said to people time and time again, I back Gareth Southgate and his management team 100%. But how can anyone defend this move? As other people have stated - Mcmahon is injury prone and one that i wouldn't put my hopes in. We need to bring somebody really experienced in and somebody who is better then Young, or there will be problems with the fans and Gareth.

Posted by: Davey Smith  | August 7, 2008 2:29 PM

Dave wrote...

Spot on A.V This bit of business smacks of small club thinking which I thought we had seen the last of at the Boro. could it be Mr Gibson has had enough of looking out over empty red seats and hoping the thousands of fickle missing fans return.I hope we are a bit premature in the dismay and doom and by the end of the day are linked with three or four quality signings, I doubt it

Posted by: Dave  | August 7, 2008 2:47 PM

John B - Aberdeen wrote...

If this nonsense IS all about money would you rather have today: Digard (all promise, limited experience, some cover) plus £1m or Young (proven talent in an area where we're thin)?
If it isn't about money then why do we seem to have had so many unsettled players in the past year or so? Young would be just the latest in a distinguished line.

Posted by: John B - Aberdeen  | August 7, 2008 2:49 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

And now we hear Arca will be out for weeks and we will be looking for a central midfield player. We have needed that since May.

We are also told that there may well be a new keeper brought in - and that takes me back to the lunacy of stating categorically that there will be no new keeper. Another player we have needed since May.

It is starting to unravel and there is the fear that it will do so at an alarming rate. It is very close to the seasons start.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 7, 2008 2:55 PM

Mohammad Abdullah wrote...

A.V.

A year or so ago I was called "an idiot" on this board for suggesting that asset stripping was in full swing at the Riverside.

A year on we have sold, Morrison, Yakubu, Woodgate, Cattermole and now Young, as well as releasing Schwarzer, Viduka, Boateng, Rochemback etc.

If that is not asset stripping I do not know what is.

Why do contribtors to the board think that Southgate has anything to do with the transfers in or out? I am sure he is in charge of team affairs only. Just think back, when Schwarzer moved on, it was the Count who first said we have two good replacements set to battle it out, this was immediately used by the "on message" Southgate.

Before I am condemned by the glad handers or those who think that a big money signing is lined up, I am still optimistic, we still have a lot of talent in the squad, if they are handled properly, who knows we may spring a few surprises

Best of luck Gareth, I have a feeling you are going to need it.

Posted by: Mohammad Abdullah  | August 7, 2008 2:58 PM

gt wrote...

relax,young gave 100% yes,but i always felt ,he wasnt as good defencively,and if you wish to attack,more you need good cover at the back,(genuine defenders)anyway i hear they are after Stenson the rb at Bolton ,who i think is better than young,we tried for him last year

Posted by: gt  | August 7, 2008 3:00 PM

gt wrote...

relax,he was a good tryer,but poor defencively,were after Stenson at bolton we tried to get him last year,and hes younger and stronger

Posted by: gt  | August 7, 2008 3:02 PM

Tony wrote...

Shocking, absolutely shocking. I am gutted.

Posted by: Tony  | August 7, 2008 3:05 PM

David Morrison wrote...

BORO WEBSITE IS SHOCKING, ITS PUT SOUTHGATE INTERVIEW ABOUT YOUNG ON BORO WORLD SO YOU HAVE TO PAY.
AV can you het any snippets of quotes from SG about why he has gone?

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 7, 2008 3:26 PM

karl parker wrote...

I cannot belive Gareth is going to let Young go. I go on the Boro website everyday with out fail to seen if there is any news ie new players in. The last thing i expected to see was Young going to villa, and Boro also acccepting the offer. Crazy.

I am a season ticket holder and for me Young was amazing last season best right back Ive seen at boro for years, so consistent. So who is going to replace him now? Hines? Williams? Mcmahon? i really dont think so.

And also another worrying fact for me now is not only we are short on a right back goal keeper as well. Mr Southgate this one could certainly come back and bite you.

One very worried season ticket holder and life long boro fan.

Posted by: karl parker  | August 7, 2008 3:27 PM

London-based Boro Fan wrote...

How *can* the reason for Young's departure for Villa be that he was unsettled, unless he was lying through his teeth when he gave his interview to Radio Tees (extract on the Beeb's web site here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/middlesbrough/7537835.stm)?

If that is the case, he deserves the same sort of barracking from Boro fans when he returns to The Riverside as that meted out to Gareth Barry by some Villa fans! In the absence of a credible explanation, Gareth Southgate couldn't have found a better way to forfeit the loyalty of Boro fans if he'd tried! :(

Posted by: London-based Boro Fan  | August 7, 2008 3:35 PM

John B - Aberdeen wrote...

This is an e-mail I sent to MFC this afternoon. I will post any reply.

"On a day when most fans are furious at the sale of Young it beggars belief that most will be denied access to Southgate's first interview on the subject. It's only available to Boro World subscribers. This is another kick in the teeth for the average long suffering fan and another PR disaster from MFC."

Posted by: John B - Aberdeen  | August 7, 2008 4:03 PM

tim from sa wrote...

I think GS the fans will now call in your chirp about 'one out, one in'... you owe us replacements for Catts and now Young.

Lacking senior players was also a chirp, now what? Opening day no captain, and no senior rb and no experianced keeper - this is a disaster all good work done now blown away. Can't wait to hear the clubs response to this one

Posted by: tim from sa  | August 7, 2008 4:06 PM

Halifax Red wrote...

Same old Boro! Season tickets go out along with our best player. Looks like we are preparing for life in the Championship!

Posted by: Halifax Red  | August 7, 2008 4:10 PM

Graham Forrest wrote...

Worrying....

News says we are looking to get Justin Hoyte off the gunners.

Posted by: Graham Forrest  | August 7, 2008 4:16 PM

David Morrison wrote...

ITS A DISGRACE.
The offer was to good to turn down? hang on a minute he was our best player last season and hes only going for £5million? Shorey is also going for £4 million so when ya look at it is he £1million better than him? Baines last year £6million, everton wanna sell, chimbonda £6million £56,000 a week at sunderland. Its average money for a quality player, we needed cover for right back aswell so now hes gone its even more players we need. hope we dont get struck down with a mystery flu bug around December time.... oh dear

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 7, 2008 4:35 PM

NEIL READER wrote...

TWO WORDS 2SAY ON THE SALE OF LUKE YOUNG "SOUTHGATE OUT"

Posted by: NEIL READER  | August 7, 2008 4:58 PM

Rich wrote...

blahhh blahhhh blahhhh blahhhhh

Yes he was a consistant performer last season, he was neat, tidy and efficient with the rare bit of skill down the flank. But at the end of the day, we got him for a cheap price, making a good profit, releasing another high earner and someone who is approaching there 30s.

Yes he may have another consistant season next year and maybe the one after but then we are left with a high earning right back nobody wants. Boro are creating a team of youth and energy and if Young doesent want to be apart of this, then so be it.

Boro have already announced they plan to make a quick replacment - Justin Hoyte looks like a good bet. Jimmy Bullard for 3 million please!

Posted by: Rich  | August 7, 2008 5:03 PM

Dennis Wilson wrote...

Totally disgusted,

Gareth should come out and explain this now, and explain why we do not have a keeper either,

Im absolutely gutted.....

Posted by: Dennis Wilson  | August 7, 2008 5:10 PM

chris wrote...

Ok Gareth says the offer was too good to turn down....i can see egg on his face when as he says he tries to replace /sign another

Posted by: chris  | August 7, 2008 5:39 PM

Matt A wrote...

I am just as annoyed about the Young sale as most of the other fans on here.

Let's look at the close season deals as a whole...

Out:
Rochemback
LDG
Mendieta
Schwarzer
Boateng
Cattermole
Goulon
Young

In:
Digard
Emnes

That is 8 players out, with 2 in. !!!!!

Not exactly a case of strengthening the squad IMO. Just getting Schwarzer & Mendieta out should have freed up over 3Million per annum in wages.

Our squad should be increasing in size, not shrinking.

The only plus point can be the managers comments that he will be looking to replace Young as soon as the transfer is completed.

We need at least 2 new players in, & before next Sat ideally. A new RB & a creative midfielder are the minimum requirement. If they are not recruited before the deadline day at the end of the month, the club hierarchy could find the goodwill of the Boro fans is lost completely.

Matt

Posted by: Matt A  | August 7, 2008 5:59 PM

John Powls wrote...

Now seen what Gate says on the MFC site.

Relaxed, huh! Expecting the unexpected? Bring in a quality replacement before the season starts.

Problem is Gate, given what's happened, how do we believe a word that you say, now? And more to the point, how do the players.

Having met the man, I have to believe that he was as taken by surprise by this as were the rest of us - including Luke Young.

He doesn't have much choice now but to take the party line but I cannot believe now that he has any say whatsoever in transfer matters except for the identification of who he may want as targets or to move on.

The decisions on who we buy and let go are clearly now in the hands of The Count and Gibbo - maybe they always were - and Gate should more properly be called First Team Coach than Manager.

My suggestion in future, AV, is that the Gazette addresses all questions on transfers to The Count and Gibbo directly. I notice they are both conspicuous by their absence.

All the stuff from some few on this blog about Young must have wanted away or he must have had a release clause or he's had a row with Gate as they try to make sense of this debacle is clearly not right.

Gate has admitted as much and it will be revealed as such when Young says shortly that he knew nothing about it until the club told him the offer had come in and they'd accepted it.

There's no grand plan on Gate's or The Count's part to replace Young either or they'd have kept this under wraps until they'd sorted the replacement out.

Of the other right backs that have been mentioned as maybe being available - Finnan and Hoyte - Hoyte is a flying machine but his defensive frailties were shown up many times last season.

That leaves Finnan who is clearly surplus at The Scousers but who has always seemed OK to me and he's younger than Young.

Tying him up in the next day or two may salve the wounds a little. But either way you'd not choose to do this now unless you had no choice.

But you can't help feeling that we'll end up with some out of contract loafer like the Peroxide Portugueser.

Or the other terrible thought that struck me was that The Count may go for Geremi and make Gate claim him as solving both the right back and midfield problems.

The only remedy is 3 good players through the door in the next few days - and I don't mean Geremi, Harper and some hack superannuated goalie who is prepared to act as stooge to The Corporal and Turnbull.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 7, 2008 6:05 PM

john t. wrote...

Boro are short of money and this may be the beginning of the end of Steve Gibson going it alone (although he is and has been magnificent) it may be time for him to try to bring in another backer/consortium to invest fresh funds , but would his pride accept this ?
Gareth Southgate is not to blame , he HAS to toe the line.
I still think we have a good squad and will score more than we concede.

Posted by: john t.  | August 7, 2008 6:09 PM

Mal from Ingleby wrote...

You're abslutely right AV, this is a crazy, crazy move.

I can't believe this decision, and as for the offer according to Southgate being, 'too good to refuse', well £4m? Too good to refuse? What rubbish. We paid £2.5m so would make £1.5m on the deal. Is Boro, this established Premier league club who are looking to kick on up into the top half of the league so desperate for £1.5m?

Are season ticket sales so poor this time that there is no option but to sell Young?
Has he asked to go? Has there been any hint from the player that he was not happy here? This move begs so many questions and on top of the goalkeeper situation.

Tony McMahon is a good fullback, but has just come back from a long term injury, what if he gets crocked again? As for a replacement for Young, at what price? Does Southgate think he can get as good a fullback on the cheap? Dream on.

It's so difficult not to be negative about this, but having seen the academy players the other night at Darlo and the quality we have coming through, maybe one can rise to the occasion as cover for McMahon. I only hope so.

I'm very very depressed and very very angry. I feel we've been let down badly and the only conclusion I can come to is that the finances of the club must be in a much worse state than we think. Looks like another hard Winter, and just when we thought a bit of global warming was coming to our rescue in the shape of Hull and Stoke Cities.

Mal from Ingleby

Posted by: Mal from Ingleby  | August 7, 2008 6:12 PM

john sully wrote...

gareth southgate.............. what the ?????

Posted by: john sully  | August 7, 2008 6:22 PM

Mainy wrote...

I have just got in from work and read this Luke Young story. What the hell is Southgate thinking about? i know everyone above has already said it but its bang out of order and looks like we are turning into a selling club.

This is Southgte's judgement season and so far he is getting off to a bad start imo. The keeper situation was bad enough but now this.

Does he forget he still has problems on the right wing as well and Young with his experience would have helped bed either Emnes or Aliadiere in there?

Complete lack of ambition from us and I can only think of 2 right backs that are available at the minute.... Stuart Parnaby & Stephen Carr. How many of you would be happy with either of them replacing Young?

Other option is Riggott and McMahon to fight it out. Unless Southgate is planning on using Wheater as a right back as that could be his way of playing Wheats, Poggi & Huth in the same team.

Maybe a change in formation that we havent practiced will happen and he will go 3-5-2.

Posted by: Mainy  | August 7, 2008 6:54 PM

Lee Drury wrote...

After reading GS's views on Youngs impending departure, it seems obvious this is clearly Gibbo's decision. I can't think of any logical reason to sell a class RB and leave yourself a week to get a new one. It is clear now that Gibbo has lost all his ambition and bottle.

Posted by: Lee Drury  | August 7, 2008 6:55 PM

christopher harrison wrote...

Astonished is a gross under exaggeration when learning about the imminent sale of Luke Young to Villa, a profit of about £3 million, so what! A pittance for one of our best players last season and any optimism for the season is now well and trully blown out of the water.

Does this mean that if we get offered a £3 million plus cost bid for any player we will sell? and what signal does this send to the academy lads who cost nothing? Is it my cynical mentality or is it just coincidence that this happens the day season cards are sent out and news that sales are up by at least four figures.

My 14 year old son with his new £97 season card, full of teenage enthusiam said we will finish in a European position, after a brief discussion it was agreed that the big 4, Spurs, Everton, Pompey, Villa, West Ham, Mags, Blackburn and Man City were better teams than us, then thirteenth at best was our conclusion.

Thankfully Hull and Stoke are as good as relegated, West Brom have one foot back in the championship, so we should have another mediocre season, what do other fans class as a good, bad or mediocre season?

On a sad note Sir Bobby Robson is not to well, our thoughts are with you sir bobby a true gentleman and ambassador for the north east and indeed england.

Posted by: christopher harrison  | August 7, 2008 7:15 PM

Graham wrote...

I can't believe this decision was made by Southgate. It smacks more of a business decision by Gibson/Lamb. We ahve searched for years for a top class right back and now we let him go. To think we aspired to compete with the likes of Villa a few years ago.

Posted by: Graham  | August 7, 2008 7:34 PM

Richard wrote...

AV: Two observations on your blog before making a point or two of my own -

1) There are so many typos in it that you must have been really angry when you typed it and banged it up there, and

2) I've never seen your blog to have so many negative response posts in as short a time, on any topic.

This one has clearly touched a few raw nerves amongst the Boro faithful and turned (most of) them into the Boro fretful.

Since finding out about it, I've been trying to keep my powder dry, hoping that there may be a silver lining to the cloud that today descended over Teesside. However, If the silver cloud proves to be a knee-jerk foray into the transfer market for a replacement right back who'll come close to Luke Young's capabilities for less money than we got for Young, it begs the serious question - "Why didn't Aston Villa go for him instead?"

At this stage in the pre-season, only 9 days off the first competitive match, it will also be apparent to clubs who MAY be prepared to release a good right back, that Middlesbrough are now likely to be distressed purchasers and the asking price for their man will go up - or at least they'll hang out for as much as they can get, knowing that Boro are light in that department and of course we've possibly got (at least some of) the money from Luke Young's transfer in the kitty.

If there's a business advantage to Boro's preparedness to part company with one of the best footballers we have (had), it must surely only be the need for cash. Because we're unlikely, at short notice, to get anyone with a better footballing pedigree than Luke Young for a sum that will leave us with change from the cash than we've received.

Once again, money seems to be taking precedence over sporting ambition. I'm beginning to understand a bit more why Jonathan Woodgate went to Spurs and Yak went to Everton.

Middlesbrough have settled for trying to remain a successful BUSINESS in the lower half of the Premier League. And THAT is not the same as a successful football club. Ask your supporters what constitutes a successful football club and the focus will always be on trophies or long cup runs or high league position finishes. NOT mediocrity season after season, but hope for the future based on sporting achievement - NOT what the bloody balance sheet looks like!

Will Middlesbrough supporters be prepared to settle for that?

I know that I won't. Another season of lower mid-table mediocrity and I'm gone! And when I'm gone, I'm gone for good!

Disappointed? Me?

You can bet your sweet touche I am!

**AV writes: Yes there are a lot of typos. I was suffering blog rage. Hopefully I will be able to get to the innards today to do a few corrections. Who can say?

Posted by: Richard  | August 7, 2008 8:16 PM

Nigel from Newcastle wrote...

I am not that bothered. I thought last season he was often slow and ponderous. Tony McMahon was the best right back at the club before and is now. Lets give the local lads a chance.

Posted by: Nigel from Newcastle  | August 7, 2008 8:59 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

AV

Hopefully you are sat at home with a well deserved beer. It must be terrible being a Boro fan who has to keep mum about situations and then being the repsistory of bile. Then you have smarty pants like me who poke fun at you.

I tend not to go on other message boards but am reliably informed that it has been all sweetness and light on the blog compared to elsewhere so there is some relief. I worry that the goodwill has now eroded so that the Spurs match may have an audience waiting to explode. It is all very well wheeling poor Gate out to do his best but it is hardly fair if as we suspect he was left holding the baby. We could all be wrong and we start a week Saturday with reinorcements in place and I will be delighted.

I am going to put you in a very difficult position but will still pose the question. What do the powers that be believe the fans reaction will be. I will also give you a get out - delete this part of the post if it is appropriate, delete it all if you want.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 7, 2008 9:56 PM

Big mets..Boro 4 ever!! wrote...

Ahhhhhh!!! who's next?? what price Downing to go?? i can't believe that after selling Young we are now linked again with Harper/Hoyte....is Harper better than Catts??Hoyte better than Young?....NO!! 8 players out 2 in...do the Math it =s relegation battle.

Posted by: Big mets..Boro 4 ever!!  | August 7, 2008 9:59 PM

stevo wrote...

Panic in the streets of Middlesbrough....
Looks like they are cashing Young in for a tidy profit and have a decent replacement lined up.
Panic over.
Give the club some credit.
We should only truly panic if they opt to sell the Pogo, Wheater, Alves or Stuey, or decide to start the season with Turnbull or Jones in goal.

Posted by: stevo  | August 7, 2008 10:21 PM

ian wrote...

I am absolutely gutted about Boro agreeing to the transfer of Luke Young to Villa.
If Boro do not sign anybody then we all know that the club is in a financial mess and is getting pressure from the bank to reduce its overdraft.
If Young wanted to go (which I do not believe) then Southgate should have said you can go when I have bought a replacement.
The club only said last week that nobody else is leaving then this happens, why should we believe a word the club tells us, wehave constantly been lied to as fans.No doubt that it will be Downing etc that will be sold next.I wrote to the club a while ago asking some direct questions about their debt situation but they did not reply.I think a lot of fans need to realise how much debt that we are in and the money is not owed to Gibson as some people think but to the banks.Gibson and co have used their assets in their holding company as a gurantee to the bank,if the value of those assets has gone down then the bank will be looking for hard cash to reduce their exposure.
It looks like we are in deep poo poo but the club will no doubt try and cover it up.
I was looking forward to the new season but I aint anymore.

Posted by: ian  | August 7, 2008 10:32 PM

Richard wrote...

Luke Young's gone! In his remarks immediately after signing for Villa he is quoted as saying,

"I think this is a great opportunity for me to try and win something. I think at the minute Villa are a notch above Boro and there's a great opportunity for me to play European football as well."

Yes Luke, and as long as MFC continues to sell off our best playing asseets to the clubs we should be seeking to trounce, it will always be the case!!

That's the difference between sporting ambition and business ambition. And so it will continue for as long as we have money dominating "the sport" (which it clearly isn't any more - not in the true sense of the word)

D'you know - the season hasn't even started and I'm sick of it already!

Posted by: Richard  | August 7, 2008 11:32 PM

keith wrote...

The fee isnt £5m its £8.5m iv been told by someone with contacts at the club,far too good to turn down for a player that age. We got a good year out of him an made a cracking profit now we move on.

A new right back will be at the club before the first home game,and we have bids in for three players,could be a new centre midfielder here before Spurs too.

Posted by: keith  | August 8, 2008 12:02 AM

Lee wrote...

It really is quite depressing when you look at most of the other clubs in the premier league who are willing to spend a bit of money. Although I don't think we will go down this season, I think it is only a matter of time before we join Sheff Wed and Notts Forest etc before we disappear into the lower leagues. Why is this happening SG?, an explanation would be nice.

Posted by: Lee  | August 8, 2008 12:49 AM

Lee Drury wrote...

I am one of Steve McClarens biggest critics, but I dont think this sale would have happened if he was here. Do you think Vic, honestly now, that GS had any say in the Young decision?

Posted by: Lee Drury  | August 8, 2008 1:18 AM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Well, Vic, the avalanche of posts so very soon after your piece tells its own story. Pity the poor PR guru who has to attempt to make the sale of Young seem like a masterpiece of strategy.

Pity the journalist who might want to ask the same questions your posters are raising, but realises he hopes to get another interview next week and won’t be welcome if waves are caused. There must be thousands of fans looking at their blank computer screens in disbelief, wondering how to temper their language or they will fall foul of the sensor.

We are told we can only bring players in if there are balancing players going out, and we will all remember hearing “We will only bring players in if they are better than the ones we already have�.

Well on that basis, the right back we would like to believe GS has secretly had in his sights as being “better� than Young must be more than a bit special. Does anyone reading this blog think we are likely to announce the purchase of a right back better than Young? I hope we do, but it wouldn’t be sensible to hold the breath, would it?

Is there a chance of being told, at some stage, what the plan is? I think the football club should realise that, whilst thousands of fans are, and will remain loyal, a sizeable proportion of the fans are not drunk all the time, are not insane and are not so blindly loyal that they will accept every incredible line that may be peddled. If the club really has to sell to pay crushing debts then let us know, chaps!

There is a credit crunch going on in the real world that football would like to feel insulated from, some businesses are struggling, and in the face of mounting expenses many are at risk of losing their jobs. It isn’t unreasonable to think that a number of football clubs might also feel a chill wind, and since our club won’t be creaming off the Champions League gold or the TV and other sponsorship deals some of the larger city clubs will get, it isn’t unreasonable to think Boro might be one of the clubs wishing to be a bit “careful with the money�. No-one wants to do a Leeds. We don’t want to hear the word “administration� mentioned again anywhere near Middlesbrough.

If that is a problem, please don’t tell us in a week’s time that the “Player X�, bought to replace Young, was someone who had been in the club’s sights for some time, a player with potential who is ready to take the next step with the team, and somebody it was felt could make a longer and more valuable contribution to the team effort than the player just sold who was, after all, 29 years old….etc. Do football clubs think their supporters deserve to be told the truth, or is it acceptable to be “economical� with the truth?

It’s all very strange. One would have thought of most centre-halves as being reliable, percentage players, not ones who take unnecessary risks. If the ball is bobbling about on the edge of your six-yard box, you wouldn’t expect the centre half to play around with the ball, put in a feint or two and then start to dribble it out of the penalty area. A foot put firmly through the centre of the ball, to propel it as fast as possible into Row Z is more the expected (and safer) style.

In the circumstances there are several very serious risks being taken here by our ex-centre half. A risk with the goalkeeping situation (when just a few million would have seen our choice of England keepers brought to the club to fill the single most important position in the team), a risk with the obvious lack of a skilful ball-playing midfielder in the centre or on the right of the field, and a risk now with the sale of the right back who was a nailed on certainty to start every game he was fit to play. Suddenly it seems as though GS has become a compulsive gambler. But it’s not just a few quid at stake, it is the Premier League life of our club.

I have never been a professional footballer. I have never been a manager. No doubt those who have been, will say they know better than us “punters�. Well I do hope GS, or whoever it is at our club who sanctioned this move, really does know best, because if it goes wrong, it has all the makings of a “Gerald Ratner moment�.

Look, it’s late, and I have one more day’s work before the long anticipated holiday. The news has deflated the balloon.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | August 8, 2008 2:02 AM

Stew Flaherty wrote...

NOW is the time to see if some fans believe the decision they themselves made. When Southgate was appointed and O'Neill not given the managers job many fans said they were pleased, some of the reasons were;
Gibson apparently made it clear the new manager had to blood new young talent from the Academy
O'Neill had his heart set on older players.

If back then you believed in Southgate and the home grown approach then now is the time to prove it, we as a club take pride in our academy, prove it! $5 million for a 30 year old out, McMahon or whoever.....you're up!

Posted by: Stew Flaherty  | August 8, 2008 5:34 AM

Ken wrote...

I would be worried about this move, if it were not for one factor that everyone has overlooked.

Southgate has various different strengths and weaknesses as a manager.

But, if I were looking to pick one person to evaluate the talent of defenders, it would be Gareth Southgate.

SO, we can be sure he is exactly sure of the pluses and minuses of Young, and how he compares to McMahon and other Boro youth.

If Southgate thought it was a major problem, he would have said "no" and would have given a "hands off Young" message to the press, as he done for other players who would go for much more dosh than Young.

Also, I definitely saw Young's name in the same list of "unsettled Boro players" that included O'Neil and circulated a couple of months back, so it seems to me that it may not be so "out of the blue". For example, The Times said on June 24:
" Fulham have inquired with Middlesbrough about signing Luke Young, the full back, with Jimmy Bullard, their midfield player, moving in the opposite direction as part of the deal. Fulham’s first choice was Steve Finnan, but the Liverpool right back’s salary demands are prohibitive."

Posted by: Ken  | August 8, 2008 6:09 AM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

I think there are two subjects of debate here. The first is

- how will Young’s loss affect the team? and more importantly,

- was Young sold purely for profit, and will this occur again with more of our better players?

I have seen adjectives of “brilliant� and even “amazing� aimed at Luke Young. The truth is, he is neither of them. He is a solid full back. No more, no less. To lose a solid full back, replaced with an alternative with good potential is not a disaster, compared to say, losing a proven striker and replacing him with an alternative with good potential.

So, from a technical point of view I don’t think this move will have such a big affect as others are predicting.

What is very disappointing, is the timing. Had this happened in June then we would have had more time to bed in McMahon in the friendless, or bring in a replacement if thought necessary. Such disruption, nine days before kick off is the last thing we needed.

The question, “was Young sold purely for profit�? raises more concerns than the actual loss of the player. I haven’t seen, or heard, any reports yet of how this particular move came about, nor of the decision making process.

Reading JP’s post it seems like MFC sold the player without much regard to the manager’s feelings. If so, this is not just concerning, it is disturbing. I don’t believe we have been “asset stripping� as suggested by other posters, prior to the last few weeks. Yak, Viduka, Woodgate etc wanted to leave and the club had little option other than to release them .

However the Cattermole and Young transfers could very well be described as profit-taking. As long as this is on a small scale (i.e. two players out of a squad of 30) then the nett effect of this can be absorbed. But if this trend continues (potentially Johnson, Tuncay, Downing, Wheater, Mido, several youngsters) then we are in trouble. And, if it done without adequate input and due cognisance of the manager’s views, then we are in deep trouble.

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | August 8, 2008 6:12 AM

Mac in Bak wrote...

Whilst disapointed that Young has gone I don't think it's the end of the world. Once the news was out Villa wanted him I think it was a move that Young was happy to go along with (read his comments)and the chances of keeping him were slim.
He is not a youngster and at 29 is probably looking for another financial windfall and a better salary for the back end of his career. To try and hold him back could have been a disaster for the team moral.
Lets give McMahon a chance in the position - he was certainly more highly rated than Wheater in the early part of his career and I see another star emerging.He has been injured a lot but deserves the chance.
I said in an earlier Blog that I hoped the Chicken Runners would not come out of their cages too early if things started badly - it seems they can't even wait until the season starts before the cry of "Southgate Out" has started.
The loss of Young is certainly no worse than Vidulka, Yakubu or Woodgate and we have replaced all of them with in my opinion better players.

Posted by: Mac in Bak  | August 8, 2008 6:53 AM

JOHN ROGERS wrote...

WHAT SPEED WAS YOUNG'S SIGNING BY ASTON VILLA.
IT IS HOPED THE SAME SPEED CAN BE USED TO SIGN AN EQUALLY GOOD REPLACEMENT.

It is difficult to imagine how GARETH SOUTGATE accepted this transfer.I doubt if BRYAN ROBSON or STEVE McCLAREN would have agreed to this decicission without a fight. Something funny seems to be going on at BORO

Posted by: JOHN ROGERS  | August 8, 2008 8:04 AM

Mass from Somerset wrote...

This is what he has to say after his arrival at Villa:

"I'm really pleased to be here at Villa. It's happened quite quickly.One minute I was training up at Boro and the next I'm down here for a medical.

"Obviously I'm glad to be here now but it could have been a year earlier. There was interest last summer but it didn't quite happen for whatever reason. I'm just glad to find myself here now."

Loyalty? What loyalty??? Good old Boro.......One step forward 3 back......

Posted by: Mass from Somerset  | August 8, 2008 9:06 AM

London-based Boro Fan wrote...

"The Times" this morning says Boro are a "decent bet" to sign the German, Moritz Volz, from Fulham (£15,000 a week, year left on his contract & now available for transfer!). How would the experts on here rate him?

Posted by: London-based Boro Fan  | August 8, 2008 9:51 AM

Simon wrote...

If a player wants to go, he wants to go. At least we made a decent turn on this one. Southgate obviously thinks McMahon can do a job, at least until December.

Moritz Volz is not the answer, however.

Posted by: Simon  | August 8, 2008 9:56 AM

Andy, the Hague wrote...

Richard -I'm afraid your rant is utter spherical objects. Sporting ambition and money are inseparable in this day and age. The sooner everybody accepts the fact that Premier League football is purely a business, the better for all concerned.

The costs attached to every aspect of a FC mean that it cannot be anything other than a business and the days of Corinthian competition are long gone. Hurworths, Sports scientists, psychologists, ice baths and the rest all cost lots of money, and if you don't have them, you're not in the race.

I was depressed when I heard of the sale of Young, but then I thought that if we depended on one full back to save us then we are probably in deeper do-do than anyone imagined.

Admittedly, the sale doesn't seem to 'send out the right signals' (can't believe I just typed that), but to be honest what does it matter? So if this sort of news leads people like Richard to throw the towel in, then so be it, but this is by no means the worst news ever to befall MFC is it? If Boro are to remain in the PL, or even simply in existence, then a business it must be, no ifs, no buts.

The Teesside public evidently doesn't wish to manifest its wholehearted support on a Saturday, Sunday or whatever day Sky commands, so a diminishing revenue stream dictates that other measures must be taken to service a rather large debt. Let's not be surprised by that simple economic fact...

Posted by: Andy, the Hague  | August 8, 2008 10:16 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

I can't believe the massive assumptions some people are making, and then treating them as fact.

This deal was pretty simple - team that can offer european football and offers us at least double our money on a player we bought 1yr ago.

We might not want to lose Young, but he will have wanted to go to play in Europe (who can blame him at 29?), and ultimately it's a no-brainer.

Some people on here really should calm themselves down before they post.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 8, 2008 11:12 AM

Jarkko wrote...

Relax, GS has made an 3 million offer for 23-year-old Hoyte of Arsenal. He has made 68 senior appearances for Arsenal I think.

So GS tries to replace our oldest pleyer Young. Of course we do not have much experience in the team now.

I still think we need most an attacking midfielder.

Posted by: Jarkko  | August 8, 2008 11:21 AM

Aj Beattie wrote...

Well....
same old boro
same old southgate
one thing im holding onto is gibbos a boro fan and would not sell and leave us snookered, so i am hoping they have 2 or 3 siginings on the brink in the next week.

Posted by: Aj Beattie  | August 8, 2008 11:56 AM

Rob wrote...

Vic, most of what has been said I agree with. However I wonder how the club will square the circle with fans by claiming to want progression and cite ambition and then have actions like this.

Boro fans are I am afraid being taken as mugs. The season ticket sales nearing the optimum level of all those interested and the club do this.

Even the gullible,red spec wearers will be seeing through this ambition we supposedly have as little more than lip service to help put a few bums on seats.

Gibbo - we're awaiting your words of reassurance.

I'm looking out for 3 worse clubs than us in the Prem already.

Posted by: Rob  | August 8, 2008 12:00 PM

David Morrison wrote...

Gibbos out on website saying we got £6million for young. Hoyte seems to be number one target but cant get a look in at arsenal and was ripped to shreds defensively on numerous occassions when he has played. was on loan at the maccams a while back and even they didnt want him. Hes 23 years old and the side is loosing all its experience and premier league ethos. £6million for a 29 year old right back or £30 million for another season in the Premier League.???????????

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 8, 2008 12:00 PM

CHRIS wrote...

Gibson has broken his silence....
"Selling a 29-year-old full-back for £6million a year after we bought him for £2.5million, and doing so in the knowledge that we will replace him, is right for the football club in the short term, medium term and the long term."

"We're already busy working on bringing in a replacement."

So it was 6 million...

Posted by: CHRIS  | August 8, 2008 12:00 PM

Robert Fairbairn wrote...

Never mind about the old gadgey Young, we are replacing him with Jocelyn Hoyte so thats fine. Lets laugh at the Jawdees and Makums instead.The Jawdees they think that they are signing Gomis today,and the Makums think that they will finish 5th in the Premier League.

Posted by: Robert Fairbairn  | August 8, 2008 12:02 PM

Big Willie wrote...

Boro are getting dangerously low of experienced players.
If things go wrong and certain players get injured, you need experience to get you out of the brown stuff (like Owen, Viduka Butt and Geremi did with the barcodes last season)

Its great having a team with lots of local kids in it but you still need experience and GS seems to be getting rid of all of our experienced playes.

Posted by: Big Willie  | August 8, 2008 12:27 PM

John Powls wrote...

As I suggested above, Luke Young's comments indicate that he (as well as Gate) knew nothing about the transfer before it happened.

His view that Villa are 'a notch above Boro at present' and that they have UEFA football as an attraction are self-evident.

If you are offered the chance to better yourself in terms of the team you play for, doubtless improve your wages and pick up a signing on fee and the team you currently play for greet you as you come off the training pitch with the news that they no longer want you and have agreed a fee with another club, then you can't blame Luke Young for getting in his car and going straight to Villa.

A couple of more things of interest.

Firstly, the speed at which Villa are able to move to sign players when we get told from The Count how difficult and complicated it all is.

From Luke Young being told to the deal being signed - approximately 12 hours. And they were doing another one with Shorey at exactly the same time that they completed even quicker.

Don't know how long the fee took to be agreed - evidently not long since the day before Luke Young was part of the official squad photo and, of course, had been allocated a squad number.

So that's one more line from MFC that will take some swallowing next time it's trotted out. So let’s hear less of the feeble ‘hope to bring someone in within 72 hours’ as appears in today’s Gazette.

Secondly, the reaction in the national media to the move confirms that they see this as the 'natural order of things' - that when a club like Villa (let alone the top 4) come calling for a player we're just supposed to roll over.

That backs up the view that AV and others on here have outlined - that we're now seen as, and have confirmed by our actions that we are, a selling club.

That has dangers beyond this one transfer.

But Young's gone now and though it leaves a bad taste, increased mistrust and a dent in the emerging optimism lets move on to what MFC do about it and how they convince us and the other players who may well be targeted by clubs like Villa or better that the club still means business.

Football business that is.

That means players in.

On full backs - we're being linked with 4 so far. Finnan, Volz and Hoyte and Orr. The first 3 are available from their clubs.

As has been raised above, the first 3 can be judged as the 'best of the rest' - if they'd been regarded as better than Young then Villa would have gone to one of them instead.

My strong preference would be in the order above - largely on the basis that the defensive qualities of the first two outweigh the raw speed of Hoyte. But any of those would be acceptable.

Bradley Orr from Bristol City – with the greatest of respect to him as an unremarkable Championship defender – would be seen as an insult to fans already injured by the loss of Young. Forget it.

But let The Count show the same alacrity as Villa in doing the deal. This is important not only to get all the key people positively focused again but also because we are now only 8 days off our season opener with a key part of the defence to bed in without a pre-season – the other reason that’s always trotted out for poor performance and that Gate said we were going to avoid this season.

In parallel with that (The Count will need to learn the lessons from Villa on multi-tasking, but go one better) MFC should secure the creative, attacking midfield player that we've been banging on about on here for ages and Gate has just come around to with the injury to Arca.

If we're talking to The Scousers, what about a Finnan/Benyoun job lot? I know Benitez has said Benayoun's not for sale but he's desperate for the cash to fund the Barry deal.

Success in getting Barry has the additional benefit of taking The Scousers out of the loop for a bid for Stewie.

If not Benayoun, and we're also talking to Fulham about Volz, then what about Bullard?

The Count also needs to secure a goalie. And not some stooge pensioner who's willing to play third fiddle to The Corporal and Turnbull. (I put them in that order because I still believe that, for some strange reason, Gate has them in that order in his mind)

I know Gate has said what he's said about goalies but since it is now more evident than ever that he has no say in the matter of ins and outs and that MFC don't mind sending him out to justify the latest stunt they should have no trouble in getting him to do a public volte face over that too.

Most important - get on with it and no excuses. Action now will move the whole agenda on. Inaction will keep the wound open as the scab keeps being picked.

I also think it was important to hear from Gibbo. I don't want to be as dismissive to Gate as to talk about 'organ-grinders and monkeys' but I'd rather Gibbo and The Count didn't hide behind him.

I don’t find what he said deeply impressive – in particular it gives no re-assurance that they aren’t about to do the same thing again with other key players.

But what it does reflect is MFC realising – albeit 24 hours late - the massive and unprecedented abreaction to what they did with Young and how it was handled. You’d like to think they’d learn but I’ve seen no evidence of it.

Finally, one person in MFC I have seen some evidence of learning from is Neil Bausor.

I said previously that the Boro Pride cards were a good idea and I haven’t changed my mind but the MFC website today is reminding us of the open training session at the weekend and the early availability of Spurs tickets to card holders.

Well, ours haven’t arrived yet and a quick straw poll of a number of mates who have applied tells me that none of them have either. So how are those who want to get to either the training session or buy Spurs tickets supposed to do it?

Shot in foot time again!

Maybe the Boro Pride cards are cowering in the out-tray at The Riverside ticket office, going even redder with embarrassment.

Come on, Neil. Sort it.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 8, 2008 12:34 PM

John wrote...

Back to the Charlie Amer days!

Posted by: John  | August 8, 2008 12:48 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

With regards to the timing of Young's departure you have to say "Typical Boro"!

With probably the most optimistic pre season feeling on Teesside for 2 or 3 years this comes out of the blue, or so it would appear. The Fulham interest earlier on gave an indication that there was a rabbit off somewhere with Luke.

Perhaps we should be congratulating Gareth & Co., after all just 12 months ago we pipped Villa for Luke's signature, had a very good 12 months wear & tear and mileage out of him and sold him on for a tidy £3.5M profit (SG says the deal is £6M). Whilst disappointing for us you have to admit its a good piece of financial business.

From a footballing perspective perhaps not so good but the reality is that if we ran the club speculatively like Leeds did in their heyday then the future could be very bleak indeed. The Credit Crunch is affecting transfers that much we do know, its probably also affected Season Ticket sales and other streams of income. Looming in the background is the Count's statement last year that "we will get the team we can afford".

I doubt if Gareth wanted to lose Luke but all of us have our price. If he replaces him with (as rumours suggest) Hoyte then we have a replacement who is 6 years younger with a future sell on value. In 3 years time, Luke's value will be a pittance. Whereas Hoyte (or Volz/Orr) will still be marketable. On Finnan, he would be no more than a last minute desperate stop gap and even then only if he were available for a song as his wage demands would likely be beyond what the Boro are now clearly setting their limits on.

Now Tony McMahon has an outstanding opportunity to become the player we all believed he was destined to be pre all his injuries and if he does, by Xmas we will all be saying Luke who? Not forgetting that Stoke fans only a few weeks ago were hoping to see Chris Riggot as their new Premiership Right Back!

On the bigger picture ironically this puts Gareth under more pressure than ever to make sure his Goalkeeping decision is the right one!

"Typical Boro"

Posted by: Redcar Red  | August 8, 2008 1:53 PM

michael whitmore wrote...

i think it was a good decision, apparently we got 5.5 million for him, and true he was one of our best players last year, but that money can stabalise the club meaning we dont have to sell downing. being linked with volz and hoyte, those are 2 good players that could do just as well for us this season. southgate has always made risky decisions but on the whole they tend to pay off and i dont think this one is any different

Posted by: michael whitmore  | August 8, 2008 2:00 PM

davwind wrote...

A real BORO fans response to this blog.

Where do these fans think we are as a football team? " Mid- table medoicrity again and that's me finished" comments make my blood boil! We aint MAN YOO even NEWCASTLE, we had 23,000 turn up on a Saturday last season, where do you think the money comes from to buy the likes of ALVES or give DOWNING the contract he demanded?

Let's give GIBBO the credit he deserves for not turning the BORO into NOTTS FOREST, COVENTRY, LEEDS, SOUTHAMPTON ETC. The man is a BORO fan and a very successful businessman and has given me some of my greatest footballing experiences in the last ten years or so. So what we've lost a right back who was a proven Premiership performer. If it helps balance the books "needs must".

The Arsenal academy tends to prove successful with their end products even if they are not good enough for Wenger, ask Jeremy A or even David Bentley. So Hoyte could be a shrewd buy.

Let's not get to down about losing a player.We've taken enough of the VILLA over the last few years. The season hasn't started yet and people are exclaming I'll never renew. Will this be the same comments when we do SPURS 3-1 on the opening day - I hope not.

Posted by: davwind  | August 8, 2008 4:08 PM

Richard wrote...

Andy the Hague and Davwind:

Andy, you seem to be a wholehearted advocate of the commercial nature of modern football and, it would seem, content to accept that status quo. Reading your post reminded me of William (the) Hague, that well-known Thatcherite and presumably as much of an admirer of the media oligarch at the helm of News International as his political mentor.

If you indeed have similar tendencies, perhaps Southgate should recognise your strong right-wing tendencies and bring Gary O’Neil inside?!

Selling off assets to bolster the treasury’s coffers short-term, was a device exploited big-time by William (the) Hague’s heroine. But that expedience has downside over the longer term. Witness the state of the national rail network and the lack of national energy planning because it was all left to private enterprise and the free market! (But even government recognised the need for some form of regulation and introduced the concept of “watchdogs� in some industries).

Developing this line of argument a bit closer to home, and keeping it aligned with the main blog topic:

In the present, topical, local parallel, that’s how most of us probably saw Luke Young’s sudden exit – selling off a prized asset because it was financially expedient.

Well Andy, maybe you are an advocate of the current structure of the game and are content to accept it, but as part of that, you ought also to recognise that fundamental to the commercial “package� is the desirability of the product.

And intrinsic to it all, is the customer’s right to buy or not.

If a supplier company offers one thing and looks to get away with delivering another, the customer is entitled to question that and to withdraw patronage should they see fit. That is the customer’s absolute right in any commercial arrangement. That is precisely what many people have been doing for some time. Walking away from the game because it is no longer a product to which they can either relate, afford, or with whose excesses they don’t feel comfortable any more.

(At this point, I’d ask you to note Davwind’s own reminder to us that Boro played in front of 23,000 punters last time out - a far cry from the 34,500 capacity of the Riverside and the 30,000+ crowds making their way to the stadium 10 years ago!)

In circumstances where the customer has already paid for the product well in advance, to then be informed that the product won’t quite be as described in the advertisement or promotional material and that the company (not the customer or the product) will be better off for the change, is hardly going to appease the customer is it? Not exactly designed to create goodwill is it?

Anthony Vickers and most of the contributors to this blog, myself included, are demonstrating precisely the kind of angry reaction to what appears to be a breach of trust. The supplier promised an ambitious footballing future. We bought season tickets on that premise.

The release of Luke Young, one of our most accomplished players, seemingly on a financially-induced whim, from a position in which we are short on cover, smacks of an expedient u-turn on the supplying company’s pledge to its customers. Particularly so, since he went to a competitor club, one of a number of which we ought to be targeting to replace in the next tier of the league – if that declared ambition is genuine.

It’s just another manifestation of the annoying status of the game that when lesser teams with a bit of (upstart) ambition try to build for future sporting success, those efforts are thwarted by those with big cheque books, who can simply buy their continued superiority and with the flourish of a pen, consign the hopes of those of us who wish for our club to leapfrog them, straight into the trash can. Everton did it last year. (And Newcastle tried it, but as usual, their judgement was suspect and their management inept!)

I and many others, feel the frustrations of this, that it is unacceptable and warrants customer reaction and threat of customer sanction. At the end of the day, the only legitimate “weapons� available to the common man, are demonstration, the written word and (the threat of) withdrawal of financial support.

I find it very strange – and frankly, quite illogical – that anyone who, seemingly, so readily accepts the commercialisation of the game, can suggest that my positioning as a currently disaffected customer should be classed as utter balls, albeit poorly disguised in a pseudo PC attempt to ensure publication, as, what was it? - “utter spherical objects�.

I consider your post to be an expression of your exasperation with a view held by many who are less than enamoured with the hijacking of the national sport for massive commercial gain whilst interfering with the sporting nature of it.

Your post may serve as an epiphany for a few, but really, you’d have to have lived blindfolded down a coalmine from birth (which I have not) to be unaware of what’s going on with the game and how the very character of it has been transformed. Everyone knows it. But not everyone has to either like it or accept it without comment.

And not everyone is content to just sit and watch the English Premier League follow that of Scotland and become a predictable procession, season after season, simply because it is in the interests of a powerful few, their business partners and their own supporters that it should be so.

Huge numbers of supporters of football clubs in Scotland have drifted away from the game over the years because of the lack of genuine competition and because their local clubs cannot mount anything like a serious challenge to the domination of Rangers and Celtic. Those communities have lost something that used to be special. Scotland’s provincial town football stadia are now largely empty each week. Except when Rangers or Celtic come to town. And then their attendance can go up by a factor of 10+ (yes, seriously!).

That’s what happens when the league becomes heavily polarised. (Again, I’d repeat, I’d ask you to note Davwind’s own reminder to us that Boro played in front of 23,000 punters last time out - a far cry from the 34,500 capacity of the Riverside and the 30,000+ crowds making there way to the stadium 10 years ago!)

The winners are principally the TV media, who get their subscriptions from whatever wider audience they can sell their transmissions to. And of course, Rangers and Celtic who’s “support�, bred of their unremitting domination is so widespread that you cannot go into any town in Scotland on a Saturday without seeing kids, or their parents, wearing Rangers or Celtic football shirts - even though those kids may never have been in Glasgow in their lives!

Of course the same is true in Bangkok, Beijing or Lagos, only it’s usually Manchester United or Liverpool crests that adorn the chests of an increasing number of the locals in those far flung parts, thus generating some income for those clubs who’s supporters in those countries will likely only ever see on, yes, you guessed it, pay TV.

And it’s in the TV company’s interests to make sure that this is then perpetuated and that European league slots (Champions League, actually) continue to be occupied by “the right� clubs. Because it’s all part of the global marketing effort. Selling the well-known “brands�. And bringing those brands to them via the wonders of electro-magnetism.

But all of this results in a corruption of the fundamental essence of the sport. It has become global entertainment. It’s no longer our game. It’s been stolen and turned into a plaything for corporates. The playing field isn’t level any more. Like Hibernian’s Easter Road Stadium – it’s tilted to one end. The only difference being that at least teams change ends at half-time at Easter Road!

That may be the way it is now, or the way it’s heading here in England. But we don’t have to like it! And therefore, we don’t have to buy it!

Davwind’s indignance at my potential patronage withdrawal is also misplaced. Although I read it that Davwind’s perspective is from quite a different place.

Arguably, and ironically, the relative positioning of each of you, Andy and Davwind, demonstrates an irreconcilable dichotomy.

From Andy: One is not allowed to dislike the product or the industry and we must accept whatever is dished up. Yet,
From Davwind: We are not allowed to express dissatisfaction or intent to withdraw custom if we don’t like it?

A fascinating and dangerously totalitarian cocktail, I think! And ultimately, some may observe, not entirely out of keeping with the ambitions of some of the people who have changed the nature of the game.

Oh! And Andy! Just in case you don’t recognise it as such. This isn’t a rant. It’s a carefully considered statement fact and of my opposition to the expansion and globalisation of our football league, the destruction of it as a genuine competition and the manipulation of it by higher commercial interests who don’t have people and communities at heart! (Until recently, I wouldn’t have included Steve Gibson in that. But he’s treading a decreasingly narrow path because, by accident or by design, he’s now caught up in something much bigger than himself and is having to play by others’ rules!)

Posted by: Richard  | August 11, 2008 11:40 AM

Jarkko wrote...

AV, are these pages working again?

I am comfortable with Young's move as we have really good youngsters coming through and we look for a replacement, too.

AV, can you please compare the average ages of the current team to Steve Mac's UEFA Cup finalists, Charlton's team first year in Div 1 and Sir Alex's first Championship team (Giggs and Becks as youngsters)?

Posted by: Jarkko  | August 11, 2008 12:19 PM

John Powls wrote...

Good to get a win against Sparta - despite their relative lack of strength and preparedness. As I've said before, we've often complained when we haven't tonked a side we should have tonked, so credit where due.

Pity about the early lapse in defensive concentration but the potency going forward is good to see. Aside from Alves getting a brace again it was good to see Stewie notch. I'd have liked to see Tuncay break his duck but hey...

Just a word about the Open Training Session. Despite the weather and the problems with the Boro Pride cards I hope it was a success in terms of getting numbers there and that those who did attend enjoyed it.

It another good idea and one that I discussed some time ago with Neil Bausor and Dave Allen to see if such a thing could happen in The Algarve. That didn't prove possible but I'm glad it came off at The Riverside and it would be good if it could become a fixture through the season.

In previous posts, I put Hoyte third choice out of a list of four but after running the rule over him on Saturday evening against Seville on Sky (David Mills was in the crowd and picked out by the cameras as was the reason why he was there), I'd rate him even lower.

He has never been rated the greatest defender but he put on the most inept display of right back play it has been my displeasure to see for quite a while. And if that's him in the shop window.....

He was constantly caught out of position and barely touched the ball or got in a tackle, even given that Arsenal were on the defensive practically all the game.

He offered nothing going forward, making few forays into attack and when he did he was either ignored by his team-mates or, on the one occasion he got to about 15 yards from the Seville by byline, produced an overhit cross that went straight out.

But on those few occasions, despite his much vaunted athleticism, he often struggled to make his ground again when Arsenal were dispossessed in midfield.

Yes, he is quick but he takes time to get up to speed - his pace over the vital first few yards is poor and if you add in the slowness of thought, a turning circle like a tanker and lack of anticipation........

I hope David Mills was honest in reporting what he saw.

Finnan and Volz are much better prospects. Who knows about some ‘young Dutch prospect that is also in the frame, apparently.

Lots of the Gooners round here are already taking the mickey since they know we're interested and are full of praise for Wenger’s ability to get money for what the consider ‘old rope’. Gate is making our - and his - situation harder by saying that he's determined on Hoyte.


On the midfielder matter, Bullard is now issuing the traditional ‘come and get me’ messages about contract renewal – so why not get in there?

Well, one reason is that Gate has now said that he wants a 'utility defensive midfielder' to add to the squad (rather than what we all know is necessary - a creative attacking midfielder) which explains why he was after Harper.

And if Gate is still hankering after Harper, despite the ludicrous price tag, I hope he watched the Notts Forest v Reading game to see further reasons why he isn’t for us.

He also says that he isn't, as rumoured, going to buy a third goalie - though I could never see the argument for an old stooge to The Corporal and Turnbull.

Talking of rumours, The Scousers and Stewie stories have surfaced again and now no-one will believe any of the 'not for sale' blandishments from MFC.

Someone in Germany is also supposed to be keen on Mido.

Maybe MFC need the money now for increased insurance premiums!

The consensus from the variously dismissive reviews of how we’ll fare in the Prem this season in the Sunday’s is that we’ll finish about where we start, alphabetically.

The cutting of some dead wood is praised but most seemed to feel it could have gone further and that we haven’t bought enough – specifically in central midfield to support the creative efforts of Stewie and to supply Alves and in goal.

Most predict that the Brazilian will be a big success and that Mido will, true to his previous form at other clubs, be a disappointment and a nuisance. We’ll see.

My prize for the most cutting comment – and in a sense it backs up what Ian sometimes says about us being part of the Prem ‘lodgers’ – was ‘They’ll probably hang on this season but if they don’t no-one would miss them after they went.’

As if we needed reminding how we’re viewed by a London-centric national hackery.


Posted by: John Powls  | August 11, 2008 12:25 PM

chris wrote...

Vic can you please tell us Eric paylors source for his articles as he doesn't quote as saying it is the club or southgate. He said we had made a written offer for Hoyte were did the info come from becouse Wenger states no offers received and I do not believe he is a liar... he has always been straight forward.Which begs the question is eric going on he said she said or has he actually got a solid contact?

**AV writes: Eric's story came from an impeccable source. I don't know the reason for Wenger's response. Who can say how much of what a manager says to the press is strictly true?

Posted by: chris  | August 11, 2008 12:29 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

JP - an eminently sensible posting, as ever, mate, but I do disagree with you on one thing - the amount of time it takes to complete transfer dealings.

A side like Villa has a distinct advantage over Boro. Most people, including most in football, believe they're a big club - Luke Young's "notch up" if you like. Villa finished 6th last season, are well managed and well run financially which allows them to buy big, they have a UEFA Cup spot. They are the biggest side in the Midlands by some distance with a potentially enormous fan-base.

OK - they deal quickly and efficiently, but few players are going to turn them down. I do believe that the Count and all at Boro work very hard to secure the right transfers - look at Alves - but circumstances dictate that we're not always in the driving seat; we can't always afford the wages some players demand; clubs here and abroad no doubt think we're just as well off as other clubs and inflate their transfer demands accordingly so we have to negotiate long and hard;

Then there's the North-East factor and the apparent distorted national view of the area. So it may be frustrating that it takes longer, but my guess is they're doing all they can in the best interests of the club.

Davwind - I was one of those earlier posters. I said I wouldn't have renewed if the Young transfer had happened earlier. I've calmed down a bit now. Now that the deal is done, I can see it was good business, (provided we get in a reasonable replacement). Yes, I know it helps to keep the club afloat and may help us to keep Stewy, but what was really irksome was Boro's willingness to sell our second-best player at really short notice a few days before the season begins; whatever the business sense it smacked of a real lack of ambition.

Suddenly all the genuine optimism I and many others had built up was deflated in one fell swoop. It just seemed to me that all the talk about pushing on to the top 8 (or even 4, according to GS) was just that - talk. If we're going to do that, we can't go on selling our best players.

Now it's done, let's get on with it. I still think we'll have a good season, if we can keep our regular first teamers fit. Come on Boro!

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | August 11, 2008 1:58 PM

David Morrison wrote...

Just wondering if this court settlement for the young Man Utd lad has had any bearing on the sale of some players over the past few weeks. seems very conveniant that we sell luke young for £6 million and then this kid gets a £4.5 million settlement. I understand that boros insurance company will front the bill but surely its gunna push up premium and we will probs have a exess to pay.

Justin Hoyte,? Dosnt fit the bill for me and i think GS is barking up the wrong tree. He isnt that good as some have already pointed out if he was then wenger would be playing him its as simple as that. It may actually be a good thing that young has gone because it gives us the option to change the shape of the team.

Jones

Wheater
Huth
Pogatetz/Williams

Downing
Digard
Walker
Shawky
Emnes

Aliadiere
Alves

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 11, 2008 4:15 PM

Jollyjohn wrote...

Yes it is a blow that Young is going no doubt about it- but I am not sure we know the full story.
My impression is that he was a consumate professional/mercenary doing his job........but !!.....there were games when the crowd was giving the team a hard time, that he looked like he had was waiting to "take his bat (or ball) home".If he was nursing a grudge and had a good offer - then maybe it is as well that he went now !!

Posted by: Jollyjohn  | August 11, 2008 4:30 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

I read Richard’s carefully constructed ‘response post’ with interest. While I agree that the subject of TV Media/Companies, selling the well known brands, global exposure etc certainly has brought about a high level of disillusionment among true fans, I’m not quite sure that this sad phenomena is directly related to the sale of Luke Young, which I believe is more isolated. I’m sure Richard and others may believe they inextricably linked but I’m not convinced.

I say that because this kind of transfer deal is nothing new at all. It has existed in football as long I can remember, long before the present day malaise, because a football club in essence, is a business, and business considerations will always be taken into account if the club is to remain stable (Leeds take note). The case in question belongs in that bracket. As I said in my last post, as long as this is on a small scale then the loss can be absorbed and managed.

Bentley was one of Blackburn’s top performers, Defoe, Keane and Berbatov (soon) were Spurs top performers (what would be the reaction from Boro fans had we lost three players of their calibre?), Hleb and Flamini were regular first teamers with Arsenal. All of these players have been moved on for a profit and because they wanted to move, just as Luke Young wanted to, in the end. It is part of a clubs (and teams?) evolvement.

The above examples are typical of what has occurred in football year in, year out since George Camsell days. This doesn’t mean that the club bosses have necessarily ‘sold out’, stripped the assets, or ripped off the fans. They have merely made business decisions, and that will include the perceived net effect that the transfer will have on the team.

That said, my belief is that the reaction to Young’s sale has been somewhat over the top.

Let's look forward enthusiastically to next Saturday. The 'Young affair' is finished, let's move on and get behind our team.

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | August 11, 2008 5:29 PM

John Powls wrote...

Clive

Take some of what you say about The Count - and doubtless some of the edge was tempered by the raw feelings about what had happened.

Also appreciate that Villa are now in a different position to us - though they weren't a few short years ago.

But it was particularly the time AFTER the courtship and persuading the player (or in this case players) to move that I particularly pointed to.

As I said, from the point that Young got told we'd accepted a deal for him and asked if he wanted to go as he walked off the Hurworth training pitch to the point he signed was less than 12 hours. And that included him having to get from Hurworth to Villa.

I presume that his contract has all the 'knobs on' - image rights, sponsorship deal freedoms etc that they all do nowadays and we are always told are complex and time consuming.

I'm sure that a big ladle of Randy Lerner's cash helps and that their standard contract is probably more lucrative than ours.

A medical is a medical - and I presume they don't lash out £5.5m without doing one properly. Even if they wanted too, their CEO and insurers wouldn't let them.

But still, they got it done.

I suspect the phrases that you use about Villa - 'well managed and well run financially' and 'they deal quickly and efficiently' - tell the story.

Those things aren't dependent on being a 'big club' or the other advantages that you rightly say Villa have.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 11, 2008 6:03 PM

borospark wrote...

So Richard I take it you are not happy at the sale of Luke Young!!

One good thing has come of this, at least he might score more in my dream team, in what now seems like a good signing and not one based on blind faith!!!!

What are the odds he scores a wonder goal against us this season?

Posted by: borospark  | August 11, 2008 6:13 PM

davwind wrote...

RICHARD I have read your response with interest. It is a well constructed argument against the direction money has taken our beloved game. On most of the points I tend to agree with you but nevertheless this is how the league we perform in operates. The voice of the fans of much smaller value against the financial benefits TV has to offer.

I was never suggesting that fans don't have right to respond. I was upset at the kneejerk reaction of the blog (no offence AV!!)"letting Luke young go is a disaster"!! No, a disaster was 1986 with no ground. A disaster would be relegation from a financial aspect. A disaster would be for STEVE GIBSON to say he's had enough of the whining and walk away. We sold a journeyman right back for a hefty profit.

Nobody has mentioned the roasting he got against CELTIC in Portugal. He probably looked good because we haven't had a proper right back for years. PARNABY was never good enough and ABEL XAVIER looked a centre back covering. Let's get things in perspective a full back is probably the easiest position to play on a football field. Will we be upset if HOYTE, FINNAN or VOLZ comes in? I have seen VOLZ play many times and can't understand how he doesn't get a game at The COTTAGE.

I understand we have been left short defensively with the new season approaching but "keep the faith". Let's not turn into Geordies, who are already booing their own players in pre-season friendlies, namely Alan SMITH. "back to the Charlie Amer days" this most certainly isn't! I remember them days well. Southgate is making big and brave decisions regarding the squad development. I for one am more concerned with the goalkeeping situation than the loss of a replaceable RB.

Let's try and fill the Riverside against Spurs on Saturday bacause it's a tough start. But then they are backed by one of the richest men in the world but I'd still rather have a local lad who is a fan like the rest of us. Just remember what this bloke has given us.

Posted by: davwind  | August 11, 2008 6:22 PM

GeoffC wrote...

I agree totally with John Powls comments regarding Justin Hoyte, his display in the Amsterdam tournament was abject. I am concerned at the quality of full backs we are being linked with, we seem to be buying to a price rather than a like for like replacement for Luke Young and why on earth do we need another holding midfielder? On another theme I was at White Hart Lane yesterday with a Tottenham supporting mate to see Spurs v Roma.While Roma were pretty poor, Spurs were very impressive and if we think they are in turmoil with so many players leaving then we could be in for a shock.They interchanged Bentley/Dos Santos and Lennon on the wings and they could make hay if we are weak in the full back positions.

Posted by: GeoffC  | August 11, 2008 6:55 PM

Nick S wrote...

We've never been a side that has the late-season ability to scrap it out and get ugly results like the clubs over the Pennines.

It takes quality up front and an ability not to leak goals to make sure we don't get into that kind of dogfight, and the top priority this summer was to address all of those late equalisers and defeats from last season.

I just don't see where we've done that.

Posted by: Nick S  | August 11, 2008 10:51 PM

chris wrote...

Ok Eric's 72 hours are over. My guess is the Young deal was outa the blue and we have no back up, apart from a loan deal. I feel sorry for Gareth as it looks like he is not in charge and the boardroom is.This is why we did not get the world class manager we were promised, or the players. We have downgraded. Sad but true.

Posted by: chris  | August 11, 2008 11:43 PM

mark_76 wrote...

Whoever mentions the full back when winning a championship or cup. Its not that important calm down. Its all cpl jones on this site dont panic dont panic your typical knee jerk negetive reaction. Whilst disapointed im not that worried. Full backs whilst intergral to a team dont win you matches. Your backbone does and we have that Centre denfensive solid, Midfield good, Up front many options. Just please calm down. Feel like the hippie on kelly's heros stop the negetive vibes

Posted by: mark_76  | August 12, 2008 12:38 AM

tim from sa wrote...

I see Portsmouth are in for Apiah come Gareth he is what we are looking for if available.

Posted by: tim from sa  | August 12, 2008 8:45 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

I think it’s realistic to assume that Gareth Southgate is not calling the shots when it comes to financial decisions. However, I’m sure he’s had a major say in whether Young left or not.

There was probably some truth in his comments that Young looked less than highly motivated for the new season, as given his age, he must have been wondering if he would get to win something with Boro or make the England squad anytime soon.

I wouldn’t have too many problems if the money from the £6m deal (along with other deals) is reused to strengthen the squad. I could also imagine Mido disappearing before the end of the month if say an offer of around £8m came in from the likes of Sunderland or Wigan.

It makes sense for a club of our resources to make deals in order to bring in other players. The problem it seems is not selling but bringing in new players who are above what we have already – No to Harper and Hoyte, Yes to Bullard and Benayoun.

It’s also quite possible that Steve Gibson is looking to cut our financial liabilities in order to keep the club out of trouble. There is usually a few years lag until the time of transfers and wages paid hit the club and it’s probably no coincidence that Boro have managed to offload quite a few high earners of late.

In addition, we’ve still not heard about the season ticket sales and there also seemed a bit of a hiccup financing the Emnes deal.

Though we shouldn’t think this is a Boro problem – look at West Ham, Everton, Blackburn or the disastrous Man City or even the somewhat quieter than usual Geordies. Make no mistake this is not the time for ‘businesses’ to be carrying massive multi-million pound debts and liabilities – the risk of another Leeds is probably quite realistic at the moment.

So lets give the club the benefit of the doubt, after all they’ve invested quite heavily on some good players recently and the new crop of youngsters could keep us in the top half of the Premier League for the next 5 years.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | August 12, 2008 9:34 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

'I feel sorry for Gareth as it looks like he is not in charge and the boardroom is'

comments like this are going to drive me over the edge.

and JP - do you feel the need to bash the Boro with any flimsy stick you can get your hands on? How on earth can you criticise the lengths of certain transfer dealings when you have absolutely no idea of what has actually gone on? Or have you been party to these negotiations?

Any excuse to have a go at the club, it seems.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 12, 2008 9:43 AM

beeline wrote...

"He said we had made a written offer for Hoyte were did the info come from becouse Wenger states no offers received and I do not believe he is a liar..."

Perhaps he just didn't see it !

**AV writes: Maybe it hasn't arrived in the post yet.

Posted by: beeline  | August 12, 2008 10:00 AM

Mohammad Abdullah wrote...

A.V.

May I just address this post to those who are trumpeting the sale of Young as a good piece of business: "good money for a 30 year old", "doubled our money in one season" replace with a younger player" etc.

Who exactly then has been taken in by this shrewd piece of business of ours? A rookie in the managerial game with more money than sense or perhaps a manager desperate to bolster a poor defence or even a manager making one of those signings on a whim that seem to happen every now and again.

Hmm, the manager in question is certainly not a rookie, has a side that has qualified for Europe and is not known for spending just for the sake of it.

Would this manager in question then, in looking for defenders to boost, not bolster, his defence and in wanting to replace like for like, for some of his injured players, not have run the rule over Hoyte, Volz, Finnan and perhaps even Orr and decided the player he wanted, was available at an attractive price from a club that would have no quibble in selling. Hence a deal done in half a day or so.

Sorry guys, the smart piece of business in question was done by Martin O'Neill.

I like all on this web site, want the team to do well on the pitch, there is a possibility it could happen. The squad is youthful and could gel if some decent performaces can be delivered and some results go our way and none of the dribel that was served up last season comes to the fore again.

I do not however delude myself that selling off good players is good business

Posted by: Mohammad Abdullah  | August 12, 2008 10:53 AM

John Powls wrote...

Tim from SA

You're exactly right on Appiah. We clearly have the Fenerbahce links following the Tuncay move - so why not exploit them?

Our difficulty will be putting a convincing case against what the alleged competing clubs - including the one he's currently at - can offer in terms of European football, likely league position, Capital City centricity etc. But doesn't mean we shouldn't give it a go and maybe get Tuncay to talk to Appiah - unless they hated eachother, of course.

The news on O'Neil adds to the pressing need for a recruit but we'd be struggling to get them in for the Spurs game anyway now.

Why are we - apparently - hanging on Arse'n'all and Whinger making a decision on Hoyte when he's one of the poorer options available now anyway.

Tell them we'll get back to them, leave them hanging (there's no competition for Hoyte's signature, so nothing to lose there. We can go back anytime up to 31 August and he'll still be there - which tells you something) and pursue Finnan as first choice and Volz.

As I've said before, why not offer for job lots in both cases - Finnan and Benayoun from The Scousers, Volz and Bullard from Fulham.

I'm not sure of the point of another young and untried Dutchman at full back. Given the articles in the Gazette today, don't we need a bit of experience there even if we're, rightly, not looking at the over 30's?

Either way round we're now going to be too late to integrate a new right back for Saturday anyway so best if we start with Tony Mc who at least has had the pre-season and match practice with potential back four colleagues.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 12, 2008 12:06 PM

Percypieblocks wrote...

They used to say that 'A week in politics is a long time'.
Where has all the euphoria gone, one minute most people appear to be happy with the squad, then we sell a 29 year old full back for £6m smackers and all hell breaks loose.
What will people be writing next week when 2/3 new signings appear?
I'm still very positive that we'll have a good season although I haven't a clue about the formation, who play up front and in midfield. it seems to me that The Gate actually has a choice this season.
We'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: Percypieblocks  | August 12, 2008 1:14 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Well hello from the frozen north! It looks like I have an internet connection but let's see whether the message gets through.

After the sale of Young storm, comes the "who can we get to fill the gap?" lull. Maybe we react swfitly to disappointment. But I guess GS had planned the season to start with Young, and probably had him pencilled in for 38 games. In that case, the sale was at least unexpected.

If any of the alternative candidates for the full back position were as good as Young, then O'Neill would certainly have bought them rather than Young. We will see (and I hope my season ticket card is on the doormat when I get back to Teesside on Saturday lunchtime for the Spurs game as there won't be much "turnaround time").

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | August 12, 2008 1:26 PM

John Powls wrote...

BoroPhil

I base my comments on nothing more than what has been said in public by all parties to the Young deal - and what has been said by MFC in public in relation to bringing in a replacement and on the process they - not me - have described on this and previous transfers.

If you know something more or better - which you seem to imply - then please let us all in and then we'll be better informed.

In the absence of that I will draw my conclusions and you will draw yours on the basis of what is evident - a privilege to which we're both entitled.

You clearly have a view that I have a down on a club that I've supported for 50 years. I don't. This is the golden age for the MFC and Boro. I've said that many times. We've never had it so good.

But that doesn't mean that what is already very good can't be improved or that you help the cause by accepting it when performance slips below what's required or when decisions are made that seem to fly in the face of other pronouncements MFC have made.

Indeed, I would say that in my experience the very good organisations are the ones who listen to what their customers are saying - both good and not so good - and use it to get better not to get defensive.

As I've said more than once I think that that is a great strength that Neil Bausor has brought to the MFC management team. We're seeing the evidence of that.

If you would do me the minor courtesy of reading just a small selection of my posts - including the ones above - you will see that it's not just one way traffic in relation to MFC from me.

On transfers this close season, for example, go back and have a look at what I said about bringing in Digard and Emnes in the way it happened - a ringing endorsement.

I give credit where I think it's due - as well as the opposite, though you clearly feel that I've got the balance wrong.

But if it's all only ever one way then that wouldn't be reality or sensible.

Maybe that's something you may care to consider from your perspective.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 12, 2008 1:40 PM

chris wrote...

I thought we were in the age of the Fax machine ....or maybe Boro do not have one! :)

With regards to the squad i was happy but very concerned with the goalkeeper situation...losing Young was a big blow for me as i was already worried about leaking goals and we were already short at right back.What annoys me most is the dross flying out of MFC regarding signings and interest...there projections and time limits never seem to come true.

With regards to a bid for Hoyte i do not believe Wenger would not know about a bid and as soon as he heard the rumours he would ask if that was the case prior to making a statement . I believe the issue is more likely to be clouded at this end.

Posted by: chris  | August 12, 2008 1:59 PM

jc wrote...

AV: Eric Paylor wrote "The Boro boss is looking at the possibility of bringing in a defensive utility player to complement his squad before the end of the month".

Can you clarify if he meant a defender or a defensive midfielder (i.e. is he talking about Harper or someone who can play anywhere across the back?)

**AV writes: I think they are scouring the FM database for a defender who can cover in both full-back positions and maybe at centre-back too at a push.

Posted by: jc  | August 12, 2008 2:35 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

JP - it just strikes me that you (and it's not just you to be fair) jump on anything and use it as a reason to have a go at the club. As I read it, you seem to be suggesting that the Boro string out transfer deals through incompetence, while other teams (such as Villa) complete their deals quickly as they are so professional. It's surely not as black and white as that, each deal is different and I have no reason to believe that Boro are better or worse at it than anyone else.

On the other hand, if something good happens, very little praise is offered and it should have been introduced a long time ago.

You talk about basing your comments on what the club have said - yet you are happy to suggest that Southgate isn't in control of transfer dealings and is some sort of figurehead with no real power- which others have now latched on to.

I'm sorry but there is just no basis for that whatsoever.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 12, 2008 2:53 PM

Billy (Berks) wrote...

AV, what happened with the Kiwi trialist?

**AV writes: Good question. He couldn't play in any games as he is still registered with a club and would need international clearance so he has slipped off the radar a bit. We'll ask...

Posted by: Billy (Berks)  | August 12, 2008 2:55 PM

Richard wrote...

John Powls & Borophil:

Something just occured to me as I was reading your "discussion" on the speed at which transfer deals are effected.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it does seem to me that when Boro is the seller, deals go through more quickly than when we're the buyer. Or am I mistaken?

I've been trying to think of reasons why this may be so.

One that jumped out at me was that because we don't have huge amounts of money to burn, we perhaps take a longer time to negotiate a deal that's acceptable to both Boro and to a selling club. But when we're the seller, our selling criteria are much clearer, in that we know what we'll accept financially and we're already committed, for whatever reason to allowing a player to leave. Therefore, our selling decisions can happen faster and there's no new player contract to put in place.

Of the selling deals we've done, I can't think of one that has been particularly protracted.

In recent years we've had some issues with work permits for incoming foreign players, and in Alves's case of course the AZ Alkmaar complexity muddied the waters for a while.

It's always likely to be a more complex administration matter bringing a new player in, than selling one on.

We should perhaps also bear in mind what Steve Gibson has told us that because we are a small, privately-owned club, we run a small administration "department" and therefore, the availability of commercial and legal-savvy people to push the deals through may be at a premium, especially when there's a lot of transfer action.

As for the Luke Young deal, it was a domestic transfer without the complexities of work permits, international clearance, absence of "ownership" disputes and a clear case of an instantly acceptable purchase price. Presumably, the Aston Villa lines of credit are immediately open and verifiable and underwritten by Randy Lerner's bank. And presumably they'll be rated highly by Standard & Poors or Dun & Bradstreet - or whoever are the applicable credit ratings agencies are.

It would have been the only transfer deal ongoing in Boro's admin department and so....... swiftly done deal!

Thats' my take on it. At least it's my starter for 10!

Posted by: Richard  | August 12, 2008 6:32 PM

borospark wrote...

Maybe the speed at which the transfer went through is because Villa were dealing with a professional competant club!!

Or more likely a club who were willing to sell at the price offered, and a player who was more than willing to jump ship with a probable lucrative contract as a bonus.

Our deals, Im sure take longer as we start off with the cheapest offer then work up from there, which is good in a business sense but not when you have to get players in quick

Posted by: borospark  | August 12, 2008 6:35 PM

Nigel wrote...

I went away on holiday two weeks or so ago thinking things were looking goodish for the forthcoming season, with the exception of the lack of a new keeper.

Now Luke Young has gone, good business if Boro are an asset management company bad business if they are a football club. Hoyte I thought is a player with a good reputation, but those who have posted on here who have seen him play are clearly unimpressed. for certain bringing him into the team/squad so late is going to cause a serious problem. Having a young/inexperienced keeper and a young/inexperienced right back can't be a good place to be at for a team at the start of a season. Why didn't Boro simply refuse the bid? I don't believe we need the cash.

However one point I would make is that I don't believe Young didn't know about Villas interest in advance, they would have phoned his agent and sounded him out, no question of that in my mind.

Chris states that he doesn't believe wenger is a liar, well there are 6000 million people in this world and every one of us lies sometimes, premiership managers when talking to the press do it more than most of us I would suggest.

Loosing Young is not a positive move but it won't define our season, Southgates decision not to buy a keeper is more likely to do that. I hope even if Hoyte is signed that GS plays McMahon on Saturday, we know he is good and he's had the benefit of a full pre-season with Boro, in the first instance he has to be the best bet.

Finally I have just read the Gazette article with the interview of the panel of Boro pundits, who apparently get paid for what they say/write regarding the Boro. What a complete load of old tosh, one of them stated Boro's season will be measured on where we start and finish! Insightful stuff!!

**AV writes: A complete load of old tosh? You have seen it before it was edited!

Posted by: Nigel  | August 13, 2008 11:54 AM

James wrote...

Here we go again 4 days left till the start of the season and Gibson has come out saying 'dont panic' we know we have to fill the right back gap and we will before the start of the season. Well here he is in the paper today saying looks like we might not have an experienced defender by saturday! It is the same old, same old with Boro.

They should not have let young go unless they had a player virtually signed.

Now we are left with no right back, no keeper and no cover in midfield. Southgate and gibson are doing an awful lot of gambling this season. Maybe we should get 888.com back on the shirts.

Posted by: James  | August 13, 2008 12:22 PM

David Morrison wrote...

£3 million for Hoyte? Are we mad? Id pay no more than £2m and even that is pushing it. Apparantly he is the Arsenal squad for tonights game in the Champions League so there is no chance of having him in for saturday.

Why is it all so frustrating? Why couldnt we have held on to Young until we got a suitable replacement? We held all the cards. He was our player and we shouldnt be in this position. Im fearing the worst on saturday, Bent is on fire, Bentley, Modric look good and we are struggling with injuries.

I cant watch

Posted by: David Morrison  | August 13, 2008 12:26 PM

John Powls wrote...

Oh no! Disaster looms in the form of a Lawro shaped iceberg (horrible, shiver-making thought!)

That perennial predictor of 2-0 defeats for Boro (always my best omen for a win!) is, relatively speaking, writing up Boro's season on the Beeb website.

We're doomed!!

On another topic - how come Warnock's availablity at Blackburn has been introduced into discussion of candidates for right back by some in other places.

Warnock's an excellent player, if a little 'over-zealous' from time to time but surely there's no serious intention of hiring a very left-footed left back who, so far as I know, has never even been tried on the right as a right back?

If the import was that we would use the Young cash to go for a brace of full-backs with Warnock on the left and another new recruit on the right then I'm up for that.

If it were to be Finnan on the right we'd be re-uniting an old Scousers pairing.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 13, 2008 12:47 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Richard - Dun & Bradstreet? I thought in Young's case the agents were Dunne and Dusted!

Is it true that Hoyte's agent is called Yuravin Alaff?

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | August 13, 2008 1:23 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Rumour has it that the Dutch defender our super duper new scouting system has identified is Paul Verhaegh, Vitesse's captain. His wiki page even suggests he is on trial, though I'm not sure that is to be believed.

I asked in a Dutch football thread on another forum and:

He is a rightback, 24 years old iirc. He's quite alright, has played some matches in Holland u21 I think. Could be a useful signing for Boro.

Could be useful. Any news AV?

**AV writes: Eric will release the name tomorrow I think. Verhaegh is one name in the frame. Is it Dutch full back or full back playing in Holland? We'll have to keep an eye on the Arsenal v Twente game tonight and the big Hoyte v Wilkshire face off.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 13, 2008 2:24 PM

Chris D wrote...

Played 8, Won 7, Drew 1, Lost 0 Goals For 33 Goals Against 5!!!!!

In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is Spurs record in friendlies since July. This is a real test for us, and not easy.

If we win this one, we have a good platform to go on for the rest of the season. At least if we lose we will lose to a goood side, bang on form. Those stats should show that it shouldn't be time for the doom and gloom merchants to start.

Posted by: Chris D  | August 13, 2008 2:47 PM

chris wrote...

Sorry but Wenger has always come across to me as being a straight forward guy ....one of the few managers these days that actually have a level headed view of most things and would if necesary avoid the question rather than lie regarding any particular topic.Just my view i know....

Posted by: chris  | August 13, 2008 2:53 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Haha, yeah I noticed Luke Wilkshire is now a right back. Must have been interesting for McClaren when they met up again, considering he got rid of him and when you think of the right-back problems we had during his reign.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 13, 2008 3:24 PM

John Powls wrote...

I sincerely hope that the rumours about Al Habsi from Notlob wanting away for first team footy are true.

Also that we may be amongst a few Prem and European teams who are showing renewed interest in the last few days.

Realistically - and sadly - I think the former is much more likely than the latter.

The Omani would be a good investment and with only a year left on his contract then Notlob must be tempted to part at a reasonable fee if they can't keep him happy parked on the bench.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 13, 2008 3:25 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Ali Al-Habsi is one subject I think me and JP agree on 100%. From what we saw last season, would be a cracking buy.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | August 13, 2008 3:40 PM

jc wrote...

JP: maybe we're waiting for January to get Al Habsi on a free? No point doing things the easy way!

Posted by: jc  | August 13, 2008 4:03 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

JP fully agree about Al Habsi, a while back (May 13, 2008 9:44 PM) I posted:

"Consider the reserve Bolton keeper Al Habsi and his performance at the Riverside versus Jones and Turnbull's efforts to date.
In fact considering Al Habsi maybe is not such a bad idea!"

Would make me feel a lot more comfortable thats for sure, especially considering the exposure now at RB.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | August 13, 2008 5:30 PM

Jeremy Newbegin wrote...

It was good to read an article that agreed with my sentiments, and to see so many Boro supporters also agree.

To suggest that the sale of Luke Young was good for the long term future of MFC and that Luke was "getting old" was an insult to our intelligence. Without Luke Young at right back we are a poorer team, simple.

So how is that good for MFC? It isn't and the sale suggests to me that the club is in need of cash. I understand season ticket sales have been disappointing - despite the cheap ticket prices for under 18's! The credit crunch is hitting hard and the sale of LY is confirmation that MFC is not immune.

I also think that GS made a big mistake last season in taking the captain's armband from Boateng - and giving it to Arca! If he had given it to Luke perhaps he would have been persuaded to stay?

Posted by: Jeremy Newbegin  | August 13, 2008 6:15 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Been trying to get on the board for ages, here is a transcript of a tapped phone call. Obviously I cannot reveal my source

‘Hi Martin, its Randy, how’re you doing’

‘Fine, Mr Lerner, and you? Will we see you soon?’

‘May come over for week one. Just called to see how you were getting on with camp with the regular season under two weeks away. Any news on the players?’

‘It is called pre season over here Mr Lerner. The good news is that Barry looks like he is staying.’

‘Great, he’s the quarter back isn’t he? What about the defensive ends?’

‘Barry is what we call a midfield player, he makes the moves so he is similar to a quarterback. What you call defensive ends, we call full backs. I think we will be OK on the left hand side because the team he plays for were relegated so may need to sell because their revenue will go down. If you remember we are not like NFL franchises where you can have a losing season then get the best pick if the new players, the teams that lose the most drop out of the top league.’

‘With you on that Martin. What about the right sided one?’

‘Problem is that the good ones are at clubs who are not interested in selling and what is more they don’t want to weaken their sides with less than 10 days until the season starts. They will have been through pre season and made all their plans and done all their training and routines, that is why we could do with one coming in now. The ones that are available are available because they are not good enough or their club has been relegated.’

‘Surely there must be someone available of the right quality.’

‘Look Mr Lerner, no offence but no-one in their right mind would sell their first choice full back to a team they are competing with. Why take the risk of trying to find someone at short notice, there just isn’t a suitable replacement’

‘Martin, I made my fortune selling to smucks. I guarantee there is someone dim enough out there to take the money without thinking. Trust me.’

‘Ok Mr Lerner, I can but try………’

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 13, 2008 8:14 PM

Ken wrote...

AV - John Powls beat me to it, but is Sky correct when they say "Middlesbrough have expressed interest in signing Al Ali Habsi" ??

If you remember, he kept Bolton in the Premiership single-handed - not an exaggerration - he stopped a number of goals (in spectacular fashion noted by the commentators) that would have caused them to drop points.

Sky reports that he has one year left, and refuses to sign a new deal, so it would seem that Bolton would feel the same necessity to cash in, as we felt with Young.

It would be the best signing since Alves ( no disrespect meant to the new young lads ).

PS Seeing Hoyte on the bench in Holland, combined with Arsenal's major injury worries, combined with Hoyte's statements about wanting to stay at Arsenal, would likely make that a dead end...

Posted by: Ken  | August 14, 2008 12:31 AM

John Powls wrote...

Once Barry is Euro Cup Tied this evening and with Arse'n'all Whinger's evident midfield problems and Spurs pockets full of cash from Berbatov watch Stewie come back onto the radar of The Scousers, Gunners and Spurs.

An Eng-er-lund get together soon gives increased tapping opportunities - as if such were needed.

Who's taking bets now on Twente going a further goal down in the second leg at The Emirates and then putting all of their attacking subs on for the last twenty minutes for an astounding 3-4 win.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 14, 2008 9:59 AM

Billy (Berks) wrote...

I'm not sure about Al Habsi myself.
"If you remember, he kept Bolton in the Premiership single-handed - not an exaggerration - he stopped a number of goals (in spectacular fashion noted by the commentators) that would have caused them to drop points."
He only played 10 games in the PL last season, so he didn't do it all on his own (I dont' have the stats on how many of those 10 games ended in defeat however).
What I do remember though is the amount of people who come on this blog to criticise the club when it appears that we buy people simply because they had a good game against us once!

Posted by: Billy (Berks)  | August 14, 2008 11:14 AM

davwind wrote...

The Count has just been on TALKSPORT and revealed the fee is agreed with ARSENAL and discussions will begin with Hoyte tomorrow. So will this lift the doom and gloom on this blog?
Just a quick point on the sale of Luke Young. It is normal policy at ARSENAL to move players on when approaching the twilight of their career ie 30, or if they are special just give them a one year extension. This is seen by most as good business sense yet when Southgate does it he is castigated and he managed a profit! Selling their best player a year ago in HENRY was another fans claimed was bad business and couldn't be replaced. Up stepped ADEBAYOR. The same could be said of MAN YOO and BECKHAM.......

Posted by: davwind  | August 14, 2008 11:17 AM

Billy (Berks) wrote...

OK, got the stats and I'm even less convinced by the clamour for Al Habsi (I was a Schwarzer fan though, so what do I know?). With Bolton's number two in the line-up:
Won 3, Lost 4, Drew 3
Goals for 8
Goals against 11
We'll only be able to make comparisons once either of our two have had a 10 game run in the PL and even then it won't be like for like.
If Jones or Turnbull have a blinder against Bolton will some of their fans be clamouring to buy either of them?

Posted by: Billy (Berks)  | August 14, 2008 11:31 AM

Peter Holton wrote...

Whats this LOVEMIDDLESBROUGH rubbish. Dishing out postcards, facepaint and free foam hands again. How embarrassing.


Clueless!

Posted by: Peter Holton  | August 14, 2008 11:43 AM

Nigel wrote...

Ian Gill - good tapping, I like it!
I read an excellent article in The Times yesterday commenting on the 'billionaires' who have invested in prem. clubs in recent seasons, it refered to the fact that some have been less succesful than others, West Ham, Man City and The Barcodes were mentioned.
It got me thinking (no easy task) a couple of seasons ago just before the season started we were posting on here expressing our worries that there was an influx of foreign cash into the prem. and as a result Boro would be left behind , Gibbo should sell etc etc.
In a word - FEAR
Last season we had no strikers, therefore no goals would come - relegation loomed - FEAR
This season despite a good pre-season a decent looking squad we sell Young and there are 100+ posts expresing anger/disapointment etc - FEAR
Lets face it we are close to the start of the season we are looking forward with some anticipation but also with some trepidation.
Fear is the gap between the known and the unknown and at the moment we don't know how the season will pan out, hopefully we will beat Spurs and some of the fear will ebb away.

Posted by: Nigel  | August 14, 2008 11:48 AM

Jarkko wrote...

MFC official pages now say that Arsenal have accepted Boro's bid for 23-year-old Hoyte. So it seems that the club has kept their promise again.

Why cannot we just trust GS and Gibbo to di their job?

I think the season looks good - just an extra midfielder is needed. I am sure Gibbo will find the money if the right man comes available.

Posted by: Jarkko  | August 14, 2008 12:12 PM

John Powls wrote...

BoroPhil

Just before we get too cosy - I should ask how come with a fee agreed with Arse'n'all it's going to take 24 to 48 hours to get Hoyte up from darn sarf for contract talks and a medical! Sorry, mate - couldn't resist.

Wonder whether it will be a double up with Verhaegh or whether that's just trying to keep pressure on the deal.

I've said what I've said about Hoyte and I'm more than half hoping he turns down the personal terms but Gate seems determined and if the deal happens and once he's one of us- well, he's one of us.

It's too late for Hoyte for Saturday now anyway.

I'm amazed that young Williams seems to be in some folks' thoughts for Saturday rather than Tony Mc. Williams is a fine centre back prospect but Saturday's not the time to find out whether he can show the same promise in a position he's had about 70 minutes at in friendlies against poor opposition as Tony Mc has already delivered in the heat of battle.

Good news on the Season Cards front. Just makes one wonder why there was such a veil of secrecy. I'm presuming that was from fear of criticism that the fall in full price season card holders would be picked up and criticised.

But if that was the worry, it'll happen anyway. Views like that play into the other bit of the Lawro review of Boro's season - that Boro suffer because as fans we're apathetic.

At the risk of courting controversy - and excepting, evidently, anyone on here and the home and away faithful - even allowing for economic issues on Teesside I would have to say he's probably right.

That's why I think Neil Bausor's also right that the group to win back are out there and the next target to get back on a match by match basis and then committed to a season card.

Rightly or wrongly, I don't think any of them are going to be excited or attracted by any of the signings we've yet made or are likely to make before the end of August (Al Habsi and a creative midfielder, please. Pretty please!) but rattling into a very good Spurs side on Saturday and turning on the style will be the best boost to that effort you could get.

Posted by: John Powls  | August 14, 2008 12:15 PM

Nigel wrote...

So season ticket sales 5% up, we all got that one wrong! Great news especially as the 'new' supporters are largely from the younger end of the age range.
We also seem to be on the brink of signing Hoyte, even so playing him on Saturday seems an unnecessary risk to me.
All we need now is a keeper!!

Posted by: Nigel  | August 14, 2008 12:23 PM

stockton red wrote...

Just got back from summer hols in anticipation of the new season. AV- I might well have written similar words to your goodself the day the story broke but a week on my view is not so strident.

We have lost a very decent full back but this does not confirm that we are a selling club. Are Spurs a selling club as they've lost Keane and are about to lose Berbatov?Are Man Utd a selling club because they sold Ince Beckham and Van Nisteroy at their peak?

NO this is football where players come and go and will continue to move about .Somebody once said every player has his price and bar the odd individual with the very biggest clubs this is the case.

The only thing that bothers me is why didnt we ask Villa to wait for 7-10 days to allow us to identify a replacement.

We need a replacement , a damn good midfielder and a goalkeeper.An experienced goalie on loan till January would suffice in case the Jones/Turnbull experiment fails.We still have a couple of weeks to do the business.

I liked Luke Young .He was a solid capable full back and I'm sorry he's gone.I can assure you that in my time as a Boro fan we've lost far more influential players than him and prospered in the long term.Souness Juninho Emerson and Merson spring to mind.

Posted by: stockton red  | August 14, 2008 12:31 PM

Abu Dhabi Cliff wrote...

Regarding Al-Habsi, I worked in his home country Oman for a few years and saw him put in some great displays for his country. He single-handedly almost won Oman the GCC cup one year.(equivalent to the old home internationals among the Persian Gulf States). In Oman itself he is the number one sporting superstar - though admittedly there is not a lot of competition for that position. He`s got international and premier league experience and has been noted had some good games last season - especially against the Boro unfortunately.
So lets give him a go - he won`t cost too much and can`t be any worse than Corporal Jones - with Turnbull as the understudy. Times a-running out GS!

Posted by: Abu Dhabi Cliff  | August 14, 2008 4:21 PM

Richard wrote...

Ian Gill:

Ian, I liked that! Your sources would appear to be as impeccable as mine!

When it comes to football ("soccer" that is - the proper football - not the one the US nambies play, throwing their odd shaped "ball" thing and dressed in reinforced ballerina tights that leave little to the imagination and Chobham armour that gives them the (rear) physique profile of Sue Ellen Ewing or a Vulcan bomber in a nose-dive), Randy's obviously not too fast a Lerner. Maybe one of the New England "sloe" Lerners - with a fondness for pink gin?

He obviously leaves the finer detail to Martin and just writes the (big) cheques (or should I say "checks"?)!

Posted by: Richard  | August 14, 2008 5:46 PM

Ken wrote...

To Billy (Berks) :

The assessment of Al-Habsi was from seeing him play (on TV, but for keepers, that is equal or better than in person).

The goals that he saved in the last weeks of the season, would have relegated Bolton had they not been saved.

It is harsh to judge a single player in a relegation battle team on Won-Lost record - even a goalkeeper.

Posted by: Ken  | August 14, 2008 9:07 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

You may say that but I couldnt possibly comment. But from fans I know Villa have a good chairman, the irony is that elsewhwere fans who laughed and sniggered at the Glazers at ManU have egg on their faces.

Dont like the situation there but it is better than the infighting at LPool.

As for us us, Gibbo is a hero but a benign dictator is still a dictator. Wouldnt change him for the muppets we have around the other clubs. Neil Bausor seems to be making a difference to things. Not perfect yet, but moving in the right direction. A most astute aquisition.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 14, 2008 10:21 PM

Ste Mac wrote...

Losing Young isn't a disaster but it is a big, big blow and however you look at it it leaves us weaker. Hoyte may be potential and may be great in two years time but Young was quality now. I'm not sure that trade is so good for the club. We'll see.

There's a lot of talk now (after the event naturally, its the Boro way) how he was a bit of moaner in the changies and so getting rid was a good thing all round but unless Hoyte (or whoever) turns out to be better it could still be egg on face time.

Young is the best RB we've had at the Riverside. Cox, Fleming, Stockdale, Stamp, Mills, Parnaby, Xavier, McMahon... none a patch on him. To go forward you have to bring in better than what you've got. We seem to be leaving a lot to chance.


Posted by: Ste Mac  | August 14, 2008 10:56 PM

John Walker wrote...

I have to confess to having initial doubts about selling Luke Young but I had heard the rumours that he was unhappy at being so far from his native London. When we identified Justin Hoyte as his replacement it started to look like excellent business on our part, despite his excellent performances last season Luke Young is nowhere near as quick as Hoyte and this lad will improve with regular first team football. Gareth is building a very exciting young team with lots of pace and the thought of either Aliadiere or Emnes down the right with Hoyte behind is a promising combination. He may not be as good a defender as Young but he has the pace to recover from mistakes and Sol Campbell based a whole career on that.

Posted by: John Walker  | August 18, 2008 10:55 AM

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