Time To Set The Benchmark For Success
SO WHO will Boro be measured against this season? What is the yardstick of acceptable success? Above the soap opera side at Sid James'? Higher than serial Spurs seconds signing Sunderland? Closing the gap on the Man City side we spanked 8-1 on the final day? "Doing an Everton"? "Doing a Blackburn"? Or just one place above the newly promoted cannon fodder ?
Ironically, while the top and bottom of the table have become increasingly, boring predictable, the mid-table makeweights have been thrown wildly around in a spittle-flecked mosh-pit of mediocrity for the best part of a decade. Everton have flirted with relegation and touched the Champions League and no-one would bet against them being dragged back into the scrum this term. Bolton have soared to the cusp of the big time only to be sucked back down among the dead men. Villa, Spurs and Newcastle have vacillated wildly between being just outside the bottom six and just outside the top six in a series of false dawns. And Boro have been enmeshed in the flux too, going from highest ever Prem position and UEFA Cup qualification to a string of turgid water-treading terms that have tested the mettle of even the most ardent foam hander.
Throughout that rocky ride we have set subliminal pre-season targets, usually based on whichever of our peers raised eyebrows and their profile in the previous campaign by a temporary elevation. Given the turbulence in the table it is hard to quantify the target in terms of position and points. Far easier to simply pick a well performing peer that you expect to finish above and make that the mark.
There was time not long ago when Charlton were the model. Only two years ago we were having serious angst-ridden arguments over whether we could emulate Bolton. And elsewhere, hard as it may seem to believe now, as Steve McClaren's side won the Carling Cup, finished seventh and swept erratically through Europe, we were the benchmark as others hoped their also-rans could 'do a Boro'.
Maybe it is a reflection of the downsizing of our collective ambitions that most Boro fans will not see next season as being a serious challenge to match Aston Villa, Everton and Spurs, who two or three years ago we were marginally in front of despite their financial advantages. Nor even, for most, will it be about catching Manchester City and Portsmouth who back then we were well ahead of on and off the pitch.
No, this season will be about where we finish in relation to Newcastle and Sunderland, West Ham, Wigan and Blackburn. Pick any one of that group - Premier League Division Three - if you want to be more exacting in your benchmark this campaign.
The local angle is about more than just parochial pride but a reflection of the current status quo. Newcastle finished in 12th, one point and one place above Boro with Sunderland two places and three points behind. Newcastle have failed to strengthen and are hampered by a dysfunctional football management structure, a volatile boss and an owner who wears the shirt but appears keen to sell up. Sunderland - a glorified Championship side last term - have beefed up considerably and signed a string of players that have had their advocates among the Riverside crowd in recent years. The £50m plus they have spent in the past 14 months should show on the pitch this time round.
After staying up with the help of their briefs West Ham splashed out on a casualty ward full of perma-crocked ex-Magpies last term and were expected to be big players but faded into a dull grey anonymity in mid-table and need to improve dramatically or they could slip back to their natural status as yo-yo club this time while Wigan pulled off a great escape last term and have revamped their squad but still have Titus Bramble at the heart of their defence while so are far from safe and Blackburn, last term's surprise package, have to bounce back from the departure of Mark Hughes and David Bentley and consolidate under top flight rookie Paul Ince while burdened with expectation and the haunted by the example of neighbours Bolton in how far it is possible to fall back in one traumatic season.
That the Premiership is now stratified so markedly is recognised by the bookies. The big firms that dominant the market know there is little attraction in betting on the top or bottom of the table and have now broken the division down into de facto mini-leagues. Most of their ante-post fixed odds coupons have "divisional betting" sections that break the league into distinct groups to make it interesting and attract the punters.
Going by the Corals coupon (it is the bookies at the Corra that I use but all the big boys have similar set-ups and prices) Boro are 7/2 to win 'Group C' with Blackburn (12/5), West Ham (12/5) just ahead and Sunderland (4/1) and Wigan (5/1) a bit adrift. They have promoted Newcastle to Group B alongside Everton, Villa, City and Pompey but have them trailing the best of the rest by some way.
It is hard to argue with that. Likewise in a section that pairs teams head-to-head in betting as to who will finsh higher (Man v Chelsea, Arsenal v Liverpool, Stoke v Hull etc) they have Boro at evens against Rovers as slight favourites at 8/11. Again, hard to argue. So Blackburn and Incey then as the team we need to beat. A more reassuring thought than being seen as squaring up against Mogga.
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Anthony Vickers
Spot on, realisticly Boro are in the third mini leauge of the devision 'Group C', however i have a feeling Boro have a chance of going one better in group B this season.
You look at the teams that are in this group just below the so called 'Top 4' which i am hopeing Boro are able to push on into to, and you have teams such as Everton who have been exceeding expectations for a couple of years now, but with an attack spearheaded by that plonker Yakubu who Boro fans are more than familiar with, misses more open goals than Michael Ricketts and could not header a ball to save his life, i carnt see him scoring to many goals again this season, despite his suprising impressive goal scoring record! Everton also have an extremely small squad which is always stretched to the bare bone with constant injuries to there two most creative midfielders Arteta and Cahill. I feel Everton could suprise a few people and drop out the top 10 this season.
You also look at Villa who also have a small squad and have a troublesome captain who's mind is all over the place! and even if he does leave that will leave Villa with a major void to fill come start of the season.
Once again Spurs have a total new team and usually it takes time to gell, unless they do a Manchester City last season, which in the end did fall to pieces! coff coff 8-1. Well they havent really dealt with that shakey defence of theirs and still have two injury prone centre backs in King and Woodgate so you could possibly expect Spurs to leak lots of goals again this season. Their new Mid fielders are also really light weight like Dos Santos and Modric, so they are not proven against some Premier league hard nuts.
Sorry I blabbered on a little bit there but the point is quite a few of those teams just behind the top 4 have some major holes which cause them selves some problems, where as i feel Boro have a nice balanced side with cover in all positions. Remember last season at one point we had no defenders, then no strikers! which effectivly ruined our season to be fair. I have a good feeling this year!
I am in complete confusion about our prospects for this season.
Looking at the squad I have not felt as optimistic and looked forward to the start of the season as much as this for a long time.
We have players who have entertained and shown their potential and it looks as if it could happen for us this year.
Alves and Mido (who I think will do well) looking fitter, Tungay and Aliadiere providing pace and enthusiasm and a settled defense who in theory should not have too many problems except against the very best.Supplement this with a few new faces and some of the kids coming through and it all looks rosy.
Despite all of this though I have this nagging fear that it is all going to go "Belly Up" and after losing to Spurs we will panic and the knee jerk reaction from the old Chicken Runners and their offspring will be to start sharpening the knives for GS.
Maybe its just pre season "Boro Butterflies" or natural cynicism based on the fact I have been a supporter for 45 years.
I think 99% of supporters would love GS to do well and I have yet to listen to another young manager who speaks as honestly and intelligently about the game as him. I think he is a credit to the Club and the Chairman who chose him.
Lets hope the supporters give him the backing he deserves and if we do have the odd stumble along the way continue to do so.
Only a week to go and I can't wait!!!
Tend to agree that Blackburn is a good benchmark.
I am very happy with what has taken place in the close season signings good profit from sales etc.
I still think our biggest problem could be injuries with a smaller squad as they seem to be happening already.
The second fear will be the shh no 1s if they dont do the buisness that will cost us points.
AV
The hardening of the concept of mini-leagues is very understandable (my belief is that it will harden its way into eventual separation between group A and the rest with the advent of a European Premier League sooner rather than later) and it feels to me as though Boro are bracketed with the right grouping.
Though I have little truck with bookies I have to hope that Corals odds are right on where we'll finish - and that there's a group D!
I think that most fans are realistic about this year and that a finish at the top of group C which avoids flirting with any group D and includes decent footy - particularly at The Riverside, a good punt at the Cups and sets us up for a crack at group B next season will be good enough for most.
I think we need those couple more signings that Gate talks of - though not maybe the ones he has in mind - to be sure of that.
Agree that Blackburn and Ince are the yardstick this year. And that's not just on what is likely to happen on the pitch.
There are all sorts of close-enough-to-be-interesting comparisons to be made between the two clubs, their resources, managers and supporters.
If The Baggies survive - and I think they will - they'll come in to that mix next season.
It would be interesting to have folks' view on the NE Prem League.
I'm pretty much in line with my old mate Mac in Bak(u)
I really don't know what to expect from Southgate's New Boro.
Pre-season games have given little if no indication of how we will fare this season, they never do. So I'm caught somewhere between mild optimism and nervous expectation.
I don't think we should be measuring ourselves against anyone, even our north east neighbours otherwise perspective can be lost. Southgate I'm sure will want his team to concentrate on performances week in week out without worrying about what others are doing.
However I would like to think we can break out of "Group C", and better still leave those lot up the A19 in our wake whilst doing just that.
I am looking forward to seeing Alves and Mido in their first full season with us, Aliadiere seems to be buzzing and Tuncay's enthusiasm is so infectious I am sure it will have great effect on this young teams motivation.
I'm a little concerned that our defensive performances in pre-season show a lack of cohesion and leadership, echoed by Southgate after the win at Hibs. But again it's pre-season so hopefully all will gel next weekend.
So let's get it on!!!
C'mon Boro!!
In theory our squad is much stronger than last year and we should expect the players who signed last year to be up to speed with the premiership.
In terms of where a B/C team can realistically finish in the league is usually totally dependent on the how good a start they make and whether the squad is strong enough to maintain the position.
Home to free-scoring Spurs and then away to the new Torres/Keane Liverpool attack will be a tough test for our seemingly leaky defence - I wouldn't like the prospect of Stoke at home being a 'must-win' game before the international break risked leaving us pointless and depressed for a couple of weeks.
Today, The Guardian is reporting that Villa are trying to snatch Young from us - which would be a disaster unless McMahon is 100% fit and ready and the money is somehow added to the Cattemole cash to bring in a top-class creative midfielder.
Also the keeper situation doesn't seem to have improved during pre-season with Turnbull still showing his inexperience and Jones not yet under scrutiny.
What also leaves me wondering about whether the management team is truly ready to get the best out of the squad is the belated discovery that O'Neil looks better inside and Ali looks decent on the right - both of which have been advocated on this blog by myself and many others.
Anyway, I'm already beginning to sound too negative - it's the Boro way - but in truth I think a top eight finish should be within our grasp as only Spurs and Pompey look capable of pushing on.
I think Newcastle are going to implode and Keegan will be replaced by October. Sunderland have bought a lot of average players at inflated prices who going to need several months to gel.
I've been confident all summer that we were heading in the right direction and thought there was a possibility we could compete in 'Group B' as you define it making us in contention for a top half finish.
However, as Mac in Bak writes, there is a nagging feeling there that it could all go terribly wrong - I personally blame those feelings on the negativity that we have to endure both on here elswehere - it eats away at you in the end until you start believing it a bit yourself.
Seeing Luke Young strongly linked with Villa in this morning's Guardian doesn't help mind - surely we wouldn't sell him to someone we should be aiming to finish ahead of?
However - I'm going to continue to resist the negativity and I think a top half finish is attainable. Winning against Spurs would help.
I see Villa are the latest ones to need a 'hands off' over Luke Young.
In one sense the interest from group B sides is a gratifying reflection of his performances last season but, of course, if we want to aspire to group B the last thing we can afford to do is let our group B (or group A in Stewie's case) players go.
I don't think this mini league is entirely relevant for the BORO to be adjudged successful.
Survival in the Premiership used to be a formula of 10 wins and 10 draws, the magical 40 points. However the BORO's best ever Premiership finish we only managed 14 wins which saw us finish 7th. A disappointing campaign last year with only 10 wins all season.
Success for me would be 14 - 15 wins, 30,000 regularly attending The Riverside to watch fast flowing attacking football with a new hero being born in ALVES and maybe an appearance at the new Wembley. Is this too much? Probably but it is pre-season and these hopes and dreams seem possible.
Success is only relative and I don't think that West Ham, Blackburn, The Skunks will be as successful this time around. But I can see improvement from SPURS, from the MACKEMS, from WIGAN but more importantly from the BORO.
The general opinion down south is that it's SUNDERLAND's time to be top dogs in the north east. I can't see it, Malbranque aside, you can keep their squad. Basic success for all BORO fans is to top the tree in our own three horse mini league, and that looks easy this time around!!!?!
AV
As you know I split the teams into three groupings.
The big boys
The sleeping giants
The lodgers.
We are one of the lodgers with a long term tenancy agreement so fall into mini league C with the occasional foray into league B.
We will never be a sleeping giant or a big boy but we can aspire to be the best of the rest and mix it with the sleeping giants.
The danger for a club like ours is not having a sustainable business model, to get too far beyond our means. We debated long and hard about MacMoses and he should he go. I stick with my statement from the time that he was going to leave whether he walked or was pushed. The squad was ageing and expensive, the signs were there despite the highs of the UEFA cup.
The club appear to be working towards something sustainable and able to keep us at the top of the lodgers amongst the sleeping giants, hopefully challenging for europe and tilting at cups, where top ten is the norm.
I hope I`m proved wrong, but I think the rose-tinded specs are out in force again. It will only take a couple of dodgy performances by whoever is between the sticks for the defence to become twitchy and that could spell disaster.
If our chosen keeper actually does measure up to Premiership standards, and if Gareth actually has a clue about how to use the players at our disposal, we should have a reasonable season, which for me would be 10th place or above.
I`m not looking for miracles, just some good attacking football - at the Riverside - and a committed team.
I still feel there is an awful lot of transfer activity to come between now and the window closing.
Several clubs may find themselves swapping players quite a bit in the remaining weeks especially if the major moves like Barry and/or Berbatov come to fruition. Those 2 selling clubs will have cash to splash which could cascade down the rest of the division.
Frankly though the recent transfer activity will if anything send the gap between 4th and 5th even greater and plunge the rest closer together. I dont think the distinction you have drawn between B and C premier divisions will continue this season. If anything the relegation battle could easily start from 5th place.
Everton are sounding a bit anxious about the lack of transfer activity - I cant see them closing the gap with what they have and if anything they will fall away.
Portsmouth may find the exertions of Europe knocks them back a bit too.
Villa look capable to me of climbing to 5th especially if they use the money from Barry wisely.
Man City are in a mess frankly. Hughes is a good manager but really has inherited a poisoned chalice. They could easily sink.
Blackburn too look dodgy. Ince has a hard act to follow and they could implode like Bolton after Allardyce. there seems to be an exodus of quality from them this season and if Santa Cruz goes too they will be in trouble.
West ham were appalling last season. how such an inept side could be so comfortably mid-table is frankly amazing.
Newcastle little better and they have done nothing in the close season to suggest better times ahead.
Spurs have to replace Keane's goals and if Berbatov goes too I cants ee them climbing the table. Not sure what their manager is playing at frankly. He seems not to be bothered about replacements before he sells.
Fulham, Bolton, Sunderland and Wigan have all added to their squads and could catch those above them if they blend - a big if I know. But in Sunderland's case they at least look much stronger on paper with experienced premiership players coming in - even if I wouldnt want any of them at Boro frankly.
So onto Boro - what now? Well the goalkeeping is sub Premiership standing and finishing still seems to happen rarely in my opinion. We couldnt keep a clean sheet with schwarzer and has been pointed out most efforts on target last season ended up in our net and frankly I cant see that changing. So our strikers are seriously going to ahve to learn how to put chances away or else we are in trouble.
As usual we all look to the 3 coming up to fail in order to keep us up. shouldn't we really be looking for something a little more?
I see that we're allegedly 'sweating on Arca's fitness'. Not me.
Not that I want any of our squad unavailable through injury but I just hope that Arca isn't anything like first choice. If he is it just shows the lack of the creative midfielder we have long since argued for.
Much more exercised by the potential loss of Pogi - both as Captain and central defender.
Although he's only played 45 in pre-season that performance which Phil and I saw against Celtic in The Algarve was just immense.
We have able deputies but no-one yet who matches up to the full Pogi package at centre back and as Captain.
Hello AV - Long time reader, First time poster
For me this season I just want to see consistancy and progression. The only consistant thing about Boro in previous seasons is we are inconsistant!
We finished 13th last year, I just want us to push on from that. Anything between 12th and 8th and I will be happy. That may sound pessimistic, which in a sense it is, but I think our goal should be to close gaps and push on. Not saying we should be Champions League material all the time like our neighbours to the North.
It will be a massive season for Southgate. Its his 3rd season, he's no longer 'the rookie', his squad, his management, his ideas. I cant wait to be a part of it, starting in the next week.
Injuries are key, few & we can move on up to group B. We're a young, keen & hungry team this season & our strength could be attacking (dare to believe!) The keeper is our obvious weak link but I think Turnbull can keep the gloves & have a Wheater'esque season. (obviously my pint is brimming)
Of the others I think Fulham could have a good year & of group B: Spurs, injury prone defence & a diminishing forward line. Everton yet to improve though Anachibie could be one to watch. Man City, expect to be solid and still a striker light in my eyes. Newcastle.. ha! workman like in midfield, defence needs recruits & injury prone strikers a relegation to at least group C for them.
"Mac in Bak" - fully agree with you. I too am confused as to what may happen this season, yet more optomistic about the squad than recent years.
The one problme I see is our goalkeeper. We seem to have let in a lot of silly goals in the friendly games so far. Sincerely hope Private Jones is not our main keeper, happier with Turnbull although he still is a little inexperienced. Jones simply isn't even good enough to be a no.2 let alone No.1. We need a keeper,even if only to be no'2 to Turnbull, who I am sure will improve as the season progresses given the chance to play regularly.
As long as the team entertains, plays with passion and doesn't throw away points, I'll be happy as long as we are a couple of places away from those bottom 3at the end of the season!!
Mac in Bak,
I'm not sure about the Boro Butterflies, probably more like Boro stealth bombers, looking at our choice of keepers.
The whole team structure looks opitmistic enough to finish mid 'B' table, however, the number 1 spot makes me think table C is on the cards again; despite GS's comments on BBC Tees last Monday.
Hope beyond hope I'm wrong....
With a squad that has no one 30 or over, Id normally thing we are lacking in experience, but i am looking forward to the new season a younger fitter squad with loads of pace is a welcome change.
Alves will get the goals, Mido (owes us a good season) Tuncay who i think will be a class act this season and will have the big boys chasing him will set the premier league alight. Downing chipping in with 10 plus goals, and Emnes looking very promising indeed.
I think we can do what Reading did 2 seasons ago and finish Top Eight with a bit of luck with injurys especially Huth who I hope will form a good partnership with Wheater.
This is Southgates third season and i hope for him its a cracker.
If we had a decent keeper we should be pushing for for the top ten.
The best bet for me is backing Alves at 50/1 EW to be in the top four PL goalscorers.
40/1 for you AV if you go to Corals.
C'Mon Boro!
"Newcastle have failed to strengthen and are hampered by a dysfunctional football management structure"
Would disagree with you there old chap.
Two current Argy Internationals + 2 other young signings in (so far) against Rozehnal Carr Ramage and Emre out sounds like improvement to me albeit not a vast one.
As for the dysfunctional management, are you not believing the hype of your own southern based journalist friends.
Newcastle and Boro will be fighting for a top half place next season, Sunderland will finish 16th and Blackburn are agood outside bet for the drop.
MacinBak & Rich - I couldn't agree more.
Boro are sooooo close to catching the teams above them - but they are also soooo close to getting dragged into the bottom 6/7 again.
Our strike force looks outstanding - but can we keep them all happy?
Our midfield is solid and is starting to look younger and fresher.
The back four is OK but needs strengthening and the goal keeping position is a massive concern.
As a Boro fan - you just can't help feeling nervous. It's like waiting for England to kick off their next international campaign. Impending disaster looms large. We are part of a select group of fans that fears the worst at the start of each season - guaranteed relegation, administration, financial irregularities, points deducted, relegation to League One, losing local derbies against Hartlepool, the inability to get promotion, etc (apologies to all Leeds fans for bringing this up).
Man City, Boro, West Ham, Sunderland, even Everton ... we all have decent teams but we can't help fearing the worst. What we need is a change of attitude throughout the club - from fan to centre forward - hopefully Gareth can achieve this. I think this should be his first priority - if he can make the club feel positive, he will enjoy great success. If the attitude doesn't change, we're doomed to a mid table, plenty of clean sheets, top scorer with 12 existence - I don't want to become Aston Villa!
Good luck lads... think positive as we'll be fine!
In this league its about scoring goals and the first time for along time it looks like we have it ,in the squad,if we can make a decent start,with more wins than draws or losses,we might shock a few pundits,and it looks like some of the kids are really knocking on the door
I too am caught between mild optimism and nervous expectation for the forthcoming season.
The fact Huth is coming back is a major bonus, he is top class on his dayand IF he stays injury free i can see him and Wheater as a great partnership. My worry is the left-back position as i'm not sure Taylor is up to the job. Perhaps Pogi at left-back again? I'll decline to comment on the goalkeper position only to say that GS is a very brave manager and i hope he is correct in his judgement.
Midfield looks young, hungry and full of pace. I like the look of O'Neil and Digard in the middle and Downing/Johnson and Aliadiare/Johnson combination on the wings. Shawky and Emnes are a ready made substitutes in case of injuries.
Alves will score plenty of goals if he is given service from the wings. I think him up front with Tuncay in behind would be perfect. Mido can BEEF up the frontline depending on how the game is going.
All in all i reckon we should finish between 8th and 10th with a slim chance of a UEFA Cup spot.
A good performance last night by the younger elements of our squad. Assuming Darlo were near full strength that is a commendable effort.
A very minor quible is that I would have liked to have seen the 'first team' on display but with all the minor niggles that seem to be around there is no sense taking any risks.
**AV writes: The Quakers' side was largely second string reserves and kids too.
I know it was only a friendly and only against Darlo, but wasn't it nice to see us deal with lower league opponents in the way that we should for once.
Good also to see Johnno play well, making and taking goals. Doubtless, this will excite some more unwanted interest which must be rebuffed, just like any further interest in Luke Young.
More good news with Emnes notching his first for Boro. It would be great if Mido and Tuncay could get off the mark against Sparta on Friday. That would mean all of our front players breaking their duck in pre-season.
A clean sheet is always to be welcomed - especially in this pre-season.
Ian Gill's wish list for the final two friendlies is now half delivered - and in style. Let's hope that the second part goes as well against Sparta on Friday, setting us up well for the opener against Spurs.
Not good news on the Arca injury front but - to repeat what I said above - I hope that this turns Gate's attention from the workaday transfer target options like Harper to someone more creative.
With Digard and Shawky playing well and Gary O'Neil showing the form many of expected from him in the box to box role we have enough holding and 'water carrying' options.
I really do believe that there is little between the clubs outside of the top four. Any one team, except those three promoted, plus Fulham, could possibly finish fifth in the PL. Equally, as predicted by others in this particular thread, certain teams who finished in the top ten last season could go down this coming season. It’s a fine line.
There is very little difference between the various squads. Pompey may have an advantage as they have more depth after more good signings this summer. They would be my favourite to finish fifth.
It is a matter of getting off to a good start and maintaining a mild level of consistency. Luck comes into it, with injuries and suspensions, (we have just sold a potential 25 yellows and 3 reds during the summer) but overall it is about confidence, belief and commitment. Take the game to the opposition.
Strangely, the air of optimism around Teesside makes me nervous, simply because it brings with it a very scary word, a word that seems to convert Boro legs and hearts into jelly……..Expectation. Throw us into a match as the underdog and we play without fear, as the top four found out last season. However….there is no need to go into detail those games where we all expected Boro to win and we fell apart, mentally. I hope Gareth has sorted that one out.
Confidence, belief and commitment will take us into the top eight. We appear to have an exciting squad who can go on to achieve something. Now, it needs tactful and brave management to make it happen.
Whereever you set the benchmark it won't be good enough for the moaners.
We ARE in group C and are probably not big enough to ever get into Group B for more than one or two seasons at a time. Those thinking we SHOULD be there need their bumps feeling.
Watching Boro's youth perform in last night's match against Darlington, although entertaining, it didn't give me any real "feel" for which of the Boro lads would be likely to cut it with the big boys in the Premier League. But that’s my problem – not theirs! And of course the coaching staff will be assessing this continuously in their practice matches against the seniors.
That said, I was impressed by the quality on display throughout the team that was fielded. Great one-touch interplays and many great first touches showing great ball-skills. It was a good match, played at what appeared to be high tempo and the result at 0-5 in Boro's favour was a fair reflection on the balance of play.
Things that struck me of some significance from last night:
Emnes - a willing runner off the ball and finds space. He was always available and a threat going forward. The boy knows where the goal is! Great feet and an intelligent, thoughtful and energetic player. Took his goal brilliantly, (against close, but non-Premiership marking).
Rhys Williams (I think) No3, at left back - a great prospect. Lively, confident, great control, willingness to run and support the forwards and defensive positional play was great. On this performance, an exciting prospect and not necessarily confined to a left back role. He wouldn't look out of place in left midfield if required. Still a bit slightly built, but may "fill out" a bit, so that bigger boys may bounce off him a bit more! He was good!
Adam Johnson - a useful ball player. However, Adam may be developing a problem in that is that he appears to think he's better than he actually is. He's NOT the finished article and is beginning to show signs of a self-important attitude. He appeared to "take" the ball away from a colleague when he earned the penalty for the opening goal. He openly whinged when colleagues failed to find him with a ball when he considered he was in open space. Yet this is a young man the weakness of whose game is precisely that - his final ball.
He needs to keep his feet firmly planted or he won't realise the potential he may have, but has not yet fully demonstrated. (I’ve made the comparison before with Aaron Lennon – great runner with the ball, but what to do with the damned thing at the end of the possession. Maybe he needs to be more aware of what’s going on around him when in possession. That’ll take some doing as he’ll be concentrating on beating the immediate opposition. However, it’s what he’ll have to do to be great! That said, he DID take his second goal extremely well and his penalty kick dink over the keeper was cheekily and competently accomplished.
Muhammad Shawky - steady without being flashy. A good turn of speed.
Brad Jones - although not tested too often, made a couple of useful and necessary stops.
There were a few others worthy of singling out, but I could only do so by shirt number through lack of familiarity with them - not having seen many of them until last night, as many of them haven't made a first team appearance at the Riverside yet. Boro's No 4 and No 7 each had good match.
I got the impression that Tony McMahon has yet to fully recapture the form that had him breaking into the senior squad a few seasons ago before his unfortunate series of injuries.
There wasn't an obvious weakness in the Boro team, and there were some impressive displays. But like I hinted the beginning, it's hard to judge Premier League potential when the opposition's relatively poor.
I am still a little shakey about our goal keeping and if we are a little light still in mid field then what about Jimmy Bullard? he seems to me the sort of player we could do with? I arent a footie expert but he has always stood ourt for me, James Harper? sorry indellible blank that one!
Emmnes goal last night was a a good sign, we havent scored enough goals like that
AV
Thanks for the info on Darlo, still a good run out for some of the seniors and the kids.
Richard
You mention Jinky and his final ball. This subject has reared its head before with other players.
Fergie used to get irate with Giggs,
we all see him now and applaud his work rate and contribution, he was well into his 20's before his final ball or shot came close to the finished article. It was not unusual to see three players on the floor in his wake and Nora in row z ducking. In that respect Downing is front of him at his current age, Giggs improved with experience. But to think of him creating and scoring bucket loads of goals at 22 is not correct wonderful player that he is.
Beckham was on loan at Preston when he was 22 and he did alright for himself.
The problem for Jinky is that he has Downing in front of him. If both continue to progress they will get the chance at new levels. Downing may move on for a huge fee, we may be in europe and need more from the squad in terms of matches, Downing may get an injury.
Notice Gate talking about improving the squad, musnt buy a Lee or Eueulluseless for the sake of it.
Erratum: Boro's No3 last night was, I now believe, Joe Bennett. As I said, whoever No3 was - he looked good!! Sorry boys for not being as ID familiar as I feel I perhaps ought to be.
The absence of names on the back of shirts, of course, didn't help much!! Do they not HAVE names until they're famous or something??!! Or are they like new model cars that get dummy body panels attached to them when they go out for test drives before they're launched? Erm.....why?
I'm not trying to pass the blame for getting recognition wrong, by the way. But identification could be made easier.
Incidentally, if you think parking and access to the Riverside is difficult - try Darlo's stadium!! Queuing for 45 minutes to get into a pre-ticketed car park berth (I picked the ticket up the day previous) and the car park was almost full when I got in with 5 minutes of the game gone. Yet the crowd was only maybe 5-6K in a 20K seater stadium.
Crackin' stadium though and the big screen TV is impressive. Who is it that's in the Premier League exactly?
There's been a lot of debate here about the players. Are they fit, are they good enough, do they have the desire etc etc. That's all good stuff and important to the way we will play and the position we'll finish in the league.
To me though the most important issues are those of management, motivation and tactics and it's here that I have the most concerns. Have we really learnt from last season or will we still make the same naive mistakes? Time will tell but I was the the Hibs game and and came away no more certain than I was before kick-off.
As people have already noted the defence was really poor until they scored the second goal. I believe the problem is that we haven't yet got a system the players can work consistently. They don't seem sure whether they are zonal or man for man marking. In the confusion a mediocre Hibs score twice. We still defend far too deep at times and can all to often have all our outfield players in our penalty box and then seem surprised that we can't relieve the pressure on the defence. This problem was identified last term but is still there. These things need to be finally put to bed.
I am also concerned that, as last season, management doesn't know the strongest team and formation. With all the chopping and changing in pre-season players have not had the chance to get used to each other and their styles of play and often looked confused at Hibs - lots of arm waving and glaring at team mates.
Indiscipline caused us suspensions at difficult times last season and, again, at Hibs nothing much had changed. Silly bookings and one potential sending off are not needed in friendly. GS has to get a much firmer grip of his players or our small squad will too easily be decimated by suspensions.
So where does that leave us? There are undoubtedly the players to take the Boro to the next level. Are management up to it? If they are then a top ten finish is easily within reach. If not we're in for another season of nail biting. We'll know in the first two months.
Sorry - but nothing less than Champions will do! This is the mentality that our beloved club should have, at all levels, from the chairman to the tea lady!
Eddie
AV,
The BBC say on Thursday: "Aston Villa are close to securing the signature of Middlesbrough right-back Luke Young for about £5m and Reading's Nicky Shorey for £4m. (Various newspapers)"
Are there any truth in there as the Gazette have reported nothing of this kind?
**AV writes: See tonight's Gazette.
The Luke Young to Villa story seems to be firming up. If true the £5 million fee would be a good profit but at what cost?
In my view he was one of the star players last season and would be hard to replace. Gate has talked about needing experience in the squad, his leaving would hardly ease the situation and the thought of using the money to bring in Harper is worrying.
It would also be a blow to the fans morale and what would the effect be on the players? It would be a sign we really were running the club for money reasons. A back four of McMahon, Wheats, Huth and Taylor with Jones or Turnbull behind would be very raw to say the least.
Lets hope it is only talk but this story is starting to look ominous as it is now featuring on TV. I know all media have to fill their available space so we have to be wary until something more concrete is known.
**AV writes: I refer the honourable gentlemen to my last answer.
Interesting, no worrying, that after a few weeks of delays in posts appearing on the blog the right honourable gentleman for Untypical Boro is suddenly able to post and respond straight away. I am not impuning the work ethic of the said gentleman or the veracity of previous technical difficulties but to be able to respond to saddos at such an early hour suggests something akin to a trip to the dentist is looming.
It appears the initial thread for this blog was inspired in its choice. It is becoming clear that we will have to temper our pre season cptimism. As the story appears to be true it is easy to envisage a series of panic buys.
Hoping that against my instincts the gazette will report gate saying Young is going nowhere. Oops!
John B, sorry but i totally disagree with you here. We are playing friendly games right now not full pace premier league games.
I couldnt give a monkeys if we lost every friendly but then finished 5th next season. They are merely games to get players up to speed with their match fitness whilest at the same time they are trying new training methods and blooding young kids into the squad where they wouldnt normally get the opportunity.
I dont think you can read to much into pre season friendlies however the defending deep and releasing pressure are major points that maybe still havnt been addressed. but whos to say thats not a tactic to get better at it and actually practise it in a real game environment.
As long as we beat spurs and get a good start and then finish in the premier league at the end of the season I couldnt care leess how we do in friendlies.
COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!
AV - is it just speculation that Young is signing for Villa?
Our most consistent player of last season, if he goes its going to be time to accept that Boro have no ambition.
GSs words of taking the club to the Champion's League will sound very hollow indeed, if one of our best players is sold to a team who we would have hoped to compete with this season.
If Young goes I will not be spending anymore money on MFC.
I weaned myself off away games after the Man City debacle a couple of seasons ago, as painful as it seemed at the time, financially it made a big difference.
Home games in the pub might not seem so bad.
Why should I spend my money if the club who seem to have salted away the £30m+ Sky money and then sell one of its best players?
I won't be visiting the golf course or hotel that Steve Gibson is building, I also will not be visiting the Riverside if the building elsewhere leads to the dismantling of the team.
C'Mon Boro!
**AV writes: No, it is not just speculation. Can't say any more until after the daily paper deadline.
On the Luke Young to Villa story, The Times this morning was as firm as it gets that the deal was done before the ink is actually dry. The Times is quoting £3.5m which is pretty derisory and could hardly count as good business.
This would not just be bad in terms of the loss of Young - though, goodness knows, that's bad enough - but contradicts what Gate has said both about experience in the squad and also about not planning to let anyone go.
Rather, he has said he was still looking to bring in more.
If you add to that the signal that it gives to the other predator clubs with money to burn who may be considering moves for, say, Stewie and Johnno and indeed what it says to those players about how serious Gate and MFC are in their ambitions it may precipitate another couple of moves we wouldn't want to see.
Of course, if someone is desperate to leave and the club coming in for them is an offer no self respecting professional could refuse then there is little that can be done, other than sue for the best deal you can get.
But there is no indication that Luke Young has signalled that he is unhappy and although Villa can probably expect to be at the top of group B in this season they're not going to break through to group A.
I also sincerely hope that this isn't some kind of misguided move to rake together the dosh to pay Reading an inflated price for a player of a type we don't need, Harper. The Times also resurrects that this morning - which makes you think!
They say we were quoted £3.5m (reasonable, given that that was what we got for Catts - and given that, despite all reasoning, Gate seems determined to get him). The £5m plus we're now being asked for is a joke and very poor value for scarce resources. But when you consider it in the light of what Gate and MFC seem about to do with Luke Young............
This would do nothing for the morale of supporters either - and just at a time when the first, cautious green shoots of some optimism were beginning to push through. This won't add numbers to the home gate - quite the opposite.
If true, and lets hope it isn't and Gate and MFC quash the story immediately, this is another big mistake to rank alongside the failure to recruit a good quality Prem experienced goalie.
It would also leave us with Tony McMahon at right back and no cover. From what I saw in The Algarve Tony Mc is making strides in his recovery from all the injuries but he's had very little football over recent seasons. A solid season backing up Luke Young would have been about right in his development.
So, it would leave us looking for a right back in a hurry. If we're going to pick up anyone worth looking at then it's going to take all of the reputed £3.5m we may be going to get for Young.
Which again begs the question - why?
Off topic, but have you heard any little whispers about the strong Luke Young to Villa rumours that have appeared in just about every journal over the last few days? Both the club and Gazette are strangely quiet.
Just as we think all is remotely good Boro agree a deal with Aston Villa for Young.....i thought the idea was to improve the squad not sell it's assets....i suppose this means downing will be going shortly as well......
5 million for one of our best players last year ridiculous!
Vic - ignore my previous post re Young to Villa - the cat's now out of the bag.
Boro agree £5m deal for Young - What?!?
On Sky Sports now (and no doubt here in an hour or two) that we're selling Young to Villa - £5m seems a poor return given his fantastic form. I can't believe GS wants to sell, so either it's from the player or our board needing the cash. He's 29 so theres a good few years left in him too. I can't think of a better replacement we could buy anywhere for £5m.
That's blown a big hole in my confidence about the forthcoming season, and a big hole in our back line too.
I'm sure all will be explained in todays Gazette article...
Also the darlington game starts to make sense as well.....all boro's youngsters playing in a pre season friendly of which most would never get a game all season in the premiership.....seems there was a reasoning behind it after all looks like by the end of the transfer window that will be the A team!
No need to wait for tonights gazette
Fee agreed and decision in Young's court now as per official MFC site.
This is bad news, but lets face it, Villa are a more attractive proposition - they can offer European football and we can't. Has Luke Young ever played in Europe before? I don't think so. I'm gutted though.
AV
It's a bit late doing the 'can't say until the paper publishes' since the Club website confirms the story as does the Sky site and doubtless Sky News as well as the Northern Echo.
I hope you will move the thread on the Luke Young topic to the top of the new Blog you'll doubtless be doing.
I fear that Never Happy's entirely understandable reaction will echo loudly round the vast majority of Boro fans.
This is a severe let down and is either a big dent in Gate's integrity or a revealing indication that he is, in effect, only a first team coach at MFC and not fully in charge of all team affairs which are actually in the hands of The Count and Gibbo.
Letting Luke Young go is a dreadful dreadful decision.
I'm furious.
I think the bookies have a good thing going for themselves with their PL mini-leagues. Outside of Manchelarsepool (nice one, Richard) and maybe the promoted teams, any side at all could find themselves in contention for a UEFA cup slot, come the end of the season. Those very same teams could also find themselves struggling to avoid the drop, down in group D.
If I knew what it is that makes the difference between those two scenarios I would be a truly great football manager. I suspect that management itself plays a big part, of course, but that doesn't explain how Citeh's great start to the season ended in ignominy, for example, or how Chelsea have maintained their place in the top four.
Name any team in any of their mini-leagues and the bookies will be chuckling as they lay them to move up a division to half their punters and down a division to the rest. It's not something I would want to bet on at all. I much prefer to bet at match time, where I like to lay against the favourites and against whoever scores first in the match. Draws are very lucrative and I'm happy to report that the betting exchanges have been keeping the dreaded sobriety away from the door for the past two seasons.
i can't believe we would even consider selling Luke Young, one of our best players last season! i really can't understand this. i hope all this money isn't going towards Harper because he isn't worth it in my opinion.
oh no whats going on. is this the start of the exodus? no experience, 2 dodgy untried keepers, injuries and niggles and no money to spend so we are told. heard a rumour from a scouse mate that finnan is available from scousers.
oh no its going wrong.
COME ON BORO!!!!!!!
Top half is OOTQ without our most consistent defender (and most suitable captain) and our goalkeepng weaknesses.
It's ok having talent coming through but if we hit a bad spell, as we inevitably will at some point (hopefully this will not be early doors), the inexperience could tell and old heads will be needed to steady the ship. We don't have them anymore.
An unexpected and unwanted move in selling Young. The Boro site is now reporting a fee has been agreed. I find this to be an amazing piece of business - I simply can't fathom the reasoning. For all the McMahon showed a few seasons ago - he hasn't proven he can remain fit or that he is in the same league as Young.
Southgate wants to push on but is selling a quality player who increasingly proved his worth during last season to the point where he was in reality not far away from knocking on the door of an England call up. And now we are selling to Villa. It makes us look like a selling team - perhaps our finances are worse than known. This will do nothing to retain the likes of Stewy this season and Wheater next season when the big teams come knocking.
Hopefully Gate has some cunning plan which will be revealed - I hope so - but I doubt it. And just when I'd started thinking positively about Gate!!!
One final point - wasn't one of Gate's last comments to the press "we must stop leaking goals" - yeh this should help - and of course having the Corp in goal.
From optimistic (apart from keeping) I'm now feeling a little dejected.
Although i am devastated by this news...as it is a glaring error of judgement along with the goalkeeper situation.It is worth mentioning Huth played at right back with Chelsea so maybe this is a way to bfit allthe in form centre backs into the team moving riggot into the middle then you would have ....HUTH,WHEATER,RIGGOT,POGATEZ....just a thought....a desperate one at that!!!!
Oh, how I hope the Luke Young stories are without foundation. I have never read anything that even hints that he might be unhappy at Boro and I can't imagine that the club would be willing to part with him, unless he has put in a transfer request. If that is what has happened then it's regrettable but it's also typical of his professionalism that he gave us no clues.
I see that the Boro website confirms that a fee has been agreed. What a downer!
I was stunned to hear the Luke Young story on the radio this morning. If this has come about from anything other than the player's own ultimatum, then it is a terrible decision.
If Young is going then i reckon GS is going to play with 3 centrebacks and use 2 wingbacks as we have an abundence of wingers in Downing, Johnson, Emnes and possibly Aliadiare.
This is the attacking formation football we want them to play.
Let's not over-react here - I think this is simply a case of a club in a better position has come in for one of our unsettled players - nothing more sinister than that. I don't imagine there was a lot Gareth could do bar forcing an unhappy player to stay.
Thats it for me, good luck to Boro for the new season and goodbye to all the posters who have made this blog the enjoyable read that it is.
Taken from Boro's website on 2nd August.
Quote: Asked if there were any developments in the transfer market to report, Southgate said: "Nothing at present. We're still monitoring a couple of situations, we're not looking to lose players but looking to strengthen a little but more."
Well Uncle Eric tried his best to put the article in a positive light, (if Stewie goes is that set to be written up as a good thing due to all the profit we'd make?) but no word on whether he's jumping or was pushed.
A TERRIBLE decision to let him go on the part of GS if he had any say in the matter. I agree with JP that it's made even worse if it's to fund Harper. The love in after the Portugal trip seems to have ended! Significantly weakening the right back department to fund a move for another journeyman midfielder seems just plain daft, and without further explanation makes people question GS judgement.
We've got no choice but to see how (if?) the club decide to spend the money, but It would have to be an impressive buy with the £8.5 million they will shortly acquire to win over fans. (isn't that what Inter bid for Lampard?)
I think you're about to have a very long thread with a great deal of angry rants AV! You have any personal insight on the situation?
Tom Pringle's not the only one who's furious! Soutgate's clearly lost all his marbles! What on earth possessed him to sanction the transfer of such a reliable player to a bitter rival & thereby blow a hole the size of the Channel Tunnel in whas a reasonably competent defence? Eric Paylor's comment in the article that "The Gazette" understands that an experienced goalkeeper will be signed as a No 3 to provide cover is nothing but a sop compared with that bombshell!
Absolute JOKE,
totally disgusted at selling one of our best players,
THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, and we dont even have a decent goalie,
thanks gareth,nice bloke no sense
Cant believe we are selling Young. Or Bench maark may have changed if we dont find a replacement
I dont mind McMahon, but the guy is a bit of a porcelain doll, and hasnt had proper league experience for 2 seasons.
If he keeps McMahon in, we will have an inexperienced RB, an inexperienced goalkeeper, and I know he had an excellent season last year, but Wheater is still relatively inexperienced too. Plus Digard will be in front of them who has never played in the Premiership.
I was really optimistic about this season. Now i'm not so sure. But I shall be there August 16th whatever the outcome.
Surely (?) the only explanation is that Young insisted on leaving after Villa came in for him. If that is the case, then in my opinion, it is best to let him go.
I cannot imagine Southgate for one minute allowing him to leave if it wasn't Young's strong desire to join Villa.
If that story comes out in the next few days then I hope the fans don't blame the manager. It should be Young himself who is subject to our derision.
However if the story comes out that the club sold him "because we couldn't turn down that kind of offer" then we have a right to be severely peed off with MFC.
Youngy going sends out some real negative messages, I hope there is some rationale behind this move?
SO BORO ARE NOW WEAK IN THE GOALKEEPING AREA,
AND ARE WEAK IN THE FULL BACK AREA
AND ARE VERY WEAK IN THE MIDFIELD AREA
BUT WE ARE ROLD STRONG IN THE STRIKER AREA
SUBJECT TO ANY NEWS IN THE SECRET PIPELINE I CAN'T SEE WHERE THE NEW FOUND OPTIMISM IS COMING FROM AND IF LUKE YOUNG CAN BE TRANSFERRED SO CAN ANYONE ELSE
Turn the caps lock off and take a breath, John.
Paylor's Gazette article revealed nothing we don't already know. Vic should've wrote it and got under the skin of what went on.
boro should have bought a GK.will struggle this season to stay up.
boro dont need to buy a GK.we will not struggle to stay up this season .