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Untypical Boro is a lively topical blog by the Evening Gazette's award winning football columnist Anthony Vickers that aims to get behind the headlines to flesh out the stories that Boro fans are talking about.

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Black Day As Boat Sets Sail

Posted by on July 11, 2008 2:01 PM | 

THE EXIT of George Boateng is a massive, massive blow. General George is almost irreplaceable. True, his mono-paced on the pitch performances may have faded in recent years - but in front of a microphone he still oozes star quality.

The Gazette Sports posse will have a day of reflective mourning when the Boat finally sets sail for Hull, probably on Monday. The quoter-mouthed Dutch destroyer has been far and away the best interviewee at the club throughout his lively spell at the Riverside.

We call him "Five Intros" because a few minutes grabbed in the tunnel with George leaves you in a quandry as to which brilliant line to lead with and which incredible quote to back it up.

With Boateng there is no soul destroying sifting through your notes, desperately looking for a something among the cliches, the semi-literate syntax mangling spin and the begrudged admissions that "like you say it was a bit disappointing" that can be beaten and stretched and polished enough to make something worth reading. With Boateng it is a question of selecting the best of several excellent lines.

After the demolition of Man City I grabbed six minutes with him at pitchside - it would usually have been longer but his kids were in one of the boxes to watch his swansong and kept on shouting down for Daddy so he was distracted - and that briefest of chats produced half-a-dozen decent stories of real interest.

In that brief conversation he came out with a combination of honest emotions and financial reality about his own future, hints at the political intrigues behind the scenes over his status and his demand for respect, a joyful celebration of the 8-1 victory that he said fans deserved because so many home displays had been terrible, a claim that he asked the ref to blow the whistle early to release City from their suffering, a sentimental and sincere review of his Boro years and the glory of Cardiff and Eindhoven and a glowing testimonial of the gaffer who he said could even be a future England manager.

Some players don't manage to cover that kind of quality or quantity of quotes in their entire career at a club. Some have said less of substance or colour in their autobiographies.

He has always been like that. Polite, friendly, articulate, prone to flourishes of Biblical imagery and rhetoric and from the Dutch dressing room culture that mixes disarming if sometimes damaging honesty with a tendency for unashamed self-promotion, he is a reporters dream.

He was readily quotable in the Gazette before he even arrived at Boro, saying he had no sympathy for Gazza after the Dunston Rocket broke his wrist on George's chin with an attempted forearm smash and then later telling Riverside-bound Gareth Southgate he would be foolish to join Boro because they were going nowhere while Aston Villa were a big ambitious club.

And his career at Boro has been punctuated with brilliant outbursts made with total disregard to internal politics or external sanction. For instance, he got an slap across the wrist from the FA after James Morrison had wiped out smug step-over prima donna Ronaldo and George almost revelled in it on his own web site and then warned darkly: "one day someone will hurt him properly."

He told Gareth not to take up the Boro manager's position when McClaren left saying he was inexperienced and probably not up to the job risking a backlash but then praised him for handing the right man the captain's armband and was soon tipping him for the England job.

As a committed Christian he feels it his moral duty to tell the truth (although we are all sinners so he can be forgiven the occasional lapse, like that time when he claimed little Nolberto Solano had decked him with a haymaker or had the spit spat with Nicky Barmby after he "insulted my brethren") and that frankness is refreshing in a duplicitous industry built on layers of deceit and riddled with self serving spin and a blatant disregard for what they fans think or what they deserve to know.

He was also quite emotional, expressing a despair or elation that echoed the crowd, bubbling hysterically with glee as he led the jubilant EIOing after the Carling Cup triumph or with optimism over Eindhoven, or sullen and stony faced after a defeat, searingly critical of himself, his team-mates and manager or dancing along the line of a disrepute charge by blasting the referee, which always makes for good copy.

Over the years, as access to players has been squeezed by the Sky Sports piper increasingly calling the tune in press conferences and with club's trying to control the flow of information through official sites and publications, it has been harder to build up a picture of players as individuals with real opinions and characters rather than tools in a marketing machine. So people like George, keen that supporters actually know how he thinks and feels, are a Godsend for us, and by extension, for you.

There have been other great speakers over the years of course. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink was prone to colourful sweeping statements about his own ability and vital contribution to Boro victories while Bolo Zenden (you may see a trend of orange gobbiness emerging here) was a witty, urbane polyglot - he is fluent in six languages - and was only too eager to talk. Most players are reluctant to do the press and have to be cajoled or bullied into the pressroom but a snap shot of Zenden's willingness came away at Egaleo when the assembled hacks having interviewed him told him the local Athens papers wanted to speak to him. "Me? Well, my Greek is a bit rusty but I'll give it a go," he said.

Of the current bunch the local lads are always willing to make their Mam's proud by appearing in the Gazette, Julio Arca and Luke Young will chat at length about pretty much anything and Emanuel Pogatetz is officially the nicest man in Europe and talks - quickly and passionately in a deceptively gentle voice, a strange Simpsons cross-match of Rainer Wolfcastle and Dredrick Tatum - within a glowing embracing aura of smiling friendly warmth that is totally at odds with his on field persona while Jeremie Aliadiere, with his hypnotic lilting French-Cockney gangsta patois is another regular volunteer, innit? But none of them are as guaranteed colourful page-fillers in the way George is. We'll miss him.

BOATENG'S exit is the end of an era. His departure -hot on the heels of Mark Schwarzer and Gaizka Mendieta - means there are no longer any players at the club that played at the Millenium Stadium when Boro won the Carling Cup.

Stewie Downing, Chris Riggott and Brad Jones were unused subs and Southgate has stepped up to the dugout but the organic link with the on-the-field heroes has been broken. How time flies. It is only back in February we celebrated the first calendar anniversary and there were three still on the books and two in the team.

Comments (111)

John Powls wrote...

A fond farewell to The Boat - 'he's indestructable' will have to ring round the KC now where I'm sure his qualities will be just what they need to give them a fighting chance of staying up.

Appreciate the eulogy, AV, and understand exactly why but, like Skippy, it was time.

Looks to me like young Dig 'Ard - once his grasp of English gets good enough - is shaping up to have the same forthright views as his predecessor.

Great new that Gary O'Neil is staying.

Continuing poor news about the goalie situation. After the latest interview does Adam Steel share your view that it's all an elaborate Gate ruse and he's actually going to buy somebody?

We're at the stage now where it would require a rewrite of history of 'Bobby Ewing emerges from the shower and Pammy dreamed it all' proportions (apologies to our younger readers) for him to leap out of the corner he's painted himself into.

In amongst the ill advised goo about challenging for the Champions League there were a couple of interesting snippets from Gate's latest interview.

One about Huth - in addition to the 'like a new signing bit' he seemed to be indicating that he was going to have to go on a Woody type regime of 'protective training' to keep him available for games. Not good news on the injury for such a young man.

Then there was Grant Downie who, having been eased sideways by the new Nuttall regime, is now going to go on his travels to see how 'other organisations work'.

I'm all for this sort of activity - any sort of sane business needs its key staff to be up to speed with what the best are doing. But football clubs rarely do this - it's usually reserved for the out of work coaches and managers grabbing favours off their mates.

Is it retraining or an outplacement scheme?

Lastly, if the rumour is true that the Biscuit Men want £4.5m for Harper they should be told what they can do.

He's OK-ish but that's about the best of it and they are a Championship club. There are better alternatives for that sort of money or thereabouts.

Thanks but no thanks.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 11, 2008 5:14 PM

Richard wrote...

He wasn't too bad a footballer either, AV!

Everyone's time comes round. But George is one I'll be sorry to see leave. Perhaps not quite Boro legendary status material (other than as a member of the playing squad that won the Carling Cup and reached the UEFA Cup Final) and perhaps not quite "indestructible", but a full whole-hearted, honest contributor to the club and the cause.

I felt that, ironically, he played some of his best football for Boro in the latter half of last season. Perhaps not so surprising though, as it seems often to be the case with players who are approaching the end of contract and are seeking to impress somebody!

Nevertheless, I'm sure most Boro supporters will view George's departure with feelings, on balance, that he was a good 'un.

I personally wish him well, but, like Viduka, Woodgate, Yakubu and others, NOT when he returns to the Riverside with his new club!

**AV writes: He was a good footballer and I think one of the best ever for Boro (I think the stats showed that and for a few seasons he was the first name on the team sheet) but sadly under-appreciated because of the gritty nature of the job he did.

Posted by: Richard  | July 11, 2008 7:48 PM

keith wrote...

Its true George will be missed he has been a great signing for the club but he no longer has the legs to fit in with Gareths vision of free flowing pacey football.

It would have been nice to keep him as a squad player if only for his experience but then he deserves better than that. No doubt he will do an excellent job for Hull who will find his experience invaluable. We wish him all the best.

Posted by: keith  | July 11, 2008 7:50 PM

stockton red wrote...

George has been a great servant to the club and I have no doubt he will get a cracking reception on his return.

On the subject of turnover of players- if Riggott does not start then only Stewy is left from the UEFA Cup final team. Bearing in mind that game was two years ago that is a big turnaround. When we kick off it will be Gareth's team and he will be judged on it.

On the goalkeeping front it is clear that Turnbull and Jones are going to be given a chance pre-season. I would be astonished if Gareth was not aware of the widespread supporter concern over his decision. If one off them starts making him a bit twitchy I would suspect we might bring somebody in on loan near the deadline but not before.

Posted by: stockton red  | July 11, 2008 8:40 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Goodbye, George. Some leave a bad taste in the mouth, but you will be one who is missed for your contribution both on and off the field. A REAL legend....say hello in training to Dean Windass for us.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 11, 2008 8:51 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Good luck to George, I really do wish him well at Hull or wherever.

Truth is he had probably reached the stage where it was right for him to move. A great servant and will always be remembered as cup winner and the ultimate trier.

We should tuck away the fact he had held out for contract improvements in the past unless he criticises the Boro post move. I mention it hopefully to be insulted by Boat fans and to eat humble pie - I like Boat and the contribution he has made to the club.

We should also remember his scud missile approach to passing but if he comes back and gives a retro Boat performance for Hull I wont regret his leaving only applaud him. But that depends on no insults.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 11, 2008 10:00 PM

Richard wrote...

Nice twist on George Boateng's departure, by the way. A different perspective to the usual "football hero" eulogy. I guess you left that up to us!

**AV writes: On the other issue, we have our top geeks hard at work at resolving a few bugs in our new software, as soon as they finish their game of on-line Halo. The last few days have been a bit frustrating but we are gradually getting there. The new system will allow us to expand into a few new areas of cyberspace next season.

Posted by: Richard  | July 11, 2008 11:33 PM

Neil (USA) wrote...

I remember when George played for Villa, and Gazza elbowed him, breaking his arm in the process. I was thrilled when he signed for us, and I think he's been a good servant to the club.

I like the way the he left. Southgate ws honest about not being able to guarentee him a game, and George has gone elsewhere. Fair play to him and good luck, too...just not when he plays the Boro :)

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | July 12, 2008 2:41 AM

Neil (Yarm) wrote...

Goodbye George and thank you. A stalwart amongst men who think they're 'ard enuff till they meet "The Boat". I hope I get chance to meet him on Yarm High Street and shake his hand before he departs for good.

But we must move onwards, and hopefully upwards under Southgates tenure. As stockton-red says, this is truly his team now, and for the first time since Eindhoven I'm mildy excited about the coming season (lack of new goalie and a left back apart)

Great news on O'Neill, Mido and Huth together with some good young signings, and if The Count is true to his word, there's at least one more to come.

Posted by: Neil (Yarm)  | July 12, 2008 3:46 AM

Boro WestOz wrote...

All the Best George.
Thanks for the memories.

Posted by: Boro WestOz  | July 12, 2008 6:30 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

George's willingness to speak his mind shows that he is a man of believe and confidence in his own ability. This may well be related to being educated in multilingual Holland as your JFH and Zenden examples have added to the theory.

Being able to interview a footballer who is able to articulate his thoughts without resorting to stringing together a series of football cliches can only be refreshing for journos and fans alike.

At least we still have Southgate who is good value and at least master of his native tongue. Thank god we don't have to listen to a bedtime story tones of Bryan 'Irons in the Fire' Robson or watch the car crash interviews of Steve 'Here's the spin I rehearsed earlier' McClaren anymore

Whilst it's always sad to see a top professional like Boateng go, it was definitely the right time for both parties and I wish him well at his new club (except if it's Sunderland of course)

However, I'm sure that Southgate will feel a little relieved to be free of Boateng's shadow - he's followed him around for most of his career and you get the impression that Boateng didn't really regard Gareth as the 'Gaffer'.

Still, Southgate will be looking for leaders on the pitch to emerge to fill the gap left by George - perhaps Pogi and Mido are likely to speak out and it's probably time for Downing to show his new maturity.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 12, 2008 10:24 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

On the subject of Blog glitches AV - I notice that if I try to post a comment directly after typing, it tends to fails.

So I usually make sure I copy the text before posting and then re-enter the site and paste in the text and re-post - which usually works first time.

So in my humble amateur techie opinion it sounds like a Timeout problem with posting mechanism on the Blog.

**AV writes: It sounds like a decent diagnosis and good advice to fellow posters over the next few days until we get everything working properly. I hate upgrades.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 12, 2008 10:30 AM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Vic - it's a generational thing, the compulsion to kill aliens (or even your colleagues) in on-line Halo, or any number of similar games. My son doesn't even bother to ask me to play any more. I'm glad really.

He is a fearless, cool-hand sniper with hand to eye co-ordination to die for who just KNOWS where you are going (before you know, yourself), whereas his prey blunders about and has to look at the controller to work out which button to press in order to shoot, to jump or re-load. By that time, of course, said prey finds himself in a bloody heap on the floor as yet another "Killing Spree" is announced. A realistic comparison would be Manchester United against your local Primary School.

Politely suggesting a quick look at the A-level text books might be a good idea is met with derision. If we are waiting for your IT johnnies, we might have to hold our breaths for a while...hang on, I'm just about to get to the next level, only one more kill!

Let's see if this post gets to its target. Maybe the secret is not to touch on the subject of football. Does one of your IT boys secretly hate the game?

**AV writes: No, I think they are all good at Pro Evo too.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 12, 2008 1:03 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

I would like to endorse the positive sentiments shown towards George.

In my opinion he was consistently our best player during the second half of the season, following his return to form with that awesome performance against Liverpool at the Riverside.

Apart from the dodgy spell that he went through early season, the team could always rely on George Boateng to deliver a minimum of 7 out 10, more so 8 or 9 out of 10 every time he pulled on a Boro shirt. There aren't many football players around, past or present, who deliver to that level every week. That's why he was the first name on the teamsheet for most of his career.

Whilst I would have liked to see George stay, playing in a more deeper role to save his legs, we have to recognise that Digard is not here to warm the bench, and his presence would severely restrict George's opportunities.

Good luck to the man. He is a credit to his profession.

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | July 12, 2008 2:18 PM

smoggypaul wrote...

I'm staggered! That's two AV blogs on the bounce that I've now read and [apart from being intelligent and witty as always!] they are almost universally positive about the current state of the club, and optimistic about our prospects for the season.......what IS going on?

It really is uplifting - I hope it remains so and our optimism is founded in reality. I too think gate is playing a cute game re the 'keeper situation. Notice Spurs have tons of players up for sale/available yet no-one is rushing to buy.......funny feeling that as the window winds down a certain Mr Robinson will end up at t'Riverside on OUR terms!!!

Keep up the positive vibes - it's not even the August silly season yet!!

Posted by: smoggypaul  | July 12, 2008 3:17 PM

Neil M wrote...

George Boateng - Boro legend!

For the first couple of years he was here he was awesome and the first name on the team sheet.

He had vision, passion, stamina and was fearless in the tackle, a great midfield 'destroyer'. If only he could pass a bit better and had an extra yard of pace he would have been a true international legend (but probably not at Boro!)

We sing 'indestructable' but the last few years he has been a bit injury prone with his broken toe, dodgy knee and limping out off the Riverside every game. We have seen the best of him now and it is probably time to go.

Posted by: Neil M  | July 12, 2008 11:08 PM

Holgate Ender wrote...

Why the love in? He is past it, has been for two years, and has cost us dear with a lot of mistakes, mistimed tackles giving away free-kicks in dangerous areas and spooned passes straight to the opposition. He needs to go if we want to move on.

Plus he thinks he can call the shots and decide whether he plays or not. He says he won't stay as a squad player and you call it honesty and good interviews but I call it mouthing off.

The writing was on the wall when Southgate dropped him and took the armband off him. Best he goes now and we get a few bob rather than start being "honest" and rocking the boat (!) in the press next year when he's on the bench.

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | July 12, 2008 11:15 PM

ian Gill wrote...

And now for something completely different.

Watched a bit of Premierships years on Skysports this morning and saw something quite incredible. It was Gary O'Neill scoring a goal. Admittedly it was several years ago and for Pompey but it was a goal.

Posted by: ian Gill  | July 13, 2008 9:54 AM

tim from sa wrote...

Its time for George and best of luck to him.

An improvement is a player with same commitment and better distribution.

Getting back to the market i think £3.5m for Catts is good business as Harper was coming if Catts left or not which should mean we have £6m in the kitty.
Either get the playmaker we need or buy Harper and a KEEPER

Posted by: tim from sa  | July 13, 2008 11:06 AM

Richard wrote...

Holgate Ender:
Your style ought to go down well in the corridors of Canary Wharf.

Are you a graduate of the Piers Morgan school of diplomatic journalism? - where one was seemingly expected to call a spade a "bleeping" shovel and positive contribution is studiously ignored and sacrificed on the altar of "Factual Reporting"!

I don't disagree with your content, by the way. But there is a degree of imbalance in it when you consider George's Boro career overall.

It would, of course, be a much duller world without different points of view. (He said magnanimously through tightly clenched teeth!)

Posted by: Richard  | July 13, 2008 12:40 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Firstly, thank you, well done and all the very best for having always tried to and given your very best.

A model pro, a nice man by all accounts who always had a great big smile on his face and brought an air of joy and positivity to the dressing room and training ground. An inspirational figure whose never say die attitude will be sorely missed.

Never seen out drunk in the pubs and clubs and never brought the club or town into disrepute. What more do people want ?

Secondly, this attitude that people at the age of 32 etc are passed it whereby their legs have gone is a joke.

Holgate ender makes a valid point and puts it well, even though I don't agree with all of it but those who say bin him because of his age need shooting.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | July 13, 2008 1:05 PM

Vlase wrote...

George Boateng in my opinion has never been more than an average defensive midfielder, when you compare him with the likes of others who have played in the same position - whilst his defensive qualities were quite good, his ability to distribute the ball at times was horrendous.

However what George does possess that is scarce amongst more skillful players is - heart and his passion for the club. George will be missed, but not entirely because of his footballing ability.

Posted by: Vlase  | July 13, 2008 1:12 PM

John Powls wrote...

Why, whenever we can all get reasonably close to an outbreak of reasonable positivity, does Gate have to come up with a return to the same old drivel.

We had the 'aiming for the Champions League' stuff the other day.

Now we've got the English weather statements - every possible variation in the same day; 'don't want to spend mega-money'; 'happy with what we've got'; 'might take time and may be one out one in' (does that start with The Boat or after?).

If you rank that against - 'Champs league' (again); 'the clubs at the top with new owners and big money we don't have'; 'still pursuing Harper' (far too much money that we don't have for a very average player) and 'keeping Stewie happy and here depends on demonstrating ambition with who we buy' - then it just doesn't add up.

I'd prefer less talk of this sort and a return to the effective action in the transfer market that we saw a week ago.

Getting the sort of midfield schemer we need and a good goalie would be exactly what we want to hear.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 13, 2008 5:36 PM

Mainy wrote...

Vlase, Boat was above average in his role, at times yes his distribution was terrible however that was usually when the team were playing bad as a whole.

Boat was great at breaking up the play and playing easy balls (it was when he looked for a more difficult ball to play that he sometimes struggled).

I believe he will be missed but not so much on the pitch anymore. He was a great player for us and I thank him for that as he was always committed once he crossed that white line.

I wish him luck at where ever he goes and will applaude him on his return.

On a different note, if he does go then that frees up the number 7 shirt along with the 10 & 1 shirts. Will Downing step up for the number 7? And with the number 1 shirt free, it'll give a big clue over the keeper situation as if one of Jones or Turnbull get it then you know he is more or less going to start. If neither of them get it then I think that will send out the signs that we are still looking for a new keeper.

Posted by: Mainy  | July 13, 2008 5:43 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Tim from SA

Have I missed something? Cat for £3.5million. Not seen or heard anything about cat leaving.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 13, 2008 5:47 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

A touching bit of writing AV, glad you shared it with us and it truly is end of a great era. Many people's[ fans] expectation demanded more but I am proud of the last ten years . Staying in the prem alone is a tough job if injuries go against you when you cant compete financially with the big boys.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | July 13, 2008 6:32 PM

John Powls wrote...

Ian

The only recent rumours I've heard about Catts (there were some earlier in the Summer) link him with Mogga at The Baggies.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 14, 2008 8:00 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

Ian and John

I heard that The Mirror had reported that Wigan had made a £3.5m bid for Cattemole.

A general problem for the current crop of academy graduates that they aren't really getting a run in the team - Even Taylor's and Johnson's progress is dependent on getting back into the team.

With Cattemole, it's whether he can mature his overall game and channel his agression or has he reached the limit of his ability - perhaps a season-long loan to a Premiership club may be the best option at this stage.

**AV writes: The club have said this morning that there have been no bids for Cattermole.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 14, 2008 9:17 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Werdermouth:

Academy constipation is a classic sympton when clubs have a golden generation.

ManU had the Giggs, Becks, Nevilles, Scholes etc come through and it blocked progress for many years. They had to let many good players go who went on to have good careers.

That is probably why Gate is saying one out one in. Just look at what we have.
Midfield - Downing, Jinky, O'Neill, Shawky, Arca, Cat, Digard, Emnes plus prospects coming through such as Porrit, Goulon, Walker etc. Attack - Mido, Alves, Tuncay, Aliadiere plus prospects like Craddock.

How on Earth can Gate keep them happy? Where is Harper going to fit in all this? We dont need another worker bee. If what we have cant do it I cant see how Harper would change things. I have said it many times good players wont want appearnces limited to a wet Wednesday night in January at Scarborough in the North Riding Senior cup or at Synthonia against Sunderland reserves.

Meanwhile we are going to rely on Corporal Jones at the back.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 14, 2008 10:10 AM

nigel wrote...

The Boat moving on sends a strong signal that this is the start of a new era at Boro, his departure is symbolic of GS finally completing the imposition of his will on the club. I think this can only be a good thing. It is not a healthy position for clubs to feel some sort of obligation to having to play certain players irrespective of form.

That said The Boat has been a superb player for us, it is not so long ago that the stats. were showing that if he didn't play Boro didn't win. He was at his peak a collosal player, the foundation stone of the team. However it is the right time for a parting of the ways.

I believe he is or will become a Boro legend, he played in the Carling cup final and the UEFA cup final, I'm not sure what more is required for a Boro player to become 'legendary'.

As others have posted this is an exciting time for Boro, there is an air of anticipation and optimism in the air which hasn't been there for a long time. We have a squad of young, dynamic, talented players, what GS has to do now is mould them into a succesful team....oh and buy a new keeper!!

Posted by: nigel  | July 14, 2008 10:55 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

Ian

I agree with much of what you say, especially on the Harper issue - now that O'Neil has 'committed' to staying I just can't see the point in signing him, especially as the price quoted is close to that of Sidwell.

Also, it seems that only Downing and Wheater will command a place on the team sheet - plus Now that Pogi is captain, Taylor will only get the nod at left back if Huth or Wheater don't play.

In theory, Goulon and Porritt should be breaking through soon but they are unlikey to find a postion in the team unless we have a bad run of injuries.

In General, given the new signings and potential formation we start with, I'm wondering when Tuncay, Ali, Mido, Johnson and Shawky will make the starting line-up.

Still at least Gareth is committed to giving youth a chance in one vital position - but unfortunately it's not out of choice - perhaps we'll end up with Carson.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 14, 2008 11:17 AM

tim from sa wrote...

Yep thanks AV see theres been no offers for Catts but it was well recorded in papers last week.
I would agree that some of our joung guns should go out on loan it definatly worked for Downing and Wheater.

Posted by: tim from sa  | July 14, 2008 11:51 AM

John Powls wrote...

Ian

Agree absolutely with your analysis on where we are and what's needed.

Harper's not it, as things stand, and certainly not at the price Reading seem to want to pay off the add-ons to Arsenal.

Once the merry go round has stopped at Liverpool and we have put any further thoughts out of their heads about nicking Stewie, Benayoun may find himself out on a limb there.

He would give us something we haven't got at a price that shouldn't exceed what we can afford.

On the one in one out front - and bearing in mind we have three (going on four with Porrit) left sided midfielders then Arca could be let go.

And I offer up again my daily missive to the transfer gods for a good goalie!

Posted by: John Powls  | July 14, 2008 12:07 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Farewell and good luck to the Boat. He was a brilliant Ambassador for the club both on and off the pitch.

Whilst perhaps not the most technically gifted he was always desperately missed when injured and it would be interesting to see some stats on how many points we picked up without him in the side versus with him in the side (any anoraks out there?).

A true Gentleman who wasn't afraid to put his foot in where it hurt and sadly but on a positive note we now have other midfielders competing for places who are of an equal if not better level of ability. Age catches up with all of us and a 28 year old George would without doubt be the 1st name on the team sheet.

I wish him all the best and look forward to giving him a rousing standing ovation when he returns to the Riverside in appreciation of his 100% effort in each and every game for us.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | July 14, 2008 1:41 PM

Richard wrote...

John & Ian,

I agree that midfield numbers aren't much of an issue at Boro currently. However, it's important to look at the the balance of attributes of those midfield players we do have.

I still think we're light on true playmaking capability - (please excuse the "hyphenetics" that follow)- "Beckhamesque" qualities that split defenses with angled through-balls into channels and pin-point cross-field, over-the-defense balls that stretch/turn defenses and spread the play. That's a different skill set from the tough-tackling, attack-stopping, cross-field work-horse.

Intelligent, game-reading, position-aware, hard-running, great-touch, attack-minded midfielders who can also contribute a few goals a season and can set up plays for their colleagues are hard to come by. Boro are a bit light in that particular department. (Rocky was, I believe, supposed to fill that role but wasn't as effective during his time here as perhaps we might have hoped. There were signs latterly of the potential that was there, but I don't think we consistently saw the best he had to offer in that sense.)

George's departure perhaps gives us the opportunity to address this matter. But until that happens, I'd be reluctant just yet to dispense with Arca's services. Although he worries me with his too many touches sometimes and being increasing prone to being dispossessed in the wrong places, he's the only central midfielder we've got with some of the creative qualities and ball-touch required to be consistently effective in such a role.

Not that it would make any difference, because Gareth's already committed to him, but I'd hesitate before shouting for Arca's exit.

Posted by: Richard  | July 14, 2008 2:03 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Just noticed the article on the Northern Echo website talking about Wigans interest in Cat for £3.5 million so well done Tim from SA.

That would buy two thirds of Harper, not certain that is good business.

From Cats point of view a move away could be the making of him, as he is a local lad I would favour a long term loan to let him develop outside the goldfish bowl.

Interestingly I was sat at lunch with a Baggies fan who reckons Morrison was the best buy they have made for years and a real steal at the money. We have now spent £9 million to replace the £1.5 million we sold him for. I dont think he was given a fair crack at the Boro.

Meanwhile Corporal Jones is running about Rockcliffe shouting dont panic every time a ball comes into the box. And that is just with the goalkeeping coach knocking balls in, tomorrow they will try it with players on the pitch.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 14, 2008 2:15 PM

John Powls wrote...

According to various websites Stoke - of all people - are favourites to sign Carson and for a price that's a comparative snip for a young, English, Prem experienced, full England international goalie.

Come on The Count! And if not him that surely sets the benchmark for the going rate for such a custodian as time drives Spurs, for example.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 14, 2008 2:29 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

I think people may be misunderstanding where Harper plays. He would be the more forward-playing of the midfield two, and the only competition for that role currently is Arca (unless Gareth is considering playing Tuncay or Emnes in central midfield - or switching O'Neil from the right)

At the moment we have Digard, Shawky and Cattermole available for the defensive role - which does suggest that Cattermole could be surplus to requirements.

So, Harper (or someone like him) is very much needed.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 14, 2008 2:35 PM

Mitch From Sydney. wrote...

George Boateng is probably the most frustrating footballer I have ever watched in my life. I think if there ever was a player who summed up Middlesbrough's form over the last 6 years, it was George Boateng.

In the space of 90 minutes, he could be brilliant, awful, clever, strong, stupid, fast and slow... all in the same game. He could practically win the game for you one second, and then the next he would be giving it away. You never knew what you were going to get with George, but he had Boro in his heart and that is why he will always be a fans favorite.

I still don't really know what to make of him as a footballer, It would be great if someone had a flick through the archives and had a look and the Highs and Lows of the games that George has played for us. He had some screamers, and a few shockers as well.

Best of luck Boat. You'll always be a typical Middlesbrough Player.

Posted by: Mitch From Sydney.  | July 14, 2008 2:42 PM

GeoffC wrote...

I see Stoke have agreed a £3.5m fee with Liverpool for Scott Carson, can't help but feel we,ve missed a trick here.

Posted by: GeoffC  | July 14, 2008 3:00 PM

davidt wrote...

Just heard that Scott Carson is on the way to Stoke for £3.5 mil.Despite the decent business so far by Gate etc, I can't help think that this may come back to haunt him. Fantatic business & timing by Pulis though.

Posted by: davidt  | July 14, 2008 3:32 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

John and I have been bleating on about a creative midfield player for some time and that is why Harper isn't what we need.

People have talked about putting Tuncay in that role but that wont suit his style. He is not an incisive passer but more the sort who plays give and goes, turning defenders and playing off flicks.

The problems with Arca is why John coined the phrase Tippy Tappy twins for him and Rocky. Or you could also use the Chuckle brothers - me to you, you to me, me to them!

Do you think Wenger would swap Fabregas for Corporal Jones?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 14, 2008 3:55 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

I can't believe Boro are still sitting on their hands and hoping for the best with the goalkeeping situation.

Meanwhile, Liverpool have agreed a fee of £3.5m with Stoke for Scott Carson and Blackburn are likely to snap up Robinson for around £4m.

All the previews of summer signings in the the press have widely praised Southgate for getting his deals done early and having obtained cover in every position - but they all point to the blinding weakness of our goalkeeping position.

Is everybody missing something? it just doesn't make sense given the fees now being agreed for these premiership quality keepers.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 14, 2008 3:59 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

We have gone over this ground before, but what the heck.....

The goalkeeper is the most important player on the field. With a weak goalie who leaks goals, even with Ronaldo and Torres up front, you would struggle. You start all games with a point, and if you do not concede a goal, you must end up with at least that point. Goalies save points for teams who may have been under the cosh for most of the 90 minutes. A poor goalkeeper can throw all three points away.

Brian Clough started his teams with a goalie, then moved up through the spine with a centrehalf, midfielder and centre forward as the basis of a good team. It isn't rocket science, but it starts with the goalie.

If Carson goes for £3.5M and Robinson for £4M, which are amounts we CAN afford, then Gareth had better turn out to be justified in his faith in Jones and Turnbull. If those two have a bad start to the season, and we lose games we should save or be winning because the defence is demoralised, we will be in a very difficult position until the January transfer window.

By that time it may be too late and, even if we then decided to cut our losses and after all to go for a goalie, would he want to come to a club apparently facing relegation? All for the sake of £4M when, by all accounts, Yorkshireman Robinson would be happy to come to Teesside.

Both of these players are recent England players. I have no doubt in a few years Carson will be England keeper for a long stint. Robinson will probably play for England again, though in his case he has admittedly suffered a dodgy spell and needs his confidence restoring.

A decent goalkeeper will pay back his transfer fee many times over. How much did Skippy cost? How many years did he stay at the club? Anyone good at maths here, who can work out how much a year this works out at? There are no other young England players (apart from goalies) out there who would cost anything so little as 3 or £4M, most of them would cost multiples of those fees, and virtually none who could conceivably stay a decade at the club.

Maybe we are all wrong. I hope so. I hope Turnbull turns out to be an outstanding keeper when he gets an extended chance between the sticks. One in whom the defence immediately build up a relationship of confidence, and who we can be sure will be good enough to hold his own against top opposition, over many years.

That would be marvellous, and I would be happy to say "Well done, Gareth! You were right. You knew more about the young lad than we did, and we should not have doubted you."

However, if he thought so highly of Turnbull (for one) why didn't he play him in the Man City game at the end of last season when it was clear Skippy was on his way and nothing rested on the result? What was the point of giving Schwarzer the shirt for that game?

I hope Gareth proves to be right if we go ahead with Jones and Turnbull because if he is wrong, the price to be paid may dwarf the £3 or £4M we are talking about. I could understand it if we needed Ronaldo and the club baulked at the £75M Barcelona are said to be offering for him. We can't complete with that. But 3 or £4M and for a player in THE pivotal position? Come on.......

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 14, 2008 5:58 PM

Mike wrote...

Find it hard to believe that GS would go into the new season with two inexperienced keepers, there has to be an addition, surely?

Look at the Chelsea situation a season or two ago, Cech and Cudicini both injured, 3rd choice Hilario had to cover. We don't even have a third keeper. Chances are slim that two keepers get injured at the same time but it is possible and where would that leave us?

Can't for the life of me understand why we haven't gone in for Carson if the transfer fee being bandied around is correct. Forget Harper, £3.5M saved and include the £1M for George plus his big wages saved as well, where is the problem? With the inflated prices of today, £4M is a snip for an England international keeper. We need a keeper!

Posted by: Mike  | July 14, 2008 7:12 PM

Richard wrote...

You know guys, this goalkeeper situation makes me wonder if the club's preoccupation with (local) youth isn't actually now getting close to obsession.

As has been said before here, £3.5M for Scott Carson - not exactly geriatric himself - is, on the face of it, for ANY club, a piece of decent business. But for Boro, in our present proven keeperless situation, more than quite sensible, on the face of it!

So why not?

The coaches MUST surely know something about Jones and Turnbull that we haven't yet seen, surely? They know just as we do, the consequences of getting it wrong. So, either these guys do great stuff in training that we haven't witnessed yet in an "angry" match, or this youth policy has gone one step too far.

Or maybe Steve Gibson's pledge of MFC money to the Temenos Middlehaven Artwork Project is considered a better investment of fans funds?

Posted by: Richard  | July 15, 2008 12:16 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

In the panic to replace Jones/Turnbull, I think a lot of people are vastly over-rating Carson and Robinson.

Robinson's confidence is shot to pieces and I don't see why we should be the place where he attempts to rediscover it.

As for Carson, a Villa fan on another messageboard I frequent described £4m for him as '£6m too much'.

Being an England keeper isn't that impressive these days - play in the premiership and you almost qualify by default.

I'll keep saying it - I'm in the minority that thinks Gareth is right to give these two a chance - and I can't wait to hear you all tell me I was right all along!

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 15, 2008 9:58 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

Rumours on rumours - The Telegraph has reported today in it's transfer gossip section that The Mirror has said that Southgate aims to Hijack the Scott Carson transfer for £4m.

So hopefully we can all relax now as that sounds like a done deal in the making...

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 15, 2008 10:07 AM

Nigel wrote...

Richard - perhaps the Temnos is going to be built across the 'home' goal?

Boro's goalkeeping position is without doubt the most intriguing issue of the summer, without it we would all be bored stiff by now! I also find it hard to believe that GS wouldn't be interested in Carson at £3.5m but then he obviously fell out of favour at Villa so maybe he's not quite the player he was thought to be. Then there is Robinson who is a good keeper, so there are some options available at reasonable money.

If GS isn't playing a clever game and is determined to stick with The Corporal and Turnbull then he really is putting his reputation on the line. It is the one single decision which could wreck our season and his managerial career, it seems an unnecessary risk to me.

The Harper debate is one which is confusing me, I have little or no knowledge of him, other than he scored eight goals in the Prem. last season(?) If that is so then he's an attacking midfield player isn't he? But then JP & Ian clearly feel strongly that he is another average holding player which we clearly don't need. All very confusing.

I would have thought the way forward in central midfield was O'Neil and Digard, with Ali/Emnes on the right and Downing on the left.

I'm sure we'll see one or two midfield players leave Boro before the season starts, Arca has to be a possibility to leave and Catts also.

Personally I think we have plenty of 'flair' players now so I'm not so sure we need an attacking midfield player but for certain we need a Goalie......please Gareth!!

Posted by: Nigel  | July 15, 2008 10:10 AM

John Powls wrote...

BoroPhil

Happy to. And you won't mind the opposite either, I'm sure.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 15, 2008 10:39 AM

Holgate Ender wrote...

If he starts with Jones in goal we will go down. We have not improved enough in other areas to make up for the panic that he will cause at the back.

I saw him twice last year. Against Northampton in the cup, we won but he still nearly chucked a few in then again at Sunderland and he was awful, cost us two goals and the game flapping at the ball with his eyes shut like a girl.

He is an OK shot-stopper but like Dracula on the crosses and scared to come out. He terrifies me but worst, he terrifies the rest of the defence. You can see the confusion spreading by the minute. It causes mistakes and that costs goals.

I don't know one person who thinks he is up to it. His only plus point in the last few years was that he united the crowd in thinking that Schwarz wasn't that bad after all. If he is so good why has no one tried to buy him?

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | July 15, 2008 11:13 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

BoroPhil

I'm not over-rating Carson or Robinson - I think they are decent proven premiership quality keepers and a price of around £4m is reasonable considering Sunderland paid £10m for Gordon.

What Boro are contemplating is starting the season with either Jones (3 premiership appearances) or Turnbull (5 premiership appearances).

Jones is now 26 and has yet to break through and the fact that Southgate hasn't automatically given him the jersey ahead of 23 year old Turnbull speaks volumes.

It's not a matter of been proved right or wrong, but it's more a matter of sensible management.

If £4m buys you an experienced premiership keeper then it makes sense to start the season with this option and have one of the other keepers as understudy.

Should the new keeper suffer a loss of form then you still have the option of using your understudy.

You've only risked the same amount of money that Boro would happily spend on someone like Harper - who would probably only make the bench anyway.

So for me it's all about risk management and avoiding a situation where we go a whole season with no Plan B and then end up paying a lot more for a new keeper than £4m.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 15, 2008 11:17 AM

Craig B wrote...

Hi lads, first post, don't bite...

Boro must get a new keeper. Look:

Southgate must know that Jones is useless. He was at the Sunderland game. He must know that this season is his team and his career and gambling that on a lad who plays wearing comedy foam hands and a blindfold is madness.

More important Gibson must know that Jones is useless. He sees the games. He's watched Boro for years and knows his stuff. If Southgate is risking his career Gibbo is risking his own money, lots of it, and he won't do that on the worst keeper since Kelham O Handless.

I can't believe that Southgate plans to start the most important season of his career with Jones as goalie and I don't believe Gibbo would let him do anyway.

Great blog BTW AV. I can't be doing with the cliquie bitching in other places.

**AV writes: Welcome aboard.

Posted by: Craig B  | July 15, 2008 11:50 AM

Richard wrote...

The more I think about it, the more my mind’s pre-occupation with the matter is dominated by two haunting images:

Brad Jones's two fumbles in the UEFA Cup Semi-Final that resulted in Steaua's two goals and, yes.............
Scott Carson's scissor-hands fumble in England's ill-fated match against Croatia.

Maybe these guys are brilliant as long as they're not playing under McClaren??!!

So, maybe Gareth's publicly-stated position is right and we're not really any better off with Carson than we will be with what, I hope, won't be two new additional four-letter swear-words in the Boro supporters' vocabulary......"Brad" and "Ross".

I guess those are the kind of decisions that can make or break a season and a manager - anywhere other than at Boro, under Steve Gibson's usually fair and laudibly patient chairmanship.

I genuinely think it's a tough call, but with plenty of downside.

If it goes alright, we'll all be saying how brilliant a call it was.

If it doesn't go as well as we all hope, we should try to remember what a tough call it was, not be over-critical, and stay behind the manager as he aims to put right whatever may go wrong.

I genuinely think that lining up the provisional "I told you so's" for later cashing-in merely serves to highlight the uncertainty.

However, this season's early prediction prize has to go to Holgate Ender who has unequivocally asserted that "If he starts with Jones in goal we will go down."

Better buy Carson then eh, HE-man?

Or not?

Posted by: Richard  | July 15, 2008 11:52 AM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

From today's "Times":

"Paul Robinson and Scott Carson close to getting careers back on track

Oliver Kay; Gary Jacob

Paul Robinson and Scott Carson, two England goalkeepers in need of a fresh start, can envision brighter futures after they moved closer to securing transfers yesterday. Liverpool have accepted offers of about £4 million for Carson from Stoke City and West Bromwich Albion, the newly-promoted Barclays Premier League clubs, and Blackburn Rovers were last night close to a deal to sign Robinson from Tottenham Hotspur if, as seems increasingly likely, Brad Friedel departs for Aston Villa.

Tottenham have offered Robinson as a makeweight in their proposed deal to sign David Bentley, the England winger, who is also the subject of an offer from Aston Villa, and, while that deal is contingent on a number of factors, the goalkeeper believes that the move could revive his international career. Tottenham will probably have to pay at least £10 million in addition to Robinson moving in the opposite direction.

Robinson’s options have become limited after possible buyers, such as Villa and Middlesbrough, looked elsewhere. Villa have agreed a fee for Brad Guzan and could also sign Friedel, his United States team-mate, and Middlesbrough have decided to give an opportunity to Ross Turnbull or Brad Jones.

Robinson has not played for his country since a costly mistake in defeat by Russia in a European Championship qualifying match in Moscow in October. He subsequently lost his first-team place at White Hart Lane and has not travelled with the team on their pre-season training camp in Spain this week. Juande Ramos, the head coach, has signed Heurelho Gomes, the Brazil goalkeeper, from PSV Eindhoven as a replacement.

Carson has suffered a similar downturn in fortune since a bad error in England’s 3-2 defeat by Croatia at Wembley in November. As his form dipped, Villa, who had him on a season-long loan from Liverpool, dropped their interest in a permanent deal, leaving Liverpool to consider other offers. Carson held talks with Stoke yesterday and is expected to meet Tony Mowbray, the West Brom manager, today."

And from the paper's blog:

"You Won't Ruin Your Career At Boro

Scott Carson has been linked with a move to newly promoted side, Stoke City. Will this move have an effect on his England career? Southgate needs to act now to save his career. The 22-year-old goalkeeper has spent the last few seasons on loan at Charlton and Aston Villa and is now keen on a permanent deal with another Premiership club. Carson has been in fine form in the last two seasons and was given a well deserved call-up to the England squad last November, but his debut against Croatia at Wembley turned out to be a nightmare for the Cumbrian lad.

I think Carson is a great goalkeeper and has the ability and temperament to make that England number one jersey his. I'm certain that if he does decide to go to Stoke he will be very busy between the sticks, as we all know that promoted sides tend to ship a lot of goals in their first season. I wonder if Carson realises that his England career might be in doubt if he goes to Stoke. Will Capello call upon a goalkeeper that is letting in goals or producing clean sheets?

Gareth Southgate may step in right at the last minute and hijack Stoke's transfer for Scott Carson. The goalkeeper might come to his senses and get himself up to Teesside and team up with a solid young defence. I'm sure David Wheater and Robert Huth would enjoy playing with Scott Carson in goal behind them.

Up The Boro

Stuart Young"

* As things stand at the moment, however, The Boat has sailed - & it would appear that Gareth's missed the boat on the goalkeeping front! *hopping mad*

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | July 15, 2008 11:53 AM

Peter Mclone wrote...

Going into the Premier League season with Turnbull and particularly Jones between the sticks is an unacceptable gamble according to every single Boro supporter I've discussed it with bar none.

A poor keeper can cost a side 10 points a season and without them last season Boro would currently be in the Championship. I'm praying that they both have a nightmare in the frendlies so Southgate is forced to sign an experienced replacement for one of them. Robinson would love to return to Yorkshire and Carson is a snip at £3.5m. Come on Boro you know its makes sense get one of them right now for goodness sake.

Posted by: Peter Mclone  | July 15, 2008 12:45 PM

Sikhar Abbrevia Shons wrote...

I agree with Gate that we dont need need another keeper as Jo and Turn are both going to be top notch keepers.

Posted by: Sikhar Abbrevia Shons  | July 15, 2008 12:54 PM

jiffy wrote...

As regards the goalkeeping situation:

both Niemi and Friedel look to be out of favour at their respective clubs due to recent or prospective arrivals. Either would do the job for us whilst we still try to develop Turnbull and Steele - I have already written off Jones - and either would bring plenty of experience behind a relatively inexperienced back four. Neither should cost a great deal and both would see Boro as somewhere they would expect to be first choice.

Posted by: jiffy  | July 15, 2008 1:37 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Well done for nailing your goalie colours to the mast in today's Gazette article.

Being sensible and right may not improve your reputation in some parts of MFC but you're still sensible and right.

Nigel - whatever hue of midfielder Harper may be characterised as he's no better than yer average journeyman and a good honest pro.

He tries and gets up and down but is not noted as a passer who can unlock a Prem defence. And that's on the estimation of the Royals fans where I live.

How is that going to improve us?

At £5.5m - the alleged asking price because of sell on adds wanted by Arsenal - this can't be anyone's idea of good business.

At the risk of re-opening an old wound on here that's the same or more than Villa just paid for Sidwell who the locals here rate much more highly, though he's not Mr. Popular. Mind you, Harper is quickly assuming the same mantle as he and others agitate to be away from a team that the Royals fans hold them responsible for getting relegated.

If we've got that sort of money to spend on a creative midfielder there are better around is all I'm saying.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 15, 2008 1:50 PM

Richard wrote...

Me too SAS!! (Geddit?) - Very good!
But I'm less sure about the goalkeeper situation!

Posted by: Richard  | July 15, 2008 1:52 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Nigel

I have nothing against Harper, I have seen him a few times because it said so in the programme and on TV but that says it all. He did not make me sit up and think how he could improve our team. JP living in Reading has a better grasp of his capabilities.

I am sure he is a good solid pro but if we have £4-5 million to spend there are more pressing needs to address. The fact we are not part of a queue fighting to sign him speaks volumes.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 15, 2008 2:56 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

I asked for some comments about James Harper on another forum:

'A box-to-box CM with stamina to burn'

'His tacking isn't brilliant, definitely not a holding midfielder'

'i've always though of him as a poor mans jermaine jenas'

'Attacking midfield isn't he? pretty sure he appear in the other team's area more often than his'

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 15, 2008 3:23 PM

Nigel wrote...

JP - I'm inclined to agree with you I can't see that Harper would improve the team and would only be a useful squad addition if we are going to lose someone such as Cattermole, but then where is the sense in sellin Catts for less than Harper would cost. The whole Harper scenario is a mystery to me.

Following AV's Gazette article and lets face it, someone at Boro must monitor the message boards and blogs, GS will be fully aware on the fans overwhelming consensus on the goalie situation, and so of course will The Corpral and Turnbull. They will need to be seriously tough mentally to weather the storm and succeed as the no.1.

I hope that its all a GS 'game' but I'm not convinced. I don't ever recall a single issue over which the Boro fan base has been so united, and collectively we must know something about football? Clearly we need a new goalie.

Posted by: Nigel  | July 15, 2008 4:09 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

AV

Very Slavenesque in your comments about the custodians of the onion bag.
Methinks you may be struck off Lambies Christmas card list and I certainly would be wary of any free food or beverages coming your way - 'polonium with your poison burger Mr Vickers?'

The problem is you are summing up a sticky situation very precisely. I know we have had this debate before but Messrs Turnbull and Jones will read the papers, Gate has painted himself into a corner. The 'move for someone who has just become available' scenario doesnt wash because there have been good keepers available for a couple of months and we all know that party line is hogwash.

Gate is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt move for a keeper. Very poorly thought through.

Let us hope that Corporal or Turnbull come good then we will have been worrying for nothing. Past performance is not necessarily a guide for the future but it sure does give some hefty clues.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 15, 2008 4:41 PM

Richard wrote...

Does anyone know if James Harper was on Gareth's shopping list in case Gary O'Neil left over the Summer - given Rocky's departure and with George looking for hard-to-grant playtime guarantees? If he's not a "flair" player who'll add a new midfield dimension to the squad, why else would he be on Gareth's list? So.....

With Gary O'Neil now settling in for the longer haul and Digard arriving, perhaps Gareth's re-prioritising.

Tony Pulis's Sky interview after Carson's visit to Stoke, didn't sound particularly positive vis s vis Carson's commitment to them. So perhaps Carson may next appear for a chat and a look round at Hurworth?

The reported interest is Stoke, WBA and Boro. If we want him, surely we'd be in with a good shout?

Posted by: Richard  | July 15, 2008 9:21 PM

malc wrote...

Good luck, george. I was delighted when you signed and you never let us down.

I don't like this harper character. Let's buy Robinson (or carson) as I said six months ago and we're set for a top ten season.

Posted by: malc  | July 16, 2008 2:06 AM

Neil (Yarm) wrote...

Getting back to the blogs original thread, i.e. The Boat Sailing:

Hull's boss Brown (as reported in The Gazette) says he can't offer the former Boro skipper a guaranteed first team slot at Hull but is looking forward to adding him to his squad as the newly-promoted club prepares for a first ever top flight campaign.

“No-one guarantees you first-team football. The only thing that can guarantee you that is playing well week in, week out - and that is what I fully expect from George, but he has to get past the players already in the team.�

Isn't that what Southgate was saying?

Funny old game.

Posted by: Neil (Yarm)  | July 16, 2008 2:50 AM

Ken wrote...

What would make sense for me is for Southgate to sign an old keeper in the last year of his career, as an insurance policy.

That would still allow Jones and Turnbull to compete for the starting position, but would give Boro something to fall back on, should neither youngster end up being up to the task.

Posted by: Ken  | July 16, 2008 8:15 AM

John Powls wrote...

Encouraging news about O'Neil's recovery from injury.

Pleased for Boro but a little disappointed for the lad that Emnes looks likely to miss The Birds Nest in favour of The Estadio Algarve and Kit Kat Crescent!

I don't think we should be entertaining any thoughts about French Franck - despite the attraction of left back cover. Going back is rarely a good idea.

Waiting for The Count to spring the deal for Carson or Robinson in time for me to run the rule in Portugal.

Time for O'Neill of the Villans to join the queue of the disappointed over Stewie who will be even more convinced of Boro's ambition by the arrival of an English full International custodian!

Now I'm trying 'self-fulfilling prophecy'!

Posted by: John Powls  | July 16, 2008 11:44 AM

dek wrote...

Hi Anthony.
If Jones has been here 8 years, why hasn't he made the keepers position his own?
I rate Turnbull, but wish we would go for Carson,Foster,Robinson or Boltons reserve who played a blinder against us!
Didn't we sign a wonderkid keeper from Bradford called Sam Fuller?

Posted by: dek  | July 16, 2008 1:52 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

AV, have you had any response from Boro to your article in yesterday's Gazette on the keeper situation?

As the Blog had gone quiet today, I was beginning to wonder whether The Count had rewarded you with a visit during the night in order to get you on board.

If he did, either you will have no memory of the event or have been sworn to secrecy in some ritualistic induction to enter the inner circle and are unable to enlighten us.

Can you at least let us know if you woke up with your trouser leg rolled up with a goblet of red liquid by the bed so that we know that a new keeper has always been earmarked as part of the master plan?

Failing that, has anyone from the Gazette spotted any tall strangers with big hands entering Hurworth?

**AV writes: no, nothing sinister... although I did look under the car this morning with a mirror on a stick.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 16, 2008 3:22 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Off on a short break but not to the Algarve with JP.

Sorry for Emnes but pleased for us.

The Stewie story keeps being reinvented with different suitors. Imagine he is going nowhere other than to play in front of John in the Algarve so lets hope we have a good season to keep our best players happy.

Rather than bleat on about it I have decided not to mention that we need a keeper. So no mentions of Robinson, Carson, the Corporal and Turnbull in this post. Honest!

Back in a week, sighs of virtual relief flood across the web.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 16, 2008 4:14 PM

John Powls wrote...

So, Coppell says Harper is happy to languish at Reading in The Championship.

Fine, suits me.

We can forget that over-priced blind alley and get on to finding a proper creative midfielder.

Oh - and did anyone mention a goalie?

Posted by: John Powls  | July 16, 2008 4:48 PM

Ken wrote...

What would make sense for me is for Southgate to sign an old keeper in the last year of his career, as an insurance policy.

That would still allow Jones and Turnbull to compete for the starting position, but would give Boro something to fall back on, should neither youngster end up being up to the task.

Posted by: Ken  | July 16, 2008 7:23 PM

Richard wrote...

Agreed, John.

If Gareth has spoken to Harper (directly or through his agent), and if Harper has come across as anything like as ambivalent about leaving Reading as is indicated in the Sky quote from Coppell, then it's probably dead in the water.

Southgate won't take anyone who doesn't come across as showing genuine desire to join Boro.

Harper's possibly a guy who is southern-rooted unless he gets a massive offer from a very big club anywhere north of Watford. If he's "comfortable" where he is, let him stay there. Maybe he's averse to learning a foreign language, like!

Of course, Coppell's a savvy manager and he's not about to encourage somebody he wants to keep to up sticks and leave.

So I guess it boils down again to "don't believe everything you read in the media".

And while we're on the subject, what do you make of Boro signing Steven Gerrard?

Posted by: Richard  | July 16, 2008 8:25 PM

Richard wrote...

In Adam Steel's Gazette article today:

"GARETH Southgate has today been boosted by the news that Marvin Emnes has been omitted from Holland’s Olympic squad."

So he's not good enough then, eh?

Yes, I guess that must be a really BIG boost!

Posted by: Richard  | July 16, 2008 9:00 PM

kiwismog wrote...

I reckon Ken has got it right - get an old warhorse goalkeeper who can stand in until the transfer window opens should the others blow it. In fact, I believe Gareth hinted at this soon after selling Skippy. I must admit that I'm worried this signing hasn't been made yet; though, if it happened, faces would be saved all round. Otherwise he may have to pick between Pears and Steele!

Posted by: kiwismog  | July 17, 2008 7:02 AM

macthesmoggie wrote...

Boateng's comments re his time at the Boro....

http://www.icons.com/boateng/diary.html?16.07.08

A true professional and genuine role model in a game filling up with cheats and greed.

Posted by: macthesmoggie  | July 17, 2008 9:57 AM

Jaguar Boy wrote...

More in the papers today about Wigan lodging a £3m bid for Cattermole. A healthy return on investment for the academy or the loss of a good young player?

Depends how much you think he could develop given time and training, and how much he would calm down off the field, but at £3m, sounds like decent business to me.

Also depends on how we would look to spend the money - is it assumed as already used covering the Digard deal, is it to be used to strengthen the Harper bid, or can we use it towards the really good playmaker & goalie that I believe we're still missing?

Sounds like its definitely Digard no.1 and Shawky no.2 as holding midfielders anyway, which I think most would be happy enough with.

Left wings sorted, right wing's either Emnes, Aliadiere, or Oneill, or is Oneill to be pushed inside now?

Attacking mid leaves Arca on his billy - needs sorting!

As for goalie, well enough's been said here already.

Posted by: Jaguar Boy  | July 17, 2008 12:07 PM

John Powls wrote...

The new/retro away kit - a masterstroke!

Neil Bausor is starting to get things consistently right. Keep it up, Neil!

Posted by: John Powls  | July 17, 2008 12:21 PM

Dennis Wilson wrote...

AV;

a post on sky sports fan letters page says a security officer at Hurworth has seen carson, harper and Rothen there this morning, any truth in it, please tell us carson is there at least!!

if not please gareth get us a NEW keeper!!!!!!

Posted by: Dennis Wilson  | July 17, 2008 12:56 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Interesting to see Bristol City have finally signed the other Egyptian we had on trial (along with Shawky), Emad Motaeb.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 17, 2008 2:20 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

From Anthony Vickers on 15th July: "...It is probably fair to say that Jones does not inspire confidence in supporters. He scares the hell out of many. His displays in a Boro shirt have been patchy at best. He saved a Ruud van Nistlerooy penalty to help grab a goalless draw against Manchester United in one of his early outings but the goodwill garnered there has been chipped away by a string of stuttering displays, fluffs and fumbles. In the 3-2 defeat at Sunderland last term - his only league game - he failed to command his area, failed to collect or punch and as his panic grew so did the chaos in defence. There were only half joking suggestions that he may be the first Boro keeper ever subbed for his own protection...."

Every working day between about 11.15 & 11.30, provided I'm at my desk, I pay a little visit to the "Gazette" site to check for the latest news of developments on the Boro FC front. Every day since the transfer window re-opened, I've checked more anxiously than usual, hoping against hope that there'll be a report that a goalkeeper of the calibre of, say, Carson, or Robbo, or Ben Foster, or even, as dek suggested, Ali Al Habsi of Bolton, will shortly be making his way to the Riverside to replace Skippy as the custodian of the N° 1 shirt. Every day so far I've come away bitterly disappointed.

The point of my quoting the above extract from Anthony's article in Tuesday's "Gazette" (I've deliberately run several of his paragraphs together) is this: the powers that be at MFC are frequently said to be concerned about falling attendances at matches & have in the past resorted to various gimmicks to try to boost them.

What better way to persuade/reassure waverers that, if they do part with their hard-earned dosh, either to renew their season card (if they have one) or simply to turn up on the day, they're going to get value for money than to sign a shot-stopper who *doesn't* scare the hell out of them? Otherwise, why should they bother to fork out to watch a match in which goals are going to be shipped by the bucketload?!!!

Or am I just being naive? Is it more complicated than that? It stikes me that Gareth us hell-bent on committing professional suicide...! :(

Oh, & while I'm at it, from the Beeb's gossip column:

"Latics manager Steve Bruce has also lodged a £3m bid for Middlesbrough midfielder Lee Cattermole. (Daily Mail)"

"[Paul] Ince has made a late bid to hijack Scott Carson's move to Stoke as Brad Friedel looks set to complete a move to Aston Villa. (Daily Mail)"

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | July 17, 2008 3:13 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

love the new away strip!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | July 17, 2008 3:58 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

The panic about Jones/Turnbull is getting ridiculous now. Have a little faith.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 17, 2008 4:23 PM

jc wrote...

Dennis Wilson: Rothen? A 30 year old left winger? Let's hope not, 'cause it doesn't bode well if true (Downing leaving?).

Enough has been said about a new keeper already, but I agree with Jaguar Boy that we need an attacking central midfielder to compete with Arca. I think we can do better than Harper, and I doubt O'Neil's ability to fulfil that role, or Downing's for that matter; O'Neil doesn't seem to have the passing or vision, and Downing hasn't got the presence.

I actually like Arca in that role, and the 'tippy-tappy' nickname grates with me. A forward playing midfielder should be able to play quick, short passes - they need a 'tippy-tappy' element to their game, so why so pejorative?

Having said that, we all saw how disastrously his form can drop, as it did last season - which is why I think we need someone with similar skills but greater consistency.

I think 3M for Catts isn't bad, either. He hasn't shown many signs of progressing this season, and if he's going to, it'll be more likely to happen at a different club where he's not so comfortable.

AV - well done on learning how to use your spell-checker! You're now fully equipped for the 20th Century.

**AV writes: Owch!

Posted by: jc  | July 17, 2008 4:48 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Getting bored with the keeper debate, now, lads and lasses. Carson is not going to sign for Stoke after all, but so what? Gate has made his position clear at least twice - why should he change now? No matter how much tearing of hair and wringing of hands goes on on the message boards and blogs, his mind appears to be made up. So we'd best move on, accept it and get behind whoever he chooses. For the record, I'd rather start with Turnbull than the Corporal any time - he gives me much more confidence.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | July 17, 2008 7:25 PM

lauren wrote...

Carson still doesn't know where he is going, why don't Boro bid for him? if not there are other keepers available. i agree with everyone else that we need to sign someone.

Posted by: lauren  | July 17, 2008 8:33 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

I have been away for the day, visiting a Cambridge University College which has been climbing the Tomkins Table like a mountaineer on a mission. It seeks to recruit "students of the highest calibre who will bring enthusiasm and ambition to their studies.....outstanding academic peformance is rewarded...", and which prides itself as providing a friendly and "... outstanding atmosphere which will enable (you) to thrive academically, puruse your interests and take on new challenges..." I will not names names, so as to protect the innocent.

Imagine my surprise (as they used to say in some magazines) when the assistant Porter at the college announced he was a Boro fan! He had family in the Whitby and Darlington areas. A brief summary of his comments goes something like this:

1. I think we are OK at centre back for the new season, particularly if Huth can stay fit.

2. I like the look of Alves and think Tuncay was a great buy who could play a big role next year.

3. I was pleased to hear that Mido looks to have trimmed down and hopefully he can stay fit because last year we saw so little of him it is difficult to make a judgment on him, but he could also play a vital role. How was he allowed to get so big in the first place?

4. The two lads Emnes and Digard sound like what we need and I look forward to seeing them, but I think we also need a skilful midfielder who can "make things happen" because I don't think we can afford Arca in that role - he gives away the ball too often in dangerous positions.

5. I am really worried about the goalkeeping situation and can't believe Gareth is making a rod for his own back by NOT going for an experienced keeper. (In the course of the discussion, our friendly Porter even mentioned the names Carson and Robinson and the fairly low price-tags attached to them)

6. He said he gets to some of the games if he can tie that in with visits to his family and that (a) the £95 ticket for youngsters was a great idea and (b) the last game he went to was the Cardiff cup game which was shocking and....(I won't waste time typing it up as you all know, and will agree, with his horror at the performance that day).

Now, I realise you will all have to take this on trust from me but the above is not just me setting out my views. It was when I introduced myself and told him where I came from that he announced he was a Boro fan. I told him I have a season ticket/card, and then the above just gushed out like a waterfall. He didn't need prompting! It was a while before I could get a word in.

The point is that, 200 miles south, and getting up here only infrequently, his unprompted comments mirror what most of the correspondents on this blog have been saying for some time. He didn't know about this website blog (I did give him the details so, you never know Vic, you might start getting missives from the Ivory Towers of academe in future), so it isn't as if he has been influenced by views repeatedly set out here.

I had wondered whether this blog might be contributed to by a self-selecting group of people who just happen to share the same wild delusions about the Boro. The Cambridge College Porter, isolated from us up here, not knowing about the blog etc....well, surely it's too much that he is saying what we are saying. Maybe we (and he) have been right all along!

I wonder whether anyone at the club reads this blog. Are they as concerned as we are, or do they think the vast majority of their "customers" (mostly fundamentalist, hardline, serial season ticket-renewers with the club dear to their hearts) are simply wrong? Or might they suspect we ARE right but hope, against hope, it will turn out OK in the end?

I appreciate the views of a College Porter are just the views of a supporter (though if I ran the club, and such a large number of my "customers" were voicing the same concerns I might have pause for thought and question whether we were going the right way). I know it is academic Cambridge rather than Loughborough University, with its involvement in sports science, or rather than Warwick, where it seems most of our backroom staff have been spending time getting their coaching certificates and Pro-Licences.

But, maybe next time I go down to East Anglia, I could ask an Economics Professor what would be the financial consequences if the midfield and onion bag both go pear-shaped next season?

I could ask the Regius Professor of Divinity which prayers would be most likely to save us from the fate which dares not speak its name. I didn't see Stephen Hawking trundle his way down West Road today (it was a little damp!). Maybe next time I could ask him what the effect would be of a Big Bang on a Premier League club like ours, if the club's calculations (on the skilful midfielder and goalkeeping situation) are wrong?

Look chaps, I am prepared to go down there again and ask the right questions of the right people if I could be assured someone might listen to the answers.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 17, 2008 10:02 PM

Richard wrote...

Poor ol' AV. He's only equipped for the last century! Not like JC, who I'm sure is bang up to date with all the latest gadgetry, like PDAs with calendars! (Maybe that'll take some of the pain away, Vic! Looks like JC's better with words than numbers!) :)

Forever Dormo: A decent shot at livening up the blog!
It feels like just about all's been said about goalies - other than to wonder at the £6.5M difference in valuation between Carson and Craig Gordon. Were Sunderland done up like kippers? Or is there a real difference in sticky-glove quality there?
So a new input, albeit by proxy, is interesting - although one rather obviously doesn't need a PhD in Natural Philosophy, Astronomy or Astrophysics to see where the black holes are in Boro's squad.

Beam yourself up Scotty! Come and join our Enterprise! And with (old) George's departure, we seem to have averted the danger from a possible new generation of Klingons! (Sorry George - a cheap shot!)

As for your Cambridge College porter, it just goes to show that even in those auspicious surroundings - some people never learn! Still supporting Boro, eh? Sheesh!

Posted by: Richard  | July 18, 2008 1:15 AM

Neil (Yarm) wrote...

jc, I tend to agree with you on most of what you said, although I've never heard of this Rothen bloke.

Arca was having a good spell in midfield after Southgate eventually realised (as did Peter Reid) that he was never a full back as long as his posterior was pointing downwards.

Three things happened that seemed to ruin his game:

1. He was well and truly savaged by Sunderland in the first game last season, and picked up a nasty injury.

2. He was given the dreaded arm band.

3. He was paired with Rocky, which is where the "tipp-tappy" tag appeared from post the Cardiff debacle.

I also thought he had been told to play deeper than he would have liked, when he is much more efective playing further forward. Team tactics ruled.

With the input of Digard, plus I believe O'Neill playing in the middle then Arca may get the chance to revert to a forward playing role, at the expense of who I don't know.

We seem to have a wealth of players who could play that role; Tuncay, Downing, Aliadiere, Emnes, all very mobile but we don't have what I term a real play maker amongst any of them, no-one who can hit a defence splitting pass. That for me is the area where we may be lacking.

The problem is finding someone who we can afford, Harper is not that man and I think Southgate seen him as more of a replacement for the departed George.

Selling Catts is probably on the cards when you look at what players we already have, all relatively young, and Catts has not really had the chances last season for us to measure his progress. Only the clubs coaches will know that really. It's a shame but I reckon he will go to WBA sooner rather than later.

By the way, isn't it the 21st century, and isn't it ouch, rather than owch, or did that one get through the chellspecker Vic?

**AV writes: The irony filter in the new software hasn't kicked in yet.

Posted by: Neil (Yarm)  | July 18, 2008 3:29 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

Arca was never the same player after his injury and, as has been said, he was often forced to play the more defensive role alongside Rochemback which didn't suit his game.

He deserves another chance to cement the attacking midfield spot as he was excellent when he first came into the team in that position. He is certainly capable of the defence-splitting pass as he has shown in the past - and capable of popping up and scoring a few goals.

O'Neill-Digard-Arca-Downing

would be a very good midfield I think.


Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 18, 2008 10:23 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

So Southgate has confirmed that there have been bids for Cattemole - and rather more ominous for Cattemole is that GS said he wouldn't stand in his way if he decided to move on - though I think a year loan deal would suit both parties better.

Regarding incoming transfers:

On the search for a central midfielder, may I suggest Steed Malbranque, who although has tended to play wide, could easily play the central attacking midfielder role - he's got a good first touch, can pass and tackle, score goals and has a change of pace, plus at 28 would add some experience to the team.

On the goalkeeper debate, Robert Green seems to be open for a new club according to this morning's press - failing that I'm leaning towards a move for Robinson as he's also a bit more experienced and it would be a better fit if Turnbull remained as understudy.

BTW AV, will the irony filter be able to smooth out other blog problems - e.g. The recent comments list always gets out of sync after posting a comment

**AV writes: We are working to 'iron' out a few teething problems with the new software that have made the blog hard work this week. But we are getting there. Hang on in.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 18, 2008 11:21 AM

Richard wrote...

AV: Irony filter? Is that anything like a magnet?

Posted by: Richard  | July 18, 2008 11:24 AM

Nigel wrote...

So it looks more and more likely that Cattermole is off to Wigan, at £3 million it looks like decent business for Boro and a good move for him. He must have been pretty cheesed off when he realised GS wasn't going to give him Boatengs position.
I have never been sure how good Cattermole is, I've seen him play some good games and quite a few average ones too.

It also looks more and more likely that it will be The Corpral or Turnbull in goal, I hope its Turnbull if nothing else he seems to have more presence.

Posted by: Nigel  | July 18, 2008 11:39 AM

jc wrote...

Richard - read AV's comment to Neil (Yarm) and check your filter settings. Then say a silent "owch" to yourself!

So it looks like Catts will be on his way, Harper is still in the frame despite the price hikes, and Southgate is persisting with his goalkeeping stance.

But, perhaps Harper is seen as a Cattermole replacement, and we're still looking for more bodies in midfield... West Ham are planning to just about halve their squad - anyone worth picking up there?

And now Robert Green is wanting a move, the market is veritably flooded with keepers! Will Gareth's levees give way eventually?

Mind, he used an odd phrase, that he had not been "offered" a keeper better than Turnbull or Jones - doesn't sound very proactive. It's worrying.

Posted by: jc  | July 18, 2008 11:42 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

Haha, Gareth's comments today about goalkeepers are going to annoy a few people!

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 18, 2008 11:55 AM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

From today's "Gazette":

"[...]The Boro boss, meanwhile, has yet again reaffirmed his intention not to sign a new keeper and give Ross Turnbull and Brad Jones a chance to claim the No 1 shirt.

“Quite frankly, I’ve not been offered a keeper over the summer better than either of them,� said Southgate."

That thud you just heard was the sound of LBBF's jaw dropping! :(

I note that he's still keen to land Stephen Harper, too, but "Reading are holding out for a fee in the region of £5m for the 27-year-old." Let's hope Steve Coppell's resolve doesn't suddenly weaken & eventually crumble...!


Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | July 18, 2008 12:23 PM

Jaguar Boy wrote...

I'm in full agreement with JC on GS' rather depressing comments regarding a keeper - "he hasn't been offered one"?!
Then get of your backside and go find yourself one then lad!

Posted by: Jaguar Boy  | July 18, 2008 12:32 PM

jiffy wrote...

£3m for Cattermole? I would grab their hands off!

Had we wanted to get rid I doubt we would have asked £1m for him.

Thats all we asked for Morrison!

He would have been ideal for a central attacking midfielder.

As for the keepers - well the preseason kicks off tonight. With a bit of luck it will be the 2 keepers who get the long-term injuries (without wishing anything on them from a personal point of view - have no doubt they are both decent lads - just not good enough for the job - and rescue Southgate from the mire he has talked himself into.

Posted by: jiffy  | July 18, 2008 1:00 PM

chris wrote...

Omg ...thought Gareth had got to grips with how the systemn works but no....he expects people to offer the good players to him not look for them....DUH!

How in the world has he managed to sign anyone in the closed season? I think he realises he is the only one in Teeside who thinks our current keepers can cope and now he is in denial or just plain stubborn who knows? I've got that feeling he doesn't know what he's doing again.....o dear...getting nervous again...lol

Posted by: chris  | July 18, 2008 1:41 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Better get used to Jones/Turnbull people, from the horse's mouth:

"We’ve had a chat with both of them and we obviously look around at other goalkeepers but we feel we’ve got two very good young goalkeepers who have done well when they’ve come into the side in the past. We think they need an opportunity.

"When I look at people like Scott Carson and Chris Kirkland who’ve had opportunities at other clubs and we feel our two are more than a match for them. Again we’ve done it in other positions and it’s worked for us and because we’ve got two we know that we’ve got good back up.

"So again because we’ve got to we know that we’ve got good back up. We’ve also got Jason Steele coming through and although he’s very young we’ve got high hopes for him as well."


Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 18, 2008 2:16 PM

dave wrote...

I see we have this ex sunderland and villa keeper lined up

http://www.alvesofficial.com/en/News/LatestNews/080707_Afonso_starts_pre_season.aspx

Posted by: dave  | July 18, 2008 3:16 PM

David Morrison wrote...

£3million for cattermole thats 3 x what hes worth. A good bit of business for Boro i think. Everyone is in agreement that he has undoubted potential but has failed to live up to expectations.

I think GS is setting the standard, if you wanna play average you will be an average player and not make it here at Boro. If you want to work hard, train hard give 100% and play well then you may find yourself in the team if you maintain it. I like it and for years this is what we have needed. Woody didnt like it neither the Boat and now Cattermole cant take it. Anymore for anymore?

Just shows modern day footballers cant put in the graft when they are under the most pressure.

COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | July 18, 2008 4:09 PM

chris wrote...

Yes dave on ALVEZ site he say...
"Boro have signed four new players, including the former Aston Villa keeper Thomas Sorensen, a Dutch striker and a central midfielder who was at Real Zaragoza."

You would think he would know his new team mates?

**AV writes: But that pre-dates the Emnes signing (" Dutch striker") so is well out of date. The players trade rumours as well you know.

Posted by: chris  | July 18, 2008 4:39 PM

Whitmore wrote...

i cannot believe the negativity of people in this forum. who would you rather pick, james harper who had a good season compared to the rest of a bunch of average players putting in average effort who has maxamised his potential or would you pick a young hungry teeside born lad who loves the area and always gives 100% and is an england under 21 and was touted as a future captain of england. I value him more near 6 million than 3 million given the current inflated prices system

Posted by: Whitmore  | July 18, 2008 6:51 PM

bugrit wrote...

When GS said that he had never been offered anyone better than either of our present goalkeepers, maybe what he meant was that Keith Lamb and/or our scouts haven't offered him anyone better.

Okay, okay, so I'm clutching at straws.

Posted by: bugrit  | July 18, 2008 7:13 PM

stevo wrote...

Selling Cattermole then buying Harper seems like a pointless excercise to me, and bad business as Boro will no doubt come out of both deals a couple of million to the worse.

Cattermole still has time to improve his game and has the basic ingredients of a soid central midfeilder, and I think he has been judged too harshly by the local snipers too soon. But maybe GS could be proven right on this one.

On the Goalkeeper issue, he is doomed. I can see the rest of the premiership managers gleefully saying to their teams ''pepper that rookie goalie lads - shoot from anywhere - one of ems gonna go in and then the Boro will collapse''

Posted by: stevo  | July 18, 2008 7:14 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Well, we can forget about Carson! Mogga's signed him!

"West Brom snap up keeper Carson

Carson made his debut for England against Austria in November
West Bromwich Albion have signed England international goalkeeper, Scott Carson, from Liverpool for £3.25m. The 22-year-old, who spent last season on loan at Aston Villa, has joined on a four-year deal.

Carson, who had been linked with a move to West Brom's fellow Premier League newcomers, Stoke City, is the club's sixth signing this summer. The fee for Carson could rise to £3.75m, while the club have an option to extend the contract by another year.

"Scott is a young keeper who has achieved a lot in a short space of time," manager Tony Mowbray told West Brom's official site. "I think he's been looking for some stability in his career after spending a lot of his time as a Liverpool player out on loan at other clubs. Scott is one of a group of very talented, emerging, young English goalkeepers. Hopefully, we can provide him with a platform to push his career onwards and upwards."

Carson's signing takes the Baggies' summer spending to £13.75m. Mowbray has also recruited Roman Bednar, Luke Moore, Do-heon Kim, Graham Dorrans, Gianni Zuiverloon and Marek Cech as he looks to build a squad capable of surviving in the Premier League.

Carson joined Liverpool from Leeds for £750,000 in 2005, but spent last season on loan at Aston Villa, making 35 Premier League appearances. And the £3.25m fee marks a major reduction in the player's asking price, with Liverpool previously holding out for around £10m, a fee that saw Villa cool their interest in the player. Carson had also been linked with Blackburn Rovers, with their keeper Brad Friedel reportedly a target for the Villans."

* I see the Corporal shipped two goals against lowly York City earlier this evening...


Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | July 18, 2008 10:23 PM

Neil (Yarm) wrote...

I'm a bit disappointed that Catts is being let go, I just hope we don't get the "we have to balance the books" comments again.

Although MFC may think it's good business, there comes a time when you sometimes have to turn your back on the money and do the right thing, and doing the right thing here would have been at worst a loan deal for Catts and let him further develop (or not) as Boro player. Doing that Boro had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I could have accepted it better if the 3mill was going to be spent getting Robinson or Carson in.

Anyway, watch out for a late bid from Mogga.

Posted by: Neil (Yarm)  | July 18, 2008 11:58 PM

JOHN ROGERS wrote...

WHAT'S WRONG AT BORO? WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO STOP LETTING GOALS IN IN THE LAST 5 MIUTES OF THE FIRST HALF,IN THE FIRST 5 MINUTES OF THE SECOND HALF AND THE FINAL 5 MINUTES OF THE MATCH ?
EVERY PREMIER MANAGER MUST KNOW THERE ARE THEE EASY GOALS TO BE HAD IN EVERY MATCH TO BE PLAYED.

IS IT THE INEXPERIENCE OF THE MANAGER ?

Posted by: JOHN ROGERS  | July 25, 2008 1:13 PM

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