Boro's Number One?

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Only Boro could have no NO.1 in the team !
Our Defence looked good last night , until 88mins that is . Same old!

If Gate had played our first 11 instead of mixing it up so each half gives everyone a go I reacon we would have given Celtic a tonking.
Highlights 1st half- Luke Young , Marvin Emnes, Pogger, Arcas passing!
Highlights second half- Tuncay, Alliadierre s pace, Digard .

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | July 23, 2008 1:07 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

He's got a sense of humour has our Gareth, and he likes to build up the tension. Just you wait! Expect an announcement that Casillas is flying in to Teesside Airport anytime soon. Or did Buffon intend a quick swansong before handing over the gloves to a younger man?

(They would be flying in to Durham Tees Valley Airport, or whatever its title is these days, but most agents think that Raleigh/Durham airport is in the USA, and at the moment they do not have any teams in the Premier League - just team owners).

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 23, 2008 2:12 PM

jiffy wrote...

Like I suggested before - play rush goalie. Just leave the No 1 shirt in the goalmouth for nearest to pick up.

Posted by: jiffy  | July 23, 2008 2:14 PM

Nigel wrote...

I find it hard to believe that GS doesn't know which of his keepers will be his no.1. If he doesn't then god help us, does he expect us to believe that for several seasons the club had three premiership quality keepers in the squad, two of which were happy to sit and twidle their thumbs until Schwarz decided to call it a day?!

Posted by: Nigel  | July 23, 2008 3:17 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Nigel, I would take Gareth on his word, therefore I don't believe he has decided who is his number one yet! Hence, the lack of number one in the squad numbers. He's probably waiting for a random injury so he doesn't have to decide. I bet he fancies Turnbull, but Jones is going to be pretty gutted if he doesn't get the nod after all this time as Schwarzer's understudy. I'll be very impressed if he does go with Turnbull.

We've accepted Wigan's offer for Cattermole according to the official site - hopefully that means we can sign Harper asap and all our transfer activity will be completed before the end of July. Amazing.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 23, 2008 4:21 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Interesting omission, that, AV... And curiously, according to the "Times" site, Blackburn have just accepted an offer from "an unnamed Premier League club" for 37-year-old Brad Friedel, though the chances are that that came from Villa. ;)

Since Gareth apparently waits to be offered players, since no one else appears to have mentioned it, wonder if he's mulling this one over (from the transfer talk column in today's "Times");

"Long shots

Seville have offered Arouna Koné, the 24-year-old Ivory Coast forward, to Middlesbrough."

Who he?

Question for Mrs Elsie Cattermole on the "Catts" thread, assuming she pops in to read this one: since when has Michael Owen played for the Latics?!!!

P.S. AV: what's a "conunderum"? *confused*

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | July 23, 2008 7:58 PM

lauren wrote...

emnes looked good last nite and arca aswell

Posted by: lauren  | July 23, 2008 8:08 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Oh no, AV - you've opened up the keeper debate again! Now there'll be endless speculation, followed by even more endless hand-wringing. Our hopes have been raised again. But this is Boro - we know what happens - surely they will be dashed cruelly once again on the rocks of despair as the season opens with the Corporal between the sticks.......Gate will no doubt tell us in a few days' time that neither keeper wanted the number 1 shirt, something to do with bad luck, bad vibes or bad Feng Shui... "so we're happy to let them keep their old numbers."

Which might be just as well. With the Corporal in goal we're going to need all the luck we can get.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | July 23, 2008 9:52 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

The Cattermole money must be spent on a keeper and the lack of a NO1 shirt hints at that doesnt it?
It is possibly the most important position on the park.
A good keeper behind our defense would alter many results in our favor.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | July 23, 2008 11:00 PM

Ken wrote...

If we are going to speculate on the basis of numbers, then we can only assume that 23 is being reserved for Becks... And, at this point, it is good that everyone is used to seeing Tuncay with "17" on the white band of his red shirt, even if that was a Turkey shirt that looks amazingly like previous Boro shirts...

Posted by: Ken  | July 24, 2008 8:35 AM

Nigel wrote...

BoroPhil - I hope you're right and GS does choose Turnbull as his no.1. If we have Corporal Jones between the sticks we might as well go the whole hog and replace The Boat with 'Pike' and play 'Walker' up front!
I'm off for two weeks in the sun now, by the time I'm back the new season will be very close, can't wait. TTFN.

Posted by: Nigel  | July 24, 2008 10:17 AM

AA wrote...

One ommission that is worth comment why has Nathan Porritt not been given a squad number, after signing professional terms is he not to challenge for 1st team this season

Posted by: AA  | July 24, 2008 10:39 AM

Andy, the Hague wrote...

A propos of none of the above, nice to Eric writing in the Geezette once more...

**AV writes: Yes, he is a few weeks behind the rest of the squad in terms of pre-season but we'll have the old warhorse up to speed ready for the big kick-off.

Posted by: Andy, the Hague  | July 24, 2008 12:31 PM

Paulverine wrote...

Porritt hasn't been given a number, but neither's Richie Smallwood, who also just signed a professional contract. I suppose it's the club's way of telling the player that they still have years of hard work ahead of them - those were the kind of noises that came from the club about Smallwood's contract - that now he's signed a pro contract he has to work even harder.

Posted by: Paulverine  | July 24, 2008 1:29 PM

Mainy wrote...

Wise move by Southgate not to give a number 1 shirt to either keeper as if either was given it, the other may have decided that he is not rated so requested a move, leaving us with 1 unproven keeper and a kid in Jason Steele.

Speculation above is that the 23 shirt is saved for Beckham, does that mean that Ronaldo is on his way for that number 7 shirt?

Nice to see Herold Goulon given a number, quitely working his way into the squad since he signed.

Posted by: Mainy  | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM

Little Marc wrote...

AV, is there any truth in the persistent rumour that Sorensens actually training with the Boro?

Wikipedia reckons he's been up in the Smog since the 22nd.

Posted by: Little Marc  | July 24, 2008 3:05 PM

John Powls wrote...

Pre-match at the Guimares game.

Saw the team and coaching staff onto the coach at the hotel and had a chat with Pogi as we waited. We can confirm all you said about him, AV - what a nice guy.

Got a photo of him with Phil and Emnes, whose English isn't yet so good as Pogi's but he was pleasant to - and a little embarrassed when we told him how well we thought he'd played in his first 45 in a Boro shirt.

Drove to the stadium and despite the police outriders the team coach had we got there first and were greeted by a cheery wave from Coops who right now is on the pitch setting out for the warm up.

Update at half time.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 24, 2008 6:23 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

Given that Carson and Robinson, the two touted as the fans favourites, have signed cheaply for other clubs, it appears that Gareth is good as his word, namely that Turnbull and Jones will be the keepers representing our football club this coming season.
According to the general sway of the posters in this blog, both keepers have been written off as sub-standard, no-hopers, who will cost us dearly.

Now, I don't know if Gareth's decision is correct or not, only time will tell, but there is one that is for sure, if we don't start trusting his judgement, if we don't start accepting Turnbull and Jones, the minute one of them makes a mistake, the boo boys will come out of the woodwork once again and undo a lot of the good work, a lot of the optimism. It is time to jump off the bandwagon and support the manager's judgement

Does Southgate have our trust or not?

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | July 24, 2008 6:58 PM

John Powls wrote...

Not sure if it was the heat, the different permutation of players or what but this evening's 'first half team' laboured to produce anything against a Guimares side that offered very little - except some agricultural tackling, overlooked by a ref from the Algarve FA who produced - with his linos - the worst display of 'homing' and incompetence I've ever seen in a professional game.

Digard and Arca struggled to get any grip and create anything in the centre of midfield. The pick going forward was Johnno who tormented their right back when he was switched to the left, having started on the right.

Alves had a couple of decent runs and a free kick curled over which resulted from Johnno's best run of the half.

The defence was solid, with Williams impressing alongside the Redcar Rock. Pogi had joined Stewie and Brad Jones on the 'kept out by a minor niggle' list.

Turnbull had only one save to make and fumbled but recovered to smother the shot from the forward following up.

Goal-less and almost chanceless in the first half - let's hope the 'second half team' can bag a few!

Posted by: John Powls  | July 24, 2008 8:22 PM

John Powls wrote...

You know how you get that feeling.... It's deja vu all over again.

Deep into the four minutes of injury time and we concede a corner. But no, we've cleared it! Then their winger cuts inside Tony McMahon who'd spent the whole of the second half showing us that he's getting back to his form before the injuries hung a leg out and gave away a free kick.

A full minute of setting the wall up that got Huth a booking was time not only wasted but wasted with knobs on as if failed to stop the kick curling round the despairing Turnbull and into the side of the net.

The whistle blew and we had finished bottom of the Algarve Cup.

See what I mean about deja vu!

The 'second half team' produced no better than their first half counterparts.

Emnes and Aliadiere showed flashes of their better work but were mostly isolated. Robert Huth looked as sadly out of touch tonight as he had looked sound on Tuesday.

The midfield continued to lack grip and fluency as it had in the first half.

And that was the key to the difference between the Celtic game and this one.

On Tuesday we had that grip and fluency so we played on the deck and played through midfield and looked good because of it.

Tonight our central midfield - in fact all of our midfield bar Johnno (who was MoM for all the seventy minutes he was on) - went AWOL.

We couldn't and didn't play through midfield so the link between back and front disappeared and so defenders came under more pressure than they needed to from a side as limited as Guimares.

And when the defenders looked forward there was no pass other than the big lump up the pitch or the attempt at a booming diagonal which forced Emnes and Aliadiere wide in search of the ball. Inevitably, out there, they were much less effective.

Not sure why - and I hope it wasn't a flare up of the injury - but Gary O'Neil was missing too.

All in all, apart from getting some more game time into the players, Phil and I couldn't see what Gate would have got from tonight or what he'd have learned - except that we're a hugely better side when we get it down and play through the midfield; but what's new in that.

Maybe the game time is enough for now but we should be looking for more from the next few friendlies than we got in this game and maybe we can build on the performances in the Celtic game.

In the days to come there will be time to reflect - and I will. But for now, Phil and I are pleased to have had this experience and thrilled to have felt closer to the team and coaches who have - to a man - been courteous, friendly and have shown the sort of behaviour that made you proud to be associated with the club.

**AV writes: Oh no! You have stepped inside the circle of niceness! Now you can never criticise again! Seriously though, there is a quiet air of progressive, inclusive unity about the club now that is totally different from the dysfunctional friction under the previous regime.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 24, 2008 11:02 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

AV

I do not know which is worse about JP's posting.

Is it the content which hints at being a bit toothless though there is plenty of time to get players fully fit and put a the first team on the pitch.

Or is it the fact the MFC Staszi have turned JP into a double agent? Or is he playing a cunning game? No, the club appears to be moving forward under the stewardship of Gate and more fan focussed.

The one thing we will all have to be wary of is that the players also need to do it on the pitch when the season starts.

On the Cat tissue I think he needs to go. Reading the various posts my feeling is that the truth of his refuelling habits is now irrelevant. He would be better off with a clean start and a break from the goldfish bowl of living and playing in his hometown area. A clean start may be the best solution for all parties and if we get a good fee as looks likely it is decent business. If he goes I wish him all the best like.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 25, 2008 8:09 AM

davwind wrote...

AV could you clear something up for me? Do we not have a home friendly this season against decent opposition were we can ascertain who could be The Gate's first choice eleven, give lads a chance to gel and the new boys a first glimpse of 30,000+(!) at the Riverside?

Also didn't see any of the second friendly but against Celtic I thought O'Neil looked good and at home in the middle. He surely has to start the season in the midfield again.

**AV writes: No, there is no home friendly this year.

Posted by: davwind  | July 25, 2008 10:39 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Pre season friendlies are entirely that, occasions to learn about formations, line ups, how new players and styles are integrating. We would all prefer wins and lots of goals but it doesnt always work like that.

I only have one quibble with Gates comments after last nights match. We concede a goal in injury time for the second match running and comments it is a lesson we must learn, musnt switch off. If we didnt learn the lesson last season with countless late lapses how does he think we will learn it now?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 25, 2008 12:18 PM

dan wrote...

I'm thirteen so my views are probably a load of rubbish but if wikipedia is right in saying that Thomas Sorensen is training with us and he's a free agent it'd be a decent bit of business in buying him he's 32 so he still has a few years in him.

As regards Turnbull or Jones i reckon Jones is the more agile shot stopper but Turnbull is probably more reliable at catching the ball from corners etc. I don't mind who Southgate picks but Jones would probably be more successful.

I think our team on the outside looks really good with bundles of pace (Emnes runs the 100 metres in 10.5 seconds!)

Posted by: dan  | July 25, 2008 5:05 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Fear not! I can assure you that I haven't gone over to the 'Light Side'.

Just an Algarve postscript.

As Phil and I were waiting for our flight in Faro airport early this morning - unfortunately surrounded by the jubilant Cardiff team who seemed more pleased with their win over Celtic than winning the Tournament - we saw two folks that we hadn't seen with the Boro party at the hotel.

First was one of the newer additions to our scouting team, Gordon McQueen.

The other a pensive and pacing Count, glued to his mobile.

Deals in the offing?

If he is thinking about Catts out and Harper in, on the basis of the Algarve, I'd ask him and Gate to think again.

So, Harper's a younger version of The Boat or Mustoe-Lite as you called him. Nothing wrong, in itself with that.

But he gives us very little added variation on what we already have with Digard, O'Neil and Shawky. Whereas we still lack a forward thinking, creative, passing, right sided midfielder who is going to provide Alves, Mido, Aliadiere and Tuncay with the ammo they'll need and so it isn't all down to Stewie again and the supply doesn't all have to come from the wings - I don't think that route particularly suits Alves anyway.

Whislt Arca had his moments in the Celtic game he was poor (though not alone in that) against Guimares. No supply, not enough pace and no grip.

I don't see us getting the service we need from him - or at least not from him alone or consistently enough.

So, can we shelve the Harper idea and look at an athlete/artist rather than an
athlete artisan?

Posted by: John Powls  | July 25, 2008 6:44 PM

Mainy wrote...

Dan, your right on the wikipedia info, i looked it up and it does say he is currently training with us. AV is there any news from the club about this? as i agree with Dan that it would be a good bit of business.

Dan, i personally feel that Turnbull would be the better choice, Jones has been around to long now and has never pushed enugh for that 1st team slot IMO. My trouble with Jones is that he can throw a ball further than he can kick it which is a bit of a worry!

**AV writes: I would be very wary of taking anything on an open access user editable website like wikipedia as gospel. We have seen Boro training at Hurworth and in the Algarve for a fortnight now and Sorenson is yet to be spotted. If it was true why would a free agent be kept under wraps?

Posted by: Mainy  | July 25, 2008 7:34 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Ian Gill wrote...

I only have one quibble with Gates comments after last nights match. We concede a goal in injury time for the second match running and comments it is a lesson we must learn, musnt switch off. If we didnt learn the lesson last season with countless late lapses how does he think we will learn it now?

No need to quibble mate. GS said he was building for this year, so let's see it. It's make or break for him and his team. No more excuses.I'm saying nothing for now.

I've been positive so far post end of season and that's the way I'm going to stay in order to keep the mob happy and to demonstrate some degree of loyalty to the cause.

Everyone knows that he and his team are not one bit to my liking, but given that I've been wrong many, many times before in my life there's every chance that I'm wrong again. I certainly hope so.

Apart from the fact that we have no number one in goals and that GS seems to have absolute faith for some unknown reason in Laurel and Hardy, I'm quite happy with the signings made and I think we've got quite a decent team apart from this one area which I personally think will come back to haunt him big time.

How is it that only GS can't see what the rest of us know for a fact ? I really can't get my head around this one, even with the best and most positive will in the world.

But, that apart, so far I'm more optimistic than usual.

The 85 million in debt, sell before I can buy, is extremely worrying though.

Where exactly did the the 60 odd million for staying up go AV ??????????????

How can we be in so much debt AV ????

Anyway, here's to hoping we get off to a flyer and that we have a great season.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | July 25, 2008 10:09 PM

Mainy wrote...

Worrying times, Blackburn have signed Robinson for £3.5mill, Carson went to WBA for the same, both England internationals and we have two rookie keepers and looking to pay £5mill for a midfielder from a relegated side.

Prices now-a-days make no sence, we paid £7m for Ravinelli back in the 90's, he banged in 31 goals, we got relegated and sold for about £5m, a loss of 2mill and that was back in the robson days so how can we justify paying 5m for Harper if we sign him if you consider our debt which mostly steems from Robsons day (and building the stadiun).

AV i've no idea why the club would keep it quite about Sorenson and i know what you mean about wiklipedia however the story about him originally started on Alves' website allegedly.

It just baffles me that GS is really looking at just Jones & Turnbull when over the last few seasons he has had opportunities to keep them in the team however dropped them everytime Schwarzer was fit. If he rated them IMO he would have played them.

I really hope he is looking for a new keeper even if it is someone like Harper at newcastle, someone who is a tad more experienced than our two and if they dont work out we know we have a reliable back up.

For me, I hope there is some truth in the Sorenson story. How long till the papers link us with Cudicini now that Robinson, Carson & Friedel are on the move?

Posted by: Mainy  | July 25, 2008 11:59 PM

Mal from Ingleby wrote...

The debate on Jones v Turnbull goes on, but the majority seem to agree, get a new keeper. However, until we stop conceding late and sometimes very late goals we'll struggle.

Last season, Sunderland home and away, West Ham at home, Arsenal away, Reading home and these just from memory, and we're still doing it. Just what goes on in the players minds during those last few minutes, is it lack of concentration, fear, blind panic, what?

Having just seen last seasons highlights dvd, it's serves as a reminder that Schwartzer dropped some clangers, but to be fair different goalies have been involved in this problem and as he's gone it's not possible to pin the blame for any lack of confidence in the keeper just on him.

For me the problem is more basic. We seem to finish games more times on the defensive than on the attack so putting ourselves under pressure. Maybe if we had a keeper who could command his box more effectively we'd concede less late on.

However, as we are clearly not going to get one then it's up to the outfield players to keep the ball away from our goal and not concede silly dead ball situations. Easier said than done I know.

You would think that with the support team GS now has it should not be beyond them to steel the players to see games out more often. Maybe this season we can score enough goals earlier to kill games off.

Whatever, the conceding of late goals has to be sorted and quickly.

Mal from Ingleby

Posted by: Mal from Ingleby  | July 26, 2008 12:59 AM

Richard wrote...

Goalkeepers and Boro's Strategic Vision:

Some months ago, we had a debate on this blog which, I recall, signalled the start of my contributions to it. The subject was Boro's position and status within a Premier League elite and whether we could reasonably expect to achieve any form of "Sporting Glory", given the dominance of the league by big-monied clubs and the seemingly unstoppable march of further intrusive takeovers of our city clubs by global investors. Some of you will remember the discussions.

At that time, a few of us acknowledged that the future of clubs like Boro could only reasonably be expected to be a "support" role as "feeder" clubs for the big guys.

Boro, amongst others, would, at best, be a "bit player" in the annual Manchelarsepool procession and we would be a feeder club - in business to provide the nurturing grounds for playing talent, the best of which would inevitably be gobbled up by Manchelarsepool. And while we wouldn't actually win anything, we, the club that is, would be paid some money for providing Manchelarsepool with their required sustenance, whilst at the same time, continue to be ignominiously hammered in sporting performance terms by the very talent that we had helped, with others, to provide to them.

In that context and with that as a strategic perspective, the current goalkeeper situation takes on a whole different and understandable meaning. If, that is, the aforementioned role of clubs like Boro has been accepted as an inevitability by Steve Gibson and other chairmen and CEOs as being the best we're ever likely to achieve with the league utterly and hopelessly shackled by global commercial interests and with regulation in sporting terms continuing to give way to purely business interests.

It's no longer about taking a gamble on Boro losing football matches through the loss of the odd giveaway goal by a rookie keeper. It becomes a situation consistent with developing new and young talent, by forcing them to the forefront of responsibility and opportunity and developing their marketability to more dominant forces in the game. It may be dressed up as something different to try to appease the punters and those who believe the hype about genuinely seeking sporting success. But to those of a more conspiratorial bent, the reality is a more sinister, yet an intrinsically fawning agenda.

The extrapolated challenge to Ross and Brad then becomes,.......
"Prove yourselves worthy of holding a position in a Premier League stopper's berth and make yourself a prospective candidate for selling on to one of the big lads who will pay us big money for your future services, while we accept that you'll be learning your trade here and as a consequence, we'll continue to get hammered but we'll maintain our position as a small, feeder club for the guys with money."

Suddenly, the Boro goalkeeping scenario all starts to make some kind of sense - in BUSINESS terms.

However, for those of us who are more inclined to prefer our sport to be played in a more traditional sense, without loaded dice and on a more level playing field than is currently offered by the money-driven Premier League, this strategy has a rancid taste and smacks of "the club has rolled over and is going to play dead". Such a role is NOT acceptable in any genuine sporting context where winning is what is important and counseling anything short of that is unacceptable and treasonous. To have a club accept it’s role as “loser� before a ball is kicked, is contradictory in a sporting sense and is therefore, to me, anathema.

But why else would we have let Carson, Robinson, Friedel and other Premier League-proven goalkeepers (none of whom have gone to Manchelarsepool, it must be acknowledged) slip through our fingers?

It seems a bit stark, to me at least, that we have now entered the new era of the redefined role of Middlesbrough Football Club. The also-rans who are investing, not for “Sporting Glory�, but to enable us to continue to play second or third fiddle to those who lead the orchestra that is conducted by News Corporation through their executive puppet(s) in the Premier League.

Hanson said, “You won’t win anything with kids.� He’s likely to be correct in the long haul. But that’s not the role of those clubs who are investing in youth – other than to win sufficient matches to keep us in the new BUSINESS role of developing the youth and selling it on.

For many of those who pay money to watch team sport, that scenario is likely to be unacceptable and for them will be unsustainable.

As I have said before, I want to watch my sport played out on a playing field, NOT in a boardroom or round a negotiating table. And if I choose to support a football team, I want that team to win football matches. Not just to exist as a purveyor of future talent to Manchelarsepool.

When I feel I can’t have it, then I’ll walk away. I was close this time round and I may still regret not doing so. This season may herald my footballing euthanasia.

But, oh!, how much I want Hanson to be wrong, even if it does lead to a more protracted and agonizing parting of the ways!

Posted by: Richard  | July 26, 2008 2:58 AM

chris wrote...

Maybe Gareth does know the goal keeper situation is dreadful and has agreed to give them a chance ...being a gentleman about it and being true to his word with the two of them...basically giving them enough rope to hang themselves on

Then with Sorensen not being with any club he can bring him in at anytime...as i believe there is no restrictions to signing a non contracted player.....correct me if i am wrong but the transfer window does not apply to non contracted players.

Posted by: chris  | July 26, 2008 7:41 AM

chris wrote...

wilkipedia actually states 'As of July 22nd, Sorensen was training with Middlesbrough FC.' which is actually last tuesday so maybe he is actually training with the reserves since the team is in portugal?

Posted by: chris  | July 26, 2008 7:58 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

TB

Gate is moving in the right direction and as a fan I accept his right to run the club as he sees fit, like you I tend to look at bits that jar and discuss them.

The keeper one has been a debate for some time, when everyone wanted swarz i tended to be of the view he aint the best but there are worse. As Friedel goes off to Villa and Carson/Robinson have left for pastures new I am keeping my fingers crossed that either Corporal or Turnbull grasps the nettle.

On the debt, since MacMoses left the policy has been to get the high earners off the books - Romford Pele, JFH, YAK, Mendi, Rocky, Boat, Swarz, Veruka, Ugo, Massimo have all left for one reason or another. We dont know the wage bill but I guess there is no one at the club on their wages. The folly is that Yak apart we have received little in return for any of them but that was the nature of the contracts.

I suspect the club is managing its costs, a good part of the TV money will be fill the gap created by empty seats. Here I would like to applaud the club for its new membership scheme, at least something for regular fans who dont have season tickets and at ten pounds good value. At last a means to manage the fan base (in the positive sense).

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 26, 2008 8:48 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

It was interesting to read John 'our man in Portugal' Powls reports on the pre-season build-up.

It seems that typical Boro will raise their game against opposition they deem good (Celtic) and then fail to turn up against ordinary opposition.

Also switching off in the last few minutes still seems to be the order of the day.

On the search for a midfielder, I'm still not convinced that Harper is either the solution or worth 5m - I would now probably go for Bullard instead given that O'Neil is staying.

Another option might be to play Mido on the right, especially if he is leaner and fitter, as he can make a decent pass.

Though if Southgate plans to play 4-5-1 then there should be a lot of interchange tn the players positions.

Finally on the GK situation, perhaps Southgate will pick up an older keeper such as Sorensen or Niemi to act as 'cover' should our young keepers need a rest.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 26, 2008 9:03 AM

stockton red wrote...

Richard -read your post which was as interesting as usual.It's never easy being a Boro fan.You quite rightly point out that as things stand we have little chance but it is a cross that generations of Boro fans have had to bear. Let's face it we won bugger all when theoretically we did have a chance and the dice were not so loaded.

I do feel as though we should not get too downhearted about it.Even big clubs such as Arsenal lose players.This summer they have lost Flamini and Hleb and Adebayor wants out to get a monumental pay rise.

I think the club are being quite smart with their strategy of building a younger cheaper fitter faster team.This is sustainable for us.In the long run I actually think a lot of these "investors" will disappear as quickly as they came in because ultimately there is only a pot load of money to be made if you are in the champions league.

Keep the faith lad!!!

Posted by: stockton red  | July 26, 2008 1:27 PM

Mainy wrote...

Richard, by what your saying then we must start the season with turnbull, he (i believe) has less time on his contract than Jones so therefore start with Turnbull, get him noticed and maybe someone will offer cash for him before his contract ends. (that is if we are going with the feeder/selling club status).

Posted by: Mainy  | July 26, 2008 4:56 PM

Richard wrote...

Thanks Red! It's been a helluva long time since anyone called me a lad! You must be really, really old!! :)

Wrote the above piece under the influence of the amber nectar - when hackles were up and defenses were down. Bugrit has been known to be similarly inspired in the past, so fortified while listening to Norah Jones!

Never intended to be a balanced piece therefore! On this occasion, more of an indulgent rant, but giving a perspective that may stimulate further thought in other bloggers, such as your good and benevolent self.

I notice that Stewart Downing's interview in today’s Gazette online, reported by Carole Pattison, makes reference to the future in a manner consistent with the theme of my (and your) posting.

I accept, albeit reluctantly, the reality of the matter. But since when were principles always consistently aligned with practicality? Ask any politician!!

A note for new blogger - 13 year-old Dan:

You may yet be (only) 13 years old, but your opinion counts. That you are able to have views and express them so well, is good. My own preference for goalkeeper between the two would be different to yours. Jones scares me witless, as balls don’t get gathered – they bounce off him. Turnbull, as you have mentioned seems to me to have more of a dominant presence in the box. If you’ve ever watched the first 25 minutes of the video of the Steaua Bucharest UEFA Cup semi-final second leg match, you’ll see why I have misgivings about Jones. However, we can all have off days I suppose! I had one many years ago! (That’s a joke, by the way, Dan!)

Posted by: Richard  | July 26, 2008 5:13 PM

Tony P wrote...

Regards the Sorensen posts

Was it me or did i just see him playing a friendly for AV ?

Posted by: Tony P  | July 26, 2008 7:14 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

Agree about the goalie situation. The reason I applied Corporal to Jonesy is because whenever I have seen him live he merited the title. Against Nuneaton he came careering out of goal and the ball sailed over his head, against the Baggies he stood there motionless as the ball rolled into the corner of the net never quite catching the snail it was chasing. The Steaua match had slipped my memory but a Mackem client continually reminds me of his Dads Army performance.

All players have a rush of blood but keepers tend to stand out, Turnbull at Reading, Swarz at Liverpool. It isnt helped by our obsession with getting all outfield players in the six yard box, I am forever baffled how we can get so many players in such a small area and still leave someone in acres of space.

As the situation stands I would prefer Turnbull.

I read the Downing article with interest and must admit it spoke a lot of common sense. Non of us can have the brass neck to criticise someone giving it a go where he is trying to get to the highest level he can and if it doesnt work out getting a better job. As long as he gives the effort and commitment we cant complain.

Young Dan, keep posting, you may well be right about the keepers.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 27, 2008 11:17 AM

Mainy wrote...

have to laugh about the downing situation, in one article on skysports he is quoted as saying he may eventually have to move on to play chmpions league football and in the next article they link him with sunderland.

Posted by: Mainy  | July 27, 2008 3:19 PM

bugrit wrote...

I still can't help thinking that we'll go into the new season with a golden oldie goalie on the books.

Y' know, it's odd how I can think "golden oldie goalie" and I can type it as well but, for the life of me, I can't say it.

Unlike my buddy Richard, I get brief in my cups.

Posted by: bugrit  | July 27, 2008 5:55 PM

bugrit wrote...

Taciturn. I meant taciturn, not brief.

Posted by: bugrit  | July 27, 2008 6:04 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Not sure we need to be looking at Harper, Dunn or any midfielder. I believe that Tuncay should be played in the middle and not up front. Downing, Tuncay and Emnes should be definite starters leaving, O'Neil, Arca, Digard, Jinky, Shawky, et al fighting for the last position.

The Keeping position terrifies me. I think Corporal needs a new club or a loan somewhere to prove himself. If he plays, 25,000 people with bowel problems will not encourage the masses back to the Riverside!

Turnbull I doubt will make it either, he looks the part but lacks the presence to dominate his box. I still get annoyed at how easily he was pushed aside for the Bolton goal at the Riverside game at the end of last season. At this level if he hasn't learned to be a big, mouthy, pushy, intimidating bully in his own 6 yard box then I'm afraid he won't cut the mustard.

Shame really because up front we look to have a threat, Midfield looks to have a bit of pace and skill (especially with Tuncay please) and defensively we don't look too bad. This could be our best season ever on Paper but a naive goalkeeper could cost us dearly. Surely the Gate can see what we can see? Why risk everything on a whim? Spend the £4-5M on a Keeper instead of a Midfielder.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | July 27, 2008 10:12 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

The silly season is in full flow with Skysports linking Downing with a £12 million move to Sunderland. All based on Roy Keane wanting to get top players in and that Boro may be willing to let Downing go having bought Emnes.

Cant see that happening!

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 28, 2008 8:05 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Further to my earlier comment about the unlikely scenario of Downing to Sunderland it would be more likely that Liverpool may come looking as the Barry situation seems to have reached an impasse.

Many have written that Keane has gone to the scousers and hinting that it is because the Barry situation is dragging on. I dont see it that way, they received £11.5 million for Crouch, they are still lopsided, even more so now that Kewell has gone and their total left sided width relies on right footed Babbel who wants to tuck in all the time.

If the Barry transfer dies a death I wouldnt be surprised if Liverpool dont try to break Boro's resolve.

Still think Downing will be a Boro player come 1st September.

On other news it looks like Bolton are trying to get Harper. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind!

Spoke to my son last night who will hopefully be back for the Spurs game. He asked about the goalkeeping situation. Not overimpressed by the current situation.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 28, 2008 9:50 AM

JOHN ROGERS wrote...

SOUNDS LIKE STEWART DOWNINGS LATEST WRITINGS ARE A "COME AND GET ME TO THE BIG CLUBS"

IT IS NOT SURPRISING - the prospects look bleak

THE REASONS ARE PRETTY OBVIOUS -MR LAMB WAS NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE LACK OF SEASON TICKET HOLDERS LAST YEAR -HE ASSURED EVERYONE THAT THE CLASSY FOOTBALL BORO WOULD SERVE UP WOULD BRING THE CROWDS BACK RESULT A FIGHT AGAINST RELEGATION

THIS YEARS PRIZE COMMENT IS WE DON'T WANT STARS LIKE JUNINIHO BUT WE WILL RELY ON YOUTH.(GO AND ASK WHAT FANS YOU HAVE LEFT)WHY HASN'T PORRITT GOT A NUMBER?. I KNOW GARETH SOUTHGATE HAS LITTLE EXPERIENCE BUT CAN'T SOMEONE TELL HIM TO HAVE SOME LESSONS FROM ALEC FERGUSON ON MAN MANAGEMENT.

THANK YOU STEWART DOWNING FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS IN SPITE OF THE POOR MANAGEMENT YOU HAVE HAD AT BORO.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME ASK JONATHAN WOODGATE

**AV writes: Stop SHOUTING!

Posted by: JOHN ROGERS  | July 28, 2008 9:51 AM

stockton red wrote...

Don't forget everyone Gareth Southgate is being interviewed on BBC Tees tonight at 6pm.Should be worth listening to and should give us all an insight into whether we can expect any other incoming players.
John Rodgers your negative drivel is barely worthy of a response but if you actually took the trouble in reading Stewy's full interview he states he is fully committed to playing for the club this year.The suggestion is that if the club fails to progress in the next couple of years he may have to move to fulfil his personal ambitions to play at the highest club level.

Posted by: stockton red  | July 28, 2008 12:25 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

So Cat is at Wigan talking terms and medicals. Let us assume he leaves and we get our £3 million for him.

Do we go for Harper? In midfield we have the following options
left Downing, Johnson
(Centre left Downing if we want)
central Digard, Shawky, Arca
Right O'Neill, Emnes - both can move inside
Right attacking if we want to play them there Tuncay, Aliadiere
Prospects Walker, Porrit, Goulon, Owens, J Johnson, Franks etc.

Harper scored 6 goals from 41 appearances last season which is better than our midfield other than Downing. But does he excite me? No, he looked workmanlike when I saw him and at £5 million appears expensive. How would we fit him in as Gate is talking two players for every position?

I wont even start saying where the money should be spent but it is up to Gate.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 28, 2008 12:40 PM

beeline wrote...

Red - I'm sure the name Schwarzer was at the forefront of your mind when you wrote "At this level if he hasn't learned to be a big, mouthy, pushy, intimidating bully in his own 6 yard box then I'm afraid he won't cut the mustard."

Give Turnbull a chance. Bear in mind he's a young pro (in goalkeeping terms) who can only grow in confidence once established and secure of his place in the team.

Posted by: beeline  | July 28, 2008 12:49 PM

Richard wrote...

Has anyone heard if Tottenham are fielding a team this season?

With Berbatov & Keane possibly heading North-west and with four would-be Mackems possibly on their way to the North-east from White Hart Lane, are they planning to downsize their team bus?

If so, Woodgate might actually have to do some actual running this year!

Or are we about to see a huge amount of money being offered late on in the pre-season preps to try to prise the likes of Downing away?

It could be an interesting line up at the Riverside on 16 August......at both ends!

Posted by: Richard  | July 28, 2008 2:21 PM

Lee wrote...

I think it is a dead cert that Turnbull is going to start as no 1. I think the crowd would be more willing to give the lad a chance and have a bit more patience with him to let him find his feet. Whereas with Jones, I think no matter how well he performs, the crowd will be waiting for that first mistake and once it happens will be straight on his back. As far as who is going to be in GS main 11 , I hope Tuncay is part of that, I get the impression he was GS whipping boy last season. I think he could play a massive role this year if given the chance.

Posted by: Lee  | July 28, 2008 2:59 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Richard at 2.21pm: good point! I suppose most Spurs fans, full of enthusiasm following their League Cup win last season, looking hopefully at European participation this coming season, and with an overseas manager with a successful pedigree behind him - well, they must have been desperate for football to start in earnest.

They must have been wondering how the manager might tinker with the team, maybe improving the squad by replacing this fringe player with that undoubted class international, so the club could take the next step forward. I don't suppose they thought Ramos would take a meat cleaver to the squad.

I wouldn't want to intrude too far into personal grief (one of the regulars in the Local is a Spurs fan), but although I could see how getting rid of Berbatov might make sense, it is difficult to justify the sale of Keane unless the money is already earmarked for an earth-shattering purchase which has been progressing in the background without anyone having an inkling.

Keane seems Spurs through and through, and a consistent performer for years. You could imagine him continuing to score regularly for several seasons to come. Maybe the "new Pele" or the "new Maradonna" is about to be unveiled?

Certainly one could see it might be difficult for Berbatov to remain at Spurs, though I would have been surprised at a move to Old Trafford. He is undoubtedly very skilful but class alone isn't enough for Sir Alex, for whom 100% effort is the starting point. His teams don't carry passengers on the off-chance that, every so often, a touch of magic will turn a game. Magic isn't so rare at Old Trafford.

I had assumed Berbatov, who clearly wants away, would be going abroad. Could he now stay? Replacing both forwards at the same time, with players of quality, won't be easy. And if half the squad is going to end up at Sunderland, this cannot have been the sort of advancement expected by Woody when he negotiated his move to White Hart Lane.

There is a lot to be said for gradual evolution rather than drastic revolution. Of course Ramos might surprise us all, and he comes with a track record that deserves respect and some time to "get it right", which gives him an advantage over GS who is having to prove himself, and might only have this year to do it.

I hope GS proves all of the doubters wrong. I am sure all on this blog would be happy to eat their words if, for example, Turnbull blossoms into a keeper exuding confidence so the defence can give us at least a point for the forwards to improve upon.

But I agree with some others who have referred to quotes from the manager about "lessons to be learned" about conceding injury time goals etc. What I would like is not to hear "we will learn lessons from that...", but instead to see evidence on the field that the faults have been put right. Words are easy. Actions speak louder.

And when did professional footballers, rich talented ones many of whom are international players, really NEED to be told that it is important to concentrate not only for 90 minutes but for however long after that until the final whistle has been blown? We can all make mistakes. We should not, however, keep making the same mistakes.

Still....we could be Spurs fans.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | July 29, 2008 12:13 AM

Redcar Red wrote...

Beeline, deep down I hope Turnbull makes it but I also hope he reads this blog and takes the point.

Next time a Kevin Nolan or similar is jostling in front of him, stand on his foot making sure his studs twist as it goes down on his metatarsals and let him know you're not an innocent who can be intimidated and then shoved out of the way. Make a ruckus and make sure the Referee has to wade in and sort it out, when play restarts he will be watching like a hawk and just waiting to blow for a push on the Keeper.

Hope he takes a note out of Schmeicel's, Jenning's, Shilton's, Southall's etc. book and becomes "The Keeper" of his area rather than just a stand in.

Good example for Turnbull (and Jones!) is Joe Corrigan, he struggled early on in his career and took a bit of stick but eventually became one of the best in the business proving all his doubters wrong.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | July 29, 2008 8:30 AM

John Powls wrote...

I see the gobbing Senegalese is going to The Mackems. Good - they just about deserve eachother.

Just like King Kev welcoming back the prodigal son - yet again - for a short spell before his next prison sentence.

AV - it suddenly struck me and Phil that one player we saw neither hide nor hair of in The Algarve was Riggs, unlike some others who were there and didn't play through injury.

Some rumours around today that Boro may be trying to hijack others' attempts to sign Bougherra from Charlton.

I know we've been linked before and this is the silly season but this wouldn't be another 'one in, one out' deal would it? Stoke back in for Riggs?

Or am I just being Boronoid again?

**AV writes: I think Riggs had a shin injury from training before the York game so didn't travel to Portugal. Should be OK for tonight at Carlisle though.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 29, 2008 9:11 AM

Lagos Loon wrote...

As about the only person in this most populous city in Africa (circa 15-18 million, depending who's counting) that doesn't support Manchelarsepool (nice one Richard) you cannot believe the stick I get from being a Boro supporter.
Anyway, being a "bush boy" I don't profess to know the finer points of the game, but can somebody answer a question for me? Gate stated prior to the Algarve trip:- "What we will start to do is introduce some team play and some principles of what we want to do as the week goes on".
There have only been two new signings and the guys that have left weren't exactly fixtures in the team (Skippy apart), so have they all had knocks on the head on their holidays and are suffering from amnesia? Have they forgotten all the previous seasons work? Either that or we're going to see some radical new system that will take the Prem. by storm. Here's hoping!!

No Wahala.

Posted by: Lagos Loon  | July 29, 2008 9:35 AM

tim from sa wrote...

Looks like Sorenson is at Stoke training now. Has Catts signed for Wigan yet anybody know.

Posted by: tim from sa  | July 29, 2008 11:29 AM

chris wrote...

Unknown newzealand left back international playing in oz on trial at boro apparently ...possibly going to give the kids competition for a place so it says...lol ....we are going backwards....Tony Lochead.....26

Posted by: chris  | July 29, 2008 12:49 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Read boats farewell message with great interest. Always admired the blokes commitment to the cause, the years just seem to have taken the edge off his game and doesnt have the football skills to compensate like say a Scholes - though Boats skills are at a level most of us cannot comprehend from our background of Sunday morning soccer.

He made a salient point about rotation creating problems in the dressing room. That was when we were playing 60+ games a season.

So lets pick our 'starting squad' and see who will have their noses pushed out of joint. Assume everyone is fit. This just my interpretation of what may happen with the players available.

Two goalies leaves 14 outfield players to fit in.

Pogo is skipper and nailed on.
Young, Wheats the same. Huth/Taylor is the back four sorted.

Downing a certainty in midfield, Digard, Emnes and O'Neill likely starters.

Alves up front. That leaves another starter probably out of Aliadiere, Tuncay and Mido dependent on the formation with the others on the bench.

Leaves two places on the bench for Taylor/Huth, Arca, Shawky, Riggott, McMahon, Bates, Craddock, Johnson, Walker, Porritt, Grounds, Owens, Franks etc.

That is why Boat and Cat can go. The areas where we are weaker are in goal (though one of the incumbents may come good) and a playmaker in central midfield.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 29, 2008 12:50 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Thanks for the info about Riggs. I guess we can forget about the Bougherra rumour and the 'one in, one out' link.

Talking about 'one in, one out' - can Gate really be about to take on a New Zealand left back (albeit, just on trial on the recommendation of someone he met on the pro-licence events)?

Is this the priority when resources and time to conclude deals are tight? What about a creative right sided midfielder or a goalie, for goodness sake?

And look at the rationale quoted - 'Boro have a couple of young left backs who need to be pushed in their development by someone more experienced.'

Why doesn't that logic apply to Turnbull and The Corporal? Maybe Gate thinks they have had enough 'pushing' by Schwarz.

And where does that leave 'one in, one out'? Does it mean that either Tayls or Grounds is going out on loan or transfer if the New Zealander stays?

Or is Gate looking to shed somewhere else in the squad to accommodate a third (fourth, if you count Pogi) left back?

Can 3 or 4 left backs in a squad of 20 senior outfield players - which is what Gate said he was aiming at - make sense in terms of balance and cover?

This leaves me scratching my head in puzzlemant.

I suppose one inference must be that Gate is seeing Pogi as a centre back pure and simple for this season. On the basis of his performances that's clearly sensible.

Since he's also the Captain - and on the basis of his form - the presumtion must be that he's going to play unless his form dips disastrously.

That leaves the Redcar Rock, the Berlin Wall and Riggs contesting one slot - and that's without counting in the likes of Williams and Hines.

Going right back to the start - this surely has to render the Bougherra rumour even dafter but it doesn't preclude Riggs or even Robert Huth moving on.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 29, 2008 1:04 PM

Richard wrote...

Forever Dormo:
No sooner has the last key bounced back on the keyboard than Jermaine Defoe wades in with his threepence worth on the Spurs thing! Clock this - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3881322,00.html

Reading it also made me realise I'd forgotten to include (duh!) Paul Robinson in the exodus from White Hart Lane, in my earlier posting.

Posted by: Richard  | July 29, 2008 1:38 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Listened to radio 5 on the way back into the office.

Talking to a journo from News of the World about transfers. The guy was essentially an expert on Liverpool. When asked if the Barry deal was dead he stated no but it was smelling a bit. The boards view was that they had to sell Alonso to finance Barry penny for penny. The debate in Liverpool was whether Barry was better than Alonso and it was split down the middle.

The more pressing thing was that Liverpool desparately needed width and have done for several years. I go back to my previous postings, expect Rafa to test Boro's resolve over Downing.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 29, 2008 2:02 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Richard and Forever Dormo

Like you I keep thinking that Spurs might turn up with a virtually new squad, and I keep hoping that they won't have bedded in and still need further time to settle. Looks like they might be going to get Bentley, too.....

But then they go and beat Norwich 5-1 in a friendly, with Darren Bent scoring 4 of them! So it's currently looking less like a gamble on Ramos' part!

On another matter, just read the article by Uncle Eric on tbe Boat. Absolute class! The bit about "I like to earn my wages every week" is typical Boateng and says it all about him. I never saw him give less than 100%. Thanks George, and good luck.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | July 29, 2008 2:15 PM

chris wrote...

Just anounced cattermole has completed his transfer......so now we wait and see and hope it's not Harper...

Posted by: chris  | July 29, 2008 2:21 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

I'm not too concerned about the GK situation or the failure to sign a creative central midfielder.

What I'm really concerned about is the lack of cover at left back.

We've only got Pogi, Taylor, Grounds and Arca who are recognised left backs. So if Boro suffer an outbreak of left-foot and mouth then we may be forced to play Downing or Jinky in this position (should they survive the outbreak)

So come on Gareth, address this potential 'weakness' in the squad and try to sign another left back ASAP - hopefully you can find someone with no premier league experience so that he wouldn't expect to actually play a game.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | July 29, 2008 2:26 PM

Cunners wrote...

tim from sa:

According to Wigans official site, yes he has signed. No transfer amount is on there though.

http://www.wiganlatics.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10429~1353481,00.html

Posted by: Cunners  | July 29, 2008 2:53 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

Redcar Red, I sincerely hope that Turnbull, and Jones, do not read this blog - their confidence will be shot to pieces before the first whistle!!

I appreciate a blog is the place to enjoy a wide range of opinion, but cinicism (even under the influence of the "amber nectar"), manager mistrust ("How is it that only GS can't see what the rest of us know for a fact?") and character defamation (Corporal Jones? what?!!) is surely is going over the top over our own players/manager isn't it?

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | July 29, 2008 5:02 PM

Mrs Elsie Cattermole wrote...

Our Lee has asked me to say ta-raa to the Boro fans.
He doesn't have time to do this as he he moving into little Micky's gaff in Cheshire for a few weeks before he also signs for Wigan.
I think Wigan are certs for Europe now, dont you?
Our Lee hopes to open a chain of Parmo shops in the North West in the next 2 years. He says you are welcome to come and buy one if you are in the area. He says that he will give you up to 15 pence off a parmo and chips if you reveal yourself to be a Boro fan.
Love Elsie and Lee

Posted by: Mrs Elsie Cattermole  | July 29, 2008 6:00 PM

Ken wrote...

Local derby matches should be interesting this year...

AV - I will give you freely my article title:

"Sunderland Sign Sadistic Senegalese Spitter"

and will eagerly await the Gazette's take on that transfer.

**AV writes: If he has joined the Deckchairs if will be "Mackems Masochistic Marksman"

Posted by: Ken  | July 29, 2008 7:18 PM

steve turnbull wrote...

Redcar Red,I have just spoken to Ross Turnbulls mam and she has promised to pass your comment on to him.
She tells me he wears size 12 boots so he shouldnt MISS!

Posted by: steve turnbull  | July 29, 2008 8:08 PM

spalfie wrote...

ive never looked forward to a season as much as this for years. with all the money the clubs around us are spending, its nice to feel like the underdogs again. to me thats what the town is "the underdog" voted worse place to live in the uk, but we know its got loads going for it and thats how the team have always been (except the last 7 or so years, in which they were just dull). entertainment wise this is the best team weve probably had. win,lose or draw. i reckon this season gonna be fun. dont worry about the goal keeper and all that build from the back buisness, okay it helps grind out results, but if boro keep grinding out results there will only be one man and his dog watching. if we go down, so what! some of my best boro memories are from championship-1st division football and we get to see them come back up again. if the team playes well and challanges for a few cups and europe then even better. im just happy to see them playing better football than the mclaren days.

Posted by: spalfie  | July 29, 2008 9:48 PM

Billy in Berks wrote...

Boronoia? They were giving the results of last night's friendlies on TalkSport this morning, even mentioning that Leeds failed to beat Darlo. Did they mention Boro's win at Carlisle?
You're joking aren't yer...

Posted by: Billy in Berks  | July 30, 2008 8:43 AM

John Powls wrote...

Good result at Carlisle last night and by the limited accounts I've seen, a better performance too.

Good to see Gate's pre-season friendly plan unfolding and the starting line up and formation against Spurs beginning to take shape.

Pleased to see Aliadiere notch again and Digard to open his account with a rocket.

With the move of Keane and Bentley likely soon to follow the transfer market may now burst into action.

We'll need to remain vigilant for moves on Stewie, Luke Young, Johnno etc but with the Catts money - and with the attention seemingly shifted from Harper - what about our creative right sided midfielder?

Last season's target, Malbranque is clearly available again and has been given the ultimatum by Kean-o. We must know the price The Mackems were quoted.

Could we not test whether his hesitation is about moving out of London per se (as it seemed to be last year) or whether he just doesn't fancy Mackem-on-Liffey?

Another alternative might be Benayoun from The Scousers. He seems to be priced around the mark that we were being asked for Harper and they need to raise money fast to support their bid for Barry.

In helping them get Barry we also get them off the trail of Stewie as an alternative.

Come on The Count! Silent but deadly again, please.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 30, 2008 9:54 AM

chris wrote...

Ok 4 games played no clean sheets against generally far inferior opposition does this not say something?

3.5 MILLION GOALKEEPER NOW PLEASE!!!!

Sorry Vic had to shout i am further away than most....lol

Posted by: chris  | July 30, 2008 10:53 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

What's all this about a creative right-sided midfielder? I hope this doesn't get as dull as the clamouring for a goalkeeper. We obviously aren't going to sign anyone for the right-hand side when we have O'Neil, Aliadiere, Emnes and Johnson who can all play there.

I reckon we could have made our last signing now if he really has cooled on Harper.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | July 30, 2008 11:04 AM

Si wrote...

Hello Vic, and everyone else. Long time no write...

The 'keeper situation bothers me, I won't pretend it doesn't. Even more so that Sorensen's probably now on his way to Stoke, and Carson & Robinson have moved on already. Still, Turnbull did just fine when called upon last year - maybe he deserves his chance?

I should also stick a tribute to the Boat on my own site soon. Yes, he was in decline, but you could never underestimate his importance to the squad. Although I can't help wondering if he would have stayed as influential as he had been during '04-'06 if he hadn't been made captain?

Catts is due one too, if only for the tears, the UEFA Cup run and the commitment.

Also - do you really think Mido has anything left to offer us? What's to bet that he won't go down the same road he did last winter again? That said, we've seen how good he can be, and he has lost weight, so let's give him a chance. And there'll no more weight jokes from me (I hope)...

Finally, heard some of the Carlisle match on Boro World. All I can say is, no disrespect to Gary and Paul but it's good to have Ali back.

Posted by: Si  | July 30, 2008 1:47 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Pat Mc

Sadly the nicknames and monikers that come up on this site are normally due to the actions of players.

Midough (wish I had thought of that one) was derived from his shape or as he replied to his wife - 'I am in shape, round is a shape!'.

JP came up with Tippy Tappy Twins because of the way they tended to play.

Pogo became mad dog by dint of his own actions, as did Quedrue become Cranky.
Clattermole was self explanatory.
Redcar Rock and Jinky Johnson are reflections of the way they play.

Swarz became Scissorhands because of his handling.

Jones was nicknamed Bad Jones before Corporal was applied. These came about after the season ended and can in no way be the cause of his discomfort on the pitch, they are merely a reflection on his past performances. I recommend you look at some of the articles written by journalists elsewhere in this paper for any potential reduction in confidence rather than a message board where people have banter.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 30, 2008 2:43 PM

David Morrison wrote...

i cant see downing going for less than 20 million and the scousers have blown nearly 30 already this summer they have nowt left unless alonso is shipped out. we have nearly allways got good money for players who rocked the boat, ravanelli, juninho and ziege spring to mind plus the yak last year. i cant see downing going this summer maybe if he starts the season well then in january one of the top 4 might have a dabble depending on champions league position etc.. i would have liked to see downing been given the chance inside in a friendly and jinky on the left to see what fruits that may have bared. not as an out and out centre midfielder but just roaming and taking the ball off digard and linking up with alves alliadier etc... he could have more of an influence in games and give a better balance.

COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | July 30, 2008 2:49 PM

dave connor wrote...

Well the season has not started and we can see already who the moaners will be week in and week out no matter what the BORO do.

Lets analyse the goal keeper. Schwatzer had a charmed life here. He was not the greatest goalkeeper but gave good service and in my own opinion (as a former keeper myself) he should have went two years ago, because he was on decline.

I personally would give Turnbull his chance, the reason I say this is because Jones has been here 8 years and even when he has come in he has not looked confident enough or imposing. It is no good talking about what might have been by signing other keepers. (Carson and Robinson)have both played in the premiership, but they both have made numerous mistakes that have cost them their place at their previous clubs. So who is to say that those mistakes do not come with them here.

Mr Southgate has made a decision and I stand by him. A goalkeeper will only get better if he plays with a defence regular, so come on give the lad a chance (mind having said that who is to say that GS might suddenly change his mind and put Jones in.

GS has now done his "clear-out" I think and he has his own mind made up for his first team, so we must give them the chance to play. he does have several options for the right side of midfield now, and my own personal opinion is that Harper is not worth 5.5 million, we have better here at the present time. After his showing in the EURO games, surely Tuncay will be played in his correct position he was a revelation.

I will be home for the first game and I cant wait for the season to start, the squad is taking shape and augers well for the future UP THE BORO

Posted by: dave connor  | July 31, 2008 4:05 AM

John Powls wrote...

BoroPhil

If you look at any of the postings on the subject of a creative right sided midfield player - which stretch back over two years on this blog - you'll see that the type of player referred to is not the type you quote that we've already got.

Hell, don't go back that far, just look at the couple of examples I quoted above - Malbranque and Benayoun and add the other one that was rumoured, David Dunn.

These are types of players who can pick a pass to unlock a defence, dribble and run through the centre at the heart of a defence and get a goal or two.

In other words better, more effective, right footed version of Arca. Or a better, more effective version of the departed half of The Tippy-Tappy Twins.

Of the examples you quote, O'Neil has played on the right but is more likely to end up doing box to box in the middle, Aliadiere is a sort of striker who may be converted to play wide right if he can't be fitted in elsewhere, Johnno is a left winger who is hugely less effective on the right and Emnes can play wide right but looks more likely, from what I've seen, to be better as the right hand side of a front three (so not unlike Aliadiere).

Harper - if he was to be still in the frame - is out of the same stable as O'Neil and Digard. Even his mum (and we'll doubtless get a posting from her later) wouldn't describe him as having the ability to unlock a defence with a pass.

From my observation of Alves he seems to be the sort of striker who isn't going to challenge for Andy Gray style headers to get his goals.

If he scores from crosses at all it seems more likely that it will be from cut backs or from drilled, lower crosses into the so-called 'zone of uncertainty'.

He seems to prefer to run onto a clever slipped pass down the side of or between the centre backs or inside the full backs or an equally clever short, angled ball into the space behind the back four that he can straight run onto.

If we're to make the most of his abilities and the £12m investment we made I, for one, am suggesting that we need a player who can deliver that sort of service.

Currently, we don't have such, unless - as some folks do - you count Arca. But I don't see Arca giving us what we need in that area often enough and well enough to make up for the downsides of his game.

But even if you count Arca, there is still a case to be made to have the better, right footed version too.

Gate has done well so far, I think, in shaping the new squad so that in the group of twenty or so senior outfield players he will be working with he has got cover and alternatives for all the roles.

Except for the one in question here.

That why the clamour.

Sorry, if you find it boring.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 31, 2008 8:52 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Boro Phil

I tend to agree that we may well have seen the end of transfer activity unless someone suddenly comes available now the big boys are starting to move in the market.

Bringing Digard and Emnes in for pre season was good business, we should see the best of Alves, the return of Mido, Huth, McMahon is, in manager speak, like 'three new signings'. I suspect Gate is relatively happy with his squad.

But as I said in the first paragraph the big boys are now moving players around and we dont know who will become available.

We could do with a Rocky replacement, rephrase that, we could with someone who can pick a pass like Rocky without the other bits that so infuriated us at times. But that may happen within the squad as someone blossoms in a different role.

I think it is all quiet on the Riverside front for the moment. Lets hope Lpool and Spurs keep away from Stewie.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | July 31, 2008 9:28 AM

jiffy wrote...

Johnson does not impress me.

He may have done exceptionally well at Watford and certainly they fell away sharply after he returned to Boro but he did not carry that through when chances came to him back here. In cup games against lesser opposition he looked frankly way out of his depth - one would have expected more confidence after his spell at watford but he looked way below the player we saw glimpses of in our Uefa games.

Personally I would have accepted any offer for him and kept Cattermole as more likely to progress.

He will get his chance this season and this time he has to step up. Downing achieved a very rare feat last season of being ever-present in the Premiership so he is unfortunately long overdue for a spell out injured (not wishing that upon him but speaking statistically)- his full season even more remarkable when you consider he is very much a marked man for opposition defenders so you might expect the odd crunching challenge to put him on the injured list - when it happens lets hope it is not a serious knock.

Also Emnes threat from the right might give the left side more room this season as we pose a major threat from both flanks making it harder for defences to double up against the left winger as much.

Posted by: jiffy  | July 31, 2008 11:55 AM

Stevo wrote...

Totally agree with DM post above regards accomodating the Jink in the same 11 as Downing. Downing to me seems moro bolo zenden in his play than an out and out flying winger - so his intelligent play may well be devastating as a roaming link up man in midfield - leaving the Jink to bombard down the wing as he does rather spectacularly. Plus there is always the option to switch positions during the game to confuse the opposition. It would be a shame to lose a talent like Johnson simply because we are spoilt for choice (....at the moment).

Posted by: Stevo  | July 31, 2008 12:52 PM

chris wrote...

Omg the management team at Boro have lost the plot....they all agree with Gareth and he say....

"Middlesbrough boss Gareth Southgate has underlined his faith in Ross Turnbull and Brad Jones by insisting neither Paul Robinson nor Scott Carson are better than either of them. "

So now he see's them as worth 3.5 million each and capable of playing at a higher level than any of the supporters have ever seen....i can see a lot of humble pie coming on ....not to mention chants at home games when it all goes pear shaped.

Posted by: chris  | July 31, 2008 1:25 PM

John Powls wrote...

Hmmmm...

Johnno's comments are - unsurprisingly -being written up as 'come and get me'.

Difficult position. You can't drop Stewie to accommodate him and we don't want Stewie out injured - Johnno's coming on but he's not the finished article yet and he's not Stewie; he could play on the right wing but, to me, he's less effective there.

It would still be worth - in my view - giving it a go with Johnno on the wing and Stewie inside one in the old Bolo role to see if that could be valuable on occasion, either to start a game or as a tactical switch during a game.

I'd rather he stayed and fought for a place, but if none of that works and Johnno doesn't want to be mostly benchwarming then a loaner is preferable to losing him.

If it's a loaner then Rangers have expressed an interest.

It would give Johnno the experience of a big club, a good side and more European football and the coaching there under Walter Smith et al is sure to be helpful to his development.

It also means it doesn't favour any of our Prem rivals.

Also interested in Gate's view that we're a couple of senior players short in the squad and that he wants one more in in midfield, if they can be got.

I hope he doesn't still mean Harper but I'm pretty sure he does.

At the risk of boring BoroPhil again on goalies, I think that Gate taking a position that he, Pearsy and all the rest of the coaches believe that Turnbull and The Corporal are better than Carson and Robinson (and by extension, Friedel, Sorenson, Niemi and others on the move or about to be) stretches credibility.

You may believe they have the potential to be - as he seems to say when he says the established ones only get that way because they got given their chance - but they're not at the moment.

He cites their ages and what they've done on loan. Well, sorry, but the loan spells did not cover either in glory or lead to bids being made to take them permanently.

He cites The Corporal's international experience. Well, yes, but that was spookily like his position at Boro. He only got in when Schwarz was unfit and then produced some glaring errors that cost the team.

As to their ages; well, the fact that The Corporal is 26 and has been at Boro for what is it - 8 years? - and in all that time has failed to do anything to seriously challenge Schwarz for his place - even under Gate and even when Schwarz's form took a dip - says a lot.

He also says that if we'd bought a keeper in one of the two would have left. So?

It would have been instructive to see - in a pre-season where so many Prem teams are after new goalies because they know how important the position and role is - quite how many Prem or even Championship sides would have been knocking Gate's door down to put in offers.

The issue can't be price either. With demand for goalies high the transfer fees have been very reasonable - even for those, like Boro, on limited budgets.

And does Gate think that the reason that 'everyone he meets' wants to talk about goalies (and not, presumably about sticking with those we've got) is based on some collective madness and not people relying on the evidence of their own eyes?

He mentions the Mackems experience in the case of The Corporal. Well, OK, let's give him that one - painful though it is to lose desperately needed points to your most deadly rival. But what about all the other times?

Ian often recalls a game we were both at at The Hawthorns and the one against Nuneaton. I was, sadly, present at Highbury for the part he played in the ignominious 7-0.

However, it is clear that Gate has made up his mind and won't be shifted from the major and unnecessary risk that he's taken on. And it's his risk to take because it's his head on the block, particularly because he's put himself so far out on a limb.

So - and in this I agree with BoroPhil - it's pointless to go on about it and I shan't after this.

I can only hope that Gate starts with Turnbull and gives him a reasonable run. He at least has the physique to dominate his box and if he shows himself to have the ability and can develop the presence to go with it that will come with confidence he may become what we need him to be if we're to improve on our ability to defend set pieces and corners and reduce our goals conceded.

If he's put in the position then the lad needs and deserves our support and he'll get it from me.

Posted by: John Powls  | July 31, 2008 2:09 PM

Neil (USA) wrote...

A few observations as the season approaches...
1) GS wasn't bluffing about the keepers. In an SSN article GS explains that he and all of his staff (including Pears) did not rate Carson, Robinson or Sorenson better than what we have.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11680_3890942,00.html

A manager saying one thing and sticking to it...unheard of! It's up to Jones and/or Turnbull to repay Southgate's faith in them because this will either be the shrewdest managerial decision of Boro's history or the biggest managerial blunder of Boro's history.

2) We may not get any new players coming in...
Mixed messages from Southgate on this. On the on hand he has said that he wants a couple of old heads brought in to add experience to our youthful squad, but I've also read that he wants a smaller squad, and the rumor mill is very quiet concerning Boro. I'd still like to see us bid for Michael Bradley. He sounds like the sort of attacking central midfielder we haven't had for a while...maybe Tuncay (when not in goal) will play there?

3. Will we recognize the Spurs side that comes to the Riverside on opening day? Half of them seem to have joined Sunderland...as long as Bentley doesn't curl in another late winner. I'm still having nightmares about that shot from last season's opening day.

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | July 31, 2008 2:36 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

Ian, no problem with nicknames at all. On the contrary, because in general they are humorous, and they connect players with the fans, just as we all have nicknames for our mates. Imaginative names like Clattermole, Redcar Rock, Berlin Wall and Jinky Johnson are terms of endearment. I’m sure the players will be informed of their nicknames and will appreciate them. Derogatory nicknames however will not be so welcome and may have a negative effect, especially on the younger players.

Nicknames or not, the whole point of my last post is that I believe the criticism over Gareth’s decision to go with Turnbull or Jones has been taken too far. I too have reservations with the manager’s decision but he must have good grounds for making it, and it seems as though it is final. That said, we all need to positively support the two keepers otherwise a section of the fans will crucify them after one mistake. Is that what we want?

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | July 31, 2008 7:10 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Pat Mc

Forgot to add in my post that I hope the fans give Gate and the players a chance. Banter on the relative privacy of the message boards should never translate into boos at the Riverside.

There will be people in the crowd who will get on players backs at the slightest excuse, doesnt help at all.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | August 1, 2008 12:39 PM

Mainy wrote...

Hmmm reports today are Fulham dont want to keep Jimmy Bullard past the end of his contract, I'm thinking forget Harper and spend half the Clattermole money on Jimmy Bullard.

Posted by: Mainy  | August 1, 2008 6:53 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

Mainy, Yes I totally agree with making a move for Bullard.

I suggested last week that we drop the pursuit of Harper and switch our attention to Bullard as he's got a better overall game and his drive and experience could be vital in games when we need a to push on.

OK, at 29 he'll probably be looking for a 4 year deal and will probably cost £3-4m.

In the past with our squad profile this could have been more of a risk - but we have enough options in the squad now to sign players who offer something different to what we have rather than buy someone like Harper who isn't much different to O'Neil.

So I hope Boro make a serious move sooner rather than later - though if there's a better option for a passing midfielder then I'll be happy to be surprised - but we need one more signing (other than the one we are not allowed to mention anymore)

Posted by: Werdermouth  | August 2, 2008 9:55 AM

David Morrison wrote...

Thanks stevo.

I think we have an abundance of attacking talent this year and we cant play all of them thats for sure. The key is accomodating players that are playing well and working for the team. Downing gives 100% but I'd love to see him and Jinky working together and causing havoc down the left with Young and either Emnes or Aliadiere down the right.

The main thing is we cant leave Alves isolated up front. The friendlies show he doesnt like the ball 30 yards away for him to run into channels, we need him ball to feet so he can turn and shoot or over the top so he can run onto ( ala man utd)

I think playing Jinky and Downing could give alves more space and have Tuncay roaming as well making it a more 4 1 3 1 1 formation. the option it gives is that if players interchange positions throughout the game it is impossible to mark therefore a more rigid 4 4 2 can be pulled around.

I