Keegan Blast At Big Club Stitch Up
"CHEER UP Kevin Keegan
What can it mean
To a sad Geordie realist
And a trapped football team".
Eternal optimist Kevin Keegan has spoken a great truth: that the Big Four have the Premier League stitched up like a kipper and that even with sustained spending "the eighth biggest club in the world" are still light years away from catching them. How does he think we feel?
Keegan is emotional honest and I like him for that. Such openness may well be a chink in his psychological armour and a trait that is widely ridiculed - "I'd love it" etc - but it is a shaft of light in a murky world and should be encouraged. That honesty has now helped illuminated the dark reality of the Premiership: it is a pay-to-play game rigged in favour of the elite Champions League quadropoly and the rest have no chance in a boring league with no competitive balance.
Speaking after Newcastle were brushed aside 2-0 by Chelsea at St James' Park the now world weary supremo cut right through the spin that surrounds the greatest league in the world with a clinical analysis of the political and economic paralysis that has made it a moribund set-up devoid of drama, competition or the possibility of change.
He described the effects of a decade of sustained spending that has created a 'Premier League within the Premier League' made the Big Four untouchable and, more depressingly, the glass ceiling that prevents even a club with Newcastle considerable financial muscle having any realistic ambitions of ever breaking the shackles they now find themselves in. Fifth is the best even the most ambitious challengers can dream of.
I could have written that any time over the past decade (and I have, many times, believe me) - but I am a dangerous radical, a doom-monger, a sentimental nostalgist looking backwards to a mythical golden age, a Luddite, a powerless samizdat propagandist swamped by super soaraway sizzling small screen satellite soccer, a naive idealist on a fruitless quest to restore the quaint Corinthian notion of equality of opportunity that underpins any sporting endeavour. When I say it, it is just webzine whinging.
But when a current manager, and the manager of a club with genuine financial muscle and aspirations to make the ever more elusive breakthrough, says it then it is dynamite. Keegan's statements, and they were deeply considered, articulate and compelling arguments and not just an emotive discharge, is an important break from the dug-out protocol that promotes the collective lie that the Premier League's lifeblood - TV cash - is good for the game. It isn't.
He has outlined the bleak reality that most 'small' club supporters long ago recognised. That a normally upbeat manager from one of the league's most overtly ambitious second tier sides has gone public on his personal frustration at banging his head against the fortifications of cash is a sign of the growing discontent at the distortion of a once great game.
The money has killed the game as a spectacle. It has concentrated the key resources, players, support and political and economic power in the hands of ever fewer hands. It has created a Big Four juggernaut that is far too intimately entwined with the broadcasters, which has neutered the power of the Football Association and which has crushed any notion that the game is for the mug punters who pay to watch it in stadiums. It has created a cynical industry geared entirely to opening new revenue streams and in which the big brands are cemented at the top.
Keegan is right. The Premier League IS boring. We knew in August which four teams would hog the Champions League trough. We knew which team was definitely going down and we knew broadly which five or six others would be battling to avoid joining them. The rest of the season is just jockeying for position in the unseemly squabble over the crumbs from the top table.
Unless there is a political revolt against this institutional imbalance the game as we know it - a competition between two broadly matched teams in a contest where the dramatic tension comes from the fact that the outcome is unpredictable - will be dead.
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Anthony Vickers
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We have been posting about this for years, the major change is that the demise of Toon and Leeds just changed the numbers from big six to big four and this was driven and has become cemented by the Champions - or anyone the broadcasters/UEFA like - League having four places for English clubs.
There is not the political will for change amongst the big clubs and UEFA. The rest of us dont want to rock the boat because whilst our trough isnt golden like the the one the big boys get their snouts and trotters into, it is better to get stuck into their scraps than scavenge in the wilderness outside the premiership.
When the 39th match was mooted and aroused righteous indignation my thoughts turned to Indian cricket. The rebel twenty20 competition was lambasted by the authorities only to be replaced by the IPL. The ECB turned its snooty nose up and is now trying to come up with a similar proposal.
Once the money men at UEFA and FIFA have had a bit of navel gazing we may well find that there is some form of Platinum trough developed for the elite clubs.
Dont forget the current Champions League format grew out of the intentions of G14 clubs to set up their own league and UEFA placating them.
What I know is that supporting Boro in the Prem for the past decade or so, I've reached a point where finishing in the inevitable 12-15th 'zone' is boring, whether thats linked to the issue of the 'big four' operating a 'cartel' or not I'm not sure.
From my perspective as a Boro supporter I can't see anything stopping us achieving the level of league success which we have never achieved before, ie a run of several seasons in the 5-10th zone, which would be far more exciting than the mundane existence we have had to put up with in recent years.
Our cup 'successes' have papered over what I believe is consistent under-achievement in the league.
Keegan is right in what he says, but its not going to change, we either live with it or follow another sport.
Its not just a case of the big four dominating because of the Champions League, they dominate because of SKY cash too. In fact their domination extends to Europe now, three out of four champions league semi-finalists shows that.
If change is to come it will be driven by the likes of Milan, Bayern and Real Madrid being cheesed off because there are four teams in England buying the worlds best players.
My perspective is that the Prem doesn't have to be boring, I wouldn't be 'bored' if Boro were in the top 5-10 places regularly, with the possibility of winning one of three cups once in a while.
I never thought I'd ever hear myself say it, but , "Today Matthew, I support Kevin Keegan."
Keegan's a self-made, independent, "own man" and doesn't need the Ashley money of this world to define him.
He's not vulnerable. And can therefore speak the truth - when it suits his purpose. His honesty is to be supported, but don't let us kid ourselves, it's not "Saint" Kevin that's talking! It's the Messiah, come to St James' Park to bring success to the club. And Keegan's take on the Premier League is just as we've all been posting here for months - years even.
Only now, because it's interfering seriously with his club's ambitions (just like the rest of us) he's reached the point, just as we had a long time ago, of realising it's impact on the future of "his" plaything.
I welcome Keegan's candid expression of the facts.
If others in similar positions would start to make similar waves, perhaps it might accelerate progress towards a new order.
However, I'm not holding my breath!
Because Keegan's a manager - a salaried employee of the owner. And it's the owners who have the money and therefore, the power to make change. And while that remains so, and while the established "order", however repugnant to those of a more sporting purist persuasion, continues to make money for them, strokes their over-sized egos and panders to their power-tripping, there will be little incentive for them to change.
The only thing that will force change will be a full-scale fans revolt and withdrawal of support from every quarter. And that's not going to happen - because it doesn't matter as much to many people as it does to others.
Some people are principled. Others have to feel the impact on their personal wealth or some other threat before action is taken. Keegan's a mixture, because he's getting older, more mature, and can afford to say it.
I'm sure a part of him is concerned for the game as a whole however, and not just his inability to take a Premier League trophy back to St James's.
I'll be interested to see what kind of reaction there is from "the establishment" to Keegan's comments and for how long he remains in the Newcastle manager's job.
Because it's not fashionable for a manager to admit to impossibility or high improbability of target achievement.
It demonstrates reservations in his targeted thinking and therefore hints at something less than a preparedness to give 100% in it's pursuit! (Compare this with Shinawatra, Sven and Manchester City currently. “Same, same, Khun Shinawatra!�)
But what a breath of fresh air!
For once, Kevin, I'm on your side!
Name Kevin Keegan
Occupation Football manager
Specialist subject - The Bleeding Obvious!!!!!!!
Nice of him to notice. About 5000 Boro fans noticed 2 seasons back and voted with their feet. As did many thousands at Blackburn, Bolton and the like.
Football in this country must bite the bullet and ditch those four to a Euro superleague they want to be in which can play its games anywhere they want in the world which will pay them the TV money they value above all else.
Then let's see how many of the highly paid mercenaries at the rest of the clubs decide to stay. Good riddance to those who don't want to stay.
Let the rest of us start again with a genuinely meaningful competitive league structure packed with British nationals again on sensible wages with sensible ticket prices.
We might even find ourselves producing players good enough to qualify for World Cups and Euro Championships again.
I've always been dead against any form of European superleague, but now I'm coming round to the idea that it might be best to let the 'big four' go and do their own thing.
They would get more of their big European games and the premiership would instantly become more competitive. It would still attract interest and players because of how many fans would still be supporting the remaining clubs.
I think it would strengthen the big teams as they will have top matches every week. It will strengthen the premiership as it will be genuinely competitive (assuming another big four does not emerge in its place).
It will also strengthen the FA Cup as it will be the one chance for the rest to take on the big four. It will strengthen the national team as you would assume the big teams would play less games in the superleague.
Additionally, you could have a revamped 'uefa cup' knockout competition featuring the superleague teams and regular qualifiers from the national leagues (who would have otherwise qualified for the now defunct champions league).
I reckon it could well suit everyone.
I am right behind King Kev on this one!
Its a swindle and the people at the top are all caught up in the stench. Dollar signs in their eyes and thats why players like Zenden etc all moved on to be part of it..
Problem is the manager can only select 11 players at a time and it doesnt always work out. The FA are a joke !
We are feeding on scraps and if we do manage to sign the new Berbatov [Tuncay next season ?] then Liverpool will be in for him.
Like I said its a massive swindle and even worse once you are out of the Prem!
The game was transformed 15 years ago with all seater stadia and the PL to become the soulless cash fest it is today. It is not as exciting or competitive as it was in the mid-1970's when i first started going (though, ironically, our status as a middling top flight club is still the same - we didn't realistically expect to win the league then either).
But I also think that the power of Sky and other global media and the dominance of the big four in terms of profile, finance and international fanbase is so well established anyway that all we are going to get is consolidation, not revolution.
The competition will continue to be restricted to the current mini-leagues of 4, 8 and 8, with increasingly limited movement between the two lower leagues.
For me the biggest drawback is that the game has been ripped from its community roots and the teams have lost some of the tribal distinctiveness which went with that.
Hence the lack of passion from home fans and the growing proportion of people who don't actively support their local team but instead try to claim some hollow allegiance with one of these glamour clubs, which is particularly galling on Teesside given the outstanding progress we've made since our rebirth in '86.
Keegan has it spot on. There is a simple solution though: follow the Dutch example. Champions League place for the winners, the other 3 places go to winners of a playoff between the next 8 clubs. The 3rd place (2 losers of the last 4) could be decided by the team with the best disciplinary record.. two birds one stone.
Will the Premiership wigs upset the big clubs with this revolution. No, they're on the gravy train too.
Football, as a competition, is dead but it's still a spangly show full of the best smoke & mirrors the media can overhype.... season ticket renewals, Mike Ashley must have been livid with King Kev.
This talk of a Euro Superleague is nonsense, there'll be little difference to what we have now!
Ignore the 'big four' and you have a league of 16 clubs with the winner (5th) getting a place in a European Cup Competition. The big four get all the cash and better players with the rest surviving on what’s left.
Take out the big four and they still get all the cash and better players in the Euro Superleague. We still get 16 (maybe) teams fighting over what’s left with the best team getting a place in a European Cup Competition.
Where's the improvement?
We have a good record against the big four teams, without the points we've taken from them this season we'd be relegated!
I must be one of those who voted with my feet and not renewed my season ticket.
The way I explain it is that during our time in the second tier of English Football we dared to dream of getting a team together that could win the Championship - as it was known then.
We came closest during the Charlton years.
After 11 consecutive seasons in the Premier League we are as far away as ever from winning the league. In fact, we know we won't win it!
Its all about the cream rising to the top. Man utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool are all at the top because they are the best 4 teams in the league and so get the most money.
Everton had the opportunity to change that so did tottenham but they didnt take it.
As the top 4 need champions league football to survive so they spend what it takes to get them there every season.
They can also buy players from the lesser clubs for inflated prices so not to dismantle their need for a top 4 finish. Carrick to Man Utd from Tottenham, Barry to Liverpool, Wright Phillips to Chelsea... the list goes on.
If a team was to break into that position whats the chance they can sustain it a challenge year in year out? Leeds are in league 1, Newcastle are mid table wannabees, so are Spurs, so what chance have any of the rest?
Spurs spent £50 million in the summer, Man Utd will pay that for tevez on his own.
The facts are that the champions league money sets them above the rest and with man utd making £3 million a home game how can even the top 4 teams compete with that?
The top teams will always win, will always sign the best players, get the best sponsors, have the best manager. Why? Cos they are the best and thats what they strive for game in game out.
Compare Boro to Man Utd, you cant. There is no comparison. Compare them to every other club in the league and there is only chelsea that come close...
This league will stay the way it is until fergie retires and a team breaks into the top 4.
It is refreshing to here a football insider telling the truth for a change instead of all the "best league in the world" spin.
It is especially nice coming from Newcastle, one of the clubs who fancy themselves as great powers in waiting.
It is only what all the managers and chairmen outside maybe six clubs think. It is definitely what all but the stupiest fans think.
For me it is the main reason why people are walking away from the game. In the last ten years we have been asked for more money every year even though we have less chance of making progress.
For me the best think that could happen is for the whole rotten thing to collapse so we can start again with lower wages, lower prices, more real competition and more interest.
I don't care if Sky won't be interested in that kind of league. It is them that I blame for the whole disaster anyway.
Jiffy might well have a point, losing the 'big four' to a European super league might not be the end of the world.
Just to play devils advocate though, if the prem. is so boring why are the attendance levels so high? There are 'big' clubs in Italy who would die for 25000 crowds every week.
Hey Vic! Long time no speak mate, hope all's well with you and the family!
Just a quick point from my new home across the pond.
You can say what you want about American sports but they do have an interesting equalising concept in the drafts, for basketball and American football for example.
Despite the massive amounts of money involved they've developed this system that is not only great for raising young talent but it also keeps things interesting for fans.
For those not in the know, basically, every season there's a pool of young players from the 'college' teams ready to turn professional - they are picked on draft weekend by the pro teams in rounds, like picking your teams in school.
Except the previous season's table is effectively flipped over, so the weaker teams pick first.
It means if you play it smart you can bounce up even after a crap season (as the bottom of the table dolphins hopefully will this season!)
Obviously the structure in the UK (not to say history, culture, etc) is not the same as here so wouldn't be something you could just implement in the same format, but still, the concept of equalising (though rewarding failure in a way) does keep it interesting for everybody.
It is probably more 'needed' over here where fans have less emotional/geographical ties to their sides and probably wouldnt hang around if their team had no hope of ever breaking into top half (and teams are 'franchises' that are happy to up sticks if crowds go down etc).
But wonder if anyone can think of anyway something like this could be implemented in footy - or if it would be a good idea!
Cheers and all the best to you lot over there!
Sanchez
**AV writes: Bem Vindo Blousinho. How's Miami?
Yes, there is much to be learned from US sports. It is ironic that the home of rampant capitalism has developed a socialised and collective model in some of their sport.
And it is not just "the draft" that is an interesting equaliser but also the salary cap. At present teams like Boro can not compete in the market because Chelsea can offer £100k a week to keep a talented player who should be making a contribution to the game on the bench.
But it there was a salary cap - say an upper limit on total outlay for a 24 man squad - they couldn't do that. They could still outspend in the transfer market but could only afford say, four superstars, four stars, eight decent quality players and then they would have to make the maths add up by signing eight youngsters on relatively low wages.
It works in gridiron, ice hockey and over here in Rugby League. It maintains a competitive balance and encourages movement of bigger players to smaller clubs where there is a 'superstar' wage slot available.
But it depends on a collective will in the game to make the product a dramatic sport where there is no institutional malaise, where the trophies and stars can not be monopolised and where over the course of three or four years small clubs can building winning teams.
God Bless America!
Kevin is spot on a and I am going to be killed for this but i think that the premier league is well overrated. La Liga is miles ahead because the even the worst of teams can play first class football compared to that of Sunderland and Bolton.
Money, Sky and Andy Gray is what blows the league in to some kind of soap.
I'm in the process of writing a book about the problems that the Premier League is facing: Drop me a note if you'd like a free copy when it's available (soccershout@gmail.com)
Some quick follow-ons from the comments above:
European Superleague: It would be important to learn something from our current predicament - something that would prevent (say) Everton, Tottenham, Villa and Newcastle from dominating the remaining teams.
Sustaining a 6-10th place spot: I'm still researching this issue, but my feeling is that costs out-weigh the rewards when it comes to finishing in the upper-middle spots.
Common sense would tell you that establishing a club there would be a stepping stone to breaking into the top four, but I think it's actually more like a stumbling block.
You just don't see teams hanging-out in that zone for very many seasons before the slide down the league. On the other hand, you often see teams that combine a UEFA Cup run with a poor league finish (e.g. Bolton this season).
Conspiracy theory - the UEFA Cup is actually a moat around the Champions League castle. Little sponsorship, watered-down format, poor TV deals means little money in return for expense of a 5th or 6th place finish.
Once again, drop me a line and I'll put you on the mailing list for the book - soccershout@gmail.com
I read with interest the comments attributed to KK.
However I take a different view. In a season where there are three points for a win there is an opportunity to collect a total of 114 for winning every game.
Of that 114 only 24 comes from the "big four". The remaining 90 points comes from beating the rest!
So where should the Boro concentrate their efforts next season? That's right, concentrate on beating the other 15 teams home and away and let the final league position take care of itself.
The question is can Gareth Southgate motivate the team to turn up to those 30 games?
Regards
Pauline
Vic,and Mat
Re your thoughts on American sport
I thought it was a certainty for something like that to happen with all the new owners coming in. I dont think the draft is an option but the wage cap yes definetly.
Yanks see sport as a entertainment business. It makes no sense to have sporting event with the result is nearly always know. It must make bad tv (no matter how much Sky try and build it up) and turns punters away. Even Man U and Chelsea fans must at some point find this all boring.
Where's the real danger for them? Where's the actual real excitment of winning anything? I remember the cup semi against Arsenal a couple of years back. The Boro fans sang there hearts out made it a great day, the Arse fans very quite just there for the expected win probably bored.
Compare that to our final against Bolton: what an atmosphere. Both fans making it a loud fantastic exprience desparately wanting to win it.
Even my Man U supporting mate a season ticket holder is made to buy all her home cup match tickets. It was a relief for her to be knocked out of the carling and FA cups.
Imagine the untapped millions of fans who would suddenly be attracted if we didnt genuinely know who was going to win the championship. Their local team started to build something, be in a chance of winning something, actually starting the season with a belief you could do something, mount a challenge. Each and every side having a couple of players you really wanted to see.
It isnt hard to imagine it easy if you try. Of course it will never happen the big four give up what they see as rightfully theirs. While the TV money cushions them nothing is gonna change.
viva la revolution
mark
"God Bless America!"
You can't be serious! North American sports may be more equal, but more equally bad.
Just ask any Toronto Maple Leaf fan.
The teams are run for profit, and if a team wins because of beneficial draft picks, the only reason is because the owner wants to attract a bigger fan base for merchandising sales. Hence no sooner do they win big than they collapse.
Not to mention the fact theres no relegation or promotion (hence the play-off concept).
The problem with the Premier League is indeed the equalisation of TV payments.
Only when the "bigger" teams, aspiring to be part of the big four, realise they can't possibly make it will the league finances change.
Greed is an amazing motivator and keeps bright people on the hook even when they know they don't really have a chance.
Don't you mean "stitched up like a kipper"
**AV writes: Ah... good spot.
In addition to my pedantry I should also have mentioned that I gave up contributing to Sky's coffers.
I spend my football money only on a Boro season card. If more people did that Sky would eventually lose their power to enforce silly kick off times.
The rumour mill is starting to crank up, the Echo revealing Wigan are lining up a seven figure bid for Clattermole and that this could cause Gate a problem with the possible departure of Rocky, Boat and O'Neill.
So come on folks who should he try and keep or rather who do you think Gate wants to keep.
My views are that Rocky is a certainty to leave, Boat will be like JFH and Veruka and looking for a big final contract but wont get it. O'Neill is a southern lad so may hanker after a return to his homeland.
I think Gate will try and develop Cat into the Boat role and try and keep O'Neill.
Truth is I dont know but I wont criticise players doing the best for their careers as long as they dont slag us off and the club benefits.
AV,
I'm going to swim against the tide a bit here. I'm not convinced the big 4 will be the same 4 clubs in 3 years time. A chink almost appeared this year with Liverpool threatening to drop off before surging away towards the end of the season.
Everything in life is cyclical, I think these four clubs have some big changes to handle in the next few years that will pull them back to the rest.
Manchester United will lose Ferguson at some stage in the next couple of years - big footsteps for someone to step into, even with a shedload of money.
Ditto with Arsenal and Wenger, although they look the most stable to me as Wenger has built a new team and I think will want to stay until it matures.
Liverpool and Chelsea are both vulnerable to off-field financial issues. More so Liverpool who could lose a manager and have a lengthy period where the money doesn't turn up for his replacement.
Chelsea simply can't sustain their financial outlay forever, and when it comes their fall from grace could be spectacular (like Leeds).
On top of that, some of the smaller clubs are getting some serious cash injections which will help. Some will inevitably get it wrong, spend a pile of money and get nowhere, but some will get it right.
And...ever the eternal optimistic Boro fan...I still think there is room in this merry-go-round for a well run small club to get in amongst it...sort of like the Ipswich and Nottingham Forest of the modern era.
It might not happen next season (maybe 1 of 4 will drop away a bit), but it will come, and sooner than most posters seem to think.
Ian
Boro need a new keeper and a left back.
I think that Boat and Rocky will both leave.
Cattermole is not good enough and it seems that GS does not rate Johnson (why else play Cattermole or Boat on the right when Jonno was available)
There are strong rumours in the Boro that O'Neill can not settle in the North East and that he wants out. We also need another striker, possibly two if the pie man leaves.
So it could be that Boro will need to sign up to seven new players. If this happens then we can expect most of the signing to happen on or near to transfer deadline day.
GS will then have the excuse of having to many new players and needing time for the squad to 'bed in'
Then it will be a learning curve for the manager and team which lasts for the season and ends with Boro finishing 13th in the table.
Deja vu at the Riverside me thinks.
C'Mon Boro!
A European Super League will never happen.
The reason for this is that these glamour football clubs have to win nearly every week to keep their glory hunting/football tourist fans happy.
They are quite happy as they are at the top of the pile. Imagine for example a 16 team European Super League and Liverpool finishing near the bottom three four years running. Who would want to buy their shirts to follow a losing brand?
People claim to follow a big four team who live in other parts of the country. Why? Because they are more or less guarranteed success. Pathetic really.
On Bank holiday Monday I was in Seaton Carew. It was very pleasant and quite busy. I saw three Man Utd shirts, four Liverpool, two Chelsea, one Arsenal, one Boro and one Newcastle being worn. I did not see a single Hartlepool shirt being worn. I think that tells it's own story.
Cattermole, Schwarzer, Jones, Boateng, Rocky, Mido, all to go for me.
We need a new keeper thats a definate. I'd go for Robinson, a move is what he needs. Sidwell is mentioned but i think if an Everton or Vvilla come knocking he'll end up there.
We need a goalscoring midfielder but i cant realy think of any, if Sven goes from Citeh then why not a cheeky bid for Elano.
Im not a scout and I dont know whos out there so I cant realy drop any names, I know for certain though that there isnt really any one player from any team outside the top four that I would say for definate i would want him.
Lets hope we can get sum "spectacular signings" and move this team on
COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure why everyone is keen on signing Robinson, a keeper whose confidence is shot to pieces and probably hasn't had a good game in two years. I'd rather keep Schwarzer.
I'd keep Mido if he's happy being part of a 4-man strike force, if not, get rid. He can't expect to automatically be ahead of Tuncay and Alves.
Rocky to leave as expected, I'd expect Boateng and maybe Johnson to follow. So we'd need maybe one striker, plus up to three midfielders (one right, two centre).
The defence looks good, I'm happy enough with the options at left back, don't think we need to strengthen there just yet.
New shirt looks good!
Never Happy
Midfield was for starters having seen the Echo article.
There are areas that need developing all over the team but we are no different to the rest of the teams. I cant see us making huge progress but if we can start scoring goals then top ten is a possibility.
One item I found interesting concerns the scouting network alledgedly in place at Chelsea. When interested in a player he is watched at three matches, four scouts attend each match - one in each stand. They each log a report independently on laptop. The reports are collated and a decision made. Very thorough, still get it wrong at times. It begs the question who watched Dong Goal Less?
Ian
The less said about DGL the better.
Din't the Boro reveal a new world wide scouting set up at the start of this season? It is starting to show how far the search for new talent has spread, as we signed an 18 year old David James lookalike from the mighty Maidstone United yesterday.
Boro have also recruited David Mills (who apparently has been scouting for talent for the skunks for the last 3 years) lets hope he does a better job at the Boro.
Maybe a case of Agent David your job is done come home.
Also the most boring man in the world Gordon McQueen has been recruited to find talent. How will anyone understand a word he says or keep awake long enough to sign a contract after discussions with Mr McQueen?
Hopefully its onwards and upwards.
C'Mon Boro!
Question for you Vic:
Do you approve of the new home shirt? I do. Not just because it's good to see the band back, but simply because the design is better for it than for possibly every other home shirt we've had this decade. (My second favourite is the 2006/07 model... for some reason I was never a fan of the stripe down the side in 2005/06.)
**AV writes: I approve of the band. I voted for shirt C, only for the white piping on collar and cuffs but hey, I won't have a hissy fit. I'm no slave to fashion.
20 years or so ago we used to think it would never get this way.
We looked at Portugal where only three teams had ever won the title (Porto, Sporting and Benfica) or Holland where the league revolved around Feyenoord, Ajax and PSV with the occasional one season wonder mixing in with them (like Alkmaar one year).
Closer to home we looked at Scotland with Celtic and Rangers then a huge gulf to third spot again with the occasional decent team put together for a year or two llike Hearts or Dundee United.
The gap across the Scottish top flight was bigger than between the whole of England's 4 divisions!
We thought it could never happen here. England like Spain and Italy had a top flight that could be won by up to ten sides every year.
Well those days are gone. England is just like Scotland now. Once it starts it builds its own momentum. In Scotland you can take whichever of the Old Firm is playing at home and note its attendance - then add up all the rest of the gate figures at games over the four divisions and the Old Firm home game has had more than the rest put together and that includes the other team's travelling support!
How did it get to that stage? Its quite simple. The next generation of young fans don't bother with the team a half mile down the road even if they are in the also rans making up the top flight. They follow one of the big teams instead.
Sky now has made it possible to watch every game of the season live for any of those teams without setting foot in a ground. Stockton-red saw it with his breakdown of team kits on Seaton Carew beach.
But what does it lead to? Back then Scotland had a national side that regularly qualified for world Cups. Now they are even also rans within Europe barely better than Wales.
Does anyone seriously consider this will change? With so much money involved the big clubs wouldn't allow it to change. If anyone threatened to disrupt their monopoly they have the financial muscle to ensure that results turn out in their favour and not the usurper. Name any other walk of life where so much money is at stake and some form of behind the scenes influence wielding isn't rife.
Dont tell me these clubs have the best players. Wes Brown FFS!!!!!!!
Ian -
Now that you've brought who stays who goes up what are we going to talk about through the Summer?
For me loosing Cattermole, Rocky and The Boat wouldn't be the end of the world.
I like Rocky but he hasn't quite done it , even though at the start of the season I thought he was playing well.
Cattermole isn't a premiership player in my opinion and will never be as good as The Boat was, if someone wants him then sell him. The Boat will probably move on, he's a squad player now.
Maybe GS will off load Mido, perhaps he was bought as a stop gap last Summer, with a more dynamic striker being bought to replace him.
I'm relaxed about the keeper situation, I'd be happy if Schwarzer stays, if he goes there are plenty of quality replacements available.
In an ideal world I'd like us to have Graham Souness clonned and brought in to the midfield (as a 25 year old that is!) although I suspect a player of his calibre would be worth £50 million of todays money.
I think the idea of buying Paul Robinson is a daft one, if he's not good enough for Spurs why is he good enough for Boro?
I read in one of the tabloids that Keegan may be repaced shortly at 'Toon' by Dennis Wise, now that really would make me laugh!
The Premier League is not boring. The only time I, as a Boro fan, am likely to be bored is this Sunday following guarenteeing safety last week.
The battle for the championship, with Arsenal faltering, the much mailigned but over performing Grant and the can't quite keep up Liverpool have ensured a good season as far as I am concerned.
The holy grail for Boro is not the top four, its progress in league position and style of play but finishing top half would not be boring in the same way as watching the Boro beat top 4 Arsenal and drawing with the irresistable and roundly hated Man Utd.
Keegan goes for the soft option and whilst stats back him up facts don't (Everton top 4 a couple of seasons ago). Keegan should reach for the stars not accept the gutter, he lets himself and all the Geordies down with such comments.
"People claim to follow a big four team who live in other parts of the country. Why? Because they are more or less guaranteed success. Pathetic really."
Not always, sunshine. Some of us come from big four areas but no longer reside there because of work (like me for example!)
If you want some more fans you should try winning a real trophy and you may pick up some glory hunters on the way.
Gary O'Neil -calm yourself down with a visit to Hartlepool's historic quay mate, have an ice cream and fire a cannon - it will be like being back in Portsmouth.
I think we need to get another striker, if we cant get one with pace, I would love Theo Walcott, then what about Crouchy on the end of Downings crosses? Would either of them come anyway?
We should keep Mido and get him fit so we have some back up, although I cant imagine anyone coming in based on his season with us.
I personally think Rockemback has done well for us in a Mascerano/ Makele/ Alonso role and you dont score from back there. His passing is good and so are most of his crosses and corners [ one was an assist against Pompy]
The problem is he should be partnered with a fast attacking midfielder who can support the strikers to balance the midfeild. The problem is that Arca and Boat do a similar job only boat cant pass as well and Arca cant defend as well.
I remember Rocky as one of very few Boro players who wanted to try and have a go against Cardiff .
I am not at all sure if Southgate can separate his feelings for former team mates -Riggots and Mendiettas treatment proves that.
Southgate - you need to visit Yoda and walk unarmed into a dark cave with your former Boro team mates in and face your fear.
Yes Master Gareth, Darth Flloyd Hasslebaink is your Father ....
Noooooooooooo!
**AV writes: May the force be with us.
Vic
For the record, I voted for shirt C as well (I think)... but the one we've got more than does the job!
The football isnt boring in the premiership, that played by ManU and Arsenal is far better than delivered by Leeds and Liverpool at their pomp. Some of the dire fare doled out by the rest is no different than it ever was.
We should remember that we see so much more football now including the bits that went onto the editors floor in the TV studios in the past.
As boro fans we have never won anything until recently so our judgement isnt based on that. The problem is the gulf between the top teams and the rest that is growing, we will never see a Forest or Derby or Blacburn winning the title for some time if ever.
I would be careful about too much pruning in central midfeild as we have a small squad as it stands.
I deffo think we need an attacking central midfielder or 2 who can score goals but if the new faces are unproven in the prem and do a Dong Gook and we have stripped away Rocky , Boat and Cattermole. What does that leave us?
O'Neil -hard working, not sure if he will score the goals.
Arca- I prefer Rockemback
Shawky- Why hasent Southgate played him more this season to gage his consistency? He is still a bit of an unknown really.
What a carry on, over to you Gareth. Oh and good luck.
PS, I hope City are not gonna 'Do it for Sven' at the weekend as hopefully Tuncay ,Luke Young , Downing ,Alliadierre, Wheater and Pogger who have been our most consistent players might have something to say about it.
Home win !
It makes me spit to hear so many Boro fans support Keegan's view. This is a petulant fifty something who is throwing his toys out of the pram because he can't get his own way. Again. As he has done so many times before..
He should be ashamed of himself, except of course Keegan doesn't do self awareness. It is Keegan's modus operandi. He has spent his way to mediocrity in every management job he has ever had and his biggest failure (of which he has had plenty) is noticeably the England job where he couldn't spend his way out of trouble.
To recap: Newcastle - spent a fortune, won nothing. Fulham - spent a fortune, won nothing. Man City - spent a fortune, won nothing. I beg your pardon, for a career outlay of nearly 200 million pounds, he's won the second tier. Twice. Ooo - the talent. How much did Brucie do it for?
I hope this indictment of Keegan's coaching skills continues.
He is a weak manager who by raising the issue of the big four is a) trying to blackmail his Chairman into spending money and b) deflecting attention away from his lack of coaching acumen.
Keegan is a shyster who wants someone else to fund his ego trip. He will flounce out of Newcastle as he has done before (and threatened to on several occasions in order to winkle money out of his Chairman), Newcastle will win nothing. His latest rantings are that of a spoilt child presented with his own failings.
This thread has started to spread in to several areas so here is my two pennorth
(a.) One of the points about American Football is that they share out the TV money EQUALLY. One of the factors that perpetuates the 'Big Four' phenomena is that they finish where they do every year and get many times the money that the rest of us do.
Looking at Merit Money, finishing 4th gets a club just over £12m whereas finishing 17th gets a club less than £3m.
The cash for live TV appearances depends on how many times a team appears. Therefore Man Utd get a squillion pounds more than, say, Bolton. If ALL of the TV money was shared out EQUALLY then it would level the playing field somewhat.
Of course, two of the 'Big Four' clubs are owned by Americans who are well aware that the situation here suits them fine and dandy. Perhaps Randy Lerner can be asked what his views are on this subject
(b.) Gary O'Neill "can't settle in the area." LET HIM GO. NOW. Bugger off Gary and NOT score any goals somewhere darn sarf. Good riddance.
(c.) Paul Robinson. Playing for a London club puts him under the most intense scrutiny week in, week out. The odd blooper gets blown up out of all proportion, confidence drops, stress levels increase, England shirt disappears.
Schwartzer's odd bloopers have nowhere near the same effect in our dear old backwater. A move Oop North would do Robinson the world of good.
and finally (d) Clive Hurren - would you be the Acky Hall Clive Hurren?
Oh, and another thing.....
Apparently the sad little Man Utd 'fan' from Darlington has a job there. Dishing out the parking tickets no doubt. Nice uniform mate!
Croydon Boro
Your comments about King Kev strike a chord with many fans of Boro and other clubs for that matter, he is very much a king with no clothes that few in the media dare speak the truth about.
What we must do is separate that from the fact his comments were basically true, very few clubs stand a chance of breaking into the top four.
Historically a few smaller clubs could win the league but that appears to be gone for the moment.
It is interesting that he now has to have a meeting with Ashley over his comments, we have Sven and his problems at Citeh, turmoil at Anfield, huge debts at ManU, even Arsenal have been having boardroom troubles. It makes you grateful we have Gibbo.
Band on shirt looks like a teardrop,hope it isnt an omen
CroydonBoro:
So Kevin's not on your Christmas list then eh?
I won't disagree with the political nature of Keegan's rant and his manipulation of the situation to suit his own purposes. I agree with that assessment.
However, your personal dislike of the guy and his failure to achieve anything substantial as a football coach actually doesn't change the facts of the matter.
To be fair to Keegan, it's worth noting that not many football coaches/managers actually win things. The large majority don't. So when passing judgement on managers or coaches, to quote lack of silverware as a prime criterion should perhaps be considered cautiously.
Irrespective of which "insider" said it about the Premier League (and we now have pubic declarations of accord from Martin O'Neill and Harry Redknapp - coaches of some repute), the Messiah's words were indeed, wise teachings!
I think we all can understand where Messiah's motives are centred. But with due respect, that's NOT the point!
The point is that the state of the Premier League, what it is, what the dangers are, is all now in the public domain and will, hopefully, become more of a focus of attention fro reformers of the game in this country. And I, for one, hope that it leads to radical change.
The potential importance of the Messiah's comments may be measured by the fact that it prompted a defensive response from Richard Scudamore.
http://www.skysports.com/video/0,20285,12606_3533140,00.html
However, if you listen to Scudamore's interview on the subject of whether the Premier League is boring or not, he finally talks himself into having to focus on the teams that are REPEATEDLY at the top. He also quotes an example that effectively proves the rule, by referring to Ipswich having broken into fifth position at one point in the Premiership's history!
Oh, for goodness sake Scudamore!! Where are Ipswich now?? And where are the same top four and for how long have they been there?
His arguments could have sounded almost plausible, because the guy CAN talk - until the end of the interview. Give him enough rope and hopefully............!
Ian's point about small clubs once being able to win the league and that no longer being possible is an interesting one.
I doubt Forest or Derby would ever have won the league without having a genius as manager.
Everton and Villa are big clubs who have potential to break into the top four and a team like Blackburn who once won the league because a multi-millionaire bought them a title could again if owned by a billionaire.
Has the gulf widened between the top four and the rest? I'm not certain. Boro certainly manage to perform well against all of them fairly regularly, probably more succesfully than they did in the late seventies.
The inevitability of the same teams finishing in the top four may be seen as boring but I can remember the same debate being had in the late seventies, early eighties when liverpool dominated the league and pundits commented on how it was 'damaging' the league.
At least now there are four serious title contenders and of those four there is usually one under pressure for most of the season from the team in fifth.
Nigel
Derby and Forest did have an exceptional manager but could he do it now?
Going back to the days when they won the title, squads were smaller without the depth the top clubs have now. It was basically a case of 11 v 11 with one sub.
There were a limited number of good players to go around, astute managers could build a good team safe in the knowledge that good players would come to get a game. The top wage earners were in Italy and Spain and freedom of movement was not as it is today.
Realistically the top clubs now have two teams and if you look at the league today the top four are separated from each other because the top two have a stronger second team than Arsenal and Liverpool.
When you could only name twelve players you couldnt keep top players happy if they were not in the squad. Today it is 16 people and unless you have the games you cant keep them all fit and relatively happy.
ManU can leave Rooney, Ronaldo and Giggs in the stand and still be better than they rest - they nearly got away with a draw at Chelsea with a 'weakened'team.
They have two contenders for the holding role for England in the same squad, god knows what will happen if they get Berbatov.
If someone misses a game for a top club they are terrified that the international class player who comes in may take their place in the first choice team but there is always a match coming along to state their claim, in a club like ours our back up players are not of that quality.
They can do this because of the almost guaranteed resources available to them. When a club like Leeds had their spell with O'Leary's 'babies' no matter the money they spent they could not sustain it against the resources of even bigger clubs. As soon as they didnt qualify for the Champions League the wage bill became an issue, there were not the matches to keep players involved and the slither started.
The clubs I call the sleeping giants - Everton, Villa, Spurs, Toon may be able to break in occasionally but wont be able to maintain it because the existing top four are so strong.
The last time it happened Liverpool got a rule change to allow them to play in the Champions League because they won it the previous season. I wouldnt be surprised if they hadnt had a nod and wink before the season had even finished that they would be in if they won the final, all the subsequent debate was posturing for the media.
Tony from Baku, Clive is ex-Acky as are Powls and myself.
Get rid of O'Neil and bring in Robinson in the same post? Are you bonkers?
Why on earth do we want to sign players who are afraid of the limeleight? Why don't we offer ourselves to anyone else who fancies an easy couple of years to get their career back on track, eh?
Ex-Acky?
Nigel:
I have graphs and statistics that demonstrate the trend of increasing polarization of the league from top to bottom over the full history of the 20-club league.
I can't share it easily on this blog because the technology doesn't support it. But I assure you, without labouring the point here, the trend is there and as clear as you like!
It’s based on the share of points of those teams in the top positions by comparison with those in the lower positions. It does demonstrate very clearly that the strong are getting stronger and the weak are getting weaker. Admittedly, middle league positions are less affected than the very top and bottom. But the trend is there.
The decrease in variability of the identity of the top four located clubs in recent years is a further indicator that the League isn’t just “position-biased� but that it is “club biased�, by virtue of the fact that the identities of the top four group are becoming unchanged, albeit they rearrange themselves a little from time to time!
A point of caution when considering statistical stuff. It’s important to consider the trends – not just the start and end points of the data sets. A comparison of only the start and finish points of data sets, can give a distorted view of what’s really happening, because of a natural variability (scatter) in the data, just like Scudamore quoting exceptions such as Ipswich coming 5th in 2000-1 thus supposedly, triumphantly proving his point – only, it doesn’t!.
There’s been a lot of water flowed under the Premier League’s bridge since then and a lot more TV money has poured into the Champions League clubs’ coffers than any others.
As regards your point about Liverpool in the 60’s and 70’s, I understand the juxtaposition in your assertion, but the past is not necessarily a guide to the future and what we do know about the current situation is that the distribution of the spoils of the game under the TV deals has favoured, and continues to favour, those who have been initially most successful and has enabled them to consolidate their position, not by purely sporting means, but by exploiting the commercial advantage they’ve been accorded from the outset by differential rewards for that continuing success.
Talk about a stacked deck!! It’s like being handed your own set of marked cards before the poker game starts!
socialised and collective model - US sports ? You are joking Mr Vickers. It is called a cartel.
Also, I have found that there is a large 'underground' support of college teams in the US. A lot of people I talk to over here like the fact that the colleges aren't franchised and the players , overall , play for the love of the game.
It will never change as long as each team on the food chain gets a few scraps from the table.
"People claim to follow a big four team who live in other parts of the country. Why? Because they are more or less guaranteed success. Pathetic really."
"Not always, sunshine. Some of us come from big four areas but no longer reside there because of work (like me for example!)"
If this clown genuinely is a Manc he shouldn't have a fixation with lil' ol' Boro.
City, scousers and maybe a title rival are fair game for the rest of his brethren but we are no more relevant to them than Portsmouth or Birmingham.
Ian/Richard,
I think it highly unlikely that Brian Clough could turn a mid-size team into champions today, but he could I believe create a team good enough to make the top four. He could probably turn a Villa sized team into champions.
Its easy to forget that Chelsea are new to the top table and are there simply because they are owned by a billionaire.
The top four 'cartel' could be broken by the combination of the right manager and a mega rich owner.
For Boro there is no hope of ever being champions, but for me there never was, that doesn't make football life boring though.
I believe a team like Boro could make the top four once in a blue moon just like Everton did. I also believe the gulf between the top four and the rest is about as wide as it can get, they can already buy who they like , any extra money coming along in the future will go straight into the pockets of the club owner.
We aren't in a bad position. The Prem is a lot more competitive than the Dutch league for instance.
I also believe the likes of Boro and therefore us the fans have benefited from SKY money enormously. Would we ever have seen Juninho, Ravenelli, Merson, Alves play for Boro without SKY money? And lets face it if this were the late 70's Downing would be at Liverpool now just like Souness went, Pally to Utd in the 80's etc etc.
To finish off having said we'll never be champions, in 1986 I would have said we'll never make it to a UEFA cup final!
And very finally!! Coggins - Diablo Derek is a sad man with a chip on his shoulder the size of Ronaldo's ego. He claims to go to both Utd and Bury matches while living in Darlo, he clearly travels by Tardis!
It's blatantly obvious that the top four are getting stronger year by year. It also obvious why..... Champions' League money. It will stay that way as long as 4 teams qualify for the CL every year.
The Uefa cup is nothing in comparison. How much profit did we make the year we reached the final? I bet it was less than Manu take at every premiership home game.
That's why it daft to talk about Gibson not taking advantage of our Uefa Cup run and using it to improve the team. It's all about finance now, not sport.
On the other hand, the new financial climate does have advantages for Boro. What must teams like Derby, West Brom, Wolves etc. think when they look at us? We are an established Premiership side. We have 10 years of Premiership money behind us. We are as far ahead of the Championship as the big four are ahead of us.
Basically our next ten years will be "too good to go down but not quite good enough for Europe". We will remain one of the top 16 clubs in the country, which also more or less means one good cup run every season.
It doesn't really matter who the manager is. The league table is almost identical to a table showing club turnover.
steve h- spot on mate.
As regards Buying Paul Robinson, we should certainly do it. Yorkshire lad too and Spurs are a bigger club than us-after all, we blew the chance to get Robbie Keane and they ponied up the scrilla..
If O'Neil is unhappy it makes sense to sell him, but he's a grown man so should be able to live 300miles from home if i can survive more than 5,000miles from mine.
Well done STEWART DOWNING on getting player of the year!
Cant understand why some "fans" booed the lad earlier in the season.If you look at top scoring midfielders in the prem you will see that only Stevie G , Lampard, Barry and Ashley Young above him!
I hope he scores a few goals against City and ends up in double figures for the season. We would have gone down without those goals and no matter how much these lads are being paid they are only human and may have an off day and he is a local lad ! I think that sometimes means people take him for granted though .
Tuncay to score first at our place at the weekend! I have got my foam hands on and cant stop waving.
Up the boro
"If this clown genuinely is a Manc he shouldn't have a fixation with lil' ol' Boro."
Coggins, sweetie! My "interest" with your football club is due to the fact that I happen to be unfortunate enough to work with a load of deluded clowns that are Middlesbrough FC fans.
Diablo
I live in Derby and being outside the Greater Manchester area am surrounded by ManU fans, they are delusional as well - they think Ronaldo doesnt dive and that they are true ManU fans. Still dont post on ManU message boards.
I still prefer ManU to win the title rather than Chelsea.
So UEFA have awarded another place in the Uefa cup to the English team with the best disciplinary record at the end of the season not already qualified.
That might just rule ourselves out with our ability to collect yellows and reds. The favourites are Citeh who we just happen to face on Sunday. It will be interesting to see if they play with that in the back of their minds, if I was in their position I would make sure I would keep out of trouble. They will probably get three reds now!
Come on lads, a good end to the season.
I see that infestation problem in Darlo is back.
Well, the game on Sunday takes on a new significance now that Citeh have a UEFA place at stake as well as their popular manager moving on.
I guess that Sven, the team and the Citeh fans will want to win and qualify for Europe not just for its own sake but also to stuff one up Shinawatra.
It should mean more to Boro too than the return of the white band, face painting, carnival, jugglers, live bands and deck chairs.
It's a chance to play with freedom and style and set ourselves up for next season. A chance too to stay above the Mackems though we can't reach the Skunks.
And a chance to reward long suffering fans at The Riverside with back to back home wins and some goals.
To that end I'd go 4-3-3. The usual defence - it's too much to hope that Huth makes an appearance, I suppose.
A midfield three with Shawky at the centre of it flanked by Arca and Rocky or The Boat - all of whom may be saying their good-bye's.
I wouldn't be sorry to say farewell to the Tippy-Tappy Twins but I'd quite like The Boat to see out his contract next season at Boro as a squad player and then be rewarded with a Bosman when he can negotiate the best deal for himself.
Stewie, Alves and Tuncay up front with the Gallic sulker, Aliadiere as a second half sub.
Am I reading this bizarre situation correctly?
For Manchester City to qualify for UEFA Cup entry next season, all they have to to is not pick up any more diciplinary points for the one remaining game of this season?
It can't depend on them overhauling Everton or Villa, because that's not mathematically possible. And then there's Blackburn also ahead of them. Mark's hatchet men are even worse than Boro in the card stakes this season, and anyway, they'd have to lose to Birmingham by about 6 goals for Manchester City to then overhaul them on goal difference and then it would only be into 7th position. And of course Pompey are in front of them marginally too.
So, if all of the above is factual - which I believe it is - we have a situation wherein it is in Manchester City's interests not to overdo individual competition in physical struggles for the ball. Not to contest dubious awards. Not to haul down clean-through strikers. No tugging of shirts, etc, etc?
It therefore, pays them to follow a path of less than 100% competitiveness.
How ironic is that for Boro and for Sven!
Sven tells them to stand off a bit to ensure he gets them into Europe and is sacked for his trouble! And in the meantime, the guy that wins out of all of this is Shinawatra. Depite acting despicably towards Eriksson, he comes up smelling of roses.
And as for Boro, our reward for beating them is an extra place up the Premier League table, into 13th. Whoopee-do!
If I was in Manchester City's players boots, thinking of beaches, or playing in the Euros or joining the club in a promo tour of the Far East, would I be putting it about out there against Boro, knowing that if I did, it might be my yellow or red card that lost my team a place in the UEFA Cup and maybe got me injured so that I couldn't enjoy my summer? Erm....... maybe not!
What on earth are UEFA doing announcing this before the end of the season? I mean it's not like the authorities to do Boro any favours is it?
Ah! Its Platini's presidency! Viva La France. Connections? Connections? Jeremie Alliadiere - Platini's love child? Erm....maybe not! They're making compensation for Sevilla slipping up and hammering us in Eindhoven? Erm....maybe not!
Come on! Come on! There has to be a reason!
Incompetence! That'll do nicely!
Just another nail in the coffin of fair competition in football! It really is hard to reconcile sport and money!
The one name you left out while describing yourself is "boring windbag". You have the ability to constantly state the obvious and lack any insight whatsoever.
Do you get paid by the word?
**AV writes: I wish.