About this blog

Untypical Boro is a lively topical blog by the Evening Gazette's award winning football columnist Anthony Vickers that aims to get behind the headlines to flesh out the stories that Boro fans are talking about.

Incisive, provocative and well informed it seeks to engage with articulate supporters and give them a platform to help set the agenda on the issues that matter.

Recent comments

Recent Posts

Sponsored links

Archives

Links

Advertiser

Sponsored links


Boro's Dead Ball Danger Zone

Posted by on April 30, 2008 1:23 PM | 

EFFECTIVE marking at dead-balls isn't as simple as telling Pogatetz to pick up the big lad and stick with him no matter what when the ball comes in and Tayls, stick on the near post. What if the big fella doesn't make the run and your best and most physical header is left redundent? What if the run to the far post is a decoy and someone else steams through the gap?

Having a pop at Boro's 'zonal marking' system is all the rage this week, and understandably so after the last gasp sucker punch at the Stadium of Light when a routine near post corner sparked Keystone Kops chaos. That followed an equally sickening scene as a fumbled clearance from another flag-kick came back in and low rise Julio Arca was left looking like a dejected nipper as six foot competitive dad Danny Higgenbottom barged him aside to head home at the far post in the demoralising 1-0 home defeat to Bolton.

In fact a string of dead ball debacles going back to Cardiff opener - the moment the season shattered apart - has helped send Boro into a worrying tailspin in recent weeks, so much so that, according to dejected Luke Young, management are weighing up whether their zonal system has been rumbled and may be axed in favour of the traditional man-to-man approach.

Shell-shocked Young got the short straw at Sunderland and was ushered down the tunnel to explain where it all went wrong to the assembled Teesside press corps - well, me, Mark Drury from BBC Tees and Gordon Cox from the club website - and after some agonising over the cruelty of the late kick in the teeth he flagged up the problem unsolicited. I managed to press him further later on and he expanded on the problem and admitted there had been a discussion on the failings of the zonal system and changes were being considered.

Some of what he said was in the Gazette (and then recycled elsewhere), but there was a bit more, and I've got it in my notebook so what the hell, here's an extended 12 inch remix.

"It was a cruel blow," said Young. "And worse, that's twice in two weeks we've been done from a corner in almost exactly the same way and maybe thats something we need to look into. Bolton caught us like that too and there is nothing defenders hate more than being done at a set piece because it is something you should be good enough to deal with.

"We mark zonal," he explained. "I think maybe a couple of teams have been looking into the way we are setting up for set-pieces and being clever about finding little holes. We have to deal with it in a more professional way."

Zonal marking involves defenders taking responsibility for a specific area of the box and picking up opponents who run into their particular zone when the ball is delivered as opposed to more traditional man marking where defenders are designated an individual and track them wherever they run. The advantages are that defenders are less likely to be drawn out of position following decoy runs leaving gaps to be exploited by attackers arriving late and so can more effectively protect vulnerable areas like both posts. Having designated roles also means they can set up quickly for free-kicks to prevent them being vulnerable to a quick one from the opposition plus it also means they are in place ready to break forward when they gain possession.

The disadvantages are that rather than the tallest defenders cancelling out the most potent aeriel threat, shrewd movement can hand a height advantage to the attacking side, as when towering Higginbottom beat hapless Arca in the air to head home Sunderland's opener, and unless everyone is drilled to perfection markers can 'lose' their man as they run across zones leaving an alert attacker to find an unprotected spot.

Boro have used the 'zonal' system since Steve McClaren was in charge and have made it work very effectively. In the early part of the season Gareth Southgate's side were among the meanest when it came to defending set-pieces and until two months ago only Manchester United were more water-tight.

Even now the OPTA statistics show Boro have conceded on 14 goals from set-pieces and that only six teams - including Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United - have leaked fewer.

But the system has been creaking in recent weeks. Boro leaked an early goal from a free-kick in the painful FA Cup quarter-final defeat to Cardiff while Chelsea's winner in the 1-0 Stamford Bridge showdown, Arsenal's late leveller in the 1-1 draw at the Emirates, Bolton's goal and now Sunderland's sucker punch have come from set pieces. Now Young believes it may be time for Boro to go back to the drawing board when it comes to defending dead balls.

"I don't think it lack of concentration," he isnisted. " We mark zonal and teams are getting clever and are starting to putting people in positions that cause you trouble. They have obviously looked at what we are doing and are hurting us so it is something we will have to look at ourselves. We have to work on it and decide whether to continue with zonal or start going man to man.

"It is not something you can easily change overnight. Zonal is something we have practiced all season, it is what we know and are comfortable with and it has worked well for us for most of that time. It is just maybe now at the tail end of the season that it seems to have been found out a little bit so maybe we need to assess why and what we should do. "

It is right if the system is wobbling that Boro examine it. That should not be seen as a sign of weakness, dissent or a dressing room split. It is sensible management to look at how opposition coaches are approaching Boro's previously solid defensive set-up, where the potential weaknesses are and how best to counter that. It may be they need to work harder and be more determined to make the prefered system work rather than risk the possible consequences of changing horses in mid-stream.

Boro should be wary that they do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. 'Zonal' marking is widely employed in Europe, is part of the FA's official tactical text-book infra-structure for national teams and although - or maybe because - it is a complex system that demands a high degree of technical preparation and understanding from the players. No one will be surprised to find that Steve McClaren was a passionate advocate.

In English football Liverpool have been the standard bearers for the system and Rafa Benitez has reached two Champions League finals going zonal against the cream of continent and made Djimi Traore look a decent defender to boot. It is easy to say the boss uses it in order to play in Europe and that it has not fared so well in the thud and blunder of the Premiership - zonal has been a political hot potato in red Merseyside after every defeat for years now - but Liverpool have rarely finished outside the top four and rarely conced from set-pieces.

And besides, the Anfield approach to defending pre-dates Benitez. In a tactical teach-in on the BBC last year stopper turned surly scar-faced small screen tut-tutter Alan Hansen said: "We always used zonal marking when I won championships with Liverpool. It was all about winning the first ball and if not, you've got to clean up the second ball. The other thing of course is having a goalkeeper who we knew was going to come for crosses."

Ahh. That may point to one reason Boro's zonal system has wobbled in recent weeks. Brad Jones' vampireseque attitude to crosses may well have been a factor at Sunderland with his failure to dominate his box piling pressure on the rest of the system and causing it to crack. Likewise against Bolton stand-in shot-stopper Ross Turnbull played and whil ehe shows great promise he is not an integral part of the well oiled machine that is Boro's backline.

Former FA technical director and coaching guru Howard Wilkinson (don't laugh, he has more badges than a boy scout jamboree) has used the zonal system for more than 30 years and made it work as he became the last English manager to win the title and later made it the norm in coaching national teams from the senior side right down to the schoolboys although his disaster at Sunderland maybe emphasises that it ios as much about the quality of the players as the technical shape of the system that determine whether it works.

Wilkinson said: "Zonal defending is based on the principle that when free-kicks are taken in the attacking third in wide positions or from corners, there is a dangerous space which can be identified. Within this area roughly three out of 100 goals are scored from the first touch.

"The system attempts to concentrate the best headers of the ball in that space. Your other players are in positions to defend the second ball. With man-to-man marking, attackers can drag defenders all over the place by taking them away from the danger area. It is a collective responsibility whereas man-for-man marking is based on personal responsibility."

That raises an interesting point: under zonal marking when a goal flies in at a set piece it is the system that takes the flak while in man-to-man the blame might lie with a different individual every time, so the overall trend can be easily overlooked.

But there are issues that can be exploited. "The problem with zonal marking is that because of the movement of the opposition, you're going to have men that are unmarked," said Alan Hansen. "When you start off you need to decide who picks up whom and who then lets the other men go. Sometimes players follow the ball and attackers are able to find space. "

The problems that have been highlighted in recent weeks can best be tackled by intense preparation at Hurworth, the return of a keeper to whom the positioning and logic of the system is second nature and by the players charged with making it work applying themselves. More concentration, more determination and more steel in applying a tried and tested system that was so effective until recently is preferable to a kneejerk switch to an under-rehersed man-to-man method with two high stakes games looming. Now is no time for experimentation.

Comments (45)

BLT wrote...

No takers on this one then AV? Not enough scapegoating or digs at the neighbours.

For me zonal/man marking is not the point, it is about whether you good enough players to make either work.

Liverpool/Arsenal can make zonal work because they have excellent athletic defenders and some alert midfielders to pick up the runners and the second balls just like Man U can bring everyone back for corners because when it is cleared they have superfit Rooney/Ronaldo tearing after it.

Boro's problem this season has not been then the system but the players. We used it last year but this season the back four was new faces like Young/Wheater chopped and changed almost every week with Woody/Huth/Pogo taking turns to be out injured. No one had the time to get used to each other and the system.

It settled down round Xmas and we got a lot better but since then we have had probs with Taylor out, Huth out, new faces like Grounds in... you need everyone to know exactly what they and the others are doing and we havent had a settled side again.

It only takes one person to slip with zonal and it can be a right dog's breakfast and you get caught.

Your right that there is no point changing it now and causing more confusion. We can sort it in the summer if needs be. For Pompey and Citeh the best form of defence is attack.

Posted by: BLT  | April 30, 2008 9:35 PM

tonyblack wrote...

There aren't any takers yet as it's only advertised on the Gazette home page and isn't yet on the blog home page !

For me the answer is very simple and I agree with BLT.

Play to your own players individual strengths. Don't try to play to any particular system. Don't try to make a particular system fit your players. Pick a particular system / way of playing that suits your own individual players, that they are comfortable with and that above all plays to their own individual strengths.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | April 30, 2008 9:59 PM

Peter Holton wrote...

Speaking of sorting it in the summer, a little birdie tells me that Boro have signed Nicky Maynard from Carew Alexander..

Great eh, thats Europe in the bag next season then!

Posted by: Peter Holton  | April 30, 2008 11:54 PM

Holgate Ender wrote...

If it is creaking what do we do? Look to fix it or cross our fingers and hope it doens't creak, crack and collapse in on us in the next two games? Get it sorted!

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | May 1, 2008 8:25 AM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Interesting.

I'm with BLT and TB (that combination sounds like something that Environmental Health should be interested in!) on the point of defence and attack.

I'm not a huge fan of zonal but the whole issue would be academic and fine tuning if we could score goals.

The problem is thrown into higher relief because conceding even a single goal in most games consigns us to a draw at best. That's enormous pressure to put on any defence.

And on the occasions where we have got 2 away from home, we've conceded 3. I think that more of that is down to our none existant central midfield than it is to the defence.

System changes - if that's what going to happen - are best left for Summer. And, in addition to that we have to ensure that we have the right goalie and defenders in the squad in the transfer window.

The rest of this week has to be about making what we've got work. If we have been rumbled then we have to either counter that with our own 'tune up' or expect to suffer again against a team coached by 'Arry, Tony Adams and Joe Jordan who, individually and collectively, know a thing or two - including how to get the players to suit the system they want to play.

But it is possible and we know we can do it. The away win at Fratton this season was the most complete away performance of the season. We played them brilliantly.

O'Neil was a big part of that and he won't be around. Shawky was outstanding that day too - but Gate has taken to ignoring him again.

We need to watch out for Defoe and Diarra - the two biggest influences on the current Pompey side and who weren't around last December.

And let's give the defence some breathing space and score!

Posted by: John Powls  | May 1, 2008 9:00 AM

GeoffC wrote...

Are Pompey one of those bogey teams we haven't beaten at home in the Premier League?

I can't believe Southgates comment in last nights Gazette that he questioned the general feeling that this season has been a disappointing campaign for the Teessiders.

**AV writes: Due to constraints of space and time a couple of paragraphs got cut from the story at deadline which maybe unfairly changed the context of Southgate's assertion. Without quotes the claim seems to defy reality.

Here is the missing segment:....

As the season nears it’s close, the Boro boss also questioned the general feeling that this season has been a disappointing campaign for the Teessiders.

Despite losing key players such as Yakubu and Mark Viduka, Boro are close to once again clinching their place in the Premier League for next season and also reached an FA Cup quarter-final.

And this despite suffering from injuries, suspensions and having several new faces coming into the team.

“The thing we’ve got to ask is ‘has it been a disappointing season?’, Southgate said.

“Yes it maybe has been if you look at the league position. But with what we’ve had to contend with - the changes we had and the players we’ve lost - maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad achievement to finish where we are now.”

And Southgate feels the club are in a stronger position now for next season than they have been in previous campaigns.

“The progress of the club is important and I know that the foundations that are here now ahead of next season are better than we had at this point last year.”

Posted by: GeoffC  | May 1, 2008 9:27 AM

Ste Mac wrote...

The problem at Sunderland was Jones (Brad not Kenny). He terrifies me and he terrifies the defence. Even Poggy looks scared.

He usually doesn't come and when he does he drops it straight at one of the attackers feet. He hasn't got the physique or mentality to barge people out of the way to grab a cross.

You can't operate any defensive system when the main man is the weak link.

Posted by: Ste Mac  | May 1, 2008 10:07 AM

slugger wrote...

Is it a coincidence that our goals conceeded from set pieces has gone through the roof since selling Jonathan woodgate?

He wanted to go and at the time i agreed with the theory behind letting him go. But he needs replacing.

Brad jones is the worst keeper ever to grace the premier league. its never a surprise when we concede goals when he is in the team.

We have every man back for corners - this gives our opposition two corners for the price of one since once we clear the first ball, it falls to their team who again cross the ball in before our players have even left our own box.

I could accept this when we were water tight from set pieces - but now it seems a farce!!!!!

Posted by:  slugger  | May 1, 2008 10:14 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

I am posting without fully reading AV's thread or response so if I look a pillock at least it is all of my own making.

When we played Liverpool a year or so back Lawro was on MOTD analysing the goal we had scored. His view was that Liverpool were trying a new defensive method, intead of man to man or zonal marking they were employing no marking at all.

My long established view is that Zone has never scored against us and it isnt just this season where it is a problem.

Some observations without the benefit of multiple coaching badges but many years of watching Boro.

1. As far as I am aware zonal marking does not involve putting 11 men between the penalty spot and the goal.

2. At the next olympics the high jump will not be won by someone doing a standing jump by the bar, I suspect it will be won by someone with a conventional run up. Why do we expect our defenders to head clear in such circumstances?

3. Zonal marking should include the areas where the ball is likely to drop. How often have we seen the ball go to someone on the edge of the box.

Lee Clarks goal for Toon in injury time last season is an example. The Mackem winner where they were allowed N (where N is large, positive and tends towards infinity) touches on the edge of our box before crossing it back in.

4. Combining 2 and 3 surely there should be people blocking runs - see how Chelsea defend. Dunne thundered a header in for Citeh last season where he ran unmarked and headed in from 8 yards.

5. How can goalies come and punch or catch when all his teamates are in the six yard box. He may not get to the ball, he may miss punch it though even if he makes decent contact it is bound to be picked up by an attacker, if he catches it he will have to wait a couple of hours for the traffic to get out of the six yard box before he has someone to pass to.

6. Zonal marking requires discipline and people being available for out balls. It goes back to everyone behind the penalty spot again.

Whatever system we are using is pants at dealing with set pieces, I cannot understand how we can get 11 people in the six yard box and oppoenents still get yards of space.

We can grumble that we dont have anyone with striking experience to help the strikers, cant say the same about defenders.

Lets hope we score enough on Saturday to take defending out of the equation because teams know if they score they are likely to get at least a point.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 1, 2008 10:25 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

I just prey that we dont give city too many free kicks around the 25 yard mark as Elano loves to score against the Boro.

As for Pompy, well if we found Chopra a handful then Kanu and Defoe are even better. I am hoping to see the return of Alliadiere and even Shawky[ he played well against them in the away game]

I think Southgate will be working away on set pieces but I agree that the midfield needs tinkering with.

Alves and Tuncay upfront!
Johnson DOWNING Shawky Aliadiere
Taylor Pog Wheater Young
My Nan in Goal

If that is not working then move downing out left and bring in BOAT/Rocky/Arca inside. The whole problem is that we are always chasing games and bringing on Johnson late on does not give the lad much time to have a go.

Start as you mean to go on ,but I fear there is too much at stake with the points situation. Be Brave Gareth!

Johnson was unused against Sunderland too, we all know how well he did against Championship sides while he was on loan. He should have been on the right to provide us with pace and balance Downing.

In all key areas of the team this season we have had too much change and consistency has gone out the window.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | May 1, 2008 10:45 AM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Read your further explanation in response to GeoffC re the Gate quote. Sorry, but he's still talking nonsense.

Unfortunately, Tayls and the PR prople at MFC who prompt him haven't listened to the entreaties to shut up until the team have put up either, judging by the MFC website this morning.

From match to match they are all clearly living in a bubble which allows them this kind of freedom from the real world considerations that the rest of us have to contend with.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 1, 2008 11:16 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Read AV's original post and I dont feel a pillock so thats a relief.

The problem is rank defending.

Anyway, on to a point made by John about foot in mouth disease. If ever there was evidence of the benefit of keeping ones mouth well and truly buttoned it was last night. Good old Rafa has bleated on about Drogba falling over since the first leg, Mr Drogba came back and bit a huge chunk out of Rafa's bum.

Let us home our PR gurus pass the lesson on.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 1, 2008 12:49 PM

David Morrison wrote...

This zonal marking debate is utter tosh.

Basically what Luke Young is saying is that there is no one on the pitch able to spot a teams tactics against us in set piece situations thus casuing us problems.

This stems from the training ground where most of our preperation goes ahead. Take Bolton for example: every man and his dog knows they lump the ball up and pump set pieces into the box so you would expect if they are going to score it is going to be this way and so it proved.

Bolton must have had 5-6 set pieces that went into our box before they scored so why didnt any one take charge and say hey they are casuing us problems here lets change it otherwise they will score.?

For instance Rasiak was winning everything in the air so why not switch defenders on him or make sure there was a man in front of him to get the 2nd ball or at 1st cut out the ball up to him by pressuring the ball.

My point is it dosnt matter how you defend, it matters how you concede and the individual errors that lead to a goal.

Brad jones heaped untold pressure on the defence by being a calamity. Maybe Arca was in the wrong position for the goal, maybe we shoud have pushed out earlier and tried offside once the ball went back to the Sunderland player to cross. its all being taken out of proportion.

We need to stop talking the talk and our players grow up and realise they arnt as good as they think they are.

Posted by: David Morrison  | May 1, 2008 12:56 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Zonal Marking isn't the problem, it's the organisation of the defence and positioning of players within the Zonal marking template.

You don't stick a four stone midget in the middle of the box to protect your keeper because he is too short to win headers and too weak to protect the keeper from being barged and then becomes an obstacle to the keeper himself.

If your keeper can't command his box with confidence and collect balls in the air then forget Zonal marking as it won't work regardless of who has what Zone.

If we don't abandon this failing defensive tactic or rethink and reorganise it (e.g. leave Arca on the edge of the box ready to break away and attack, come on we don't need all 11 players in the box!) then watch Pompey on Saturday stick a big lad in front of Arca at corners and then just as the cross comes in barge him into whichever vampire we employ between the sticks allowing Pompey to score an invitation from inside the 6 yard box.

The most worrying thing is that the fans and opposition managers have seen this flaw for ages but neither Coops or Gareth could...............as ex defenders thats scary!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | May 1, 2008 1:50 PM

dek wrote...

Hi Anthony

I saw a photo of our goalie coming for a Sland cross. With his eyes closed. Guess what, they scored.

Please get a QUALITY keeper who is not Australian. And two midfielders. And a left back. And ATTACK!

Posted by: dek  | May 1, 2008 1:57 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Oh God! Is the Lawro jinx poised to strike again?

"Middlesbrough v Portsmouth

Middlesbrough have slumped in the last few games, but they just need one more concentrated effort to avoid relegation. Everybody knows you don't play at 100% when you are in the FA Cup final unless you are chasing something else. Pompey boss Harry Redknapp is resting one or two players, trying to get them ready for the Cup final and I think that's perfectly understandable.

Verdict: 2-0"

* He actually sounds vaguely sympathetic for once!

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | May 1, 2008 2:51 PM

David Morrison wrote...

redcar red,

Totally agree with every thing you have said.

Whats the matter with leaving players up the pitch and giving the opposition something to think about?

How many of our strikers have scored from headers this season? (Actually I dont know but I cant think of any goals that have been scored from headers apart from Wheater and Huth so it cant be many)

Leave Alves and Tuncay up the pitch which means the opposition must leeve 2 back maybe even 3 then have a 3rd player floating in midfield and 2 on the edge of the box covering flick ons and lay offs....

Is it really that simple?

Posted by: David Morrison  | May 1, 2008 2:55 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Dave

Arca, Tuncay and Aliadiere have also scored with headers.

On the subject of leaving players up field, getting a couple out of the six yard box would be a good starting point, getting them to the edge of our box brilliant.

Complicated stuff like giving the keeper someone to throw the ball to is a step too far at the moment.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 1, 2008 4:21 PM

BoroPhil wrote...

Tuncay v Reading away, Aliadiere v Man U away I can think of straight away, struggling after that.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | May 1, 2008 4:22 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

David Morrison

Alliadiere scored with his head at Old Trafford and Tuncay at Reading. Can't think of many more though ........

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | May 1, 2008 4:24 PM

Malc wrote...

David Morrison

Tuncay scored a great header at reading. I'll grant you though, we don't get many.

Posted by: Malc  | May 1, 2008 11:30 PM

David Morrison wrote...

So we have one of the best crossers in the premier league yet we have scored hardly any headers?

Is it any surprise then that we cannot defend set pieces properly, so why have them in there in the 1st place?

Leave Tuncay, Aliadiare up the pitch, Downing half way and maybe drop Aalves back to come from deep aswell.

Surely it cant be that complicated can it?

Posted by: David Morrison  | May 2, 2008 9:44 AM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Any comments on this piece, Vic? It's actually old news, since it appeared in last Saturday's "Daily Mail"!

Boro top of the list for Sidwell

By JOE BERNSTEIN

Middlesbrough have emerged as favourites to sign £5m on Chelsea midfielder, Steve Sidwell, this summer.

Sidwell, who has not played for Avram Grant since the FA Cup tie against Huddersfield in February, is a big admirer of Boro boss, Gareth Southgate, and believes there is huge potential for him at The Riverside alongside young English players such as Stewart Downing and David Wheater.

Aston Villa are the other leading candidates to tempt Sidwell away from Stamford Bridge. Newcastle, who have lost out to Spurs for Croatia star, Luka Modric, are equally likely to get nowhere in their pursuit of Sidwell. He rejected them to join Chelsea 12 months ago.

Ideally, the 25-year-old would like to play a major part at Chelsea next season, but that looks unlikely should Grant stay. Even if Frank Lampard is sold this summer, the club are likely to sign a replacement and also have Michael Essien, Michael Ballack, John Obi Mikel and Claude Makelele vying for places in central midfield.

Sidwell has not even been given a squad number for Chelsea's Champions League campaign this year. He has made only seven Premier League starts since signing on a Bosman free from Reading last summer.

**AV writes: A bit early for transfer speculation to be honest. Sidwell doesn't know which division Boro will be in next season or who will be Chelsea manager so I can't see it having got beyond the vague idea stage.

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | May 2, 2008 9:55 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

An important weekend of football coming up.

It is in our hands to put the relegation threat behind us. The weeks of 'it will be a bizarre set of results to send us down' posts now come back to haunt us. The defeats by Reading, Bolton and the Mackems in our keep us safe bankers have seen our cushion shrink. Two no shows in our remaining matches would put us in real jeopardy.

A good performance tomorrow, full of energy and commitment, lasting the full 90+ minutes should see us to safety.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 2, 2008 10:21 AM

Jordan wrote...

After watching that match I couldn't believe we don't have 15-16 year olds in the academy who would look more confident than Brad Jones.

In the summer we desperatley need a new keeper just so we can tell that big whining australian to pack his bags and naff off to Bayern. Don't get me wrong I do rate Turnbull but I'd prefer someone with a bit more experience and someone who is able to boss the defence around.

On another note what do u make of all this Alves stuff? Do you think the club is gonna have to cough up £6m?

**AV writes: No, it is nothing to do with the club. When the Dutch FA gave him internationall clearance it meant he was judged to have no outstanding obligations (fines, suspensions, contractual payments etc) to Heerenveen or the Netherlands football authorities.

They had already ruled that the AZ "contract" was not legally binding because Heerenveen had not signed it.

That means any outstanding action can only be civil action against an individual. AZ can maybe sue Alves for breach of contract but given the above they are unlikely to win.

That said, we could do without the distraction.

Posted by: Jordan  | May 2, 2008 11:00 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

It is an important weekend. I still think we have enough points to stay up as it is, although the teams below us do have winnable games, this weekend certainly. I can see Fulham beating Birmingham and possibly relegating them with a game to spare.

However, as has been suggested, if we fail to get at least a point tomorrow, we deserve everything we get, including relegation.

Pompey couldn't be more 'there for the taking' if they tried. I'm sure we'll do what we have to - another ground out one nil win would not surprise me at all.

Putting my more optimistic hat on, I've been saying all season that one day everything will click and we'll put five or six past someone. An early goal tomorrow and who knows. All the talk of relegation during the week has probably put paid to that however.

I'd play

whoever in goal

(incidentally, I wonder how many premiership teams have fielded three different keepers in successive games?

Young
Wheater
Poga
Taylor

Johnson
Shawky
Boateng / Cattermole
Downing

Alves
Tuncay

I'd put Rocky in for Boat/Catt as that midfield looks a bit defensive, but if he's off in the summer I don't really see the point in playing him. Arca needs to be sent on holiday early and that's it for our attacking midfield options.

Finally, I think Sidwell would be a great buy for £5m.


Posted by: BoroPhil  | May 2, 2008 11:14 AM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Agree that any speculation about who may be coming in is very, very premature.

First order of business is safety. After we're safe we can talk about how not to drop ourselves straight back in it next season - and that's more than just about which players we can get in.

There can't be many of them of the right quality, who will look at our plight this season and last and our prospects and who are going to be falling over themselves to come to Boro - well, for the right reasons.

One way to help is to retain the quality talent we already have (and get rid of those who haven't cut it).

So, it was very disturbing to read the rumours about O'Neil this morning. Can you shed any light, AV?

Throughout this season, when I have been roundly castigated by various foam-handers about pointing out the fact that we have been in the do-do or heading for it for most of the season and giving my view as to why, I have pointed out that I have only been saying things that Gate himself has said.

For those who conveniently forget this, you might look at Gate's most recent interviews.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 2, 2008 12:14 PM

buffaloboro wrote...

There were more tactics in that piece than a 'King Kev' half time team talk! Nice one.

Posted by: buffaloboro  | May 2, 2008 1:33 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

Not reading anything sinister - yet - into your lack of comment on the O'Neil situation.

The recall of Riggs seems to smack a little of desperation unless there's something we're not being told about Wheats or Pogo.

Has anyone asked the club to come clean on Huth yet? I think it's about time we got told the truth there. The constant parade of 'might be fit for the weekend/never is' has long since worn thin.

**AV writes: There have been rumours about O'Neil leaving since the day he signed. Ditto Young for his first six months and Tuncay too. This is Teesside.

I think the recall of Riggs is more to do with a lack of cover rather than the main two being doubtful.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 2, 2008 3:53 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Lets have a home win for Pete's sake!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | May 2, 2008 4:06 PM

john sully wrote...

Zonal defending is a disaster. Our centre halfs are massive . they should be man tight. enough said.

Posted by: john sully  | May 2, 2008 6:31 PM

tonyblack wrote...

WHEN WILL WE SACK THIS LOSER OF A " MANAGER "?

If GS even remotely thinks we've not a bad season then this sums up the current sad state of affairs at the club and the current sad lack of any ambition.

What a sad man he is. I just cannot express how much of a loser I think he is. Two games to go with still a real possibility of going down and the season isn't a bad one? Am I missing something here?

Not a bad season? My God...

And how come he's always talking about building NEXT year?

I really can't wait till we get rid of this dead beat.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | May 2, 2008 6:52 PM

Simon Mitchell wrote...

If Pompey have got one eye on the FA Cup Final, I for one think we should be pressuring them at every opportunity and getting really stuck in.

This does not mean being dirty, just good committed hard tackling. There can't be many players on their team wanting to go in hard and risk being injured for the cup final.

Has anyone else noticed that Alves has incredible touch. The ball he controlled and played through for Sanli to score against the Mackems was first class. So why don't we play balls in to his feet, rather than playing the long ball which he has to head? Maybe we should play to his strengths. Just a thought.

Posted by: Simon Mitchell  | May 2, 2008 7:23 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

I can never understand the logic of Boro never leaving players up the pitch to enable a breakaway attack. For me it should be Aliadiere and Downing on the basis of pace alone.

Alves is supposedly good in the air so let him take the near post (like the Duke did) at defending corners and put Arca on the edge of the box ready to clear up to Downing and Aliadiere.

As David Morrison stated if we have two up near the half way line the opposition need 3 back to cover. This leaves less congestion in our box (it may even enable our Keeper to catch instead of flap) and a clearance would then really be a clearance turning defence into attack instead of coming straight back at us.

Alternatively why not part Zonal and part tracking. In other words 2 up the pitch then one at the edge of the box (the one with the least physical presence!). That leaves 5 in Zones and 2 tracking following runs, anything but the current predictable obvious.

Like David said is it really that simple?.................... I think it is?

Posted by: Redcar Red  | May 2, 2008 7:48 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Sometimes one's impression of people is formed early in the acquaintance. So it can be with footballers.

Schwarzer, for example, seemed to very poor at kicking the ball for someone employed as a professional footballer, and didn't seem to jump high for someone so tall. As result, I seem to remember all those years ago that we conceded headed goals in the six yard box and I never felt confident that our keeper commanded the box.

After that I remember another keeper coming into the side (was it Crossley - memory possibly playing up and I'm not going to interrupt myself by looking it up to confirm?) and playing well, but then seeming to be dropped for no good reason.

I seem to recall Schwarz rattling the cage a couple of times when contracts were due for renewal, and effectively advertising himself as being open to offers to other clubs, though no offers were forthcoming so, surprise surprise, he signed for us again. Each time proclaiming his loyalty....or is that a trick of memory, too?

Now he has been with us for 10 years, but without being loved in the way players with lengthy terms of service often are. Gordon Jones, John Hickton, ever-present Spike, the incomparable Wilf (if your Dad is old enough to remember that far back)....and even ones who were not here quite so long but seemed loyal rather than have someone appear to hawk them around other clubs as transfer options.

Can you imagine Schwarz offering to take a paycut to stay at the club with the aim of proving himself still worth a place, and another contract, when the management thought he wasn't worth one?

As I said, sometimes impressions form early and the "feeling" one has for a player might never recover from that poor start. Fans may have it in for a player right from the beginning, not giving them a chance. That might be the case with Brad Jones and Turnbull. One thing is for certain, however: they don't have long to show their mettle.

It seems Schwarzer is going, and not too many will cry tears (although I know one supporter who insists he is the best keeper outside the top four teams - a surprise, then, that no-one ever came in for him when he was available). In that case, we cannot contemplate starting next season without a clear first choice and first class keeper.

That is more important than another striker, a ball-winning midfielder and a playmaker. A strong keeper is the foundation of a good defence and a good team. When Brian Clough went to Nottm Forest one of, if not his first, purchases was amongst his most important: Peter Shilton.

Get the goalie right, get the defence right, and that is the foundation for a good team. Of course if you don't get the goalie right, so the defence have no confidence, not even Mogga and Pally, nor even Cohen, Wilson or even Bobby Moore could keep many clean sheets.

With a less than World Cup winning defence (but hopefully one still improving), it may not be amazing that we have proved incapable of defending corners and free kicks. However this cannot go on, or we will be playing in the Championship.

Does anyone else feel that going to a game is getting a little like going to the dentist? You don't really want to go, and you remember previous experiences and are more than a little afraid. But you feel you must go. Was it meant to be like this?

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | May 2, 2008 10:20 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Hey, Vic, shouldn't you be in bed by now, instead of checking e-mails? Or are you waiting, with baited breath, for the results of the London Mayoral election?

Question is whether we will be smiling as much as Boris after tomorrow's game.

**AV writes: This blog never sleeps. The only result I am waiting with baited breath for is Boro v Pomey. And Bolton v Sunderland. And Fulham v Birmingham. Etc...

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | May 2, 2008 11:51 PM

Mohd Alan wrote...

AV

Are you sure that the nice Mr. Southgate was misquoted.

Perhaps he said:

" We really have had a terrific season, having won eight of our last thirty six matches and even five of them at home. We had a brilliant cup run beating some wonderful teams and away from home mind you, before going down in a thriller to a team that eventually proved how good they are by going on to the final.

"Can I pay special tribute to our midfield, especially Gary O'Neill whose tally of 0 goals has been such a help and the zonal marking of Julio Arca, one of my favourite players.

"Then we must single out those ever presents Mido and Huth for their sterling work in supporting the team. Having sold off non performers such as Woodgate, Viduka and Yakubu our incoming transfers have been a total success.

"I must give mention to the development of our youngsters here as well such as Cattermole, McMahon and Hines but let's not forget the contribution from the senior players such as Mendieta.

"We are so fortunate to have a goal keeper envied by many clubs and his understudies are ones to watch. We have learnt from our mistakes, blah, blah, blah"

Which planet is he, or me on?

Posted by: Mohd Alan  | May 3, 2008 7:00 AM

john sully wrote...

Mohd Alalan.

It is southgate who isn't allowing Mendieta to contribute. Everyone else has there chance to play. So less of the mendy bashing. On another note, why isn't Shawky back in the side? has proved to be a steady player.

Posted by: john sully  | May 3, 2008 1:19 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Not entirely convinced of a midfield of Downing, Tippy, Tappy, Boat. Lacks pace. With Pogo at left back we are a bit stilted both sides going forward.

A concern is how we are going to start on the front foot with such a line up. Almost seems an away, point will do team.

Still, come on Boro, lets get stuck in and get it sorted today.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 3, 2008 3:04 PM

Si wrote...

Vic, you can relax now. We did it, and we did it well.

My only disappointment is that we blew a great chance to score more than two goals in a game.

And that we could well lose O'Neil as well as Boat and Schwarz. That is, if you believe The Sun.

Posted by: Si  | May 3, 2008 5:08 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Well done Gareth for bringing back forgotten man Chrissy Riggot!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | May 3, 2008 5:55 PM

Holgate Ender wrote...

Hey Vickers, this blog got a real battering from angry Mackems on the Legends last night. Very funny.

**AV writes: So I believe. This is the best read blog on Wearside right now.

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | May 3, 2008 6:21 PM

malc wrote...

Let's buy English, please. Paul Robinson, Steve Sidwell, Tom Huddlestone and Shaun Wright-Philips would all do great. Let's get three of the four.

Can't wait to be rid of the two narrow headed Aussie goalies.

Posted by: malc  | May 3, 2008 6:37 PM

lauren wrote...

Boro are safe! 2 goals and a clean sheet!

Posted by: lauren  | May 3, 2008 8:18 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Mohd Alan-

Buy yourself a foam hand son and cheer up we are safe!

Dont blame Mendietta for not being played! Peoples idea of him are well out of order as when he has played for Boro the manager at the time played him out of position.

Like buying Peter Cech and playing him up front.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | May 4, 2008 10:32 AM

Post a comment

(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)

Advertiser