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Boro's Groundhog Day Disaster

Posted by on April 19, 2008 7:30 PM | 

GROUNDHOG Day. Bubbling Boro play some sparkling football in a one sided spell of total domination, carve out half-a-dozen clear cut chances, fail to take a single one and then slowly, inevitably, fatally hand over the the initiative then the game in a frustrating cycle of self-inflicted defeats. How many times have we seen that one played out now?

Boro battered Bolton for 20 minutes and could have been at least three up before the streaker made his appearance on the 25 minute mark. Had they scored then it would have drawn Bolton out, Boro would have had space to exploit and it could have been a massacre. Having drawn a blank during that blitz it became almost inevitable that Bolton would grow in confidence and start to fancy their chances. In the second half Boro barely mustered a shot that bothered the keeper while Bolton hit the bar, hit the post and had one cleared off the line before Gavin McCann stabbed home after a chaotic struggle amid groans of "typical bloody Boro!"

From the opening day against Blackburn onwards it has been the recurring story of the season. West Ham, Everton, Liverpool, Reading at home have all followed that script. Some have almost gone the same way: against Wigan and Derby Boro managed to make one of the chances count but then contrived to retreat into cautious, terrified defence anyway and almost let beaten opponents back in. Against Sunderland and Liverpool they did concede a point after failing to kill the teams off and inching into a nervous slo-mo late retreat.

Boro need to develop the cold killer touch of an Uzi toting hitman out to ice a crack turf war rival in a drive by. A more ruthless side, even one that did not play such a fluid beauty pageant passing game, could have turned those chances into six or nine or 12 more points this season. That is where we are lacking. Boro have spent £21m on strikers this season and have managed less than a goal a game. That is where the problem lies.

Beating Bolton would have left Bolton deep in trouble and all but secured Boro's survival. Now the gap between the teams is down to just five points and we are looking over our shoulders again going into the last three games. Losing at home to a poor, poor side, one with a death wish and who have looked doomed and even more flaccid in front of goal than Boro since selling Anelka, is a massive own goal. The good will generated by the Manchester United and Spurs games has had a cold harsh bucket of reality thrown on it. And that at a time when the season ticket renewal forms are flopping onto doormats and memories of Cardiff were just fading.

Gutted. But not completely surprised. Some observations:

Mad Dogs of War: It was a blood splattered clash (as they tend to be against Bolton)... especially for Gary Cahill. The black and blue Wanderers man needed treatment after Emanuel Pogatetz, looking for a Kevin Davies substitute, put the nut on the back of his head as they went up for an aerial duel and then he had to go off for stitches in his napper after a another nasty collision with team-mate Cohen. Raziak went off dazed and with a bleeding head after another friendly fire incident in the Bolton box and a bruising first half featured three long hold-ups, a physio sprint race and season record seven minutes added time.

Penalty Clause? You don't want to bang on about it for fear of being branded whinging, paranoid one-eyed bad losers but what will it take for Boro to get a penalty? After the Luke Young "handball" at Villa set the standard for intent fairly low, Boro have had a string of far stronger claims waved away. And alright, the bobble up onto Matt Taylor's hand maybe not. And the shot into the box that clipped a white sleeve in the first half, well, OK, benefit of the doubt. But when Stewy Downing's ball into the box deflected onto McCann's arm in the box he saw it coming and had plenty of time to get out of the way. It was stonewall. And that was at 0-0.

Winging It: Jeremie Aliadiere had a storming first half as a makeshift right winger that may offer a way out of the selection headache the gaffer faces in accommodating his creative forces of Alves, Tuncay, Downing and the jet-heeled Frenchman. Drafted in to replace Gary O'Neil in a wide role he was highly effective. His pace terrified Bolton, he cut in to link up superbly with Alves or offer an extra body in the box and had the legs to get back and close down when the opposition got down the flank, several times racing back 20, 30, 40 yards to put in a tackle - once in his own box! His speed, control and vision can still hurt teams out there and that offers a possible long term solution to the right wing problem (possibly freeing up finance for investment elsewhere) and also some interesting tactical options.

Keeper Up With The Joneses: Ross Turnbull was a positive. He couldn't do much about the goal having blocked the initial Cahill header and maybe he was caught out of position for the chip to the far post that Young had to head off the line, but generally he watched his angles well, made some good saves from shots from the edge of the box (the kind that have routinely flown in unimpeded this term), was quickly off his line and commanded his often crowded box with a confidence that belied his lack of experience at this level.

Brad Jones terrifies me when he is in goal and strikes me as good for at least one major dropped blob per game and gives the impression that the defence are jittery too, but Turnbull seems solid. He did well when he played in the 1-1 draw at Reading and 2-1 win over Arsenal and seems brave and confident. Schwarzer missed the game with a back injury - a freak book signing incident was the cruel press room speculation - and as the ageing Aussie's status at the club is yet to be resolved the gaffer should take the opportunity to give Turnbull a run in the last few games, critically assess whether he has what it takes. It could save a few bob and sharpen the focus on both sides of the table when Skippy next talks turkey on a new deal.

Briefs Interlude: On a day of disappointments the "streaker" caught the mood of the moment and failed to deliver. Firstly he kept his shreddies on. Not that anyone particularly wanted to see the works but if you are going to do it at least give it your best shot. Secondly, the whole enterprise seemed totally aimless and having hopped out of the East Stand and crossed the pitch he seemed lost. There was no jovial attempt to hug a player, no cheeky British Bulldog with stewarsd and police. As the team were to do later, he ran out of ideas and steam and just fizzled out and waiting to be ushered down the tunnel. After the game while I waited for quotes from players (a new season's record of 56 minutes after the whistle by the way) I spoke briefly to the arresting officer who said the streaker explained his actions sheepishly by saying: "It was just one of those things you have to do before you die."

Comments (89)

Si wrote...

Ah, Vic... I used the same blog title as you did not too long ago!

I actually used it when we beat Derby 1-0, for that game, for me, was just like the Wigan and Fulham home games.

And of course, as you say, other home games, like those against West Ham, Reading and Everton have been a little like that too; we've started well then deterioriated to the point where we're not able to kill the opposition off.

The difference is, Derby, Wigan and Fulham didn't make us pay for it like those other teams did. (Sunderland and Liverpool I'll exclude from this argument; in the former, we were undone by a dreadful beginning and end and some very aggressive Sunderland football; in the latter, a moment of class from Torres undid us.)

And no, I'm not completely surprised either. Only last week I'd written "All we have to do is not revert to type and lose to Bolton next week." Wish I'd kept my mouth shut...

I've also made the point, and I'll make it here too for yourself and the other readers, that our inability to kill teams off while we're in the ascendancy is getting REALLY old.

I've also wondered if we'll have to recall Dong Gook Lee for us to start scoring again. After all, he was our top scorer in cup competitions, and scored against lower league teams where Tuncay, Ali, Alves and Mido all failed. (I wish I was joking, but I'm actually partly serious.)

Posted by: Si  | April 19, 2008 10:13 PM

Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono) wrote...

At the end of the gameso many "vociferous" Boro fans are letting off steam about the Boro losing to Bolton on FMTTM.

Its a pity that so many of these part time so called fans cant be bothered to go to the game themselves isn't it!

Posted by: Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono)  | April 19, 2008 10:48 PM

Pedro de Espana wrote...

No excuses from that performance,we were just not good enough!! The midfield in my opinion does not have sufficient alternatives, and in the end it was the same big kick forward.

And for GS to say we are OK in defence, again another rank piece of really poor marking.

I feel so sorry for Steve Gibson, he comes out with new initiatives,and with one game they are confined to the rubbish bin. He will need a magic wand after that.

Posted by: Pedro de Espana  | April 19, 2008 10:50 PM

Dave2 wrote...

McClaren 2 fa cup semi finals,1 uefa cup final,1 carling cup win,1 7th place and european football with that.

Southgate, 2 x relegation scraps, sold best defender and 2 best strikers.

Posted by: Dave2  | April 19, 2008 10:51 PM

mohd alan wrote...

A.V.

Typical

Posted by: mohd alan  | April 20, 2008 1:03 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Play a half, any half.

Classical Boro, if it was an auction the auctioneer would say ‘what do have for this fine example of typical Boro, it features 45 minutes of football, a failure to score and then letting the opposition take control and score. It even includes the obligatory 20 minutes of huffing and puffing to no effect after going behind’

We ran them ragged for 25 minutes then the action calmed a tad. As the first half ended Bolton had had a couple of chances. Second half was a mirror image of the first with us not getting out of our half and they could easily been out of sight by the time they scored.

The moral is that if you don’t score then you are in trouble. I don’t think we will go down but it was a real slap in the face for the fans especially following the initiatives on tickets.

Interestingly I didn’t stop at Wetherby, watch half a match, pay half price for my ticket and drive home to Derby.

Good results for Brum and Sunderland will suck us further into the mire. We were all aware it could happen whether some were willing to accept it or not. It is a case of rolling our sleeves up and getting something from Sunderland whilst continuing to let down the Riverside fans on a regular basis.

The fans around me were generally elderly - like me - and the gentleman next to me was blind but came to the matches with his wife. He listened to the commentary on his radio, as the match difted into the last minute of injury time I asked him if it was any better on the radio. He replied 'no its rubbish.'

As I headed back to the cheerful drive back to Derby I listened to the fans talking of how few times they had left the ground with a buzz. Of the live matches I have attended I can recall the odd half and even half a half where we have performed.

The problem we have now is that we are relying on our traditional end of season flourish to finally banish relegation, our performances wilt at the same time as the daffodils and of course season ticket renewals.

The club seem to specialise in PR own goals just as inniatives are announced.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 20, 2008 8:33 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

And a postcript.

I dont think we will go down, without doing all the permuations it is an unlikely end to the season. In a previous thread someone had a go that some of us discussed there was a possibility.

At the time I posted that I said they should ask what Gate thought when he played for Palace and they were nine points clear with three matches left, then ask him what they thought when they went down.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 20, 2008 8:47 AM

tonyblack wrote...

AV, not wanting to ruffle your feathers as I fully understand your position, but without wanting you to be being political or controvertial, what do you see as being required to solve these age old problems ?

Do you see it as being just a case of strikers not taking their chances or are there more fundamental issues that need addressing ?

If it is also a case the latter how would you address them ?

TB

**AV writes: On the pitch we need a leader or two that can take the game by the scurf of the neck and change the tempo and shape by force of will, who refuses to let the game drift. We haven't had a player like that since Paul Ince. That is where I would spend heavily in the summer.

Posted by: tonyblack  | April 20, 2008 10:04 AM

Andy wrote...

McClaren - Cup success, "Phenomenal" performances every week, Euro Success.

Yet give me Southgate every time. At his worst Southgate tells it like it is. At his (and the team's) best we produce fluid, dynamic and exciting football.

Yesterday we didn't get the final result, its happened a lot this season (and last) but I believe in GS. I believe that he is looking for excellence at every level and will in time address the deficiences in the side. I believe in the style of football that we're playing and I firmly believe that he has the potential to be a very good manager.

My hope is that he fulfills that potential with a successful Boro side that plays exciting and energetic football.

Under Southgate I've enjoyed watching the football again. I guess the hard bit is now getting the success that follows on from that.

Posted by: Andy  | April 20, 2008 11:54 AM

stockton red wrote...

A recurring theme this season is just when we appear to take a tentative step forward it is followed by a kick in the proverbials.

Arca 's form appears no better now than before he was dropped. He is not quick or strong enough and wants too much time on the ball.He should be left out.

Steve Gibson must be tearing his hair out.He has done what he can with the ticket pricing but desperately needs performances on the pitch to give people genuine hope that there is something other than another relegation battle to look forward to next year.

The players have 3 games and in particular the last two home games to give the fans some optimism.I forever live in hope but would not like my mortgage dependant on it.

Posted by: stockton red  | April 20, 2008 12:06 PM

Si wrote...

The stats say it all.

11 wins in more than 40 (yes, 40!) league games since my first visit to the Riverside.

When I booked my tickets for that visit, the game against Man. City in March '07, I was naturally optimistic. We had an excellent home record, Woody was a rock at the back and we had one of the more statistically successful strike forces of the season (if not the best) to lead the line.

And City had lost something like five or six games in a row leading up to the match.

Then Boateng went and stuck his hands up during the FA Cup quarter final, ensuring we'd have to go through a reply we'd stand little chance of winning anyway... and the FA cynically scheduled this replay just TWO DAYS after the City match, meaning 'Boro wouldn't have their minds fully focused on the City match!

Needless to say we lost both games and the team hasn't really been the same since. Viduka doubled his tally of league goals in the closing games of the season to paper over the cracks (and cynically put himself in the shop window). There's a chance that after the City game, both him and Yak had suddenly decided to jump from what they now saw as a sinking ship...

And with them gone, our cutting edge - and Woody's optimism for our future - went too. Now him and the Yak will both play for Premier League clubs in Europe next season. There's no doubt about that. While we're not even sure of our place in the Premier League yet.

As I type, Villa's rout of Birmingham has presented us with another chance we don't really deserve on yesterday's no show... now if THEY lose or draw to Liverpool, and we win against the Black Cats, we're OK.

But do you want to bet on it?

Posted by: Si  | April 20, 2008 2:20 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

TB

Maybe we need to follow John Powls wish and put Johnson out left and move Downing inside. He has good control, a wide range of passing, tends to hit the target and has pace. His tackling is no worse than Arca's!

The problem we have is drive in central midfield. Boat will battle all day but his passing is not incisive nor does he strike the ball well.

At least Brum got beaten and Sunderland are losing. I will go back to painting, I should have done it yesterday but went to the match. Shame really, I could have watched it dry. Should I do a second coat or do a Boro and only do half a job?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 20, 2008 2:41 PM

jc wrote...

Just as you, I, and all the other Boro fans were thinking how inevitable the outcome was, the same sense of foreboding was clearly infecting the players' minds too.

Unfortunately, it is not a good motivating force; rather, it tends to make people nervous and resigned to defeat.

This is the attitude which has to somehow be changed, first in the players, then in the crowd. It's easy to say that success breeds success and that once we start winning we'll lose the mentality, but I think this virtuous cycle needs to be jump started. It's easier written than done, however.

SR's right about Arca, he had a poor game, just as I was hoping he was getting back to some kind of form. He should have been replaced by Rocky in the second half. And I thought taking off Tuncay was a mistake, as his invention in the Bolton half was what we most needed to create an equaliser.

On Aliadiere as a winger - can he cross? Beckham never had pace, rarely got into the box, rarely tracked back to tackle (at least, not effectively), but was very effective on the right. For all of Aliadiere's qualities, he's not the world's best passer / crosser. As one of an attacking threesome, maybe, but he won't add much width.

Lastly, this Ince-like midfield general we all agree we need, who has to be both creative (to replace Rocky if he goes, or Arca when he's having a bad hair day) and combative (for when Boateng's legs give out) - it's a tall order, and no one really springs to mind for me.

So do you or any of the posters have any thoughts on who might fill this role (hopefully some Teesside lab has secretly cloned Patrick Viera...)

Posted by: jc  | April 20, 2008 3:33 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Well lets be honest deep down we knew Boro would implode yesterday in "Typical Boro" fashion.

I sat in the South stand and honestly thought we would see a goal-a-thon after the first 5 minutes. Then after 15 minutes with 0-0 on the scoreboard you could sense the inevitability of it all around the stadium.

Our main problem is the dependency on strikers who clearly are not and never will be prolific. Tuncay for me is the replacement we need for Arca in midfield, he tackles, he runs and runs, he closes down and never gives up on "lost" balls. He could then offer a token threat as a goalscorer going forward, maybe chipping in with 4 or 5 a season.

Aliadiere looked to be very comfortbale wide right until he was clobbered. He got back and supported Young with a few telling tackles and may offer us a "right sided Downing" next year again with a few token goals to boot.

That leaves the Boat, O'Neil, Shawky, Johnson and Clattermole for the other midfield spot and back up (assuming Rocky is gone and Arca heads back up the A19 come July).

Up front then would be only Alves and Mido and that's where any funds we have in the summer need investing. We desperately need an unsophisticated blood and guts striker who puts a "Toey knobbler" on everything that comes near him in and around the the box combined with the aerial ability and bravery of Wheats.

Onto the game itself, the frustration yesterday of watching midfielders frightened of hitting it on the volley and strikers who had skates instead of studs on their boots, slipping and sliding around on their backsides put new boundaries on frustration.

I observed a bizarre Boro defensive tactic where Nolan blatently blocked off Turnbull who seemed willing to accept it itstead of creating a rumpus prior to the corners and in so doing drawing the Ref's attention to what was going on.

Instead we decided to put the most miniscule and lightweight player of our entire squad (including the 14 year olds) in front of Nolan who attempted to outmuscle him. It was farcical and emmbarrasingly inept, Turnbull needs to wise up and toughen up quickly and Coops and Southgate need to sort out the defence at set pieces..........it was appalling!

Just hope nobody has paid out yet for those 3 year season tickets. I don't think this squad has the stomach for a fight and if recent history is anything to go by then I doubt if the derby will offer us any relief leaving us with two home games in an anxiety charged Riverside.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | April 20, 2008 5:34 PM

ian Gill wrote...

jc

The problem we have in central midfield doesnt need solving by Superman.

Boat is an admirable player but distribution and ball control are not his strong points, nor does he have blistering pace or a terrific shot. If we could get a Boat replacement who could improve on his weak points that would be great. Clattermole doesnt seem to have come on though he has time on his side.

We need a box to box player plus a creative player alongside which is why I resurrected Powls view about Downing.

The other problem is getting players in, assuming we stay up, because we are competing with bigger clubs, clubs in europe and clubs with super rich owners. It wont be easy.

Posted by: ian Gill  | April 20, 2008 5:44 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Bolton's keeper Ali Al Habsi was man of the match and that says a lot!

I was well happy when I aw Alves, Tuncay, Alliadierre and Downing starting the match and between them we had Bolton on the ropes completely early on .

In fact half of our team should have scored all in the first 9 minutes.Wheater twice, Arca, Taylor, Tuncay and Alves.
I am up for the idea of playing Downing inside Johnson.

Team;
Alves,
Tuncay in a free role
Johnson,Downing, Shawky,Alliadierre
Taylor ,Pog, Wheats,Young
Turnbull.

At the moment we are looking at other peoples results to help us too much.

We need a 95 min performance every game like against Man U. Man U are gonna win the league because they fight right to the end of every match.

I didn't like the Bolton player pushing our defender onto Ross Turnbull for the goal is that allowed or am I starting to sound like Wenger .

We created enough chances to win again but after the goal doesnt come the players and the crowd lose belief and change a winning formula.

Up the Boro

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 20, 2008 7:17 PM

dave2 wrote...

Only an idiot of a manager would move on viduka and yakubu and replace them with Tuncay and Aliadiere. So you would rather watch southgate Andy? god help us all.

Posted by: dave2  | April 20, 2008 7:48 PM

MARK wrote...

Am still gutted. After moving back home from years of military exile I forked out for the remainder of two season tickets. The boys now view going to the game as a "What have I done wrong to deserve this can I not go to the dentist instead" punishment.

And have got to say that if we can not, consistently, put away teams that we deem to be beneath us at home then we are going to struggle.

First 20 mins were fab. Just because we were not up at half time did not give the team an excuse to capitulate, give up on trying to pass the ball and resort to hitting long balls.

Some of the pressure naturally comes from the stand. But I have been watching the boro at home (and from military exile) and away for 30 years now and have got to say that this was the first ever game I left early (that includes Reading). All this on the day my season ticket renewal landed on the doormat..............

Posted by: MARK  | April 20, 2008 9:30 PM

Richard wrote...

So, the football conundrum that is Boro strikes (or doesn’t!) again!

How “typical� that on the day the season ticket application renewal invitations begin to drop through letterboxes of Teesside residences that Boro conspire to provide the best of reasons not to renew!

How capricious can one football club be? Boro – the team with PMT! You just never know which Boro will turn up!

We have to endure “Typical Boro� inconsistency, few runs, if any, of back-to-back wins and home performances which flatter for perhaps twenty minutes only to deceive over the full ninety.

Like many, I’m trying to make sense of my season ticket renewal. I’m going through the now annual torment of “Will I or won’t I?�

As a consequence of Saturday’s performance against Bolton, I’ve decided the following……

Best not decide this week!

Best leave it a few days until the brain chemical imbalance induced by the latest Riverside trauma dissipates and “normal� cerebral service is restored. Maybe then I’ll take a more reasoned view of whether to renew or not.

However, reading AV’s blog and thinking what I might contribute to any discussion after our latest disappointment, I’ve been giving some thought to what it is that drives me each year to come back. In doing so, I’ve hit on something I hadn’t quite caught onto before.

To those for whom the following is a bit obvious, I apologise for perhaps being a bit myopic, but I suspect there are a few others out there that might resonate with me.

My personal revelation is this…………

It’s HOME performances I pay to see when I buy MY season ticket. I don’t travel to away matches, I consider that I spend enough on football without doubling my expenditure by travelling every other weekend.

So, what I’m now considering is what I’ll get when I attend Boro home matches at The Riverside Stadium. Not necessarily what Boro get up to when they travel away (although I’d prefer to support a club that can be successful away from home as well).

What I’m buying into is, primarily, the same seat each fortnight, irrespective of what the performance is like. So what does the club offer me as a match-day experience? What do they contribute to my enjoyment and feeling that I’ve spent wisely?

Well, I’m not an unreasonable person, but I think that I expect Boro to do significantly better at the Riverside than on their travels. Because that way, I get more stuff to cheer about! And that’s what I want!

I want to see Boro, live, being successful at the Riverside. If they won all their home matches and lost all their away matches, I’d be happier than I am now. And Boro would be higher up the table than they are now! So, everyone would be happier! And crowds at the Riverside would be likely to be bigger too. Because people like me would want to come to matches to see Boro do well at the Riverside.

I suspect Boro would make more money from that as well, rather than whatever incremental amounts they’d perhaps lose from any adjustment to away ticket sales.

Although I’m naturally pleased when Boro do well away from home, I would happily sacrifice any good away performances for a few more good home ones. Because that’s likely to make me feel that I’ve put money into something worthwhile and got something back for it. (That’s until FIFA decide to award more points for away wins than home ones of course! – and THAT’s not going to happen anytime soon!)

This may sound mean and selfish, and even treasonous to some, but I don’t want to feel that I’m shelling out and subsidising the travelling army’s match-day experience – even though they’re ostensibly on my side!

Because I don’t get to experience that! I can watch MOTD or even watch it on (spit) Sky and catch the highlights and perhaps wish I’d been there. But my gut-reaction is ironically and perversely still likely to be tempered by a feeling of being let down. Why can’t they do THAT at the Riverside and give ME value for MY money??

There’s one final point I feel the need to share. I’m not sure why, but I think it’s because I don’t like being manipulated - although I can fully understand why it’s being done!

Much as I may enjoy it, I won’t be swayed by any DVD content showing Boro’s highlights of the Riverside era and Steve Gibson laying it on thick (I’m writing this before I’ve received mine and therefore haven’t yet seen it – but I think I caught snippets of it on the concourse TVs on Saturday - so I’m perhaps being a bit unfair to Steve Gibson!).

Why not? Well, I don’t need reminding about the good times any more than I do about the bad - like Saturday – which, if you’re a Boro supporter, seems to occur far more often than the really good stuff!

I wonder how much Steve Gibson would appreciate a compilation DVD showing the Carling Cup Final losses, the FA Cup Final loss, The Eindhoven UEFA Cup Final loss, the final match of the relegation season, the repeated humiliations at the Riverside by Aston Villa year on year and the 2007-8 FA Cup Quarter Final against Cardiff City, dropping through his letterbox?

In the words of one of Middlesbrough’s most famous sons – “Not a lot!�, I imagine.

I suspect that much of this sounds a bit negative, but that’s how I’m feeling currently, just having seen the latest opportunity for Boro evaporate in front of my eyes, live and in real-time.

The latest carrots to have been dangled in front of the team, Premier League safety (guaranteed), residual embers of hope of a top ten finish and North-East bragging rights, by finishing above Newcastle and Sunderland all are receding into the distance as Boro stutter to another weak season-end.

Am I up for it again next season? Still to be decided, but………..

Probably!

Now who’s capricious?

Posted by: Richard  | April 21, 2008 1:26 AM

Mike B wrote...

Having failed at almost everything else this season the only thing left for us to keep our heads held high and carry us forward to next season was to finish the highest team in the north east.

With three games left I think we can kiss that goodbye.

Posted by: Mike B  | April 21, 2008 7:38 AM

Ste Mac wrote...

Typical Boro. I am pig sick of reading how great we are at away games and how great we have done against the big boys and then paying out good money to watch them do that time after time.

We should not be in this situation going to the mackems with three games left and still not safe. If we had scored in any two of the ten games we “dominated� we would have been safe weeks ago.

Boro are in a transitional decade.

PS Don’t agree about Turnbull. For me he’s not good enough, not physical enough. Maybe he can stay as a reserve but we need to replace both Skippy and Ross from Friends.

Posted by: Ste Mac  | April 21, 2008 9:12 AM

Greeny wrote...

Because of a major anniversary, didn`t see the game, didn`t see the highlights and then didn`t read a review until now.

Several of us on last weeks blogs said that the run in-games were critical for Boro and Southgate. Well, the jury is still welll and truly out.

By the sound of things, motivation wasn`t initially a problem, but then it became the same old story. Why? Because, despite all Gibbo's cash, the Gate hasn`t even come within sniffing distance of solving the goal scoring problem.

Sounds like we had a bit of bad luck with a penalty decision but we have been saying that all season. The fact is, the performance of this team under Southgate is costing the club dear and all of our and Gibson's money have done nothing to fix that.

Maybe Southgate will come good - we all hope he does, but the damage being done now may well be irreversible. Not only will Southgate lose the fan's confidence, he will "lose the dressing room", to use an overwoked phrase.

Posted by: Greeny  | April 21, 2008 9:19 AM

David Morrison wrote...

richard,

I think you are in the same boat as me, I dont have a season ticket, i havnt held one for 5 years. (all due to mcclarens magnificent football may I add) I was seriously contemplating getting back on the horse so to speak and backing them next season by renewing my season ticket
however saturdays result has convinced me that I wont be renewing next year.

It is the "typical Boro" syndrome but im not paying £400 to watch games like saturday. I've been to home games against Reading, Fulham, Derby, West Ham, Blackburn, Sunderland, Newcastle, Birmingham, Chelsea.

The reason why I have gone back for more is due to results like Portsmouth, Spurs, Man Utd, Arsenal in the hope that I can see the fotball I would pay to watch.

Yet Ive seen, tentative, unexciting, edgy and poor football everytime (Birminhgam apart) so why should I wanna sit through that next year.

I dont and the result on saturday has made me see the light, we are not the best team outside the top four, we are not the best team in the bottom half of the table, we arnt even the best team in the north east.

It was a perfect chance to show me i the future yet im as dissapointed as anyone....

Typical Boro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | April 21, 2008 9:21 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

I believed that Boro would win comfortably against Bolton and the way we started it looked more than likely.

But after 20 minutes they seemed to decide it wasn't their day and reverted to enigmatic Boro - a tag that is now nationally recognised and probably needs trademarking.

I agree with the analysis that the problem lies in midfield and it must be a priority this summer.

Arca just doesn't do it for me. Ian Gill has raised the play Downing inside solution again - my reservation was his tackling but I agree it's no worse than Arca's and everything else in his game is better - so why not give it go and allow Johnson to play on the left!

Also, I think the lack of a dynamic box-to-box midfielder needs addressing - I would push the boat out and go for Sidwell this summer.

I also agree with a lot of what Redcar Red said - Tuncay is an attacking midfielder, perhaps in the Ashley Young role.

Ali is also never going to be a prolific striker but his pace is a weapon on the right wing.

OK, I don't think relegation is too likely - if we get one more point then Brum, Bolton and Reading will all need to win 2 of their last three games - which is highly unlikely.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | April 21, 2008 9:26 AM

BoroPhil wrote...

Just to re-emphasise the point - not at any stage this weekend were we in danger of going down. It would have taken/will take a set of results which would defy belief, even if we lost our final three.

It was embarassing to see some people panic on message boards and the like over the weekend.

As for the result, disappointing yes, but we all know it could/should have been so much different. We were unfortunate not to score at least once in the opening stages and after that nothing really went our way.

The reaction of the crowd was deflating - some people just can't wait to get on the backs of the players.

A related point - when exactly did our fans lose any notion of patience? The grumblings that emerge when we pass it sideways/backwards instead of constantly forwards are simply ridiculous. Is it any wonder we sometimes resort to long balls?

The performance of the fans gave me more cause for concern on Saturday than the players. This set of players will turn performances into results, I have no doubt. Whether this set of fans will give them the opportunity to do so, I just don't know.

Posted by: BoroPhil  | April 21, 2008 9:38 AM

stockton red wrote...

Richard as usual makes a very valid point.

I will be renewing my tickets but our home form must be the worst since we have been in the Premier League. Five wins, seven defeats, an average of one goal per game.

Can you believe that at the north end of the ground we have seen one league goal since the Arsenal match!!!

Its no wonder people are cheesed off. I have to concede their was some truth in John Powls observations last week. We flatter to deceive. We look as though we have the ability at times to be a good side but rarely deliver.It's so bloody frustrating!!!

Posted by: stockton red  | April 21, 2008 9:38 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

It is a quandry faced by many home fans, it is also a problem for people living away.

Personally I cant justify a season ticket not least in terms of time. Saturday's match basically wiped my day out and I have other calls on my time.

I can guarantee that many years of 50% split between home and away matches have taught me one thing - this season has been an oddity.

The norm has been pitiful, gutless away peformances, many lost 1-0 after attempting to play 4-6-0 and going behind only to fail in our 30 minutes of attacking at the end.

The problems at the moment are confused by perceptions as against hard facts.

1. We are trying to play more attacking, attractive football. Fact - we are not scoring goals.

2. We brought in pacy, attacking players. Fact - Viduka and Yak have not been replaced and we are missing their goals

3. We are playing better than last season. Fact - we are going to finish with fewer points and a lower league placing in a poorer league.

4. The club are trying hard to improve match day. Fact - fans are still not attending.

5. fans pay out for attractive football. Fact - half a match at best for 90+ minutes pricing.

The dilemna is both sides are correct. The club is trying to progress but results and performances are not showing it.

Away from the Riverside the team are set up to play pacy football on the break, at home the onus is on breaking sides down. If we dont score the opposition soon suss out the fact score one and you will get at least a point, hang on and we run out of steam.

So fans like yourself keep going home disappointed. Giving such an early season ticket deadline would be fine if we were well and truly safe. Sending it out now is irritating fans, those around me werent happy.

Then of course is the question of who we are competing with for players in the summer. Finish in the bottom 5 or 6 and you have lost prize money and look to be in for a relegation battle next year.

To stand still is to go backwards, to progress we need to get in players who will be looking at Spurs, Everton, Toon, Villa, Citeh, Pompey, the Mackems even. Clubs with substantially more money than us, with apparently more potential than us, maybe in europe.

We need Mido fit and Alves, Tuncay, Alliadiere to score goals. Rocky will go, Boat and Swarz may go as well. Arca is having a bit of a torrid time. Huth seems no nearer to full fitness.

It is very tricky.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 21, 2008 9:46 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Dicky, Keep yer packer up old boy.
Capricious = time of the month

I am still watching the directors cut of the latest trilogy 'Boros greatest misses 2007-8.'

There are plenty of ooh's and aah's but no goals, there is even a special edition disc of penalties NOT GIVEN to Boro this season and a free poster of the close up shot of the ball hitting Luke Youngs back at Villa!

Will somebody please put the ball in the net!

Are we trying too hard to score when the ball lands at a Boro players feet, and blasting it instead of placing the ball sweatly away from the keeper?

Can we have a bit of calm in front of goal please - infront of goal the team seems anxious blast it in maybe?

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 21, 2008 10:07 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Or maybe Ali Al Habsi just had a blinder.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 21, 2008 10:08 AM

NIGEL BYTHWAY wrote...

Hi, Nigel again from sunny Perth wa .

Another weekend when I have to endure the rants of every premier league ex pat in perth for yet another Boro clanger. I gave my opinion earlier this year Gareth great guy, Gibbo legend, but together I believe a recipe for disaster

Gareth has simply shown again that when the players are not playing the big teams when they motivate themselves, he has not got the ability to motivate them when its needed most against the also rans.

This has been shown so many times this season that even the mackems and geordies here are asking about Gibbo's sanity. Dont worry I will defend him to the death but it is becoming increasingly difficult.

Your steadfast belief in Gareth as a good future manager will end in tears, mark my words.

Posted by: NIGEL BYTHWAY  | April 21, 2008 10:08 AM

Terry Simpson wrote...

That was a thoroughly disgraceful performance from a bunch of overpaid lazy gets!

**AV writes: Don't you say that every week?

Posted by: Terry Simpson  | April 21, 2008 10:21 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Ignorant

My guess it was a mixture of the keeper and our strikers.

Three of his four early saves were well struck shots but because of the position of the attacker were rising and close enough for him to stretch out and throw a hand at the ball. Oddly a scuffed shot near his feet may have scored.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 21, 2008 10:37 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Aah, You re right Gilly!

All part of the weird and Wonderful Boro again. I think after the goal never came after the opening 20 mins we all got a bit frustrated.

Who knows what the next game will bring, but that is not a complaint. The way we are going though we are likely to appear in a verse of Elanis Morrisette's song Ironic.

And just before anyone starts thinking I listen to a lot of 'That type of thing ' in my spare time, you can forget it as I am more of a Fall man myself!

**AV writes: Kicker Conspiracy-ah.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 21, 2008 11:26 AM

Never Happy wrote...

The strikers hit the target on Saturday, it was just that the Bolton keeper played a blinder.

The disappointing bit was that we only played for 30 minutes again. However despite this we still could have taken the lead but for another abysmal decision against the Boro from the referee.

The games left for the teams who are still in the relegation mire are listed below. I would not swap our fixtures for any of the other teams around us

Birmingham v Liverpool
Fulham v Birmingham
Birmingham v Blackburn

Sunderland v Middlesbrough
Bolton v Sunderland
Sunderland v Arsenal

Tottenham v Bolton
Bolton v Sunderland
Chelsea v Bolton

Wigan v Reading
Reading v Tottenham
Derby v Reading

Wigan v Reading
Aston Villa v Wigan
Wigan v Man Utd

C’Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 21, 2008 12:20 PM

Chris L wrote...

We could easily lose 1-0 or 2-1 to the Mackems - they're rubbish away from home but hard to beat at the SoS.

Follow that with two home performances like Reading or Bolton .....and we're right up to our necks in the brown stuff. No place for pretty football now - drop Arca, get Catts and the Boat into central midfield and battle for everything - Avoiding defeat in the last 3 games would see us safe.

Posted by: Chris L  | April 21, 2008 12:38 PM

jc wrote...

Terry Simpson belongs in a cartoon.

Posted by: jc  | April 21, 2008 12:39 PM

Never Happy wrote...

As GS was happy with Turnbull's contribution will that mean that he keeps his place at the SOS?

GSs comments about learning from the defeat are now as common place as a repeated programme on UK Gold

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 21, 2008 12:51 PM

CAPTAIN PARMO wrote...

The Ayresome Park gates need opening as far as they can, our Club needs an enema the size of my undercrackers, and Vic, you know how big they are !!!

I admire what Southgate is trying to achieve but he, like the rest of us, surely knows we need box to box stamina right across midfield not just the two widemen.

We have surrendered central midfield more times this season than I've had parmo's.

Roll on next season

Posted by: CAPTAIN PARMO  | April 21, 2008 1:01 PM

Graham wrote...

Gareth says we have to keep learning from the defeats, but where is the evidence that we are?

Surely Reading & Cardiff were clarion calls, lighting up our problems at home, in neon!

However, the first test of our learning skills came against Derby & boy, I would say we scraped a pass there.

If it wasn't for the fact that Derby are arguably the worse team to ever appear in the PL, another team would have gobbled up the chances we gave them & Boro would be at least two points worse off.

The next test was vs Bolton !!!

Next down by the Riverside, are Portsmouth & Man City; does Gareth Southgate yet know how to make this squad perform with invention, determination & guts for 95 minutes, against non top four teams, or do we need some more lessons ?

Posted by: Graham  | April 21, 2008 1:17 PM

tim from sa wrote...

Same old same old.

I agree with earlier post Sidwell to come in. I would have suggested Nolan but not sure if Bolton will go down yet he has the bite we lack in midfield.

Can't help but laugh at the amount of time suggested we played well in the first half it was exactly ten minutes then we reverted to the long ball even before Bolton thought they would give us a go.

After West Ham last year we are not safe. Remember the squad changes Fergie, Benetez made last year and they still have Europe.

Posted by: tim from sa  | April 21, 2008 1:18 PM

stockton red wrote...

Just one other point Richard.

Watch the DVD it is good stuff.I notice you mention a video showing our losing finals. It did cross my mind that if you showed such a video to a generation of fans no longer with us they would not believe seeing Boro in domestic cup finals let alone a European one. Perhaps thats how far the bar has been raised

Posted by: stockton red  | April 21, 2008 1:28 PM

PETE wrote...

Boro shot themselves in the foot. Comments such as the squad is good enough for next season and we are the best team outside the top 4 were reckless.

Neither of these comments have any foundation. We need at least three quality players for next season in order to keep out the bottom three, and we might hopefully just be the best team in the bottom six this season. I hope so

Posted by: PETE  | April 21, 2008 1:36 PM

Andy, the Hague wrote...

Ho-hum - just reading about alleged Boro interest in a Nürnburg striker. His name? Misimovic - should fit in well at Boro...

Posted by: Andy, the Hague  | April 21, 2008 2:07 PM

richy wrote...

I just had to get this off my chest..........

1) why do we never leave anyone up field when we are defending corners? If we do win the ball, because there is no-one up field, it just comes straight back in to our box and puts us back under pressure.

2) Why do we insist on pumping long balls from the back and from the keepers hands when we don't have strikers that win the ball in the air? It is no good GS complaining about the players employing these tactics we have been doing it all season - something that should have been ironed out on the training ground by now.

3) Why, from throw ins, do we never have people running in to space and pulling the opposition out of position? We stand motionless, throw the ball to someone who is already marked and posession is lost again.

4) Why does Stewy 'hover' around the half way line, instead of sprinting down the touchline as soon as our left back has the ball? How many times have we seen Stewy and the left back meet on the halfway line, by which time the opposition have got everyone back in position.

I could go on..............

The bottom line is that our midfield is distinctly poor and incapable of 'opening up' any team that comes to the Riverside with the intention of putting 10 men behind the ball.

We do better against the 'top' teams because they are trying to win the game and leave more room for us to play in. In those circumstances we become the team that is difficult to break down and it suits our capabilties.

I am sure that we will survive and I will buy the 3 season ticket - but I bet Steve Gibson is fuming that a good win against Bolton would have seen us safe and a guarantee of season ticket applications coming. As it is I wonder how many people are now going to 'wait and see' for a couple more matches.

C'mon Boro!!

Posted by: richy  | April 21, 2008 2:23 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Graham

What about Blackburn, Villa, West Ham? Lessons aplenty for Gate and co to ignore. In investments 'past performance is not necessarily a guide to the future', well it is in our case.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 21, 2008 2:34 PM

Never Happy wrote...

In my opinion we need the following for next season.

A goalkeeper - Paul Robinson has been mentioned, a change of club might help him, but it would need to.

If Aliadiere can be coverted to a RW then we will need two box to box midfielders.

O'Neill could fill one of the midfield slots, however we still need another two - Sidwell? Péter Halmosi?

One striker if Mido can get fit - we have been promised star names, how bout Luis Fabiano? Daniel Guiza? Sergio Agüero? Mamadou Niang?

I think we are more likely to be linked with Ebanks-Blake? or Beattie?

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 21, 2008 3:08 PM

jiffy wrote...

Looking at those remaining fixtures:

The bottom sides tend to get their best results of the season when they face teams with nothing to play for this time of year.

I would fancy Wigan to go full blast against Reading next weekend and so guarantee their own survival.

Fulham probably gone after next game so Birmingham will be ok there. I fancy Birmingham to take 7 maybe even 9 points from their 3 games.

I wouldnt like to be relying on Arsenal to send the Mackems down on the last day nor Chelsea against Bolton.

Fancy Bolton to draw at Tottenham and then beat the Mackems - they have their tails up a bit now.

I think I would feel more confident of a point away to Man City and to Portsmouth than the shambles we make of home games.

But I think we will survive - I think it will be Reading that goes down even with a trip to Derby last day.

Posted by: jiffy  | April 21, 2008 3:27 PM

David Morrison wrote...

Yes, the football predictor on bbc website is great fun but I've just put in if boro lose all of our remaining games and the teams around us, mainly Bolton and Birmingham, win we will be down.

It just goes to show what that result meant on saturday and those thinking we are safe are living in a dream world. Boro may well go down and in football nothing surprises me.

AV put on here an extraordinary set of results would see Boro going down i think these results are happening and teams are picking up points they shouldnt.

The basis of the results were placed on us beating bolton yet it hasnt happened and other teams have picked up points.

I'm worried very very worried

Posted by: David Morrison  | April 21, 2008 3:35 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Just a couple of points:-

AV - you responded to TB by saying we need a leader.

For me, one of the few positives to come out of the Notlob defeat was Pogatetz. Did anybody else see him going round to several players urging them on, fists clenched?

As captaincy, it looked inspirational. Shame the others couldn't respond in kind, but I will say that every Boro player gave 100%.

This was NOT a case of Boro failing to turn up; we did, absolutely. This was a case of playing poorly after failing to score in the opening burst. Did we lose our confidence? Is that the problem? If we don't score after a brilliant spell like that, do the lads think they never will??

But from then on, we lacked the final killer ball yet again. It's no use having two good strikers (?) or even one, if you don't give them the service.

My other point concerns the season card renewal deadline. Another Boro PR own goal, methinks

We have to cough up by May 11th to qualify for the discount. Why so early? Is this to test fans' loyalty in face of the threat from relegation? May 11th is the date of our last match of the season versus Citeh.

What happens if we are still in danger then? How many fans (like me) will wait till we're safe before renewing?

And how many of us will be absolutely disgruntled if we don't get our usual discounts? I shall be more than bloody gruntled, I can tell you!

If (God forbid) we need to get something out of the Citeh game, I just hope Boro have the sense to keep the ticket offices open afterwards so people like me can renew, all things being resolved and safety guaranteed.

I shall write to Neil Bausor to tell him so, if push comes to shove. Might you be able to raise the issue with your contacts at MFC, AV?

**AV writes: I have raised some of the unanswered questions about renewals with people at the club - what age can kids be unaccompanied from? What if those moved from the South Stand don't like their new seat? Do people who don't renew before the deadline but do later lose their patron number status? Can people get refunds if Boro go down? Will match prices change for non card holders? - and that will be relayed in due course.

As to 'early bird' renewals, it has become increasingly common in recent years for no apparent reason. I would have thought that if there were any uncertainty over exactly what the product was - that is, what division a team will be in - then forcing an early decisions would be a major disincentive to renewal.

There is, of course, the safety net of the second deadline which costs an extra £19 - or a £1 a game surcharge for your lack of faith. That is going to rub some people up the wrong way too.

But not as much as if the nightmare scenario develops and Boro do go down and the season card payment is spun as a positive: now being better value for money than ever because you get an extra three home games!

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | April 21, 2008 3:44 PM

dave wrote...

Time to wake up and smell the smelling salts!

We all (including MFC) need to get of our high perches and realise we are not that good. WE have an inexperienced manager who is not learning from his mistakes, the squad is not responsing to him from the touchline, we need three replacments in midfield.

Don't believe the PR hype coming from the club, we just aren't as good as we all think. Until we realise that we will not move on.

Posted by: dave  | April 21, 2008 4:17 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Boro's performance in Saturday's match settles it & all the talk of enigmas has finally dislodged from the depths of my memory banks a quotation that I feel perfectly sums up Boro in fewer than 20 words.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill slightly, they're a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma!

Doesn't explain the goal drought, of course...

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | April 21, 2008 5:12 PM

Richard wrote...

Stockton Red,

My copy of the DVD arrived today and I watched it immediately (I think because I was in need of cheering up and I knew there'd be nothing negative in it!).

I agree with you entirely - it does contain good stuff and your point about earlier generations is absolutely right. Wouldn’t it be fun to play Dr Who and take Boro’s recent history back to the 1950’s and 60’s or earlier? (Did they still hang witches then?) Despite myself, I enjoyed it!

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

My previous post, alluding to a mythical "alternative" DVD was written when I was still a bit raw. Even as I was posting it I knew that bit was a bit negative, but found the act of banging the "Post" button somehow cathartic.

At the same time I (almost) regretted it, (almost) immediately! Because it doesn’t help the club’s cause one little bit for people like me to possibly undermine well-intentioned and perfectly reasonable attempts to influence my buying opinions, by me reinforcing already negative sentiment.

I’m no foam handed “rara�, but I don’t, and won’t agree with Slavenesque negativity. So to have perhaps slipped a bit by my own standards is, I now feel, regrettable.

That’s a significant difference between the likes of Gareth Southgate and me. Gareth has natural leadership qualities that I don’t. I’m a bit too self-indulgent, openly demonstrative and impulsive.

Despite my long familiarity and appreciation of Rudyard Kipling’s “If�, it’s contents remain aspirational for me. I fall short frequently!

As far as my post-Bolton demeanor is concerned, I’d like to be able to write, “I’m cured! I’m cured!� and mean it. I’m not quite there yet. But I do admit to feeling better today and the Club DVD and your post helped lighten my mood!

Well done and “Thanks!�.

I’m leaning towards renewal again! What a capricious yo-yo I am!

And in acknowledgement of your encouragement, “Ignorant� of Boroland:

Time of the season more like! Although with Boro, mood swings aren’t as regular! They seem to be even more frequent and of course, affect both genders!

Posted by: Richard  | April 21, 2008 6:16 PM

Nigel wrote...

Oh well, at least its Sunderland away next, a tough game where we'll be expected to loose, so every chance of a positive result!

Posted by: Nigel  | April 21, 2008 8:06 PM

Malc wrote...

I'd buy Paul Robinson and Tom Huddlestone in a double deal. Robbo is a Yorkshire lad while Huddlestone can learn from Boat for a year before taking the reigns fulltime. Expect to pay c.£8m total.

I'd then keep the rest of the cash for if an SWP or Robbie Keane came up again. Squad looks good and a new GK and two midfielders is all we need.

I'd release Schwarzer (disloyal and poor), Bates (injury prone & many better CBs, Cattermole (div1 quality and off field distractions) and Gook (enough said on him).

Posted by: Malc  | April 21, 2008 10:41 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Malc

I think Schwarzer is now past his best however it seems harsh to call him disloyal after he has been at the club for so long.

If reports are correct (far fetched to me) others still seem to think he can cut the mustard

Bayern Munich, Juventus and Fiorentina are interested in goalkeeper Mark Schwarzer, who is set to leave Middlesbrough in the summer. (The Sun)

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 22, 2008 9:22 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Yes my friends its deffo 'Squeeky Bum Time'

I am just hoping the Bolton defeat in front of our home fans will be the motivation needed to win the next game.

We are due a bit of luck too infront of goal but Roy Keanes men will be well up for it.

Michael Essien and Claude Makelele for central midfield partnership please Gibbo.

Luis Fabiano up front would be great too.

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 22, 2008 10:05 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Richard, I wasnt really watchin Boros greatest misses I was watchin some of our goals, have a look mate...

youtube.com/watch?v=sywJRTqN4cM&feature=re lated
Tuncay goals.... youtube.com/watch?v=t-i3w2WCKdA

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 22, 2008 10:45 AM

Geordie Lurker wrote...

Hello Smoggies. I see the natural order has been restored and theres not so much gloating on here now. That ludicrus claim to be "the best team outside the top four" made me choke on me stottie.

We have softened the SMBs up for you but you will still lose at the SoS and then you are right in the clarts.

If the Brazilian Maccarone doesn't start scoring soon next year you will be the "best team outside the top four" in the Championship. We'll take Downing off your hands (you can have Smith if you still want him.) LOL.


Posted by: Geordie Lurker  | April 22, 2008 11:01 AM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Bolton was a massive own-goal of a performance, just as the annual season ticket renewals started to drop through letterboxes.

No one can put ability into a player when it isn't there in the first place. You can practice, train, get as fit as you can so as to make the best of the ability already there - and I was rather hoping that is what the coaching staff would be trying to do.

But at Middlesbrough we have some very expensive players on salaries the supporters could only dream about. They have performed well in recent games against Champions League teams, so the players have proved they are CAPABLE of doing it.

What they have also shown is that they cannot perform to the same level against "lesser" teams. To do that sometimes is "just football". To fail to perform on a frequent basis against lesser teams, whose players are generally not as good as ours, is becoming a habit. That MUST be down to preparation and motivation.

A Martian didn't materialise, temporarily to take away the players' skills!

Anyone can have good games and less good games. The better teams are made up of players who have occasional poor rather than occasional good games.

If I were a player capable of the odd 8 out of 10 performance, but consistently at least put in a 7 point performance (therefore getting reasonably near to my potential), I would be a lot more useful to my team than a player capable of an occasional outstanding 10 out 10 who puts in a 5 this week, 6 the next followed by the 10 out of 10 and then a 5 out of 10 the following game.

Put simply, buying a Gerrard or a Drogba would cost more millions than clubs like our possess. But motivating the players we have, to play to their potential and sometimes apparently beyond it, comes relatively cheaply.

Wimbledon, with a tiny crowd and little money achieved it year after year a generation ago, as they climbed from non-league status up to the top echelon and an FA Cup win against Liverpool. That was, of course, before we started to franchise football clubs, but that is a different issue. The Wimbledon players were always highly motivated, saw themselves as outsiders and had a level of success out of kilter with the status of the club.

Why can't we do that? If making the most of the players' potential is down to the man-management and motivational skill of our backroom staff, how many out of 10 would they be awarded this season?

I acknowledge a "professional" player should hardly need motivating to play a game he is good at in the Best League in the World. Can you imagine Billy Bremner telling his Boss he just couldn't quite wind himself up for the forthcoming FA Cup Quarter Final, or the league game against Derby County?

For many performers, the drive, the confidence and the commitment will come from within themselves. We can all list committed sporting heroes over the decades, in different sports. Daley Thompson, Steve Redgrave, JPR Williams, Fred Trueman..... They were all supremely talented in their field, but they were also coached to maximise their talent and to ensure it was backed up with a confidence in their own abililty. They were all determined to succeed.

I don't suppose any of those successful giants of their repective sports will have earned the millions the average Premiership player will have negotiated in their latest contract. They will, however, be remembered longer than the vast majority of the Premiership stars.

So, is the fault in the players themselves, or in the coaching of them?

What I do know is that when I played 25 years before retiring at 40 for my club (not football, but that is another story) I could get myself into a state of mind, of confidence, before the game so I would consciously try harder, run quicker, make that tackle.

I didn't have the ability to put in outstanding 10 out of 10 performances. I won only a handful of Man of the Match awards in all those years. But there were mostly 7 out of 10's, and only rarely were there stinkers (we all get them sometimes!).

If I only had the nutritional advice, the sports science research, the world-class training facilities, the expert backroom staff.....I would never have been a world-beater as I didn't have that extra bit of abililty that only God gives, but I would have been better than I was. Curses, I should have played for the county after all!

Our Boro players, we are led to believe, have these advantages. They don't seem to be making much use of the opportunity.

Right! As one contributer indicated earlier on this thread, putting feelings down on this blog this can be cathartic.

The deep disappointment from the Bolton game has reduced a little but has not yet gone. If you asked all the players how they now felt, and a PR man weren't there to oversee matters, do you think they would all feel the same as me?

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | April 22, 2008 11:28 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Geordie Floater , you went 14 games in the prem without a win and you are on here bragging... what an eediot!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 22, 2008 12:16 PM

Forever Dormo wrote...

Sorry about my previous rant, sent before lunch, but somehow the frustration just takes over.

I don't want to imply that none of the players try or that none of them care about the results. It would be hard to imagine Wheater, or Poggi, or George (now he has returned from a poor spell out of the side) not trying, and I am sure Downing must have been more than a little miffed after the Bolton game.

It is just that we could do with some evidence of a commitment on the part of ALL the players AND the backroom staff to ensuring a level of performance that is maintained at an acceptable level for ALL 90-odd minutes of each game.

After all, it is only 90-odd minutes, they do get a decent break at half time, and they are all supposed to be highly trained and fit young athletes. It isn't as if they were required to work long shifts in a hot and dirty coke oven, or at the sharp end of a coal mine day after day.

**AV writes: I spoke to Pogatetz after the game and he was gutted and still smarting. He had been stomping around on the pitch geeing people up though. He is really fired up for Sunderland. Definitely wear your shinpads, even if you are only watching on the telly.

Posted by: Forever Dormo  | April 22, 2008 1:12 PM

David Morrison wrote...

Tin hats for saturday I think. We are definintly going to be in the trenches. I wouldnt bet against there being the odd sending off. Keane was visibly fuming on sunday and we know they will be fired up.

Hopefully they will play into our hands but who know it is a derby game after all.


COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | April 22, 2008 1:43 PM

John Powls wrote...

AV

I don't favour the comments made by Pogo or by you in reporting them (I don't have your taste for thud and blunder) - though I do understand.

If ever there was an occasion to play the game, not the occasion then this Saturday is it.

The last thing we want is Pogo or any of the local lads he refers to - like Clattermole, for example - sniffing raw meat and careering round the pitch scything everything above grass level. We can do without pens., free kicks round our box and sendings off.

The issue here is way, way more important than any supposed 'local bragging rights' - it's about Prem survival and getting something from this game is key.

That's better done with composed professionalism. If anyone's going to lose their heads (as opposed to have them kicked off), let it be The Mackems.

I can also appreciate that Pogo had the feelings he did last Saturday and stomped around gee-ing people up. I'd like more like him. There's just one flaw in the argument, though. Like whatever Gate said or did on this occasion, sadly, it didn't work.

The Mackems will surely come at us and we can break on them which more often than not suits us better than when we have to take the game to teams.

Man for man our team is better than the Mackems as individuals but we will need to match them as a team and for motivation and attitude to get our skills chance.

Far too often this season our whole has not added up to the sum of its parts - far less added up to more. And also, far too often the parts have not delivered what they should have done. Saturday must be the day it all comes right.

The Mackems look like having the same second string defence as the Skunks tortured last Sunday. They are get-at-able.

What I don't see - beyond Stewie notching again as the likeliest possibility - is where we're going to get goals from.

I say 'goals' because I think we'll concede - particularly if we continue to mark 'zones' at corners. 'Zones' has never scored against us all season but lots of other players seem to from set piece plays.

The other reason for maintaining some semblance of control and reason is so that we don't fall for what befell us against the Mackems at The Riverside in injury time.

We're far from the only team they've done it to. Getting it done to you once is bad enough but knowing it's a risk but doing headless chicken and falling for it again is criminal.

That means not just playing for 10, 20, 30 minutes or one half but doing it for 90+.

A draw might suit both sides but we mustn't settle for it until we have to - they won't.

I know that I'll open myself up for the usual tirade from the usual sources but I don't think there is any leeway for thinking we're safe.

We could well have got all the points we're going to get (home 'advantage' isn't for Boro and I see no sign yet of Citeh or Pompey slacking off because of the Cup Final or the beach) and the predictor is useless at this time of season as the only thing that you can say with certainty about what happens in the last few games is that the results are predictable.

Ian Gill has pointed to some examples that Gate has personal experience of.

So, Saturday is key to our season - and beyond. I am much taken with Ian's description of the Boro paradox of perception v. facts above. But also by what Nigel said - 'Mackems away - expected to lose - let's hope it's typical Boro' - AND that Lawro has a return to form and backs against us!

Posted by: John Powls  | April 22, 2008 3:19 PM

P Igsick wrote...

Tees pride will give Boro the edge says Pogatetz.
Personally I wish that people from Middlesbrough FC would just shut up spouting garbage to the press as it always backfires on them. Just get on with playing football.

I am pig sick of reading boastful comments from people at a club who do nothing but let faithful supporters down.

Posted by: P Igsick  | April 22, 2008 3:56 PM

Benny Brown wrote...

May be I am stating the obvious to the knowledgeable Boro supporters but we fell into the same old trick of trying to play the same game as our less skillful opponents in that we played the long ball down the middle and from the wings to a striker like Alves. It is suicide as he will never ever beat tall defenders to retain the ball.

To get the best out of Alves he must be fed with short passes on the ground to allow him and Aliaderie to use their pace to outstrip slower defenders as Alves did against Manchester United. The Brains trust at the Boro must be blind if they can not see this.

In the first half Boro played exciting attacking football totally outplaying Bolton, then they revert to their opponent bang it up the field tactics and we fail dismally.

The standard of the Boro Football when they are playing the short possession game is equal to any in the league, which has already been pointed out by some in the press last week, So please Boro stick with the quality game and we will be OK.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | April 22, 2008 7:03 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

John is right in saying man for man our players are better as individuals than Sunderland.

Most of us accept that but perception and facts creep in again. They have as many points as us, similar goal difference. Where they have a definite edge is bottle, as John says their whole is greater than the sum of the parts which contrasts sharply with our goal shy 'stars'.

And that leads us to a concern that is growing in my mind. Is the truth basically that we are not that good, we are where we belong, amongst the lodgers who rent some space in the premiership until it is someone elses term - like Coventry, Leicester, Wolves, Derby, Forest, Leeds, Brum, Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Soton etc. Some have longer leases than others but we are all on borrowed time.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 23, 2008 9:23 AM

twocker wrote...

Did anyone notice that the Bolton game was given the Lawrenson Kiss of Death on the Beeb!!!

He had us for a 2-0 win and it is always with a sense dread that I read his predictions that end with "Boro should win this one"!

**AV writes: It is uncannily inaccurate. If only Boro could find that kind of consistency.

Posted by: twocker  | April 23, 2008 10:13 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Does the following mean that Wiley will be banned?

No wonder refs favour the so called 'Big 4' teams

"Controversial referee Rob Styles has been dropped to League Two this weekend after failing to award two penalties in favour of Manchester United against Blackburn.

"Styles will run the derby between Shrewsbury and Chester - the first time this season he has refereed outside the top flight.

"The Hampshire official ignored United's pleas for spot-kicks in their 1-1 draw at Blackburn when Wayne Rooney was brought down by Steven Reid, and when Michael Carrick's shot was handled by Brett Emerton.

"Last month Styles, 44, stunned Man City fans at Birmingham by awarding a penalty against Sun Jihai when TV replays showed Gary McSheffrey had instigated a shoulder to shoulder collision outside the area.

"Styles was also forced into an apology to Liverpool in August after wrongly awarding Chelsea a penalty at Anfield."

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 23, 2008 10:19 AM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

If that was Mendieta's last match in a Boro shirt then I wish him well - and of course the Boro goal last night came from a Mendieta pass.

I wish he was on the bench at least for those poor nine games after the Sunderland match at the Riverside as I think he could have been influential from the bench. A lot of people will look at his record with us and think 'hes not all that' but hardly ever was he played in his ideal position!

I think Alves will score more goals if the midfield can put through balls to his feet or just infront of him. Mendi has the vision to pick a pass and score himself too.

No matter what anyone says and what facts people give me I still remember my joy when we signed him and the elation at games in particular- SaT Oct 29th 2005 [ the Mendi match] United taken appart 4-1 at the Riverside.Brilliant!

ALL THE BEST MENDI

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | April 23, 2008 11:43 AM

John Stone wrote...

Bolton.

Well it was typical Boro.

Good news from the Club about season tickets for kids and those under 21, everybody optmistic to get at least a draw which more or less would make us safe and looking forward to getting three or four top class players particularly in midfield which could establish us in the top ten.

Great first 30 minutes we should have been two up ,Bolton were dreadful.

Then,second half we never turned up,this has happened on a number of occasions this season.

Sorry but Arca has never rediscovered his form since being injured against Sunderland. Alladiere is always great first half but fades badly in the second half particularly against physical teams.

Taylor has a casual style that encourages opponents to exploit this and Rocky gives two many sloppy passes.

So everybody needs to sharpen up for the three remaining games.

But would anybody shed tears if Bolton got relegated? I doubt it, Nolan snarling and moaning all the game, blatantly impeding our goalkeeper on every corner, there specialty the long throw its dreadful to watch.

And Alladyce is still whingeing about Zendens double kicked penalty in the Carling Cup Final !

Lets hope its them going down and not us !

Posted by: John Stone  | April 23, 2008 11:49 AM

John Powls wrote...

Following on from my earlier posting and some others that follow I would go with some changes to the line-up for the weekend.

We have to go 4-4-2 because, though I think that 4-3-3 is where we should end up to make the best of what we've got we never look comfortable experimenting and this isn't the game not to be comfortable.

If Schwarz is fit he should return but Turnbull is OK if not.

If Huth is back I would pair him with Wheats and move Pogo to left back with Tayls on the bench. We've looked most solid at the back with this formation. If Huth isn't fit then Pogo to the centre and Tayls at left back.

The centre of the midfield has to be solid and controlled. The Shawkster has become the forgotten man again recently. If fit I'd let him do the holding and continuity passing role and partner him with The Boat to do the foraging, breaking up and pass it simple to the nearest red shirt role.

Stewie picks himself and I'd have Tuncay rather than Aliadiere wide right. Slightly less pace but he crosses and passes better.

Alves and Aliadiere up front in the hope that they can partner up as they did against ManUre.

I'd have Rocky and Johnno as the midfield subs. With Tayls, Grounds or McMahon as defensive subs that means you could probably put Arca or Catts on the bench too - but there's no way I'd start with either of them.

Gate always avoids saying any game is must win one on the basis that you have nowhere to go if you don't win. But he has come as close as he ever has to saying it about this game.

So, it needs to be 3 points if at all possible and it is certainly 'must not lose'.

Posted by: John Powls  | April 23, 2008 12:14 PM

Never Happy wrote...

For those who still think Boro will be relegated why not have £10 on at the 66/1 that is available.

Your winnings could pay for next season's ST with some beer money to spare.

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | April 23, 2008 12:50 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

John Stone

I too share your love for Bolton but I must admit I cant see them going down. I think we will stay up (some hope is mixed in there as well) and the other may come out of Reading and Brum.

Fulham are away with Fairies, a worry I have is Brum playing a weakened Liverpool followed by Fulham.

A positive result on Saturday wouldnt go amiss.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 23, 2008 1:02 PM

mark j wrote...

Mendietta man of the match by a mile in the reserves with lots of running and clever play. I cant understand why he never got a prem game, or even part of one, this season yet Dong Goog got plenty of chances.

What a waste!

Posted by: mark j  | April 23, 2008 3:33 PM

Malc wrote...

Schwarzer has often come out in the papers saying "show me the money." I know lots of players do that but we've been more loyal to him than he to us.

Plenty of good cats about. Robinson for a few mil and Sorensen for free. Both like it up north.

I agree we must keep the ball low against the mockems (typo originally but seemed appropriate to leave untouched). We played them off the park at the Riverside but didn't kill them off. finish our chances this time boys...

Posted by: Malc  | April 23, 2008 7:14 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

I predict that we finish 14th on 38 points along with Sunderland and Reading, Wigan above us on 40, and Bolton surviving on 36 with Birmingham on 35 points joining Derby and Fulham next season.

This means 2 points needed as a minimum out of a possible 9. Just hope my optimism is well placed!


Posted by: Redcar Red  | April 23, 2008 8:15 PM

mohd alan wrote...

A.V.

Could not agree more with the post by Mr. Igsick. Time for talking is after a game when the result has been achieved.

On that basis we would have been spared the pre-match pronouncements from Mido/Arca et al. That would of course have meant an after match silence this season, apart from that nice Mr. Southgate telling us all how we will learn from defeat.

It must be one of the longest learning curves in history. What did we learn from Reading and did we apply it to Bolton?

Ian Gill is also correct in his realisation that we are not as good as we think we are. On paper we are better than the Mackems, yes, but football is not played on paper.

I am like every one on this board hoping against hope that Bolton or Brum slip up as I have no belief that we will save ourselves. Having said that it would be "typical" for us to get an away win on Saturday.

However if we do survive, what will that lead to? John Stones feels we will sign three or four top class players and we will be established in the top ten. Under this manager - no way. Would that be the same type of top class players we have signed recently, who between them can barely manage an average of one goal a season.

Let's get these three games out of the way and hope against hope.

Then the real debate must start and Mr. Gibson will have to be engaged in it and listen to what is said, before inevitably we are mid table in the Championship playing in front of miniscule crowds.

I am an optimist, if I lived in the Boro I would have season ticket, I don't, I get up in the early hours of the morning to watch the Boro on the TV looking forward to a great game will three points in the bag. After fifteen minutes of the Notlob game, realism kicks in and I have to sit and watch the inevitable.

Good luck to Gaizka Mendieta, who did not have the best of times here. Bad injury and bad managers, who either played him in the wrong position or simply ignored him.

Ah well come on Boro


Posted by: mohd alan  | April 24, 2008 1:31 AM

Richard wrote...

AV: I’d like to post on a hobby-horse topic, awareness of which has been heightened by the Alexander Hleb ban. It connects with your Groundhog Day blog, but not necessarily obviously until the end!

The three match ban of Alexander Hleb for his forearm smash of Reading’s Graham Murty highlights once again the weakness in the refereeing arrangements in modern professional football.

The standards of refereeing have not kept pace with the game - in neither accuracy nor consistency.

This is no fault of particular referees necessarily, although we can all point to our favourite hate targets for witnessed injustices.

The consequences of incorrect decisions are such that the levels of error that are now being aired weekly, must surely be giving cause for grave concern within the game?

Hleb was clearly guilty of a serious breach of rules, for which others have been dismissed from the field of play in other matches during the season. Our own Jeremie Alliadiere being an obvious case in point, while the instigator of that exchange, Liverpool’s Mascherano, remained on the field of play without so much as a yellow card.

I’m not here to argue the “big-four vs the rest� bias claim. What I wish to point out and raise concerns about, is the continuing scope for (let’s be generous) random refereeing errors or failures that don’t “even up over a season�.

The FA, on reviewing video evidence of the Arsenal-Reading match – which, by the way, those who watched the match on TV also did, within moments of the event taking place – have decided to impose a 3-match ban on Hleb. In my opinion, this is a correct decision, as being the penalty for violent behaviour.

It is however, only partial justice and certainly, of no benefit to Arsenal’s opponents on the day, Reading. Alexander Hleb remained on the field of play, Arsenal kept a full team of 11 players on the pitch and went on to beat Reading 2-0. It’s not difficult to imagine that things could possibly have been different had Hleb been ordered off.

And why wasn’t he ordered off? Because the referee, by his own admission didn’t see the incident. But the TV-viewing world saw this significant and potentially, match-result-impacting incident.

So the refereeing standards and frailties are once again shown in a poor light, and anything but in keeping with standards of behaviour and professionalism which we expect from everyone concerned with the game.

In fact, the game’s authorities and officialdom set the standards for the whole business of football. And they should be setting and enforcing them higher than they are currently.

The standards of refereeing by a method which goes back decades and has never been updated, save for the introduction of a fourth, neutered official, is out of keeping with the new order of the game.

It’s a bit like trying to keep an Aston Martin Vanquish on the road using a model-T Ford suspension & steering system, or like flying a Stealth Bomber manually.

Mistakes of judgement may or may not be the referee’s or linesman’s fault. With the speed of the game and the margins for error being so small, their job is actually very difficult. I can accept that.

But that’s still no reason to accept the current standards which are letting many people down week after week. And demonstrably so via the very medium that could assist them to get it right where it truly matters and when the correct decision actually counts for something positive, instead of allowing the incorrect consequences of possibly judgement error to persist.

It’s just seems so ridiculous to have such wrongly-called incidents shown to the TV- watching public via replay from different angles but having that information denied to the one person who actually matters, and who is supposedly there to ensure fair play - the match official!!

Referees can’t see everything and neither can linesmen. But with the degree of TV coverage we employ these days, events such as the Hleb incident and any other potential result-impacting event which occurs during play can be picked up during play and an enhanced level of judgement applied at the point of incident.

Not several days after the event, when the result of the match has been decided, possibly on the basis of a dubious penalty decision or an offside goal or a goal that wasn’t because the ball hadn’t crossed the line, or, or, or…………make up your own scenarios.

Hleb’s ban is right. But his ongoing contribution to the match, subsequent to the incident, was not denied to Arsenal. And it should have been. Surely, nobody can argue against that morally?

So, doesn’t it follow that it is correct to eliminate, as far as possible, the inaccuracies and the inconsistencies that are shown time and time again and which are actually demeaning the skills and organisation of our football teams and individual players, by adhering to an outmoded and now inappropriate form of game control?

Unless we get a better grip of refereeing standards in the game, we have a credibility gap between those who make and enforce the rules of the game and the public who support it.

Football is a game of skill, speed, strength and endurance. Yet the outcomes of matches are, too often, demonstrably reduced to a lottery.

I’ve said this before and I’m saying it again. If I wanted to gamble on the outcome of Boro matches, I’d give my money to Ladbrokes instead of buying a season ticket! I feel that I put too much of my limited income towards watching football to have the outcomes decided by “Hackett Bingo�.

In my opinion, it’s time for a major change. In fact, it’s overdue. Because I believe it’s also a contributor to some people’s disenfranchisement with the game. It’s my belief that, generally, people want to see fair play and that they’d far rather that any success won by their club team was gained fairly and in accordance with the rules. (Otherwise any victory is hollow and without moral substance.)

This concept of “things evening themselves out over a season�, doesn’t wash with me in either a theoretical sense nor in a practical way, relatively or absolutely.

Reading can’t get a review of their points result against Arsenal. And Boro can’t get a review of their points result against Bolton on the basis of a retrospective viewing of the Gavin McCann handball.

Those horses bolted after 90 minutes were up (plus the arbitrary (?) added time – the allocation system for which also requires bringing into the 21st century!).

Posted by: Richard  | April 24, 2008 2:01 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Redcar Red

As I posted earlier I do have a concern about Brum playing a Liverpool side which is distinctly second string, although they did beat Fulham but they are poor. And Brum play Fulham after that.

I think Reading could go but as for us I cant even guess at which Boro is going to turn up for the last three matches.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | April 24, 2008 8:55 AM

Nigel wrote...

I agree with John Powls team selection, Tuncay on the right seems a good bet to me. We need someone there who Sunderland will be frightened of but who works hard and tracks back.

Solid midfield is vital, The Boat is playing well again and deserves his place on merit.

The Sunderland game will be a pressure match all round and the result impossible to call, I'd grab a draw if it were offered but we're capable of winning it.

I suspect the game and perhaps the season will turn on a bit of luck or a mistake.

I just prey Lawrenson has us down to lose!!

Posted by: Nigel  | April 24, 2008 10:29 AM

Kenny Holgate wrote...

The Boro are doing crap again!

I feel a "please support the club because we won the Carling Cup once and we are the most successful team outside the top 4" phone in appearance on the 3 Legends by that nice Mr Lamb coming on.

Posted by: Kenny Holgate  | April 24, 2008 10:44 AM

John Powls wrote...

Another facet of Groundhog Day.

Now Colin Cooper is on the MFC website saying that 'if we do well we can win the last three'.

Can't they all, for once, just shut up and do it on the field. Or in Soopa-Coopa's case find a way to coach that'll get it done on the field.

Posted by: John Powls  | April 24, 2008 11:12 AM

Haverton Hilary wrote...

We Boro fans are worried Birmingham will probably beat Liverpool, therefore defeat at Sunderland is unthinkable.

Southgate and Cooper have taken the Club backwards, no wonder we Season Ticket Holders are diminishing. We need strong leadership on and off the pitch. The entire Management Team is simply not good enough, time for change everywhere I think

Posted by: Haverton Hilary  | April 24, 2008 11:54 AM

boromonty wrote...

Hahahaha, I see that some papers are saying that Lucas Mordic is signing for Newcastle. How ridiculous, why would anyone want to go there, anyway what if they get relegated?

Posted by: boromonty  | April 24, 2008 12:39 PM

jc wrote...

JP's team makes sense to me too. And what has happened to Shawky?

Richard - although I broadly agree with your position on refereeing, I have to disagree with your characterisation of Hleb's misdemeanor as a 'forearm smash'! It was little more than a slap on the side of the face, despite Murty's four letter complaints to the ref that he was punched!.

Truth is, I don't like the arbitrariness of the rule that hands raised is an automatic red card. It shouldn't be difficult for a ref to decide how much harm was intended in a given incident and punish on that basis, rather than having to accept that the merest brush of fingertip on nose should be treated the same as a haymaker punch in the eye.

Posted by: jc  | April 24, 2008 1:11 PM

David Morrison wrote...

I'd go for it on saturday, a win puts us safe so why not go all out? We have performed well away since the turn of the year so lets give the Mackems a pasting on their own patch.

Turnbull

Taylor
Wheater
Pogatetz
Young

Downing
Rochemback
Baoteng/Shawky

Tuncay

Alliadiere
Alves

Let's hit them with pace and flowing football, no long balls get it down and play the ball around them, let them do all the work

3 - 1 boro

COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | April 24, 2008 2:32 PM

Richard wrote...

JC:

Glad you agree on the refereeing issue and thanks for the comments.

I agree that I took a bit of "author's license" with the "forearm smash" description.

However, the rule on raising hands is anything but arbitrary. That's the whole point of having the rule. The rule removes ambiguity and arbitrariness.

It's far more arbitrary for a referee to have to make a judgment call on "degree of harm intended" than to simply follow a simple rule that says if you deliberately strike a guy on the face with your hand then you're off.

It's the same as jumping with elbows raised. It's likely to cause injury and when it does, it's difficult, if not impossible to prove actual injurious intent or recklessness as opposed to retention of balance and fair leverage. So make it illegal and dispense with the dilemma.

I've got no problem with the rules, except the ambiguous off-side rule which is a perennial pain in the bum – precisely because there seem to be elements of arbitrariness within the rule and because it’s difficult to police with the refereeing system we have in place.

I just want to see the rules, whatever they are, enforced consistently, fair judgment made, level playing fields for all teams and justice seen to be done. And I don’t believe we have the best system in place to enable that.

It mattered less when football was a genuine sport. But there’s too much at stake these days to leave it to chance and the inability of an outdated control system to cope with present day demands.

Posted by: Richard  | April 24, 2008 5:11 PM

Malc wrote...

David Morrison...Rochemback is useless mate!

Posted by: Malc  | April 24, 2008 5:17 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Nigel: re Lawro's prediction for Saturday, your prayers have been answered - 2-0 to the Mackems! ;)

**AV writes: Spooky. I have just written something about that!

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | April 25, 2008 12:00 AM

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