Tell Yer Mam, Yer Mam....
EXCITED. NERVOUS. "Tell Yer Mam, Yer Mam, Put The Champagne On Ice, We're Going To Wembley Twice, Tell Yer Mam". I'm so excited I feel a little bit queasy. Sick with anticipation and FEAR. We can't mess this up now. We will NEVER have a better chance`than this to win the FA Cup. NEVER. The big boys have all been culled. We're at home to a lower league club with a trip to Wembley at stake. No-one to be scared of..... right now I would strike a Faustian pact with the devils and gods of football and trade Premiership status for a guaranteed FA Cup final win. That's the one we all dreamed of as kids. That is Sporting Glory.
All the pre-match logic is in our favour: Boro are an established Premiership team; we have lost just two in 12; we know exactly what it takes to get past a lower league side who come here to battle and spoil because we have made a habit of it over recent seasons; we haven't lost an FA Cup tie under Gareth Southgate at the Riverside - in fact we haven't lost and FA Cup clash at the Riverside since God knows when... January 1998 2-1 to Arsenal... I had to Google it. On their side they have underdogs status, the fairytale inspiration of Barnsley yesterday and the scientifically proven powers of Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink's low centre of gravity.
Pre-match there is a crackling atmosphere as both sets of fans clear their throats but despite the intoxicating power of the primal call and response taunting, Me Mark Page feels the need to intervene to choreograph an unneccessary and embarrassing Mexican Wave that breaks down as it reaches the Cardiff fans. The big cards are unveiled to spell out SPORTING GLORY across the North Stand and it looks pretty impressive. Then we are off and the Boro start brightly roared on by a full house high on possibility and powered by dreams.
As Boro set the early pace the visiting fans opt to taunt Boro fans with a chant of 'One Steve McClaren' that is intended to wound but as he led the team to Carling Cup glory - ironically, deliciously in Cardiff - and also to the UEFA Cup final it doesn't really sting much.
Then out of the blue, Cardiff score after nine minutes and I feel sick and in a breach of press box protocol there is some frustrated swearing. Peter Whittingham gets onto a loose ball on the edge of the box as a long throw is only half cleared and is allowed to do a fancy drag-back and then trick his way in torturous, teasing slow motion through a static terracota army of five Boro defenders to create space then curl a neat shot into the far top corner. The away end explodes with far fetched noisy celebrations that are almost drowned out by the sounds of bubbles bursting in the rest of the ground. That wasn't in the script.
That sparked a spell in which Cardiff streamed forward and the Boro threatened to implode. It was chaos at the back: Boro were failing in basic things - the midfield weren't tracking runners from the middle, the defence weren't closing down, or getting goal-side or marking properly or blocking crosses. Tackles were missed completely, needless fouls were being conceded in dangerous places, attempted clearances didn't have any height or distance.
So it was no surprise when Cardiff got a deserved second goal on 22 minutes, Roger Johnson nipping around behind Pogatetz at the far post to connect with a diving header that flew under Schwarzer's ungainly leap leaving Boro in disarray and the dream fading fast.
And as Boro wobbled in a ten minute disintegration, Cardiff could have scored another two as Johnson again lost his man to put a header wide and then Jimmy failed to make a good chance count. Boro had a brief flurry as Alves turned onto a ball in the box but was hauled down, then Stewy Downing ran at the defence and turned them inside out but then failed to deliver the cross and then Pogatetz had a powerful low shot in the box blocked but the Premiership side looked toothless and they were rightly booed off by a betrayed crowd - at least by those who were not stood open-mouthed in shell-shocked silence.
Mark Page urged the fans to remember the Spirit of Steaua before the teams returned but there was none of the tingle of that night in the ground. Gareth Southgate made a change at the break bringing on Mido for Alves so it signalled an intention to get the ball into the box high and early and to put Cardiff's defence under the kind of test to destruction pressure that Boro's had suffered in the first half. And let's hope the boss gave them the rollicking of their life in the interval too and impressed upon them the importance and urgency of the situation : lose today and the season is over bar a frantic grind at the bottom in front of a dwindling number of unforgiving, sullen supporters. It is now or never. Let's get an early goal and turn it around. Let's see you earn your money, justify the hype and show that Sporting Glory means something.
There is some hope. The opening stages of the second half see Boro step up the tempo, get bodies forward and hit the box, but it is scrappy, desperate stuff that, alarmingly, seems to lack a single shred of self belief. Cardiff in contrast have a conviction and far from sitting back along their own 18 yard line to hold on or be picked off depending on fate they are keen to shape their own destiny. When they steam forward they look sharp: they are dribbling through Boro almost at will, out-pacing them, out-passing them, out-muscling them... frankly it is frightening. One more goal and the match is dead and buried.
With an hour gone and frustrations rising - and time running out - Southgate puts on Adam Johnson for Gary O'Neil, presumably to give width and supply Mido with ablls to attack but it just doesn't happen. Boro are knocking it long through the middle towards a defence who are just gobbling the routine aerial balls up. When Mido does win them there is no-one near enough to win the knockdowns. Boro's ragged play is prompting loud groans and sporadic boos and shrieks of tortured indignation from the increasingly despondent crowd. I have no nails left. Southgate claps powerlessly in the technical area. Cardiff just sing. Que Sera Sera.
The visitors are sitting back a bit more now, so much that Jimmy handles just outside his own box giving Boro a free-kick in a dangerous area but Stewy dips it just over the bar. A few balls are drilled in from wide on the left by Pogatetz, and Downing - now operating wide on the right - but they are scrambled away comfortably. There is no sign of panic in the Cardiff defence. I bet the MotD pundits are loving this but no matter how much they twist the knife it will be nothing to the kind of recrminations being lined up by Teessiders after being let down so painfully again.
There's 15 minutes left and people are already streaming out, making tangible the reality of Boro's season draining away. There is plenty of frantic effort on the pitch now but no incisive quality, no guile and not much hope that the game or even some pride can be salvaged. And all you can hear is Cardiff singing, hammering home the scale of the public humiliation. Que Sera Sera. "Premiership? You're Having A Laugh." It is hard to disagree.
"A minimum of three minutes additional time will be added on". Ha! You could add three hours and we still wouldn't score. Best blow the bloody whistle now and put us out of our misery. There it is, but you can barely hear it for the booing at one end and the glee up to eleven at the other. That was as a big a teeth shattering blow as losing to West Ham two years ago was. Worst even. The opposition was weaker and the potential to actually win the bloody thing far greater. And there is no consolation of a UEFA Cup semi-final a few days later. Watch them get Barnsley in the semis now. Gutted. Absolutely gutted.
Five minutes after the whistle and the ground is almost empty bar the orange badged school kids in the South East corner - my boy among them - and the entire beaming away end, singing in praise of the David Jones they were booing roundly a month ago and Peter Ridsdale, the football finance genius who has taken them to the verge of liquidation. I'd say it is a funny old game but it isn't . It isn't bloody funny at all.
*****
And here's what I wrote about missed opportunity and recriminations in the Gazette after picking over the debris of shattered dreams and broken hearts in the aftermath.
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Anthony Vickers
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I posted earlier that I wasn't confident.
Thanks (for nout) for justifying every reason why I wasn't confident, you shower. You should be as ashamed of yourselves as I am of the lot of you. 'You're not fit to wear the shirt' should have rung round the ground.
If Gate and his coaching team had any honour between them they'd be in with Gibbo now tendering their resignations. If he had any sense he'd be accepting.
I wasn't confident about the rest of our Prem season either, now I'm totally confident - that we're going down with the same whimper, but longer, that we went down with today and against Reading last week.
There are rumours of a £20m war-chest to spend in the Summer. Well, get a new management team to spend it and just as well we'll only be buying Championship players because we need to replace the whole of our central midfield and attack with that £20m.
Then you can add what it will cost to replace all the rest that a Prem side will take pity on.
Are you aware that since Ali was sent off that no Boro player has scored a goal?!?
All seemed well until Lee Mason and James Harper made their respective interventions and turned our season on its head.
But the problems run deeper than that. Where's the belief? Where's the brilliant final ball?
Most importantly - where are the GOALS?
This has been the worst performance I've seen all season. None of the players deserve to wear the shirt and on this performance Southgate doesn't deserve to be manager.
As well as no performance, there were no ideas and no effort. We passed the ball abysmally and played with no urgency at all.
Play like this in our league games and we're down.
Missing
One team bus complete with players
For Sale
Two tickets for Villa away.
AN UTTER DISGRACE
AN INSULT TO THE FANS
GET A GOALKEEPER
WE WILL NEVER SEE A FULL HOUSE AGAIN
YES I'M SHOUTING AND PIG SICK OF BEING LET DOWN
WE WILL NEVER GET AN EASIER CHANCE TO WIN THE CUP...GOOD NIGHT
Just finished watching the game - what a load of crap!
Biggest game of the season, great chance to win the cup and it turns out to be a load of rubbish. Wonder what the excuses will be. So now we have a tough run of fixtures coming up to make sure our confidence is shattered.
The Derby game is going to be a big test now, when it should have been easy. I can`t pick the worst player, they were all equally as bad. I fully agree with all the fans walking out before the end. I would have walked out of my house if the missus had let me!
Where do we go from here AV?
Trouble with claiming "Sporting Glory" is that when you lay on a bravura display of "Sporting Shame" you lay yourself open to liability under the 'Trades Description Act'
I feel so sorry for the 34,000 Boro fans who were subjected to that shatteringly inept performance. Hansen said it was the worse PL team performance he had witnessed in 18 years.
It feels like we have now reached a watershed in the Boro's future, for good or ill
Graham
The Boro in the Cup have managed to make me deeply frustrated and even almost suicidal over my 41 years of supporting them (Birmingham, Orient, Wolves and Tranmere etc etc) - but today was the absolute rock bottom.
We had the best chance we'll EVER have of winning the FA Cup but the players looked half-interested. I can just about stomach it if we go down fighting/due to bad luck/to a classier team but that display against a poor championship side (look at the table)was utter rubbish.
Rochembach tried but was garbage, Tuncay, Arca, Pogatetz and O'Neil were just plain garbage - no-one played well or seemed to know how to pass the ball on the floor. At least Stewie showed the pain in his face at the end that the rest of us felt.
It'll take many months for the club and supporters to recover from this. God help us at Villa....
I wonder if Chelsea and Man United fans reacted like this yesterday? I doubt it.
Thats what the cup is all about. Two teams: one complacently expecting to get to Wembley, the other with nothing to lose and no expectation chomping at the bit.
Sounds like the fans had the same presumptuous attitude.
We've got a relegation battle to fight. Get your act together and get behind the team.
And lets hope Mr Southgate doesn't blunder quite so badly in his preparation for Villa.
What made it worse was Chelsea and Manu going out yesterday. We could have won that cup.
We lacked everything today.... belief, commitment, desire, determination, energy, urgency, conviction, PASSION!!!!!!
What an absolutely pathetic display.
Never has the gulf between fans' passion and players' attitude been so painfully apparent. They are just too detached. They just don't care enough.
They might be slightly miffed about it, but they will drive back to their mansions tonight in their Jags and Aston Martins and will get over it all very quickly.
Us fans, on the other hand, have to live with the hurt and the humiliation of that performance and the knowledge that our dreams have been unceremoniously and callously ripped from our hearts - yet again.
I was so upset after today's game and the result that I posted my e-mail to your previous Blog. As I said, we can all make mistakes, get it wrong, but if there were 11 of me I doubt we'd ALL get it wrong at the same time.
**AV writes: It's alright, I've tidied up in midfield and moved it.
I will give a more reasoned posting in the next day or two but here are some thoughts.
When someone started talking about 44 points this season I pointed out that when we looked at other teams and came up with game plans they would be doing the same.
John's favourite players - Tippy and Tappy - could also be termed the Chuckle Brothers - to you to me to you to me. They are dangerous together and their lacked of pace is a liability. But to blame them for everything would be unfair, the team were woeful.
Gate talked about letting the fans down and the team having to heal the hurt. I fear the scars will take years to clear up, Ziege has more chance of being in a clearasil advert.
I can think of only one plus point - we have stopped missing chances.
My wife is not speaking as we are off to Villa on Wednesday, if the first half is anything like today we will be home for the ten o'clock news. I was coming up for the Derby match but that can be kicked into the long grass.
I've seen a lot of disappointing cup exits down the years and I was nervous beforehand. After all I had seen us many times as a Division 2 side put out teams from the top league.
What really hurts is the spineless way we just rolled over in the second half and did not give it a go. Since Ali's suspension we just seem to welly the ball up the pitch to no effect. What has happened to our passing?
This will take some getting over. Southgate must select 11 players on Wednesday who will at least fight for the shirt
Today is certainly the day I have been the most shamed by my lifelong support for the Boro.
Watching as a boro exile in the pub with mates, sceptical as always but hoping they would finally deliver when it mattered.... I asked the landlord to turn it off with 15 minutes to go.
Apparently the ground started to empty at about the same time. And rightly so. In any other commercial transaction Im sure the customer has a right to a refund when the work is not even attempted. Give em their money back Southgate!
Theres been a few other occasions where we've been a national laughing stock, but the manner of THIS defeat due to the most INSIPID and TACTICALLY NAIVE performance Ive seen for years - and given the prize at stake???! - this one JUST TOPS THE LOT.
Where can the club go from here to redeam itself? Its beyond me. No faith left. Going down and we deserve it.
Two words - weak and pathetic.
We've dished up some dross over the years but the 90 minutes I have just witnessed are quite possibly the worse yet.
Premiership players should have the professionalism and ability about them to play at 70 per cent of their ability and still get something out of a game against lower league opposition.
Let's be honest here;
Rochembach - not good enough.
Arca - not a Premiership midfielder.
These are two positions in which you can't afford to carry passengers. We looked pathetic appealing for handball after that first goal. We must have had four players around Whittingham and not one of them approached him with any real conviction to put in a tackle.
We didn't attack as a team and more importantly perhaps, we didn't defend as a team. If players are not capable of tracking a man from a set piece, particularly in a game of this magnitude, then they shouldn't be wearing the shirt.
What a big two games at Villa and Arsenal we face now...
Gareth will obviously have to put a tin hat on after THAT performance against Cardiff because an avalanche of criticism will already be on its way.
However it is the players who are really responsible. If you were, say, a lorry driver with Julio Transport and had failed to deliver your load to the correct address for maybe 6 or 7 weeks in a row, would you expect to stay in a job. What if you had been given the Transport Manager's armband - would you keep it?
Or if you were a surgeon, say in Rocky General Hospital, and had messed up all your operations for the last month, so that even patients in for a routine "10 yard pass" ingrowing toenail operation all died.....would you expect to stay in a job?
Of course not. Even the highest paid drivers for specialist-load haulage companies, nor the highest paid surgeon operating on the most difficult orthopaedic operations, would be paid tens of thousands of pounds each week, yet they are expected to perform consistently and professionally.
Anyone can make mistakes, but to make so many, minute after minute, for an entire game and with everyone in the team joining in (as if it were a competition to see who cared least)is really exceptional.
It really is a good job the Cardiff players were tired after their midweek game because I doubt we could have competed with them if they had really been on their mettle.
Sorry about the rant but I, and some of the people around me in the stadium, really did care.
Mr Vickers please go on the fmttm message board and print off some of the messages on there tonight, then please display them on the walls at Hurworth.
The players should be made aware just how angry the fans are because that performance was an absolute disgrace today.
The debacle against Cardiff was an insult to the history and tradition of the FA Cup as well as the Boro fans who have been let done yet again by the team.
After the poor result against Reading Gareth blamed the defeat on the crowd for being subdued.
After yesterdays embarrassment he blamed himself for not setting the mood and tone right before the game.
When will someone stand up and say that it was not the fans or manager but the ineptness of the team which is the problem?
Arca is possibly the worst player to Captain the Boro in its history and does nothing to lead or encourage the rest of the team whcih a captain should.
Tuncay is simply not cut out for the Premiership, Mido showed why he has had eight clubs and is only 25 years old, Rochemback is out of his depth, Downing is playing nowhere near his best, O'Neil has lost his early season sparkle and Pogatetz doesn't know if he is at left back or centreback.
One goal in five hours of home football is unacceptable. No goals against Reading, one own goal in two hours against Sheffield and then no goals yesterday.
Gareth brought in Mido, Tuncay and Alves. He has no excuse for lack of goals. Something has to change - and quickly.
Now then Anthony. You had a good crack against the cyber cynics in your last blog. How those who fail to follow the Boro party line are not worthy.
Well today we had the full house, the card display and an enthusiastic crowd.
What we got in return was a dismal display from uninterested players. So, was it the fault of the cynical Boro fan, or was it a shocking display from those who are paid to play?
You have bitten the hand that feeds you. This week has been your very own Gerald Ratner moment.
**AV writes: What, it was my fault the team put in a spineless performance? Or it was the message on the card to blame for the ineptitude?
I can understand angry and frustrated people are now looking for scapegoats after that kick in the teeth but no one can seriously blame the fans - cyber cynics or self appointed ra-ra cheerleaders - for that act of surrender. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the team and of the management who prepared them.
I'm only going to add to what just about every other football fan on Teesside will be saying but there's no hiding from it.......
That performance by Boro was disgraceful and utterly, utterly shameful!
It was the worst, most gutless, clueless performance I have ever witnessed at the Riverside.
It wasn't because Cardiff were great!
Boro were really, really, really inept. There were no basic footballing skills on display from Boro at all - at any stage in the match!
Not even when they ought to have got angry - after the hand-ball wasn't given and Cardiff's first goal was allowed to stand! Reaction?........NONE!
Every decision was wrong.
Distribution was the worst I've ever seen from a Premier League team.
First touches were dreadful and individual ball control was non-existent. Teamwork was non-existent. Arguments all over the field - blaming each other!
I am disgusted with the Boro players.
Where's a season ticket hurler when you need one??
Gutless, shameful, embarassing, spineless. No invention, no passion, tactically inept in every department.
Well done to Cardiff, they got everything right on the day, so good luck to them.
Southgate should walk after this debacle, but he won't, Gibbo will stick with him. But how much more of this are we and Gibbo going to have to endure??
The potential long- term damage of yesterdays result cannot be over estimated.
I cant remember the last time it hurt so much to be a Boro fan. I'm used to us being crap; apart from the past 12 years, we almost always have been so my expectations are tempered by this.
Yesterday was the most embarrassing performance I have ever witnessed by the Boro. No movement, no heart, no fight, no skill, no nous.
I am embarrassed to say this but as big as I am I was nearly in tears with frustration and anger.
Of course it was made worse because of the teams that were left in, but we had a real chance didn't we? The team of 2 weeks ago had a real chance.
It hurts so much because we care; probably too bloody much. I am proud of my town and will always be behind my team, but at this moment in time I really wish my dad hadn't taken me to the Swindon game in 1970 and got me hooked. I want to swear, shout and be angry but like the Boro I just haven't got the fight today.
Most of the team seem leaden footed and had an off day. I thought Huth had an ok game and Rockenback was the best of an awful midfield. Ali's pace was definitely missed.
It reminded me of an FA Cup Quarter Final match, Boro v Orient in Jack Charlton's days in which we only drew and also played crap.
I have slept on it overnight and it doesnt get any better.
Every improvement over the last two and a half months- some excellent away performances, the signing of Downing and Wheater and a supposedly proven scorer - have all gone out of the window in two totally abysmal displays and we are back to square one with 10 games to save our necks.
We have a goalkeeper who takes no responsibility for what is going on in his six yard box. Arca and O'neill seem to have totally lost the plot. I do have a little sympathy for Rochemback who was pretty poor yesterday because at least right to the end he was showing for and wanting the ball unlike most of the others.
Mido talks a good game but is not fit enough to do himself justice and Alves is a worry. Anybody who watches football can see immediately that he cannot play with his back to goal and bring other players into the game.
He is an out and out scorer who needs the whole team set up to make him a yard of space in the penalty area.
Hurry back Jeremie- we need you badly!!!
Let us now move on from the Cup, it is done, dusted and in my paper it says we are out. That is history.
I was hoping that a good result in the cup would give us some confidence to kick on in the league and secure the points we need to be safe. I think I can safely say we havent achieved the first part.
When we debated about safety in an earlier thread I posted that a lot depends on who has a bad run at the wrong time.
To quote the well known saying of the investment industry warning 'past performance is not necessarily a guide to the future' or as we used to term it 'the value of shares can fall as well as plummet'.
We have a seriously tricky run coming up broken by the game with Derby - a team as bad as Sunderland were during their last brief stay in the top flight, we all recall they only won one away match that season.
Reading had a run of eight succesive defeats. add another six to our run and that gives us 29 points with four games to play, the first two of those home to Bolton and away to Sunderland.
Toon have got three points out of 12 matches, that doesnt look good bolted on to us.
Reading and Toon havent got dreadful players, just suffered a severe loss of confidence and form. They both have problems in certain areas of the pitch like most of the sides outside the top teams.
The performance yesterday shocked me by its sheer incompetence, the other premiership managers will have watched us against SheffU and Cardiff plus will have analysed us against Reading. They are not dim, they all have analysts who will have studied how to play us.
I am not going into great depths into the weaknesses I can see without all the back up facilities they have. Suffice it to say we are slow in centre midfield and tend to over elaborate, are poor at marking at set pieces and are toothless up front. That is enough for starters.
It is going to be a hard few weeks, as our players are normally on sun beds after easter can someone tell them it is early this year. I fear the fans will be with them.
The situation is in our hands, a couple more no shows and a poor result against Derby could be damaging to our prem status.
I always try to take some comfort but at the moment I am relying on points from odd sources, that there must be three worse clubs than us and we cant lose against Derby, surely.
The best team won.
I can only agree with what other prosters have already said.
A golden opportunity missed, not only in having a chance to win the cup but to regain some of the missing fans.
However after that, if you were a non season ticket holder who paid £15 to watch such an inept performance why would you come back and pay £26 to watch Boro in the PL.
I have never been so p$%£$d off after a game since Orient at home in the cup.
One more question, after playing good football in December and January, why have we resorted to hoofing the ball up the pitch?
I'm lost for words and I intend to vent my dangerously high anger, boiling point blood pressure, mammoth frustration and utter incredulity on the never ending, rose tinted, everything's great, never dare to question or criticise all things Boro, TB hating brigade that have done nothing but rant at me for daring to critices anything.
Last night was absolutely disgusting and very possibly the most painfull night of football watching I've done in a very, very, very long time.
" As for Tony Black..."We all know that since Eindhoven Gibson's been off the boil and we've suffered as a result, so criticism of him during this time for me is fair and valid. As too is questioning whether he should have stayed on given his obvious lack of the same drive that he had before, during this time."
Read those last two paragraphs again. Everything that happened in them is down to Gibbo. Without him we would possibly not have a club at all. It is not "fair and valid" to question whether he should stay on."
Steve Gibson hired Gareth Southgate. Steve Gibson chose to a rookie instead of going for O' Neil and the like in order to save money and for continuity.
There's utterly no point in breaking the bank for samba stars if you're then going to leave them in these peoples hands. People who are simply not up to the job. We need a proper manger. How can people in here just not see it ?
We need someone who can lead, motivate, inspire, organise, discipline, coach and manage players. Something Gareth Bloody Southgate just cannot do.
We need someone who can imprint the utter importance of that shirt into the minds of the players that have the incredibly great fortune to wear it so that when they step foot on any pitch that they prefer to die rather than to ever give up or fail.
Where was the heart last night ? Where was the all out hunger to get to the final ? Where was the never say die attitude? I just can't believe how bad we were and how little we seemed to want to win that game.
There was none. Absolutely none and to see that in any game is criminal, but to see it especially in this one where we had the chance to really put the club, the town, and all the people of this area firmly on the map - people who get nothing but abuse from all sides of the nation, was just pathetic in the extreme.
WE NEED A PROPER MANAGER.
WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE DROSS THAT IS THE BACKROOM TEAM AND PUT A NEW ONE IN PLACE WITH FRESH NEW IDEAS AND MOTIVATIONS, AS THIS LOT JUST AIN'T WORKIN.
SOUTHGATE OUT.
Aston Villa were rubbish just a few seasons ago. They were all over the place. Look at them now. It isn't bloody coincidence, it's called Martin Bloody O'Neil who knows what he's bloody doing.
How can people in here just not see this ?
Oh yeah, when are we going to get that old chestnut about being able to fully concentrate on the league now ?
TB.
**AV writes: The league? Now we are out of the cup we can concentrate on the recriminations.
Ha ha, poor Ridsdale. Trying to start an argument in an empty room again, stirring it in your war against an imaginary clique while most of us are just gutted about the match. Keep your cheap attempts to score points on that other board. Some of us post on here to get away from those pathetic antics.
**AV writes: Yes please, keep these arguments on the other board where they belong.
I drove 110 miles to watch the game yesterday wth my wife and 2 step-kids. My step son is a Boro fan (because of me) despite being born in Bolton and living between Blackburn and Preston.
When he said to me before we set off, "do you think we'll win?" I dismissed his worries about the results on Saturday. As I said, "the players will never have a better chance, there's no way they'll blow it!"
The look on his face at half time was tragic. He was already getting mickey-taking texts from his real Dad and his school mates who already think Boro are a joke. I'm not sure that the players understand what we invest in their performance each week.
Here was a chance to hook a new generation of fans who hadn't seen the game live before and who could learn to suffer in the year's to come. An opportunity completely wasted by an inept team and a lacklustre performance.
I don't think I ever criticised the players in this way before but I'm afraid that I'm going to try and wean myself off supporting Boro as it hurts too much.
"What a load a rubbish, what a load a rubbish, what a load a rubbish"
When oh bloody well will Steve Gibson realise Boro are going backwards? Poor league performances and now last nights lot of rubbish.
We struggled against Bristol City and Sheff Utd in previous rounds and got our just desserts against Cardiff.
For gods sake Gibbo pull yerself together and get a manager that demands respect and gets results, sadly Southgate just isn't that man. I've moaned on to get Louis Van Gaal, he wouldn't stand fot that lot of rubbish last night of this season.
In my opinion lying 12th and only 4 points above relegation in the Premier League just isn't good enough, we should be top 10 at the least if Gibbo wants us to progress.
Lets put this season to bed and try and progress next season under a diferent manager. I hate to say it as he is a decent man, but Southgate must be sacked at the end of the season.
Gutted, absolutely gutted about what is happening to our beloved Boro in the past couple of years.
I thought that I would leave my post until 12 hours or so after the game to let the anger subside and post something which was considered.
Well I've considered and Boro were a disgrace, shameful and an embarassment, inept, incompetent and not one of the eleven were fit to wear the shirt.
In my opinion the players bottled it, they saw all the obstacles to winning the cup suddenly removed and couldnt take the pressure, rabbits in headlights, they should be fined a months salary for such an inept performance.
The only two players on the pitch who seemed to accept any glimmer of responsibility were huth and Rocky, who saw a stack of the ball and was never scared to take the ball he didnt hide, sadly he still had a cr*p game, every pass went astray.
As for Arca he has clearly got 'captains' syndrome, he was woeful a different player to the one who played earlier in the year.
The strikers were anonymous, maybe because the midfield never got the ball to them, Alves can be excused being a 'new boy' Mido and Tuncay were dross.
The first goal left me gawping in disbelief, how did a player surrounded by so many defenders manage to get his shot off? Because they all stood and watched him.
I could go on, but its all been said, yesterday was a reality check, I hope GS has learnt a lot about his players from that performance, too many of them hid.
Before the match I would have said that in the summer we need a keeper, left back and another striker, but clearly what we need are new players who will take responsibility when the heat is on, and it appears we are now desperate for a central midfield player.
I read reports yesterday that GS is to be given between £20 & £30 million in the summer, he will need every penny.
Never again will we be presented with such a golden opportunity to win a cup, never.
Going off at a tangent slightly , a lot has been written about the club needing PR initiatives to get bums on seats, well never was there a better opportunity than yesterday, 34000 fans, waiting to be convinced to come to every match and the players let us down.
I'll still be at the Derby match though!
Angry, disappointed and sickened but also dumbfounded. A defeat that feels like no other: because of our (well, the fans) high expectations, because of what was realistically possible this year (even if we haven't been particularly convincing) and, above all, the submissive nature of the performance.
It will stick around for years this one and will surely be a pivotal moment for Southgate and certain players if not MFC and the supporters.
Wolves and orient were bad but at least we had a go in those games, and anyway we'd supposedly slain the ghost of underachievement in 2004 - hadn't we?
As Ray Porter has pointed out - it is amazing how Arca keeps getting his game. If as GS suggested, the occasion got to the players, why wasn't George brought on to at least add some bite and experience. In fact why not replace the entire ineffectual and overrun midfield with Zippy and Bungle as well?
Perhaps the only positives to emerge from this will be short term financial ones, at least for the fans, with the costs of possibly two wembley trips avoided and, surely, significant discounts on season tickets next year?
" Danny Wrote...
Lets put this season to bed and try and progress next season under a diferent manager. I hate to say it as he is a decent man, but Southgate must be sacked at the end of the season. "
I've been saying this from day one and totally agree with what you've said.
Perhaps now those who threw abuse at me might just be thinking twice given where we are in the league and the games we have ahead of us.
It isn't just this one game. It has been many, like Reading, where the improtance was truly massive and this just didn't penetrate the minds of those wearing the shirt and getting paid handsomly to do so.
This is the problem. As always it's a case of which Boro turns up on the bus as we all know all too well and this simply isn't good enough anymore.
" **AV writes: The league? Now we are out of the cup we can concentrate on the recriminations.... "
Personally, I really don't want any. I just want the realisation from this stubborn, stubborn chairman that he made a mistake, that's all.
I just want the realisation from this stubborn, stubborn chairman that changes at the backroom level are essential, not just for the sake of change, but so that we can try somthing new, as the present lot have had their long, long go and it's only fair, right, proper and intelligent to move on and give people with better CV's AND EXPERIENCE a go.
There are three key positions where change MUST happen if we are to improve.
We need a new head of sports science who will get the players stronger, fitter and leaner. Like the guy at Tottenham has done.
We need someone, not a sports psycologist, who can talk to players on their level and bring out the very best of them by developing an all out winning mentality. I don't care who this is and what his qualifications are or are not, as long as he's respected and can do the job.
Finally, we need to look at the rehab area, identify why we get so many injuries especially early on in the season, and we need to hook up with a top clinic so that players get the very best treatment and are back in action asap.
I just want progress. I don't want to be right and I have no intention of ever saying I told you so, nor does anyone else in here, as this is not what we are all about.
But Gareth must go, and he must go NOW, not at the end of the season when we may well be in the Championship, but NOW.
Bring someone in who commands respect, a la Capello, who will make these players stand up and take notice.
We must act NOW before it's too late.
TB
Nigel
Like many I will be at Villa on Wednesday night. My son is coming with me to make sure I dont top myself.
After that I dont know. I have friends here in Derby who I would normally take up. I just honestly dont know if my heart is in it.
The thought of 20,000 Boro fans in the Riverside waiting for the team to turn up doesnt bear thinking about. Sadly, they may still be waiting at 4.50pm.
I notice reading the JFH interview that the Gazette report no Boro player would be interviewed after the match.
That speaks volumes to me, they didnt even have the guts to hold up their hands, apologise and say sorry that was totally unacceptable, pathetic!
I forgot on my last post to congratulate Cardiff, they had the right attitude and had Boro sown up for the full 90, good luck to them.
we are out of the cup but never mind, Newcastle are in relegation trouble, eh!
I dont feel angry or upset I just feel Numb.
We seemed frightened of a full Riverside and the expectation. Once they scored - hand ball or not- there was no response apart from fear.
A few points:
Tuncay and Alves have hardly played together for us and that showed as we saw them both competing for the same ball instead of one making a run off the other.
I warned about Aliadierre's ban being crucial as he had an understanding upfront with the equally pacy Tuncay.
He was starting to score but more than that it was his movement into the channels or at the defence together with teamwork that gave the midfeild chance to push up.
I am now gonna suggest what I was saying earlier in the season - push O'neil inside next to Rochembach and let O'Neil play the Gerrard role and Rocky play the Mascerano role. Our players are not as good as the Liverpool players I hear you cry. Yesterday maybe but at Anfield there wasnt that much in it.
I believe Richard Yales comment to be spot on - Pogatetz doesn't know if he is at left back or centreback. Pogger is a great centreback now and I think he was half expecting Grounds to mark the second goal scorer although Grounds wasnt on the pitch.
Pogger has also come narrow before into a more central role leading to goals for the opposition from wide. Southgate should keep it simple with Pogger, who knows wether Grounds would have stopped that second goal anyway the ball in was a peach and the great diving header must have shown our lads that Cardiff attack was well committed.
When Alves went for goal against Cardiffs grey haired defender he should have stood up while the ball was at his feet and put it in the net instead off demanding a penalty.That incident was a microcosm for the whole match. [ The ref awarded nothing ,we failed to score and the opposition kept their shape and continued to pass it.]
Downing was having some effect on the left but was neutralised by once he was moved to the right.
Cardiff played well to a game plan and although they tired at the end off both halves deserved the victory as our team had nothing to add to the occasion .
I dont think Man U will sack Fergie for the FA cup defeat and I dont think sacking Southgate will help us now.
I was interested in Tony Mowbrays reaction on the radio, even at 5-1 up he was attacking yet prudent and would not relent until the whistle.
He also said that the fans got on his back a few weeks ago as results went against them but he knew it was the way they played that got them where they were anyway and so would not change things.
We could have had Martin O'Neil too so it is important Southgate shows he has some control in the next match as its crunch time!
AV, can you please ask that nice Mr Gibson that next time he makes any comments to the FA, he remembers to ask them that can we please only play teams such as Man U or Liverpool or anyone else that gives you lots of time on the ball, as the boro don't like these nasty bully teams that run around after you, close you down, put you under pressure, or gererally make you do an ounce of work for the ridiculous overinflated salaries paid to the squad.
It'll have to be a very long time before anyone from mfc DARES to ask me or a single other supporter to come and fill the empty seats when the entire country has just been witness to the most spineless, gutless display of capitulation that drops the entire town back into the position of national laughing stock that the media so enjoys using, and leaves it's inhabitants unable to utter a single word in disagreement.
Maybe a shop selling landmines and shovels, positioned somewhere near Hurworth may be seen as an appropriate profit opportunity about now?
For the first time I have to agree with the sack Southgate brigade. Reflecting on that performance and the run of fluked games leading up to it, plus looking at our precarious position in the PL, the team is now stuck in reverse gear. This is not progress.
Before Gibbo injects another 20 or 30 million he needs to bring in an experienced management team. Otherwise he will be wasting his money.
A totally embarrassing, humiliating & disappointing performance - I have never felt so let down by the team. They have made us look a complete joke around the world on TV. More ammunition for the so-called experts to put us down.
Mr Gibson should seriously think about what needs doing to improve things, rather than concentrating on what spin he can use in his annual letter with the season ticket forms!! The last 2 years we have been led on with promises of a "top drawer manager" and "spectacular signings". I think a lot of fans will think carfully before renewing next season.
Any wonder we fail to attract large crowds when we keep on serving up performances and result like that?
Regardless of what the BBC predicator can produce - relegation IS a real possibility if no improvement is made soon.
I think the Derby game may see a record lowest crowd at the Riverside!
Ian - Good luck on Wednesday night, you never know a miracle may occur and three of your 'unexpected points' may appear.
As for the Derby match I'll be on Teesside visiting family anyway and being the optimistic fool that I am hope that Boro may turn in a barn storming performance!
I'm not sure at the moment though that I would travel any distance specifically to watch them, yesterdays performance was a disaster.
I notice no-one has pointed out that apart from Ali we had a full strength side out yesterday.
So back to the league then.
Reasons to be cheerful!
I cant see these players recovering psychologically by Wednesday. Villa have regularly stuffed us by 3 or 4 goals at the Riverside but its a while since they did so at home - 5-1 the last time I guess - reckon they could match that only I cant see Boro scoring unless there's an og.
Then its Arsenal - they have a 6-1 at Riverside and several 4s and 5s against us at Highbury and 7-0 so they must be good for emulating that again.
then its Derby at home - now if I remember last time Derby went down they lost 5-1 at Riverside but they were a worse team the time before and they came to us and won 4-1.
In truth the bottom 8 this season should all be relegated as its such a dreadful league - the team immediately above us Tottenham are on another planet compared to us.
If it wasnt for Derby County I wonder what odds you would have got now on all 3 NE sides going down. I still think Fulham will escape so that means 2 of us are going down - the likely escapee? probably the Mackems!
Southgate must go today not the end of the season.
Of course back in the Championship there would be genuinely competitive football to go see every week but the current squad would likely struggle there too. Our next big derby fixture could be against the Pools.
And 20M to spend? Thats what we paid for Alves and Mido combined isnt it?
Frankly they both look like genuine free transfer material to me. Bit like Tuncay and the Gook. Indeed would anyone pay money for any player in this squad?
The simple truth is that Boro just didn’t turn up – maybe it was down to poor preparation? Or is it just a lack of ability and fitness in key (all?) areas of the pitch. The only player who for me escaped was Huth.
I think what has been evident in recent games is that since Boro have been set up to play a counter-attacking style of football it has left the team impotent when opponents choose to defend and press the midfield.
What we have seen is either:
* Aimless long balls
* A series of square passes followed by a back pass and then an aimless long ball
* A series of square passes followed by a badly executed ‘killer’ pass
* Wing play that ends up either in a cul-de-sac or an early over-hit cross
* The movement up front is so good that the midfield can’t find them
In summary:
* We learnt nothing from 2 games with Sheff Utd, though Cardiff learnt plenty.
* The midfield needs overhauling immediately – Arca out, O’Neil into the centre and Tuncay on the right.
* Alves and Ali up front – Mido used tactically until he’s fit.
* Pogi isn’t quick enough to play left back - Grounds links up better with Downing
* Allow Huth and Wheater to bring the ball out of defence to make space for the midfield.
The only good news after yesterday was that I finally got to speak to my Dad today He would not pick up the phone after the match and I had suspicions of him topping himself .
But Seriously- Rockemback was not at his best but was the only slight positive as he continued to try and hold our midfield together single handed for most of the game. He never gave up right to the end and it seemed that Cardiff had more players than us.
Congratulations to Cardiff and their fans but I am now supporting West Brom in the cup.
Southgate has never had a plan B if Plan A is not working and we looked out of ideas at home in front of a full house.
As no Boro player wants to speak about the performance I can only assume that they will do their talking on the pitch .
Lets hope so!!!!!
COME ON BORO!!!
I feel like a drunken Delia at Norwich - Where are you, lets be having you ,burp - except I am taking to the players not the crowd.
One goal yesterday and our players would have ignited the crowd , but most of the team looked flat.
Southgate takes the blame as the manager, he sets out the team and tactics and makes the changes during the game. He has held his hands up and is man enough for doing it.
In our team we had international players and seasoned professionals. There should have been enough gumption to change things on the pitch.
As they clearly didnt communicate during the 90 minutes, as they clearly deserted under fire is it any surprise no one fronted up after the match?
That is it on the blog front for the moment, must concentrate on some work to pay for the tickets for Villa.
Southgate takes the blame as the manager, he sets out the team and tactics and makes the changes during the game. He has held his hands up and is man enough for doing it.
In our team we had international players and seasoned professionals. There should have been enough gumption to change things on the pitch.
As they clearly didnt communicate during the 90 minutes, as they clearly deserted under fire is it any surprise no one fronted up after the match?
That is it on the blog front for the moment, must concentrate on some work to pay for the tickets for Villa.
TAKE THE OLD AYRESOME PARK GATES AWAY,THE CURSE IS COMING BACK
What would Brian Clough thought of that !
Southgate get these players focussed for Gods sake.
I went to the game, and I, like many other Boro fans felt entirley let down, humilated and demanding answers from what was the worst performance i have seen since we played Watford at Vicerage Road last season.
None of the players turned up, and personally i thought Julio Arca was appalling and why he is captain i will never know. We froze simple as that.
But, i am also sick of this negative attitude from Middlesbrough fans. One of the reasons we played badly is probably because we had a full house for once, again adding a lot of pressure. If we filled the stadium week in week out, we probably cud have dealt with it.
Gibson has done a fantastic job, and every Boro fan, despite the lacklusture display yesterday, owes him big time. Southgate, who Wenger highly rates, is desperate to
do good things here.
Now come on, lets try to be positive at this bleak time and finish the season with a bang....starting against VILLA on wednesday!!!!!
Werdemouth's analysis and ideas for success for the remainder of the season are spot on.
Southgate I hope you are reading this!
Hey Vic, here's a trivia question that highlights our scoring deficiencies:
Who is the only 'Boro striker to score in cup competitions this season?
(The answer may either amuse you or make you shudder.)
**AV writes: Definitely a shudder.
A defining moment is how I would describe the game. I didn't go because I sat numbed with both cold and acute boredom through the Reading debacle only to be accused of not supporting the club so figured they would do better without me.
The woeful ineptness against Reading was "Typical Boro". The capitulation and handing over of three points to a team who had lost 8 on the bounce was "Typical Boro". The resultant displeasure between fans and manager was "Typical Boro". Sadly the fact that the 1st eleven did not turn up on Sunday was again "Typical Boro".
We have seen it all before, expectation levels way beyond realisabllity from the club. So why do I say that the Cardiff game was a defining moment?
For me it proved that we have far too many players who have failed to convince a lot of us on their ability to perform at this level week in week out.
They by and large with only one or two exceptions are journeymen squad players at best. In other words cast offs and rejects who on their day can sometimes over perform and pull off a decent performance or even short runs of performances but cannot do it consistently.
When we have five or more of these players (as against Reading) under-performing it was there for all to see. However when we have 8 of them under-performing, unable to lift their drive or motivation levels and do not possess the ability of skill in abundance to compensate then we have "Typical Boro" in a grand fashion.
Just analyse what we really have:
A management team learning the trade.
A goalkeeper who is average (no better, no worse)
Luke Young who has always been pretty good and hard working but has never quite made the top Premier level
David Wheater a local lad who tries hard, gives us some hope and should further improve
Robert Huth who has never to my knowledge been able to play half a dozen games in the Premiership back to back thus causing constant defensive reshuffling
Pogatetz who wears his heart on his sleeve but rarely looks like an accomplished left back.
Gary O'Neil a terrier who runs and runs, but isn't that just the problem with terriers, after a while they start to irritate (at least Morrison had an end product occasionally).
Rocky who has shown something finally of late but it never leads to anything of merit but hey Sporting want him back and a few unheard of Brazilian teams who can't afford his Boro wages.
Arca a likeable genuine chap with a quarter of Juninho's ability but lightweight at this level, but he did stand out at Sunderland!
Stewie who is the only real bit of class and looks like he can perform at the highest level.
Tuncay who looks great on You Tube but then again so do some real mingers.
Mido who has more clubs than Tiger Woods and never achieved at any of them.
Alves, Massimo with a bit more stubble plus and extra £4m on the price tag!
Aliadiere, another nice lad just can't score goals which is a bit disappointing for a striker.
DGL I won't even pass comment on.
The Boat who can come off the bench and do a job.
Clattermole, a slimline Phil Stamp!
Brad Jones, nice lad but we all know ultimately is going to end up playing in league 2 at best.
I won't go on and on and on as by now its pretty obvious where our problems lie and why. Difficulty is in admitting it and then doing something about it, if we can afford to, otherwise we will continue to have more of "Typical Boro" in the future. We can "afford" the luxury of some squad players but not a squad full of them!
That was so guttless. I'm just so sick of these woeful heartless and gutless performances that i just cant tell you.
For what its worth i too am one of the sack Southgate brigade, but i really cant see him get the bullet as Gibbo's a know it all and so we just have to hope we stay up.
Another summer coming up where we just have to hope as we always do that next season will be better. I cant see it but heres hoping anyway.
To be honest its getting harder and harder to support the Boro when so many very highly paid players just arent bothered if we win lose or draw. Is it any wonder that crowds are down so much? i wont be renewing.
Each season i say the same thing and each season I renew but if Southgate and co are still here this time i wont - sorry. but Ive had enough as well.
Its just so sad.
The BBC cricket website blog has been inundated with disgusted supporters after the debacle in NZ - over 250 contributions - and the way this one is going it looks set to comfortably top the 100 mark and no wonder!
I had the nasty suspicion yesterday that for all Southgate's protestations to the contrary, the attitude throughout Hurworth ever since the draw was made has been something like "we just have to turn up and we've won".
Clearly nothing had been learned in those games and my word how we paid the price yesterday.
Apart from Bristol in rnd 3, the other three clubs we have played have been languishing in their respective divisions.
Mansfield sacked Billy Deardon on Saturday after their latest defeat left them firmly stuck in second bottom yet the performance they put in against us made you wonder how on earth that could be true.
Likewise Sheffield and now Cardiff - both generally off-colour if not poor this season and yet both easily able to compete with the 'elite' of the Premiership. So all of their fans must have mixed feelings about their cup achievements.
But I am beginning to think that championship football would be no bad thing if the players can play like this and compete in the cup competitions so well.
But what more can be said about Boro? The humiliation of such a gutless show on live terrestrial TV will take an awfully long time to fade - if it ever does - and the battered reputation of Boro players and staff possibly never will.
It will take a massive effort a) to simply stay in the division and b) ever fill the ground again.
Who was it that said "the more things change, the more they stay the same?"
I posted for all out attack pre Cardiff game, Boro opted for no attacking at all.
I now suggest a more prudent approach against Villa.
5 - 4 - 1
Schwarzer (as we have no one better)
Young
Wheater
Huth
Pogi
Grounds
O'Neill
Boteng
Rocky
Downing
Tuncay
I'm off to Cheltenham now for a jolly up so won't be responding to any comments on this post (if anyone cares)
C'Mon Boro!
At last the town wakes up to the reality of the club! Its a miracle. Boro supporters have been far too generous for far too long and I for one am hoping this is the last straw.
Yesterday the reality of our hapless millionaires was laid bare for not only a full house but the whole nation to see and lo! a new era in the history of Middlesbrough FC dawned (or at least here's hoping).
Sure Southgate is a hopeless manager, but where's the surprise there? Allowed to manage his mates in the same way he captained them, he was always doomed to failure.
But he should never have been allowed to be put in that position until he had both got the relevant qualifications (would any of us be allowed to do our jobs without ours?!) and had cut his teeth in managing Darlo or some such lower league team.
But the real blame has to lie at the door of the Gibson and Lamb, a regime looking increasingly likely to head the same way as previous dictatorships before them.
One of us? Don't make me laugh! Gibson has done plenty for the Boro but his time is at an end. £12m on Alves does not hide the fact that Gibson has appointed a stooge to manage the club and do his bidding.
When will we all wake up and smell the smog? Gibson's time has to be at an end and we the fans must be the ones to take the club off his hands and make it a truly great club of the people for the people.
Werdermouth is spot on !
Arca has been poor for several games and requires a rest. If Southgate plays him against Villa it will also tell us a lot about him. Bring the "Boat"back to steady the ship.
Mendieta gets star billing every week for the reserves but isnt in Southgates thoughts. Eh?
We are short of experience in most positions so Riggott is allowed to go out on loan,when we need points for survival.Eh ?
Mido is about 2 stone overweight and nothing is done about it. Eh ?
Yakuba is fined 2 weeks wages for being late is told his attitude stinks and will be shipped out in the summer. Now playing like a man possessed and 2 stone lighter. Eh?
Southgate announces he wont criticise referees who are blatantly overzealous in issuing yellow cards. Eh? 9 cards in the Reading game,was there one bad tackle ?
Come on Gareth hard decisions need to be made now! If you cant do it move over.
Embarrassing. At least if you learn from your mistakes, Gareth has plenty of material to work on for the next game.
I noticed the Cardiff players seemed to intentionally give Pog plenty of space at left back, knowing that our clueless players would eventually pass the ball backwards and sideways to him and that he has the worst distribution of any of our team.
This match was as surprising as the win against Arsenal - a performance that came from nowhere. How we could have deteriorated so badly since then is hard to believe.
Boro played awful. I can't believe what an oppurtunity they have wasted.
I just hope this doesn't ruin our league form. i would aim for o-o at villa. We can't score the goals so just don't concede.
When they have got their confidence back I'm sure we will score more again. I'm still going to the Derby game but they will be under a lot of pressure for points by then so i hope they can cope.
When Boro lost the ball at the weekend everyone in the crowd groans, including me, which probably doesn't help. If they had played well though a large crowd would have really helped them. The stadium was full but you could hear the Cardiff fans the whole time, because they were playing so well. It should have been the other way round.
We've still got 10 games so we have to make the most of them, now there are no distractions.
On a positive note, last time things went wrong for Boro( slipped into the relegation zone) we played Arsenal and beat them so we can do the same again.
Come on Boro!
Went to the game Sunday - wish i'd stayed at home then i could have switched the tv off!!!! We played for the first 4 minutes then that was it ....shift done in front of the asked for full house!!
I was hoping for an announcement from the Riverside today telling us Gareth had resigned but I should have known better..... cushy job needing no qualifications or achievement, who gives a job like that up?
Boro v Blackburn 1-2
Wigan v Boro 1-0
Boro v Sunderland 2-2
Boro v Aston Villa 0-3
Reading v Boro 1-1
Derby v Boro 0-1
Boro v West Ham 1-2
Birmingham v Boro 3-0
Mansfield v Boro 0-2
Boro v Fulham 1-0
Sheff. Utd. v Boro 0-0
Boro v Sheff. Ud. 1-0
Boro v Reading 0-1
Boro v Cardiff City 0-2
There have been far too many occasions this season when the Boro didn’t turn up. Gutless and uninspired through most of the season with a purple patch here and there, the fans and Steve Gibson have been let down big time. Sadly, this is the pattern which we’ve come to recognise through the Robson and McLaren eras and it’s now being repeated in Southgate’s reign.
Other than the fans’ disappointment I see two common factors. One, the appointment of rookie managers and (although we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors), two, an apparently undemanding chairman.
We’ve had too many excuses (tiredness, bad day, injuries) and too many ‘Don’t know’s from Gareth. I believe it’s time for Steve Gibson to stand up and be counted.
Tony Black, I think you have a persecution complex. You shouldn't take it so personally when people have a different opinion to you. Although I found it quite amusing that you started your monologue with "I'm lost for words".
Steve Gibson has given Gareth Southgate a five year contract. He explained why, and it made sense. When Southgate is into the fifth year of that contract he will be judged, and then Mr Gibson will decide whether or not to renew it.
Martin O'Neill wanted to bring in all his own staff. They were to train the team during the week and he was to come up from the midlands for the match and go straight back afterwards. This was unacceptable for Gibbo and talks went no further. I think Gibbo got that one right.
Nearly all the clubs in the bottom half have changed their manager during this season. It's the clubs that haven't that look most likely to avoid relegation.
I'm happy that we have a chairman that sticks by his managers.
Which clown says we played badly beacause of a full house? Get real! Are you related to one of the players, or julio arca in disguise?
The whole team were a disgrace, absolute disgrace. There can be no excuses, and the players know that! But I bet they dont really care, they certainly didnt show it.
And they wonder why the ground has 10000 empty seats every week? I wont be going back down there for a very long time, if at all.
And I wonder why some older Boro fans are cynical, and they shake their heads and suck in the air through their teeth Teesside style! When you mention going to see the Boro play. its because they have put up with this crap for longer than some of us, one cup apart!
i'd love to post my shirt back to the club, as i wont be wearing it anymore. but they are not bothered, and it would be a waste of a stamp
TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES BORO
worst Boro performance ( if you could call it that) ever
DISGRACEFUL, LAZY, INCOMPETENT YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
THEY OUGHT TO REFUND EVERY FAN WHO CAME
JULIO ARCA PLEASE GO BACK TO SUNDERLAND
AND TAKE YOUR MATE ROCKY WITH YOU
Sorry AV, rant over
come on Darlo!
I'm baffled by Gareth Southate's comments that he thought he didnt pitch the game at the players in the right way.
Hang on a minute, your telling me that you now have to act like a sales manager to get your players up for a game?
Im sorry I just dont believe it. You're in the FA Cup semi final at home to a poor team that is in the bottom half of the championship and you know three days before that the stadium will be packed to the rafters.
I'll tell you what if it was me in those changing rooms I'd have been bouncing of the walls dying to get out there to put my team into the semi finals of the worlds best cup and at Wembley. What more do you want as a player?
Downing has just signed because he wants success at his home town club and for the privilege we pay him £40k a week. Yet he sneaks of out the back door instead of facing the press when it goes wrong. And where was our captain? Why isnt he out saying it wasnt good enough?
Its all to easy for the manager to come and take the blame, for me GS should have sent the worst 5 out there to explain themselves.
Shocking display, im not going to anymore games this season..
thanks
What a good bet Cardiff were at 33 to 1 for a 0-2 score line. Wonder if anyone won?
Park the team bus infront of goal at Villa, if Mido is onboard it will never move.
And BURN the captains armband it is a curse.
The answer is not sacking Southgate. He should not be made to pay for the players actions.
Yes he has taken the blame but when does Wenger, Fergie or Benitez come out and publicly slate their players?
They dont and Southgate is doing the same. I'd rather have that than a guy with a stupid grin saying we where magnificent after a 7-0 thrashing.
Southgate is learning but what have we to judge him on? We are not championship contenders nor are we going to challenge for the champions league places. Even the uefa cup is out of reach so what do we have to judge against?
A lucky UEFA cup run that masked over players on 60k-70k and week finishing 14th in the league?
Come on get real. We are out of the cup because of a bad display. I'd rather that than go down or would anyone fancy Colchester on a rainy Tuesday night?
exactly...
COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!
We dont have a goalkeeper
We dont have any midfield players
We dont have anyone who scores goals
We dont have anyone who plays good through balls
We only get 10% of our crosses, free kicks and corners anywhere near the penalty box. The majority hit the first man
Can the management not see this? Its not rocket science
Forgot a very important one:
We dont have a captain or any leaders
Simon Brown - Just to make clear that i wasn't implying that the full house was the reason we played badly. I was saying that because we played so bad the crowd became a negative affect at times because there were more people there to moan about it , which is understandable.
Each time Boro did a bad pass everyone shouted and was moaning which isn't going to help although I know why, because it was so frustrating. I agree that there are no excuses for the way the Boro played and i hope i don't see another performance like that from Boro again.
Never mind moaning on about how bad Boro were on Sunday, something has got to change so why not start planning on what to do now.
Yes, Boro underperformed against a Cardiff side who are 14th in the championship but can't we move on from that straight away.
I'm sick of people who support other teams coming up to me and telling me how bad Boro were and that they should be in the championship. I'm sure other Boro fans have recieved comments like that recently as well.
I'm sick of comments like that and don't think we as fans deserve them comments. That's why something should change and I as a loyal Middlesbrough fan would like to voice my opinion on what should be done rather than what Boro have just done.
Southgate wants to play 'flowing football' so why not teach players in the youth teams to play like that. You can't teach the players at Boro to play football like that straight away, flowing football has to be played at a younger age for it to work well.
Take arsenal for example. The reason they are so good at playing this type of football is because all of them players have played that way from a very young age.
So if Southgate wants flowing football then teach it to the youngsters so that way when they become good enough to jump to the first team Southgate will have his perfect style of play.
But for now we need a stable team who can keep Middlesbrough in the premiership and pushing for a uefa cup place. This can only be done with the right mixture of youth and experience in the team.
When we won the Carling Cup we had the perfect mixture of youth and experience. We had experience such as Mendieta, Zenden, Juninho, Southgate, Schwarzer, and Mills. All of them players had European or international experience. Then we had young players in the team back then such as Downing and Riggott.
At this moment in time the only players with great European or international experience is Schwarzer and possibly Mido. I have to admit we now have some great youngsters but to get the best out of them we need natural leaders with great experience for them to look up to.
So for now there is no need to look for younger players as we have an endless amount of them coming through the youth system, we need to invest in experience and that could be the way to get back into the UEFA Cup.
Another nice addition to the boro squad that I'm sure all fans would like to see is a natural goalscorer like Yakubu, Viduka or Hasslebaink were when we were in the UEFA Cup. And I'm sure a gritty, hard tackling centre midfielder would be nice also.
I think Southgate should stay as the manager as he is loyal and can admit his faults. The way Southgate could improve is if showed more passion, grit, and hunger during matches. He clearly has alot of work to do to win back the boro faithfull.
We went to Cardiff at the weekend to meet up with some friends originally from Teesside and ardent Boro fans. We decided to stay down in Cardiff another day to watch the game with them,wished we hadnt bothered.
What a load of crap. That is an understatement. Listening to Bernie to nite he was spot on in saying what he did, they not only let the fans, their manager and themselves down, it was shocking, our friends wont be coming up to Teesside again in a hurry to watch his beloved boro,.
A very disappointed fan
I've just about calmed down now but that display will never be forgotten. That was our best chance ever of wining the FA Cup and the players blew it big style.
We've cocked up before. I remember being sick as a chip after Orient, Wolves, the play offs at Notts County. The only time worst was driving away from Wembley after Leicester had levlled.
This feels like a watershed moment. We can't go ahead like this. Either the manager goes (not likely) or a whole load of players go and then we start again from square one.
As it is we have probably lost 3000 season tickets and a whole generation of casuals who will take some persuading to come back after that.
If we don't get the next move right it could be like after Wolves when the whole things fell apart and we slipped towards liquidation and disaster.
You know what, that was just typical Boro.
I don't know why we were surprised. How many times? Get used to it. I did years ago.
Brad
Jack Charlton would never have let his players play with so little passion. He would have b*llocked them good and proper. I didn't see any evidence whatsoever of Gate having done that at half-time.
Why should I drive my usual round trip of 240 miles for the Derby game? Boro wouldn't come to see me if I was bad. I'm only going to turn up if they decide to turn up at both Villa and Arsenal. Sadly, I don't think I'll be in a minority.
Would the small minded moronic idiots at the match yesterday not have been better off expending their energy on singing and shouting for the Boro instead of singing the "sad geordie Kevin Keegan" ditty.
You do not hear Newcastle fans singing about the Boro so why do Boro fans insist with this irritating habit about a team that basically dont give a fig about us.
No doubt the same clowns who were singing this Keegan thing were the ones who were booing the Boro whilst the game was on. Disgraceful!
I despair at the fickleness and sheer stupidity of quite a number of the Boro fans these days. The idiot board FMTTM is a sad indictment of the feeble mindedness of certain Boro fans these days.
Boooooooooooooooooooooo!
Right, I know I'm gonna get slated for this by the "realists" but look, it is at times like this that you see who is ready to stand up and be counted.
Over the past two days I have heard people who claim to be life long diehard fans saying that it is the final straw, they are not going again, that they will give Derby a miss, squealing that Southgate should go, Gibson should go, the kiosk staff should go and life as we know will never be the same again.
But it will. Boro will bounce back. Even if we get relegated we are still all in this together and anyone who wants to bail out is welcome. We don't need faint hearts now, we need fighters. In the crowd as well as on the pitch.
I'll be there against Derby and anyone who won't needs to take a look at themselves. We are part of this. People talk about the players bottling it and showing no passion or fight but that is exactly what we need now from the chairman to the tea lady. Teesside steel.
We can whinge on hear and at the pub but Derby is a must win game and after that kick in the nuts we need to be as strong and united as possible. We need a crowd and we need to stand up and be counted.
I just feel so numb. I really thought we had our name on the cup this year. Has anyone else recognised the irony that James Morrison and Jonathan Greening who were deemed not good enough for the Boro are now in the semis. They aren't the most skillfull but at least the would fight for the cause. Something which is lacking in the current team.
I do feel that Southgate should go. Nice enough bloke but out of his depth. I hope West Bromwich win the cup - mainly because of Tony Mowbray. I dont want them to get promotion however as hopefully Steve Gibson would have more chance of making Mowbray our manager.
What an excellent job Mogga is doing. He was seemingly not even considered at the time Southgate was appointed. Bringing in Mowbray in the summer is the only thing I can think of at present that could re-ignite some passion - cant see it happening though.
Paul (an exiled Boro fan in the Midlands - not far from Wales AHHHHHHHHHHHH!)
Well I have had time to settle down, and I am still very dissapointed, the management are poor, they could not inject anything into the team at all.
Lets face it Mansfield fought us, Sheff Utd fought us and now Cardiff - WE JUST DONT LIKE A FIGHT (and dont say we beat them) we were made to look very ordinary and then eventually very poor.
What is it with the manager GROUNDS is playing very well but he always wants to move POGI to full back (he is not a full back) and was exposed more than once in the game.
As for for the guy talking about Martin O'Neil, his record speaks for itself, no matter what his training methods are, he has players playing for him, fighting for him and the team. 3 days a week would be better than what we get.
For all of of those who wrote last week about how safe we are, look at the table again 4 points from safety DO YOU THINK THAT IS ENOUGH, WITH THIS TEAM?
Just finished my cuppa and reading all of the emails posted after the sunday shambles. I have to say the people who write "lessons learned" come on people get real.
Mr Southgate has seen all of this many times this season, the "lessons learned" never do get learnt. I wrote several times during the season about the "missing midfield" and that is still the question: where are they?
We are very weak and I am glad that others finally see it as it actually is ROCK, ARCA, AND O'NIEL do not work together, in fact in so many games they do not work at all, therefore defence under pressure, forwards not able to provide pressure because nothing really comes to them.
And I am sorry to say the jury has come in on Alves 12 million wasted. A goalscorer in Dutch football - it is about the equivalent of our 2nd division. at least Maccarinie had some movement about him.
They didn't show the game on Showsports here in Dubai....a blessing. So I can't comment on the game; and I won't comment on the result other than to echo others in saying "typical BORO".
BUT I am right behind BLT. I will be on a flight home for the Derby game and I will be there supporting BORO.
Gibson is not daft, I have confidence that he will know who is to blame, and he will act accordingly. It will not be a public hanging, but he will take the actions required in his own good time. I still have faith in Gibbo and I still love the BORO.
BLT,
Look at the facts before you start slating fans who dont turn up. Average attendance this season is just over 26,000. The stadium has been empty all season and when we get to the point where the manager publically asks for fans to turn up and the club lowers prices for an FA Cup quarter final then of course more fans are going to turn up.
I have been to 6 away games this season and about the same in home games at an average cost of £300 for the tickets alone. Out of those games I've seen one game that was good Birmingham at home. So for value for money is that a good investment?
Think about it from a families point of view, to go to the same games they will have had to shell out 4-5 times more money than i have so how can you say we arnt in it to be counted?
The fact is there is 10 games left and out of those 10 games I wont go to any because i do not believe the money i will be spending warants the type of football i want to watch.
I've sat through Fulham and Reading, Sheff utd x 2 - I'm sorry but im not willing to shell out to watch Derby or for Portsmouth to get another result at the riverside.
So when you say stand up and be counted its utter rubbish. Fans dont matter anymore you saw that from the attitude of the players on Sunday.
Get a grip football dosnt care about you or me its run by money men who lap up the revenue.
AV, any ideas how much Boro made from ticket sales on Sunday compared to how much they received from the tv money?
**AV writes: I'm not sure but they get to keep the TV money but the gate money has to be split with the visiting club and the FA prize pool.
This topic really has provoked some serious debate and number of posts.
It seems the opinion of the majority wants rid of Southgate and more and more people question Gibson's judgement.
Lets face it, Boro are mediocre and have been for many seasons, even though Sir Gibbo thinks we are on the up???
How many games per season do we think Boro played well and entertained on a regular basis...hardly ever, Jackel and Hyde springs to mind.
I only hope Gibbo bites the bullet and lets Southgate go and appoints a respected manager that takes no crap and demands more from his players. Whether that be Van Gaal, Capello or Tony Mowbray i hope it happens sooner than later.
Or bring back Big Jack! now thats one man who'll sort us out and takes no crap from anyone.
BLT
Never been savaged by a posh sandwich with foam hands before!
See you at Villa, we are in upper Doug Ellis stand. Lets hope they have found the team bus and the players so they can turn up for this one, might even get there for the start, wonder if they will leave at half time?
A lot of people on here are suggesting that we have a poor team. I disagree, I think we have the potential to be a really good team, which makes it so gutting to see a performance like that on Sunday.
I also don't think it had anything to do with being spineless, I just think the players froze and were left clueless on how to get back into the game.
It is no coincidence that since Aliadiere got banned, we have been a completely different side, which shows his importance to the side.
I still am very optimistic about GS and where he is taking the side, and I have not felt that way for many a year, so as bad as Sunday was, I won't go over the top like you lot and talk as if this means relagation and the end for Boro.
It was only a couple of weeks ago when you all where saying how promising the side was looking, does that change overnight or with two results?
Come on Boro
I agree with BLT. I'm gutted as anyone but we havent got the time for self pity. We have got some big games coming up now and we cant afford to be arguing among ourselves and ripping into the players of the manager over over what has gone.
Let's make sure we get the points on the board soon as. Derby is huge. We MUST win that and it wont help if the crowd are booing every mistake.
What can I say that has not been said already on here!
I love going to watch Boro and my brother says I would still watch them in the Conference. However Sunday sickened me to the pit of my stomach!
I tried not to get too excited on Saturday night after the big boys crashed out because I knew it was our best chance of winning the cup in my lifetime and possibly ever!
Never did I expect the side to roll over with such a diabolical performance. I have never felt so let down at football match in my life! In fact I left before the hour it was that bad!
I honestly cannot see us getting another point and I will put an 'insurance policy' tenner on Derby to win here!
I would also say any critics of Aliadiere must now realise he is our main man. We have looked not even half the side without his pace and ability to scare opposition defenders!
As I posted yesterday, the Boro have been pretty crap throughout my lifetime. I am used to feeling gutted after a match although Sunday was undoubtedly a new low.
I fully understand all the 'sack Gates, Gibbo out' gloom. However, this is the team that ran Liverpool close a fortnight ago, that went unbeaten in 8, that was starting to make us sit up and take notice.
Hurt, embarassed, angry - you bet but Gibbo out?; sheer STUPIDITY! To be replaced by who exactly? I dont see DIC knocking at our door. We dont have a big enough fan base or potential to attract a major player. I have faith in Gates although it is being sorely tested.
I am GUTTED like we all are but maybe you get hardened to it. I was talking to a Saints fan today who was gutted that their best player was out for a month. "Who's that?" I asked, "Andrew Davies" came the reply. Wholehearted lad that he is, they were in the Prem 3 seasons ago now Dava is their best player.
At that, I phoned up the club and bought 2 tickets for the Villa game. Bloody hell, if I dont support them now we might be contemplating this 'doomsday scenario' sometime soon.
In answer to BLT, yes we need fight and you would get more from Steve Gibson (playing for Bulk haul), the tea ladies would gladly pull their stockings on - and as for Teesside Steel there is not a bit of it in the Riverside. It all came from Germany, that why British Steel dont have a sponsorship there anymore.
So lets get it right, the players are responsible for the fight, it is only them on the pitch that can do that, but lets face it THEY ARE JUST NOT UP TO IT ARE THEY?
rob j
Some of us were concerned that the form was slipping before the cup match, the signs were evident against SheffU and Reading, we hadnt been playing really well in many matches. The Cardiff match was a real slap in the face.
Something had to give in my situation living in Derby, it was either Cardiff or Villa. I chose Villa because I think that it is a very important match, we need to get ourselves clear of the relegation fight again. Oddly it is twice the price of the cup match and more inconvenient to get to than a Sunday lunchtime at the Riverside.
I may be a realist (unclean, drive him out, burn him at the stake) but I am also a Boro fan, I also choose times and dates to go to matches that fit in with the rest of my life and have done so for 44 years be it watching Jim Irvine, Eric McMordie, David Mills or Stewart Downing.
I will be there tomorrow night but will the Boro?
AV,
I think the Barnsley chairman was on before the Chelsea game saying that they would have to split ticket money 40% each then 20% goes to the FA.
If this is correct then Boro must have recived in the region of £200,000 for the gate receipts and around the same for the tv rights?
I have just watched the match again and if you can block out Lorro's constant my glass is half full drivel and moaning about the Boro you will see we were okay until the last third of the pitch .
There was a gap between midfield and attack and apart from going wide all that was on was trying the long ball all the time which did not work.
Once they got the second they shut up shop with 2 lines of 4 and we could not go through them.
They were dangerous for set pieces but not much else.
Mido should have come on for Pogger and go for a back 3 with Tuncay and Alves playing off Mido as its a cup match and we were going out. Grounds should have been on for Pogger in the first place I feel anyway.
The real insult apart from the handball for the first goal was that Huth got a hand in the face from Parry on the hour mark and no red card .
The Ref's, Lorro and the FA are a bunch of fools but will not stop me being a Boro fan and I will be going back to the Riverside no matter what miserable Lorro says.
Up the BORO!!!!
Can’t actually believe some of what is being written here – I felt compelled to post for the first time.
Some people really do need to calm down or get a dose of reality. You’d think we’d just been relegated. Yes, Sunday was horribly disappointing, but it doesn’t cancel out all the good work this season – of which there has been plenty.
That list of fixtures posted by John B where we didn’t turn up – most of them a load of rubbish. Some of them we won for god’s sake!! Then games like Sunderland, Villa, Blackburn where we had very good spells and should have got more than we did.
The jury’s in on Alves – a waste of money (Dave Connor) - are you having a laugh?! What, three starts and he’s a £12m write off?
Dave also says that some games ‘Rock, Arca and O’Neil do not work at all’ – the one thing they can’t be accused of is lacking effort. It’s just that final bit of quality. If O’Neil could finish he’d be player of the season and in the England squad. People are forgetting how good he was when he first joined. Yes, he’s had a dip, but who doesn’t?
We are in a better position than 12 months ago. An exciting squad is being built, dead wood has been taken off the wage bill, the academy stars have signed new contracts, what’s not to look forward to?
We’re in this together, it’s not the end of the world, let’s move on and get behind the team.
Neil (Baku):
Neil, You asked, "Where's a season ticket hurler when you need one??"
Just realised what you'd posted after the match and now I think I understand why the club moved to season cards - each a fraction of the mass of a season ticket book!
Less damage to the target and more likely to "boomerang" in the wind!
I am sure I have seen many such pathetic performances over the past 50 years (although perhaps none so important) but, thankfully ,time erodes "bad memories" faster and better than "good" ones.
I do feel sorry for all the kids to whom disappointment was new and tragic and the end of the world.
BLAME THE PLAYERS - the 11/14 most of us would have agreed with. On paper,we have a decent squad , certainly good enough to compete at mid-table premiership level.
So, why didn't they perform ? As individuals they should be accomplished enough in their own right (these guys are nearly all Internationals - amongst the best 1000 or so footballers in the world !) to do what is required out on the pitch . So why don't they ? Fitness? Attitude? Discipline ?
BLAME THE COACHES - Do the players actually meet each other between games? What do they practise ? I havn't seen any sign of e.g the keeper having an undertanding with his defence , the midfield working together, the forwards anticipating a through ball etc.
Has anyone seen a "practised" move , from corner, free-kick etc this season ? something different /special/unexpected (by the opposition).
I can understand Southgate not pillorying his players , but has he got them in for extra training? Will he be trying something different in next games? Will any be dropped ?
I don't consider replacing Southgate now would serve any purpose, but please Gareth show you have "Learned" something .
A few suggestions ;-
Make the squad watch the game again and again and again
Try Jones/Turnbull in goal- Schwarzer commands no confidence in his defenders and must surely leave in the Summer.
Make Huth captain , he seems both physically and verbally strong and prepared to boss those around him.
If Shawky is fit , give him a chance as the holding midfielder-
TEAM
4-3-3 (and stick with it ! )
Turnbull(jones)
Young,Huth, Wheater(pogatetz), Grounds(taylor),
O'Neil,Shawky,Rocky(Sanli),Downing,Alves(MIdo),Sanli (Aliadiere when available).
Front 3 to play in opponents half (not coming back to collect the ball) and as a unit (all forward together ).
Curious how taking on the whipping boys of the PL Derby County has suddenly become a formidable task?
Just shows how little belief the people of Teesside now have on the club, the players and the management. Even the presence of plenty of local lads in the squad is not going to prevent the Teesside public deserting the club in droves.
Why can Gibson not see this?
If he does not act and act soon this club will fall again and he might not be able to stop it this time.
It will be interesting to compare how Moggas season pans out compared to Southgates. And then next season..... (unless we do the right thing and get Mogga in now - but thats only if he would agree to come).
Gibbo must be punching himself in the face for not appointing Mowbray when he had the chance.
I notice a couple of posters have compared GS to Jackie Charlton, saying big Jack would have had the team playing with passion etc etc.
A question then, when Jack Charlton was in charge how many FA cup quarter finals did we play in? Answer - none!
How many League Cup semis? Answer one, one which we bottled.
A poor performance from the players on Sunday is not a sensible reason for sacking the manager, he has to be judged over a period of time not one or two games.
Tomorrow's match is a winnable game,but a point would be a good result.
Nigel
Boro lost under Jack at Brum 1-0 in the sixth round, a match we were favourites to win. Both were in the first division at the time.
Elsewhere AV asks who will go down, my stated view is that I believe it will be Bolton.
Reading was described as a banana skin on the previous thread. We played well at Lpool and shouldnt have lost but threw it away, followed by SheffU where we didnt play well but had enough chances didnt take them but got through, followed by Reading where we played poorly and they scored with a late winner, finished by a dismal performance against Cardiff.
There is a trend there, we have played more poorly in each successive match. The trend needs to be halted before the banana skin becomes a slither down hill.
That is my concern, if the brakes are becoming less efficient on your car you get them checked, you dont shout at your passenger not to be a realist as the other other cars probably have worse brakes than yourself.
A couple of good performances and a point or two before Derby will do the world of good. Continue drifting and we are in real fight, Bolton coming to the Riverside followed by Mackems away with both sniffing safety is not a cheery prospect.
I wont be booing at Villa.
We must halt this slide. I have been looking for a constant or a commonality in the team selections or tactics for the games Ian mentioned, but to be honest there's nothing to really indicate why it has started to go wrong.
It is impossible to know what Southgate's team will be tomorrow, but I would like to beef up that midfield that we surrendered without a whimper on Sunday.
In December the Arsenal and Derby games respectively, our only back to back wins in the PL this season, gave us all a little hope, but it backfired quickly with a loss to West Ham at home and a thumping at Brum.
Oh for us to win those games again, and preferably get a point tomorrow night.
Now the dust is settling after Sundays disaster lets not talk ourselves into relegation.
The fact that there has been so many posts on this site and people have voted us as favourites for relegation shows that people do care passionately and our pride has been badly hurt by such an inept performance and people are understandably lashing out.
But this is a time for Steve Gibson to steady the ship. Express his own dissapointment at the result,which I am sure he was livid about. After all without SG we would,nt have the Riverside nor Premiership football.
If I were he I would make the Derby game "Kids for a Quid" and maybe one more home game before the end of the season. This would show his empathy with the supporters and would be a great goodwill gesture.
Over to you SG !
BoroPhil,
I admire your optimism but when you post 'Some of them we won for god’s sake!!' referring to my list of Boro's dismal performances you must be pointing to Derby and Mansfield away.
Having been to Mansfield and Derby I thought the Boro performances were very poor and that we were lucky to streak a win at Derby. Yes we did win but we did struggle against what should have markedly inferior opposition.
The point I'm making is that the Boro malaise did not start last Sunday. It's been evident throughout this season and before. We can always argue over exactly which games we were rubbish in.
I feel as numb, as stunned & as disheartened by Sunday's result as most of the fans who've already posted on here & I doubt I could say anything that hasn't already been said, but I would draw the attention of those pleading for Gibbo to try to bring in Mogga in place of 'Gate to the following snippet from 'The Times' on 11th February 2008:
"Tony Mowbray extends West Bromwich Albion deal
Tony Mowbray, the West Bromwich Albion manager, has signed a new contract keeping him at the club until June 2011. Mowbray, 44, joined the Coca-Cola Championship side from Hibernian in October 2006 with Mark Venus, the West Bromwich assistant manager, and the duo have become firm fans' favourites. Venus has also committed to the club by signing a new 12-month rolling deal.
"I'm delighted to sign this deal," Mowbray said. "The club has shown faith in what we're trying to achieve by offering us these deals and, with the continued backing of the board, we will strive to continually improve the football club. We've got 15 big league games ahead of us now and it's important everyone connected with the club pulls together to achieve the same goal."
Mowbray and Venus guided West Bromwich to the Championship play-off final last season, and after successfully remodelling the squad in the summer are again challenging for a return to the Premier League. They currently sit in second place and host Sheffield United tomorrow night.
Jeremy Peace, West Brom chairman, said: "We're delighted both Tony and Mark have signed their new contracts. We believe Tony is one of the brightest managerial prospects around and we're really pleased to have secured his services for a further three and a half years.
"Tony is a pleasure to work with and his brand of football has been a joy to watch. He has a great partnership with Mark, who has proved to be a key part of the team. We're all now focusing on trying to achieve our long-term goal of establishing this club in the Premier League." "
* Question: even assuming Gibbo finally came to the conclusion that 'Gate had to go & were keen to try to lure Mogga back to home soil, how much would it cost to buy out such a new contract & would he be prepared to pay it?
AV, kindly run my post again as it got stuck on the end of the previous blog:
I have never felt so bad as a Boro fan as I did on Sunday night. Worse than the times of relegation, of losing semi-finals, of losing cup FINALS.
It is not over dramatic to say that the players brought shame on themselves, on their club and on their own profession for such a woeful, gutless performance.
They should be ashamed and embarrassed for denying themselves and the fans the opportunity to revel in the experience of a lifetime by winning the FA Cup.
And though I strongly feel that the players are the ones to shoulder most of the blame, the manager must surely do so as well (I see that Gate has accepted “total responsibility� in the press). To not change the shape of the team, to not see the trap we had fallen into, in order to stop the rot, was gross negligence of a man in his position.
From an early stage we resorted to long ball tactics – playing typical Championship football if you like, against a Championship team who chose to pass the ball and play football. That is why we lost the game, and the Gate should have stopped that nonsense as soon as it started.
During the weeks prior to Mido and Alves reaching a level of “fitness�, we had become a team whose passing and movement was finally beginning to pay dividends.
The manager’s promise of “freedom� football was on the verge of delivery. We were creating chances as a result of the passing and movement, and yet we still craved a striker to complete the jigsaw, to convert those numerous chances created. Heavens, we were even drawing compliments from BBC and Sky pundits.
The sad irony is that now we have two strikers we have stopped the passing and moving, and for some mysterious reason, we have resorted to lumping the ball in the air to the front two.
It is truly awful football, which could end up in relegation if it is not addressed. Look at the four games against Sheff U (2), Reading, Cardiff, where we adopted this ‘lump it up field’ football.
I seriously cannot recall ONE clear cut chance in open play in all those four games (taking only the 90 minutes in the replay), never mind one goal. Not ONE chance against two Championship teams and a poor team who had lost eight on the belt. I would not have believed that possible.
If someone was to have told me that we would concede only three goals in those four games I would have immediately assumed that we would win all four.
We have got to revert to pushing up the midfield and full backs to support the front two. We were so wooden 4-4-2 where I cannot recall the two central midfielders driving into the box once in open play, where the two wide midfielders stayed out wide most of the game.
I can’t recall too many times when they got into the box during open play either. You could put Torres and Drogba up front in a 4-4-2 system and they would not score if they did not have support.
Alves has no idea what is going on, taking a pummelling from three or four defenders, when the ball is pumped to him in the air. Give him support, movement, inter-passing and I’m sure he will be the player we paid that money for.
Take a look at successful teams, at the way their midfielders approach a game. The likes of Fabregas, Gerrard, Lampard, Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes. They are always venturing into the box. And, it is not only the players at this level of quality, it is the principle of approach rather the quality that is my point.
The name Lee Bowyer comes to mind. He has scored season after season by driving into the box from midfield. Cahill, Bullard, Parker, Jenas to name a few more.
Gate has got to drop Arca and let Roc be the midfielder anchor man. From the remaining midfielders, O’Neil is the one who best suits the ‘new’ role, playing in the middle, driving into the box, getting back to defend as those names above do week in week out.
Downing and Johnson preferably would be the wide men, but when the ball is going down the opposite wing, the other must get in the box to offer more support. We should have at least four players in the box, with movement, and two/three more round the box when we attack.
Come on Gate, give us the “freedom� football that you promised and just about delivered, for a few weeks anyway.
More importantly, give us back our credibility that has been shot to pieces in front of millions of viewers
When I woke up yesterday and this morning, the first thought in my head was that Boro had bottled it. I'm starting to worry that I take all this too seriously!
Cardiff, Barnsley, WBA/Portsmouth. Beat them to win the cup. What an unbelievable chance we've messed up.
This takes me back to 1975 when we needed to beat Birmingham, Fulham and West Ham. But back then it didn't seem quite as bad. The playing field more level.
Teams like West Brom, Sunderland, West Ham, Southampton and Ipswich all won the cup in the space of about 10 years. Nowadays it's big 4, full stop. We will never get another chance like that.
So what went wrong? The players didn't play like that on purpose. Of course they wanted to win. We have better players than Cardiff yet they were far better on the day.
The only explanation that I can think of is that the weight of expectation was too much. After Saturday's results we suddenly realised that the cup was there for the taking. But the seeds of doubt were already in the back of the players minds. What if we mess it up? We started brightly enough, but their goal totally laimed us.
Shouting for Southgate's head after this one result is the wrong way to go about things. You have to see the big picture. Mistakes have been made. Back in August, on this blog, AV pointed out that we needed cover at left back and a creative central midfielder with pace.
Pogatetz is not a left back. Arca and Rocky together in central midfield cannot break down a packed defence. This needs to be rectified in the summer.
But there are positives. We are a young side with potential for improvement. The right side looks good with ONeill and Young. We have 3 good central defenders. Up front we now have competition for places. Downing has signed a new contract. We are not that far away from having a decent squad.
I still haven't given up the dream of one day winning that cup. Even if it looks like we'll have to do a Barnsley and knock out Liverpool and Chelsea on the way.
UP THE BORO!
You know what it’s like. You’re talking with a mate on the phone and he asks you, “What went wrong?� So you start to think and talk at the same time. And things come into your head as you go along and suddenly it all comes clear and things that you saw (and felt) all take on new significance. And realisation dawns!
So it was on Sunday night, after the match. I suddenly realised something. It’s something that I’ve felt for a while, but there are some connections that seem particularly relevant at the present time:
When I was making my way to the Millennium Stadium in 2004, as I stopped off at a service station, there were both Bolton and Boro supporters milling around in approximately equal numbers. The thing that struck me was that the Boro supporters seemed far more upbeat and positive than the Bolton lot.
It was the same when I got to Cardiff, on the way to the Stadium. There was an electric buzz of expectancy – almost certainty – about the Boro support that weekend. We were going to win it!
Despite being 2-0 down from the first leg against Basle, I felt there was an air of “we CAN do it!� around the Stadium, ahead of the match. Even when Basle took it to 3-0 on the night, there was a defiant buzz around the place that seemed to be saying, “we CAN do it!�.
At the same time, you felt that Basle thought a 3-0 lead, with an away goal, was unassailable. Their minds turned from “we’ve got to work hard here to make sure� to something more akin to “all we need to do is defend for the next hour and it’s ours!�
Ditto that for the Steaua Bucharest semi-final; only Steaua had 2 away goals to their credit by the time they were 3 up in the tie. However, despite the seemingly impossible gap, there was still a buzz around the Riverside. On and off the pitch!
On each occasion, heads did NOT go down. Chins went up! Chests went out, Sleeves got rolled up and the guys out on that pitch each occasion, took the opposition apart, cheered on by fans who believed it was possible – just as they did at the Millennium Stadium. It was our day, and we knew it (or at least we thought and behaved like we did!)
By contrast, as I walked into the Riverside Stadium on Sunday, there was an air of reservation. There was a serious, heavy air of almost worried apprehension. It was tangible. There was no expectant positive buzz. The concourse was I thought, subdued.
Why? Here we were, Boro, a mid-table Premier League outfit, at home to a mid-table Championship outfit. On paper, the best prospect in history of at least a trip to a semi- final. So, why the heavy atmosphere? Why was the place not absolutely rocking even before the match got going?
Was it the hesitant way we disposed of Sheffield United?
Was it that astonishingly bad result at home against Reading a week before that lingered in the mind?
Was it the heightened awareness that so-called “inferior� opposition had eliminated all but Portsmouth and ourselves from the competition and that Chelsea and Manchester United, who were odds-on to win their respective ties had been ignominiously dumped out the previous day?
Was it a subconscious awareness that our progress to the quarter final stage had been unconvincingly laboured and ultimately at the expense of some of those tough “inferior� minor opponents?
Was it the realisation that the stadium was sold-out for the first match in a long time and that in itself was a voodoo sign almost defying Boro to turn up and do the business?
The returning, or new supporters, who turned out in bigger numbers than usual, did so because they hoped that despite it being Boro, that their Goliath would give little Cardiff’s (St) David a thorough pounding.
Yet it seemed to me that the numbers were there more in hope than in expectation. If my reading of the concourse atmosphere is right, that’s exactly what the mood was.
Several people had commented to me during the preceding week that Cardiff was a banana skin waiting for Boro to slip upon. Several conversations I heard at the stadium were along the same lines.
BBC TV’s airtime pursuit of Boro in the cup and Gareth Southgate’s acknowledgement to an interviewer that the BBC were only giving us as much of it because they (the BBC) were looking for a live giant killing all adds to the weight of uncertainty surrounding Boro.
Was it, amongst the supporters, that we had this collective premonition, this collective doubt that this was after all, Boro. And wouldn’t it be just like “Typical Boro� to snatch defeat from the jaws of Sporting Glory?
I think it was all of these things. The truth is we didn’t believe enough that we were going to win it!
If I and thousands of others could think about all of those things, then so could the players. And I’m sure they did!
Despite the superficial public acknowledgement of respect for the opposition, irrespective of their relatively lowly league position, the pre-match preparation was NOT good enough. Consequently, Boro didn’t turn up with the right mindset, prepared to win!
They were apprehensive and hesitant. They were not confident. They had not psyched themselves up to hating Cardiff City with a vengeance and had not built that mental determination that meant that they would run through brick walls, concentrate until it hurt, scrap for every loose ball and run their guts out to make sure that the result was the one we wanted! THEY didn’t want it enough!
In sport, that’s a losing mentality!
Competitive sport, indeed, everything that requires people to challenge themselves to perform, requires careful mental preparation, as much as a physical one. If Boro did it at all ahead of the Cardiff match, they got it entirely and completely wrong.
Some laughed and scoffed at McClaren’s use of Bill Beswick. But a professional approach to psychologically preparing the squad properly for the Cardiff encounter would have, for each of them, acknowledged the dangers of complacency, countering the doubts thrown into the melting pot after the Chelsea and Manchester United exits, firing the enthusiasm for playing in front of a full house and calling on those who you’d expect to be leaders on the field to be prepared to stand up and be counted.
How priceless would that influence have been?
FAO:- STEVE GIBSON
* SACK GARETH SOUTHGATE NOW *
* FRESHEN UP THE BACKROOM TEAM WITH NEW FACES WHO BRING NEW IDEAS *
HE'S A TRUE GENT AND A VERY NICE CHAP, BUT WE ALL KNEW HE WAS APPOINTED TOO SOON AND THAT HE'S NOT READY FOR THIS JOB.
NOW YOU HAVE THE PROOF. OUT OF THE CUP WITH AN ABSOLUTELY GUTLESS, HEARTLESS AND PITYFUL PERFORMANCE AND FIGHTING A RELEGATION BATTLE.
YOU MADE A MISTAKE - FINE. WE ALL DO. NOW FIX IT.
TB
Is there any reason in particular why Tony Mowbray is percieved to be a better option than Gareth Southgate considering he has zero premiership experience?
I wrote a few lines yesterday suggesting Mowbray should replace GS. Yes he has no English Premiership experience but he has done excellently at both Hibs and now West Brom. I also feel strongly he would reignite some much needed passion and desire back into the club.
That said I hadnt realised he had jsut signed a new contract and I'm quite sure its wishful thinking on my behalf.
Paul (an exiled Boro fan in the Midlands)
Just when I was getting me sanity back and that great black hole in me head where the FA Cup semi-final should have been was hurting a little less.
Just when I was feeling marginally better after some spirited posts on here about fans needing to get behind the team now in our hour of need.
And just when I had had my spirits lifted by Richard's quite brilliant post on psychology, TB hurtles back on to the scene and slugs me very hard across the bonce with yet another venomous anti-Gibson rant.
So thanks, Tony Black, for nearly putting me back in the slough of despond. I might have been a recovering alcoholic, and your vitriol could have sent me back to the Priory.
But this time your raving obsession has so angered me that I've had enough. On Sunday I booed Boro for the first time in my life, but now I know that I have to stand up and fight, I have to get back to the ground and support the lads and I have to shout and sing like I usually do.
And you, Tony Black, are the cause of that. I'd always respected your opinions, even though I haven't agreed with many.
I thought you'd turned a corner - you went to 2 games and sang and shouted- but I now understand at last that your posts are just poison and that you clearly sprang from the Ayresome chicken run some time in the neolithic past.
You're just like the bloke 4 seats from me who always criticises Southgate whatever he does. So, you've made me better, despite everything; you've made me put the Cardiff defeat behind me and get back to supporting the team I love.
But you've also made me very angry. So in future, please shut up.
Yes boro phil he has the experience and qualifications unlike southgate.He has also worked at several clubs and knows the game....
BoroPhil:
Presumably it's because Mowbray was deemed to have done a good job at Hibernian, followed by a good job at West Brom.
Additionally, our locals will nostalgically relate to his long playing history with Boro.
But, beyond that, I'm scratching my head as well!
He's cut his teeth in lower league positions, but, as many people point out, including no doubt, some of those who would call for Mowbray's replacement of Southgate, being able to cut it in lower leagues doesn't necessarily qualify you for Premier League stardom - either as a player, or as a manager!
I wouldn't want Boro to go down the same road as Newcastle, changing managers as often as they have done. It simply doesn't work. It injects discontinuity on top of whatever other issues there are to be dealt with.
Alex Ferguson's first couple of seasons at Manchester United weren't exactly full of success. But ask any (or most) Man United fans if they would have, in retrospect, wished for any other manager and my guess is that they'd reply with a resounding "No!"
And who could blame them.
But they, nor their board could see the future. But they backed their judgement and gave him time to settle and build a system and what has become a dynasty, bringing a succession of generations of squads together that have dominated the Premier League.
Gareth Southgate has demonstrated many of the characteristics that it's going to take to succeed personally in management.
He's brave. He's honourable. He's objective. He's articulate. He's passionate about the club. He's principled and appears to act in accordance with those principles and doesn't take an expedient route because it's easier. He doesn't shy away from tough decisions. He's business-aware. He's straightforward and up front in his dealings with his players.
I've not heard a word of complaint from any player (even George Boateng) about his treatment by Gareth, despite some decisions by the latter which may not have been in to their personal liking.
If there's a weakness in Gareth Southgates managerial capabilities, and if he is made aware of it, I'm absolutely sure that he'll take steps to remedy it. If it's something that requires reinforcement by others to protect the short term prospects of the club, then Gareth Southgate's ego will not stand in the way of him doing the correct thing.
And at this moment in time, despite the gut-churning disappointment of Sunday's elimination from the FA Cup, it's NOT the time for him to be either falling on his sword or being dismissed.
That would be utterly disruptive and a sure-fire route to Championship status next season.
Boro's ills - a mixture of short term ones and longer-term intrinsic club characteristics, will not and cannot be "solved" by a mid-campaign, knee-jerk managerial change.
Life's not that simple! And too many decent managers are prematurely sacrificed by their boards as an excuse, or as a superficial attempt to demonstrate that they (the board) are in control. But all too often, it's a cosmetic publicity stunt, rather than a genuine attempt to deal with the harder realities of what's not right with their respective clubs.
Boro may not be the most attractive managerial position for some ambitious aspiring managers, but one thing that they will have, is they'll be a Steve Gibson appointee and as such, will be given every reasonable chance to succeed.
And long may that be so.
Richard all valid points....or was it the fact a large number of them were in Yarm till the early hours celebrating the big guns going out?
Re: Richard's observations.
However badly the players performed the truth is they desperately wanted to win - they are professionals, playing at Wembley is a dream that most players never achieve... if we're going to be objective let's begin by accepting that reality
I agree with Richard's underlying arguement that we were not psychologically prepared - this is where the battle was won and lost
Cardiff, could adopt the 'nothing to lose, everything to win' mentality: it releases the players from the pressure of expectation, frees them from inhibition - we all saw the way that Cardiff went about their work - focused on giving it their best shot, committing everything as a team, secure in the knowledge that there was glory even in defeat.
The early goal merely served to give them added belief that here was something to fight for. The second permitted them more composure and the space to breathe
Conversely, we were drawn at home, the opposition were (are) inferior, and the best of the rest had already been eliminated. The expectation had risen over the weekend from not only just getting to Wembley twice, but also to winning the FA Cup for the first time in our history and also to once again being in Europe.
Big prizes, high expectations, huge pressure. Instead of 'all that we have to win' the focus becomes 'all that we have to lose'.
We all know that negativity drains the power from players. The legs just don't move with the same fluidity, trapping a ball becomes a monumental task, choosing the right option becomes fraught with uncertainty. Every player feels weighed down by his own responsibilities and the team pattern begins to disintegrate...
As Richard identifies, the same paralyses can afflict the crowd - we can't get ourselves 'up', we become incapable of lifting ourselves let alone lifting the team. We are weighed down by the trauma of missing this 'once in a lifetime, never to be repeated' opportunity
To use a simple analogy - none of us would have problems walking a distance on a pavement four feet wide, but put that pavement 1,000 feet up with no safety net underneath and all of a sudden it becomes a monumental challenge - many of us would even have problems standing up
Of course, it doesn't have to be like this. There are excellent sports psychologists and lots of top teams use them. Failure to prepare mentally - to recognise the subtle shifts in psyche and to counter the negative paralyses - was the root cause of the tragedy that unfolded on Sunday.
We have to move on, but importantly, we have to make sure that this particular mistake is never repeated
BoroPhil - the only reason in my eyes is that Mowbray has served his apprenticeship, albeit in Scotland and the Coca Cola.
We witnessed on Sunday how Dave Jones (who I believe has had PL experinece but short lived) outwitted the hapless Southgate and his team and tactically as well as on the park Cardiff blew us away.
I would also not bet against Alecx McLeish saving Brunm from the drop either, another experioenced manager with no PL experinece till now.
The message is that Southgate was very fortunate to be given the job in a PL club, sadly as many have foretold, he looks more and more to be out of his depth.
Can't you guys see the improvement in the team this year? A few good signings in the summer and we will be a very good side next season. And can you really see Gibbo sacking GS? there aint a chance.
The paralysis that infected the team did not suddenly occur when the players realised that Chelsea and Manu were out of the cup, when they saw the full crowd, when they realised they were playing in front millions on TV.
It was merely the next part of the trend I posted about earlier.
We need to move on quickly, stop bemoaning we have missed the chance to face Barnsley at Wembley in April, we must focus on missing the chance to face Barnsley at Oakwell in August.
That means getting something out of our matches before Derby, getting some pride back, restoring confidence. A couple of limp performances based on the fact it will be 'alright' against Derby is as dangerous as it was against Reading. Or will be against Bolton and the Mackems for that matter.
Tonight my lad and I will be eating Balti pies in the Doug Ellis stand, get stuck lads, get us some of my unexpected points.
As for Mogga, stay where you are and dont tarnish the memories we have.
Clive, I feel like that as well mate.
On Sunday evening I did 6 rounds sparring to get the aggression and anger out such was the angst. Hearing all this 'sack Gates, he's pants' stuff is starting to grind.
Sure Neil, maybe he was outwitted by Dave Jones, just like he outwitted Arsene Wenger in December. Did you want him sacked then?
Richard, as usual makes many good points. Gate has so many qualities needed to be a top manager and I for one believe he will develop further within a reasonable time.
Oh sure, like the rest of us amateurs, I find some of his decisions bamboozling and think I have the answers. The fact that none of us are full time managers probably proves we are all well meaning no- nowts, with an opinion, which is fine.
One last point; Mogga will NOT manage the Boro. He will not jeopardise the affection the fans have for him the way that Glen Hoddle did by returning and ultimately failing at Spurs. Boro is his team, he knows the fans love him and for this reason he will never spoil that relationship.
Anyway, rant over; I bloody well hurt like we all do and tonight I'll probably hurt even more after watching us at Villa.
Vic, circle the wagons mate, things could be taking a turn for the worse.......
"Can't you guys see the improvement in the team this year?"
I see an inept team that is just above the relegation trapdoor and a team that has struggled in games against Sheffield United, Cardiff, Reading.
I see a team who does not have a regular goalscorer and a team whose midfield scores nowhere near enough goals to be even a midtable team.
Where is this improvement you speak of???
Boro Phil
Martin O niel went from a lower division, then scotland, then premiership, very few managers go straight into the premiership. Mr Southgate was very lucky indeed, and by the way did he get his badge yet (that went very quite)
Ian Gill:
Ian,
I agree with you that since Liverpool, performances have slumped.
(I wonder at the same time how much Jeremy Aliadiere's enforced absence has had since then and how much the team's balance/style of play has been disrupted? In which case, I wonder how robust our strategy is for the longer term!!?)
You mentioned earlier,
".........There is a trend there, we have played more poorly in each successive match. The trend needs to be halted before the banana skin becomes a slither down hill. "
Your description of their state on Sunday as "paralysis" was spot on (wish I'd thought of it!) and is, I think, much in keeping with them being overawed on the day.
It was by far the worst performance since Liverpool and as such was further down the slippery slope you oulined.
I agree with your observation and I didn't wish to imply that all of the bad stuff that we saw on Sunday was "sudden".
All the more reason I'd have thought, if someone was sufficiently aware of the slide, to reflect on the psychological preparation to counter it and to halt the slide in it's tracks.
From the public declarations by Gareth Southgate and Luke Young yesterday, it would appear that they are now addressing it behind the scenes and we can only hope that each of them takes away a personal commitment and assumes personal responsibility to sort themselves out both psychologically, physically and tactically to effect the reversal you rightly indicate is necessary.
Unlike you, I won't be at Villa Park tonight, but I'll be VERY interested to hear your observations tomorrow, or whenever you next post, on your impressions of their attitude and approach tonight.
I hope you and Mr Gill Junior will have a great night and have reason to come away feeling that some pride had been restored!
Moan moan moan- the season is not over yet!!!!
I will be back to watch the Boro as much as I can and chant and yell my heart out , I cant help it I AM A BORO FAN.
Get behind the team and get off their backs as it will give the lads the freedom to play.
Two things Southgate will always be remembered for:
1/ His weakly struck sudden-death penalty in the shootout in the England-Germany semi-final at Euro 96. Destroying the dreams of a nation.
2/ His team that produced the worst display of football ineptitude by a Premiership club ever. In the the game that offered Boro the once in a lifetime realistic possibility of going on to win the FA cup. Destroying the dreams of a small town.
Nice guys win nothing.
Chris:
I wouldn't know about that mate!
I was posting on here!.........sad g*t that I am! I was too excited about the Cardiff match to be in bed early!
(For sorry evidence, see AV Blog, “Sporting Glory – The Ultimate Prize�
[Posted by: Richard | March 9, 2008 12:59 AM])
So, maybe you're right, in a sense! Maybe they were too excited to sleep, as well! Even if they, as responsible professionals, hadn't hit the bright lights of Yarm the night before such a defining and important match!
PS: D'you reckon AV's doing the spare room this week? Or maybe he's still in shock!
**AV writes: Ha, ha! Good guess. We've knocked through into the back of the garage to do a utility room. I've spent most of the week covered in paint (surrender white). It's nearly finished now. You really don't need to know the sad minutae of my mundane life.
I am looking forward to the match tonight especially since it is the last of the 4 mach ban for Aladdin .
Richard and Nigel [mumbai] are spot on with their analysis of the weighted minds of the lads on Sunday. Hopefully it wont happen again and the troops will be focused, together and free.
I AM SPARTACUS.
Boro under Gibson :-
Robbo = no experience as a manager
MClaren = no experience as a manager
Southgate = no experience as a manager
All given the Managers job ? Now I'm not saying that Gibbo has got it wrong as we have had some fantastic times over the last 12 years but imagine what a 'real' 'experienced manager' could do with the Boro ??
Sunday showed that cutting your teeth with the Boro leaves you wide open when you send out a team with no passion. That game looked like an end of season nothing match, not a quater final in the FA cup.
The Boro never fail to let us down !
UTB
The pain of what might have been will take a long time to go but allI want to hear in each and every match report for the rest of the season is that whatever the result the players effort and application could not be questioned. This is the only way to restore faith.
Unfortunately football is an industry where opinion blows with the wind. Two weeks ago everybody was applauding an unbeaten run and then a very good performance in defeat at Liverpool except for two individual errors.
Two weeks later it's Southgate out again.
I cant really accept the sentimental claptrap about Mowbray. A great player for the club and has had reasonable success in two inferior leagues as a manager.
If he had not played for the club he would be no more thought of as a prospective manager than Dave Jones Simon Davey[Barnsley] or Boothroyd at Watford
CLIVE HURREN.... I have just two points to make.
Your comments are so out of order.
1. My remarks regarding Gibson have always been regarding his input, drive and ambition post Eindhoven.
I have always started my questioning of him during this period by saying what an amazing job he had done for the club, the town and the surrounding area.
I couldn't have spoke any more highly of him and what he's done, so for the sake of clarity and fairness you should re read what I've said.
My only sin was in questioning if it was time he should go, that's all, and I really don't see anything wrong in that. This is a forum of debate and to debate you have to raise issues.
2. This is actually YOUR fault and that of Mr bloody Vickers - LOL!
From day one I said GS and CC were the wrong choice, not because they are bad people, or that I don't like them because I do, and here too I have done nothing but praise them for the men they are and the oustanding job they did for us as players. These two men are shining examples of what the word " professional " should mean. But for me it ends there.
They were the wrong choice simply because they had no experience and would be learning as they go. That's all. I thought that we could do better, a lot better. From day one of the season I said see what Villa and City do.
Over the past few weeks I've been reading AV's column saying how we turned the corner, how good a job GS is doing, how well the club are doing PR wise and so on and so on. I read this " Amore " style writing of his and was sucked in by the romanticism of it all.
In that time I was repeatedly asked to come back to the good ship Boro and come and see all the Brazilian style attacking football and to support the lads.
So in a moment of madness I did and what did I see ?
NOTHING. What a bloody waste of money as per usual and as I've said many, many times before I just ain't paying to see players playing with no heart, no guts and more than anything else, with absolutely no pride in the shirt, because this is how it is here.
To top it all I saw an FA Cup game that made me sick to my stomach.
So mate, no offence, you can stick your words and your rose tinted glasses where the sun don't shine, because people like you are just so unwilling to see the reality of just how bad we are.
Look at the league and tell me I'm wrong.
I simply will not be going back to watch these people until GS and CC are gone and someone comes in and restores the pride, the passion and the respect for the fact that I've paid what little cash I have to come and support these players. I just can't and won't because it's soul destroying.
People always bang on about what a let down Maccarone was, and I absolutely agree that he was and that he never fulfilled the potential and promise.
I've always been on the side of those who thought that this was because he an McClaren just hated each other. But at the very least he actually gave a crap and it showed.
This is ALL I ask for. Win, lose or draw I just want to see people who care and give 110%.
Is that really just too much to ask ?
This is why I'm a big, big fan of Wheater, Cattermole and the like. These people always play with the heart and the hunger no matter what. For these people it isn't about the money it's just all about football.
And then to top it all I have to hear bloody GS tell us that the FA Cup " was too big a game ".
What ?
Come on mate, too big game ! Do me a favour.
TB
Excellent post from Richard. He is right about the expectancy levels. I expected us to get beat.
Don't know why, maybe the poor peformance against Reading, maybe because Boro always have to do things the hard way and having the cup virtually handed to us was a sure fire signal that Boro would slip on that big banana skin.
I remember the Carling Cup, Boro fans believed, we all knew it was going to be our day. Against FC Basle fans and players never once stopped believing.
Against Steau Bucherest the same thing happened even though logic would dictate that lightning couldn't possibly strike twice.
In the words of Ali Brownlee there was hope.
I contrasted the spirit of the players on Sunday to that of the UEFA and Carling Cup games and there was no comparison. No glimmer of the spirit and belief that helped us defy logic and make our way to our first ever UEFA cup final.
I also contrasted the fans, the fans lost belief after the first goal. It would appear that our hope and belief was paralysed too. Where were the chants of 'three more, we only need three more'. Where was the belief from the fans too as well as the players.
Have we gone back to pre Carling Cup mentalilty of always expecting to be second best. Have we realised that the 'glory' days are no more. Has our mindset changed?
To get through the remainder of the season we need the spirit of Steaua from the players and I know it's a big ask following Sundays performance but we need it from the fans too.
COME ON BORO - THERE IS HOPE!
Just as you start feeling a bit better a couple of Derby fans told me how crap we were.
Had a laugh and a joke and we started talking about problems at both clubs. Richard's point about Aliadiere was valid but what an indictment - we are toothless without a striker who cant score.
I ventured the view that it was just as well none of the cupties had gone to penalties because the other team could have declared if they got three, put us back in and still won by an innings and two penalties.
I see Gibbo had a post match meeting with Gate, no doubt discussing gardening tips. Gate and Young have talked the talk, we even had Young on a video interview free!!! Didnt even have to subscribe to BoroWorld. Tonight is the chance to do some walking to set alongside the talking.
One thing I will say is I dont believe the players dont care. I dont think they care like they did when I first supported the Boro and McMordie lived round the back, Downing across the road and Whigham gave us the occasional lift to the match (they lived amongst the supporters and had to look us in the eye), but they will have pride. Lets see some.
AV:
Maybe you should have stayed at home watching your paint drying than subjecting yourself to the trauma of the QF match. It would have been more entertaining!!
But, as evidenced by many posts on here (mine included!).......hindsight's a wonderful thing!
Hi Anthony.
I know why we were crap on Sunday - we were saving ourselves for the final.
No,when our early slow probing came to nothing the crowds frustration made the team jittery. If we'd tore into them from the first whistle we would have scared THEM to death.
And why, when we needed three goals,was our 12m Brazillian super goal machine taken off? When we played Staua we threw FOUR attackers on.
Never mind, get your money on 'typical Boro' to get a result at Villa tonite!
TB is a bit like the Boro. They gradually improve as the games go by, learning to apply a bit of skill, keep the ball on the floor, take off their blinkers, but then it goes wrong. Straight away they lose heart, all finesse gone, playing the long ball with CAPS LOCK on.
Still, it's up to GS to get us all in the right frame of mind! I still think he's smart enough to learn from his mistakes and, yes, he's made quite a few but, no, we shouldn't really be surprised given he's still new to the job.
Dek: the reason Alves was taken off for me was that he looked more like he was taking a Sunday stroll around Ropner Park than in a fight for an FA Cup semi-final place. Not that that was much different to the other 10 Boro players, but he stood out as the least effective.
Let's hope he gets his head up for tonight's game.
AV
How does one shout C’mon the lads in Welsh?
What is going on? Have i missed something here? Why are 99% of people on here calling for the manager to go? Why is everything all bad and doom and gloom?
We lost against Cardiff. So what? Who cares? It was an opportunity to get to Wembley - but so what? We've been before.
We are 12th in the premier league and from where im sat thats nowhere near the relegation zone.
Let me ask every one of you on here would you rather be in Boros position or Newcastles right now?
You people want to get a grip and its exactly why mfc will allways be a small town club because of idiots expecting miracles and being carried away with hype and expectation.
I bet most on here only went to the Cardiff game to collect stubs if they got to Wembley so could call them selves die hard fans.
It makes me sick and I feel ashamed to be a Boro fan when fellow fans who say they love the club slate it at every opportunity and spit on the very crest that has built a premiership football club.
your all total idiots who have no idea of football.
COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Never in the history of human conflict,have so few owed so much to so many"
David Morrison
I didnt go to the Cardiff match, I am off to Villa, what does that make me? Polite answers only.
Twelve days ago we were 7 points clear of the bottom three and about to play that club. They have won two in a row and are one point behind us.
The third bottom club is now Bolton who are four points behind us. I think they will go down but let us see what the next twelve days bring us. Personally, I think four points is quite close to the relegation zone, it is certainly closer than where I want to be.
We are 12th because we are top of a mini league all of its own. I will settle for 12th in May.
Re the Cardiff Result (why no comments section on your article?)
Lack of experience, character, leadership. Boro were dithering before Cardiff got near the penalty area and it looked certain that they would gift them a goal, which they did. Boro lack alternatives so this lack of initiative with Schwartzer and Rochembach is unbelievable, but not for the Boro. And players remember what happened to Juninho.
They froze with the eyes of the world on the new FA Cup favourites, just as Leeds did in their Final against Sunderland - Clough saw it when Leeds players were getting off the coach.
We needed a Hasselbank, possibly a Woodgate. But this was still a stronger team than that which easily disposed of Sheffield United, and narrowly lost (gifted) to Reading, so they could have handled Cardiff.
But there has been no secret that the League is the priority, and that situation is probably tormenting the squad as well. All in all, a recipe for disaster, but it's gone, forget it, win four games or so out of ten, pick up and start over.
The chance CAN come again, the odds might not be as good, but for goodness sake be positive, even Alan Hansen said after the Liverpool game what a good side they are (and as good as Everton, except for scoring goals), AND we beat Arsenal at their own game.
Public humiliation, a real wake up call; time will tell if it's for the best. But it's not life or death.
This David Morrison gadge is starting to annoy me!
"We lost against Cardiff. So what? Who cares? It was an opportunity to get to Wembley - but so what? We've been before."
Not this Wembley we haven't and loads of people care you half witted numpty!.
"your all total idiots who have no idea of football."
You are the biggest clown on here mate as this post of yours proves.
David Morrison wrote...
"The table dosn't lie and no matter how much a select few look on the down side we are in a very very good position, 3 points behind Spurs in 11 4 above Reading in 18th and on top of the Mags and Maccems plus the FA Cup qtr final against a poor cardiff side. what could be worse?
Ive looked at the table and from every angle it looks impossible that we could go down, we would need to lose every game and for the teams below us to win virtually every one of theirs. Derby and Fulham have gone so it leaves one place to fight for...
it could be worse we could support the barcodes"
I suggest you get back to the idiot board where your idiotic, fickle deluded mates hang out!
Tony Black - you're entitled to your opinions, mate, and what you say has many truths in it.
True - we have played crap football for a while now (despite me urging you to go and see the new multi-skilled silky Boro) and true, we don't score goals.
True also that some of the coaching beggars belief -when will someone tell Schwarz to stop booting the ball long every time?? And true, of course, that we were absolutely rubbish against Cardiff.
But my point is that your posts almost always come over as very negative and knocking, when there is much to be admired in a club with limited finances that's maintained a Prem position against the odds and had lots of cup runs.
Sure, we were spoiled by the Carling and UEFA Cups, and of course we want those days back again, but we won't get them by constantly sniping at the team and the manager. We have to get behind them.
Anyway, glad I wound you up! No offence.
Well, we're 1-0 up, playing excellent football, wanting the ball, closing down well, playing it on the ground, and all against a good Aston Villa side. OK, they look a little rusty in defence, but that could just be Downing and Tuncay's movement that's scaring them.
Even if we go on to lose this game, the way we've played the first half is proof that the moaners and chicken runners are quite wrong. We can play good football, and we're doing it right now!
Interesting to see the Boateng & Shawky partnership working in midfield - thought that would be too negative when I saw the line up.
Well, that was disappointing, but only because we deserved all 3 points. Mido had done good work in defence, clearing off the line at one point, but missed two good chances - the second being easier to score than poke over the bar as he did.
Then the ref, who'd had a good game until then, started giving everything Villa's way, culminating in a penalty that should never have been.
My understanding of the hand ball rule is that there has to be intent for it to be given. How, then, can it be a penalty when Luke Young is sliding along the ground, facing the opposite direction, and the ball hits him in the back before clipping his elbow?!? Steve Bennet needs to go back to school. Awful.
With 10 minutes to go, Mido was binned for Catts and we'd settled for a draw. Probably the right decision, but a shame given how well we'd played. Tuncay was all energy and class throughout - his socks were well and truly run off.
1 point closer to safety!
Boro Phil
No Roch, No Arca (what a better display from Midfield. No Alves (what better movement up front) I rest my case.
We deserved to win last night. but why oh why could we not perform like this on Sunday, well thats football.
WELL DONE THE BORO. I would still prefer a proper full back rather than persist with Pogo, but it is the managers decision at the end of the day.
DAVE CONNOR
Last night hardly means that Rocky, Arca and Alves are now surplus to requirements. It just proves what a decent squad we have when fringe players like Shawky and Boateng can come in and do so well.
Rocky has been excellent this season, and probably needs a rest. Arca has admitted his form has dipped and could also do with a break. Alves is for next season as we all know.
Brilliant response from the lads last night, Gareth said they’d make their response to Sunday on the pitch and they did. After all the barrackings they’ve received about Sunday, only right that they should get full credit today.
________________________________________
Hi AV
jc- yes Alves was poor but he didn't get any service, we had no midfield. Prancer and Dancer (tippy tappy twins)were simply too weak and ineffective.
Ian Gill - Chuckle brothers 'to you,to me'
I would add 'to you, to me, to them!
Nice to see Shawky given a chance,otherwise we need a strong, fast,direct midfielder like Jason Koumas
To my friend Boro Phil.
I think that you must have a sense of humour. Whoever said they were surplus to requirements, if anything it is them that should be fringe players.
As for ROCH being excellant this season, you must be very easy pleased. I have watched parctically every game this season, and if he has been excellant then you must have been watching different games to me.
Better yes in some games but overall very poor in my estimation, that stretches of waching and playing football for over 50 years.
I watched the Villa game on the telly and the ref was a joke. the penalty was a disgrace, but Ashley Young committed 8 fouls and not a booking. And if that was a penalty why did he not give another one later when he pointed to the top of his arm and gave a corner? He was very poor overall and looked very much an "homer".
And poor Schwatzer - what was he doing with those crosses?Two disatrous mistakes could have cost goals. overall a much better display.
REACTION FALLOUT FROM SUNDAY (GENERAL KNEE-JERK OPINIONS)
Note To Middlesbrough Football Club:
• First and foremost, drop ticket prices to fill the stadium: £15 for FA Cup match -> attendance 32,926. £24 for Premiership match -> attendance 23,273. Not rocket science is it? Remember it’s cheaper to watch the match in the pub and get the kids a meal while the match is on! Advertising Setanta Sports on the Boro website isn’t actually helping either is it? Talk about hypocritical!
• Stop giving the fans grief over their support: Without us expressing our sentiments with the team, be it bad or good, we aren’t technically supporters are we? If the performance is poor, we’ll boo and hiss. When it’s entertaining (and that’s what we’ve paid our money for!), we’ll cheer and sing.
If you want the twelfth man effect, show some effort! Talk about being tired after 2 matches a week? My heart bleeds for them! It will take more than Dave ‘I know you love the Boro!’ Wheater and signing £12 million Afonso ‘I haven’t played for a month!’ Alves to get fans back on your side!
• Don't expect the fans to pity you or the players: Middlesbrough isn’t an affluent area and is well known through the well-known, small-minded London based media that there is a poor employment figure here. To us, a car costs £15,000 tops, our salary’s average £20,000 per year if we’re lucky, we all have homes in or around the vicinity of Middlesbrough and a holiday to us is 2 weeks self-catering in Benidorm.
Accept the fact that to many people, the cost of a season ticket for example, means the difference and difficult decision between a summer holiday and being at the Boro for every home match. Okay, we don’t need anybody to think for us and it is our decision, but when the summer holiday idea gets ditched and we’re saving all year for a Boro season ticket, doesn’t that deem support for your home team? It’s money to you after all!
• Ask the fans what they want, not assume it! Okay okay, you asked us what Boro home strip design we want this season after you scored a spectacular own goal by getting rid of the instantly recognisable white chest band off the Boro shirts. And yes yes, I know you gave us a chance to pick our own Boro away strips on occasions,
One thing that you will never get rid of is smokers in the toilets at the stadium. Give the stewards their due, they do try and get rid of them! But I was there the day the woman with the questionnaire was ‘doing the rounds’ getting biased views on the proposed and current ban on smoking inside the stadium, but amazingly while avoiding smokers!
It’s true! Many didn’t mind the smoking! Even ideas to accommodate the smokers were ignored. I appreciate the hazards associated with fire but sure the ’99 ice cream lagers and beers they serve at the bars and the spillages onto the floor would combat any ignition hazard?
Compo.