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Boro in '180 Minutes From Wembley' Shock!

Posted by on February 17, 2008 10:45 PM | 

FORGET my earlier wild speculation based on random bits of paper pulled out of an Ayresome Park mug by primary school children.... it's a Riverside reunion with cardiff and with Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, possibly the only man in football who could realistically wear Mido's shorts without them flapping like a tea clipper in full sail.

Yes it would have been nice to draw Bristol Rovers or Barnsley - realistically they have shot their bolt - but come on, Boro playing a mid-table Championship outfit at home for a place in Wembley. What more can you ask for? If Boro hold their nerves and play to their potential now we can realistically think about Wembley. I know you shouldn't because it may put the mockers on and the Blades could yet spoil it but go on, dare to dream.

Here's the wild speculative bit I rattled off yesterday. It's exactly the kind of perceptive, scientific and uncannily accurate stuff I get paid for ...


BORO will travel to Barnsley in the quarter-finals of the FA Cup. Exclusive. If we see off Sheffield United in the replay Boro face a fourth successive away day with a semi-final trip to Wembley beckoning. No, not just wishful thinking. That was the generous way the folded bits of paper came out in a tense mock draw staged at the plush Vickers Towers headquarters of the Acklam FA. It is as scientific as you can get. Picture the scene:

"Elizabeth, you will draw the home teams. William, you will draw the away teams. William, can you have a little feel of the balls and assure the viewers at home that they are of equal weight and size and that none of them are either excessively warm or cold or have any magnetic or other qualities making them easy to distinguish? Then we'll begin...


"These are the numbers you will need to keep an eye out in this exciting draw for the last eight:

1 Bristol Rovers
2 Cardiff City
3 Sheffield United or Middlesbrough
4 Barnsley
5 Manchester United
6 Portsmouth
7 West Bromwich Albion
8 Chelsea

"With just two of the big guns in there, two Premier League also rans and four obscure teams from the depths who could cause the TV bean-counters to have a coronary, anything could happen. Anyone who avoids Manchester United and Chelsea will fancy their chances of at least one trip to Wembley...... Elizabeth...

"Number 5 ... Manchester United ..... (no, no, no, please no) ... will play.... number 1.... Bristol Rovers (well, they are out but it's a big pay day for them and that is one hot spot avoided.)

"Number 2 .... Cardiff City.... (don't fancy that, long trip and retro hoolie fans plus JFH with a point to prove) ... will play.... number 6.... Portsmouth.

"Number 2.... Barnsley .... (come on, come on, come on)... will play.... (come on) .... number 3 (YESSS!) Sheffield United or Middlesbrough (get in, Wembley here we come!)

"And finally... (who cares) number 7... West Brom... will play ... number 8, Chelsea (Come on Mogga). And that concludes the draw for the sixth round of the FA Cup. Thankyou children."

**Please note, this mock draw is not a contract and neither this blog nor the Evening Gazette will accept any responsibility for transport arrangements or large wagers entered into on the basis of the information contained within. It does however show how easily the Road To Wembley could open up for Boro if only the FA can come up with the same pairing.

In truth, so long as we can avoid number 5 and number 8 then anything the draw throws up is winnable. The next hardest is Portsmouth away and we've won there already this season. The banana skins might be Tony Mowbray's West Brom, we played them twice last season and only just squeezed through so they will fancy their chances, especially James Morrison. We'll see what the real balls serve up.


Comments (103)

Ken wrote...

After watching the Cup match, I definitely think that we need to have Mido, Alves, Tuncay and Downing on the pitch together.

They each bring a different capability, and having all four aspects together would be more difficult to defend against.

In actuality, that would greatly improve our results against lesser teams, which has been our biggest problem the past couple of years.

Looking forward to it...

Posted by: Ken  | February 18, 2008 7:03 AM

Dave Connor wrote...

What can one say about that game, well hard fought yes, a bit of everything yes,and some very poor BORO players yes. We were over run in midfield.

I thought oh oh Mr Downing he signes a new contract and goes missing for 80 mins, but he then became possibly our best player.

My first view of Alves and if MIDO is overweight what is he, odd touch, but certainly not in the 12 million class. If he was, do you not think one of the big clubs would have been after him. I will hold my vote on him.

I have wrote for the last few years my thoughts on Rochembach, he must rank amongst the worst players BORO have signed, for me I would not even play him, he does nothing at all apart from give the ball away or foul (yes 1 shot) so what.

I thought Mido did very well with the little service he got, he won just about everything in the air, but no one there to pick up the knock ons. We are in the draw and with a little bit of FA Cup luck we can progress, but we will certainly have to play better than we did on Sunday

**AV writes: I think Rochemback is the most divisive player for years. The Gazette gave him Man of the Match.

Posted by: Dave Connor  | February 18, 2008 7:59 AM

Holgate Ender wrote...

I'd take that. Will they let you do the draw for real?

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | February 18, 2008 8:03 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

This post is not assumung we progress in the cup but the replay is a chance for the club to show if they have learnt any lessons about ticketing from the past.

Do they have a clearly defined policy that ensures we all know where any future tickets will go. Will they have a system whereby they know who has bought tickets for matches this season home and away. Do they know who have been to the cup matches. Have they got a working database that isnt just about offering us a Boro Credit card.

Or would it be a return to season ticket holders passing their stubs to their mates as before.

I have no rights to a ticket so I can post without any self interest. It is not thinking we are through to semi but posing the question 'has the club learnt from the past'.

Before all this we need a good performance at Liverpool, if they better than us so be it, just make sure we turn up. We dont want a fiasco like Citeh last year, we are not far enough away from the bottom three to assume safety and pack in if we go out of the cup.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 18, 2008 8:30 AM

Ste Mac wrote...

Bad news Vic. We have staged our own draw in the office (me drawing home team and Andy R the away one) and we have got Boro going to Portsmouth away. On the plus side one of Chelsea and Man U are deffo going out.

The draw:

Portsmouth v Boro
Chelsea v Man U
Bristol Rovers v Cardiff
West Brom v Barnsley.

Mind, I reckon we can beat them and then I've got us pencilled in to beat Cardiff in the semi and Mogga will beat Chelsea. Sorted. Get you hotel booked.

**AV writes: Meanwhile on Teesside several new outbreaks of so called Mad Cup Disease have been confirmed....

Posted by: Ste Mac  | February 18, 2008 9:46 AM

BLT wrote...

As long as we don't get one of the one from the fridge I don't mind.

Posted by: BLT  | February 18, 2008 10:20 AM

mark j wrote...

A draw was a fair result after a bun fight that slowed up around the hour mark giving Boro a few chances to progress.

Mido seemed to break into a bit of fitness around the hour mark too. Pogger nearly nicked it at the end but I am glad there are no injuries....

5-4 on pens at the Riverside will do if the worst comes to the worst.

Posted by: mark j  | February 18, 2008 10:59 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

I have a colleague from scouseland coming over to Derby today. As a courtesy we will be allowing him to conduct the draw.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 18, 2008 11:16 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

I just managed to return from a sunny 3-week trip around Florida (more of a winter break than a Game 39 logistics exercise) in time to catch the Boro game on the box.

Unfortunately entertainment was restricted to watching pin-ball football as it appears that blades of the grass variety are in rather short supply in South Yorkshire.

Attempting to pass a football along the ground became a futile exercise and Rocky and Arca were just devoid of ideas.

How can Mido be allowed to fall under the banner of 'highly paid professional athlete'? He looks like he has a season ticket for every 'eat-as-much-as-you-like' buffet on Teesside.

Also I'm hoping that Alfonso is not going to turn out to be just a more expensive model of the Massimo Mk1 - who by-the-way is another highly paid professional athlete who should also have kept himself fit.

So hopefully we'll do the business in the replay next week once we have a pitch to play on.

My prediction for the QF Draw (based on the conspiracy theory that everthing is fixed to ensure commercial success) is:

Man U v West Brom
Cardiff v Barnsley
Bristol Rovers v Chelsea
Boro (or Sheff U) v Portmouth

Posted by: Werdermouth  | February 18, 2008 11:16 AM

frm wrote...

We've heard and read some absolute tosh, tripe about Boro's game yesterday.

This was one of the strongest, if not the strongest, display of united commitment seen by a Boro squad in decades, against a kick and rush outfit playing kick and rush football on a pitch good for nothing else.

Robbo is well out of it !! To see Mido and Rochembach not only showing some great skills but battling in an environment totally alien to them speaks wonders for the abilities of the management.

This was one of the most heart warming displays ever by the Boro and reminds you of some of the limp wristed displays under Big Mac.

Mido was simply superb (considering) - no wonder the real fans love him- and the future should be very bright IF everyone is fit and suspension free, AND with a powerful midfielder and a couple more squad members.

Just get the points to stay up !

Posted by: frm  | February 18, 2008 11:29 AM

AbuDhabi Cliff wrote...

Following on from Ste Mac. We`ve just had a cup draw in the hospital where I work and it's away to Portsmouth again.

The omens are not looking good! Mind you we beat them in the league so get your Cardiff hotel booked.

Can anyone lend me a few quid to fly from Abu Dhabi to see the Final??

Posted by: AbuDhabi Cliff  | February 18, 2008 11:45 AM

jiffy wrote...

Ken

Like your front 4 idea but how can you leave out Aliadiere on recent form? ok maybe not yesterday.

I think the most remarkable thing about yesterday's game was how much fitter Mido looked in the second half over the first.

Good thing too as Aliadiere promptly vanished at halftime and was replaced by a lookalike.

Worryingly those 2 have no semblance of an on-field partnership whatsoever. Whilst Mido won every first half header Aliadiere promptly ran away from every possible place to pick up a knockdown.

Alves is worrying. He looks as big a donkey as Ricketts. Mido you can see the progress in fitness-wise but Alves????? First touch makes Paul Wilkinson look world-class.

**AV writes: good old Boro fans: writing Europe's top scorer off after two 20 minute run-outs following a six week lay-off.

Posted by: jiffy  | February 18, 2008 12:24 PM

Never Happy wrote...

I predicted it in the last round so will stick with it.

Bristol Rovers away and another chance for the BBC to get the result that they are wishing for.

FRM - you are right, it is good to see the team fighting for each other on the pitch.

Cliff - the finals at Wembley this year!

The replay against Sheff U is likely to be on the BBC, hopefully the club will price up the tickets realistically so we get a decent crowd.

It's far to early to start worrying about the Fonz.

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 18, 2008 12:37 PM

Billy wrote...

I'd have to agree with the Gazette going for Rochemback as MoM, certainly based on his first half performance anyway. It just goes to show how differently two people can see the same game I guess.

That said, I also thought Arca had a stinker and was relieved when he went off in the second half. If he wasn't giving the ball away then it was free kicks in dangerous areas.

I'd say he was also to blame for Wheater's booking having given the ball away in a dangerous area that pretty much left Wheater with no option but to bring his man down. Maybe the captain's armband is cursed wrt form??

Posted by: Billy  | February 18, 2008 12:38 PM

DAVE CONNOR wrote...

Mr Vickers come on MAN OF THE MATCH? On that performance? What game was the reporter viewing? He was terrible.

We signed him on one good game against us. he has never produced that game again. remember Mclaren giving him the video of the Sunderland game to show him what he was doing wrong. Obviously he still has not watched it

**AV writes: As I said, he is very devisive.

Personally I went through a stage of screaming in frustration at him - not the done thing in the press box - but now I rate him as a very effective player who can putsin a match-winning through ball... although I still find his habitual need to try to flash ball when the easy one is on infuriating.

Posted by: DAVE CONNOR  | February 18, 2008 1:01 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Well, my scouse told me what I could do with my balls and in didnt sound very comfortable so here goes just before the real draw

1 Barnsley v Manu
2 Boro v WBA
3. chelsea v Pompey
4. Bristol v Cardiff

Semi finals to be
match 1 v match 2
match 3 v match 4

Now off to watch the real thing

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 18, 2008 1:22 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

"AV wrote:

FA Cup Draw: Exclusive Preview.

BORO will travel to Barnsley in the quarter-finals of the FA Cup. [...]"

It may not be the Tykes, Vic, but surely a home match against Cardiff City (& the homecoming of JFH! ;)) is the next best thing? :D

**AV writes: It'll do nicely. I've sacked the kids over their naive and woefully inaccurate draw mind.

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | February 18, 2008 1:40 PM

Neil (USA) wrote...

Just seen the draw on the Beeb's website.

Boro / Blades v Cardiff
Man U v Portsmouth
Rovers v Baggies
Barnsley v Chelsea

Other than drawing Rovers at home, I don't think we could have hoped for more...

I'll say this one more time...give Alaves a little time. Once he's acclimatized and fully fit, then judge. Right now it's not fair on the lad, especially as we're judging him in two tough situations:

1) debut, alone up front last 20 minutes

2) FA Cup against a battling Championship side

The comparisons to Ricketts are absolutely ridiculous. Could Ricketts go and score a goal a game in the eredivisie? If you believe that, I have a usedcar I'd like to sell you...

Posted by: Neil (USA)  | February 18, 2008 1:43 PM

Jack wrote...

Cardiff at home what more can we ask for come on Boro. Theres a real chance now lets see off the Blades.

Best of Luck from Sao Paulo


Posted by: Jack  | February 18, 2008 1:45 PM

Si wrote...

If we overcome the Blades in the replay, we're at home against Cardiff! A deceptively easy draw, especially if Jimmy catches our defence napping.

As Liverpool showed, you can't take anything for granted...

Re: the weekend match - yes, Mido surprised me, but I am starting to get a little concerned about Alves. (After all Ravanelli hit a hat-trick on his debut, Maccarone a double on his home debut. Yet they did have better fitness levels at the time.)

Posted by: Si  | February 18, 2008 1:48 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Its written in the stars, the final is going to be between Boro and Chelsea.

The old boys reunion will continue until the final. Robbo (when the draw was made), JFH and then Mogga.

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 18, 2008 2:15 PM

Never Happy wrote...

The future is looking bright for the Boro.

We are where we are in the PL despite playing much of the season without a recognised centre forward.

The signing of Alves and return of Mido can only improve this missing piece of the jigsaw.

The emergence of Wheater and latterly Grounds are yet another endorsement of the Boro academy.

GS promised us attacking football and in the last couple of months Boro have produced the goods.

Tuncay and Alliadiere are both improving by the game.

Downing signing for another 5 years shows his faith in that the club are heading in the right direction.

An FA cup semi final is very much there for the taking.

I like many doubted GS at the beginning of the season and I am quite happy to admit that he is proving me wrong big style.

Yet again SG has stuck to his guns and the team and fans are now seeing the benefits of our chairman yet again proving how good he is for MFC.

C’Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 18, 2008 2:59 PM

teesuniboroboy wrote...

WE NEED TO WIN THE REPLY FIRST !!!!!!!

its all starting to get very exciting. Thought we were quite bad yesterday but at least weve now got a home replay which we should win.

Cardiff next! what a great draw and no reason why we cant get to the final. but please let it not be chelsea again.

Glad to see Downing re-sign and hopefully when Alves gets his fitness back he will be just what we need. Glad to to see Mido back. He had a couple of moments yesterday but I have to say that i would like to see him looking less like Rickets. a lot less!

Posted by: teesuniboroboy  | February 18, 2008 3:15 PM

Geordie Lurker wrote...

Well smoggies, it was fun while it lasted for you eh? You might have had a chance if you got Barnsley but either Sheff Utd or Cardiff will beat you now. Don't book them hotel rooms just yet eh?

That match was dreadful by the way. All you do is kick and scarp and hoof it up to Sumo. Is this the Southgate revolution of attacking play you all bleat on about?

Posted by: Geordie Lurker  | February 18, 2008 3:18 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Geordie Lurker

Geordies at home - watching TV,
Geordies at home - watching TV.

Go back to your own website before you get nationalised like Northern Rock. At least you are well matched, both are grossly mismanaged, living a lie and just hoping someone will turn them round before they go belly up.

Rumour has it Ashley is going to sell out to DIC, now that would look good on the shirts.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 18, 2008 3:35 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Geordie Lurker - come out from where you are hiding and post by your true identity - Closet Boro Fan

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 18, 2008 3:44 PM

David Morrison wrote...

While it lasted? You're forgetting we are still in the cup matey. Sheff utd isnt a great place to go and we have done well to get a replay.

The pitch was awful and there was no way we could have sprayed the ball around as is our usual game. The difference is you barcodes are jealous and you would love this opportunity just love it.

The draw's been good as well and not to get to carried away but Wemboroley is beckoning yet again....

You might wanna consider staying on ure own blog with all your other losers crying about the messiah returning...
oh and good luck with man u next week..

Any ideas on what the highest score in premier league is?


COME ON BORO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | February 18, 2008 3:57 PM

Never Happy wrote...

AV - don't suppose you will allow this post, its especially for our lurking friend

[edit]

Answer: A Newcastle top!

**AV writes: Er, no. Not sure about that one - allthough l'm sure we have all had it text to us at some point over the last week anyway.

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 18, 2008 4:49 PM

Barnboro wrote...

Now, hang on a minute AV.

Boro have still to get past the Blades to even reach the next round, Barnsley - already there. Ha, ha. If the performance on Sunday was anything to go by Boro need to up their effort by 100%.

The game was awful. I thought I was watching an outbreak of head tennis, with long balls thrown in for good measure. Having said that, surely they can't play as poorly again? May the best team win on Wednesday week.

Posted by: Barnboro  | February 18, 2008 4:51 PM

James Emmerson wrote...

I thought Boro did well yesterday. No-one seems to be posting on the fact that we have got a lousy record at Bramhall Lane (only one win in the last umpteen visits) and to keep the dream alive there was an acheivement whose weight in gold will become more apparent.

We should win the replay - certainly if we get the first goal we will - and then bring on Cardiff.

But did anyone like me drift back to 1978 when we beat Bolton in round 5 and with Arsenal and Ipswich still in the hat we drew Orient at home?

I can still remember the crush in the Holgate as 33,000 jammed in to watch Ashcroft miss a sitter and bow-legged Glen Roeder have the game of his life. That was the biggest missed opportunity of Boro's history up to 1986!

So while we should beat Cardiff, history makes me wary!

Posted by: James Emmerson  | February 18, 2008 5:02 PM

nigel (mumbai) wrote...

Geordie Lurker...sorry mate, who did you say you played over the weekend? Must be tough supporting such a big club and seeing it sink like a stone towards the relegation trapdoor, and then, just to make it worse, have to watch the little club down the road rise above you and head for Wembley (again) all at the same time...

I hold my hands up and apologise to both Steve Gibson and Gareth Southgate - they both took a huge risk but by now we should have learned to trust SG's judgement. The consistency in the team, and the progress we've made in recent weeks tell their own stories.

We have a great chance but luck and destiny usually play a part - let's hope that Mido and Alves can get themselves fully fit - I think Tuncay will be the key to unlocking the goals in Alves. Come on you reds!!

Posted by: nigel (mumbai)  | February 18, 2008 5:03 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

(whisper.... please, Boro bloggers...please ignore Geordie Lurker...do not respond, do not mention his name from this moment on...)

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | February 18, 2008 5:07 PM

Pat Mc, Dubai wrote...

....and let him stew in silence (and envy?) in his black and white sarcastic bile. Heed my call Boro fans!

Posted by: Pat Mc, Dubai  | February 18, 2008 5:31 PM

Nick Hill wrote...

Dave Conner, you say Rochemback one of the worst players we have had for years? Rochemback is a very good player and yes he has the odd bad game but this season overall i think he has had a good season.

Many people still have a bad interpretation on him because of the first months he was here and use him as a scapegoat when we perform badly (a bit like downing was for england) but since then there has been a vast improvement.

He is a very good passer and he tries to open up teams, sometimes it doesn't always work out but he has the vision to pick a great pass. He is very strong and keeps hold of the ball well, he always gets back and yes he needs to work on his constant fouling but he is a very useful and effective player.

Players like Cattermole has been far more inconsistent yet he does one good sliding tackle and hes suddenly a Boro hero.

Posted by: Nick Hill  | February 18, 2008 6:12 PM

david peake wrote...

Geordie lucker, who made a meal of stoke and had to have a replay eh?? Smoggy in disguise haha come on boro

Posted by: david peake  | February 18, 2008 6:49 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

What is it about the curse of the Captains armband for our midfielders? Has some despot Toonie laced it with Kryptonite? The Boat lost all his tenacity when wearing it and on Sunday Julio was an accident waiting to happen. I found myself trying to check his boots convinced he had borrowed DGL's!

Overall a scrappy affair and one to forget but at least we scrapped and got a replay out of it. A combination of a cabbage patch pitch and the Blades using their usual robust physical approach would have seen us battered out of it a few months ago.

Got to admit that Rocky was definitely MOM and is starting to look a decent player.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | February 18, 2008 7:44 PM

mark j wrote...

Special shout out to Grounds who had a splendid match against the Blades!

On that bobbly pitch Rochenback's passing is diluted but I still thought he played well and deserved his start, in fact he has been very consistent for us for some time especially against Blackburn where his through balls split the defence untold times in the first 35mins.

It is clear though that some people want him not only to supply the pass but run to receive it and put it in the net as well....

Posted by: mark j  | February 18, 2008 8:33 PM

Benny Brown wrote...

It is not a choice between Mido and Alves, Gareth must pick them both as they are are entirely different players.

Alves is the goal poacher not hard working only awaiting the half chance to snatch a goal. Mido is a hard working goals goal scorer who will help out in defence when required.

Alididiere must also play, also Downing and Tuncay, that leaves us a bit light on in mid field, but Arca and Boeteng can do the donkey work.

We will then have an attacking force to scare the pants of most teams. We would have to play with a three man back line of Huth. Wheater. and Pogatetz, with willing forwards like Mido coming back to help out in defence this would be a great attacking team to finish off the season.

My only worry is that I have heard that Alves is a lazy player but will score the goals, so if we can afford the luxury of such a player, (Remember Jimmy Greaves), all should be rosy in the Boro outlook.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | February 19, 2008 5:23 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Shame they have moved the cup replay to Wednesday, would rather have had the extra days rest before the Reading match because that in reality is more important in the longer term.

With tough league matches coming up we need to be getting points where we can. Reading will have had two weeks to clear up knocks and bruises and focus on this match, Coppell is a shrewd cookie and wont have wasted the time available to him. They are a hard working team so we will neeed to up and running from the start.

Before that a tough trip to Liverpool so an exciting few days, a case of taking each day as it comes

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 19, 2008 9:16 AM

Nigel wrote...

frm - you're dead right Boro got stuck in against a physical route one team, the pitch was so awful there was no chance of Rocky & Arca playing creative football, it was a job well done, now we need to show the same commitment in the replay.

I think Rocky is a great player, not his best ever game against the blades but he's an asset to the team.

PatMc - why do we want Geordie Lurker to go away? We all have a good laugh when he posts! You have to remember that at some point in the future, maybe this May a team will win the FA cup who are not from the big four, the barcodes are worried stiff it may be Boro.

Looking ahead Liverpool have Inter coming up, a tough match and it may be a bad result, saturday may be a good time to play them.

Posted by: Nigel  | February 19, 2008 9:37 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

With Mido announcing he'll soon to be able to last a game and Alves hopefully obtaining some fitness, along with Tuncay returning from injury - what team should Boro play?

I think it may be time to use the pace of Aliadiere on the right and move O'Neil into the centre of midfield.

We could also play Tuncay in the centre but that would probably leave us too lightweight.

Mido and Alves up-front may ultimately be the best combination but until they are both fit I think Tuncay should partner one of them.

I'm still not convinced by either Rocky or Arca in midfield as they seem to give both the ball and free kicks away too frequently.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | February 19, 2008 9:51 AM

Si wrote...

So Rochemback is rubbish, then Dave you're an eejit. It's typical Boro fan syndrome a player starts poorly and is not given a chance once he starts playing well.

He and Luke Young have been by far and away our most outstanding experienced players this season. Arca and O'Neill are quite clearly the weak links in our midfield.

I can remember one stray pass from Rocky, Arca's nearly got Wheater sent off and O'Neil I'm sure has Aspergers syndrome he just switches off during games and starts picking Daisy's from the pitch.

Posted by: Si  | February 19, 2008 10:53 AM

gt wrote...

after watching a number of games at the weekend,i saw 3 players from the lower league,that are worth looking at again: Howard ,Barnsley capt, sweet left foot, 23 yrs old; Preston goalie, 23yrs old, u21 international; Brown, Preston forward, held the ball up well,and was mobile, 24 yrs old

Posted by: gt  | February 19, 2008 12:07 PM

Richard wrote...

Ian Gill:
I'm not sure that it matters if the gap between matches is longer before or after the midweek game. All our matches are potentially season-defining at the moment.

Werdermouth & Redcar Red:

The propensity for our midfielders to give the ball away, I think, comes a bit with the midfielder's role rather than necessarily with the Captaincy.

The "creative" midfield role is a difficult one to play in the Premier League and can be impossible on some poor surfaces. Extra touches are generally required for enough possession to get truly creative and find the defence splitting distribution or make the forward run to create your own space.

I've noticed that Arca does hold the ball longer than I'm sometimes comfortable with - especially on surfaces like Bramall Lane - given the amount of pressure exerted on the man in possession by teams in midfield.

But I think that's what it takes for a good creative midfielder to do a good job - find the space and time to set himself up, take in what movement there is around and execute the movement.

What Arca (and George before him, as Captain) need to be careful about is not feeling unnecessarily responsible to "DO" more possession football, somehow to demonstrate Captaincy.

That's not essentially what's required of the Captain, but if it's carried out in that manner, the individual's game may actually suffer because of the added pressure/ responsibility felt. I personally, think that's why George's football game suffered a bit when he took the Captaincy.

Onto Rocky. Rocky is a bit more robust than Arca and compensates a bit for losing it by winning it back or simply knocking the opponent over.

I know I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs, but football can be a wholly different game depending on the playing surfaces available and the energy/ aggression of the opposition.

Boro did very well to come through the Sheffield match and earn the replay because of both factors. One would hope that, at least, the ground conditions at the Riverside would be more conducive to Boro's "natural" gameplay than the sometimes "kick and rush" or "up and over" that goes with matches played on rough or poorly-conditioned turf.

That said, Sheffield Utd are very energetic and they'll be right in our faces challenging for everything loose and trying to disable our midfield's creativity by closing down quickly in midfield and in our half and in numbers in more vulnerable defensive positions.

The fat lady certainly hasn't sung yet.

Posted by: Richard  | February 19, 2008 12:12 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

There should be no reason for professional footballers to worry about playing twice a week so I tend to agree but we are likely to get a more physical game from SheffU than Liverpool so possibly another day might ease bumps and bruises.

Whilst we are all looking to keep our run going someone is going to get a backlash from Liverpool, the timing looks unfortunate from our viewpoint and if we don't do well the sooner you play again the better.

But often teams that have two weeks off sometimes take a while to get going.

Who knows what is best?

On to another topic, I see Scudamore is still on about the 39th gam£. Dont bet against Bladder finding a way to turn it to his advantage to arrange some kind of FIFA club competition.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 19, 2008 2:11 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Ian

With six home PL games to play Boro now have enough quality to get the points we need to avoid getting dragged back into the relegation dog fight.

The longer we stay in the cup the better, as if we can keep everyone fit we now have competition for places all over the pitch.

None of the players will want to miss out and will know that if they do not perform that someone else is waiting to take their place.

C'Mon Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | February 19, 2008 2:57 PM

Richard wrote...

Ian, thanks for the opening! (I hope you won’t regret it, but then I guess you don’t have to read this!)

I had written this piece for an AV earlier thread but decided not to submit it as Anthony moved our focus onto the weekend’s important FA Cup match.

However, I think this matter is such an opportunity for fans right across the county to let it be known that there’s much more to football in this country than money and the opportunity for some to make a lot more of it – at least without involving supporters and including them, instead of treating them as disposable hangers-on.

So I’ve decided to post it. Sorry about the length of it. I know I do go on and I’m in danger of being my own worst enemy. But I’m angry and dismayed about the Premier League’s attitude and their unholy alliance with the TV networks and how this is affecting our national game.

I wrote this in response to…………

Buffaloboro:

On many previous threads in this blog, the reality of the modern Premier League has been aired. And I think we all understand that it’s money that influences matters more than any other single factor in the modern game.

With due respect, that’s NOT the point that’s at issue, although clearly related to it, in taking exception to Keith Lamb’s positioning of the club vis a vis Gam£ 39.

The point is that we don’t have to like, or accept the modern reality of it and we don’t have to sit back and meekly take what other people dish out to us. We can at least try to have a say in how the future of the game is shaped. And don’t underestimate the power of popular opinion – especially when such popular opinion carries with it the threat of hitting enterprises in the P&L Account!!

That’s why there are (inter)national petitions currently running in opposition to the proposal for Gam£ 39. (See http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/no-to-game-39/signed.php?ID=&di=#namelist )

And it’s presumably, at least partly, why Anthony Vickers started a thread to air the subject. One which I hope will not simply be allowed to evaporate – the subject is too important for the future of football not to be kept in the public eye.

And my personal position is in opposition to Lamb’s (and Gibson’s) stance, which appears to be in support of Gam£ 39 and presumably any other hair-brained, insulting, money-making absurdity that the Premier League, the FA or the TV networks dream up and try to foist off on us, the domestic/local paying public.

And whilst I defer to the fact that this is ostensibly a Boro blog, it’s also a forum for ordinary local football supporters like you and me to air concerns about much wider issues concerning football generally, than simply acknowledging how great it is that Boro have extended Stewart Downing’s contract.

The fact of the matter is that unless ordinary fans of all of our clubs are made and kept aware and take an active interest in the bigger issues concerning the future of football and actually express concerns and debate what the future looks like, then we will get only what the guys with power, the top money men, the Suits, decide they want to give us. And it will be only that which will be most advantageous to them – not us!

So whilst I think that Lamb has done the right thing to sign Stewart Downing, he has, in fact, only done his job. Incidentally, I’m as impressed by Stewart Downing as I am by Keith Lamb, on this occasion. Stewart, to his immense credit, has behaved throughout in a thoroughly professional and decent manner - unlike his agent. And I share the delight that has been expressed here that Stewart will continue to ply his trade at the Riverside.

Whilst I take nothing away from Keith Lamb or Steve Gibson in terms of how they have run MFC within the framework of the modern game, there are aspects of that modern game which are unacceptable to many, many fans who feel that they are threatening the future of domestic football.

I personally, will be much more impressed if Lamb and Gibson take a position in support of the discontinuation of globalisation of the Premier League and stand up more for the common domestic fans’ position rather than continue to subscribe to and be caught up in the political mess that is developing around the Premier League, which is being used increasingly purely for the financial advantage of those clubs at the top and the TV networks (and not necessarily in that order!).

Now, when THAT happens, I’ll give Keith Lamb and Steve Gibson as much praise as they’ll deserve.

For goodness sake! These are men who can make points of consequential principle at the highest level in our domestic game. They, like us, have decisions to make. They can roll over and go along with whatever the others in the Premier League decide is “right�, or they can take a stance on the basis of principles in which they themselves believe.

I’m not saying that’s easy. Far from it. But these guys are supposed to be leaders in our midst. These guys have shown themselves to be successful in many ways.

Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb have traded for many years on the currency of being local guys, working for a local club, built around local community and with due regard for the local people. Where the hell do you think the “One of us!� identity came from?

It seems to me that we’re at a point in time in the history of the development of club football at the highest club level in this country, for Steve Gibson and his Owner/Chairmen colleagues (and their Chief Executives), to make some personal choices and to decide whether they favour a continuation of our domestic football heritage or whether they wish to be a part of the run of turkeys that vote to participate in celebration of Christmas 2010.

I have often, in the past, against considerable personal abuse in other forums, defended Keith Lamb and Steve Gibson’s positions as responsible officers of Middlesbrough Football Club. And I have commended their honesty and frankness in dealing with supporters. I still do.

However, the point I’m trying to force here is that there is a bigger game being played out than simply running the business on a day-to-day or season-by-season basis.

It’s the fight for the heart and soul of the game of football in this country. The “playing field� on which the game is being played (i.e. the way in which the clubs, as businesses, are being driven to be run) is changing. And it’s being changed in ways that;

1. reduce true sporting competition,…….

2. favour the strongest, simply making them stronger relative to the weaker and perpetuate item 1 above, ………..

3. further line the pockets of already hugely wealthy people, - not on its own objectionable, by the way, but whilst in the process……..

4. are displaying a total lack of respect and consideration or regard for

a) the effect that it has on our national game and it’s future, and for

b) the continuing involvement at the grass roots of the game by local supporters of local teams right across the country, whose support has enabled the game to develop and who themselves feel ownership of the bedrock of the game of football, if not the businesses built upon it, and……….

5. reduce the game to one of commerce only – the football or the entertainment is entirely secondary. That’s why it’s now referred to as a “product�. The game of football is merely a vehicle for News Corporation (via Sky and associated networks) to win in their own (much bigger) game of further expansion in world media and through that, goodness knows what else! (And the way in which they’re going about it is to offer a few of the globally marketable “brands� at the top of the Premier League, increased TV exposure in places where they can increase their TV income.

Yes, they’ll offer attractive money to the clubs initially, which the clubs will find hard to resist, as witnessed by Keith Lamb’s readiness to snap their hands off for an additional £5M, but the clubs will become increasingly dependent on them and so will the whole game of football. By the way, if every club in the Premier League gains an additional £5M, nothing changes - except the gulf between the Premier League and the Championship grows wider and players’ salaries get even bigger!!)

Unless influential people within individual clubs take a stand – preferably collectively, that recognises the downside of the rush to globalisation and resist such moves, we will have this continuous pressure on the fault line between the top four, who dominate and the rest who, let’s face it, cannot and should no longer be competing on the same playing field.

The deck is now permanently stacked and I believe its time for a major reshuffle. (Anthony Vickers made reference to the close proximity, in his opinion – and mine - of the “Tipping Point�)

The honest solution would be if the top four would leave and form an international league with similar-minded clubs from elsewhere and let them make their money via solely via TV. And if they did, I don’t think they deserve domestic support because they’ll have betrayed their roots and their heritage and the culture that spawned them.

However, the problem they have at present, is that they actually need the rest of us cannon-fodder to demonstrate to the rest of the world, via TV, just how wonderful they are, what great winners they are and how worth supporting they are – just so that they can get richer and even stronger. And all the while, irrespective of which clubs are deriving benefit, the TV networks can’t lose!!!

They provide the conduit (sorry!) through which the “product�, whatever it is, is taken to market. The things that they need for a successful business are the top four globally marketable “brands� and a sprinkling of “inferiors� – like the team of worth “honky’s� (I can’t even remember their name now, so what does that tell you!) that travelled the globe in the shadow of the Harlem Globetrotters as ridicule fodder for Mudlark Lemon (?) and his talented, but essentially showmen, NOT sportsmen, colleagues.

OK, let’s also acknowledge there’s another side to the coin. The “also ran� clubs like Boro, are deriving some financial benefit from continued involvement. But relatively, it’s chicken feed by comparison with what the big boys can accumulate through increased TV exposure to global markets.

However, that advantage is not passed through to local supporters in most cases. It’s being hijacked by players and agents, aided by European Law and the lack of appropriate levels of governance that restricts the number of foreign nationals that can form our squads.

In fact, a smaller cross-section of our domestic spectating community can participate in the game any more – unless they accept the relatively sterile, recorded version of events that gets served up by Sky at a lower cost than real-time attendance.

That’s also partly why we have increasingly diffident vocal support and more critically demanding crowds in our grounds – many of the passionate, vocal people have been excluded by cost of attendance – as well as a few other factors like over-zealous and “jobsworth� stewarding, the “seat police� and mouths too full of prawn sandwiches to make much of a noise – even if they didn’t belong to corporate hangers-on who only attend because it’s a corporate perk and not because they particularly want to follow Boro.

In fact, some of them will only attend once or twice in a season and they’ll spend their matchtime “being on their best behaviour� – which doesn’t include shouting out in an unseemly manner for fear of offending the boss, the client, the bank manager or the supplier!

It’s all part of the shifting of the game into the demographic sector where there’s more disposable income. So if you want a better – well, noisier - atmosphere in the ground on match-day, open it up to the people you’ve excluded. The socially uninhibited.

To do so, the “benefits� of money coming into the game from TV needs to be passed through to domestic supporters in the form of reduced cost of attendance. Only that way will we fill our stadia with noise and atmosphere.

Similarly, a much improved benefit needs to be demonstrated in the development of the national team. It’s absolutely ludicrous that when the Premier League is the strongest financially performing league in the world, the nation hosting that league, England, fails to even qualify to participate in Euro 2008! Something’s wrong! Money hasn’t improved things for the domestic football supporter. It’s made things worse! On so many fronts!

In competitive terms, Boro and other clubs outside of the top four no closer to winning the Premier League Championship than we were 20 years ago. In fact, most of us are further away because of increased polarisation. The annual procession continues.

In the long run, it would be better for the rest of us for Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, were to make a clean break and go off with Bayern, Lyon, Inter, Barca etc. and try to make their money on a TV-only international stage. They’re just using the rest of us for their own disproportionate commercial gain.

And that’s why principled positions must be taken and argued.

As a local supporter, I’ve nailed my colours to the mast. If globalisation of the Premier League game proceeds with Boro as part of it, I shall withdraw my support for the game completely and as a regrettable consequence of that, from Boro also.

I will have reached my limits of tolerance and like many before me, will turn my back on a game which no longer represents acceptable social values nor works within a framework that supports or takes appropriate cogniscence of its social and local community roots – despite the “focussed� community work being done by the club.

Tactically, perhaps forcing the issue at this time is inappropriate. And when I wrote my letter to Steve Gibson last week, I was more conciliatory than perhaps I am now. But that’s because Keith Lamb has now declared the club’s hand to be in opposition to what I believe most domestic clubs’ supporters’ instincts tell them is right for them and “their� game.

But if we all sit back and say nothing, then Keith Lamb’s words from last year will apply to this matter also. We’ll all get what we all deserve – not what we want!

That Buffaloboro, is NOT niave! It’s eyes wide open and full of passion!

And some of us care enough to stand up and do something about it! And, by the way, I expect Lamb to deliver messages in both directions – otherwise, the messenger should deserve some sort of sanction, although shooting is probably a bit too extreme!

**AV writes: I agree with most of that. The problem is that clubs are driven by the bottom line and right now, no matter how undignified it is being a no-hoper, an also-ran and cannon fodder, the crumbs on the top table are still far more lucrative than being a big hitter in the lower leagues.

That means until the economics stack up favourably outside the magic circle no smaller club will break ranks and stand up for principle so long as they are terrified they may lose out on some as yet unknown windfall.

It comes down to us - the fans - being powerless and alienated and the paradox is that we have no chance of regaining any semblance of control until the BIG BOYS decide to jettison us because they have calculated that we are no longer any financial use to them.

I think the subconscious knowledge of that powerlessness
and the slow change from an active connection with the club and an emotional relationship to a role as a passive consumer and an economic relationship is at the root of the slow ebbing away of passion and atmosphere - and without that there is no game.

There is the real contradiction: the industry is growing because it has lowered the bar when it comes to passionate engagement. That makes it easier to sell the game to people have no real feel for a club, its history and identity to those in Melbourne or Manila who simply select a brand yet at the same time undermines the cultural integrity of clubs and dissolves the social glue that has always held them together.



Posted by: Richard  | February 19, 2008 4:36 PM

Nigel wrote...

Si - I agree with your view on Rocky but you're off the mark regarding Arca and O'Neil.

Both have been excellent this season. I would say O'Neil has been one of Southgates best buys, we dont have weak links in midfield in my opinion.

I'll be interested to see how GS plans to fit Aliadiere and tuncay into the team alongside Alves/Mido.

Ian - A back lash from Liverpool, maybe, but saturday will still be a good opportunity to get a result. Anyway its so long since we won Anfield that the odds on us winning must be good!

Further more Lawro is bound to predict a scouse win.

Games coming thick and fast is a good thing for a team in form it keeps the momentum going..........

Posted by: Nigel  | February 19, 2008 4:54 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Never Happy

As with Richard I dont disagree, merely stated that the original Tuesday date would have suited us better. We have bowed to the TV schedules and I seem to recall a lot of steam (from me included) being released about football selling its soul to the devil.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 19, 2008 5:52 PM

tonyblack wrote...

FA Cup Final here we come !!!!!! Why not ???

OK, we didn't play very well Sunday but I thought we did alright. Mido had a few moments and if he can just lose that Elvis gut of his I think he could do a whole lot better, and if Alves gets his fitness back then we should be ok up front.

I'm a big fan of Wheaters and really hope we sign him up soon so that it's all sorted. Good too to see Downing sorted out as we can't afford to be letting people of his quality go. Hopefully he will put his head down now and work hard to improve even more.

Finally, sign up the keeper who kept Liverpool out of the next round of the cup !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | February 19, 2008 6:42 PM

Horace Batchelor wrote...

In this modern day and age why do some Boro fans still keep persisting with this "We are only a small town, small club" rubbish on the internet.

Granted that this could have been said to be true before the Steve Gibson/Bryan Robson era but it is not true these days and it smacks of "small time" saying that it is.

Boro sign proven International players, pay big wages and have excellent facilities and are now way ahead of clubs from places of similar size and stature to what the Boro were years ago like Swindon, Crystal Palace, Norwich etc.

All right we aren't up there with the Man Utds and Arsenals but nevertheless, the Boro aren't the smalltime outfit that a lot of our own fans would have you believe.

With the Premiership being so widely watched all over the world , I think it's fair to say that all established Premier League clubs are now big in their own right, though being a big club does not neccessarily equate to being successful (as Man City & Newcastle prove).

Boro are in there and we should be proud of it and we should cut out all this small time charlie nonsense because in this day and age, it just isn't true anymore.

Posted by: Horace Batchelor  | February 19, 2008 8:36 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

Ian Gill: Great minds & all that, not that mine is... Nevertheless, I'd been wondering about the possibility of a Liverpool backlash, too...! *eek*

And now back to FA Cup matters, just in case nobody's seen this on the Beeb site:

"BBC to screen Barnsley in FA Cup

The BBC will screen three of the four FA Cup sixth round matches, starting with Barnsley's home tie to Premier League side, Chelsea. Barnsley beat Liverpool in the fifth round and the tie from Oakwell will be shown on 8 March at 1730 GMT.

***Sheffield United or Middlesbrough will play Cardiff at 1310 GMT on 9 March and that will also be shown.***

The action will be concluded on Sunday when Bristol Rovers take on West Brom at 1800 GMT. League One Bristol Rovers are the only team from outside the top two divisions still left in the tournament and have beaten Fulham and Southampton to reach the quarter-finals.

The other tie of the round is between Manchester United and Portsmouth and will kick off at 1245 GMT on the Saturday."

I hope to God we can stuff the Blades a week today!

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | February 19, 2008 8:45 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

frm

I've come straight to the end of the blog after reading your Sheff Utd post, so I don't know what's gone on in between!

I must say, mate or mates, that I agree with you totally. This was a battling blood and guts display by Boro who gave absolutely everything, even if the standard of the football on show from both sides (head-tennis, anyone?) was pretty lousy.

I too thought Mido had a great game (does he feel Afonso breathing down his neck?) and Pog was absolutely outstanding.

Let's have more of the same on Sat against L'pool. They've just beaten Inter 2-0, so will be on a high and we'll need to be at our best to get anything, despite their recent run of poor form.

Come on Boro!

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | February 19, 2008 10:09 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Benny Brown

Wot no Gary O'Neill????

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | February 19, 2008 10:18 PM

London-based Boro fan wrote...

It's very frustrating that there's no way of editing inadvertently inaccurate posts on here before they appear!

**AV writes: Yes it is, especially if you have made a little mistake or want to tidy something up or events overtake you but is a relatively simple system. If it gets any more complex it becomes too time intensive for me and I've got to have a life.

Posted by: London-based Boro fan  | February 19, 2008 10:20 PM

Richard wrote...

Hi AV! Don't post this - unless you particularly want to, it won't really add value to any blog discussion. Too few of your contributors seem to be bothered. But have you seen this?

http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/news0098murdoch.html

I dont think the FSF have made as much of it as they might just yet. But I guess it's early days and at least it's in the public domain. I've convinced myself that the TV media networks are behind this and the 16 "also-rans" in the Premier League are being used by the TV networks and the top four, via the Premier League.

**AV writes: Yes, I've seen the connection. I don't think the FSF - or indeed anyone in the media - can really make too much of it without a more evidence of how all the bits fit together. Right now it is part of the network of coincidence that surrounds broadcast rights and football politics.

That said, there is no doubt the also-rans (and the wannabees) are being used by the big boys. Although they think they are doing the using. It will all end in tears.

Posted by: Richard  | February 19, 2008 11:30 PM

robin wrote...

AV,

I would just love to meet Richard as he seems to have an IQ as great as mine, Tony Black's and Scratchy our Guinea Pig!

No, but joking aside if Richard has not already got a job in football then he jolly well should have. I meet an awful lot of people in football and Richard's shrewd and quietly analytical style deserves a place well above some of theirs.

BORO for the final maybe but if we can't get our Tommy Tuckers forwards fit enough quickly enough then please BORO club employ Tony Black who I am sure can at least get those lardos THINKING they're fit and not fat...if it doesn't work we can start a rugby club. GET THESE PLAYERS OFF THE PARMOS NOW!

Speaking of matters fatulence please don't worry about Fattlebank, although he can run fatter oops faster than me his shorts are only one size smaller than mine.

Robin Mitton
FATTBALL FOR NATIONS Ltd

Posted by: robin  | February 19, 2008 11:50 PM

DAVE CONNOR wrote...

To all readers of this very good website, much better than the "forum" and in particular to Nick Hill, Redcar Red and Si - we are all entitled to our opinions and Si that doesnt make me an ejjitt.

I have watched Rochembach since he came to the BORO possibly more than you, because we get all of the BORO games on out here.

I stand by my comments over the period of time since he came here. I agree he has had the occasional good game, but they are far outweighed by the very poor games he has, and surely anyone with even "rose coluored glasses" will agree to that. If he was MOM on sunday how bad were the other players?

Thanks for you words AV at least you could speak the truth. And lets face how many of the true BORO supporters wanted him out last season and even most of this season, even on a free transfer.

We now have a very good chance of progress, but seeing how our midfield performed on sunday, I think Sheff Utd will also be up for the game, and lets face even for any BORO fan they over-run us for most of the game in midfield

Posted by: DAVE CONNOR  | February 20, 2008 6:11 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard and AV

Checked the link and it is no surprise that Mr Eddington was involved in the gam£ 39 plan.

I stick by my view
* that Septic will become involved
* that the broadcasters will whisper in associations ears
* that some form of FIFA world club championship will evolve (one of Septics pet ideas) including the big boys from home and abroad in a winter break.
* the rest of us will just have to lump it although there will be something for us - a mini competition for a UEFA place.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 20, 2008 7:53 AM

tonyblack wrote...

London-based Boro fan wrote...

It's very frustrating that there's no way of editing inadvertently inaccurate posts on here before they appear!

" **AV writes: Yes it is, especially if you have made a little mistake or want to tidy something up or events overtake you but is a relatively simple system. If it gets any more complex it becomes too time intensive for me and I've got to have a life. "

Why don't you make it forum based blog ?

That way you could also have some moderators who would lighten the load for you in the legal dept e.t.c., leaving you more time to possibly comment more on the discussion.

In time as the blog grows more and more popular it's going to become impossible for you to run the show on your own anyway!

Just a thought.....

TB

**AV writes: The Gazette has a forum. Forums can be an unstructured free-for-all and while they can be fun they can also be a bit of a zoo. That's not really what I want.

Posted by: tonyblack  | February 20, 2008 9:24 AM

Si wrote...

Just to clarify about my comments on O'Neill and Arca, I am actually a big fan of both. I was merely referring to current form, of which both are currently way off their best. On a lighter note does Arca remind anybody else of the Waterboy?

**AV writes: Arca is the absolute spit of The Count from Sesame Street.

Posted by: Si  | February 20, 2008 9:47 AM

Werdermouth wrote...

In reply to some of the Gam£ 39 posts...

I remember posting last year on the possibility of 2 foreign-owned clubs deciding at some point to play one of their fixtures abroad – it’s a bit disconcerting to realise how quickly this possibility is now becoming closer to reality.

Having said that, people who bemoan the big 4 exploiting other teams in the league to their own advantage have short memories – I remember how when Liverpool were top dogs they would regularly pick off the best players from other clubs (remember David Hodgson and Craig Johnston?).

Also the idea that the money-men are suddenly controlling the game is about 15 years out of date from when Sky entered the scene - all we are witnessing now is another step in the arms race.

The power of the big clubs increased further 10 years ago when the Champions League was opened up to clubs who didn’t win their leagues – with further TV money being injected. Football exists in a symbiotic relationship with TV in the same way horse racing and bookmakers exist.

It’s also no surprise, given the globalisation of our jobs, the products we buy and even the food we eat, that somehow football can be immune from these forces.

Though as much as I don’t agree with the principle of where the game has moved, I’m also a realist and I’m not expecting the government to stump up billions of pounds to nationalise the game.

Look at it from this point of view: Boro is probably around the 30th richest club in the world – which considering the size of Middlesbrough is quite amazing. This has only been achieved through successful commercial operation by Steve Gibson and long-term ssuccess on the pitch.

So as AV said earlier, clubs can’t suddenly decide to opt out of the arms race if they wish to enjoy top-flight football (and I'm in that camp) – unfortunately we live in a today’s fast-moving world and not a romantic ideal world where everything is fair and equal.


Posted by: Werdermouth  | February 20, 2008 10:08 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Further to my post to Richard and AV, it is instructive to observe what is happening in India at this very moment.

Players from all over the world are being bought at auction to play for teams in their twenty20 cricket competition, the proceeds going to the Indian cricket board - Mohindra Dhoni went for £1.3million, someone tried to get Simmonds and Harbijhan in the same team following their spat in the test match. A year ago when it was announced the world said it would never happen. Now it is being run by the Indian cricket board and the local equivalent of sky (Star I think).

I dont for one moment think it will happen in football but it just shows what can happen when people start whispering sweet nothings to each other.

Beware of Septic Bladder, even Platini might come down from his Gallic moral highpoint once the moneymen start talking.

To the tune of the Red Flag:

'the working class can kiss my a***,
I've got the foremans job at last.'

Onto forum or blog, I prefer the current format where we can have reasoned debate. We have AV moderating, so to some extent the content is controlled but on most of the forums it appears there is more abuse and less debate - a bit like the old message board.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 20, 2008 10:12 AM

Nigel wrote...

Horace - surely the 'only a small town' tag is used as a source of pride by Boro fans rather than a negative.

Middlesbrough is a small town which has produced a relatively 'big' and succesful football club, something we are all proud of. I think most Boro fans are aware that there are many towns and cities in England with far far less succesful football teams than Boro.

However the fact is the size of the fan base ultimately determines how much cash the club has and therefore limits the success it can achieve.

Posted by: Nigel  | February 20, 2008 10:53 AM

Si wrote...

Dave you're right you're not really an eejit, and you are entitled to your opinion, no offence taken hopefully.

If you watch the Boro on TV it does show a completely different picture to live games. You won't get a feel for what Rocky does off the ball and the hard work he puts in.

I think people just expect him to be spectacular because he's Brazillian, he's more like Dunga, gets through loads of ground work and is then reliable with the ball. He rarely wastes a pass (have a look for his OPTA stats) and in his first couple of seasons he suffered more than most due to a complete lack of mobility throughout the team.

Now with Downing, Tuncay, Arca, O'Neill, Ali, Mido and Alves we have movement in abundance and his performances have improved in line with this.

So much so I can't remember his last bad game. I also see all home games and a fair few away games so I've seen enough for an informed opinion.

Posted by: Si  | February 20, 2008 11:05 AM

Billy wrote...

TB, the blog is fine as it is. If it ain't broke, etc...

What next, will the top 4 bloggers want their own special blog site just for themselves or howabout a global blog where they can join the top bloggers from Spain, Italy, etc?

Posted by: Billy  | February 20, 2008 11:17 AM

tim from sa wrote...

AV, don't change the blog i used to contribute to the old have your say which i still miss. I have used the forums very little since its inception and agree it is like a zoo.

Keep it up i enjoy reading and contributing and i see a lot of the old contributors are comming back

**AV writes: There is no intention of changing anything. It was just a suggestion from someone for a tweak.

Posted by: tim from sa  | February 20, 2008 11:24 AM

Benny Brown wrote...

Gary O'Neill, slipped my mind Clive. Maybe Gary for Boeteng.

I have just watched Liverpool struggle against a ten man Inter Milan team in the Euro Cup. What struck me about the Liverpool tactics against a retreating ten man team was that they retained possession for long periods but went nowhere.

They passed the ball between players without creating any holes in their opponents defense, this was because they passed the ball before drawing an opponent out of position. You do not need great skills to play in this manner.

The difficulty is getting close to your opponent and releasing the ball at close quarters so that the man directly in front of you is now out of position when you pass the ball into an open space for a team mate to run on to and do the same to his marker.

This might sound like telling Grand Ma how to suck eggs, but it was apparent this Liverpool team lacked direction in the basics of football. No wonder they are looking to get rid of their Manager.

If Liverpool play in this manner against the Boro next week, I can see us getting three points as Gareth will exploit this obvious weakness.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | February 20, 2008 11:57 AM

Billy wrote...

Further to Nigel's comments re the 'small town'.

I've taken a flag with 'small town in yorkshire' all over the place outside of England. The reason I took to it was simply because the gormless geordies always sang it at us as if it was somekind of insult rather than a statement of fact (depending on when you were born): Middlesbrough IS a small town in Yorkshire - and I for one am proud that it is.

This certainly doesn't mean that I and many others (the club included) have a small town outlook. It's just something that I identify with, I certainly don't identify myself with this smoggy cobblers that some people seem to like, but each to their own, don't read too much into things...

Posted by: Billy  | February 20, 2008 12:41 PM

Si wrote...

To the other Si:

I'm all for Rocky's presence in the team. On his good days he's very valuable to us. We should keep him for longer than the end of the season (luckily, we have first option to extend his contract).

Then there's Wheater. Still we hear he's getting closer and closer to signing, but still he hasn't signed, and Hyypia is clearly past his best at Liverpool...

Anyone else a little concerned? Especially with the Liverpool game coming up this weekend.

Posted by: Si  | February 20, 2008 1:28 PM

Scott Jackson wrote...

Why are people still persisting with the idea of putting Aliadiere on the right and O'Neil in the middle?

Did they not watch the Fulham game? Aliadiere was clearly the most dangerous player on the pitch and scored. GS changed it round, 4-5-1 and Aliadiere disappears while O'Neil is also very poor.

There's a lot more to being a winger than simply being able to "run fast". JA doesn't have the power in his play to get good delivery into the box at all.

Plus, why break up the right hand side partnership between O'Neil and Young, which has been better this season than any other season in the last 4/5.

Posted by: Scott Jackson  | February 20, 2008 2:20 PM

Richard wrote...

Werdermouth:

A well-positioned and well-reasoned post, that last one on Gam£39. Nicely argued. But.........

you make the point, "Football exists in a symbiotic relationship with TV in the same way horse racing and bookmakers exist."

I don’t think so!

That description of the relationship between TV and football is surely NOT the same as bookies and horse-racing?

Football and bookmakers already have a similar relationship!

Symbiosis requires that the relationship benefits, in sustainable balance, both organisms.

Perhaps it’s in the definition of “Football� as one of the organisms that my objection lies to your comparison or claim, that the relationship between TV networks and “Football� is, by nature, symbiotic.

Some aspects, components, sub-organisms, organs even, call them what you like, are undoubtedly benefiting big-time from the relationship. But there are others which are being eroded or disadvantaged. And unless we are prepared at some time in the future to redefine what we call “Football� then we’d better remain alert to the changes which this, in my view, pseudo-symbiotic relationship is likely to produce. Like Gam£ 39.

I take a more cynical view of this relationship than you clearly do.

I veer towards intrinsically “Parasitic� rather than symbiotic. Parasites can exhibit symbiotic characteristics (resulting in AV’s turkey’s voting for Christmas)! But once the parasite has extracted what it needs from the donor organism, it will move on to the next, to sustain its growth!

Or as Anthony says, it has used pseudo-symbiotic characteristics to gain position but is really that Trojan Horse which once inside and influential, is going to change the fundamental nature of the host organism. And it doesn’t care one jot what debris it leaves in its wake. It has no conscience.

Clearly, some entities and people are like that. But personally, I prefer a cleaner world!

(Damn! I spoilt it at the end! And I was working SO hard to stay emotionally detached!)

Posted by: Richard  | February 20, 2008 2:30 PM

gt wrote...

About these lists of wealthy clubs - I wouldnt look to deep into them. A few years ago Sampdoria where in the top 10,a year later they where bankrupt and then relagated,

**AV writes: The lists also show Manchester United as the first or second richest whereas in fact they made a record £60m loss this year because all the revenue is going straight into servicing the massive debt loaded on the club as part of the Glazer's leveraged takeover.

Posted by: gt  | February 20, 2008 3:16 PM

Big mets..Boro 4 ever!! wrote...

Rocky is like eating a packet of Revels you just don't know what you are gonna get next, one minute he is beating a couple of players and hitting a 30yrd pass to a team mates feet. The next he fluffs a easy 4yrd square pass...very strange!!

I do think however that he has improved 10 fold on last season...but still not fully convinced....and without having a go the lad is dreadful at dead balls, why does he keep taking them??...he must do something in training.

Anyhow jury still out (after 2 seasons) so I'm not gonna give the lad stick as he is now a translator for the Fonz.."happy days"..sorry poor pun ha.

Posted by: Big mets..Boro 4 ever!!  | February 20, 2008 5:28 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Si, Dave Connor and the other Si

When Rochemback first joined us, and for most of last season , my brother used to call him the Brazilian from Hartlepool, as his talent was obviously much more Pool than Flamengo. (With apologies to Pool fans.)

However, this season he's been a revelation. I never thought I would see the day when Rocky was played as the main ball-winner / holding midfielder, but it's happened.

He clearly merits his place against Boat and the Catt. Sheff Utd wasn't his kind of game - he certainly couldn't spray his passes around - but boy did he get stuck in! Reminded me of Jamie Pollock!

So whereas I once wanted shot of him, I've changed my mind. He is for me Boro's most improved player, and I can see him feeding loads of delicious through balls to Alves' feet.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | February 20, 2008 7:09 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

Richard

Without straying too much into a biological argument – I still think the relationship between TV and football is symbiotic as parasites do not generally offer any benefit to the host.

Most football clubs now receive the majority of their income from TV deals – plus other sponsorship deals have increased primarily due to the TV exposure the companies gain.

In addition, TV companies like Sky and more recently Setanta gain either a majority or substantial percentage of their income from football related subscriptions.

So take away the TV money and many clubs would quickly go under – Take away football and subscription TV companies would no longer be in profit.

And I can't agree with the idea that TV companies are in it for the short-term before moving on to the next sport - Football is the biggest sport on the planet and they know it.

Professional football today is a Darwinian struggle of the survival of the fittest – opting out from the commercial side of the game would leave teams like Boro bouncing along between League 1 and 2.

Of course that doesn’t mean I agree with a money-driven system of football – it just means I realise that the genie is not going back into the bottle any time soon and each club must choose to either compete or lay down and die.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | February 20, 2008 7:29 PM

Harry Emerson wrote...

Soccer/Football is as you all know big business and will dictate where to it will go.Global it has to be, just a matter of when not if.Here in Oz it will be welcomed by many I have converted lots of locals here in Adelaide into Boro fans.Liverpool on their recent form pose no threat to us on Sat.Then Shef Utd Cardiff and yes another final beckons.

Posted by: Harry Emerson  | February 21, 2008 11:53 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Clive

Allowing for a little bit of poetic licence this is part of an email sent to my scouse colleague

'If Rochemback and Arca play well we may torture your back four with pace and movement, if they play like they can do they will be trying dragbacks and flicks just outside the box - ours -and we will get battered.'

That I think sums up the problem with the Latin Likely Lads. At their best they really drive the team forward but when they are bad they are a real liability.

They are a sort of poor mans Paul Scholes without real top notch players around them, they certainly went to the same school for tackling. Sadly they didnt include ahootung on the curriculum.

Boat of course simplifies things, his passes tend to go straight to the opposition without any need for fancy footwork. Cat has better distribution than boat but also has a more 'energetic' approach to tackling.

I am predicting a Lawro prediction of 2-0 to Liverpool.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 21, 2008 11:58 AM

jiffy wrote...

The wheeze of the Premier League to play a 39th game every season on foreign soil was dressed up as a diplomatic mission to sell our game abroad, but the key word here is "sell''. Having seen gridiron American football attract a full house to Wembley, the elite of English football dreamed of exporting their product in turn.

The Saudis are keen - so long as each agme features at least one of Man utd, Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea, and preferably 2. What they really want is a kind of football Harlem globetrotters - and who ever recalls the opposition from those games.

Actually it was a regular supporting cast masquerading under a different fictitious club name every so-called "game".

Football in England is approaching another transformation. The biggest clubs are now so big as to render continued competition increasingly less relevant. Previously charismatic events (the FA Cup, the Carling Cup) are becoming less and less important. The Champions' League is becoming, de facto, more important than any national contest. And ordinary fans are being priced out of their seats by a passionless corporate crew.

But history shows that dominant sports do not always remain dominant if they overlook the interests of their spectators.

Fifa are only in charge of world football because they say they are, and their concerns are driven by self-interest. The same is true, on lesser scales, of Uefa and the FA. None of these bodies seems likely to act in the best interest of ordinary fans so long as the money and the votes keep rolling in.

As regards Game39 the FA can be bought off simply by the PL agreeing a sweetener to pay for the National Coaching Centre which the FA are struggling to fund now over the soaring costs of replacing Wembley.

And what do the main clubs of the world care about FIFA and national "governing bodies"? Already the clubs bicker about compensation for players going off to play for their countries and threaten to boycott international games and even FIFA competitions as major as the equivalents of our Euro championships in other continents.

Kerry Packer showed with his cricket circus that when it came to the crunch TV would sponsor any breakaway which featured the leading world players and leave the self-proclaimed governing bodies high and dry. The Premier League itself was set up in the face of FA opposition and initial sanction or recognise the breakaway from the Football League.

The big clubs leaving their national bodies for a World series style competition of their own making played wherever will pay to host them is inevitable. Its just a case of when.

Posted by: jiffy  | February 21, 2008 12:00 PM

Captaun K wrote...

yes rocky has improved greatly this season, largely due to the fact he is being played in his best position finally, so to me its no surprise case of square pegs and that

think he won either portuguese player of the season or sporting player of the season two years in a row in his current position.

Posted by: Captaun K  | February 21, 2008 12:11 PM

mark j wrote...

Scott Jackson , I was one of the people saying Aliadierre was not a striker and should be played on the right wing but I have changed my tune and think his along with Tuncay's and Downing's pace is very effective.

I also agree about the great developing partnership between O'Neil and Young down the right you mentioned.

What with Rochenbach's improving form its just a case of what might have been this season ,if those injuries had not disjointed the team so much then who knows.

Apart from the bun fight at Bramall Lane we have been playing some great football which was diluted slightly by Tuncays hamstring against Blackburn.

Looking forward to the Liverpool game!

Posted by: mark j  | February 21, 2008 12:20 PM

robin mitton wrote...

TO ALL BORO FAITHFUL

Although our website does not yet reflect that we're in Paris nevertheless that is where we are. I'd be delighted to buy any BORO fan a drink should any of you ever happen to be visitng the city.

Cheers!

Robin Mitton

www.englishfornations.com
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS Ltd

**AV writes: That will rebound on you when we get PSG in the UEFA Cup next year.

Posted by: robin mitton  | February 21, 2008 1:09 PM

Nick Hill wrote...

Dave Conner, yes we are all entitled to our opinions and that why i didnt speak down to you in any way. I am just making my point on Rocky.

You arent a big fan of Rocky, thats fine but dont you think calling him one of our worst players is a bit harsh?

As many others has backed up how good and how valuable he has been this season. As someone said, on Sunday it wasnt a game where rocky could have time on the ball because of the quick closing down of sheff Utd (arca struggled a lot more with this) but Rocky got stuck in and it meant we werent overrun in midfield.

I have always liked him because of the talents that he clearly had, now he is showing them a lot more consistently, the amount of ground he covers in the game is great, he is a workhorse but has the ability to open teams up aswell. Heck even his name gets chanted at nearly every game now.

Posted by: Nick Hill  | February 21, 2008 3:23 PM

robin mitton wrote...

Dear AV,

Better open a bar as well then just in case!

Posted by: robin mitton  | February 21, 2008 6:27 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

Robin Mitton , you say potato I say potato!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | February 21, 2008 6:54 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Ian

I like your e-mail to the Scousers! Let's hope the real Arca and Rocky turn up, as this game is our biggest challenge for some time. I have great confidence in the back-four, and I can see them holding Liverpool, but we'll need Arca and Rocky to keep a tight rein on Gerrard and Mascherano. They might be too busy holding the midfield to be very creative this weekend!

Personally I'd have a go at Liverpool, cos they won't be expecting it. I would certainly go 442, with Aliadiere and Mido up front, and Tuncay and Alves on the bench to provide extra fire-power and pace if we need it.

No sign of Lawro's predictions yet, Ian. You're right, he will definitely go for a home win. But it's always a joy to see just what a crap tipster he is!

By the way, ahootung wasn't on our school curriculum either! (Sorry!)

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | February 21, 2008 11:08 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Clive

Liking Boro wasnt on Mr Pickersgill's curriculum at school either. The whole rugby squad got locked in the gym and lambasted for asking if we could play in the morning so we could watch Boro in the afternoon.

As for spelling mistakes, 40 years ago I couldnt spell enjinear now I is one, though no longer doing it for a living.

There is a danger in wishing the real Rocky and Arca turn up because nobody knows which is which.

And Lawro's prediction was 2-0 to Liverpool though predicting that wasnt difficult. If we were practising attacking corners at Rockcliffe he would still predict us to lose 2-0.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | February 22, 2008 9:13 AM

Mick wrote...

A question for Robin Mitton:

Since you are based in France, do you do courses in French (or any other language for that matter, other than the obvious) for people like me who are already fluent in English?

Just a thought, as most people in this country haven't a clue about foreign languages. Quite a few aren't very good at English! I think it would be worth putting some courses on for this.

There is a chance I may work abroad in the future, so knowledge of a foreign language would be of benefit to me (if I ever do work abroad).

Posted by: Mick  | February 22, 2008 9:38 AM

Cunners wrote...

From the BBC Gossip column:

Keeper Mark Schwarzer is set to leave Middlesbrough in the summer after 11 years at the Riverside. (Sun)

Any truth in this gossip? Is he under contract? Lets hope Southgate is already on the case for a replacement, I'd love to see Steve Harper, though for some reason he seems content to earn his thousands sitting on the bench every week.

**AV writes: Schwarzer is out of contract in the summer. The club made an offer some time ago but Schwarzer wants a three year deal and the club only offered two so it was rejected. Then there was some ritual dancing. As far as I am aware that offer is still on the table.

Posted by: Cunners &n