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Pros And Cons of Woodgate Exit.

Posted by on January 25, 2008 1:38 PM | 

WOODGATE out for £8m - if it were to happen - will represent shrewd business. If selling a player from an area where the team is now very well endowed is used to secure the striker the team is crying out for then it is not just financially cute but it is also a strategic master-stroke.

Boro are not Chelsea of Manchester United. We can't spend money we don't have on the likes of Alves without being ready to make a few timely adjustments elsewhere. And unlike Chelsea we can't afford our top earner to spend more time on the treatment table than on the pitch.

The club have given Woody permission to talk to Spurs and Newcastle are loitering with intent - as revealed on this blog and in the Gazette a few days ago - and itis now a strong possibility he will soon be leaving.

Some will cry that it is madness to sell last term's Player of the Year, an instant hero who carried the terrace kudos of having seen the Boro play Port Vale at Hartlepool, the cultured splash of quality that steadied the ship and arguably saved us from relegation last term.

Personally I think if Boro can make a profit now on a player who has done the job and could not easily depreciate in value if his injuries and dip in form continue then they should do it. If it helps continue the on-going fine-tuning of a team that is not far from being a good one by bringing in the much needed hitman, better still. And if two teams are interested and it develops into an auction that pushes the price up - a situation we are only to well aware of but are usuallly on the other side of the counter - well *rubs hands gleefully* bring it on.

Woodgate on his day is the best defender in the country. He has the poise and positional instinct to snuff out danger and the balance and timing to make almost every tackle without breaking sweat. On his day he looks every inch the international defender that Real Madrid splashed out £13.4m on. But his day doesn't come around so often anymore.

Yes he missed pre-season and in fitness terms has never really caught up but his quality should shine through. It did last year. In fact, at times this season the little niggles that everyone predicted have left him well short of his best and h has looked fallible and vulnerable and against Birmingham and Aston Villa, for example, he looked, well, ordinary.

Meanwhile the steady emergence of Redcar Rock David Wheater and the return to full fitness of Robert Huth, the Berlin Wall, plus the drive and physicality of Emanuel Pogatetz has meant that with everyone fit there is no guarantee that he is even first choice. Last season he was the first name on every observer's team sheet. Can the same be said right now? That left boss Gareth Southgate with a fuse fizzing political hand grenade that needs scooping out of the dressing room quickly before it explodes.

Woodgate's slipping down the dressing room pecking order was underlined at Portsmouth when with George Boateng dropped the Boro boy was not handed the captain's armband. Having been the automatic and popular choice as stand-in skipper last term those Kremlinologists amongst us who read the Riverside smoke signals closely would have raised eyebrows at Julio Arca running out with the armband.

Of course, the deal is far from done - there are personal tersm to be thrashed out and the problematic issue of a stringent medical - but in the twilight world of the modern market a "bid" is usually the last part of the murky bargaining process where traditionally it was the first.
Woodgate being given permission by Boro to talk to Spurs is a surefire indication that Boro are ready to sell and now he will probably leave with indecent haste.

Some observations:

Johnny Woodgate Is A Mag? Spurs may have made the first move but there appears to be genuine interest from Newcastle too and they are in urgent need of plugging their leaky defence. Keegan is a confirmed fan of Woodgate and gave him his England debut. He remains popular at Sid James and is still mates with the likes of Shoal Ameobi plus he could comfortable commute from Teesside. Maybe Viduka could pick him up at the Bluebell.

The nightmare scenario is a Newcastle debut in the derby on Tyneside. Stand by for the muted sound of booing from high above the snowline while the gloating Keeganistas chant "Johnny Woodgate is a Mag, he hates Smoggies."

His alternative of course is Spurs, the Geordies of London. There a quick trip to Wembley beckons in the Carling Cup final - he was injured for Boro's games with Northampton and Spurs so isn't cup tied - and, who knows, maybe he could team up with Stewy Downing in a Men Behaving Badly flat-share scenario. *shudder*

New Challenge? Maybe a move would be good for Woody giving him a fresh challenge. When he arrived at Boro he was presented with a whole slate of motivational targets. He needed to prove to himself that he had put his injury nightmare behind him and he coudl still play at the top level. He was playing for a contract, either at Madrid, at Boro or at another Premier League club. And he was playing to get back in the England frame.

Now he has ticked all those boxes. What is his motivation this season? A cynic may say he arrived as a Real player but is now a Boro player. If he can not be galvanised by the challenges that such a mundane reality presents then maybe it is best for him to move.

"A Club Matching My Ambitions". Maybe Woody feels that the club he finds himself at now is not the one that was in the brochure. Since his arrival he has seen Viduka and Yakubu nip through the out door. He spent most of last season chanting a mantra of "you need to keep good players to sign good players" and most took that to mean that he would sign if he thought the Duke was staying and some big name players were coming in too.

It is possible that he is frustrated, disillusioned and feels let down at the club's new economic reality. The club could put a powerful argument to counter that but sometimes logic doesn't hold sway. He is after all a Teessider and so shares our historic burden of gloomy fatalism.

Move Over, Wheater Coming Through. Woodgate's exit opens the door for the new Mogga to take centre-stage. Wheater is out of contract in the summer and must be tied down. He is a dyed in the wool Teessider and is 'proper made up' just to be playing for Boro - for now. But if he finds himself on the bench behind a patchy glamour signing, if he gets frustrarted at not playing then maybe, just maybe, he might get his head turned and get itchy feet. Taking one senior centre-back out of the equation may persuade him to sign a long term deal.

Selling For Fun And Profit. A profit, even a small one, on Woody would show a refreshing new hard-nosed aspect of Boro. For the club to flourish they need to get the economics right, as we have discussed endlessly. In the past the club have been rightly criticised for failing to cash in on players when they reach their optimum value, that is the point when market price is higher than purchase cost and before length of contract and performance levels combine to force any future transfer income.

What has cost the club dearly in recent years has been the damaging trend to allow contracts to run down so that expensive players end up leaving for no return: Maccarone (£8.15m to buy), Viduka (£4.5m), Ehiogu (£8m), Nemeth (£2.5m), Job (£2m), Juninho (£4m) have all left in recent years for nothing. That means not only is there no income but also massive new investment is needed in those positions which leaves the team short in other areas.

But a club of Boro economic profile can't afford that. All of those players should have been sold 18 months previously, even for only a few million, and the money invested in a rolling programme of new capital investment.

Boro need to develop a model that is sustainable and inevitably that means accepting that if there is a major investment players must be sold before their contract is up, especially those who are big name players and who can represent a healthy profit. Yakubu is an example of an excellent aggressive intervention in the market.

Woodgate may not seem to be in the same vein but if Boro have had an excellent year out of him. If they now calculate his performances will tail off they must think about what his retail value will be this time next year. If they believe it will drop off significantly then that is a compelling reason to sell now. And that formula applies to every single one of them.

Comments (35)

John wrote...

It's fantastic business. Woody was an ec=xcellent stop gap but we now have Wheater, Pog and Huth all looking at the centre back positions.

Let Woody go, pocket the cash and get a striker in. In any case, I think we've seen the best that we're likely to get out of him.

Posted by: John  | January 25, 2008 3:43 PM

gt wrote...

i can see the pros and cons of any transfer of Woody, however if Alves doesnt turn out to be the next coming of Romario ,and to be honest we dont know a great deal about him. yes ,he has scored goals the last couple of years in another league (can i hear Cisse, Kuyt, Veronin, Dong gook),but nothing before that.

I hope the woody money enhances our chance of buying 2 strikers now, even if its a young project,like the kid at Luton

Posted by: gt  | January 25, 2008 4:03 PM

Scott Duncan wrote...

I think if we can get £9M+ for him we should take it. He played exceptionally well last year for us, but that was when he was playing for his contract, and/or putting himself in the shop window for us or others to take him back home to England full time.

Now he has his contract, all of those old niggling injuries seem to be reappearing, funny that. Perhaps we should of given him a pay as you play contract!

When he has played this season he has been shown that all those years of injuries are finally catching up with him! Players of average premiership ability have made him look quite ordinary.

The Gate was a defender, a quality one at that, and he will know when players are not going to be able to cut it any longer. I think if it didnt happen in January, then it would of happened in the summer.

Whether he goes to The Skunks or Spurs, or anyone else for that matter, does not bother me whatsoever. I say sell him to whoever puts in the highest bid!

We don't need any extra cover in that area with Wheats, Huth, Poggy and Riggott already giving adequate support.

It gives The Gate the opportunity to do what he said he would, by getting us to play more attacking football. If this £9M, or whatever the fee is, goes straight back into developing the attacking portion of our team, then he may be getting close to achieving that.

Maybe Alves wont be the only new player arriving at The Riverside this January?

We could also do with casting off some dead wood. Whilst I think that Mendi could still do a job for us, he obviously isnt going to be given a chance by GS, so we should let him go. Also, get rid of that goal less, headless chicken. He is just a waste of a squad number!!

Posted by: Scott Duncan  | January 25, 2008 4:22 PM

Another John wrote...

Looking at the various factors then it is probably a good time to sell Woody. However, I am starting to feel like we are a selling club. Woody was right to say 'to attract good players you already need good players' ...

Not sure how good our scouts are but it was frustrating to watch people like, Wilhelmson, Koumas and the like be bought for smallish fees by similar clubs to ourselves.

Andy Van der Meyde is available from Everton for next to nothing and he is a proven international and was excvellent for Inter Milan??? Why are we not trying to sign players like these???

When we have so many decent players coming through from our youth system surely our scouts should be passing the manager good leads like these???

One but can hope and pray that we wake up and smell the coffee soon... Although being a boro supporter I remain pessimistic :D

Posted by: Another John  | January 25, 2008 4:46 PM

David Morrison wrote...

Excellent article AV, I totally concur with the reasons to sell and it seems a shrewd bit of business.

I allways had a feeling that he signed last year as a favour and the contract he signed would be blighted with clauses and selling fees.

No doubt he was fantastic last season and without him who knows where would be now. If we can get 8 million on last years performances and watch in interest as how many games he plays from now till the end of the season i reckon it is money well taken.

We as boro fnas wish him all the best and he can leave with an ambition fulfilled that only us locals would ever dream of.

Lets get wheater signed and Alves tied down and it will be a good transfer window for us. Id stil like us to try for a right winger and let O'Neil roam in the centre.

Also, i think southgates stock is rising every week and that he is showing a grit and determination that he will make the decisions and that no one player is bigger than the team. well done sg and long may it continue.

come on boro!!!!!!!

Posted by: David Morrison  | January 25, 2008 5:40 PM

Hiro wrote...

if woodgate is to go to tottenham, EXCHANGE WITH DEFOE!!!!! it can be an exchange + cash for us!

Plz Southgate do it or with martins if he is to go to newcastle.

Ain't that right AV?

Posted by: Hiro  | January 25, 2008 7:11 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Hi AV,

if I can start with the positives...

I totally agree with your analysis of the club and the way in which it needs to conduct business in order for the club to continue to try to prosper given the fact that Steve Gibson is at the helm and the majority of fans don't want to go for the billionaire investor option instead.

Based upon this I have absolutely no problem with that analysis because as you say we are not dollared up ad infinitum and so have to work in the most intelligent way.

However, where I find this article fails to hit the nail on the head is here.

" What has cost the club dearly in recent years has been the damaging trend to allow contracts to run down so that expensive players end up leaving for no return: "

How is it that if you can clearly see this that Steve Gibson cannot ? Who is to blame here AV for what you clearly see as... " costing the club dearly " ? Surely someone must be at fault for this? Why haven't we gotten rid of them ?

Now I'm no fan of GS and Coops, but people in here are convinced that they are the right combination to bring the club forwards, and they may well be right and I may well be wrong, as this remains to be seen.

But if we accept that they are the right people, then it naturally follows that we absolutely must give them all the help that we can give them and so this means making sure that the things going on behind the scenes are done to the very highest possible standard.

Based on your own analysis it is clear that this isn't the case, which is very worrying to say the least.

So I just don't understand how we can just allow these big and costly errors to continue and to go unchallenged.

In any other walk of life people who made these sorts of costly misjudgements would have got the bullet, yet here it seems that this never happens.

Whilst this remains the case it's only natural to assume that these errors will continue and that we will continue to suffer as a result.

TB

**AV writes: Everything suggests that the club of late have assessed their performance over recent years and found some areas where they have fallen short and are starting to systematically address them. Isn't that a good thing?

When you have a business that plans investment and strategy four, five or more years ahead then a change in philosophy and practice will take time to filter through but I see enough signs to suggest that process is underway.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.


Posted by: tonyblack  | January 25, 2008 11:01 PM

Si wrote...

I have discussed this too on my own blog recently (in a post entitled - "Woody stay or Woody go?"), and came to the following conclusions:-

PROS

- Woody and Wheater have never really looked comfortable together (*cough* colliding to let in Liam Miller *cough*).

- Galactico who believes he has a divine right to a first team place because of his stock (England international, Champions League participant, one-time Real Madrid player) or local boy who's come good, who also enjoys scoring goals? I know which one I'd pick.

- Money to finance a potentially sharper attack, which should include Alves.

CONS

- Note that I said should. Alves hasn't signed yet, and he's not proven in the Premier League. We shouldn't make this sale then assume we're going to get Alves.

- As you said, Vic, there's the matter of Woody's medical...and Alves' medical, fee and work permit!

- If Woody WAS to go to Newcastle, could we deal with him and Viduka starring in a rejuvenated, possibly FA Cup winning side? Thought not.

- Losing one key player from last season's a misfortune. Losing three seems careless.

Saddest of all is that he's become another Mendieta... impressive on loan, disappointing when permanent.

PS Breaking news... he hasn't agreed terms with Spurs and wants to go to Newcastle. Possibly a convenience move, like Viduka's was, and definitely not the one we wanted either.

Still, it will continue Newcastle's disturbing habit of signing up Boro old boys (Geremi, Viduka, Pearson, Round, Barron... and possibly now Woody).

**AV writes: "Newcastle FA Cup winning side"? Are you sure about this bit?

Posted by: Si  | January 25, 2008 11:08 PM

HolgateEnder wrote...

If Woody was the player we all saw last season there is no way in the world Gate, Gibbo or anyone would sell him for football reasons or financial reasons whatever the price because he was proper class act.

The Woody we have seen this season though has been average. He has lost a yard or two, his positioning is out, tackling not as clean and he is no way near as good.

AV might know the stats but by my reckoning we are WORSE when he plays, more goals against and less points. Thats what matters, not past reputations.

For me it comes down to whether you think he can get back to where he was, discipline himself and get fit again and get his head together, and for me he can't do that. If Gate and Gibbo think the same thats good enough for me.

I don't want Woody to blow it because he is a Boro lad and I was chuffed to bits when he signed and he kept us up last year but I don't want Boro to be left with a worthless crock either.

**AV writes: You wouldn't believe how much I have cut out of this. Look, everyone, we can't deal in rumours on here no matter how close the friend who swears down dead they are true.

Boro is like a village full of fishwives when it comes to hot-housing lurid tales but frequency of telling does not give either credibility nor legal protection.

Posted by: HolgateEnder  | January 25, 2008 11:23 PM

BLT wrote...

You dont sell your best players. Not if you want to make progress you dont. What signal does it send out when you get shot of an England international with that pedigree? Especially to clubs you want to be competing with.

Viduka, Yakubu, now Woody... then Downing?It doesnt sound like Boro share my ambitions let alone Woody's

Posted by: BLT  | January 25, 2008 11:41 PM

chris wrote...

Ok i would have been against selling woody 4 months ago but we have now a star in the making...wheater who i think is going to be even better than woodgate.

He is young, scores goals and defends with passion, what more do we want? We spent 6 million on Huth...and now he is fit 18 months later and seems to be performing due to his need to go to the europeans....then we have maddog....great defender gives his heart for us!.

Riggot was good 2 seasons ago but i would let him go...and try please to get a left sided defender...or left back.Alvez is a good gamble....try get berbatov for that(10-11_)....he scores for fun and he is young...he can adapt but don't bet on him being here in a years time......

Posted by: chris  | January 26, 2008 12:45 AM

Neil (Baku) wrote...

As I posted on the previous thread, if the man ain't happy to be at Boro, for whatever reasons, then his performances suffer, the team suffers, the fans suffer. It's a lose-lose situation.

Therefore in terms of:

a) removing a potentially negative influence from the dressing room

b) getting more than our money back

c) making room on the wage bill to replace with a striker or two

It has to be good business, and we shouldn't let sentiment cloud the truth.

Woody is no fool, and his plan may have been to win a contract at Boro just to get him back in the public eye, back in the shop window. He wasn't going to do that sitting Real's reserves totally forgotten was he?

So he comes "home", gets fit, agrees his contract, the prodigal son. But he doesn't get the run of the Riverside, he's not a Mogga or a Willie, he isn't made captain, he doesn't get on with Southgate.....and on it goes.

All in all we've helped probably the best defender in the country to get back into the limelight, and good luck to him, but it is time to let go.

Posted by: Neil (Baku)  | January 26, 2008 5:28 AM

Danny wrote...

Well if Woodgate does move to Spurs or Newcastle i wish him good luck. He is a Boro lad through and through and a Boro fan.

If everyone is honest with themselves Woody hasn't been the revelation he was when he first came to Boro he has lost some pace and his positioning is questionable. Perhaps it is a good move for both Boro and Woodgate.

Now with the extra cash hopefully Southgate can bring in 2 strikers, 2 top strikers. Defoe would be the ideal choice as he has proven Premier League ability, but i believe he doesn't fancy a move to Boro.

So alongside Alves (fingers crossed!) someone like lanky Peter Crouch would be perfect. Good in the air and difficult to mark he would be the perfect foil for Alves.

Maybe today or tomorrow we will have a better idea on signings.

Posted by: Danny  | January 26, 2008 5:45 AM

Pat Mc (Dubai) wrote...

Woody? At the end of the day, everyone has a price whereby it is better for both parties to accept the situation, and in this case I am sure Boro have thought this one through on the same lines as AV’s rationale.

If Woody had been a regular this season, been the bedrock of the side, and his departure would leave a big hole in the defence, then clearly this wouldn’t suit Boro and I’m sure he wouldn’t be allowed to leave. If Woody does leave, I’m sure it will be with the thanks and respect of the fans.

Regarding the past performance of the club with respect to the “damaging trend to allow contracts to run down”
For TB to raise the question, “How is it that if you can clearly see this that Steve Gibson cannot?” this is naïve and shortsighted. Let’s give Steve Gibson more respect than that gentlemen. Of course he will clearly “see it”.

And after seeing it, he and his team will make a business decision on such a matter after carefully considering the facts. Decisions are rarely right or wrong. More like, some decisions produce better results than others.

Some of us will like the decision, others will not, but the fact remains, they have to be made whether popular or not. It is a poor manager/chairman who is afraid of making tough decisions.

The Viduka situation highlights my point. Without a doubt the club would have known that Viduka’s contract was to expire in the summer of 2007. I’m sure in the summer of 2006 the management would have considered the option of negotiating a new contract there and then.

However, Viduka had not delivered up to that point. He had not played well and had been injured for long periods. What if Boro had renewed his contract in 2006, at the supposedly 60,000 a week? How would Boro fans have responded to that? “Here we go again….another Boksic….Boro taken for a ride again….”.

The business decision at that point, not to renew his contract was surely correct. Then from February 2007, Viduka starts to perform, in order to put himself in the shop window. Performing for himself, not for the club or the fans. Good riddance.

To a lesser extent, and in different circumstances, Wheater’s contract would have also been considered last summer. But again, he hadn’t set the world alight, in order to deserve a new contract then. Now, in light of his rapid (and unforeseen?) progress, it’s paramount that this is addressed urgently, regardless of Woody staying or leaving. And of course Steve Gibson, and the club will see this.

AV’s point “All of those players should have been sold 18 months previously”. In my opinion, the club got themselves into a poor situation as a result of Boro’s greatest failing in recent years. The failing being, they paid too high wages where they were not deserved in many cases, to attract ‘star’ players to the football club.

Boro did try to sell those players 18 months prior, but effectively got stuck with ‘unsellable’ players because of the mega wages they were paying. We couldn’t even GIVE them away! And let’s face it, none of us, if we were in Ugo’s, Parlour’s, Mendy’s, Massimo’s shoes, would move on either it meant a 50% cut in wages. Hopefully they have sorted the wage structure to realistic levels.

So, back to the Woody situation. If it makes business and football sense, then let a player go. On the same basis, bring a player in. Surely that is the very essence of managing a football club isn’t it?

And please….don’t anyone doubt that Steve Gibson doesn’t clearly see what is going on with the club, from a business perspective.

Where he and MFC did lose it, and it has been admirably highlighted on this blog many times, with positive results I might add, is his loss of contact with the fans.

It seems to me that Boro have gone though a period where the “marriage” has been on rocky ground. Where reality has kicked in. Where the club has come down from cloud nine. Where harsh lessons have been learned by all.

This blog, and the excellent views of AV and true Boro fans (very much including TB!!) has contributed hugely to the realisation that all was not well at MFC.

Let’s hope we are all better for it and Boro will now kick on to become the established and permanent top 10 side, a level that we should have achieved four or five years ago.

Posted by: Pat Mc (Dubai)  | January 26, 2008 5:54 AM

Tarek wrote...

Exchange woody with defoe. We already have good defensive cover. By adding alvez and exchanging woodgate for defoe, i think we will strong enforcements amd cover all over the field.

Posted by: Tarek  | January 26, 2008 7:26 AM

tim from sa wrote...

Woody has been great for us but yes its time to go and good luck to him. Look at Vids warming the bench and those injuries are all there i think Keegen will get rid of him as soon as he can.

On the Alves story what worries me is that no other premier clubs are in for him why.

Posted by: tim from sa  | January 26, 2008 7:41 AM

Bob wrote...

I don't agree with the "you don't sell your best players" sentiment I've read on this and previous blogs.

Football is a trading game, clubs have to decide when is the right time to switch their assets around - all clubs do this, some more successfully than others.

Look at Arsenal and Manchester United, neither have been afraid to move star players on (Anelka and more recently Henry, Stam, Beckham).

Selling Woodgate for a profit would be good business. He's 28 (I think?) and already he is a one game a week player, the risk of him spending big portions of the next few seasons on the treatment table is high. And as you point out, we have excellent cover in this position.

I'm starting to like GS and MFC's transfer and contract dealings. Despite the struggle for goals this season, I think the Yakubu business was excellent.

Unlike most on this blog, I was happy to see Viduka go (wage demands too high and another who is likely to spend more time on the treatment table than the pitch - he's already showing this at Newcastle). Most of the new signings are working out well (not all, but that's football).

Finally, I'd be reasonably comfortable with no incoming signings this month. Alves looks an expensive risk to me (Lita would at least be a cheaper one). I know there is a need for goals, but even without a new striker I think we will stay up comfortably this year.

Mido will add a bit of precision up front for the second half of the season, and a better short term option would be to play Wheater up front for maybe 8-10 games with Pogi at the back. That would mix things up a bit enough to secure us the necessary points.

There will be better deals to be had in the summer.

Posted by: Bob  | January 26, 2008 7:50 AM

Roobefrover wrote...

Woody has not had such a good season agreed. But....that does not mean that he will not get back to his best.

Otherwise why are Spurs and the barcodes still interested in buying him? It would be a big blow to Boro fans, especially as he is a local lad. If Downing were to go aswell it would be a severe blow to the fans.

Its all very well buying Alves (should that farce ever end) but what if he turns out to fire blanks? He has a track record of unsettling clubs and reminds me of Ravanelli - ok if he scores as many goals as the White Feather then I will be chuffed.

However, I suspect that it won't be long before he will want a move to a bigger club, if he is successful, and is that good long-term planning for our club? Perhaps, if we make a profit. Its a gamble and it had better work or I for one will be a very angry fan.

I trust SG and GS so I guess I will go with whatever they decide but I will be apprehensive.

Posted by: Roobefrover  | January 26, 2008 8:58 AM

tonyblack wrote...

**AV writes: Everything suggests that the club of late have assessed their performance over recent years and found some areas where they have fallen short and are starting to systematically address them. Isn't that a good thing?

When you have a business that plans investment and strategy four, five or more years ahead then a change in philosophy and practice will take time to filter through but I see enough signs to suggest that process is underway.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. "

Absolutely a very good thing AV, I merely make the point that the person / people who have fallen short are replaced with new people less likely to make these mistakes.

I have long called for a strengthening of ALL areas of the club and feel that this is one of those areas that needs looking at so to ensure that the model you refer to which seems to suggest is our only chance of a decent and sustained future is not put at risk by people out of their deapth behind the scenes.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 26, 2008 9:10 AM

mark j wrote...

AV, Have Celtic stolen Hutchinson off us for nowt?

**AV writes: I think they have offered a pre-contract deal to the Boro reserves hitman.

Posted by: mark j  | January 26, 2008 10:44 AM

David Morrison wrote...

Well here we are agian boro never ever do things the easy way.

It has emerged today that highly rated striker ben hutchinson has signed a pre contract with celtic.

AV has written on several occassions that boro are looking to build a club that is highly involved in bringing home grown talent through the ranks and then looking to sell them on at the peak of there performances and market value.

In hutchinson it shows a great weakness in this clubs structure that we cant tie players down to long term contracts or renew contracts before they end.

We have several players at the moment that are coming to the end of contracts, schwarzer, wheater, downing, rochemback, boateng yet we dont seem to be actively encouraging these to re-sign.

wheater has become a cult figure this season and his performances consistant and impressive yet he has less than six months on his contract and we are bumbling around saying a contract was offered some time ago. well if it was offered sum time ago why isnt it signed?same with downing, why is that not signed?

yes these players might want big wages but for our club to have the business mentaliity of selling players at peak performances they must be tied down to long contracts for boro to be able to use it as a bargaining chip in any offer.

whos to say man utd havnt looked at wheater and thought hmmm the next gary pallister. how many trophies did he win with us again? all this for free as well they must be laughing and rubbing there hands together.

boro are there own worst enemy, chasing around a player that has 2 contracts that dosnt know where he wants to play while we have all this young talent with contracts running down and being snapped up for pitence.

get it sorted and get it sorted now otherwise the club will suffer and the fans will never forgive you for that.

**AV writes: What sort o contract would you want them to offer Hutchinson? £10k a week? £5k? But Boro are looking to bring in Alves plus hopefully one more striker. Then you have Mido, Tuncay, Aliadiere and probably Craddock ahead of him in the pecking order for a start up front.

Where is the business sense in offering big wages and long contract for a player who is the seventh choice striker and ideally will never play for the first team again?

And if you are not ready to offer big wages

Posted by: David Morrison  | January 26, 2008 10:45 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Meanwhile Ben Hutchinson leaves for Celtic after Boro's contract offer not good enough.

Shows what a balancing act it is keeping players happy.

Looking forward to todays match live on TV. Odd living 20 odd miles from Mansfield and not going but season ticket holders rightly get priority.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 26, 2008 10:57 AM

John Powls wrote...

AV

You're right on Woody going. I'm far less concerned about that than I would be about Stewie doing the same.

Selling your top - if not just about only - bullet maker when you're trying to sign a 'top gun' striker to fire them is a special sort of madness.

But this is MFC we're talking about and we managed to start this season by shipping out our top two goalscorers and replacing them with people for whom cow need not be scared of when they are wielding banjos.

Not surprisingly, we're second bottom scorers in the Prem, just above Derby and locked in a relegation battle that it will be hard to get out of.

So, MFC specialise in special sorts of madness.

We must secure Alves - or, for that money, someone as good or better - and maybe a second, British based, striker now that we seem to have let Hutchinson go to Celtic. Another contract debacle by The Count, if true.

Jason Roberts would be my pick.

If the Woody money comes through then we should also be thinking about Darren Fletcher from ManUre or Gera from The Baggies to strengthen the right half of our midfield and give us the option for O'Neil to come inside one and play the box to box role.

My only concern abut Woody going - particularly if we can't drown out the publicity on that by a couple or more of spectacular signings - is that we do get labelled and seen as a 'selling club'.

That's another route to the trapdoor that leads to The Championship and keeps you there.

Posted by: John Powls  | January 26, 2008 11:00 AM

Chachie wrote...

If Woodgate were a model professional then he wouldn't be sold. There is more going on behind the scenes than people realise & Southgate knows its best business for him & the club to move on.

Posted by: Chachie  | January 26, 2008 1:11 PM

Tarek wrote...

I think it would be an excellent decission to propose an exchange of defoe for woodgate as i think we already have strong cover in defence. The additon of Defoe and Alves will leave the squad with very srong cover everywhere!!

Posted by: Tarek  | January 26, 2008 3:31 PM

Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono) wrote...

"Newcastle FA Cup winning side"? Are you sure about this bit?"

Look at the record books and you will find their name on it even if was yonks ago, but you will not find Middlesbrough's name on the list of winners of any major trophy at any time, ever. Just saying like!

Posted by: Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono)  | January 26, 2008 3:43 PM

Orange Dave wrote...

Woody for 8m seems a good bit of business, and if it means we keep Downing then even better - any more news on this AV?

I have a sneaking suspicion Woodys performances may improve closer to last season when his motivation returns at his new club, but on his current form isn't a big miss for us.

Today's match underlined the need for cover at left back, with Arca looking dreadful in that position - beaten every time, and constantly wandering into midfield, only to be shouted at by a very agitated Huth.

At least we're through, and the one positive from the match - Aliadiere looked Great as a right winger - beating men and an end product, our best player today.

I personally would love to see Oneill moved inside with Arca, Aliadiere and Downing on the wings, Mr New Striker up front with Tuncay playing off him - I reckon this would give us more pace going forwards, and a midfield capable of battling, keeping the ball, and putting a killer pass in.

With the rest of our midfielders, I never know which Rocky is going to turn up, will his pass be great or terrible? Boateng will run his guts out but generally be completely incapable of a forward pass, (even when it's the easier option) and Cattermole hasn't advanced from the unpolished scrapper. Shawky looked good when given a chance, and would be the one I'd keep in an overstocked department.

Let's hope for another decent draw for the next round.

Posted by: Orange Dave  | January 26, 2008 3:50 PM

mark j wrote...

Dong gook may have scored a tap in for our victory against the underdogs mansfeild but he showed a lack of strength to play upfront and NEVER held the ball up, even an unfit Mido held the ball up and had a bit of influence to our play!

Aliadierre had a great game causing problems on the right and as he is not a striker could easily play right to let Oneil inside midfeild.

We need another left back ,Return of Frank Quadrue?

Rochembach , Luke Young,Huth, Wheater and Arca had a good game and showed some quality, Cattermole is a timebomb waiting to go off and Adam Johnson was not quite buzzing today either.

Downing proved his worth to us big time with some grat passing and hold up play and would have scored if their skipper hadnt beaten him to it.

Schwartz even came out and punched clear a few times!
The BBC never got the giant killing they were expecting .Unlucky Son,Carlton Palmer- your punditry was pure drivel mate!Keep taking those happy pills.


*AV writes: What is it with Boro fans wanting to bring players back. Franck was poor in his last season here, poor at Fulham and is currently being poor at Birmingham. Why the hell bring him back now?

Posted by: mark j  | January 26, 2008 4:12 PM

Si wrote...

Re: that bit about Newcastle winning the FA Cup; well, OK, they are playing Arsenal, but stranger things have happened (like Sunderland winning it in '73), and if this transfer goes ahead they will have a tighter defence, to add to the momentum gained from having their "Messiah" in charge...

Oh... speaking of strange things happening, I believe 'Pool are struggling against the non-leaguers.

Posted by: Si  | January 26, 2008 4:16 PM

Richard wrote...

Hutchinson's transfer to Celtic is being reported as though it's a result of Boro dragging their heals on new player contract negotiations.

Whilst I haven't seen anything very special in Hutchinson other than a willingness to run, the fact that he's been brought off the bench several times this season implies that the manager and coaching staff have seen sufficient in him to warrant giving him a chance.

Granted, the absence of top-class striking talent has also meant that at times, the pressure's been on to enable him to make the bench, at least.

However, the concerning part of this is that if Boro management valued him and saw him as one for the future, then why didn't they negotiate a new contract with him to keep him at the club?

The Bosman ruling and a plentiful supply of predatory clubs means that every club needs to pay strong attention to their existing staff contract positions. It seems that time and again, Boro's policy in this regard is questionable - at least on the basis of information available to the public.

Whilst we can't expect that we get to know every detail of what goes on at the club, I think it's important for the club to realise that when there is an expectation of "growth", "improvement" and "ambition" around, to have seemingly repeated examples of feet being dragged on playing staff contract issues - whether they're issues or not -rather sends out contradictory messages.

I think there's room for improvement in Boro's approach to either the management of the contracts, or their management of released information concerning player contracts.

The explanations of Woodgate's position were reasonable and most people can understand why the club is taking the position it has. But Hutchinson seems to have bowled us a curved ball!

On Woodgate's position, I have it from "a source close to the player" that he's pretty much on his way (I think, to Newcastle). That was the message at about 12:15pm this afternoon, when he was boarding a north-bound train from Darlington Station!

**AV writes: Yes, he has been talking to Newcastle today.

Posted by: Richard  | January 26, 2008 4:21 PM

Nigel wrote...

I agree pretty much with what AV has written, except the implication there is a need to sell in order to buy a striker.

For weeks it has been reported that Boro would not need to sell in order to buy both Alves & Fred. I know thereare lots of smoke and mirrors during a transfer window but as late as yesterday GS was stating he didnt need to sell.

If that isnt true why say it, normally a fudge answers a difficult question. I hope that the situation is simply that we have a golden opportunity to bank 8 million, which will be used to strengthen further come the summer. Maybe a keeper and left back and another striker.

There are I believe other reasons behind selling Woody, his form has dipped, reports he's not happy. GS subing him on a number of occasions, it was an eye brow raiser when he wasnt made captain. So it looks like things simply havent worked out and its time for a parting of the ways.

Effectively by Wheater coming through the academy system has given the club the opportunity to raise 8 million which is a major plus, I hope it us used to further stregnthen the team and not just to buy Alves.

A sound result today, Mansfield made it tough and had their moments but we held it together, just. Surely we are due a home draw in the next round?

Posted by: Nigel  | January 26, 2008 5:34 PM

lauren wrote...

I think we should sell woody now while we can get a good price for him. we have a lot of good centre backs so we could use the money to buy Alves. i haven't heard anything on Alves today - hope we are still trying to get him!

AV Did Ben Hutchinson go for free?

**AV writes: He is out of contract in the summer so should be a free. When players under 24 leave in those circumstances usually a club is entitled to compensation for developing them but as he did not come through the academy I'm not sure if that applies in this case.

Posted by: lauren  | January 26, 2008 7:47 PM

frm wrote...

This is maybe the strongest all round, best balanced squad I can remember, when they are fit, and could be on the verge of getting stronger.

How many more disenchanted players will we have ? Players are not happy sitting around at Boro, and if Woodgate has become fed up (over time) it is understandable, because Boro have given a very good impression of going the wrong way, fast, until recently.

Boro have had plagues of injuries, and need the squad. If they don't need the money ( and I believe very little of what comes out of the office) then it would be best if Woodgate stayed. But they are on a knife edge, so the only true test will be, as always, results.

Alves is 'untried', but a current Brazil international ! Can there be more like him out there ? Only 5 days to go.

And to stir up the hornets' nest, what a pleasure to watch a true footballer today - Rochembach. Not great opponents, but awful conditions; he made it look comfortable. Give him the money, and lets see him around for a while, and a few more like him.

Posted by: frm  | January 27, 2008 12:35 AM

albert smith wrote...

AV, is there nothing mfc can do about the rants of Downing's agent? I find it almost impossible not to want to give him a glasgow kiss.

**AV writes: Players are entitled to representation but it always staggers me that they choose the most expensive option of often completely unqualified agents rather than the fixed fee route of specialist lawyers or the PFA.

Posted by: albert smith  | January 29, 2008 2:05 PM

Benny Brown wrote...

Just watched Woodgate play an outstanding game for Tottenham against Everton and for my money was man of the match.

If he can stay fit I predict he will be a permanent fixture in the New England set up and stay in the team for many years to come. You could see how he marshalled the Spurs defence he is a class act. If he continues in this vein Boro will have lost a great player and Spurs gained a very valuable and cheap at the price player and future captain,

That being said if Alves proves his goal scoring at the Boro has he has in Holland we may come out of the deal with a very good result.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | January 30, 2008 10:36 PM

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