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Inching Towards Ra-Ra Revival?

Posted by on January 7, 2008 9:30 PM | 

I TALKED one of my regulars down from the ledge and sent him away upbeat last week, quite a feat as he one of life's confirmed pessimists. After a Boro defeat the Batphone at Gazette Towers is red hot with angst-ridden readers looking to unload and we scribes are expected to combine our main role of 'telling it how it is' with touchy-feely counselling skills and a chipped shoulder to cry on. It is like a cynical Samaritans.

The would-be jumper is exiled in funny speaking Brumshire and gleans his information from wild websites and manic message boards and pieces it together through the jaundiced prism of the Midlands editions of the national press and the relentless black propaganda of Villa, City and Baggies fans. He wanted reassurance after getting the distinct impression Boro were torn apart by Everton, the axe was imminent for Southgate and that the cash-strapped club were on the verge of an implosion that would be sparked by the inevitable defeat at Bristol City. I delivered a positive pro-Gate polemic to calm his fears and give hope for a brighter future.

Then on Saturday I went against the tide of bleak chicken run certainty, the advice of Sky Sports Saturday's poisonous panel of pundits and the weight of our cultural history and backed Boro to win on the fixed odds. Oh no! I'm turning into a ra-ra!

Admittedly a few months ago I was worried. Not so much the twitchy black mania of those convinced that relegation was a foregone conclusion, more despondent that the season would drift into yet another water-treading grind, that the crowd would continue to shrink and retreat into indifference and that the growing estrangement between fans and club would leave us dysfunctional, demoralised and directionless. The trumpeted new era of crisp movement was not forthcoming, a mono-paced midfield wasn't getting forward to fill the vacuum where the guaranteed goal-getter should be, the team was wildly inconsistent not only between games but within them and with on-going injuries and some influential players looking flat there were few bright signs to suggest that things would click into place any time soon.

But since the darkest hour - a week when a brittle Boro were dumped out of the League Cup at Spurs then turned over at Everton and the season looked to have peaked too early with a pro-celebrity side winning a charity seven-a-side - things have been inching slowly towards a more coherent and confident style that has hinted heavily that there are better things to come.

Don't get me wrong. The past six or eight weeks are far from a Great Leap Forward. Tentative steps maybe. It is hard to seriously sell being perma-locked into lower mid-table, a string of draws against some fellow strugglers and smash-and-grab raids at the worst Premiership side since Sunderland's 15 pointers and a Pompey side seemingly legally obliged not to score at home as a New Golden Age. Especially as without the stunning Riverside result against Arsenal the points and performance return would feel a whole lot less satisfying.

But there are signs of something bubbling beneath the surface. Boro have shown in flashes that they have all the ingredients bar one to be a polished side that can entertain serious hopes of breaking through the glass ceiling into the top half.

There is a steel that wasn't there in the early part of the season and the gritty display against the calculated physicality of route one Bolton (and the robust return of the Mad Dog) showed that this side could mix it when they had to. Coming from behind to snatch points against Spurs and Reading revealed a rediscovered resilience. The comprehensive defeat of previously unbeaten Arsenal showed what the team was capable of at full strength and full pace. And the victories at Portsmouth and Bristol City, bouncing back from defeat to win as '"underdogs" show a much needed mental strength to carry them through tricky games where in the past they may have buckled.

Meanwhile the emergence of hero-in-waiting Tuncay has been a massive lift for flagging fans crying out for inspiration and imagination and a huge creative boost to a side that had been one dimensional and predictable. And it is nice to have someone up front that can give David Wheater and Stewie Downing a battle for the Golden Boot.

And Gareth Southgate has continued to develop too. Despite the relentless pressure of patchy results, the cat-calls from jittery and sometimes openly hostile sections of the crowd and the blood-lust of a malicious media machine who annointed him as the next sack race casualty he has remained calm, articulate and honest and has stuck by his principles on the pitch. Maybe he has a leeway that other bosses may not have and his position is buoyed by the long term support of Steve Gibson - even if Boro go down - but he has picked up other plaudits too. Lee Dixon revealed on Match of the Day this week that Arsene Wenger has spoken privately in glowing terms of the Boro boss as a great dug-out prospect, and not just because Boro battered the Frenchman's culture club. Wenger does not get many of these calls wrong.

And there are encouraging signs off the pitch too that the club are doing CPR on their flagging relationship with their supporters. Votes on goal celebration music and a shirt design may seem trivial tinkering around the edges but after years of defiant ivory tower isolation the political significance of this Glasnost should not be under-estimated.

New personnel, new ideas and a new determination to re-engage with the fans and the community are starting to take a grip at a club who so often in the past have gone unarmed into the battle for hearts and minds. It will be a tough task to win the crowd back, not just in numbers but also in terms of their buying into a vision of where the club are, where they are at and how they will get there, but unless the leadership rise to that challenge - and the signs are they are ready to give it their best shot - then there is no future. At a club this size if we are not all pulling together we can never make progress.

Results have improved too. Looking over the last six games - yes an arbitrary number but the standard European unit of measurement of 'one formbook' - Boro have won three and lost three. Hmmm. Nine points from six games. Alright it is not European form but it if far from relegation form and far from the bleak return in the opening stage of the campaign.

Of course there have been stinging set-backs. Defeats at Birmingham and at home to West Ham hurt and losing to Everton was a bitter blow too, not least because it allowed our former heavyweight hitman the chance to gloat. But, despite what my misinformed Midlands mate and many of those who booed on the whistle may think, Boro were far from outplayed by ambitious Everton. In fact they were by far the better side throughout the game: there was some exquisite fluid movement, Downing had one cleared off the line, Tuncay had a strong shout for a penalty and Gary O'Neil brought a brilliant save from Tim Howard before under-fire Everton made their two chances count in a sickening late double blow.

Which brings us to the 'bar one.' What let Boro down against Everton and in a string of other games this term has been the glaring inability to turn passing, possession and potential into points. Not scoring when they are on top has left them vulnerable to sides who are that bit more clinical in front of goal, sides who have players up front who know where the goal is.

But we all know that. Southgate knows it, Gibson knows it and the players know it too. Boro are two quality strikers away from being a team that can really hurt the opposition. It is no good looking back and saying we had two - Yak went on a go-slow to secure his exit and Viduka wanted whatever we offered plus more. We need to look forward.

We may well already have one of those two strikers in Mido but we probably won't see it this season. It may be that Boro don't sign the other in the January window and we will need to bite the bullet and wait until the summer. A few more points between now and the sash slamming shut may well persuade the boss that we can get through to the end of the season comfortably and he may opt to get the right man later rather than a stop gap now.

But that should not be seen as a failure or a lack of ambition, more a steely resolve not to be rushed into a compromise that in the long run will be waste of time and money. If a quality striker is available now - and in January that is a rarity - then naturally Boro must go for them and if a cost effective loan marksman that can do a job is up for grabs we need them - but we must avoid any hysterical urges to spend for the sake of it. Boro are close to being a good side and it is of paramount importance that we get the next crucial signing right rather than early.


Comments (74)

tonyblack wrote...

Needless to say that many people won't like whatever I have to say, but let me just say that although I still remain to be convinced that I hope that you're right absolutely right AV, as nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be proved wrong. I've said this many, many times before.

" And Gareth Southgate has continued to develop too... "

Hmmm. Ok. You say he's developed and so let's take that as being the case. But I still will not accept that the club should have taken that risk in the first place.

But let's put that to one side and imagine a scenario where one day he's amazing, as this could quite well be what happens in the future.

" Maybe he has a leeway that other bosses may not have and his position is buoyed by the long term support of Steve Gibson - even if Boro go down... "

If Gibson is saying that he is willing to risk this just so that he can then give Gareth the time to prove his worth, so that he can they declare " I told you so ", then I'm afraid to say that I find this a rather perverse way of running a football club, especially at such a high level.

" Lee Dixon revealed on Match of the Day this week that Arsene Wenger has spoken privately in glowing terms of the Boro boss as a great dug-out prospect... "

That's a truly great compliment and I mean that in all sincerity. But it's easy for Wenger to say this given the fact that this " prospect " may well emerge only AFTER we either go down or drift along the lower levels of this league, or when he's learned his trade at the Boro.

We all know that the club is skint and for the Chairman himslef to state that he's willing to stick with him, even if we go down, just smacks of absolute arrogance to me.

Would we recover from such a huge financial loss AV ? Personally I think it would take rather a long time, especially given how tough the Championship is to get out of.

This is my main concern and I think that it's a very valid one given that amongst all the great noises that you rightly point out that are being made by the club AV, that after Liverpool and Blackburn we could find ourselves back in the bottom three with then a must win game against Wigan.

This for me is the reality of the situation and all else at the moment is just that, great noises.

Even those who think I'm off my nuts and an eternal pessimist and moaner must surely concede to this present reality.

I'll be back after these two games AV and we will revisit this subject then. I'm not interested in being right, as some would like to paint me as being, I just don't see the picture being as rosy as the one that you have just painted, that's all, and I just cannot see GS and Coops as being the right people for this job and I think that Gibson in his current manifestation is also well past his sell by date.

" buoyed by the long term support of Steve Gibson - even if Boro go down... "

I just really don't like the sound of this. These are not wise or prudent words to use. But then this is just my own personal opinion.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 8, 2008 12:22 AM

Danny wrote...

AV, i appreciate your optimism and yes 'pound for pound' individual Boro players are as good as any player in the top 6 teams. Woodgate, Huth, Young, O'Neil, Downing, Arca, Mido, Tuncay are quality and the younger players Wheater and Johnson are probably better than any players their age in the Premier League - but i beg the question...why can't they perform consistantly week in, week out?????

They are highly paid professionals supposedly at the peak of fitness and skill yet some games they look tired and can't string 2 passes together.

As Boro fans we are always optomistic at the start of every season only to be ready to 'jump from the ledge' by January as is the case again.

So, here we go again, January transfer window and a further ray of hope. Lets hope we get a decent striker, the team finally gels and stays injury free (Woodgate, Mido and Huth) and perhaps....just perhaps we can start looking up the table.

If not, i see in my crystal ball lots of empty seats at the Riverside and a team ready to crumble.

Love the blog, some good posters and knowledgable supporters - keep up the good work!

Posted by: Danny  | January 8, 2008 6:59 AM

Benny Brown wrote...

If we fail to sign a new striker in the January window how about a stop gap by giving Huth the opportunity to play as the point man with Tuncay playing off him?

I am sure Huth knows how to score goals and has a terrific shot when given the opportunity, Huth would also cause opposing defences plenty of angst with ability in the air.

Mido and Tuncay would obviously be the first choice as twin strikers so let us hope Mido comes through his first game at Billingham this mid week.

Posted by: Benny Brown  | January 8, 2008 7:40 AM

Mick wrote...

Happy New Year, AV.

I wrote this message on 18th September on your "West Ham wobble..." blog:

"I've said to many people that we should have signed a consistant goalscorer during the transfer window. I wanted us to sign Alfonso Alves, whose record speaks for itself (34 goals in 31 games for Heerenveen).

People have mentioned how we went down playing attractive football when we had Ravanelli, but at least then we had a consistant goalscorer in Ravanelli.

Over the last 10 - 20 years, how many "right place, right time" strikers have we had (Slaven excepted)? The last true finisher we have had was probably Marco Branca!

We never seem to have anybody at the club who sees the value in buying a player like this. The amount of times we've missed on players of this type is infuriating. Players like this are worth every penny. They can do nothing all game, but will regularly change the game in your favour with clinical finishing.

Look at the difference Bernie Slaven, Uwe Fuchs, Marco Branca and Alun Armstrong made to our promotion campaigns of the past. Without them, we would not have been promoted.

Players like this make a huge difference. A player like any of the ones I've just mentioned would make a huge difference to our team right now. We should have bought one in the transfer window".

This was one of the replies that message got:

"Branca was a good player no doubt, but for you to say we should have bought such a player in the Summer is a little premature surely?

Mido looks good and Tuncay looks like a class act, the fact that he missed three good chances in one game doesn't make him a duff. He will now get a run in the team and by the New Year we will have an idea of his scoring ability."

I was aware that we needed a proven goalscorer even then, but, I didn't seem to have much agreement with other posts.

A proven goalscorer would make a huge difference to this team. Someone who is a clinical finisher, who can finish the numerous chances that we seem to squander game in, game out.

Thankyou for stating this, AV.

I believe Alfonso Alves is still available and willing to move. I do hope GS or someone else in the club with the power to influence is reading this. If they are, please don't go for Ameobi. Please, not another striker with a poor goals to games ratio. That's all we seem to sign.

Posted by: Mick  | January 8, 2008 8:47 AM

Never Happy wrote...

AV - 'get the next crucial signing right rather than early'

You are right in saying this, however it may be a case of get the right signing now before its to late.

Also a big name signing might help show that the club does still have ambition

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 8, 2008 9:06 AM

chris wrote...

A fair and level headed description of the situation i think vic.....although the optimism regarding GS may well be true but will take far too long for most of the Boro faithful.I still consider his appointment 2 wasted years treading water at best when it was the time to move forward.

Regarding the team...yes in all but striking positions we seem to now be balanced and have quality on paper. But as with all problems this will be the hardest to solve as the most high profile position generally costs more to fill.

The best go to big sides to bench warm so nobody else can buy them!! We had the chance in the summer to buy Alvez from the netherlands for 5 million...we now are told by the papers we have offered 12 million....then city have come in with 14 million.....duh!!

In the summer i remember an interview with him saying boro come and get me but i regret now it's too late and i do not like the look of the others on offer......lets just hope ... becouse although wheater and downing have scored a few goals they will not score 15 which is what we need!!

Posted by: chris  | January 8, 2008 9:16 AM

Nigel wrote...

AV - Spot on, not much I can add to that.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2008 10:05 AM

dave wrote...

Any truth in the Alves rumours that we have bid £12m for him?

**AV writes: I'm not sure it has got as far as a concrete bid yet. Boro are certainly in contact with his club but his agent is trying to create an auction to drive the price up and I don't think Boro play games like that any more.

Posted by: dave  | January 8, 2008 10:14 AM

Neil M wrote...

Good blog AV. I agree that Boro are very close to being a good team and we are just two or maybe three players short.

The first XI when fit is far better than anything in the bottom half. The problem is that the next bunch, the bench, is very weak and is as bad as anything in the bottom half. That means we are always just a few injuries or suspensions away from a crisis.

We are also trying to play good football despite being down in the dogfight. A lot of the panic merchants wanted to start going long and packing the midfield but I for one am glad Southgate stuck to trying to pass it. Having good habits will pay off later.

What you don't say, and a thing that I think is the main reason for optimism, is that the age of the team has been reduced. Looking back to the Carling Cup/UEFA Cup era all the key players were over 30 - Gate, Boat, Ugo, Viduka, JFH, Schwarzer etc - and you can't build anything like that.

Now we have a good young side that will get better with experience and can be shaped over the next five years.

Now now we need a good young striker, a younger keeper and an expereinced (but still younger) replacement for Boateng and we have a bright future.

Posted by: Neil M  | January 8, 2008 10:15 AM

Tees Exile wrote...

Good points AV but counseling patience won't silence the mob. The Boro crowd have been spoiled rotten by Cardiff, Europe and splashing out on Boksic, Viduka and Yakubu and have lost touch with the reality that you write about.

Some of the deluded fools think if Boro don't beat Chelsea to Anelka that it shows a lack of ambition. They want success now and to hell with the cost.

They think if we don't spend £20m in January Gibbo should go. Boro fans are turning into Geordies. Tony "warm seats" Black must think we are "the eighth biggest club in the world" or something.

Boro's biggest problem is dragging the supporters back into the real world, damping the wildest demands of the glory now crew, encouraging the chicken run that we are not all going to die, exciting the apathetic. Building slowly but surely won't do that.

Posted by: Tees Exile  | January 8, 2008 10:26 AM

HolgateEnder wrote...

now youve done it AV. you have crossed tony black by refusing to agree that southgate is the antichrist and that gibbo should go.

as we speak slim will be putting the finishing touches to a 20,000 word essay FULL OF BITS IN CAPITALS.

good blog though. we were never as bad as the knicker-wetters thought. some people need to get a bit of perspective

Posted by: HolgateEnder  | January 8, 2008 10:33 AM

Chris D wrote...

AV - Your comment “..under-fire Everton made their two chances count in a sickening late double blow.� highlights a problem which, by the end of the season, could be more damaging to Boro than the goal scoring deficiency – our goalkeeper!!

I have come away from a number of games this season feeling I had seen an unimpressive and inferior opposition take all 3 points after having only a couple of shots on target and scoring every time. I have wondered if that was just my own blinkered view of the game or fact. I decided to check the stats for the games over Xmas (sad I know!!!) and found that it was more fact than just my own view.

Mr Schwarzer faced 9 shots on target in those 4 games – let 7 of them in, Boro lost 3 out of the 4 games – 3 points from a possible 12! In 2 of the games, (Birmingham and Everton), every shot on target hit the net.

In contrast, the 2 games in which Ross Turnbull took over he faced 7 shots on target and only let 2 of them in – we were unbeaten in both games, 4 points from a possible 6.

Schwarzer has been an asset over the years – Okay so he has quite rightly had his critics in the crowd due to his weak areas - handling in the air, kicking and his occasional “Calamity James� moments, but he has always made up for that by being a shot stopper.

Now his “shot stopping� has dried up and all we are left with are his weaknesses. The only times he has kept a clean sheet in recent weeks has been down to the very poor performance of the opposing strikers (ie. Derby – only 2 PL goals at home since October, Portsmouth – not scored at home since September!!)

Yes, we have a problem scoring that must be addressed but in the mean time, far more cheaply than solving that problem, we need to drop Schwarzer in favour of Turnbull. If we had a more reliable goalkeeper so far we may well have had a chance to salvage a couple more points from draws or scraped one more single goal victory – valuable extra points for the end of the season.

**AV writes: I agree that the position needs addressing urgently. In truth, it should have been done last summer (if not before that).

Posted by: Chris D  | January 8, 2008 10:45 AM

James wrote...

One other glaring thing the boro lack is a goalkeeper.

This season there have been a significant number of games where we have had many more chances than the oppposition yet lost, yes the lack of striker is one reason but the fact that our keeper never makes saves must be another.

We can't be far off double figures this season where the opposition's shots on target equals their goals. Has Southgate not noticed how past it Schwarzer is? He's a sad shadow of what he was 5 years ago.

Posted by: James  | January 8, 2008 10:52 AM

dave wrote...

Av, his agent does seem a nasty piece of work. Not sure it is the sort of player and agent we want involved with mfc anymore.

Didn't Alves go on strike earlier in the season because h didn't get his way? He might do something similar at boro and cause problems. A lot of money to risk on him. I would only pay £6m for him with more dependant on how many goals he scores.

Posted by: dave  | January 8, 2008 11:00 AM

Rob wrote...

Am I missing something here? We are 3 points off a relegation position.Spurs, Bolton, Reading and even Wigan are picking up points.We still seem to conceed more goals than we should.Stories about certain players wanting out continue.Our home form is terrible and we have difficult away fixtures to come.

The signing of a decent striker is without doubt a necessity.This could help us steer away from the choppy waters we continue to languish in.

Here's hoping.....

Posted by: Rob  | January 8, 2008 11:19 AM

richardw wrote...

AV, I agree wholeheartedly.

I said at the end of last season we needed athletic quick players with a good touch and GS bought us Aiadiere, O'Neil and Tuncay. Now most people would agree that these players fit that bill so I can hardly complain.

I also like the style of football GS is trying to play ,fast attacking passing and not givig the ball away. This has been shown by the fact that in the majority off games we have dominated possession, no mean feat for a team in the bottom 6.

Having said that GS buys the right players and wants them to play the right way it still remains to be seen if he can get them playing near there max week in week out.

Only time will tell (and a forward) but as for the crowds ,numbers, and happiness, ive said it before, start winning and they will come. Everything else is a smoke screen

Posted by: richardw  | January 8, 2008 12:26 PM

stevo wrote...

Signs of things on the up indeed. The team and pattern of play is certainly looking more solid. I sense the crowd slowly warming to the management.

If Boro sign a Brazilian who knows where the back of the net is - many of the current problems should vanish and who knows we might actually re-gain some forward momentum. Gates will increase (simply because of the samba factor) and league position should theoretically improve due to a higher goal scoring ratio.

The clubs status as the most glamorous of the unfashionable clubs in the Prem will be restored.
All problems solved (apart from the goal music)

Failing that, Defoe.

Posted by: stevo  | January 8, 2008 1:00 PM

Score Draw wrote...

Roadmap to Successful Season.

Phase 1
* Release Schwarzer
* Get 'German Jens' from Arsenal.
* Get Roy Maackay from Feyenord.
* Swap Boateng - for Nugent (plus a sweetner)
* Introduce sensible ticket scheme (parent and child)

Phase 2 (next summer)

* Sell Rochemback
* Get Sidwell from Chelsea
* Get Gordon from relegated Sunderland
* Identify proven goal scorer and secure signature early.
* Do whatever it takes to get Tony McMahon fit

The goalscorer, I admit, is the most difficult but we need to be decisive and then give the chap a chance.

Posted by: Score Draw  | January 8, 2008 1:43 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

AV, I think you're right to believe that Boro have either turned the corner or are at the least in the process of going round it.

OK our start to the season was pretty well scuppered with the Yak going and not being replaced - along with injuries to key players and new signings being in and out of the side and taking time to settle in.

Southgate has had very few options available to him until recently and is still struggling to get a front line on the pitch.

Whether Boro can attract a top striker this month will determine if we can push on - I'm not sure if Alves will go for Boro over Man City if given the choice.

Perhaps if Downing's contract talks have stalled then a swap for Defoe may be on the cards. Another (lesser) possible swap deal may be Riggot for Shola?

Loan deals? What about a cheeky bid for an Arsenal reserve - Theo Walcott.

You are also right AV to point out our midfield just doesn't score enough goals - I think the Boat will go before the end of January as he's too one-dimensional.

And as regular posters cry out - A new keeper please! asap!

Posted by: Werdermouth  | January 8, 2008 2:05 PM

patrick steele wrote...

Tees Exile:
Cracking post which puts the attitude of the disaffected into neat perspective. Unfortunately this intolerant instant-gratification-or-nothing attitude also seems to be a characteristic of modern society.

Rob:
You seem to be missing the fact that the league is very tight between the bottom 8 above Derby. Time to have faith and get behind the team.

Posted by: patrick steele  | January 8, 2008 2:41 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Get Mido to invite Defoe to Boro for a parmo.

If GS is to be taken seriously as a coach, then surely he will remove his blinkers where Schwarzer is concerned.

The inuendo that Schwarzer has it in his contract that he plays when fit still remains, why else would he be chosen over Turnbull after the Reading and Arsenal games?

We need a goalkeeper or Schwarzer dropped, Sidwell or Taylor (I hoped Boro would have signed Sidwell from Reading) to replace the outgoing Boteng and a center forward.

I feel it may be Johnson who might be used to try and get Defoe. However I don't think that Defoe will leave London.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 8, 2008 2:59 PM

Nigel wrote...

Where are all the pessimists? When AV posted the above article I thought there would be howls of derision from the 'glass half empty mob', but barely a whisper...ssshhhhhhh.

A lot of good sense posted , Schwarzers days are numbered no doubt he'll be gone in the Summer, The Boat is clearly on his way, I can't really see how he can stay beyond January now.

All part of Southgate's strategy to build a young, hungry dynamic team. I just hope he doesn't forget to install Tony Black's 'warm seats' because then there will be no stopping us.

Given what Lee Dixon said about Arsene Wengers opinion on GS is I just hope Mr. Wengers judgement on a young manager is as good as it is for a young player because if it is we'll be in the top four in two or three seasons!!

I think what sets GS aside from the management crowd is that he is articulate, intelligent and strong willed. He isn't a 'jobs for the boys' man, he has no fear in dropping or selling his stars as we have seen and are seeing.

He made an interesting statement recently saying he believed a turn over of players was good for the club and that included sometimes moving on 'stars'.

We all know/believe Schwarzer and Boateng will go but maybe there will be a younger big name star leaving in the Summer............

AV - you commented that the new Boro PR push will take time to bear fruit, I think the atmosphere has changed already hasn't it?

One final question if we now have a Chief operating officer what does the chief exec. do?

**AV writes: My understanding is that KL is now overseeing the fooball, admin and legal side, dealing with contracts and the internal nuts and bolts club leaving the new boy to rationalise the commercial and public facing areas, bringing in new personnel where neccessary.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2008 3:45 PM

BLT wrote...

We've been here before haven't we? A few good results, a few good displays and suddenly all the ra-ras come out of the woodwork to say we are ready to make a push for Europe, something you have pointed out in the past yourself AV.

Let us not forget that we should not be where we are, rebuilding, consolidating or whatever you want to call it. We should be much higher because we should have pushed on after Eindhoven.

We are here because the club failed to take an historic opportunity. Now we are supposed to be greatful because they realised two years too late and have offered us a say on changing the kit?

I will take a lot more persuading than that sop that there has been any fundemental change in direction.

Posted by: BLT  | January 8, 2008 4:53 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Nigel wrote...

" All part of Southgate's strategy to build a young, hungry dynamic team. "

Really ?

Since he's been in charge from June 2006 he's won just one quarter of all games played.

Perhaps your dictionary has a different meaning for " hungry dynamic team ".

Oh sorry, I forgot, he's still learning so that's ok then.

" I just hope he doesn't forget to install Tony Black's 'warm seats' because then there will be no stopping us. "

Every top football club in the world has them in order to reduce injuries.

This alone should be reason enough to have them, but given our never ending list of injuries over many years, this should be even more reason.

Perhaps you have a better understanding.

Perhaps you think that white bands and email video's are more important at this moment in time.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 8, 2008 8:39 PM

mickemmo wrote...

BORO FANS KNOW THEIR FOOTBALL AND WE CAN SEE WHEN PLAYERS HAVE LOST INTEREST. LETS CASH IN ON BOATENG 2.5M,SCHWARZER 2.5M AND SAD TO SAY IT BUT DOWNING..HE`S ITCHING FOR A MOVE 10M+
WEVE SEEN ALREADY THE DAMAGE UNINTERESTED PLAYERS MAKE.
WE HAVE TO FACE THE FINANCIAL REALITIES GIBBO IS`NT GOING TO KEEP BANKROLLING FOREVER,SO LET`S GET TOP DOLLAR FOR STEWY... I STARTED WATCHING BORO IN 86 I IDOLISED EVERY PLAYER IN THAT TEAM , WHEN MAN UTD CAME FOR PALLY WE WISHED HIM WELL, WATCHED HIM GROW AND NEVER FORGOT HIM, AND 2.2 MILLION WAS A FAT FEE BACK THEN, WHAT IM SAYING IS ...BORO WON`T COLLAPSE. THE 10 YEAR 1 CLUB MEN ARE GONE,JINKY CAN FILL HIS BOOTS AND WE COULD AFFORD A SERIOUSLY HOT GOAL MACHINE WITH 12 M.

Posted by: mickemmo  | January 8, 2008 11:32 PM

Ken wrote...

I'm surprised not to read a peep in this blog about Defoe... Do Boro supporters rate him ?

At least what do YOU think about Defoe, AV ?

**AV writes: I think he is a good player but also a bling playuh. I'm not sure he would consider leaving London. Plus Spurs may demand Downing in return and that for me would be a non-starter.

Posted by: Ken  | January 9, 2008 1:29 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Just a few of the rumours going around in todays papers

Portsmouth manager Harry Redknapp wants to tie up a loan deal for unsettled Middlesbrough midfielder George Boateng before the weekend. (The Sun)

Swap him for Matt Taylor

Middlesbrough are considering offering winger Stewart Downing and Adam Johnson in a swap deal for Tottenham striker Jermain Defoe. (Daily Star)

Maybe Downing for Defoe or Johnson plus cash for Defoe. I agree with AV that Defoe won't want to leave London.

Boro are also considering a move for Newcastle's Shola Ameobi. (The Times)

I hope this is wrong.

Manchester City and Middlesbrough are set to move for Heerenveen's £15m-rated Brazilian striker Afonso Alves. (various)

No chance of us paying £15m for any player.

Southampton manager George Burley is set to pay £1m for Middlesbrough defender Andrew Davies. (various)

I thought Southampton were skint, but good deal if it can be done.

Looks like the rumour mill is going into overdrive.

**AV writes: There are some very busy agents out there.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 9, 2008 8:42 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Another even less likely story from the Mirror...

Gareth Southgate could turn to veteran Turkey star Hakan Sukur to boost Middlesbrough's flagging attack.

Galatasaray will let the legendary striker leave now after he declared he'd be off in the summer.

Boro feel Sukur, 36, could bring the best out of Tuncay, his successor as Turkey's golden boy.

Sukur had a brief spell at Blackburn and is keen to play in the Premier League again.

**AV writes: Suker's agent/lawyer has been ringing around trying to drum up interest in him.


Posted by: Never Happy  | January 9, 2008 9:00 AM

Danny wrote...

AV, the Rob Hulse rumours haven't gone away and have columm inches in the papers today again.

Please tell us that it is the usual tabloid speculation with no substance.

If Boro sign Hulse i really do believe we have reached an all-time low. Hulse is a very average Championship player at best and not someone we can hang our hat on to lift us up the league.

Defoe is the player to give us a much needed boost. Proven quality and a proven goalscorer. ₤10 million, well that would certainly be money well spent and a worthy long term investment. Ok he likes the nightlife, so we have the Tall Trees Hotel to satify him. Defoe is there for the taking, i hope Steve Gibson fights for his services.

Posted by: Danny  | January 9, 2008 9:05 AM

Billy wrote...

TB, I've got heated seats in my car, but they aren't doing much for my back at the moment. Shame because it's another 400+ mile round trip for the match on Saturday. The seats are grrrrreat for my Farmer Giles though!

Posted by: Billy  | January 9, 2008 10:24 AM

Nigel wrote...

TB - What we have is a difference of opinion, which as you have posted many times is 'allowed'.

The heated seats is just a bit of mickey taking on my part, its not meant to be personal. However do you not think that the real difference between Europe's top teams and Boro is tens of millions of pounds rather than warm seats for the subs?

I'd be interested to know the difference in injury rate between a club with heated seats and one without, do you have the facts?

My instinct is there is little difference, look at Chelsea they constantly have players out injured, Terry, Drogba, Lampard etc.Man Utd have had loads of injuries Neville, Rooney, Saha, Hargreaves etc.

My fundamental point is that the key to football management, in my opinion has nothing to do with technical stuff, but is basically about buying the right players, strong leadership and self belief.

The best managers in the world, Clough, Shankly, Wenger, Mourinho, Ferguson, Capello etc are/were big personalities with strong leadership skills, my understanding is that Clough rarely coached the team but he won two European cups with a mickey mouse team. I'm not sure what he would have said if someone told him his players needed warm seats to sit on!!

Posted by: Nigel  | January 9, 2008 10:51 AM

score Draw wrote...

Tony Black - Richard:

I'm actually suspicious of the gimmicks we see in football today. Look at Sam down the road, he's got an army of 'little helpers' - psychologists, nutritionists, prozone consultants, headsets etc. Lets face it he's got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin.

And the reason ? Because he insists on playing his new centre halves, Alan Smith instead of Viduka or Martins ......

My view is that management is not that complicated:

- You need to buy/select players who are skillful, fit and have character (O'Neil, Arca ... ...)

- You need to drop/sell those players who are not skilfull, fit or producing the goods (Schwarzer, Schwarzer, Schwarzer and Schwarzer )

The ability to identify skillful, fit and professional players is a very rare skill which few of us posess. Those that don't posess the skill supplement their inadequacy with gimmicks, prozone etc etc.

I would give my right arm to see what these coaches write on their pieces of paper during the game. I wonder what McLaren wrote during the Croatia game ?

"Note to self - Don't pick Lescott again"
"Note to self - What 's David James's mobile"
"Note to self - Why are they are attacking? They don't need to win ?"


Posted by: score Draw  | January 9, 2008 12:17 PM

Andy, the Hague wrote...

Can't be bothered with Mr B's diatribe tbh - more of the same with knobs on..

On the subject of the Antipodean Custodian, I couldn't agree more with Chris' sentiments. On the subject of Señor Alves, I seem to remember that the last time we expressed an interest there was likely to be a problem with a work permit. Has that gone away? Has he suddenly played 70% of Brazil's games or acquired a Cloggie passport?

Posted by: Andy, the Hague  | January 9, 2008 12:27 PM

jiffy wrote...

I have said before that i doubt Defoe would consider leaving London.

But the time is right for him to move with a new England manager and Defoe still with major ambitions for playing for England what he needs most of all is to play NOW - and in a club where he will play regularly.

That will be a bigger factor than where he lives and how high up the league that club is. He would even probably take a chance on a short-term move and look for bigger things in the summer just to get out on that pitch week in week out and raise his England profile which is currently dead and buried.

Trouble is Villa will be more attractive and the likes of Portsmouth need players and then again Chelsea are seriously short of firepower without Drogba even if they get Anelka so he is going to have options.

And West Ham always seem to be an option for London based forwards and even Fulham might make a desperate bid for survival.

**AV writes: And don't forget money-bags QPR....

Posted by: jiffy  | January 9, 2008 12:27 PM

score Draw wrote...

Wasn't it truly marvelous to see Gary O'Neil take responsibility for lining up the wall at free kicks? God bless him.

Gary lined up the wall, told Scwharzer were to stand and then went over to him and said "when he kicks it you try and stop it"

What next ? Maybe someone should swap positons/jersey's with Schwarzer for corners ??

You have to laugh. But I must say as much as I like Southgate I'll never fully trust his judgement because of his faith in the long streak.

Posted by: score Draw  | January 9, 2008 12:29 PM

'Ignorant' of boroland wrote...

mickemmo , Selling Downing is to get rid of one of our best players and the delivery of balls into the box for a striker when we get one. He is our joint top scorer too !

So he had a dip in performance levels a couple of months ago as did a few players after the balance of the side was disrupted after the visit of Sunderland and namely Higginbotham!

Water under the bridge now and I think we are two strikers short of looking pretty good.So much possession yet poor finishing have lost us games eg. Everton

Up the Boro, lets have Alaves and Sukur !!

Posted by: 'Ignorant' of boroland  | January 9, 2008 12:51 PM

Richard wrote...

Nigel:

".......do you not think that the real difference between Europe's top teams and Boro is tens of millions of pounds rather than warm seats for the subs?"

Yep!

And media support! Just look at the Sky Sports article linking Boro with Fred on today's website and you'll see what the likes of Boro have to overcome as well as (growing) financial disadvantage.

They played the same game with Yakubu throughout last summer and "helped" the process of his departure by keeping the whole thing boiling and helping to unsettle him.

No doubt the author will hide behind "I'm just reporting the facts" argument. But for as long as national and international media spin their reports in favour of high-population density located clubs (and why wouldn't they?), Boro and clubs like us have an additional enemy to overcome in their struggle to be Premier League competitive.

These groups/ consortia have far too much influence for it to be healthy. Because they're trying to shape the Premier League to suit their own ends of higher sales of media products and their international influence.

That's NOT sport! That's manipulative politics and hard-nosed commercialism.

And it's what I and many others object to in our national game.

Posted by: Richard  | January 9, 2008 12:52 PM

Dek wrote...

Hi Anthony.
My last post on Schwarzer (promise).

He doesn't need to try, because he knows he will play no matter what. He must be one of the highest paid players (Portsmouth couldn't afford his wages)so here's an idea to save money and valuable points - don't renew his contract.

Posted by: Dek  | January 9, 2008 1:53 PM

Score Draw wrote...

Anthony:

This is a Boro Blog isn't it ? Do you have to edit that particular phrase? Who amongst the Boro fans could find it offensive ?

It required some ingenuity to come up with that term only for you destroy its 'artistic form'. How else can I purge myself of the inner rage if you turn into 'Ned Flanders' and when reviewing the posts?

**AV writes: I didn't have to edit anything but I tend to take out that which I think is, or could be, deemed as gratuitiously and unneccessarily offensive.

If it is a jibe aimed at me or is between two posters who are having a bit of a ding-dong on equal ternms I usually let it go but when it is aimed st someone who can afford an expensive libel lawyer I tend to be more cautious.

Had he been Italian I would have applauded it as a clever and witty word play. As he is an Aussie it shifted the phrase towards tasteless. You will have to be either more subtle or try to slip things through early in the morning before I wake up.

Posted by: Score Draw  | January 9, 2008 2:13 PM

tonyblack wrote...

" Nigel:

" .......do you not think that the real difference between Europe's top teams and Boro is tens of millions of pounds rather than warm seats for the subs? "

Of course it is and I would never seek to suggest otherwise.

By your reasoning though and that of many others is that you always use this as an excuse not to do things that actually don't take much money and may well make a big differece, or even just " a " difference.

This is where we differ with our opinions and I'm sorry if my reply to you came across abruptly mate.

For me not having as much money as anyone else is simply not a good enough excuse for not doing things properly that we can afford but don't do, either because we don't know or are living in an age long since gone.

This is just one example, but there are many others I could give.

On the subject of the transfer market I would favour English players who really want to come and stay here and be part of a longer term furure, rather than expensive brazillians who no matter how good will only leave as soon as they've been in the shop window for a while and get one of the " big four " come knocking at their door.

If the clubs aim is to build, then lets build. I may not agree with the choice of GS and Coops but I would be far more impressed if they could show that they are in fact right and people like me are wrong.

So far I haven't yet seen any of this and whilst all the PR stuff and new ideas are great, for me personally they are what should be the icing on the cake and not what replaces it, which is where I personally feel we are at.

When you have a bust up with your captain, your leader on the damn pitch, what you don't do is sulk and leave him out of the picture. You either sort it out amicably or fine him a months wages and kick his backside onto the bench so as to show him who's the boss.

Yakubu ended his days here walking around the pitch like a zombie so we would get rid of him. Fine, he doesn't want to be here so he should get lost, but I would have made an example out of him first instead of letting him take the Mickey, as Keane did with two who were late for the bus at Sunderland. I would have fined him all the way to show him who was the boss.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is how I see it.

Ferguson did this with Beckham, but then Ferguson had the luxury of endless replacements where as we don't.

So let's buy people who really want to be here. Let's go buy cheaper players from our own Championship or that of other countries where coming here is a step up and one which offers them a great challenge and a great new experience.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 9, 2008 2:39 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Jiffy - I have a few mates who are West Ham fans and one place that Defoe will not be welcomed back to is Upton Park.

One other forward who Boro should bid for is Dean Ashton, he does not get on with Curbishley and could be available.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 9, 2008 2:42 PM

Score Draw wrote...

Anthony - "Gratuitously offensive" ? We are talking about the Boro here not the ballet at Covent Garden.

You ought to go to one of the clubs or pubs when they are showing the Boro game live via Arab TV. A libel lawyer would not be very useful.

**AV writes: Look, I have let you have your habitual pop at Schwarzer without any interference apart from the odd tweak even though such obviously personal attacks on a player make me a bit uncomfortable.

But there is a line and I get to draw it, and I draw it on the basis that the writ will land on my desk not yours.

It doesn't matter how you talk in a pub - I talk in the same tones there myself - but in legal and political terms this blog is a publication that is part of the Gazette stable and as such is subject to exactly the same boundaries determined by libel law, diplomacy and taste.

I don't mind fair comment, no matter how hard hitting, I don't mind searing criticism, cynical digs, frustrated broadsides, cruel leg pulling and the odd angry slap across a player's chops so long as I feel I can justify it if the editor, the club or the lawyers complain.

That's the way it has to be for this blog to flourish and others who have had things edited and complained have accepted my reasoning and judgement on this issue. I hope you can too.

Posted by: Score Draw  | January 9, 2008 4:17 PM

Andy wrote...

Jermaine Defore at the Boro; he's a dyed in the wool London boy. You will see my 6'7'',19 stone frame playing up front alongside Amy Winehouse, dressed as a leprechaun, before you see him in a Boro shirt.

Get real; HE AINT COMIN' SO STOP BEING BOVVERED!!!

Posted by: Andy  | January 9, 2008 5:32 PM

Nigel wrote...

Jermaine Defoe is a talented player with a bad attitude, he likes the bright lights, he doesn't want Boro and we don't want him.

TB - You say Keane got it right when two players turned up late for the bus, what he did was drop them from the squad, GS drops Boateng for not being in the right frame of mind which is the same thing and you criticise him for it! If you feel the need to criticise GS at least be constructive.

Score Draw - we all know Schwarzer's days are numbered he won't get offered a contract which he feels able to accept, you can relax!

Posted by: Nigel  | January 9, 2008 8:32 PM

Richard wrote...

Score Draw:

Just move on, mate.

I submitted a post a while ago to another of AV's blogs and that didn't appear at all - even in censored form. I presumed it was because it strayed a bit too far over the line for AV's "comfort" as the blog owner.

In retrospect, I'm pleased that he chose not to publish it as it would have been a bit controversial for many who post on here and may have caused unintended offense to many.

I used to post on the Gazette Boro Forum
and left there in disgust at the poor quality contributions and the apparent lack of mutual respect and childish "name-calling" that was allowed to persist there.

I'm wholeheartedly behind AV's attempts to maintain contribution standards here - even if it does mean that from time to time we miss out on a bit of black humour or an occasional imaginative Spoonerism.

Your contributions to debates on here have been great in the past. Don't get hung up on one that didn't make it past AV's censorship judgement. It is, after all, part of what he's paid for by the Gazette.


**************************************

On a more footballing note: I see Downing's reported as being allowed to leave if the price is right!

Mixed feelings about that. Anrew Johnson is NOT the finished article and is NOT a ready made replacement for Downing. Johnson reminds me of both Keith O'Neill, (who would bomb up the left wing on the overlap and put a cross into the 42nd row of the North Stand) and Tottenham's Aaron Lennon who can run and dribble but his final touches aren't "killer" enough.

However, if it's Gareth Southgate's judgement that the money raised will result in a better balanced side by providing the cash for a seriously productive striker, then I have to respect that. Gareth Southgate, rookie manager though he may be, knows more about football and more about his players than I do.

One final word on the earlier post about Sky Sports article on Fred - what IS their correspondent on?

Spurs are only 4 points ahead of Boro in the league with just under half the season to go! Yet this upstart has the audacity to talk about Boro only able to offer a new signing a relegation scrap and talks about Spurs as though they were challenging for a Champions League place?!! And West Ham are sitting in 10th! Nothing brilliant to shout home about there either!

But it does show the bias in the reporting style rather well I thought!

Posted by: Richard  | January 9, 2008 9:00 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Some polarising views and comments on here!

Regardless of how we have come to be here and who is right and who is wrong. Boro need to take a quick fix mentality over the next few weeks.

Championship football cannot be contemplated nor can £12M or £15M bids for risky unproven imports, exciting as that may be. At least one capable striker is a minimum, a new Keeper would be the icing on the cake but thats all we need for survival.

Defensively we have Young, Woodgate, Huth, Pogatetez, Riggot, Taylor and with Bates nearing return we are more than covered with comfort.

Midfield wise we have Downing, Johnson, Arca, O'Neil, Clattermole, Shawky, Rocky and perhaps the Boat. In addition we have Aliadiere who can play wide right (in my opinion his best position) giving us perm any 4 from 9 (assuming that Mendy is still a luxury we can afford).

Up front its Tuncay and Mido so its not really rocket science to see where and why we need a presence up front. In fairness to Craddock and Hutchinson I class them as still being weaned and should only be used for 15 minute cameos to give them a fair chance to develop their full potential. Don't even start me on LDG.

So where can we get a strong powerful individual who is fearless, knows where the goal is, doesn't mind sticking his head in where it hurts and is 100% Boro through and through? Someone who will be a handful to give Tuncay some breathing space in the box? Someone who can meet Downings crosses and has Premiership experience? More importantly someone who isn't going to break the bank and buy time for Mido's full return to fitness?

Best of all there are a few weeks before deadline day to give it a try with absolutely nothing to lose.

I doubt if Jeff Winter would contemplate this one as we mere mortals have never played the game at the highest level and don't know what we have been booing!

I do however know that David Wheater has scored more goals than certain "Strikers" (note the speech marks) at the club and in our hour of need would give the Scousers on Saturday an unexpected and unprepared for problem.

Just think how many he might score by the end of the season if he was actually trying to attack instead of defend for 90 minutes!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | January 9, 2008 10:59 PM

Clive Road wrote...

Excellent response to Score Draw AV. You may have been 'uncomfortable' about some of the things he has written about a Boro player but I have been embarressed.

We can all bang on about our favourites and scapegoats but his obsessive tunnel vision on this subject and some of the OTT language he uses about a current Boro player makes me cringe.

I don't know what he has written this time but if you have cut it out, good for you. Maybe you should have done it before now, as much on the grounds that he is boring as much as taste.

And more power to your elbow that you always come on here and explain your decisions to edit. It would be easy just to hit the big red button and then just ignore any outcry but you always front up and stand your corner (you put Tony Black in his place superbly once too).

Obviously you have the club looking over your shoulder, I think we all understand that. It is to your credit that despite that we still have the level of criticism and debate on here that we do without it descending to the gutter of other message boards.

Keep up the good work.

**AV writes: Thanks for the support. I am a passionate advocate of free speech and a believe a wide ranging and, hopefully, a passionate debate about the club is healthy and productive but sometimes people forget that despite that this is a public forum and part of my job is to ensure certain standards are maintained.

Posted by: Clive Road  | January 9, 2008 11:05 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Nigel,

I was being constructive and even though you may think that my views may well be rubbish and that I may well be an absolute idiot, I always put forward options and solutions that I think are right. I don't just criticise for the sake of it.

" Yakubu ended his days here walking around the pitch like a zombie so we would get rid of him. Fine, he doesn't want to be here so he should get lost, but I would have made an example out of him first instead of letting him take the Mickey, as Keane did with two who were late for the bus at Sunderland. I would have fined him all the way to show him who was the boss. "

This is what I said regarding Yakubu.

Perhaps my writing is amiss here, but the point was that Yakubu was allowed to wander aimlessly around the pitch with his hands in his pockets and so he should have been made to sit on the bench.

I don't think you can argue that he didn't put in much effort in, if any, when he decided that that was that and wanted to leave.

People talk of GS being a strong leader. Personally, I don't think that allowing Yakubu to take the Mickey week in, week out until he left was a demonstration of this.

GB shouldn't have just been dropped entirely from the squad in such a manner after just a training ground bust up, in my opinion, and should have also be made to sit on the bench at most where we could have used him in case we needed him. After all, it's not as if we have the luxury of a big squad, or have the luxury of being out of the relegation fight and given the fact that he has been the captain for some time I don't think that GS judgement here, as on other occasions, was right.

He could have quite easily sorted this out behind closed doors. After all, GB has never been a trouble maker and I don't think the occasional bust up in the heat of the moment is that big a deal anyway.

This is I how I see it anyway.

I've said this ad infinitum but I will say it again. As people and as servants to this club I think that GS and Coops have been truly exemplary and I haven't one single bad word to say about them. They are true, true gentlemen and inch perfect professionals who showed the youngsters how they should conduct themselves. I just don't rate them as manager and coach's, that's all. It isn't personal in anyway.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 9, 2008 11:08 PM

Ken wrote...

It's amusing how so much of the preceding arguments are rendered moot by two different newspapers quoting Alves' agent as saying that the deal is done - terms agreed by both clubs as well as Alves.

Posted by: Ken  | January 10, 2008 7:51 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Again linked with Alves and Fred in todays papers.

A new story is:

Middlesbrough are keen on signing Cristiano Lucarelli from Shakhtar Donetsk. (The Times)

Wikipedia describe him as: "A journeyman striker, Lucarelli had stints with eight different teams."

He is also 32 so hopefully some hack has just done a google search and picked out his name and linked it to Boro.


Posted by: Never Happy  | January 10, 2008 8:46 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Redcar Red - Lets hope Wheater can be a modern day John Hickton. Come on Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 10, 2008 9:12 AM

tonyblack wrote...

**AV writes: Thanks for the support. I am a passionate advocate of free speech and a believe a wide ranging and, hopefully, a passionate debate about the club is healthy and productive but sometimes people forget that despite that, this is a public forum and part of my job is to ensure certain standards are maintained. "

I think that it's safe to say that we all support you and fully understand your position AV.

Running a blog isn't easy at the best of times.

From our part I think that we write as we would talk anywhere and without realising it we sometimes get ourselves into trouble as Score Draw did and although I think he talks a lot of rubbish at times I'm sure he's a good lad at heart !!!

I have absolutely no problem with people having a problem with any Boro player as it spices things up a bit and gives us more to debate about, provided as you say that it remains within certain boundries.

My only complaint here is that I would like to see you do less of a balancing act sometimes and throw your hat on either side of the fence a bit more, just so that the debate can be a bit more polarising with those who agree and those who don't. But that's just a minor point and again I fully understand why at times you cannot do this.

Free speach ? Great !

GS and CC have to go ASAP. Get in Big Sam and let's do a Bolton, only even better.

Cheers.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 10, 2008 9:47 AM

Nigel wrote...

Never Happy - A google search, what an excellent way to find the player you need. If GS grafted this process on to his use of 'Championship Manager' then the selection process for finding new players would be near perfect!

As for Wheater being the new John Hickton that would be something to relish!

TB - No please not Fat Sam! Boring, physical football, no entertainment, no flair! I'd rather have Mac Back (well maybe not!).

I have to say I had a good laugh when I watched Sky Sports News and saw Allardyce had ben sacked, when Freddy Sheppard sold up and Sam was appointed I was a little worried that the barcodes might get their act together but clearly not!!

Fred, Alves either of them would be an improvement on where we are, if Alves came and was succesful he'd be off to a 'bigger club' as TB remarked, so a short termer I think , but if he scored a shed load of goals for a couple of seasons and then we made a fat profit then fair enough.
And finally......Downing being allowed to leave?

I can't see it, top scorer and no.1 play maker/assist king why on earth would we sell him, he's the one player who is irreplaceable isn't he?

Posted by: Nigel  | January 10, 2008 10:28 AM

tonyblack wrote...

" And finally......Downing being allowed to leave?

I can't see it, top scorer and no.1 play maker/assist king why on earth would we sell him, he's the one player who is irreplaceable isn't he? "

I totally agree. To sell him would only be because we got such a sky high offer that we couldn't refuse ( more than 10 to 12M ), otherwise I think selling him would be a very backward step, especially now when we need him to create some magic and lift everyone.

I just really hope that we don't lose the next two games as this would probably leave us in a very bad position again with a must win game against Wigan. Must win games can quite easily not be won.

I know some people may laugh, but Christie is on a free and without a club and " if " we get no one else in as a striker I'd much rather have him than Lee until the end of the season. I'd even prefer to stick Mendi up front than Lee until the end of the season only.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | January 10, 2008 10:52 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Is it true AV, have Boro bought Alves for £14m?

A source close to Alves said: “Middlesbrough and the player have an agreement in place and the clubs also.

“There are a few other details to sort out but the player should be in England by the end of the week.�

**AV writes: We are trying to find exactly what the state of play is. There are a lot of contradictory quotes from sources close to Alves flying around right now.


Posted by: Never Happy  | January 10, 2008 11:19 AM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Tony Black

Now I know you've flipped your lid! I understand that you watch your footy from the safety of your sofa, and that some of your views are therefore not necessarily founded in reality, but Fat Sam!?! P - LEASE!

We've already got shot of one defensive-minded, stop-them-at-all-costs, 11 men behind the ball manager. And he actually won us a trophy and took us to European heights. I'd rather have him back than Allardyce. Have you never seen the mighty Bolton play? Are you impressed with their free-flowing, silky, sexy, samba football?

Yet another self-made disaster from our black and white friends up the road! And 32 trainers and statistic experts to go with him! Laugh a minute! Mind you...... Mac could go to the Geordies. Now there's a prospect for laughter.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | January 10, 2008 6:34 PM

Scott Duncan wrote...

Re: Clive Hurren.

Bolton were given this tag of being a "hump the ball forward at all costs" team. Yet, whenever I watched them, they played with skill and more flair than we have shown over the past 5 years. Anelka, Diouf, Okocha, Djorkaeff are a few players to grace the Reebok whilst Big Sam was there. Hardly punt and run players are they?

Granted, Djorkaeff was coming to the end of his career when he came, but he was still a quality, quality footballer! Okocha is one of the most skillful players to grace our league. Anelka, if his transfer goes through this window, will become the most expensive footballer in history (over his series of transfers) and has played for some of the biggest clubs in the world and Diouf was good enough to be taken to Liverpool because of his "breath of fresh air" attitude to the game and amazing performances for Senegal in the 2002 WC.

One main reason that Bolton were known in this way is because Sam insisted on playing Kevin Davies up front. Davies is a big, strong, bustling centre forward, so pumping the ball forward is sometimes a natural thing for defenders to do when they are under pressure.

Davies is, in fact, a good striker. He has good feet, can head a ball and in his day, was a quick player. Hes getting on a bit now, but I wouldnt of minded him up here a couple of years ago!

Another reason is when Sam went to the likes of Old Trafford and The Bridge, he did play a more defensive formation....but why not, I would rather come away from OT with a draw than getting stuffed 3 or 4 nil like some teams do.

I like Sam, I think he is a good manager with a good eye for a player. His tactics are good and he seems to be able to influence high profile players to go to his club, something we have lacked since Robbo was up here.

I do agree with one thing you have said though, Mac going to the skunks would be highly amusing!

Posted by: Scott Duncan  | January 10, 2008 7:25 PM

Richard wrote...

This was the Sky Sports article yesterday morning concerning Stewart Downing.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11675_3033281,00.html

Note the strong positivity in the statement about Boro's intent and the immediate linking to Spurs interest.

Exactly the same taactic as they employed last summer with Yak.

Only on this occasion, Keith Lamb and Gareth have nipped it in the bud and issued a definitive rebuttal.

Good to see Sky with egg on face!!

Today's offering from Sky was by a different correspondent and was a tad more cautious!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11675_3036899,00.html

The second item they published was great, it appears because Boro PR were on the ball.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3037688,00.html

Given an inch and these (inter)national media guys will go over the top in their meddling with the transfer process and any ther media vehicle they can employ to further their own agenda.

Keep up the good work KL and GS. With such an organised media "adversary", it really does demonstrate the value of a strong, well-organised and pro-active PR and Communications Section within the club.

And "well done" to the Gazette in the role they're playing in getting the right message out there to the national media. I like the idea of a strong local alliance between our own home-based media working professionally with the local club to get the right messages out there.

Posted by: Richard  | January 11, 2008 12:15 AM

Danny wrote...

Sorry off subject a bit but...

As someone who voted for the white band to come back having been first introduced to it back in the early seventies and loved it, just one question - is white 'band' going completely the whole way around the shirt or just a white horizontal stripe on the front?

I hope it goes the whole way around not just the front. Looks much better and iconic.

**AV writes: I think a hoop has been declared illegal, along with stripes on the back as they prevent the clear identification of numbers.

Posted by: Danny  | January 11, 2008 7:30 AM

Nigel wrote...

AV - I sent a post sometime yesterday afternoon which hasn't appeared, I also notice you have a gap in posts from 11:19am to 6:34pm which seems unusual, has a black hole appeared at the Gazette office?!

**AV writes: It was a bit quiet yesterday. I will enquire.
The last I can see from you was 10.28am. Was there one after that?

Posted by: Nigel  | January 11, 2008 9:33 AM

Nigel wrote...

Av - I sent a post yesterday afternoon refering to the Alves will he wont he situation.

**AV writes: I have asked my geeks to turn it off and turn it back on again or whatever the hell it is they do. No cyber black holes have been spotted as yet.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 11, 2008 11:58 AM

James Emmerson wrote...

Also a bit off subject (only a bit) did anyone see ESPN last night which had a rerun of Ipswich Town v Boro from 1982?

Boro lost 3-1, big (and I mean big) Bobby Murdoch at the helm, with relegation confirmed not long after an all too familiar performance.

Two down after two gift wrapped goals, a wonder strike from Dave Thomas to get us back to 2-1, and then numerous half-chances and decent pressure before succumbing to a scrappy third from Alan Brazil.

A line up of Platt, Craggs, Bailey, Nattrass, Baxter, McAndrew, Thomas, Ross, Bolton, Otto and Shearer with Ashcroft as sub. And a poverty-induced red shirt (no white stripe, the cheapo looking adidas one) although the white socks (with red hoops on the turnovers) were better than those being enthused about on this blog after the Portsmouth game.

Anyway, the point is, whatever our current travails, going back in time was a timely reminder of what desperate actually is!

Posted by: James Emmerson  | January 11, 2008 12:47 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Come back from holiday to find some things in life a re constant.

Schwarzer is responsible for global warming and third world debt. I notice Score Draw bigs up Turnbull after the Reading and Arsenal games, oddly Turnbull gave a great impersonation of a headless chicken at Reading. Swarzers time is coming to an end but he is not our biggest problem. Striking and defending would be good starting points.

Warm seats would eradicate 99% of all known ailments. But the appliance of science can help improve performances, apart from Fat Sam and Toon though Mike Ashley sorted that out.

Which reminds me, Mike Ashley was spotted at Kings X. An old dear was trying to get on the train with her suitcase. Mike Ashley asked if she could manage to which she replied 'No chance, I dont want the job'

We have 'sell Downing, the lazy stuck up waster' counterbalanced by 'how can we sell our main provider and current top scorer'

Alves for Boro, or is it Hulse or maybe Suker. The Boat is about to be cut adrift.

And finally AV got a new censors pen for Xmas just because he is frightened that someone might slap a lawsuit on him!

Can hardly blame him for that, I always try not to cross the bounds of decency and common sense though fail occasionally. The alternative is AV getting the bullet and reverting to the message board and Talk Sport style drivel.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 11, 2008 12:54 PM

Richard wrote...

Welcome back Ian. Lousy holiday then!?

Never mind. Your back just in time for the scousers to bring some of their European City of Culture culture to the Riverside.

I'm sure we'll all find it terribly uplifting to be in such esteemed ambassadorial company!

Posted by: Richard  | January 11, 2008 1:54 PM

Jester Joke wrote...

All the commotions on getting a new striker. I think boosting our survival chances don't lie on a striker more than a reliable GK.

We dominated most games, but lost to woeful goalkeeping. If we got a better goalkeeper than "Once great Schwarzers" combined with our strong defense line-up, we should pull through this season.

Keeping clean sheets, earning draws, and winning 1-0 should be more important than scoring more often than the opposition. Cause the whole season I'm watching, most close games we lost with our side hitting the target more but never the net.

GS: save the 15M, buckle the defense, get a reliable GK (maybe Sorensen & Jens from Arsenal) and maybe by end January, we'll be up and have time to search for a great striker at a more reasonable price.

Posted by: Jester Joke  | January 11, 2008 2:49 PM

Nigel wrote...

What I tried to post yesterday but probably forgot to press the 'send' button was that Alves looks a good bet, but maybe a short term one.

He maybe seeing the Boro as an 'in' to the prem. with a view to proving himself and moving on. If he scores a shed load of goals for a season or two and can then be sold for a fat profit then so be it.

Rather that than we shell out £10million for Macarrone mk2!
Events up the A19 are proving highly amusing, when Big Sam pitched up and Sheppard disapeared I was worried that the barcodes may be getting their act together, but clearly not!

I see Ant & Dec are 500-1 for the vacant managers job, they would fit in nicely as a comedy club is clearly being run from St. James' Park.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 11, 2008 3:03 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Richard

Holiday was fine. Whilst away we visited the temple at Petra - the place where Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. was made

Although in Jordan I was amazed to solve the mystery of Mido. It was either him or his spitting image acting as a tour guide! He wasnt limping so may well be back soon.

Tomorrows match will be intriguing. We dont know which Boro team will get off the bus, the scousers dont know who will be in the team! You may not be aware but there is a website (fantasyrafa.com) which is a bit like fantasy football. In this case you gain points for guessing what the line up of the team will be.

I guess they will be sending out a full strength side which is more than can be said for us. But all we can do is get stuck in and do our best.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 11, 2008 3:23 PM

Never Happy wrote...

It is interesting that all the talk is about a new striker when as Jester Joke wrote, we do need a new keeper.

Prehaps GS thinks that we can survive despite MS until the end of the season. It is a risky strategy.

Paul Robinson is now available and whilst he has had a torrid time a change of club might revitalise him.

Who will GS pick out of Huth and Wheater tomorrow?

The Boat will probably be back to play along side Rocky, so the midfield will lack pace. Hopefully Rafa will have one of his selection 'mares' and leave Torres and Crouch out.

Despit L'pools poor Riverside record the first goal will be vital and as such Boro have to take the game to the scousers.

Hopefully Tuncay can find his scoring touch and so a Tuncay goal and 1 - 0 to the Boro at 60/1 might pay for a good day out.

If Wheater plays and scores in a 1 - 0 win at 140/1 then a day out might turn into a weekend out.

Come on Boro!

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 11, 2008 3:37 PM

martin wrote...

Afonso Alves 11/01/08 flying into England :)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/borored/Image066.jpg

**AV writes: Exclusive!

Posted by: martin  | January 11, 2008 4:26 PM

Bandy wrote...

Spot on as usual Mr V

Posted by: Bandy  | January 11, 2008 4:45 PM

Ken wrote...

Evidently AZ Alkmaar claim that Alves signed with them starting January 1st, and are going to court to enforce it:

http://www.soccerway.com/news/2008/January/11/az-puts-pressure-on-alves-case

So, how good is this "Fred" ? :-)

Posted by: Ken  | January 11, 2008 5:41 PM

Richard wrote...

Ken,
Can't see this standing up. The teams in the Dutch League are bound by UEFA/FIFA(?) Rules like we are. As I understand it, no approaches, transfers or agreements/negotiations to transfer are allowed outside of the transfer windows.

Presumably therefore, to remain within UEFA/FIFA rules no such agreement could have been made between the end of August and the beginning of January. As far as I know, no agreement was struck between anyone and Alves before the end of August last year. Otherwise we would have heard about it before now.

Also, if Heerenveen were party to such, why would they be negotiating with anyone else now, as we are led to believe they are?

Even if such an "agreement" or "understanding" or "letter of Intent" between clubs or club/player was reached, it wouldn't be legally enforceable as a contract.

We had similar goings on in the summer of last year with the Carlos Tevez affair, of course, which contravened UEFA Rules concerning player "ownership". That whole episode stunk to high heaven. I hope we're not in for a similar carry-on with Alves.

I think that both AZ and Heerenveen could find themselves in deep do-do with UEFA if there's any substance to the claim.

Posted by: Richard  | January 11, 2008 9:32 PM

Ken wrote...

More on the Alves Soap from Dutch web site:

This is a google translation of the Dutch:

Arbitragezaak Alves will be taken on Wednesday
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 11--2008 18:29

By Sander van Hal

The arbitragezaak that AZ has against SC Heerenveen on a possible transfer of
Afonso Alves takes place next Wednesday at the KNVB ground in Zeist.

According AZ there is a signed transferovereenkomst with Heerenveen on the
transition from the peak by January 1, 2008. Also on the share of the transfer
fee which Alves entitled to, by all parties would comply.

Heerenveen director Yme Kuiper is the case, however, with confidence. He's in
the transferovereenkomst stated that the only valid if Alves before January 5
written agreement with the Frisian club would have reached on the termination of
his contract and the amount that they possibly to the forefront itself would
toevloeien. That agreement was never reached, which according
transferovereenkomst Kuiper has become null and void.

According to the Director Heerenveen also do not want Alves (more) to AZ.

**AV writes: And a translation of that... AZ claim they have already signed a pre-contract with the player but Heerenveen say that such a deal is no longer valid because Alves did not buy out his existing deal as agreed by January 5th. It could get messy.

Posted by: Ken  | January 11, 2008 10:59 PM

Jester Joke wrote...

"Never Happy" wrote Who will GS pick out of Huth and Wheater tomorrow?

If it was for me...I'll advise GS to put Wheater up front with Tuncay and Huth paired with Woodgate.

Wheater might turn out a world class striker like Alan Shearer who started @ Southampton as a defender..

And with his passion and love for the club...we won't have to worry if he'll be moving like most of the foreign strikers.

Posted by: Jester Joke  | January 12, 2008 9:21 AM

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