Make Your Mind Up Time For Woody
GARETH SOUTHGATE has shone a torch into the murky fog of rumour and speculation engulfing the mooted move of Jonathan Woodgate with an illuminating observation that may shift the focus of the debate away from the undoubted abilities of the player to his commitment and willingness to buy into the exciting vision of a new Boro the boss is building.
After the gritty 2-0 FA Cup win at Mansfield Southgate was asked if Woody was still a Boro player. He looked at his watch and laughed and said: "I think so." Then he volunteered what may be the most significant piece yet of the jigsaw that is slowly taking shape. "Jonathan has some big decisions to make," he mused. "He needs to decide whether he wants to be part of what we are doing at this club or whether he wants to move on somewhere else.�
Southgate's disarmingly simple statement is the clearest indication so far that the possible exit of the £7m Boro-born England international defender has been prompted by more that just football reasons. It seems there are philosophical differences too.
Team spirit is vital for success. A collective belief in the style of football being played and the long term aims of a club plus an unconditional commitment to everything on and off the pitch is the bedrock of progress and anything that undermines it must be tackled and dealt with.
Fans know that instinctively. That is why the ultimate crimes are 'not putting it in for the shirt', why the mantra has always been that 'no one is bigger than the club', and why explosive obvious talent is no mitigation. No one went easy on Boksic because he was brilliant or was ready to forgive the boat-rocking antic of Ravanelli because of his goals. Fans' don't like mercenaries, prima donnas or passengers. Some Boro fans have already cast judgement on Woodgate and there were some cutting rewordings of the "is a red" song at Mansfield.
At root a football team and a football club are collective entities that centre around belief in the whole. If Woodgate - or any other player - is to stay it must because he is ready to commit himself to the exacting model of professionalism, discipline and preparation that underpins Southgate's desire to play a brand of attacking football played with pace and passion. It must because they believe they can contribute to pushing the club forward along the lines the boss and the chairman have set out and because they share the ethos of the team.
The situation can be boiled down to this: Woody has to want to be here and if he doesn't then he can leave. He should leave. If he doesn't want to be here then he can not give his all, not just on th epitch but in the dressing room and even if that shaves just one per cent off his effectiveness it will cost us dear and have massive political ramifications. Boro can not afford to have their top paid player falling short of the standards being demanded from every other player.
If he does want to stay and play his way back to the very top of his game then that would be brilliant because on his day he is the most positionally aware cultured centre-back in the country and to have such a player to now pledge himself to Southgate's vision would be a huge boost to morale and to the strength of the squad. That is what the boss has invited him to do.
He could of course opt to leave. He is entitled to. It may be that he doesn't share that vision and if that is the case then it would best for all concerned if he did move on, and for Woody that he quickly finds a vision that can reignite his own form and zest. If he does it should be without recriminations - yes, I know that sounds ridiculously naive - because in his first year on loan he was out-standing and helped steady the ship. If we can get our money back then his time at Boro will still represent a good signing... but if drags on and is allowed to fester and his failure to buy into the vision spreads like a cancer in the dressing room then it could turn into a disaster.
It's make your mind up time for Woody.
*****
ONCE again Boro failed to oblige and fall victim to a giant killing. Far from being the small screen sacrificial lambs they ground out a scrappy win against spirited opposition. At times they rode their luck - the bar rattling was a bit of a scare - but overall it was a routine victory that propelled Boro into what could easily turn out to be a generous fifth round draw.
There was an excellent atmosphere at Field Mill. It was Mansfield's "cup final" but although they hoped to make a few bob out of the broadcast rights few regular local fans or their press people expected to win. They have bigger fish to fry. Outside Boro fans were propositioned by the Grim Reaper and handed a leaflet protesting at the lease holder's refusal to release the ground to the consortium that has recently taken over the club, effectively stopping them raising loans and qualifying for grants. The leaflet handily gave his mobile number and invited people to ring him.
On the whistle there was Argentina 78 ticker tape clouds of ripped paper engulfing the main stand and hers of complex yellow and blue balloon molecular structures released onto the pitch to roam along the touchline and make occasional incursions onto the pitch. Players were still stamping on and popping them five minutes before the break.
Both sets of fans were noisy and colourful with Boro in fine voice. The Gibson 'one of us' surfer banner was there along with the Spirit of Steaua flag and some familiar banners and some new songs including a derogatory one about Woody and a refrain of "the Gook, the Gook, the Gook''s on fire" .
It was a great game to watch: stirring if not always silky, thundering tackles flying in from both sides, passion, endeavour, direct and robust football on Mansfield's part, some crisp skills and, er, robust football on Boro's part, the rarity of a Lee Dong Gook goal - he has become a specialist at scoring against lower league outfits in the knockouts - a challenge from the Berlin Wall that made the eyes water and a 'What Happened Next Moment' as six or seven balls in quick succession came looping over the the roof of the East Stand during play to bounce on the pitch to loud cheering.
And there were plenty of positives to take from the game. Aliadiere had possibly his most effective showing wide on the right in a front three which will give the Gate some food for thought if Alves joins. The pairing of Huth and Wheater at the back is immense: imposing, physical, commanding, hard as nails and scary as hell. Add Pogatetz to the mix and that is a back line that can mix it with anyone, including the San Francisco 49ers. Rochemback, a guy who normally has me stomping and swearing in frustration was a class act in a deep role just in front of the defence spraying passes about and working hard. And Mido continued to trundle his way to fitness, making his way slowly but unstoppably around the pitch like a monster truck on tow.
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Couldn't agree more Vic.
It basically sums up what I have been saying for some time, the signs were there for all to see, that Woody has somehow got himself into a muddled state of mind, and his on-field performances have suffered.
But I have to ask the question, is he really injured? Is his continued absence akin to "a note to the headmaster from his mam" until he gets his head right?
Amid all of the rumours on the street, or from the kit lady at Rockcliffe or wherever, Woody is no doubt a very talented player (when he's fit and he is focused) and there is no doubt that if he decides he wants to play for Boro, for the shirt, the fans AND he patches up any differences he has with his team mates and Southgate, then he should stay. But we don't want it all to happen again in 6 months time when he does some more thinking in the close season.
On another note, I said tongue in cheek on the last blog "Downing at 10Mil anyone", not believeing for one minute that Boro would sell.
After watching Boro's gritty win yesterday, we must keep Downing at all costs. Does anyone really believe that Jinky is ready to step into Stewy's shoes?, because if you do then I urge you to think long and hard.
The difference in class was abundently clear when they swapped places in the 2nd half. You could visibly measure the drop in Mansfield's confidenece when they seen Downing warming up.
I could live with Woody going, but not Downing.
There is never much point in keeping a player who wants to go or no longer fits into the team ethic.
When he is the highest paid player at the club and is struggling with form and fitness then it makes easier to let him go. As we saw with Yak it only takes something niggling in the back of the mind to take the edge off performances.
The fact he is a local lad wont help with the younger lads as they will see him as one of them men.
With the number of games to play in a normal season squad size becomes an issue. We certainly need competition for places but getting the balance between two quality players for each position and throwing in kids is a tricky balance.
Top quality players wont sit on the bench without getting seriously miffed, playing in the stiffs hacks them off. Old lags on last big contracts might put up with it but even some of those want a run out.
Dont get me wrong because I would like him to stay. There is a lot he can still offer the club but is he able to do so. And here I incclude is his heart is still in it because no matter how much you try any doubts will take the edge off performance.
This is a very good article AV.
Xavier talked often to the press of developing this " winning " mentality from inside every part of the club, and I really couldn't agree more. I love to hear of this kind of work going on and would like to hear more from GS.
However, there is one question that this article raises.
" Team spirit is vital for success. A collective belief in the style of football being played and the long term aims of a club plus an unconditional commitment to everything on and off the pitch is the bedrock of progress and anything that undermines it must be tackled and dealt with. "
Xavier was offered a one year deal, propbably his last, and yet he left to play in the USA for basically nothing. Viduka left. Yakubu left and cited the clubs " lack of ambition " and perhaps Woody may also be on his way, and should he go he will be another player who hasn't bought into the vision that you describe.
OK, we can all dismiss the first three names out of the list as many will no doubt do. But should Woody of all people not buy into what you are describing AV, it would be worrying, as he was said to have been " one of us " and that he had come back because he wanted to play for his beloved hometown club and to be with his family and friends above all else.
So where has all that reasoning gone ?
" IF " he should go it would raise some questions as to whether " the long term aims of a club " are in fact either real or attainable.
Let's hope that both he and Downing stay, for the fact that they are key players, and because it would be a clear signal that what you have spoken about is in fact the case and slowly but surely taking place.
Should Downing also leave though ( rumoursvilles only I know ), but should he go then I think it leaves everything in this article basically in tatters.
TB
**AV writes: Gibbo had a meeting with Downing this week where he restated the club's position. Let us hope that has sharpened his mind.
A piece in a paper about maybe why Woodie isnt rushing to go to Toon
''Nevertheless, Newcastle's lack of quality told on the pitch, and an insider has reported to the News of the World that some of the players were left somewhat disillusioned by Keegan's tactical team preparations for the game.
"The players were waiting for Kevin to give his instructions but all he said was 'Arsenal are a great passing team. We must make sure we pass the ball better than them'. That was it," reported the anonymous source.
"There were no specific tactics, no work on set pieces ... the players were stunned."''
AV, now I can see the reason for the permission for Woody to talk to the Spurs and the Barcodes. He must decide.
As a local lad - and I think he is world class defender - I hope he still to be at the Riverside in the future.
This must be a special club to him and he must accept that his injuries prevent him to be automatic choice here as elsewhere. Hence he cannot be the captain - but perhaps a stand-by captain.
Who will warrant that he has less injuries at the Spurs? Or more opportunities? As defender and a Boro fan he must also like the new, more attacking and flowing style of Boro football. GS is taking the club in to the right direction. And see what happened to Leeds for example with over spending, etc.
By bet: Alves comes on Monday and Woody says he stays on Tuesday. He lifts the FA Cup together with Arca in May!
AV
Parmo, pretzel or stottie for Woody?
If he chooses Parmo I'd only feel right about it if that was a head and heart decision and not made just with the wallet.
If it's not about commitment, like Gate says, then it's better he goes. We'd be better off with the money rather than the continued loss of form and any prospect of sulks.
As Neil says we must redouble our efforts to keep Stewie and yesterday showed why. Johnno's not the real deal yet.
And let's for goodness sake nail the Alves move or move on. We must have a quality striker or two in before Thursday.
There are other positions we could go for too but I agree, AV, that if we don't get another right sided midfielder then Aliadiere could play on the right of a front three. He's certainly no striker.
You must be an afficionado of thud and blunder or you were at a different game than the one I saw yesterday.
Poor stuff but we won and that's all that matters.
We'll need to be better - much better - to get the six points against Wigan on Tuesday but you're right about our defence shaping up to be the new Craggs, Boam, Maddren and Spraggon.
We'll need them to be every bit as obdurate against Bent, Sibierski and Heskey and our midfield will need to put in a shift too.
**AV writes: Ok, I'll fess up, I do like a bit of thud and blunder. And a bit of the old David and Goliath. That kind of hell for leather football from the opposition is a massive test of character as well as football and Boro came through it.
It's not like they were twice behind at home to part-timers, although I'd probably enjoy that kind of game too.
On the question of whether we should sell Woodgate, the situation is simple: should we trade in a player who excels on his day, but is currently not the first name on the teamsheet, playing in a position where we have for a new goalscorer - something we desperately need?
Of course, the real question is not whether we should sell him, but what he wants to do. I am suprised that he's not worth more than 7M, though - surely a lot of the risk that we took when we bought him has gone away - he's proved his fitness (to an extent, anyway), and his premiership abilities.
Selling Downing would be folly, though, as has been eloquently stated by other posters - the bullets and gun analogy puts it well.
Although Nigel interpreted MFCs position as being that they could buy both Alves and Fred without needing to sell, I suspect the actual position is that they only intend to buy one or the other. And, just because they don't need to sell, they still might well need to take on a new bank loan to finance the deal.
Watching yesterday's game, a couple of things stood out. The first is how important Arca is in midfield (which we all should know by now), as demonstrated by the collapse in our play when he dropped to left back, only recovering when we got Downing on.
Keeping Arca and Rochemback fit (and at the club) is going to be vital to our staying up this season - Boateng's star is rapidly waning. In fact, a new good creative central midfielder should be a priority for the summer, especially if Rochemback continues to be unsettled. O'Neil might be able to play that role, of course.
The other thing is that Cattermole had a shocker. He was never in the right position, particularly when making "tackles". He just ran around totally ineffectually.
I was really excited about the prospects for this "rough diamond", and when Ali said he was "a future England captain", a part of me wanted to believe in his powers of prophecy.
But he doesn't seem to have added to his game. He should have been working on his weaknesses, i.e. positioning, ball control and passing, but it's as if he's been trapped by his own stereotype.
Hopefully, he's just still a bit off from whatever illness he had - but if he doesn't show a big development before the summer, I think his Boro days will be numbered, and that would be a great shame.
A good couple of articles AV, and probably all has been said. However I would just like to reiterate what others have said.
Downing really is one our most important players, and cannot be lost to another club, especially during our development over the next couple of years. I am not convinced Johnson will become anywhere near as good.
Arca is not a left back, and neither is Pogi. We do require cover here in my opinion. Cattermole will never make to the dizzy hieghts, as jc said he has not improved at all.
It was good to pie man back, even unfit he was more effective than Lee.
Poggi's comments that we must keep Wheater and Downing fills in the cracks for me in regards to the Woody debate.
Its possible that the alleged dressing room "differences" may be resolved by Woody moving to pastures new.
Consequently we retain Downing's services and his current upturn in form along with Wheater (probably our best CB at the moment) who now has a vacancy before him and an improved contract offer.
If Woody's departure gives us funds (transfer fee and wages!) to secure an Alves or similar level of Striker, stabilises one or two individual's who apparently may be concerned by him for whatever reason and brings harmony into the playing staff then its got to be good for the long term benefit of the club.
Gareth seems to be getting to grips with things of late and is making some much needed tough decisions not least of all the Captaincy and this I suspect is part of a much bigger agenda hence Poggi's well timed statement. Could it be our new PR guru is actually getting things right?
Great piece. Would be interested in Tony Black expanding his cryptic thoughts . Does he feel that all is not what is seems behind the closed doors of the club?
Re Xavier , I thought that he was only offered a one year deal & I suppose the glamour of LA Galaxy & a poss' new life in the US were worth more. I checked out their website today & his face is still on the home page , just like last year.
Must agree on comments re Downing. Johnson didn't cut the mustard against Mansfield, in fact he reminded me of the pre-Mourinho Joe Cole - a bit of a show pony.
I'm sure when he matures a bit more he will be a fine player, but for me Downing made a real impact when he came on and I believe the Mansfield players visibly sagged a little at his introduction despite the moronic booing from a small minority of their 'supporters', who are not, I suspect, normally amongst the regular 2000 or so who turn out for their league games.
Shame these punters can't show up every home game; if they did Stags wouldn't be in the position they're in at the moment...
AV: I've carried over the post below from the earlier blog on Woodgate's impending departure because I think it's important that the point is aired, given a chance of public debate and not lost because of the timing of fast-moving events that change the subject matter of successive blogs.
Hutchinson's transfer to Celtic is being reported as though it's a result of Boro dragging their heals on new player contract negotiations.
Whilst I haven't seen anything very special in Hutchinson other than a willingness to run, the fact that he's been brought off the bench several times this season implies that the manager and coaching staff have seen sufficient in him to warrant giving him a chance.
Granted, the absence of top-class striking talent has also meant that at times, the pressure's been on to enable him to make the bench, at least.
However, the concerning part of this is that if Boro management valued him and saw him as one for the future, then why didn't they negotiate a new contract with him to keep him at the club?
The Bosman ruling and a plentiful supply of predatory clubs means that every club needs to pay strong attention to their existing staff contract positions. It seems that time and again, Boro's policy in this regard is questionable - at least on the basis of information available to the public.
Whilst we can't expect that we get to know every detail of what goes on at the club, I think it's important for the club to realise that when there is an expectation of "growth", "improvement" and "ambition" around, to have seemingly repeated examples of feet being dragged on playing staff contract issues - whether they're issues or not -rather sends out contradictory messages.
I think there's room for improvement in Boro's approach to either the management of the contracts, or their management of released information concerning player contracts.
The explanations of Woodgate's developing situation have been informative and well-reasoned and most people can understand why the club is taking the position it has.
But Hutchinson seems to have bowled us a curved ball! Granted he doesn't have the profile or prominence of Woodgate, but, being young and ahving been developed via the academy, he does represent the future of the club. At least he did until he signed a pre-contract agreement with Celtic.
Do we have comment yet from the club on the Hutchinson affair?
**AV writes: Hutchinson is out of contract in the summer so entitled to talk to clubs.
The reality is this... he played because of an injury crisis at a time when the club is two strikers short of its full complement. He has been fifth choice striker this term behind Lee Dong Gook and Tom Craddock and if Boro bring in Alves and AN Other between now and his contract ending he would be seventh choice striker.
In all probability he wouldn't get a game next year for the ressies. There was no sense in keeping him. There is certainly no sense in offering him the long term contract generous contract.
Some people are trying to spin this into a major dropped blob by the club but the fact is that six or so players every year at his stage of development are not offered contracts. One or two of those find a pro-club at a lower level but most end up in non-league football.
I am staggered that he has been offered a gig at Celtic on the strength of one goal in the Prem. He should snatch their hands off and good luck to him but I don't see it as an issue any more than when Danny Graham left.
Good article AV. I liked your take on the Mansfield game! Were you in amongst the Boro fans?
I thought the Woodgate song about him being a traitor (not quite the words used)was only sung by a few lunatics and therefore very quiet, but when we changed it to "David Wheater is a red, he hates Geordies" it became much louder and clearer.
My impression was that most fans didn't want to sing the anti- Woody chant, quite rightly.
On a very disturbing note, a new very unsavoury, vile chant about Keegan and a baseball bat was introduced and taken up by a few. I hope you'll join me in trying to get the club to ban this, as it does our reputation no good at all, especially after how we slated the Geordies for their MIdo chants. "Cheer up Kevin Keegan" is still a belter, however, and most of us joined in with that one!
Only 6 Prem sides left in the FA Cup! Come on Boro!!
" buffaloboro wrote...
Great piece. Would be interested in Tony Black expanding his cryptic thoughts . Does he feel that all is not what is seems behind the closed doors of the club?
Re Xavier , I thought that he was only offered a one year deal & I suppose the glamour of LA Galaxy & a poss' new life in the US were worth more. I checked out their website today & his face is still on the home page , just like last year. "
Hi Buffaloboro,
well, all not being well " may " be a possibility. It's at least worth a mention.
Xavier could well have left for the reasons you state, Viduka may well be a mercenary and Yakubu the same. But what of Woody ?
Of all the clubs Woody could have gone to when he left Madrid he chose his beloved Boro, a team he dreamed of playing for since he was a boy.
So for him to leave something quite dramatic must have happened behind the scenes.
OK, everyone knows that I am not a fan of GS and Coops and believe that they are not the right people to take the club forwards and I still don't think that they have.
That said, I admit that I'm in the minority here so it could quite well turn out that I am utterly wrong about them. I hope I am - Totally.
Nevertheless, I am worried and eager to know if people are in fact leaving because there is a problem with them, or because it is a lack of belief in the management and the direction that the club is taking.
Something many fans didn't like to hear from Yakubu and so he was quickly rubbished as a money grabbing mercenary. He may well be, but then again he may well not be. He may have been attracted by more money, but he may also have been attracted by the fact the Everton are more likely to win something and to be in Europe more often.
It is also interesting that AV can state...
"The key difference between Yak and Stewie is that everyone in the club from the top man to the tea lady wanted the former out whereas they all want the latter to stay. The internal dynamics are completely different.... "
And there is proof of this AV ?
But when we post such statements / rumours about players up to no good in the pubs and clubs when they should be in bed, that they are instantly edited and removed in order that the lawyers don't take action against his bosses.
Sorry AV, I'm not trying to wind you up here or fall out with you, but it's only fair that you too follow the same rules that you make the rest of us follow.
If you are unable to provide proof of these statements then the statement should be retracted and removed.
I think it's a fair question to ask.
I also raised the point that if Downing goes as well then I think we have a serious problem. If on the other hand he stays then I think it will give a very great deal of credibilty and weight to AV's original article. If he goes then I think it leaves it in tatters.
I for one sincerely hope he stays firmly put as we simply cannot afford to lose players of his quality, especially given that we are still firmly in a relegation battle and in need of his creativity and ability to deliver a great cross.
I also think it's also very unwise to get rid of Woody at this particular moment in time because of the fact that the also very injury prone Huth may not remain injury free for too long. The same may happen to other key defenders and so I think that it would be wiser to wait until the summer when we are safely back in the Premiership.
Let's just hope that these scenarios remain just that and that we keep Downing, as if not we may well come to regret these decisions.
TB
**AV writes: There is nothing even partilayy contentious in what I have written there. You may think it is wrong - the tea lady may hate him - but even so it is not defamatory.
With a few ppl commenting that we need cover for left back it is interesting to note that a former Boro youth product will oust a former Boro fans favourite in this position at another Premier League club.....
AV: Thanks for the definitive analytical reply to the Hutchinson situation. I understand and agree with your assessment of Hutchinson and with the sentiment expressed in your last paragraph.
All the more reason to be intrigued by your observation, "Some people are trying to spin this into a major dropped blob by the club....", which is essentially what prompted my initial post!
With recurring examples of poor factual reporting, such as appeared this weekend on Sky Sports website, it's easy to have the small-town club paranoia aggravated!
But as somebody once said to me, "You need to be paranoid to survive!"
Multiple sources say that Alves just flew into Teesside and a deal has been agreed with "Lord Peat" (Heerenveen).
With Woodie being allowed and close to leaving have the club painted themselves into a corner with Downing?
If reports are correct he has been told that he isnt leaving and is very much part of the future plans for the club. Certainly events at Mansfield show that Jinky has some way to go to become his long term replacement, his time will come as he is only young yet.
Stewie now knows he is staying, he knows that Woodie was on a substantial contract, he knows how highly he is told he is regarded, he also knows what we dont and that is what salary he is on and probably how that compares to other players. The club are also trying to tie down Wheater with a long term contract.
We can only guess what is going through his mind. Whilst financially we are in a different league, if it was one of us in a similar position we would be thinking you cannot spread job satisfaction on toast or use it pay the mortgage.
What is certain is that the club will have to come up with a new contract to test his resolve. If it is truly about being out of kilter with the higher paid members of the squad that would settle the issue.
If it is about him wanting to get on and he sees his future elsewhere it would clear the air and flush him out. Even if it is a mixture of both it will still lance the boil and both parties can plan to stay or move on in the summer.
" **AV writes: There is nothing even partilay contentious in what I have written there. You may think it is wrong - the tea lady may hate him - but even so it is not defamatory. "
AV, Perhaps it might be an idea to clear up the " rules " with a sticky post somewhere just underlying what goes and what doesn't so as to ensure the very best possible debate - just a thought...
Again, I wasn't trying to be funny or anything, it's just that it's very hard to know where the line is actually drawn that's all.
Anyway, thanks.
TB
**AV writes: We have been over it time and again TB. I think most people know where the line is and understand that I have to be the one that gets to draw it.
I hope that once Woody has spoken to Spurs and King Kev that he has a long hard think and comes to the realisation that he wants to be at Boro and that its time to roll up his sleeves and get stuck in.
Maybe he will accept that as classy as he is he doesnt have a right to a place in the team. If he comes to that conclusion we will all be the winners.
On the Radio 5 phone in last night an Arsenal fan was saying the gunners should buy him. Which is an indication of how highly rated he is.
Fingers crossed he comes to the right conclusion.
The more I see and hear GS his thoughts and actions the more clear it is to me what a great leader he is, there are indications showing now that he could be the best manager Boro have had for a long long time.
His actions over Woody and releaving Boateng of the captaincy show he is prepared to make the tough decisions, that can only enhance his standing among the squad.
Finally, 'The Berlin Wall' should have been sent off against Mansfield, I love to see a tough centre back as much as anyone, but his follow through on the Mansfield player was a complete disgrace.
"the exciting vision of a new Boro the boss is building"
My goodness you get some propaganda on here.
How many idiots are there out there who buy into gareth's cheap talk of attacking football and goals from areas of the team?
What about the reality of season after season of relegation struggles and buying the likes of O'neill/Alliadiere/DGl who couldn't hit a barn door and won't get 5 league goals a season between them?
Woodgate has seen exactly what Viduka and the Yak saw; that Gareth talks the talk, but hasn't got a clue in the transfer market and they are not prepared to flirt with the drop every season.
And while you're talking about gareth not wanting mercenaries, perhaps you could explain the recruitment of Alves, one of the biggest mercenaries about, who has already been on strike this season as Heerenveen wouldn't let him go.
make no mistake he will be going on strike in the summer of 2009 or going through the motions Yak style if he doesn't get a move to a big club by then. He is here to get a few goals, put himself in the window and get a move away. At 27 time is not on his side.
For God's sake don't kid youself he is part of us 'building for the future'.
He has come to use as a stepping stone. if we make a profit on him then that suits me. Just don't kid yourself he buys into Tim nice but Dim's relegation surfers and their 'exciting vision'.
**AV writes: I'm sure he will be using Boro as a stepping stone. The trick is to get one opr two good years before selling on at the optimum point.
All the whys and wherefores of the Woody saga are pretty irrelevant now, if Arsenal have bid for Woody then his decision is a 'no-brainer' he'll be off and who could blame him? He could have an FA cup medal, premiership medal and a champions league medal come May. Its an opportunity very few pro. players would turn down.
AV -
[edit]
Good to see the Alves deal looks like going through and that Stewy will be providing the crosses for him.
I think we will be travelling to Bristol again in the cup to face Rovers
**AV writes: So I believe (winky thing)
Woodgate must be mad.
Swapping gareth's 'vision' and for what?
the carling cup final, uefa cup football, playing under a competent manager and a guaranteed top halp finish.
What is he thinking of!?!?!?!?
got to agree av i think it would be no bad thing(apart from losing a great player) to make a point to every other player that it doesnt matter who you are , if you rock the boat your out.
**AV writes: Or even if you are just not prepared to take your turn rowing.
hitchinson will never be seen regularly in a celtic shirt and will be sold within 2 years and play the rest of his career in lower leagues ...if im wrong im there to be shot down but not from what ive seen!
the woodgate transfer is surely a master stroke by mfc. baught for 7 million and sold on for 8 a few months later.
we dont even know what type of transfer boro had with Real, ie, was it a up front amount or a transfer made up of clauses down payments and money on appearances?
we could have paid 2million for him up to now and we are selling him for 8.
We have got to think woodgate has a clause in his contract of £8m and this has been activated by 3 clubs, in that case he was never going to stay in the 1st place.
The more pressing contract is of wheater. in letting woodgate move we must be sure that wheater will sign and that the opening will give him an even better chance to show what he is capable of and to improve.
Downing however is a totally different story and one that will be settled in the summer one way or the other. it looks like there has been genuine interest from tottenham and downings agent has surely told him what they would offer him contract wise. its unsettled him to the extent that gibbo has said enoughs enough and you stay till the summer.
its the the time to flush him out and see if he to has baught into the boros vision. the facts are he has 2 years on his current deal and that was only agreed 2 seasons ago.
We are in the position where time is on our side for once and we can bargain rather than the other way round. yes Downing is talented but as av says if a player wants to go and is unsettling the rest then get him out before it spreads.
Im for once on boros side here and agree witht this stance because for to long we have given into demands and let players run the show.
come on boro!!!!!!!!
Dave Morrison
I think Boro offering him a new contract would flush Downing out. It is quite common for players to have their contracts renegotiated half way through to reward the player and lock him in for another few years.
A lot of it is driven by rising wages and new players upsetting the wage structure. It doesnt help if they are chatting to other international players whilst away from the club.
We could leave it until the summer but I would like him to be put on the spot sooner rather than later so that we dont get into a "will he, wont he" during the summer. If we are going to let him go we want ink on the transfer document 1/7/08 to allow us to plan.
I still hope all will be sorted out long before then, he certainly looks to be trying hard enough.
As for Woodie's move, going to Spurs does not guarantee european football next season. If they win the UEFA Cup that is fine but in the FA Cup the runner up is guaranteed european football if the winner has already qualified in their own right, ie top four or a Uefa Cup slot.
In the Carling Cup it is winner only and the UEFA Cup spot cascades into League position as in the year Wigan were beaten finalists.
Dont know if the Gunners would be good for him because I guess Toure and Gallas would be first choice. More than likley is the fact having played for Real Wenger thinks he is Spanish.
Well, well, well.
Sheffield United in the cup! It would kind of pain me to put one over Robbo, though - for all the booing he got during his final years here, you can't ignore the fact that, as Mark Bright once put it, he "lifted (our) profile, brought in some fantastic players and established Boro as a Premiership club." Trouble is, we wanted more. We always have.
I stand by my thoughts about Woody. If the man doesn't want to play for us anymore, then don't force him. I fear, though, that this potential (it's still not finalised yet) departure may have come not so much from lack of ambition but because of the loss of his first team place.
He will claim that's because of injuries, but I've also noticed a drop in positional sense, commitment - in fact, nearly everything he showed last season, when he had to prove a point.
Reminds me of Chris Sutton when he refused to play for England's B team - he lost his place in the World Cup squad as a result. Reason? "If you're not going to pick me in the A team, don't pick me at all!" Just another player, like Woody, who thinks he has a divine right to a first team place because of who he is.
Sorry lads - if you want a first team place, you have to earn it. Something that the likes of Gary O'Neil, Tuncay, Wheater, Pogatetz, Arca and even Rocky recently have realised. (Think how close Rocky was to leaving us until the 'Gate gave him a chance again.) And look at Stewie! Still as committed as ever despite the speculation.
But then, of course, losing Woody could still have its repurcussions. Remember how Chelsea suffered when they sold Gallas and Huth? They had no backup then when Terry got injured - a key factor in them losing the title in 2006/07, in my opinion. (Then again, Woody doesn't want to be back-up...)
And finally... what if the work permit application for Alves isn't successful?
Nothing's cut and dry yet.
So, The Blades away, yet another tough draw, but we've avoided the top four. If we have Mido fit and Alves on the bench we should have an excellent chance of progressing.
Well it looks like thanks very much Woody for your efforts last season, good luck on your travels, and try not to slag the Boro off too much once you're with your next club.
We may never know whether it was the mass exodus of coaching staff and strikers in the close season that upset Woody, or differences of opinion with management, but I'm sure there will be plenty of speculation.
To be fair the club seemed to do a good job of upsetting most people in the summer, players, staff, fans and journalists included, hopefully this unsettling period of change is all worthwhile long term.
As for Downing, reading between the (rather widely spaced) lines it definitely seems he's being told to stay rather than wanting to, but to his credit, that didn't seem to affect him on Saturday, and long may that continue.
Maybe a bumper pay deal will stop the wanderlust. Him staying while Woody goes may silence the boo boys, whilst being picked for the next Egland squad may do wonders for showing him he can stay.
Finally any hope of cover for left back arriving in the window is growing slim, but otherwise I can see a nicely balanced team going forwards. Let's hope Alves is worth it, and when he goes next summer we continue this novel trend of selling players for more than we paid for them.
Good to see slapstick humour and the ridiculous still have a place on the blog Vic.
"Gareth hasn't got a clue in the transfer market". Young, Woodgate (in and out),Huth, O'Neill, Tuncay, Shawky (promising), Ali (right wing). Hope this cluelessness continues!
As for us being a stepping stone: theres news for you Einstein!! Aren't all but the very top clubs stepping stones for top players? Does anybody think Bentley, Santa Cruz, Kitson et al will still be in situ in a couple of years? Weren't Bolton just a stepping stone for Anelka?
Give a bit of credit where its due. We are short of strikers so he's gone for the best he can get. Two years and move on; probably. After all, didn't Juninho do that when Athletico came calling?
The brand of football we are trying to play is more open and attack minded its just that we need a decent striker; even Stevie Wonder could see that. Woody must go. Lets face it, its not just about football is it?
Some people eh? (Shakes head in disbelief)
I still think we need Alves and another striker in this Jan window to get clear of the drop.
Mr.realiy is slating O'Neil, Aliadiere and The Gookster.
Well , Oneil will score, 2 of his shots have been parried by the oppositions keeper for Tuncay to score- one of them against Pompy and he along with Arca and Rochembach[ great distribution against Blackburn setting the attack on its way and my man of the match against mansfeild]
Alladierre should play on the right now after one of his best performances against Mansfeild and as for Lee Dong Gook- The Gook is on fire!
Team from the start of Feb with Woody gone;
Swartz
Young Weater Huth Pogger
Aliadiere[2ofO'Neil,Arca,Roc]Downing
Tuncay Alves
Subs;
Riggot Johnson [1ofmidfeild3above] Boateng. We need another striker and left back?
I find Wengers comment,I havent spoken to Middlesbrough about Jonathan Woodgate interesting. Why didnt he say ive never spoken to Middlesbrough at all about any player,or am i being paronoid
**AV writes: I think you are being paranoid. Or maybe he is telling the truth and HE hasn't spoken to Boro. Our latest info is that Arsenal have lodged an interest but they are not the third team to have met Boro's asking price. So who is?
Downing may be staying for the time being- thank goodness - but his agent is quoted this afternoon on Sky Sports website saying that he has no intention of signing a new deal now or ever.
"Stewart has made his position quite clear to all parties at Middlesbrough - the chairman, chief executive and Gareth Southgate in private, so we are surprised by comments released by the manager saying that he has been informed that he is staying and has accepted the situation," Elliott revealed.
"Indeed he has two years left on his current contract, if he has to see out the remaining two years then so be it.
"We would point out that the previous offer from the club has been rejected out of hand, we will not enter into any further negotiations and the player will see out the two years and option his rights under freedom of contract at the end of it."
Elliott admits that the club have failed to produce a deal worthy of an England international.
"If the club value the player at £12,000,000, why didn't they make an offer reflecting that? Whilst this situation is not about money or contract now, the contract previously offered does reflect that of a player at that value," he concluded.
I don't understand the last line of this, which seems to me to be a load of complete male cow-muck. What I do understand is that either a) Boro have once again cocked up a contract negotiation or b) Gibbo refuses to be brow-beaten by unreasonable demands.
I suppose a third possibility is that the agent is just whipping things up in the hope of landing a much bigger deal.
Whatever, it would seem that the stakes have been raised in a very public and potentially damaging way, and personally, I think it stinks.
Any views on my theories, AV?
**AV writes: If the agent is suggesting Boro's 'new' offer reflects a £12m player then maybe the club have offered to double his current wages because he was worth about £6m when they signed the existing one two years ago.
If that is not good enough then maybe it is because Elliot thinks Stewy is worth more - £18m say - and should have his wages trebled instead. You can't blame him for that, maximising his client's worth is his 'job'.
But I can't help but feel that it is a little bit dishonorable that having signed the current five year deal the agent was back in asking for more within months.
Agents can't be encouraged to bang on the chairman's door asking for money every time their boy wins a couple of Man of the Match awards unless they are ready to also accept a pay cut every time he has a 'mare.
Dennis Wise to the skunks, it just gets funnier and funnier up in geordieland.
Good chance for Boro to get some points this week against Wigan and the Barcodes.
Home wins against Fulham and Reading with a chance against the under performing scousers.
All in all our relegation fears can be banished in the next five games.
C'Mon Boro!
Well it appears the other side of the coin in the Downing Saga has been revealed following his agents comments this afternoon, and could potentially be interpreted (through my own twisted mind) as:
Gibson: Stewart, youre a good player, we did need money for a striker, so we were contemplating selling you, but now Woody's going, we don't need the money, and Spurs won't stump up the £12m, so we aren't going to sell you.
Downing: Well in that case I'll not sign a new contract, and I'll be off on a Bosman in 2 years, and you'll not get a penny of the £12m you want for me.
Although I do get the feeling that his agent saying it's no longer about the money, and Stewie wouldn't re-sign at any price could possibly be readjusted should a substantial enough cheque be waived under his nose.
**AV writes: Or Boro are flying then. Or if he has a dip in form and his star wanes. Or if a new manager is in place. Or if the club signs a new best friend. Or a new agent gives him different advice... etc.
Two years is a very long time in football.
If Stewart Downing wants to leave then i think he should be allowed to although i really hope he stays! He is one of Boro's best players and one of their few internationals!
Alves arrival sounds hopeful! Hope it goes ahead.
re Ian Gill,
Yes I totally agree that offering a player a contract half way through the season is good practise but how often does it happen outside the top 4?
Look at Richards at Man City, you could say he is in the same position as Downing, linked with moves, contract on the table for a long time waiting to be signed. its how footballs going.
Players are putting the word out what they are offered and clubs are getting gazumped when these players know what they can get else where.
Downing must surely look to Bentley at Blackburn, again just been offered a contract but in an interview the other day he says, " I love being at Blackburn and the manager is top class but you never know whats around the corner in football and i take it 90 minutes at a time".
Football is full of propaganda and mind games, players know how strong they are and agents run the show, simple as that.
sky sports,
DOWNING WILL NOT SIGN BORO CONTRACT.
agent says Downing will see out remainder of contract and exercise his right to move under freedom of contract.
whats going on AV?
**AV writes: It couldn't be much clear than that. It is down to Boro now to give him a reason to change his mind.
Well Mr Downing has certainy been flushed out now. Whether his agent is stirring it or not (and like Clive I was baffled by the last line from Mr Elliott) is immaterial.
Mr Elliott has almost certainly reinforced the opinions of a section of Boro fans who take no encouragement to have a go at Stewie. Tomorrow night could be be a watershed. If Boro do poorly Stewie may well get the blame for everything from pies being too hot to the underpass.
Is Mr Elliott deliberately raising the stakes with three days to the window closing to try and engineer Stewie to follow his mate Woodie. This follows on from Mido's comments about keeping the best players and could hint at a lack of harmony in the camp at the worst possible time.
On a positive side I cant see Downing not trying whatever the stand off (true or not). His mates are still Boro fans and he is a local lad.
Downing needs to take a long hard look at the advice he’s been receiving from his agent.
He’s not attracting interest from the ‘Big Four’, he’s not attracting interest from overseas, he’s not an England ‘regular’ (nor likely to be given the approach of Mr Capello) and the grass isn’t that greener on the side occupied by those clubs bidding for his services.
In essence, the intransigence threatened by his agent, on his behalf, if Boro do come back with an improved offer is badly misplaced.
Downing has to accept that he has a value to this club and be reminded that he is under contract, a contract he signed (negotiated by his agent) in circumstances that are not much different to now i.e. Tottenham showing interest in an occasional England International.
But, if he wants to sulk his way through the next two years, then let him! I do believe Mr Mendieta is looking for a golfing partner. What a reference that will be for his next employers and an example to Capello of what he might want to avoid in his squads.
My view is take the money and run. This club doesn’t need players that don’t want to play for it and we certainly don’t want to be dealing with agents like his.
Viduka, Yakubu, Woodgate and eventually Downing if we are to believe his agent, all gone or going and for what?
Did they help Middlesbrough achieve something this season? Are we in the final of the Carling Cup? Are we in the top 4, have we been acknowledged by any pundit this season as something special? Even Setanta don't want us on the telly!
If these players had really helped the club then perhaps they might by now have proved their worth. Instead they are under some belief that because of a price tag placed upon them by who knows who, they should command wages far in excess of what the club can pay.
Help the club to achieve before expecting a huge wage hike. Most other workers get paid on results, so let's see Downing and co earn their present wages then and only then might they expect more.
AV Does Downing have to stay at Boro even if he doesn't want to?
Not having seen Alves in a match only video clips of his goals, I believe he is a natural goal scorer who will manage at least twenty goals a season at the Boro.
Some of the goals were only half chances but he found the net. He is young and very likely will improve playing in a footballing team that have shown they know how to pass the ball and retain possession in a very professional manner recently.
With the right sort of service from the likes of Downing, Aliaderie, and Tuncay, with a fit Mido alongside him Boro will be a potent force to be reckoned with in the latter stages of this season.
Sorry to see Woodgate go but if we needed the eight Million to facilitate the Alves transfer it may turn out to be a very clever piece of business by the Boro, as Woodgate:s recent form and availability was not up to standard.
Woodgate:s transfer may also open the door for the continued improvement and advancement of Wheater. All in all if we get Alves things are looking much brighter at the Riverside
Downing situation as I see it is as follows.
1.he has been publically courted by Spurs for some time.
2.They hardened up their interest to the extent that Downing believed that it was just a matter of the clubs agreeing a fee.Mentally he had prepared himself to leave.
3. The move collapsed and if the Sun is correct there is criticism by the Downing camp of them for pulling out.There is also suggestion that Ramos is not fussed about him anyway so it may be gone for good.
4.Latest criticism of Spurs and Boro is like a schoolchild spitting his dummy out. With Woodgate unexpectedly going to Spurs instead this has rubbed salt into the wound.
I would have thought that anybody advising him would be better advised shutting up and telling Downing to perform to his best. If he refuses any new contract then the club will eventually sell him rather than let him run his contract down.
Who would be a football manager, selling, losing, persuading, buying????, and laying the law down in Stewies case.
I am sure we will be all happy when the window closes, as long as we get the striker we want and he delivers.
However difficult as it is, we must protect ourselves with our potential assets, we could have lost Downing all those years ago, Mclaren did not see too much in him.
Wheater also would have been lost if Darlington could have stumped up the transfer fee, and now Hutchinson for nothing. How many other potential "gems" are not tied up?
Back to Woody for a second...
"Of all the clubs Woody could have gone to when he left Madrid he chose his beloved Boro, a team he dreamed of playing for since he was a boy."
That's one interpretation. Another is that he chose a small club where he knew he would get picked, could work his way back to fitness and put himself in the shop window before moving on.
I don't think boyhood dreams have much of an impact on a modern day footballer - nor should they. The important thing is that Boro did well out of it. We got an excellent year out of him and sold him at a profit. Can't be bad.
Money makes the world go around. Local boy, foreign import, Premier league journeyman - given the chance they will all move on if they think they can get a better deal elsewhere.
Yakubu, Viduka, Woodgate - they are not the first and won't be the last. Lets just try and get as much as we can for them and move on.
Downing and his agent taking on Gibson is a mistake, except of course Stewy will probably get his move.
Bob wrote...
Back to Woody for a second...
"Of all the clubs Woody could have gone to when he left Madrid he chose his beloved Boro, a team he dreamed of playing for since he was a boy."
That's one interpretation. Another is that he chose a small club where he knew he would get picked, could work his way back to fitness and put himself in the shop window before moving on.
I don't think boyhood dreams have much of an impact on a modern day footballer - nor should they. The important thing is that Boro did well out of it. We got an excellent year out of him and sold him at a profit. Can't be bad.
I hear what you say mate, but as long as it doesn't come back to haunt us when Huth and others are back on the physio bench and we have no good cover, that's all.
We have long since talked about having a small squad and I don't see how getting rid of Woodgate before the summer and safety is wise, other than we " had " no choice but to cash in because we are too skint to keep him and buy a decent striker as well, which isn't a good place to be in.
Our defence is solid again now, but not so long ago it was leaking more than the titanic and I just hope GS hasn't misjudged the situation by having his eye only on the now.
I would have been far more cautious and kept him until the summer, even if it meant not making as much money on him.
But I do hear what you're saying mate, time will tell how these decisions pan out.
We have some really tough fixtures coming up and so the next games against Wigan and Fulham are critical.
TB
May be Stewie should concentrate on becoming a much better player instead of trying to re-open his recent contract that he was happy to agree to at the time. He must have known what he was going to get paid and for how long.
On his performace this season, his contract does not warrant re-opening and the reality is no one has made a bid for him, not Tottenham not anyone so his "value" hasn't changed.
Perhaps if his game was a key, indispensable, component of the side like Ronaldo's is at at Man U, or even just consistently at the top level, SG would offer him a pay rise in exchange for a contract extension.
There is much more to the Woodgate transfer than can be posted on this blog.
As Ian has mentioned, Downing agent has been none to clever in his choice of words. If Downing thinks that he has received stick from the crowd in the past he will now get slaughtered after what his agent has said.
This may be what Elliot wants so that he can keep using it as an excuse for justifying Downing leaving.
I think the club have told him to stay, see how it goes till the end of the season and then if he still wants out will sell him in the summer.
3 points tonight please, the unveiling of Alves before kick off will give the crowd and the team a nice boost.
C'Mon Boro!!
Never Happy
Living away I am not privvy to the gossip doing the rounds but make judgements from the evidence in front of me.
I think you are probably right about Woodgates transfer. Add in the comments by both Pogi and Mido about not selling the best players. Spice the mix with Elliotts ringing endorsement of Downings contract negotiations albeit toned down by the fact he may have a vested interest or two. It all points to a little turbulence at Hurworth.
I suppose the players just get on with it, lets see the fans reaction tonight. Downing may well be in for a rough ride, if he doesnt play and the treatment will be even worse when he does because he will be accused of ducking out.
I have just had an abusive email from John Powls when I pointed there are only three days left in the window and Michael Ricketts move to QPR hasnt completed yet. I suppose suggesting Ricketts was buy one get one free wasnt the best thing to tell him.
Widow Twanky [ Steve Bruce ] is trying to play some Ferguson style mind games with us before the match giving it -"I always say that you're only as good as your strikers," he said.
"Your strikers are what win you a match, keep you in a division or win you a cup - that's why they cost the most money.
Okay he may have Heskey, Marcus Bent, Sibiersky, Marlon King and Aghahowa . Don’t worry lads,we have Tuncay and Lee Dong Gook- The Gook is on Fire?
We really need another striker even if we do get Alves
Eidur Gudjohnson?
Downings gonna get some stick after his agents lovely comments. His agent is gonna benefit from the tension he created by earning if Downing moves on due to the fans booing him and unsettling him.
I hope Downing has a blinder tonight and the fans get behind him!
I think the overriding factor in the Woody saga and eventual transfer is that he wanted to leave.
There appeared to be issues between him and the club, possibly even with his team mates, so it was inevitable that the club would eventually call his bluff.
They did, and he's gone.
Whether it will prove to be the right or wrong decison for either party, particularly Boro, remains to be seen.
Now we are probably faced with Round 2 of star departures in the summer after Downing's agents comments yesterday.
I tend to agree with some of the other posts that he has probably been advised by the club to sit tight until the closed season, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stewy gets slaughtered tonight, even if some of what has been said is not of his making.
I certainly don't think a certain Mr Gibson will be too pleased either after allegedly clearing the air with wonder boy last week.
tonyblack wrote...
Our defence is solid again now, but not so long ago it was leaking more than the titanic and I just hope GS hasn't misjudged the situation by having his eye only on the now.
In the 16 games Woodgate has played this season we've conceded 30 times. In the 9 games he's missed we've let in 8. Perhaps the gaping hole beneath the waterline has been plugged.
downing and his agent are pitifull and stupid.
I
'm an england international and i can stand like beckham before i take a free kick. wooooo hoooo, well done mate there you go theres 50k a week.
It makes me mad that these agents are controlling football and touting players around. The BBC discovered it a few season ago with porritt and chelsea but what are the repercussions? nowt thats what.
People can talk and thats not illegal but as others have said players know who are interested and what they can get far in advance of a transfer fee being agreed.
How did boro agree a contract with Alves before we agreed a fee with Herenveen?
Football is getting worse and the fans are those who will loose out. Downing is being very childish and his agent should be shown the door.
Any way which night clubs in London would let Downing DJ? not many cos I've heard it and its rubbish - another thing he thinks he is better at than he actually is.
Come on Boro......
lets not boo stewy
Tonight is such a important game for our club, as is the next few fixtures, come on lads lets get behind the team for the win, booing stewy aint gonna help anyone other than wigan....
Ian - we had the Egyptian version of Ricketts coming on a a sub on Saturday, so we don't need the real thing thanks.
Ian Elliots anxiety for a new contract are due in part to his failure in the original contract negotiation with MFC.
He obviously failed to recognise at the time that he had a young up and coming professional with great potential. If he had he would have wanted a shorter contract term or would have had review clauses pending upon criteria such as league position, cup runs, goals and International appearances etc.
The fact that he has failed to negotiate a suitable contract (where's the get out clause at £8/10/12m?) in the 1st instance would make me sceptical of his ability to negotiate a 2nd one or indeed a suitable transfer for Stewy.
Whether Stewy stays or goes is up to him, what he does need at this crucial and pivotal point in his career is sound and competent advice. If Stewy thinks that Mr Elliot is that individual then good luck to him because if the present pantomime continues then he is going to need it.
There again perhaps Stewy has sought good advice and that is why Mr Elliot is suddenly very perplexed and very verbose.
It will be a miracle if all this hype from his agent doesn't transmit itself to Stewart on the pitch. Now is when we need to get behind him. Save the abuse for the one who created the mess not the local lad who is being manipulated and touted like a cheap tart.
Never Happy
In the words of the Bangles can he 'walk like an Egyptian'? With both of them Newboulds may be able to re-open.
Nirnaeth Arnoediad -
mate, this is so typical narrow minded boro fan that its unreal. when he came from madrid he was the homecoming, one of us, king of the boro back four and future captain and now hes cone hes useless - what a load of cobblers.
This is so not the right decision and and at worst proves that the club is either potless or that theres trouble at mill.
Woody's a *legend* and when fit hes probably the best in the league and england class all the way. Downing also looks set to go at some point and so i think its safe to say that not everyone has bought into the Southgate way of working (amateurville / outofhisdeapthville) and not everyone agrees that club has been turned around by the hiring of a new pr bloke.
Or are woody and downing now cast out as mercernaries alla zenden, ravanelli, viduka, yakubu and so on ??????
UP THE BORO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone in the Boro/Downing camp has not thought this through fully.
Downing is aware that some fans are not on his side. If he told Elliott to blab to the press he knows it wont go down well with his less supportive fans, it will probably alienate his colleagues and have an adverse effect on the team.
If Elliott acted on his own he is showing scant regard for his clients interests. If Downing told him to go public he should have counselled caution.
There may be mis information between the parties. There may be incompetence by one or all of the people involved. We do not know what or how the club stated its position, those of us with wives know that if you ask them are they all right the answer is 'fine', if you ask them what is the matter the answer is 'nothing'. The one thing we know is fine and nothing do not mean that at all. Hopefully there has been some miscommunication though I doubt it.
Whatever, it is a bit of a mess, we are not the first nor the will be the last club to be in this situation. Shame it is so close to a set of crucial matches.
My concern is the effect on the results, as Dennis states above booing will only help Wigan. Bruce will be telling his troops we are in disarray and to have a go because the fans will get on the teams back, score a goal and with our limited striking resources we could be in trouble.
A Derby supporting colleague is off to William Hills to take advantage of the 3-1 odds on a Wigan win. You wouldnt argue it isnt worth a flutter.
Blame the Agent not the lad!
Downings Agents comments are a mass of conflicting emotions , just like my wife once a month.
We want Downing to stay and are busy trying to get some success in this small transfer window -Now is not the time Ian Elliot! But I will buy you a lovely dress on Feb the 14th if you stop rocking the boat.
This turbulence is not gonna help Downing's value if his performance dips due to disenchantment with the club.
Dont you just love Agents!
Up the boro!
I am going to the wigan match tonight and i really hope that stewy doesn't get booed. It will only make him feel worse and we don't even know what he thinks, only what his agent has said. I really hope that he stays so Boro have got to improve quickly and get their best players interested in the club.
Capello could be watching the match tonight so all the english players will be trying to impress anyway. I think we all need to support Boro players rather than boo them afterall that is one of the reasons Downing is considering a move elsewhere. I'm going to cheer extra loud tonight and hope that Stewy stays!!
I agree totally Lauren, Downing shouldn't be booed. We don't know the full story and footballers can often be ill advised.
And even if he genuinely feels the way he feels with where we are now in the league we need everyone to be leave their grievances at the turnstiles and focus on cheering the lads on.
Tonight must be about the football and nothing else, we must win and the tomorrow is another day when we can debate as much as we want. But to boo is only going to hurt ourselves.
There's absolutely no reason why we can't and shouldn't win tonight.
UP THE BORO.
TB
Redcar Red - “It will be a miracle if all this hype from his agent doesn't transmit itself to Stewart on the pitch. Now is when we need to get behind him. Save the abuse for the one who created the mess not the local lad who is being manipulated and touted like a cheap tart.�
Spot-on, his agents inept handling of the contract and his client in general should be shown for what it is. We can’t let chancers like this guy ‘rule the roost’. Let’s show Elliot (and his ilk) that contracts work both ways.
The more I read about this Elliot, the more convinced I am that it is Downing who is being manipulated, which is why I’m shifting my position. Keep Downing until an offer meeting our valuation is received. We can’t lose, he didn’t cost us anything. Wake-up and smell the coffee brewing Elliot, the decks stacked in our favour!
If he stays for the next two years and continues to perform (and improve), all the better for us – even if he does go on a free - we’ve seen how difficult it can be trying to replace key positions under pressure.
With the ability and time for succession planning on our side, the money that we could get for him now will look like a good investment in two years time.
I’d like to say that as a local lad his pride alone should mean that he will continue to represent us to the best of his ability. But, suffice to say, he can’t afford to let his performances slip with a new England manager planning for the next World Cup.
Some of the comments on here suggesting that Downing is'nt responsible for his agent's comments are crazy.
Downing has his own mind and if he disagrees with his agents comments then it is easy for him to come out and say what he feels.
The truth is, maybe he does deserve more money than the Boro are offering, but there are better ways for him to get a better deal for himself than the approach he is taking now. The way he is behaving now makes people who spend their hard earned money on the Boro sick.
If he does'nt want to play for tthe Boro or thinks he is bigger than the club then get shot, or even better throw him in the youth team and let him rot. And if it is all the agents doing, then get a mind of your own Stewy.
Lee Drury:
Lee, I'm inclined to be a bit more generous towards Stewart Downing than you are suggesting.
Ian Elliot alone was reported as stating that Stewart Downing wouldn't sign a new contract. The quotation was only given in the last 24 hours while Boro playing staff were deep in preparation for an extremely important mid-week match against Wigan.
I suspect Stewart Downing was quite unaware of what his agent was saying publicly.
Hard-nosed agents such as Elliot are, quite frankly, much more worldly than their youthful charges and I seriously doubt if Elliot asked Stewart Downing's permission to say what he did.
Elliot's nose is clearly out of joint because of his failures (on two counts - his failure to secure a deal for his client that would represent his changing worth while he grew in stature during his time at Boro and his failure to get Boro to capitulate to his tantrums before and during the current transfer window.)
Whilst I agree that Downing's free-market value is probably greater than his current salary, he's hardly in penury and he's hardly past it!
Also, there are indications from the club that they will be prepared to recognise Downing's improved contribution before the end of his current contract. This strikes me as a wholly professional and fair way of going about things.
Ian Elliot in upping the ante and going public with his tirade, has only served himself badly.
Unlike his agent, Stewart Downing through his footballing performances continues to demonstrate the professional qualities that make Boro value him.
And it will be those qualities that will, I feel sure, lead to Boro making him as good an offer to retain him as the club can reasonably afford without compromising their finances or their wages policy.
If that offer is then unacceptable to Stewart Downing (and one feels ANY offer from Boro wouldn't now meet Elliot's demands) then Stewart will be off.
It would serve Elliot right in view of his own performance if Stewart DID go on a free transfer. You'd need to be blind not to see where the pressure to get him a move comes from!
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Great result against Wigan tonight! Boro were excellent in attack ithe first half and excellent in defense in the second.
First half shows again though how badly we need quality striking talent though. It could have been a cricket score by half-time!
From what I have heard is that woodgate became disillusioned with the club. When he signed a contract back in may, he was expecting the club to build on the squad and retain their top players and push on.
That is what they told him. Once Viduka and Yakubu left he felt the club let him down. From there he wasnt really into it and the poor start for the team didnt help.
Then the development of wheater and the problems upfront meant the club felt selling woodgate was the best thing to do to help finance a new striker. We couldn't get alves in last week because we hadn't yet clinched the deal to sell woodgate.
As soon as Woodgate is on his way mean we can push on getting Alves in. Do you think it was the clubs choice to wait until the last minute to secure a work permit?
**AV writes: There have been a lot of problems with Alves, not least the Dutch FA tribunal. It was not principally down to financing or a need to sell.