Boro Walking Fine Line On Festive Fixtures

AV

Never a truer word written.

I was beginning to see, in various places, the premature dusting off of foam hands and hear a clearing of throats for ra-ra-ing.

But I think you're being a little generous in asking for 4 points from 9. I'm looking for 4 from 6 before we go to Pompey to give us 21 points at the halfway mark.

If we get that then I may be roused to a 'ra' but nothing more yet.

Three points against West Ham and one from Birmingham would be a good return. That said we have to aim high, Boro need to go into those two games determined to get six from six, a hard task but one we are capable of.

dont worry. the prem is very poor this year. if we beat west ham and not lose against birmingham then i reckon we are safe. like you say it will be a bloodbath down there with these fixtures but after them we will be well clear.

i think the teams that go down will have record lows this year. derby might not match the mackems 19. i think if wigan dont beat fulham then they will have gone too. the other place is between fulham and the mackems.

i think 34 points might be enough to stay up and so long as we can win 1 of the next 3 then we are well on our way.

i reckon its one from fulham/wigan/

AV

I told you to stay positive.. and I am never wrong, which is why I am very happy..!

We are on a Jam Roll

Red & White

OK?

AV, as always a great article.

I read the postings every week and chuckle to myself at the mentality of the true Boro fan. When we are losing, the doom and gloom (not too dissimilar to Teesside) is felt by all, and yes rightly so. We have been very poor, showed some glimpses of what could be at West Ham, then dipped and were plain awful again.

But when we are winning, it all starts to look a bit rosey. Fans start to predict or hope for 4 and some 6 points from 2 games. Why? Why do we think after 2 wins, one very good performance, one not so good, are we going to get 4 or even 6 points? We have won 2 away games, Fulham and Derby, lucky against Fulham and Derby were plain awful.

Against Arsenal, superb performance and we wanted it more. I think GS had something to do with that. Defence played high up the pitch, something I havent seen Boro do for god knows how many years, we battled, we got men behind the ball and played down the flanks. Inspired!

The teams we are going to play over the Xmas period are not going to be easy games. Recent history counts for jack. I couldnt care less if West Ham had previously lost all their games at the Riverside in 200 years. Its what we do on Saturday that counts.

Lets take one game at a time, get behind the team, have some decent crowds and inspire them to a great performance, come what may. Bring on the Hammers!

I played a fairly high standard of football in my late teens and early twenties. Like Tuncay, a striker who wnet on a bit of a barren run. I didnt score for 12 games and lost form. The best thing in my opinion, is what GS did.

When your losing and its down to you to score, and youre not, the pressure is unbelievable. You hear and read what people say and all you want to do is pass on that resposibility to someone else. It happened with Tuncay.

He was on the bench and pressure releived from his shoulders. Against Reading, he came on second half, we were already losing, DGL was appalling, so what did he have to lose. He could do no worse. Fortunately, he scores a great goal and things are all peachey for the KIng. If he hadnt scored at Reading, I think Tuncay would have been looking to leave in January. He has now proved to all that he is worthy of being the new "King of Teesside".

On a lighter note, I contacted channel fours "Faking it" progran to see if the rumours were true about them doing a bumper Xmas edition on a premiership footballer who was previously a chef in a chinese take away in Stockton. After I was asked who I thought this footballer was, DGL, even they said they couldnt FAKE THAT! Unlucky DGL, I thought I would give you the perfect excuse.

Come on the boro, and yes I hope we do get 6 points from 2 games.

Neil H - point well made, several posters do disapear when Boro have an upturn in fortune, there are a couple of reasons for that I think.

Firstly good news doesn't need to be analysed, we won, great, enough said. However bad news can be analysed to death, change the manager, tactics, team etc etc.

Also we suffer from the Boro mentality which is part of the club/fan base culture where people take comfort and hide in negativity. Its a safe place to be because when disapointment comes every one 'expects' it and is prepared for it. It will take a lot of years of Boro success to change that I'm afraid.

On a positive note and to rise to the challenge, I for one am optimistic and excited. I can see GS building a strong team, playing attractive football,. We're still a way off being the real deal but some of our performances this season have been great and if we can find that level of performance consistently then we will see some great football and some good results.

I for one look forward to the end of the season and hopefully apologising to GS and Gibbo for ever doubting.... .

I agree about the safety of negativity and its effect on the pysche of the Boro crowd.

For generations we long suffering Boro fans have been conditioned by our experience to expect failure, either as the normal condition of the team's existence or as the automatic result that follows any attempt at ambition.

It is a Pavolvian response. Time after time we have had our hopes raised by bright new dawns (Charlton, Neal, Brucie, Robbo) only to have our teeth repeatedly kicked in by failure, liquidation, relegation and the sales of superstars and heroes.

It is a macho industrial area and crowd used to be full of dockers and ship workers, hard men who were not given to being emotionally open. There is only so many times they can drop their emotional guard only to be kicked in the teeth before they put up the shutters for good and become habitually cynical and bitter. It is Teesside's rite of passage.

I heard people coming out of the Millenium Stadium saying "oh well, thats as good as it gets, relegation next year, I think I'll wrap my Red Book in because its downhill from here on in" or words to that effect.

That is the biggest challenge facing the club, rewiring Teesside for success and encouraging people to see that every little set-back is not a disaster.

But on the flip side…

It is always the same with some Boro fans. When we are winning they are queuing up to tell us how everything about the team and the club is right right right, from tactics defending corners to the shape of the striker who ate all the pies.

But when we are losing and playing badly they all go quiet because there is nothing to shout about.

So maybe it's just our role to offer solutions when things aren't going well and try to understand why decisions are being made - also I don't like tempting fate by gloating too much after a couple of wins.

Tees Exile - More than a little harsh! And posted to deliberately stir up a strong reaction I'd suspect.

Bitter and cynical? well maybe a little disillusioned, brought on from some of the ill advised comments made pre-season by the club, which along with poor performances has led to drops in attandances, booing and criticism.

Fickle - absolutely! which fans aren't? Hateful, creatively stupid and bloody minded idiot? All way over the top.

Boro is and always has been a poor northern working class area with a lack of jobs. This is always going to mean the majority of supporters will have this background, and aren't likely to be Oxbridge graduates - but they do generally have and express much greater ambitions for their team than they do for themselves.

Give them something to cheer about and they will cheer with the best of them.

Blimey, I'm not quite sure how we got from AV's thread to here, but the heated debate on the pro's and cons of the negative/positive supporter must mean the team are doing okay! Let's hope this theme continues for the rest of the season. What we need is a post from Diablo Derek so we can unite against a common enemy.

Teesside Resident, I think you're a little off the mark the posters on here are a mix of residents and exiles and I would say those two groups probably have an equal split of pessimists and optimists.

What Boro have though are the 'chicken runners' who look for every opportunity to critisise. I sat at Wembley in the League cup final against Leicester next to a bloke who started moaning and criticising the Boro before the players started warning up.

Given that it was our first appearance in a major final that was pretty hard to take and harder to understand. By the way, I have no idea where he lived.

jc - Given that Robin Mitton is now working with Paris St Germain I assume he has enrolled at the Sorbonne.

Neil H wrote...

"It is slow on here this week.

It is always the same with Boro fans. When we are losing they are queuing up to tell us how everything about the team and the club is wrong worong wrong, from tactics defending corners to the shape of the half time pies.

But when we are winning and playing well they all go quiet because there is nothing to moan about. "

I for one posted my congratulations to all concerned in the other short lived blog topic, and I'm all too happy to repeat it now.

I'd also go as far as to say that I'd be more than extremely happy to see GS on the Manager Of The Month award shortlist at the moment, with him having every chance of him winning it, and deservedly so if we keep going as we have done it the last three games.

Although we musn't get carried away and stay totally focused on the job in hand and bettering what we have achieved in the last three games.

Anything that can highlight and raise the profile of the club and the area is absolutely vital for attracting good new players and investment into the area in general and so I for one will be cheering everyone one all the way.

Does this mean I think GS's the right and best man for the job ? Absolutely Not.

Does this mean I think it was right to put such a big club in the hands of two rookies ? No Chance.

Does this mean that I still think that he's clearly learning as he goes and making endless mistakes along the way ? Yes, Absolutely.

Could he one day be a first class manager ? Why not ?

But at the end of the day if he does or doesn't, I will never accept that this was an acceptable risk for the club to take.

That's my opinion.

I've said all along that I personally take no delight in being right and desperately want to be proved wrong.

The internal problems at the club as have been discussed ad infinitum in here for me still exist. But even here I was all too happy to applaud the club for the email they sent to fans because even if it isn't perfect as an idea or solution, it at least shows that they are reacting to the fans complaints and concerns and are trying to come up with solutions.

I'm always of the opinion that it's better late than never, and I look forward to offering my opinion and ideas should the club ask for them via the Gazette etc., as AV said may happen.

You can say what you like about my opinions, but you cannot label me as wanting the club to fail so that I can come in here and gloat.

WELL DONE ALL - MORE PLEASE. LOTS.

TB

Lets not get carried away just yet. We hit form against an arsenal team off form. Derby are worse than sunderland of a few years ago.

At least Southgate has finally realised Tuncay is one of our best players, best goals scorers and better than Hutchinson and Lee. God knows what Southgate was thinking to take so long to give Tuncay a chance.

All we need is Aliadiere to get some goals!!

**AV writes: "an Arsenal off form"? They were unbeaten!

Dave - There is still along way to go before Boro are safe, however if the players put in 100% effort every game then no one can complain.

It is bad enough that the national media tell the country that Boro only beat Arsenal because the Gunners did not perform, without Boro fans doing the same.

The truth is that a fired up Boro outfought Arsenal in every area of the pitch. They did not allow Arsenal to play and the Boro's work rate (and some fantastic football) earned them the victory.

Every time Boro beat one of the so called big four, accoding to the media its because the opposition had an off day.

The team and management get enough stick on this blog, so I for one am happy to give credit where credit is due.

Boro beat Arsenal because they were the better team, Boro beat a fired up Derby (first game at home under a new boss) because they deserved to do so.

Boro will beat West Ham as there is a new found confidence in the squad,. This comes from beating the previously unbeaten Gunners and GS playing the team in positions that they are happy with.

It has been a long time coming but Boro are now on the up, I am sure we will all still have times when we can have a good whinge at the club, but lets enjoy it whilst we are winning.

If you are unable to do that, whats the point of following the team.

Happy Christmas to all made better by Boro getting 8 points from the next four games.

C'Mon Boro!!

Dave - Arsenal off form! We're the only team to beat them so far this season in league or domestic cups, they drew at Newcastle before the Riverside and they beat Chelsea afterwards, for gods sake give credit where its due and enjoy the moment.

I'm with Never Happy, I think Boro are on the up, although two wins in a row isn't definitive proof but the indications are there. What I do know is that I'm looking forward with eager anticipation to the West ham game.

Success in the prem. is all about gathering momentum, another win would be another big step forward.

Also the tantalising prospect of watching Tuncay play every week is fantastic.

AV - The posts on this thread have been terrific, I don't think we need your posts to act as a catalyst for a while. Have Christmas off and when you come back you'll be writing about Boro going undefeated having gained 8/9 points in four games!!!

**AV writes: Christmas off? Your recommendation has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

Nine points?

Dave - Come on now we played very well even Arsene said so.

I'm determined not to be my usual miserable self at christmas and rather than join you in the "we're doomed" group I predict the following pantomime will the enacted:

The ugly sister 'Cissy' Schwarzer (Boo! Boo!) will shy out when going for a ball with the wicked Baron Von Ashton which is 70/30 in Cissy's favour. 1 - 0 to the Jellied Eels.

Dick Wheatington (he's behind you !) will then clatter the wicked Baron with the ball breaking to the graceful dapper and dainty 'Buttons ONeil' and the cor blimey stone the crows cockney Boro hero makes it 1-1

Last scene.

Following a collision between 'Danny Wheresitgone' and 'Lucas Loadsamoney Neil' the ball finds itself at the feet of our own 'Prince Stewart of Berwick Hills'.

A wonderous cross finds Tuncay the Turkish Alladin and 'strewth, how's your father,youravinalaugh, hoppin in kent, the blitz it's 2-1 to the Boro.

Then we can all go 'dahn the pub' !

Actually I'm 'havin a pony' on Gary O'Neil to score the first.

So Anthony if you see Gary tell him his first touch has been good he just needs a bit more composure when shooting and he needs to ensure he gets a 'sweet' connection don't try too hard and find the bottom corner. Then we'll both have a very happy christmas.

AV

I see the usual pre-January transfer window message has appeared in today's Gazette.

I don't know whether the names you quote that we have alleged to have enquired for have any more validity as real targets for Boro than the, frankly, embarrassing bid made for Ronadinho.

It's no surprise that the 2 you mention would have turned us down in our current parlous state and, like the Ronaldinho effort, may just be there to tempt the gullible into believing the club line about the possibility of big money/big name signings when the truth is buried lower in the text - we may get someone on loan late in the window but the likelihood is that we're stuck with what we've got.

If and when he returns, Mido will be greeted with the epithet 'just like a new signing' and we may have to be satisfied with that. A bit like having last year's Xmas presents re-wrapped and presented to you as 'good as new'.

But all of that doesn't mean we should have to accept more Simbas either.

So, can you please exert whatever considerable influence you have on Gazette editorial to stop linking us with the dead wood lurking in the festive bran tubs of other British clubs squads.

If it's your sources at the Club that are feeding the line then you don't need to use it without a health warning as you have done today.

Today's example is the execrable Daniel Cousin from Rangers. Vassell, Samaras et al are others.

You rightly point out that barrel scrapings from foreign leagues - such as Dica and Baros - are not likely to be the instant hit that we need.

But neither are imports of other non-scorers from this side of the channel.

If the right quality can't be sourced through a transfer, as you say, loans may work.

One target we should have gone for in the Summer and who was strongly supported on this blog was Bendtnar from the Gunners.

He's closer to their first team now than he was then, because of injuries but he my be available on loan.

**AV writes: There was no bid for Ronaldinho, it was a mischevous agent using the media to alert Chelsea et al.

At risk of being indiscreet, we have today's line direct from an unimpeachable source.

The situation is this: there is no transfer war chest, no money to squander on short term fixes in January - but if a top quality long term addition to the squad becomes available then the finances will be found to push it through and there will be no shortage of effort or ambition to do so.

If there is no top quality signings available then the cash will be limited and it may be that it will be a loan or two in key positions to get us through until the summer.

Whether quality comes onto the market is the key thing.

Nigel

Appropriate authorities can be useful.

Last years attendance for the Charlton match was due in some part to appropriate authorities stating 'price have been reduced, no excuses, take the kids to the match so I can get the lot of you out from under my bloody feet so I can get something done.'

It also worked in my case because my brother and his wife couldnt get to see us, my daughter had started a saturday job and there was no way to swop pressies. The solution? 'Why dont you take them up and go to the match so I can get something done ready for Xmas' and 'If Ian and Alex are coming up why dont you go the match as well so I can get the wrapping done in peace.'

The things we do to help out.

Onto transfer targets, dont expect much activity early on and I certainly dont want non striking strikers, got plenty already. Dont want defenders who cant defend or midfield players who cant pass. Nor are we the national rehabilitation centre for damaged footballers, sorry, that should read we should not be national rehabilitation centre for damaged footballers, done enough charitable work in that area.

Finally, praise is due for the work footballers do to help in the community.

Batten down the hatches, lads and lasses -the impossible has happened! Lawrenson has tipped Boro to beat the Hammers 2-0. Just when I thought our luck was changing!

I'm not taking any chances after this. I'm gonna wear me Cardiff shirt on Saturday, I'll have me lucky hat on, not to mention me lucky underpants. And I'll have a pocket full of lucky sweets, too, ("pear-shaped drops") so I can change the shape of the game too if we have to and suck the ball into West Ham's net.

C'mon Boro!

" But as a statement of intent and a signal that we can compete then bids for the likes of Crouch or, say, Gudjohnsen are symbolically powerful. "

AV. If we can put aside the fact that we are fans, I thinks it totally false / unjustifiable to think that these are symbolically powerful words.

Personally, I think that this is the usual empty smoke and mirrors game that Lamb and Gibson just love to play when they have no cash to spend. They can make these noises in the full knowledge that only mad men, old timers and the unwanted would ever come here at the moment.

Why would these types of players come here at this present moment in time ?

What would they be coming for exactly ?

Strong and powerful would be to first employ the highest possible rated coach that would come here and to pay him what he wants and then to allow him to bring in his own staff, just as England have done.

They too tried to go down the rookie / loser type road and look where it got them.

This is how to signal that a club has serious intentions.

Am I wrong ? No, I don't that I am because if Gisbon had had 100 million plus to invest in players he wouldn't have hired bloody Southgate and Coops to manage them, would he ?

Gibson didn't have the money or even the
desire to hire as best that he could afford as he likes to be this maverick, anti establishment figure who absolutely climaxes at his God like power of being able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

I don't personally think that we have any chance of attracting these types of players until we get a top class manager and coaching staff and are able to announce that we have " X " amount to spend.

When you tell the press that you have money to spend but not to burn it means that you are skint.

Good players don't go to skint clubs who aren't in Europe, won't be next season and have no chance of winning it even if they were.

TB

I agree with Ian Oliver.

A serious and sustained challenge on the top spots (1-7) can only be made by clubs prepared and able to spend hugely.

Mid-table survival is very likely to be the best Boro can hope for this season and in any season to come, without massive cash injection which is beyond Steve Gibson's current means.

(It's probably also beyond Steve Gibson's future means also, if he wants the club's balance sheet and P/L Statements to remain on any kind of believable and solvent footing. Regretably, the fundamentals are wrong for it to be otherwise for Boro).

Sorry! But there you have the stark facts. (I'm afraid I'm of the Richard Dawkins school of thought that relies on factual evidence, rather than either sentiment or brainwashing - or both!)

Nice to see a few recent good results though! But let's not get too carried away about what is likely to be achievable with resource levels as they are.

Short term, a win against West Ham for starters will be good. Longer term a few further "promising" results gaining points here and there will help, but as far as getting up there and playing with the big boys - well, resources won't permit it.

Why? - Because despite our ambitions, which arguably could be said to match everyone else's, our actual capabilities are constrained by spending, which is constrained in turn by income, which is in turn constrained by numbers of punters prepared to support Boro with their cash in whatever form. And there are far fewer of us than there are prepared to support others.

Please don't get me wrong. I really DO wish it was otherwise. I'd LOVE to see Boro as a sustainable top 6 side year-on-year.

But it ain't gonna happen!

What an old romantic I am!

Barmby, Juninho, Ravanelli, Boksic, Ince, Ziege, Viduka, Karembeu, Merson, Hasselbaink, Southgate, Yakubu - established internationals and winners. They all came to Boro. What makes anyone think that a few benchwarmers like Crouch and Defoe won't?

The real question is do we want them? I would say no. Especially Defoe. Dig in, get this season out of the way, get the new TV money in the bank and start working on getting a few real gems lined up for next year.

Come on guys, clearly Boro are looking to buy a good striker. They clearly feel that it is worth trying to get one in January and why not?

We all know that the likelyhood is that no good striker is going to be allowed to move in January or would want to.

That said it puts a marker down for the Summer. That is when the action always happens. Forget about January, we may get a loan signing as a stop gap to give us some cover for the second half season.

I find all you cynics out there jumping at the opportunity to take a pop at the club a little hard to take. As AV has rightly pointed out the club has made no announcement about potential transfer activity.

AV

Symbolically powerful?

Over the years I have learned that when it comes to our beloved Boro the use of 'symbolic' can be split down as 5% sym and 95% bolics.

How about being actually powerful for a change - less talk, more do. And even from what you say this is all talk. Are we selling half-season tickets or something? Oh, yes.

Any club can put in frivolous bids for any player knowing they have no chance of success. How is that impressive?

I was much more impressed with, and much more inclined to believe, The Count's terse, unequivocal 'hands off' statement about Stewie and Johnno.

There are 2 or 3 strikers out there with some pedigree and definite potential who could be both quick fix and longer term fixture.

But getting them requires no Xmas parlour games of 'Call My Bluff' but solid research and stealthy work behind the scenes with the deal being announced when it is done.

Tell me that's happening and I would be impressed, if not shocked.

On to more pressing matters. We are being softened up again for the latest string of injuries - aside from the ones we already know about.

Stewie - well, not good, but survivable with Johnno on standby but I also saw O'Neil mentioned and that loss would be the most damaging, particularly if it runs on through the vital Xmas period.

Coupled with this Lawro has backed us against The Hammers!

Our improved defending will be called on. They are going to be without Bellamy and Cole but Ashton is a real handful so Wheats and Woody are going to need to be on song as are the full backs as he has a tendency to pull wide and compete with the full backs in the air.

With Pogo at left back my guess is that he's going to be all over Luke Young so we're going to need to watch the knock downs, second balls and third men running from midfield. That Harry Lime is very difficult to pick up!

On the plus side their defence is good in the air but can be vulnerable to pace, trickery and passing through them which would suit Stewie/Johnno, Tuncay and Aliadiere - it did when we played them at Upton Park.

When the chances come we must nail them which is what we failed to do that time, whilst allowing them to score with the only 3 chances they fashioned that afternoon.

If Stewie and O'Neil aren't fit - and assuming Catts isn't hung over - we should go with Johnno, The Boat, Catts and Arca in midfield.

Can we please omit Simba from the bench too. Hutch or Craddock or even Huth played as a striker or to free Wheats to play there (and that shows real desperation) are better bets than the Korean.

3 points are a must and we should be able to get them but I'll wait to see what sort of team we can field before I can judge what chance I think we have of overturning the Lawro jinx.

Richard

Talking of facts - how would Prof. Dawkins account for, say, Blackburn, Pompey and more latterly Reading?

They have built up or are building up the sort of year on year performance and progress that we should be able to aspire to with crowds far less than we have and with no sugar-oligarch that is markedly more wealthy than Gibbo.

In the cases of Blackburn and Pompey, their grounds and training facilities aren't a patch on ours.

A study of their trading accounts would show them no better or worse placed than us.

Everton surely get better crowds than us now but have been on the brink of bankruptcy several times recently but have built back year on year and invested what they have earned through improved performance in what have generally been canny but not extravagant buys.

It can and is being done. These are the examples we must seek to learn from and follow, otherwise we'll be right back to the yo-yo era that we thought we had escaped for solid Prem security.

Or even worse we slip out of the Prem and keep on slipping - like Leeds, Sheff Wed., Notts Forest etc.

**AV writes: Those teams are at the top of their cycles of rise and fall. Middling teams take it in turns to be "this year's model" - Ipswich, Charlton even Boro have been lauded as well managed clubs' with admirable strategies for success and held up as templates for success.

Last year it was Bolton, this year it is Blackburn. These things are very fragile: a manager is lured away, a couple of players leave or retire, one bad season and then suddenly they are back where they began.

Boro are down in the bottom six when it comes to revenue and have done incredibly well to win a trophy and play in Europe. Now we are at the one step back stage.

It is no use chasing some other club's template because they have one good season. We need to develop a sustainable long term strategy that can help Boro compete without risking everything on chasing the dream.

I have outlined my own model - a fancentric community club based on an enhanced academy and a scouting and coaching network that finds the best lower league talent early and sells at a profit - but it is not the only one.

bloody hell.. whats happening, the physio room now shows us as having 10 players out.

O'Neill is out and there is no return date, what do they know that the Boro have not told us?

C'Mon Boro!

**AV writes: O'Neil took a knock at Derby and has had a scan. He is said to be do 'doubtful' for West Ham. We think he could play at a push but will probably be rested until the games after Xmas.

Never Happy

We should still be able to get a decent team out. The defence and attack will be the same as last week, it is in midfield where we may struggle.

We know Rocky and O'Neill are definites. Hopefully Stewie and Arca will be OK. We could then either play both Stewie and Jinky. The alternative is to bring Cat in right side. I would have suggested Simba but to this day I dont know if he is left or right footed, he falls over equally well off either foot.

We can even change to 352 if needs be so that Young and Pogo can push on.

The main thing will be showing the same attitude and tempo as against Arsenal. Do that and the result will look after itself, if West Ham turn in a super performance good look to them but dont make it easy for tehm.

Well folks there could be a few changes for the home match at a time when we were starting to get a bit of consistency but I think that the players coming in will do us proud.

Adam Johnson can do a good job and if Cattermole comes in he needs to use controlled aggression and keep it tight.
Hopefully players coming in are fit and ready for 95mins of football.

I think a strong bench is a must for this one as for every game and I see Aladin [Alladierre] getting a goal against the hammers in a goal fest!

Really looking forward to seeing Tuncay playing again too !

Up the BORO!!!

Memo to John Powls:

John,

AV's response to your post (which was in response ot mine!!) kind of sums up the historical situaton quite succinctly.

AV's possible scenario for a sustainable future "Premiership Boro" is laudible - depending on how silly the big spending really gets.

As I said in my post, I would just LOVE to see Boro find a model and the financial backing to mount a year on year assault on the established big four. But because the "fundamentals", as they're called, aren't favourable for Boro (as things presently stand - but let's keep an open mind), then it's difficult to see a sustainable Boro year-on-year challenge for a 1-7 league spot.

That said, it DOES taste so much sweeter when Boro DO achieve success which is seemingly 'way above our station! The trouble is.......when you taste the glory, it leaves you wanting more! And more! And more!

Regretably, to get the more and more and more, however, in the "competitive" environment that is the modern English Premiership, needs not only a change of gear, but a whole new engine!

AV

Amen to all of that.

From the Daily Mirror this morning it seems like Stewie needs to be convinced too!

To John Powls and AV:

I'm sure you're both very aware that before real remedy or new ambition can be fulfilled, the current reality must be assessed and accepted for what it is.

Without the objectivity of owing up to what we really are, we cannot establish a real platform from which to grow. Nor will we be able to create an ambitious, achievable future which is a stretch target that busts open the constraining shell that perhaps is exemplified by the descriptor "a small town mentality".

Your posts (and mine, hopefully) raise the awareness of what we are and what needs to be done to make the quantum leap to "the next level" to which people in the game keep referring.

"The next level" as they call it, in my view, is NOT yet consistently sustainable year on year by any club outside the top four. (But I believe there are signs that it could become so, because of the level of financial backing now underpinning some “city� clubs outside the top four.)

That’s the point that AV makes in his earlier response. For evidence, just look at the variability of the clubs filling the "next tier" rankings over the Premiership history.

To reiterate a point I made in an earlier post somewhere along the line - the rich are getting richer (stronger polarisation from top to bottom) as a consequence of further big-money injection.

We must continuously remind ourselves that quite a few other clubs are also aspiring to the same ambition and therefore, the "ante" is being "upped" all the time. Not only do we have that creeping competition to overcome, but we have to find that little (or big) something extra to enable us to leapfrog them.

So, against this backdrop, when considering Boro's future, to make that move to "the next level") for me, the next questions are:

"What do people want, do they really, really want?": What is the club's real ambition?

"Who are the ‘people’ who want it and are they the people who can make it happen?": Is it the present owner and is he acting with the support available to him that would sustain the ambition? (This is a fundamental question in my view - and one worthy of phrasing a bit differently or expanding perhaps in another post!)

"What to do about it?"

"Who should do it?"

At the moment, there is seemingly an acceptance of Boro as a club who view continuing Premiership membership as success.

However, if there is genuine ambition to progress beyond that status, my contention is that more money needs to be spent to make it sustainable and repeatable.

Otherwise is to accept that the rotation of lesser clubs every now and again achieving "above their station" and going through their respective "cycles" of boom and bust will prevail outside of the top four. But the danger is that with the new money, Boro becomes excluded even from that second tier.

As AV says, Boro have done well to remain in the Premiership as a well-managed relatively small club, for as many seasons as they have. And they've given a lot of local people a lot of pleasure and excitement along the way.

And yes, a lot of frustration too!

I guess this current thread is discussing ways in which there can be more of the former and less of the latter in years to come!

" if we beat west ham and not lose against birmingham then i reckon we are safe."

"Nine points: 3 - West Ham, 3 - Birmingham, 3 - Everton. If its a really good Christmas then we may even get a point at Portsmouth!"

"Boro will beat West Ham as there is a new found confidence in the squad"

Ah, the misplaced sound of arrogance. I love it, me!

Man Utd are on the telly here quite a bit, and so I see them play quite often, and I've noticed something over the years that I'm sure is common knowledge in some circles.

Much of the Man Utd strategy involves a style of play that has the highest probability of success (scoring).

A lot of this revolves around simply keeping the ball close to the opponent's goal. This means that over the course of hours, and months, there is more likelihood of the ball ending up over the line more often.

For example, when Man Utd have the ball near the penalty box, and play slows, then the defenders and defensive midfielders array themselves in a large semicircle around the goal - at a distance of the average clearance by the opposition. So, ball is cleared by the opposition, retrieved by Man U, and pounded back into the box. Repeat and repeat and repeat and eventually something happens and the ball is in the net.

In contrast, every Boro manager, whether Robson, McClaren or Southgate, seems to plan Boro's attacking tactics around events which only happen, say, once every 4 years, like leap year. :)

Today, West Ham scored more often, because they put the ball into the penalty box more often, and twice the ball arrived in front of someone who was prepared to deliver a fine finish.

Boro players were equally prepared, but the ball hardly ever got in the box near them.

What a disaster!!!

Where was the energy, craft, graft and inventiveness that we witnessed against Arsenal? Why can we only do this against the "big" teams??

For 20 minutes we looked the part, until Curbishleys usual cloying Charlton-esque tactics took a hold on the game, from then on it was always going to be a dour affair.

Defensive lapses (again) cost us dear, I cannot single out one Boro player that was worthy of any praise whatsoever except Woody who sadly went off injured again.

We badly missed O'Neil's graft on the right, which meant George was back to his usual headless chicken game, Dowining and Arca were obviously not fit although both showed little flashes of skil, and sadly (never thought I'd say this), but we missed Rochemback

In the second half we gave the advantage to West Ham by allowing them to play all of their football in our half.

Then Southgate (who all but admitted it in his after match comments) decides the game cannot be won and throws Cattermole on to beef up midfield at the expense of arguably our most dangerous forward, Johnson.

It wasn't West Ham's skillful superiority that lost us this game. It was down to players who failed to show the same sort of attitude and commitment that brought us 6 deserved points from the previous two games coupled with Southgate's naivety in terms of his tactics.

Dreadful.

Dear Tony Black,

Has it ever occurred to you that you may be wasting your time? Anyway God Bless you TB, AV and faithful BORO bloggers.

ON LEAVING A HOMAGE TO FERLINGHETTI

I am leaving before I end up in court
and I am leaving to find new avenues of thought
creations caught fresh in the first instance
and I am leaving taking us
to a European scintillating existence
and of our culture I cry

Begotten, not created

And I am leaving to find the inchoate moment
of discovery beyond these veiled boundaries
and I am leaving to be free
to take up the cause of critical thought...safely
and I am leaving to fly straight and narrow
undeviated from the expulsion of truth
the detonation of silence which seeks
no proof of criminality writ large

Begin and never cease

And I am leaving this crack-faced crushed psyche pain-induced inverted grecian urn OF ART
wretched zeitgeist of the age and place...
leaving too the thugs, destroyers of races
Of the age, of people's faces, the collateral damage
a rushing holocaust to embrace...targets

Hail the incarnate deity

I am leaving the smears, the blears disgrace
of politicians in tears, degrading babies
and I am leaving the shrouded mists
Around which I cannot see
ways through for you and me
unwanted and tear smelted routes
lie untrammelled under the sea...incarnadine

Down to a world such as this

And I am leaving the
to soar above the eagle of freedom
and us the 13th basted state
And I am leaving
because really I'm a Batman
up against a fatuous leader
Don't turn up the lights too bright...here

All the little boys he killed

And I am leaving to catch stars
and umload them upon the universe
as I dare to eat many fruits many peaches indeed
And I am leaving the shunting magnetic opposite pull of Hartlepool in reverse
where monkeys count better than me
And I am also leaving the wheelchair theoretician
who counts stars and says there is no heaven
I am sadly leaving Lord Gibbon
who rules like a King Minnion
by a riverside of
mediocrity
And I am forever leaving
the White Cliffs of prison
Leaving the inmates to sing
An x-rated plethora of purposeless
Bling, leaving them to do their thing

And out of the shapeless divide
came form

I am leaving
the wrathful gargantuan ship of state
its seeds spread out sowing its toxic sting
colluded in suffering an infintely suffering thing
an arc of evil burning phospherous freight
of three thousand new criminal laws
Magna Carta has sunk into liberal hate
And I am leaving the Christ who has left us to this fate - No second coming... No religious revival none only Et tu Brute?

And he shareth in our gladness

Well at least you guys have only suffered Part 1...

we are voyagers all and I wish you all the best

Robin Mitton

Thanks for reminding me Mr Powls. Truth is, the signs were there against Derby but they are more powder puff than us ( except against Toon 1-2 as I post). West Ham, despite being without ten players, are more potent than Derby.

Blast 2-2 at St James.

For West Hams second some correspondents put the blame on Wheater. From replays Arca just left Parker to run past him into the box, Wheater was then on the back foot as Parker ran onto the ball and was wrong footed by some neat footwork as was the next defender.

Revisited Adam Steel's preview of the match. Poor bloke will be in the office with a paper bag over his head, it is an absolute cert for what happened next on Question of Sport because it was the exact opposite of what did happen.

Cant blame the chap because he was only saying what should happen.

I know I said perserverance,patience and belief in my last post...But how long are we to put up with this ??

We score and the whole team reacts like we've won the cup...Game over, then two miutes later we concede.

It happens time after time.There is no need for defenders to run the length of the pitch to jump on the back of the scorer,we would all be happy just for them to stay focused and get on with the game.

After a bright start we lost the plot completely. No midfield at all and then endless long balls into their half giving Aliadiere and Tucay no chance,both of these players need the ball at their feet to be at their best.

Why they took of Jinky and left Downing on is beyond me. But were not out of it yet, a big strong striker is a must though,.. someone who will give us a bit of authority in the box will make life so much easier in the new year

John Powls-I think you think you know a lot more about football than you actually do.

You say Southgate cannot give an explanation why the teams performance differed from Arsenal and by implication he does not know what he's doing.

Can Wenger tell you why Arsenal are world beaters a lot of the time but are occasionaly moderate?

Sometimes things do not click. I believe that on Saturday our problem was we were disjointed in midfield in the second half and badly missed both Rocky and O'Neill.

We all know it's going to be a long haul.Keep a bit of faith and merry christmas to all.

Dissapointing to say the least against the hammers. We looked totally flat for most of the game and they stifled us for long periods and didnt let tuncay or aliadiere get a kick.

We lacked a man in midfield to get his foot on the ball and pass it around. Rochemback was missed and O,Neil definantly was.

Out of the three game we have played recently i would have took 6 points from 9 so it isnt a bad thing just the performance is worrying and the comments after the game a bit confusing.

"I dont know where that performance came from". Well I'll tell you - complacency and poor preperation.

Arca was never fit and downing looked of the pace so why play them in the 1st place? Deciding that players can play on the friday before a game with one days training just isnt good enuff, if they arnt fit dont play them.

Shawky, boateng and cattermole in the middle with tuncay aliadiare and jinky - why didnt we try it and see what would have happened. No invention, no risk taking, 2nd rate

merry christmas to all

Can I just get it on the record that I hate the festive period - there are far too many games played and they end up ruining any good will that can be drummed up.

Anyway, the problem with the Boro seems to be motivation - they only have it when either they're playing a big team or are playing in a must win game.

Without this, their performance seems to be flatter than a wafer run over by a steam roller - there doesn't seem to be any players who can run the show and get the other players involved - everybody just seems to be waiting for somebody else to do something.

Also thank god Lawro has seen the error of his ways and tipped us to lose the next game.

Bah Humbug everbody

Ted Watson:
When you say Wheater is another Andrew Davies I suppose you mean he's another great product of the Youth Development programme whose not going to given a chance ?

Before criticising him please assess the performances of (1) Zat Knight (2) Gabbidon (3) Samba (4)Huth (5) Dawson (6) Hyppia (7) Anton Ferdinand (8) Alex of Chelsea.

I's sooner have David than any of those listed above.
Wheater is a very good player and an even better prospect. Leave him alone.

The reason we lost last week was because Southgate settled for 1-1 tinkered with the team and tactics. He tried a bit of Cattneccio and Curbishley mugged him.

Phil ex Warrenby

That is the problem, the table doesnt lie, we are where we are because at the half way point of the season we are poor at both ends of the pitch and not getting much help at either end from midfield.

Where we go from here is a problem without new blood but by the time it aarives we may really in the brown stuff.

The problem is highlighted by the fact we are still having to play Dong Goal Less. We now have two matches at Pompey and home ot Everton where we would be pleased with two draws. It has the signs of a disastrous festive period.

I am relying on my mantra of points come from odd places at odd times, we may tuck away one of our early chances and kick on.

In part answer to Ted Watson, Wheater may have looked like Bambi when Parker scored buy you have to analyse the goal fully.

We lost the ball on the half way line - not Wheats fault. Parker was allowed to run and played a one two outside the box and Arca let him go. We now have the defenders nightmare, a mifielder running at you in the box with the ball at his feet with you static. You cant dive in and he has the momentum, you make a challenge which as he is at speed he can sidestep, he does so straight into another defender who he sidesteps off the other foot before finishing neatly. I see at least three other people at fault as well as Wheats.

AV

Well, I see that even that nice Mr. Paylor has finally lost his saint-like patience - and not before time.

I quote from his Gazette match report:-

"HUFF and puff Boro displayed the full set of relegation credentials on a black afternoon at St Andrew’s yesterday.

They were blunt in attack, a soft touch in defence and totally devoid of belief.

Birmingham didn’t so much win this six pointer: they were handed the points gift-wrapped."

He goes on to nail Gate's responsibility for this and lets MFC know in no uncertain terms that if we don't buy in January - including 2 goalscorers then we're in for a black 2008.

Great that you've joined the rest of us at last, Eric. I hope the MFC response isn't to shut you out or to try to neuter you as they've obviously done with the 2 wally's on the BBC Tees commentary.

I listened to them for the first time yesterday - they knew that what they were watching was unacceptable tripe but had obviously been given the Boys Bumper Book of BBC Boro Euphemisms for Xmas by The Count, so many were the convoluted byways that they had to take to avoid saying it. I shall not listen again.

Bring back Ali and Bernie - and the truth!

And here is another hard truth - sorry though I am to confirm it - if Gibbo persists with this manager and coaching staff and allows them to spend whatever meagre amount they are to be given in the January window, meanwhile continuing to lose games - then he is consigning us to The Championship.

Once more, can't someone give him Jol and Bilic's mobile numbers?

John

I have taken to following the match on BBC online updates, much more exciting and seem better at capturing the atmosphere.

Just think, you will be off to Pompey to watch Simba start and possibly with Boat right wing. Harry will be losing sleep at the prospect. And rain is forecast.