Boro Set For Multi-Coloured Swap Shop?
IS IT TIME for some tough decisions at cash-strapped Boro? With January looming and the smoke signals from Hurworth suggesting there is very little in the transfer kitty, Boro may well be forced to sell before they can buy.
Will the top brass bite the bullet and cash in some of the very few prizes assets to recruit the firepower desperately needed if we are to avoid the drop? And if so, who?
Quizzed about the glaring need for reinforcements on January 1st beleaguered boss Gareth Southgate revealed that while he is mentally drawing up his Fantasy Football team, watching players and writing his wish list complete with Argos catalogue page and item numbers for Santa (the source of the leak about Ronaldinho?), he is realistic enough to know that he is actually going to get socks, some smellies and a pair of cuff-links in his stocking. Or maybe Paul Dickov if he has been really good.
Southgate will have chilled the hearts of many supporters when he warned the Gazette that any players coming in may not arrive until the final week of the transfer window and that shot-shy Boro could have to trudge on with what they have got - a relegation haunted squad that has been found woefully inadequate - until February. Early bids are rarely successful he said, even when you have done the spade work before the window opens, as rivals teams don't want to let good players go. Even if they are willing to sell it is usually at an initially inflated price but if you hold your nerve and keep a poker face then the level of resistance and the price starts to fall as the window starts to close.
We know that Boro do not have the cash to launch a fully funded recruitment drive. As revealed last week, the most recently published financial results reported a £13m loss in the year that ended with the UEFA Cup final. Since then all the signs have been that Boro are heading at full steam towards "a team Teesside can afford" with squad numbers being reduced, wage bills being trimmed, Keith Lamb outlining a more austere era of lower cost bases and lower expectations, and even long term senior staff like Graham Fordy being axed as part of what was described as a 'corporate structural review.'
Now the boss has taken to using the time worn phraseology that rings alarm bells about not being able to compete with the big boys and having to 'cut our cloth' , a mantra that should have been translated into latin and inscribed on the new badge.
Perhaps more interestingly and potentially more revealing the boss also threw in for the first time that Boro may have to sell before they could buy or pursue some more colourful purchasing strategies. He admitted he wanted to make wholesale changes and told the Gazette:
“You want to try to change every aspect as much as you can but we are competing with the big boys in the transfer market and we will have to be more creative. I have some idea of what I have got and we will have to be creative, but we might have to raise some money. I am comfortable with that. I know we have not got a lot to play with. That’s why I'm bringing younger players through.�
The heavily weighted words there that should trigger the alarms are "raise some money" and "creative". That screams out that he may have to sell before he can buy the striker he needs to save our top flight status, or possibly use current established players as bait to land new faces, as sweetener to persuade their clubs to sell or swap.
Which begs the question: which Boro players would raise any substantial fees or be enticing enough to tempt clubs into trading? Sadly, the quickly realisable assets are very few, an indictment of Boro's scouting and purchasing policies in recent years. There are no fringe players who Boro can cash in, no journeymen pros in the stiffs who can "do a job" for another Premiership or solvent Championship club for a few million, no bench-warmers that are coveted by middle-ranking clubs looking to plug gaps of their own. Most of them - Nemeth, Job, Maccarone, Parnaby - left on free transfers as part of the squad trimming and weren't replaced.
And most of the youngsters will raise very little or are indispensable - David Wheater is out of contract in the Summer, Andrew Taylor is the first choice left back, all bar one of the rest are bit part players who are very unlikely to attract suitors - and besides, the publicly stated policy of the club is that the Academy production line is the future of the club.
Which leaves Southgate having to face up to some big decisions. The only realistic assets that will raise big money quickly are Stewart Downing, Jonathan Woodgate and Adam Johnson - dare he bite the bullet and take the political risks inherent in selling the most high profile current players or the hottest young prospect to fund a move for a marksman?
Who else would raise big money and fast? At a glance you may get:
Schwarzer - £250,000 - out of contract and out of form ... and would need replacing.
Luke Young £2m - money back fairly easily ... but would need replacing.
Chris Riggott - £1.5m with a good wind behind him.
Andrew Taylor - £2m to the right buyer... but would need replacing.
Rochemback - hard to see an English side taking the chance and his wages rule out Portugal.
George Boateng - age and wages probably rule out profitable sale.
Julio Arca - £2.5m - easy to sell ... not so easy to replace for that money.
Mido - unsellable while crocked.
Lee Dong Gook - unsellable for a fee.
Gary O'Neill - inconceivable the boss would sell his best buy.
Lee Cattermole - £1m - the energetic rough diamond and mooted future Boro captain is a great prospect, but right now? He may attract Championship interest.
Pogatetz - £2m - would sell, but is a battler when we really need one and cover at left back.
Aliadiere - £2m - would sell, but is brightest spark going forward.
Tuncay - £3-4m - would maybe sell, but wages probably rule out return to obvious buyers in Turkey.
Which leaves who exactly? Stewart Downing has long attracted envious glances from other clubs. Spurs are perennial stalkers and Everton have registered an interest while Manchester City have also had a sniff. Forget the boo boys - Boro and England - and any concerns about a currebt dip in form: if Stewy became available there would be no shortage of takers for a natural left footer who has pace and a pin-point delivery. He may shine on a bigger stage and arguably in career terns it is the right time for him to move on.
There has been talk of the local lad being unhappy at getting a chicken run roasting this term - after all he is the top scorer, the assist king and the first Teessider at the World Cup since Alan Peacock so is a legitimate target. It was denied but stories like that in the national press cause ears to prick up and big clubs will have been running the rule over him. He would be snapped up quickly for £8m and if Boro could contrive a bidding war he could raise significantly more.
That could tempt Boro - especially with Tuncay able to play on the left and young guns Adam Johnston waiting in the wings.
Jonathan Woodgate has had a slow start to the campaign and after missing pre-season has struggled to hit the imperious heights of last season when his weekly excellence made his £7m fee seem a bargain. But last term he had big goals to aim at: proving his fitness, resurrecting his reputation, reclaiming his England place and earning a move away from Madrid after Real decided he had no future there. He achieved all those but it seems this term he has yet to find a new challenge to motivate himself to reach his highest standards.
But without question there would be takers. There will be clubs and managers who believe he can soon be brought up to speed and playing back at his best. And they are probably right. Woody at his best is a class act and his fitness record over the past two seasons is better than John Terry. The demands of two games a week in the Big Four may be beyond him but the second ranked clubs would want him: you could see a bidding war developing between Spurs, Man City, Portsmouth, Everton and Newcastle which could see Boro get their money back.
Again that could tempt Boro, especially as Huth and Pogatetz are fit again and Wheater has been a revelation. With those, Riggott and maybe Matthew Bates available again before the end of the window it could be a position Boro feel they have adequate cover in.
More importantly the pair could prove compelling bargaining chips in 'creative' swap deals. Woodgate for Newcastle's Ameobi and N'Zogbia is not beyond the realms of possibility and bot the valuations and wages would probably stack up. Nor is Downing for Defoe or Keane at Spurs too hard to imagine. I'm sure everyone on Planet Boro could come up with similar deals of equal weight, cost and probability. It may be the best way forward. It may be the only way forward as getting cash for them is no guarantee of being able to invest effectively and if other clubs won't release the players we need we will have money burning a hole in our pockets as we go down.
The only other viable exit is Johnson. He is wanted badly by Watford, runaway Championship leaders and with one eye on next year's Premiership pot already, where he made a dramatic impression on loan scoring and making goals in a confident side. With other clubs no doubt having taken note and ready to join the bidding the auction may nudge up to £4-5m... but would that be enough to fund the forward Boro have in mind? And would it send the wrong signals?
Selling to buy can be effective. Bryan Robson reshuffled the pack in 1997 as he cashed in Juninho to Atletico Madrid for £12m and Ravanelli to Marseilles for £5.5. That balanced the books and paid for the high-risk master-stroke that was Paul Merson, the creative force that ensured an instant return to the top flight, and left a bit in the pot to splash out later. That strategy was vindicated by the instant promotion.
But selling can also be the kiss of death. If you sell off your best players and bring in worse ones you are on a slippery slope to struggling with a lower skills base and with fewer assets you have less room for maneovere . In the 1981 post-Wolves spiral of decline Charlie Amer started selling off the brightest and the best in the Great Ayresome Sports Hall Bring and Buy Sale that was the source of the stench of death that enveloped the club in an advanced state self-imposed paralysis and just waiting for the liquidators.
Last week we were looking through the entrails of the club's history for parallels with the current situation. Those who see echoes of the ill-fated 1981-82 Bobby Murdoch reign will be terrified by the notion of Boro selling off their best home grown talent and their long term prospects just to plug gaps in a self-defeating bout of short-termism.
But desperate times demand desperate measures. Now, Lot One, what am I bid for this locally produced young England international? Shall we start with one Robbie Keane? An Ameobi sir.... one Ameobi at the back to the fat lad in the replica shirt... do I hear a Samaras?
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Anthony Vickers
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I think that was a pretty good assessment you’ve made there AV. It’s not worth selling any of the £2 million rated players – especially if they need replacing.
But Downing or Woodgate would prove good bargaining chips with other clubs and at the moment they seem to be playing below their potential – plus we have other options in their positions.
I can’t see Spurs letting Keane go – though Defoe is probably more realistic.
Also it looks like Lita may be available in January if he could be given a decent contract from Boro.
Though I think the Cattemole / Ronaldinho swap deal is still in the balance.
**AV writes: What about if we throw in Lee Dong Gook as a BOGOF?
I couldn't agree more that Stuart Downing is probably the best way to fund a move for a striker. Adam Johnson is looking as though he will develop into a much better player than downing very soon, so why not sell? It seems Southgate has just been accomodating Downing over the past few weeks anyway.
But if we were to get £10M for Downing, who would want to come to relegation threatened side? The Ronaldinho rumour was the funniest i've heard in a long time, we might have a chance of signing him when he's 40!
I'd seriously look at a bid for Marlon King, he's a cut-price Drogba which is what we need.
How can a club getting £30m from Sky plead poverty?
That said, while I have a lot of time for Stewey D and think he has had a lot of unfair stick this season, a straight swap for Robbie Keane (Mido's partner of choice) would make a lot of sense.
it might be interesting to see how much we could get for Tuncay from the turks if Gate doesn't fancy him?
I would list Riggott, Schwarzer, Jones and DGL straight away. Harper from Ncstle would be a good, cheap replacement.
Once we go down the path of selling established England internationals and quality players to bring in stop gaps to get us through the season there is only one way the club are going - down.
Selling Downing will be giving in to the boo boys but it wont stop them, they will just start on someone else while selling off local lads will give other people a stick to beat the club with.
If the club know they need players they must either borrow the money to buy them or get the players on loan.
That is not Gate's job it is Lambies and he should be on the job now or he is not earning his money.
We need a MARCA BRANCA - and now!
The last time we were in this predicament, we bought Dean Windass and brought in Benito Carbone on loan.
We dont need a Carbone this time, but I'd take two Windasses right now. We dont have to look for superstars, just players who will give defenders a run for their money
Downing is our top scorer and we have not even seen him at his best putting the ball on the big strikers head [ when we had one].
There is no point in selling him to buy a big striker as you are loosing one of the ways the new striker could score , jesus we make things difficult for ourselves.
Also , what a great message that sends out selling one of our best players who is also an England international.
Why sell Luke young who is now fit and playing well- he supplied the ball for Tuncay's goal and is one of the few who has scored once fully fit.We have no real replacement for him either!
I would not sell Arca , O'Neil , A Johnson or any player that is playing well that we have no cover for or we will end up with no team and Defoe on his own against the opposition's 11.
The only thing we have a lot of is central defenders and I would sell Riggot before Woodgate who needs resting now anyway.
Robbie Keane is the joint leading top scorer but I cant see him coming to Boro although I would love it if he did.
I have a bad feeling about all of this.
Reading were there for the taking and we only made 2 substitutions as there was not anyone with any class left- Steele, okay we need a spare keeper but Hutchinson is not up to it yet.
If Mendi came at the same time as Tuncay for Boat or Cattermole we could have found the attacking edge that is missing to unlock the defence!
Gate seems to be hiding Mendi now as word got out of his performances in the reserves. Hell, you could play him as he has something to offer and sell him in Jan once he has been shop windowed.
This is not madness as we have no options and the end of jan is too late to try and scrape whatever striker other clubs feel is surplus to requirement.
Southgate is not using the squad to its strengths, Dong Gook instead of Tuncay is proof enough....
I believe a fit Mendi is as good as Tugay KerimoÄŸlu [who is 4 years older than Mendi] they both have no pace but make space and use class passing to open up defences.
By the way Tugay KerimoÄŸlu scored Blackburn's third goal against Newcastle with an experienced cool finish.
But as Southgate is always right and wont change his mind I must be wrong....
mark j - regarding Mendi
I don't think Mendi will get a game as the club are trying to encourage him to leave in January transfer window so that they can save on his wages.
However, once the window is closed he'll probably get a game - do well and then become our best central midfielder before leaving on a free to a newly promoted club in the summer.
Reading the various posts, articles by Uncle Eric, gates statements and the words of AV it leads me to think there is a messiness about the situation.
The Dong Goal Less/Tuncay debate shows a disturbing lack of clarity in thinking, of a failure to grasp basic fundamentals. When TB kindly damned me with faint praise for seeing the bleeding obvious as a fan which was not evident to our coaching staff it sets the alarm bells ringing.
The philosphy sold to us was to play with pace and movement, to score score goals from all over the pitch. You may need someone with physique to hold the ball up, DGL has no attributes for that role and never will whilst I have an orifice at the nether end of my body. Nor is he suited to playing a floating role.
You fear that the same malaise has set into the rest of the thinking at the club. Bless his cotton socks, Gate states he knows what we need to do and who he needs to do it. There is scant evidence and he isnt even getting the best out of what we have injuries or no injuries.
The coming game against the gunners will tell us a lot. Wenger is a great believer in teams playing 442 and if they dont do so and attack with gusto they are committing a crime against football.
Translating this into English is as follows. Arseole Whinger plays 451, he wants you to play a midfield four so his exceptional players can outnumber you and pass you to death, midfield players running at your defenders with their sublime skills.
The solution is to match them in numbers and make sure you press and make their lives uncomfortable. Nine times out of ten they will still batter you, most of the rest of the time they will still win. But every now and then...
A test for Gate, Aliadiere up front, Tuncay floating in a five man midfield linking across the pitch, joining up with Aliadiere, giving movement to keep Arsenal busy.
How we get on will be a measure of progress to date, does Gate and his men know where we are going, has the cunning plan for January been drawn up Alexander the Great or Baldrick.
At the moment there is the appearance of damage limitation. Living in the east midlands it smells of Derby, Leicester, Coventry, Forest
lion_rampant:
We actually took Carbone on loan the year after we bought Windass. But in saying they helped us, you're right. While they didn't score much (5 goals between them, 4 for Windass) they made valuable contributions for the team.
This is what we're missing from most players - excepting Gary O'Neil, Arca, Mido (when he can be bothered), Aliadiere, Wheater (now beginning to look a little out of his depth), LDG (completely out of his depth), Catts (error prone, not always reliable), Young, Pogi and Tuncay. And possibly Adam Johnson.
Vic:
Good article, as usual. Not one I entirely agree with, but you have a point.
It may be sad to conclude that to prosper, we might have to break up a team that looks so good on paper, but I also think it's about time to stop saying that this team is "about" to come good.
We do not have the players to compensate when one of our key men is struggling or going through a blank spell. Like Tevez is at Man Utd - he missed four clear chances in the opening ten minutes last night. But they've got Ronaldo to compensate for this...
Actually, come to think of it, we had Arca. But the Sunderland players just had to hack him off the pitch... (No bitterness there. Honest.)
My team for the next game: (1-4-1-4-1)
Turnbull - Young, Woody, Huth, Pogatetz - Boat - O'Neil, Arca, Rocky, Stewie - Tuncay. Subs: Steele, Wheater, Johnson, Catts, Aliadiere.
That's about as good as we're going to get...
Nice piece Vic, but what a sad indictment, what a position to find ourselves in after riding the rollercoaster in Europe only a season and half ago.
No-one can argue with what you have put together but none of it explains to me and probably many others just where did it all go wrong.
I am on the edge of devastation at the moment because I recall the hurt and the absolute agony of 1997 so clearly, when relegation, to use Gibbo's words "put this club back 10 years".
At the moment I believe we are in a worse position than back then, when we could at least score goals even if we couldn't defend, whilst currently we can do neither. In the end it was the 3 points deducted that actually proved to be the nail in the coffin.
Although I would grudgingly agree that probably Downing and one or more of our centre backs could bring in much needed short terms financial release, the January window is not the time to be bringing in yet more players who will take the rest of the season to settle.
I live in hope that Southgate and the players can turn it around. Surely we cannot stoop any lower in terms of the crop of players we have, we are scraping the barrel now.
The best we can hope for is a couple of strikers in on loan or take on an out of contract player, if there are any.
Talk of Defoe, Keane, even Lita (who Steve Coppell has warned he better start scoring by the way) are folly, none of them would come to Boro.
I firmly believe that we are stuck with the squad we have come hell or high water, and we will stand or fall on what they achieve over the next 6 months.
But to repeat my question, why are we in this mess? I can only think that there is some outside business reason that is twisting Gibson's arm, and he is being forced to tighten the purse strings. The fact that we have a £13M debt is not new for us, we've been there before, and with a Sky windfall about to drop of upwards of £30M it's not difficult for the man in the street to make a quick take-away sum and ask "well where's the other £17M going then?".
There is something seriously wrong at MFC, something we are obviously not in tune with, and its about time someone told us what it is.
Keane i really doubt coming here, since he is playing most games at spurs and is a big player for them, i doubt he would even want to come to us as if he would be up for sale then nearly everyone would be in for him.
Defoe is a more probable choice but players like that might reject a straight out transfer(cant accept he will never be a regular at spurs) so maybe a loan deal for 6 months might suit everyone, defoe can get regular football whilst still holding that thought that he can be in the spurs first 11 next season.
Hi Anthony.
Every successful side is built around a top class keeper and a solid defence. Oh God,we've had it then!
Is it in Schwarzers contract that if he's fit he plays? Why else can he be poor yet still picked? He's just going through the motions without the motion. Lets plan for next season without him, so keep Turnbull in or get another keeper.
Whilst I'd rather keep most of them, and just shift DGL, Mendi, and Riggott off the wage bill, I think if we have to, and only if we have to, Downing is the obvious £10m choice, with big money and proven successors, and him expressing a desire to leave earlier in the season.
I see Woody as Gibson's golden boy at the moment, despite his lack of form and apparent tension between him and Southgate, I think trying to sell him may put Southgate out of favour with Gibbo at a time when he needs the chairmans backing more than ever. Plus a motivated Woody is a great player and the only 'thinking' centre back we have, and needed to guide the rest of the battlers.
I just hope any money is put to good use, I don't see Ameobi or NZogbia as the solution, Keane wouldn't come here a few years ago when his best mate was begging him, so not much chance now, and unproven championship strikers could be a big £6m waste of money when up against premiership defences. Maybe Samaras for £3m but no more.
As for DGL, if we can't find a taker, maybe using him as a model in the window of the MFC store in Korea might be the best use for him - it would keep him off the pitch here, and it's the only shop window we might find a buyer looking in!
Clearly Woodie and Downing are our prize assets, not only are they class acts, England internationals etc. but they are 'Boro boys'.
I'd hate to see either of them leave but surely to sell the best left winger in the country and one of the top four English centre backs would be madness.
Neither is in top form but as Ian Botham famously said 'form is temporary, class is permanent'
Also were we to raise £7-8m which striker of that value worth his salt is likely to join a team threatened by relegation?
If we need to sell then prehaps it could be Riggot &/or Cattermole , we could maybe raise £3m which may buy us a striker who is prepared to take a punt on a team who may stay in the prem. Forget about Robbie Kean he won't be interested.
It would also be a nightmare if we sold Jinky, a player who may be worth three times as much in a couple of seasons.
I can't see too much activity in January simply because the class of striker we need won't want to come, unless GS can pull a rabbit out of the bag with a loan signing with an option to buy if we survive. Personally I think we need to keep all of our players that are worth anything.
Gibbo needs to take a calculated risk and borrow £4m of the SKY money due in the Summer. If we get relegated then he can sell to re-coup the money. He once said there was nothing wrong in taking a risk as long as the risk is managed. Now is the time to take the risk..........
Nice to read Southgate admitting "I have some idea of what I have got" - some idea, Gareth, but clearly not much. Forgot you had Tuncay on Saturday, didn't you?
I would back the possibility of selling one of Downing or Woodgate to bring in a season-saving striker, except that I have absolutely no faith left in GS's competence in choosing the right man, nor his ability to bring him in. Frankly, it would be a massive gamble with the odds stacked heavily against us.
This drought isn't likely to be solved by a human sacrifice on the MFC Ziggurat Of Doom. Let's look at better irrigation (sort the infrastructure) and planting the right crops in the right fields to get us through.
Boro fans never cease to amaze me.
They always think that ANY player would give anything for the chance of a move to Middlesbrough. History has proven otherwise. The club has always had trouble persuading players to come. Perceptions of the club as a dead-end for most careers will likely never change.
Very few Premiership players - whether regular first teamers or not - when looking at us would see anything but relegation in prospect. Why do you think most of our signings every year are from clubs that have just been relegated?
Keane or Defoe????? Dream on! London players rarely see the need to move out of the capital. Keane is flavour of the month with his new boss who doesnt seem to be infected with that madness referred to as "rotation" which is particularly destructive to striker's form. Defoe would rather go to Fulham or back to West Ham or even drop down to the likes of Palace or Watford than move up here.
Downing's light has faded and I doubt anyone would give more than 3m for him now. Watford will bid for Johnson - their promotion push has slumped alarmingly without him - and no way can they pay more than £2-3m.
Woodgate is the only feasible source of revenue and that on past reputation alone - currently he is down to Titus Bramble performance standard. It would take a lunatic bid like the one Everton made for Yakubu for the club to get their money back on him now.
ok - so we're now debating the fire sale...and we need to keep in mind who we might need in the Championship...
We only have one area of surplus - central defenders. Of these we can probably afford to lose two. Pogatetz would be important if we get relegated; Huth needs to prove his fitness and form before he can become a saleable asset; Wheater is local and will only get better - if we go down, again we'll need him. That leaves Woodgate and Riggott and with a fair wind they could net us £10m in total.
In addition there is either Downing or Johnson. If we have to sell one (and I'd prefer to keep both) then it has to be Downing, if only because Johnson will get better and will stay and will be effective in the Championship.
I would be reluctant to sell Tuncay as I feel we wouldn't get full value and he is one player - when we learn how to use him properly - who can help to keep us in the Premier League. Arca is too important to sell. Cattermole, like Wheater is the future, and we'll need him if we go down.
When it comes to buying players there aren't many who leap out as realistic prospects in our present circumstances: they have to agree to come, they have to have the ability to make an impact, and ideally they have to stay with us if we go down. In addition they have to be able to take us forward next season if we stay up...
What really disturbs me is that we're all thinking and talking like this - if we had Capello, Hiddink or Lippi in charge, or some other experienced coach, would we still be looking at the same bleak scenario - my point is (and I know it's pointless repeating this over and over again) that we have the players to make a decent team, all we lack is a coach in charge who can pull them together and get them to perform as a cohesive, motivated and tactically astute unit...
I've had a little think regarding realistic targets for January, (some of whom would be very much short term ventures, possibly available on loan).
The list consists of British players that we should have a decent chance of bagging. They may not be the world stars we once had in our sights but could possibly do a job.
Richard Wright
Kevin Nolan
Chris Eagles
Darren Fletcher
Jon Walters (Ipswich)
Brian Howard (Barnsley)
Matt Taylor
Sean Davis
Luke Moore
Leroy Lita
James Beattie
Rob Hulse
Shola Ameobi
Darius Vassell
Bobby Zamora
Robert Earnshaw
I admit none of them set pulses racing but there are a few options here that are definitely better than what we have.
I also agree that we are in a position where we have a good number of central defenders. Matthew Bates is back in training so this gives us even more options. Riggott's time could be up. He's done ok, time to go for about 1.5 million. LDG.... well let's pay someone to take him off our hands.
Mcmahon, Bates, Kennedy, Walker, Hutchison, Goulon, Hines, Craddock and that potential star - Porritt....Most of these have been around for a while. I believe it's sink or swim time for them now. There is only one way to see if they are good enough. Give them a game or two. We seem to have so many potential stars that just don't kick on. Surely they would be more effective than LDG.
Rochembach is too inconsistent and we just simply haven't got the best out of him.
Derby are dead and buried. The mackems, us, Wigan, Birmingham, Fulham, Reading and Bolton are all in the mix. Surely Spurs will climb.
For me the games against these teams are the ones the matter plus the odd miracle and at the very least two new faces.
Those things combined with luck and a lack of injuries might just keep us up and we will need to get ready for another scrap next year.
That is where Boro are at and realistically where we belong. That's not being unambitous, just taking stock of the natural order of clubs in this country.
A bit of unity among the fans, much improved performances, a bit more consultation and insight from the club and we wouldn't really be a million miles away from contentment, not Eindhoven, Cardiff or Samba ecstacy but contentment.
ps a cup run would be lovely.
Gods sake ,will you all have a word with yourselves. We are here in this position because of inept management at the club CHAIRMEN downwards.
january? lol. Gibson needs a top class manager in now ,but when did that last happen? Sorry people buts its the championship for us without doubt....and if gibson has not got the clout any more he should sell up!
This is all quite depressing.....it was only 18 months or so ago that we were being promised a 'Top Drawer' manager and spectacular signings after the UEFA cup final.
I think everybody expected us to build and become a force but we have gone backwards not even stagnated!
The money appeared to be available then but not now why? I know we bought Huth , Woodgate and Yakubu but the latter has left at a profit the team wage bill has gone down and the money has gone
Arca was buttons to buy and the other couple of bought players were below 5 million probably balanced by the sales we have made...or wages offloaded.
So this begs the question was Gibson's 'spectacular' statement just rubbish to start with? He has talked recently about the German connection that was in place before Southgate's appointment but changed his mind, was this due to finances? Makes me wonder.
I said at the time Southgate is a nice bloke but not a premiership manager...that is the root of the problem and until that changes nothing will improve....sad but true.
The crisis at the club seems to be getting deeper and deeper. Has gibson lost confidence in southgate spending money? Has southgate has plenty to spend already?
Is MFC being upfront with the fans, are they hiding more than they care to let on? Are the fans suffering from lack of information because only lamb,southgate and gibson know what is going on and no leaks ever come out?
I think this situation as been on the horizon for a couple of seasons as our cup form has managed to distract away from our poor league form
We have to start winning home games, 12 games left and 3 of them are against the top 4. that leaves 9 left - of which we need to win 6 and draw 3 as a minimum.
Then we have away games at arsenal, chelsea, liverpool, newcastle, sunderland... overall we have 23 games . possibly 6 impossible to win. so that leaves 17 games to get another 25 points to be safe.
thats about 6 home wins, 2 away wins 3 home draws and 3 away draws. is that possible? we just cant afford to lose to teams around us.
Andy and Never Happy
Some are golden others are crystal! Beckham has one set, I have the other!
Howay Vic man "Woodgate for Newcastle's Ameobi and N'Zogbia is not beyond the realms of possibility"
A deal with Ameobi is very much a possibility but you've got no chance of landing Zoggy. Babayaro and/or Ramage maybe but not young Charlie.
Now Gate is complaining about our scouting network. I seem to recall only a short time ago being told that we had one of the best scouting networks in Europe.
It looks like Gate has finally realised its time to cut the crap and start telling the truth, just hope the senior MFC Execs take a note out of his book.
Great article here by Jeff Winter on ComeonBoro:
http://www.comeonboro.com/columns/110616.php
Of course, it's true. We have been thinking some of the things he says we think - Southgate clueless, Gibson out (although I personally wouldn't quite go that far), Wheater and Huth upfront, etc, etc.
But when we're so desperate for GOALS, let alone success, can you blame us? Especially when Eindhoven was only a year and a half ago.
AV
I am glad your not my real estate guy, Id be bust in no time. Where do you get these prices from? £1m cattermole, £1.5m Riggott, £2m Pogi, £2.5m Arca... dont quit your day job and open a business please.
Try £6m, £3.75m, £5m and £6.5m. Rmember Darren Bent £16m and others. It's all relative.
By the way I dont know if we will change managers but theres a guy at swansea who is heading for the top, I think is name is robert martinez. Ive seen them play a couple of times and they are a very attractive side to watch, considering the division there in, nice free flowing one touch stuff,remember him
**AV writes: £6m for Catt??!! And you think I'm off the mark?
d .richardson wrote...
Gods sake ,will you all have a word with yourselves. We are here in this position because of inept management at the club CHAIRMEN downwards.
Hey D.
where the hell were you when I needed you at the start of the season when everyone in here wanted to burn me at the stake for expressing this view ! (lol)
I'm of the opinon that we shouldn't sell anyone.
My choice would be to get people in on a free that can do a job until the rest of the season when we should take stock.
People may laugh, but Jimmy Floyd, Fowler and the like. Proven goalscorers who'd dearly love to pit their wits against the big boys one more time and prove that they've still got it.
They'd give their all and at the very least would get the crowd going. I know that Jimmy is a lazy so and so but you cannot deny that he can score goals and has the muscle we need up front.
I'm sure that there are a few other seasoned pro's available on free transfers who could also plug the gap in the midfield or in defence as well.
I'd even bring back Xavier for a few months whilst the US are on a break.
I know that it isn't a long term solution but in the current climate of skintsville where survival is our only aim, I really don't see we have a choice.
By the way, wasn't this supposed to be a phase of rebuilding?
To all those who ever doubted me (!), you must know have to face the fact that the good ship Boro is at best just floating along in the waves, and at worst about to sink, and that sooner or later that the cure will only be a new management team, and a host of new faces with new ideas and fresh motivation, and very probably a new chairman.
TB
Chris, I didn't expect us to be a force after the uefa cup but I was exepcting us to be up there in the mid table comfort zone as a minimum.
Gareths downfall has been unable to sign decent strikers who can stay fit. We hung around for viduka too long, waited on alan smith when he didnt want to sign then sold the yakubu a week after southgate stated he was happy and goign nowhere.
We are struggling to replace yakubu and viduka. both players contributions was the main reason why we stayed up last season. Downing is now losing confidence and motivation because there are no decent strikers to get on the end of his crosses.
Now we know why everton were happy to pay £11m for yakubu as decent goalscorers are hard to find. Now we are suffering and its effecting the whole team.
And why is Dong Gook Lee still anywhere near the forst team?
You are having a laugh at £6m for cattermole.
Arca is by far our best midfielder now and he only cost jsut over £2m. so we would do well to get £3m for him. Probably go back to sunderland. Cattermole would go for £2m max. hardworking midfielders are plenty its the creative ones or goal scoring midfielders that go for big money
Oh, woes ‘r us!
Metaphorically, I’m already on Prozac. In my mind’s eye, I haven’t renewed my season ticket because even if we survive the drop this year, I get the feeling that it’s almost an inevitable that we’ll be in the Championship fairly soon.
It’s in my recurring paranoia that, without the absolutely huge injection of money that would be essential to bribe top talent to come here to live for a few years of their lives to “earn� enough not to have to worry about what happens to them for the remainder of their existence on the planet, we are in footballing equivalent of Teesside Hospice – the bottom 3 - and waiting for the inevitable.
Why? Because the fundamentals of Middlesbrough Football Club aren’t right for the modern-day Premier League, or what it is becoming.
We have managed to “be creative� enough in the past by bringing in a few nuggets of genuine talent to supplement an otherwise “ordinary� squad of players. And we have been quite successful at it over the last 10 years or so, it has to be said.
However, in the past, we could rely on the residual charisma of “Captain Fantastic� Bryan Robson and the growing reputation (back then) and national squad links of Steve McClaren to attract a few of the flair players albeit some of whom were in the twilight of their careers.
But I don’t think the same strategy will cut it in the changing world of the new Premier League. And not with Gareth Southgate as the talisman - great club captain, footballing servant and nice guy though he certainly is!
The game has evolved and moved faster than provincial clubs can re-arrange their financial base or backing. Those clubs which are attractive to external investors are a different kettle of fish and it’s they who will survive the cut – in whatever form it takes - when it comes. Because they have the city fan base and the financial backing to attract the best and the best of the rest.
My take on all of this is that our ailment is deeper-rooted than can be addressed by taking the analgesic of superficial transfers or some minor cosmetic surgery in the squad, such as some of the dealing schemes proposed in this blog and subsequent posts.
I wouldn’t presume to add to them, because they’re not curative. They are managing the pain, treating the symptoms and making it temporarily easier to live with. And, as others have suggested, some of them would also hasten the demise!
I fear our condition is rooted in the “loadsamoney� mentality that is currently coursing through the arterial Premier League and the inability of the Middlesbrough “brand� to attract enough of it, even supposing Steve Gibson felt inclined to release control to an even bigger “Sugar Daddy�.
In the absence of any publicly-announced strategic intent by MFC concerning the current management’s take on the matter of the clubs future, it is inevitable that speculation and gossip will result.
I play with the following scenario in my head (thus the metaphorically administrations of prescriptive Prozac!) although I have no real evidence or knowledge to substantiate the scenario. But, as I talk to myself, I find I repeatedly pose the questions –
Is it possible that Boro’s directional juxtaposition is being hastened because Steve Gibson may be building his business empire, investing in infrastructure away from the club? Could he be playing a dangerous balancing game to try to remain in the Premier League on the cheap (relatively and actually, it’s probably all “we� can afford) to enable 10’s of millions of funds to be channelled into the infrastructural elements of his bigger scheme - the development of golf course, leisure complex, hotel etc, that was being planned/ progressed?
If so, it's a big gamble with the future of MFC. And if it is so, the schizophrenic war has been decided and Steve Gibson, businessman, has triumphed over Steve Gibson, MFC benefactor.
For the town, maybe that’s the right move in the longer term.
But from where most of us are sitting, it doesn’t feel like it!!
If he did pull something like that off, and Boro stayed in the Premiership, he wins. We win. If Boro gets relegated, it sets him back a few years, but he, Steve Gibson, businessman, will survive and flourish over time. Whether Boro does, as part of a Premier League, will be doubtful. In which case, we lose, but we’ll survive too!
Oh, we'll remain as a mid-sized football club. But we won't eat at the top table. We don't have the fundamentals in our favour.
Mr Gibson probably realises this - he's been around the FA corridors of power long enough, for goodness sake. He surely can’t be blind to the now rapid direction that the Premier League is going/ has gone(!)
So the Sky-and-Setanta-backed, new-look elite will soar off into the distance and we'll have a bit of a fancy-dan leisure complex at the extremities of our district to be frequented by.............erm............Darlington supporters and overnighters off the A1?
A far cry from the plane-loads of Barca, Inter and Bayern fans regularly beating a path via Durham Tees Valley International Airport to the door of Steve’s up-market B&B?
Oh well Steve, I hope you do know what you're doing. But from where I and many others on Teesside sit, you're not currently ingratiating yourself any more to the population of your historical heartland!
One of us? Mmmmm! Maybe Mr Gibson’s moved on too!
Well here we are again the fans, the people that care, the people that pay week-in week-out, desperately kicking around options in a situation of impending relegation - foisted upon us YET AGAIN!!
By an arrogant Chairman so out-of-touch with the demands and realities of running a Premiership football club. He is no better than those of the Ridsdale/ Bates/ Ellis/Sugar ilk who have forced their business egos into the football arena with disastrous consequences.
After the Carling Cup win he was carried around, shoulder high, at the Millennium Stadium and proclaiming that he was going to take this club to another level. This Emperor wasn't wearing any clothes and no one paid any attention to the voices pointing this out.
Despite the flirtation with the UEFA Cup, the writing was clearly on the wall as to McClaren's tactical ineptitude and poor transfer dealings. That game against Villa clearly showed the direction in which we were heading.
We had a get-out-of-jail-free card from Barwick and the FA when they took McClaren but, once again, the Emperor promised a top quality replacement "new suit" and what did we get? The same old naked body, only this time showing real wear.
Let's stop 're-arranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic' and focus upon the people who have got us in this position. First, and for the sake of us all, the immediate priority has to be the manager. Southgate has to go.
av
I have to reply on the figure i gave for Cats. Man u and other clubs are paying close to £20m for young players - Nani, Anderson - put them in boros team what would you get? Very little. Put a young Cats in a Man U team with their coaching and players to learn from, what could you get?
I think he has more to offer and more skill than some people give him credit for. I hope we dont sell ourselves short and Riggs is stil young and more consistant than some defenders in prem teams,come to think of it lets keep them
Just a thought.If money is tight has it ever dawned on anybody that if we sack GS CC and Crosby then have to replace them with another manager and backroom staff for whom we would have to pay compo then this could drain what little money we have for players down to zero
This process could cost £5 million plus-the cost of the new forward we definitely need.
Oh and by the way to those saying what about the money we will be receiving from Sky - gate receipts are around £11m - the wage bill is over £30 mill. This summer we had a net spend of around £10m on players. It is the TV money that is paying the bills and wages for Boro and most other smaller Prem clubs.
Whats the point of buying or selling players when the manager and coaching staff are clueless?
The only way we can stay up is to sack the coaching staff and replace them with some staff who have a clue.
How come the only person who saw any good in LDG on saturday was GS? Is he right and all the Boro fans who were at reading wrong?
Keep the team, sack the manager
I have just read the following article
Aston Villa striker Darius Vassell is the No.1 target of Middlesbrough boss Gareth Southgate.
Boro have struggled to score this season, with new signings Mido, Jeremie Aliadiere and Dong Gook-Lee lacking goals.
And Southgate sees his former Villa Park team-mate Vassell - valued at around £1million - as the answer to his problems.
He faces competition from Derby and Bolton.
Has it really come to this?
Now that we have a new goalie our results will improve add to that the return of Arca and Pogatetz and there is more than a little hope.
The biggest risk is Downing leaving in January. I suspect he's had enough of the 'half-cut', bitter, whingeing, 'fans' who regularly question his committment and ability.
He probably feels he'd be more appreciated elsewhere and he's right ! He is and has always been a great Boro player. Good luck to him I just hope he waits until the end of the season.
The depressing thing about being a Boro fan is we seem to have more than our fair share of 'idiots'. I can't think of another club whose fans would succeed in 'driving out' someone of the calibre of Stewart Downing.
Dear AV,
I believe it should be obvious to most that if we had minds like TONY BLACK and RICHARD'S helping to run the show we would not be in the diabolical mess we are in.
It's a bit like being the tragic crew in that Nimrod that went down...we've all set off on a 'routine' journey only to discover that our own side has sabotaged
our 'vehicle' through underfunding, ignorance and blind incompetence.
We'll survive the impending crash although the slow motion aspect to it all will prove to be somewhat draining.
I wonder if it is time to possibly start talking about trying to create an alternative management team supported by a kind of high level 'co-operative' of the great, the good - and even more poignantly - those wealthy enough to fund such an initiative?
It may take a couple of years for this to come to fruition but I would like to think the major shareholder himself might now be prepared to consider this as a possible solution/ way forward.
A mass culling of management is needed now to change the way the club operates. In terms of fan support/PR etc the club is suffering a massive loss in equity; alienating income providers and generators is not a sound commercial tactic.
Oh sorry I forgot about the TV money! - of course 'we' don't really need the fans as much...is it any wonder morale at the club is as low as it is?
And God knows how 'they' could have appointed such a professional lightweight as Marketing Manager? Don't expect volume growth from this lot for a LONG time.
Hahahaha it's so pathetic I actually feel sorry for these dimwits who are completely out of their depth. Remember their first great wheeze of this season was to shut Bernie and Ali up for a season or longer: "You're either with us or against us!" Sweet Jesus what a crew = the Derby and Joan club of Premiership thinking!
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
£6m for Cattermole? That's made my day. I like a good laugh. He would be a world beater at Man U with Nani and Anderson? Oh stop it, my sides are splitting.
Cattermole charges back and forward after the ball like a demented terrier while the Nani's and Anderson's laugh as they pass it back and forth barely suppressing guffaws.
He charges off and either the ball or a player goes through the gap he has vacated. He can't trap and ball. His passes can screw wildly anywhere. The best you can say is that what he does he does for the full 90 minutes.
Saying £6m for Cattermole is as funny as when people used to say he was "the new Stevie G" or would captain England. He could be the new Jamie Pollock (no bad thing) if he is lucky. If he doesn't get his head together fast he could be the new Mark Summerbell.
AV, I'm a bit worried to read in today's Gazette that Arca is going to have a pain killing injection in his knee to help him get over a niggle in time to play this weekend.
OK I'm no doctor, but to me pain is usually the body's way of letting the brain know about an injury that needs resting.
Do the medical team at Boro believe that they've found a way to fool the brain into thinking that a player is not injured?
I think it's a no-brainer - only a fool would risk playing Arca against Arsenal if he's not fully recovered.
Never Happy
Gate is not alone, below is an extract pasted from the Northern Echo, I suppose it could be called a quote of two halves.
'It could be that the fragile Lee, who had turned in one of his best performances since arriving in January before going off with cramp, has had his final chance under Southgate as the transfer window approaches.'
So the question for Never happy is which part of this is true? Two chances, cant be fairer than that.
There again it might all be true and if so it just shows how shocking the rest of his performances have been.
No, I dont wear that, I have to give him full credit for the levels he reached on Saturday, to do otherwise would be mean of me.
Well, It looks like we've missed out on Ronaldinho! I must say I'm suprised and shocked that he would choose Chelsea over a glamour club like Boro.
Well if he chooses to drink the seven times recycled swamp slime that passes for water in London's taps rather than the crisp clear Kielder water Teesside gets, then that's up to him. (although I think he may be able to afford the bottled stuff.)
If Vidukas wages were to be half the ground receipts, how much would Ronny's have been? The stupidity of the story doesn't bear thinking about.
If Gareth's looking for a quick solution to finding scouting staff, can't we just pay someone to follow round Man City's scouts?
I know where that John Darwin chap's been over the last 12 months he's been playing ...... at the Boro
AV - I agree with Werdermouth, why play Arca in a game we are odds on to lose, if another week's rest will have him fit to face Derby?
This has echoes of the Mido injury, working hard will be back soon, oops he should have been resting he is out for months. Dr Nick and the Hurworth witch doctors are ready to strike again.
I have just re-read my earlier post, Vassell plays (gets paid by) for Man City not Villa (that will teach me to cut and paste without reading it properly).
As I was not corrected I think it shows that others might think that Vassell will not be our saviour.
Complete memory loss brought on by serious stress and trauma - that's why we are losing supporters!
I once had a religious experience watching the Boro, I was speaking in tongues and banging my head with a rock.
That Aussie was to blame
Ian - if it was one of LDGs best games then it only confirms that he is rubbish.
Orange Dave - good idea to follow Man Citys scouting staff, even better to follow Arsenals - but you still need some money to buy the players.
Schwarzer training with a cast on and may even be considered for the Arsenal game, I bet that has made Score Draws day.
As I posted in the last blog, I think 3 - 5 - 2 may be the way to go againt the Gooners.
C'Mon Boro!
Looks like Southgate could risk arca in the Arsenal game. Why bother? We will get beat anyway. Sve him for derby away, that's far more important. It has got Mido written all over it and could make the injury worse
If memory serves me right Mr Lamb was not concerned about the lack of season ticket sales in August. He said that the attractive football from Boro would soon have the fans coming back. Would he like to alter his position now?
Earlier this year Gareth Southgate said he had a great bunch of players and couldn't ask more from them. And see where this clap trap has led the Boro.
Even Brian Clough had to have exoerience in a lower division before he became a first class manager. It's not Southgates fault but his experience in a lower division will more than likely come next season when Boro are relegated .
P.S. Any chance of getting VENABLES back?
Score Draw
The similarities between John Darwin and Boro are that not only can we not remember where we've been but we're also up the creek without a paddle - and we don't even have a Kanu...
Werdermouth,
And come the post match comments we'll be reading stuff like 'Noah is Arca as Boro midfield is flooded!'
robin le Parisian
AV - do you know if Schwarzer has a clause in his contract that says he has to play if he is fit?
Surely if Turnbull does well, Schwarzer will not regain his place. After all he is one of the possible saleable assets come January, as he will be off at the end of the season when his contract runs out.
How about Woodgate to the Skunks in a swop deal for Harper and some cash.
**AV writes: Despite the long standing rumours I find it inconceivable that he has such a clause. The truth is that, apart from a brief spell when Crossley was here, he has had very little competition for his place.
People have short memories on Schwarzer, no such thing as the clause in his contract. just that he is the best keeper we have had in 11 years and probably the bet ever keeper we have had. How many keepers play consistently well at the top level for over 11 years?
I'm surprised we managed to keep hold of him for 11 years. Next season it will be the turn of keeper who will be difficult to replace and southgate will make a mess of.
AV - you are probably correct, although Crossley kept a string of clean sheets and was still dropped when MS was fit.
If the Zenden and Viduka episodes are anything to go by, MS will not be offered a new deal and so should if possible be sold in January.
However I can see him sitting out his contract (hopefully at home) as it seems his wages have been the stalling point when he was going to leave for Portsmouth.
MS has been an OK keeper for Boro, put if this seasom is anything to go by he is now well past his best.
Both Turnbull and Jones are Championship standard keepers, and if GS is to stick to his policy of signing young players, then he may as well select Turnbull as it will give him good practice for next season.
Why haven't Boro offered Wheater (contract runs out next summer)a new long term deal yet?
Next seasons Championship team for Boro will be:
Turnbull
MacMahon
Wheater
Pogatetz
Taylor
Porritt
O'Neill
Arca
Johnson
Craddock
Aliadiere
£13M of the £30 sky money to plug the losses at the club.
Downing £7m, Tuncay £4m, Woodgate £4m will all be on their way out of the club after relegation.
Boro would have £30m+ to spend on players, but are more likely to say that the money is needed to pay for the falling crowds and players wages.
It could be far cheaper for SG to bite the bullet, sack GS and his coaching staff and get someone else in ASAP.
The squad is good enough to at least finish 4th bottom of the PL, it just needs someone to get them organised and playing.
John Darwin is like our defence, no idea of positioning, no marking and all at sea.
I suspect the Arsenal team will be even more depleted after playing Allardyces team. He likes to kick lumps off Wenger's boys.
He's so jealous of Wenger it's uncomfortable to watch, yet whenever his team face Man Utd they are always on their best behaviour. If the Gooners survive intact I think the game against the Boro will be good one to watch.
Playing the best team in the world might help the Boro relax and play the football they are capable of. It's no big deal if they get beat - just play well.
I've changed my mind - I'd like to see Joseph Barton playing for the Boro after his stretch at the 'Big House' that is. The shirtless ones won't give him a chance tonight unless he gets a hat-trick.
He obviously has a capacity for violence which is unnacceptable but I think he is capable of growing out of it or having it knocked out of him. He seems to be quite bright but not very good at explaining himself.He'd be a useful addition to O'Neil, Arca, Downing, Cattermole, Johnson.
Offer one of our centre halves plus cash as part of a deal for him and one of their goalkeepers.
The Gookster can go for nowt unless he starts popping in some of those youtube belters that he used to produce.
What a bleeding mess!
We can only prevent over thinning the team further by selling only 1 central defender. Anyone but Pogger .
we are in enough trouble without selling Downing and Johnson who have no striker to cross to.If Arca or Tuncay is sold I will go mental as I see these 2 as good playmakers.O'Neil is too good to go ....
Why does Soouthgate stick with Tuncay and Alladierre up front so they can form a partership quicker.Stop putting Downing up front and stop giving it the negative every time you open your mouth to the press.
Just show some experience and grace by ripping yer shirt off and yell UP THE BORO coz there are people who are doubting you big time , not Gibbo as yet though.
PS. I spoke with a mate of mine who is a Bristol City fan after the cup draw was made and he was rubbing his hands and laughing while telling me how good Bristol are playing at the mo.
Needless to say I set the dog on him.
Cant believe i was sat in the Tees Bridge club after the Villa game with 8 lads that used to go to the game with me and listening to how poor we are and other various opinions about the team, the manager, chairman etc.
It fills me with sadness that mates and family who live so close to the ground are so negative about Boro and wont go and support the lads albeit they stay in the club and watch the game.
For 15 years I've lived away from Teesside and though i do miss some home games (made up with away games) I've had to take a serious look at my own commitment to Boro.
I never thought i would ever hear someone slating Gibbo but after the last game and looking on this forum i dont seem so shocked - saddened and disapointed but not shocked.
I haven t felt this bleak about tne Boro since the early 80 s
Realistically we need to buy, we all accept this, however we cannot sell our best players to fund buys as we need them,. I wouldnt even consider selling Downing, trust me he will come good again. He gets a lot of stuck but he isn't the only player under performing.
If you want to sell someone, controversial this, sell Mido & Alidiere. Why? Mido doesnt care, he has already hinted that he wont make the African Nations Cup due to his injury, so if he was fit & despite our position, I'm reading that as he would go! Shows his loyalty there.
Aliadiere, sorry but I was there against villa & he didnt look injured, he ran for the ball, didnt get it, walked away, didnt pull up once, another long ball was played, he didnt bother chasing it, turned to bench & said take me off. The guy doesnt want to play for a struggling team, get him out.
That would free up some cash, along with the rest of money we got for Yak and the money we had lined up for Viduka (so dont try tell me there is nothing to spend as I dont believe it).
I would go for Lita, he is strong & wants to play and wants to score, he is type of player we need. I would test Bolton & try for Kevin Davis, again a big and strong player to hold up the ball. Then we can give Tuncay his roaming role behind them to hopefully come in and create/score the goals.
I would also go and raid LA Galaxy to see if they would allow that Donavan gadgy to come over on loan.
A way to create a bit more cash, dont forget that Andrew Davies is out on loan with a view to an alleged £1m transfer, we could get about £1.5m for Riggott (although I would keep him as think he is one of our better defenders), sell Woodgate, Huth is good enough to replace him as is Poggi & bear in mind young Wheater is currently out shinning him, it may be worth cashing in.
Also we could get about £500k for scharwzer & for same amount poss get Sorrenson or Harper.
Dear AV,
I've just woken up and forgotten where I've been for the last 5 years! I thought I had been supporting the most progressive football club in the country.
Silverware at last, best youth academy under the tutelage of Dave Parnaby (Manager of the future?), UEFA Cup Final, best Community Trust under George Cooke etc.
But I have discovered it was just one vast delusion, a shimmering chimera created by my desert like febrile imagination. Doh!
I better get mesen down the cop shop and find out why I've become the feeble-minded cretin I palpably am...they'll know what do with us won't they?
Robin Ding Dong Merrily On High!!!
SIMON BROON - Do you fancy becoming Daddy Crimbo next year?
To Ian Oliver:
Ian, to quote your post......
"By an arrogant Chairman so out-of-touch with the demands and realities of running a Premiership football club. He is no better than those of the Ridsdale/ Bates/ Ellis/Sugar ilk who have forced their business egos into the football arena with disastrous consequences."
Ian,
I genuinely don't think Steve Gibson is out-of-touch with what it takes to run a Premiership Football Club. I just don't think he can afford to run a successful, genuinely competitive Premier League Football Club in the long term, any more. Not because Steve Gibson isn't rich or hasn't got any business or executive managerial capabilities - he's already proved that he has!
He simply isn't rich ENOUGH!
Regrettably, the facts are, I believe, that the Premier League is in the (very rapid) process of financially outgrowing the Middlesbroughs of this world (sorry, "country").
The boost in revenues from TV (especially this season) created a window of opportunity for those from overseas predominantly - who's playing field is international business played on the global scale (- NOT local hauliers!) and with available financial backing to seize the opportunity to grab a slice of the Premier League action in the form of INTERNATIONALLY recognised "brands" (clubs) whose location and/or critical mass enables them to be developed INTERNATIONALLY and also satisfy the criteria most beneficial to the other financial stakeholders in the Premier League. I refer to Sky, Setanta and the news media - all of whom benefit most from headcount. And where are the heads? In cities! And in front of TV's the world over!
I have been fortunate enough to travel the world (Far East and Asia) on business and on holiday for many years and I eventually became blasé to the conversations struck up by local residents in the many countries I visited, about the English Premiership and the knowledge of those locals about our Premiership clubs and competition.
They're in front of their TV's several times a week watching our clubs perform - and they're paying the TV Networks for the privilege. So every TV, or associated or affiliated network that takes Sky or Setanta makes them money. That's one hell of a lot of TVs! And a lot of money for Sky.
In this country, similarly, the big money for them is in high population density areas - cities! So we shouldn't be surprised when for example, as we saw earlier this year, the case of Yakubu's transfer to Everton being actively and positively encouraged by sections of the international and national media.
It's in their interests for clubs in high-population density areas to be successful and to populate the Premier League. To expect them to "support", promote or even take any kind of preferential (or even-handed)interest in provincial clubs would be naive.
It is up to us in this region/ district, to make the most of our own lot but, in this particular race, we’re not close to being favourites. It’s not a handicap race where allowances for accidents of geography or history are made!
As I've said in AV's blogs in the past, with financial " very heavy-hitters" moving, shaking and shaping the future of the Premier League, don't blame Steve Gibson for not being richer than he is! And there's no one to blame either for the geographic and demographic conditions that resulted in Middlesbrough being what and where it is!
We’re not in London or Manchester or Liverpool or Birmingham or even Newcastle or Sunderland (for heavens sake!).
If sufficient financial backing was available to overcome certain “natural� disadvantages, Boro could be made competitive. But the risk/reward balance is greater for us than for the low-hanging fruit of clubs whose natural attributes are more in keeping with the success criteria required by the (very) big-monied stakeholders.
Obviously on paper on even on Football Manager, I still believe our current crop of players are good enough to get us out of the bottom 3 with maybe a 16-17th place finish.
But I sense somethings wrong with the backroom staff & the players. GS selections are bizarre and outrageous. Choose anyone in this forum and they're probably do a big better job.
Just drop the players who look like their heart is gone. Drop Schwarzer, Woody, Downing, Rocky. In place of them Turnbull, Huth, Jonno, & Boat should do better. Let our international stars fight for their place. And if by January they don't hit their grade...sack GS.
No use in selling our stars if he can't manage this team..new players who will dare come will never be close to this grade.
If history serves me right,GS will not be fired as same as all his predecessors. So get a quick mentor like
Terry Venebles in the past or even a Steve McClaren would do.
A new striker should be needed. Just find someone who is hunger to prove his worth in the Premiership. Old stars like Hasselbank or Fowler or a Paul Dickov or loan players like Dave Nugent whom made big name in premiership but hardly made the Portsmouth team.
I support keeping all our players and if results don't come...overhaul the backstaff!!
It is a disgrace the fact we are even contemplating selling some of our best players in order to strengthen the ranks.
Where the hell as the cash saved from Viduka's wages, Yakubu's £11.25m sale and James Morrison £2m gone? Not to mention the supposed bonanza from the TV rights?
True we spent £13m on Aliadiere, Mido and Tuncay as I feel we had the cash for Woodgate last season! But we still must have some funds left to sign a few players!
If we start wheeling and dealing with our best players we are going down! Mind you I think that looks a certainty anyway at the moment unless Tuncay can suddenly click and prove to be a 20-goal a season man!
Jester Joke,
Re: Hasselbank = yer jokin arnt yu? Went to see him playing for Charlton at the end of last season and he's fat (alright he can still run quicker than you and me) and the club needs fit as buthcher's dogs players.
I don't think another 'flying pig' is a fitting solution in this league. This kind of idea surely shows there's FOGG ON THE TEES thinking here?
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
Just imagine you are this gadgie who went canoeing and has just resurfaced after an absence of 5 years. Imagine he is a Boro fan and knows nothing about what has happened at the club in his absence.
He wakes up this week to find Boro struggling at the foot of the PL with an inept manager and a team seriously incapable of surviving. So no change there then he musht think!
Now tell him these facts:
Feb 2004
The club beat Bolton in Cardiff to win the club's first ever major trophy. The club reach the final with home and away victories over Arsenal in the semis. On the back of this the club play in Europe for the first time in its history.
Season 2004/5
On the back of european qualification the club sign major international strikers like Hasselbaink and Viduka plus highly rated internationals like Reiziger - just like the days of Juninho and Rav! Acreditable first ever performance in Europe sees the club seruiously threaten to go all the way in the UEFA Cup and may have done so but for an unprecendented injury list in the later stages. However the team then qulaifies for Europe again on league placing. Amongst their victims in this cuprun are the mighty Lazio.
Season 2005/6
The team reach the FA Cup semi final again and also the UEFA Cup final! This time beating the likes of Stuttgart, Roma, Basle and Steuea Bucharest en route.
Today
Back where they were when he vanished.
How could anyone seriously expect him to believe all that!
Ya jokin arn ya
Schwarzer has said that he's ready to play on sunday with a plastic guard on his broken thumb.
I would only consider this option if the plastic guard is eight foot high and 16 foot wide.
GS needs to play Arca on Sunday, even if he needs a pain killing injection. To not play him on the basis that we're going to loose so why bother, would be madness.
We need our strongest side out and playing with the attitude that we're going to win. Arsenal are not invincible, the barcodes got a result so we can to.
As for the keeper, I'd play Turnbull ahead of Schwarzer, he looked good at Reading and it may give Schwarzer a kick up the posterior.
What intrigues me in terms of team selection are the centre backs, plenty to choose from , I'd play Woodie and Huth.
To my mind there is no way that Schwarzer has a broken thumb. He's not the sort to play through the 'pain barrier'.
"There's something rotten in the state of Middlesbrough"
If Turnbull is dropped I predict it will bring about an ugly revolt down by the Riverside. It'll be the end of Southgate for sure.
What sort of weirdoes are in charge of this club ? The way they have played with my emotions over the last couple of weeks would be considered abusive in any normal relationship.
To be 'lied to' about Schwarzer is the final straw, my family and friends down the pub will be devastated having to listen to me drone on like some 'boring ecological recycling evangelist'. It's not fair on them !!!
It's the lies that hurt most.
Turnbull forever !!!!
**AV writes: You have got to admire a man who plays up to his own stereotype.
Just sprayed the wall with coffee after reading 'Schwarzer ready to play with thumb guard'.
Why not put that mask back on him and send him out with a pot leg as well? Joking apart, Turnbull PLEASE!
Oh, and play Tuncay and Aliadiere every game, not Lee Dong Goof.
I'm not one of the growing crowd of fans who think Schwarzer is now an incompetent liability so I'm happy with him being no.1 for a few months longer.
That said Given his thumb is not healed and Turnbull did a decent job last week and looked confident it would be a travesty to drop him. Turnbull in goal on Sunday, Tuncay up front and Arca in midfield.
I have never read so much utter rubbish in all my life...as all the above posts..... where are you all coming from.
I agree get rid of Gareth..an bring MOGGA back..he's BORO through an through...he's done wonders at HIBS and WBA..with their youth.... with MOGGA he would keep the home born talent...WHY do we have an academy ?
Can't believe the posts that we sell stewie an johnno... .these are our bedrocks an we have to build around them...forget imports...sell the mido's..tunguy's and all the rest of the useless big buys that don't wear the badge on their heart...
AV start a new thread/poll SOUTHGATE OUT / MOGGA IN ....let the fans vote..
Rant over
R&R
Jazzee
Ps.. Wasn't it Hansan that said you cant win the league by playing kids....LOL
An excellent article by Jeff Winter, a voice of reason while the rest of us descend into mass hysteria as we stare into the Championship abyss!
As we all know, no matter what is posted on this blog GS will be his own man and pick his team.
It is with this in mind and just to prove a point of how he knows best, I fear we will see a one handed Schwarzer in goal and a clueless Gook up front.
Tuncay will be left to fume on the bench and a chorus of you don't know what youre doing will be echoing around the Riverside before full time.
I hope I am wrong but I fear the worst.
C'Mon Boro!
Richard
Your argument about the smaller Prem clubs going to the wall or the Championship only holds water so far.
There are still several reasonably successful clubs run by benificent local chairmen such as Gibbo, and as has been posted on here many times, some of them aren't particularly attractive to the rich foreign buyer. Boro are certainly one of those.
But most of these clubs are run successfully and some do remarkably well in a Prem of haves and have-nots. I'm thinking particularly of Bolton and Blackburn.
Both are run on a shoe-string and until Bolton's demise this season, both have perennially punched above their weight. They both play to their strengths very well. And Boro are the most successful cup side of the last 10 years outside the big 4 and have a UEFA Cup final appearance in the very recent past. Not many other Prem clubs, wealthy or not, can boast that record.
Where I think it's going wrong for us now is not just financial. It's much more about poor decisions that have been made - definitely about replacing strikers with an unproven combination, and almost certainly (though I still hope to be proved wrong about this) appointing the wrong manager.
Never Happy
I might be wrong, but I think Darius Vassell now plays for Man City. Your point is right, though! He couldn't score in a brothel last season, and can't get into the first 11 this year!! Spare us, please!
Good news, Arsenal are set to be Missing Fabregas, Hleb & Flamini on sunday.
Bad news, Schwarzer is declaring himself fit.
For me the team should be (if everyone is fit):
Turnbull
Young
Huth
Poggi
Taylor
Johnson
O'Neil
Boateng
Downing
Tuncay
Alidiere
subs: Jones, Rocky, Cattermole, Wheater, Hutchinson.
Thats a team that should compete and hopefully give a few players a kick up the bum.
Everyone is slaging off GS however I dont hear anyone praising him for what he did with Woodgate against Reading. He actually came out and said he was not injured & was taken off as GS was unhappy with the way he defended for their goal as it was 2 similar to the 3rd that Villa got the week before.
Sorry but that is the right thing to do for me, why protect the player, hopefully he will see he now has to fight for his place.
Jazzeejeff, forget about Mogga, if your looking for a manager look elsewhere, Mogga has already stated that he doesnt want the job as he is considered a legend here and doesnt want to ruin that.
Surely the only way to improve any team is to have competition for places.With this in mind no player should be guaranteed his place in the team.
Turnbull did well at Reading and so he should keep his place.Not only will this boost his confidence it will also let Schwarzer know that he will need to work hard if he is to regain his place in the team.
It must be soul destroying for a player to come into the team, play well and then be dropped just because a so called senior player is back from injury or suspension.
C’mon Boro!
Sell Woody- you've been on the sauce Vic.
Lets release Bates, Gook and Schwarzer.
We should bring in Sorensen so the backline can get used to him.
We'll do okay for goals as Mido missing the African Nations Cup means we'll get the big man back fully fit. When fit, him and Tuncay will get goals aplenty.
Hopefully Schwarzer doesnt have the same hold over Southgate that he seemed to have over Mclaren.
Can anybody else remember Mark Crossley. Played well everytime he was called upon (kinda like harper at newcastle) but for some strange reason beyong the knowledge of all fans, they get dropped for keepers who are deemed to be the number 1 who then play their normal game leaving you wondering as to why your reserve keeper got dropped.
For me, stick with Turnbull, not only coz he played well against Reading but the fact that he will come under a lot more pressure against arsenal and we need to see how he handles it. Bear in mind that schwarzer is out of contract, Turnbull could save us some money on a new keeper.
The other reason why I'd stick with Turnbull is schwarzer has already stated he doesnt know how we will react if he gets caught on his thumb (if i was arsenal players id deliberatly target it with shots and made sure i caught it as i was running past him). The other reason is, Brad Jones is pants, he is the only keeper ive ever seen that can actually throw the ball further than he can kick it.
To Clive Hurren:
Clive,
I accept your points fully about the "exceptions" - there have always historically been some and Portsmouth, Bolton, Boro, Reading, Wigan, and Blackburn, to name a few, have, with others, all been there at some time in the last 10 years. I hesitate to include Portsmouth although they are there currently, because they have spent a fair bit of money bringing Redknapp back and players in.
I'm taking a longer term view about sustainability and the ability of provincial clubs to be able to challenge for European places with more than an outside chance of getting a shot at it.
There are clear signs from the points distribution this season that all of the European qualifying positions henceforth may get monopolized by the bigger "city" clubs with money behind them.
There are 6 (or 7) available "slots". We can assume that 4 of them will go to Man U, Chelski, Arsenal and Liverpool. That leaves 2 (or 3 at best) to be “contested�.
Everton, Man City, Villa, West Ham, Spurs, Newcastle (if they ever again get their act together!) will all have access to greater funding in years to come. On balance, they'll be able to buy better players and appoint better managers and coaching staff than the rest of us.
If you study the drift in end-of-season points in the Premiership/ League over its history, you'll find consistently, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer (in points terms!). And this season, the split - the polarisation - at this stage in the season, is greater than ever before between the top and bottom half.
New records are being set so far, for points distribution, with the top end gaining more than ever before at the expense of the bottom end. And those in the top end (with the exception of the aberrations that are Spurs and Blackburn), are those who have invested heavily with new financial backing. They've essentially "bought" their league positions!
That is what I am attempting to highlight in my postings I guess. And to acknowledge that Gibson's financial support is finite and limited, probably, to orders of magnitude less than can be made available to the clubs that have been taken over by (mostly foreign - but not quite exclusively) investment.
If Boro are to compete for European places, as we all had hoped would be the case after the euphoria of our two consecutive seasons there, we'd better find some more money from somewhere - and spend it wisely!
I agree with you about variability of identity of the occasional “cheeky challenger� who dares punch above their weight perhaps for a season or two. But sustained challenge for maintainable higher position does require greater ongoing financial commitment. And that’s the main difference!
If you look at who constitutes the upper echelons more frequently, generally, it's those who spend more. OK, it’s not rocket science. But if we are to be genuinely ambitious for ranking improvement, let’s not kid ourselves that we can do so by tinkering with what we’ve got or trading mediocre for other mediocre.
If we’re serious about ranking improvement, we better find ways of financing it more heavily than Steve Gibson seems able to currently. Otherwise you are depending on good luck to a very large extent. And as every bookie will tell you, without stacked odds, reliance on luck is not a strategy for success over time.
And the past (history) is not a great guide to the future either. The league dynamics have been altered significantly. As have those of the national team as a consequence of the huge finances now involved in the club game.
At least, that's how I read it!
The only reason Swartzer has been here so long is that nobody else wanted him. If the "big boys" had wanted him they would have got their man.
The reason they did not want him was that it's obvious (outside the cabal that spins for him in the local media for whatever reason), that he is at best average and at worst an error prone clone of "Calamity James".
The fact that he has been an automatic choice in perpetuity, despite dodgy form is a poor reflection on the club, it infers they are weak and this individual obviously has had moments where he thought he was rather bigger than it.
Schwrazer only wants to play to put his skinny-no-good-frame in the shop window. Get the Aussie OUT!
At last someone has identified the real cause of our problems - Lawro has highlighted the fact our pitch is too big. Thats a relief because I thought we are where we are because we are c**p.
He is right in that we will have to hassle and chase, the last thing we want to do is get into a beauty contest with the Gunners. Play good football by all means but it is essential to make their lives a misrey. But why am I saying this? We should be doing it in every match.
After the weekend I think we may some daylight between the bottom three and the rest, sadly I fear we will be the wrong side of it.
Clive I did correct myself in a later post.
I have just read:
"Manchester City's Darius Vassell, a former team-mate of the Boro boss during his playing days with Aston Villa, is the latest to be considered.
"And Vassell's £1m price-tag would certainly be more appealing, given that first choice James Beattie (£6m) would cost much more than the cash the manager expects to have available."
How can Boro not have 6m to spend on a player in January?
I am not saying spend 6m on Beattie, however if Boro don't have this amount of money to spend, someone's head should roll over a blatent mismanagement of club funds.
As an earlier poster reminded us, Mr Lamb was happy for season ticket holders not to renew, as the club would make more money from walk up fans.
What was he on when he said this?
How come everyone on this blog said 'what walk up fans?'
Yet again a case of Mr Lamb living in cloud cuckooland and not the Boro.
Poor decisons on and off the pitch are now coming back to haunt the club, yet we still hear nothing from Mr Gibson.
On to Sunday and I still think a
3 - 5 - 2 set up is the way to go.
Play 4 - 4 - 2 and the gunners will pass us to death.
Play LDG and we may as well not bother turning up, it will be hard enough playing with 11 against Arsenal, so no point in starting with 10 and a non runner.
When Mr Gibson promised us a 'top manager' I was hoping for someone like Capello.
After reading about him in the following article:
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/article3231157.ece
I can now see why GS has failed as the Boro boss
We are on dodgy ground here.
The only way to improve is to keep your best players and add to them (downing,woodgate,oneil,arca).
If you sell these just to survive then next year you are in the same position needing to add a couple of top class players to stand still but if you sell the up and coming lads and we still go down the big guys will bale out and the young lads that would have got us back up wont be there to save us.
What we need s a couple of cheap foriegn guys. We dont need to compete with the top boys- barca milan,man utd, we are not going for the same players anyway, we are competeing with the Stuttgarts, Dutch and Belgian teams and no matter how skint we can still compete with them
Ian
I too read Lawro’s pitch size reason for Boro’s poor form with some mirth. Can all our ills really be down to having too much grass to play on?
This prompted me to check out the regulations for pitch size – bizarrely the range of permitted sizes are quite incredible – length: 100-130 yards and width: 50-100 yards.
Boro’s pitch is 115x75 yards – which is almost exactly the size of Arsenal’s.
Anyway, a quick check on other pitch sizes in the premiership looked pretty similar (give or take a few yards) – However, Newcastle’s is quite small at 105x68 yards and they managed to stop Arsenal’s passing game last week.
So perhaps the solution for Sunday’s game is to narrow the pitch to 50 yards and play with a 5 man midfield?
If Arca needs a jab to play then dont play him, give him another week.
Werdermouth - good plan, but I think I read somewhere that you have to stick to the same pitch size all season.
Imagine the whinging that Wenger would do if we could reduce the pitch size.
Hopefully we will somehow get a result and still have the pleasure of hearing Wenger whine.
If the Ameobi rumour turns out to be true, who will check his fitness?
As the Mido and Huth episodes have proved, those who have previously conducted medicals for new signings are not doing to well.
Also why is Southgate targeting a player with a poor injury record? If he is not good enough for the Skunks then he is not good enough for the Boro!
Buying second rate or past it PL strikers (Vassell) is not the way to take the club forward.
AV: Please be advised that there are now 2 people posting here as "Richard" and "richard" - the only name distinction so far, being upper-case "R" in my case and lower case in the other guy's.
This may lead to (even more!) confusion and possible misrepresentation or misinterpretation of personal views.
I've been unaware of the second "richard" having posted here before. Can you please recommend what I should do to retain integrity and uniqueness of identity?
I never have posted under aliases and don't intend to start doing so now.
**AV writes: It's like when we had a scrum of Nigels posting. It was very confusing, especially when they started arguing. I can't make him change his name though. I'm sure you'll both devleop distinct voices over time.
Ameobi might not be a bad buy, yes he has had injury problems but the reason for this might be not enough games and reCcurring injuries due to lack of 1st team football.
What would you rather have - Ameobi for a few million or Chopra for£5m? I'd take ameobi all the time but if this is the quality we are looking it we need to take risks.
We all know we are tight for money so why is every one expecting us to go pay £17m on a top striker? The days of the Ravanellis, Juninhos and Emersons are gone so move on a think about where we are right now not 10 years ago.
We are a club that is happy to be in this league and its being drilled into us time and again, we as fans need to wake up and see what the club is telling us. THERE WILL BE NO MORE EXPENSIVE BUYS AT THIS CLUB. Stop expecting them and get behind this club and make sure we are in this league come August.
MFC PLEASE REDUCE TICKET PRICES AND BRING BACK THE FANS.
COME ON BORO !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I've never been in a scrum before! As for arguing you've definitley got the wrong man!!
'Nigel - the blind side *#anker'
AV - just to confirm that I will continue to post as Never Happy, even though it appears no one is happy on this blog at the moment.
We really must stop thinking in monetary terms alone.
I fully appreciate the fact that we are limited in what we have to spend, but as I said in a previous post we have spent around £25m of late, and I think that this is a good figure with which you can create a good, solid team that can claim a European spot.
Without going into details again, for me it's as much about having a positive, winning attitude in everything that you do, as opposed to this perennial stench of defeatism that comes out of every nook and cranny.
The main problem at the moment with regards getting the very best out of what we have, yet again comes back to
GS and Coops.
The Arsenal game is a dead loss and should be used as a template for the next few months.
I'd go 442 with Tuncay and Ali up front.
I'd either play for a draw from the start and hope to hang on, Italian style, or I'd go at them with all guns blazing to try and get a goal, and then I'd play defensive for the rest of the game in the hope to keep the lead, or at least get a draw.
Either way I'd try a plan of action that might surprise Arsenal.
We're not realistically going to win this game by just playing our usual game as we just aren't in any shape to do so, so we need to try and come up with a strategy that gets us something.
I don't usually advocate this, but we must be realistic now and focus only on saving our Premiership status.
So the last thing I would contemplate doing is sticking a great big needle into Arca, a man that we desperately need to be fully fit for the games that we can win, and that we must win.
This to me shows yet again a rookie pair making rookie mistakes.
TB
If we can't make our pitch smaller, maybe we can make our players wider to compensate?
Richard and richard - don't worry, we can tell you apart.
AV,
Sorry if my last post was too libelous to post, but even optimistic fans like me are getting nervous.
Tuncay and Alliadiare should be given an extended run in the side up front together.
Woodgate should be at least temporarily dropped to wake him up a bit. He was most at fault for Reading's goal.
Also, I can't believe how many of us have given up this game against Arsenal as lost. If that's our attitude, we are as good as down. Let's play with heart and go for a surprise win.
**AV writes: Neil, the last post from you I can find is three days ago and I think it was used in full. Are you sure you hit the right button?
JC - I think we tried the wider players route with Ricketts, no matter pies he ate, we still didn't beat other teams!
I'm worried that our next striker may be the same quality, and names like Ameobi don't fill me with confidence.
Can anyone give a decent list of proven quality goalscorers in any of the top leagues that are the type we want, that we could afford, and would come here?
Maybe we can give Southgate some suggestions, sounds like he could use the help as we already know what his feelings about the abilities of Boro scouts are.
AV, I don't see it, but it's no big deal. It's probably a better thing that I "pressed the wrong button".
I was practically foaming at the mouth when I watched Lee Drop Down against Reading. My four year old son even asked me why he was always on the ground!
Let's just say my emotions got the better of me, and I posted some choice words about Southgate and how he had to be braver.
Anyway...I hope we can avoid our traditional thumping at the hands of Arsenal, and that we can avoid our traditional Christmas period where we don't accumulate many points.
memo to the r(R)ichards.
how about big dick, little dick?
jc
John Powls and myself offered to play right side on the basis we may not be good or pacy but are a waste of a lot of space. As we are constantly after wide men we certainly fit the bill.
As for the debate over which Richard is posting I have put the problem to the design boffins and come up with the novel idea of adding either the intial first letter or full surname. That wasnt difficult wasnt it.
Arsenal on sunday then, oh the joys...
Actually it might not be a bad time to play them, weather will be awfull and they are missing a few key players.
As good a time as any i wuould say to get stuck into them and have a good go.
We have got to pack the midfield o'neill inside with boateng and shawky downing and johnson wide and tuncay upfront.
yes tuncay is a bit lightweight and not realy tried up there on his own but i think the midfield can keep the ball and use the flanks to get up the middle and support him we could be on to a winner.
AV, with attendances the way they are would it not be wise for MFC to come out and reduce prices for the remaining games?
yes it would be unfair on season ticket holders but they pay for the privelidge of getting a guaranteed seat so prices are going to be higher.
Lets reduce prices for the remaining games and get sum more fans in there to give us support and keep us in this league...
Ian - that really would be packing out the midfield.
I'm Spartacus!
"I will continue to post as Never Happy, even though it appears no one is happy on this blog at the moment."
Speak for yourself mate, I'm loving the negativity on here!!!!
It all seems a bit odd having more than one Richard supporting Boro - it's not as if it's a common name.
Maybe FIFA should introduce a blog quota system to prevent too many Richards being allowed to support one club - otherwise before we know it there'll be no opportunities available in the blog for an up-and-coming Peter or Paul.
I guess I'm just lucky my parents named me Werdermouth...
Memo to Billy: Ref your helpful suggestion.....OK by me, since I'll be Big Dick - claimed on the basis of Upper Case "R" of course!-........but only of you agree to become known as Little Willie! :D
Memo to Spartacus:
Are you the Spartacus that went to St Patrick's RC School in Stockton - or are you the other spartacus (small "s") that didn't?
Memo to JC (The one Billy Connolly called "The Big Yin"?): Bet you can walk on water too! Maybe you should be playing on Sunday - or do you know the score already?
Memo to Ian Gill: Far too sensible Ian! But not wishing my surname to be published is intentional, so it would be up to the moderators/ blog owner (AV) to uniquely identify us/ distinguish between us by using first letter of surname when posts came in. And I suspect they won't want to be bothered by that.
A bit of light relief eh? Great!
Bring on the Arsenal!
Spartacus - Any chance of sending me a photo of your daughter-in-law, that Catherine Zeta Jones is well tasty!
Neil(USA) You're right, if the Boro have the same attitude as some of the fans the game is lost already. I'm working on the basis of Ian Gill's theory that three points pop up when least expected.
Come on TB be positive, this is football, Boro might turn in the performance of the season and by Monday we'll all be dreaming of hitting a UEFA cup spot by May!
My team would be:
Turnbull, Young, Woodie, Huth, Pogie, O'Neill, Rocky, Arca,
Downing, Aliadiere, Tuncay.
Score 2-0, one each for Ali & Tuncay. You heard it here first!
Dear Dicks,
You think that's bad?....well I'll tell you there's some shmuck posting as Robin Mitton which is my name too!
Don't know where this doppelganger has come from but if he uses it again I'll sue the fraudulent little shyster!
Will you come to court and support me on this issue AV?
The Original Robin Mitton
**AV writes: Oh no, there are two of him now!
Ameobi isnt the answer, I read that he would be better option than lita as he is stronger than lita. Are you kidding me here?
Ameobi isnt an out & out forward, he prefers to play going towards goal (like tucay & alidiere) and not with his back to it (like viduka). Lita is younger, quicker, less injury prone & will prob be cheaper and get you more goals.
Typical boro will ignore these facts and go for shola.
If it were up to me, id try a very cheeky loan bid for..... Shevchenko. Why? you dont become a bad forward over nite, he would be the main man here, something he thrieves on, he can use us for 6 months and prove he can cut it and get goals in premiership & prove chelsea wrong. end of season if he wants to stay then good, if not thanks for the goals.
We have a world of scouts out there apparently, do we actually have any stationed in this country looking for english talent, prob not.
I'll throw 2 names at you now and tell me what you think. 1st one: Henrik Larson, coming to end of his contract and would be worth getting him here even at the age he is.
2nd one is: Kerlon, that brazilian kid, we were meant to be keen in the summer till he got injured, where is he now?
Other thing I will say is we need to start using our ex players, we have Fjortoft & Branca in good positions surely we can contact them to see if they can recommend anyone for loan from their clubs.
Finally... Bring back Doriva!
Richard
An surname initial wouldnt identify you. There again we dont know if you are a Richard!
Nigel
Which blindside flamker are you? Luckily (or not depending on your view) as I post under Ian Gill I do pose the point that three points do arrive from unlikely sources. Sadly that presupposes that Gate will start with a sensible team.
Meanwhile in Reading Phil and his sister are hiding in the uhderstair cupboard im Harry Potter mode whilst John Powls considers the meaning of MFC. Mrs P is no doubt wondering what all the fuss is about.
The really bad news is I have a friend coming round to watch the football on Sunday and he is the kiss of death. Can Arsenal declare at half time?
Football, like life, is about choices - the best get them right more often, that's why expertise and experience are so highly valued.
Sometimes circumstances create windows of opportunity - we had one after Eindhoven. Unfortunately, Steve Gibson made the wrong choice of coach, and so the choices - tactics, player selection and recruitment, and choice of support staff have been poor. We needed experience and expertise and we have neither.
Because those making the decisions about which players we may sell and buy in January lack sufficient capability we can look forward to more mistakes - particularly as drained confidence, impossible budgets (relative to requirements) and high levels of stress all mitigate against good judgement.
There is no point buying players with a poor record of injuries, or who have failed at other clubs - this isn't what we need, especially if we have to sell our prized assets to buy them.
In the circumstances, reducing the pitch to the minimum permitted size and packing the midfield with combative players (such as we possess) sadly, in this cloud of despondency, seems like a sensible option...
As regards Arsenal and the Schwarzer and Arca dilemas, is there anyone who really believes that there is the ability in our coaching team to come up with an effective plan of action that would justify taking such risks??? I thought so....
Diablo Derek Darlo-
I understand you are a Man Utd Customer ?
After opening your Man Utd advent calendar, showering with your Man Utd shower gel and slapping on some Ronaldo hair glue (tested only on Man Utd fans) you no doubt pour out a bowl of Red Devil flakes (prawn flavoured of course). Dressed in your Man Utd pyjamas you logon (do they do a Man Utd laptop ?) to a Boro Blog!
There's something missing in your life darling. Shouldn't you be logged on to some Indonesian site chatting up a Man Utd ladyboy? In the meantime it's always nice to hear from you on this site. In a spooky way you make me feel superior.
Darlington, Man Utd client, Boro Blogs a strange mix dont you agree? Retain hope there are people out there who can help people like you. I can put you in touch with a footballing psychiatrist if you wish?
He'll meet you outside the Magnet in Grangetown. Wear your Man Utd 'lounge suit' so he can recognise you. By the way it wont be Bill Beswick.
Hey! I can see the Riverside from up on this cross!
As if being crucified wasn't enough....
Always look on the bright side of life, de-do, de-do, de-do, de-do.....
Nigel - no daughter-in-law of mine is having anything to do with any more flankers. It was bad enough she married one. An old one at that.
I've decided to sacrifice myself on the alter of Slaven ,after much thought and hundreds of letters from GS and SG pleading with me to save the club I've made the decision to add a 'w' .
Apparently if I hadn't been too bone idle to press the caps key on me r we'd have been deducted 15 points
PS weve got to win sun now the weight has been lifted from the players!!
**AV writes: I am glad this has all been resolved amicably.
dear werdermouth if we had more like you and a few marmadukes and chummly smythes surely wed be top of the league by now
Yakubu got a hat trick today. Thank God we got rid of that useless, lazy, money grabbing loser.
HAHA. We had the last laugh though, Lee's amazing and he'll sell us a million shirts in Korea...
TB
"Diablo Derek Darlo-
I understand you are a Man Utd Customer ?"
By 'eck, theres no fooling you, is there Sherlock!
" In a spooky way you make me feel superior."
Considering that you live in the "worst place in England" and your football team is a national joke, I suppose you have to cling to any positives you can so if "feeling superior to me" floats your boat, I am very pleased for you Ethel.
"I can put you in touch with a footballing psychiatrist if you wish?" Save the visit to the psychiatrist for yourself and your chums, you need it to rid yourselves of the negativity that comes from living in your town and following your football club.
By the way, did I ever mention that Bury FC have won "meaningful" trophIES in their existance. Do you think Boro will ever win one?
Merry Christmas......
AV
In following the debate closely on this thread, it still seems to me that a lot of people are missing the obvious.
I was called "an idiot" on the previous thread for mentioning asset stripping, however even someone with a feeble mind like myself can see what is happening, it has happened before.
A business man comes in who pledges to take the club to new heights and indeed usually has some initial form of success, instead of that success being built on, it all turns pear shaped from there.
I have no axe to grind against SG and indeed in my last post I said he was responsible for the proudest moment of my Boro supporting life.
But those days are long gone, Neil from Baku touched upon what is happening SG could well be concentrating on other parts of his business empire presumably and I do not think I am being slanderous here, he can use profits from one part of his business interests to support another.
We need as supporters to face facts, what is the point of mentioning decent players who are not even being contemplated and in fact we are being treated with contempt by stories about Ronaldinho, another sensational transfer to follow the likes of Dean Windass!!!
Why call for the Gate to be sacked? No chance, the asset stripping began with his appointment and he will remain in place until we are mid table Championship.
The situation at the Riverside has become a farce, only we could sign a striker who needs rest and have a goal keeper who must play if he is fit. Meanwhile the procession of players saying, we just need a win and a few players`back from injury goes on and on, add to that the Gates comments that get more and more bizarre.
Dark days indeed
The point has been made before, I support the Boro, not SG/Lamb etc and will be hoping for three points today, however unlikely!!
Strip out all that you may Gibbo, the supporters will still be there and raise the club up again, when it is needed.
Tony Black
The sad part is the shirt probably isnt available in Korea, or even worse, it will be made available once he has left.
av
thought i would pose a question,we introduced the white band across the chest in 1974. Have we ever been relagated whilst wearing that style? I have been a fan since 1959,and i think the record since 74, is more successful than prior to then.
Said I'd return when something changed.
Well, clearly, something has changed.
A great win and a great performance. Thanks to all for remembering how it is done, for regaining your pride and for making us proud again.
Maybe we won't be last on MOTD this evening.
Now let's make sure that this wasn't a one off but in the meantime - enjoy!
Excellent win fellas. That's the kind of commitment we need. Hopefully this can kick-start our season. Great to see Tuncay scoring...he must be close to being our top scorer now :)
Tony Black, we all know that Yak has talent, but he was not getting the job done for us, and I think we were right to sell him. Credit to David Moyes for whipping him into shape.
Great win, great performance and it wasn't because Arsenal didn't play well, it was because Boro didn't allow Arsenal to play.
Can we have the same effort, energy, passion and commitment every game please? If we do there will be no complaints win, lose or draw.
Derek Diablo just wondered what it feels like to have a massive favour handed to your club from a 'national joke'?? Get back on your cockney United boards in the paradise that is Darlington!
As for the Boro well the sis-in-law picked a great day for my nephew's christening! Needless to say I am now officially a 'jinx', am banned from the Riverside and will have my season ticket removed for the good of the club!!
TeesBettingScene..
We will win or lose the league by our own efforts , not because some no mark little rag tag outfit fluked a win against a knackered and injury ravaged Arsenal side.
Your imaginary sense of self importance is overwhelmingly funny.
It was great to see the Boro playing without fear. As most contributors to this board realise we have some great footballers at the Boro (our bench with Johnson and Arca on it was possibly better than Arsenals).
The only worry for me was the substitution of Woodgate. Why on earth did Southgate take him off? He was playing supremely well, he was emerging from a bad run of form and Southgate decides to replace him with someone who has yet to play in the premiership this year.
Gareth was lucky that Tuncay scored when he did - I wouldn't have been as comfortable at 1-0 with Huth on the pitch. It was a naive decision.
But what a great day.
I understand the TV folks did the obligatory shot of the 'dark satanic mills'. We have the laziest journalists in the world in this country (Anthony excepted) they can't be bothered to analyse football properly.
Instead of showing a shot of a Blast Furnace they should be acknowledging the wholehearted honest and skilfull performance of Manny Pogatetz, they should supporting the selection of Gary O'Neil for England.
What a beautiful and graceful mover Gary is. People who say he has great engine miss the point, he glides, he's skilfull, he's confident, he's clever and he's tough. He moves like a continental or South American footballer.
PS I have been singing the praises of O'Neil for years this is not a partisan view. It's great to have him at the Boro. Believe me we have a great midfield line up when Downing Arca and ONeill take the field.
Darlo Diablo -
Why then are you so interested in our no mark little rag tag outfit? Is it because deep down you really are a Boro fan?
I am also waiting for Fergie to come out and condem Ronaldho for his blatant dive when winning a penalty on Saturday. He was quick enough to whine when he got booked on Monday.
But I don't suppose he will, his blinkered and biased views are almost as sad as yours.
Hey that "Darling Derek from Darlo" is a good laugh isn't he? I understand he comes from the 'poshest part of Darlington'. That must be a Chubby Brown gag !
Derek or may I call you Darling ? you really do have the must uplifting effect on me. I feel so good about myself whenever you tap out some inane message.
It's like having a massage or dare I say it one those colonic irrigations (I have one every time Schwarzer comes out for a cross)
Keep it up 'petal'. I know it's a bit of a cliche but you really ought to get out more. Have you considered going to a football match ? Rather than wait for when your yearly 'shopping trip' to Thailand coincides with a Man Utd tour why don't you pop along to a game.
I recommend starting with local football, in the park, gradually gravitate to semi profession Conference level, then up a level to Darlo (God Bless Em) and before you know it you will be able to step out into the real world wearing your Man Utd rattle, scarf and balaclava.
Amazing comment from GS, that he decided on how to beat Arsenal after watching them against the skunks. If he had read this board he could have saved himself a journey.
Boro need the same effort, energy, passion and commitment in every game. When we get this then relegation will become a distant memory.
Just read that Spurs are going to make a £7m bid for Adam Johnson in January.
I don't think that Boro should sell, however with the alledged shortage of cash and the need for a striker, Boro may do just that if the rumour is true.
gate go and watch QPR.
then buy AKOS BUZSAKY
A REAL BARGAIN A TOP PLAYER.
WILL GET GOALS.
"AKOS BUZSAKY"
We are only interested in Premiership quality footballers mate, not high scoring Scrabble words.
"AKOS BUZSAKY" NICK
was a good buy for jose at porto
look a utube too see him
only on lone at QPR.