Spurs Grind Stops The Rot

dave wrote...

What got me was settling for a point against a team near the bottom with 15 minutes to go. The two strikers that finished the game are not good enough. Should have kept christie, graham and massimo if that is the quality we are down to.

A win against Spurs was imnportant but now with Bolton and villa coming up we need 2 wins. We have to start beating the teams around us at some point. Otherwise we are down to some tough away games to get results like sunderland,newcastle, manutd,arsenal,liverpool,chelsea

Posted by: dave  | November 5, 2007 10:49 AM

tonyblack wrote...

I think it was a really great point which does in fact stop the rot and it gives a tiny platform to build upon.

At this moment in time how we get the points doesn't bother me as we are in way too much of a bad situation. I just want to see people fighting for that shirt and to fight to save their manager and to ensure that the club moves away from the very real relegation dog fight that will follow if we slip up in the next few games.

The next game IS a MUST WIN game for me. I said before that I would very happily take 4 points from 6. 1 point is in the bag and now we need to go out and win the rest by any and every way possible.

We got what I think we could have from the spurs game, although they didn't perform how I personally expected them too.

So let's go into the next with the belief that we can win and that the season starts here and now for us. A win here and things would settle down a bit and give us a tiny bit of breathing space.

On the other hand a loss here with other results going against us would spell real trouble for us with the following game probably being make or break for GS.

If we should lose then next two and other results go against us then I think GS is finished as with all the backing in the world from the big chief, the fans will force him out.

I want GS and Coops out but not at all costs. I don't want them to go if it means by doing so the next team are unable to stop relegation.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | November 5, 2007 11:56 AM

Matty J wrote...

Steve Gibson has done wonders for the Boro, but can anyone tell me why it is such a sin to criticize him?

Although I was'nt for GS for manager, I don't think he is to blame for our current position. I think SG has alot to answer for. For a few years now we have been going backwards, and all we tend to here from Gibbo these days is lies "spectacular signings" "world class manager" and his paranoia " either you are with us or against us".

As a fan I am totally fed up with the club, not once since I started supporting Boro have I felt like this. Steve Gibson is an arrogant man with to big an ego, an needs to start listening soon before all his great work crumbles

Posted by: Matty J  | November 5, 2007 12:05 PM

Cirencester Smoggie wrote...

Look at how many sides with a new manager win their first game out? Taking this into account, plus the recent results, it is a step in the right direction. Bolton are there for the taking, plus playing Bayern Munich in mid week so that's where the focus should be.

Posted by: Cirencester Smoggie  | November 5, 2007 12:06 PM

dicky wrote...

please lets just wake up an smell the coffee! we are simply not good enough at the moment. we should be beating team around the bottom. if we dont beat Bolton we should just get ready for the Championship. Boro vs Hartlepool, i am so looking forward to that fixture!

we need a new goalie! swarz is costing us more points than he is saving! we have a good team on paper BUT no strength in depth! lets go out and buy a new goalie and striker ASAP!

Posted by: dicky  | November 5, 2007 12:07 PM

JK wrote...

it was a good point in the long run but spurs had even less confidence than us so could have been beaten if we had a decent strike force.

theres always a lot of talk about whether booing is right or not, i think its ok for the same riggot said but saturday was over the top.

yes schwarzer doesnt look interested, yes riggot is too slow and our strikers are completely pants but a points a point when we are that far down the table!

Posted by: JK  | November 5, 2007 12:18 PM

Bigmets....Boro forever!! wrote...

1 point against a team in the bottom 3..."a good platform to build on"..cheers Gate that sums up everything that has gone wrong since 2004. Far too many players know that even if they have a bad day (year DGL) they will still get picked for every match because of Boros thin squad!!

The Gate needs to come out and slate a few players (they know who they are) and say even if they carn't be dropped now they can still be shipped out in Jan if they dont buck up!!

One piece of good news ive just been told that Chris Hutchins has been sacked by Wigan....get in!! maybe we could get him ha!

ps some Watford fan has just told me that Jinky Showboats 2 much...Dam that showboating winger!!

Posted by: Bigmets....Boro forever!!  | November 5, 2007 12:49 PM

John Powls wrote...

Cirencester Smoggie

Bolton there for the taking? Would that that were true.

Don't know if you saw their game at West Ham. Got a draw and probably did enough to win because they domintaed the game after West Ham scored.

How did we do, there? Oh, yes, I remember.....

I think they will have a dead cat bounce with Megson in charge when he tries to do his own thing.

But he has pulled them round in the short term by simply reverting to Allardyce's plan A which the players were familiar and happy with.

We haven't got a good record at their place and they are - if little else - very physically robust and well organised. Neither of those attributes are things that you can level against us.

I'd like to see a win - but at present, I don't.

Neither do I see anything better against Villa at home. We may have Pogo and Mido back but it will be their first game and Villa are like a more sophisticated Bolton.

Come to think of it, the same could be said of Reading in the game after that.

I think that unless something changes the outlook is pretty bleak.

Posted by: John Powls  | November 5, 2007 1:20 PM

dave morrison wrote...

can any 1 please tell me what they are expecting. im sick of hearing this booooing and slating the team.

the atmosphere in the stadium is rubbish and how would you feel going out to that atmosphere week in week out. yes we pay our money but come on get behind these boys and make the riverside a place where away teams and away fans dont want to come to.

take portsmouth for example. there fans are right behind there team and een when they where down there still turned up and cheered on there team. come on get behind the boys and the club aswell must do something about the seating arrangements to help with crowd noise.

Posted by: dave morrison  | November 5, 2007 1:32 PM

Jack Charlton wrote...

I know the team is struggling and it's annoying and upsetting for me and every supporter.

But booing the team and the general negativity towards the players is never going to help matters. I never boo or shout negative comments, as i know that it will only make matter worse.

For starters it's not going to motivate anybody to go out onto the pitch and any prospective new signings will be scared off at the thought of being booed every game.

I reckon the best thing would be to give the team 100% positive support, at least for a couple of games and see how they respond. I'm sure the team would respond a hell of a lot better to being constantly cheered and sung at than being booed.

I remember standing in the Holgate and never stopping singing from the start to the end(Red Army, red army, )

I know that if i was out on the pitch playing and all I could here was a stadium full of Boro fans singing and clapping i'd never stop running.

So all i ask if for the fans to give the team 100% support for at least a couple of games. Negativity only breeds negativity.

Posted by: Jack Charlton  | November 5, 2007 1:36 PM

steveie g wrote...

Lee Cattermole has just lost all respect after the stupid "stay at home comments"

We pay his wages through our season ticket subscriptions. and whilst I never boo a player any fan does have the right to express his opinion if they think the player or team is not good enough.

Enough fans are staying away at present without asking those that do turn up to watch this very poor team play being asked to stay away rather than voice a considered opinion.

Catermole should appologise to every fan he has insulted, those same fans that pay his grossly inflated wages.

Posted by: steveie g  | November 5, 2007 1:46 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

The Booing on Saturday was a watershed for the current style of management at the Boro and I don't just mean Gate and Coops!

The recent past (since Eindhoven) has been frustrating to say the least with manager appointments, badges, signings, sponsorship, radio, kit (no white band and diarrhoea coloured away shorts) debacles allied to the "for us or against us" mentality.

Those of us who were there (and there are several thousand who have taken a leaf out of Lee Cattermole's ill timed emotional but forgiveable passionate directive and stayed away!) have endured all the above and supported (sometimes in silence believe it or not!) through thin and thinner all season had had enough.

It was not a tiny minority as suggested in some reports but a huge voiciferous many (TV coverage supports this emphatically) who decided enough was enough.

There were some Boro players who simply looked as though they were indifferent to the game on Saturday and less than interested in trying to secure the 3 points. At the same time there were displays from Wheater and O'Neil that showed all the heart and battling qualities the fans wanted to see and more importantly have a right to expect.

I don't agree with Booing individuals but the constant carping about the club from the Aussie shot stopper combined with what appears to be a well below par season was an accident waiting to happen.

How the fans have been patient for so long is something they would be complimented on in other areas of Industry.

LDG should never have been selected in the first place and his only possible way back is a loan spell for him to prove to himself first of all and then to Boro that he can do it. The fact he was even put on the bench showed that the club have no idea how the fans are thinking and his very inclusion was taken as a defiant two fingered salute to the Boro faithful from "The Management".

Jinky's rave reviews on loan at Watford and Stewie's seemingly listless display compounded the fans fury even more when we looked at the state of the Bench.

The substitution of Rocky with the Boat was seen as negative and Schwarzer's blatant time wasting infuriated the by now extremely frustrated and exasperated fans.

When all the fans have left is to Boo and jeer then it is a very sad time indeed but then again when you have been drifting for month after month after month there is very little option left except to do what thousands are already doing and stay away.

If crowds start dropping below 20,000 which they will do shortly then it doesn't really matter if you are "for us or against us" because the writing at that juncture will be well and truly on the wall.

The Booing was not directed solely at the players on the pitch but the current establishment as a whole. The fact that comments from the club seem to have missed this point is alarming. It serves as more evidence that they are really out of touch.

I can understand the players feeling aggrieved at what they percieved as a point won rather than two dropped but the frustration during and at the end of the game was much bigger than the 90 minutes on Saturday.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | November 5, 2007 1:57 PM

deka wrote...

I wont criticise players by naming them but a few on saturday did not do themselves any favours with their performances(or lack of them).

I really think southgate settled for a point in the last 15 minutes although the subs who came on were all anonymous.

Is amazing how far we have fallen. We have talented players but no one who can bring the best out of them. We will be better with arca and poggi back but my worry is who will he leave out? I just hope its not wheater and catts.

If we dont get anything at bolton and dont beat villa radical changes must be made. We need to build on the point we gained off spurs, mind you 2 points from 21 is an absolute disgrace.

Posted by: deka  | November 5, 2007 2:13 PM

Lewis Thompson wrote...

Yeah saturday was a great point wasnt it!

No it wasnt, it was a tepid performance and most of the prem teams would have turned us over, Spurs probably should.

I cant count the positives on one hand, wait make that two fingers. Lee Cattermole and Gary O'Neil, The rest of the players were shocking. Tuncay is not going to make it and is nearly as bad as Dong Gook, Downing was a disgrace, if he plays that bad but puts effort in fair enough, but his effort on Saturday was minimal.

One more thing for the people defending Downing saying the Booing made him play worse. He didnt get booed versus Everton, Man City, Chelsea, and Man United but he was still pathetic. The Booing is to tell him he is done at this club. I for one do NOT want to see him at this club in january, Id rather have Mendieta left wing.

Posted by: Lewis Thompson  | November 5, 2007 2:54 PM

Werdermouth wrote...

I’m not sure what to make of the performance against spurs – quite frankly I expected (predicted?) a lot better especially given how bad Spurs’ defence is – Though we should thank Ramos for putting out his B attack.

I think the problem is that the style of play Southgate wants to play – i.e. a quick interchange of passing at speed – is only possible if the players are confident and not under pressure.

Therefore, since we’re languishing at the bottom without a win for over 2 months, I just think we need to be more realistic until we’ve got a few wins under our belts.

Where do those wins come from? I agree totally with John Powls – Bolton are definitely not there for the taking, they looked back to their own selves and were also without Anelka.

Also, now that Woody has joined the hamstrung club, I’m starting to think that Tony Black has a point about the conditioning programmes they undertake.

Finally, Southgate better start feeling under pressure now that Wigan have also sacked their manager today – it could be a dash to re-sign Paul Jewell before Gibbo sees the light.

Posted by: Werdermouth  | November 5, 2007 2:56 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Booing the players isnt right but it is easy for me to take the moral high ground because I see half a dozen home games a year plus some away games. If I had a season ticket and been watching the drift that has taken place over nearly three years I might have a different view.

The difficulty is what do the fans do? At last years Citeh game I did what I have never done and left 20 minutes early because I was livid at taking out most of my Saturday to drive up and watch players not remotely interested in the match.

I am concerned that we are pinning our hopes basically on Mido. We talk about Woodie, Arca and Pogo coming back in but they wont make much impression at the business end of the pitch. The paucity of our play in their box was alarming when you consider how poor they were defensively.

It is wins that are needed to move up the table because clubs are gradually pulling away from us one at a time.

Back to booing, I have no solution to how fans show they are fed up. We have tried complaing about kit, prices, PR etc to no avail. People have voted with their feet and wallets to be told with us or against us. Anyone who criticises is censored.

The squad is clearly inadequate up front, the performance in the last 15 mins was pitiful, it wasnt that they were nervous but with the best will in the world Boat for Rocky and Hutchinson/Lee for Tuncay/Aliadiere was hardly inspiring.

I have no idea what to do to get the fans back onside other than win matches, sadly it is a mess of the clubs making.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | November 5, 2007 3:42 PM

Sarah2671 wrote...

I don't tend to boo the players but as far as I am concerned I have every right to boo the team if I feel it is appropriate.

I pay good money for my season ticket - which gives me the right to cheer, shout or boo the team. I also have the right to leave the ground early if I so wish. There is nothing in writing when you buy your season ticket to say that you are not allowed to have an opinion.

Supporters expressing their opinions has been part of football for many years and long may it continue. How else do the players know that we are not happy with their performances ?

I do agree with Lee Cattermole in that some of the team are trying to get themselves out of this mess. On Saturday you couldn't fault players like Gary O'Neill, Luke Young, Fabio Rochenback and Lee Cattermole for their effort.

We do though have certain big name players who are only interested when things are going well. I don't want to crticise individual players but some of the bigger names need to take a hard look at themselves.

If our outfield (so called attacking players) are not interested and not willing to keep up with the play then it's time they were put on the bench. God helps us if we get into a relegation battle when they can't give their all now. These players must know who they after the response they got from the West Stand on Saturday.

The problems run a lot deeper though than whether the players are giving enough effort.

The areas of concern for me personally are:

Our defensive frailities - Southgate and Cooper are both defenders who have played at a decent level and if they do not have the knowledge to sort out these problems how are they going to address the midfield and striker issues.

Our lack of strike force - the strikers that we currently have are too lightweight. Allidiare is a breathe of fresh air with his speed and but he is not going to get us enough goals per season to keep us safe. He needs a target man up front. We are going to get Mido back fit and then lose him for the African Nations Cup.

Boro committed suicide when they let Viduka and Yakubu go - the Yak had to go but they have not bought in the strikers to replace these two.

Our lack of imagination - This is my main area of concern. We don't seem to have any ideas when things aren't going to plan. Southgate looks out of his depth on the touchline clapping his hands. Other managers are constantly shouting at their team and giving them instructions where Southgate just seems to be asking them to keep going.

We don't even do the basics - when defending corners and free kicks other teams they have two or three players on the half way line, why don't we keep Allidiare on the half way line. If we had a break he could crucify most teams with his turn of speed and it also means that the other team needs to bring some players out of the area. Surely these are tatics that are done on the training ground.

OK it was a good result to get a point but there was another two points there to be taken - the Spurs defence is about as stable as the Titanic !!!

Lets judge the improvement after the Bolton game.

Posted by: Sarah2671  | November 5, 2007 3:52 PM

mark_76 wrote...

I cant understand the fans who think players actually go out on the pitch and dont want to perform.

They're professional sportsmen who have made it in a very cut throat business. I dont know about the rest of you but at work if somebody was on my sholder constantly saying that Im rubbish booing me giving me no support I might lose a little bit of confidence in myself scared of going for it in case I make a mistake again knowing I will get a slating. Just a thought.

I've supported the Boro nearly 22 years in fact and I remember days especially in the Holgate/south Terrace when the fans made so much noise as to be intimidating to other sides. The feeling I always had if the lads got stuck in and tried we would be behind them.

Nowadays I sit and listen to fat ignorant fans (who couldnt even walk the length of the pitch without getting out of breath) slating players from min 1 to the final whistle for not putting enough effort in and coming up with tactical rubbish that just doesnt make sense.

Dont get me wrong i get frustrated as anyone I want to win. But never as frustrated as with the boo boys who bring nothing to the team or the atmosphere of the match.

To be honest thats why I keep going hoping that I can enjoy that buzz as 11 year old and the noise EOIing, singing, being proud of where we come from and it being our team that giving its all win lose or draw have the defiance to say to other teams we dont care we are who we are and we shall be.

Phew rant over sorry but after years of listening to idiots who have no concept of physical exercise and have never kicked a ball in anger in 30 years I have finally broke. We will make it

Posted by: mark_76  | November 5, 2007 4:20 PM

deka wrote...

Bolton will definitely pose a far greater threat than they would have done two or three weeks ago. they really looked up for the game against west ham and could have nicked the win but for hitting the woodwork 3 times.

if we go there and dont battle we will come away empty handed. I would bring boateng in and leave downing on the bench as he doesnt look up for the fight. Mark my words they will put us to the test physically.

After the bolton game we will be one third of the way through the season. what started as a so called top six attempt has crumbled to a survival nightmare.

Whos to blame? Not the fans. We dont sell or buy or pick the team,and we have a right to whinge and moan,it is our club after all. We dont want a lot, a team where all the players give their all is a start,oh,and a manager who can get that would help too. Bruce rioch would not have stood for what is happening now..we need a strong leader..im afraid gareth is being found wanting.

Posted by: deka  | November 5, 2007 6:21 PM

geoff wrote...

why is it that people who are not firing on all cylender's dont go into the reserves? Lee might prosper there and give him some confidence because he cant keep going the way he is.

The best way to get Downing playing again is bring back Johnson and give him a run let Downing warm the bench for a while, mind you he might need a rest after all the games he has played.

I think SG was right people lay there life on the line for nothing of what they earn in a week. Come on earn the right to wear the shirt.

Posted by: geoff  | November 5, 2007 8:21 PM

Ian wrote...

I think Gareth and current set up has to go and go now. I think the dressing room have lost faith in him.

Stevie Gibson made a big mistake installing him as manager and whilst his principles are admirable and it is his club, the fans are becoming tired of mediocrity.

I and many others think very highly of Gareth but he's not the man for us at the moment and we will go down. We have lost 12 of the last 20 premier league game and lost the only reasons (Yak and Viduka) why we finished were we did last season ( not very high BTW).

I have switched off and am starting to lose my fervent passion for supporting the Boro. Bring someone in Stevie Gibson before it becomes too late.

Posted by: Ian  | November 5, 2007 8:57 PM