Boro Show Teesside Steel
EMANUEL Pogatetz came on as a substitute just before the half hour of the goalless draw at Bolton and almost immediately crunched into the ribs of Danny Guthrie as they chased a ball running out of play then barely a minute later Boro's Terminator wiped out his old sparring partner Kevin Davies with a sliding tackle and left the striker in a heap.
The ref called the Alpine hardman over - eventually - and sensibly dished out a stern lecture accompanied by the international sign language palm down gesture for 'calm down'. Two minutes later Pogatetz touched the ball for the first time.
It was a perfect game for the imposing Austrian to return to action ahead of schedule to a no-quarters-asked encounter in which battling Boro matched the robust challenge of possibly the most physical and direct side in the league. It wasn't one for the purists but it was a game in which Boro stood up to be counted in the kind of scrap in which they are usually muscled out.
A point away from home is always a good one, even when it could be argued that cautious Bolton were there for the taking. The first clean sheet on the road all season was a handy bonus too for a side that has looked all too porous in recent weeks. But the real plus from the day was the determined, steely show by the entire team in the face of a resurgent Bolton side that looked far from fired from their midweek UEFA Cup exertions in Munich and were on a high of sorts having been inspired by 'the Megson effect'.
Boro were under the cosh for long spells but dug in and battled and rode their luck at times and while it wasn't always silky or cultured it was effective. David Wheater was immense in the opening spell, a one man wall that blocked and tackled and barged Bolton men aside, closing down crosses, hooking away dangerous balls into the box and picking up a ridiculous yellow card for what was the best tackle in the game.
Lee Cattermole ran his bollocks off for a second successive game, closing down all over the middle third, flying into tackles, pushing, pulling and getting into people's faces in uncompromising fashion... George Boateng was back to his best, especially in the second half as crunched into Bolton, unsettling their midfield and breaking up any attempt at a passing game and also setting up arguably Boro's best chance of the game with a delightful slotted pass into the box... Chris Riggott put some recent wobbles behind him to make some vital interceptions and headers (although a misplaced one gifted Davies a glorious chance just before the break)... boo-boy Stewy Downing put a difficult week of barracking and transfer whispers behind him to work hard, tackle back and show his commitment in exactly the kind of game his critics say he usually disappears in. He even resisted the chance to pull a Cruyff turn in the box and showed he had learned his lesson with an agricultural clearance.
Even much maligned Mark Schwarzer looked solid. It would be easy to say he was never really tested - Speeds free-kick curled into the side netting, Davies blazed over and a few free-kicks fired straight him aside he never had a save to make as such - but when he was needed he was there. He came out to collect balls, barging people out of the way, he came racing off his line to put in a sliding tackle on the edge of the box after a underhit Poggi backpass almost played McCann in, then at the death he reacted well to save a close range Campo header.
It was chaos at times, not least in a frantic final backs-against-the-wall ten minutes when at times it was Keystone Cops defending and bodies got in each others' way, but the industry and commitment never dropped throughout. And this in the kind of game where Boro in the past have proved fragile... think back to last year's trips to Watford, Manchester City and Sheffield United when they wilted in the face of no-frills route one assault.
That is something to build on. Boro have not turned the corner, indeed, the indicator is not even on yet - but they have showed that they know which direction they must take. To get out of the hole we have found ourselves there will be a need for naked workrate and physicality as much as finesse over the next few week. Boro must stop being a soft touch if they are to claw themselves away from the dangerzone and push on.
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Anthony Vickers
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its about time we got physical and less of the fancy passing with more grafters.
Whats your thoughts on woodgate? Since he has been injured the defence has looked more solid. Shuld he wak straight back in or stay on the bench and wait his chance?
It's times like this which test southgate bottle and how tough he can be.
Hi AV, yes it’s difficult to criticise the team after the last 2 games – even if many of us were demanding (expecting? hoping for?) a minimum of 4 points and preferably 6 from these games.
They’ve now fought back against Spurs and ground out a result against Bolton – everybody should now be clear that the rest of the season is only about survival.
Forget the ‘good footballing principles’ mantra – it’s now been replaced by good old pragmatism – it’s not going to be pretty and the fans may be wondering if it’s a return to McClarenism.
So Fans turning up for the next game should also steel themselves for another battle and hope that the football on offer leads to a few more points - though be prepared as this as how the Guardian saw the Bolton game:
“This was desperate stuff, a catalogue of thumping clearances, wild tackles, misplaced passes, over-hit long balls, dives and faked injuries. In short it was rubbish in which the odd moments of skill and control winked like pearls on a cow pat before being buried by another steaming pile.�
The only hope is that if Boro manage to pick up 9 points before Christmas we may be given the present of seeing a return to the promising football shown against Birmingham – otherwise it’s going to be a long cold winter.
Well the booing against Spurs seems to have stirred the team into life then.
Boateng looked better after being rested. Wheater is our in form central deffender at the mo and should play ahead of Woodgate who has not been 100% after being rushed back too soon.
Southgate rested Rochembach which was good as getting him injured as well as Arca would be difficult to take.
Although Downing did well I still think he needs a rest and I'm sure once the lad Johnson returns that will happen.
Good to see Pogo back and hopefully we will not get walked over as much anymore.
I dont know how fit Huth is but I would like to see him next to Wheater. They are both Goliaths and it might be a great partnership.
More proof that we need a Viduka replacement. Nugent is not getting too many games at Pompy? Him and another striker Jan the 1st?
Saw it on MOTD2 and glad we didn't lose.
How nice of Alan Shearer to decline to talk about the boro game when asked. The golf playing Neanderthal [unfair on neanderthals as they were technically toolmakers and brave hunters] forgot that he was being payed to give an overview of the game from a professional view point!
Nothing to say on Joey Barton's nearly crippling challenge on Dickson Etuhu then either Mr.Shearer? BBC are paying money for old rope!!!!!
Up the Boro
Well it seems that MOTD didn't show the full story. Perhaps it's because they threw us in at the end and didn't show all that much.
People I've spoken to who went to the game and they also seem to reflect what's been said here with regards the steel and the battling which is nice to see given the position we're in.
Whether this will be enough I'm not sure as we will need to play our way out of trouble at some point. That's why I would at least like to see Mendietta on the bench. If nothing else the fact that he'll be in the shop window may well bring out the best in him and create a bit of a spark and creativity that we could do with.
So hopefully this attitude will continue into the next few games especially. Birmingham and Derby MUST be 6 points from 6.
Great to see GB slowly coming back to being his old self and really goog to see Pogy back in there as he's another one who wears his heart on his sleeve regardless of any situation. Perhaps his return will rub off onto a few others who may have lost a bit of heart recently.
I thought Downing did OK and wouldn't take him off and rest him at all. I think we need him way too much at the moment and if he just gets in one or two crosses that lead to a goal then that will do for me.
Bit by bit I think he'll get back to his old self. He is a good player and that's what we really need right now along with the battlers like GB and Pogy e.t.c.
The big plus is that the teams around us are all in the same position and that a gap hasn't yet emerged. So if we can get 6 points from Birmingham and Derby it will do wonders for our league position.
Whoever GS opts to buy in January in just can't be a risk. He must go for a tried and tested striker, even if it means getting in someone who's career is reaching it's climax and just coming in and doing the job for this season, or maybe this season and by being on the bench next season.
I'd much rather have someone who's been around for a while and knows the Premiership inside and out provided they are fully fit, if one striker is all we can afford.
Nugent will no doubt come good at some point but I don't think that we can wait around for people to adapt and bed in. I'd even bring back Jimmy until the end of the season as at least you know that he'll bring in x amount of goals.
If we had enough money for both these types of players it would be even better as a Jimmy Floyd type could sit on the bench and come on for the last 20 - 25 minutes, Maccarone style, and get a few extra goals that might just be the difference between staying up and going down.
He may not run much but there's no denying that he's a tried and tested goalscorer with heart for scoring goals.
Just a thought.
TB
Yep, a 'good' point. Good to get a clean sheet and for the team to show grit and dtermination. If they show the same attitude at home to Villa then the crowd will respond positively and confidence will grow and we might produce some good football and score a couple.
Having Poggi back is great for his shear commitment and dtermination alone.
Draws against Spurs and Bolton have been good results given what came previously, 3 points against Villa would be a big step in terms of relieving the pressure a little.
All the talk about attacking or defensive football is missing the point. You play in a way that suits your players, you have to be positive and that applies to defence as well as attack.
Whether attacking or defending you need movement to give options for the man with the ball. If you are on the flank you press forward to support the striker and track back to help the defence. Central midfield shields the defence and provides the platform to go forward.
If you dont have big target men it is pointless launching long balls to hold the ball up, you have to use movement and pace to create passing opportunities, to look after the ball.
The simple fact is we have been playing badly, choosing wrong options, had poor ball retention and that is nothing to do with being pretty and over attacking.
Big Jacks team was labelled defensive, he played with Murdoch, Sounness and Armstrong in midfield; Hickton, Mills and Foggon up front. Doesnt look defensive to me, what they did was work hard whether they were in possession or not. Because they didnt give in and roll over too often they were labelled defensive.
We did that yesterday and got a battling point, whether that is enough remains to be seen with Villa at home, Reading away, Arsenal at home. But we kept out of the bottom three.
yep a good battling point against an awful physical team,i really do hope bolton finish in the bottom 3.
the only thing needed now is a pair of goalscoring strikers, because i dont think the current strike force will muster more than 10 goals between them.
nice to see pogi back in typical no nonsense action, how we've missed his aggression.when arca returns we will have a good base to build on,but once again
WE MUST BRING IN 2 PROVEN STRIKERS.
I thought I saw Steve Round on the Barcodes bench at the weekend. Dismissed it as wishful thinking but now I'm told it's true. Surely it can't be unconnected with their recent poor form.
It also seems that Paul Barron is going the same route. If he is the goalkeeping coach he is supposed to be it doesn't show through in what Skippy and Brad Jones have shown us this season.
Now, who else can we export? Taxi for Crosby?
Seriously, can this be the start of a proper review of our coaching and fitness staff and not just saying that Stephen Pears - good chap that he is - steps into the role because it's 'local jobs for local people'.
Choose your source of that phrase, League of Gentlemen, Gordon Brown or Gibbo.
John Powls, whats connected to our poor form then?
Deka
I totally agree we need two proven strikers but there are one or two problems to resolve.
Firstly we need them now, seven games before the window opens and we need points on the board.
Secondly, if we cant get them now then we need them on board for 1st Jan, 31st will be too late because we still have to bed them in. Mido will be away for most of Jan and possibly to mid February, it looks like a Veruka job by getting him fit in time to play for Egypt.
Thirdly, thats what everybody else wants and most clubs are not going to let them go. You are likely to get players who cant get a game elsewhere, normally they are not getting a game because they are not scoring goals. Thats why we got Mido and Aliadiere, fifth choice at their clubs.
Fourthly, strikers bought in January windows dont always succeed. Ricketts, Christie and Dong Goal Less spring to mind (though springing is not the right phrase for Ricketts).
If we take Gibbo et al at face value, in light of Lambies dislike of the Jan Window, includiing Midos absence and the likelihood it will be mid Feb before we have anyone bedded in that is 26 matches gone. I stand by by my view it is likely we will rise or fall based on our current squad and coaching set up.
I agree with Ian Gill entirely, the trick is to play with a positive attitude.
If we can beat Villa, draw with Reading then confidence may be good enough to get a result when Arsenal visit. If we don't beat either Villa or Reading then when Arsenal turn up we'll be cannon fodder......
I can't fault the lads for effort, and at times a backs to the wall performance, and it could have been daylight robbery (from Bolton's point of view) if Aliadiere had been composed enough to pass into O'Neill when he broke away.
But surely we cannot honestly think that they can and will do this every week.
Let's face it, Bolton are physical and will upset better teams than us this season, but they were also short of their two main strike threats Anelka and Spit the Dog.
We still lack real talent up front which to me means we won't score enough goals, and with our only midfield spark missing until December at the earliest we have a lot of hard work to do. Is it really too late for Mendi to do a Bobby Murdoch and sit in the middle to bring at least some creativity back?
If it means us being more Macanista over the next two months then so be it. As Ian was saying (I think), we need to play to the strengths of the players we have available, and that certainly does not support an all out attacking mandate.
alf
I quote from a previous posting of mine:-
It seems we lost out on having a 'top drawer' German manager – Hitzfeld is the story - because he committed the cardinal sin of wanting to bring his coaching team with him and Gibbo didn't want us to become ‘Teesside-on-Rhine’ - that must make Huth feel right at home.
It is also the mentality that hobbled the early part of Gate’s reign with The Ex’s coaching cast offs who are now showing their mettle with Eng-er-lund (and now Newcastle) and still have him hobbled with the other remnants plus a new coach as inexperienced as Gate is and an assistant whose contribution seems to amount to very little that’s apparent.
Quote ends.
If you add to that (with a couple of honourable exceptions) the very inadequate buys - both in number and quality that we made in the Summer I think you have the answer to your question.
Message for John Powls.
"I have steeled myself and bought today's Mail On Sunday because there is supposed to be some featured stuff about Boro – a novelty in itself."
Is this article available online anywhere? I feel the need to get depressed.
Cheers.
Neil
I think I was saying that the talk of all out attacking or defence was beside the point. Whatever way you play has to be whole hearted and committed.
We dont have to play like headless chickens and we dont have the players to sit back and defend for 90 minutes for the same reasons - the lack of strikers to either score one more than the opposition or to nick a goal. All we can do is work hard and make sure we dont waste possession.
Billy
Just checked the site but they don't appear to have updated it with the stuff from yesterday's MoS yet.
Link is http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/columnists
Neil (Baku) - The difference between Bobby Murdoch and Mendieta is that Murdoch had Graham Souness playing next to him. For Mendieta to be succesful now we would need Steven Gerrard in the Jan transfer window...
If we are talking of a Mendie return then we are even more desperate than I suspected.
One of the problems is that GS has adopted an attacking philosophy, which is great, but as others have posted he hasn't bought the players to execute it. Not much point in going all out attack if there is no one to score!
Any news on one of our egyptians is missing? Heard a rumour that Mido was awol.
**AV writes: I thought he had been given permission to go home while injured?
When playing the top teams, Woody is invaluable. He and Pog are are the best combinarion.
i am sick of people attacking mendieta!!! read this!!! when he is in centre midfield, boro are a different side. just check out the games he has played in that position. WE ALSO NEED STRIKERS. ADRIANO, ALVES, JIMMY FLOYD????
AV
Phew that is a relief, luckily there are not many cases of overseas players going home to recover from injuries and staying away. Nor do stories suddenly appear under their names when they are shamelessly misquoted.
One of the benefits of returning home is that sitting in a plane for five hours is as good as receiving treatment from professional physios, well ours anyway. The trip back wont here wont harm either, whenever it is!
Still it is an international break, fine as long as it doesnt last until February
**AV writes: Lucky too that there are not muck raking tabloids ready to indulge in such baseless tittle-tattle!
The awful truth about the Bolton game was that the 1 minute we got on MOTD was actually the sum total of the entertainment, unless you're a masochist who likes watching endless head tennis, crunching physical battles and guileless duffers trying to out-muscle each other
Two awful sides woefully lacking in confidence. For me GS missed a trick - OK we had to battle Bolton and beat them at their own game, but we had no-one who could create anything.
If we'd just taken the game to them a bit more, like we did at ManU, then surely we would have made more chances than the 2 we did create?
The real worry for me was Tuncay - he looked short of confidence and short of power. Like Aliadiere, and LDG, he is alarmingly light-weight - or maybe that was because it was brutal Bolton?
I've had better Sunday afternoons, but there were some real positives:-
1) a hard-earned point with absolutely everyone putting in a full shift and getting back behind the ball at every opportunity.
2) The return of Mad Dog - how we have missed his steel and determination!
3) Some fantastic new chants from Boro fans - a belter about Zenden kicking the ball twice, a new one about Parmo Army (like the England cricket song) and even a neat song about Jeremie Aliadiere. Listen out for these in weeks to come. Add to this a rousing chorus of "You're indestructible!" Just like old times.
4) The best moment of the lot, when the entire West stand went up cheering because they thought Speed's shot had gone in. It was a full minute before they realised it had missed! How we laughed!
John Sully
Over the last couple of seasons when I have seen Mendi in centre mid and you are right we are a totally different side!
His best matches for us have been in a midfield five where his lack of physical presence and pace are less of an issue. This is no crticism of him because he has showed wonderful vision but I think his days are passed. If he proves me wrong that would be great but he would be overun by prem midfielders.
now all the boro fans want to see the team scrapping toe to toe with the likes of bolton and are crying out for a big man up front as the way forward. now they want work rate, pace and bottle.
maybe not getting big sam was gibbos big mistake. it sounds like we would have been happy as pigs in muck watching our own version of bolton.
Nigel,
In terms of my comments on Mendi, it may have come across as a little tongue in cheek, but I was serious.
I don't wish to start a full blown debate on Mendi, but I happen to think that in the correct formation Mendi may still have something offer. Yes he may have lost a bit of pace, but I am sure he will have retained his ability to think and place a pass to feet when required.
I was thinking something of a stop gap until Arca and/or Rocky are fit and available. Given the right level of protection from the likes of George/Catt/Rocky in a midfield 5 it may just give us that extra little spark.
However to counter that would mean one up front, and Mido apart, we don't currently have those options with our sugar plum fairy strikers.
But honestly mate, yes I do think we are on the verge of becoming that desperate, because as you and many others have pointed out, we are trying to be an attacking force without the players to do it.
So to palgiarise Ian a little if I may, playing with comittment and passion and doing the simple things like keeping hold of the ball is in my opinion the only way we can play with the squad we have.
Even then we have a lot of hard work to do if we want to stay in this league.
**AV writes: I agree about Mendi and will say so in my column today. When you looked down the bench against Bolton (and in other games in recent weeks) there was not one player capable of doing anything to change the game.
Until that changes we are desperate enough to think about using someone who may not have the pace but does have the eye for a killer pass. With Boat and Catt behind him to add the steel in a five why not? Mendi or Lee coming off the bench? Not an ideal choice - but at least it is a choice.
Holgate Ender
I for one dont want a Bolton by the Tees.
We shouldnt forget that teams like ManU earn the right to play football by not losing on the physical side of the game. You cant play pretty football if you are brushed off the ball in every challenge.
If you watched Arsenal last night they played with pace and movement and physically matched a hard working team. Work rate, pace and bottle are crucial to any successful team and without them you will get rolled over.
In the same way, having a proper striker or front man doesnt mean playing a big lump up. Two examples last night, both Adebayor and Kitson are not trolls, in their different ways they hold the ball up and bring in other players (in Readings case not very often because they never had the ball).
If someone cant hold the ball up and allow players to join or get past then the ball will just come flying back. The other thing a proper striker has is an instinct for goals and a willingness to attack the ball and have a go. With Mido missing we havent got that type of player.
Nice to see Gibson coming out and giving the manager a public vote of confidence. Why tho has he had to speak to several team members to reassure them?
Is this because the main players are actually wanting southgate out and this would be the main reason for these woefull performances?
Southgate needs time to develop as a manager and i believe in time he will become a top manager but is it worth sacrificing our club for the benefit of a learning curve?
I believe in what he is trying to achieve but the players we have got in dont fit the system. we need pace and flair to achieve this attack minded team and the current squad has neither of these attributes.
I say we see where we are come january and see the type of players if any we can get in and ship out (DGL Please). also the departure of p barron is a big loss and i wonder what is going on behind the scenes at the club. AV what do you think about barrons departure?
**AV writes: I think it was inevitable that after Mac left the others in his appliance of science coterie would follow. Round is at Newcastle so that makes sense.
The key is replacing the departures with better.
Neil
Take your point about maybe needing a short term fix but is Mendi the answer? When I have seen him in the last two seasons he has looked like a fish out of water in the premiership.
Boat is struggling with the pace of the game, I just dont think Mendi can cope on the physical side, he needed a break after a third of the season when he first came, his physical condidtion wont have improved after serious injuries and four years having passed.
Then of course there is his undoubted ability to pick a pass. Assuming we play a five man midfield, given he manages to find time and space to do so, who is he going to pass to? That is one of our major problems.
John Powls has articulated many times to bring back Johhno and move Downing inside. I have reservations on the idea but Downing would contribute more than Mendi. He has a good range of passing and is probably the one person who has troubled opposition goalkeepers with his shooting off either foot. He also has more pace and is certainly more than a match for Mendi physically.
No doubt I will recive abusive posts about Downing now but in my view it would be a more practical soultion to Arcas absence.
But what we are doing is trying to compensate for the fact we have no one upfront, whatever we do is window dressing unless someone starts scoring goals.
yes i agree it was coming but who is there to replace these coaches?
you say we need to replace them with better but is cooper better than round, crosby better than beswick?
the coaches that have departed are supposedly some of the best and well respected in english football, surely they are jumping from a sinking ship?
AV, as you probably have reasonable contacts with MFC, can you get Gibbo to give us an update on his aim "to be in Europe more often than not in the next 5 years"?
Presumably we're on track.
Have to say I love Gibson's irrelevant lightweight and heavyweight comparison between us and Chelsea in today's paper. Lovely little smokescreen.
Am still waiting for the comparison between the resources, and league position, of us and Blackburn though. You know Steve, the ones with the lower crowds and spending who appoint proper managers?
I’ve just read the article in the Gazette from Adam Steel and it’s almost as if it’s been written by Lord Gibson himself. Can I offer a little translation for more objective readers:
“The club has prospered under his guidance over many years and he has the experience to make big decisions irrespective of outside influences.�
Translation: SG is not interested in anyone else’s opinions
“Gibson gave Bryan Robson time to establish himself as a manager before finally bringing in Terry Venables to add experience.�
Translation: It was clear after over 6 years in charge Robson had ran out of ideas
“He then stuck by Steve McClaren when Boro were threatened with relegation in the England manager’s final season with the club.�
Translation: McClaren had just signed a new contract and would have been too expensive to ditch him - luckily England came to the rescue.
“And it paid dividends as Boro rallied to save their campaign and reach a European final for the first time in their history.�
Translation: After a failure in tactics the players produced 2 ‘once-in-a-lifetime’ comebacks to reach the final.
So if his backing of Robson is an indication then Southgate will be well into a new contract before Gibson will decide whether he’s up to job – if only every chairman could possessed such infallible judgement.
neil and ian.
i am a defender of every boro player, but i think boateng is on the decline and with arca out, we lack edge.
in fairness to mendi,he was boros best player before he got injured in 2004. if you can remember, boro that season looked the business and when he got injured they struggled (well didn't do as well as hoped) but at least he should be allowed to try and prove ye wrong!! not to rot on the reserves when we are ckearly short of options. just my opinion.
WHY STEVE GIBSON IS WRONG:
" The key is replacing the departures with better. "
I whole hearteldy agree and have said so since day one. But when have we ever done this ?
I will eagerly be awaiting an update to the Who's Who section on the MFC Official site to see the CV of who comes next.
Chances are that it will be the same old back slapping story, i.e. friends of friends in high places at the club.
Gibson has stuck his colours firmly to the GS mast and with it his entire credibility and his entire future.
Please God we escape relegation, but should we fall then there will only be one man to blame, and that won't now be GS, it will be GOD himself.
It would have been far, far better to hold his hand up and to say that he had promoted GS too soon and that he was bringing in a new manager to take full control and to put GS as his No.1 assistant whilst he learned his trade.
There would be no shame in that as it is a big ask to manage a club of this size as a rookie, with all the modern day PR and financial pressures that go with it.
It would have been wise and it would have been prudent. Instead, Gibson has chosen the arrogant and stubborn route which is very, very risky indeed.
Only a fool would have put a five year plan in the hands of a rookie, knowing full well that there was plenty of developmental time needed in there.
I don't blame GS one little bit. I'd have taken the job without any hesitation and so would anyone. He's doing his very best and I applaud him for sticking to his values, principles and ideas, but it is crystal clear that he just isn't ready yet, and neither is Coops. One day perhaps but not now.
This announcement today is one from an arrogant man who thinks that it's his way or the high way, and that just isn't the way to do things.
He was absolutely right to back his under fire manager and to give him SOME breathing space and SOME time.
BUT TO ALLOW US TO RISK RELEGATION IN THE PROCESS IS JUST MADNESS AND A CASE OF NERO FIDDLING WHILE ROME BURNS.
This kind of all out, I decide because I know best attitude will be Gisbons own downfall. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and this is the case here.
If you took a small poll in the Gazette and asked the Gazette readers if they agreed that it was wise or intelligent to give such unconditional, " I have a 5 year plan, he needs time to develop " backing to GS, I think that you would find that the overwhelming majority of fans would not agree with THIS question.
In the interview it says...
" Gibson has seen difficult times before and has a track record of backing his own judgement.
The club has prospered under his guidance over many years and he has the experience to make big decisions irrespective of outside influences.
Gibson gave Bryan Robson time to establish himself as a manager before finally bringing in Terry Venables to add experience. "
Is this supposed to be a joke ?
Who wrote this rubbish ?
Has the Gazette re written the history books ?
This to me says it all and just goes to PROVE that Gisbon got it wrong then just as he has patently obviously got it wrong now.
He gave Brian Robson all the time in the world to establish himself and in the end he couldn't and he didn't and that's why he brought in the cavalry to save the day.
If Robson was so good he wouldn't have needed this help, would he, and so there is absolutely no argument that could possibly counter this.
Successful, competent people don't need help in this way.
Gibson nailed his colours firmly to the Robson mast then and we paid the ultimate price and were relegated as a direct result.
Once again we get the very same nailing of the Gibson colours to the rookie manager mast and our current league table position is the end result.
If we get relegated yet again then Gibson MUST GO.
A CLEVER, INTELLIGENT way of proceeding would have been to appoint GS as No.1 and to then appoint a No.2 of excellent standing with endless knowledge and invaluable experience like Ferguson has at Man UTD.
What did we get here ? Colin Cooper. A great chap, a great servant to the club, a true gentleman and a great family man with great values and great standing in the community, but yet another rookie, learning on the job, making mistakes as he goes, with little or nothing to add.
THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO RUN A FOOTBALL CLUB OF THIS SIZE.
Man City may not be the best example, but Portsmouth certainly is.
Seasoned managers who KNOW what they are doing. Something we don't have and seem totally unwilling to employ.
Why ?
Steve I Am God Gibson.
TB
I have only one response to the play Mendi tendency - Yerjokin'aren'ya.
A reflection on how desperate we are that this should even be suggested. And as Ian says, even if he could pass from his static point - he's not going to run around - who would he be passing to that would get us a goal, precisely?
Sorry and all that, AV, but this is one of those rare occasions which sees us in opposing corners.
David Morrison
The operative word in your last post is 'supposedly'. On whose estimation?
What we have seen on the field in the last couple of seasons offer no justification and surely that's where the judgement must be made.
That would certainly apply to Paul Barron (though not exclusively) in terms of what we've seen from our goalies. Not just in their individual skills development but in how, for example, we set out to defend corners and set pieces which has been awful.
I think that a root and branch overhaul is needed across all of our coaching and fitness staff. And for sure we need someone that we've never had - and it shows - a specialised coach for the strikers.
I see from today's Gazette Gibbo's latest pronouncements, quoted below with my adds in brackets.
But Gibson said it is becoming increasingly tough for sides like Boro to compete with the Premier League’s biggest spenders. (Yes, but we're not asking for that - what about being as consistently good as Blackburn or Bolton when Big Sam was there)
“Our income through the gate will be about £8m this season,� he said. (See brackets above and remember that Blackburn and Bolton have lower crowds than we do - and, of course, income through the gate isn't all there is. We might get more through the gate if MFC approached its customers better)
“So we have to find a way to stay financially secure while keeping our fans interested in what is becoming a very non-competitive league.(Is this code for 'We'd be better off in the Championship?'. If so, you'd better tell us that that's your ambition Mr. Gibson)
Last but by no means least. From today's BBC website - 'Fans website takes over club'.
Well it is only Ebbsfleet (though I'm sure that they are as important to their fans as Boro are to us) but what about it AV?
One challenge by pogatez and vickers is jumping for joy,the game was garbage and bolton had 2 of there best players out.
Recall Mendi!? No please not that, he's a has been, passed it , not fit etc etc.
I would try JP's/Ian Gill's idea of playing Downing in the centre left of midfield a la Zenden and Johnson on the wing. That makes a deal of sense. It may not work but its not the risk that bringing back Mendi would be.
If he were in the team it would be like watching The Alamo, actually no it wouldn't because at the Alamo they put up a spirited defence. Why not bring back Souness, he has good vision and can make a pass............
re john powls, cast your mind back to the start of the great mcclaren era (lol) and the real start of the acadamy.
we were told by gibbo and mcclaren that we will have the best coaches to go with the best facilities in europe. there was huge press coverage that these coaches where some of the best around and they had new and inovative ways of training mentally and physically.
yes i agree we havnt seen that bear fruit on the field but my question was not about the success of them its who do we replace them with? surely round, harrison, barron were better than anderson,mcqueen and shilton or am i wrong again?
John Sully
You have answered my point, I agree that Mendi was our best player in 2004 before his serious injuries. It is three years later and he is three years older.
As for the Gibson debate there is not a lot to be said, it is his ball and he will take it home if you dont play by his rules. He is as stubborn as the rest of us. Doesnt mean there are not some glaring deficiencies to be addressed.
The UEFA cup run did mask the fact we have been on the slide since Dec 04, going 3-0 down on aggregate to stage 2 successive 4-3 last minute comebacks is not as far as I am aware normal tactics.
Still, we have an international break to re energise our batteries before battle recommences.
David Morrison - maybe the coaches are leaving for the same reason that Viduka left...........money.
I think that your question regarding Cooper is a good one, maybe if GS wants him around then he should be the assistant manager, giving the opportunity to bring in a completely new team of coaches.
I'm not a coaching expert but as Tony Black has mentioned prehaps we need a complete overhaul of the coaching structure. Not that I think mid-season is a good time to do it but looks like we have little choice.
I'm sure there are plenty who post on here who cannot see the benefit Barron has brought to Schwarzer's game, so maybe its no loss.
David Morrison
Yes, I remember what the publicity said - but what I was saying was that 'by their works (rather than by the spin) ye shall know them'.
You can argue the relative merits of what each set achieved and what their deficiencies were.
What is clear is that when The Ex left, by his own admission Gibbo turned down Hitzfeld (for goodness sake!!) because he wanted to bring his own team of coaches with him. If you look at their collective record it trumps anything that we've ever had at Boro.
I think that part of the reason for that is that Gibbo and The Count don't value coaching - they see it as overhead not as investment. That gets cloaked as 'continuity'.
When Gate was appointed he had to start - and bearing in mind that he wanted to change the way we were playing - with The Ex's coaching team. Not a surprise that most of us said last season 'where's the change'.
A couple of them left, Round and Beswick, and another is about to - Barron. 2 have ended up at the Barcodes and - thankfully - that's now their problem. 1 is still with Eng-er-lund until The Ex becomes England's Ex too, probably next week.
But to replace those who have gone Gate has ended up with Coops who has about the same coaching experience that he has - very little, and Malcolm Crosby - hardly setting the world alight.
Coops and Gate are both defenders by background and Harry's reputation when he came was as a defensive coach. Yet this season, even more than last, we haven't been able to organise our defence which really should have been their forte.
And who coaches, as I said earlier, the strikers? The only people who have really succeeded as strikers at Boro have been the ones like Ravanelli who famously refused to have anything to do with our coaching or Veruka and The Yak who came here as, if not the finished article, then close to.
Can anyone claim that whilst at Boro they improved as players or we had a system in which they flourished?
I firmly believed that when Moyes paid over the odds for The Yak he expected to get the Portsmouth version not what actually turned up. He promptly dropped him and has only just started to feed him back in to the Everton team as they have got his fitness, individual play and appreciation of their tactics somewhere near what it should have been.
And the legions of the less good strikers that we have had never got any better whilst at Boro.
But are we going to get a specialist coach for the strikers? Will Pearsy step up to the Barron role or will we get a 'top drawer' goalie coach?
We should surely be looking to improve when the opportunity allows. So when Barron goes we should look to get someone better - it may be Pearsy but he shouldn't just be given it before we've tested the market.
By looking at the balance of our coaching staff we could create an opportunity and get a striking coach.
This sort of a team might give Gate a much better chance to dig us out of the hole we've got ourselves in.
well now we know the chairmans feelings about the state of our club,there doesnt seem much point debating what players we need or whether a few backroom changes or a new manager are needed.
we're stuck with what weve got come hell or high water, which in a perverse sort of way will either vindicate the club or prove the fans concerns to be justified.
as for the chairman phoning the players to tell them the manager is staying, the rumours must be true about dressing room unrest.
we know now reading between the lines(we will only take £8mgate receipts) that no transfers will happen in january so the current strike force best get their shooting boots on. dont think there will be much xmas cheer down the riverside this year.
I'm sorry AV, but I still think that the biggest impediment to MFC this season is Gary O'Neil.
Even the telly commentator pointed out how O'Neil completely botched one of our best opportunities.
I would really like someone to post an example on Youtube of a smart O'Neil play.
I actually think that it would be better to switch O'Neil and Young - Young is far better going forward and is shrewder as well.
Ultimately, one player like O'Neil can make the difference, by constantly scuttling chances.
Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy to see him suddenly do really well since he is a Boro player.
But "grafting" is not enough by itself.
**AV writes: O'Neil is far more than just a grafter. He has fantastic control, excellent distribution, he closes down, can tackle, gets back to help in defence, gets forward to help in attack, he can compliment a cautious style or an expansive one... for me he can be the most understated engine room essential since Robbie Mustoe.
just one last point on mendieta. he played for the reserves against utd recently and according to reports pulled the strings in midfield. we have nothing to lose by naming him on the bench and bringing him on. and in central midfield, not out the wing, where he drifts out of the game.
HE SHOULD BE GIVEN A CHANCE.
Ken
Now I'm back to agreeing with AV again. O'Neil - if he can be persuaded to stay and we stay in the Prem - will be seen as the best investment the club has made for donkey's in the transfer market.
I'd make him captain now as the best onfield example we've got. I think we will also find him playing centre midfield as his regular position and we'll find someone else for the right wing.
Although he'll add the odd goal or two to the many virtues that AV set out - as he did at Pompey - we can't ask him to make up for the inadequacies of our absent or ineffectual forwards as well as drive the midfield.
Whilst you have to admire Steve Gibson's loyalty to his (successive) managers I'm just glad that I didn't buy a season tickets whilst GS learns his trade at the fans and teams expense.
As previous posters have asked 'Would SG have taken a driver to manage Bulkhaul?' Of course he wouldn't. So where's the difference between these two businesses? Maybe, fans are mugs but bank managers aren't.
I can't believe the blinkered euphoria over a dull boring de-skilled display of boorish back to the wall negative football.
The ignomony of attracting a lowest ever crowd plus newspapers and TV pundits united in their critiscism of a Premiership "non event" seems to be being papered over by a season first of a defiant, ballsy and steely performance.
Evidence of the unity in the camp and fighting spirit? Or was it in response to the Boo boys getting their point across at the spineless spiritless gutless performances witnessed over previous months.
To celebrate the Bolton display shows just how low we have sunk if we honestly believe now that GS and his troops have turned the corner.
The alternative is that it was indeed the Boo boys that hit home where it hurts and not the coaching staff's newfound tactical nous. I'm not sure which is worse?
Ken, I'd have to agree with AV about Gary O'Neil. I made exactly that comparison (with Robbie Mustoe) to my mate during the Spurs match.
I suspect your feelings about O'Neil wouldn't be so acute if we had someone doing the business up front and scoring a decent few goals. But because we don't, Gary O'Neil's few missed chances take on a higher profile and throw him into a rather unfair spotlight.
Scoring goals isn't the strength of his game. He'll get a few over time, but his contribution will be huge and less obvious or headline-grabbing.
Mustoe was the same and when fit (almost always), was always there, read the game well and had a great engine! I see Gary O'Neil in the same light, but perhpas even a bit more creative than Robbie.
Mustoe was never premiership class.
I think the arguments that are the biggest cause of Steve Gibson’s loss of credibility are coming from the man himself.
He says that it's getting hard for smaller clubs to compete in the premiership and that Boro only receive £8m from gate receipts.
So knowing this, why did he appoint a trainee manager? – would this strategy help to close the gap in competing with the bigger clubs?
We should look at other clubs in our position like Portsmouth and Blackburn – they have on average lower crowds than Boro – but they both went for proven experienced managers and are looking better teams for it.
Also, it’s been said that we turned down experienced managers because they wanted to bring their own coaching staff – so which coaching staff are left at Boro that we didn’t want to lose?
So are we to believe that this is the decision making of a well-run club? or has Gibson like Robson run out of ideas and is in need of help from someone with more experience?
re john powls,
hitzfeld, o'neill, venables where all in nthe frame for the job at one point and what we where made to believe is that the continuity of the coaching staff would help improve players ability and give the club a strong and solid base.
Those guys all disagreed and now here we are 18mnths later and its all changing.
Middllesbrough FC have not improved Players wether bought or through the ranks in the last 15years.
Look at everton - anichebe, cahill, rooney, osman even lee carsley. The improvement is massive and they can build off it. rooney's sale stabalised everton and gave them the funds to buy big (johnson, yakubu, baines)we have nothing that we can sell for serious money nor have we any quality coming through to give hope and a foundation.
Therefore the manager has little resources to play with and we need a quality back room to help nurture and improve average players as SG clearly dosnt have the experience to get the best out of them.
We should have kept James Morrison as a right wing option , that way we could move O'Neil inside to his preferred position.
Ken, have you been drinking? O'Neil is not a striker!
I really rated him at Pompy and he has been one of our, if not our most consistent player in his position. [the other candidates - Wheater and Arca before injury]
Regarding Mendi, I think the only way he could make an appearance would be after the hour mark so the opposition are tiring. I would play him central with Cattermole along side him for cover with Downing and Adam Johnson as runners left and right wings to help the striker/s?
After the hour mark we make changes and unfortunately the bench has not got the goods required to maintain the level of the first hour or change tactically and improve on it.
I think with Southgate's predicament he did not dare try and nick a win in the last half an hour against what we all knew would be a tiring Bolton side.
Maybe we don't have the players? Our only second half sub was Hutchinson and the others on the bench were ;Turnbull, Shawky, Lee.
This is why Boro fans are begging for ADAM JOHNSON or to see Mendi, and frankly I am with them as Dong Gook or Boateng for Cattermole or Aliadiere is not a system when we are nil nil at home or losing away.
I am a Boro fan win lose or draw but I would love to see some intent in the last 30 minutes of the match even if it proves fruitless due to lack of quality strikers.
Well if you had brought in a decent manager Gibson, the gate receipts would have been more than £8 mill a season!
God knows how many season tickets we will sell next season even if we do stay up. This is definitely my last season.
Let's face it, Southgate is here for five years regardless of what division we are in because Gibson is never wrong!
Is this the same John Barnwell that tried to veto Southgate's appointment as Boro Manager in the first place? The terms double Standards, two faced and hypocrisy come to mind....
Interesting to see that John Barnwell of LMA ia now praising Gibbo for giving Gate the dreaded 'vote of confidence'.
Wasn't this the same John Barnwell who, when Gate was appointed, objected long and loud to the appointment because Gate hadn't got his coaching badges and didn't fit the LMA criteria and put up his LMA cronies like Sir Alex to kick up a stink too?
Didn't he also object and oppose Gate getting an extension to the time he was allowed to complete his badges and pro-licence?
More politician than ex-manager it seems.
It's totally unfair to pick out an O'Neill mistake in the Bolton game when both Downing and Alliadiere failed to score from their better chances.
O'Neill was probably the best Middlesbrough player in the Tottenham game where most of our attacking play came down the right side.
It seems that both Tuncay and Alliadiere prefer to drift wide right to link up with O'Neill. Is it a coincidence that Downing's poor recent form started after Yakubu's exit from the club? He always liked drifting to the left wing, but now it seems down to just Stewie and Taylor to try to make progress up the left.
As for coaching, I also wonder why we don't have a specialised attacking coach, given the defensive lean of the existing staff. It couldn't hurt to have one.
Also, surely coaches become stale after a relatively short time? I mean, what could Barron pass on to Schwarzer that he hadn't told him in the first few months and that Schwarz, with his experience, doesn't already know? Maybe we should get new coaches every couple of years.
Lastly - Adam Johnson or LDG - who would you rather see on the bench? I'm with all the other commenters here; it's time we got him back from Watford.
I'm in the pro O'Neill camp, he's definitley been the buy of the season and yes he's the man to make captain.
How the worm turns.
Months ago I was almost burned at the stake for daring to question GOD and daring to suggest that it might be time for him to go.
Interesting also how the Stalinist Evening MFC Gazette does NOT reflect fans views and feelings in its back pages.
Yes, AV gets a few comments under the wire in the guise of his blog page, and long may it continue, but I have yet to see a full page article outlining what has been said in here.
Thankfully this blog is the exception to the rule where people can express their geniune feelings and beliefs even if they go against the mainstream view.
However hard it may be for some loyal fans, and I fully undertsand why they don't and probably never would, staying away is the ONLY way to force change.
Whilst everyone keeps handing over their hard earn dollars then Gibson has a valid mandate for what he genuinely feels is right.
I don't for one moment question his loyalty and passion for the club and that he is one of us, I just think that he's just plain wrong.
A haulier has no idea about football coaching just a football coach has no idea about being a haulier and this is where the problem lies. He is a business man. He is an exceptional business man, but this is where it ends.
The coaching staff at this football club are not, and have never been " the best in the business ". This is a line put out by the Three Legends and CO and MFC propaganda machine and anyone who believes this is an idiot.
A look through the Who's Who section of the Official web site will demonstrate that the coach's we have, whilst not being the worst, are no way near to being the best in the business.
This view is so laughable that it's actually so sad that so called intelligent pundits people can claim this.
To be the best in the business you need to have a good and extensive Champions League pedigree, and you need to have travelled, gaining experience in all the main leagues around the world. The combination of these things is what makes you the best in the business.
Heralding from Teesside University, York City, Oxford, Grimsby, or Sunderland and the like does not in any way qualify you to be considered to be the best in the business and this claim is an absolute insult to those that are.
Obviously, there are coach's who can be considered in this vain who have only coached in their home country, but the difference here is that they are surrounded by coach's from different leagues and different nationalities which all then combine to offer a wealth of experience, knowledge and ideas. We don't have and we have never had this.
To claim that these people would never come to MFC is also an absolutely pitful excuse as to why we employ who we employ.
This again goes back to our small town in Europe mentality and the claim that we can never compete with the big boys and so should be forever grateful for merely existing year on year in this league because not so long ago we went bust and God saved us all.
But GOD IS NOW THE PROBLEM. At every single opportunity he makes the same age old claims and goes on to say that we can never compete because we are who we are and as we've been priced out of the market.
Of course he's right about being priced out of the market, but only to a point. Whilst you continue to have and to send out this message you are more or less saying that you've given up TRYING and that this is as good as it gets.
What an attitude.
When football players within the club give out interviews that CLEARLY talk about the internal problems at the club itself, and CLEARLY identify the coaching deficiencies, including this age old mentality, then you know that you've got a problem.
When I posted this interview in here all those months ago I was again harpooned for being a grumpy old crank with nothing better to do.
But PERHAPS now it will hit home a bit more.
AND I QUOTE FROM THE NORTHERN ECHO.
" There are things behind the scenes that are vital in football to reflect a winning mentality on the pitch. "
" There is a negative environment in this city because there is a fear of going down. Things must change and we must provide that from inside to outside the club. "
" When you look at the club, it is a settled one, and the chairman wants to build a good club. But the ideas must still go forward. "
" There needs to be a base created for a good and positive environment at the club over the next two or three years, with players who show character "
" If we can do this we can challenge the top half of the table because you have a winning mentality. We still don't have a winning mentality here. "
" Everybody knows that we have a positive academy, which creates talented players. But the quality has to be raised to step up performances and educate good habits, and in doing so you will create a better person and a better player. "
" It is not good enough for me to hear 'we are small town from the North-East and we must stick with our old ideas'. No, if the club wants to go forward, as I know the chairman and gaffer wants, they need to jump, make the next step and globalise."
These are not my words, they are those of Abel Xavier. Like him or not he was at the club and clearly identifyed where the problems where and why the club was and still is failing.
TB
I'm in the O'Neil for captain - O'Neill for manager and Oh kneel before the all-powerful Lord Gibson camp...
Ken, you are the only Boro fan to dislike O'Neil.He is doing a great gob in Midfield . He should be skipper on merit!
Bring back A Johnson from Watford NOW!
I like Southgate but suspect he doesn't have the confidence to spend the money he as been allocated.
He made a big fuss about McClaren not focusing on the Boro's needs while he was angling for the England job. He criticised his poor planning in the transfer market - yet his own attempts to secure replacements have been marked with hesitation and fear.
He's been very successful securing some high quality players like Arca, Young and O'Neil but strangely cautious about Goalscorers and Goalkeepers.
Established goalscorers in particular are hard to secure, so if you are a Boro manager you have to take risk and go for someone who is not yet established or pay over the odds. Either way you need to be decisive.
Regarding Lee, Tuncay, Mido, Aliadiere I sense an element of caution and fear in their recruitment. He's frightened of getting another Ricketts, Boksic.
I think he will act more confidently in the transfer market now that it is clear to everyone he must secure a Goalscorer i.e. hes being forced into it.
I'd go for Bent at Spurs - he's not my 'cup of tea' I prefer the more graceful, 'slick' goalscorers - but I think he would work well for the Boro.
Regarding the Goalkeeping situation Gareth needs to be hauled over the coals. We are in position where we rely on a discontented, less than convincing 36 year old. The situation is the sole responsibility of Gareth Southgate.
He should take some comfort from the fact that replacing him is the easiest and most riskless of decisions because he is the worst goalkeeper in the club and any number of goalkeepers from the SPL or Championship would be a vast improvement.
The recent comments describing Schwarzers efforts as "dominating his box" are very worrying. Who is he trying to kid ? He saunters across the box (the slowest feet I have ever seen in prof football).
Now that Barron has gone hopefully we won't have to put up with the posturing choregraphed halftime exhibitions on how to catch a floated ball. Gareth - if you find it hard to 'get shot of him' - just remember:
(i) He can't wait to leave.
(ii) He's had 10 years of fabulous wages.
(iii) Our defence will improve immediately.
I promised to 'lay off' Schwarzer but I didn't anticipate Gareth trying to persuade us that he's a good goalkeeper.
No more 'flannel' Gareth - just replace him or he'll be your downfall.
tonyblack,
great blog really hits home and i truly agree that the fans voice has been muted through the media of late
.
Critisism of SG i feel is unfair tho as u can see what he has helped build over the years. The acadamy, the stadium top class training facilities to sugest but a few.
We as fans are never going to know what happens behind the scenes and this i feel is frustratiing the fans because we get mixed stories and spin from GS, KL and SG every other day it seams.
Without SG this club wouldnt exist let alone be in the premiership. I believe we have got the best platform to build on outside the top 4 but its using this platform to get the fans back onside and give a clear vision of what we are trying to achieve.
Middlesbrough FC have never had a style of football over the years so lets start by setting a plan for how we want to play and buying players and nurturing players into this style so that we are clear on our ambition.
Gs says he wants attack minded football but then SG says we cant compete so why try to play that way in the 1st place? SG needs to back GS in january and back him big. There are players out there and they will come because they are interested in one thing £££ and we have all seen it over the years.
just been watching some of Dong gook Lee's goals before he joined the Boro on youtube.com and alright half of them are against midget unorganised defences and poor goal keepers but there are a lot of 20yard volleys and drives from all over going in top corners.
He needs putting in the reserves to get some goals and confidence back maybe?
Can't we loan him out to Watford....
**AV writes: Maybe we can do a swap deal for that young left winger they have there?
Gareth Southgates choice of striker in the summer was poor - hope we dont get more of the same come Jan.
Bent or Defoe have points to prove but they will want a wagon full of bullion for their trouble. I bet if the lazy Yak was still here he would have scored some goals though.
Goalscorers cost money and I'm not sure if we can afford it.
One things for sure , Viduka and Yakubu have not been replaced.
Gate today:
'We are in the situation we are in deservedly, because we have not played well enough or scored enough, we have conceded at the wrong times - any number of reasons.
We know as a group of players and staff that we have to get ourselves out of that situation - because we are not going to get help from any other club.
It is down to us.'
Tell us something we don't know!
And as Ian has been saying for a while the telling time will be before the window opens - and even after it opens, who will we be able to attract, how long to bed them in and how will we cover another Mido absence for African Nations Cup.
So, in the knowledge that the answer from the playing perspective lies with what we've got (though we could do something about fitness, coaching if not management) I would offer you all a question in the form of another quote.
This time it's from Eastwood, C as Harry Callaghan -
'Do ya feel lucky, punk(s)? Well do ya?'
With apologies for calling you punks!
By the way - my answer is that I'd really, really like to feel lucky but I need to see something different and better on the field, starting no later than a performance and a win against Villa.
I don't necessarily mean all-out attacking football either. I mean an intelligent and optimum use of the resources at our disposal on the day that the players can go out practised in and comfortable with and that they can deliver on the pitch.
If we ally that to the levels of commitment from all of the team that we see from some of them we'll draw our fans in too and they'll get behind the team - because we're all desperate to.
If I could be confident of that then I may wake up on the morning of the Villa game and feel like a lucky punk and not as though I'm going to get the bullet!
Mark j dont talk rubbish and thinking that your booing and the rest of your boo boys had anything to do with the display. Ive said before booing inspires no one
KEN, are you the Ken of Ken and Barbie fame?... O'Neil FOR Captain.
Quote: "He's frightened of getting another Ricketts or Boksic".
It's ridiculous to equate those two. While at Boro, Boksic had the highest scoring percentage of any striker in the Premiership. He rarely missed chances. The big problem was that when he was at Boro, we were creating virtually no chances at all.
But back to 2007, people seem to clearly like O'Neil, as they are coming up with irrelevant excuses for him.
"Remember he is not a striker". But if so, ** then he should not shoot instead of passing the ball to Tuncay or Aliadiere **
People are talking about Spurs, but he had a great opportunity against Bolton where he could have made an easy pass to strikers in good positions, yet he tried to play at being Ronaldo and get past several defenders, but instead just managed to bog things down and lose the ball. In fact, this is exactly what Medieta did that caused him to be benched permanently.
Gary O'Neill is a quality player who will make a first class captain. A born leader, experienced captain, well respected by the players and fans at Pompey, wears his heart on his sleave, leads from the front.
The fact that he didn't pass to A,B or C when he should have is a 'barrel scraper' of an argument; funny in its flimsiness. 'The wisdom of the fool is such that he alone is sane'.
In talking about individual players we musnt lose sight of the fact it is a team game and the reason for where we are in the table is collective. The current players and coaching staff have to get us out of the current pickle.
I had a quick look at the current table and the one from two matches ago. You can clearly see that clubs from Reading down are now being cast adrift.
Of those in the bottom section, Bolton and Spurs look to be starting to move, Wigan are in freefall, Derby arent worth worrying about (the fans dont know where their next points will come from but I have a shrewd hunch). The rest are basically holding position.
So what will we get from the next three matches. I would be happy with four points but Villa - difficult to beat at the moment, away from home tend to draw, have real pace and will be very organised. A point wouldnt be a bad result
Reading away - difficult to see us getting anything, very hard working and play some decent football. A point would be a good result.
Arsenal at home - beyond us.
That is not a cheery prospect but all the club can do is have a go. Good to see Mido back in training after his break. Arca looks to be closer to a return. What is needed is a flash of brilliance, a stroke of luck, to get in front and the other team to chase the game.
Only time will tell if we are up to it or whether our slither down the slope that started in Dec 2004 will end with us dropping off the cliff.
Mark 76,
read some of my previous posts on booing and you will find I am against it during the match as it gives the opposition a physcological edge. I went as far as calling it suicide!
My point was the action [ booing] got a reaction [ the players performance against Bolton]. But the thing is Southgate should be able to inspire performances anyway
Pre match at Bolton he could use the booing at the previous game as motivation to the players to go out and prove that part of the crowd wrong.
Also Mark 76, I do not operate a faction of boo boys towards my own team -Boro - and in fact have never booed the Boro although I have seen some woeful performances - just so you are not getting my stand point confused okay.
Ken, interesting info about Boksic -'Boksic had the highest scoring percentage of any striker in the Premiership' and he would have scored more if we created more chances.
He certainly was good one on one but that hardly appened too often due to his Torres like pace? I understand what you are saying though.
Your comment-'I still think that the biggest impediment to MFC this season is Gary O'Neil.' going on to say he shot and missed when he should have passed as he is not a striker -
Most of the team have missed numerous opportunities this season yet have not grafted as hard as O'Neil [tackles, possession ,passes made] Therefore shouldn't you be saying most of the team is the biggest impediment to MFC.
We all like stylish attacking midfielders who score goals but versatile understated midfielders are not irrelevant.
Have you seen Claude Makelele?
Should we give Mendieta a chance from the bench in the second half? If he is partnered with someone like Cattermole or a fit Boateng to give him the freedom to do what he did against Man U on Saturday, October 29th 2005
Okay everyone before you all go jumping down my throat I know it was 2 years ago ,I am just looking for an option for the last 30 minutes of matches were we usually run out of ideas.
Other substitutions have made little impact and we are struggling in the last half an hour even at home.The last 3 games are proof enough ,its been the case all season.
**AV writes: The Mendieta option is a non-starter. The club are against it come hell or high water. Even if there was a coach crash wiping out half the team he wouldn't make the bench. Me, you and lambie would play first.
The argument we're having about Mendy - and I'm absolutely in the "not on your nelly" camp - boils down to the fact that the squad is woefully thin.
The bench we've had to put out in recent times, due to injuries, has been a joke. And it won't get any better with the amount of yellow cards we're stacking up. We need to buy 3 or 4 quality players come January.
In the meantime, we absolutely MUST bring back Jinky from Watford. I can't believe we haven't recalled him already. When's he due back, AV? Any inside info on this from Boro?
**AV writes|: We ask every week. Boro are constantly monitoring his progress and are delighted with the way things are going at Watford. They were not able to recall him for the first 28 days but can now. As it stands they are "keeping their options open" on the question.
Ignorant
No one is going to jump down your throat about the Mendi comment.
Like many I have always posted Mendi had his best games in a midfield 5 (as does Rocky) and that day we played 352. They were up against a midfield four of Fletcher, Smith, Scholes, Park and passed United to death.
Between then and now two years have passed, he has suffered injuries and in the outings I have seen has cut the mustard.
I have nothing against Mendi, I just dont think he could cope physically. JFH played in that match and look how quickly his performances have slipped. Others who have gone backwards from the first team squad are Ugo, Gate, Parlour. Even Boat is showing signs of wear and tear.
Gate is reading this blog.
He has decided via The Gazette to let me and anyone else who dares to suggest a Mendi return know where he stands on the matter.
Simple, Mendi is a definite non-starter in the squad, team, even in Teesside. He's a goner.
So debate over chaps, shame.
...and reading between the lines it's not all about footballing reasons.
Beeline, are you going down the personal route or financial? Could it be that if a player plays 'x' amount of games for a club then that club has to pay them an extra 'y' amount of cash? It could explain why a player doesn't appear on the bench of a club that is hardly blessed with strength in depth. Just a thought...
I wonder if the equally if not more experienced Mendietta has a few ideas about an attacking football style that differ from Southgate's and Cooper's and Lamb's.
Maybe it is because Southgate[Crystal Palace, Aston Villa] feels undermined by Mendi [champions league final twice with Valencia,48million euro move to Lazio, Barcelona] who knows about going forward in the final 3rd.
We will never know what goes on as Mendi is professional as he says 'I believe that I am still able to play for Boro. I aspire to be in the starting 11 and the season is long.'
The day Mendietta signed for the Boro was great as he was my favourite Spanish midfielder and I have seen some great stuff from him in a Boro shirt before his exile and this is why I question the Great one's who run the club so well.
Unless of course Juninho2 is a done deal on Jan the first .
I think we are already short on midfielders nevermind with our injury record and yellow cards adding up for Cattermole Boat and Rocky....
Mendi isn't playing because GS thinks he's past it, he's the boss, seems fair enough to me. If he started making decisions based on what we post then I think I'd join Diablo Derek and become an arm chair Man Utd 'fan'.
GS wants him out because he gets paid a shed load of money, Mendi won't go because no one else is daft enough to pay him a bucket full let alone a shed load. He was a great player who is now comfortable collecting his pension and we are paying for it.
By the way, AV, 'Ignorant' and Lambie playing for the Boro? Would that be in a Christmas tree formation with a light weight fairy on top?
Okay Nigel Reeve, good to see you come out and back Southgate in a Gibbo style.
Ivan Campo is the same age as Mendi and played the full 90 minutes against us and even cropped up to have a couple of chances which he missed.
A fit Mendi would have put one away mate-are you not following his movements in the reserves? Allardyce would be getting the best out of Mendi if he were at the wheel.
We are not Man U or Chelsea and this is why we get players like Mendietta , Boksic,Jimmy Flloyd and the like towards the end of their careers.
Boro like Bolton has not got the pull or wealth of bigger clubs so we have to pay big money in January if we buy a top quality striker as he will not come cheap if he is any good.
Complain all you like about my warped views by all means but don't put me in league with Lambo , thats below the belt. Ouch!
mark j. i agree with you. it is painfully clear that our bench is a joke. and to have a former champions league finalists rotting on the reserves is a scandal.
has southgate got personal issues with mendy??? was it the same with jimmy floyd??? i think it is about time southgate started to listen to fans views because we can see where this club is heading.......down.
No - much more pragmatic than that Billy. The club obviously want him off the books as soon as possible (and have done for a couple of years as stated in the article), and fear that even the merest hint that he may win back his place would be seen as encouragement. Hence Southgates categorical statement.
Belts are being tightened all over the club, and both Lamb and Southgate must be praying that they can convince Mendieta to go before the transfer window opens. They need desperately to free up more cash to tempt a decent striker, which is not going to be easy in our present position.
GS's comments about rumours, half truths and chinese whispers emanating from website blogs would have been believable if it had come from a young naive teenage entertainer just caught in their first ever faux pas by a tabloid paparazzi.
Who on earth is handling the clubs PR these days? Even teenage starlets have a "Max Clifford" somewhere in the wings advising them on the "correct" thing to say and when to say it and more importantly when not to say it.
A club which has cornered the market in "Home alone" footballers should either make damn sure nothing remotely embarassing repeats itself or immediately counter expose's with a professional but believable PR spin. Once is an accident (Emerson), twice (Viduka) is unfortunate but three times is deliberate (or incompetence at worse).
As if that wasn't enough why on earth start a Mendieta vendetta at the same time. Here is a world class footballer who has never slagged off the team, the town or the people yet the club's attitude smacks of the "with us or without us" mentality we are witnessing all too often.
Now maybe behind the scenes there are "issues" with Mendy that would taint our views of him as an individual or his contract at the very least but there is absolutely no excuse for a Manager in any organisation to say somebody who is in their employ has "no future" in the organisation.
More disturbingly comments like that do not sound like the Gareth Southgate we all knew. In fact it sounds a lot more like someone else in the clubs hierarchy pulling his strings. You would almost think he did actually reads the blogs he vehemently claims he doesn't.
I learnt a long time ago in business that if you have nothing worth saying then say nothing! Least said soonest mended.
Mendietta is a luxury that Boro can not afford.
It has been estimated that he's on 40K a week (ie 2 million a year) - So given that Gibson said this week that we only take 8 million pounds a year through the turnstiles - Then a quarter of all supporters are paying for someone who can't even make the bench.
He won't go because he's not even going to get half that money from anybody else - but that's always the problem with big names and big contracts.
werdermouth. wages is not the issue with mendy. granted he might be rich but that is football and class always earns the dosh. but if you were the gaffer, would you keep a player of mendys class in reserves? in my case, no.
he would be given a chance and he,s performances would do the talking. remember gs has dumped jimmy and massimo and brought in lee and ammmmmm NOBODY!!
THE SQUAD IS WEAK AND IGNORING SQUAD MEMBERS IS MAKING IT WORSE.
Final word on Mendi??
I am sure it is more for financial reasons than for football reasons that Mendi is being told to get out of town.
I can understand that, as getting a much needed striker in is probably Gate's priority (at least I hope so) and he needs the extra money.
It's another sign that all is not well financially at MFC, and we are finally seeing the age of the "the club Teesside can afford" coming to bear.
On the footballing end of the debate, I still believe that Mendi has something to offer, even in the short term, however that is now immaterial.
"If he started making decisions based on what we post then I think I'd join Diablo Derek and become an arm chair Man Utd 'fan'."
.....Ah hem not an armchair fan and meh name is not Derek.....
You sir are clutching at straws, a bit like "wot" your hapless manager is doing.