KEITH Lamb has laced into "negative" Bernie Slaven in a no-holds-barred interview with Boro fanzine Fly Me To The Moon. The tension between the chief executive and the Glaswegian grumbler has been simmering since the news broke the Century match commentary had been axed - but it is all out in the open now after Lamb's robust two-footed tackle in the fanzine.
Lamb also clarified his controversial statement on the role and importance of season ticket holders, gave an insight into Boro's strategy within the changing economics of football and emhasised that Boro fans are living through a golden age and that there could be more success to come - but only if Teesside continues to support Gareth Southgate's drive for attacking football and Steve Gibson's vision of a club geared up for sport and glory.
Here, by kind permision of FMTTM editor Rob Nichols is the hard-hitting interview in full:
You've mentioned many times before how you believe Middlesbrough to be a special club and something to be really proud of. Is this something you passionately believe in?
Absolutely. I was born in Port Clarence on the other side of the Transporter Bridge. I've lived here all my life. I've been a supporter all my life. My dad took me to my first Middlesbrough game in - I think - 1956. We played Doncaster Rovers and I stood in the Bob End behind the goal. We won 5-0 and Harry Gregg was in goal for Doncaster. Apart from my teens, twenties and thirties when I played football (in the Northern League - Ed) I've always been a Boro fan. This always has and always will be my only club.
So this is a great role for you?
It's fantastic. I get well paid for doing a job that most people would do for nothing. It has it's downs: it doesn't sound right this, but sometimes I get people accosting me in the toilets (laughs) in Yarm if there's been a bad result. But that goes with the territoryand generally my job's a fantastic job. I meet all sorts of interesting people - some famous and some very famous. And some uninteresting! But it's a smashing job.
A few years ago we held firm when other clubs were becoming PLCs and now again we stand out from the crowd in an age when foreign investors are snapping up clubs left right and centre:
This club belongs to the town. It belongs to the people of Middlesbrough and Steve Gibson and myself are only the custodians of it. Our job is to look after the club while it is in our care and hopefully leave it in a better state than we found it, which won't be difficult as we found it in liquidation, in tatters and in the third division.
Where are we today? We're in the Premier League. We've been in Europe two years out of the last three. We've got to the final of the UEFA Cup. We've won the Carling Cup. We've got to those other finals. It's been a fantastic ten years for us. Yet I still think the fans want more and I don't mind that, I'm the same. But they've got to support us to get it.
I've read in Fly Me To The Moon in the past comment about Johnny-Come-Latelies and people who jump on the bandwagon. Well you're absolutely right about that and I don't want people to come and support us just because we are successful. I want people to support us to make us successful.
The fans have to be part of it. The Twe12th Man... I fully support that, I think it is fantastic because the more people we get in the stadium supporting the Boro, the better. And make no mistake about it, the players want that support. The players don't want to see empty seats. Everyone wants a full house. And I don't quite know what more we can do about it.
If anyone thinks it is not enough then it's their right to think that but I question what's the alternative? We can take Steve Gibson out of the equation and let the club exist without his support and see where that gets us. My guess is that it would get us relegation, and then maybe relegation again. Look at Leeds United... it's a very fragile eco-system. I believe it is best left alone. It's working for Middlesbrough.
You mentioned last season when Jonathan Woodgate signed that in terms of cup success, in the past decade, Boro have been bettered only by the Big Four.
Yes, take the top four out and we've appeared in more cup finals than any other team since we moved to the Riverside. The next team is Leicester who have been in the finals. We've been in five.
I think that cause real surprise, almost like the penny hadn't dropped.
Yes. Myself and Steve Gibson, with the help of Dave Allan are determined to create that awareness because I don't think people are thinking about it. We're fighting back now we regards to putting a positive spin on this football club, not for personal gain or to create an illusion about being better than we are, but to create an awareness about how good we are. How good it should be for the people of Teesside. This should be the best time. And yet I look outside even on Sunday against Newcastle to see 6,000 empty seats and I'm thinking... what more do we have to do?
The onus is on the team to play attractive football. I can't force people to come in and watch us but I think if we play as well as we did on Sunday and as well as we did against Blackburn - I though we played really well in the first half - then we are going to win the fans back.We haven't got to put out a begging bowl and beg them to come back, we've got to win them bac. Again, in the end I accept that if they don't want to come I can't make them. And if they don't want to come eventually the people on Teesside will get the club that their support is able to manage.
That was something picked up nationally after the Blackburn game but the week after a lot of the smaller capacity clubs were at home and attracted smaller gates than us. Do you feel we have been picked on?
If you look at any league table of comparisons within the Premier League we are probably 14th or 15th. If you look at capacity we are around there, if you look at attendance or turnover we are there again. And thats why I think in the last ten years we have played... above par if you like. We've been 10th, 12th, 7th, got to the UEFA Cup final, won the Carling Cup. Now you don't expect that from a team that has the resource of 14th place.
What's the difference between that resource and what we've achieved? Well to degree it's been good management, on the field it's been about players doing slightly better but in th emain it's been about Steve Gibson - and myself to a lesser degree - being able to get the best out of our pound. You ask any other football manager who the best chairman is to work for and it's Steve Gibson because he loves this club and supports it to an unbelievable extent. But he can't do it alone. If you think I'm unhappy about 6,000 empty seats just think how pissed off he must be.
So you are wanting to push this message across this season?
Well I am trying to counteract some of the negativity from some of the media pundits, some of whom are ex-players of this football club, who owe their legendary status to this football club and continue to make a living on the back of this football club... and yet they continue to criticise this football club time and time again, and that's what I don't like.
I think we are trying to be more positive about the club and get a positive message across that this football club is at the heart of the community. It's the highest profile organisation on Teesside and the only world class organisation that we have in the town. We should be proud of that. We shouldn't be knocking it at every opportunity.
And we're going to counteract that. If it had been knocked by some journalist in London we'd all be outraged. It's beyond my comprehension why somebody within our midst is criticising the football club. Steve Gibson said on the radio at the weekend, as far as this club is concerned you are either with us or against us. I'm looking for people who are with us and those who are against us need to be identified. They can be against us all they want but they are against us and they are outside the club, not within it. I don't understand those people. That's why we're going to put this positive campaign forward.
Boro fans generally are very patient, very supportive of the football club but I think their view is sometimes coloured by what they hear on the radio. I do it with newspapers, if I read something in the newspaper (for example Abramovich to buy Ronaldinho) then I believe it is true. If I look at the next page which says something like "I wanted to make a sign at the drunkards by Mido" then I know its not true. I know he put his finger to his lips but I don't think drunkards were in his mind. Because it's about Middlesbrough I know it is not true... but I believe everything else.
So when someone writes crap or speaks on the radio - whether it's on Century or Talksport or wherever - and speaks a load of shit I don't believe it. But the people out there do believe it and they say "if Bernie Slaven says it then it must be true, he's got the inside track at this football club". Well, Bernie Slaven doesn't have any inside track at this football club and he never will have, unless he changes and who knows when that will happen.
But I'm not being vindictive, what I'm saying is that Bernie is misguided enough to be damaging the football club. He's not damaging it for me, he's damaging it for everybody because he's turning people off the club. And he knows how I feel and that it's totally unacceptable to me.
Now I'm not saying that if we lose 4-0 at home to Aston Villa he shouldn't say we were bad. I'm talking about his constant griping about this club, the sale of Yakubu and allowing Viduka to leave, totally criticising the club on that. He criticises without the ownership, he doesn't hav eto run the club. He can make these throwaway comments and he doesn't have to think about them or whatever. We all want the club to be successful and if you asked Bernie I'm sure he would say he wanted it to be successful as well. So let's be more positive.
Many years ago you addressed a supporters meeting saying PPV would come in and ground prices would then drop. You could even foresee a scenario where clubs were so desparate to get away fans in they would sell ticket very cheaply. We seem a long way from that.
Not neccessarily, I just think it's taking a bit longer than maybe you or I thought. But it's turning.
You think so?
Yes I do. I think that prices have peaked. Look at Middlesbrough for instance. This is our third season without a price increase, now that's equivalent to a 7.5% decrease if you tak ethe retail price index. What I said at the time was that I thought eventually TV income would subsidise ticket prices. Eventually TV income would be a bigger per centage of a football club's income.
When I first took the job here in 1986 I went to the then League champions Everton to find out from them how you ran a football club and they gave me a pie chart of income. It was much more straightforward then. Basically 60% of your income came through the gate and the other 40% came from other commercial activities including television. You look at a pie chart now of a club's income and you'll find that 60% comes from television aloneabout 25% gate icome and the rest from other commercial activities. So you can see the growth and importance of TV income and how the money that comes through the gate is less essential towards th eoverall success of the club.
That was the point I was trying to make and I made it badly at a press conference a little while ago when I was asked mischievously in front of the cameras about season tickets being down. And I said "in actual fact as far as the club's overall revenue is concerned the onus is on us to play attractive football the make the fans want to watch us. We get more money from people paying on the door than we do on season tickets that are discounted".
I've apologised for any misunderstanding with that. It wasn't that I was saying we don't care about season ticket holders but it was a question of fact. We want the stadium full and igf people are paying full price rather than the discounted season ticket holders we actually get a bit more revenue. And that can only help the club. It doesn't go to pay Steve Gibson and me because that's not how it works. It's ploughed back into the club and helps us grow and grow and get better and better.
Do you not regret that we didn't make any reduction in prices at the end of last season?
Not at all.
I hear what you say, that in real terms the prices have come down compared to inflation but it you had actually physically reduced the tickets by even a nominal amount then surely you would have got a better message across?
What message?
The message that you are a season ticket holder putting your money up front and we want to reward you for your loyalty with a reduction in your ticket cost.
We talked about reducing prices and both myself and Steve Gibson were against it because there is no guarantee by reducing prices that you increase the number of people who come and watch. Two classic examples of that this year are Blackburn and Wigan both of whom have significantly reduced their season ticket prices and matchday prices and have got less season ticket holders than the year before, one 20% down and the other about 15%. So it can backfire as people say the product has been cheapened.
It's been proved in the European games. The first year everyone came because it was a novelty but in the second year they didn't come even though we were winning and winning and winning. They came for the quarter-finals and semi-final and we couldn't get most of them to th efinal because of the ridiculous ticket allocation... but that is another story.
What about Charlton Athletic last season, where we had big reductions on the Saturday before Christmas? It's usually a terrible turn out but we got one of the biggest attendances of the season
We got big crowds but we took less money.
But you said about wanting bigger crowds and a better atmosphere and that that would be better for the players and provide more enjoyment for everyone. So hopefully the crowd will come back for the next match?
But they didn't did they? Your argument was fantastic until that last point. For Charlton on 23rd December we had 32,000 people. For the next game in New Year's Day, traditionally a fantastic game, a Yorkshire derby against Sheffield United we had 27,000. And I bet they brought 3,000.
Obviously this is the week of the transfer deadline and by the time I have published this interview that deadline will be over. But is Middlesbrough still a club able to compete in the world of big transfer signings?
How big do you want? Mido's 6ft 3!
"Spectacular signings" was the quote over the Summer.
I think one man's spectacular is another man's ordinary. It depends on what you are looking at. All I would say is that, as of today, we've spent £17m and that's not a bad outlay. It's twice what we get through the gate and we've spent it all on transfers. We are not Chelsea or Man United but - going back to what I said earlier - I bet we are not 14th either in terms of the players we bring to the football club. We try to get good value. We're always looking and we remain fiercely ambitious and want to be in that top six.
Can we still break into the top six with all the money flooding into the game?
The players think we can and that's more important than whether I think we can. I hope so. I think we have a very, very astute manager. If he wants to be he can be a really top manager and hopefully that will be with this football club. I think it was an inspired signing by Steve Gibson to move him from club captain to manager.I think that Gareth shares Steve's - and my - ambition for this club. Not for himself ... Gareth is fiercely ambitious for Middlesbrough football club.
So you still have those lofty aims?
Absolutely. Why else would we be here? We are not here for mediocrity. Why would we have just bought Mido, or spent the last two days sorting out for another Egyptian to come? When we played at Hartlepool back in 1986 we wouldn't have dreamt of playing in Europe and going to cup finals. It was then a case of surviving and getting a team out. Since then we've had promotions and relegations and instant promotions again but basically over the last 21 years, from 1986 to now, I think it has been the most successful period in the club's history.
All I would ask the fans to remember is that the only way we can take it on from here is to be in the top six, Europe every year and winning a cup every other year. That's the next step. And the only way we are going to get from where we are now to where we want to be is if everybody pulls in the same direction.
There may be some knockbacks on the way but my plea to the fans is let's all get behind the team - and bring a friend along (laughs.) Let's try and fill the place. We'll try and do our bit by bringing in exciting players like Mido and Rochemback and we'll try to make the place affordable... but again, if you look back 20 years ago to Ayresome Park it was dropping to bits, with crumbling concrete. Look at the facilities we have now in the concourses.
We take things for granted now, perhaps?
We do, and that's life. But it could just as easily fall apart again and it's our job as Middlesbrough people to try and keep it together and do our best to push the club forward.
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