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Scratch Side Must Sting Spurs

Posted by on September 24, 2007 10:42 PM | 

INJURIES or not, striker light Boro must go for broke at White Hart lane tomorrow night. There must be no weak team, weak mind fudge. It is a game Boro must win.

Gareth Southgate may have a headache up front but dead man walking Martin Jol has far bigger problems as the vultures gather in the boardroom and his disjointed and demoralised side - tipped as Champions League challengers after breaking the bank - languish in the bottom three.


Jol is caught in a Groundhog Day nightmare of recurring votes of confidence and rumours of dressing room rifts hampering his team and heads are down after a shaky start to what was scripted to be a glorious season. There may never be a better time to play sorry Schpursh.

Boro must take advantage of the hapless Hotspurs and go for the jugular in what is arguably the biggest game of the season so far. The League Cup is the most realistic route to the Holy Grail of European football for Boro and the opportunity must not be spurned.

Spurs, in the UEFA Cup themselves, have bigger fish to fry and will possibly field a weakened side through choice. Boro will be forced to put out a patched up one but they can more than make up for the absences by playing with the pace and passion that has been hinted at in flashes so far this term, by showing a snarling no quarter given Lee Cattermole competitive streak and by showing from the off that they want it more.

Southgate will have learned from his time as a player under Steve McClaren and as a rookie boss himself last term against Notts County that if you play a weakened side and take a laissez faire attitude to this competition it will bite you in the bum - but if you graft and get the rub of the green it can soon stack up as a success and open the door to silverware.

He should learn the lesson from Sunderland too: that a side that battles and scraps and stays motivated right to the death can sneak something.

So Boro should approach the game as one that can and must be won. If we lose and then fail to ignite in the coming run of tough Premiership fixtures the season is all but over as a competitive entity before October. Boro urgently need an inspirational display and result to galvanise a season in danger of drifting.

That is not to minimise the problems facing the boss who must come up with an effective system that can hurt Spurs despite having his three first choice strikers crocked - Mido and Tuncay have joined Jeremie Aliadiere on the sidelines - and also without two of his ideal midfield as Gary O'Neil is cup-tied and Julio Arca is facing a long spell out with a knee injury.

And while Southgate got a lucky break with the news that his frontmen are not as badly injured as first thought, the derby day casualties will be sorely missed tomorrow, not least the former Spurs man.

Mido is the focal point of the fluid attacking style that is starting to evolve. His physical presence, his strength on the ball, his industry, his deft touches that link up with midfielders as the break forward are all essential ingredients in the new fast and flowing approach that is being fostered and without him it is not a viable option as there is no-one else in the squad that can play that role as effectively.

Plan B - and there must be one as the club must have factored in that Mido will be away in January for the African Nations Cup and also consider the probability of injuries or bans - has also been scuppered because it will have featured Aliadiere and Tuncay in tandem.

So now Southgate must find an ad hoc system from a pool of players that lacks any real cutting edge as with the best will in the world neither Lee Dong Gook nor Tom Craddock are capable of playing the Mido role.

Lee makes some good runs and has a nice touch but has struggled to cope with the physicality of the Premiership and is routinely monstered by defenders. He has made 14 starts and come off the bench 11 times for Boro in the league and is yet to score. His strength lies in breaking quickly onto balls along the ground and passing first time putting him more in the Aliadiere mould than the Mido one.

And what of Craddock? The prolific reserves striker, 20, like Lee has the knack of making incisive runs but as a one time defender is maybe more used to the robust stuff and has the confidence to go for goal but has had next to no Premiership pitch time. He clocked up eight minutes after coming on as a sub at Fulham on the final day of the 2005-06 season when Boro finished with 11 academy graduates.

Of course, if they are good enough they are old enough - and if they are not good enough you must ask what they are doing at the club - but there is a world of difference between banging them in for the stiffs and doing it on the big stage (just ask Ian Arnold, Nicky Peverell or Danny Graham) and whether the boss will take a risk is to be seen. While kids can sometimes be fearless and play out of their skins there is also the danger that a roasting and a nightmare display may destroy their confidence completely. Think Keith O'Halloran and Derby.

To play the two together up front is a massive leap in the dark too as neither would ideally even start a game but at least it has the advantage of sticking with the shape used this season, spreading the burden of industry up front and also the problems for the Spurs defence and at least they have played together in the reserves.

Southgate may decide that is too much of a gamble and instead make tactical changes. The obvious answer would be to play Boateng on the right, draft Shawky and Cattermole into midfield and play 4-5-1 although again, ideally that requires a hard-working, physical frontman. It may be a case of just picking one and getting them fired up to go out and seize the moment. Cometh the hour cometh the man.

A wild card of throwing David Wheater forward as the targetman has been mooted, indeed Southgate admited he considered if for the second half against Sunderland, but although the big defender has the presence and aerial prowess to cause problems he doesn't have the touch to hold it up and bring others in. Besides it would just leave the defence short too.

A more likely scenario is a 4-4-1-1 with Fabio Rochemback in the hole behind the lone striker, presumably Lee, and getting forward to support him when Boro attack and slotting back into the midfield when under pressure.

But playing one up front or trying to sit back and defend gives the initiative to Spurs and they have the strikers to win the game if they are given the chances so it could be a case of attack being the best form of defence. One option would be to try a 4-3-3 with Stewart Downing and Cattermole advanced up the channels giving an outlet for balls out of defence that take some of the burden off the central striker. That could allow Lee to play to his strengths without being bullied out of the game as he tries to hold it up.

Whatever system the boss chooses the real key will be attitude, workrate and the will to win. The squad should be big enough, experienced enough and hungry enough to cope. They certainly cost enough. Boro must be fired up, scrap for every ball with an almost psychotic zeal and they must crack Spurs' fragile facade. It is a tough task but not an impossible one and victory could light the blue touchpaper on a season that has spluttered so far.

Comments (71)

dave wrote...

I agree, we have to go for it at spurs. Problem is due to poor result this season Southgate will have one eye on the Everton game.

I would hate for us to get knocked of the carling cup this early in the season. It would feel like part of our season is already over. Possibly knock the wind out of our sails.

stay in the carling cup for a few months could help to keep us ticking over in the league.

Posted by: dave  | September 25, 2007 11:24 AM

werdermouth wrote...

AV

The best team to play against spurs is certainly not an easy one to call. I don't think Jol will be thinking about resting players as his plans are definitely short term at the moment.

Going forward spurs have a lot of pace and movement, which is going to be a problem for our leaky defence. Though, defensively they are not too clever either, but we're somewhat short up front (and that's quite literal with Lee).

I think we'll play 4-5-1 with perhaps Downing and O'neil occasionally switching wings so that they can cut inside.

Rocky will be looking to thread balls through to Lee - though i think The Boat will play the holding role with the Catt looking to drive forward without hopefully losing his head.

I agree with you that we need to play a high energy game as sitting back and and waiting for spurs to attack would be fatal - unless of course they decide to play Bent as a lone striker.

BTW: Thank god we got rid of the Yak - it seems a change of club hasn't made him work any harder!

Posted by: werdermouth  | September 25, 2007 11:41 AM

bob wrote...

If lee Dong Gook has made 14 starts for Boro then I'm the Pope's rottweiler.

Posted by: bob  | September 25, 2007 12:28 PM

Nigel wrote...

Yep, the way forward is to get stuck in at Spurs and keep the energy levels up all match, no easy task.

With Woodgate looking unlikely to play it really is going to be a make shift team. Despite my normally optimistic outlook I'm not expecting too much from this game.

Posted by: Nigel  | September 25, 2007 12:42 PM

Chris D wrote...

Spot on AV!

The game v Spurs is a make or break game. Sad to think that the target of Europe could be almost be over for us as early as September!!

Given the slow start and the injuries we have had, the cups seem to be our only hope of getting anywhere near a European place.

Lets hope GS makes the right decisions tomorrow and we really go for it!

Posted by: Chris D  | September 25, 2007 12:55 PM

Ian W wrote...

O'Neill's cup-tied, so no go I'm afraid.

I'd advise trying out Lee and Tom Craddock upfront, with Stephen Thompson on the bench. From what I've seen from Ben Hutchinson, I'd say he isn't near first team quality. Thompson has some pace and agility, also the a finishing touch. Ben H is to clumsy.

Posted by: Ian W  | September 25, 2007 1:03 PM

alf wrote...

Woodgate could do with being dropped anyway.

He hasn't been upto his usual standards. Been caught out a few times and off the pace a little. He needs to step it up if he wants his comments about getting into europe is a must to become a reality.

Posted by: alf  | September 25, 2007 1:23 PM

Chris wrote...

O'Neil can't play, he is cup tied.

Posted by: Chris  | September 25, 2007 2:10 PM

Tom wrote...

Lee has a lot to prove in this country, now he has his chance, get the wingers pushing on to give him as much help as possible. I think Stewy is the key for us. But we need to keep it tight for 30 mins, to give us belief that defeat isn't a formality.

Posted by: Tom  | September 25, 2007 3:30 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

As the match is a one off with no replays we have to go for it anyway. To lose 2-0 with barely a whimper would be a real slap in the chops.

To slink out of the Lane with our tail between our legs would demoralise the fans and players. If they play better than us all well and good, as long as we have given it a go the fans will forgive them.

We have Woodie, Tuncay and Mido out with knocks, O'Neill is cuptied so there are four players 'rested'. Play the strongest team possible from those that are left.

Why should we have doubts about Craddock? We had to play kids when Morrison and McMahon broke into the team with great success in Europe and the premiership. Rooney burst on the scene at 17. Give Craddock his chance because he will run his heart out and it will send a message to the kids that they will get their turn.

Play Lee as well because he will run all night and keep the Spurs defenders honest.

Formation

Swarz
Young, Riggott, Wheater, Taylor
Cat, Boat/Shawky, Rocky, Stewie
Craddock, Lee

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 25, 2007 3:38 PM

dave wrote...

Sorry who did you say was cup-tied?

Posted by: dave  | September 25, 2007 4:17 PM

John Powls wrote...

Alf

Whilst I'd agree that Woody's form hasn't been what we would like this season he is plainly the only one who can inspire the others not to go headless chicken.

I've seen various others centre back combos and those who play well when alongside Woody drop to pieces when played alongside someone else.

I agree with AV's view that whatever the difficulties we can't give this one up. We should play it like all potential underdogs do...and you never know.

My experience of their crowd is that they can be quick to get on the backs of their team if it isn't going well. That's leaving alone the managerial turmoil.

If we can generate some frustration by closing them down and winning the battles all over the pitch, then even sneak a goal from a break or a set piece then.....

I'm going tomorrow night with my lad and taking my boots - I am out of contract and, as Ian often says, I am an awful lot of space to be a waste of! It'll give Gate another option, even if only to reduce Spurs to tears of hilarity while we slot a couple in.

C'mon Boro!

Posted by: John Powls  | September 25, 2007 4:36 PM

Mainy wrote...

I think he will play a weakened team. With the injuries we already have, i dont think he will want to risk anyone else getting hurt, with that said, i think the team will be:

Jones
McMahon, Riggott, Wheater, Taylor
Boateng, Cattermole, Rocky, Downing
LDG, Craddock

Subs: Schwarter, Hines, Hutchinson, Shawky, Grounds.

This would be a mistake, i think he should go for it with a full strength team.

LDG and Craddock have played a few reserve games together with Craddock usually scoring then hutchinson coming on for LDG to score.

Posted by: Mainy  | September 25, 2007 8:00 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

We need to get at them from the kick off and not let them settle. Spurs are fragile these days and it would be "Typical Boro" to let them have their first confidence boost this season!

For me LDG shouldn't even be in the squad and I would quite happily play Craddock with anybody else up front alongside him be it Davies, Mendieta, Hutchinson or even Shawky!

Woody won't be appearing so that leaves Wheater with presumably Riggot alongside, McMahon may make an appearance wide right of midfield if we go with one up front or even Owens making a bow!

Just hope we go at them and don't do the usual too much respect trick.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 25, 2007 9:09 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Mainy

Your team is about right. One technical point is that, by and large, those are the only first team players available. It is a weakened team because there are not many others available.

But that doesnt matter, there is a chance to show the southern press that Boro do exist, that we have players who care and can contribute and we are not a cheque book team. A proud performance is very important.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 25, 2007 10:30 PM

chris harrison wrote...

Well the carling cup was a major cup success when we won, why oh why will southgate not treat it with the respect it warranted when we won the thing.

play our best team, no resting players. they can rest till sunday if they are tired, after all none will be tired if we get to wembley will they??

the fans deserve the team to give it there all, not a half hearted display with half a team of reserves, if we are not interested in winning the cup tell the fans in advance and save them £32 for a ticket and a 520 mile round trip.

c'mon gareth this is our best chance of any success play the best available team and give it 100% and i will be happy if we win 1-0 or get walloped 5-0.

hope a few fans agree with me, the most infuriating thing is when someone is wearing a boro shirt and not giving there all. lets get the job done tomorrow night!!

Posted by: chris harrison  | September 26, 2007 12:52 AM

Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono) wrote...

"Well the carling cup was a major cup success when we won, why oh why will southgate not treat it with the respect it warranted when we won the thing."

Like it or not, at the end of the day it is just a third rate competition that no one really cares about.

The way you lot cling on to the Carling Cup as a "major" trophy and then dont bother to turn up to watch your team play in it this well funny and shows just how small time some of your fans really are.

**AV writes: Ouch!

Posted by: Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono)  | September 26, 2007 8:47 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Welcome back Diablo Rojo. We are so unimportant and you still take time out to comment. Should we be honoured?

Or maybe concerned at the insecurity that drives you to come and post under an assumed name on the message board of such a small club?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 26, 2007 9:24 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Spot on Chris

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 26, 2007 9:25 AM

dave wrote...

For clubs like boro it is the best and easiest way to a trophy. In the early stages the big teams don't take it serious. Get a good draw or 2 and before you know it you are in the semi finals.

Clubs like boro can't afford to take the carling cup lightly. It is not as if we win the fa cup or make the champions league every other season.

We have only ever won 1 cup so really we should be taking the carling cup very serious. A cup run to the semis would give the club a lift and help bring more fans back.

Posted by: dave  | September 26, 2007 10:01 AM

Its fitz wrote...

Now AV hows it going mucker

Firstly was thinkin bout it the other night and i was thinkin same sorta stuff about playing 4-3-3 with downing, catts and lee.

Try it the first half and if its not working the second half put on one of the young lads (ben or tom) and am sure they'll click and and think to themselves "ere, this is me chance ere like, with mido, ali and the tunc out, if i do well now ive got a good chance to be involved in more first team action"

Also i think SG has shot himself in the foot a wee bit by letting morrison go and especially letting johnson go on loan for a few month, do we really have that much depth in wingers we can afford to loan them out, how much eaiser would this game have been if they were here?

Anyways enough ranting, keep up the top notch work AV and try not to have to many sleepless thinking 'what if'.

Posted by: Its fitz  | September 26, 2007 11:40 AM

beeline wrote...

"Well the carling cup was a major cup success when we won, why oh why will southgate not treat it with the respect it warranted when we won the thing."

Do you know something we don't Chris? Save the moans til after the match. I'm looking forward to it.

Posted by: beeline  | September 26, 2007 1:47 PM

werdermouth wrote...

With Woody struggling and the other injuries and O'Neil cup-tied, it looks like the team picks itself.

It had never occurred to me that O'Neil was cup-tied when I posted yesterday - which has got me thinking...

What is the point of players who have been sold being cup-tied? I can understand it for loan players as it prevents other teams sneakily trying to influence another tie - but nobody is going to sell a player in the hope that they will knock out a club they don't want to draw. Neither would a player demand a transfer so that he can continue to play in the cup.

Also players are not league-tied - which is now regarded as a far more important competition - plus the FA frowns upon arrangements that stop a player facing his former club after he has been loaned or transferred.

So can anyone tell what's the point in this rule? Especially as it's only September!

Posted by: werdermouth  | September 26, 2007 2:02 PM

JACK SOUTHALL. wrote...

SUPPORTER FOR 50 YEARS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HONEST WITH MY COMMENTS AFTER WHAT I SEE BE IT GOOD OR BAD.

EVEN WITH A FULL STRENGTH SIDE BORO CANNOT WIN THIS ONE. THERE IS NO PACE WITHIN THE TEAM BESIDES ALI (WHO IS INJURED)TO WORRY A VERY FAST SPURS.

AS FOR STUE DOWNING HE IS VERY GOOD AT PROVIDING A CROSS FIELD PASS BUT HAS NO PACE AND CANNOT DEFEND TO SAVE HIS LIFE. LUKE YOUNG IS NOT FIT OR HAS LOST THE PACE HE HAD A COUPLE OF SEASONS AGO.

THIS WILL BE EVIDENT TONIGHT AS SPURS WILL ATTACK DOWN THE LEFT AND EXPLOIT THE LACK OF PACE. MY GUT FEELING IS THAT WE WILL BE ON THE END OF A GOOD HIDING TONIGHT AS GARETH WILL TRY TO BE SOLID AT THE BACK AND NOT VENTURE TO ATTACK UNTIL THE SECOND HALF WHICH WILL BE TO LATE

Posted by: JACK SOUTHALL.  | September 26, 2007 2:59 PM

Nigel wrote...

Diablo Derek - A question for you , given your disparaging comments about Boro's lack of support, tell me when you last supported your team by going to Old Trafford to watch them......
Go on I've stuck my neck out.......

JACK - Isn't the trick to being a 'fast' team to pass the ball and not dwell on it? Its not just about being a team full of sprinters.

Posted by: Nigel  | September 26, 2007 4:07 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Come on LDG make us all eat humble pie on here tomorrow and bang in a hat trick tonight!

I for one will be delighted to eat my words and have to grovel for forgiveness if you do the business!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 26, 2007 4:10 PM

Malc wrote...

Its Fitz- you lambast Southgate's decision to farm Johnson out on loan totally forgetting that his time at Watford playing first team football could be the making of him as was Stuey's time at the Mackems.

Now, I'd love us to turn over Spurs and we are certainly talented enough. Overall though, I think the game is more important to the under pressure Jol and that will be telling.

I'm glad Woody is being rested as he is our most influential player and the Everton game is far more important. Lets get into Europe via the league and in the process silence all the doubters.

Posted by: Malc  | September 26, 2007 5:58 PM

chris harrison wrote...

beeline it wasen't a moan it was a statement of fact, i can remember us surrenderding the cup at anfield with a second rate team.

it maybe the lowest of the cups to win but there will still be 50000 supporters trying to get there hands on the 25000 allocation we will get if we make it to wembley.

the f.a. cup is always a hard cup to win, the league is outside our expectations so that leaves the carling cup, lets have the best available team playing and have a go.

Posted by: chris harrison  | September 26, 2007 7:15 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Nigel - The tosser from Darlo is best ignored, he should be posting to: www.gloryhunter.com

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 27, 2007 8:58 AM

Its fitz wrote...

Well lets be honest, we all knew it was coming, 2-0 but well done to the lads for the effort in the circumstances (a statement which is getting all to familiar for the boro), but now uve got to try look at the plus sides, at least thats a few less games to worry about.

And malc, i wasnt lambasting SG's decision to loan out johnson because as you say, the experience gained to people like stewy and wheater was invaluable, i was simply stateing the point that we only have one natural wide player in the team in stewy, as not even o'neill is a natural wide player. For team balance, is this right for a club apparently pushing for european places?

Posted by: Its fitz  | September 27, 2007 9:22 AM

Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono) wrote...

Nigel - The tosser from Darlo is best ignored

Oooooooo,I see Mr My Team Has Never Won A Real Cup is getting annoyed. :) Man U got beat by a championship team last night only difference is we aint bothered, it really is the Worthless Cup as it used to be called. It is just an exercise for playing squad players.

By the way Mr won a never cup, I am a season ticket holder at OT and also watch Bury FC , who incidentally have their name on 2 major trophies as compared to your none.


Posted by: Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono)  | September 27, 2007 9:42 AM

Never Happy wrote...

AV - last posting ref: Gloryhunter

I am not getting annoyed just bored by the same monotonous postings from you.

I don't read or post to any Man U sites as I am not interested in your club.

Why if Boro are as bad as you claim are you so interested, is it because you really are a closet Boro fan?

Or is it because you are just a sad get and spend your days trying to convince other teams supporters of how great you think Man U are?

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 27, 2007 11:06 AM

Gazza wrote...

Nice to see Diablo is continuing the "support your local team" ethos.

Diablo Rojo, are you sure you are not a full bodied red who costs £3.99 from Aldi?

Posted by: Gazza  | September 27, 2007 11:31 AM

John Powls wrote...

Last night was dire.

Fitz - 'well done for the effort in the circumstances' just won't do.

That was the only competition we stood any chance in this season and that's gone - not with any sort of bang but with a pathetic whimper. Even that would be an unwarranted complement for what we served up in the first half.

As we've shown in the Prem recently, we can't win when we're playing well (or well-ish) and we are leaking goals at an alarming rate.

Gate says today that he doesn't want losing to become a habit. Well, certainly not - but habit or not, if we carry on as we're going, we should get used to it.

The next few games would have been a challenge even if we were on top of our game and we're far from that.

If we're not to be anchored firmly in the lower reaches by the time we reach mid-November things must change radically or all there'll be to rely on is Ian's oft stated rule that you always pick up some points when you least expect it.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 27, 2007 11:31 AM

Redcar Red wrote...

They say "Fortune favours the brave" and we certainly didn't have a go at Spurs even though their confidence was at the lowest ebb possible.

Despite the injuries I believed our biggest hope was to simply go at them from the start with Craddock up front from kick off.

Our formation and tactics meant it was inevitable that we would eventually be overun as our defence this season is anything but stable.

Its the first time I've ever heard of a 4,1,4,1 team formation being deployed at this level. If the structure of the club from 1st team through to reserves is based around that formation then fine but it isn't and never will be for a good reason - nobody wins anything with tactics like that.

I struggle with the concept that we couldn't play our "youngsters" as they are not ready. Its funny how Arsenal have total belief and confidence in theirs.

The question has to be asked why our squad is so wafer thin in key areas if our reserves are too young at 20 years old. Good job Wayne Rooney never played for the Boro as he would still be waiting for his chance while some useless import occupied the shirt.

One positive was the performance of Brad Jones who I believed to be out of his depth at Premier level but proved us wrong with a brilliant display that prevented a Cricket score in the 1st half alone.

Biggest negative was confirmation that LDG offers nothing at this level of the game. Nice guy but does not even come anywhere near the level of Job, Maccarone and Nemeth etc. he is completely out of his depth regardless of what we are told he does in training. Surely the club should be aiming to improve year on year in each position.

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 27, 2007 11:57 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Missed the match and commentary because I was 'enjoying' a birthday meal with the family.

From what John has told me the fears of an unbalanced 4-5-1 (and I am generous about the one) came home to roost in the first half.

I am a fan who likes Gate but it does appear that he must be close to his pro licence and becoming a fully paid up member of the league managers association. The hallmark of this esteemed group of men appears to be the ingrained belief that if you keep trying something that has been an abject failure in the past you will eventually make it work.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 27, 2007 12:28 PM

John Powls wrote...

Redcar Red

Absolutely agree. It's absolutely no use either the Geee-zette glorying in the fact that we had eight Academy graduates on the pitch at the end if they are being absolutely out-classed - just as it was of no use doing the same at Fulham last season and losing.

Witness Sir Alex's spluttering fury at his youngsters who trashed their own much vaunted reputations by going down tamely to Coventry's journeymen.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 27, 2007 12:34 PM

Nigel wrote...

Diablo Derek (aka Bury Bert) if you're after credibility by posting you support Bury & Man Utd you are wasting your time, we all know what sort of 'supporter' you are.

You haven't answered my question, when were you last at a League Cup game? Alex Ferguson cares about the League cup, he was well peeved last night.

Please keep posting , your posts brighten my day no end!

Posted by: Nigel  | September 27, 2007 12:52 PM

Nigel wrote...

Redcar Red - Spot on, playing 'one up' sends a clear message to both your own team and your opponents - no ambition! It cost us last night.

I also agree that its important to show belief in the youngsters, without belief there is certain defeat.

Posted by: Nigel  | September 27, 2007 12:58 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Redcar Red – When GS’ first choice 11 is available Boro are at least able to compete, but for all the talk of our academy GS obviously believes that most the players are not of PL ability.

The academy can be classed as successful if one player per season can make the step up, however due to the lack of spending there is no strength in depth at the club.

As you posted age is no barrier if a player is good enough, I fear however that many of the academy players will not be.

Keith Lamb promised us a team that we deserve and last night might be a glimpse of what we can come to expect.

Spending £12m net in the summer puts Boro amongst the lower buyers over the summer. Championship spending to go along with championship crowds, where will it end?

Not many positives to take from last nights game despite the drivel spouted by GS afterwards.

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 27, 2007 1:06 PM

Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono) wrote...

"You haven't answered my question, when were you last at a League Cup game? "

Last league/worthless/milk/couldn't careless cup match I went to was last night sweetums! Thank god I dont have do another micky mouse cup match this season.

See yer!

Posted by: Diablo Rojo (Costa de la Darlingtono)  | September 27, 2007 1:09 PM

Si wrote...

Everyone

From what I saw on Saturday at the Riverside, the promise was there - but then came injuries, Liam Miller's goal and last night. A reality check if there ever was one.

Even then, we still could have forced extra time - but this team just does not have a cutting edge up front! Spurs have an embarrassment of riches up front - even Defoe and Darren Bent can't get in the team because Berbatov and Keane are just too good.

And all four are natural finishers, a la Shearer, not predominant playmakers, a la Rooney/Tevez. The latter kind of player is better at making runs into the box and setting up goals as opposed to just sticking it in the back of the net.

Bit like Liverpool's forwards - for all their quality up front - Torres, Voronin, Crouch and Kuyt - I reckon Torres is the only out and out goalscorer they have. United only have one natural finisher in Saha.

Yet they have enough quality elsewhere to atone for this. I'm not so sure we do. Our only proven natural finisher is Mido. Aliadiere and Tuncay still need to learn how to finish, and Lee - I'm sorry to say - is looking like a truly lost cause.

I guess we can't do worse than give Craddock more chances...

Posted by: Si  | September 27, 2007 1:48 PM

Andy wrote...

'Having a go' at teams leaves gaps to be expoited.

Yes we all want to see it, me included, but the second half when we 'had a go' was really no better than the first when we didn't.

I went along never expecting to see what was basically a full strength Spurs team, touted by many before the season started as Champions League contenders, get beaten by a Boro side shorn of 5 first team regulars.

At our strongest we are viewed as relegation candidates. Agreed, it was as good a time as any to play them but we have been beaten soundly at WHL in the past couple of seasons with a full strength side

'Having a go' is great if you have the personnel to do it with. Last night, I dont think we had. Daft thing is, but for Rigs missed sitter, and an offside going against us, the plan might well have come off. Fulham aside, luck this season has deserted us.

The first 11 is fine and I like what Gate is trying to do. My concern, like others, is that lack of points over the next month results in a change in style to 'being hard to beat', to the chagrain of the fans and the detriment of crowds.

Even with the concerns over the forward line, it is the 'other end' where the problems appear to lie. In my opinion, Boat or Catts must play alongside Rocky to offer more defensively.

Posted by: Andy  | September 27, 2007 1:54 PM

dave wrote...

Its like a breath of fresh air to see southgate get the team playing like keegan did with newcastle. The game is too tactical these days and becomes dull. The only down side are games become more open and we are at risk of heavy defeats.

Posted by: dave  | September 27, 2007 3:33 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Andy

Didnt see the match, had to rely on second hand information and from what you are saying the second half was no better than the first.

I agree totally you cannot go headlong at the opposing team like kids in a playground. Giving it a go doesnt have to be a reckless assault.

With the players we had available having Simba up front on his own would lead you the think the ball would just keep coming back.

With the midfield packed with holding players and not much of an outlet you would think the same thing would happen.

We might get away with 451 with Mido fit, Downing and ONeill wide, plus Tuncay or Aliadiere linking midfield with Mido. May also get away with it with Boat and Cat holding with Rocky giving the creative impetus.


I heard the team before the match and I didnt like it because it looked like we would be surrendering the iniative immediately. By all accounts that is what happened. From the accounts I heard we were much better at the start of the second half until they scored.

Still, as the saying goes we can concentrate on the league. Hopefully we will have players back come Sunday.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 27, 2007 4:19 PM

Cyril Knowitalls wrote...

The problem with the present Boro team is simple. The midfield are good attackers but garbage defenders.

That is why the defence is always being left exposed and that is why we are letting too many goals in.

Posted by: Cyril Knowitalls  | September 27, 2007 5:02 PM

David Sutherst wrote...

Another man of the match performance by Brad Jones
but will he take Scwarzer's place on sunday? I doubt it.

When Southgate says Scwarzer is one of the best in the premiership i have to seriously question his judgement. His agent is constantly telling us clubs like Bayern Munich are after him but the last time he spat his dummy out only Bradford showed any interest,and only on loan.

His ratio of shots saved to shots on target is by far the worst in the premiership. I am sick of the times i hear people say 'They only had two shots on target,and they both went in'.

Sunderland's first was scored by a player who probably won't score again all season but Scwarzer made it easy for him by rushing out and diving to his right and all Leadbitter had to do was get a half decent connection.

Until we get rid of Scwarzer we will continue to struggle because he is costimg us 15 to 20 points a season and i am not sure he really cares because of his contract situation.

Posted by: David Sutherst  | September 27, 2007 5:57 PM

Andy wrote...

Ian, personally I have no problem with 4-5-1 provided the 2 wide men are wingers and get forward in support.

Played properly and with the right personnel, 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 going forward is fine. I agree with you that we now, at last, have the players (when fit) to play it effectively.

Accepted, packing the midfield with holding players is usually asking for trouble and, try as he might, Catts is a holding player which obviously affected the balance last night. What it did show is that the right sided issue has not gone away if Gario isn't available.

The start of the second half was better but I think it was the element of surprise from changing formation that temporarily at least, give them something different to think about. D-G L is not a bad player; he is just lightweight and gets 'monstered' by opposition defenders.

With what we had available, I dont think we had many, if any other options.

Posted by: Andy  | September 27, 2007 5:59 PM

Mainy wrote...

defo offside as he ran towards ball before changing run and cut accross taylor. no goal so should be a 1-0 defeat not 2.

Rocky was rubbish in challange for 2nd and should be shot.

DGL was only mentioned twice in the game and both times they were confirming what the team was. complete waste of space.

**AV writes: "Should be shot?" And I thought I was harsh!

Posted by: Mainy  | September 27, 2007 6:23 PM

Malc wrote...

David Suthirst- you say Jones produced "another" mom performance. Isn't this the same butter fingers that nearly cost us the UEFA semi against Steaeu?

However, you are right on Schwarzer. Bad attitude and even worse hands. Lets get Sorensen or Jaaskelainen in as their contracts are coming up too and they love it "up Norf."

Posted by: Malc  | September 28, 2007 12:01 AM

phil ex warrenby wrote...

What a sad lot of comments!they did'nt play that bad did they?Honest with all the stars out with injury or cup tied, the result was'nt that bad. Did anybody expect a good one?

I'm not conviced luke young is the answer at right back the sooner McMahon is back in the side the better for me. till then Davies seems a better alternative he has'nt let us down so far, Young gets caught out of position too often.

Till the big guns are fit again Iwould like to see Craddock and D G Lee given a afew starts together---according to Brad Jones Lee had a good game and tried his heart out.

Each time he's been on the park its been with different personel around him or asked to play in a makeshift role in accomodating for injuries to someone. The season has a long way to go.So be patient.

Posted by: phil ex warrenby  | September 28, 2007 12:27 AM

John Powls wrote...

To say Brad Jones was our M O M the other night is not saying much. I thought Wheats was, myself.

Jones certainly made some fine saves but was too easily beaten at the near post for their first. Again, he wasn't alone in being too easily beaten.

My beef with Jones is that, like a lot of very average goalies (which is all he is) he can be a very effective shot stopper when it comes to the Hollywood stuff but he is far from sound on all the rest of his game and is prones to gaffes too. He has little in the way of 'presence' between the sticks.

The result is he inspires no confidence in those around him either and makes the whole defence shaky.

He's not the answer to replace Eddie Scissorhands. We need to dip into the transfer market in January for that.

Posted by: John Powls  | September 28, 2007 8:42 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Andy

I agree and disagree. Yes 451 can be very effective with the right players.

But an outbreak of square pegism (thanks JP) is not the answer to the problem with the players we had available. Luckily I cant be accused of hindsight, the topic has been discussed before.

Whatever formation we played we were likely to lose against a full strength side. So the choice is how to deploy what you have. If you put three holding midfield players in the team all you will do is give the opposition licence to attack at will with nothing to keep their midfield and defence honest. To then play someone as lone striker who hasnt the physical presence to make the role work is grossly unfair on him and the team.

I like Gate and think the players we have brought in will provide good football and the points we need. But, I would have criticised Mac for such a formation and tactics and would be part of a huge number of fans doing so, like his shocking tactics at Arsenal when we got drubbed. We debated on here the perils of going to Spurs and using the tactics and formation he eventually used. In all honesty, I cant sit here and say nothing.

What I do hope is that as Gate keeps saying he has learnt from it. Sunday is another match with hopefully most of the squad available. Lets get something out of it.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 28, 2007 9:16 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Ian - GS has said that his intention is to play attacking football, which we have all asked for on this blog.

The team have showed promise this season, especially at home. If the first eleven are to play high paced attacking football, then surely the rest of the clubs teams should be playing the same system.

Then any player who comes into the first team should be ready to step up to the mark.

Our only hope against Spurs was to attack them, however GS resorted to a failed system and gave the iniative away from the word go.

Regardless of who is available on Sunday GS must be more positive. If we invite pressure from Everton we will lose.

At least O'Neill will be back in the team and so the midfield will be more balanced.

On the goalkeeping debate, if the Skunks go for Jasskelainen, Boro should go for Harper or Given.

C'Mon Boro

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 28, 2007 10:09 AM

samallen wrote...

SOUTHGATE OUT ---- THE SOONER THE BETTER

I cannot believe that this man was ever let loose at the boro. Hes a real shocker. No experience of anykind with just a few half baked fa blue peter style badges to go on.

Why cant we ever get a proper manager instead of hiring these utter rookies? We have a striker problem but who is it who said lee was amazing during his trial - southgate did. We lost vids binned yak and replaced them with who exactly ? Give me fowler any day of the week over what we have now.

All southgates doing yet again. Time after time we get beat and all we ever here is how the lads will learn from this or how much character they showed. All im waiting for now is for him to start saying magnificent. Do me a favour.

How long will it take the lads to learn? Unlike many blind people here i just dont see any reason for optimism or any sign that southgate has got the faintest clue what hes doing. He got rid of morrisson and replaced him with who exactly ?

The Boat !!!!!!!!!!!!!! My god if this is the best we can do on the right wing then were sunk. Sorry guys but SOUTHGATE OUT. sam

Posted by: samallen  | September 28, 2007 10:44 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Never Happy

My point entirely, made even worse by the fact we predicted that it wouldnt work and it hasnt worked in the past so why would it work this time?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 28, 2007 11:00 AM

dave wrote...

It would have been about 5-0 without brad jones playing well. Wheater had a decent game, he can handle the high balls all day but his marking and gets pulled out of position sometimes is a bit suspect. Hopefully that will improve with expereince

Posted by: dave  | September 28, 2007 11:09 AM

Kenny Holgate wrote...

Despite our dodgy start, I cant see us being beaten anymore this season!

Posted by: Kenny Holgate  | September 28, 2007 11:16 AM

Never Happy wrote...

Sam - Morrison out, Gary O'Neill in.

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 28, 2007 12:10 PM

Nigel wrote...

To echo other posts, we must be positive on Sunday and attack Everton, if we play 451 again we are dead and buried before we start. If we start with attacking intent we have a chance of making Everton a little more cautious.

samallen - fowler in!!? You should be sacked from this blog for even thinking of the idea.

Nigel 'The Blind Optimist' Reeve

Posted by: Nigel  | September 28, 2007 1:03 PM

Chris D wrote...

Kenny - "Despite our dodgy start, I cant see us being beaten anymore this season!"

I wish I could have your confidence, but as hard as I try, the more I see the less confident I get.

Because of our dodgy start, I can't see us winning many more this season!!!!!

Posted by: Chris D  | September 28, 2007 1:14 PM

tonyblack wrote...

Sam, as much as I totally and utterly agree with you about southgate being in charge, the fact of the matter is that he has the full backing of Steve Gibson and so we have to accept that he's there for some time, get behind him in a constructive way, and hope that we get proved wrong.

The last thing we want is for people to start booing him or the team as this is just counter productive, especially at this stage of the season. Fair enough, if this was towards the end and we were in the midsts of going down, then I think that these questions would be more acceptable.

But for now I personally think that we have to accept that he and his team are there, and that they are in fact rebulding things, and that they will take the club forwards.

It does worry me though that southgate and all his team can be so sure and rave on about people when they are on trial, only for them to be the total opposite after they sign. Perhaps we should look at how we analyze and view people that are on trial ?

If Mr Lee was not immediately big and strong enough to cope with the demands of the Premiership then why did we buy him ? Do we have the luxury of the time that is required to then develop him, or others ? I think not and would much rather do that with the academy players. It's pointless the club then releasing press statements staying that, " Gym'll Fix It For Lee " as this just shows that he should never have been bought in the first place.

I think that these are valid, reasonable, and constructive questions that should be asked, rather than just calling for Southgate to get the bullit with that kind of hard language.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 28, 2007 1:32 PM

robin mitton wrote...

Anthony,

In the interests of harmony can I through you humbly submit our application to Chairman Lamb for the posts of twin Managing Directors of the club?


Dear Chairman Lamb,

We apply in writing for the posts of twin Managing Director's. Your munificience may be excited to know that we have been running Sunday league football in the Salamanca region of Spain very successfully for a number of years now.

In fact the number 1 pub team we have been managing El Toro Loco (The Crazy Bull) the pressure from running which nearly left us without a home but anyway we succeeded in being promoted from 3A Division to 3 Division which was a major milestone or even a millstone around our necks depending on how one might view it.

We did not change any tactics of this pub team or improve it in any way, shape or form. We simply (and this is the clever bit) followed the best City tradition of simply getting the most money out of this already impoverished club without improving anything one iota. Isn't that brilliant?

How did we manage to do it? Well we believe in God Almighty who is always at hand to help poor sinners and rascals like ourselves. No wonder our favourite hymn says it all "Amazing Grace!" which we sing with great fervour every Sunday.

Therefore we promise to bring God with us to help us in our endevours to transform the club with the help of your management and of course the Holy Spirit and any other Gods or Godesses at hand.

To demonstrate our good faith we are prepared to jump from any building in the town and have God save us from injuries in front of the whole press if necessary.

We hope our application will be considered although even though we employ what to the world of soccer what might be thought of as eccentric methodologies.

We remain your kindly servants always,

Robin & Juan
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS Ltd

Posted by: robin mitton  | September 28, 2007 2:20 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Tony - DGL should never have been bought by the club, he is the Korean equivalent of Maccarone.

Looking on the bright side, he only has a short contract and only cost a fraction of what Maccarone did.

Posted by: Never Happy  | September 28, 2007 2:29 PM

beeline wrote...

" If Mr Lee was not immediately big and strong enough to cope with the demands of the Premiership then why did we buy him ? "

He was bought somebody with potential, a gamble if you like, a case of suck it and see and a backup 3rd/4th choice - remember we still had Viduka and Yakubu at the time, and remember that he cost very little. I dare say that even Southgate would have never envisaged having to play him as a single striker.

Well, now he knows that he can't hack it and unless there's a sudden massive improvement, the gamble has failed, but like all gambles it could have gone the other way - look at Arca.

We are a small club with limited resources who have to take a chance in an increasingly competitive market. We just cannot afford to buy more than the occasional ready-made product, and that can equally apply to managers.

Posted by: beeline  | September 28, 2007 2:45 PM

Nigel wrote...

TB I think you make a good point about how 'trialists' are viewed, equally importantly is how they are 'sold' to the fans.

GS made a mistake in 'bigging up' DGL, he should have been more circumspect. As much as I would like to see him (DGL) thrive and be a success, its hard to imagine at the moment.

Posted by: Nigel  | September 28, 2007 3:08 PM

Andy wrote...

Fair enough Ian, but the problem is still without Gario there is still no answer to the RHS problem. Who to play there on Wednesday; not obvious to me I must say.Gate sees 'em in training and knows better than anyone of us well-meaning amateurs who is capable of what.

Sure, I disagree with some of his decisions, and many would say he got it wrong. I would say with what was available any other outcome was exceedingly unlikely.

The use of 4-5-1 is a trend which is gathering pace in the Prem due to Managers being overwhelmed by the fear factor that ultimately is relegation. The onus is often on not losing rather than winning.

Anyway, lets move on and hope for a point or 3 on Sunday.

**AV writes: Congrats on the 5,000th comment posted on the blog!

Posted by: Andy  | September 28, 2007 3:56 PM

tonyblack wrote...

" Tony - DGL should never have been bought by the club, he is the Korean equivalent of Maccarone.

Looking on the bright side, he only has a short contract and only cost a fraction of what Maccarone did. "

We won't start this whole debate AGAIN, and you won't be surprised to find that I don't agree as I'm firmly on the side of those who say he didn't have a fair go here, and you are not, which is fair enough.

But just to make the point that Maccarone went back to Italy last year and in the 11 games he played he had a better goal per game ratio than Viduka did here.

You may not rate him, and again, that's fair enough, but to compare him to Mr Lee is an absolute joke.

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | September 28, 2007 3:58 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Nigel

You could play 451 and be positive if you have attacking talents in midfield and send them out to play in the right manner.

A middle five of O'Neill, Rocky, Tuncay, Boat, Downing with Mido upfront would work unlike the line up on Wednesday. It is the players aptitudes and attitudes that make a formation work.

It is likely we will play Tuncay in a floating role a bit like Rooney and allow O'Neill and Downing to bomb on as required.

The main thing is to have some shape and an outlet other than just Downing.

As for the Gate out debate, well that is dead in the water because Gibbo picked him and will stick by him. He is moving in the right direction, my criticisms are when he occasionaly reverts to MacClarenesque tactics and/or Managerspeak.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | September 28, 2007 4:00 PM

Redcar Red wrote...

Regardless of our current situation I think we should be behind GS 100%. The current situation is not entirely of his making and without a shred of doubt he cares deeply about the club and the supporters.

Yes we were hoping for a "big name" manager but take for example Martin O'Neil who has hardly brightened up the Villains, in fact with hindsight I'm glad we got Gareth and not O'Neil! At least we have the hope that Gareth will become more astute and worldly wise whilst O'Neil is looking a bit of a spent force bereft of ideas in the management dept at the moment.

I doubt if the decision to award LDG a contract was Gareth's alone. LDG looks to have a degree of technical ability which may have appeared impressive at Hurworth but he lacks the skill and aptitude for top level combatative football.

I think the club should have had enough acumen and experience to have sensed this before even wasting Gareth's time. Can you imagine someone applying for a job at Bulkhaul as a driver without a driving licence even getting close to an interview with the transport manager?

On a different level there does not seem to be a blueprint (e.g. Arsenal) on how the club is developing tactically on the pitch. And subsequently this being cascaded down through the club at all levels.

The Youth set up for instance has been in place since Robbo's time, yet tactically we have been at a loss for years as to where Mac was taking us. We cannot lay the blame for this at a Rookie manager's door.

He has made some very tough decisions disposing of former team mates like Ugo for instance and had to cope with losing two strikers in Viduka (who had financially crippling wage demands and as such was a Director level decision) and Yak (who stopped playing for the club 9 months ago and had done exactly the same at Pompey previously under the very experienced Harry Redknapp).

Additionally his decision to let JFH leave was the right one considering how Jimmy subsequently failed to do the business and hold down a place in a dire Charlton team and is now plying his trade at Cardiff.

Tactically on Tuesday most of us on here called it right in saying that we needed to unsettle Spurs rather than let them build up confidence. Gareth obviously felt that caution was a better option and that he could nick it perhaps in extra time or take it to penalties.

Hindsight and experience is what gives us knowledge and I'm sure that Gareth has taken all of this on board which is more than I can say for the previous incumbent.

Lets get behind him, remember when he used to punch the air at the end of a victory with the fans cheering in unison, I don't think his passion or personality has suddenly altered because he has now become the Manager.

The higher level infrastructure of the club has failed on more than one issue of late (pricing, kit, badge, century radio and general PR). Gareth has to work under the same creaking administration and right now needs all the support he can get and all the support we can muster!

Posted by: Redcar Red  | September 28, 2007 5:02 PM

Very Happy wrote...

samallen

I see you are another goon who is pre-judging GS, before he has had the chance to get his act going, and the chance to ride his luck.

Just get behind the lads and a manager they all highly respect and shut up whinging. The effort this season from everyone behind the team, has given everyone something to smile about.

So take that on board and let’s hope the YAK performs like he did for us, because that means the Toffee Apples will have only ten men, if he starts that is!

We are now at a stage in the season, where we need to strengthen our voices and fill the ground, because no-one can deny that another Reading will end up at the Riverside.

So, good fortune to the lads today and if we get something out of the game then point taken!!!

Posted by: Very Happy  | September 30, 2007 11:25 AM

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