Derby "Banter" Is Beyond The Pale
SOME THINGS transcend the petty parochial squabbling of football rivalries. Whatever team you support and however passionately you express it, most people are still bound by the norms of society and the same moral spectrum that guides everyday life.
Only the foaming zealots fail to see that fans on the other side of the segregation lines are basically the same as them. Only the real hardcore idiots really believe the opposition are dehumanised scum and that anything goes. Only the ignorant dregs of humanity believe that being at a football match means you can set aside civilised standards of behaviour and have free licence to indulge in the basest of offensive behaviour.
You know, the kind who sing that someone is “a paedo� and think it is incredibly witty.
It was a derby match and so a certain level of earthy exchanges were to be expected. Boro fans for instance booed Mark Viduka as they reduced the emotional and financial wrangling of the heavyweight Aussie's long-running contract negotiations and subsequent choice of Newcastle as his future employers to the succint phrase: "You're just a fat greedy bastard". The visitors responded by pointing out Julio Arca's previous allegiance to Sunderland in a similar shorthand and added some barbs about empty seats. Fair enough, that is what you expect in the to and fro of matchday rivallry.
But beyond that, indeed beyond the pale, was something more sinister and far harder to sell as just robust derby humour. The baser elements of the travelling support had opted to target Mido, especially after they tumbled that his name rhymed with 'paedo' and so gave them the chance wheel out their tired and sick poison pen picture of Boro fans and twist a nasty knife. I was told later that the knuckle-dragging chorus of hate was clear as day on Setanta's coverage, which is tricky for the new broadcaster's bid to build a Sunday lunchtime armchair audience.
To that despicable slur you can add an element of gutter racist stereotyping with chants that Mido was 'a terrorist' and 'a shoebomber'. No wonder he celebrated so passionately and so pointedly in front of them when he scored. True, that it is a reflection of a dark undercurrent of Islamophobia that bubbles up through the tabloids and is present in pubs and clubs across the land rather than something formented specifically on the terraces but it is still indicative of the mentality at work here. Later in the game a female camera assistant had the misfortune to walk in front of the Geordie fans and was loudly entreated to "get your tits out for the lads". It was like being back in the Dark Ages.
The most shocking development was that the baseless sexual slurs long thrown at Boro fans collectively as a kind of malicious white noise on derby dfays became sharply focussed on one individual. That they had a specific target - and as he had a red shirt on, it seemed a legitimate one - intensified the hate to the point where even a press box normally insulated from the dynamics of the crowd were galvanised.
To her credit Louise Taylor in the the Guardian led their match report with a condemnation of the bile, the Daily Mirror made a special mention of it, and The Sun went big on the 'bomb' taunts.
But how could they not? The sight of phlegm-flecked faces contorted in hate and hurling invective at a stranger was disturbing. It was as crass, stupid, socially backward and morally bankrupt as throwing bananas and making monkey-noises at black players ever was.
And just as racism was back in the dark ages, it will be defended by the perpetrators as being “just banter�. Already the internet message boards are buzzing with indignant Geordies justifying the chanting or trying mitigating it by pointing out that Boro fans are no angels and that a section of the Riverside crowd gave Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble a verbal mauling in the aftermath of the sleazy London hotel 'roasting' scandal three years ago so somehow the whole Boro crowd have 'asked for it'. That is a demonstration of exactly the kind of short-sighted moral equivilence that underpins indescriminate attacks on the innocent by hooligans and tit-for-tat sectarian violence across the globe.
But this goes far beyond banter - and beyond the pale. It is just about the most offensive thing you can think of and to make it a calculated set-piece within your repertoire plumbs new depths. What kind of person thinks smearing people with most horrific crimes against children imaginable passes as 'just banter' and anyone who is offended should ‘lighten up’?
It is lower than the Munich chants directed at Manchester United by Leeds fans and right down there with Chelsea or Arsenal fans hissing in imitation of Zyklon B and singing about Auschwitz when they play Spurs.
Many angry Boro fans have asked the Gazette over the years why the police take no action on this outrageously insulting behaviour which far from fading seems to be growing in volume and intensity and is increasingly creating friction and the potential for confrontation.
Racist chanting at football is a criminal offense and is dealt with vigorously, and rightly so. Derby games are heavily policed because of the potential for disorder. In recent years there have even been warnings that visitors wearing smogsuits to the Riverside will be regarded as a provocation and treated as a public order offence.
Yet here we have a clear breach of the Public Order Act going unpunished. It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour. The law is used to arrest demonstrators chanting empty political slogans at faceless corporations and states so why shouldn't be used to stop this grossly offensive chanting that insults and abuses individuals and creates atmosphere calculated to cause confrontation.
A few arrests may sharpen minds and make some reconsider their behaviour although many of the worst offenders would become more bitter, would see it as Boro failing to have a sense of humour and redouble their efforts the wind us up. Indeed, there is the danger it coudl spread to other sets of opposing fans not yet initiated into this dark mentality .
Ultimately though, as with racism, this will not be changed by prosecutions. If anything they will just raise the stakes. These vile chants will only end when there is a cultural sea-change among supporters at Newcastle - and Sunderland and Leeds too - who find it an acceptable and entertaining aspect part of derby banter.
The fight against racism in football did not come from above. If anything the authorities - the clubs, the FA, the police - tried their best to ignore the chanting, hoping it would go away.
The campaign against racism stemmed from decent, articulate, socially responsible fans standing up to against the idiots within their own crowd, through agitation from the fanzine movement and from grassroots organistions like the Football Supporters' Association demanding that the clubs took action.
And that is what is needed here. It is down to decent Newcastle fans to stand up and insist that this behaviour is unacceptable and like the racist chanting it must stop. The bulk of Newcastle fans are no different from any other crowd. There will be decent respectable, socially aware Newcastle fans who will be mortified by this chanting and who will be thoroughly embarrassed at the way the idiots portray the club, the fans and their home town.
They must act. Silence on this issue gives the green light to the mindless idiots to continue their twisted malice. The fanzines and internet forums must condemn this publicly and start a debate within their fans and local media over what is acceptable banter and what is grossly offensive. It is down to fans to draw the line and police it themselves.
The club should condemn such it publicly too. Newcastle owner Mike Ashley was sat at the Riverside in his replica shirt, identifying himself with his new audience. He must have heard it. It was unavoidable. If not he must have read the shocked reports of the chants in the national press. Surely he must have an opinion on the potential damage such moronic behaviour does to his expensively purchased new brand?
"We had to get him to calm down a bit in the first half," Gareth Southgate said later when quizzed about Mido running the gauntlet of hate. “I always find it strange that 3,000 people are allowed to abuse one person and nothing’s done and when the boot is on the other foot, he gets in trouble. In terms of civil liberties, I find that a strange situation.�
He added that the club have no plans to make an official complaint. They should. Like the battle against racism, it has to start somewhere and a complaint may force Newcastle into the bout of soul searching that is so clearly demanded.
THE GAME offered compelling evidence that fans should sometimes just keep their gobs shut.
Just as there was a righteous poetic justice about Mido scoring for Boro to respond in style to the black and white barracking so after all the taunting from his former faithful there was an air of inevitability about Viduka scoring for Newcastle.
And Boro's second leveller also came from a player who had every right to feel stung into action by the ill-advised visiting taunts. Julio Arca had twice been loudly lambasted as a "sad mackem bastard" but had the last laugh as he delighfully swept home from the edge of a crowded box.
If only they had picked on Woodgate too Boro may have taken all the points.
Older/Newer
« BREAKING NEWS - YAKUBU | Deadline Day Transfer Watch.... »
81 Comments
Leave a comment
Profile
Anthony Vickers
Keep up to date
Follow Untypical Boro on
Great to see the lads come back from a goal down
Twice!!
Southgate has them playing with belief in each other, and at last we are stringing together more than one pass before losing /giving the ball away.
I still dont know how we lost that game to B/burn,but how much easier is it to accept than the woeful effort's we were subjected to under the numbing style of the current England coach.
We may not set the world on fire this year, but I'm sure we will see better games than in the past couple of years
talking league wise of course, It would be hard to top the Eaufa cup games would'nt it.
It was interesting that Gibbo started off the banter with a measured volley - claiming Viduka's agent made it clear last xmas that it was only about money and demanding the equivalent of half the Riverside gate money over three years (Can you do the sums for us AV?) - adding he was overpriced for a player who only averages 8 goals per season (Ouch!)
Anyway, Mido looks like he could fill Viduka's boots - both in stature and skill - plus I like his attitude and confidence, which will only benefit others players.
The other interesting thing was playing Arca and Rocky in the centre and pushing the Boat out onto the right - presumably this is aimed at keeping the ball and creating attacks. So if we finally get a right-sided player does this signal the end for the Boat?
Overall I think the Gate is starting to make progress in bringing the style of play he desires - so let's see what happens before the window closes.
Singing "naughty" songs is wrong but I dont remember Boro fans being all PC when it came to singing songs about "a town full of rapists" a few years back.
You lot have very selective memories and you tend to use and forget facts when it suits you. Perhaps you should sort your own fans out first before moaning about others.
**AV writes: At the time I DID condemn the chanting from some Boro fans because I believe was wrong to make such a nasty allegation on the basis of baseles tabloid smears that go beyond banter and also because I predicted it would be used in future by the knuckle-heads to justify their twisted fascination with this very subject.
You are right though, it is IS down to teams sorting their own fans out. When are decent Newcastle fans, the club itself and the local press on Tyneside going to speak out and condemn this chanting instead of making excuses?
Anthony, thank you for highlighting this aspect of yesterday's game.
Over the years we have come to expect the pathetic, inane reference to 'paedos' from some of the barcode fans but the anti-Islamic racist chanting during yesterday's game was truly appalling and should not be tolerated.
Sitting in the South-West corner, we heard every sordid word. I spoke to the senior steward in our section (who had already conferred with the police about it) at the half-time interval and was advised to complain directly to the club safety officer, Ron Turnbull.
As there were 3000 Newcastle fans and insufficient police/stewards to deal with the large number of people involved in the racist chanting, it was understandable that nothing could be done on the day.
I have written to Ron Turnbull and to Steve Gibson as I feel so strongly about this. If sufficient fans do likewise then perhaps something can be done to avoid such unacceptable barracking in the future.
We should not and must not let this matter lie!
We have had our problems in the past, but our act has been cleaned up.
What the geordies sang was clear racism and should be acted on. The club shoud be putting in an official complaint.
I am sure if the boot was on the other foot.... I would also expect somebody from their club to publicly condemn it.
If Rangers are punished for similar things, then why not the Geordies.
Believe it or not, Tottenham fans used to shout 'shoe, shoe, shoebomber' at Mido as if it was some kind of sick compliment.
Ridding the game of these kind of chants won't be easy and it is the responsibility of not only the clubs, but of the fans that sit around these imbeciles and turn a blind eye.
The media could play an important role in highlighting the seedy problems that exist on a wider scale. Perhaps The Gazette could set the ball rolling with a campaign against these slurs.
**AV writes: Perhaps the Chronicle could because it is down to Newcastle - the fans, the club and their media - to change this aspect of their terrace culture.
The FA and the premier league really should step in and ban their fans for a few games but guess what the kickitout website is down!
Funny how the boro chanted "Shoe bomber" and "I can hear ticking" while mido was a spurs player.
Get of your high horse.
**AV writes: Again we hear this "he said, she said", "they started it", "everyone else does it," "Boro are just as bad".
Look, two wrongs don't make a right and pointing out the faults in others doesn't make you exempt from normal standards of social decency.
It is down to individual fans to tackle the problems at their clubs. If Boro fans did chant that at Mido I would condemn it unreservedly. Will you condemn the Newcastle fans who engage in the 'paedo' chants? If you don't then you don't have the moral credibility to debate the issue.
UEFA has threatned to throw clubs and countries out of its tournaments for racist chants like those heard from the geordies yesterday.
The premier league has to also get its house in order - dock points from them or relegate teams to the conference We have to make a stand.
Well said, Vic
You do realise that the whole country is laughing at us due to this reaction, What is said at football is not to be taken seriously.
What the Newcastle fans were chanting is no worse that what Boro fans sing at other people but its a different take on it.
IS calling someone a terrorist or a peadophile worse than singling someone out for being Homosexual? Boro sang that at Robbie Savage and at any London team, is it as bad as calling someone a cheat or a rapist.
All of those sang by boro fans are wrong. Boro dish this out but cannot take a different spin on it directed back at them
**AV writes: "What is said at football is not to be taken seriously." On the contrary. That line would not stand up in a court. Football can not be above the law nor can it be exempt from social norms.
Are you saying an individual directing a stream of vile racist filth at an individual should be beyond action because it is in a football ground? Surely not.
Somethings are just wrong no matter where or when.
Strange how the Newcastle fans can't seem to grasp that it is exactly this sort of thing that helps ensure a reduction in ticket allocation - the very thing they bleat loudly about.
I agree with everything you say,it was disgusting, although in the east stand I could only hear "Mido" being shouted by Newcastle supporters and wondered why.
All clubs,including Boro have their knuckle scraping minority, people whose lives are so mediocre, unfulfilled and sad that they feel the need to be part of a group of like minded thickos;look at the NF type membership.
However,I dont think these things can be dealt with in isolation. Football in some respects is a mirror of society.
The referee must have been aware of what Mido was suffering, yet he chose to punish him for his mild retalliation and its not good enough to say the ref had no choice and rules is rules.
When I left the stadium and passed where Newcastle coaches were parked, there was a large police presence, all wearing protective clothing. Why could police and stewards not have brought these into the Newcastle end during the game?
Also, if we all have to take some responsibility, why did Mr Paylor give the ref such a good score; its not good enough to say he was marking th ref on his handling of the game. I dont sisingle Eric out in particular, but it seems to me people not being prepared to put their heads above the parapet.
Lastly, the none goal scored by Fulham last week
again highlighted the need for touchline technology when available to be used in such contoversial cases.
However, we all forget that the one person above all who Knew without any doubt that it was a goal was;;yes you may have guessed it, our own Mark Shwartzer.Now what would we supprters, the press and the club executive have said had the Aussie put his hands up?
.
PS At least it was pleasing in todays press that Gareth Southgate has questioned why one man, Mido, is punished for his behaviour when many more Newcastle fans were not. Funny old game,aint it AV?
Cmon Boro
AV writes: The nature of his job means Eric is totally focused on what is happening on the pitch and over the years he has learned to ignore the background noise and activity so he can concentrate on the game.
The nature of my job means I look at the bigger picture and take on board all the dynamics of the crowd, movement on the bench and the atmosphere.
As I raised the issue almost immediately the game had finished I don't think it is fair to suggest that the Gazette have not put their head over the parapet on this.
If Boro fans were really that horrified to hear "racist" chants, why on earth did they not try to drown them out.
In my opinion the whole thing is an overreaction from politically correct Boro fans who were too busy sitting at home watching the match on the telly or reading internet message forums, rather than attending the game.
"IS calling someone a terrorist or a paedophile worse than singling someone out for being Homosexual?"
To this question, I would say yes it is worse. Paedophile's are sick human beings and what they do is just down right disgusting.
So you are trying to justify to me calling somebody about their sexuality is the same as calling someone a Paedophile?
You take out 2 adverts in your local paper with your address attached & the 1st declare you are happy to be a homosexual & then take a 2nd declaring that you are a peadophile! I'm damn sure I know which one will get the biggest response!!!
To call someone a terrorist in this day and age with all the crap that is going on in the world is just pathetic. Mido and a hell of a lot of other people are labeled that due to their ethnic background. It is pathetic. enough said.
I understand the point you are trying to make that chanting goes on at every ground and it is the 'norm'. That doesnt justify it and boro fans are just as guilty as every other teams fans for doing this
I will quote 'in your liverpool slums' song that is sung, it is ment to be said in jest but you have to remeber it is a 2 sided coin and what you think might be funny can actually hurt others.
Enough of this anyway. Lets get onto the important stuff like I dont know, the match itself!
I thought David Wheater had a brilliant game & to see yet again a full english back 4 is brilliant!
Mido, booked for reacting to the crowd by shushing them, How did N'zogbia not get booked? He ran directly to the north stand, very aggressively and had to be rugby tackled by martins i believe to stop him getting any closer to the crowd. I honestly believe he would have gone right into the crowd if he hadnt have been stopped.
Mido challanged for everything and was constently getting behind his team to gear them up. Brilliant display for me.
I would like to point out that despite what ive heard and read, Steven Taylor should not be held responsible for the injury to Alidiere. It was purly accidental.
Where the hell did Arca get that turn of pace from when he scored, he was like a whippet down that wing, if only he could run that fast on the pitch with the ball at his feet.
Unlucky for Peter Ramage, if he has damaged his knee ligiments then I wish him a speedy recovery as we all know first hand what its like to lose a player to that injury.
Finally, did he or didnt he? Did Viduka celebrate or not because for me he started to then suddenly stopped so if that was ment as a good will gesture to not celibrate then fair play to the lad.
Only thing left to say is after a performace of comittment like that, hopefully we will get a decent crowd on wednesday night and Mido will continue his goal per game record he currently has.
"**AV writes: "What is said at football is not to be taken seriously." On the contrary. That line would not stand up in a court. Football can not be above the law nor can it be exempt from social norms.
Are you saying an individual directing a stream of vile racist filth at an individual should be beyond action because it is in a football ground? Surely not.
Somethings are just wrong no matter where or when."
Totally avoiding the fact that Boro have sang things at other players that were just as vile, and discrimantly.
I very much doubt anything will happen regarding the newcastle fans, but if the slim chance occurs and the newcastle fans or club are punished I will straight away write to the body that adminstered this punishment and ask them to do exactly the same for the homophobic "only gay in the village chant" boro sang at Robbie Savage that they are so proud of.
The Boros reaction to this pathetic, You cant stand, you cant sing unless they play music over you and now they are censoring harmless banter.
**AV writes: I'm not avoiding anything. When neccessary I have criticised Boro fans - for taunting Dyer and Bramble after the 'roasting' scandal for instance - and have done so because I believe that if something is wrong then it is wrong irrespective of who is doing it.
It seems some Newcastle fans do not feel the same and are not willing to challenge the behaviour of their peers. That is where the real problem lies.
It amuses me to see people from the Middlesbrough messageboards that have been full of anti geordie rhetoric for years crying and whinging like little schoolchildren because some silly people have sang a nasty song about one of their heroes.
If this racist chanting is an issue, I would expect Middlesbrough FC and Mido in particular to do something about it, not a load of hypocritical whining cyberninnies
AV, in response to my posting, you say "The nature of his job means Eric is totally focussed on what is happening on the pitch and over the years he has learned to to ignore the background noise and activity so he can concentrate on the game"...What a total cop out and abdication of a journalists responsibility.Shame on you. I thought you had more credibility than that.
**AV writes: Why is it a cop out? The Gazette reported and commented on the chanting within minutes of the game finishing. I did it on this blog. Eric was writing the match report for the paper, Adam Steel was going a match report to go on-line immediately.
It is a division of labour and tried and tested team work that ensures every aspect of the match is covered by people giving it their full attention. Anything less would be an abdication of our responsibility.
AV
For some reason quite a lengthy post of yesterday re the chanting and the game has gone AWOL.
Basics: agree with all you say on the chanting.
On the game; we shouldn't revel too much in coming back from a goal down twice - good to come back, not so good to continue leaking goals.
Fair result overall and a reasonable performance.
Much to admire about the way the team played and Gate's intent but The Boat being this week's square peg in the round hole on the right meant that not only was the right short suited but with Arca, Rocky and Stewie making up the midfield we had no protection for a back 4 with 2 just back from injury. It also means no threat from the right hand side - again.
That, and the fact that we can't rely on Mido alone up front all season long, however we share the goals around.
So we're back to what we all know - that we need a right sided midfielder and a striker this week.
Sorry to see (if true) that Gate is considering Moatab rather than the defensive midfielder Shawky of the Egyptian pair, if it's one of 2. Shawky's record is the more impressive and there are better strikers around.
We also seem to be being linked with Nolan from Bolton - a good thing.
I don't follow the argument about having to wait until Weds for the work permit to come through - it's going to be granted but even starting in advance we won't be concluding negotiations until after Weds anyway.
**AV writes: My understanding is that everything is agreed pending the work permit. The second is it issued the deal will be completed releasing funds for Boro to push forward deals that they are trying to get in place by then.
Wednesday and Thursday could be very busy.
If the references comparing Mido to the shoe bomber upset you delicate ra ra's so much I suggest that you write off to Private Eye and complain about it seeing as they originally published the similarity in looks that these two people share.
When the hell did this town get taken over by spineless complaining moaning minnies.
**AV writes: Are you suggesting the Toon Army is the militant wing of the Private Eye readership? I think we should be told.
The pathetic and completely unjustifiable chants from the Newcastle fans simply reflect the sort of people they are, scum of the earth, just as Boro or any other supporters who sing similar chants are also scum. There is no excuse.
The so called fans posting on this blog defending the chants are just as bad. We need to see Newcastle football club and their local press condemning this behaviour, it will only stop when those indulging in it realise their peers find it unacceptable and clearly at the moment that is not the case.
"You do realise that the whole country is laughing at us due to this reaction"
This was not apparent in the national press yesterday was it? Are you sure you're a Boro fan Lewis Thompson?
At least this furore and the indifference to it of the 'Geordie Nation' (c. J Hall, Teesside) reinforces the common perception of people from Newcastle as being, well, a bit dim really.
Monkeys and morons as R Liddle once described them. See also Paul Whitehouse's neanderthal incarnation of 'Clive the Geordie'.
**AV writes: Not all Geordies are like that though. It is a cosmopolitan and culturally vibrant city with a liberal tradition. The key to this is for decent, articulate Geordies to stand up and be counted and challenge this sad cartoon version of their image that is presented to the nation .
Now a link to Darren Fletcher - better news even than Nolan, I think.
Hypocrites.
Taken from the Boro Nation forum
Whether racist or not, I don't think anybody is denying that the chants were offensive, and reprehensible. What sticks in my craw is the whiter-than-white hysterical bleating of many on here. Let the FA deal with it, and stop whinging.
My sentiments entierely, its time to let the FA, Boro and Newcastle deal with it and move on.
What do you expect from Geordies, AV? They are a different breed to us.
I was returning (by train) from London on the last day of last season. Newcastle had played in London that day and so, there were some Newcastle fans on that train as well. I was wearing my Boro top, so one of the Newcastle fans said (just after boarding the train):
"You're not a Boro fan are you?" To which I replied, "You're never going believe it, but I'm Liverpool fan". Just a bit of sarcastic banter so far. Everything was OK until one of them said: "I bet you mess with your kids, eh".
At first I didn't twig, so I looked at them blankly and replied "Eh". Then, I looked down at their hands. Three friends of the person who asked the question were making vile gesticulations with their hands. I'll leave you to imagine what they were doing.
I was furious; my exact words were: "Say that again and I'll throw you off this train while it's moving!" They couldn't see any wrong in what they had said. "What's wrong with you, we were only having a laugh?!" They said.
To his credit, though, the person who said it realised how angry I was and came to where I had taken my seat and apologised for what he said.
I tried to explain that for the people of Teesside, that is a sore point, especially as those rumours are not based on any truth at all. And not only that, as an individual, you would be absolutely furious to be associated with such heinous activity.
What can I say, other than I had done absolutely nothing to provoke that, but they thought it was acceptable to accuse me of the worst possible crime (in my opinion), as if it were fair game.
I thoroughly enjoyed the match, I thought that considering we had four new starters in the team in young, Woodgate, Rocky & Mido that we played extremely well.
I was particularly impressed with the way Woodie kept Viduka in his pocket all game except for one moment when Viduka turned in a space that didn't exist, it was a great goal and as GS said typical of what Viduka does so well.
The combination of Arca and Rocky in the middle worked really well, they were an impressive combination, I agree with JP that Boateng isn't the answer on the right but I didn't think we were exposed in the middle at all, in fact Butt and Smith were largely anonymous. It does beg the question over where that leaves Boateng in the long term.
It was a great game to watch compared to recent seasons, much more attacking and open and GS has clearly signed some quality players in Aliadiere and Tuncay, combined with Rocky and Arca's ball skills and insightful passing it looks positive for the future.
On a separate note I took my eight year old son down to the Riverside early so that he could get some autographs, the players were great to a man, they all went along a long line of people signing autographs, posing for photos and having a chat, which given the fact they were preparing for a game was probably not something they wanted to do but they put in the effort and deserve a pat on the back for presumably doing that every home game.
My son came away with a shed load of autographs and a grin which still hasn't gone away!
AV
These groups of morons who persist in abusing certain sections of society are such scum, that batons would bring the message home, far more penetrating than words.
It’s an ever present part of La Liga, which has cast its eyes on FIFA hundreds of times, but they have blindfolded themselves inside its neglect.
What a man you are Mido to say that such degradation made your heart stronger and how lucky we are to have a person of your temperament and character in our team.
Newcastle United must now will issue you with a widespread public apology and also inform all who tried to dislodge you heart that another day of such shame, will clamp their away days out.
The reason being is that no club is obligated to supply tickets to any party who have known taunting racists etc, amongst their ranks.
The FA should be getting their act sorted, because we have about 385 foreign players shared out between our Premiership Clubs at this moment in time.
The minority always spoil things, because the majority of Newcastle fans will have deep feelings of respect.
Finally, Mido represents thousands of people in our country who are subjected to the same disgusting torture every day the Lord sends, so one can well imagine their daily hells.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. It is a cliche that seems apt in the fallout from Sunday's Derby with the Skunks.
People have short memories from the days when the Boro fans chanted "you should have burned in the fire" to the Bradford fans. How sick is that ? not to mention the repeated fare of "town full of rent boys" to most Cockney clubs
We should all just get on with it, Mido himself has put it all down to drunken mischief. If the Geordie miscreants are disciplined then it will be apt to the ancronym of NUFC... No use Flipping crying.
Lets get behind the lads and shoot up that table. I agree with earlier messages that I hope there is a good turnout on Wednesday and GS dosen't tinker too much with the starting line up as a number of players need the match practise.
I would, however, like to see Tom Craddock given a run out, even if it is off the bench. He has an eye for goal which has been missing for a long time with the youngsters.
As a serving member of the military I found the level of abuse being directed at Mido for his North African origins as sick and damn right disgusting.
I have recently returned from a tour of Iraq where a colleague of mine was killed by a road side bomb. I then return home to find (the majority of) the Newcastle fans degrading a young professional footballer for being a terrorist. The whole incident made me feel sick and has to be stopped immediately.
THESE CHANTS COULD HAVE FAR REACHING EFFECTS AND SHOULD BE TREATED VERY SERIOUSLY. If no action is taken then this level of abuse will be construed as acceptable by the authorities and will only increase.
I agree with sorting our own house out too and there has to be lines firmly drawn. The answer should come with points deductions or behind close doors fixtures for the perpetrators. Otherwise are we to wait until someone is seriously hurt or killed before action is taken?!
The Premier League need to take action. Newcastle United need to take action. The only action required from Mido is to keep banging in the goals for Boro as this will be the perfect response to the filth who seek to use these pitiful remaks to put him off his game.
Werdermouth - later in his interview Steve Gibson said the annual gate income at the Riverside was £7.5m. Therefore Viduka was asking for £3.75million which is £70000 a week.
That would have been over three years, how many 34 year old forwards are worth that much? Clearly the barcodes have more money than..............they know what to do with.
One other thought three players were singled out for various levels of 'abuse' on Sunday, Mido, Viduka and Arca.......they all scored.
I think all the Geordies that are posting on here are completely missing the point that is trying to be made.
I seem to remember uproar in Newcastle after a European away game where Titus Bramble was subjected to Monkey chants because of the colour of his skin.
Please can just 1 person tell me how that is different for labelling Mido a shoe bomber because of the colour of his skin?
Racist chants are not wanted in football or anywhere for that matter. Get with the programme, its not the 1800's anymore, it is 2007 & there is such a thing as equal rights.
Joking chants yes, absolutely fine but racist chants no.
Back to football & Darren Fletcher - do me a favour, he is this years Johnny Greening. He is a centre Midfielder who plays out on the right when asked to by Fergie. Surely he would just be another square peg & do you really believe he would improve the squad as I dont.
Whereas I do believe for a lot cheaper, Wayne Routledge would improve the squad & is a natural winger.
I must admit i'm confused over these 2 Egyptians as 1st they were defo coming on trial, 2nd southgate came out & said he is not taking them on trial & now they have apparently been on trial & are on the verge of signing Shawky (the midfielder). AV, what is your understanding of this situation?
**AV writes: My understanding is that they proposed trial was shelved by mutual agreement but that the club are in talls with Shawky
Can somebody please enlighten me a to what the "Anti-Arab" chants were that Louise Taylor keeps referring to? And also, what Islamaphobic abuse did Tuncay receive from the mindless racist hordes?
Thanks in advance.
p.s. The paedo chants were well out of order.
The chanting was out of order, but I do remember Boro fans chanting in similar measure to same Mido at last seasons home defeat.
Unfortunately anything seems to go (except racailly based abuse). In any event Mido did the right thing and shut them all up with his goal.
The difficulty lies in where the line should be drawn. For example we Boro fans have turned around the Smoggy insult to being our own little idiom.
The truth is also that if it sounds funny its not the minority who sing along its an easy majority as in Sunday. You are pretending if you try to convince me that it was only a handful of the Geordies, it was most of them.
The only way to sort would be to eject them all which takies you back to where the line is drawn. Anyway, good game and I am now optomistic following dispairing after the Wigan shambles. Up the Boro!!!
"It is lower than the Munich chants directed at Manchester United by Leeds fans and right down there with Chelsea or Arsenal fans hissing in imitation of Zyklon B and singing about Auschwitz when they play Spurs."
How on earth can you liken the chanting of one person looking like someone else to the deaths of thousands of people in the holocaust? Totally over the top reaction.
Yes, the paedo chants were out of line and something I sincerely hope we stop singing about immediately but even that doesn't compare to what you tried to liken it to.
And are you serious in thinking that Boro fans wouldn't sing "get your t*ts out" if an attractive female walked in front of 3,000 predominately male supporters?
Nigel who posted at 3.37, talks about missing the point, and then he totally misses the point
The chant, whilst ill-advised, has nothing to do with race, but EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Mido, in the past, was a spitting double of Richard Reid the Shoe Bomber. As pointed out in Private Eye ages ago.
No wonder that racism is an issue when it is hysterically looked for everywhere and then invented when it's not there! Why if it was a race/Islam issue wasn't Tuncay similarly verbally assaulted?
No different to Dennis "He's a dwarf, a dwarf" Wise, Ray "Shirley Temple" Parlour or Jimmy "Fat Eddie Murphy" Hasselbaink, or were those chants racist as well !
First things first your not a derby, Newcastle vs Sunderland is a derby. Boro is a small town in Yorkshire who try to claim derby games against us.
Also I see how you've failed to mention Mido producing the V's at the Newcastle end. Next the chants weren't racist we were simply pointing out Mido's resmblence to the shoe bomber, like we did we with Hasselbaink 3 years ago(Fat Eddie Murphy), I didn't see anyone making a fuss out of that.
Also seems you have a selective memory sir since last year while leaving St James, your lot were singing "town full of p**is" at us.
It's football, a when you have a decent away following like Newcastle who actually mange to sell out everywhere we go you normally have banter with the home fans, but a suppose your away support is like your home and sit in silence every game.
**AV writes: I am starting to get a bit concerned that so few Newcastle appear to be willing to accept that the 'paedo' chants are totally unacceptable.
Mainy - I think Fletcher is a much better bet than you describe: right age, right physical size, versatile, good engine, good range of passing, can head the ball, can play wide right (even full-back in a crisis) and also through the middle. Has been known to get a goal or two as well as provide. In a smaller squad like our those attributes are worth having.
In a larger squad like ManUre's it makes him vulnerable to the number of specialists they have for each position who are better than he is in that position but not overall. That's why he's constantly on their bench and filling in but why he is also first on the Jock's international team sheet in their midfield.
Routledge is only an out and out right winger. He's tiny - even tinier than Lennon or SWP, needs turn-ups on his shorts! As someone on here described in an earlier debate his playing style is like a Jack Russell with a ball too big for it's mouth.
Sorry, that's a bit cruel an assessment but in overall terms I think Flether's a better bet.
Pleased also to see that it was Shawky and not Moatab that we have been talking with.
"The truth is also that if it sounds funny its not the minority who sing along its an easy majority as in Sunday. You are pretending if you try to convince me that it was only a handful of the Geordies, it was most of them."
Sorry but that's dependent on which chant you're referring to, whilst a sizeable amount were indeed chanting paedo at him only a few (proportionally) were singing the bomb chant.
Maybe it sounded like a lot were due to the relative quiet at the Riverside but I was smack bang in the middle of the away fans and most of the people around me didn't join in that chant, *or* joined in for about one line then realised what they were saying and stopped.
Whilst a few of the chavs in the row in front of me were indeed joining in fervently (and do you expect any different reaction from them really?) mostly I just heard people have a semi-embarassed giggle to themselves under their breath and say something to the effect of "that's a bit harsh that", that or they said a line then thought better of it.
Personally, I joined in on the paedo chant after the goal (I did feel slightly guilty about that later as I actually always thought Mido was unfairly done by at times) maybe letting my emotions cloud my usually decent judgment, but basically it's a random silly taunt that his name conveniently rhymed with it's nothing personal and anyone should be able to see that.
At the end of the day it's all just words, personally I'm sick of peoples reactions from taking offense to things that amount to no physical harm, stop being such a bunch of sensitive cry babies.
Oh and yes, I do know how it is to be a minority/ foreigner/outsider having lived in spain for 10 years and being called a "guiri de mierda" (look it up) at least daily, it didn't bother me then, it doesn't bother me now.
Though I must admit I never had few hundred/thousand people chanting something at me like that, still if I got to go back to big old mansion and ferrari I think I'd get over it.
**AV writes: I respect your honesty on this but don't you see that the 'paedo' chanting is far from banter? It is just about the worst slur you can throw at someone.
This is a load of rubbish really, mate.
Did Newcastle fans make a deliberate attempt to racially abuse Mido? No. Did Newcastle fans point out that he bares a striking resemblance to shoebomber Richard Reid? Yes, yes they did.
It's also nice to see you changed a certain word of a certain song directed at a certain ex-striker who has signed for Newcastle. The word in question, which refers to his nationality, would make the song 'beyond the pale' and would be more racist than the Mido chants.
I hope that The Sun and other papers now follow the example they've set themselves and don't pour water on this 'Islamophobia'.
The next time there's a debate on the Burka, on Mosques, on Islam, I want to see all of the tabloids lined up, firmly behind Islam otherwise it would just show them up for the double standard gutter rags they are.
**AV writes: I changed nothing. Boro fans were definitely chanting that Viduka was 'greedy' and not an 'Aussie'.
Regarding this Mido business, Lets get one thing clear... no mention was made of Mido's colour, no mention was made of his race or of his religion or even shoe size.
So where exactly does this accusation of Islamophobia that you/your paper made come into it?
PS... I totally agree that the paedo chants are well out of order and that the bomber chants were distasteful but I wont accept that they are Islamophobic and your column/newspaper is stepping into dangerous territory by accusing people of this.
'So where exactly does this accusation of Islamophobia that you/your paper made come into it?'
Skunker, I think you will find the national press all picked up on this hence the reason it is being highlighted so much, it's not just boro fans that think this was a disgrace, it is pretty much the whole of the uk except newcastle.
I dont know if they have a certain campaign up there but here in middlesbrough and most over clubs in the uk all support a campaign called ' Kick racisim out of fotball'. It may be worth you taking a look into it.
'Did Newcastle fans make a deliberate attempt to racially abuse Mido? No. Did Newcastle fans point out that he bares a striking resemblance to shoebomber Richard Reid? Yes, yes they did.'
Mido he looks like Richard Reid you know...... Matt I would like to apologise on behalf of the rest of Britain for actually hearing Mido he has a bomb you know. I do apologise as acording to you it was something different that was sang.
Fat Eddie Murphy, Charlie Dimmock in disguise, I would class these as joking chants but labeling someone a terrorist and a Peado is completely different.
Tony Robson, well done for holding your hand up but I think there must have been a lot more 'chavs' there than the few on the row in front of you.
I was also at the game, sat in the east stand, where I could hear everyword and it wasnt a one corus, then stop, there were a few remeditions on more than one occasion so saying the majority stopped when they realised what they were singing didnt stop them from singing it again did it?
John Powls, your assesment of Fletcher is probably correct hence reason I likened him to Greening as he was the same when he first came to us.
He could defo do a job for us however it s a signing that doesnt fill me with excitment. Anyway I thought we didnt like scottish players as Morrison was sold as soon as he pledged his future to them.
West Ham are apparently going for Adriano, with Curbs already coming out saying his first choice forwards are Zomora & Bellemy, maybe we should test them to see if Ashton is available!!
So Ian Cusack from the Geordie fanzine True Faith thinks Mido's treatment should simply be put "in the context of local rivalry" and that the chanting wasn't even racist because "Emre plays for us and he is a Muslim".
Absolutely staggering and frightening to think people believe that, not to mention extremely dangerous. So to follow that argument to it's 'logical' conclusion, does it mean it's OK to racially abuse an opposing black player as long as your team has black players ?
And of course, the morons that were chanting the abuse are actually total cowards. Would any of them ever go to Celtic and chant anti-catholic songs? or go to Rangers and chant pro-Catholic songs ? or go to Egypt and chant their anti-Muslim songs ? Of course not, never in a million years.
Newcastle must act immediately and punish the guilty, and the FA must, in turn, punish Newcastle in exactly the same way they demand punishment when English players are racially abused abroad.
Premier League games are shown around the world, how the hell can we possibly explain or justify that sort of behaviour to anybody (especially Muslims) viewing from abroad ? They have not only disgraced their club, they have disgraced their country.
Nigel- three of the players booed scored did they? Try reading Vic's blog before wasting space with something that's already been said.
John Powls- what is it you see in Fletcher that no one else does? It's like you two are related. The fact is we need an *out and out* right winger not another utility player.
Matt- our 'keeper's an Aussie. Of course we wouldn't chant at Viduka about his adopted nation of birth. Also, of course it is racist to compare soomeone to a terrorist on the basis of their skin.
Mainy- i agree about Routledge as, amongst what I previously stated, he would be half the price of Fletcher.
Jjack kerouac- go back to school mate. More than 6 *million* Jews were killed in the Holocaust.
Newcastle should make an announcement over their tannoy at their next home game so their good fans are aware of the actions of the scum minority. After that though, I think we should all move on.
Malc
Yeah - it's only me, Sir Alex Ferguson, Alex McCleish who has him as his international captain and clearly someone pretty senior at Boro too. I have no personal axe to grind for Fletcher, I just judge on what I see.
There are also reasons that Routledge would be half the price of Fletcher - though I doubt that Fletcher would be all that expensive and may be available on a loan.
We are also rumoured, this morning, to have given up interest in Alves and Adriano in favour of Samaras from Citeh.
Look, guys, there are reasons why he doesn't score goals and couldn't get into Citeh's team even before they started to bring people in to replace him. Please, NO!
'I am starting to get a bit concerned that so few Newcastle appear to be willing to accept that the 'paedo' chants are totally unacceptable'.
Why should we expect Jawdees to be any different in print than they are vocally? Let's face it, these people are typically big of mouth and small of brain: they are not thinkers. Maybe there's a connection here with the surprising absence of trophies over the last 5 decades.
Newcastle / Tyneside is also a remote location, is the most parochial of the UK's big cities and has a relatively small ethnic population; it is not in fact particularly 'cosmpolitan' at all.
Malc, I read AV's blog in the morning and by the time I posted abot the three scorers believe it or not I'd forgotten he'd made the same reference at the end of his blog, not a big deal, prehaps you need to chill out a bit.
The way in which journalists, particularly nationally have reported the potential 'race' issue in this case is hugely irresponsible.
The bombing taunts were minimal when compared to the 'Mido, Peado' chants. They were also borne, not out of racial hatred, anti muslim, anti arab, or islamophobic tendencies, but out of the fact that he looks like a convicted terrorist, Richard Reid, who is in fact English.
When you look at 2 photos of them together the resemblance is striking.
The way journalists have jumped on the race bandwagon comes across as lazy and irresponsible. Louise Taylor, in particular, rather than being credited, should be criticised for innacurate, inciteful journalism. I would not expect this from a journalist who writes for one of the nations more respectable newspapers.
Her suggestion that Mido was being subjected to bombing taunts prior to scoring are totally untrue, they came after he scored and reacted to the 'Mido, Paedo' taunts.
But Ms Taylor has a history of poor reporting, her quote from Ian Cusack linking him with the True Faith fanzine was again, an example of laziness.
Ian Cusack has not had any links with True Faith for a long time, something she should know, or at least check before linking his quotes with that of a fanzine.
She and others (yourself AV, and Gareth Southgate), have also suggested that he should not have been booked for his reaction, that it was dignified. An action like his in front of opposition fans is standard in football.
However you fail to point out that after he was booked he stood on the half way line giving the 'V' sign to the away end for at least 5 seconds. Something he was very lucky to get away with. Is this dignified or justified?
The 'Mido, Paedo' chants are distasteful, but were the bulk of the abuse aimed at him, something missed or completely ignored by a lot of journalists reporting on this issue.
I work in Teeside and know that the vast majority of football following people aren't shocked or hurt by all the paedophile taunts, they don't like them, and it narks them a bit, but they don't get really offended by them.
But this doesn't make it right, and I think as a group Newcastle fans should move on from singing and chanting of this nature. Its not right and it shouldn't be accepted.
As a final note on Mr Gibsons calculations for income. £7.5m/500 (approx ave season ticket price) = 15,000. I would guess Boro have about 15,000 season ticket holders so his calculation is based not on annual gate receipts but annual season ticket income.
coggins - I think you've over stepped the mark a bit there, to start insulting geordies collectively doesn't help at all.
Clearly there are a minority who your description applies to.
I agree with your last sentence, although i think its a description which maybe could be also used to describe Teesside.
But clearly being a geordie doesn't by definition make you big mouthed and small brained. That is a description which could be equally applied to people in every corner of the UK.
What surprises me is that not a single geordie has posted on this blog unequivically condeming the paedo chants or acknowledging the racist chant. I suspect that simply reflects the type of opposition supporters that read other clubs blogs and message boards.
"Let's face it, these people are typically big of mouth and small of brain: they are not thinkers. "
Thats funny, I got the same impression about you reading that claptrap.
Nigel
Yes i may be generalising (what else can you be in the context of describing a group of people?), but being a bit backward is one national perception which they've only succceeded in enhancing since Sunday.
My other, related point, is that there are strong parochial attitudes up there which are not in keeping with an apparently 'cosmopolitan, liberally-minded' city: hence AVs surprise at the defensive / indifferent response.
I think we know that as an area of hard work which 'does what is says on the tin' Teesside isn't particularly cosmoplitan but then it has never laid claim to such an accolade and as it doesn't contain a large city it probably wouldn't be expected to.
Interesting to read the (I hope, innaccurate) comments said to be coming from Gate in today's Gazette.
The incoming is now supposed to be Shawky and 1 other. Is the 1 other the striker or the right sided midfielder (which Shawky isn't unless we're going to play him out of position too!)?
And why isn't it both since the fee for Shawky is minimal and, I presume, bank-breaking wages won't be involved.
Would this get as much attention if it wasn't a local team?
Maybe some boro fans will take a look at themselves and think twice before chanting and forming an opinion on some things
The way i see it is that a lot of people who seem to be newcastle fans are posting on here trying to defend their actions.
I think the majority who are posting were'nt actually at the game and are commenting as they feel hard done to.
We need to remember that like i said before it is a 2 sided coin and since this has been highlighted, newcastle fans are now being branded as rasists and anti islamic etc.
They have an average gate of say 45,000 and there was only 3000 at the game so to label them all as rasicts etc is stupid, it is a small minority which every club, boro included, have and need to weed out.
My problem is that living on teesside & newcastle being a largish city, we could become targets for the real terrorists out there. It sounds like an over reaction but they attack our troops for trying to bring peace to their countries so whats to stop them moving their attentions away from london which always seems to be their main target.
They could hear the chants and use that as propaganda as a reason to target us.
The only positive coming out of ths seems to be that there is total agreemnt that the peodo comments were unjustified. Unfortunatly there seems to be a defence over the bomb comments.
Somebody above mentioned Emre, wasnt there uproar in newcastle when he was verbally assulted by an opposition player for his race/relegion etc when playing in europe the other year?
The FA need to take action, I am not saying this because it is newcastle (althought is a bonus) but like the tevez affair, they need to set a precedent that this will no longer be accepted and offenders/ repeated offenders will be punished in a way that will hurt the club and its fans.
I dont feel docking points is the right way to go to start with but games played behind closed doors for example or no away tickets to be made available for x amount of games would maybe make a difference.
Im thinking this as the club would have no supporters cheering them on, this will make an impact on the pitch and in the clubs pockets but it should also make the fans think twice about what they say in future games.
I just hope the boro fans remember all this before they start chanting things in the future.
P.S. David Nugent could be available, according to Redknapp its upto the player himself. Now let me think, Boro or ground copying Derby who MAY be involved in a relegation fight all year. I think he would stand a better chance of progressing his career with us.
"Let's face it, these people are typically big of mouth and small of brain: they are not thinkers. "
'Thats funny, I got the same impression about you reading that claptrap'.
So you agree with the chanting then oh wise one?
From what GS is saying about the number of players coming in it sounds like we may be getting a right winger (I'm assuming Fletcher) but not another striker.
I think he has already said that Mido is Yaks replacement.
To me that means we will be needing a centre forward come January when all the good ones will not be available, so in reality it will be next summer.
That puts considerable pressure on one of Tuncay, Aliadiere and Dong Gook to score regularly.
Aliadiere looks like an excellent footballer but not a prolific scorer, Tuncay may well score a few but GS needs to give him a chance and give him a run in the first eleven as a striker. Dong Gook has done nothing yet to suggest he is of prem. quality.
It looks to me that when the dust has settled we may have a right sided midfield player but we will be short of proven scorers. We will also have a lot of cash in the bank, which as far as I am aware will not contribute to goals scored.
Ouf first eleven looks pretty good but with the African cup of nations coming up we are going to be short of goals I fear, unless Arca or Rocky continue to perform at Lampard like levels and score a shed load of goals.
THE TREATMENT DISHED OUT TO LEEDS SHOULD BE GIVEN TO NEWCASTLE
5 or 10 or even 15 ponts deduction suspended for two seasons. This is the only way to make clubs conform
I would lay a sizeable bet that boro will never not turn up for a match as was the case against Blackburn a few years ago
A slightly light hearted look at the paedo chants. I sit in the SW corner right up against the away fans. The funniest thing I have heard or seen at a match was at last years derby when 2000 geordie fans STOOD UP chanting "stand up if you shag your kids".
It just confirms the mentality of some people. That is not aimed at Geordies as most of my family are toon fans.
"P.S. David Nugent could be available, according to Redknapp its upto the player himself. Now let me think, Boro or ground copying Derby who MAY be involved in a relegation fight all year. I think he would stand a better chance of progressing his career with us."
..ssshhh.. say it quietly but we were 4th from bottom around xmas..werent fully save from relegation until 3 games to go.
If Portsmouth don't want Nugent after he has been there two months and played two games why on earth would we want him?
I agree completely Nigel.
Redknapp is a very good judge of player and if, after 5 games, he is deemed not good enough for Pompey, why would he be good enough for us? I know he scored on his England debut, but my 2 week old son could of scored from half a yard!
I have heard Sheff Utd are in talks with Stelios. Why dont we make a move for him? I know he is 33 and not what we are really looking for as a way of moving forward, but I think he could bring some good cover to the squad and give us something different late on in a game. Ive also seen him play effectively down the right for Bolton.
I read in a national paper today that Adriano was coming up for talks after his talks with West Ham. Any idea if this is correct AV? It was a paper which usually only deals in gossip so im not taking anything for granted on that one.
Chants? So what? Boro et al have done it in the past and will do it in the future. What have we become? A nation of people far too scared to call a spade a spade (no pun intended). The PC Police have made it so you cannot hardly do or say anything for fear of infringing on someone's 'rights' or hurting their feelings.
The tabloid press will print whatever they think will sell papers. Today they are outraged, tomorrow it'll be something Islamaphobic, or whatever the heck name du jour they've coined for some perceived injustice or other.
People, get over it, we have it way worse overseas, politically and socially than any of our esteemed guests have it in the UK. Don't believe me? Try being a Christian in a Muslim country, try speaking out about injustice in a country run by religious maniacs or military dictators.
Finally eased past The Cobblers last evening - as we should have done, but haven't always done with lower league sides. Good.
Amazed that for once - and it's a shame there were only 11,000 there because it'll never happen again - a Rocky free-kick from an outrageous distance found the net!
Almost equally amazed that Lee Dong-Goal-Less as Ian often calls him now has to lose that epithet! Again - good.
But what the game showed - yet again - is that without Mido our attack is lightweight and will not be up to Prem standards. We can't just rely on Mido all season - and we have to resort to playing 2 left wingers because we have no right sided midfielder.
So we have a day and a half to find what we (and everyone and their dog) have known we have needed for a season and a half - a striker and a right sided midfielder.
And what are we doing about it? Well, Gate wasn't at the game last night, apparently, working on transfers. But what does Crosby say - "At the minute we are not really close to signing anyone. There are one or two players we're interested in, but it's looking like we might run out of time."
Well whose fault is that? We may only have known we had an increased priority on another striker since the Wigan game but that's a fortnight ago. We've known about the right side problem forever.
Wait for The Yak work permit? It was absolutely a done deal that that would go through on appeal and we've done enough ourselves to know that. So why wait to talk.
And as for being interested in Samaras. Well, 9 goals in 50 games for Citeh and not even in their team before they started buying strikers doesn't fill me with confidence.
Crosby also says that we shouldn't spend the Yak cash just because we've got it on players that won't improve us. No, of course not - but even half the amount coming in would buy you a very reasonable continental striker AND the rest would get you a very acceptable right sided midfielder.
And if it isn't deployed now to strengthen our squad, given The Count's dislike of buys in January, I can see the money disappearing into the MFC pot and never being used for players.
Why do I get the feeling that the dawdling over signing Shawky is so that they have someone to parade tomorrow to cover for our failure - again - to deal with the real issues.
Oh, by the way AV - did I say that we should not trust the badge kissing stuff that Riquelme was saying about playing for a season without wages to stay with the Argentinian club he loves and has been on loan with and wait to see what his wallet and agent said.
I see that he has signed for Athletico Madrid - whose badge he will be seen kissing in his first game.
John - this should cheer you up,
'Southgate, expected to welcome former Newcastle full-back Alessandro Pistone to the training ground later today'
3 transfer windows for GS and not a sniff of a RW.
A few weeks ago GS mentioned that Tuncay was signed to play on the right. We all knew this was a load of old bull and this was proved by GS playing Boteng on the right side of midfield against the skunks.
Pay the cash and buy a right winger.
Gareth Southgate was at the game last night, I saw him signing autographs for the kids on his way in.
A highly entertaining game despite the attendance and credit to the Cobblers, they kept going and didn't give up.
Mido showed once again why he is so important to our season. In 19 minutes on the pitch he could and probably should have had a hat-trick, but well done to Rocky and Lee for their goals.
Never Happy
Pistone? Yerjokin'aren'ya? This is not so much scraping the barrel as kicking the barrel over and scabbling in the dirt underneath it!
The Geezette is now saying that we still can't sort a fee for Shawky, having previously had him on trial, not had him on trial, ooops yes we've got him on trial and we've given him a medical.
The usual MFC combination of amateur hour and groundhog day. It's almost comforting to see it roll round again when so much else in life's foundations seems to be be slipping away!
I hope you are kidding about Fletcher!
Why do we always break our neck to sign Fergusons rubbish?we've been doing it for years. Man U. DONT let anyone go unless they are NOT going to make it. Anybody remember Davenport??? and we still keep on taking their stiffs. Greening,and Wilson who never got out of the reserves and is now in the USA'If you have a choice get Nolan, at least we know he can do it and hit the net!!!
Shawky fee was ment to be agreed at £250k yesterday so why cant they agree a few today. I'll assume sunderland have come in with a higher bid so that we have to pay more.
I was at the match last night, we need another forward. Dong-Gook was rubbish. Tuncay only started playing after Mido was bought on (and at that point he seemed to be moved to a free fole on the left with left winger Johnson moving to the right). If Tuncay is a our new right winger then why was he put on the left?
The forward line was to light weight and will struggle in the premiership. Dong-Gook doesnt know where to run, gets in players ways and finds more opposition players with his passes than Boateng does! Mido should have scored and was very unlucky not to.
I dont want Samaras, he doesnt score enough and will be deployed out on the wing, that is the only reason we are going for him. Adriano has been offered on loan to us according to Crosby, sign him up. Only 2 years ago he scored 40 goals for club and country in a season. Thats the sort of fire power we need.
We desperatly need a right winger, Scott Duncan above mentioned Stelios, at 33 he is out of the age brackett but if you can keep him injury free then i think you could get 2 good seasons out of him. Then again, why not hi-jack hulls alleged move for Jay-Jay Okotcha. He's about the same age as Stelios and would defo be worth a try.
We have today and tomorrow left and unless southgate is going to give youth a chance (Porritt & Craddock) then we need to pull our fingers out and sign a forward and right winger.
Btw, why Nugent was asked before, the answer is simple, watch how bad our forwards were last night and you will see why we need Nugent. If Redknapp was such a good judge of player, why did he not keep faith with Peter Crouch when he had him? He has actually said he wants to keep Nugent but is happy with the forwards he is using at the minute hence if Nugent is not willing to wait for his chance then they may as well sell him and put the money towards strengthening other parts of the team.
John - funnily enough that was my reaction when I read about Pistone.
If the £11m from Yakubu is not spent, it seems as per normal, everyone apart from those who work for MFC knew the transfer would go through, will this be kept for the January transfer window, or mysteriously disappear over Christmas?
GS seems to be trying to change the style of play, but even when he played for the team we lacked a right sided player, for him to have 3 transfer windows to resolve the issue and do nothing apart from selling probably our best right sided player, reeks of incompatence.
It was obviously Crosby's turn to give out the bull from the club after last nights game, its now getting monotonous.
Raeding an article on potential transfers before the deadline and came across
GEORGIOS SAMARAS: Middlesbrough from Man City: £2.5million.
Never mind the fact that he doesn't score goals, Samaras is seen by Boro boss Gareth Southgate as a direct replacement for the departed Yakubu. What for is anybody's guess.
AV - was the post I sent yesterday (about 4.30) to sensitive for that idiot from Darlo to read?
**AV writes: I can't see any posts from you yesterday at all. The only things that got deleted were foul-mouthed Geordie's accusing me of all kinds of nasty things.
Thanks for the best laugh I've had in ages watching you whiter than white Boro fans bellyaching about racism.
Next time I hear or see an" Ice on the slippy runway" jibe or hear Ronaldo getting called a diving Portuguese cheat from you squeaky clean people, be assured that I will make sure that it gets noted to the proper authorities.
**AV writes: Talk of the devil....
I have NEVER heard any 'ice on runway' jibes at Boro. In fact, I thought that was the exclusive preserve of Leeds. Maybe you thing all those Yorkshire types look the same.
Can we have a new topic about the problem with selling tickets before last nights game. Big queues apparently and the club still not learnt form this happening in in previous. Do the club really want the crowds to go up?
Samaras? I hope he comes cheap, big risk factor, could be the new Euell.
At the risk of repeating what everyone has said so many times, why haven't we signed a right sided midfield player? It is so long since we had a good player in that position I can't remember who it was, Terry Cochrane I think.
At the time we signed Tuncay our good friend Keith Lamb also tried to sign a Turkish right sided midfield player, the deal fell through, well that happens - but it was an acknowledgement that the position needed filling, but since then nothing.
Very odd, I find it hard to believe that GS believes that Boateng is the answer in that position, that smacks of Englanditis where you have to fit certain players into the team because they are undropable.
Still maybe Adriano can play on the wing!
"I have NEVER heard any 'ice on runway' jibes at Boro."
wasnt it slush on the steps that was very very dangerous and caused us to prospone a fixture a few seasons ago?
"or hear Ronaldo getting called a diving Portuguese cheat"
Please do notify this one to the 'proper authorities' Diablo then finally we might be able to have a competitive game against Man U without having to worry about cleanly tackling Ronaldo with him doing a 10.0 dive.
4 times we played Man U last season and at least 4 times Ronaldo cheated to either win a penalty or free kick. That is not fiction that is fact as proved by television replays.
Once again I feel the need to tell you to shut up as you clearly are yet again proving you have no clue as to what it is you are talking about.
What next Diablo, are you going to report the p.a at boro for repeatedly impeeding man u fans rights of standing up in a public place?
"If the £11m from Yakubu is not spent, it seems as per normal, or mysteriously disappear over Christmas?"
If they book the christmas party at the riverside then yeh it wont be available for the next transfer window, have you seen the cost of partys there?
"Can we have a new topic about the problem with selling tickets before last nights game. Big queues apparently and the club still not learnt form this happening in in previous. Do the club really want the crowds to go up?"
There were large queues last night by the south east corner ticket office as i think this may have been the only ticket office left open prior to kick off.
Obviously the club does want crowds to go up however these tickets have been on sale for a while now so the club shouldnt be held accountable for people who leave it until the last minute possible to buy a ticket (unless they open another ticket office prior to k.o but with a low anticipated crowd, that is unlikly to happen).
I think the more serious problem is with the new machines for getting into the ground. It is clearly a cost cutting exercise by the club (as dont have to pay turnstyle operators every game) however it is not helping the fans as the queues are rediculas and if you not quick enought from entering ticket to going through the turnstyle, you have to go find someone to let you in.
Hey Diablo good to hear from you its been a while. A word of advice, in order to hear such jibes you need to go and watch the team you claim to support.
So Samaras is/could be (depends if we get him) a gamble? He couldn't cut it at Man City, but to be fair, he is young and when he did play i don't think he always had the team behind him to do things.
I think at Boro his chances to do something will be far greater. I remember watching Man City Vs Boro last season, a game we lost 1-0 and played poorly! During that game i thought Samaras was possibly the best player on the pitch, he might of not scored but he had his chances.
What i'm trying to get across is that he could be a good addition to the squad if given the chance. I don't think he can be any worse than the mighty man called Massimo Maccarone and is a quarter of the price!
I'm sure the back team staff will be doing there best to bring in someone who is going to improve the squad, they have said it plenty of times and i have faith.
Now now Anthony, thats cheating, you changed what I wrote about Ronaldo and you know it.
**AV writes: Yes I did change it. I change everything that is libellous, insulting or obscene.
Having read your article in the Gazzette, i had to wonder whether your singling out of newcastle, sunderland and leeds fans wasnt just the pathetic bitterness that comes with supporting the boro?
I, as a newcastle fan, cannot condone the chants used in regards to terrorism, and Mido having a bomb. In such politically sensitive times, such comments are always going to be seen as racist, and rightly so.
However, i have read some comments about the incident claiming the club should be punished? docked points? Yeah, right! Newcastle have won awards for their efforts in the Kick Racism Out of Football campaign, so to punish a club so against racism would be backward and unjust.
As for punishing the fans? 99% of them were not involved so you cant punish all the crowd. Furthermore, to claim that the toon were actually calling Mido a paedophile is a total falsification. There was no accusation of such a sick act in the chants.... it simply rhymed and, whilst some may feel aggreived by believing that this is demeaning the crime in question, that too would seem unjust.
Banter is a part of football, but you do have a point - there are lines. Unfortunately, you fail to recognise that the problem isnt just with a few sets of fans - there are those kinds of people in every crowd, including your beloved boro!
Boro fans are far from perfect, and the same applies to newcastle fans. What those geordes did at the game went beyond disappointing, but the criticism of it has been levelled at the geordie public far too widely!
**AV writes: I singled out those three clubs because it is they who year after year make the sick paedo taunts that go well beyond the lines that any decent, sensible person would draw.
As for claiming that those chants are somehow vindicated because they rhyme with Mido's name I wonder, firstly, how then were they justified in the past before he signed for Boro and, secondly, what would happen if we had a black player called Zigga? Would we get the same poetry and the same glib excuse.
I know Newcastle fans have a good record in fighting racism as when I lived there in the 80s I was involved in the Tyneside and District Anti-Fascist Association's then groundbreaking "United Aginst Racism" campaign.
But that reputation will be tarnished and the club's image badly dented if Newcastle don't in some way officially condemn the chanting and if so many fans continue to defend, condone and rationalise it.
As I said in the article that like racism in the past, ultimately it comes down to the ordinary fans to challenge the validity of the 'paedo' chants. I am disappointed that so few seem willing to do that.
While I hear the arguments of Newcastle fans that Boro fans have not been PC in the past with regards to offensive chants, two wrongs do not make a right and the so called fans who did this are not the decent majority who attend games at the Riverside.
o quote a gentleman who commented on this site to label someone a 'Peodo' does not cause any physical harm. Yes I agree it does not but its the most vile thing anyone can be labelled. If anyone in ordinary walk of life was labelled in this manner its called slander so Im sorry it may not be harmful physically but very harmful in other ways.
As for the NUFC fanzine editor claiming the racist chants were ust to be cast of because Emre is a muslim was the most ridiculous drivel I have ever heard!
So NUFC wouldnt react in the same way as MFC have if 3,000 people chanted Emre has a bomb you know! I would be sickened if any muslim was attacked in the way Mido was. This has to stop, the same as racist chanting to black players has been
Oh dear, you sanctimonious hypocritical lot, where was all of this moral outrage when our own fans sang the 10 german bombers song on our European adventures.
**AV writes: I condemned it as purile and ignorant. You have to be consistent on these things.