Help Shape Boro List of Legends

Reverend HonkyTonk wrote...

This seems like a very nice way to fill some space in a summer short on football!

I don't really see the point of it - hasn't it all been done to death before?

What's the point in it - will the final thing just be a newspaper article or will there be more to it?

Yours, Alf. No, sorry, Rev. HonkyTonk.

P.S. Mark Schwarzer should be in there. Our best ever keeper, an unsung hero. And he's been very loyal, despite the shennanigans of last season.

**AV writes: It will fill some space yes but the point of it is that we were approached by the Twe12th Man who are planning a new banner to feature ten Boro legends and want as many peopel as possible to help choose them.

Anyone could draw up a list of the usual suspects but the point is to widen the franchise so as many people as possible can feel that they have had an imput and can feel some kind of ownership of the banner.

Yes, Schwarzer is a good one, although I have deliberately kept away from current players because you never know, they may leave and become hate figures before the paint is dry.

Posted by: Reverend HonkyTonk  | May 16, 2007 11:05 AM

John Powls wrote...

Vic

John Hickton, John Hickton - so good they named him twice! The scandal and the vice - I love it!

How could you miss out Dickie Rooks and Gordon Jones?

**AV writes: Good spot. That's why I put these things to your scrutiny. I've inserted one of your boys in the imposter Hickton's place and stuck the other on the list of suggested candidates.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 16, 2007 11:09 AM

james emmerson wrote...

Well two stand out to me AV.

No Mark Schwarzer? One of Boro's best-ever signings and easily our best goalkeeper (with no disrespect to Steve Pears, Platt, or Willie Wigham).

And even if he were to leave he could hardly be accused of disloyalty, I doubt he would ever be a 'hate-figure' in the way that, say, Paul Merson became.

And what about....Stan Cummins?

**AV writes: I refer the honourable gentlemen to my previous answer. I think 'legends' is a concept that implies that the achievement is in the past but I am open to persuasion.

I'll add the little fella to the bubbling under list.

Posted by: james emmerson  | May 16, 2007 11:15 AM

alf wrote...

Anyone in the carling cup final, particularly job and zenden for scoring.

Not sure cooper is a legend as he spent his best years away from boro

try some from here:-

http://www.mfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Heroes/0,,1,00.html

Posted by: alf  | May 16, 2007 11:20 AM

alf wrote...

Trever senior for his play off goals.

Branca and fuchs for helping us get promoted.

How about merson who was the main reasoin we got promoted.

**AV writes: Suggesting Merson is rolling a handgrenade in. Maybe we should open a vote for another banner and Merson could feature alongside Ziege and Peter Beagrie.

Posted by: alf  | May 16, 2007 11:21 AM

Holgate Ender wrote...

uwe fuchs, pure legend. i know he was just a loan but without him boro would never had got up and there would be no riverside revolution, no juninho rav merson or whatever.

also massimo. was never up to much really but his two eufa goals will be talked about for ever.

Posted by: Holgate Ender  | May 16, 2007 11:24 AM

alf wrote...

alan kernaghan for proving the boo boys wrong,scoring an outstanding hat trick at blackburn and becoming a boro centre back and captain.

paul kerr for his goal in the zenith cup semi final.

Posted by: alf  | May 16, 2007 11:31 AM

james emmerson wrote...

One other thought, David Hodgson...although the rumours about him punching Johnston after the 81' q-final replay defeat at Wolves may be apochryphal, he was heart and soul Middlesbrough.

Does Alan Willey qualify also?

As for for the roll of shame headed by Mr Merson...Phil Whelan is a shoo-in (the worst player I've ever seen in a Boro shirt), as would be Mick Baxter (the abuse he took made Trevor Senior seem like a club hero)...and what about Billy Ashcroft (if only for his miss against Orient in the '78 quarter final). Then there was Trevor Putney.......

Posted by: james emmerson  | May 16, 2007 12:09 PM

Richard G wrote...

not a very democratic approach. Cant you run an online survey?

**AV writes: No, I don't have the facilities to do such a thing. I think even on the main Gazette site the poll feature only allows you six or so options.

Have you got a nomination or not?

Posted by: Richard G  | May 16, 2007 12:51 PM

Kingy wrote...

I think Franck Queudrue deserves a mention. I think he was arguably one of the best players to wear the boro shirt at the riverside. He was great defensively and useful for set pieces.

I think alf common should be mentioned i remember reading about him being the first ever £1000 player. He was vital in keeping us in the top division while he was here.

Posted by: Kingy  | May 16, 2007 1:05 PM

Billy wrote...

I think Terry Cochrane is worth a shout. NI international, a goal against Swansea that often featured on motd compilations and possibly still playing local football today.

Posted by: Billy  | May 16, 2007 1:26 PM

JossV wrote...

Speedy winger Alan Comfort before he 'found God' (which must have been some cross).

Posted by: JossV  | May 16, 2007 1:36 PM

Chris wrote...

Jan Aage Fjortoft!! He was a legend!!

And had he played half as many as he missed a certian Alen Boksic would've been an option! He was still a class act though!

Posted by: Chris  | May 16, 2007 1:38 PM

PETER wrote...

C’mon Anthony, get a grip of your door bell list, because surely Mick McNeil must ring a bell and a position.

Posted by: PETER  | May 16, 2007 1:44 PM

Lincoln Burrows wrote...

Gary Hamilton, who had to pack in after playing through injury for the cause. His commitment is put into perspective in an age where Boro fans have seen mega-bukcs earners like Boksic and Viduka miss games because they were 'suffering' from a runny nose.

Wasn't it Tony McAndrew who lamped Johnston after the Wolves game?

Posted by: Lincoln Burrows  | May 16, 2007 1:52 PM

tonyblack wrote...

This is a great idea and I love it !

I'd rather you defined the criteria a lot more so that it was a lot more specific or that you changed its parameters altogether.

" The criteria are flexible. It could be longevity at the club and understated stalwart service for season upon season that defines inclusion, a key role in a shorter period of success, an unchallenged iconic, cult status won through fighting spirit or maybe just one unforgetable epoch shaping moment of magic in an other wise humdrum career (yes, that you Massimo.) "

As you are looking for...

" ALL TIME heroes which will be whittled down to a ten man historical ELITE by a weekly public vote. "

... I'm not sure that Massimo would fit the bill to be perfectly honest. In fact, I'm absolutely positive that he doesn't as there are quite a few people in that list of true Iconic status and I wouldn't want to see any of them thrown out just because those of us with short memories only vote for the recent past.

This often happens in all those top 100 programmes on C4 / C5 when they do the Best Top 100 whatever programmes.

My personal preference would be to have 10 ALL TIME hero's, of which Massimo is absolutely NOT one of them and then perhaps have a lit of candidates that produced " iconic moments " in our history, of which he most definately IS one of.

Just a thought, but a big, big well done to all those involved in working on this.

TB

*AV writes: It will always be problematic because while you really want the slate to be drawn up as objectively as possible, voting is always subjective. For instance, personally I would favour those who I react to emotionally more than the technically gifted: Glover, Mogga, Uwe and Bosco rather than Johnston, Ince, Boksic or Boateng who are all unquestionably better players.

Then there are generational issues with the modern players fresh in the memory having an edge over barely remembered key figures of the past like Williamson, Bloomer, Common or Birkbeck.

And there is also the problem of what level they played at. A lot of people will vote for players who never played in the top flight let alone at international level.

So these thing are all inherently flawed - although let's remember it is just a bit fun.

Posted by: tonyblack  | May 16, 2007 2:00 PM

Nigel wrote...

I'm scratching my head to better your list AV, although the whole of the '74 team should be there, particularly, Foggon and Mills and you need to put Hickton back!

I particularly like the 'role of shame' idea I think that would be very theraputic!

Posted by: Nigel  | May 16, 2007 2:07 PM

tonyblack wrote...

" Then there are generational issues with the modern players fresh in the memory having an edge over barely remembered key figures of the past like Williamson, Bloomer, Common or Birkbeck. "

My point exactly AV, I've only ever heard of one of these guys that you mention and have absolutely no idea what he did. If these guys are deserving that we remember them in this way then we should do so without the passage of time being the deciding factor.

I wouldn't want any of them left out for Maccarone even though that game at the Riverside was the most amazing thing I have ever seen. But for me this doesn't equate to iconic status, yes, an iconic moment in time and for me the best ever just because of the sheer disbelief at it all, but definately not more than that.

AV, you of all people should know that these things are far, far from fun ! Just look at all the commotion over the badge !!!!!!!!

TB

Posted by: tonyblack  | May 16, 2007 2:49 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Good to see Dickie Rooks who played when we had white shoulders to our shirts and looked like the proverbial brick outhouse.

Gordon Jones, as cultured a left back as we ever had.

Eric McMordie, the man who played so well at Millwall Stan Anderson dropped him because the rest were rubbish!

Arthur Horsfield, everyone remembers Hicktons and O'Rourkes goals in the third division promotion year but it was his goals in a barren spell that kept us in the hunt including two at home to Darlo.

Roll of shame

George Kinnell, or as he was affectionately known following his transfer from Sunderland f***ingell. Famous for playing basketball in our area at Derby when we were 2-1 up and eventually lost 3-2.

Arthur Lightning - a bit of a misnomer for a goalkeeper of dubious character. Can I say that AV?

Graham Kelly - say no more but please pass the salt.

**AV writes: I reckon you can get away with that but let's not take it any further.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 16, 2007 3:34 PM

coggins wrote...

heine otto.

a shining light in a very gloomy era.

Posted by: coggins  | May 16, 2007 3:36 PM

Graeme Mcivor wrote...

What about Dean Glover(every one remembers where they were when we were told he was leaving)

the manager phoned his wife after a match and told her that Dean had broke a leg there was a pause and then she said "who's"

Posted by: Graeme Mcivor  | May 16, 2007 3:37 PM

Simon Conway Morris wrote...

No Pally or Stuart Ripley? I know they both jumped ship eventually but so did Tony Mowbray. They were both a major part of the rebirth of our beloved Boro. John Gannon for the roll of shame (bless him he tried but was no spring chicken).

Posted by: Simon Conway Morris  | May 16, 2007 4:44 PM

Malc wrote...

Christian Ziege. Oh he was unloyal, but remember he single handedly got us to 9th position. At home as left wing back or central midield, I can not think of a more complete player to wear the Boro shirt. The fact we were able to get him at 27-years-old for 4.5m from AC Milan still has me scratching my head.

Posted by: Malc  | May 16, 2007 4:49 PM

Shaun wrote...

Gary Pallister, anyone?

Posted by: Shaun  | May 16, 2007 5:13 PM

Mo wrote...

My nomination for loyalty to the club is the ever present JIMMY GORDON. Although Jimmy never played for his country (Scotland), his performances in the red shirt were easily equal to those of such contemporaries as Billy Wright (Wolves) and other much lauded internationals.

At the end of his playing days with the Boro, he joined Blackburn Rovers as a trainer. His next appearance at Ayresome Park was the night he trotted on to the field carrying a bucket of water and a sponge. The thunderous and prolonged applause must have been heared as far away as Whitby.

This was the fans tribute to Jimmy for his past loyalty and dedication to Boro FC. All that for ten pounds a week with a two pounds bonus for a win.

Posted by: Mo  | May 16, 2007 5:42 PM

tamSPIDER wrote...

michael reiziger...??
abel xavier...??
gaizka mendieta..??
szlizard nemeth..??

no..???

Posted by: tamSPIDER  | May 16, 2007 5:51 PM

Wally B wrote...

One player who was wrongfully omitted from the Brick Road Legends IMHO was Bill Harris. He played for the Boro for 11 years (1954-65), was captain for a while, was a Welsh International, scored Boro's fastest ever goal and also scored more than 70 goals for the Boro.

I wouldn't expect to see him in the All Time 20 top Boro players ever but I was annoyed that Boro diddn't include him on the Brick Road as he gave far more to the club than some of the names on the Road ever did.

(Yes, all right, I used to know him as well!)

Posted by: Wally B  | May 16, 2007 5:58 PM

davidt wrote...

Good fun but one things for certain, Scott Brown won't ever make the list.No doubt we are again going to have a summer of maybe's in the hope of selling a few more season tickets.

Where does Eric get his information from or is it just to fill the back page in the quiet summer months.

Good luck MV, wish you were staying.Oh sorry,wrong subject. What about Wilko,the main man for a time.Back to it. Im feeling really low now about all the players who aint going to sign for us. Ps Luv you Boro

**AV writes: Far from being plucked out of the air the Scott Brown story was rock solid. It came from his agent and was full of quotes from him and from Hibs officials.

Both may well have been trying to nudge either Boro or Celtic to end the brinkmanship and make a firm bid but we can't second guess them.

We were the first paper with the news that he had signed for Celtic though. "Let's see what you could have won."

Posted by: davidt  | May 16, 2007 7:08 PM

john salter wrote...

what about eric mcmordie,allan foggan,you nugget how dare you miss these great players,

Posted by: john salter  | May 16, 2007 9:03 PM

Graeme wrote...

Who was that Yugoslav in the early 80s? And what about Uwe Fuchs???

**AV writes: Bosco Jankovic. Legend! Uwe. Legend. Both would be on my personal short list.

Posted by: Graeme  | May 16, 2007 10:13 PM

Clive Hurren wrote...

Andy Townsend?
Always 150% ! Shame about the punditry.

Roll of shame - Keith O'Neill, Michael "Pieman" Ricketts.

Posted by: Clive Hurren  | May 16, 2007 11:02 PM

steve wrote...

That list is fairly inclusive.
I always had a soft spot for Bill Gates.

Posted by: steve  | May 16, 2007 11:06 PM

Andy C wrote...

John Craggs, Frank Spraggon - two of the hardest fullbacks you'd ever come a cross. Foundation of Big Jack's team, and the platform for the likes of David Mills to do his jinky stuff. You can't leave them out.

Posted by: Andy C  | May 16, 2007 11:28 PM

Geejay wrote...

Bill Harris should be included in any list of top Boro players. Had he played for a 'fashionable' club he would would have been ever present for Wales and rated wih the best. I never saw him waste a ball in all the years he played.

Posted by: Geejay  | May 17, 2007 7:40 AM

Never Happy wrote...

AV – Probably all mentioned already

Mark Schwarzer
John Craggs
Tony Mowbary
Willie Maddren
Gordon Jones
Stuart Ripley
Heine Otto
Dean Glover
John Hendrie
Juninho
Bosco Jankovic

Subs
Stephen Pears
Stuart Boam
David Armstrong
Graeme Souness
John Hickton

Deano is a particular favourite, decking Gary Bennett endeared him to all Boro fans from the start.

Posted by: Never Happy  | May 17, 2007 9:19 AM

geoff wrote...

Seems to me the roll of shame is even more fun , so i`d like to add Irvine Natrass or whatever his name was,he was shocking. My fav player of all time John Hickton closely followed by Bosco.

Posted by: geoff  | May 17, 2007 9:27 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

If crunching tackles are a recommendation does that mean Morrison gets in for launching Ronaldo?

It probably made him the most popular footballer in Britain on the night, all the neutrals thought it was a job well done but we must not condone foul play.

Bill Gates a name to conjure with because the refs certainly did. He had a spell where he was sent off or booked in nearly every game he played. We even nicknamed him SeGat Llib because the refs could spell his name backwards.

Will Viduka make the roll of honour or shame. Rumours have it that Manu are interested. I wonder who first floated that idea? (A seamless link if ever I saw one)

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 17, 2007 9:47 AM

alf wrote...

AV, any truth in the rumours that manutd and newcastle are in for viduka.

**AV writes: It's all smoke and mirrors at this stage but you would be surprised if they weren't interested in a very good player available on a free. Whether they follow that up with an offer depends on a variety of things - will Owen or Martins leave, will United buy big first?

I don't expect any swift resolution to be honest.

Posted by: alf  | May 17, 2007 10:12 AM

alf wrote...

It could be a lot of hot air from his agent, just like scott browns agent using boro. so then they hope boro come back with a better contract for viduka.

I am expecting viduka to have his future sorted out pretty quick. He will be wanting to go on holiday soon as he is playing in the summer for australia in a tournament. I think he will want is future sorted out within 10 days where ever it is.

Posted by: alf  | May 17, 2007 10:25 AM

deka wrote...

best ever...pearsy...mogga...little fella...robbie musto..., DO NOT INCLUDE SOUNESS PLEASE,He stopped playing for us when he heard liverpool were interested. not nice.

He played games where he couldnt care less till he got his move. i know people will level that against the little fella but at least he came back and won us a cup.

**AV writes: But agent Souness came back to the North-east and ruined Newcastle!

Posted by: deka  | May 17, 2007 12:29 PM

Mish wrote...

Ray Yeoman - played over 200 consecutive games for Boro over 6 years (58-64)and was as comitted and loyal to the Boro as any of the aforementioned. Plus he was as hard as nails and never shirked from any tackle! (Ask your grandad)

Posted by: Mish  | May 17, 2007 12:30 PM

Michael wrote...

It should be done fairly with a player chosen from every decade, so yo can vote for say a legend or two from each of the pre 50s,60s 70s,80s,90s,00s. that way the vote is distrubuted across older and younger fans.

i'm too young to know before the 90s but i'd go for

pre 60s mannion, hardwick, camsell because of what i've heard about them.
70s hickton
80s mowbray, slaven
90s juninho, bryan robson
00s southgate

Posted by: Michael  | May 17, 2007 12:32 PM

craig wrote...

how anyone can place Mark Schwarzer above stephen pears in the pecking order mystifys me.

how many gaffs can you count from one keeper? Old trafford beckham through the body; cardiff in league cup final didnt he let a clanger there too. ( and more )

pearsy was a great all round keeper and if it were not for injuries he would of defitnally had plenty of caps for england.

Posted by: craig  | May 17, 2007 12:36 PM

John Powls wrote...

Fed up with this thread now - back to business.

Not encouraged by the latest interview with Gate - the usual play-down stuff and getting us used to the fact that if we get anyone at all it'll be on 31st August.

When are we ever going to break out of this totally bankrupt strategy (actually it's the absence of a strategy) that we have been following with minimal success for years?

I'm also not encouraged that he sees no further releases - what, not even Mendieta - who I believe is out of contract; surely we're not going to extend him!? - and Euell. How can that be right?

So, no signs of the radical changes required yet, then, just more of the same old, same old.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 17, 2007 12:56 PM

Chris Monkey wrote...

I wouldn't have Ravanelli in there, he might have scored a fair few goals for us but he never really wanted to be here. I'd much rather see jan Aage Fjortoft in the list, at least he did something meaningful and seemed to love playing for the Boro.

**AV writes: He scored at Wembley!

Posted by: Chris Monkey  | May 17, 2007 12:56 PM

Billy wrote...

Good call from Graeme Mcivor re Deano. I thought it was just me who remembered where I was (getting a lift home from ICI as it happens!). It seemed like the end of an era...

Posted by: Billy  | May 17, 2007 1:13 PM

alf wrote...

Mendieta still has a year left on his contract. I expect him to go in september once teh spanish season is starting up. We will probably pay up part of his contract.

Rocky isnt going anywhere and has 3 years left on his contract. Lisbon can't afford his wages.

Riggot has 3 years left and similarly he is on too much money for other clubs to buy him. Same for euell with regards to who wil pay his wages that we pay.

craig, schwarzer is a lot better keeper than pears.
Schwarzer has consistently been at the top level for over 10 years. pears did it once. pears was poor at crosses and too short. Pears made plenty of gaffs. ones that sticks in my mind were pompey in the fa cup at ayresome and derby scoring at the near post direct from a corner.

If schwarzer was english he would be in the england squad permanently. pears would struggle with the back pass rule

Posted by: alf  | May 17, 2007 1:14 PM

Pinkers wrote...

What about Ian Baird? He's got to be in just for his demolition of the skunks when we had to beat them to stay in Division 1 in 1990.

We stuffed em 4-1 and he must have gone round and personally wound up/intimidated every player in a black and white shirt that day

And after his cracking second goal he ran the length of the pitch high-fiving the whole front row of the south stand. Legend.

Posted by: Pinkers  | May 17, 2007 2:54 PM

Reverend_Honkytonk wrote...

Well said, Alf, re: our goalkeeper.

Sure he's had the odd gaffe, but which keeper hasn't?

He has been supremely consistent over the 10 years plus he's been here. Just remember who we had immediately before him, and shudder.

The only criticism I have of him really is that he needs to score more goals.

Posted by: Reverend_Honkytonk  | May 17, 2007 2:54 PM

Pinkers wrote...

And I'm sorry, Schwarzer is a great keeper and a great servant, and deserves to be in this list.

But Steve Pears is the best keeper I have seen at the Boro. He was just unbeatable at times.

Posted by: Pinkers  | May 17, 2007 2:55 PM

alf wrote...

Pinkers, pears played the majority of his time in the league below the top flight. You always look better playing agians Strikrs that are not top flight standard. He was a good keeper but jsut not as good as schwarzer. The golden 2 years under rioch will always cloud peoples judgement.

Posted by: alf  | May 17, 2007 3:14 PM

buffaloboro wrote...

The problem with ideas like this is that how many of us really know about the players who came before us ?

There needs to be better research into the old boys - pre 1960's. These 'Boro Best' promotions will have the usual suspects from the past 20 years , maybe 10...memories & a sense of history are short.

Posted by: buffaloboro  | May 17, 2007 3:32 PM

Stephen wrote...

Dean Glover for the 'enthusiastic' tackle on Trevor Francis immediately after Francis came on as a sub in his player-manager days. No ball in sight. Francis cried like a girl.... When he eventually got up. Beautiful.

I'd play 11 Dean Glovers if it was up to me like. We'd never actually score and we'd be down to 5 men in most games, but it would be pure entertainment. Then again, no right minded team would dare tackle a team of Deanos, so victory would be assured in all games.

A fantastic exponent of the ''simple ball'' and outstanding positional sense (right in the face of the oppositions best midfielder). Can we have another one please?.....Maybe if they start feeding Cattermole raw meat and car tyres he could become the next Dean Glover?!

Posted by: Stephen  | May 17, 2007 5:09 PM

alan wrote...

i saw george camsell play his last games for the boro and at the time older spectators used to talk about jacky carr.

Great post war players to me were ugolini, jimmy gordon, alec mcCrae, geoff walker, Delaphena who had the hardest shot ive ever seen

Posted by: alan  | May 17, 2007 6:36 PM

bororob wrote...

Boam, Cooper, Festa, Maddren, Mowbray, Pearson, Rooks & Southgate but no Pallister?

**AV writes: I think Pally has made the final 40.

Posted by: bororob  | May 17, 2007 7:01 PM

Steve Dyson wrote...

Er, not many have mentioned Brian Clough, and hopefully that's because they all agree with your mention and know he MUST be there. Goals, cult status, love (or certainly strong memories) of Middlesbrough.

He must surely be in the TOP TEN??

(Anyone else read Duncan Hamilton's new biog... As Long As You Don't Kiss Me?)

**AV writes: Not THE Steve Dyson surely?

Posted by: Steve Dyson  | May 17, 2007 9:14 PM

French Francks Big Knickers wrote...

Oh, Aye. I meant to tell the story behind the nom-de-plume.

Winter, a couple of seasons ago, we're playing at home, its not just cold, its f-f-f-f-f-flaming f-f-f-f-freezing!!! Not much to see on the pitch, typical post-christmas Boro.

Our seats are three rows from the front in the West Stand. Ball goes out of play in front of us. Up scampers Franck to take the throw. He bends over, buttocks to crowd and my missus, showing her real motivation for holding a season ticket, declares, "Francks got big knickers on!!!"

A whole block of the West Stand Lower silenced momentarily, then erupts in gales of laughter. Poor lad must've thought he'd ripped the seat of his shorts!!!

And for this reason, I would like to nominate Monsieur F Queudrue for your legends list.

Posted by: French Francks Big Knickers  | May 17, 2007 9:46 PM

Nigel wrote...

JP I understand your frustration with the transfer situation and with 'the clear out', but GS can only move out players under contract if they agree, so we're definitley stuck with Euell, Mendi will move this summer I'm sure.

The problem with a 'get them in early' transfer strategy is that it isn't solely in the clubs hands, agreeing a transfer must be hell on earth to organise, negotiations with club, agent, player, other clubs coming in at the last minute. Its a fact of life I'm afraid.

Alf - you really are Steve gibson aren't you? What did The Duke say when you phoned him and told him how much he was wanted........let me guess he had to hang up because Fergie was on the other line!

Posted by: Nigel  | May 18, 2007 9:48 AM

alf wrote...

nigel, you have sussed me.

What i said to viduka on the phone was that: "we are offering you a big contract to make you the joint highest player at the club alongside woodgate. DO the business for 2 years and we will give you a 1 year extension. you say you want to stay and are enjoying your football and family are settled.

"Sometimes money isnt everything. When you will be on 40,000 per week an extra 20,000 per week wont make that much difference when you have a few million stashed away. there is no guarantee that at your new club you will rediscover your form of this season where we play to your strengths"

Posted by: alf  | May 18, 2007 12:38 PM

Crum wrote...

Legends?

hmmmm, Right - Juninho has to be in there for the most attractive football middlesbrough will ever see in their history in my opinion. Maybe people will go huh? for my choice, but i think Pogatetz should be in there as a legend in the making.

Here's why - We all remember the immortal Gary Hamilton knocking heads in the midfield in the 80's and Jamie Pollock wrecklessly trying to play-by-kicking in the 90's don't we?

Pogatetz is a 2007 football player trapped in the body of an 80's nut case. No fear, 100% commitment, Loyal and reliable. I particularly love the way that if he can't catch a player he'll think nothing of carrying them through the advertising boards, and i truly regret him being stopped from catching Kevin Davies that time! (oh what would he have done?)

He relates to fans and is as pationate as the next, as i sat behind him when at home to Watford, he was chatting to us all and cheering when we scored, which in comparison to Jonathan Woodgate who was sat next to him, didn't move, didn't say a word and showed no emotion (and he was born here!).

So Poggy should be in and we should send the clearly money-grabbing-not-bothered woodgate back to Mardid to clean their toilets.

I Thank You.

Crum

Posted by: Crum  | May 18, 2007 12:41 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Nigel

Do you remember the poster who used Insider as his name, maybe Alf is Insider 2 (the sequel).

As for getting players in early, I fear I wil miss most of the activity because I am away at the back end of August. The big boys normally get their affairs sorted before the middle sized clubs and I cant see much changing.

If we are buying potential then we may be able to sign plyers ready for pre season, established players will be much later.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | May 18, 2007 1:18 PM

alf wrote...

Crum, you cant expect woodgate to be asa emotional when we score as he used to play for leeds and newcastle. He just needs to finish his career at sunderland to complete the collection

Posted by: alf  | May 18, 2007 3:23 PM

John Powls wrote...

Nigel, Alf

Thanks for pointimg out to me that Mendi is still on contract - I had thought he was a free agent at the end of June. But if we can't palm him off to the US - no-one in La Liga will have the slightest interest unless they're looking for a coach. - then surely a buy out of the rest of his contract at somewhere between 0 and the full termination value has got to be good business.

I won't repeat what I've endlessly said on here too much but I don't buy the 'it's not down to the club' line. Every business operates in a market; that's a given.

You can either sit around and bemoan that and be relatively less successful than your competitors or you can learn to operate in absolutely the best way for you in that market and have a strategy which you keep under review and apply.

For an example - see Bolton and Blackburn. And watch how Allardyce goes about it at The Barcodes if you think the knowledge and approach isn't transferrable.

We've lived - it seems like forever - with a Chief Exec and a Scouting system which thinks it all happens by accident and that you have to put up with what you get when everyone else has scraped the barrel. Not so - but we won't move on until we change that.

There is always impact too on the playing side. The later you get players in the less they are effective from the start of the season.

Posted by: John Powls  | May 19, 2007 11:58 AM

Adam Newton wrote...

I fink dat Alf wod was a legend me!

Posted by: Adam Newton  | May 19, 2007 5:38 PM

John Powls wrote...

.......and another thing (as an example of what my previous post was talking about).

Take the wide right sider we've known we've needed. Take Gera. Could have had him last close season - but no. Could have had him in January - on the fringes of The Baggies 1st team and even the lad had told his Hungarian international team-mates he was on his way here - but no.

So we then played any number of players wide right - none of whom were naturals in that position and barely played Mozza who is.

Now The Baggies look to be favourites to go up via the play-offs and Gera is back in favour there. So, if they do, will they be prepared to let him go and if they are how much more would he cost now than last Summer or January.

As the fabled Jim Royle would have it 'Transfer strategy - my a**e!'

Posted by: John Powls  | May 19, 2007 6:15 PM

Shaun wrote...

Just a quick one on Poggy, I think he optimises what a fan wants in a player. However at the moment, he is lacking in other areas to be a quality centre-half.

Crum, "putting someone through the advertising boards" will cost us points next year. While it's great he is enthusiastic and wants the team to do well when he's sitting it out, you have got to admit that he isn't a patch on Woodgate. However, I do think the two compliment each other.

We've seen nothing of Huth and with this latest injury blip, that £6m we spent is starting to look like a bit of a faux pas. AND, we bought when he was crocked. For me, the injury stresses the importance of keeping hold of Riggott now. I know we have Wheater et al, but we need cover Premiership experienced cover for the first choice centre-backs, if infact Riggs doesn't emerge as a potential candidate for one of the shirts himself.

Posted by: Shaun  | May 19, 2007 7:04 PM

ian cope wrote...

As a Fan & follower of the Boro since seeing my first match, I am surprised at some of the names mentioned, how do we describe a legend ?

Someone who played lots of games or a player who moved on to better things and improved our clubbs reputation because of the linkage.

I will mention the ones that have not been mentioned who I think should be included, Ray Bilcliff as fine a Full Back and a Stalwart, How about Cyril Knowles who coined the Phrase ( Nice one Cyril Etc ) and finally Ian Gibson who surely should be included if poor old Arthur Lightening is.

Posted by: ian cope  | May 19, 2007 10:10 PM

ian cope wrote...

Further to my message a couple of minutes ago, I meant to include Billy Horner as I know he was a regular for a few years and a favourite of mine.

Posted by: ian cope  | May 19, 2007 10:16 PM

Brian Kettlewell wrote...

Dont forget Dave Cummings and Johnny Spuhler, 2 of the Ayesome park hero,s of the 1950+

Posted by: Brian Kettlewell  | May 20, 2007 12:43 AM

Mohd Alan wrote...

AV

The following for no particular reason other than:

Arthur Kay, I was in danger of being crushed to death along with hundreds others at Roker park in the early sixties. My Dad and I along with several hundred others found temporary safety sat back from the touchline. Arthur Kaye runs up to take a throw in and says to my Dad bless him (Arthur and my Dad both) 'Get out of the f*****g way!"

Ray Bilcliff must hold the record for the most goals scored by a full back in a season, unfortunately they were all own goals. I remember one cracker, can't remember against who, when he beat two men on the edge of our penalty area swivelled and smashed the ball past a helpless Bob Appleby.

Cloughie allegedly use to ask him and the centre half (I know his name but I am not going to use it) 'tell me how many you are going to let in and I will score one more, he did as well except at Charlton when he could not quite manage it hence the 6 - 6 draw.

Eric McMordie for enabling us to sing "We've got McMordie so f*** off George Best. Same reason John O'Rourke 'Give us a goal John O'Rourke

Taffy Orrit played in every position for the Boro including goalie. Useless in every one, but he played in every one!!!

Nobby Stiles before the days of contact lenses spent every game kicking team mates and occasionally opponents up in the air.

I took my wife and son to a match Boro played in Kuala Lumpur, we met some Malaysian guys and I was telling them about the classy players we had. This was late nineties, age is catching up with me, cannot remember the name of the Irish full back we had. His passes were always on target, he found an opponent every time. George eat your heart out.

Anyhow in the first minute the classy KL winger took the ball on his chest, right in front of us about five yards in front of the line, when the full back came in and player, ball and all ended in touch. Wonderful. We were leading five nil after about half an hour when the KL goal keeper had to be stretchered off with a mystery injury that laid him low, when his team were in our half!!

Cheers

Posted by: Mohd Alan  | May 20, 2007 8:08 AM

Mohd Alan wrote...

AV

Knew I would remember the full backs name within ten seconds of sending my post!!!! Curtis Fleming

Cheers Mohd Alan

Posted by: Mohd Alan  | May 20, 2007 8:38 AM

Malc wrote...

Yep, I like Pogatetz too. A great young player and a gentleman off the field. I don;t agree with Nigel Pearson being in. Huge ego (just ask Phil Whelan) and lacked any kind of class as a player too. Pallister's beer-bellied second stint at the club excludes him too.

Posted by: Malc  | May 20, 2007 5:52 PM

Nigel wrote...

JP, I think you are spot on regarding 'Big Sam'. Boro could learn an awful lot from the way he set up and ran Bolton.

The irony is of course that he probably would have taken the Boro job a year ago which would have given GS a few years to build some management experience.

Still I think GS is doing well overall, this Summer will be the first indication of how good he is at signing the right players. For me though success will be determined on whether or not Viduka re-signs. If he doesn't it will be hard to move forward next year.

Posted by: Nigel  | May 21, 2007 10:30 AM

Norman Beswick wrote...

Two players I would regard as Legends from days gone by are Lindy Delapenha and Bill Harris.

Posted by: Norman Beswick  | May 21, 2007 11:03 AM

Neil (Baku) wrote...

John Craggs - probably the finest un-capped full back of his generation.

Not Terry Cooper - he spent the majority of his career with Leeds until Jack brought him to Boro, Leeds legend yes, Boro legend no. Otherwise we'd need to add the likes of Nobby Stiles and Bobby Murdoch as they also joined us in the twilight of their careers.

However to contradict myself, I would add Bryan Robson for the way he dragged us up by our boot laces with Gibbo and started the Riverside Revolution, he gave us The Academy, and his teams gave us some of the most entertaining and exciting times we've seen for years, the best roller coaster I've ever ridden on as a Boro fan, some of which we may never see again. Robbo, we salute you.

Posted by: Neil (Baku)  | May 21, 2007 1:27 PM

Rory wrote...

You missed John Craggs. What would we give for a contemporary Craggsy clone! And I would certainly leave out Ravinelli.

Posted by: Rory  | May 23, 2007 1:28 PM

michael wrote...

i would have mikel beck, andrew davies, trevor putney, garry gill, branco, beck, parnaby, phil whelan, jason ewell

Posted by: michael  | June 14, 2007 12:34 AM