Help Shape Boro List of Legends

This seems like a very nice way to fill some space in a summer short on football!

I don't really see the point of it - hasn't it all been done to death before?

What's the point in it - will the final thing just be a newspaper article or will there be more to it?

Yours, Alf. No, sorry, Rev. HonkyTonk.

P.S. Mark Schwarzer should be in there. Our best ever keeper, an unsung hero. And he's been very loyal, despite the shennanigans of last season.

**AV writes: It will fill some space yes but the point of it is that we were approached by the Twe12th Man who are planning a new banner to feature ten Boro legends and want as many peopel as possible to help choose them.

Anyone could draw up a list of the usual suspects but the point is to widen the franchise so as many people as possible can feel that they have had an imput and can feel some kind of ownership of the banner.

Yes, Schwarzer is a good one, although I have deliberately kept away from current players because you never know, they may leave and become hate figures before the paint is dry.

Well two stand out to me AV.

No Mark Schwarzer? One of Boro's best-ever signings and easily our best goalkeeper (with no disrespect to Steve Pears, Platt, or Willie Wigham).

And even if he were to leave he could hardly be accused of disloyalty, I doubt he would ever be a 'hate-figure' in the way that, say, Paul Merson became.

And what about....Stan Cummins?

**AV writes: I refer the honourable gentlemen to my previous answer. I think 'legends' is a concept that implies that the achievement is in the past but I am open to persuasion.

I'll add the little fella to the bubbling under list.

Trever senior for his play off goals.

Branca and fuchs for helping us get promoted.

How about merson who was the main reasoin we got promoted.

**AV writes: Suggesting Merson is rolling a handgrenade in. Maybe we should open a vote for another banner and Merson could feature alongside Ziege and Peter Beagrie.

alan kernaghan for proving the boo boys wrong,scoring an outstanding hat trick at blackburn and becoming a boro centre back and captain.

paul kerr for his goal in the zenith cup semi final.

not a very democratic approach. Cant you run an online survey?

**AV writes: No, I don't have the facilities to do such a thing. I think even on the main Gazette site the poll feature only allows you six or so options.

Have you got a nomination or not?

I think Terry Cochrane is worth a shout. NI international, a goal against Swansea that often featured on motd compilations and possibly still playing local football today.

Jan Aage Fjortoft!! He was a legend!!

And had he played half as many as he missed a certian Alen Boksic would've been an option! He was still a class act though!

Gary Hamilton, who had to pack in after playing through injury for the cause. His commitment is put into perspective in an age where Boro fans have seen mega-bukcs earners like Boksic and Viduka miss games because they were 'suffering' from a runny nose.

Wasn't it Tony McAndrew who lamped Johnston after the Wolves game?

I'm scratching my head to better your list AV, although the whole of the '74 team should be there, particularly, Foggon and Mills and you need to put Hickton back!

I particularly like the 'role of shame' idea I think that would be very theraputic!

Good to see Dickie Rooks who played when we had white shoulders to our shirts and looked like the proverbial brick outhouse.

Gordon Jones, as cultured a left back as we ever had.

Eric McMordie, the man who played so well at Millwall Stan Anderson dropped him because the rest were rubbish!

Arthur Horsfield, everyone remembers Hicktons and O'Rourkes goals in the third division promotion year but it was his goals in a barren spell that kept us in the hunt including two at home to Darlo.

Roll of shame

George Kinnell, or as he was affectionately known following his transfer from Sunderland f***ingell. Famous for playing basketball in our area at Derby when we were 2-1 up and eventually lost 3-2.

Arthur Lightning - a bit of a misnomer for a goalkeeper of dubious character. Can I say that AV?

Graham Kelly - say no more but please pass the salt.

**AV writes: I reckon you can get away with that but let's not take it any further.

What about Dean Glover(every one remembers where they were when we were told he was leaving)

the manager phoned his wife after a match and told her that Dean had broke a leg there was a pause and then she said "who's"

Christian Ziege. Oh he was unloyal, but remember he single handedly got us to 9th position. At home as left wing back or central midield, I can not think of a more complete player to wear the Boro shirt. The fact we were able to get him at 27-years-old for 4.5m from AC Milan still has me scratching my head.

My nomination for loyalty to the club is the ever present JIMMY GORDON. Although Jimmy never played for his country (Scotland), his performances in the red shirt were easily equal to those of such contemporaries as Billy Wright (Wolves) and other much lauded internationals.

At the end of his playing days with the Boro, he joined Blackburn Rovers as a trainer. His next appearance at Ayresome Park was the night he trotted on to the field carrying a bucket of water and a sponge. The thunderous and prolonged applause must have been heared as far away as Whitby.

This was the fans tribute to Jimmy for his past loyalty and dedication to Boro FC. All that for ten pounds a week with a two pounds bonus for a win.

One player who was wrongfully omitted from the Brick Road Legends IMHO was Bill Harris. He played for the Boro for 11 years (1954-65), was captain for a while, was a Welsh International, scored Boro's fastest ever goal and also scored more than 70 goals for the Boro.

I wouldn't expect to see him in the All Time 20 top Boro players ever but I was annoyed that Boro diddn't include him on the Brick Road as he gave far more to the club than some of the names on the Road ever did.

(Yes, all right, I used to know him as well!)

what about eric mcmordie,allan foggan,you nugget how dare you miss these great players,

Andy Townsend?
Always 150% ! Shame about the punditry.

Roll of shame - Keith O'Neill, Michael "Pieman" Ricketts.

John Craggs, Frank Spraggon - two of the hardest fullbacks you'd ever come a cross. Foundation of Big Jack's team, and the platform for the likes of David Mills to do his jinky stuff. You can't leave them out.

AV – Probably all mentioned already

Mark Schwarzer
John Craggs
Tony Mowbary
Willie Maddren
Gordon Jones
Stuart Ripley
Heine Otto
Dean Glover
John Hendrie
Juninho
Bosco Jankovic

Subs
Stephen Pears
Stuart Boam
David Armstrong
Graeme Souness
John Hickton

Deano is a particular favourite, decking Gary Bennett endeared him to all Boro fans from the start.

If crunching tackles are a recommendation does that mean Morrison gets in for launching Ronaldo?

It probably made him the most popular footballer in Britain on the night, all the neutrals thought it was a job well done but we must not condone foul play.

Bill Gates a name to conjure with because the refs certainly did. He had a spell where he was sent off or booked in nearly every game he played. We even nicknamed him SeGat Llib because the refs could spell his name backwards.

Will Viduka make the roll of honour or shame. Rumours have it that Manu are interested. I wonder who first floated that idea? (A seamless link if ever I saw one)

It could be a lot of hot air from his agent, just like scott browns agent using boro. so then they hope boro come back with a better contract for viduka.

I am expecting viduka to have his future sorted out pretty quick. He will be wanting to go on holiday soon as he is playing in the summer for australia in a tournament. I think he will want is future sorted out within 10 days where ever it is.

Ray Yeoman - played over 200 consecutive games for Boro over 6 years (58-64)and was as comitted and loyal to the Boro as any of the aforementioned. Plus he was as hard as nails and never shirked from any tackle! (Ask your grandad)

how anyone can place Mark Schwarzer above stephen pears in the pecking order mystifys me.

how many gaffs can you count from one keeper? Old trafford beckham through the body; cardiff in league cup final didnt he let a clanger there too. ( and more )

pearsy was a great all round keeper and if it were not for injuries he would of defitnally had plenty of caps for england.

I wouldn't have Ravanelli in there, he might have scored a fair few goals for us but he never really wanted to be here. I'd much rather see jan Aage Fjortoft in the list, at least he did something meaningful and seemed to love playing for the Boro.

**AV writes: He scored at Wembley!

Mendieta still has a year left on his contract. I expect him to go in september once teh spanish season is starting up. We will probably pay up part of his contract.

Rocky isnt going anywhere and has 3 years left on his contract. Lisbon can't afford his wages.

Riggot has 3 years left and similarly he is on too much money for other clubs to buy him. Same for euell with regards to who wil pay his wages that we pay.

craig, schwarzer is a lot better keeper than pears.
Schwarzer has consistently been at the top level for over 10 years. pears did it once. pears was poor at crosses and too short. Pears made plenty of gaffs. ones that sticks in my mind were pompey in the fa cup at ayresome and derby scoring at the near post direct from a corner.

If schwarzer was english he would be in the england squad permanently. pears would struggle with the back pass rule

Well said, Alf, re: our goalkeeper.

Sure he's had the odd gaffe, but which keeper hasn't?

He has been supremely consistent over the 10 years plus he's been here. Just remember who we had immediately before him, and shudder.

The only criticism I have of him really is that he needs to score more goals.

Pinkers, pears played the majority of his time in the league below the top flight. You always look better playing agians Strikrs that are not top flight standard. He was a good keeper but jsut not as good as schwarzer. The golden 2 years under rioch will always cloud peoples judgement.

Dean Glover for the 'enthusiastic' tackle on Trevor Francis immediately after Francis came on as a sub in his player-manager days. No ball in sight. Francis cried like a girl.... When he eventually got up. Beautiful.

I'd play 11 Dean Glovers if it was up to me like. We'd never actually score and we'd be down to 5 men in most games, but it would be pure entertainment. Then again, no right minded team would dare tackle a team of Deanos, so victory would be assured in all games.

A fantastic exponent of the ''simple ball'' and outstanding positional sense (right in the face of the oppositions best midfielder). Can we have another one please?.....Maybe if they start feeding Cattermole raw meat and car tyres he could become the next Dean Glover?!

Boam, Cooper, Festa, Maddren, Mowbray, Pearson, Rooks & Southgate but no Pallister?

**AV writes: I think Pally has made the final 40.

Oh, Aye. I meant to tell the story behind the nom-de-plume.

Winter, a couple of seasons ago, we're playing at home, its not just cold, its f-f-f-f-f-flaming f-f-f-f-freezing!!! Not much to see on the pitch, typical post-christmas Boro.

Our seats are three rows from the front in the West Stand. Ball goes out of play in front of us. Up scampers Franck to take the throw. He bends over, buttocks to crowd and my missus, showing her real motivation for holding a season ticket, declares, "Francks got big knickers on!!!"

A whole block of the West Stand Lower silenced momentarily, then erupts in gales of laughter. Poor lad must've thought he'd ripped the seat of his shorts!!!

And for this reason, I would like to nominate Monsieur F Queudrue for your legends list.

nigel, you have sussed me.

What i said to viduka on the phone was that: "we are offering you a big contract to make you the joint highest player at the club alongside woodgate. DO the business for 2 years and we will give you a 1 year extension. you say you want to stay and are enjoying your football and family are settled.

"Sometimes money isnt everything. When you will be on 40,000 per week an extra 20,000 per week wont make that much difference when you have a few million stashed away. there is no guarantee that at your new club you will rediscover your form of this season where we play to your strengths"

Nigel

Do you remember the poster who used Insider as his name, maybe Alf is Insider 2 (the sequel).

As for getting players in early, I fear I wil miss most of the activity because I am away at the back end of August. The big boys normally get their affairs sorted before the middle sized clubs and I cant see much changing.

If we are buying potential then we may be able to sign plyers ready for pre season, established players will be much later.

Nigel, Alf

Thanks for pointimg out to me that Mendi is still on contract - I had thought he was a free agent at the end of June. But if we can't palm him off to the US - no-one in La Liga will have the slightest interest unless they're looking for a coach. - then surely a buy out of the rest of his contract at somewhere between 0 and the full termination value has got to be good business.

I won't repeat what I've endlessly said on here too much but I don't buy the 'it's not down to the club' line. Every business operates in a market; that's a given.

You can either sit around and bemoan that and be relatively less successful than your competitors or you can learn to operate in absolutely the best way for you in that market and have a strategy which you keep under review and apply.

For an example - see Bolton and Blackburn. And watch how Allardyce goes about it at The Barcodes if you think the knowledge and approach isn't transferrable.

We've lived - it seems like forever - with a Chief Exec and a Scouting system which thinks it all happens by accident and that you have to put up with what you get when everyone else has scraped the barrel. Not so - but we won't move on until we change that.

There is always impact too on the playing side. The later you get players in the less they are effective from the start of the season.

.......and another thing (as an example of what my previous post was talking about).

Take the wide right sider we've known we've needed. Take Gera. Could have had him last close season - but no. Could have had him in January - on the fringes of The Baggies 1st team and even the lad had told his Hungarian international team-mates he was on his way here - but no.

So we then played any number of players wide right - none of whom were naturals in that position and barely played Mozza who is.

Now The Baggies look to be favourites to go up via the play-offs and Gera is back in favour there. So, if they do, will they be prepared to let him go and if they are how much more would he cost now than last Summer or January.

As the fabled Jim Royle would have it 'Transfer strategy - my a**e!'

As a Fan & follower of the Boro since seeing my first match, I am surprised at some of the names mentioned, how do we describe a legend ?

Someone who played lots of games or a player who moved on to better things and improved our clubbs reputation because of the linkage.

I will mention the ones that have not been mentioned who I think should be included, Ray Bilcliff as fine a Full Back and a Stalwart, How about Cyril Knowles who coined the Phrase ( Nice one Cyril Etc ) and finally Ian Gibson who surely should be included if poor old Arthur Lightening is.

Dont forget Dave Cummings and Johnny Spuhler, 2 of the Ayesome park hero,s of the 1950+

AV

Knew I would remember the full backs name within ten seconds of sending my post!!!! Curtis Fleming

Cheers Mohd Alan

JP, I think you are spot on regarding 'Big Sam'. Boro could learn an awful lot from the way he set up and ran Bolton.

The irony is of course that he probably would have taken the Boro job a year ago which would have given GS a few years to build some management experience.

Still I think GS is doing well overall, this Summer will be the first indication of how good he is at signing the right players. For me though success will be determined on whether or not Viduka re-signs. If he doesn't it will be hard to move forward next year.

John Craggs - probably the finest un-capped full back of his generation.

Not Terry Cooper - he spent the majority of his career with Leeds until Jack brought him to Boro, Leeds legend yes, Boro legend no. Otherwise we'd need to add the likes of Nobby Stiles and Bobby Murdoch as they also joined us in the twilight of their careers.

However to contradict myself, I would add Bryan Robson for the way he dragged us up by our boot laces with Gibbo and started the Riverside Revolution, he gave us The Academy, and his teams gave us some of the most entertaining and exciting times we've seen for years, the best roller coaster I've ever ridden on as a Boro fan, some of which we may never see again. Robbo, we salute you.

i would have mikel beck, andrew davies, trevor putney, garry gill, branco, beck, parnaby, phil whelan, jason ewell