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Sell, Sell, Sell

Posted by on January 7, 2007 11:45 PM | 

MASSIMO Maccarone is being touted round Italy's answer to Watford, Sheffield United and Boro and can go on a free this month - if he is willing to take a wage cut. If not, then the £8.15m record signing, will be released in the summer after four year of earning £20,000 a week.

Ugo Ehiogu, an £8m man when he arrived, is looking for a club now too - again his 20k plus income is the stumbling block - or he too will be released come June. And £2.5m midfield misfit Fabio Rochemback is hoping for a financial equation that bridges the wage gap to take him back to Sporting, probably on a free. Meanwhile the club are playing footsie with £4.5m hitman Mark Viduka over a new deal with the clock ticking down on his exit of nothing is agreed.

That is £23m worth of investment - plus the wages that have been thrown at them - walking away with no financial return and with a punative knock-on cost for replacements. And people are worried about Boro's record when it comes to buying players?

Buying players is the easy bit. Pile enough cash on the table and their eyes will roll up three cherries and they will come; Boro demonstrated that as they bought top earners like Ravanelli, Boksic and Karembeu. But when was the last time the club showed they could play the other side of the game shrewdly and sold a player at a tidy profit?

In the early years of Robbo there was a substantial quick return on the big investments, although admittedly the club had their arms twisted on most. Juninho arrived for £4.25m and bailed out to Atletico after relegation for £12.3m, Nick Barmby came in for £5.25m and out for a £1m profit just over a year later, shifting serial victim Paul Merson made a £1m surplus and escape clause specialist Christian Ziege made £3m plus High Court costs while the club broke even on both £7m Ravanelli and £4.5m Emerson. Given the three cup finals and a few years of unprecedented drama and glamour that spending produced it was not a bad return.

But Steve McClaren's reign saw an average outlay of £10m a season on transfers... and how much came back in that time? You will struggle to name a major out-going transfer. Cut-price deals and players released, usually with sizeable pay-offs, or contracts running out.

In that spell we have been in negative equity. In recent years almost all the major investment in team strengthening has eventaully been written off. Last summer, free-transfers Hasselbaink and Doriva were released along with Frank Queudrue going to Fulham for an undisclosed fee while Szilard Nemeth and Joseph Job also were let go after spells out on loan. That batch wasn't as costly as this summer's will be in terms but they still represent a significant level of depreciation and they still needed replacing, albeit on the cheap.

And of the current squad how many would make a profit? We could maybe get our money back on Yakubu with a fair wind but who else that was bought in is worth serious cash? Robert Huth has yet to prove he is a £6m man, Boateng would be hard to shift given his age and form, Pogotetz only really looks assured alongside Woodgate so unless we can interest Real Madrid he is an unknown quantity and who would buy Viduka given he is free in the summer.

Even the kids, refreshing and potential laden though they are, are hard to put a price on. Would Stuart Parnaby, Lee Cattermole or James Morrison instantly command a first team place in any other Premiership team? Who realistically would buy them just yet? Stewart Downing is the only sure-fire instant profit in the team - but is the player they can least afford to lose.

That is pretty poor really. All that investment and we can't cash in our chips. We must assume that either the players weren't as good as their initial price tag suggested, in which case the judgement of scouts and managers and negotiating skills of the clubchiefs are open to criticism, or that the club are not shifting players on at the optimum moment to make a profit which again raises serious questions over the way the club plays the market.

Clearly the club are aware of this financially damaging trend. It has contributed to the thrifty climate that has Keith Lamb warning that Teesside will get the club it can afford, underpins the widely publicised need for Gareth Southgate to shift players off the wage bill before he can buy, says something about the reported new turn to players of potential in the lower leagues and, in the long term maybe more significantly, the emphasis placed on the academy.

Once it was derogatory to be labelled as "a selling club" but that is the only healthy state for a club the size of Boro. Not panic driven closing down sales of the sort we saw at Ayresome under Amer but targeted sales at the optimum point in a players career and with sole aim being the generate the cash to reinvest and improve the team.

Buying big name players at overly inflated prices and then paying other teams to take them away in the last year of their deal is financial suicide and the only alternatives are to have a more astute grassroots scouting network to find better, younger and cheaper players then selling them on for a profit, or finding your own talent and nurturing it through to the first team.

That will be the next big leap forward for Boro, when the kids coming through are not stop-gaps in the first team but are the subject of specualtion that they are poised for big money moves. When Boro start selling again - at a profit - it will be a healthy sign of progress.


Comments (29)

John Powls wrote...

Vic

Errr, yes, well.....agree up until the last sentence. If it said 'in a position to sell at a profit'. That would mean we were doing our job with the players we'd brought in, raised trough the Academy and developed.

I'd also like us to be able to hold on because of the prospects and ambition of the club. You'd still win some and lose some and you can never blame a player for wanting to better themselves if the mega-offer comes but staying ought to be a serious consideration in their minds.

I used a word in the first paragraph which, to my mind, is a key to this - 'develop'. Of all the players we have brought in over recent years how many can we say that we improved or improved themselves as players whilst they were here?

I can think of only 2 - Bolo and, this season's current contender Pogo. There have been others, like Ziege, that we have taken a chance on and given a chance to in order to resurrect a blighted career but that's not the same thing.

How many of our excellent crop of youngsters who have made it to the first team squad continue their rate of development once there? Not many - and some, like Stewie, seem to have gone backwards.

What does that say about our coaching? Quite a lot, I think, and not much of it good.

One of the legacies of The Ex was an anti-coaching culture. I'm not talking about whatever high flown concepts he was pulling from books about gridiron football but day to day, week to week work with players to improve their skills and the motivation to go with it.

He came from the school which believed that since the players should have already been more skillful than the coaches were they had nothing to learn from them. Wrong

The stories are legion of the great technicians and flare players who get their technique and flare by endless skill practice. In any profession, and particularly a competitive one, anyone who stops learning and improving is already on the down slope.

Also, many of the world's great sporting coaches were not themselves top players of their sport - the skills involved are different.

When respected, coaches can also be challenging and demanding of players to produce their best and to get better. How often has that been apparent at Boro recently?

At a team level that individual development can be added to by playing people in their right position, a team shape that works and by a further dose of team ethic.

I think a reputation for bringing players on at whatever stage they were at in their careers would be an attraction for people to come and to stay.

That is not our reputation and the reputation we do have has been richly earned over recent years.

Posted by: John Powls  | January 8, 2007 8:55 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

The theory is that each part of the supply chain adds value to the product or service. In our case they depreciate quicker than a new car!

In the case of Ugo he had reached the end of his shelf life so he can be 'written off'. The worrying thing is the fact many have been or are worthless not through age but what we have managed to do to their talent or the fact they were overpriced in the first place.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 8, 2007 9:30 AM

Udayan Mukherjee wrote...

AV, When Lamb made those comments, I believe that it was aimed at the fans for not turning up. Now, I have been told on many occasions that in terms of finances season ticket money is peanuts compared to the proportion earned through TV and transfer revenue. Is this actually the case, and do you have a ball park figure for these stats and how much a club like Boro can turnover in a year?

**AV writes:

I understand that less than 30% of revenue is through the gate whereas at Ayresome it was about 90%. Next year's enhanced TV deal (the minimum will rise from £17m per season to almost £30m) will make the fans direct contribution even smaller so to point the finger at fans for falling revenues seems to be mainly political spin.

Assuming an average of £400 per ticket (and given the number of cheap kids' ticket taken up this year that may be generous) and 22,000 season ticket holders then guaranteed gate income is £8.8m although you have to allow for the extra income from casual fans, away fans and cup games on top.

Posted by: Udayan Mukherjee  | January 8, 2007 10:11 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

JP

Following on from your blog it was interesting that MacMoses was talking about increasing the size of coaching staffs. Im sure this follows on from his interest in Gridiron and reflects the idea of scripting everything, constant tinkering, changing line ups, obsession with the opposition, being generally 'clever'.

The great players have high skill levels but operate within a team ethic, have vision and flair allied to high work rates. Downing started out with all the these but the first team coaching system at the Boro tried to make him a clone. Tuck in, work back, tuck in.

Maccarone came as a budding star. When my son and I saw him destroying defences in the U21s we said we would love him at the Boro. We thought he was a great signing and he started well. How much is his current situation a reflection of the coaching set up.

Bolo came as a winger who didnt want to play on the wing. He changed to central midfield not out of some grandiose masterplan but because there was no one else due to injuries. The same with Downing, Morrison etc. Dont forget, I believe Mac was all for Downing to Wigan but SG stopped it.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 8, 2007 10:57 AM

Neil (Baku) wrote...

Vic,

I don't agree with everything you said, but I do believe that we are not the only club that is struggling to balance the books. It's just that some others do it a hell of a lot better, Bolton are a typical example.

The philosophy at Boro appears to have been, get experience in until the academy production line kicks in, then gradually feed them into the team as the experienced players retire or move on. Of course we all know that it just hasn't happened.

Lamby and Co are the common denominators in all of the deals struck by a succession of managers and coaches, and it is down to the clubs mismanagement in these areas that now sees us stuck with un-saleable assetts that are bleeding the club dry and stopping us finding players that we all know we need just to survive at this level.

It never ceases to amaze me how the club have consistently offered ridiculus lengthy expensive contracts to players who are quite clearly over the hill, and yet they stall and eventually lose players of Bolo's calibre.

I think we are seeing the beginnings of a re-think in terms of budget management at Boro, not before time and I certainly believe Gibbo needs to re-think his vision for a team of Teessiders playing top class football at the Riverside, however whatever happens it will be a long job, even if we do succeed in writing off and clearing out the players who are no longer required.

Sadly it may take more time than we have this season if we are to retain PL status in readiness for the alledged Sky windfall in the summer.

Posted by: Neil (Baku)  | January 8, 2007 11:05 AM

red_rebel wrote...

Writing off so much investment is lunacy. It shows more than anything how badly we have bought. not neccessarily that the players are bad, but that getting them at above a certain age and on long contracts with high basics is a recipe for disaster.

It has become the norm now for players to either leave Boro on frees like Maccarone will or to be released with Boro payinga slice of their wages for years to come, as with Ricketts, a spectacularly bad buy you did not mention.

Boro should make a cast iron policy not to offer anyone over 30 more than two years. It should be policy to have a low basic (low! I mean £10K for Christ sake, its not NMW) but a generous bonus scheme for appearances, wins and league finish. That gives the players an incentive to perform and protects the club from under-achievement.

Some will say that is a bad idea because it will immediately mean Boro are not in the market for a certain type of player, big names, big earners but let's be honest, apart from the odd few those types have never delivered for us.

We supposedly have a brilliant academy. We should use it then. We should be looking at buying hungry young players and polishing them, getting the best for two or three years then selling on at a profit and only buy big when it is absolutely essential.

Once you get a reputation of bringing players on and being a stepping stone to bigger things then the best and most promising young players will want to come as it will be a good career move.


Posted by: red_rebel  | January 8, 2007 11:47 AM

Zuccinho wrote...

AV is spot on. Anyone who has ever played Champ Manager knows how easy it is to buy a £25k bargain from Stockport County and turn them into a £30m Henry-style hitman? Why can't Boro do it?

Seriously, we are terrible like this and - as AV says - it seems nonsense to winge about the few hundred thousand we lose in gate money from fans not being so keen when each season we write off a fortune in wasted assets.

Harry Redknapp never does this. In fact, the only other clubs I readily think of as following a similar pattern are Man U and Chelsea who can afford to because they keep the gems and turn out results.

BTW does anyone know what price Quedrue actually went to Fulham for? It would be a disgrace if he went for less than what we paid for him as he was a comparative success story at boro.

Posted by: Zuccinho  | January 8, 2007 1:11 PM

J.C. Marske wrote...

All the above postings are pretty much on the ball and state the obvious, at least to the fans.

red_rebel is saying the obvious as regards long term contracts for players over 30. A prime example is Boatang who screwed a new four year contract out of th club, if that is fact he should have been shown the door.

The club should take a leaf out of Arsenal's book they do not offer anything longer than one or two years contracts for players over 30. Where the Boro miss a trick is not to realize that just as players get stale so do the coaching staff and need to be replaced at intervals.

One of the other problems of course is with a few exceptions, the lack of motivation for continuous improvement by the players, once they have played a few game for the first team they believe all the hype they are fed that they are best thing since sliced bread.

How many of them I wonder stay back to practice the skills they are weak on? Ravanelli when he was here complained about the commitment of the squad and very often put in an extra two hours by himself.

I have read somewhere that in a few years time the cash paid by we fans will be irrelevant and we will all get in free. With all the cheating diving and shirt tugging that goes on as well as non-competitive Premier League and Fa Cup competitions grounds will still not be full.

Its a fact the premiership title and the Fa cup have been exclusive to four teams in the last twelve years, the only team to break into the big four was Blackburn.

Posted by: J.C. Marske  | January 8, 2007 2:24 PM

Nigel wrote...

AV how do you get the transfer fees for Massimo, Ugo and Fabio to add up to £23M? The fact is they cost £15, isn't it? The rest is the wage bill which clearly isn't an investment.

What's more what decent football club buys players to make a profit for goodness sake! Didn't Steve Gibson say that the clubs aim was sporting glory? Whats that got to do with profit? Nothing.

Your arguement is weak, £8m for Ugo was the going rate for one of the best defenders in the prem. at the time. Now he's past his best, simple as that. For all the excellent performances he put in when on top form thats a good return. As for Fabio well selling him for say £1.0m and loosing £1.5m is hardly the end of the world is it?

The only dud as far as I can see out of those mentioned has been Massimo, it was a risk which didn't pay, but he scored the goals which propelled us into the UEFA cup final, so what price sporting glory? Money well spent I reckon.

As for The Duke he cost £4.5m and has been worth every penny, if he goes on a free the loss will not be financial but it will be a big sporting loss because he is a class act.

The idea that some buys have been bad ones because we didn't make a profit when the players left is quite frankly daft. Surely we don't want them to leave when they are on top form do we, surely its a positive that Ugo for example has given us the best years of his career.

This is a football club and not a plc, profit is irrelevant, the trick is to live within the clubs means as long as we do that we're okay. Anyone who thinks we should be selling players for profit has lost the plot.

**AV writes: Ugo £8m, Massimo £8m, Viduka £4.5m, Rocky £2.5m... I make that £23m - I dread to think what the wages cost on top.

They will almost certainly all leave on a free transfers. What ever the argument about their contributions that is a big loss for a small club to take, and one that could have been mitigated by timely sales before their contract is up.

It is not a specific point about individual players, more a general one that there should be a rolling recruitment programme with departures financing new arrivals. That means buying players of a different profile.

Well run clubs do sell players to make money. It makes more sense to sell to finance the next purchase than it does to let people leave on a free then find the money for fresh recruitment elsewhere from the club coffers. We are not Chelsea or Manchester United.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2007 2:29 PM

Nigel wrote...

I still don't agree that players should be sold while they are worth the same or more than they were bought for. For example if we had sold Viduka for £4.5m a year ago who would we have replaced him with that was better value?

Should we be selling Stewie to Spurs now for £6m? If so who would be an equally good player or better who costs less to replace him with?

Players are depreciating assets largely speaking, certainly once they are in their late twenties. Realistically we could not buy players in their early twenties whose careers are on the rise because they go to the big four.

I don't know of a single manager who does not have a patchy transfer signing record (except prehaps Wenger). Its a risky business full of unknowns.

I would like to know 'the well run' prem. club that sells its good players at a profit on a regular basis out of choice rather than because they want to leave because they have had the call from Chelski.

Surely what well run clubs do is spend their money wisely, and try to develop as many players as poss. through an academy.

I just don't think the arguement stacks up. It's not that long ago you were writing that Spurs bidding for Stewie was an outrage, was that not an opportunity to sell a player at a big profit?

**AV writes: I wouldn't sell Stewy for £6m because he is still appreciating in value and can be a central figure in the next two or three teams if utilised wisely. That said, if that was the case then a big money offer would eventually come in from one of the big clubs and the then manager would have to consider it, especially if it meant strengthening in two or three other key areas.

But if we had been offered £4.5m a year ago for Viduka I would have taken it. That way you would have had two decent years and got your money back on a player rapidly reaching his sell-by date and depreciating rapidly.

The key is to spend that cash wisely on a replacement but if you do it on a rolling programme and are thinking at least one year ahead then we would not get to crisis point every three years where a lot of ageing players are leaving at once and all need to be replaced.


Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2007 3:52 PM

Nigel wrote...

Just read the previous 'sales frenzy' article, it made me smile, very amusing. Several years ago I bought several designer label shirts in Binns at bargain prices.

Should I have sold them on for a profit or used them for the intended purpose of wearing them to work with a jacket and tie? They're worn out now but hopefully I can move them out on a free to Charity Shop Utd.

On a slightly more serious note, should GS have said he wasn't intending to buy anyone in the transfer window whether that was the case or not?

If so would we all be screaming that he was mad and that it was blindingly obvious that we needed a right midfield and a striker.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't..... Prem. players are overpaid but whatever GS is paid he earns.

**AV writes: Very good. But If you have spent wisely on quality garments you should and could have moved them on after two years. Haven't you heard of Ebay? You can even get the buyers to pay for the post and packaging.

I'm not against spending, just in favour of targeted and sustainable spending rather than rash splurges on goods with built in obsolesence.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2007 4:31 PM

Nigel wrote...

I have heard of e-bay, but I'm desperatley trying to keep it a secret from my wife. I'm an amazon fan personally.

Your point about selling a player at the top of his value curve is spot on. But surely the trick is knowing when that is. Should The Boat have been moved on 18 months ago. If I remember rightly we were, a year ago, all desperately praying he accepted a new contract and yet this season.......

**AV writes: That is indeed the trick and one we need to learn.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 8, 2007 4:57 PM

alf wrote...

massimo has earned 20,000 a week for 5 season and cost £8M. thats over 13M! thats a good chuck of season ticket money. we could have all got in for a fiver all season for that money!

if TV revenue is going to bring in an extra £13m then why not pass that onto season ticket holders. by slashing ticket prices in half. where else will that money go apart from players salaries?if that money is not passed onto the fans then next season will be my last at the riverside

and why were mfc naive to give boateng a big contract that no one else would offer. once a player reaches 30, any contract extension should be no more than 2 years. it seems normal practise for players to get given a nice lucrative contract near the end of their careers. its like a little pension payment. thats why viduka should get no more than 2 years.

club complain they have to put up prices to keep up with other clubs. but also they need to be less reckless in signing players and giving long contracts. Why not invest a few million in decent scouts then less risk of signing spuds on reputations

Posted by: alf  | January 8, 2007 5:12 PM

alf wrote...

sadly we have a reputation of buying players passed their peak and to get them to come to boro we offer them long term financial security. eg parlour!

Now that reminds me of juninho who was released on a free and pay off only 2 years into a 4 year deal. even though he had scored about 8 league goals. how many midfielders can do that? its madness really!!the club needs to be cautious with spending money if they continue to fleece the fans and plead poverty when fans want cheaper ticket prices

Posted by: alf  | January 8, 2007 5:16 PM

dave wrote...

players who had too long contracts or sat on their backsides earning too much:-

christie,massimo,ricketts,ugo,mendieta,parlour,rocky,riggot add up all that wage and you wont get change from 200,000 per week.

When was the last time we brought in a couple of million from a sale. Robson got a lot of stick for his spending but he also broguh in a lot of cash. DOnt think McClaren brought in very much.

more money comes into the game, the more clubs waste on players and the higher salaries go. its all relative and teams arnt much better than 10 years ago.

WOuld be interested to know what our wage bill is now compared to under robson

Posted by: dave  | January 8, 2007 5:21 PM

adam wrote...

You need to look at the boro squad as a conveyor belt. club just looking at one section of it and not doing anything until something falls off the conveyor belt at the end.

They conveyor belt needs sensors to tell the conveyor belt manager that things are about to wear out or fall off soon, then they can be replaced in the summer when the conveyor belt is not in use.

otherwise everything falls off and messes things up and then foreign cheap parts come in to keep it going but they break down a lot and excpensive to maintain.

a little foresight and long term planning can keep the conveyor belt running smoothly. trouble is football clubs are only concerned with how the conveyor belt is running, making money and whats coming out of it at that moment

Posted by: adam  | January 8, 2007 5:35 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Even Wenger has bought his share of bloopers, we just dont hear about them. A succession of Liverpool managers bought some real plonkers.

As AV says it is the trick of getting it right, buying and selling at the appropriate times. And a matter of getting the contracts right. As I said in my earlier posting we got a good run out of Ugo, the mistake was the length of his last contract.

Where we do fall down is what we do to most players values. I can accept that certain players wont appreciate in value because of their age. What I can't accept is the ability to turn good young players into give aways or even worse pay to take aways.

The other area in which we are woeful is in bringing in young talent from elsewhere and developing it. I cant remember the last time we bought a lower league player, brought him on and sold for a profit. Or even worse, actually got any benefit at all from a lower league player.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 8, 2007 6:13 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Before I forget, a word to Nigel.

My wife can shut a whole computer network by laying on of hands, sort of faith healer in reverse. Has no idea about computers, loses documents, locks the computer, changings settings without knowing what she is doing.

A good analogy would be the Alan Foggon of the keyboard but when it comes to shopping on line she transforms into Thierry Henry. Amazon, M&S, it makes no difference, sweet as a nut every time.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 8, 2007 6:18 PM

Udayan Mukherjee wrote...

How much would these players have been worth if we had won the UEFA cup?

Posted by: Udayan Mukherjee  | January 8, 2007 7:33 PM

tony black wrote...

The sooner he goes the better.

I love Maccarone. I think he was hard done by. But I am first and formost a Boro fan and, in the end, no matter how much I may like him and feel for him and want to endlessly thank him for what he did in the UEFA Cup, my loyalties are with my beloved Boro.

At the moment on a host of Boro fans sites there are articles from Maccarone's personal football coach that are blistering in the ferocity of criticism with regards Steve McClaren, Gareth, and the club as a whole.

Soon these will all come out and this will seriously destabilize the club.

So the sooner he goes the better. Sorry Macca.

For those of you interested the articles appear on www.myfootballcoach.co.uk on the forum.

Tony Black

Posted by: tony black  | January 9, 2007 1:12 AM

alf wrote...

Tony, ofcourse massimo's failure will be blamed on mfc coaching staff. If he blamed the player then no one would want to sign him on a free.

He had 5 years to prove he is good enough. The odd game as a sub where he did anything isnt enough. You need players who are consistently good. Thats the difference. Thats what wins you trophies and gets you up the league.

If it wasnt for his 8M fee, he would have been binned earlier. It tells you something that there were no takers even when we were giving him away and prepared to pay some of his wages.

Thanks for the uefa cup goal, but there is no room sympathy. mfc is not a charity. Lets remember ricketts got a vital carling cup goal at spurs and job got one at Cardiff.

Its crazy that downing gets stick and that massimo gets a standing ovation when ever he comes on the pitch .Why?

Posted by: alf  | January 9, 2007 10:29 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

Udayan.

Fair call Udayan but we would have won the UEFA Cup because the players were better.

Truth is we were given a central midfield football lesson in keeping the ball, playing with tempo and pace, passing to team mates, playing further up the pitch.

These are the same problems that have bedevilled us for a while and are part of the reason for our current predicament. We werent good enough to win the cup and had two miraculous escapes to get there.

Hence your question is self answering. We would have won it if we were good enough and the value of players would reflect that quality.

The current value is a reflection of players in a relegation battle or players too old or not able to hack it..

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 9, 2007 3:02 PM

tony black wrote...

Alf,

i hear what you say, you make some good points and i agree that there is absolutely no sympathy for anyone. Our club comes first and at the end of the day that's all that matters to me.

However, not that i want to advertise this site, but if you take the time to read what this coach has said i think that your mind set will change.

There are two or three articles on this set that look at the behind the scenes. As i read it i did bear in mind that it was being said by the coach and friend of maccarone, but there are clear examples given as to what the prblems are at this club, and how people are being treated which is why there are so many top quality players going through so many ups and downs.

The recent comments by Rochembach only add to these views.

For me, the sooner we debate these things the better.

I would be interested in hearing your feedback if you have the time.

The site is free and sells nothing and that's the only reason why i have even brought this up.

If nothing else, one glarring question must be answered.

WHY DO SO MANY MIDDLESBROUGH FOOTBALLERS GO TO THIS GUY FOR ADDITIONAL FOOTBALL COACHING?

Why is this and what does this say about who we have at this club?

Zenden, Maccarone, Queudreu to name but a few. I emailed, " Slim " to ask if there were any more and he said that there were but was not prepared to say who until they one day left the club.

What happens if these players get injured, what then ?

Thanks for the reply.

Tony Black.

Posted by: tony black  | January 10, 2007 9:26 AM

John Powls wrote...

Tony Black

Are you sure this guy is on the level and not some fantasist? I had a look at the front page of the site and it gives no clue to his bona fides.

His 'clients' are surely not going to be impressed if he 'coaches and tells'.

You may gather from my postings above and previously that I agree entirely with the issues on the poverty of our coaching regime.

Posted by: John Powls  | January 10, 2007 10:35 AM

alf wrote...

Will all due respect that website just looks like a self gratification website, who is chris porter? I think he has retired now after playing at york. I know him.

For starters the websites main man has no qualifications. I could set up a website like that with a bit of creative writing. He wil obviously be biased with massimo as massimo will be paying him a consultancy fee.

I tend to stick to the judgement of the now england manager who had 5 years at boro, 3 years at manutd as coach (winning the treble) and some at derby and plenty of qualifications, or Southgate who is an ex international and 20 years experience in the game.

Rochemback is only bad mouthing the club because he wants to save his skin and not look like he is a failure so other clubs come in for him. he had no discipline at boro and wouldnt play as part of a team and just wandered around the pitch

Frank q, isnt playing that well at fulham

The simple fact is that massimo had nearly 5 seasons to prove he was good enough and he failed. if you break down his goals he didnt actually score that many, some were penalties and some were scored when he first came. says something if no one wants to take him on a free. now if only we kept ricketts and we could have got him fit...

Posted by: alf  | January 10, 2007 10:50 AM

alf wrote...

"WHY DO SO MANY MIDDLESBROUGH FOOTBALLERS GO TO THIS GUY FOR ADDITIONAL FOOTBALL COACHING"

He aint a football coach, he sounds a poor mans bill beswick. he sounds like just a gym trainer

and finally, players like rockembach and massimo are just not suited to the english game. its not the otherway round

Posted by: alf  | January 10, 2007 10:54 AM

red_rebel wrote...

There are a lot of different sporting disciplnes that can teach football a thing or two about stamina , conditioning and preparation and some progressive clubs are taking them up.

But it has to be done within a general framework dictated by the club. You can't have freelance operations. Players staying behind to do a session on the weights of practice free-kicks is one thing but taking up with a solo artist outside the club's training regime sounds a bit dodgy to me.

I think something smells a bit fishy. It doesn't ring true. And even if it is Massimo is hardly a n example of spectacular success.


Posted by: red_rebel  | January 10, 2007 12:29 PM

mike williamson wrote...

i have not read all the comments about this chris porter and who he is or isnt coaching but i can tell you safely this has gone on for several years

i used to see Dean Gordon and several other players of the time turn up at Bannatynes gym at Ingleby Barwick to train with a personal trainer friend of Gordons who he asked to fly in from New Zealand to get him in proper condition.

This was i hasten to add not at a time he was suffering injury but when every Boro supporter believed he was worthy of aplace in the England squad

Posted by: mike williamson  | January 10, 2007 7:54 PM

martinkhan wrote...

I agree entirely with your comments,boro seemed to have bought big name players to keep up with the jones's who aren,t as good as their agents have made them out to be!

i watch the boro from afar in new zealand, i get up in the early hours , to watch a bunch of under achieving ,prima donnas play BORING football!and being born in the town, i must have a heathly dose of ici chemicals in my blood, because ,i still get up , to watch the mercenaries, take, St. steve's money , and produce.....CRAP! Pogatetz,Maccarone, Rochembeck,Huth...Please take the money and LEAVE!!!!

Posted by: martinkhan  | January 13, 2007 9:21 AM

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