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Numbercruncher Needed as Boro Defy The Odds

Posted by on January 28, 2007 10:45 PM | 

CALLING all number-crunchers. What are the odds on Boro getting an away trip in today's FA Cup fifth round draw? Yeah, yeah, I know, its 50/50, the simple probability of a random event with only two possible outcomes. I can do that one.

But Boro's ball coming out second in the FA blazers' bingo pairings would be the TENTH successive away draw in the competition. What do those acquainted with the mathematics of sequential coin-tossing reckon are the odds on that?

Here is the basic data. So far there have been nine random events with only two possible outcomes, and the outcomes all going the same way. Nine heads, if you will:

2003-04:
3rd rd - Notts County H
4th rd - Arsenal A

2004-05:
3rd rd - Notts County A
4th rd - Manchester Utd A

2005-06:
3rd rd - Nuneaton A
4th rd - Coventry A
5th rd - Preston A
6th rd - Charlton A
SF - West Ham (Neutral)

2006-07:
3rd rd - Hull City A
4th rd - Bristol City A

Now my maths is a bit rusty. When I sat down to work it out I was just going to multiply the odds on the basis that it was an accumulator with nine winners at evens (I was going to do it with one of those little thin blue pens with an anxiously chewed end for purposes of authenticity) but that didn't seem right. I made it half (x2) = 1, (x2) = 2 (x2) =4 and so on. Nine times took it to 256 and an away tie in the next round would make it 512-1, which would have been worth a daft quid of anyone's money, although if you offered me it back in January 2004 I'd have declined on the grounds that the scenario was ridiculously far-fetched.

But when I googled 'probability theory' I realised there was a strong probability (greater than 0 but less than 1) I had probably got this completely wrong . My brain started to hurt....

"The strong law of large numbers states that if X1, X2, X3, ... is an infinite sequence of random variables that are pairwise independent and identically distributed with E(|Xi|) < ∞ (and where the common expected value is μ), then....

14624d8f38c79d9fde049910b62d9d2c.png

That's way above my head, like an Alan Kernaghan clearance. So if there is anyone out there who knows their way around a calculator and can work it out for me I'd appreciate it.


**Using the wonders of the interweb I've just brushed up my maths and stats on this on.

Comments (18)

Ian Gill wrote...

AV

You posted that at 10.45pm!

The old mantras still apply. Great to win the away game but be happy with a draw and win the home replay. We have no Uefa cup this year so a bit of excitement doesnt go amiss.

Sadly I havent seen the match - I was at a do and missed MOTD Saturday and got up too late for the Sunday rerun. Forgot to tape it as well.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 29, 2007 9:27 AM

Never Happy wrote...

AV
I am beginning to think you need to get out more.
We may have been drawn away in all of these games but take out Man U and the draw has been quite kind to the Boro.

I thought we would have won on Saturday, but there are 13 other teams who were in the 4th round draw that would gladly swop places with us now.

Hopefully you pointing out our lack of home drawers will not be the kiss of death today. Plymouth at home will do.

**AV writes: Plymouth AWAY will do. I think it will be Preston away. Or Mogga at home.


Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 10:26 AM

Never Happy wrote...

I thinks it will be the Baggies away or Spurs at home.

I also meant to comment on GS's interview after the game on Saturday. He said a lack of focus allowed Bristol back into the game, and that the team will learn from Saturday.

Did he not say exactly the same thing after the Hull game?

I know footballers are not supposed to be the sharpest tools in the box, but how many times do they need to make the same mistakes before the message gets through?

Anyhow's heres hoping that we produce a similar performance to the one after Hull and give Pompey some pay back for the Riverside horror show earlier in the season. 3 - 1 to the Boro.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 11:44 AM

Nigel wrote...

Thats a nice little equation you've got there AV, quite artistic in fact, might even copy it and get it framed for my office wall.

On a footballing note I hope we draw Mogga at home, that would be a bit of fun and stick 5000 on the gate.

Presumably if GS zaps the players with an electric cattle prod every time they throw away a comfortable lead then they will quickly learn not to do it.

Posted by: Nigel  | January 29, 2007 12:06 PM

Ed wrote...

AV

Just between jobs at the moment so have a bit of time to think about such things.

Think your maths is basically right but you are out by a factor of two. For eight draws in eight away games, I get a 1 in 256 chance of occurence.

Consider the coin problem:

If I have 1 coin, there is a 1 in 2 chance of getting a head.

If I have two coins there is a 1 in 4 chance of getting two heads.

This means there is a 1 in 2^n chance of getting n heads when n coins are thrown.

The main flaw in this reasoning is the initial assumption that there is a 50% chance of boro drawing when they play away from home in the cup. Although Boro are poor when playing away from home, they are playing against teams from lower divisions. So this means that Boro and their opposing team are quite closely matched so there is a higher chance of a draw (say 80%).

On a different matter - I am moving from Scotland to Bristol next month and was wondering if anybody knows if there is a Boro supporters club there?


Posted by: Ed  | January 29, 2007 12:21 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Anyone else heard the rumour that Woodgate is going back to Madrid at the end of the season. He has apparently told all his drinking buddies in his local.

On the bright side our wonderful medical team might be able to get Huth fit for next season. Douglas Barder was back on his feet quicker than Huth!

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 12:38 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

AV and somebody as sad as me called Ed.

I too think it is like coins and each individual toss is independent. The chances of us coming out of the hat second eight times is 256:1 so the chances of us coming out second at 1.30pm is 512:1.

Never Happy,

As my dad used to say you cant educate pork. You cant blame the players any more than football coaches who think if they keep playing right footed players on the left that it will work one day or stupid fans who say thats it I not going to support them anymore.

At least 45 minutes is better than the 25 at Reading and it is a vast improvement on the 0 minutes against Watford and Blackburn.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 29, 2007 12:48 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Ian

I thought I would mention the lesson learnt speech from GS as it could be the first step taught on the coaching course.
I say this as it sounded a bit Maclarenesque

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 1:04 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Well, we can all stop number crunching with the Baggies at home if we beat Bristol/

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 29, 2007 1:59 PM

Nigel wrote...

Excellent incentive to beat Bristol, Mogga at home, perfect!

Posted by: Nigel  | January 29, 2007 2:39 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Nigel
As long as we beat Bristol.
Mogga at home as you wished.
The 5000 on the gate will be baggies fans, hopefully Boro fans will also turn up en masse.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 3:06 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Mr Vickers
Your blog was not the kiss of death and more spookily your premenition of Mogga at home came up.

Obviously my physhic powers are not as potent as yours as I thought it might be an away day at the Baggies.
All this is reliant on a focused Boro side turning up for 90 minutes in the replay.

On the downside the crowd will be sparse since the replay is live on Sky.Boro will need to reduce prices to something like a tenner for adults and a fiver for concessions if they hope for a decent crowd.

I know Bristol need to agree to this, but both sides will get a nice little earner from Sky so this should not be a problem. Lets see what our wonderful Marketing department can come up with for the replay.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 29, 2007 4:39 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Never happy

I believe there is an FA stipulation as well about ticket charges

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 29, 2007 8:02 PM

Barnet Nigel wrote...

Never Happy - Woodie doesn't drink in his local

Posted by: Barnet Nigel  | January 29, 2007 10:17 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Nigel
There are not many haircuts like Woodies in the Boro.
Those who know him well have said that he has told them he is going back to Madrid.
I note you said he does not drink in his local, but made no comment on him returning to Madrid.

**AV writes: We all hear tittle-tattle about players socialising but they add little to the overall picture. As it stands Woodgate is a Real player so is contractually obliged to return to Madrid in the Summer. It is what happens after that that matters.

As we understand it Boro have agreed a fee but can only sign him if all three parties - Boro, Real and the player - agree. There are lots of possible scenarios, not least that Real decide to keep him or agree a fee with another club.

Woodgate hinted to me last week that "clubs need to sign players to keep players" so I think he still has an open mind but that the crucial work by Boro has yet to be done.

Posted by: Never Happy  | January 30, 2007 8:45 AM

Ian Gill wrote...

AV

Re Woodie (and Veruka).

'Woodgate hinted to me last week that "clubs need to sign players to keep players" so I think he still has an open mind but that the crucial work by Boro has yet to be done.'

That is the problem - Woodie may have an open mind at the same time as there is an open window.

In two days time when the club renews its building insurance they can truthfully declare that they have locks on all the windows and they are securely bolted and will remain so for the forseeable future.

I do not think anyone would be surprised if they walked away this summer. Correct that, apart from the club. Gate may be comfortable with the squad he has but are the key members of the squad?

Posted by: Ian Gill  | January 30, 2007 12:38 PM

Never Happy wrote...

Nice to see the club have reduced the FA Cup tickets against BC to a tenner and a fiver. Hopefully this will encourage some of the Sky watchers down to the Riverside.

Nice to see GS talking about looking at ways for filling up the ground for all games.

One way for the club to generate support might be to link up with Arriva and or Stagecoach and put on special buses from different area's of the town. Designated pick up and drop off points.

Fans could buy a return ticket or season ticket, a sort of park and ride or walk and ride scheme.

**AV writes: Excellent idea. I'll add that to the list of things the club should do with the extra TV cash next year. That is a good way of investing in the customer-base.


Posted by: Never Happy  | January 30, 2007 12:39 PM

dave wrote...

Why dont the club just offer a massive (40%) reduction on season tickets if they are purchased before 1st june.

Posted by: dave  | January 30, 2007 5:02 PM

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