About this blog

Untypical Boro is a lively topical blog by the Evening Gazette's award winning football columnist Anthony Vickers that aims to get behind the headlines to flesh out the stories that Boro fans are talking about.

Incisive, provocative and well informed it seeks to engage with articulate supporters and give them a platform to help set the agenda on the issues that matter.

Recent comments

Recent Posts

Sponsored links

Archives

Links

Advertiser

Sponsored links


Just Cut And Paste From Cyber Space

Posted by on October 6, 2006 11:21 PM | 

ANYONE who knows me would tell you that opinions are not something that I am short of. Most would add that I probably have too many and am far too willing to voice them.

I am a conscious dissident against the football industry's relentless quest to package the people's game as a soulless and emotionally neutral entertainment. I spend all my professional and much of my personal life immersed in the cultural, political and economic analysis of every minute and mundane aspect of life on Planet Boro. I strive to subject the machinations of the club, the body language of individuals and the carefully crafted language of official pronouncements to the kind of forensic academic scrutiny that the serious papers give to the inner workings of government. I am pro-active and promote the activity, organisation and empowerment of fans at every opportunity. And I elevate the opinions, passions and dynamics of the crowd to the position of importance within the game they deserve but so rarely get.

So boy, does it pee me off when people say all I do is rip off the Fly Me To The Moon board.


It is a comment that is made with tedious frequency, usually on a Tuesday when my Big Picture column is printed, and frankly it is one I find insulting. Apart from anything else it suggests that all I do is sit around all day in an intellectual vacuum, possibly smoking a big Havana cigar and doing the Times crossword, waiting for someone in cyber-space to drop 2,000 words of closely argued coherent copy that is legally sound and with good grammar and syntax into my lap. Bosh bosh, cut and paste, job's a good un'. If only it were that easy.

In fact my columns in various guises have been running for 12 years and pre-date the internet and all that time there has run through every single word I have written a consistent perspective that reflects the position I have passionately taken from day one: that it is the fans' relationship to the club that is the crucial and usually ignored dynamic that drives the game. I don't believe there have been the U-turns and contradictions that would come with slavishly following the loudest voice on a message board or the shifts in tone or content that you would expect from the kind of scavenging operation the critics suggest. Please, give me some credit.

It is the nature of topical columns that they touch on the discussions among the public on the issues of the day. Would the snipers rather the Gazette did not talk about the burning issues? If my writing echoes what is being said in the pubs and clubs - and in cyber-space - then that is a positive and shows that the Gazette is not in some ivory tower existence, a prisoner of the club spin machine and isolated from the cut-and-thrust of the debates on the Boro street. If it engages fully with the tricky issues gripping terrace politics and can help set them in context or shape the agenda then so much the better.

Sometimes, I freely admit, I have surveyed the unfolding arguments on Fly Me To The Moon and to a lesser extent Come On Boro. It helps get a flavour of the public consensus and a measure of the intensity of emotion but rarely have I pillaged original ideas from there - and when I have I have given the author the credit. On more than one occasion I have intervened in the debate and sketched out ideas that are the skeleton of what is to be a column a few days later only then to be accused of 'stealing' my own idea.

Over the years there have been moments of great insight and writers who have crystalised the moment perfectly on the board, although sadly it must be said that these days they are much harder to find among the dumbed down squabbling.

Furthermore to suggest that I am a plagiarist and point to the damning evidence that I am talking about the same thing as posters on the messageboard betrays an insularity and an arrogance. Do they think discussions about Boro's tactics, strengths and weaknesses, the polemics between the half-empty and half-full camps or musings about what the pundits said on Match of the Day are the exclusive preserve of Fly Me To The Moon? They are not. Tens of thousands of ordinary Teessiders who have never touched a computer keyboard are discussing exactly the same issues with exactly the same passion and making exactly the same, if not more perceptive, observations, condemnations and quips.

And we are talking about the same things at the Gazette too. We talk football all day - we get paid for it - and it would defy all logic to believe that given the same information (and often far more information that the public is privy too) that we would not somehow fumble our way towards some of the same conclusions that some apparently better informed posters on the Fly Me To The Moon board have come to.

It is easy for keyboard critics to suggest that my relationship with Fly Me To The Moon is parasitic and that I am enaged in one long frenzied cut-and-paste stroll along the informations super highway. Easy, but wrong. In fact I have for many years willingly helped the board and the vibrant groups who organise within it in whatever way I can. That is not for cynical reasons, for cheap and easy columns. It is because I sincerely believe that supporters are the lifeblood of the game and they should be given a voice, taken seriously and empowered.

I believe on balance I have made a made a positive contribution and helped create a healthy wide-ranging fancentric debate on Teesside doing a job as a cultural and political correspondent that is unique in local newspapers. Surely I didn't get it all off Fly Me To The Moon.



Comments (37)

Ian Gill wrote...

Here, here.

Like many from afar I do my daily trawl of BBC, SkySports, a couple of papers, Northern Echo, Fmttm, MFC and the Gazette. Speak to supporters of other clubs.

My views are my own but they are expressed somtimes before others post, sometimes after. I always consider what opinions other people have, it may change my views it may reinforce them. There are people who have similar views to mine - John from Reading springs to mind - but we dont agree all the time.

I think and always have done, that Vic takes a different perspective to Eric Paylor, Fmttm, MFC, Bernie/Allie etc. If there is an issue raised elsewhere is he supposed to ignore it, airbrush it from the ether, pour scorn on it because of the 'not invented here syndrome'.

I enjoy Vic's articles and blogs, long may they continue. He provides a medium to express our views whatever they are, a chance to discuss issues in greater depth for all groupings of fans without sanitisation.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | October 7, 2006 8:32 AM

John Powls wrote...

Vic

Hope you feel better! Very 11.21 on a Friday night.

You da man!

Posted by: John Powls  | October 7, 2006 10:51 AM

red_rebel wrote...

You don't need to justify yourself Vic. Having a voice in the press does more to raise the fans concerns than all the chatter on the FMTTM board.

Even if you do take a lead from the board sometimes it only represents a tiny proportion of Boro fans anyway. Starting debates among the rest of Teesside through the Gazette is very important.

Keep up the good work.


Posted by: red_rebel  | October 7, 2006 12:31 PM

mickymac wrote...

Who said you plagerise?,Seems to me youre a boro fan who happens to be a journalist.Ignore the moaners vic and keep up the good (and amusing) work.

Posted by: mickymac  | October 7, 2006 2:54 PM

Malcom McNulty wrote...

I'm disappointed Anthony. The ramblings of a madman.

You get paid to TALK about football all day do you- I thought you were paid to WRITE about it?

"Far more information than the public is privy to"...Sorry Vic but the public have access to Planetfootball.com as well.
The TRUE fans you attack and the arrogance you accuse them of...it is your post that is the work of a man with a balooned sense of self-worth.

Oh Vic, back in the days you would stand at the Holgate side-by-side with men like me but you've turned into part of the prawn cocktail brigade.

You're as bad as the southern journos who think they're better than us just because you're now rolling in it. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword...it's a grave shame it's in the hands of a crazed egomaniac. I love Boro and all who follow them. Can you honestly still say the same?

Posted by: Malcom McNulty  | October 9, 2006 4:54 AM

John Powls wrote...

Malcom McNulty - Oh dear, Malcom.

A shame the blog comment section doesn't pick this stuff up and colour it 'green ink'.

Get a grip.

Posted by: John Powls  | October 9, 2006 9:17 AM

Rob wrote...

Interesting piece ...... but you are bigger than this surely ? Like reading your blog a lot - you do tap into the thought process of a number of fans and relate to them as such. Disappointed you felt the need to defend your position to such an extent. Really Vic you should rise above such baitings and continue doing what you do best - thought provoking, well constructed pieces highlighting the rights and wrongs of the Boro and other related matters.

Posted by: Rob  | October 9, 2006 1:05 PM

Oscar Ridsdale snr. wrote...

Spot on Anthony. You must be sick with all the deluded FMTTM'ers claiming that they write your articles for you. A quick inspection blows that particular theory apart.

For instance, I have never seen you criticise any players or managers spelling and grammer. Nor have you blamed George Bush as the root of all modern evil. You never quote the lyrics of The Smiths nor do you bore us within millimeters of our lives with your opinions of other suicidal song writers.

I've never heard you say Bernie is bitter, because he didn't make the money players now earn. You do not accuse the fans of homophobia because someone shouts 'Ya big puff' at Downing.

The fanzine itself is a repetitive organ, the same monkeys churning out the same old tunes. Read one and you have read all those before and all those to come.

In contrast, the articles you write are funny, incisive and reflect many fans feelings.

Keep the good work up Mr. Vickers!!!!


Posted by: Oscar Ridsdale snr.  | October 9, 2006 1:16 PM

Andrew wrote...

Glad you got that off your chest Vic, but I don't think you really needed to.

In answer to Malcolm's posting, I sit two rows in front of Vic and I have never seen him eat a prawn sarnie yet. In fact, I never see any of the other journo's even bringing him a Bovril !

Keep up the good work Vic

Andrew

Posted by: Andrew  | October 9, 2006 1:28 PM

buffaloboro wrote...

Full respect for taking the gripers head on - your role is , in part, to reflect and discuss the concerns of the day. Keep up the good work.

Finally, you are also correct in stating that many of the arguements on the FMTTM board are plastered with cheap insult & the lack of reasoned debate.

Posted by: buffaloboro  | October 9, 2006 1:41 PM

Ian Gill wrote...

Malcolm, I disagree with what you write but defend your right to do so. Oddly, it appears so does Vic.

And that is what the blog is all about.

Posted by: Ian Gill  | October 9, 2006 2:01 PM

Graham wrote...

Damned right Vic; that incestuous love in that is the FMTTM messageboard makes my blood boil. It is the same twenty or thirty posters who daily pontificate about Middlesbrough, and any dissenters who dare question their stances are shot down and dismissed. They make me sick; I hate that type of 'fan'. They think that they are representative of the fan base and it just isn't true.

You say the things that the supporters and thinking and are not afraid to be go against the status quo of the club. Keep it up.

Posted by: Graham  | October 9, 2006 2:02 PM

Nigel wrote...

As it is for many others who contribute to this blog I live away from Boro in North London and each day read various web sites to pick up the news and views on the Boro. This blog is the first I read because it is entertaining, unbiased and usually picks up an important contemporary issue worthy of debate.

I don't read FMTTM because quite frankly most of the stuff posted is highly irritating.

This blog has the double advantage of being well written and responded to by people who think through their replies, so that even though we all do not necessarily agree with what someone has written we can see a constructive arguement.

I don't know who ruffled your feathers Vic but they aren't worth the time of day!

Posted by: Nigel  | October 9, 2006 2:39 PM

John wrote...

Few local newspapers have a voice that reflects the opinions of the rank and file fan. Most sports journos are too frightened to upset the guys at the top of their clubs.

With Anthony we are lucky to have someone write from a fans perspective. And to do that very well. I cannot count the number of articles A.V. has written that has made me proud, laugh or seriously agree with him.

Those at FMTTM are suffering from hyper inflated egos. You only have to look at the rag to realise what an amateur bunch they are. Living out a fantasy that they are interesting witty writers.

Delusions that are much less than grand.

I now look forward to the true fans uniting and getting behind MFC for the next two crucial games.

I hope we all give our backing to young Downing after his very unfair treatment by the national press. Where he has been made a scapegoat for all the failures of the England team.

COME ON BORO! And carry on Anthony.

Posted by: John  | October 9, 2006 3:12 PM

Nigel Empson (Mumbai) wrote...

Don't disagree with anyone except Malcolm...many years ago you interviewed me for a substantial feature on womens football at a time when the sport was unfashionable and struggling for a foothold: the intelligent, easy to read and supportive picture you painted did a huge amount to help the women's game gain credibility on Teesside.

Like many of the others, these days I live away - your articles and this blog are the first I turn to for news not least because your articles are thoroughly well-written, and those who contribute to the blog generally present well considered arguments. When I get chance to go to the Riverside I occassionally buy FMTTM and it's quite entertaining - the FMTTM blog however, like many others, isn't really for me and that's not an implied criticism of it.

Wherever the flack has come from I'd rise above it and continue flying at a higher level.

Posted by: Nigel Empson (Mumbai)  | October 9, 2006 3:42 PM

Piggy N. wrote...

Just dont pinch the Spanish Football reports and we will say no more about it.

**AV writes:

Piggy, I look forward to reviewing those when they come out in book form as they surely must. It is Harry Pearson fuelled by San Miguel. Brilliant writing that I look forward to.

Posted by: Piggy N.  | October 9, 2006 3:56 PM

Rod wrote...

Hey hey, calm it boys. We're all part of the same family. Malcom was probably a bit harsh on Anthony but he just sounds distraught at the poor start to the season and rightfully so.

At the end of the day, when all is said and done like, Vic is in a privelaged position working at the newspaper and should not be lauding it over us regular fellas coming on here and telling us he gets special information we are unable to get out hands on.

I know its true but sometimes the truth hurts. And the fact of the matter is is that Vic is now in a different socio-economic class to any of us regular-Joes.

Good luck to him, but well done Malcom for those of us who aren't earning enough to buy a brand new motor car every year. Again, no offence intended Vic. After all, you are one of the best reads in the Northeast bar none.

*AV writes: I dare say I earn less than most on here. I you think I should be bumped up to a higher socio-economic group feel free to write to the editor.

Posted by: Rod  | October 9, 2006 5:01 PM

Kev B wrote...

Your comments touch upon the issues of the day, and like a lot of us who care and write passionately about Boro, many of the subjects are bound to be of the same ilk.

Anyway, you consistantly write columns and postings of a much higher quality than some of the FMTTM rants, so stop worrying. By the way, your column inches are almost as long as my own, and that's saying something!

Posted by: Kev B  | October 9, 2006 6:48 PM

John H. wrote...

The FMTTM website is a place where a gang of cyber friends gang up aganist those who disagree with them.

There are few occasions where I have seen something original and worth reading. The main ComeOnBoro.com website contains good match reports straight after the game. Also has some very good articles by a number of writers. Both messageboards have their moments, but FMTTM has gone downhill for some time.

What the FMTTM magazine is NOT, is a fanzine. It contains very little regarding the concerns, worries and aspirations of the fans. It is a conduit for a small number of writers who beleive they can write funny and witty stuff. I have yet to be convinced.

The Vickers column on the other hand really does represent all our fears and hopes. Anthony listens to the fans. Of course he does this through various means. Including message boards. You cannot compare twenty or thirty words on one of these boards to any well thought out and written article. That's why he does the job he does. And does it very well IMHO.

I could not care less which filling he has in his sandwich. Whatever it is, he provides we fans with much food for thought.

Thank you Anthony.

Posted by: John H.  | October 9, 2006 9:10 PM

beeline wrote...

" Over the years there have been moments of great insight and writers who have crystalised the moment perfectly on the board, although sadly it must be said that these days they are much hard to find among the dumbed down squabbling. "

You're being kind. It's hardly possible to spend more than a few minutes on there these days, and even harder to find anything worth commenting on - the intellectual level has dropped 50 points.

Unfortunately you unwittingly have contributed to its demise by publicising it via your column, but you can hardly be blamed for that.

Anyway, I see that some of the 'disappeared' now post on this blog, so maybe I'll stick around - seems like a more mature clientele.

*AV writes:

OK, and we'll try to keep it quiet.

Posted by: beeline  | October 9, 2006 10:38 PM

Rob Nicholls wrote...

You're a liar Vickers you steal all my ideas and I am going to sue you, or at least give you a wedgy.

**AV writes:

LOL. You cheeky mimic monkey.

Posted by: Rob Nicholls  | October 9, 2006 11:03 PM

me wrote...

i posted this on fmttm yesterday
do your own article next time

Posted by: me  | October 10, 2006 12:31 AM

boroboy75 wrote...

Now I know where Capio gets his threads on Fmttm from.
Luckily you aren't copying Lisbonlegends boring threads .Although I am a little disappointed you don't use some of my humour on your blogs.

Posted by: boroboy75  | October 10, 2006 8:34 AM

briggsy wrote...

Keep up the good work Mr Vickers.

At least you are not as tedious as people like boroboy75, lucky_alf, lisbon_legend, ray192 and grantus. Thats why I hardly go on fmttm anymore.

Also they are all fickle fans who wanted Steve McClaren out and now want Southgate out. He needs time as its a steep learning curve and I have faith in Gibson

Posted by: briggsy  | October 10, 2006 8:46 AM

Huftythebear wrote...

Blimey! How did you manage to write this being that far up your own backside?


Posted by: Huftythebear  | October 10, 2006 9:34 AM

scubahood wrote...

Ok, so some of us might dress weird and have strange tastes in music but fmttm is still a good place to chat and meet new friends.

BTW, i do love myself

Posted by: scubahood  | October 10, 2006 9:55 AM

scubahood wrote...

And i would also like to add that not everyone finds my seagull of the day a bit boring. I am really an interesting person once you get to know me through all the make up and black tights

Posted by: scubahood  | October 10, 2006 9:57 AM

Shackerooni wrote...

Some of the comments about the fanzine are extremely unfair. It is a humourous publication, and appeals to the fans. I know of at least two people who contemplated grinning when reading one of my very own articles for the fanzine. I think they may have been drunk, or on medication.

Posted by: Shackerooni  | October 10, 2006 10:05 AM

lord david/capio wrote...

I think the gazette is getting too controversial. Perhaps it is time for me to launch a hostile take over bid like i did for fmttm.

Posted by: lord david/capio  | October 10, 2006 10:05 AM

grantus wrote...

Shame that you feel the need to respond to the jibes from the Fly Me board, Anthony.

Nobody doubts that you are indeed a true Boro supporter and you are entitled to your opinion, however learned, informed or not.

That someone or other has accused you of plagerism from FMTTM should actually be taken as a compliment, as the egos that have written were obviously talking about themselves. Don't take it seriously, where's your sense of humour gone man?

It's true that the Fly Me Message Board has decended into childhood mickey taking and rabble, even though it's the best message board for anything related to MFC, so for this reason, do not bite, by biting you only open yourself up even further.

Anthony, stick to what you do best, writing about the Boro. I for one think you're doing a stand up job.

Posted by: grantus  | October 10, 2006 10:14 AM

Grantus wrote...

Don't worry about those whiners Anthony, you're a very talented journalist and devilishly handsome, you regularly portray our region in a positive light and you're devilishly handsome. Did I mention how handsome you are?


Posted by: Grantus  | October 10, 2006 10:14 AM

Rob wrote...

"Some of the comments about the fanzine are extremely unfair. It is a humourous publication, and appeals to the fans. I know of at least two people who contemplated grinning when reading one of my very own articles for the fanzine. I think they may have been drunk, or on medication."

More likely they had not been taking their prescribed medication.

Posted by: Rob  | October 10, 2006 12:13 PM

towz wrote...

You need to get rid of that action man haircut. Otherwise, keep up the good work Mr Vickers.

Posted by: towz  | October 10, 2006 12:29 PM

Chris Gibson wrote...

LADS, WE'RE TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT HERE. I LOG ON TO READ ABOUT THE ISSUES, THE TEAM, PEOPLES VIEWS ON FOOTBALL. NOT ABOUT CYBER POLITICS. CAN THIS BE THE END PLEASE?


*AV writes: Sounds good to me.

Posted by: Chris Gibson  | October 10, 2006 6:14 PM

Lee wrote...

I agree fully with Ridsdale. Keep up the good stuff AV.

Posted by: Lee  | October 10, 2006 10:51 PM

boroboy75 wrote...

What's up Chris Gibson did the wife kick you out of bed to do the washing up this morning?

Posted by: boroboy75  | October 11, 2006 10:51 AM

Rob Thomas wrote...

Anthony.
grantus said that - It's true that the Fly Me Message Board has decended into childhood mickey taking and rabble.

I agree with this comment and this is why it suprises me that you connect yourself so strongly to this board and the majority of the people who use it. The place is now basically a clique of (fickle) 15 to 20 year olds and is not a patch on what it was when TL was involved with it.

Yes we are all followers of the Boro, but the johnny come lately average users of the FMTTM board and the average staunch Boro fan are miles apart.

Posted by: Rob Thomas  | October 11, 2006 3:35 PM

Post a comment

(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)

Advertiser