Should Roma Be Banned From the UEFA Cup?
DOES ITALY need the kind of short, sharp shock English football got with the five year exile from Europe?
That draconian measure forced the game to face up to some harsh realities. Between Heysel and Hillsborough English football was involved in a deep-seated re-examination of almost every aspect of an anarchic, lawless game that was sliding towards oblivion.
But there were Italian fans at Heysel too, waving guns and knives and goading Liverpool supporters. Has the Italian game considered it's own deeply disturbing terrace culture?
Italy's Ultras are out of control. What Boro fans saw in Rome was just a sideshow. Riots are common. Missile throwing is routine. Deaths are par for the course. Racist chanting is endemic. Italian football is like 1983 in England. With flares.
The Ultras have a power that English fans could not conceive of. They control and police the Curva themeselves, selling tickets to raise the money to buy banners and fireworks. They confront players on training grounds and club presidents in the boardroom. Crossing the Ultras can bring personal recrimination and a financial backlash.
And that is the nub of the problem. Italian football has a political and cultural crisis that the big club owners are scared to tackle.
The prospect of a European ban may actually help the owners. It will provoke a crisis and concentrate minds. If the risks of losing the route to the Champions League cashcow outweight the risks of tackling the Ultra then the Serie A big boys may make their move.
Gates in Italy are in freefall. Looking at the facilities in the Stadio Olimpico (those toilets!) you can see why they don't have a family audience. You can see why ordinary people are turning away. We have been there. Changing the demographics inside the ground may help dilute the aggression in the way it did in England.
But also they need a concerted police operation to isolate, arrest and punish the ringleaders of organised violence. And that can only succeed with the full co-operation of the clubs and a press that has rarely taken issue with the culture of violence.
But on what grounds would Italian clubs be banned? Well, they have plenty of previous. They should be warned that the next instance of disorder, missile throwing, ambush or racist chanting will trigger a one year suspension and any repeat would extend that ban.
On a personal level I would say the situation in Rome last week would provide a strong case for an expulsion of Roma on its own.
It seems to me that the need for a 3,000 strong para-military force to provide protection for Boro fans as they travel to and from the ground sends out a strong signal that Roma can not guarantee the safety of visiting fans. The failure of 1,000 riot police to prevent an attack inside the ground - or make any attempt to arrest the perpetrators - underlines that.
If Roma can not guarantee the safety of visiting fans then they should not allowed to stage the match. If they can't stage a match then they should not be admitted to the competition.
In truth, we got away lightly in Rome. Someone could quite easily have been killed. Would that make any difference? Will it take a Heysel in Italy before UEFA Act?
THERE'S more stuff on the Draconian policing form the Evening Gazette on gazettelive... "Bursting with pride"
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Anthony Vickers
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Spot on. As is your article in tonights Gazette.
I agree totally regarding the British state allowing such treatment without as much as a murmer.
This situation must not be allowed to continue.
Keep up the pressure!
I was in Rome for the match last week. I strongly believe that the Boro fans should not let this die. We must organise a concerted campaign to get Roma kicked out of european football.
There are a number of things that can be done.
1)Get the gazette to FULLy back our campaign, by printing page after page of letters from supporters.
2) Encourage the fans to write to their MP asking what are the government going to do about the unacceptable treatment that British citizens recieved whilst in Rome. There muat be 8 or 10 MP covering the areas where the supporters we travelled live ( the season ticket holder next to me at the rivwerside comes from Liverpool.
3Write to the gazette and URGE the to get the POWER of Trinity Mirror Group behind our campaign
4)Write to the Boro and DEMAND that they make an official complaint to UEFA
I was speaking to some Liverpool fans on the thursday night in Rome, they told me that when they played there they received the same treatment and had 11 fans stabbed. I have e mail address of one of them.
Come on Anthony lead our campaign, I intend to start one but someone in your position is better placed to get the results we deserve. If the Mirror get involved they can encourage the Liverpool Arsenal and Chelsea fans to respond as well.
IF there had been ANY trouble from the Boro fans it would have made headlines of BORO THUGS. The fans deserve a massive pat on the back especially after being held back for 1 hour 20 mins crammed in buses for a further 45 mins only to be dumped in a park well away from the centre at 2 am where it was impossible to get any taxis.
some fans were attacked in the park after they had been dropped off.
Ted Strike Ingleby Barwick
I can not agree more with the call for a ban on italian football. I went out with the thoughts I was going to visit a beautiful city, but saw nothing after hearing about the night before.
we were told too be back at the bus for 6pm with them leaving at 6.30pm, when we eventualy got on the bus's they where sat nose too tail with them filling up with the fumes from the bus in front.
where we were sat there was a police van sat next too us with the police looking at there watch's and laughing. we eventualy left at about 8.15pm with kick off at 9pm it was going too be tight even too get there for kick off. on arriving at the ground I could not believe what I saw ladys bags being emptyed of make up and other ladys things.
I looked back too see a mass of fans still too get through the turnstiles, I got in just after the kick off. all coins and the likes were banned but if you bought a drink you were given you've guessed it coins in your change.
the only thing I can say about the boro fans on the night is they never once rose too the deliberate provocation from either the police or what they call fans. we have the true fans we go too watch football. well done all who endured this horrific night. we had the last laugh we are through.
everyone who I have talked too have said the same thing they will never go too italy again and who can blame them.
The point I would like you to take forward are as follows
1. Why given the history of attacks in the Campo di fiori were the police withdrawn 2 minuets prior to an attack?
2. why was there no police intelligence on the attack?
3. Why where no police officers stationed on the few access points to the Campo di fiori controlling access?
4. Why did the police enter the square and then reverse away when assistance was requested?
5. Why did the police feel the need to attack Middlesbrough supporters who where quiet clearly reeling from a vicious and pre meditated assault by Italian nationals?
6. Why was there no Italian police liaison with Cleveland police and injured Middlesbrough supporters?
7. Why would no Italian police take details of the attempted murder of my son?
8. Has any body been arrested for the attempted murder of my son and or the assault on myself?
9. Why were Italian national allowed to take pyrotechnics into the stadium?
10. Why was no action taken to remove individuals who had lit pyrotechnics from the stadium?
11. Why did steward make no attempt to stop Italian national approaching the segregation barrier?
12. Why were individual allowed to cover their faces?
13. What took so long for the police to remove the Italian nationals from the segregation barrier?
14. Why was no action taken to remove these individuals who where clearly inciting a riot from the stadium?
15. Why in breach of the European charted of human rites where Middlesbrough fans held against their will after the game?
16. Why the policing so heavy was handed through the airport long after any perceived danger to Middlesbrough fans was over?
17. Should European football be played in Rome if the Police or stewards, can not effectively police home fans?
18. Should European football be played in Rome if the Police can only guarantee visiting fans safety by breaking the European charted on human rites?
19. Should European football be played in Rome if the Police can not guarantee the safety of visiting fans in the city from well planned gang attacks?
20. Could the Italian authorities please forward to me the relevant criminal injuries forms, for compensation for my self and my son, as laid out in the European criminal injuries agreement of Januay 2006.
In conclusion would the Italian authorities agree that the Middlesbrough supporters showed considerable calm and composure and restraint during their visit to their country?
Would the Italian authorities like to offer an apology to Middlesbrough fans for the behaviour of their nationals through Middlesbrough Football Club?
Copies of this letter have been sent to the foreign & commonwealth office the Italian Embassy in London, Middlesbrough Football club with a request to forward it to UEFA
As a Toon fan reading your blog, I agree that Italians should be booted out of European football for a few years. We were subjected to the same sort of treatment in Rome back in 1999 and in Milan in 2003.
In Milan we were below the Inter fans in the stadium and we were pelted with coins, bottles of p**s and god knows what else. The police didn't want to know unless they had an ideal opportunity to crack an Englishman over the head with a baton.
I have also seen a report from a BBC news site that reports that 15 Liverpool fans were stabbed or slashed when they played in Rome.
Totally agree Anthony.
Even without the terrible incident on Tuesday night in Campo di Fiori. If that level of policing and style of policing is deemed necessary to keep visiting supporters "safe", then quite simply the city and Football Club are not fit to host European matches.
I feel a ban from European Football is the only punishment available to get the message to the Italian FA that they need to get their house in order.
No way should the Roma Football Club and the Rome Authorities be allowed to get away with treating law abiding visitors to their city, in the way we where treated. I left my hotel which was only 10 minutes from the advised assembly point for transport to the stadium at 6.00pm. I did not arrive back to my hotel until 2.00am the next morning. This is 8 hours to attend a football match less than 3 km away. We where hearded, body searched like criminals, then virtually imprisoned for 2 hours after the game and not even allowed to go to the toilets. Whilst the thugs from the Roma football club where free to prowl around the stadium with impunity.
Roma have a long history of violence and intimidation towards supporters and match officials visiting their stadium. I suspect that this, if not actually encouraged by the football club, is accepted by them. I do not believe that a small minority of maybe one or two hundred thugs can cause so many problems if they do not have the consent of the Roma Football Club and the Rome Authorities.
I have a great fear that some future innocent supporters attending what should be a sporting event will be killed.
This must be addressed by UEFA and this so called football club should be banned from all European Games.
This e-mail is also copied to UEFA and the English FA.
I was in Rome & I have to say that I agree with the comments above that Roma & indeed the Olimpico Stadium should not be allowed to host football matches in the forseeable future. For a game that finished before 11pm to be dropped off in a park only 15 mins away at 02.00 is totally unacceptable. Men, women & children were held hostage both in the stadium & on the buses with no access to any facilities.
It is no coincidence that all the bars in Rome closed at 02.00 exactly as we were being dropped off in the park. Good planning or sour grapes on the part of the Rome authorities after we had knocked out their team ? Either way it was a clear breach of our human rights.
Inside the ground Roma fans ran through the cordon of stewards to goad the Boro fans at will, no attempt was made to stop them & indeed I even saw one of the stewards pat one of these so called fans on the head as he made his way back to the Roma fans area.
In my, & many others I have spoken to, opinions it was a miracle that nobody was killed during the unprovoked attack on not just Boro fans but tourists from all over the world on Tues night.
We should not let this matter lie, I would like to see our local MP's & the Mayor of Middlesbrough get involved in conveying to the Rome Authorities (plus UEFA & the FA) that their treatment of Boro fans & the good people of teesside was totally unacceptable.
Roma supporters....is ricognized as the best supporters in the world cuz they love their team etc....we can't ask the uefa that.....the police could do their duty and nothing else i fi could post some photos about them in the stadium.....you won't say that anymore