Bennett Exit: This Year's Model
ON NO, JOE! After the exit of Joe Bennett - £3m down, up to £4.25m if he gets a game plus a sell-on fee - there have been some squeals about lack of ambition and the folly of selling young talent but the harsh reality is that this is Boro's new sustainable business model kicking-in. It is a move that brings the structure of Boro into sharp focus.
Since the realisation that the club were living beyond their means and the seismic financial dislocation of relegation and the real risk that it brings - see Leeds, Portsmouth, Charlton, Sheff Wed, Southampton, Leicester and many many more - Boro have been consciously working towards a formula that balances the books and perpetuates itself.
In short, for the foreseeable, there will be no big spending on over-priced older players on big wages over long contracts and with little resale value. Instead the club will be geared to spotting and nurturing young talent of our own - hence the significant £2m plus annual investment in the Academy, a position geared to protect the club from poachers as much as coaching the kids - and spotting bright young things lower down the leagues.
The flip side of that though is the implicit need to sell those youngsters in their prime, when they are most marketable and at the optimum moment to maximise the price. Inevitably that will mean when they are 'hot', when they are playing at their best. And that is when ideally you would want them to sign a new contract - which in turn will give them a pay rise and shift them closer to the fine line of being a liability rather than an asset.
It is a difficult balancing act to pull off. For instance, when Rhys Williams and Marvin Emnes were given new deals last term. That didn't stop the speculation over them or fundamentally change the financially reality: if a big club comes in with the right offer they will still go - anything else flies in the face of the logic of the model - all that changes is the notional point along the fee//replaceability indices at which the club believe it is the "right offer." As Mogga said it was always about the numbers getting to the right level.
Equally, making that difficult judgement that will inevitably mean public disquiet and occasionally a bit of a backlash. No supporter wants the club to lose their best players. But hey, guess what, we are a selling club now. It is part of the economic landscape. That may be hard to swallow but it is a reality.
Selling players as they peak will bring in money to help run the club, balance the books, prevent the wage bill rising, fund the purchase of other players and pay for the Academy, the engine that can keep the machine ticking over. It is the Arsenal model.
In recent years those sales - the likes of Downing, Johnson, Wheater, Morrison are the big hitters but a host of others too - have brought in £35m to keep the wolf from the door. And in the post-Premiership era that income becomes proportionally far more important. The alternative is more cuts, more borrowing or asking Gibbo to throw in even more money - and that latter is a possibility that will be squeezed dramatically over the next three years as Financial Fair Play clicks in.
More specifically, on Bennett himself, I'm relaxed about it.
On a personal note, he had to go. If you are a young and ambitious Championship player and a Premier League side come in you really HAVE to go. You may never get the chance again. Even if you are at a club that has a decent prospect of promotion and you are a fixture you never know. Football is a fragile and cruel industry and even if you are a fixture, the flavour of the month and flying anything can happen - a new manager with a new shape, new prejudices or preferred personnel, or more often, an injury. One break, tear or twist and you can lose a year and momentum and profile and the moment has gone and you are cast on the scrapheap of regret. Ask Batesy.
On a financial note, it makes sense for the club. They have had a decent offer for a player who cost nothing and realising a fee is the logic of the entire system. There is no point formulating a model then getting cold feet at the first moment of truth. And for Bennett too it makes economic sense. This move can secure his future, probably double his wages and open the door to the big time. He could wait and gamble on the prospects of getting there with Boro ... or he could go route one and sign up now.
And on a footballing note, I'm relaxed about the move. Bennett had a sparkling year when he was taken off the naughty step and rehabilitated by Mogga. Especially when he was playing protected by Andrew Taylor, a shield for his own positional weaknesses and occasional moments of indiscipline. He had a bright spell and forced his way into the England Under 21 set-up amid a flurry of plaudits.
But injuries, illness and a reshuffle in the squad meant he stagnated last year. Some may say he even went backwards. Maybe the change to the team's shape have asked more of him. Maybe he struggled with the weight of expectation. Maybe he took his eye off the ball. Certainly Mogga several times made pointed comments about his need to knuckle down and learn his trade. Once or twice he was dropped as a symbolic kick up the pants.
Since then Mogga has brought in George Friend who after a couple of storming displays has hinted at being more solid in defence than Bennett was and has also shown he can get forward just as effectively. And in pre-season Andy Halliday has impressed in that role too. Suddenly Bennett is not irreplaceable.
Whatever his relative potential in years to come, right now it would be hard to argue that Bennett he should be in the team ahead of the new boy - and if he is not in the team and someone wants to pay £3m it would be crazy to turn it down. And for Bennett, he may as well be on Villa's bench with a payrise and a shot at the big time as on Boro's.
He goes with good wishes. He has been OK at Boro without ever really hitting the heights we hoped he could. If he goes on to realise his potential elsewhere, good for him. It won't be an indictment of Boro if he succeeds at another club (although it will gnaw a bit if it is at Villa, once for a brief spell our nursery club). Players come, players go; only the fans are a constant, the rest is in flux. That's the football industry for you. It is just a job with a highly mobile workforce and limited windows of opportunity for players who have a sporting and financial imperitive to take them when they come. Don't take it personally.
That's why fans should never get anyone's name but their own on the back of a shirt.
****
GILLINGHAM.... just a quickie. I was doing match report, writing up interviews and doing the stats etc for today's paper and the wi-fi wouldn't work so I had to effect hotel room running repairs didn't get finish and get to bed until 2am. So no time for a blog. Then got up at sparrow's fart, tweaked a few things and had breakfast then jumped on a train. Now I am making my way home bleary-eyed and jet-lagged - can you be jet-legged from Gillingham? - and looking life a refugee from a stag night so my batteries are no time for any serious writing about the game. It's a glamourous life.
So in brief: a frantic finale but job done. A very polished first half with lots of passing and pace and lots of promise plus some real steel in the second as Boro dug in against a spirited and direct fightback to collect a first clean sheet of the season and a place in the next round. And two more pearlers. Does this team score ordinary goals? All the lads must be ribbing Seb Hines for his bundled tekkerless effort.
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Just back from Gillingham, a straight forward win would be my description.
I thought Friend and Carayol in particular looked good. Mogga played three at the back which worked well enough. Although seeing Rhys playing right midfield was a surprise, his injury didn't look too good, although when he first went down my instinct was he had a season ending injury but in the end it looked like an ankle sprain. So we won't see him for a few weeks.
Well a very good result and yet more evidence of our attacking style of play with youth heavily to the fore again. But the injury to our captain was not on the agenda and stinks of earlier ie Wheater made captain then sold,Bates captain then a long lay off. This may throw the whole buying and selling up in the air.
Firstly i see Swansea have rebuffed City for Sinclair which will surely effect a move for Emnes. Second if Williams is going to be out for any length of time he may move Friend inside and put Bennet at left back. Oh well we will know by the weekend which way its going to go.
Game last night and no blog yet. What have you been doing since the match? Come to think of it what time did you get to bed and who got to drive?
I must admit I was worried Rhys and done a cruciate the way Ali and Higgy were talking when the injury happened. From reports it was his ankle, lets hope not too serious. Away win in the cup with game time for more players cant be bad. Big Mick is not away with Scottie. Amazing that we have nine different goalscorers already.
**AV writes: Sorry no blog... I got back to hotel, had a wi-fi failure, did running repairs, did match report, all the stats, wrote-up two interviews with Mogga & one with Martin Allen and finished at 2am. Then got up, tweaked a few things, had breakfast and jumped on a train. It's all glamour.
I hope Rhys is ok. I have done both my ankles and they are very painful, just dont know how bad his injury is.
I played prop at rugby so mobility was never a real issue but I ended up playing with my ankles strapped up. Ever since I tend to turn them occasionally and I am very way of uneven surfaces. It is the twisting and turning that is the big problem.
If I remember rightly Willie Maddren had dodgy ankles and was strapped up after every match.
Wonder how Joe's talks are going with Villa, I cant see Rhys's situation affecting the transfer when serious money may be on offer. Mogga has clearly been preparing plan B just as long as he doesnt hinder Hoytes rapid progress at right back.
I suspect Big Mc will be staying for a few weeks yet.
This season I have resolved to be less anxious as we reach the closing minutes of games. Last year was too tormenting at times. So far so good, thanks to Park, a player I have not seen play.
Interesting formation that Mogga played which leans to the discussion on here recently that he picks a team to suit the circumstances and nature of the opposition. Apart from the defence which he rarely disturbs unless injuries occur, the rest of the team is fluid and problematic.
Hence my attempt at forecasting what team he is going to select goes out of the window. We are seeing the benefits of some of the young lads like Hines and Smallwood 'hardening up' from last season.
As for Bennett going, I would sanction that and keep Emnes. Being greedy I would like 3 points on Saturday but will accept a point. Puzzled as to why Williams was played in a right wing back role that he has not played for us in years, where were Parnaby and Hoyte? So sod's law has struck and he will be out for some time.
Just read AV's response to Ian's question re the blog which reminded me of a conversation last night with my son as we sat waiting for kick off.
'So where do the journalists sit Dad?' 'Up there in the main stand, look you can see the row of desks, they're all sat there.' 'What they dont sit in a posh box?' 'No, why would they want to sit in a box?' 'Dunno.' 'Have a look to see if you can spot Anthony Vickers.' 'What! Is he a journalist?' I laughed, made my day!!
**AV writes: Is he a journalist? I laughed too!
Skysports say Joe Bennett is not convinced that it is time to leave Boro just yet. If that is true fair play to the lad whether he leaves or not.
Jet lag? It's the regular roller-coaster ride on offer for Boro fans and some journalists, too.
But we're in the hat for the draw. Sunderland away, anyone?
Finally, I wish all the best for Rhys. I hope it's just weeks rather than half a year. Up the Boro!
**AV writes: I just want the easiest possible draw. Bradford/Carlisle at home please.
Another satisfying result even if the performances are still not lasting for the full match.
Very bad news if we're missing Rhys Williams for a prolonged period of time, but Seb Hines has never let us down.
I find the Bennett to Villa story very odd. I may be underestimating the lad but I can't see what he will bring to the Premier League at this point in his development. If Lambert wants him as one for the future then fine, but the prices quoted seem like a lot for that. I'm not sure he is a nailed-on first teamer for us at the moment.
I would still prefer to keep him, mind you, the potential is there. But as Mowbray says, money talks. The same goes for Emnes.
My first view of Carayol: Chris of Bev (remember him?) liked him during the pre-season, and I can see why! He runs at people quickly and strongly and straight at them to boot; he has Ogbeche's tricksiness, but wants to hold on to the ball more. On the other side, Miller didn't do his Velcro Man act nearly so well last night.
Can the travelling support have been 450 or so, as I think the announcer said? Amazing effort, lads and lasses (largely living southerly, I think, but very well done!) Mogga certainly appreciated the support, as he clapped us all the way back to the dressing rooms.
Can we who are living in the north match their Tuesday night devotion? I have heard three different people last week saying they can't loan their season tickets out for the Burnley or Crystal Palace games for free! We all need to spread the word that the vibe and energy is worth beholding at the moment, don't we?
This is an important season! UTB
Oh, summat else, what I meant to post: the first half yesterday was very pleasing in that it showed that the second-string players buying into the same kind of fluid passing play that the first-choicers try to employ. This suggests a measure of coherence at the Riverside! A run of injuries may not sink the boat this term! Let's hope it turns out to be so!
(The second half was forgettable apart from the fun factor of everyone around us in our area groaning as Cameron "missed": some said they saw it go by the the side of the goal (me!) and others said he lofted it well over!! No one round us, it seemed, "saw it go in"! And most laughed when they saw it nestling in the goal!)
Bennett has gone then, according to the official MFC site. Good luck to him, I hope he fulfils his potential.
AV - Any news on the fee, any add-ons and whether he will be replaced? Anything left over for new faces?
**AV writes: It was always a shoo-in once the club entertained the inquiries. Football is a fragile existence - ask Batesy - so talented young kids with a bit of ambition have to grab the chances when they come. Even if isn't always neccessarily the best thing for their football development.
Not sure about the details. That will all come out tomorrow. The noises last night was that it will fund a bit more tweaking of the squad.
I hope Bennett does want to stay and if so isn't put under pressure to move.
If the reports of afee of £5 million for Emnes are correct I would see that as a good fee.
Another great result last night tempered somewhat by the news of Rhys' injury. I believe in Friend and the likes of Halliday's 'grooming' (can you say that these days) I believe we have cover for Bennett.
Could I ask blogites to put a 'shout-out' for fellow contributor Martin in Bishops Waltham (and occasionally Manila) as he has had a serious health scare and is facing a new challenge with no small amount of determination and cussedness. I am sure a few words of support would mean a lot to him.
And finally does anyone know if it is possible to turn down the brightness on Steele's shirt! Still havent got over the glare at Barnsley!
**AV writes: Yes, a big shout out for Martin. Let's have you battling back and fully fit as soon as possible gadge.
Im worried about R.Williams injury, if it is ligaments, and how much they have stretched. Did mine years ago playing, came back after about two month and did them again two more times in a six month period. I had to take a complete eighteen month off (no training or anything) to get any where near ready to start again,and even then it stayed weak.
On Joe Bennett I wish the lad well and hope he goes on to better things. I've watched Joe and sometimes he can be a little sloppy and frustrating but Ive also seen him look like a top class Full/wing/back in the making . Not a lot of money for him but its another star for the Academy,
I'd also like to say I like the idea of three solid stoppers at the back, 3-5-2, most teams are playing one up front anyway these days,so we should be able to cope.
Haway Martin. Right behind you son.
Out of the shed to give a big shout out to Martin.
COME ON MARTIN!!!!!!
AV, could you possibly enlighten me to the basis of "signed for an undisclosed fee"
Already I have seen two reports of a fee being agreed of 2.75 mill and one of 4 mill, although I expect the first figure to be nearer to the mark. I also appreciate that where there could be add ons during the players contract, the fee may eventually rise.
Still could be a reasonable sale if the money is spent well, assuming TM gets some of it.
**AV writes: Payment schedules, target based increments, sell-ons and bonuses make it almost impossible to put an accurate figure on most complex big money deals these days. An "undisclosed fee" may be a basic payment of £1m but could just as easily be worth "up to £5m" - or it could be impossible to quantify until the player moved on again next time. Mostly an agreed figure evolves between press and club and then becomes established as fact.
Hey Martin, good luck, keep reading the blog and soak up the positive vibes coming your way.
So Bennett has gone, if Sky are right and it's £4m that's a good deal. Mogga can do some serious tweaking with that sort of cash. We won't recognise the squad come the deadline, it'll certainly bare no resemblance to last season.
Spoke to my mate who is a Pompey fan today, he always has a bet at the start of the season on who will be champions of each of the four divisions. He's backed Boro for the championship, a man after my own heart!
Following on from previous, another conversation tonight with my son regarding AV's profession......'I thought he was just some bloke who wrote a blog' . He is now fully appraised!
Does Celtic making the champions league group stage make Scott McDonald leaving more likely?
**AV writes: That's a good question. Maybe we will find out tomorrow.
In a thread coming up in the future, as I wheel away in front of the virtual South Terrace, after posting the 100th comment, I'll pull up my shirt to reveal a message..
This One's For You Martin!
Good Luck, Martin.
Best wishes, Martin. Always appreciated your comments. Hope future Boro results bring much cheer.
Whether £2.4m or £4m, the fee for Joe represents good business for a youngster who may not have played much for us this season anyway. Whilst he generally looked the part going forward, he was something of a weak defensive link for us last season, and given the runaround whenever he faced a genuine winger like Burke or Snodgrass. And not a particularly fast learner when it came to keeping his head and judging a tackle either. The first duty of a full back is to defend well, but this was the weakest part of Joe's game.
Good luck to the lad, but good business for us nevertheless.
Good luck to Joe Bennett - OK at Boro but as AV says, he never really came through as we’d hoped.
It’s always unsettling to lose a player who has come through the ranks and while it looks like Friend could well be the better option this term, I’d say Bennett still has the greater long term potential. Whether he lives up to it or not...
All in all, a decent deal for everyone and driven by a financial reality we all understand now it seems.
What does grate enormously though, is the benign attitude to players like McDonald and McManus who, indirectly, are the reason we are having to sell off young players like Bennett.
I’m guessing here but weekly wages attributed to McDonald are around 25k per week and McManus circa 18k. Now, they may be thoroughly good men, or utterly reprehensible beings, but either way I find the general benevolence afforded these two men, who are taking around 43k per week from our club, an utter disgrace.
Mogga at least seems to be showing his distaste for McDonald through his constant omissions and clearly doesn’t trust McManus in a league line up.
It irks me that lots of fans, in a pally and frankly crawly way, refer to McManus as ‘Big Mick’. There is nothing big about this man whatsoever - he was brought in as a senior defender to strengthen and marshal the defence. And has failed miserably on both counts.
He may be a daily church goer or seeking a cure for cancer in his spare time for all I know but it doesn’t detract from the fact he is taking the club and fans for a complete ride.
Yes, he has a contract and is entitled to the money, but he is not displaying any understanding that his actions have upon the club. We could take on a whole host of admin and support staff with just one month of his and McDonald’s wages and probably implement a good many new youth programs as well.
And where is the professional ambition by these men to actually play the game? No, they’d rather sit tight and collect the money they are not earning. And they are not earning it because they are not good enough to produce for the team every Saturday afternoon.
Sign a contract, turn up for training, smile nicely, don’t cause any waves and you’re quids in. That’s all there is to these men.
But the effects of the (non) actions ripple through and permeate the club for years to come.
There is probably not a single blogger on Untypical Boro who will earn in a lifetime what these men have earned in signing on fees and salary while just at Middlesbrough.
While we should preserve our dignity by not being foul mouthed or downright loathsome towards then, we should recognise these players for the opportunists they are with not a shred of responsibility to the club who pays them so well and the community in which they live and from which they constantly take, take and take.
Martin, 'you're one of our own'. The whole Diasboro wishes you well.
On to less imortant matters, another angle on the transfer window.
It is possible, a bit of a left field, but I suppose some of Bennett's money could be used to encourage Scottie (and maybe Big Mc) to leave by mutual consent.
They could then negotiate as a free agent joining a club with no transfer fee, the new club can manipulate the deal to reflect that fact. The player gets a decent contract but more importantly play football. Whatever we may think most footballers want to play, we just cant comprehend the rewards.
That could create a fair amount of wriggle room. The problem is that we dont know the maths but the stories about the likely wages may impact.
Is it plausible AV?
It's probably a good deal for Boro and Bennett at around £3m, especially if he's not guaranteed a starting place - He's probably lost the initial momentum he gained under Mogga and needs a 'bigger' challenge to focus his head and push on.
I had a quick glance at a Villa blog to see how his transfer had been received. In general they welcomed his signing as a good U21 prospect especially as their current LB (Warnock) is not very popular - though most fans had never heard of him and he started to be refered to as John Benneton.
Anyway, a lot of Villa fans are bemoaning the lack of big name signings they used to make under Martin O'Neill but are starting to accept that they are downsizing and no longer competing at the top end - In Paul Lambert we trust is now the mantra - sounds familiar?
All the best Martin. You'll be kissing the badge and kicking the advertising hoardings in no time.
Disappointed to see Bennett go really, he obviously has bags of potential that he hasn’t yet fufilled and now we won’t get the chance to see if he will.
He didn’t have a great season last year, in fact I thought it was the attacking side that let him down, his crossing was awful at times and you would have expected more than one goal from him after scoring early on at Burnley.
His defensive abilities get a bit of a kicking, but like the much-maligned Hoyte, he was part of that incredibly solid defence for the first half of last season.
I’ve liked what I’ve seen of Friend so far, but it’s only been four games, and if we expect a £250k 24-year-old to be better than a £2.5m 22-year-old over the course of a season then Mogga’s transfer dealings really are something to behold (and/or he has been very lucky).
Also, we finally had some genuine competition at left-back and we are back to having very little if Friend gets injured. I guess Hoyte, Parnaby or Halliday would then have to step in. (or Arca!)
Ultimately though, it’s another product of our academy who isn’t playing for us, the money is good, but if he becomes a top player we might rue the day we let him go for relative peanuts.
AV -"We're a selling club now". Whilst it does not feel like it, in the new sensible world, I suppose this is a step up from being a pensioners club where the old and infirm came to bolster their retirement pot.
We should be taking pride in the fact we can produce local youth talent (soon to be national with the elite player plan)and sell them for good money. It still stings a bit though.
Any ideas on the squad tweeks AV? £3 is more cash then we have spent on 11 odd players. Should TM get to reinvest the lot, we could be on for quite a few more arrivals!
Nothing new here.
Souness, Hodgson, Armstrong, Procter, Johnstone, Mills, Butler, Kernaghan, Mowbray, etc etc.
Same as it ever was.
**AV writes: Morrison, Downing, Johnson, Wheater....
richard evans -
You make a strong and passionate point about McManus and McDonald although your description of fans that refer to 'Big Mick' is a tad judgemental. Professional football is littered with players on big contracts who sit tight in the ressies and take the money, we've had a few at Boro over the years. Massimo always springs to mind for instance.
However these guys have every right to do so. A contract works two ways. The Boro offered them both a contract for a lot of money in return for them playing first team football. It could be argued that it was the club that broke the contract first by not honouring the 'commitment' to play them in the first team, a consequence of changing managers.
These guys have responsibilities to themselves and their families, they'd be foolish to walk away from £18k a week in exchange for £5k when they know their careers will end at 30 or maybe tomorrow if they break a leg. It could be argued that morally they should move on but how many people in this world set themselves moral standards that high?
As a fan its frustrating to see money being wasted and two players on high salaries restricting the clubs rebuilding process but its a fact that wont go away. My guess is McDonald will be gone soon and McManus will either stay a while because of the Rhys Williams injury or he'll go out on loan, saving the club some money at least.
As for the 'Big Mick' thing, he's respected I think because he appears to give 100% and be committed to his football, he certainly was at Gillingham.
I read that Brendan Rodgers wants Stewie to become a left back, an interesting proposition. I never saw Stewie's defensive abilities as the strongest part of his game. Rodgers also cites the fact that Downing played left back for Boro during the UEFA cup run to the final as proof he can do it, is my memory playing tricks? I dont remember stewie playing left back when he was banging in the crosses for Massimo, Viduka et al to score the eight goals that got us to the final.
Although given McClarens 'tactics' of playing four centre forwards it may have looked at times that Stewie was playing in defence!
**AV writes: There were some very strange selections in the group stages but I don't remember Stewie at left-back.
I see Liverpool have to sell before they can buy now according to the Grauniad ("Brendan Rodgers says Liverpool must sell players before buying more"). So maybe not all that demeaning to be considered a selling club!
I see Mr Rodgers also doesn't fancy Downing on the left wing, but wants him to consider becoming a left back following his success in that role during the UEFA cup run to Eindhoven ....... (I thought Frank Q did left back for us on that run!)
I agree it is a good deal for Boro, I actually think we may have got the better end of the deal than Villa, but good luck to him and I hope he does well.
I think I agree with Ricahrd Evans' observations about the players around the league on big big money, but not earning their crust. It does draw into question their sport-driven goals and any commitment to the sport and the club beyond the weekly boost to their bank balances.
There would be a lot of honour and a lot of respect earned should such a player knock on the boss's door and offer to take a 50% cut to earn their place back. I would also suspect such a player would also find his services in demand, so the right transfer would be even easier to find.
Richard Evans -
I wouldnt blame the two Mc's for their salaries. We can blame GS2 and the club but the problems go back further to the disastrous transfer activities before then.
For all the mutterings about certain parties being troublemakers I think Scottie was better value than Mido and Alves who cost £20m in fees and god knows what in wages.
The sooner they are off the wage bill the better for the finances are maybe the atmosphere, even if they are decent blokes the wages will be an irritant on their own.
AV and GHW - Clough, Peacock, Knowles, Butler.....
Why do I feel so let down by Bennett leaving? I'm gutted - but for no good reason.
If the fee was £2.5m that's not too bad in this market and especially in our cash-strapped circumstances. It's easy to to take the view that Joe costs us nothing so any fee is pure profit. However it might be the case that, through the Academy, it has cost approaching a mill to get Bennett to this stage. Any figures AV? How much do we have to sell a kid for in order to cover development costs?
I'm surprised he's attracted a Premiership club so soon. I agree with AV's assessment. Joe had a barn-storming first season and anything looked possible. However last season was comparatively medicocre. So now may well be a good time to sell in case he goes backwards this season - with Friend in, there was the possibility he could be warming our bench.
Bale-lite, Bennett was better going forward than covering and, in particular, he was suspect positionally and defensively. He might quickly make the grade as a wing-back but I'm not so sure as an out-and-out FB. I suspect he'll be warming Villa's bench and might end up like Johnson.
After recent reports, Friend sounds like he's an able replacement. Being an exile, I have yet to see him but, forensically sifting through match reports (as we exiles have to), his early games sounded far from promising. However his last couple of performances have sounded like the real deal and, what's more, he seems to be a better defender.
So why am I so upset to see Bennett go? It's a decent price, good timing, he wasn't that good anyway and we have an able replacement. So what's my problem? It's because it's a reminder we've come full circle and Boro are back to being a selling club.
I still bear the scars from my early supporting years. In the 60s we had a set of internationals (Clough, Peacock, Halliday, Baxter, etc.) and needed to strengthen a few areas to have a top team. Instead, one by one, we cashed in on the better players and ended up in the 3rd division in '66.
I endured that kind of one-step-forward-two-steps-back for decades until the Great Gibbo Experiment. Suddenly we paid a million. Then bought one of the best young players around. Jeez, we've signed the best player in the world. Good God, what now - we've bought a European Champion. This was the stuff of Friday night alcohol-fuelled dreaming. Pot-propelled fantasies (and I don't even smoke!) were not this good.
It couldn't last and it didn't. I've got over it now (well, almost) but this sale rubs the nose in it. Beggars can't be choosers and we have to sell whever a half-decent offer is made. I can appreciate the financial sustainability - but don't ask me to like it. The gates of heaven were opened wide for a few years and now we're down in the pit with the rest.
P.S. Best wishes Martin.
Didn't Derrick Downing move to full back later in his career? Maybe Brendan Rodgers thinks they are related and it is in the genes.
As I understand it, Warnock is out of favour at Villa, so Bennett can expect to go straight into the team. Whether he’s Premiership standard at the moment, particularly in a struggling team, is another question.
Interesting comment about Taylor protecting Bennett because, at left back, Taylor always looked better with Liverpool's new left back in front of him. Downing's pace helped even though his tackling was not the most robust in the league.
Adam Johnson was constantly criticised by Mancini for not working hard enough.
That situation is no different in the centre of defence. Bates always looked better at centre back with a holding midfielder in front of him like Bailey than McManus did with Bates in the holding role.
You are no longer allowed to leather players in to row Z, if the player gets a yard on you then you have to try and catch them up or leave them alone.
Rooks and Gates and Boam had none of these sorts of problems.
Well thats Bennett gone good luck to him in what will hard season seeing how Villa are struggling at present.
Wonder why our reserve keeper didnt play in midweek is there still a worry there?
If so we need a keeper and a goal scorer. I don't think we need cover for Bennett as we have Halliday, Arca and Friend.
What makes it easier for me to accept Joe Bennett's departure is seeing Adam Reach, Luke Williams, Cameron Park etc in the first team. We really do have a lot to thank Mr. Parnaby (snr) for, he keeps churning out quality local talent. One goes another steps up to the mark. The king is dead, long live the king.
I also think Mogga has played a blinder, selling Bennett for £4 million and buying Friend for £250000 borders on the sensational.
Good luck to Bennett I hope he becomes a top premiership player.
I see Sky are reporting that City have agreed a fee for Sinclair. Does that now mean Emnes to Swansea? If so, he would be a bigger loss than Bennett.
On the plus side, at least he's no longer the only source of pace, especially since the purchase of Carayol. Also he wasn't a natural scorer.
However he was technically gifted and, able to play through the middle or out wide, he was versatile. He also showed hints of developing a goal instinct. It's conceivable that in a couple of years Emnes could be a lightning-quick 20 goals a season man in the Premiership.
If it comes to pass, let's hope we get a good fee and that TM has a replacement lined up that can be signed in the next 36 hours. A proven Championship prolific scorer would be nice!
**AV writes: Not straight forward on Emnes. They won't met Boro's valuation and Boro won;t be bullied. Swansea have also just signed a Spanish winger so by my reckoning that means the prospects of Marvin leaving are dropping. We'll see.
Regardless of what we think of Bennett, Lambert is nobody's fool and evidently does rate him. To the tune of £2.5m/£3m/£4.25m (delete as applicable).
Doesn't this highlight what a crap judge of a player Strachan was? It was a disgrace when you think how Joe was frozen out. He was a revelation when Mogga supported him, so we already knew that GS2 had been wrong - badly wrong - but this just confirms it.
Thanks to Nigel Reeve and Ian Gill for comments on the Macs. You both make very valid points as I would expect. I do understand what you’re saying re contractual right and the way things are, rather than how we’d like them to be.
My feeling is that the two Macs have not lived up to their part of the contract with MFC - McDonald was brought in to score goals and has failed badly in this respect while McManus has been far from the defensive leader and barrier we assumed he would be.
So surely they have some moral obligation to the club, which pays their wages, to mitigate their actions and take a pay cut to play elsewhere? It shows no professional ambition to just sit back and take the money.
I know they’re not alone, far from it and yes, we have been hit as badly as anyone in this respect. I also know it’s ‘wrong’ in the context of this argument, but I forgive Massimo anything courtesy of the ’06 semi-final...
Also Mendi’s through ball in Cardiff has the weight of much exoneration for his later sit back and collect time at the club. But those two in particular did deliver when it mattered, unlike so many in our history and including the two Macs, so emotion not logic comes to the fore.
I just hate that all of the money from Joe Bennett - a lad raised and brought through a first rate club youth system - will go on the Macs wages, if they stay of course, for the next 12 months. So again we’re paying still for the Strachan folly and two men not on remote terms with any kind of Corinthian ideal.
It grates even more when we have a principled and decent manager and a chairman every other club should want forever. But at least we have got them, and when you put the Macs nonsense aside, that counts for more than anything.
When we started taking players off to go four up front in the fightbacks against Basle and Steuea then Stewie did indeed go to left back. He was most definitely wingback role when he put over the crosses for all the goals that beat Steuea.
And it was tried again in the final but Seville were prepared for that tactic.
Richard Evans -
'moral obligation'? 'Corinthian ideal'? Bless you, how sweet and old-fashioned - you've made my day. I'll bet you were in the Scouts. I don't know you but I like you already. Unlike the money-driven, cynical world of modern football and footballers, as apparently epitomised by the two Macs, you've given me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.
The sale of Joe Bennett merely illustrates the fact that we are a small minded team with a small minded approach who accept that we shall never be anything but second class in English Football terms.
You may wrap the reasoning for the sale up in any way you wish but the bottom line is that the protestations from players and staff alike that our objective is promotion is nothing but a lot of unsubstantiated hot air - actions speak louder than words.
Some while since you raised the question of how spectator income could be maximised. This is certainly not the way. As a seventy year old with more than 60 years of supporting boro I very much doubt that I shall ever see them in the top flight again. I shall certainly have to think long and deep before renewing my season ticket support when it next comes up for consideration.
GC -
What would you have the club do instead? Say "no, thank you" to £3m for a player who is not even a guaranteed first-teamer?
Aren't we in more danger of missing out on promotion if we turn down the money?
To my mind, of the three parties involved (Boro, Bennett, Villa), Boro are by far in the most credit in this deal.
nikeboros warm and fuzzy internal shennanigans are worrying, yes I agree that the thought of a principled footballing utopia is attractive, but someone venting their own politics of envy can't change the fact that football, at professional levels, should never cause internal warm and fuzzy feelings unless its from haemorages or concussion!
I am only a fan of 40 years ..or so, but its always been a business, otherwise the crash of 86 would never have happened, that the result of greed as much as imcompetence.
It's not the two Macs faults that they are being paid and they arent being picked, as I see it, they are both fit and ready to pull on their boots. There are easier targets, but try and take the whole situation less personally, the club is a business, you're just a bum on a seat, the same as any other punter at any other club.
We pay to be entertained, whether thats by footballing brilliance or by having some disaster to dissect at work for days/weeks/years.
Selling JB on is good business, if Scott Mac goes then great as well, Big Mick I see being more useful, at least he isnt an internal exile so who can blame him for sticking around waiting for scraps....lets not forget, they are only footballers, its what they do
I think we have to be careful on this ‘not a guaranteed first-teamer’ line. I think regardless of how well Friend has started, when Bennett was fit he would have got his place back sooner rather than later. If Friend is so good, and remember he is only 2 years older, why haven’t Villa bought him?
Too harsh, GC. Even a well-drilled pessimist like me doesn't view it that bleakly.
I've already confessed to being gutted by Bennett's departure. But let's see what TM can do with the money, eh?
You're my kind of vintage so we both remember Boro as struggling to progress because they wouldn't buy to strengthen but would always sell. That's the difference now - the money from sales is usually made available for purchases.
If there's enough time, Mogga might get a player in and still have some change left. After all, Bennett hasn't left a gaping hole behind, he wasn't that good and may well have gone backwards and been worth much less next year.
Like you, I'm still upset but I can see the positives and win myself over.
Great piece of business. A player with potential but who we have not missed this season. A defender is five times easier to replace than a defender. And 10 times easier than a proven stiker like Emnes.
Two wishes now:
1. I hope Mogga have time to spend the £3m before Friday. A proper goal getter to free GHw from the shed, please.
2. Wish Marvin stay at Boro now. We got money by selling Joe already, so NO thank you, Swans.
AV, you think we get a home tie in the League Cup, seriously? Up the Boro!
**AV writes: Hoping for easiest possible tie - I'll have Bradford at home please.
I think we have done a good deal AV. We have secured a good fee for a decent player, but I am worried about young Joe. I really wish him all the best, but I just feel it is too early to make that leap in Joes case.
However, I do agree with your assessment that when the opportunity comes along young ambitious players need to take that leap of faith into the Prem. So off he goes with all of Boro fans best wishes I believe.
It is a sign of the times and no shame to be a selling club when the price is right. It's how the wary need to survive in these grim financial times, and both Arsenal and Villa have spotted this. In Villa's case though, I do feel they are in for a very tough season and that trap door is looming wide open for them in my opinion.
With the transfer window creaking closed in a few hours, Mogga now needs to assess what he needs with the news that RW is out for an unholy amount of time. Feel really sorry for him, and for us supporters! We will really miss him, and Mogga needs to make the right decisions on the transfer front in a short space of time to get us to the next transfer window in January.
What 'o' one and all!
Priorities - Chin up Martin! Keep throwin those punches lad, you'll be on yer feet in no time. All the best from Central Europe.
richard evans -
Do I know where you're coming from? You bet yer life I do! Still the life of the professional football world is light years away from the time when I used to dig me hand and me arm down the back of the sofa to see if I could supplement the meagre financial resources I had in me trouser pocket with a hole in't (I kid ye not!)Well above my league (ahem!)
All the way back to the days when Ironopolis were strutting their stuff it was still a case of who you could buy and who you would sell. In addition, for eons the players were treated like today's low wage slaves, tossed in and out of a job with two bob's worth if you were lucky. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that part of it that made Cloughie up sticks and take his tricks to a higher bidder?
All in all, twas the Boro who sold Bennett, not Bennett selling himself. Yep, he'll get a slice of the cake no doubt but in the balance of things I'd rather players were paid a generous portion of what they contribute to a club than have to go cap in hand to the manager for a rise so they can feed the babbies next day.
Reminds me of the story of the Southampton dock workers before WWII, who if they wanted a days work next day they would have to leave the back door open for the foreman to visit the misses whilst he went to the pub for an hour. No visit - no work! (true story and they weren't playing chess)
Havin said all the above it would be a nice gesture if the players from each club got together and donated a collective 10% of their earnings towards employment generation schemes in their areas. What chance that eh AV in today's meme world?
Next point - For the life of me I don't believe there are only 'selling clubs and buying clubs', all are an amalgamation of the two. Always have been. Still some buy and sell to better effect than others. I reckon Mogga's got a bit of a 'Arry Rednapp touch to him and given the environment that's no bad thing. The signs are looking good early in the season so let's sit back and enjoy the flow (of football that is).
UTB
BoroPhil -
I think there is a difference between a first-teamer, and a guaranteed first-teamer.
I agree with you that Bennett would most likely be first choice when fit and in form, but he isn't the sort of loss that a guaranteed first-teamer like Rhys Williams would be.
I see Blackburn have signed Jordan Rhodes for £8m. That's umbrella payments for you and that's what we're up against. We're offered £4m and bite their hands off; meanwhile, Blackburn can go out and spend double.
We'll still finish above them.
AV going back to the Palace match I was surprised that you and our other local pundits didn't give Grant Leadbetter a mention. I thought his display, especially in the first half was one of the best I have ever seen from a Boro midfielder for many a year. I thought he broke up attacks and passed the ball impeccably.
**AV writes: There were a lot of candidates for the star men ratings in the first hour. For me it was George Friend closely followed by Justin Hoyte then after that there were three or four with a big shout for a mention. I'd have gone for Reach ahead of Leadbitter but they both did different jobs very well.
AV
Do we have a window blog? It may well be more interesting than the last few. Jim White is already consuming Phalls and going to saunas in preparation.
**AV writes: Not sure yet. I may have a commitment tomorrow night. We'll see.
Firstly hope Martin is feeling better and picking up, come on Boro needs you!
On the subject of Joe going I'm fairly comfortable with it. He clearly rubbed Stricken up the wrong way, Mogga turned him around and I suspect made a silk purse out of a pigs ear. Last season he appeared to stagnate or even go backwards so perhaps a new challenge is what the lad needs so good luck to him.
To get a few million as well is a bonus and if nothing else if it just helps the Academy and looking at Reach, Williams (L), Smallwood, Park etc then I'm happy if Mogga doesn't get to see a penny of it. Of course I would be far happier still if he was given the money to recruit but either way Friend has replaced Bennett and in my opinion is a better option and Boro a few million quid to the good, well done Mogga.
Being completely honest I would have thought £1m was adequate for him and to think it's £2.5m and could rise to £4m is damn good business.
Regarding the salary debate, a contract is binding on both parties. If I sign a contract I expect to be bound by it and likewise the other party. We have seen a few "no shows" on big contracts in Boro's recent past, Viduka, Boksic etc. the difference here is that Mick and Scott have always given 100% when selected in my opinion and have never feigned injury so good luck to them as they were courted here in the first place.
Tommo is slightly different, genuinely injured and difficult to determine if he gives 100% due to his lack of appearances (as oppose to blatant "no shows") but Mogga certainly believes in him and in Mogga I trust (although I occasionally admit to being baffled).
To put things in perspective, contrast with the matty Bates situation, no contract, seriously injured, may never play again and no wages - should Boro be paying him £15K a week out of misplaced loyalty or do they abide by the contractual requirements which have now expired in Boro's favour?
If the window closes and we still have Scott and Mick then with the injury to Rhys (salaries apart) Mick's services will be required and appreciated. With Scott, although not as prolific as hoped for, in fairness the team he joined at the time was dysfunctional and struggled, he hasn't exactly had any decent service since either but has always battled and scrapped and his head never dropped on the pitch.
With Reach, Friend, Carayol, McEachran, Hoyte aII potentially feeding him and playing off either Miller or Juke I think he could be a 20 plus goal a season striker for us. Its unlikely though that Mogga will be tempted to test that theory. To me it would be easier to sell in January with 12 goals under his belt but maybe the thought of Barca and the cash it affords the Bhoys may change things.
With regards to selling, every club sells players. Didn't RVP just depart the Emirates and didn't Ronaldo leave OT a few seasons back? And isn't Rooney being hinted at departing the same OT? And even Mr Liverpool himself is being told to leave to win something. Hasn't Modric just left WHL?
Its nothing new and in my opinion I'd rather we put our money into potential rather than washed up has beens coming for a final pay day with no commitment or ambition to fulfill (anyone remember Ray Parlour or have we forgotten so quickly).
Listened to the draw for the League Cup and it took me back to a record brought in to the UK by my mate's brother by Canned Heat, 'On the road again'.
For you younger pop pickers the key point is that Harvey Mandell and Larry Taylor joined John Mayall as he moved from Blues to a more jazz based band. Jazz Blues Fusion was one of his best albums.
Sorry, music began with whenever you started following it but many will remember Redcar Jazz Club.
Nikeboro -
Thank you for your kind comments. Very pleased. Despite the differences of opinion among some on here, I think we're mostly all coming from the same place.
And yes, you are quite right, I was in the Scouts, Elm Ridge in Darlington in the late 70s, before becoming a beer drinking New Romantic... crikey
Do we have a window blog later?
**AV writes: Sorry but no.... oh sod it, let's give it a shot.
Another away draw in the League cup - have we upset somebody at the Football League? II wouldn't have minded so much if it was a southern team but I'll struggle to make it up uo Preston on a Tuesday night!
Redcar Red -
absolutely a top post. I agree 100 % what you said. Worth reading a second time, too.
Secondly - I start to suspect the draw for the League Cup is not neutral. An away tie for Boro AGAIN. This is a 1024-1 shot. Someone doesn't want us to win the cup AGAIN!!!
The first draw of the season tomorrow? A 2-2 draw with Emnes and Woody scoring for us at the New Den. Up the Boro!
I think it’s being a bit generous to suggest that McDonald hasn’t had good service.
I lost count of the number of times last season when Hoyte would plant a perfect cross on McDonald’s head, only for him to somehow head it wide, and he missed a good number of other chances as well.
He misses far too many chances to be a prolific striker, yes there is the possibility that he could go on a run and score 20+ goals but you’d have to say it’s unlikely from the evidence we’ve seen in the last couple of years.
Having said that, if he is still here tomorrow, there’s no point leaving him to rot in the reserves. Apart from not scoring as often as we’d like, McDonald hasn’t done anything wrong (as far as we know) and he is still a decent player. I just don’t think he is what we need to lead our attack and for £3.5m and £20k+/ week in the Championship that’s the least we would expect.
On the subject of Leadbitter, I also thought he was excellent and for me it was him or Steele for man of the match v Palace. Between Leadbitter and McEachran, they barely misplaced a pass in the first 55mins, something we really lacked last season when attack after attack broke down with a poor pass. Like Friend, early days, but he looks a really good signing.
Sky Sports understands Swansea City are closing in on the signing of Feyenoord winger Jerson Cabral.
Swansea boss Michael Laudrup has moved for Cabral with Scott Sinclair poised to leave the Liberty Stadium for Manchester City.
No need for our Dutch lad if Swansea have this one.
If we arent using the £3m to buy players today - no point having an extra £6m and selling Emmnes.
Martin - a big shout out, mate. Bests to you!!
Good luck to Joe Bennett for his move - couldn't turn it down. Looks like all the prep for young Halliday wasn't just random experimentation!!
Sad news about Rolls Rhys - Mogga said he'd been in two minds whether to take him to Priestfields. How's your luck!! We're better placed than we were to cover with Seb Hines alongside Woody, for preference and Big Mick (if he stays) and Friend to cover before we get to the kids.
Amougou? As I've said before, that would be a mistake on so many levels.
Time to buckle in and see what changes to the squad available for Millwall will be wrought by 11 tonight!!
Did anyone make any money on the draw, was very good odds. Preston not too bad will give us relief from the Championship for one game.
Agree AV i think when Swansea bought the other winger that was it with Emnes.
Keeping some money in the kitty for January is a good thing as we will know what we need to push on.Hopefully for the better Rhys should be back by then and the Juke may be scoring goals and our keepers are doing well.
Then Gibbo can go and have a beer with Bennett's money.
Love Boro, Love the blog, Love Dickie Rooks