England Expects... But Can't Deliver
IVE BEEN urged to "write something about England and the Euros." The assumption is that it would be a supportive tub-thumping flag-waving pre-tournament ra-ra as I fall in line and don the myopic St George gegs of expectation. It won't be. I don't really "do England." When it comes to club v country there is only one winner for me. In fact, it's no contest.
My list of priorities in international tournaments goes something like this:
1) Boro players: if they are in action in hope they do well, bless them, but far more importantly that they don't get injured. Or tapped up. Boro have had representatives flying the flag at every big event since 1998. And it is always nice to have a real interest in some of the obscure group games.
2) Boro targets: over the past two decades or so we have been spoiled and regarded any international event as a kind of medieval hiring fair or set piece industy trade exhibition, a shop window for us to peruse. As 'big spending Boro' there was was almost no-one on show that we could not afford. With Gibbo's Magic Wallet in full flow there was no such thing as wild eyed speculation. We actually, really might - probably will - sign some of these guys. After France won the World Cup we signed Karembeu. After Brazil won it we signed Juninho. It was great.
3) Good football: It is always refreshing to see good, well balanced teams playing attacking football and exciting individuals in mesmerising form. It is great to see tactical innovation, audacious skill and power and watch well matched adversaries playing spirit-soaring, faith reaffirming football.
As (1) and (2) do not apply at belt-tightened Boro any more my personal levels of active engagement have dropped dramatically. And as (3) so rarely includes England I can't see myself becoming overly animated on that score either.
England have won just SEVEN matches over 90 minutes in the entire history of the European Championships. I don't expect that to change too much this time. So I won't be writing too much about the Euro's. I've marked out my position before.
In fact, that sounds like the cue for a dip into the archives. Here's one I did earlier, a flashback to South Africa and the mandatory post-tournament fruitless inquest. Mentally you will need to tweak a few names but not much else has changed....
*******
England Expects... But Can't Deliver
ENGLAND supporters are the Geordies of international football: they have deluded themselves that because they won a trophy once on Pathe News and they have the "best" fans they are entitled ex-officio to be world champions.
That they have star players and an all out attacking style of football that is the envy of the world and that only a series of outrageous refereeing decisions as every major tournament comes to the boil has stopped their inevitable and popular march to glory.
Don't let the evidence of almost 50 silverless years get in the way of that passion.
England fans really should know better. This 'failure' isn't a blip. Thirty years of hurt? Are we up to 40 now? Or 50? Failure is the norm for England.
Yet despite that inescapable reality there has been an collective elective amnesia and a willingness to buy into the spin that the glittering global success of the Premier League would somehow short circuit history and win England the World Cup.
It is a delusion. Remember how the cocksure media chorused after the draw that England were surely a shoo-in for the final. At least. The draw was "EASY" said the Sun. Wayne Rooney was the best player on the planet and the team was studded with intergalactic quality the tabloids declared. Who could stop us this time?
The England fans' painful frustration and heartbreak now stems from that ridiculous media frenzy and unrealisable artificially raised expectations based on arrogance, ignorance and wishful thinking. It is a long way down from the saddle of that high horse.
That uncritical media juggernaut driven blindfold through the national psyche was given added momentum by a relentless cynical multi-media marketing campaign to get us to buy England branded beer and burgers and bog roll and given weight of numbers by the sudden appearance in public places of more flags than a Nuremburg rally.
Fans, even the most knowledgable, were persuaded against their better judgement - and by the very tabloid and studio big-hitters now leading the witch-hunt - that this time victory was possible... probable?
Now as England fans make their way dejectedly through the post-exit debris of broken dreams and discarded car flags like a tear through face-paint, the spotlight switches to our true national sport: the hysterical search for a scapegoat.
Because someone must be to blame for this unacceptable, shameful historic failure. Let the show trials begin... the accused: Capello for his scared selection and tired tactics, Rob Green for his butter-fingered fumble, the team for a collective failure against Algeria and the inability to score one more against Slovenia that gave them the "hard" route (and the chance to lose to Ghana instead), John Terry for his failed coup, Sepp Blatter, the referee, the ball, Gareth Southgate. Take your pick.
But while we try to pin the crime on someone - anyone - we are missing the point: England are nowhere near good enough to win the World Cup. They were never going to win. We have not been denied our birthright. It is not an historic aberration, it was a completely predictable exit that fits all the evidence of football history.
England are ranked by FIFA somewhere between eighth and 12th in the world so a place in the last 16 is just meeting expectations. Going any further is relative success.
England's tournament default it to stumble through the group stage then go against the first technically competent side they come up against.
Sometimes the draw is kind and they get past a Cameroon or a Belgium but then when they meet a Germany, Brazil or Argentina they go out. That is the harsh reality. The idea that England are an international football superpower is a nonsense.
Since grinding out victory on home turf in 1966 (courtesy of a dodgy goal that didn't prompt demands for a FIFA inquiry) England have reached the semi-final ONCE - that last four high-water puts them on a par with giants South Korea, Croatia, Belgium, Sweden, Turkey and Bulgaria.
England have even failed to qualify for the finals at all on three occasions.
Since 1966 Germany have always gone further than England. They have won two finals and been runners-up three times plus they have won three European Championships and been runners-up in three more. They have the right to expectations. We don't.
But why were England never going to win? Surely the Premier League is the best in the world? Sky Sports says it is.
Certainly it is the most popular. The Premier League puts bums on seats and earns the biggest TV rights from more countries than any other competition and it is peppered with global superstars playing the fastest, most physical and goal spattered football in the world. And that's great.
But club and country are not the same. Premier League domination of the Champions League and the global armchair audience has been based on a wage explosion that has prompted the wholesale importation of foreign talent.
English football has become like the Harlem Globetrotters with a string of big teams packed with expensive exhibitionists bamboozling a parade of willing patsies from middling makeweights delighted just to be there.
And the talented tricksters that make it all tick are overwhelming not eligible for England. The step-overs, the sublime skills, the deft touches and visionary distribution are foreign attributes grafted onto a chassis of English industry and passion.
Shorn of the European, African and Latin American elements the English game is a limited, creaking one dimensional one based on graft, passion and the long ball forward and it is repeatedly exposed on the international stage by teams from smaller lower ranks nations who are technically far more proficient and tactically literate.
Insular England have been isolated from the coaching and cultural developments in the wider game for decades and have made a virtue of it. There is a quite explicit distrust of coaching badges and tactical variation within the ranks of the professionals and a disdain within the managerial community for 'flair' in favour of workrate and commitment.
The modern era has brought a globalisation of the game. Television has spread once localised and indiginous styles to a wider audience, jet travel and post-Bosman free movement of labour has encouraged a melting pot of talent and a tumult of footballing ideas while the money and prestige of the European game has sucked in talent from across the world. Players and coaches have carried with them elements of their own national game around the world and their distinct tactics, training, tempo and culture have been expanded and exploited and enriched into an exciting new whole.
Reticent English clubs have nervously dipped their toes into this pool, not for ideas but for players or the occasional coach - who are usually regarded as wierd mystics, alchemists or revolutionaries because they think and talk about diet, tactics, training and technique - but they remain wedded to the traditional direct, high tempo pressing game.
Any dangerous deviation, any attempt to keep the ball for 20 minutes with a slow, cautious approach based on possession across the back prompts booing and shouts of "get it forward" from the crowd and the press box while "tinker man" tactical changes of shape too far from the mandatory 442 are seen as a direct unmitigated philosophical assault on all the English game holds dear.
In the domestic game the debilitating results of that historic exclusion have been hidden by importing players to paper over the cracks - but England can't sign a bunch of foreigners. Although watch this space if Harry gets the job.
We get told constantly that England have "a Golden Generation" of world class stars coveted by the continental giants. We don't. We have a very small of outstanding players who may or may not survive in more technically demanding leagues and prove themselves worthy of the media bestowed "world class" label and we have another clutch of good but not great players.
And they are all made to look far better than they actually are, or at least are protected from having their weaknesses so ruthless or regularly exposed, because at their clubs they are surrounded by technically superior imports who help bridge the skills gap.
There is a culturally ingrained emphasis on physique, commitment and passion. Given a football lesson by Algeria? Boo. There was a lack of commitment said the pundits. Show more passion! No. Show more skill. England must learn to play the way the rest of the world do, using close control, technique and flexible tactics and tempos as needed.
If England were serious about being a superpower the FA would rip apart results driven youth football to put the emphasis on coaching technique from a very early age.
In Germany, Spain and Holland kids play small sided games on small pitches and are encouraged to control, pass and move from an early age. They don't play an organised 11-a-side game on a full-sized pitch until they are 14 or 15. In England we already have the nucleus of future national teams built around the biggest lads - not the most skilful - hoofing it up field on adult pitches long before then.
The biggest, strongest and most athletic flourish in results driven junior teams whatever their technical limitation while the scrawny but skilful don't even get picked. Even at that level coaches - and parents - want victories and the pressure is on to pick the strongest kids rather than the skilful and find a short cut to success.
If the FA were serious then that would change and a new system of youth football, of genuine academies and feeder clubs with the emphasis on skill rather than results would be put in place alongside a cultural revolution in the national teams at every level. That would take a generation and would require an integrated approach from the clubs, the FA and junior football and it would take a massive investment in coaching excellence with very little prospect of any quick financial return and no guarentees.
But the FA are the creature of the piper paying clubs who want to continue to import the very best to get results in the short term and so keep the gravy train rolling along.
Owners and chairmen don't care about England, only the success of their own club. Sky Sports and the media will take whatever commercial advantage there is from Team England but their core bums on seats product is club competition and star names battling it out in endless Super Showdown Grandslam Sundays. They don't want change.
And ultimately fans are the same. Almost unanimously first and foremost fans want their own club to flourish. They want the stars. They want the quality. They want success. For club not country. That is just a summer time bonus.
If the price of a vibrant domestic scene is having to endure an agonised empty inquest over England's endemic failure every two years, so be it.
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Euros who?
Roll on June 18th and Boros new fixtures. Then August and the new season.
Yep could not agree more.
The bottom line is you just have to look at the overseas players in the Prem and the amount of English players that have ever gone to Europe over the years.
Capping the amount of overseas players per club is the only way of getting young English or British players into the higher leagues. As we all know that wont happen.
Do we have a European league table? I would put us either fifth or sixth in that. That gets us through the first phase and then home.
I would like to see us do better and finally see Downing shake off the doubters and get some assists in and a couple of goals.
I'd have to say I care little for Boro players at the Euros/World Cups as they won't stick around in the Boro will they? At least you cant jump from country to country. Come on England!
Couldn't agree more AV!
I'd walk over hot coals for Boro. I'd be hard pressed to supply water to the England team if they spontaneously combusted due to a combined oversized ego explosion.
I only watch (and then only fleetingly) England for Boro players - past & present, but I also watch for Boro players - past & present in other national teams.
When Big Jack was managing the Republic of Ireland and utilising Boro players left right and centre (some of whom England deigned not good enough for international call-up) I willed ROI on victory - the chance to show that Boro players can more than hold their own at international level.
I wont be supporting England - bunch of overpaid oversized egotistical prima donnas - who as you rightly point out will never admit they weren't good enough. It's always someone or something else's fault. I'll be admiring (though not supporting) some of the truly talented teams out there with genuine skill and mesmerising football - way beyond the capability of the England players.
Of course the day when the England team is full of Boro (past and present players) and the "full of themselves" or should that be "full of something else..." BIG club (and no Geordies - I wasn't referring to you - you're not a big club despite what you believe) Chelsea players are sitting on the bench, or in the stands (or better still - left at home) then I'll be proud to get out the joint England/Boro flags pull on an England/Boro T-shirt and enjoy an England/Boro beer!
It could be worse AV. At least were not Scotland fans... talk about delusional.
AV - Hear, hear.
Nearly all the creativity or flair is provided by imports. When Ronaldo went to real my Scouser mate chortled that it would be a huge loss, I suggested to him that Alonso leaving would hurt Liverpool more.
Gerrard would be a fine aquisition for any club but his style is very British, against Belgium his pass completion was down in the low 60%. His style works in the premiership but struggles against the best in the world as do many of our players. Few are capable of holding down a place in technically gifted sides.
We succeed when we play with tempo but if stringing three passes together is a struggle then you are chasing shadows. Even gifted young players like Wilshire at Arsenal pale into routine against the best.
I will watch, I still want England to do well and hope against hope that we play some decent stuff. But when the squad has so many Liverpool players who underachieved then I dont expect much. I am not criticising the players they are what they are, they would all walk in to our team.
May well struggle to get out of the group. Hopefully we will get some cricket to watch though looking at pictures of rain battering the Edgbaston covers is no worse than watching England.
Your telling reference to the Harlem Globetrotters echoed my precise feelings and evoked a specific memory. The Globetrotters used to put on occasional exhibition games at Ayresome Park in the 1950s. (The ground was also used as a venue for a Billy Graham evangelical meeting on one occasion).
After one basketball game between the Globetrotters and the American All-Stars, which ,of course, the Globetrotters duly won, the crowd began to disperse, and members of the American All-Stars came back out and began to dismantle the court and cart it off to a nearby bus. As a kid I was shocked. They were not a serious opposition but stooges - or patsies to use your words. There simply to act as a convenient backdrop to the stars.
It was an image I have often recalled when watching the Premiership. Clubs like ours are there simply to act, all too frequently ,as convenient punch bags for the self-glorification of the rich and powerful. It is one of the reasons why playing in the Championship is in many ways a much more enjoyable experience than acting as cannon -fodder in the Premiership.
If every other club refused to play against the top six Premiership teams, condemning them to a sterile round of matches against each other, it would be no more than they deserve. (Yeah, OK, I can see the flaws in this. I was just saying.)
We have all been intrigued by the Tai-kwaendo (no slight in the spelling, just underwhelmed by sport at the moment) selection procedure for the Olympics.
So we have a world number one who is current European Champion who has been overlooked in favour of someone n places below him in the rankings (where n is very large and positive).
I dont understand Taekwondo but am suitably baffled by the decision.
Besides which, any Boro news?
**AV writes: Got a new name linked as a transfer target tomorrow. Strong suggestions from that end. Defender. Yorkshire club. Shhhhhh.
Up to Ian Gill at 8.59pm (the last post I can see at the time of typing), I agree with everything written on this thread so far. No controversy.
And, Ian, I heard this morning that the overlooked world number 1 has in the last year fought 10 (I think) of the world's top 15 who will be at the Olympics in his weight category, and has won all 10, whereas the chosen athlete has fought only 2 of those competitors and has won 1. The chosen one is, I think, ranked 59 in the "under 80kg" category.
The Taekwondo (hope the spelling is correct) selectors must be praying their chap wins the gold. If he doesn't, and they'd left the world number 1 out of the team, there will be further questions raised. Talk about bringing a sport into disrepute!
Russia the dark horses after today's Euro games?
So Vic, you won't be leaving work early on Monday to watch England?
**AV writes: Oh, is it Monday?
My comment is why was my swear-free comment on the recent Stewart Downing article that actually stuck up for the Gazette removed? I may as well write here because you seem to be the only one with sense. Are MFC and The Gazette run by the same, arms-length people? Just an tiny emailed explanation, even if AUTOMATED, would have been nice!
From now on I guess I had better side with the Gazette knockers......OO-ERR!!
**AV writes: We on the sports desk have nothing to do with the comments on stories or their moderation but I can tell you it is run with a 'safety first' policy and anything that is in the slightest bit legally suspect is taken down. The Gazette is a large and responsible media organisation so our standards of what constitutes the norms of debate are far more strictly defined than other forums or a chat down the pub. We are also far more likely to be sued if something slips through.
The internet and the habit of writing on forums like FMTTM where anything goes has given people the impression that 'free speech' means they can say anything they want. They can't. We are still subject to tight libel and defamation law. And the lawyers of people who are subject to stories are far more likely to be reading the Gazette boards very carefully than they are other forums or twitter.
Personally I wouldn't have those comments on the bottom of stories at all. The comments often detract and digress from the article and often end up in squabbling and point scoring between commentators. I'm all in favour of open debate about what we have written and I don't mind a robust exchange of views but the place for that sort of feedback is on forums that can evolve their own voice and norms.
Even on here I take out swearing and insults aimed at other posters and quite often 'tweak' and edit a word or two from an otherwise excellent submission, usually changing it so slightly that the writer doesn't even notice but which defuses the potential for libel. Got to be careful. Haven't been sued for ages.
Forever -
The spelling was deliberate because it reflected how much we know about sport, the other facts you mentioned I knew vaguely but wanted to do something else so didn't look up.
What the story does is give the sport a bad name amongst general sport followers. I guess it wont enourage some parents to get their children involved, they may well choose judo instead.
What it also shows is that incompetent and self seeking governance isnt just the province of the major sports.
At least in football the Premiership has some form of meritocracy.
A yorkshire defender? Mmmmm. Is it Ben Gibson coming back from loan and being 'just like a new signing'?
**AV writes: Sports selection criteria are strange beasts. Some are hard and fast - hit the qualification mark and you are in - others, especially team sports with an individual doing the selection, are far more opaque. Look at football and Rio...
AV -
Sorry mate, I know you put a lot of thought,work and research into your article but it's the only article of yours that I stopped reading after the first couple of paragraphs.
England just don't interest me, haven't done for a few years now, don't really know why, don't get me wrong I want them to do well, I'll watch their (see, their rather than ours) matches for all of 10 minutes then turn to another channel.
Perhaps it's the last two managers we've ( that's better) had that have put me off.
Good luck to Roy Hodgson, seems a decent bloke and he appears to be slowly trying to change the outlook of our (I'm getting there)overpaid, under performing, spoilt, talentless (in most cases) players.
Most fans in this country only have real affiliation to their own club, England come way down the line.
The rumours true then about Doncaster Rovers left back.
**AV writes: All the comments you make, I made in the article. Go on, give it shot.
Yes, the paper down there has been told Boro are one of three clubs who have have been watching George Friend for a while and have a keen interest. Rovers don't want to sell but have a big deficit and need to shift a few and reduce their wage bill. Sound familiar?
Full story in today's Gazette.
Just shows how stories start, Mogga was down the pub and was asked who Boro were targetting, jokingly he replied 'can I phone A Friend'
Sorry! At least the cricket has started to keep me occupied.
"England have won just SEVEN matches over 90 minutes in the entire history of the European Championships"
You are definitely "glass half empty" where England is concerned.
How about this for a stat. We've reached the last eight of the European Championships on a total of seven occasions, and the last four twice.
I don't expect us to win it. We'll scrape through the group and get knocked out by the first decent team we meet. But we are no worse than most of the teams taking part.
I see it as something to cheer about during the close season. Last year we had to make do with women's football!
**AV writes: Generally, at any given time, England are ranked between four and eight in Europe. You would expect them to reach the last eight in most tournament and occasionaly make the semis (and last 16 and occasionally making the quarters). That is just performing to the mathematical norm.
What English football has never addressed is how to perform ABOVE the norm.
Humbug. I will be supporting England.
I have no idea what to expect. It would not surprise me if we won our qualifying group or finished bottom but success or failure I still watch the games and support. I can't help it.
I don't buy the line about overpaid, egotistical, prima-donna players being the cause of our "failure". Frankly, I'm not sure we have failed. As AV says, England are ranked between fourth and eighth in Europe, which is generally where we finish. We rarely, if ever, overachieve, but failure to overachieve is not failure. It isn't success either, of course.
If anything I think England have "failed" because of the fear of "failure". The fans and media over-hype the team's ability. I don't think it's over-confidence from the players, quite the opposite. Too much is expected of them.
Having said that though, support of England isn't the same as supporting your club. I find supporting the national team easier as I'm happy when we win but not too bothered when we are defeated. It's a no-lose situation for me.
**AV writes: I think expectation, especially from the media, is a massive problem. Not neccessarily on individual players because a lot of them play for some of the biggest clubs in the world and they are used to pressure. I think the real weight is on the management because the targets for them are so high they are almost certain to "fail" (ie not over-achieve) and the recrimination start very quickly. Two draws in a row is enough for the media to start a bandwagon rolling.
Even now the media are talking about "lower expectations" this time - but then they almost always tie what sounds like a reasoned perspective to a reference to Denmark and Greece winning as outsiders... way to lower demands.
The problem is that huge swathes of the national media corps DO expect England to win (more so than the average fan I think). Two defeats and they WILL start to agitate for change. That is not only a failure on their part to understand or address the realities but also leaves almost no room for forward thinking, long term planning or change by the management. There is no leeway to experiment, change a philosophy, bed in young blood or usher in tactical innovations.
Defeat is met by demands for blood from the manager and more passion from the players. Until that default changes England are trapped.
Firstly, this isn't very interesting and so it is for you alone Mr Vickers! I know you'll read it but feel free to not post it. In fact, if you don't I know you'll have got it and at least absorbed what little it signifies. Woe is me!
Utterly appreciate you taking the time to write that response regarding comments on the news stories. I understand you completely but would say there's no harm in a little chit-chat at the bottom of the stories and they can be entertaining to read... in the right place. Lordy lumps, those Yahoo ones are dreadful to read, but this local one is actually fine, though I get your point regarding point scoring et al.
Anyway, the legal aspect I get but I honestly have no idea what I said that caused a problem. I try to stay away from the 'bloke in the pub knee jerk reaction arrr arrrr' type responses, if only coz I hate getting 'shot down'!
And so I'll say again, I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything out of turn! That was all I was trying to get across. Whether these message boards are good or not (on a newspaper site) is another issue, but while they are there I'm still baffled as to why my post was taken down. I know it had no bad language and.....well, i'm just repeating myself now.
The gist was, by the way, about people knocking the Stewart Downing stories (and therefore any former Boro player) which they deem irrelevant. I said I like them and that the Gazette is for many people and not just them, and to state the oh-so-obvious... if you don't like it, don't read! A doo be doo.
Anyway, thanks a lot for responding, that's all a slightly disgruntled person can ask for... and now I feel better. And that's not sarcasm! Cheers. Appreciated.
**AV writes: All part of the service. Does anyone else use, have knowledge of or have opinions on the comments section on Gazette stories. I rarely dip in but when I do it seems to me to have a peculiar atmosphere. There seems almost a competitive urge to be first to disparage the story, the player and the club.
Something slightly different and this is from a lifelong Boro fan who did play other sports. Best team sport for kids?
When they get beyond aged 11 then it must be rugby union.
Football is my first love but it does tend to take out players who do not have the physical attributes at an an early age. Not fast enough or the ball skills necessary are the first ones that rule out kids.
The Jinky Johnsons and Downings crucify everyone, games turn into who has the better Jinky and the rest may as well stay at home and go on the playstation. Tall players without football skills may as well stick to watering hanging baskets.
Rugby union has players of all shapes and sizes, each can contribute. Jinkies can contribute but if they get isolated and they will get beaten up in the nicest possible way. They have to play in a team structure.
But as my Derby supporting mate said after a discussion about the same subject 'I just dont get it!'.
No doubt no one will agree but I know I am right.
**AV writes: I agree that football can be very unbalanced in terms of ability by the time you get to secondary school but I don't remember rugby as teaching skills or organisation let alone being enjoyable. I remember it as being a key part of the school brutalisation process by which bullies had their playground reign of terror legitimised for an hour and used it as a cover for punishment beatings of the cool kids, the nerds and the mouthy smartarses like me.
AV -
I agree with you 99% of your response and I reckon the England players and management would as well.
My only difference of opinion would be regarding when you say that the heavy expectation is not so much of a burden on the players from the big clubs because they are used to it. I think the pressure is different because if they fail with their clubs they do not face a national media backlash. Club supporters are much more forgiving than national ones or the tabloid press, particularly in an international tournament.
But the crux of the problem is the one you mention I think - there is no room for proper long-term planning and development in such a reactionary environment.
Overpaid, over indulgent self obsessed attention seekers do not interest me in the slightest. We have them in all walks of life with sports (both players and officialdom) and politics being the worst examples with the entertainment Industry coming in a poor fourth behind wannabe industrialists/bankers.
Shell suited torch nausea, taekwondo madness, racism in its many guises be it alleged national or an alleged individual (or sporting associations comically digging themselves in deeper by seemingly weak kneed pandering to a so called role model), the rantings of Platonic and Bladder or even our own local council inflicted seafront follys are all things sent to try me but ultimately they all will end in the same manner which longer term keeps my sanity and frustration levels set to mildly irritated.
Summers arrived judging by the gloomy grey skys, hospipe bans and flooding. Things are quiet down by the Riverside and mid-August seems an eternity away.
I'm with AV, the hyped Euro's hold no interest or value (no pun intended) to me, surpassed only by my total disinterst in the Southern centric sporting event being held in a few weeks time.
Interesting to see the current management merry-go-round resulting in Rodgers to Liverpool, Lambert to Villa, Bruce to Hull and Hughton departing Birmingham for the Canaries. The effect of Hughton's departure from Birmingham could leave them a weaker outfit next time round.
**AV writes: Good. Hull could suffer culture-shock too.
BORO V ENGLAND
AV. You are not often wrong and I guess you are right again. I was born in the Boro (Stanford St.) and although as an 8 year old the family moved to Bar Code Country.
I had footballer neighboughs of Tommy Gibb, Wynn Davies and Jinkie Jim Smith. I
Got free match tickets to see some great football games (Fairs Cup). My allegiences never waned, Boro through and through. Maybe it weas my dad's Mannion stories were the reason
Moved back to Billingham as a 17 year old. My first Boro game was a pre-season friendly Boro v The Mags. So I took up my place in the Holgate to cheer on Big Jack and my Boro heroes
cBoro will always come first second and third for me.
However, I am also a proud English man, something that has got stronger over the years as the experience of working and living abroad makes you realize what a fantastic country we have in England. Great Country, Great People and great fair laws. Therefore, when England play I will be at Bar Nasty watching the big screen on the beach cheering along with Cockneys, Scousers and a few nice mates. AV, After the season we have just witnessed surely even England could win
BACK TO BORO
The guys who have been talked about on Moggas shopping list sound good to me.
The lad from Donny,(Friend) sounds useful. If the guy gets players player, supporters player then he’s a good bet. Also, the young Argentine sounds the part
I had an interesting chat with a football agent the other day over a few beers. I will not name him, however he brought Kermebeu to us. Not a good reference admittedly although his wife was a great signing for us. apparently, McDonald's name is being pushed hard out here. Let’s hope the agents succeed
However, bad news if true: he says that a number of prem clubs want Rhys. Eight million is the fee talked about. We will have to wait and see. I hope Williams stays along with Bates and McMahon. We need these guys.
The next three weeks should be interesting.
Second attempt at this. Apparantly I blog to often.
**AV writes: Is that happening again? I'll get the geeks on to it.
AV -
I know what you mean about bullies but the sport also finds them out because they can receive a good group shoeing. Plus the adavntage that the oppsotion always had someone bigger and uglier to sort them out anyway.
In the same way the jinkies cannot just dominate the game
Brutal sport it can be but it does require teamwork and is one where velocity challenged players like myself can contrbute in my own way as much as the Jinkies of this world. And to a reasonable level.
It isnt for everyone but it does have a diverse range of skill sets and physical attributes
Agree with Ian Gill. Have always thought that rugby was a great sport for schools because it gives obese kids with no ball skills, but who are good at pushing, a game to play.
Venerating these qualities at national level is a different matter however.
It would be interesting to compare the pressure from supporters, and from their national Press, that is heaped onto players from, say, Brazil and Italy with the pressure placed on England players from the same sources. I have a suspicion the pressure is every bit as great from the football-mad supporters of Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Rio, and from Milan, as it is from London and Manchester.
What might be different is the ability of the team to withstand those pressures. And of course the relative footballing abilities of the players themselves.
Without re-treading the arguments, I agree that if England is ranked as a team between 8th and 12th in the world, finishing between the "round of 16" and the quarter finals would be par for the course. Some of the rankings sometimes seem a little strange. Was it a year or two ago England climbed to about 4th in the world rankings without having won a game in the previous year?
England as a national team is probably like an Everton or (apart from last season!) an Aston Villa in Premier League terms. They won't very often be "easy meat". They may be capable of beating one of the "Big Boys" but they are hardly likely to go on a spree where they beat the international equivalent of Man Utd in one knock-out round, then Cheslea, then Man City in the same tournament. And that is what you have to do to win at the top level.
I know Everton have won the League in living memory. I know that Villa have won the League then, once, the European Cup. Just like England having (once, when the tournament was held at home) won the World Cup. But none of these examples are likely to be repeated very soon.
Some people have over-hyped expectations. Realists probably think England will progress from their group but are likely to end their participation at the first, or second, knock-out round (depending on the opposition). And that is probably about par for their level.
Most England fans might feel satisfied with that level of performance, whilst hoping for better in the next Tournament (though, in reality, we must all realise there is NO CHANCE of success in the Brazil World Cup). Does anyone on here believe that the fans of Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy and now Spain, would be even remotely "satisfied" with being knocked out in the quarter-finals of a competition?
That's basically because, maybe 80% of the times, their teams are better than England. And every now and then, a Croatia, a Uruguay or a Russia up their game as well.
Not against England - just being realistic. Boro to win silverware before England would be a fair bet.
While on the subject, it seems to me the average standard of teams at the Euros is rather higher than the average at the World Cup. Can you imagine (geographic requirements aside) a World Cup group made up of teams such as Denmark, Germany, Portugal and Holland; or Spain, Italy, Croatia and Ireland. No Costa Rica, Trinidad, Laos or New Zealand there to make up the numbers.
And I warmed to the discussion about rugby. At my school there was only rugby in the winter, with athletics, tennis and cricket in the summer. In the 6th Form it was possible to play hockey instead of rugby and it was only in the last year I was there that football was introduced (for one term!). Not surprisingly, many of the best rugby players were also the best football players.
The argument that rugby at least caters for all sizes and shapes has some merit. Tank-like props with plenty of strength but not necessarily speed, giants for the back row (and for the line-outs!), speedy side-stepping wingers, ball-playing half-backs who have good hands and good footballing skills for kicking, the "middleweight" centres who have the best combination of speed and yet strength so as to crash through to create gaps yet also able to bring down their onrushing opponents.... To co-opt a phrase, all human life can be found there.
There is, it is fair to say, more of a physical threat to playing rugby than football. A rubbish football full-back might be made to look a bit of a fool as the Jinky Johnson winger goes past him for the umpteenth time in the first half; he might be subbed if that goes on or be the cause of several goals conceded if he stays on the field, but at least he should come out of it physically unscathed even if his spirit is bruised.
On the other hand the diminutive rugby player who finds himself hitting a brick wall, tackled by a 14 stone centre who can do 100 yards in 11 seconds might have more to fear in a physical sense. In general terms it is not a good idea for a second team prop to find himself in the first team for some forgotten reason, with a rugby Blue packing down behind him, and a really solid first team scrum pushing the other way. The immovable object that is the opposition scrum being attacked by irresistible bulldozer force coming from behind, with only a second team backbone between them (and giving every impression of being the shape of an English longbow). Ouch!
The thing about it was that, no longer being forced to play, but playing because invited and out of CHOICE, makes all the difference. That, and realising that, if you get stuck in you rarely get hurt! It's the flinching to keep out of harm's way that seems to annoy the gods. Get stuck in, and you'll be fine. And enjoy a few beers afterwards....
Would agree with Jeff it would be a shame if Rhys goes this summer but if £8m is the figure I would take their hands off.
We could comfortably put in four good signings for that and give SG some change.
As for England I think the London connection is the problem. If they would play the odd game up North it would help maybe we all would feel part of the set up.
Wembley has to be paid for but so much happens in London surely they could play three home games a year away from there. Hope they do well but wont be too upset if they dont.
Watching the Ireland game last night, don't those Croatians has strange names, right mouthfulls some of them.
That Macantich one made me smile, not so much for his surname but who would wish for a christian name: Davedeedozybeeky.
I'll get me coat
It's been alluded to a few times in the article at the top and in some of the responses - but the problem to me is glaringly obvious. The results driven youth football in this country is giving England no chance.
I'm a coach for my boy's under 10 team. The parents have tried to run me and the other coach out of the club recently because we've tried to introduce a fair policy of equal playing time for all kids, where we focus on enjoyment and improving confidence.
This is not what parents want - the want the best players to be playing, battering other 10 year olds into submission. They want their kids to be shouted at and instructed what to do - they definitely don't want to keep quiet and let the kids learn by their mistakes and, crucially, not be afraid of taking risks. They want the not-so-good kids to be given less time and the worst ones to be asked to leave the club.
And this is true of clubs up and down the country. We just played a tournament at the weekend and the amount of shouting from the other coaches was unbelievable. One team had five coaches (for a six-a-side tournament) all dressed up in their matching jackets and wearing full kit and each of them screaming confusing instructions to the kids.
One of our teams actually won the tournament - but even then we were still criticised for our coaching methods!
Its a truly thankless task where coaches who do care and try to do it right are driven out - So many leave within a year of qualifying its untrue.
Until the culture in this country changes we are never going to produce world class teams.
Witness Ireland and Croatia last night - similar sizes in population but miles apart in technical skills on the football pitch.
The FA is trying to sort this out by delaying 11-a-side until U13s and by raising the age when league tables are introduced. But the media and the people who buy the red-tops are the ones that need to change.
Sadly, I'm afraid it ain't going to happen any time soon.
Rant over.
I like European Championships. I don't much like to watch TV but World Cup and Euros will glue our family to the TV. Even though Finland have never played there.
I will support England as said our National team is not there. I trust Hodgson - a former national manager of Finland - will do a good job there. I don't think England have many world class players up front until Rooney can play.
I agree that the PL have too many foreign players there. See the news on the Barcodes and Plunderland today - they are after an Ajax and Spanish player respectably. As Mogga says the players are cheaper on the Continent. Short term English teams save money but the National team talent and experience loses here.
Also could it be that every team look forward to beat England? The home land of football. But then again every body likes to beat the Germans and Spain, too.
Back to Boro. George Friend, 24-old ball-playing full-back is tough, athletic and
strong in the tackle but can also get forward and can play in left midfield.
Sounds a good back-up to both Bennett and Arca on the left. More competition. I hope this does not prevent our own youngster to develop, though (not Arca but Park and Reach).
Up the Boro!
Spot on Ben. Making all age groups into 11 a side league formats mirroring pro football is a recipe for disaster in terms of developing technical skills.
Often the kids have to play on full size adult pitches into the bargain. This situation favours big physical kids and others can often become incidental and probably become disillusioned.
The mentality of the parents can drive you crackers as well! There again its part of our culture so it will take a long time and effort to change things. Everything isn't black and white though and I personally do yell at games but I like to think I'm constructive and supportive and I wouldnt dream of favouring my teams in terms of cheating etc - but I would say these things, wouldnt I?
It is difficult not to pick your best team and keep on the better players for various reasons (the players want that - though obviously not the weaker ones). It is a thankless task running a team and being criticised by folk who don't help in any way except turn up with their kid.
By the way, all notions of fair play go out of the window when it comes to Boro!
Sick of all these comentators ,hacking up Downing. For me Young is the most over-rated player in the squad. And what's with all the Scottish, Irish, French, you name it, all covering England games on TV?
Agree with the comments on kids football. I too used to run a team, when the lads were nine they played on a full size pitch, (I realise it has changed recently).
Have you ever seen an eight or nine year old between full size goals posts?
The worst part was that all our lads were small, they could all play but they were hardly strong enough to kick the ball (size 4), the teams we played against all had a couple of big lads at the back, couldn't play but they could belt the ball 30 or 40 yards, it was comical at times.
My lads would take about 10 minutes to pass from one end of the pitch to the other but when we lost the ball, it was belted back into our box. Our keeper couldn't kick the ball too far so the other managers would place about eight of his players on the edge of the box.
The changes that are to be implemented have to be for the better.
So Stewie is unlikely to start against France tonight, thats what the BBC are saying as young Oxlade-Chamberlain will get the nod on the left.
May be a blessing in disguise for Stewie as the journos wont be on his case.
I cant see us beating France whether he plays or not but you can see us surrendering even more of the ball. He looks a bright prospect but his style is having a go. That is fine but if the rest are giving the ball away that will only compound matters.
I wish him well, I wont pretend I have no interest at all in how England do, I support all England teams but wont lose any sleep if the result goes against us.
Regarding kid's football, have a read of "You win nothing with kids" by Jim White who is, I think, a Telegraph journo. It is both funny and informative, recalling his experiences as a reluctant coach of his son's team.
On the Euro's - why not just sit back and enjoy a three week "footy fest" in what is normally the fooball wasteland of June?
RE: Comments on Gazette stories.
"I rarely dip in but when I do it seems to me to have a peculiar atmosphere. There seems almost a competitive urge to be first to disparage the story, the player and the club."
It's actually not as bad as you'd think (you must have caught a few funny threads). You get that, of course, but most people are very positive on there. It's just a bit rough at the moment because it's the old mid season break and so, basically, there are no stories.....and BOY! Do the Gazette get shot down for that!
In general though its quite light hearted and amusing, and if you take todays story of Big Mick possibly leaving you'll see that nearly everyone is wishing him well but seeing that it makes sense, etc. You have no idea where people get some of their theories but thats part of the fun.....like I said in a previous post, it's not cold or nasty like some of the weirdos you get on Yahoo etc. Anyway! There you go, cheers again.
**AV writes: It has been quiet storywise. We have just come through the quietest two weeks in the football calendar. It's been a ghost town down there but all the clubs are like that. And it is not as if we are windowshopping at the Euros like we used to. That said, Mogga was back in today so things should start to stir now. That should perk the board (this one and the Gazette commentariat.)
Yes peaeye - I've read "You win nothing with kids" by Jim White. It's an excellent, funny read and remarkably accurate. Highly recommended.
Not bothered about England. Unless Boro players are involved. Then I just want them to come through unscathed - from injury and all the scapegoating crap.
I used to like "the old days" of international football when we had loads of players involved in the Euros/WC from all different countries and almost every game had a real interest for us, either because of current players, former players or realistic transfer targets. Long gone I fear.
**AV writes: That's the ground I have covered in this week's Big Picture column... from the days when Boro bought members of the winning team of two World Cups running to desperately grabbing second hand glory through Sean St Ledger. Boro's long fall from international grace.
Very sad to read what Ben Owens said at 10.40am yesterday. But somehow not very surprising.
It's a fair bet they have been doing things very differently with young players in Holland in recent decades. A four foot tall eight year old keeper standing in a goal 24 feet wide and eight feet high. Laughable!
Big Mick to Bristol? Good luck and thanks for your efforts, I always liked his apparent honesty and if we save money and he gets to play it is a winner all round.
Read that we will take a big hit on the £1.5m we paid for him, do clubs depreciate the assets over their contracts? Even if we dont it would hardly be the loss we got on Mido, Alves, Aliadiere,Maccarone etc.
Quick comment about England following on from comments by many posters such as Ben Owens.
Putting my England hat on the result was as good as we were likely to get. You could liken it to us getting a fighting draw away at a good club in the premiership, you would have taken it before kick off.
The problem of keeping the ball is an old one, I remember Gazza always having to keep back to his own box to get the ball.
We have tricky players but they have to operate from deep. We had the same problem at Boro when we had Jinky and Downing, they had to play all their football from their own half.
**AV writes: On fees, yes, clubs 'amortise' the transfer fee over the lifespan of a contract in their accounts to help factor in depreciation.
Agree with the main original point. You can't just transfer deep, unconditional passion for your club to the national team, or another club for that matter.
Anyway even if I did want to support a Lahndan side, it would probably be Arsenal, Fulham or Leyton Orient rather than Ingerlund.
Like most folk on here I agree with your comments about England, AV, but I do want them to do well and I will be watching.
We'll win nowt, though. Just look at the stats from the France game - we had something like 31% of possession and most of our players, including Young and Oxlade-Chamberlain, had very poor passing success rates compared with the French. Apparently Young did not make 1 single pass to his fellow striker, Wellbeck, in the whole of the game! Says it all really about the style of our play and the technical ability of the squad.
And the fact that Adam Johnson isn't even in the first 11 is almost unbelievable - he's playing with the Champions, has great ability and flair to get past defenders and scores his share of goals. Instead, we stick with antediluvian 442!
Perhaps Hodgson is trying to emulate Chelsea v Barcelona? Stop the opposition playing and sneak one on the break. Or perhaps he's trying to bore the opposition into submission? I despair.
Roll on Boro fixtures next week.
England expects but not as much as the Premier League does!
The gravy train got a mighty injection of ahhh Bisto (other food enhancing products are available)) with the anouncement of a 70% increase in TV money.
The new reality only applies to the like of us. The folly of August 2008 is a spectre that wont go away.
And Harry leaves Spurs!
Interesting line about the new TV deal, it appears that the bottom club will get more guaranteed TV money than City did for winning the title.
Wonder how big our crumbs will be? How will the new deal affect the rest of us?
Will we all just end up pottering along with Vic wearing his sandwich board predicting the end is nigh whilst the rich boys get ever richer?
**AV writes: It's reinforcing the glass ceiling that has been gradually laid down over the past three or four years. That is starting to take on a look of permanence. It is bad news for middling sized clubs who have ambition but who are currently outside the elite but good news for high performance car salesmen everywhere.
The play offs will become like the old version. Remember when the consisted of the second bottom top tier team and 2-4 th from the old second division?
Most years the top flight club saw off the upstarts so promotion was just one club until we broke the run by beating Chelsea.
You can see a sub elite of yo-yo clubs swapping places season about where the only excitement will be is the season they have to play with those boys from the lower division. They wont have parachutes so much as luxury escape capsules a bit like the lunar modules. A quick trip down into danger then back up to safety.
Welcome to Ians blog, anybody else out there?
Dont want to post on the Colin Henderson blog, wrong place to talk out football and would be disrespectful.
Skysports.com have ten transfer targets to avoid, of of them is the following heading 'Any Striker From The Scottish Premier League'.
Nuff said though Jelavic has done well at Everton.
**AV writes: I think everyone is on holiday. It'll liven up on Monday with the fixtures. 9am... I'm officially excited.
When a new piece by AV appears I tend not to look back at old threads, and if this is the common practice then it explains the lack of responses on the current England matches. As Ian says the tributes to Colin Henderson thread is not an appropriate place for such comments.
Open up a new thread with a single sentence asking for reactions to England, and the floodgates will open. I think.
**AV writes: I don't. History shows that only current Boro political hot potatoes that provokes opinion and shows up the tensions in the rara/chickenrunner divide get posts flowing. The fixtures on Monday for instance will have some people picking out the play-off deciders and others pointing out exactly where we will be relegated.
Len -
AV may be right, in my view there is a wider perspective than just our goldfish bowl.
Just one example... the new premiership income will have an effect down at our level whether it is to do with the purchasing powers of relegated clubs or the quality of crumbs that trickles down.
The same goes for Uefa and EU concerns about the Premiership money. They seem to prefer the Spanish model where two clubs get everything and the rest can whistle.
The politically correct response is to rail against the money and power in the Premiership and pray for the balloon to go pop. The last pay deal shows that aint going to happen any time soon, despite everyones wishes the alternatives dont seem any better from our viewpoint.
My stance is to worry about getting our trotters back in the trough. We mismanaged our off the gravy train and have wasted chances to get back on board.
Still, fixtures out tomorrow and trips to the odd new ground loom.