Pigbag, Pavlov And The Death Of Success
PIGBAG is dead! Down with the old order! All hail the Power Game! Is there no end to the wave of deep seated revolutionary change sweeping the world?
One thing is for sure, the return of the much loved Ayresome Park fan's favourite cheesy small screen theme tune hotel organist bossanova classic is as subliminal as it gets: it screams we are back where we started, a cash strapped second tier also-rans.
The Cyril Stapelton classic is pure nostalgia: Brucie, Bernie, Mogga, Dial-a-Duck, the Gazette Match Edition, joeys, the Chickenrun, the BBC, ICI donkey-jackets straight from a shift, "Centrefold," Bernard Gent's Radio Ayresome. Do the Hustle!
And the fact that the switch has come about as the result of a broad-based supporters poll - 900 is a sizeable sample - shows more than anything the old school Ayresome crowd are back in the majority. Many of the post-Sky Sports influx excited by a plush new ground and the glamour of big name players and the product of sexy football (or "band-wagon jumping glory-hunters" in the terrace vernacular) have evaporated. Next up, a hoarding aimed at the Red Faction instructing: "Mogga Requests....."
I love the Power Game. When I watch old footage of Ayresome I hear it inside my head. And I've got it on my phone as a dedicated ring tone for the MFC complaints hotline ("hello Dave *sigh* now what have I done"). I have never liked Pigbag. I haven't got it on my phone - although I know a lot of people have. You used to hear it going off all the time; in pubs, in shops, in the beer aisles in the Asda or in the back room where the plaster was just slimming the ceiling. Not so much these days though. Once ubiquitous the sound is a dated, tired relic of the past and a little bit embarrassing. Like a shellsuit.
But you can say what you want about Pigbag - the Pavlovian trigger for cynically orchestrated, dead-eyed seal clapping is the kind of phrase I usually fall back on - in it's naive foam-fingered flush of youth it was the all pervasive soundtrack to our glory years. The delirious co-ordinated clap-clap-clap-clap/der-der-derring was a popular and eardrum-bursting constant in the crazy blur of three Wemboroley trips in 14 months, blew the roof off the Millenium Stadium. We even took it on a sell-out European tour. It was the sound of success. It will become entwined in our memories with glory. Eventually.
But it is over. Relegation and falling crowds have seen it off. Its power was centred on the hypnotic cocktail of hope, ambition and tangible success, and its grip on the crowd was based on sell-outs and people getting to know their neighbours. It is the herd instinct to join in when surrounded by 30,000 plus wild eyed believers. You suspend any social reservations if everyone is doing the same thing, the thing you have been conditioned to do by a particular sound (that's why people used to pretend to be rowing a boat to that Gap Band/Holgate Gaskins' classic "You'll Get A Boot Wrapped Round Your Head"). Try doing it on your own and you look a prat.
Pigbag can't work in a third full ground. It needs the emotional magnification of the elbow to elbow encouragement. When your nearest neighbour is five seats away and two rows down, and when he is tucking into a burger and sullenly reading the programme, you can't seriously stand and clap enthusiastically without squirming and dieing a little bit inside. You can see the look of terror in people's eyes now when MMP presses the Pavlovian trigger and they are forced to wrestle between obligation and subliminal pressure on the one hand and the realisation of the futility of their solo actions and vulnerability and exposure to ridicule on the other.
So Pigbag is dead. Well not dead. It has been relegated to the official run-out music for those just nipping back for the second half after visiting the toilet and 'queueing' for a pie (stopping only to wash their hands in between you trust). But, after being moved from pride of place to the back room it is only a matter of time before it is boxed up and stuck in the loft. We'll get it down for the big anniversaries. Maybe years down the line there will be an internet campaign to reinstate it for the 20th anniversary of Eindhoven.
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Glad to see the back of pigbag, unfortunately they will still be playing music when we score - I thought that kind of thing was for ice hockey and other Amercian sports. I think its a little embarrassing myself.
Maybe it is a sign that we are now in this division to stay, if we stay up that is.
It was a very good result on Saturday given the debacle the week before.
welcome back old friend
C'Mon Boro!
I remember chanting 'You'll get a boot.....' at Roker Park, we won 2-0 (I think),I also remember being escorted back to the station and passing a corner shop where an old lady stood outside telling us all to 'eff off' as we filed passed! She was at least 70, proper football that was.
All things must come to an end and dumping Pigbag is a good move, love it or hate it, it is time for something new.
Lets hope having both Mogga and the Power Game back is a sign from the gods of a re-birth!
Well, not so much 'deep seated revolutionary change' as 'even deeper seated retrenchment' and the illusion of comfort in nostalgia.
But, it is an appropriate sign of the times 'sweeping the Boro World'.
As redcartim says, 'we are now in this division for the foreseable, if we stay up that is'.
Mogga has - in the style of things nowadays and the mark of the man - has come out and confirmed that, honestly. Also - in a parallel but very different vein - there is silence from Gibbo and The Count.
I can but praise the consultation exercises that went on before the decisions were made - more please. I took part in the web based exercise and glad to see that a number of folk got a chance to put their ideas to Mogga, Neil Bausor and others, face to face.
Just one comment on the Pigbag v Power Game exercise that I made when I responded to the online voting. The choice for music to be played at the start of 'festivities' was between these two options.
My preference - as I said - would have been not to have gone with either. Both for the reasons you outline, AV. Pigbag's out of time now and Power Game should have stayed just what it was - a blast of nostalgia but not resurrected.
My strong preference would have been to recognise a line drawn under the recent past - and the distant past - and look to rebuild for the future with a brand new theme tune.
That would have helped signal revolutionary change sweeping the Boro World and - like what is going on in the Middle East - might hold out the hope for something better, more honest and real for the future. Even if there is something of a rocky road to take to get there in the short and medium term.
This is for Jarkko, but requires AV's help.
Jarkko, my wife and I would be happy to offer you somewhere to stay for a few nights if it helps you afford your costly trip more easily. We were thinking you might wish to use us as a base before the Hull match, you would be very welcome!
If you wish to take us up on our offer, perhaps AV might forward you our e-mail address and we can arrange something. I go to all the matches, so could lift you and your wife to the stadium and back, no problem!
Oh, and we won't be offended if you'd rather not!
**AV writes: A very generous offer. Top man.
If MMP needs to indulge in playing music after we score perhaps a little more imagination in the form of every player having their own "anthem" rather than Chelsea Dagger" at least it would raise a few smiles instead of cringes.
On the subject of MMP a volume control knob would be a "nice to have". Fans want to talk, discuss team selection and tactics, who they put a fiver on for the 1st goal and not having to shout through being deafened by insipid and inane ramblings and equally bad music before kick off and again at half time.
In fairness to him MMP was (and deep down probably still is) much better than what we now endure so perhaps he can get back to his 80's best at the same time and review his repertoire.
Might be a bit of Fun for some suggestions as to what tune goes best with which Player.
"Goals Meanz Hines" (no irony intended), "Mac the Knife" for our free kick specialist, "Rockin Robbo" anyone (nah), or how about the Muppets "Manamana" (altered to "Zemmamama")? There are a few rusty Rangers chants for Kris Boyd to the tune of "Yellow Submarine" but not really suitable for this forum but assuming that one day he finds the back of the net what about:
"Kris Boyd,
Kris Boyd,
Krissy, Krissy Boyd,
He get's the ball,
He scores a goal,
Krissy, Krissy Boyd..."
or for Andrew Davies (assuming he continues with how he started)
Why Don't You Come Home,
Why Don't You Come Hoooooome,
Andrew Davies,
Why Don't You Come Home.
or Scott MacDonald
"He comes from a land down under, scoring goals and full of Thunder"
Theres a challenge to fellow posters and to MMP!
I haven't read the main post yet but before I forget, and to help Jarkko, I thought I should explain.
In the previous thread Vic mentioned a beano. That is short for a beanfeast - that is a celebration or a party (such as those put on by an employer for his staff, like a Christmas Party, but really any party will do). The consumption of food and drink is almost compulsory!
The "Beano" is also a much loved children's comic in the UK. So when Vic mentioned the word in his reply at 8.12pm yesterday, contributors responded with a series of puns, naming other well-known comics - the "Dandy", "Wizard" (actually is that "Whizzer & Chips" or was there a Wizard as well?), "Eagle", "Victor" etc. And Roy of the Rovers in the archetypical football hero from our youthful comics, who played for fictional Melchester Rovers.
When a great goal is scored, or some magnificent feat of football is performed (like a 3-0 win away at Arsenal) it is often referred to as "Roy of the Rovers stuff".
I suspect from early comments, that several contributors would be happy to meet somewhere for a quiet half (or three).
And incidentally, Jarkko, there is no need for you to be shy or apologetic about your English vocabulary. I think it would be a fairly safe assumption to say that you are the only one on this site who can speak Finnish, and if you listen to interviews with English footballers, you are doing much better than most of them (OK - a stereotype there!). In fact in England if a player speaks good English in an interview it's a fair bet he is Dutch or Scandinavian (and he might be fluent in German, French and Italian as well).
All we know here is that Finnish is very different from most European languages. We have trouble with understanding televisio for television, bussi (for bus), auto (for car) and kahvi (coffee) etc. Oh the irony.
Surely the appropriate, and far too obvious, Zemmama melody would be the Crosby Stills & Nash classic Marrakesh Express
'...we've taken him from Marrakesh...all aboooard...the train...'
In a hotel in Sunderland with Mrs G and had to drive past the SOS. Most depressing.
What is wrong with something by Chris Rea?
Pigbag deserves some one to speak in it's defence. Who better than Alan Green who once described the pre game atmosphere at the Riverside as unmatched at any ground in England. Sure we might politely shelve it while the ground is half or more empty. But there will be a time, not to far away I hope, and when we are en route to the Premiership, when it should be dusted down and returned to us.
Pigbag is basically worn out and we could do with a rest from it.
I noticed your call in tonights Gazette AV for Gibson or Lamb to break their silence. Whilst I agree with the call in principle I cant see it happening until it is certain [we hope] that we will be playing Championship football next year.They would look pretty stupid making statements that assume survival if we then ended up going down.
**AV writes: So long as there is a void from the club the 24/7 Borosphere will be filled with wild rumour, speculation and mischief making... fears of liquidation, nonsense about trying to get relegated or aiming to scrape 10 points clear so they can go into administration. It is not being challenged. We won at the weekend so the cloud of nagativity and moan-in hysteria has abated a touch but it hasn't gone away. Without an assertive alternative view the rumours gain credence.
The clubs face two problems. One is that Gibson "promised" to go back on Tees soon. If he doesn't keep that promise it adds to the gathering weight of opinion that he doesn't care any more, or has nothing to offer, or is hiding.
The other is that they leave it until we are safe to make a public appearance it will be seen as cynical opportunism designed to market season tickets. Then no-one will believe them.
Better that they are honest now, tell some harsh truths and take the flak. It will take the pressure off Mogga, allow people to discharge emotional energy and let the club put in place the first planks of the ST charm offensive.
More good news. Boro didn't surrender a lead tonight, we didn't go behind, we didn't concede a goal at all. We missed no tackles and had no players booked. Could have been worse....
Does this amount to a glass-at-least-half- full occasion?
Loved pigbag in its prime, and sad to see it go. Even now it still gets spontaneous bursts at away games, which shows its enduring popularity. Maybe that's where it is best left to.
Who on earth voted for after-goal music though?
**AV writes: Especially, given the times they have stabbed us in the heart at Wembley, a tune called Chelsea Dagger! Who thought that one through?
Must admit I voted/suggested the following:
Riverside by Sidney Sampson
but I think it was too modern lol.
I would like to put forward Fanfare for the Common Man by Emerson, Lake and Palmer.
I find this very appropriate, especially in this world of footballers being over paid prima donnas, whilst the Common Man who is paying their wages struggles to put petrol in his car and food on the table, as he watches these people drive to their mansions in their supercars!
Plus this is a good, up-beat tune. Nice to see the Boro run out to this.
Also maybe No.9 Dream by John Lennon, because we all dream of a proper No.9 playing for the Boro, one who bangs the goals in regularly, and scares the opposition every time he gets the ball.
Plus the opening verse of "So long ago, was it in a dream? Was it just a dream? I know, yes I know, it seemed so very real, seemed so real to me."... Brings back fond memories because it really wasn't so long ago, was it Stevie and Larry?
Still smiling from the weekend!
Red Army.
AV, the silence from those two has gone on too long you are right, and you are right in your response to stockton red.
It is better they come out now and face the music rather than allow every fan to see it as a cynical ST charm offensive.
halifaxp -
A very generous offer - absolutely great. Not for the costs but to get to know people better. The main reason I love to visit Teesside and North Yorkshire is to see Boro and meet normal people in every day situations - not the sightseeing anymore (Middlesbrough and sightseeing? Yorkshire OK).
Actually my wife wants to see the Brontë Parsonage Museum in Haworth, Keighley. Isn't that near you, too? But anyway I have sent my e-mail address to AV already for contact.
Dormo -
Thanks for the explanations. I knew Roy of the Rovers as they tried to make a Finnish version in the 1980's or something.
My writing is quite good now and I need to talk regularly on phone, too. All my work colleges work in Belgium (and some in Dumfries) and we communicate in English.
But I don't learn your local slang there. Hence I follow this blog. By the way footy is futis but football is jalkapallo in Finnish. But computer is tietokone!
Hope to see many of you for a beano in April (somewhere between matches against Barnsley and Coventry). Up the Boro!
"cash strapped second tier also rans" - ouch! - but true.
Jarkko's coming home - hes coming - Jakko's coming home!!!!
And some say the internet only creates virtual friends!!! (Nice one Mr Halifax)
Wunderbar ( closest I could get to the Finish lingo) :)
Are we really discussing what Music to play at a match?
Anyway back to the football, here is proof positive that the wrong man was appointed after Eindhoven.
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/When-a-Football-Manager-player-applied-for-the-M?urn=sow-325075
I used to send a very similar letter and CV too. I didnât get many responses but I did get a polite rebuttal from Stoke.
However I did apply for the Sunderland job twice, once being over looked in favour of Howard Wilkinson!! On each occasion Sunderland wrote to inform me, they managed to misspell my surname, which is some achievement as there is only four letters. A mackem joke perhaps?
Ian Gill said:
"In a hotel in Sunderland with Mrs G and had to drive past the SOS. Most depressing.
What is wrong with something by Chris Rea?"
We've been on the Road to Hell for quite some time now and I'd rather we got off it!
Which Rea song would be inspiring to run out to?
Smogonthetyne now on the Moon -
Absolutely great link! SG has a sense of humor there.
Up the Bor0!
AV - thanks for the help. I have been in direct contact with Pete from Halifax.
Great to be a Boro fan. Up the Boro!
**AV writes: It's nice when a plan comes together.
**AV writes: It's nice when a plan comes together......
Especially when the Gazette springs for a box....
**AV writes: You'll be lucky. Box of Smarties maybe...
I won't have a word said against MMP,he did make me smile with his ramblings on a Sunday morning on BFBS Germany in the 80's, fond memories of Major Forcitt-Home et.al!
Great to have the Power Game back accompanying great memories from my early years at Ayresome Park. Stainby Girls is one of my favourite CR songs, not sure it would be suitable but it does work up to a nice crescendo.
Smogonthetyne now on the Moon said:
"Are we really discussing what Music to play at a match?"
With a title of Pigbag, Pavlov And The Death Of Success did you think it would be about anything else?
It's all about memories, and that being said, I think we should not be going back to the Power Game. That came before PigBag, and should be left in the archives of Boro past. We need something new and fresh, like Fanfare for the Common Man.
And just in case some of you fellow bloggers have not got my humour yet, I was joking about No.9 Dream in an earlier post.
Are there any songs mentioning Steed Malbranque that we could use?
Red Army.
Can we have the old badge back now please !
John
Which Chis Rea song?
Steel River - what else? (well, for me personally, it could be Stainsby Girls - but that's another story from a long time ago. Before I met the current Mrs. Powls, you understand!)
Glad to see the back of Pigbag, its become a joke for a number of years now amongst away fans. It certainly belongs to the shiny happy world of our recent past.
Anyway, totally on board with The Power Game now that we have found our level with the loyal few fans again! I think our great little club wil take off again, it's in our bones!
Pleased to see "The Power Game" back. For those debating alternative themes with a Middlesbrough connection, how about "All Right Now"
Someone (Ian Gill I think) was recently curious about the average age of UB posters. On the basis that we are describing Fanfare for the common man by Emerson Lake and Palmer as "new and fresh", the fact that we can even remember it, would suggest most of us are well past our prime!
AV...where can I get a Power Game ring tone?
**Av writes: I downloaded it off a Boro song compilation CD a few years ago. Can't you save it as an mp3 from the YouTube clip on this blog? You may need to google for a conversion programme but it'll only take 43 seconds. Unless it is illagl for copyright reasons in which case, I don't know.
Chris Rea/.... how about Lets Dance
'When you sing of the joy only love can bring
Heaven knows it's in my heart and my soul
Caught in a world full of tears
So many bad times and fears
So while there's a chance and you're near
Let's dance
Let's dance
There's a world far away from the one we see
There's a dream I will never let go
One thing is certainly true
This moment's for me and for you
So while there's not a thing that we can do
Let's dance
Let's dance'
Very much Boro to me.
Onto the Beano. it is all very well Roy comimg with his mate Alf Tupper. One Dan will be Desperate and the other will come if he Dare. Whilst Dennis is a menace and should be there, what about Mrs Jarkko?
Maybe we should be inviting Bunty and Trudy. June could come as well and bring her Schoolfriend.
**AV writes: Valiant effort!
"AV said...it screams we are back where we started, a cash strapped second tier also-rans".
But why has it happened, AV, and so quickly too?
I loved Pigbag in our prime. I cringe when I hear it now.
As embarrassing as an old shell suit is a perfect analogy.
I also agree that we need something fresh and up to date - not powergame.
David of Redcar said: "Can we have the old badge back now please!"
YES PLEASE! Maybe we should get a petition together to see if we can resurrect it. I would definitely sign it. Anyone else?
RED ARMY - with the old badge!
Agree with both Ian Gill and Dave
Lets dance............tick
Old Badge.............tick
"Lets Dance" could be our "You'll never walk alone" or "Amarillo". Chris Rea is local and at least was if still isn't a season Ticket holder!
Dusts of the original from that Cup Run a decade ago, clears throat......
"Let's sing of the joy that Boro bring
Heaven knows
They're in our hearts and our souls
We're caught in a world full of tears
So many sad times and fears
So while there's a chance and they're here
Let's dance
Let's dance
We're on our way
To the place where legends play
There's a dream I will never let go
One thing is certainly true
This moment's for me and for you
So while there's not a thing
That we can do
Let's dance
Let's dance"
I guess when people talk about the old badge they mean the circular badge with the lion (gules? rampant? sinister? I don't claim to know about heraldry), the date 1986 and the legend "Middlesbrough" around the circumference at the top and "Football Club" around the circumference at the bottom.
In other words the badge from the club rescued after our financial difficulties which caused the Ayresome gates to be padlocked, and the season to begin at Hartlepool. The badge as worn when we terrorised Roma, Basel, Stuttgart etc and at the Milennium Stadium.
This being compared with the recently (re) introduced shield showing the same red lion, the word "Middlesbrough" at the top and "Football Club" on a ribbon at the foot (with the date 1876 at the base).
How about simply having the circular badge as proudly worn across Europe but with the date 1876?
**AV writes: I always think "the old badge" means THE old badge. It always did before they brought in "the new badge".
Forever Dormo -
You never know, there may a badge just round the corner with 2011 or 2012 on it.
Hopefully it wont be designed as part of a primary school competition like the last one, I should retract that comment as it is unfair to primary schools.
Of course it will soon be 25 years since the Ayresome Gates were locked. Maybe we can have an historical pageant with Uncle Eric getting his gear out of the loft.
Reprints of the articles, getting Brucies Babes back together.
Well I have good news from sunny Bahrain, yes the winds of change are certainly blowing but that win at Milwall has changed my spread sheet from red to green in a most dramatic fashion.
Can someone tell me that one swallow doesn't make a summer, otherwise I will start hoping that relegation may be behind us.
..... and I wouldn't want my hopes to be raised now would I?
Bin the new badge, re-instate the old with the date changed to 1876 as suggested by Forever Dormo (the badge should never have been changed).
The Power Game isn't appropriate for a forward thinking, modern club - it's a bit like comfort eating or getting smashed when the present doesn't provide the emotional nourishment that you need
I strongly advise SG and KL to follow the lead of TM and tell us all 'like it is'. Bin the 'on-message' mantra. Do it now. Whatever the situation really is we can't 'deal with it' until we know what it is, and the imagination (which is all we have at present) is the most destructive weapon that I can think of
This point has been made so many times before however...adversity isn't new to this club, this town or its people. When times are tough generally we close ranks, we stand together, we'll get behind the club (those that really care). Let's build from that foundation
In TM we have the right manager, at last, with the right approach and a heritage that was forged in the heat of the most adverse conditions this club has ever faced.
As of now SG and KL stand apart from the rest - at least that's how I feel it, 6,500 miles away in distance but a heartbeat away in truth
We have a need and an opportunity to rebuild. there are so many column inches devoted to looking back, lamenting over the wasted millions, and now we have The Power Game
What happened?? Let's dust ourselves down, accept the reality of the situation, and get back in there and carve out a future we can all be proud of
Where did we use THE old badge(the one with a lion and ship motifs)?
When I started supporting Boro in 1970's we had a plain lion and letters MFC on the shirt. There was no official badge used in the shirt at all!
So the current one is like we had the 1970's or early 1980's - only a "badge" behind the same lion. Let the current one be at it is. I looks good on the adidas gear.
Is the Power Game too retro? We must move forward and I quite like the Chris Rea idea here. He is Boro lad and his parents were connected to Boro business wise, weren't they?
Up the Boro!
**AV writes: While the minimalist lion was used on the shirts, the 'ships' badge was used on things like the programme and staionary and those little pennants and badges you could buy in the shop on Kensington Road *sighs wistfully*
Did we just have the lion on the shirt in the 70s? That's what I'd go for, no writing whatsoever.
Are you going to the Hull away game Jarkko? I'm planning on going to it, one of the few northern grounds I haven't been to, we should have an untypical get-to-gether as we cheer on our push for the playoffs which will surely be in full swing by then.
Quite gutted that a mate's 30th in York is forcing me to miss Saturday's game, I'm seriously considering ditching him. At least there is another game not long after it.
That would normally indicate we will thrash QPR, but my Dad is going and he last saw us win v Burnley in September. Since then he's been to 8 home games, W0 D4 L4, culminating in the Swansea debacle. When others have taken his ticket, our record is W4 D0 L0.
In conclusion, my prediction: 4-4 draw.
John P -
whilst Steel River might be the quintessential song for Middlesbrough (and would fit with the stadium sat next to the river), the actual song itself is most certainly not inspiring. It's a sunday morning music song to listen to while reading the paper.
I do like the suggestion of All Right Now - since Paul Rodgers is also a Boro lad and the guitar rift is one of those inspiring pieces that makes the song something special but I don't know whether there is enough of that in there.
Let's Dance would be great as a song for the Crowd to sing. But even all of those don't really fit the bill in my mind for the players to run out to.
Saying that I don't know what else does so I guess it really is going to have to be the Power Game. But just like Juninho was not quite as good as he was in his first spell, I fear the Power Game is the same and should remain part of the clubs legend.
Pigbag had its time and place.
Living in Derby I used it for my ringtone after the two thumpings we gave the Rams in succesive seasons.
When the mobile went off the Derby fans visibly twitched, we had all gone up to the the matches and they were well and truly hacked off.
We all went up together for the first match but we were staying with relatives for the second. In the middle of the second half of the second match I sent a text asking where we were meeting up, the reply was the Vine in Mickleover as they had just got onto the A19.
Pigbag wasnt all bad when we had a full ground.
**AV writes: While the minimalist lion was used on the shirts, the 'ships' badge was used on things like the programme and staionary and those little pennants and badges you could buy in the shop on Kensington Road *sighs wistfully*
Yes I know. Those were the days. I still have a 'Boro supporters room' enamel with the old 'ships' badge somewhere. But it was not used on the shirts anyway.
Up the Boro!
John
I'm not sure that Chris R - veteran bluesman that he is - would welcome your description of his music! It certainly doesn't fit the rock out coda to the song, anyway, that would be the bit that could get used. I'm pretty sure that Chris could be persuaded to re-record it in a different version for Boro, if asked.
But, I accept that all of this is just an exploration of fogey-dom and, as I said, I'd actually prefer something new and fresh as the walk-out anthem that signifies better times on the way and that also stands a chance of engaging the newer generations of those with Mad Boro Disease (including some of the local Academy Grad Lads in the team of the Twitter generation) as well as those of us who passed the genetic trait on to them!
Mr Vickers,
I must take exception to your conclusion of "Arca will consider big pay cut to stay at Boro" piece.
Why are you writing about Sunderland? I don't care and I am sure nobody cares!! Is it due to Gibson telling you that Stockton is a town full of Mackems? Is it because Arca used to play for them and you thought you would get to your hundred words by writing about Sunderland?
Put a Gazette poll up - Do Boro fans want to know about Sunderland team news - Yes or No?
**AV writes: Nothing to do with me, guv, honest. It has fallen a few centimetres short and someone has padded it out with a little bit of other football for our Mackem edition. I think those south of Stokesley get a Leeds preview.
AV
I note with interest the section on The Mackems in your piece about Arca in today's Gazette. Is this for your Stockton readership?!
I know Thursday's has become, traditionally, the Gazette day for articles that concern teams other than Boro - especially where they are in The Prem and have ex-Boro players. And I've been ticked off before for commenting about that because, apparently, there's an audience for it.
But The Mackems? On the Boro FC pages? Really?
Agree with the Chris Rea song as long as its not road to hell.
Looking forward to Saturday's visit of QPR, gives me real optimisim.
The League Tables look like its going to be a one way affair but careful analysis of the recent Form Table reveals a different and more balanced picture.
QPR are 4th with 12 points unsurprisingly whilst we are 9th with 10 points, level with Leeds, ahead of Norwich and just a point behind Forest and Cardiff.
Our Home advantage should be a benefit (not forgetting the Power Game of course!) but the real tale is in the goals scored column, they have scored just seven in six games versus our 13. Conversely they have only let in two versus our eight but if we can continue to bang the goals in (although they don't look like they ship many in fairness) they certainly aren't prolific in scoring them either meaning that we may have more opportunity to unleash Mac and Bennett.
I have a feeling that our form table position will improve again after Saturday considering that the majority (six) of our eight goals were shipped during the post Wheater/Bates era and if Davo continues to steady the ship then we could be in for an interesting and entertaining not to mention uplifting afternoon...........
Lets Dance!
I am pretty sure someone around the lower divisions already use Fanfare for the Common Man - certain I have heard it on the Footbal league show as players took the field somewhere.
As for Paul Rodgers song - wel the eponymous "Bad Company" might be more appropriate.
Shame Knopfler is a Geordie as Dire Straits certainly sums us up.
As for Pigbag - good riddance. Has there ever been a more moronic sound than a ground full of people singing a scat vocal to a tune without words?
But if I rememebr rightly Power Game was dropped when it became impossible to find anywhere in the world a playable copy.
Nowadays of course we can recreate any former tune digitally - some things are best left in the dustbin though.
OK - I thought you'd gone all Mackem on us!!
It's amazing the power of football though, reading about Sunderland put me in a proper bad mood, starting to simmer now after reading your response.
Please tell 'someone' just to leave it blank - I don't want to read about Sunderland or Leeds. Get them to put a *onthisboroday in just make sure they get the date right....
Away from football - Fantastic news regarding the Steel deal for Teesside!
**AV writes: The problem is that pages are laid out in advance and are done in frames and boxes. If something fall short there isn't really the time to redraw the page. We quite often put a 'blob par' of the same sport on the end of a story to fill the box.
The shabby oaf who made the snap selection is a outsider and doesn't have the heightened cultural sensitivites of we Teessiders. He has been disciplined.
What is more depressing than the Mackem story is the all too familar news from Crockcliffe.
Glass Knees is another six weeks off, Flood and Hoyte have had setbacks, McManus is some way off, Thommo is having another scan but at least the club have learned a lesson and this time will scan the leg that was broken, Robbo is back in training.
In recognition of the success of our state of the state medical facilties how about running out to 'Three wheels on my wagon' written by Bacharach and Hilliard.
Jiffy
I thought that about Caleb Folan.
Far be it from me to wander off topic, but The Reaâs were indeed big players in the Ice Cream scene in Middlesbrough. It was my family who were their main competition!
Allan in Bahrain, good to hear you are OK and the spreadsheet has turned green. Itâs far more advanced than mine.
My Smogonthetyne predictor © ⢠has us finishing only 7 points worse off than last year. On Wednesday it will have us getting relegated again!!
As for music at the ground, does it really matter? If we are saying Pigbag has had its day, then will we keep having to have this discussion every few seasons?
Keep to one song that if at all possible is unique and hard for away fans to B****dise. The Power Game already has resonance with the fans and club so keep it. Otherwise it becomes like a boxing match and there is more interest in the âentranceâ than the actual contest.
One thing though, goal celebration music is a big no-no. Why play it? Itâs the only time there is real noise in the ground and it stifles a good ole EIO EIO EIO.
And one the very rare occasion we are getting pumped 3-0 at home and we grab a late consolation it just sounds ridiculous.
No to Music. Yes to the old, Old Badge and to standing at games.
AV - pretty feeble excuse regarding Sunderland coverage in the piece - haven't your subs heard of the old tried and tested method for filling the space - ie bigger pics?!!
Must have the trainees on the job this week....
I was thinking of Lip up Fatty by Bad Manners, for the return of Mido, but he did a runner back to Egypt.
Can we change the words to Lip up Chubby for a certain Mr. Boyd?
RED ARMY.
Simon In the USA -
Maybe you really are in the USA after all!!
The new chant booming around Teesside is to the tune of Lip Up Fatty: "We got Tony, We got Tony,
Tony Mowbray, Mowbray
Tony, Tony Mowbray!!"
I didn't mind in the slightest being kept behind after the Millwall game, but then winning always puts me in much better spirits..
Sadly, due to financial, family and geographical reasons, that will probably be my last game for the season. Unless of course we make the play-offs..
Although Davies was at fault for both our goals conceded (well half a fault for the first one, the knock on was someone else's job to look after) the damage would have been far, far worse without him.
A slow turning circle may be his greatest weakness, courage his greatest asset. Is he the new Alan Kernaghan?
Anyway, No to The Power Game (tho' better than Pigbag) yes to All Right Now, No to Steel river. What about 'Here I Go Again' by Whitesnake, David Coverdale being another local born muso.
Yes to the old badge but not the old old badge.
Come On Boro
Arca on £30K a week. Just about sums it up really.
This piece of madness should be enough to have sealed the fate of the person who originally agreed to it.
Before everyone piles in to tell me how great his form has been of late...don't bother. I have seen him play against sub standard teams this season and he has still struggled. The less said about his premiership record and form the better.
**AV writes: The real madness is that when he signed, as a humble full-back from a lower league club and for a modest fee and before the built-in annual increases, he would have been at the lower end of the wage scale.
"As redcartim says, 'we are now in this division for the foreseable"
Rubbish, we will easily win the Championship next season and we will get more points than the jawdees got last season as well.
I am so confident about this that I will do a "Bernie" in Binns's window if I am wrong.
Its hardly Arca's fault if he has been the beneficiary of the excesses and fecklessness shown by the club's management in previous wage negotiations.In that respect good luck to him, but if as reported he is prepared to take a wage cut to stay and play for the Boro, all the more commendable.
He is certainly going against the grain of the modern footballer, that is, self serving and greedy.Mind you at a conservative estimate he will have earned at least three million pounds since he arrived in 2006.That begs the question how much money do you need when you already have this amount, to which the cynic would reply as much as you can get.
However if he is sincere and bucking the trend and wants to play for the club let us look at this seriously. Grove Hill Wallah seems to have a closed mind on Arca's abilities so no room for persuasion there.
Up to Zemamma's arrival he was the most skilful player at the club and has blossomed under Mowbray.He can be exasperating but he is creative and talented. Qualities which are rare in this league and not something we can dispose of lightly
Smogonthetyne now on the Moon said: "Simon In the USA -
Maybe you really are in the USA after all"!!
Come over here and say that! ;-)
At last. You are right my friend. I am 3500 miles away from the Riverside That's obvious after admitting that I have not heard the TM chant to the sound of Lip Up Fatty.
I miss my Boro, I do... I miss my Boro I do.... I miss my Boro I do - Oh Boro I miss you.
RED ARMY.
AV writes: The real madness is that when he (Arca) signed as a humble full-back from a lower league club and for a modest fee and before the built-in annual increases, he would have been at the lower end of the wage scale.
I couldnt agree more and it is no offence to our Land Crab because he is a good pro. When you consider that the brief was to get a younger, cheaper squad and then look at the money and Academy talent frittered away it beggars belief.
Arca, Aliadiere, Mido, Alves, Jason Euell, Dong Gook Lee, O'Neill, Tuncay, Huth, Digard, Emnes, Folan, King in. Morrison, Catermole, Graham, Craddock, Davies etc out. Not all the ins were bad nor the outs good.
After all that poor business we were then Stricken. Life certainly kicks you when you are down.
"Grove Hill wallah said...Arca on £30K a week. Just about sums it up really. This piece of madness should be enough to have sealed the fate of the person who originally agreed to it".
And which genius would that be then?
Arca is 30 years old now. He DOES have the ablility to see a pass, and occasionally execute it, so as to open up a defence as few others in our squad can (Zemmama, I hope will be better, but it's a little early to be categoric about such things).
I guess after 11 years in the region Arca almost counts as a local. He is, by all accounts, a nice young man who genuinely likes the area and its people.
On the other hand he is utterly one footed. He is slow, and turns into trouble in dangerous positions, and sometimes loses the ball in a way that puts the team under pressure. He has played quite well in a number of recent games.
But in a division where the average wage would be MUCH less (£4K a week, Vic?), someone on Arca's wages should stand out as a beacon of excellence in this league. Maybe like Ronaldo shone out a couple of years ago, or Drogba last year or Henri a few years ago in the Premier League.
That doesn't sound like a good way to spend £30K a week to me, even if we had more money than we do. I suppose that the time is coming when very few, if any, of our players will earn more in a week than most in the crowd earn a year. That would be fine by me.
They can still earn well - even £4K a week is double the average GP with all his training and responsibility, double the wages of a Judge, eight times a young (not new) teacher, more nurses than you could shake a stick at, etc.....more even than a journeyman journalist in a hypothetical second tier newspaper. Obviously not an award winning multi-media specialist journalist on the Evening Gazette, both of which would have to be described as top notch.
The probability is that Arca will be offered a new contract at maybe £8K a week to keep him at the end of his current one, which obviously couldn't be continued at £30K a week. A mere £416K per year rather than £1.56M.
That will mean he can look round for higher elsewhere. If footballers were bankers or hedge fund traders, they'd be called fat cats. And we are not talking about the best of the best here, not the top stars in the top teams who can point to the successes they have brought, just journeymen: players who can sometimes do a job in a team towards the bottom of the Championship.
Even if we went up, we surely wouldn't automatically raise everyone's pay by a factor of 5 or 10. Would we? I can't see those days returning to Teesside - not unless we had by that time been cemented in our "returned" Premier League place for many years, with a certainty we wouldn't be relegated anytime soon - like, say, a Spurs at the present time (but even they looked dodgy in our relegation year 2008/09).
How much is Charlie Adam being paid in the Premier League? Much less than £30K and more in line with £8K, I'd say. If I HAD £30K to spare, I know who I'd rather get for my money.
If OK players in cash-strapped clubs continue to receive Film Star wages, more clubs will go bankrupt, and no supporter wants that.
There is, of course, another alternative - we could increase the ticket prices at the Riverside to £100 per match and hope we could fill it with 35,000 every game (23 games, say £80m for the season). Then we could afford to employ a squad of 40 first team players on £30K a week (about £63m pa) and have a little left over to pay the management and coaching staff and youth set-up. Good idea, anyone?
**AV writes: The last figure I saw suggested the average annual wage in the Championship was £192k, which is a shade under £4,000 a week.
On the music front, personally I think whoever chose Pigbag did a good job. I agree that it' way past it's sell by date now but never the less, at the time the stadium rocked.
Give the guy another shot at chosing. Personally, if I want to be cheered up I listen to the Prodigy and before you go off on one, you'd be surprised how much Prodigy is played on the telly as background music, and no, I'm not suggesting "smack my bitch up" Andy.
**AV writes: I think was originally chosen by Viv Anderson. Give him a bell?
Let's imagine that Eric and Anthony do the same job. Eric is a bit slow on typing and his turning circle is massive. Anthony has come through the academy but are already an England U-21 international. But Eric is paid £20,000 a month and poor Anthony gets only £3900. And all because Eric came before the electronic time (remember them printing the Sports Gazette every Saturday afternoon, anyone?).
Must be very rewarding to work with a colleague who earns over four times more and works (no meaning Eric here) much fewer hours. Don't even run a blog during evenings, etc.
Very motivating policy for the younger chaps in the office! Up the Boro!
**AV writes: And he beats me with a stick. And makes me sleep with the goats. It's like the 17th century in there...
AV -
£4k a week is probably more than the entertainment in this league deserves. I have never really been a fan of Arca but can identify his qualities as a player.
I cannot identify with paying him £30k a week when we were in the PL. It just shows how desperate clubs are to stay in the PL when poor/average players like O'Neil/Mido/Hoyte etc are offered such large sums of money.
What is even more frustrating is that they are rewarded for non-performance, given more money and extended contracts for failing in their line of work. Its not just the Boro, other clubs are guilty of this too.
**AV writes: Football has the economics of the madhouse... clubs pay unsustainable wages for players (who may have been their 3rd of 4th choice) because they are scared they will otherwise go to Wigan or Birmingham. And all the while they are £50...£60...£70... £80m in debt. There are serious issues of morality and sanity there.
As for the £4k per week. That is the average and it will be pushed up by the likes of Boyd brought in on big money by teams with title ambitions and the over-paid failures in the teams that have just been relegated from the Prem. There will be plenty of teams (Scunthorpe, Millwall, Barnsley for example where that would be the top end of the pay scale.
I am convinced there will have been times this season when the entire opposing teams weekly wage was less than ONE of our players.... v Scunthorpe for instance. I can see their entire starting XI being on less than Boyd or O'Neil.
Simon in the USA said: Smogonthetyne now on the Moon said: "Simon In the USA -
Maybe you really are in the USA after all"!! Come over here and say that! ;-)
Simon that is a very generous offer, and in keeping with the spirit of blog, in light of Halifaxfpâs kind offer to Jarkko.
AV, please feel free to pass on my e-mail details, and in fact why not invite yourself along too. The beano is going stateside!!
Simon, me the wife, Smog Jnr and Juninhoena will be with you in June if that is Ok with you.
âEverything free in America,
Everything Free in AmericaâŠâŠâŠ.â
So QPR at the Riverside tomorrow. The League leaders. Typical Boro would often mean Boro turning on their best performance of the season tomorrow when the top of the elague come to town.
Mowbray's Gazette comments make them sound like world beaters. They are decidedly not that.They may have started the season with four wins and a draw from their first five away games but since then they have won just one in 10 (at Coventry) - hardly the record of worldbeaters is it?
Granted they have only lost twice in that run - at Leeds and Norwich - but even Boro can boast three away wins in that time.
So hard to beat yes but world beaters definitely not.
Time for Typical Boro methinks. Send them home pointless!
I don't think we need to bother ourselves too much about what's going to happen with Arca at the end of the season.
His recent statements are only him saying what it's usual to say in the circs when he's pretty sure that he's not going to be offered a contract that's anywhere near what he could be offered from any of the alleged Prem or foreign suitors - daft though they may be to offer it, that's not our problem.
If he is made an offer that's in line with the rest of the Boro squad and whatever league we're in and accepts it, then fine. If he knocks it back and goes, that's fine too. His presence or otherwise is no defining factor for Boro in the future.
I'm more concerned with what he contributes for the rest of this season, starting tomorrow - if he's fit.
For the rest - well, what more do we need to have revealed about the money mismanagement at the top of MFC or the 'money bubble' that too much of the top end of professional football still lives in - whether they can afford it or not?
Everyone is saying £30k for Arca is expensive but he did not start on this wage and the tail end of the contract increase is to reward the player for continual service.
But £18k a week for Davies at Stoke and the guy never played a first team game in the Prem....now that is expensive.
InGabon said: Pick a Prodigy tune - great idea - my choice "Stand Up" off the latest album. Great title, great rift, Der de de der -sing along, then the pings and strings all the way to the break beat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71wRbLucnMk
If that don't lift your heart nothing will.
Depending on the score line you could also pick One Love, Break and Enter, Invaders Must Die, Omen, Everybody in the Place, No Good and even Take Me To Hospital. It's like they are Boro supporters!!
Did you get anyhere with SG/KL about coming out from behind the sofa?
Smogonthetyne now on the Moon said: "Simon that is a very generous offer, and in keeping with the spirit of blog, in light of Halifaxfpâs kind offer to Jarkko... "
You will certainly be welcome, once I find a vacation home in Florida. In fact, when I get it, I will be renting it out to friends at a very, very low rate. So come one, come all.
Hopefully I will buy one in the next few months.
In a capitalist system you are paid what some one is willing to pay .
Will you bleeding heart left wing Liberals move somewhere else,
People talk about the good old days,Yeh everyone was happy then BECAUSE nobody had anything,and dont be putting up new curtains. Mrs Jones "hey Mable what does that Mrs Smith think shes doing with them new curtains ,must be on the tick, well I never"
The Power Game was the tune to which we clocked up record points to win the old Second Division championship in 1974. (If it had been 3 points for a win, it would have been 98, from 42 games).
It was the tune when Teesside was an industrial powerhouse. Although we didn't win a trophy (except the ever-embarrassing Anglo-Scottish Cup) the 1970s was a decade of excitement and success.
Pigbag, like the music that greets our goals, is part of the orchestration of support, taking the game away from us, treating us like clap-fodder.
The Power Game is ours. It comes from a time when fans knew dozens of witty or inspiring songs - remember 'The Runaway Train' - 'They call us Ayresome Angels (Quite Rightly', 'Who's that knocking on the window?' etc etc - instead of the two or three dreary chants we hear now.
It comes from a time when you could stand up, before all-seater stadiums were imposed on us, making it much harder to generate an atmosphere. A time when the difference between the budget of a middle-sized club like ours and that of Man U or Chelsea was massively smaller than it is now.
Oh, and the other reason the Power Game is better than Pigbag is that the Power Game isn't crap.
But, gt at 4.03pm -
if in this system clubs continue to pay what they have been paying in the recent past, many of them will go out of business. You can't pay what you don't have.
Does anyone think the banks (which have been very lenient in decades past if a club looks to be in dodgy financial circumstances) can continue to ingore the realities of financial life? In these difficult financial times? I don't think so.
There will be bankruptcies or liquidations in the future, and the worry has to be whether when one goes, it will start a domino reaction amongst others.
Go to bed, you lot! You'll be needed, loud in voice and full of enthusiasm, for Saturday's home game against QPR.
I was thinking of 1-1. But I have this unaccountable optimistic, glass half-full feeling. It's getting to me....
Go on, then! I'll give in to the optimism. 2-1 to us......
I hope it's a good day on the Virtual BJ Stand. Might take a sneaky look later because, of course, I'll be Down By The Riverside, Down By The Riverside, Down By The Riverrrrrssssiiiiiide.
I've just read a piece about Bradfords game against Scunthorpe today from Bradfords local rag and it just goes to show how easy it is to fall down the slippery slope. If you're interested:
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/8876788.It_s_crunch_time_in_Bradford_City_survival_fight/?ref=rss
InGabon -
Good article about Bradford City. Lets hope we are not in their position in another 11 years. I have faith that we won't be. I really believe that TM will eventually get us back to the Premier League, but it may take a couple of years because of the money situation.
I wish the board would be honest and come out and tell the fans the truth about the financial position the club are in. I think the fans would appreciate that and get behind them, even if the news is bad.
RED ARMY
High time Pigbag was thrown into the rubbish bin of history. It shouldn't be played at the Riverside at all. The song has nothing to do with the club nor does it have any connection the area and therefore doesn't resonate with the fans.
If we have a song playing when the team run out it should be a song by someone from the area. Something like Steel River by Chris Rea. It doesn't have to be thumping dance anthum. Just something that the fans can connect with.
Look at the anthems of other clubs ''you'll never walk alone'' for example. The song has to say and represent something. Pig bag says nothing except ''this is a club with no sense of local pride or history that has just picked any random currently popular song.''
It was used by several other clubs as well as ours and that alone was a good enough reason for not using it.
Having music playing when we score is a terrible idea. It destroys the atmosphere and kills off any spontaneous celebrations or the singing of any boro songs by drowning them out. It's very much something done by small clubs. You don't see Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal playing some naff pop song when their team scores.
It's naff and tacky and if we want to become a bigger club we need to ditch that sort of small club mentaliity.
I also totally agree with the comments about Mark Page. I've got nothing against the guy but it is frankly unpleasant to have an incredibly loud tinny voice constantly blasting out of every speaker before kick off and at half time.
It makes it difficult to talk to the people around you because no'one can hear what anyone is saying to them, or themselves think, and it generally detracts from the atmosphere. It's impossible to understand most of what he is saying anyway and what i can understand seems to be uneccessary drivel.
I'm sure he could easily cut out 90% of his incessant droning. Just because he has a 45 minute period of time before the match kick off this does not mean that he should talk constantly. Indeed i would suggest that his employers positively discourage from doing so.
Someone needs to be keeping a check on what this man is saying, how long he is talking for, whether there is any valuable content and how the paying customers feel about it because the punters are trapped and have no choice but to listen.
There is nowhere you can go to escape it. Wherever you are you can hear this man's incessant high volume monologue. As you turn round to talk to your mate about the tactics mogga might use in the game you find your voice drowned out by what sounds like a dalek with a Teesside accent speaking through a microphone that is amped up to a fifty foot high marshall stack imparting the vital information that Hannah from Ingleby Barwick had her 9th birthday yesterday.
I know we have to have an announcer (or an mc as he is probably now called) but perhaps he could play a bit more music and talk a bit less and most importantly off all HAVE HIS VOLUME REDUCED! PLEASE PLEASE TURN HIM DOWN A BIT!
It's costing me a fortune in Anadin every matchday! Remember we can't get away from it and sometimes we actually like to talk to each other! Who knows? We might even like to go wild and sing a Boro song before kick off! THERE'S NO POINT AT THE MOMENT COS NO'ONE WILL HEAR US SINGING!
So tone it down a bit Pagey, please. Jjimmy Page in Led Zeppelin made less of a racket than you mate!
I dont like Pigbag so im glad its gone
Im not that fussed on the Power game, I'd rather have ARCHIES STEPHENS BIRTHDAY PARTY or the Music FMTTM did for Moggas Mission to the Moon.
But what i want to say is The Power game was played at Ayresome Park, so the last time it was played v Luton in 1995 (16 years ago) so all the 16 year old kids and below will not know what the song is about and any one probably 50 above wont give a hoot what is played as long as we win.
It the younger ones im thinking off their the future they're the pride (where have i heard that before). What do there want playing.
**AV writes: "Tony Monkey?"