The Shape Of Things To Come?
HAS GORDON Strachan found his most effective formation by accident?
The boss may well be ideologically wedded to a tried and tested 4-4-2 - many in British football are, managers, players and fans - but his patched up side lined up with a fluid new shape at Chesterfield that ticked a lot of tactical boxes and suited the personnel at his disposal.
Boro played with a flexible system that was a 4-3-3 when they were going forward (or if you want to be pedantic a 4-3-2-1 but why complicate things by adding another layer) and a 4-5-1 when they dropped back.
The shape's main innovation is the use of two players behind the striker who operate down the inside forward channels and down the flanks. It requires a lot of energy and versatility because not only do they need to bomb forward to act as attackers but they are also required to drop back far deeper than a conventional forward to play as wide midfielders when the opposition have the ball
Schoolboy sensation Luke Williams played the demanding wide role on the left and Scott McDonald on the right.The industrious pair got forward quickly when Boro had the ball and drifted wide to give options for a quick pass from deep and to offer support to Leroy Lita who was the spearhead of the system.
A solid midfield three gave the duo a platform to break forward quickly and operate in the space between Chesterfield's midfield and defence and link up with either Lita or one of the Boro engine room who moved forward, on the night invariably Julio Arca - a boo-boy favourite who was very effective going forward.
The wide pair dropped back when Chesterfield had the ball, effectively blocking the gap where the opposition full-backs would have pushed up to join an attack and also giving Boro extra bodies in that crucial area of the pitch. That would have been handy on Saturday when Ipswich swamped the midfield and found acres on the flanks.
Of course, a flexible 4-3-3 is hardly an innovation. It isn't a tactical Eureka moment. The shape in various incarnation has been en vogue at the top for years now after creeping under the radar from that hotbed of sedition, abroad.
Big boys Chelsea and Manchester United are among the most effective proponents of its attacking versions in the Premier League and in the Champions League but a host of other sides in the top flight use more conservative variations. It is fast becoming the shape of choice for shrewd managers, so much so that the pundits have been queuing up to write obituaries for the antiquated old 4-4-2 so beloved in England.
Of course it is easier to make it work when the fulcrum, your one up front, is Drogba.
With the best will in the world Leroy Lita isn't Drogba, but he gave it a good go.
The much maligned marksman put in a good shift in the difficult lone role working the line tirelessly while always being available to break onto a quick ball forward, even if he didn't always reach it. He had probably his best game in a Boro shirt, can claim two assists with neat touches and in a break with his own default setting he even passed the ball in the box a few times although his critics - and he has a few - may point out that he missed a great chance of his own and lashed it against the keeper's legs.
Meanwhile, with the extra men - McDoanld and Williams - dropping back when the opposition had the ball, the midfield had a more solid look to it. It left no obvious gap for Chesterfield to advance through and forced them to go long and for much of the first half David Wheater was on hand to easily deal with direct balls.
The extra body also meant Boro always had a man over to close down, harry and tackle, a situation that suited the rehabilitated Josh Walker and Nick Bailey but it also meant they always had a man available to play a short ball to when under pressure. It gave extra time and space to look up, think and build and pick out a pass. In particular, it allowed Julio Arca precious thinking time to play a creative pass and relieved of the fear of being dispossessed, get forward to join the attack.
In the second half Chesterfield reacted to the shape and matched up Boro and played five in the middle themselves, adding width to try to peg back Boro's wing forwards and it worked and so our heroes were on the back foot for long spells. Chesterfield also started to put pressure on Boro's weakest areas - the full backs - and started to get the ball quickly down the flanks and run at Justin Hoyte and particularly Joe Bennett with the youngster having a torrid time.
Eventually Strachan made a change and switched the more robust Grounds to left-back and put rusty but reliable Seb Hines into central defence, a move that helped put a brake on the barrage from that flank.
Yes, there were some rocky moments at times but Boro's fledgling formation offered some food for thought, as a satisfied Strachan admitted.
His hand had been forced. With five first teamers on international duty in ill-timed friendlies and with eight more squad men injured he was left rummaging down the back of the settee at Hurworth. That was where he found forgotten man Josh Walker. The industrious midfielder will have earned himself brownie points with a decent display. He worked, he closed down, he tackled and he covered a lot of ground in midfield and raising questions as to exactly why he hasn't been given a chance and what has he done to find himself on the naughty step?
Strachan was even forced to recall abandoned project Marvin Emnes, who had not been categorically told he was not part of the bosses' plans just last week and wasn't even given a squad number. The Dutchman was on a sparsely populated bench of just five.
But although it was a tactical innovation forced on him by circumstance, the gaffer conceded that it was an option well worth thinking about, especially now when a lack of pace and natural width makes our standard 4-4-2 ponderous and one-dimensional.
It would be nice to see the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system deployed with first choice personnel, even if it means dropping or rotating some of the players expected to be a shoo-in.
A midfield three of Barry Robson, Kevin Thomson and Gary O'Neil would be interesting. That trio with Bailey - who two games in is yet to capture the imagination - plus Arca and one more pacy and creative midfielder would be quite a potent group to pick from.
It would also be interesting to see a front three of Lita and McDonald playing wide supporting Kris Boyd at the tip. We had been told by the Scottish press that Boyd was a lazy box dweller who didn't break sweat but against Ipswich he was dropping deep and chasing back and showed he can something different.
McDonald looks fully fit after being hampered by niggling injuries last term and after a good pre-season he now looks the real deal: he has movement, work-rate and some nice touches and in recent games he has also had goals. At Chesterfield he showed he can be effective in a wider, deeper role too and so he offers another option.
Of course, it would have been nice to have seen these things tried out in pre-season out of choice rather than in combat out of necessity. But having taken the first step into the tactical unknown why stop there? Why not deploy that system - or other systems - by choice if the circumstances are right?
There is a restrictive mentality in English football that insists players can only play in one position, teams in one shape and any deviation introduces uncertainty and error.
But good players should be flexible and able to adapt to any system within reason.
We have so often seen opposition teams hurt Boro by marked changes in shape that we take an age to react to. That will need to change if we are to go up. We have found in recent years that we are vulnerable to teams playing five across the middle while we beaver away with 4-4-2 for too long and lose momentum... or goals.
Why not develop a range of tactical options and become comfortable with different shapes and systems? And get players used to switching during games? There will be times we need to. Why not embrace it and make it an effective part of our armoury?
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Good Read AV - Will you be putting these points and questions to GS2?
Spot on AV,
Big plusses last night, Jason Steele may well be the answer to the GK Question in a couple of years time at least. Scott McDonald, looks fit and dangerous, and Leroy Lita looks like a player, where was he hiding last year?
Admittedly it was only league two opposition but the discipline was there from our lads which isnâÂÂt always evident (Leroy).
And a quick mention for the fans. Great travelling support and came across loud on the radio too.
Come on Boro.
Watched the game on telly and generally enjoyed it, particularly the first half performance against a good (albeit 2nd division) side, although for a period in the second half I thought we were going to throw it away.
As it was first time I've had the opportunity to see the team for sometime it was a shame so many players were away on international friendly duty. Some good performances I thought, particularly from Wheater( coming back to his best), Josh Walker (where's he been?)young Williams and the burgeoning Steele in goal.
I also felt that generally, Lita led the line well. However, for me, the outstanding player on show was Scott McDonald who I thought showed genuine class and looks really fired up for the season. Less impressed with Grounds, Bennett and Hoyte and in the case of the latter, I can see why so many don't seem to rate him. Good result though, when it might easily have gone so wrong.
.."Why not develop a range of tactical options and become comfortable with different shapes and systems? And get players used to switching during games?"
You mean like 99% of teams already do AV?
What about the 4-2-3-1 that seems to be en vogue at the moment?
Bates Wheater McManus Bennett
Bailey Thomson
McDonald Robson Lita
Boyd
**AV writes: You need really good full-backs to make that work properly.
AV - can't wait to see those new boys, Harry and Tackle, in action. Is the latter european?
Total football at the Boro, you must be joking. I cast my vote now that we have an orange away kit next season.
On a cynical note I hope we get drawn against Premier opposition in the Carling Cup, I would preffer to get it done with sooner rather than later so we can get back to focussing on our one and only goal this season; automatic promotion.
But It was nice to see a result last night though I couldnt believe my eyes when I saw Arca on the scoresheet
You always have to take the quality of oppostion into account but I agree that the 433 worked well. We looked like a cohesive team going forwards and defending for most of the match.
If we're to go with this formation however, I would only consider Lita as the lone front-man. He played better last night but Boyd will obviously come in and as AV hinted you need hard-working, disciplined and astute players in the wide roles in a 433. I'm not sure I trust Leroy to work hard up and down the lines.
Personally I'd rather see Bailey / Kink in the wide left slot or even Luke Williams who worked his socks off last night without quite having the quality on the ball when it mattered. He's coming on nicely though and his attitude is spot on. Once he's fit I think Franks will be ideal in the wide-right position of a 433.
Other than that, I thought Steele did well and Arca also showed what he can do when he's got time and space. Shame there's not much of either in Championship midfield battles.
I wouldnt say the 4-3-2-1 formation is an innovation.
Robson played that way with fjortoft and the midget gems of higgy and barmby behind him to great affect
Although the opposition were who they were, what I did like about what we did many times in the game was we played the ball into dangerous areas early, through the middle on the floor ,and the strikers didnt dwell too long on the ball.
They actually attempted to suck the defence in and played quick one twos, the team also kept the ball moving as much as they could..... .nothing to go over board about but at least they did put a little smile on the face today.
I know Gordon likes honesty and graft....but some players just need a chance and a pat on the back now an again,a scared player is no good to anyone
gt said: "I know Gordon likes honesty and graft....but some players just need a chance and a pat on the back now an again,a scared player is no good to anyone."
Emnes? I wonder if there is a language problem with overseas players. At least I have one with GS2.
Thought I'd copy and paste a post I made on FMTTM this morning to a similar discussion:
Width is needed to stretch defences out, so you can pick out killer through balls through the middle. The question is WHERE is the best place for the width. Some teams play three forwards and have their width there...some have fast wide midfielders...the 4-2-3-1 formation used by Spain, Brazil and the Netherlands in the World Cup relied on wide defenders bombing forwards.
There is no magic formation, no magic formula. We seem to lack pace in midfield, so it would seem sensible to employ our width up front...I don't see Hoyte / Grounds as Sergio Ramos / Luciano types.
The main difference between last night's display and on Saturday was we passed the ball better. Irrespective of which formation we use if you cannot pass efficiently and accurately you are in trouble.
Our passing was crisp, short and to feet.There was good movement off the ball too. Williams made one stray pass all night which for a young lad is exceptional.We were fluid and had a good tempo.
Things became sticky after Grounds fouled Lester which stirred up the crowd and the team. Somehow we survived but the tendency to drop off and defend the 18 yard line is beciming a hard habit to lose.
Stephen -
Not trying to be TOO pedantic but Robbo played five at the back (5-2-2-1) which was different altogether. Invariably it was:
Cox - Whyte - Pearson - Vickers* - Morris
Pollock - Mustoe
Higgy - Barmby
Jan Aage
...and it relied on being solid at the back (at least three of that five sat deep all the time) and the industry of Pollock and Mustoe and Higgy and Barmby. Really it was 5-4-1.
Anyway, I like the idea of us going 4-3-3.
* Now quite a good columnist
**AV writes: Ah yes, our Steve. He's a better writer than me. (Insert own joke here)
Denis
I think one of the reasons our passing was better was that we had the extra man in midfield, so I do think the formation aided the performance. The other reason was that Chesterfield didn't really press us enough, that probably won't happen on Saturday.
I hope Strachan has a serious look at going 433 because I think we've got a little bit of quality in the squad, despite the weekend doom-mongers protests, and with better control of the game that quality has more chance to flourish.
AV does not even give the excellent Steele a mention, which is a shame as he was the most accurate ball distributor on the park. Unlike Wheater with his intelligent lumps forward to small forwardsor mostly their keeper Is he as thick as he looks?
**AV writes: Fair point, he was indeed excellent and his throw out for the first goal was very perceptive, although the piece was more about systems than individuals. I've done an interview with Steele for tomorrow's paper in which he says nice things about the fans, the other keepers and his hopes for the future.
Stephen - that's right - at the time I think they called it the xmas tree formation.
Thought last nights game went really well. Guys who are not normally involved got a great oppertunity to shine and quite a few did.
Shame Leroy just cannot get his head down for a full 90 with out throwing his arms into the air in full disappointment at a misplaced passed or "unjust" ref decision. Having said that he did work hard, great pass for Scotty Mac, should have done better one on one with the keeper at the end. He looks different...a leaner face, could be the pre season work out?
AV: Kammy, mid game, made a passing reference Midough's contract had been cancelled by the club and we've gone our seperate ways. I am guessing this is not the case? Also if he claims to have been officially signed by Ajax (Evening Post quote) can't the club hammer him for breach of contract?
Is Walker likely to be kept around on last nights performance or he is still likely to be offered a free out of the club?
What news at the Smithy? Bellows blowing hard to cast off the unwanted slag before more steel is brought in?
**AV writes: Mido is claiming a deal is done but the club were saying not yet the last I heard. He was certainly flying to Amsterdam yesterday but we've been here before. Unless he personally is willing and able to accept that both clubs need to make the numbers add up it will unravel again. If he wants to go he can but he can't demand that both clubs pay him exactly what he wants. He needs to bend.
Got back from my hols in time to carch the match on telly, I thought Steele looked confident and his ball handling was sound which was re-assuring. Good game albeit against limited opposition, in the context of the nights results where seven Championship sides lost to lower league teams its probably a better result than we dare say.
I enjoyed watching the passing and movement, the irony struck me that the passing and movement was probably akin to what Southgate aspired to with his Arsenal lite approach. It just goes to show that tough characters can pass as well as lightweights can.........
Seperately, Liverpool's interest in Jones is good news surely?
Steele looked the part, but perhaps a little too much. You could tell he was focusing a lot on doing things by the book; doing them well, but like he'd just passed his test, if you see what I mean.
Aside from Hoyte's glacial decisiveness, it was a good game, easy on the eye -- and that goes for Chesterfield somewhat, too. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the formation, but I'm definitely up for more of the same. It's always served me well on PES =P
Good stuff, agree with most of it, we certainly seem to have the players to play this sort of formation rather than force what we have into a 4-4-2. Our one out-and-out winger, Kink, would presumably slot into the left-hand side attacking position quite nicely.
Will be interesting to see what the team is on Sat now, GS2 has a few dilemmas. I'd certainly be tempted to keep Steele in goal if Brad is indeed off. Arca probably deserves a starting spot now, and it looks like GON could be back. I feel a lot better now after the gut-wrenching defeat on Saturday.
Finally, I notice Smallwood was on the bench last night, he seems to have dropped off the radar a bit, I'm sure he was tipped for great things a couple of years ago but has never really made the breakthrough.
On young Steele, I think the article in today's Gazette is a pretty good summary of my views too, so I won't repeat them. What I would say is that I think it would be a win win for everybody if Jones does go.
I also think that Steele confirming his potential means that the deliberate plan now should be to make him No. 2 to whoever comes in and to give him the Cup games in both comptetitions at least as part of his development process.
Speroni would be a great signing but, if he can't be got, I've suggested before that if Steele is the medium term answer then a year long loaner for an experienced keeper is another good option.
I agree with you on the benefits of having some flexibility of formatiom, AV - however reluctant a convert Strachan is.
I fear, however, that those of us at Leicester on Saturday will see a return to 4-4-2 with a flat middle four (not even a diamond) - whether or not we have the width and pace on the flanks to play that system. And we don't, currently.
Views on last night's match:
I liked Arca's performance, if only because he was thankfully not his usual useless self. Although we all have to remember that this was the same Arca who we were singing the praises of from when he moved into the centre of midfield for the first time in '06 to Dwight Yorke's cynical hack on him in Sep '07. No coincidence he's never been the same player since. Maybe we should take this into account before referring to him constantly as the "Land Crab", for last night showed he's still got it.
Also worth mentioning? Bailey, McDonald, Hoyte (surprisingly, although his crosses could have been better) and Luke Williams. Proof that Strach is willing to still give youth a chance. If we get a good draw in the second round maybe L. Williams, Halliday and Kink may really get a chance to shine.
As much as I enjoyed Steele's performance, though, I have my doubts. Danny Coyne was just as confident and assured when he got his first Boro start; fans will be no doubt clamouring for Steele to start on Saturday, but will he be so keen to impress when he no longer has a point to prove to Strach?
Then there was Lita - yes, he worked harder than he usually does, but he can and should be sharper with his finishing.
Most noteworthy though; McBoro had gone! Not one Scot to be found in this starting line-up. I am all for repeating this formation on Saturday, but how will our first-teamers fit into it? My guess is:
Steele/Coyne - Hoyte, McManus, Wheats, Bennett - Robson, Thomson, Bailey - McDonald - Boyd, Lita. Subs: Steele/Coyne, Grounds, Bates, Arca, L. Williams, Miller, Kink.
Yes, Vic, I know the full-backs need to be of a higher standard for this formation to really succeed, but then we would need a right-sided midfielder - and a left-winger - to get the most from a 4-4-2. Otherwise we run the risk of returning to, as John Powls has rightly put it, a 4-4-2 with a flat middle four.
I would definitely place McDonald behind the front two also - I've been particularly impressed by his hold-up skills, tracking back and willingness to have a go from distance. His early injury made me fear he might be the new Malcolm Christie, but 5 goals in his last 8 starts is a fine record.
The question is now; does Strach have it in him to retain the Chesterfield formation and implement it properly, to our advantage, or will he return to his old, flat formation and hope it somehow works in the end?
For the sake of the spirited and sometimes excellent passing football I saw from Boro yesterday, I certainly hope not.
Numerical formations, per se, are NOT going to make Boro a better football team.
I feel it's more than reasonable to challenge what seems to have become the conventional "wisdom" of "Formation Speak" - though I doubt that any change in attitudes towards it is going to happen too soon!
However, a football game/match is about movement.
Personally, I think far too much emphasis is placed on static, numerical "systems" and "formations". Even if they ARE only descriptors for some starting position.
To think about formations, seems to me to imply an inappropriate rigidity, to ignore the fact that gameplay is hugely dynamic and that the disposition of players changes rapidly, albeit not randomly, throughout matches.
There ARE times for a more rigid approach and a disciplined (defensive) formation. But there are, equally, times for more expansive attacking self-expression.
It's the transitions between "game phases" (defending, holding, attacking) that need to be managed better - especially true of Boro teams of the past three or four years. The teams who DO this better, tend to do better overall. On Saturday, Ipswich did it better than us despite, on paper at least (I think), being man-for-man, no better footballers than Boro's. These transitions are through movement of individual players relative to each other and the opposition. MOVEMENT - not static positioning as implied in numerical formation description.
I'm sceptical when a numerical formation or an alternative is quoted as though they were some kind of panacea, without consideration of the dynamics of movement and transition, especially when you have to acknowledge that in real-time, the opposition are also shifting and shaping dynamically during matches. (I acknowledge that some people sometimes attempt to explain their formation rationale, but without contextualising that rationale in terms of "game phase", i.e. defending/ holding/ attacking, number formations are meaningless)
Scoring chances are created, entertainment is generated, games are won by dynamic transitions, NOT by static, number formations.
What is happening on the field is continuously changing. Players pull and are pulled in all different directions and hanging too much importance on a singular and static line-up descriptor doesn't accurately reflect what's happening. At best, it's only a first level analytical tool or "resting position" and at worst, is a misleading camouflage for other shortcomings.
It's simply too easy to say this or that "formation" (or "system" - which they are NOT, by the way) - is the way forward.
10-1 and 1-10 - kids in the park = footy at its best :)
Both Steele and Williams were excellent. Arca also looked full of running and very positive. I was also impressed with Bailey.
Passing was generally excellent too, until they scored a very good goal.
A great choice of game by Sky. I think all neutrals would have enjoyed the game.
The team gave a very good account of themselves and I was proud of the performance with so many 1st choice players missing.
Richard -
You're wrong. tactics are everything and have been in the modern game for 30 years or more now. Teams buy player to fit the system they play, not jiggle it about to suit their best players. You don't just pick the best 11 footballers and tell them; "go out there and be dynamic". This dynamic expansive individual play you talk about only exists in dreams and five a side games. Now it is all about system.
How many times have we moaned that we had the personnel but they weren't organised properly? Or that weaker opposition did "something" we couldn't deal with? Or we were over-run in midfield? Or couldn't find space for a cross? Or couldn't cope with a route one team? No matter what individuals in our team?
How often have teams been improved by dropping/selling their best individuals? Or mnade worse by adding a "better" player? How often have good coaches transformed team with a few changes in shape and tempo? Just because we English are tactical ignorant and dismiss it all as mumbo-jumbo and just demand more commitment and more direct balls doesn't mean there is nothing in it.
5,000 Spanish Uefa Pro_licence coaches can't be wrong.
I agree that a lot of teh technical talk about different systems is bewildering now and I blame the youngsters all playing Championship Manager but it is not a bad thing they know about shapes and formations and can understand the way different types of team work.
If Jones HAS gone - as reported down here about an hour ago, this is the finest piece of business KL has ever done. I doubted we would give him away, let alone sell him!However it does not undo the terrible deals KL has overseen.
Nevertheless, as long as we find a suitable replacement in the next week or so, the GK prob is solved. No doubt Steele will make it - but probably too soon to put him down for 40 league games this season!!
Enough on Tuesday to like, especially the 433, and we have the men to make it fluid, why not give it a go....
AV any news at the forge about incomings especially full backs and wide men, and what is happening with midough, I'm sure I heard in commentary they said he had gone..
No injuries last night so here's for a good win on Saturday
C'mon Boro
The Brad Jones thing reminds of back in the late Seventies, Boro sold all the best players and started to plummet towards where we ended up in 1986. The reason I bring this up, the fans started to get on Jim Platt's back, although he was top notch, not brilliant but solid you could for the most part rely on him to keep you in the game.
S we went out and bought a Scottish International goalie forã110,000 quid. I saw his first game,I believe it was against Ipswich at home,(cant remember the score ,I think we lost),he was briliant,thought we had Lev Yashin.
But after that actual game I could have sworn Mr Mcgoo had better eyes. We might have been better playing with 10 men,come to think of it we did. Ive never seen anything like it,the poor guy couldnt save a beachball on Redcar beach.If the other team had a corner,we put 5 guys on the line.
My point is, don't get carried away with one game for any player,and all you Brad haters, dont compare his tenure with,the guy before him and the defence they both played played behind
Neil M: You've misinterpreted my post. Tactics are of fundamental importance - I agree. My assertion is that numerical formations are only a starting point and are inadequate for describing what is REALLY important - movement and transitioning between defensive play and attack (and vice versa). Sorry if that wasn't clear.
I think the key point about our Carling cup victory is that we were playing a League 2 side - let's face it if the players in our squad can't perform against teams at that level then they shouldn't be in our squad.
Though let's not take anything away from a job well done - many other championship teams did not do so well - plus it won't harm the players confidence to get a win under their belts.
As for the 4-3-3 formation - it may suit us quite well as our midfield with 4-4-2 looks a bit on the defensive side and not so creative unless we buy before the window closes.
I also agree that if players play well then they should get the credit they deserve (e.g. Arca or Jones) - afterall they don't pick themselves so why should they be booed simply for playing? If they are picked and try their best then there's not much more they can do - if they shouldn't be picked then that's the managers fault.
To win Promotion we obviously have to achieve more points than we did last season. So with more floors in it than a sky scraper, I can exclusively reveal the Smogonthetyne promotion predictor.
Current prediction = probably not.
Whilst some people will look into form, tactics, players and other mumbo jumbo, my predictor works solely off last years results. So after SaturdayâÂÂs defeat against a team we beat at home last year my predictions have us getting 3points less than last year. Of course the trip to Leicester where we lost last year, offers the perfect opportunity to regain the status quo and a win will have the predictor churning out an 11th placed finish.
Key marginalâÂÂs to look out for where a positive swing could mean promotion
Away
Leicester
Other East Midland club
Cardiff
Sheff Utd
Barnsley
Home
Promoted team 2 Leeds in place of Plymouth
Cardiff
Relegated team 3 Pompey in place of Blackpool
Relegated team 2 Hull in Place of WBA
Just for your records I will replace Newcastle with Burnley, WBA with Hull, Pompey with Blackpool, Norwich with Sheff Wed, Leeds with Plymouth and Millwall with Peterborough.
Having looked more in depth into the Smogonthetyne Predictor é ⢠our promotion credentials should be known quite soon.
Looking at our first 15 games this year, we only won 3 of the corresponding (i.e. the same opposition not first 15 games of last season) fixtures last year, and one of those was at home to Ipswich. If we are in the mix after 15 games I think it fair to say we have improved.
The 15 corresponding games last year yielded 16 points; we will have to be a lot closer to 30 points this year.
Happy number crunching.
Up the Boro
Has Whispering Steve Coppell quit Bristol City? That must beat his Man City record!
Steve Coppell left Palace in October 1996 to become manager of Manchester City, a job that he would quit after only six games and 33 days in charge. Now he worked at Bristol City only since 22 April 2010.
Glad he did not join Boro!
gt:
You couldn't have said it better. The Danny Coyne-fanboyism died down pretty quickly, and as I've said, when Steele is no longer hungry and fresh...
"Bad Brad" was still our most technically gifted 'keeper. Not that I was a massive fan of his, but this could come back to haunt us.
I fear his one crime was that he was no Schwarzer. But frankly, who was?
Richard
I doubt that anyone thinks that a change in formation is a panacea for a better team. We're not going to make our players better players or throw something up that the rest of the division has never seen before.
A change in formation CAN have an effect on our quality of passing and quantity of possession though, and possession can aid our control of the match, our opportunities to create and, by default, limit our opposition's creative opportunities.
Given that we currently lack a bit of natural width, it's instinctive that we're likely to try to play through the middle where our better players generally are. Given that we lack a bit of pace, it's likely that we won't have much success going quickly from back to front, and should be trying to play the ball through midfield. Having a numerical advantage in midfield (or at least matching the opposition) therefore seems like a good idea.
I do agree with you that movement and the transition between phases of play are key elements to attacking, but in my opinion, total football apart, these elements are wedded to the shape of your team.
Simon Fallaha
Where do you get that The Corporal was our most technically gifted 'keeper from?
I grant you, he may be marginally the best shot stopper - on his day.
But on crosses, decision making, bossing his box, organising his defence, positioning and distribution (whether from his hands or with his feet) he's not even near the best.
Whether or not it's a crime, the issue isn't that he's not Schwarzer - I had no problem with Skippy going to Fulham when he did, it was right for a player who had got stale with Boro - it's that he's not good enough.
Our problem was the 'crime' of not replacing Schwarz with a decent keeper when he went. Hopefully, we'll do that this time when 'Bad Brad' goes.
Speroni would do nicely.
Brad Jones in transfer battle!
Liverpool and Arsenal both want him now.
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/837873-brad-jones-transfer-battle-begins-between-liverpool-and-arsenal?
C'Mon Boro!
AV -
any news on if Chris Riggot has joined any one.
**AV writes: Someone at Chesterfield suggested he may have been training with Mansfield while he looks for a club.
Schwarzer leaving Boro was the right move, Jones leaving would also be the right move all round. He will be well aware of the doubts Boro fans have about him, which cant be a good feeling. No doubt liverpool will be offering him a big salary increase to sit on the bench and money talks.
Assuming we sell him for ã3 million that gives us a good amount to buy a good quality keeper. There is no doubt that we need a fresh face in goal and as good as Steele may be he is too fresh faced to become no.1 right now.
Interesting debate on formation and tactics, my observation is that Chesterfield were caught out by our 433 in the first half and by the time they adapted to it at half time it was too late and they were 2-0 down. However in the second half against the same formation they won the half 1-0 and gave us a game.
A good team primarily and above everything else needs good players, the tactics and formation are secondary.
Neil Bausor should get on to the marketing people at Wembley immediately. How they managed to attract 72,000 plus after the debacle in SA is totally beyond me.
I see Jeremie Alliadiere is having a trial at West Ham.
Can't understand all these comments about Steele being too young. There are loads of examples of keepers playing regular first team football at his age. I know it's a cliché, but if you're good enough, you're old enough. He looked good enough against Chesterfield.
gt -
I remember the new keeper that came in for Jim Platt, but since you stirred up the memories I have been racking my brains trying to remember his name. I know I could have done the google thing but I'm a bit old fashioned and try to let my brain do the work...but put me out of my misery, what was he called?
If I remember rightly, Platt worked his way back into the team and became number 1 again. At the time Jim Platt was my favourite player, I agree with your assessment of him. If he hadn't coincided with a certain Pat Jennings he would have had dozens of international caps for Northern Ireland. I met him once, thoroughly nice chap. Someone like him between the sticks this year would make a big difference.
If we can't have an iron girder in goal, a piece of Steele will do.
Whilst I'm on the subject of goalies, I've just read Mark Schwarzer's outrageous comments about his proposed move to Arsenal. Talk about player power. Absolutely no respect for the contract that he agreed (and signed) with Fulham.
One of the many quotes reads "I'm not sure whether I'll play [for Fulham] on the weekend. I've got a few little injury problems..". Oh I bet you do Mark!
He was like that at Boro too, every time one of the big boys came sniffing he'd be trying to engineer a move for himself. He's Australian, so I'll use their term...he's a big suck. Fulham are in a no win position now, if they force him to stay he'll just sulk his way through the season...we've seen what he's like when he's not really fussed and it's not a pretty picture.
He was a great keeper when he wanted to be...but in Boro terms I still rate him behind the aforementioned Jim Platt and Steve Pears, they were great keepers and they weren't spoilt brats. I hope the deal falls through, he doesn't deserve it.
Did you mean Jim Stewart? He started the season 1978/79 in goal but lost his place back to Jim Platt home to Villa on March 28 1979 (Middlesbrough - A complete record 1876-1989 by Harry Glasper). Platt was our nr. 1 for four or five season after that until O'Hanlon took over.
About Mark Schwarzer. I met him once while visiting Rockcliffe with my son on a Friday. He seemed very nice person. After the match next day on Saturday he even remembered us out side the stadium and asked how we liked the match. Great person I thought and great goalkeeper - and still is me thinks.
Up the Boro!
Bob -
The keeper you are thinking of was Jim Stewart.
I recall my first sight of him was at Elland Road having left Teesside for Leeds a year or so earlier. Boro led and looked comfortable through a goal from a young Mark Proctor until Stewart went up for a high ball in his own box.
In truth such challenges on the keeper were always deemed illegal at every other ground in the country but Elland Road but it was 1-1 shortly before halftime in agame that night have been called off for fog on another day. Mid second half the fog lifted and a pretty woeful Leeds then took control through Tony Currie (a genius when he wanted to be and was allowed to be) and we lost 3-1.
Afterwards I couldn't believe Stewart was prefered to Platt. I think the term frightened rabbit was invented for his second half display after the bruising he got earlier.
Was he not the Scotland keeper in a 5-1 drubbing by England a year or so earlier from which the theory that Scottish goalkeepers were a joke began?
A quick visit before I am off again.
I agree with all the comments about flexibilty of players and formations. The main thing is flexible thinking, the comment was made about England that they lacked football intelligence.
Emnes was schooled in 4-3-3/4-5-1 and has never fitted into our rigid 4-4-2.
The problem we have is lack of pace and attacking full backs so if you play a rigid 4-4-2 with midfielders on the 'wrong' side and therefore tucked in, you become very pedestrian and easily bypassed.
The problem is compounded with a right footed left back behind a right footed left midfield player. If you look at Ipswich's second goal, Bates was close to his centreback and Bailey in centre midield. Acres of space down our left flank for Edwards to run into and cross into the box.
Teams rarely play with two out and out strikers, think how often we hear talk of players dropping off into the hole.
The game is about movement and fluidity, the best teams generally have the best movement with players coming short, others running into the gaps created. The players are not always sprinters but they are clever in finding space created by movement and quick passing.
Better go and tidy my desk, back on Sunday.
Been absent without technology at the seaside in Fife. Missed the match, but my sister thought we looked good and that McDonald had a good game.
Have to chip in generally about formations though. First of all, this is a team game and players are brought in to fit in with the team. England won the world cup in 1966, not with the eleven best palayers, but with the 11 that Alf Ramsey picked to best combine and play his favoured 442 system.
Same in all of the best teams now. The players are brought in to fit with the preferred systems the coach/manager likes to play. But the best coaches don't rely on one system. They have the nous to change it around when required.
Within that, the better the players you have in the system, the better your system (or systems) will work. So, if the opposition (Chesterfield in this case) can come to terms and counter your 433, or 4321, then if they begin to dominate in that you need to adapt and offer something different to keep the initiative.
This is where the best managers/coaches demonstrate why they are the best, by being able to have your team prepared to play in any one of several formations to suit the demands of a game and to change tack, if necessary, at any point in a game.
Brad Jones joined the Boro from Australian amateur side Bayswater City in 2000. When is his testimonial game?
Or is he leaving before that? UTB!
The word on how Brad Jones has interested Liverpool is that Roy Hodgson has hired his medical and fitness team from Australia - they would know all about Brad and must have recommended him.
To be fair, once he got his confidence back last season he played well towards the backend. Also heard from the parents of an Australian trialist at the BOro (U17s I think) that the Boro was his favourite place due to the atmosphere and no small part played by Brad to tell him about the area, the club and the fact he was an all round top bloke. So, whatever happens - good luck to Brad.
Kelham O'Hanlon's debut was at home to (Big Jack's) Shef Wed. His first touch was to handle outside the area. A bit of a shame as for some reason we were on TV.
His Dad was my Primary school Headmaster. He was old school, 'throw the (wooden handled) blackboard duster at you for getting a question wrong' type.
Small world (in the Boro).
Alan Rough was the keeper who let in 5 against England at Wembley. I always remembered Pat Cuff being Platt's deputy?
On Wikipedia researching boro players past and present there is no mention of Willie Whigham.
Have you ever noticed how just hearing the first few bars of a song can bring your exact feelings back from when you heard it?
Well coming back from a wedding last Saturday night, Mrs Smog and I had a brief tet-a- tet about what music we should have played on the itod. I pointed out it was mine and I needed a lift after the days result. She pointed out she had actually bought it, she was driving, pregnant and fed up of looking at my fed up face!
So she had her choice of her tracks. This journey was one of the worst of my life. So for the rest of this season in a what doesnâÂÂt kill you makes you stronger kind of effort I will listen to one of the songs from that journey every time we get beat.
I will spare you the scissor sisters and Mika but for those who want to sample the depths a human can sink to (before Come dancing and X factor start)on a Saturday night try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17h-Yhz6Jt0
But as we won on Tuesday I hear you cry âÂÂwhat should we play?â Well there can be no finer choice thanâÂÅ .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU1stt0okdM
Leaving grounds this season I want to hear this blaring from every car, taxi, pub, club and itod itâÂÂs the sound of victory.
âÂÂPork Pie HatâÂÂ
That's it...Jim Stewart. Thanks fellas.
Smog: I agreed with your observations on the first link - until I played the second!
Serious Ouch!
On Brad Jones to Liverpool:
It's surely significant that the two clubs reported as interested in Brad Jones, Liverpool and Arsenal (maybe), are clubs who come up shortest in the "home grown" stakes. Both these clubs are very light and the new rule applies from 1 September.
For those who are unaware, each club must name a minimum of 8 "Home grown" players out of a senior squad of 25. Jones qualifies. Bench goalkeepers are rarely called upon, so the risk is relatively low.
Jones would be a relatively cheap acquisition for either club and wouldn't bust their respective banks in salary, either.
This may be more of a factor in his attractiveness than his perceived intrinsic goalkeeping skills. I find it hard to believe all this interest from purely a skills perspective. I'd have thought the highly-regarded Speroni may have been a more attractive proposition on that basis alone - and he's available. But he ain't "home grown"!
Boro's negotiating hand should therefore be strong. We have no issues with the home grown rule and having Jason Steele and Danny Coyne, can't be held to ransom by QPR on a "Home grown" quota basis should GS2 consider we need additional goalkeeping cover.