Shared Values Or A Divided Soul?
WHAT does the Boro mean to you? And what are the club's core values?
Those were the key questions posed by club officials to an opinion forming cross-section of fans invited to what must've been a depressing post-season think tank.
Or, to give it the full blue sky thinking, 360 degree thinking holistic buzz word treatment:
"The aim is to begin the process of identifying words, phrases or ideas that best reflect what fans feel about their club, what makes it special and what its true values and principles should be. If we are clear about what we stand for we should be taking decisions that reflect these values.
"A clear set of values would ensure Boro have a clearer focus internally while also helping fans understand that decisions are always made in the best interests the Boro supporting community."
Members of the cynical community could be forgiven for thinking the process has the hallmarks of a touchy-feely marketing focus group looking for the right subliminal buttons to press when devising a snappy slogan that ticks all the emotional boxes in selling an exciting range of products and services that have a commercial synergy with the unique Boro brand. Or something.
A similar discussion last year helped formulate much of the club's marketing material. Phrases devined there plus a tagline originally generated by the innovative Twe12th Man supporters group - "It's In The Blood" - were co-opted and plastered all over the season ticket campaign and club shop catalogue.
And a call at that fans' forum for more overt identity with our industrial heritage led to this year's training kit launch photos being taken on a blustery Redcar beach with the imposing view of the mothballed steelworks in the background.
It also led to the introduction of local soul food delicacy 'parmo in a bun,' which may well be a case of listening to the demands of a public keen on calorific intake but is also, again, about revenue streams rather than core beliefs and values.
A long and lively discussion around the key questions on the Fly Me To The Moon message board (and also a related one about what people disliked about the matchday experience) revealed some confusion over what those core values may be and how far people bought into them but also a vague consensus that whatever they were, or had been, the club were slowly drifting away from them.
In fact, that the club even need to ask is a worry and suggests they're not sure either. But at least they are finally looking for a way to reconnect after a frosty decade of damaging institutional estrangement.
The central problem for the club is that in the post-Sky Premier League boom years it has become a slick commercial enterprise with an infrastructure geared to maximising revenue. It is a business operating in a highly competitive market, and a business that was geared almost entirely towards farming the TV cash.
Supporters who put in an ever smaller slice of the top flight pie were systematically devalued as the all important small screen bonanza increased year on year. Fans have been treated with breath-taking arrogance and at times open contempt. As a neccessary evil. Sit down, shut up, give us your money.
There have been improvements over the past two years with Neil Bausor coming in from outside with fresh ideas about a new inclusive relationship and the appointment of a fans officer. There have been a lot of meetings with fans groups and panels made up of season ticket holders, often those who have complained, and several suggestions have been taken up, although few radical ones.
But for all the talk of reconnecting and building relationships, and for all the moves over the past few years to open some channels of communication in the hope of detente to end the cold war, the charm offensive has faltered as the club shoots itself through the foot, pausing only to put their size nines in their mouth first.
It is not so long ago that the chief executive, faced with rising supporter disquiet and talk of falling gates as disillusioned fans walked away, sneered dismissively he was quite relaxed about people not buying season tickets and that, any way, proportionally, the club made more money from casual attenders.
Not so long ago either that the club was sending insensitive, crass, ill-judged and heavy-handed letters to its most passionate and vocal fans asking them to keep the noise down. Or else. The club became a national laughing stock
That was followed by another gaffe as the the chairman called for blind faith and insisted we were all in this together then infuriated legions of lifelong fans with a casual slight that insisted half of his core market came from a town full of Mackems.
And this season in a grossly miscalculated appropriation and cheap commercialisation of precious tradition they have shamefully fenced off the iconic Ayresome Park Gates, a powerful symbol of the past - our past! - making it the grand and impressive entrance limited exclusively to the suit traipsing into the expensive hospitality suites but inaccessible to ordinary fans on a matchday.
There is very little in those public expressions of the club's corporate culture to suggest any core values shared with supporters or any awareness of the concerns of the 'Boro supporting community'. For a decade or more the insular club have put a political firewall around the ground to keep supporters out.
That the club are belatedly trying to bridge the damaging yawning gap that has opened as a result is laudable - but they face a cultural problem that may be insurmountable.
Boro's commercial machinery - and mentality - puts it at odds with the 'customers' for who the club is more than a product; it is an obsession, a duty and a part of their collective birthright. It is the glue that holds the community together.
In towns like Boro, football is about identity. It is about pride. It is about the past, the present and the future. It is the one all engaging dynamic enterprise that unites the town and it is the single most important factor in portraying a positive image both to the rest of the country and internally. The health and success of the club are part and parcel of the self esteem of the people in Teesside, and not just those who go to games.
And for those that do go, it is about a collective mass experience. The club is a central part of our cultural DNA with terrace tales of Camsell, Hardwick, Mannion, Clough, Souness, Slaven and Juninho and an inherited bundle of "typical Boro" traits like paranoia, parochialsm, defeatism and defiance a central part of our oral history, a tradition - or burden - conscientiously passed down the generations and with solo attendance at the game as a Teesside rite of passage.
It is about shared memories and experiences, good and bad: about Charlton's Champions; about liquidation; about as many relegations as promotion; about that first walk down Wembley Way in the ZDS Cup final, and incredibly about getting used to it; about the glory years of hope and ambition with the Riverside Revolution; about the ecstacy of Cardiff and the despair at Eindhoven; and about the pain of going from Boom To Doom and slipping back to a square one downsizing of our dreams.
It is about unalloyed joy, vindication, frustration, anger, defiance and depression, and about sharing those emotions with friends, neighbours and even complete strangers who may as well be brothers when the goal flies in. And it is ours.
It is about the human condition in a harsh economic environment where the club is a proxy for our battle for survival and our one hope of success, recognition and redemption.
It is impossible to distill the essence of that relationship into a snappy slogan about shared values and even if could be captured it would sound trite so long as the words are not backed up by deeds. And so often that is the case.
It is all very well Boro talking about just being the current stewards of a club putting itself at the heart of the community - but this is a community where thousands who love the club - the kids from the estates, the unemployed, those who struggle to stay afloat on the minimum wage - can't afford to go to the game, frozen out during the years of plenty, left with their noses up against the window during the sell out Premiership party. Now we desperately need them back on board but they can't afford the fare.
Teesside is a low wage economy and an area of massive deprivation and disadvantage. We suffer disproportionately in every downtown and more so this time as the already fragile manufacturing base is dismantled and shipped abroad. And with government cuts to the public sector looming that will get worse. But the cheapest price for an adult walk-up ticket to see Scunthorpe, Doncaster or Barnsley is ã23.
Season tickets may well be good value - especially for kids - but matchday prices for casual fans are punative and irrational when the ground is already half-empty. That is a damning indictment of a club alienated from so many of its own core support.
And it is all very well calling on supporters to rally round and show their passion or whatever the focus group comes up with - but this is a club where everything about the matchday experience militates against that. Where away fans are given the prime spot behind one goal, where the PA blares out Pavlovian prompting and drowns out natural celebration, where too often the stewards seem over-zealous in their application of safety legislation that is strangling the atmosphere and where the most visibly noisy fans appear to be regarded as the enemy.
The Red Faction - a group of leather lunged loyalists who have actively opted to do something about the collapse in atmosphere with songs and banners and humour and non-stop chanting - have been isolated by attempts to stop ticket sales and transfers to that block and are surrounded by a ring of hi-vis vests lest they infect the inert masses.
After the final home game against Coventry they stayed for half-an-hour after the whistle chanting in an empty stadium but rather than beam with pride at such passion for a team who had largely under-performed the stewards fidgeted and simmered and closed in menacingly while senior staff sneered. One even described them as 'muppets'. Not a lot of evidence of 'shared values' there.
For many fans their values and relationship with the club were forged long before the sterilisation and commercialisation of the game. Their Holgate values of unashamed and unconditional support through thick and thin and tangible, vocal passion for their team but also a willingness to express frustration and anger and raw emotion and their folk memories of the old terrace norms - standing, shouting, swearing, laughing, drinking and dissolving themselves into the moment - are often seen as an embarrassment.
The truth is that what many, if not most, fans want from the matchday experience is often diametrically opposed to what the club can deliver. It isn't ersatz atmosphere blaring out of the speakers and a wider choice of branded goods in the kiosk.
The truth is that in the soulless modern game geared towards the mediocre millionaires leaving the scene of the crime in their ã100k motors and grey corporate profiteering there are very few values shared with the old school supporters.
The best Boro can hope for is to paper over the cracks for a while by putting a winning team out on the pitch.
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Anthony Vickers
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I don't know whether it's the drugs they've been giving me in the Arthur Scargill Institute, but you're beginning to sound like me. If we are now singing from the same hymn sheet, can I come out?
**AV writes: Go on then, but watch it. Next time it will be the electrodes...
At my age and experience of Boro, I'm more just getting on for old than 'old school' in the terms you describe it.
I don't find romanticism in the collective, shared experience of failure - either for the club or for the town. That romanticism has been, most often, what has fostered decades of failure in both.
With some brief exceptions - a couple of which you've mentioned above - of my five decades plus of being part of the DiasBoro, and with all its faults, the decade leading up to and including Eindhoven was the Golden Era.
Slipping from that was neither necessary nor inevitable. Plenty of other clubs, with similar economic profile and business models to MFC and Boro who are still in the Prem or who have regained it illustrate that.
The decline, fall and failure to rise again - yet - was the result of errors of omission and commission by the key figures running the club as a business and a football team.
What I want from MFC now is to share my ambition for Boro to go forward to another, similar Golden Era - not to fall back into years and years of 'accept your lot'/'not for the likes of us' second tier mediocrity.
And I don't mean by pursuing some ruinous economic model - that's not necessary either.
I want to see that ambition evidenced in actions, not in words - especially of the 'Blind Faith' variety.
The quality gap between the middle to lower reaches of The Prem and even the top of The Championship is a yawning chasm. The second tier is a mediocre (at best) entertainment free zone.
So, the 'product' on the pitch is nowhere near what we've all had a long time to get used to and the only way to make it half way acceptable is to be successful in it with the prospect of promotion.
Whether the hierarchy get it right off the pitch is important - but a second order question. They could make a good start on putting things right by recognising that they have dug themselves - and us - into a big hole and the first step to getting out of that is to stop digging.
While they're pondering on what to do to answer the second order question they can 'paper over the cracks' for a while, as you say, by addressing the first order question, where it all starts and finishes - by putting a winning team out on the pitch again.
And as part of that by having that team play in a winning way that doesn't bore everyone watching - including, by his own admission, the manager - to tears in the process.
If you give folks that - and the town a lift it needs - with a reasonable hope of success, then folks will come to watch.
Talking of deeds not words - and linking that to transfers - isn't this the time to be all over Palace like a rash for the likes of Speroni and Ambrose?
I take no pleasure in the misfortune of Eagles fans - but this is a competition and there are others who won't be troubled by any finer feelings and doing an 'after you, Claude'.
I know QPR are close to a deal over Ambrose - but why not take a leaf out of the Wigan book?
Even a winning team won't heal the divisions. It didn't when we were in Europe and getting our highest ever league finish.
Even then there were squabbles over tickets, travel, boring football, McClaren putting out a weakened side at Villarreal, more boring football, the manager's "magnificent" mantra. We had just made our UEFA debut and Gibson was forced to go on the radio to admit league form was 'dross' and we would 'never play one up front at home again.' How long did that last?
The problem for me is that the game (not just Boro but the entire game) has been stolen from us, the ordinary working class lads who kept it alive for generations.
It used to be the our game. It was usually poor football in rubbish old grounds with standing and open air toilets but it was ours because no one else wanted it. The press and celebs weren't interested. Advertisers ran a mile. No hospitality boxes at Ayresome or Feethams or Roker.
But once the big clubs did their deal with the devil and sold their soul for 30 pieces of silver the game was over. It was tamed, sanitised polished, packeaged and sold to the middle classes and armchair TV brigade as a high priced star studded family "entertainment" and it became their game.
That's the real problem. The game we used to love, that we grew up watching, that we hitched to Carlisle and York in the rain to watch, that we stood up for when everyone else said it was a slum game for hooligans, that game has been transformed into a reality TV show. We aren't the audience anymore, the pubs and living room are.
The fact is that the Sky clubs could do without us. If fans walked away they would use CGI and canned chanting to film the gaps. Boro would join that group again and dispose of us like a shot if they could .
The sad fact lads is that our game is dead.
AV you have excelled yourself this time son.
If this statement is not the opening paragraph in the MFC Business Plan and plastered all over the walls of SG, Keith Lamb and Neil Bausor's offices then it should be:
"In towns like Boro, football is about identity. It is about pride. It is about the past, the present and the future. It is the one all engaging dynamic enterprise that unites the town and it is the single most important factor in portraying a positive image both to the rest of the country and internally. The health and success of the club are part and parcel of the self esteem of the people in Teesside, and not just those who go to games."
Please forward this on to Steve Gibson. Him reading and truly understanding what you've written is the only way the club will 'move forward' in the way the fans want, and the management purport to want.
Brilliant article AV
Take note MFC
A rather depressing read but fairly accurate.
The club should drop the season tickets (I'm a red book holder) and instead you could buy a "bond" card every season for a fee that gives you first choice of cup tickets and the right to claim the same seat. This leaves it open for the club to offer ticket deals without upsetting everyone,i.e buy one get one free etc.
Look at the jobsworth stewarding (remember Tango man and our own fat lad from the North stand fiasco?.)
On a lesser scale,I would love to buy a nominal share in "the boro", (none of this MFC nonsense.) just to have the certificate on my wall. They did this a bit with the yellow brick road scheme.
This is so true.... but I wish i had the cash to see the games
Former Middlesbrough frontman Lee Dong-Gook is included despite an injury scare in the South Korean squad. Shall we take him back with Mido? They would scare the crowds in the Championship - at least at Riverside! Up the Boro!
Good stuff AV
Craig B - I know exactly where you are coming from as I have done exactly what you wrote in the past.
I still think that without a standing area (it could be for limited numbers and season ticket holders only) the atmosphere at the Riverside will be non existant.
I was stood on the back row of seats with no one within 20 seats of me (apart from my mate who stood next to me) only to be suddenly surrounded by five stewards threatening to throw us out if we did not sit down.
It is for reasons like this that I am wavering on another SC.
I am waiting to see if Boro spend any money before I renew my SC, why should I spend my hard earned cash if Boro don't spend theirs?
C'mon Boro!
Craig B said:
"That's the real problem. The game we used to love, that we grew up watching, that we hitched to Carlisle and York in the rain to watch, that we stood up for when everyone else said it was a slum game for hooligans, that game has been transformed into a reality TV show. We aren't the audience anymore, the pubs and living room are."
I totally agree what Craig said that "the game has been transformed into a reality TV show". Add Cole and now Terry here - what a reality!
But I hope the game can be improved towards what the fans want - this recession could be a blessing here. Up the Boro!
Agree with all the above and it should go up on SGs wall.
Fond memories of going to the park,starting off with a small trickle of people growing ever bigger as you get closer to the ground. A few pints on the way. The banter in the pubs eventualy everybody heading in the same direction in the same colours on the same mission to sing our hearts out and support the Boro. You could cut it with a knife.
Those were the days joy at a win, upset with a loss but still the support was there.
The Holgate end was the meeting place for the faithful as was the other parts of the ground.
All gone now but what you have written AV should stir a few people into action if we realy want to go forward from here.
Craig B has got it right. The game doesn't belong to the fans anymore. The Premier League has become a global product which is sold to the highest bidder. Unfortunately football's soul was part of the price. The Championship is full of PL wannabees, who are equally prepared to sell their souls.
If you look at the original 20 PL teams from 1992 it is quite illuminating. The last season has been a stark reminder of what life outside the top tier means to clubs like us.
I find it insulting when the club puts the onus on the fans to solve the ills of MFC. Rank poor mismanagement has got us into this predicament, they can't say they didn't see it coming as the writing was on the wall for all to see.
Slash ticket prices and get bums on seats, that is the way forward, give all Boro's fans the chance to support their team. 18,000 paying ã25 or 32,000 paying ã15. I know which crowd I would rather be in.
Sadly I am reminded of something my late father used to say. "They are a tuppence ha'penny club, always have been and always will be"
Have you seen one of those ubiquitous beer ads on the telly - if Carlsberg did team talks?
I'd sit the board down and get my unkle Dave (pre 86 club badge tattoes an' all) to deliver every line of this article to them - Cheers AV.
AV - have you ever recieved any feedback from the club (either officially or non) about this column? I've always wondered if anyone on the inside would regard you as a supporters representative (seeing as you normally have more debate with fans in a typical match week than the club has in a season) or a just a stirrer.
**AV writes: I get the odd complaint. Generally they think I am a stirrer. There is a mindset at the top levels in the club that sees any discussion that strays off message as being the same as outright opposition. They struggle with the concept that the most passionate supporters may support the club but not back every single decision. And criticism, no matter how constructive, is almost always seen as a direct attack. and it is never forgotten. Bizarrely, and in defiance of all objective evidence of our positive coverage, there are people at the club who think that the Gazette are "against" the Boro.
"WHAT does the Boro mean to you? "
Like football in general these day, Boro mean very little to me. I hate what the game has now become with its greedy players, deluded owners and CEO's, plastic atmospheres and modern day prawn sarnie eating footy fans.
This season is make or break with it being the last parachute payment if we do not get promoted. As such how much the crowd pays to get in the Riverside is not really an issue for the club. Charge fans ã10 a game and generate an atmosphere that will help propel the club back into the PL
C'mon Boro!
Not good enough for Boro but...
Former Middlesbrough frontman Lee Dong-gook has been included ( in Korea's World Cup squad) at the expense of Jubilo Iwata's Lee Keun-ho after coach Huh was assured the 31-year-old would be fit to face Argentina and Nigeria
Were we hasty to get rid...?
John Aus.
**AV writes: No. He was rubbish.
It comes down to what I have said often enough in the past: MFC and Boro are different entities. We will always be Boro fans but that doesnt make us lovers of MFC.
You only have to go to an away match to see the good humour and love for the club so evident amongst the fans. Yes, there are people like John Powls, Billy from Berks and myself who see more away than home games but the vast majority of the travelling hordes are regulars at the Riverside.
The miserable home atmosphere can only be resolved by the club, the fans are waiting for something to cheer after several years of horrible entertainment at the Riverside. The only way to rebuild bridges is by giving something worthwhile to follow.
All the fancy gimmics in the world will do nothing unless there is something to cheer on the pitch.
Whatever we write or say there is no sound unless someone can hear it. Or more pertinently, wants to hear it. A benign dictator is still a dictator.
Good article AV - a nice mix of nostalgia, hubris and unfulfilled aspirations when worlds collide. Football kind of reflects modern society with the self-proclaimed saviours of the ignorant masses believing they know what is best but without understanding the world in which they live.
Though the romantic game of yester-year where the game belongs to the fans still exists - It's called League 2. When football became big business sadly the fans of medium-sized clubs became increasing marginalised as you rightly pointed out their money was an ever decreasing slice of the pie.
Big clubs in big cities have built even bigger stadiums, which has somewhat helped retain the fans' influence - fans of clubs like Boro are treated little more than passengers on Ryanair - no frills clubs serving up no thrills football!
Capio78 said:
"Like football in general these day, Boro mean very little to me. I hate what the game has now become with its greedy players."
Capio, I agree with the greedy players part. But football means me more than ever. At 49 I spent three nights kicking the ball with friends, I am here at Untypical blog every day, etc. Even spend quite a lot of money to travel and see Boro at Riverside. But agree that the 'greedy' players are turning people away.
Long live players like our Robbo. I only hope we get promoted as I cannot see Boro on TV here if we are not in the PL. Up the Boro!
The best any club can hope for is that it is fully integrated within the community/city, that there is an unbreakable link between the community/fans and the club.
Success is not always on the menu - it can't be because only one team can win the league, the FA cup and the Carling cup. See Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle for evidence.
If the folks at the Boro could take note of some (most) of Anthony's thoughts, and in particular find a mechanism to allow the young and low paid to get to game and add this to the clubs excellent Youth Policy and Community Work - they would be well placed to improve the club on and off the field.
It is not just the Boro. Clubs everywhere have lost touch with the fans. They have cast the past and tradition adrift. They don't want the old fans on board, they want new plastic credit card customers who sit quietly and applaud politely then head off to the club shop.
But they are cutting their own throats. Firstly as what made football a "product" was atmosphere, crowds and passion and the faster that fades the less chance the clubs have of attracting "new" fans in and the ones they have got now get bored and drift away.
Secondly TV is fickle. If audiences dip TV will drop football like a stone and then where will the clubs be? With a massive hole in their fiances and huge debts from wages. The 'new' fans wdon't have the passion and they will be off when the fashion passes meanwhile generations of ordinary lads what should have been the hardcore will have been alienated and priced out. The game will be over.
Bewarethespin
The paragraph you quoted is typical of fans up and down the country, even at the big clubs with lots of gloryhunters. If you speak to most fans they will pull your leg and then genuinely ask about your club.
It may irk some people but the big clubs still have a high percentage of locals as regular attendees. It is the more regional clubs such as Boro that have truly high figures.
The vast majority of fans are disenchanted with their lot and begrudge the money players receive. In some causes it appears downright fraudulent but you cant blame them if someone is dim enough to throw small fortunes their way.
It is all a bag of poo.
AV -
I was astonished that you are viewed as a stirrer. Cough, splutter. If stirrers were marked on a scale of 1-10, Bernie got a mark of 8 and Uncle EWric 1 where would you be placed? Come to think of it would many of us posters be invited for drinks in the boardroom?
**AV writes: I think at times I have gone off the dial. The main charge is that by publicly talking about failings and mistakes on and off the pitch and by discussing and deconstructing reasons for dissent among supporters I legitimise it and that by distilling protest into soundbites I hand potent weapons to the mob. Because, as we know, if we don't talk about it, it will go away.
Divided Soul ?
Listening to the news about the England squad confirms my views on Capello - he's gone native and has been swayed by the influence of the lazy journalists who can't see beyond the 'top six' teams.
Excuse the harshness of the comments below but it is an exercise in brevity.
Gerard - ONE good game in 10 years.
Heskey - God help us all.
Barry - Stiff and immobile at the peak of his fitness
Ferdinand - Clearly injured and struggling
Defoe - Out of his depth and selfish
Carragher - Desperate, slow, defender who doesn't want to play.
Huddlestone - YTTP (I know he's not going)
Wright Phillips - Third in line at City !!
Lennon - 'Jack Russell' chasing a ball.
Rooney - Moody, bad tempered, clearly under par (compare his movement to that when he scored that beautiful goal against Arsenal !!!)
Scholes - Begging him to play = loss of all dignity.
The treatment of Downing, Johnson, Parker, Bent, Woolcott has been diabolical. Bent got the same treatment as Kevin Phillips 10 years ago i.e. 35 minutes to prove himself while the rest (Lampard, Gerard....) stroll around trying to make sure they don't get injured. Parkers treatment was an insult
Walcott was no worse than Phillips and Lennon.
With Downing and Johnson he, 'Capello' has decided that Ashley Cole carries enough attacking threat down the left and that he can make do with a right footed left winger. We'll see.
The ENGLAND team is much worse than it was 2 years ago and that says it all.
I will be officially supporting an old Boro ally North Korea, while my money will be going on Argentina/Spain. Dempsey to score 1st against ENgland.
Lennon on the left ? he can't cross/pass with his 'good foot' never mind his left.
Well I might as well sit back and enjoy
Scoredraw
England will revert to type and escape the group phases only to lose to someone technically superior. Let us put it another way, the other side will pass to each other and we will play our part by giving them the ball at every opportunity.
Gerrard and Lampard wont know whether to stay to mind the shop or go to support the attack and both will do neither. The right footed player on the left will tuck in and leave Cole to deal with two players.
Barry's injury will not heal quickly enough and he will lose all his pace(?) only to return for the first knock out match and pick up another knock.
We will resort to the long ball for Crouch/Heskey to knock down and Gerrard to the 40 yard driven ball into the channels for Michael Owen to chase on to.
Lose in the quarter finals.
Story, end of.
I will start fully behind the team and by the quarter finals will be heartily sick of the whole affair
The Red Book of Eli
Eli: The relegation tore a hole in the club, the team came down, sold the best players, everything, everyone, I wandered, I didn't really know what I should do or where I was going. I was just moving from Doncaster to places like Scunthorpe, trying to stay alive.
And then one day I heard this voice. I don't know how to explain it, it's like it was coming from inside me. But I could hear it clear as day. Clear as I can hear you talking to me now. It told me to carry the book west, it told me that a path would be laid out before me, that I'd be led to a place where the book would be safe it told me I'd be protected, against anyone or anything that tried to stand in my way. If only I would have Blind faith. That was some time ago and I've been walking ever since
Solara: You said you've been walking for some time, did you ever think you were lost
Eli: I walk by Blind faith not by sight
Solara: What's that even mean?
Eli: It means you know something even if you don't know something
Solara: That doesn't make any sense
Eli: It doesn't have to make sense, its fate, its fate, draw from the strength within
Solara: Is that from the book?
Eli: No it's Johnny Cash live from Folsom Prison.
Marketing Manager: I need you to have that book, I want you to have that book, I want you to stay but if you make me have to choose I'll kill you and take that book
Eli: Why, why do you want me to have it?
Marketing Manager: I grew up with that red book, I know its power.
Eli: Tears up the renewal form
Solara: I didn't think you'd ever give up the red book, I thought it was too important to you
Eli: It was, I was carrying and reading it everyday, got so caught up in protecting it, I forgot to live by what I'd learnt from it
Solara: And what's that?
Eli: You can always get a ticket on the day of the match.
Will I ever visit the Riverside again? Doubt it. I agree that the game has sold its soul.
The play off finals with an empty tier at Wembley because of this corporate nonsense. What is that all about? Our National Stadium with empty seats, because of GREED!
Champions League semi-finals with 3 English clubs - what a bore! I was delighted we failed in this years competition, followed by the inevitable inquest into the state of our game because we have some right to be successful? Bull!
We have missed the opportunity to build something at Boro by selling the likes of Cattermole, Morrison, Davies and the rest. Local players who would give their all, sold at the expense of chasing a dream which would always end in relegation sooner or later.
What a mess.
Congratulations, AV, on another very fine article!
How refreshing and unusual you are in your attitude to the fans: a football correspondent who actually talks and listens to them! Even represents us! Amazing, it's almost as if you are a reporter! (Must be awkward to those who want a mouthpiece!)
If the club don't know you are in tune with the way long-standing Boro fans work then they are just another bunch of corporate bottom-line-watching wannabes who, despite having failed in their grand project, sit around in nice, warm, well salaried coccoons and convince themselves of their own wisdom and superior worth.
They know everything that goes on in there, you see; they can see as far as can be seen, as far as that misty silky screen at the end of their world! That's because, unlike poor GHW, they do not care to venture out on the dark, scary roads from Doncaster to Scunthorpe.
I think, and hope, football's business bubble will implode soon. For starters, Sky and their cronies are aiming for a middle-class market who express their interest commercially by spending loadsa money. Fashions change, though, and even the stupidest footie-watcher must get bored with Jamie Redknapp repeating the last thing he heard some wise man say. The vile project called the World Cup 2010, exploiting South Africa, can only hasten the time when people see FIFA for what it is. (And good on you, Triesman, sez I!)
Secondly, TV football is really boring; you can't atually see the game! You only see what a tube can see. Andy Gray playing with computer men, firms compiling statistics books and games like Football Manager attempt to plug the hole. But that's just being a nerd, almost the opposite of sport.
Thirdly, if you analyse the national press coverage of football, it's not football that they cover, but a mix of celebrity gossip and financial speculation.
Fourthly, how many of us really enjoyed scrapping to survive in the Premiership?
How long before Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Fulham, West Ham, WBA etc get fed up with being whipping boys for the big clubs, enough to do something about it?
I've said it before on here, I think, and I know it initially sounds crazy, but I really think we can get our game back if we let the top five or six clubs get on with European Leagues and playing each other with their expensively assembled investment portfolios and if the fans-based clubs set up a new Football League with added extra competitiveness.
The rules could be re-cast so that what most genuine fans hate is limited to the few super-rich (or super-indebted) foreign owners' toys, who will stay outside the league until they can behave, and the rest of us can get back to sporting decency.
Call me out of date, but something was lost when we moved from Ayresome Park into the soulless Riverside Stadium. Not all the Boro's fault - the all seaters had to come in. Robbo's revolution and the changed demograpic of the supporters only papered over the cracks for a while.
We are still paying the price for the worst decision in the clubs history in appointing Gareth as manager. We are now in a similar position to when i started supporting the Boro back in 1970: decent ex-player as manager, hard core fans of 17000, disillusioned stayaway supporters.
So expect three seasons of mediocrity, then a hard nosed, no-nonsense centre half of northern stock comes in and transforms club. Sorry I forgot Gibsons snubbed Mogga twice already, nice one Gibbo
Stirring, forthright, passionate and insightful Blog, AV. You've surpassed yourself and that takes some doing given your very high standards. Anyhow, this sentence you conjured up says it all for me:
"Sit down, shut up, give us your money."
There is little to no chance of ever healing the massive rift that divides the club and the fans given the presence of at least one high profile member of the current regime who is one of the major reasons why there is such disunity among our ranks.
Until that serious bottleneck of highly objectionable, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou claptrap and attitude is extricated, the club's hierarchy are simply wasting their time.
Do they really expect Boro fans to take their marketing ploy seriously? It's an insincere gesture that is reactive and all too late.
To make our point, their efforts should be met with stony silence just to prove how disaffected many Boro fans feel.
I can't help being cynical about it. In fact, it's preposterous. One of the most pragmatic and effective solutions to what mostly ails us would be to remove the bottleneck I allude to. Then and only then might we stand a chance of the club and fans re-joining our collective umbilical cords.
In the meantime, we should all make "Sit down and shut up!" banners just to let them know how the average Boro fan feels.
So the powers that be at M.F.C. have had to resort to a fact finding mission as to why the Riverside is empty and devoid of any passion or atmosphere. Have Mr Gibson and Mr Lamb been watching the football on show for the last 3 years?
If they have then thay should have all the information they need as to why there is a lack of interest in watching Middlesbrough FC. Mr Gibson has cited the current economic times we are living in - the closure of Corus etc etc for the dwindling gates. NONSENSE !
If there was a team worth watching people will go and watch. Look at the Liverpool gates of the late 70s early 80s - packed out - and the whole of Liverpool was on the dole! But an increase of ã35 for season ticket holders and extortionate prices for the so called lucrative casual attender like myself. Next season will be the same attendance wise - or worse. The lowest average attendance for 20 years.
More recently, look at the Robson era. We got relagated - we lost more games than we won - but it was entertaining to watch and the Riverside was full to bursting.
We have sold a whole team of young players. Players made here at the Boro. Players who we were told, on that Saturday in Fulham a few seasons ago, were the future of the club. Morrison Downing Johnson Parnaby Davies Cattermole Turnbull et al all gone.
I would like to think that I as a supporter throughout the late 70s , all through the 80s into the early 90's I have seen the lows of being a Boro fan. Yet those years stood on an empty Holgate with 3000 others in Ayresome were some of the best memories of being a Boro fan.
And the 1986 badge showed who we were. A club REBORN "like a phoenix from the ashes of liquidation". Yes we have been in existance since 1876 - but 1986 was the start of our new success and as a fan and the saviour of Middlesbrough Football Club. Mr Gibson will do good by remembering that time as a time of unity and hope for our club.
We saw the best- most enjoyable - most entertaining era in modern times since 1986 ( I for one will not buy another shirt while the hideous new badge exists ) so lets get back to what this club is all about. Bring back the 1986 badge and lets just forget the lasat 3 seasons.
We missed a the boat with the UEFA success and instead of kicking on and establishing top 10 status we are now right back where we were 25 years ago. Southgate was the wrong appointment - at that time - he was given the difficult transitional job of big spenders to cost cutting. A Strachan -like manager was what was required. But hey - thats the past.
Mr Gibson - I am a great admirer of you and for what you achieved for the Boro from 1986 to 2006. Lets go back to basics and back to what made the club a success. Players with passion and commitment and the ability to entertain. Bring back the spirit of '86 and a fair price at the turnstile 'til you can truely justify the cost. Thats what will bring the fans back.
I gave up my season card after relegation, and became a walk-up fan. Not hard to fathom my logic - I live in Lancashire and in three years of watching Gareth's poor side, and several before that of McClaren, I can count on my fingers how many times I actually enjoyed the long drive home.
I had, in truth, been losing my interest long before we went down. Plus the fact that we went down with barely a whimper (I was raised on Jack Charlton, Souness, Moggga and Boateng for God's sake!) hammered final nails into the coffin of my week-by-week devotion.
Last season I managed 9 home games and 5 away. I enjoyed one, possibly one and a half, of the home games. Without exception (and whether we lost, drew, or won) I enjoyed all of the away matches. Quite simply, the atmosphere generated by our away fans is magnificent.
Being a grumpy old git these days I hate standing, but it's what I've come to expect when I travel away with Boro, and I willingly put up with it because of the banter and the humour and the chanting, and that indescribable feeling that we are Boro, we are Teesside, it's us against the world!
We don't get that at the Riverside any more; the North Stand, once the proud son and heir of The Holgate, drifts easily into somnolence and boredom, and by the end of the season had just given up entirely trying to get behind the lads.
Thank God for the Red Faction. If no other message goes back to MFC from this exercise it is that they must not try to stifle the only atmosphere the place has left. That's where my soul is, even though I don't sit with them, and they are my soul at away games.
But you know, even now, I still get the kick as the weekend approaches. I still love driving up to Boro, the thrill of approaching the ground, the sea of red, the anticipation before kick-off. I could go to Bolton, or Blackburn, or Wigan (all less than 10 miles distant) or I could try Blackpool next season, but I know I wouldn't ever get the same feelings or the same rush of blood to the head (and the heart) I get from Boro. It is indeed in the blood.
And deep down, however cynical we've become, I'm sure we've all still got that. MFC must absolutely be made to realise that this fan-base is the lifeblood of the club; we, the ordinary fans, are the bread and butter; we matter. Without us the club is nothing. But over the last few years with gaffes and relegation and poor management they've driven so many of us away. They can easily get us back.
They can still call on my devotion - I'll be there when I can next season - and that of thousands of others. We all still love our Boro. But give us back our pride and our passion, give us something to sing about, and for God's sake, let us then sing our hearts out for the lads without putting petty jobsworth barriers in the way.
Superb article AV.
You little devil! You'll never get to Boro heaven if you tell the truth!
Nice piece AV but the most insightful paragraph comes in your reply to Yorkshire Red when you say: âÂÂThere is a mindset at the top levels in the club that sees any discussion that strays off message as being the same as outright oppositionâÂÂ.
It is this perpetually defensive outlook from the club which panics and confuses me. I think you are 100 per cent correct in your analysis but try as I might, I really donâÂÂt get why.
Why does the hierarchy (outwardly at least) feel this way? Surely they must understand the broader supporter outlook, and assuming so, why are they denying it?
I have always been a Steve Gibson acolyte and given that he is very much of the Boro DNA make-up, I canâÂÂt believe that he canâÂÂt see, understand and accept the wider discontent.
Has he now become so far removed from the masses (understandable if so but I donâÂÂt think so) that he knows whatâÂÂs best for us all regardless of our opinions or desires? It wouldnâÂÂt be unfair to say at times that there is a touch of Eastern Block directive and leadership about the Boro.
I would go as far to say that Gibson is the single most important figure in the clubâÂÂs history but he needs to wise up and quickly. Getting rid of the chief executive could be a very good move regardless of whether he deserves it or becomes the ultimate sacrificial Lamb.
We need to wipe the slate clean and if that means starting with a new chief exec, then so be it. It would of course buy Gibson time too. IâÂÂm not sure we have anything to lose by doing so â any bog standard accountant could run the finances but the leadership and strategy need refreshing big time.
It would mean Gibson chopping his friend and enforcer and loyalty is SteveâÂÂs strong and admirable big trait. But does he really have anything to lose?
Boro's core values are small mindedness, parochialism, incompetence, willingness to accept mediocrity, speed to take offence, bloody minded stubbornness, the need for a scapegoat, the ability to hold a grudge, the inability to admit you are were wrong, quick to close ranks when threatened from outside, fear of change.
To be fair, the average fan shares most of those traits. Maybe the supporters have got the club they deserve after all.
As much as I recall the seething mass of passion from my youth on the Holgate with nostalgia, those days are finished. They,and standing at grounds are in the past however we all feel about that.
What can the club do?
1. First of all the club desperately needs a new face in the boardroom to start talking to the fans and give them some feeling of a fresh start.Gibson/Lamb dont say anything that anybody either listens to or believes any more.
They are like a government that has been in power for three terms.Nobody cares what they say. Gibson to remain owner and Keith Lamb the bean counter by all means but we need fresh blood at the top.
2. The season card needs to mean more than a ticket to get in. You need to be reminded in little ways all the time that your loyalty is noted and rewarded.
How about a cheap beer promotion at the first match for ST holders only? How abour a football quiz night at the stadium for teams of ST holders with food, prizes and a few players present? Little things like this wont sell cards but subconciously reinforce your decision to stay loyal and that your support is appreciated.
3.Call off the intrusive stewarding. Let people enjoy the match. Let them release their weeks frustration as long as it does not incite racism or provoke violence. Encourage the lads in the SE corner.
4. Make a commitment to attacking football.Take out the Man City home game at the end of season 2007-8 for the rest of that season the stats were 18 games 19 goals. Season 2008-9 19 games 17 goals. Season 2009-10[Championship] 23 games 25 goals.They are absolutely shocking.
Blackpool scored nearly twice as many home goals.It involves getting two or three of the correct midfielders in who are prepared to committ into the opposition penalty area [a feature of Blackpools play].
5. Start thinking of some strategies to shift a more tickets particularly to the many financially disadvantaged fans who are priced out of the ground.
There, that took me 10 minutes of my time to come up with. I'd like to think that the club would listen.Any other business which potentially faced a 50% loss in its customer base in two years would not sit back in a state of paralysis but would try to do something about it .
I'm stating the obvious here, but surely if gate receipts now represent a very small piece of the footballing-financial-pie, the club could afford to slash ticket prices?
Kids for fiver all season? Adults for ã15? It'd be a great gesture, help fill the ground, create an atmosphere, inspire the team and we'd sell more shirts, pies and pints to make up some of the difference.
**AV writes: At this level TV money is vastly reduced and next year, if we don't go up and the parachute payments run out, it will be the cut back to almost nothing making what comes through the gate vast majority of income. That is why the club- who grew used to treating fans as a bit part inconvenience when the Sky cash made them aloof and invincible - now need to come to a new deal with fans.
Would one way of building some more honesty about the 'product' into the season card offers be to restructure the timing to more closely reflect the key transfer window milestones?
Since the summer transfer window opens on June 1 and most player contracts end at the end of that month, 'Early bird' could be extended until 30 June and would still be somewhat 'Blind Faith' - though a bit more informed than now.
If the club was looking to change manager, it would most often be likely to have happened by then too. (I know you can't legislate for an aberration like last season's shenanigans at Boro)
The deadline and pricing now set for June 4 could then be extended to 31 August with a pro-rata (not face value) reduction for any match by match tickets bought during August, if the SC is bought after the start of the season.
Is there any other branch of enterprise that asks customers to lay out cash up front with so little view of what the package that you're paying for will look like?
I think it is easy to say that there would be much more people to watch if the tickets were cheaper. I think they are already now reasonably priced compared to Continental level. Every salesman knows that by reducing price you really need to sell much more to earn the same! People will come back only if they see committed and flowing football at Riverside.
I think the main point is like KL said in the Gazette interview: "What I think weâÂÂll get from Gordon StrachanâÂÂs Middlesbrough team is honest endeavour. I know, because I see it, the ambition, drive and commitment of the manager."
I really hope we see a different Boro next season. Up the Boro!
Great article AV.
There has always been this us and them attitude at the club, more so since Southgate was appointed and we began our dissent down the league(s).
The club have been out of touch with what the fans expect for too long. What other club would tell its fans that it does not care about how many season tickets they sell or that they will get a club it deserves?
Telling fans to shut up, killing the club badge, removing the white band, employing poor managers, employing poor players, foolish PR, over priced tickets, not getting rid of one of the main problems at the club... the list could go on and on.
The own goals that the club have made of over the last 5 or so years have been nothing other than suicidal.
The attititude they continue to show makes me think that they were actually suprised we got relegated the season before last.
AV, if you are right and that the club thing you are a trouble maker by actually discussing the club to allow an open and fair debate - then surely the club are based in the wrong country. It is funny that they are now having a think tank when they realise they will need the fans money next season.
KL comes out today to try and get more season cards....I think they will have to do better than saying the team is going to be fitter and more determined. Remember what happened when it was the best squad he had ever seen - we know how that season ended.
It all stems down to one thing for me. Communication.
The club joined forces with BBC Tees to apparently have more communication with the fans. Fan Panels were meant to be regular. I think they did one, and now we get Lamb on for an hour when deadlines are coming up, filled with stupid questions(we cant go through the gates etc)
I would love the club to have a few fan panels this summer on various subjects.
Such as the match day experience. Boro seem to want a family fun day, but is that what they're customer base want? They have to find out.
Actually, Strachan suggested the club may have a probables versus possibles game. The club should open this up as a FREE event and have people milling about to answer questions (maybe not Lamb he gets a bit of undue stick and would be lynched)
There ya go again, using Scunthorpe as the metaphor for not-people-like-us. Just stop it, will you?
Jarkko said, "People will come back only if they see committed and flowing football at Riverside."
I think that's absolutely right. The best way to encourage fans to come to matches is to offer them an entertaining and successful team.
However, this does not mean that other incentives should be ignored.
With the parachute payments still coming in for the coming season, albeit at a reduced rate, I would firstly like to see the club reduce walk-up prices as an incentive to those who cannot commit to a Season Card but still want to come to the odd match when time / finances allow. They will be more inclined to attend that extra game game or three if the prices are more attractive, inclusive and representative of the product on offer.
Secondly (and I think this has been suggested before), for those who want to come often but cannot commit to a full Season Card, perhaps we could have a pro rata pick-and-choose option where you could book a seat for perhaps 8 or more fixtures that you'd like to attend. You may only be able to afford 10 games a season, or may want to see how the early season goes before fully committing.
The incentive over walking up on the day for the supporter would be a reduced rate by buying in bulk, and a guaranteed same-seat. For the Boro, they'd get the cash up front. I'm sure there are forward-thinking, flexible options to be considered there.
Thirdly, perhaps full SC buyers could be offered the incentive of a substantially cut-price SC for next season, should we gain promotion. With the increase in TV money, and supporter interest in the Premier League, I'm sure the club could afford to offer this as an incentive, and a thank you, to those able and willing to buy a SC for this coming season.
I think there are marketing options to be discussed here that would encourage attendance, but the fundamental issue will always be the product on the pitch.
Pique from Verbeek but we will never know the truth about the injury. One thing is for certain, the only time an international manager can dictate is when they pay the wages of the players and that aint going to happen any time soon.
Shame for Rhys but as a Boro fan lets see him back in the North East recuperating. He should go to plenty of World Cups.
That leaves very few players of interest for us to follow. Lets concentrate on getting more players in.
Unconfirmed reports that Pogatetz has joined Hanover.
No surprises there really, but we're looking light at the back.
Any news on McManus and the lad from Rochdale?
**AV writes: We understand Poggi has agreed a three year deal subject to a medical.
I donâÂÂt think we can blame Sky for destroying football. Right now as I type SSN is telling me that the Engerlund team is now at Heathrow airport and will bring me live pictures of them getting on the plane. Who wouldnâÂÂt think that this was a worthwhile use of airtime, not to mention my own.(!)
But back to the question in hand, what do I want from the boro? Well since I became a dad it is no longer the most important thing in my life, bar the 90mins and maybe a couple of hours sulk/celebration afterwards.
What I want from my club is first and foremost to exist and not risk financial ruin like some other clubs. Then I would like to think the club is there for the community, to represent, to showcase, to give a source of enjoyment and in no short matter to be able to develop some brilliant local talent.
I want there to be a club for my lad to support which he can be proud of (and we have already had the odd impromptu post on the live matchday blog) and in many ways I think Steve Gibson has done that.
Of course there have been some ridiculous PR own goals recently but on the whole I think we are better than most clubs in that department. Also there has to be a team we can believe in, which hasnâÂÂt been there in the last couple of years but all clubs go through cyclical periods of success.
I think your expectations of the team will vary from club to club. I canâÂÂt help but think when we go on one of our bi-annual 13 games without a win and you grab a last minute winner somewhere, the joy and pride in cheering the lads off the pitch is greater than that of corporate utd or moneybags athletic fan seeing their team win at âÂÂWemberleyâÂÂ.
Going to a match should be a safe experience there is no reason why in this day an age people should get hurt or hear some the vial abuse heard years ago. But going to the match is not the same as going to the Cinema.
People should stand, people should sing, shout, swear, give the lino dogs abuse. THATâÂÂS WHAT HES THERE FOR!!! The match is more than 90 mins. The result is very important but a I think itâÂÂs perfectly natural for a human being to go a bit tribal once a week, its healthy.
Provisions in the ground should cater for all but if some want to chant, raise humorous banners and get behind the lads they should be encouraged.
Ticket prices do look prohibitive to many but we canâÂÂt expect GS2 to spend loads of money if we are not bringing it in. There have been some very good suggestions especially a 6 or 8 game ticket. I think the club will have to be more imaginative.
And finally football is not about advertising Pringles, sports leisure wear, linesman pulling his socks above his kneeâÂÂs ala Terry âÂÂEnry and wall to wall coverage of nothing. ItâÂÂs about me.
I support the club because I want to. At times it gives me a tremendous sense of joy, pride and an identity . ItâÂÂs mine and nobody will ever take it away.
The Boro means to me the team that I once told people I supported, and you can't change your team.
You can change your lass. You can change your job. You can change your town. You can change your hair. You can't change your team under any circumstances (though the jury is still out where Wimbledon fans are concerned, and let us hope that that never happens again) and retain any sort of respect, let alone self-respect. It makes saying and singing things like "Boro 'til I die" so dangerous, and so meaningful, and so brilliant.
Ten or twenty more years of struggle, which I think we're going to have, will make singing "Where were you when we were" (etc.) all the sweeter afterwards.
Smogs at 8.59pm - Barry might be yours, but the Boro is OURS. Belongs to all of us but, like that long-ago girlfriend or "partner", if she walks away from us, there's not a lot we can do.
Stalk her when it is obvious she doesn't care about US any longer?
And, by the way, I agree with the vast majority of all you have said in that heartfelt post.
It will be interesting to see how many games Poggi plays for Hannover (or whoever) next season. Realistically, however, we could hardly justify continuing to pay wages three times the level apparently received by Charlie Adam at Blackpool for a player who is really a centre half but can only get a game as a square pegged left back, for I guess eight or nine starts a season.
We have little money. We must spend what we have wisely. Otherwise in the 2011/12 season we will have almost NO money and little hope for the future.
Pogatetz has turned his back on Middlesbrough and agreed to sign a three-year contract with German side Hannover. I agree with Dormo there - we could spend the money better (he seems to get a match at left back when not injured). Of course his attitude was always right, though.
Now the question is - is McManus coming back? And the lad from Rochdale? Is Bates fit to play a full season at centre back? I hope GS2 has some answers when the window opens! Up the Boro!
Now that Pogi has joined Riggs and turned down the offer he was always meant to refuse - and assuming that Jon Grounds signs and Wheats stays, which may not be a foregone conclusion in either case - the requirement is for a couple of experienced centre backs.
The lad from Rochdale may be OK as another Andy Halliday style 'improver' but he doesn't have the experience or track record to anchor the defence of a team that (allegedly) has serious ambitions for promotion next season.
I agree with John Powls about centre backs. We have a distinct lack of men in that position.
McManus would be the preferred option as the senior pro. Wheats alongside him should improve rapidly - we do have a tendency to forget how young the Redcar Rock actually is because he seems to have been playing for years.
Pogi and Riggott Mortis leaving are two good pieces of business. Nothing against either player as such but on high wages for so few appearnces they were hardly good value for money. It also saves us the dreadful sight of Pogi playing left back. To think McMoses preffered him to Mad Franck was unbelievable.
If we resolve the centre back position it reduces the pressure on the full backs. GS2 will have had a chance to look at all the candidates and it is now up to Taylor or Bennett on the left and Hoyte, Williams or McMahon to nail down the position on the right.
I am a great admirer of McMahon because of his obvious commitment on the pitch. The fact he was playing with a broken foot was admirable though one is constantly amazed at what happens, or not, at Crockcliffe.
I wonder if someone goes round filling the holes on the golf course. Maybe the stewards have a summer job keeping golfers off the grass. Sorry about that interlude but I wonder what AV thinks of Boro being linked to such a flagrant display of capitalism by the training ground?
It would be great to some some positive movement into the club before they return to training but many clubs will be holding out for best price possible.
A final thought is the current action by the Inland Revenue to try and break footballs rules on debt. It transpires they are not happy over the fact football has the first call over any money when a club goes belly up.
The significance hadnt dawned until I listened to Mick Dennis doing his paper review on Sky this morning. He highlighted an article in the Financial Times.
Initially it looks unfair that local business get so little whilst transfer debts are paid in full. The danger is that if HM revenue and Customs get their way then a club failing would have a domino effect throughout the game as staged transfer payments are written down.
The example given was Tommy Smith moving from Watford to Pompey for say, ã2m. Watford wont have had all their money and would be in a mess if someone turned round and told them they were getting a fraction of that figure.
It doesnt seem right for creditors to lose out but who wants their club to 'volunteer' to do without as a lesson to the rest of football?
And it isnt all Sky's fault despite the bile heaped upon them. We all have choices.
Sometimes as fans when things are not going well it is our instinct to lash out at the club and blame them for all the ills in our world as if they have engineered them deliberately just to annoy us.
Sometimes we just have to put our hand up and admit that we are where we are because of circumstances beyond our control. Other teams were better, had more money, got a few lucky breaks. It happens.
Anyone who thinks Gibson and Lamb actually wanted to be relegated, wanted to slash the budgets, wanted to see crowds and revenue and morale dwindle away and actually fancy an extended stay in this league must be an idiot.
I may get shot down for this but I think the club do know what their core values are and they are trying to stick by them.
Steve Gibson always stresses COMMUNITY whenever he addresses the nation and whatever else you say about Boro you canâÂÂt say they duck this issue. They run excellent education and inclusion projects for kids on the most deprived estates, kids who have probably been priced out of the game but still love the Boro. They havenâÂÂt been abandoned by the club .
Boro run excellent and inspiring maths projects and coaching schemes in the schools and as a teacher I can tell you that every junior school in Teesside gets invited to learning/coaching sessions at the academy at Eston and also to matches a couple of times a year and senior schools go along to the Willie Maddren Centre at the ground for week long courses in maths and literacy. They have a special emphasis on remedial work with those struggling at school and a commendable record on boosting the self-esteem and results of under achievers.
These things cost the club millions every year. There is no return on it. It isn't glamourous. It isnâÂÂt a revenue stream. It is a generous investment in the wider community that they are not compelled to make and even after relegation it has not been cut back. That makes me proud.
And you canâÂÂt open the Gazette without seeing pictures of the players at some youth centre, hospice or special educational needs school. And they donâÂÂt just turn up for the photo and disappear. According to people I know many of the players stay all day and really get involved. I think there is a league table for these things and we are way out in front at the top. That makes me proud too.
The club have also stuck by the succesful Academy despite the cost cutting across the board and we have another generation of good kids coming through now. Luke Williams in the first team, Pilatos and Gibson winning the Under 17 Euros with England. I hope they get to play in the first team too because local lads help reinforce the links between crowd and team. The Academy is important and even when supporters in recent years have been deriding it the club and Steve Gibson have stressed its strategic importance at every opportunity.
It is easy to knock and feel powerless and frustrated when things are not going well but we need to keep a sense of perspective. The club is not perfect but it is solvent, stable and showing signs of revival. They know what they stand for and stick by their principles. And there are some areas where they try very hard to keep a strong relationship with fans alive and they deserve some credit for that.
Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of Boro In The Community.
**AV writes: Good post. The excellent community and education programmes cost ã9m a year to run and Boro ring-fenced their investment in that when the cost-cutting started and they do indeed deserve much credit for that.
ã9m a year. That is incredible. Even with the Sky money that is a truly fantastic sum of money. I know my Season card and merchandise spend wouldnâÂÂt cover a players wages for a day, but I do like to think that some of it is going to the community pot.
We all think players get paid too much and arenâÂÂt worth the money but if the club is spending more on community projects than it does on the yearly wages of Mido, Riggott, Pogi and several others put together then maybe we are not a total lost cause. I think a bit more info and trumpet blowing of the boroâÂÂs community schemes would make a good blog topic.
It might even get someone back in the clubs good books, nudge nudge, wink, wink
**AV writes: Much of the money comes via grants from national education, training and sporting bodies but the entire machine depends on Boro's willingness to organise, administer, staff and substantially fund the community projects.
Perhaps MFC should give Clive Road a job in the PR dept. That one post has given me a lot of info I didn't know.
See you later Pog! We seem to be letting 3 players out to every 1 coming in. No wonder players have been forced to play with injuries and out of position.
People say we have been unlucky but luck is just opportunity meeting good preparation . I would say we are NOWHERE NEAR prepared enough for another long season in the championship and WILL continue to be unlucky.
When the opposition score and their fans sing"who are ye?' Im not sure we will know and neither will the players with so many leaving. The west brom team that went up was near enough the same team that got em up last time.
We are gonna need to sign 8-10 players to have anything near to being called a squad or team.
Mido and Digard must be returning.....
So Poggy jumps at the chance to leave Boro, but why? He stated he wanted to stay, Strachan stated he wanted to keep him. Hanover is not Real Madrid. So the following questions need to be asked.
Are Boro still cutting back the wage bill? Did Boro really want to keep Poggy, Ali and Riggott or was it just said to appease the fans before the season ticket dealdline?
Once again all that is coming out of the club are negatives. My belief is that Poggy jumped ship because he saw that Boro were highly unlikely to get promoted next season as all that is coming out the club so far is the usual procrastination and Poggy, like the fans, has seen and heard it many times before (ala Gibbo).The club needs a statement of intent by signing a quality player and quickly.
**AV writes: Yes, Boro are still cutting back the wage bill - at least they are actively pruning those still on Premier League wages and using that money to recruit more fitting (and fitter) players on a far lower cost base. They have to.
Strachan wanted to keep Poggi - but not on Premier League wages. The players publicly stated he would to take a pay cut but not one of the order Boro were thinking of. His new deal would have been in a region of ã5k per week - still good money in the Championship - but that is a drop of maybe ã20k a week. Ouch.
The simple fact is that even if he was fully fit - the last two years have been a disaster for him - the club still could not afford to pay top whack for a player who is an above average centre-back/average left-back.
Community schemes are all well and good and seem to be well received by all those involved. However, that does not change my view of the Boro in its current predicament.
A good community scheme it may be but it doesn't seem to get bums on seats, nor does it make our current players better or help to sign a better quality of player or have them managed better.
The only thing that will change my view of the club will be perfomances on the pitch and an idea that the club hiearchy actually know how to run it properly.
Well posted Clive and interesting follow up on the sources of funding by AV. Boro have long been admired for their community work.
I just wish the club hadnt also ring fenced the ability to communicate alongside the money. If the club can intergrate with community projects why does it find it so difficult with fans?
One thing I will say about Clive's post is that it was the clubs own wastefullness and actions culminating in throwing out the entire central midfield to be replace by an injured, French project for the future, Luke Young going to be replaced by Hoyte and the arrival of the man of mystery M&S that hugely contributed to our downfall.
No ones fault but the club's.
On a final note I see that Lambie is asking for patience on transfers, it is difficult to swallow but it wont be easy getting players in. Big Mac looks likely to leave and that will give problems.
But as for the rest, it's just the same sold, same old that's served us so badly for seasons and transfer windows past.
How The Count thinks what Rob rightly describes as 'the usual procrastination' (see his latest outpouring on the MFC site) is going to have folks straining at the leash to get their SC before tomorrow's deadline is beyond me - though that what the 'you might get some jam before the end of August' line is surely intended for.
Deeds not words, for goodness sake, deeds not words.
And deeds on the transfer front aren't just about 'action rhetoric' that will be trusted to convince the key audiences - however important those are.
It's also about the small, very practical matter of actually mounting a credible promotion challenge rather than bemoaning, later, why we can't or haven't been able to.
How many times do we have to go down the line of a significant number of the squad either being unsettled because they don't know if they're going or not and then going at the last minute, previously bought and expensive dead lumber still on the books, targets not coming at all because they're snapped up by someone else or not being available for either a pre-season or even until Boro have played five or six key fixtures because we were waiting for the 'bin ends' before someone owns up that that doesn't work and never has.
It seeems almost as though playing 'the negotiation game' has become an end in itself for our Chief Executive - and where he has his fun and his sway, keeping it as some sort of mysterious 'black box' that only he purports to understand the contents of - and predominates over footballing interests and outcomes.
To papaphrase the oft quoted commentators' statement about MPs, it seems that MFC still just don't get it.
My banner reads, "Sit down and shut up, Mr Lamb."
Great post Clive Road but as GHw says, why doesn't the Boro marketing machine (must be linked to Lamb's fax machine by a cord of some sort) sing from the roof tops about these success stories in the kind of informed way that CR has done? I tell you why. Because they are inept and have no clue.
And that is so very true throughout every level of the club. Poor to little or no effective communication strategy, fans treated like they are not important (until now) and the endless nonsensical rhetoric spouted at SC time does little to influence or sway fans to buy into something that has no cohesive plan.
Blind faith as a core value simply doesn't cut it I'm afraid. I am now going to sit down and shut up because that is what is expected of me.
Neil of the racoon variety -
The problem is that if you treat people like you dont care it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy and fans reciprocate by not going to matches.
I am not surprised by what Lamb said but as in Johns post above what we want is some players in to the club sooner rather than later. If we dont it will be like Muldoons donkey. He had just got it to work without eating when it died.
Sadly we may see headlines about the fit and raring to go Midough and Digsoft being 'just like two new signings'
I think we need to appreciate that purchasing footballers is not necessarily as easy as buying a tin of beans. There is no set price for a player. The two clubs involved have to negotiate to find a happy medium. Not always possible.
The buying club will have a budget to buy several players. They will not blow the entire budget on the first acquisition of the summer and leave them selves with nothing to buy the rest of the wanted players with. Clubs have to find out what sort of prices might be asked so they can spread their transfer budget the furthest/wisest.
The selling club may not want to sell
The player may not want to move.
If the selling club isnâÂÂt in financial trouble they might as well hold on and see if any other clubs are interested. This also gives them time to enquire about a replacement.
And to complaining about other clubs âÂÂnippingâ in is a bit blinkered. Weren't Yeates and Lita wanted by several Championship clubs yet they signed for us. Were fans of Sheffield Utd complaining about their Chief Exec. dithering?
Would you prefer the back page of the Gazette had a story that says âÂÂBoro slap down ã7m bid for the Dundee ThreeâÂÂ
Would Dundee accept it? No chance, they would sit and wait and probably get more for selling them individually. But we would have looked like mugs, been turned down and advertised how much cash we have to spend. Would that meet with approval and get you to buy a season ticket?
Keith doesnâÂÂt tell me how to do my job, so I donâÂÂt think I am qualified to tell him how to do his.
Oh - and by the way - I wonder if Mr. Strachan is now regretting so ostentatiously giving up his World Cup pundit role to concentrate on securing his squad transfer targets etc now that The Count is telling him he needn't have bothered 'cos 'nothing happens now'.
He may not tell me how to run my business but he sure loves telling me how and when to support the club I love and that's far too intrusive and unacceptable for my liking. And all using a condescending, holier-than-thou tone. Just lovely, that. But I will sit down and shut up because as a core value, that's what's expected of me.
BBC Sports News correspondent Dan Roan believes the new manager at Liverpool will have a summer transfer budget of between ã10m and ã15m.
AV, how much do you think GS2 will have in his summer budget? Up to five million -perhaps not that much?
Up the Boro!
**AV writes: I think ã5m would be the absolute tops in terms of cash up front. The key will be "churn", how he uses the the money clawed back in the wage bill and how much is raised through sales.
I don't know whether it's because of the so-called 'globalisation' of the game and saturation media coverage but the days when the only mild interest in the World Cup was because you'd see interesting tactics that you didn't come across in your domestic league, novel free kicks and other set pieces and different styles of play, seem to be long gone.
I didn't expect to see anything new from this year's tournament - but I may yet be proved wrong.
For sentimental reasons, I keep an eye out on what the North Koreans are doing.
It seems that they wanted to register only 2 goalies and use the place for an extra striker.
Some subsection of the arcane FIFA rules says they can't do this, apparently. But they've gone ahead and done it anyway - so now they've got a striker registered as a goalie and have been told that if he plays, it must be in goal!
This has me wondering whether we aren't about to see a tactical revolution with the adoption on the World stage of a tactic beloved of my 'jumpers for goal posts' youth - the rush goalie!
Some teams and custodians have tinkered with this over the years by bringing the gloved one up for the cavalry charge corner in search of a red zone equaliser - but that's just messing around.
I always suspected that North Korean keepers were - like many of their Brazilian counterparts - frustrated outfielders, always last to be chosen in the 'you pick, I pick' playground selection, having seen the lad in Sixty-Six impressively and athletically hitch kick the ball from on the roof of the Ayresome net after a cross had cleared his bar and landed there.
Suddenly, I'm interested again!
Smog -
If you read what I posted, I didn't tell The Count how to do his job. As you say, I'm not qualified.
All I did point out was the undeniable outcomes ('Facts', as dear old Rafa would have it) in recent seasons of him doing his job in the way he's been doing it.
On any judgement by those of us who pay and are paid to observe and on all objective measures of football performance the way transfers have been handled strategically and tactically in recent years has been a repeated failure.
I can't comment on the financial consequences either, I don't know enough too.
Goodness knows, many at the club have said these things too, though the outcome evident to those of us outside looking in has mostly been about repeatedly re-organising the scouting set up - though, largely, never seeing that through properly.
What evidence is there that another cycle of doing the same things in the same way (whatever those are) - as he himself said he was going to do - with less resource and the club a much less attractive prospect than it was to prospective recruits of the right quality is going to bring about success this time round?
As they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And, talking of declaring your hand to the competition and prospective targets and their current employers, isn't that what he's just done?
In any event, there's a straighforward - but not simple - way for The Count to resolve this debate positively, and I'd applaud him for it, loud and long.
That would be for him to do his job and exercise his experience and skills in whatever way he sees best to ensure that by the time the squad re-assemble for pre-season, Strachan has the vast majority of the squad he wants in place with the remainder of those who aren't part of the future gone.
Ideally, the odd finishing touch could then be applied by the season start.
Then it's down to the Manager, his coaches and the players.
Sometimes I think they should broadcast the board meetings as it may well be more exciting than the game it self.
I just donâÂÂt get why itâÂÂs Keith Lambs fault. I will state I am no relation or have ever met the man but find it strange why all our ills are this one mans fault?
Why doesnâÂÂt he get any praise for the good things that have happened to the club over the years? If we want to get really pedantic about things you could say the way he wrapped the Arca, Miller M&S, Mido and Digard deals was brilliant. Was it his fault they were the wrong players at the wrong time?
And IâÂÂll repeat this till I am blue in the face. Buying footballers is not easy. Even with loadsa money Man City still canâÂÂt get who they want. Of course all involved want new recruits in for pre season. But just because we want it doesnâÂÂt mean it will happen. ItâÂÂs a market, and market forces dictate what is possible not our wishes.
At the moment the club will be working hard assessing the market and putting the initial offers in place. I believe we already have bids of over ã3m sitting with other clubs.
Not a bad start.
**AV writes: Keith Lamb is Teesside's very own pantomime villain... and secretly I think he relishes the role.
AV makes a telling point in his reply to Jarko.
The key to any transfer activity may be what we receive from sales. The problem is that other clubs will be patient over moves for our saleable assets in the same way The Count is approaching our targets.
Unless someone identifies a 'must have' to fill a hole in their squad from our players then it is going to be a waiting game.
It may be that we will do well to get a couple in before pre season training. It is crucial to get the spine of the team sorted as quickly as possible. In that situation it would be a keeper, centre half and a minder for our Barry
My one fear is that it will be another vigil at the end of August as maybe Wheats and O'Neill depart too late for us to use the money and it will be back to the remnants box for loans.
But we may well see Bates and McMahon back to add to Midough and Digsoft to give us 'four new signings'.
Oh no he doesnt!
**AV writes: I get the odd complaint. Generally they think I am a stirrer. There is a mindset at the top levels in the club that sees any discussion that strays off message as being the same as outright opposition. They struggle with the concept that the most passionate supporters may support the club but not back every single decision. And criticism, no matter how constructive, is almost always seen as a direct attack. and it is never forgotten. Bizarrely, and in defiance of all objective evidence of our positive coverage, there are people at the club who think that the Gazette are "against" the Boro.
I find this amazing, as I do with some of the foam handers who hate any form of constructive criticism of the club. Without balanced appraisal of our current plight, we cannot come through this and get back to where we were.
Although the arrogance that comes out of the club in the form of ill-conceived comments is breath taking at times. Surely they need everyone with them if they hope to fill the stadium once more!
Does anyone think that Robbie Blake might be able to do a decent job for us in this division? Just released by Burnley, but aparently looking for a two year contract. Could be worth a punt on a free, but two years may be a year too many. Word has it that a North-east club has made an offer.
John Powls, excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is a hitch kick?
Tim from SA. Can you check your spam folder? I sent an email to 'starqt@eci.co.za' last week with a genuine question regarding malaria, but haven't heard anything back as yet.
**AV writes: I think ã5m would be the absolute tops in terms of cash up front. The key will be "churn", how he uses the the money clawed back in the wage bill and how much is raised through sales. "
If we still have half what Liverpool are having for transfers that is really good. And as KL said this summer it is going to be one of the best for clubs adding players! Moreover KL and GS2 were able to supply several new players already in January. So it is going to be exiting summer for incoming transfers at Riverside.
I just hope we will get the first two signings still this or next week to keep the fans exited - but I suppose GS2 might be on holiday now, too. Up the Boro!
Keith Lamb - pantomime villain? Maybe - but also sometime co-author of the panto in which he stars? And playing to type?
I agree he revels in it - as I pointed out earlier, I think that's part of the problem.
Why is it always The Count's fault? Well, he's the CEO. And on transfer 'mechanics' as he and various managers have pointed out, he's the man - viz the question on Radio Brownlee when he was asked 'which numpty did the deal for Alves' and he responded that he was that numpty.
As someone pointed out to me the other day on this particular element of MFC operations, 'managers and scouting set ups have come and gone several times but things are no different. Only Gibbo and The Count remain as the constant throughout and Gibbo, presumably, only has the final approval. So, by process of elimination......'
Sorry for going on, enough's enough on this now - I'm going to follow that ol' wily raccoon and sit down and shut up on this topic and just hope that Mr. Lamb will produce the goods this time at which time I'll certainly give him the credit, as I said.
Billy in Berks -
Robbie Blake could certainly do us a job at this level. He has the cleverness of movement, the touch and the football brain.
At his age and with his recent fitness record, I think you're right on it being one year rather than two - though we could offer an option for another year based on his performance and fitness and see if he's prepared to back himself.
As ever, though, it's where would he fit in the overall package. Despite his speed of thought and the Sherigham-like 'the first yard's advantage is in his head', he has no pace - so we'd need plenty of that elsewhere and we're not blessed at the moment.
If we were going to play 4-3-3, I could see him and McDonald either side of a centre forward.
I've seen somewhere else today that Boro are alleged to be 'monitoring the situation' for Charlton's Nicky Bailey.
I sincerely hope this is hack fantasy stuff to fill a quiet Friday. Returning to a theme from earlier, Bailey is a player who definitely believes his own publicity and his image of himself severely overestimates his actually capability.
I quite like Charlton as a club and would have enjoyed seeing them in the play off final - but I can't pretend that I didn't enjoy Bailey missing the only penalty in the shoot out to sink his side.
Come-uppance well deserved but I don't think it'll curb the ego.
A hitch kick? Well, I suppose it's half a bicycle kick, if you see what I mean.
So the player would jump off his standing foot with his kicking foot leading the leap and carrying through over head height to contact the ball at the highest point. But the trajectory of the ball would be primarily upwards rather than over the shoulder in a bicycle kick.
The player would then land back on his feet rather than on his shoulders and back as in a bicycle kick.
Sorry for the clumsy explanation.
Excellent article AV
I shudder to think about the results of the think tank sessions and how they'd be used inside the club; it's a typical corporate off the shelf activity that says we've lost control, what do we do? I wonder if a firm of consultants has been employed?
There are lots of good ideas in the posts above. Many hit on exactly what successful companies know about marketing in this day and age i.e. excel at what you do and excel in talking about it. It all comes down to reputation and relationships...
Like others I learnt a lot from Clive's post. I've heard Steve Gibson talk about community in the past but I wouldn't have been able to explain to friends what that meant in real terms. The club could inspire pride/passion if we saw or heard more of that activity - even better that fans contribute something towards the ã9m budget through ticket sales.
And by the way, what does the Fan Officer do and do you know where he/she watches games from?
Up the Boro!
Come on England!
Well done, Clive Road (above).
And who is the fitter these days, Poggi, Riggs or Rio? Quarter Finals or Semis, anyone?
As an exile (western Canada), for the past 29 years I still can't get "the Boro", town or team, out of my blood. This is the most pointed article I have read about the relationship between fan, town and club. I follow the team closely, though I have no particular expertise in tactics etcetera. I am appalled by the way the club have treated the fans over the last few years.
My support for the team goes back to 1966 in the holgate end as an eleven year old but I feel fortunate to be viewing the proceedings from a distance, via the Gazette. This is simply because I see no reason to throw good money away on a product that continues to disappiont, as I would be tempted to do if still living in Middlesbrough.
As businessmen, Gibson and Lamb wouldn't follow thier own advice of 'blind faith' so they should not be surprised at losing so many fans when thier assertions prove to be so much hot air. Common sense doesn't seem to be a part of thier business plan as expressed by their qoutes and actions.
MFC would do well to heed your words, AV, because as per usual your column oozes common sense and with no trace of the odour that acompanies the usual proclaimations from the higher ups in the club that we all support.
On another point,I think Gordon Strachan was a very astute appointment and at last the incestuous links between administration, football management and coaching have been broken.
Keep up the good journalism and hold their feet to the fire. They must run out of asbestos socks soon!
BBC report Tony Pulis is going to make a ã4m bid for Wheater who has one year left on his contract.
Would Boro accept such a sum bearing in mind we have allowed Pogi and Riggott to leave? Would Wheater think moving to Stoke was the right move?
I suspect it will provoke firm interest from some of the bigger preniership clubs and that really will test the clubs resolve.
Any mileage in the story Vic?
**AV writes: It is nothing beyond paper talk as yet but I suspect Boro accept such a bid. It would fund a move for Big Mick plus one more defender and probably still be cheaper in wages. If the alternative is Wheats leaving on a free next summer there is very little choice.
Billy did not get email but address correct,
If you want to know if you need jabs no not where you are going. But if its something else please send again and i will try and help.
Stoke boss Tony Pulis is preparing a ã4m bid for Middlesbrough defender David Wheater, who is out of contract at the Riverside at the end of next season. This is the latest rumor. Pulis knows everything about Wheats as they have Huth already.
I hope this is just a rumor. We cannot sold one of our own now after Poggy, Riggs and McManus are gone. Instead we need new defenders. Up the Boro!
AV could you possibly tell us about the hotel which was supposedly set up as a cash cow for MFC to fund future transfers, are we now in a position to be able to see something from this revenue stream or is it still paying back it's building and set-up costs?
Also why is there not a long term vision, as there was with Burnley to charge fans a reasonable rate to fill the stadium and also to reward season ticket holders with the incentive of a ã100 season ticket if they made it to the premiership? Surely this would breed fan loyalty, and encourage many to come back and fork out.
I can't see the sense in charging exorbitant ticket prices and only getting 16,000 on the gate, surely by halving the price and getting 32,000 or near to it, and then getting additional revenue through merchandising, food and beverages etc, would aid the club's recovery?
I hope the wheater story is untrue, but after the Huth/Tuncay affair, i am willing to believe anything when it comes to MFC selling players below their market value...
**AV writes: I don't know enough about hotel occupancy rates/spa prices/wedding/conference golf club green fees etc to comment on the Rockliffe development but our business reporters think it is an impressive and profitable concern. How long it will take to generate a profit I really couldn't say. I have been personally assured that the costs did not come out of funds earmarked for the football operation.
On Wheater, ã4m for a player who could leave for nothing next summer sounds a very good price. What do you think his market value is?
AV
I think you are right about Wheater, a clue will be when the question is posed about the ã4m bid for Wheater.
An answer along the lines of we havent received a bid for so the question is hypothetical. A follow up statement that even if we had received a bid ã4m would not reach our valuation would have managers ears pricking up.
So get Uncle Eric a packet of jaffa cakes and send him off to the Riverside to pose the question.
AV:
In your reply to Cheekyget at 11:37AM you said, "I have been personally assured that the costs did not come out of funds earmarked for the football operation."
That just sounds like political spin by your club source! Even Alastair Campbell would have been proud of THAT!
I guess I could afford a couple of Aston Martins outright if I sell my house!
It all comes out of the same pot. If Gibson chooses to spend ãXM on Rockliffe Park instead of increasing the allocated MFC Budget by ãXM, THAT is a strategic business decision. Politically, it enables Gibson to say that it's an investment that will help financially support MFC in future.
What he fails to point out however, is that in allocating resources to its development, probably disadvantages MFC in the short term - possibly to the extent of getting relegated - which I'm sure wasn't planned or intended, by the way, but it happened!
He also fails to say how long it will take to become cash positive, what the projected excesses may be and to what extent such funds WILL be used to support Boro. But you will never get anyone to so commit. Because they don't know what circumstances they'll meet along the way.
Just like when they allocated/raised funding for Rockliffe Park, they probably didn't reckon on an economic recession as deep and as long as the one we've had/are in and what lousy "investments" the likes of Alves, Emnes, Digard and Mido would prove to be.
What Rockliffe Park DOES do however, is increase the capital worth (indirectly) of Steve Gibson!
I'm not saying that any of this is wrong. But I'm sick of listening to people say that everything Steve Gibson does is for the good of Boro the football club, when that is patently NOT the case - evidenced by the publicly witnessed decline.
What Gibson does is for the good of the owner. His businesses, including MFC, are merely vehicles for that. And it'll be the same for every single chairman/ owner of a professional football club throughout the length and breadth of the country, just as it is for all other for-profit businesses.
As I say, not wrong, but let's recognise business when it's business. Somehow, people manage to paint Lamb as Beelzebub and Gibson as Archangel Gabriel when in fact they're on the same team! I find this astonishing!
**AV writes: It is not spin from unnamed sources. In a rare moment of detente a year or so ago myself and Eric met with Gibson and Lamb to clarify some of the issues raised by the financial position of the club to give us some background and some figures and a bit of context for the sales that were imminent. We were encouraged to ask questions and assured the answers would be full and frank. I have no reason from subsequent events to belief that was not the case.
One of the questions I asked was about the impact of the hotel/golf development, its position in the Bulkhaul empire and its relationship to the football club and backed by a flip chart diagram of the corporate structure it was stressed that the funding was not coming from "the same pot" within Bulkhaul at all (ie from funds that 'could' have been diverted into the football side) but was from the personal investments of the directors. The development is funded by new money, externally sourced, seperate from the structure that includes the club.
It would be wrong to assume that if the hotel hadn't gone ahead that somehow those individuals' private money - not Bulkhaul's - would have been spent on players. It wouldn't. Strategic decisions to cut back costs and move to a new sustainable model were taken long ago (besides, it is unreasonable - crazy - for fans to believe Gibbo's every private penny should be poured relentless into the club. He - and the club - would be broke very quickly that way.)
To answer your question AV, considerably more from a player that was not long ago tipped as a future england stalwart.
As ever mismanagement at the club has let a contract tick down, as it did with Johnson, and ultimately, force our hand in terms of selling price. Surely this is the count's fault, as CEO he negotiates new contracts?
Why do we constantly suffer from a short-sighted business vision which fails to plan for the future, which includes tying up contract extentions and getting ticket pricing right, so as to not alienate half your potential market??
**AV writes: It should not be our default setting to assume the club are at fault. More often it is the players setting the agenda as they try to keep their options open and get the best possible deal for themselves, either here or elsewhere, and you can't really blame them for that. For them it is just a job.
With Johnson for instance the club repeatedly made ever more generous offers of a new deal for the two years before he left but he had long ago decided to leave. Had he signed the last one offered he would have been by far the best paid player in the club and got a massive signing on fee.
He had decided that no matter what was offered he would decline and leave on a free. Ditto Schwarzer, Viduka, Zenden and a host of others whose departure the club (and usually Keith lamb) routinely get slated for. The club are at fault on a lot of things but you can't really blame them for that.
Besides, keeping players in this situation so often means just pouring more and more money on the table and Boro are not that kind of club any more. that's how they got into the situation in the first place. No one would serious suggest that the club just keep on offering existing players - or transfer targets - more and more money until a player cracks and says 'yes.'
Meanwhile, Wheater is doing the mandatory "need to think about my future" "see if the club's ambitions match my own" dance as we speak. If he does not sign the new deal he has been offered what can the club do? And if there is the risk he will walk away on a free are they not duty bound to look to maximise their return?
AV -
I agree with your response to cheekyget.
We also have to remember that even in the glory years players would come to the Riverside to rebuild their careers or for big pay days.
The academy has brought players through who want to do well in their careers. We would have sold our souls to run out just once for the Boro but that is the default position for the locals in the squad. Once established there next aim is probably to do the best they can for the club and themselves.
That will may then involve moving on to anothet club to develop their careers. Most of us would do the same in our own careers and they are no different.
If we were still in the premiership, jinky was in the England squad and Wheater getting call ups then the situation could be different.
But we are in the Championship so have taken profit out of Downing and Johnson. We may well do the same from Wheater. That is only Lamb doing his job as it was with others who wanted to move on because we couldnt offer them what they wanted.
Why we are in the Championship is another matter altogether and Lamb is fully entitled to his fair share of pain for that.
AV
Your 'AV writes' in response to cheekyget at 8:43 re Wheater is right on the mark. The issue - if he goes - is about maximising the return, as you say.
Another season (or part season) as unimpressive as the one he's just had might also risk the value you could get in January too.
If the fee and the wage headroom got us McManus, the improver from Rochdale and, maybe, part way to another experienced centre-back to give us a decent four to choose two from (with Jon Grounds - who I take it still hasn't signed either?) then that would be a good deal, I think.
But that's the big 'if'.
And it still leaves us looking for a holding/box-to-box athlete central midfielder, at least one striker and a first choice goalkeeper.
**AV writes: "it is unreasonable - crazy - for fans to believe Gibbo's every private penny should be poured relentless into the club"
I could not agree more strongly with AV on this point.
Essentially, Richard along with countless other Boro fans seems to think that Mr Gibson should pour every last penny of HIS hard earned cash into YOUR team!
For years our generous Chairman has topped up the clubs income from TV & season ticket sales, with millions of pounds of his own cash. This allowed us to punch above our weight & sign players who were financially out of reach of the majority of clubs, who were operating without that additional income.
Nowadays, the sugar daddy is no longer a rare beast & the likes of Villa, Sunderland & Spurs are now spending well in excess of their traditional income stream, thanks to their own wealthy benefactors.
Let me ask Richard & the other fans who agree with his theory that Mr Gibson should use all his available income for the good of the club, a question. Have you bought a season ticket for every Boro supporting member of your household & furnished your kids in the latest strip (home & away) from the club shop ? No ? Why not ? Surely you SHOULD do all of the above, as it will enable the club to sign a better standard of player this summer.
I think you should all spend your wages in the club shop, as it will benefit the club in the long run. Of course, I'm not sure I really have any right to tell anyone how to spend their own cash. For some bizarre reason, a great number of Boro fans think that they have the right to tell Mr Gibson how to spend HIS cash.
It seems that no-one can tell the fans how to spend their cash, primarily because they don't have a lot of it. If of course, you have a lot of money like Mr Gibson, the rules are suddenly changed & that money suddenly becomes the property of everyone on Teesside - Incredible !
I will hazard a guess at the popular response. Not necessarily from Richard, but of countless other fans who currently shun a trip to the Riverside every other Saturday. You refuse to purchase a season ticket & watch "overpaid, under performing players give less than 100% effort for the side". Well, how the hell do you think the Chairman feels ?
We are throwing ã500 at these players, while he is doing the same with millions. Imagine watching the likes of Mido sign a lucrative long term contract & pocket a massive signing on fee. Then with the ink on that contract barely dry, pronounce that he intends to show zero effort to earn any of that ridiculously generous weekly wage, which you are currently subsidizing. Would that encourage you to top up the transfer fund from your own pocket during the xmas transfer window ? No, thought not !
Personally, I work away regularly, so a season ticket would not be financially viable for me. I would miss more home games than I would be able to attend, so essentially, I would be throwing away my own cash for the good of the club. I refuse to do that as it would make no sense.
I have the right to pick & choose when I add cash to the coffers of the club, which is surely something I have in common with our Chairman.
Let's have a third attempt at sending a post - otherwise there might be a fault at my end.
Surely selling Wheater this summer would inevitably be seen as an admission by the club that it does not expect promotion next season (because if promotion were achieved, the main reason for selling would disappear as the Premier League loot started to roll in again in the following year). It would also risk ã50M (or whatever is the accepted current value of a Premier League place) at risk for ã4M.
No better odds now than when we got ã6M for Huth at a time the defence was looking impregnable. And afterwards the regularly changing personnel at centre back must have played a major role in Wheater's less than assured performances for the next few months.
I guess it would only make sense if we had NAILED ON purchases already signed up and if they could be guarranteed to settle in etc. Remember how everyone was full of hope and expectation when SSL joined us on a "loan turns into purchase deal" last season (except that, thank goodness, it didn't). If we can get McManus back, together with Wheater they'd have to be the best partnership in the Championship next season, surely?
It doesn't make sense to go into next season, when we need to go up, taking a gamble with weaker players, less committed ones, than we have at present. Isn't the sensible course to start the season with Wheats and the best squad we can muster, in the hope that at Christmas we will be in a promotion position? We wouldn't want to sell then, would we? We'd want to go up!
Of course if half way through the season we were in the same position we were in for 2009/10 (ie stuck in mid-table with no realistic prospect of going up), we could sell for what we could get in the winter transfer window, rather like we did with Adam Johnson. Of course, by that stage revolution would be in the air, with eight men and a dog in the West Stand etc.
Bringing in new players is always a bit of a gamble. You'd hope good research would reduce the risk somewhat, to make it more of an educated guess than a wild stab in the dark, but keen students of Boro's recent transfer policy might have a different view.
But here's my guess - sell Wheater (let's say to Everton) and in a year or 18 months Wheats will have improved markedly and be back in contention for an England place at what will still be a fairly young age for a centre back. Something to do with coaching. And when do we realistically expect to have our NEXT England international after that, and how much would it cost if we could afford the outlay?
And, most importantly, if the sale of Wheats is seen as an admission the club is going nowhere, how many season tickets/cards do we expect to be sold not for the forthcoming season, but the one after that when the cost of these decisions comes home to roost?
We will have a wonderful easily located hospitality/seminar convention centre with a nice view onto a patch of well tended turf, near to the centre of the town. But the oncome from the wedding conventions and the corporate training seminars, and their attendances will dwarf the football attendances for the fortnightly matches.
I suppose the good news is that the seminars can take place throughout the year, and for maybe 200 days a year rather than 23 Saturdays or weekday evenings. No need for Police or Stewarding as seminar attendees tend not to be a threat to public order. On reflection that might be the better business model if you wanted to make money, than pouring coin into the greedy black hole that is currently football.
The BBC report that Australia do not expect Brad Jones to return to the World Cup finals after the Middlesbrough goalkeeper went home to deal with a serious family illness.
"We decided to let him go to his family and let him stay there as long as he likes," said coach Pim Verbeek. "We expect him not to come back."
I fee really sorry for Jones. I hope his family member will be OK. There are more important things in life than football after all. We should always remember that. All the best, Brad!
The David Wheater situation is quite difficult now that we are still in the second tier. I can imagine him wanting to play at the highest level and also wanting to play at Boro. All we can offer him is a change to get promoted with Boro.
But if we do not get promoted next May - which won't be easy or sure by any means - we can promise to let him go, of course. But isn't the situation the same as now from David's point of view? We could offer hin a year or two more on PL wages and if not promoted we could promise a transfer to the PL. But will he take it? I wouldn't most probably. A real dilemma I see.
Up the Boro!
Wheater could be tempted to go to Stoke and renew his partnership with Huth which was a very good pairing for us and his best partner but if they a oppening at 4 mil we should get at least 5 mil hoping that other clubs up the bidding.
That being said we would be extremly short at the back and all the money would have to be spent for replacing.
Rather than shoring up the midfield and getting a new striker.
John
There is a salutary lesson on player depreciation from here in the East Midlands.
When Derby were relegated from the premiership premiership some time ago they refused bids of ã8m each for Poom and Riggott and a good offer for Christie during the August window.
During the following Jan window we bought Christies and Riggott for less than half the Riggott valuation. Poom went for a song at the same time. They just depreciated because Derby were a struggling second tier team.
ã5-6m million for Wheater may be as good as we will get. There is no certainty of promotion or Wheater reaching the top tier of performance in the near future.
A bidding war between a couple of prem clubs may be in our best interests. The only issue is whether clubs may perceive better value from abroad in terms of bangs for bucks - fees and wages.
It is all academic at the moment but hopefully someone from Gazette Towers will pose the question to the club I suggested earlier. On that subject, maybe Comrade Vickers might be better than Uncle Eric because he might provoke a snearing, Pavlovian response whereas they may be too nice to upset Eric. Over to you AV.
On topic, close to the 100 but I hold out little hope because GHW is lurking in the virtual undergrowth.
Boro are allegedly linked with ex-Hearts Portuguese free agent central defender Goncalves who Strachan wants on trial - that would, presumably, have to be after the squad are back towards the end of the month.
I don't think so.
Not big enough - just 6 foot.
Trouble - see his refuesnik antics with 'argument in an empty room' Jim Jeffries at Hearts.
Missed the news about Brad Jones leaving the World Cup.
Like many I wish him and his family all the best in the next few weeks.
Dropping a cross is so much less important than family matters. Maybe it is a lesson for us put the plight of our football club into true perspective.
I'm not a big fan of mission statements or defining 'core values', companies can spend too much time focusing on such things rather than concentrating their energy on what they do. As for a football club asking the fans what they want? Blimey, its simple isn't it? We want a winning team.
The Wheater situation is interesting, Strachan says he wants to pair Wheater with McManus, but he said he wanted Poggi and Riggot to stay didn't he? If a club is planning on making a ã4m bid for Wheater as an opening offer then presumably he could be sold for ã5m.
He isn't going to sign a new contract at the moment as Boro can't afford to offer him something better than he's currently on, so the risk is do Boro keep him in anticipation of being promoted and him then deciding to sign back on or do we cash in now. Put another ã5m in the transfer pot and reduce the wage bill by ã20k per week? Given his form over the past two years it's an easy decision isn't it, sell him now.
Jarrko - I skimmed through all the posts but one of yours stood out, you mention that Boro having half the transfer funds available that Liverpool have must be a good thing, I admire your optimism. However I would argue being compared to Liverpool is not a good place to be at the moment. Liverpool are in (terminal?) decline, massively in debt and surely about to loose Torres, Gerrard, Reina and any other Champions league quality player they have. That will turn them into an average premiership side next season with debts they cant service, we may be watching another Leeds develop.
Man Utd also have huge debts which may mean Fergie cant buy much and again that could lead to decline. We are in the middle of the worst economic catastrophy since the 30's and the pain and consequences of that have not fully hit home yet, football is not immune, I wouldn't be surprised if a major premiership club suffers a catastrophic collapse and unlike the banks there'll be no bail out.
It may also be true that when Steve Gibson took the decision to cut costs within MFC that he was slightly ahead of the curve, time will tell, if that proves to be true the club will prosper again.
Twice last night I tried to post on this thread, and the messages disappeared. I tried a third time. Now, come on, mate! I can believe that three times I failed, but I can't believe no-one else has sent a post since lunchtime yesterday.
The suspicion grows that AV is somewhere over Africa at 35,000 feet, in the club class seats with a glass of something bubbly winking at him as he hits the canapes. He SHALL go to the Ball! On his way to the World Cup after all.
Trinty Mirror's coffers opened wide in the interests of its dear readers, and the need to keep them informed. Some colour pieces, maybe a hint of humour, possibly a suspicion of intrigue as our local hack becomes the nation's investigative football spy. This is a different sort of football journalism than we expect from the nationals.
No doubt we'll get his next post from Jo'burg.
(Or he could have been on a day trip to Skegness).
I have been on holiday for a week and before I went we aere linked to a fair few players.
Have Boro bought anyone yet?
C'Mon Boro!
I have just watched your "Talking Boro" clips AV. Who's bright idea was it to make them in a busy restaurant or cafe?
Is the blog broken AV? I need my daily fix man... I'm rattling... So cold...
....or you might have been kidnapped by aliens. No point going to the Boro, though, in expectation the club might put together the ransom.
Come on Vic, just because everything Boro wise is quiet, it's no reason for you not starting a new blog.
It what most of us look forward to.
So pull your finger out please.
Very disappointing news from the club is that less than 8,000 season tickets have so far been sold for next season.
It seems that its back to the bad old days from now on unless Gordon gets his finger out and signs some quality players.
Of course there is little joy to be had in being the first to get to Post 1000 if:
(a) We don't know whether the thread is dead or in suspended animation
(b) We can't see any new posts so don't know whether our hard work is disppearing into the ether
(c) We have no idea where we are up to in terms of numbers.
Of course the other way around this problem would be for Trinity Mirror to pay its internet bill.
....Or maybe he has gone off to train as the new Red Adair. There is apparently a very lucrative opportunity to be had in the Gulf of Mexico, and if he could sort that job out he'd never have to worry about doing his own home decorating again.
Mind you, he might have said he was going.....
AV on holiday in Roma (?) and no signings by Boro. How boring except the World Cup starts in an hours time.
See you after the World Cup - is it so? Up the Boro!
Do we share the same values if, rather than England winning the World Cup, we would rather sell our souls in return for the Boro being promoted in the coming season?
It is Sunday. Would it be appropriate to pray for the safe return of our scribe from his unannounced absence?
**AV writes: The power of prayer....
latest rumour from glasgow
MIDDLESBROUGH have re-entered the race to sign Rangers striker Kris Boyd.
Record Sport can reveal that Riverside boss Gordon Strachan - one of the first managers to make a move for Boyd back in January when the striker's Ibrox contract was running down - has suddenly returned to the table in a bid to strike a late deal.
Boyd has spent the last month weighing up a variety of alternative offers but with a ã50,000-a-week deal waiting for him in Turkey the prolific Scotland striker looked certain to be playing his football abroad.
However, Strachan's 11th-hour intervention could yet tempt Boyd into turning his back on that megabucks deal with Kayserispor as the former Celtic boss is prepared to set aside wages of around ã30,000 a week for the prolific poacher.
Strachan - who has put together a similar wage package for Boyd's Ibrox team-mate Kevin Thomson - believes a front pairing of Boyd and former Parkhead top scorer Scott McDonald would blast the rest of the Championship away as he attempts to lead Boro back into England's top flight.
The move to capture Thomson from Rangers is expected to gather pace this week when the 25-year-old returns from a family holiday in Cyprus.
Hello All,
I thing the big man is back from Italy so for your ease of reference AV here is my World cup round up. I doubt, you have seen any of the football as you were in Rome and I donâÂÂt think they like the good game over there.
Game 1, ok
Game 2, Crup
Game 3, middling
Game 4, alright
Game 5 , The usual
Game 6, appalling
Game 7, ok
Game 8, Wunderbar
Right thatâÂÂs you up to speed, can you now please fill the ether with Boro transfer bonanza?
Perhaps we could sign Robert Green as our new keeper presumably he'll be going cheap now!
How was Rome AV and more to the point how was a week without the laptop!
**AV writes: Rome was great... being without the lappy was a struggle but I got through it.
Forever Dormo
That was flagrant abuse of the posting system and I am only too pleased you appeared to miss the 100.
One thing about the palid performance in South Africa was how good Jinky Johnson came out of it. SWP and Lennon are excellant wingers apart from their crossing, passing and shooting. John Powls describes Lennon as like a terrier on a beach chasing a ball that is too big for him, same can be applied to SWP.
Forever Dormo said:
"Do we share the same values if, rather than England winning the World Cup, we would rather sell our souls in return for the Boro being promoted in the coming season?"
No game. It's Boro for me (but this was easy as I'm not English).
Up the Boro! Nice that the blog is live again.
AV, who was number 100?
That's the most interesting happening at Boro at the moment I am afraid. But of course all the managers and chairmen are on holiday or home clued to the TV...
Up the Boro!
Matt at 2:11PM on June 6:
You said, "Essentially, Richard along with countless other Boro fans seems to think that Mr Gibson should pour every last penny of HIS hard earned cash into YOUR team!"
If you had followed and understood the threads of many of my posts here and in contributions to Boro Banter over the past two-three years Matt, you would (hopefully) be less hasty in drawing such an utterly ludicrous conclusion.
But, given that for you to have done so is a completely implausible and unreasonable expectation, in my own defence, let me assure you that I'm reasonably well qualified to understand the essentials of business success and survival and therefore fully understand the impracticality of what you are assuming and reading into AV's response to my post, is my position on this matter.
My position is neither that which is being suggested, nor is it as naively simple. That others choose to misrepresent it is the only reason I have responded.
Addressing another matter in your post, Matt:
It's Steve Gibson's team. Not MINE. Not YOURS. Not "THE TOWN'S". And particularly not STOCKTON'S - even according to Gibson himself (to exemplify one of my points of contention)!
It IS a commercial entity and is therefore, by necessity, being operated as such. It's at THAT interface that confusion and abrasion arises between the Steve Gibsons and the Joe Bloggses of this world.
However, if Steve Gibson and his appointees were more adept at certain aspects of running that commercial enterprise, the present disaffections, frequently expressed by the blog author and regular contributors would not be so acutely felt and Mr Gibson's business would perhaps have greater customer season card retention than is being suggested elsewhere to be the case!
I would be among the first to acknowledge that without Gibson's commitment to Middlesbrough Football Club, it would have been substantially less likely to have enjoyed the growth successes from 1986 to 2006. That however, does not put him above criticism or question.
My "crime" is to point out the investment choices he's likely to have had and to suggest that this may have led to under-funding and other mismanagement of MFC relative to what was required to maintain Premier League status.
Other than the general inflationary drift of the Premier League away from what Boro can afford, which I have also blogged to death and which has been refuted by many posters here despite all the accrued evidence, I can then identify two scenarios, neither of which paint Gibson in a particularly beneficial light. Because one would suggest disingenuity towards the supporters and the other, incompetence. And I'd point out that they aren't mutually exclusive.
But, hey! We had 20 decent years! So let's just forego the future and wallow in the memories of the past, why not? Well Matt, YOU can if you want, but I'm not attracted by the sloppy seconds of the Championship!
Finally Matt, as far as supporting the club is concerned, when I could afford it and considered it a worthwhile cause, I carried two season cards for a few seasons - because I could afford it, because I wanted to be able to invite friends, relatives and visitors to a top-quality league football spectacle.
I wanted to support the continuing Premier League ambition.
I and many others were not only let down, we were implicitly and then explicitly insulted when Gibson had his "Ratner moments".