Stung: Dismal Draw Punctures Play-Off Prospect
WATFORD were fourth bottom and had lost three out of four at home but Boro - who needed to win to keep the season alive - couldn't beat them. Boro had two shots on target and until Leroy Lita came on they had nothing up front.
Boro have not won away in six - since Adam Johnson left - and have not kept a clean sheet on the road since Gordon Strachan took over. They lack a creative force, pace or cutting edge going forward and for all the added steel of McManus and the departure of erratic Sean St Ledger they still can not withstand sustained pressure. The end result is far too many disappointing draws against the dead men.
And that is why Boro are not going to feature in the play-offs.
The "strugglers" were faster, stronger, more direct and in Tom Cleverley had the best player on the pitch. When they had their spells of possession they always looked dangerous and piled on the pressure with corners and free-kicks and for long spells it was all hands to the pumps in the Boro box.
Boro in contrast looked laboured, flat and one dimensional when they had the ball and their own attacks petered out quickly. They lacked width and pace and with two big lads up front in the first helf there was little variety as big balls were humped forward but would not stick.
Boro had isolated spells of pressure but rarely troubled the keeper until Lita exploded into the game with good chances either side of his goal. His pace offered an outlet on the floor and he linked up well with a revitalised Gary O'Neil and suddenly Boro looked dangerous but then after a 10 minute period of belief and hunger they slipped back into a coma and left Watford to dominate.
Boro were woeful in the first half. They didn't have an effort on target or a single corner and the defence looked shaky with Jones having a wobble or two and suddenly looking nervous again while both full-backs struggled with Watford's pace.
After the break Boro improved: they started brightly, there was a bit more tempo and bite in the tackle and Robson, O'Neil and Arca started to get forward more.., but it was still Watford who looked hungrier and more coherent as a unit.
At least Boro clawed the goal back and gave a veneer of respectability to what was otherwise a very poor display by a side who appear to have given up the play-off ghost.
As they warmed up before the game the Cardiff match was playing out to a damning conclusion on the big screen and it is hard to believe the reality of the result did not have an impact. The win for the Dragon Botherers lifted them nine points clear with a game in hand. What had been a steep slope became a sheer cliff face and this is a team who do not have a head for heights or the equipment for such an ascent.
People - the players, the gaffer - will talk about mathematical possibilities, albeit with little conviction but Boro now need a miracle. Cardiff are out of sight now. Leicester and Swansea are just about catchable but Boro would need to start winning away games quickly - including at West Brom and Leicester - to have any hope at all and then still hope that all their rivals blow up too. There is an air of inevitability about it all now.
But let's look at the positives... Boro didn't lose; McManus was excellent again (although the transformed situation at Celtic may mean it is harder to pencil him in for next season); Lita looks interested again and could still catch Johnson for the top scorer gong; the 1,100 fans were once again fantastic; there were no more injuries.
Still, there's always next year...
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Anthony Vickers
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Let's be honest, if this mob of players got promoted to the "big league" it would have been another ride to oblivion on the Riverside roller-coaster.
Strachan is in mid-build crisis, and ok if we had snuck into and even managed a win in the play-offs, the mini cup final atmospere may have provided enough euphoria to generate hope BUT we are NOT good enough at this level, end of!
Let's hope that wheels are turning cogs to get the type of players we need to make a mark on the top two spots next season.
2009-2010 is a write off, so are half of our squad. The off season will be very interesting, in the sense that we need ten new players. Ironically, maybe the coming and going of personell will hopefully have more entertainment value than we have seen on the pitch.
Please Gibbo get somebody dynamic in to do the negotiating otherwise Lamb will be lucky to dry the ink on a couple of contracts.
A big positive is that Strachan has a good eye for players, Robson and McManus are quality and a fit MacDonald will rip this division apart, the lad has superb movement alied to work rate and guile.
There is enough signs that next year will be a good year!
There you go Bororitis strikes again!!!!
Strachan was a mistake let's see if Steve will bite the bullet and get rid.
Shot from outside the box into the bottom left hand corner. I use the BBC on line match report and this has described the goal against Boro past 3 games.
Onward and upward to next season and making the play offs.
Well fingers crossed big time.
AV the present squad and starting XI is hamstrung. There is no width, there is only a smattering of pace and yesterday due to necessity players are not playing in their natural positions. This is never going to lead to a team that functions properly, that is able to impose it self on games, let alone on away games where the home team is fighting for its life.
L L L Leroy Lita should start. A forward line of Killen and Miller, is not going to worry defences. The physical presence and aerial ability is needed especially in this division but not with both of your forwards. You need some one looking to get behind the defence and give them something to think about .
Strachan’s not daft, he knows this as he has bought MacDonald and started Alliadiere when fit. Just strange that he keeps Lita as a sub, but if he scores when he comes off the bench as at Derby and Watford then may WGS is right after all.
The play offs went pear shaped after we got beat at Blackpool, a point that night might have changed things, and we weren’t a million miles away from getting it. If a team is to break into the play off spots my money would be on Blackpool, and if they do I hope they win it.
Back to the boro we need major surgery over the summer, I think Strachan has done the hard work in transforming a ‘soft’ boro side into one that his hard to beat, albeit difficult to watch at times.
Craft certainly has to be added to the graft but we may need 7-8 players in the summer. Is this possible? Can they all bed in during pre season? Of the players that started yesterday how many will be here on the first day of next season?
Hoyte? Robson, Williams, Miller. Scary thought.
And again it must be mentioned terrific support .
"And that is why Boro are not going to feature in the play-offs."
I am still extremely confident that we will easily win our last 6 games and take our rightful place in the playoffs and am fully convinced that Gordon will steer us to inevitable success and glory.
**AV writes: I'd be delighted if you are right. Staggered, but delighted.
I am a bit embarrassed today because yesterday I texted some friends with a half-time match report and raised the question of why Strachan had gone into this match (that we surely needed to win) with only Killen up front! OK, I was wrong, but I did watch the match, honest, I did!
After half-time, with Boro attacking our fans' end, I suddenly noticed No 18 on the pitch and was scratching my head as to who had gone off. Then, when Lita was brought on, I saw Miller going off and thought, "That's odd. He's only been on for ten minutes." Then the penny dropped: he'd been on for around 60 minutes!
I have been a bit of a plonker, sure, but it does go to show that Killen and Miller are so similar that playing them together makes very little sense. (I must have been confusing the two for all the first half! 18 and 12 do look similar as well from the other end of the pitch, he said, still trying to find excuses!)
Killen, of course, can control the ball and hold it up better, and can direct it to our players with his flick-ons, but surely your strikers should offer something different (more than the fact that one of them can't control the ball or direct flick-ons!)?
Anyway, we will almost certainly have one of them with us next year!!
On tuesday we were clueless until Lita, Naughton and Franks came on and chances were created so today at Watford I looked forward to seeing the team that finished would start today - but no, all three on the bench and we were subjected to the same uninspiring football with the first half bringing us no corners and no shots on target.
Killen and Miller are never going to produce anything together the introduction of Lita immediately brought a positive response and a goal. Why then did we not go all out to win after that? Arca looked like he was suffering the after effects of his illness,he should have been replaced by Franks and we should have used his pace to get at the Watford defence.
Did Strachan actually want to win the game? At this stage of the season nothing less than three points is any good,a draw may as well have been a defeat.
Its all been said before !!!
AV - Yup. Boro were second best in a fourth rate contest.
You can add to all you've said that, after two decent games, it took one slip early on to plunge Brad Jones back to the worst of his game. His decision making, careering out of his goal and - particularly - his distribution, kicking out of hand and off the floor were dreadful.
And why, with Strachan having the best choice of players to pick from in weeks, did the Boro Boss have Robson square pegged on the right and the awful Arca an the left robbing Boro of any pace and width?
And why start with Miller - even worse than Arca - and Killen up front with Lita and Franks on the bench?
I think the answer to both of the above is that Strachan had decided that the usually poor Vicarage Road pitch meant that Boro couldn't play through the midfield, so the tactic was to miss out the midfield and just lump it up front.
It took about ten minutes to figure out that - apart from being a bit greasy from a shower or two - the pitch wasn't that bad and that whatever tactic he was trying wasn't working. But it took until half time to change it.
Then, when Boro got level and almost ahead with two Lita/O'Neil efforts did the Boro Boss not get Jon Franks or O'Shea - or both - on to give some pace and width and push on for a win in a game where nothing less would do?
Jon Franks eventually got about five minutes - most of which he spent on the sidelines with a cut on his head and changing his kit - whilst the game drifted to stalemate and Boro drifted backwards to defend yet more set pieces.
Dreadful.
A.V. wrote: and have not kept a clean sheet since Gordon Strachan took over. Did you mean just in away games ? I thought we drew 0-0 with Bristol City at home.
Grim result yesterday. Lita should have started the game, however, his current streak of 'supersub' seems to be maintained.
I agree, the change in situation at Celtic will probably mean the chance of getting Big Mick in permamently will diminish quickly. I noticed on the Sky 'fans' interviews in the week, they were all wanting Robson back too, which I presume will not be as easy as getting McManus back.
To be honest, I think with the amount of upheaval and turmoil the Club have gone through this season we are probably very lucky to be in the league position we find ourselves.
Considering we haven't won away since Johnson left and GS signed O'Shea on loan, it amazed me that O'Shea didn't start.
I wasnt his biggest fan but think we would have won that under Southgate. He'd have played Lita with Franks or Emnes and we'd have had somethinggoing forward instead of stagnating and waiting for them to score.
There is no evidence we are getting better under Strachan. Where is this new hard to beat team of 'men'? Is it the same one that haven't won away since january? The one that has won one in six (and that in a game where they were absolutely woeful) The one behind Blackpool and Doncaster?
People keep telling me he will get it right. When? He was brought in because Gibbo thought Southgate wouldn't get us up and couldn't beat the team above us. Under Strachan we can't beat the teams below us!
We have gone backwards.
Woeful first half against a very weak team. Killen and Miller should never play together again, not in a game we want to win. There was a 20 minute spell when Lita came on and we looked lively but that soon fizzled out.
After we got the goal we settled for the draw. That's a disgrace when we "could" still make the play-offs, especially when we keep getting told that Strachan has brought in players with a "winning mentality." Drawing mentality more like.
Afterwards I heard Strachan moaning about the pitch and how it made it impossible to pass the ball. It didn't stop Watford. Or Boro after Lita came on. Excuses. Excuses.
Like everybody else I am prepared to give Strachan the benefit of the doubt until next season when I assume he will have drafted his own players in, stamped his philosophy on the team, such as the mantra of concentration, work rate and ball retention, all undeniably important football qualities.
What he has achieved to date is that we are harder to beat,something not to be quickly forgotten when we had a soft underbelly and a lack of mental fortitude for nearly three seasons under Southgate.
However, he has to be careful that he does not leave the supporters continually scratching their heads over his decision making, tactics and team selection.
We know that a major team rebulding exercise is a given, starting from the goalkeepers through to the forward line.
The performance of the team consistently represents the stage of transition that we are at and will remain so until the end of the season. There is not a settled, stable look to our team. We do not have an indentifiable team pattern of play, in truth, we are not a coherent team.
When and how many times have time we played fluent football from back to front? Newcastle match?
Two slowish target men up front. Four central midfield players behind them, the two most short of pace playing on the flanks. It is not hard to fathom why we had no threat on the opposition goal until Lita came on.
I dont understand the team selection and tactics nor do I understand why we never actually try to play on the front foot away from home particularly when a draw was of no earthly use.
Its all been said before as Sandy above posted. The problem now is that monotony is setting in amonst the few remaining fans as confidence in Strachan diminishes rapidly.
Gibbo, Lamb and Bauser are going to have their work cut out over the next few months to salvage the remnants of MFC. Season Cards, Blind faith, Dodgy "off the shelf" Sunday league kits not to mention a manager who looks inept and out of his depth at this level.
MFC are going to have to look inwardly at themselves, swallow huge portions of Humble Pie (unlikely), if they are to retain some modicum of a fanbase for next season.
It's amazing how folks appear out of nowhere to join in the mass cyber-slaughtering of Boro. Many feel incomplete if they can't actively destroy anything before it gets a chance to get off the ground. Are we Celtic fans in disguise?
Even when things are going well there always seems to be an undercurrent of overtly negative folks that appear more passionate about sticking the knife in than adopting a balanced view of things that sees good as well as bit of indifference or criticism (where it's due) in most things.
I think it's sad that so many want to jump on this saddo bandwagon simply because it's the done thing for Boro fans to do.
I'm just so glad I have the ability to balance my judgement with a level of critical objectivity as well as an optimistic outlook that helps me through life generally. Folks, nothing's perfect in life and if you take a dim view of things all the time, even if it's just your local football team, it certainly can be very damaging.
Consequently, how some folks can live with themselves and how others can stand being around them with such overly negative and Boro-destructive values is a complete mystery to me.
Excessive pessimism is not only bad for your soul, but your health too:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7532964/Staying-optimistic-keeps-you-healthy.html
This season was always going to be a season of regrouping and rebuilding. If you don't have the patience to accept the pace of things as they are, may I suggest you could do no worse than support a team like Celtic.
They're always looking for 'haters' to add to their legions of 'wonderfully supportive' fans who have 'tons of patience' and 'understanding'.
**AV writes: With respect, this season wasn't always one of "regrouping." It was made emphatically clear right from the very top last summer that this was a crucial season when it was imperative that we were promoted for financial reasons.
News from Scottish papers that if Lennon could have recalled Mac from his loan spell..he would have done.. Does not look good for us keeping him does it ?
I've no problem with players being versatile (otherwise known as squaros peggismos), but I have to agree that our midfield set up really doesn't make sense at the minute. I'd rather have GON on the right and Robson in the middle, with Arca on the wing if he has to play, but preferably Franks.
I also don't understand why Hoyte is playing ahead of Naughton, I know GS2 said he needed a rest, but he's missed three games now - and he was probably my man of the match against Preston considering the impact he made.
As for Miller up front - it seems to me that it is GS2 trying to give him a chance to establish himself, but is this really the time to do it? Unless of course GS2 has thrown in the towel for this season, so why not give Miller a run? That might also explain why Hoyte is playing, as you would assume Naughton won't be here next season, although a season-long loan next year would be good.
Six wins out of six will get us in the play-offs, but if we are to do that, Lita, Franks (and/or O'Shea) and Naughton must start next Saturday.
Two things we have to forget about here and that is... no chance of play offs and please refrain from commenting about Southgate. He is gone... lets move on and look forward to next season
Lita, Franks and Naughton at least bring some pace to a desperately pedestrian side. So will McDonald when fit.
But this season is done. Time to start ringing round for the Bosmans this summer.
OK, the playoffs are now looking a distant dream, but...
Leicester's next two games are away to Cardiff and WBA, whilst Boro are at home to Palace - if we win and they lose both (not a too unlikely scenario) then we're only 4 points behind them with four more games to play before we meet on the last day of the season.
Since our goal differences are pretty much the same, Boro only need to gain one more point than Leicester in those four games and then beat them on the last day -plus hopefully Scott McDonald will be returning soon.
Am I being too optimistic? Are three months of intensive DIY beginning to take their toll? The answer to both them questions is probably yes - but only probably!
Having admitted the reasons why he went for the set up he did on Saturday - they were as I surmised in my post match Boro Banter piece - Strachan concludes his remarks with 'some you win, some you lose'.
If he was honest - and as well as holding some of the players to account, correctly - he could have shouldered a lot of the accountability himself and added, 'some you get wrong and throw away'.
I accept that we're going to need to form a judgement on Strachan after, rightly, he's had the opportunity of the closed season to get the injuries cleared, a Summer transfer window and a pre-season.
But, so far, we didn't get the benefit of even a dead cat bounce with a change of manager or even after the January window.
Yes, we've sort of tightened up - though clean sheets are still like hen's teeth - are harder to beat and have got steady but certainly not spectacular home form.
On the evidence I've seen, I still don't have a real clue - apart from more Scots 'men' - what the continued rebuild will bring through and usher out of a speedily revolving door.
The relationship with The Academy is clearly much changed and, frankly, I think the jury is out on much of the current and upcoming crop anyway.
Meanwhile, the manager seems to reserve most of his praise for players - like Gary O'Neil - who, despite their contribution, aren't going to be here next season.
Aside from the personnel, I'm not sure either how a fully Strachanised squad and team will set out and play and whether I'll like what I see, be excited or entertained or even just appreciative that we're winning ugly but regularly enough.
I hear noises about 'settled sides' with 'two or three better than average individuals' being at the top of the division but what I see is tinkering or worse, even when there's an opportunity to 'settle', and the better players played out of position or passed over in place of the repeat failures.
Now that the play offs are long gone, I still don't see how the remaining games are being used as prep for the next campaign or, indeed, to try to sell more SCs as part of that. I'd like to - it's a good opportunity.
I am pretty certain that I won't like or be excited or entertained by The Championship and more than I have this season. I don't see where a radically improved level of quality or entertainment is coming from, though Norwich will be a positive addition.
So, the only real motivator - again - is in our last best chance to get promoted before the parachute payment goes and that we have a real - and realistic - go at doing what The Barcodes, Baggies and Forest have done this term.
It would be great to see some stuff in the last six games to excite some positive anticipation for next season.
I can't really see any reason why that shouldn't be tried now and I'd like to see an acceptance that sending sides out with such limited ambition and ending up hanging on for a draw in games like Saturday's just doesn't cut it.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see a way forward, I believe there is one and that it doesn't take that much to succeed in this poor division so the possibility and opportunity are there.
But I'd like to see the evidence not just be asked, again, for 'blind faith'. Next Saturday would be a good place to start.
"Two things we have to forget about here and that is... no chance of play offs and please refrain from commenting about Southgate. He is gone."
If we had Garth still in charge, we would still be in the play offs and only 1 pint off the top of the league.
Werdermouth
Not sure whether it's foam hand or white spirit fumes, buy hey.....
If Leicester were the only variable it might be possible to suspend disbelief a little longer. But what about Blackpool and even (for goodness sake!) Donny?
And - even more likely - what about Reading? They have two games in hand and the momentum of a winning/not getting beaten run. If they win their two in hand they're clearly seventh and have a look at their remaining fixtures - all eminently winnable.
Their only drawback is that their run in only has one six point fixture to leverage against a side currently in the top six - Cardiff, who even they will struggle to catch.
As a point of interest, Blackwell from The Blades - same points from the same number of games as Boro - has pretty publicly thrown in the towel after getting beaten yesterday.
And all of that's before you get to how Boro are suddenly going to start producing form of the like we haven't seen for seasons from the current disappinting dross.
For all the reasons I've talked about before, I'm far from saying Boro shouldn't have a go.
Adam, I think I'm at least 12 pints away from thinking Boro would have been top of the league under Southgate.
Adam Newton... 1 point of top of the league yes but only two points away from being tenth..
Southgate has gone....move on please.... I have seen no evidence of clubs offering him a manager's job if he was that good.
JP, Blackpool and Donny have to play each other so only one of them could match Boro's unbelievable theoretical superb end to the season - though I agree that Reading are the best placed to break into the play-offs if they can avoid burnout.
Anyway, it's probably going to take more than the fumes from industrial stength paint stripper to see Boro in the PL next season.
Well its a long time since Boro's season finished at the end of March.
If last season was a car crash then this season has been the period when the motorway to the premiership was shut while debris was cleared. When every 'news bulletin' stated that the motorway would be open again within half an hour until the authorities that be finally admitted that the motorway wouldn't be open again until major repairs are carried out and delays are expected until August 2010.
In the meantime the fans queing on the motorway have headed off to the SKY service station and may well never bother re-joining.
I'm looking forward (two months early) to digging the alotment, watching a bit of cricket and a holiday in Greece, not good.
Werdermouth.
I'd love to beleve it, but nevermind anybody else (Blackpool or Reading), we also have an away fixture at WBA to negotiate ....... can't see it now. However, it would be a positive thing to pick up some momentum now, to carry on into the start of the next campaign.
As I've posted before (when I don't have my fantasy glasses on) GS was effective at turning over playing staff at Celtic in his tenure. I'm looking forward to some radical change in the Boro sqad this summer and expect that we will be serious challengers for automatic promotion next year.
Werdermouth - You're right we need more than a few fumes to dream of reaching the prem. this year - maybe that 'meow meow'(spellin?) might do it!
I read the thread when it first appeared and keep coming back but I am finding it very difficult to say something that adds to the debate. I thought of being apathetic but couldnt raise any enthusiasm. It is just desperately dull.
I listened to the match on Saturday. To be more accurate it was on in the background whilst we exchanged Tommy Cooper jokes and bird references on the Live Blog. My wife and daughter were in Derby shopping and it wasnt difficult leaving before the match ended.
It is doldrums time awaiting the summer window and some activity to get excited about. It is up to the players to create some excitement but there appears to be nothing there to lift the team other than hard work. Nothing wrong with hard work but a spark is neeeded to lift us out of the mundane.
You cannot see a war chest being available to Gordon without getting the high earners out of the club.
But we are safe in the league and have avoided the fate of several clubs who just kept sliding. I think we could all do with a break.
For those who missed it on on the live blog thread this reminds me of the last couple of months and our play off hopes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcMMBUVW49o
Thanks to Monty Python and The Search for the Holy Grail
Watching some cricket and a holiday in Greece sounds a lot more appealing than watching something that has erroneously described as "football" on display at the Riverside so far this season.
Where to begin? If we have limited funds then it would have been a good idea to spend wisely. If we are to loan players, could we look at players who strengthen the team (I mean, how many members of the club's coaching staff REALLY think Miller is useful to us?). And to play Miller and Killen - by far the better of the two - together shows a sense of humour. Why not try two goalies?
Can we try to keep a settled team if possible (obviously a player who is injured or unwell can't play but we have had so many changes that Hurworth would have had to be hit by bubonic plague or an atom bomb to explain what has been going on)?
Square pegs. Poggi being held out to dry in the last two home games (when he is fit and well, if he is to play anywhere it surely has to be at centre back). People who score goals (a rarity in this club) not being picked to start the next game. God, if you are a striker and you score, surely that is when you are most confident and should play again.
An injection of passion? If we now realise we are NOT going up, why not play the lads who MIGHT be here next season, or WANT to be here? If they don't want to play, many of the supporters might choose not to watch.
If I had a dog, it would be sensible to make itself scarce on Saturdays from now on. Do all dreams turn out to be nightmares in the end?
1 point from the top, lets sack the boss. Now, 29 points from the top.
Still people are blaming Southgate for all the troubles.
Anyway, lets give the new boss some time, just as the old one should have had. Lets pray that Gibson dont further destroy his (and ours) reputation by sacking like a madman. Though it must be said that falling 28 points behind in a few months is very, very poor. No matter which calculator you choose to use, thats a really bad record.
Gibson did all he could to make a joke out of our reputation for loyalty and trust. Now he should eat the bread he has bought, and give Strachan at least another year. Despite a record that (in all respects) suggests otherwise.
Anlov,
You should recognise that the clubs reputation for loyalty and trust was built because of one man and one man only - Steve Gibson. That reputation hasnt been ruined because he sacked Southgate or because short sighted fans say so.
Gibson is doing whats right for this club long term. Is there a Boro fan out there that doesnt believe Strachan will get us to the Premier League next year? i bet there are very few.
I know i am in a minority but sacking Southgate when he did was in my view entirely the right decision. If change is going to happen why wait?
Many supporters live on a match by match basis and let league tables and results cloud their judgement of the bigger picture. One week they are bouncing the next slitting their wrists. Football isnt always about the here and now its also about building for the future.
Yeah, when we sacked the Gate we were one point from the top and had just won against a poor team, but there was nothing to suggest we could maintain our level of being 1 point from the top for the rest of the season.
The results of the teams around us were as erratic as ours at that stage, thats why we were one point from the top. We have fallen 28 points behind for 2 reasons:
1) The teams around us have improved their erratic form and we havent.
2) We have gone through a huge period of change. Change that needed to happen for our long term future. Short term pain for long term gain.
This time next year this season will be a distant memory and hopefully we will be looking forward to promotion.
Tindu
Nice attempt, many of us have tried to apply logic to Anlov before. We have tried pointing out that results against better organised teams before Gate left painted a false position. Even Gibbo stated that was a reason for him going.
Not all the problems were Gates fault but fundamental flaws were never addressed.
Anlov said Gate should have been given more time. Three seasons were ample. Whilst football tut tutted at his leaving I havent noticed a queue of chairman seeking to employ him as the managerial merry go round continues.
As for Strachan, the jury is very much out on him but he needs a fair chance with a pre season to change the squad.
Will he get three seasons and £40-50 million like Gate did? Unlikely, you cannot sell the crown Jewels twice nor can you spend the Sky money you wont be getting
Of his aquisitions, Robson looks excellant, Flood looks to be hard working and bright, McDonald and Killen look a potential partnership up front, McManus has been very good, Miller looks like a bit of a mare. Of the rest they were all loanees to get round injury problems and in general were disappointing.
Problem we have is a few of the players we signed in January are actually out of contract in the summer so may not be here as well! Flood apparently has a host of teams watching him from the championship waiting to make an offer in the summer when he is a free agent! Duh!
I'm afraid I can't see where GS is taking this team, but it is definitely not the Premiership.
Robson aside I haven't seen anything in his signings to instill any confidence in me for the next transfer window. Ultimately a manager is judged on the players he buys and how he gets them to play, so far that has been pretty poor. How many games have we played well in under his stewardship? Not many I think. And how many of the current loanees will be here next season?
Next season starts on Saturday, lets hope for a winning end to the current one, unfortunately with this team I very much doubt it.
The only real luck we have had this year is securing the services of Gordon Strachan a hard working, clear thinking, knowlegeable football manager. A genuine and interesting character who will transform the club.
I find all this high handed talk of "giving him another chance..." embarrassing. Its him who'll be giving us another chance.
is there any news on Tony McMahon's recovery ? He's just the sort of skilful, tough, mentally fearless 'Bobby Dazzler' we need.
Yes I still think we can make the play-offs and if I could find hotel near Wembley where I could safely take my trousers off I would have booked it !
GHW - It is 38 not 98 posts!
I think we all agree that there has been nothing to excite us though I am less bleak about some of the players he has brought in.
It may sound daft but the biggest problem is what we havent brought in. We are bereft of pace in the team especially in midfield. Downing and Jinky havent been replaced therefore we are pedestrian.
No matter how good you are up front you need the drive, effort, guile and pace in midfield to unpick defences otherwise it is lob the ball up to the front men and hope for the best. In this division the defenders will gobble up that service unless the pass is spot on.
We seem better at retention in midfield - not surprising with Robson in there - but we are painful down the flanks especially on the left. If Strachan has a vision he is keeping it under wraps or there is nothing he can do until the summer.
It is a long wait until August.
Chris said earlier "Problem we have is a few of the players we signed in January are actually out of contract in the summer so may not be here as well!"
I suspect that that was the plan in January. we needed players in quickly, but we didn't also want to burden the club with players on longer contracts who might not be part of future plans. So. Now we are safe in mid-table, part of the job or the purpose for bringing in these guys is done.
All concerned need to be applauded for the players that did come in and the manner in which that was achieved. I'm trusting Strachan's judgement abut the players he will want to persuade to stay on; those he would like to move on; and those he would like to bring in.
GS2 spelled out our problem after the Watford game, we are playing risk-free football, we still don't have anyone really prepared to take the game by the scruff of the neck and have a gamble (with the possible exception of Robson).
This is probably something that is hard to shake out of the players already here when he arrived who had had their confidence totally shattered by a dismal few months. A good pre-season should hopefully get that sorted. If it doesn't, then he has no excuses left to hide behind.
Ian,
Downing and Johnson brought in £20 million. That is why we haven't replaced them, it takes top money to buy top players.
I did say at the end of the transfer window we had become a long ball team. Like it or not, under GS that is the future. Why else sign players like Killen and Miller?
Flood is not good enough, that is why he hasn't made it anywhere else. If we are reduced to playing Arca as a left winger then I fear for the academy, surely we have a better youngster who can at least retain the ball in that position.
That Jones is back in the fold at the expense of Coyne also speaks volumes. GON flatters to deceive and Wheater has failed to live up to his promise. We are still lacking in both full back positions. I'm sorry to sound so negative but the facts are staring us in the face, just look at the table and the teams above us.
If Newcastle win at the weekend and other results go their way they will be promoted back to the Premiership with games to spare.
No, we have a long way to go and I don't think GS is the man to take us there.
Strong rumours (ie inside the loop rather than from the pub) that Martin O'Neill has walked out at Villa in a row over next year's budget.
Was he the one who got away? Was that the pivotal moment in Boro's recent history?
I suppose it's hard to argue against the fact that so far Gordon's tenure has not exactly been a success. Southgate was sacked for not getting the best out of the team with a record of 7 wins from 13 games - Strachan has also managed 7 wins but from more than double that number of games (27).
We can only hope that Strachan's team is moving forward but it's uncertain whether there will be much of this team left come the start of next season - which means he will need to build a second team in the summer.
In theory it should be easier to get players in during the summer - though Boro will have a lot of competition in trying to secure their targets or retaining the services of the likes of McManus and Killen.
I'm sure Gordon knows what he needs to do but he must be under no illusion that he has to deliver from week one - unless of course the PFI scenario occurs (Paint Fume Inhalation) and Boro somehow finesse their way into the play-offs and make it into the PL - in which case he can do what he likes.
Regarding the O'Neil conjecture - If he walked out on Villa over their budget then how long would he have stayed at Boro with our ever-decreasing budget?
I think I agree with Ian Gills view rather than GHW's assessment of where we are.
I believe this team would be very quickly improved by a couple of decent wide players, players with a bit of pace and guile that can take the game to the opposition and put good delivery into the box.
I certainly liked the look of Preston's Ross Wallace at the Riverside recently-in fact I always thought he was a decent turn for Sunderland.
Presumably Strachan sees the same things as the rest of us at least I hope so.
I think it was significant that Barry Robson let out in an interview about six weeks ago I would guess that we would have to wait until the summer for further reinforcements. The pieces of the jigsaw will fall into place mid summer.At least thats what I keep telling myself.
Martin o Neill would have been the perfect manager at that particular time. I have no idea why he was not given the job.
On another note someone who was at the club supporters meeting last night said that both Jim Platt and Terry Cochrane commented that Strachan was not up to the the job of managing Middlesbrough. What do they know?
**AV writes: That must have gone down a storm at the official supporters club where dissent does not really compute.
Please will someone tell me what Gary O'Neil brings to this team? Everyone harps on about Arca but O'Neil doesnt provide anything in the way of creativity. He also makes alot of poor decisions on his range of passing and dont talk about the free kicks he takes. He's light weight, Id try and swap him for Osman at Everton, a good solid midfield player with an eye for goal
So Stewie Downings Dad has txt AV to tell him O'Neil has jacked? Blimey!!
GHW
My view on GS is that I dont know if he is good enough, we will have to wait and see. I am not qualified to judge on the long ball or not in his play, Braveheart is the one to comment. I think Killem and Miller were who were available in the short window.
I agree about Downing and Johnson being £20m of talent but lots of other Championship teams seem to have speedy and tricky players who torture us. Must be someone out there.
AV: If O'Neill HAS walked out at Villa for the reasons you suggest may be the case, it'll be those same reasons why he wouldn't have joined Boro back in 2006!
No ambitious top-notch manager is ever going to be attracted to a club that shows anything less than continued growth ambition and demonstrates that by backing the manager with the cash that it takes to sustain that improvement!
THAT is why Gibson appointed Southgate, a) because NO top-rated manager would accept the cost reduction remit Gibson required and b) Southgate's appointment was his first managerial one - an opportunity for inexperienced and naive Gareth to get his first management position and for Gibson to effectively get a submissive manager in post who had no option, experience or knowledge to challenge his intent and who wouldn't make the sort of ambitious demands that a Martin O'Neill would on his Chairman's finances!
That said, MON may have to re-jig his own world-view if the new football reality has cast it's cold shadow on Randy's plaything and he realises that he simply can't compete with Sheik Mansour, the Glazers, Abramovich, the Yank would-be scousers, Carson Yeung and all the rest who have climbed on the Scudamore bandwagon and reduced the rest of English Football to the poor state it's in, the BEST of which is supposed to be this dreadful Championship fare that we're having to endure.
I sincerely hope the rumblings at the FA and the rumoured intent of government intervention in the regulation of the game in the UK bears fruit soon - if only so that Martin O'Neill may be able to find a job that matches his ambition, you understand. I'd hate to think of poor Martin being unfulfilled in life!
**AV writes: The story came from a senior Times journalist and spread via the journo Twittersphere but they have spent most of the afternoon since then trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
The apointment of the tinkerman (the worst manager of Boro EVER!) must rate as the biggest mistake of Steve Gibson's reign. Get rid before he gets us relegated .
Can anyone out there enlighten me? What has he done that the other G.S could'nt have done? We were one point off the top when he arrived - now we are thirty something!! is that progress?
Reality is that our finances are not yet stabilised and GSII will not have a warchest this summer to spend. In fact with the out of contracts and loaners ending their tenure in July we will be lucky to have a squad anywhere near the size of this season.
When injuries and suspensions start coming thick and fast in the Autumn we will be found wanting and the cupboard will be extremely bare. Times are tough but reality is they are about to get much tougher.
Unless the financial fortunes of SG's Transport empire improves along with the the Hotel venture during the hoped for economic recovery he will be loathe to gamble more good money after bad.
Allied to all this is GSII's less than emphatic performances to date (even allowing for the fact that he was playing Real Madrid, Brazil, Barcelona and Manure whilst GSI played Gateshead, Barrow and York and the Women's Institute).
Throw in the 8,000 Season Card sales, the lack of Academy back up and there you have MFC 2010-2011 season.
If Leicester implode and we adapt a swashbuckling cavalier make or break attitude in our remaining games a miracle might see us in the play offs (and it would be a miracle). Whether we could make it through the play offs is even more unlikely but the reality is that if we don't go up this season we will be middling in the Championship for a very long time to come.
Ian Gill said:
"Nice attempt, many of us have tried to apply logic to Anlov before. As for Strachan, Will he get three seasons and £40-50 million like Gate did?"
Ian, my friend, you are probably as stubborn as the next man, but this time your out running... Gate was given 40-50 million pounds in transfer money...come on! His total was in the minus.
If you havent been taking notes or following the Boro closely enough the last years I will give you the numbers. As McClarens was spending an enormous amount of money, Southgate spent nothing. Hes total was below zero.
And to other guys here, suggesting that we should stop discussing the Gate. Serously?? Never mention Steve, Bryan or Gareth. Seriously? What kind of historic understanding do you want, the last game only?
And, I will continue giving you the facts of our last manager until this one delivers:
1 point from the top. Now 29. It makes me proud.
braveheart1 said:
«1 point of top of the league yes but only two points away from being tenth..»
Well, now its 29 from the top and 7 pts from 19. Thats just great. Please!
AV ~
Just goes to show that the media grapevine is filled with red herrings. 'Twittering' has its uses but it also fills the net with far too many rumours to make it a truly viable and reliable source of information. Much like the internet generally. But appreciate the heads-up as it's rare us mere mortals get that kind of 'strong' insider info.
Richard and Redcar Red ~
Totally agree with your views. And Redcar Red is right; nothing but very rough times ahead for us as we all adjust to the downsizing, especially as there are still some final pieces piece of the money jig saw to be put in place that we are yet to be made aware of.
It's a fact that only a handful of people truly know the financial mire that we are immersed in while the rest of us are fed with little to no information, leaving us to speculate, hope and worry, depending on your outlook and/or trust of the hierarchy.
Notwithstanding the lack of real financial information available, IMHO we are potentially talking about a whole decade of decline.
Roll on 2020.
Redcar Red's words at 9.22pm mirror my thoughts.
Tindu at 8.58am said: "Many supporters live on a match by match basis and let league tables and results cloud their judgement of the bigger picture."
That is often true with a good result causing euphoria and a bad one causing ritual wrist slitting, but it is equally true that recent dissatisfaction is not because we have suffered a run of poor form, but because we have watched a steady decline that has lasted FOUR YEARS. From UEFA Cup Finalists to a mid-table Championship side whose recent form can't be much above relegation form.
Of course the Premier League relegation should have been avoided (just one win - holding our lead against Hull, or beating Sunderland and sneaking a draw instead of having conceded as we so often did at the death?) even with some cost cutting. Did we have a worse team than Stoke or Hull who stayed up? Obviously we have a worse squad now....!
Tindu goes on to say at 8.58am: "We have gone through a huge period of change. Change that needed to happen for our long term future. Short term pain for long term gain."
He is right there, if he is referring to our pressing need to cut our debts by selling some "assets" and no longer competing in the purchase of superstar players, and to reduce the wagebill, to put the club onto a sound, sustainable financial footing.
But he is wrong if he thinks the period of change has happened and is now over. If we assume we do NOT go up this season, then some more of our players will go this summer, we will have to bring in more players to replace them (without spending too much, so they would have to be "canny" buys), and thus there will be even MORE change. So next season is unlikely to see a suddenly settled squad, is it?
And that, of course ignores the probability that we would be competing next season for promotion against, let's say, Portsmouth who are obviously in trouble unless sold yet again, West Ham who appear to have rich backers and have always had a really excellent academy, and Burnley who appear to be well run, have not spent ridiculously and will probably retain most of their squad to use with their parachute payment to go straight back up.
But also against a resurgent Norwich playing to full houses every week even in the division below, maybe Millwall and possibly Leeds or Southampton - quite apart from Sheff Utd, and presumably at least two of Forest, WBA, Cardiff and Swansea.
Again, the simple truth is that the greater prospect of promotion is in the first year, a reduced propect in the second year, and then little prospect for some time after that. No doubt that is why SG sacked GS1, as it looked like we were slipping in our aim to return immediately to the Premier League, a slip it was difficult to countenance, even if we were only that fabled point or so behind a promotion place.
GS2 must have thought he was onto a winner. The three relegated teams were the three favourites to go up, we were only a point or so behind, and with a little "tweak" here and there he must have thought the new manager bounce would count for more than one measly point, and even though we had to be careful with our money we had all been assured from on high that we had more than enough resources to match anyone in the division apart from Newcastle, so promotion must have seemed a probability not a mere possibility.
Let's be honest, this is a poor league. If it were not, we could hardly be in with a chance of STILL getting into the play-offs even if it would be miraculous from here. However to do that would require a series of wins that we haven't shown any capability of delivering at any stage this season.
So from having been in the Premier League for a decade to now being in the middle of The Championship and not REALLY challenging for one of the promotion places (just check the tables in a couple of weeks) isn't a good performance, is it? Even if we have been unlucky, or suffered injuries, or had to cope with changes in the playing staff.
The key question (and one which I don't have the mathematical skills to answer) is whether the graph is pointing up or down? We know where we were when the club changed its manager. We know that there might have been a period when results weren't going well. But are there signs of positive improvement now, more than half a season later? Does it look as though, given more time, the tide has been turned and the graph points upwards? Or is that just a hope, without anything to back it up except blind faith?
Who is going to be here next season? Surely Wheats will be sold, and it might well be the case that McManus is required to return to Celtic. Poggi will go (not that we have seen much of him this term, and when we have, he would have to admit he's not torn up any trees), and clearly Riggott will be let go. Will we have a centre back? Obviously GO'N is a candidate to go. And there are people on this blog who have in the past offered to drive the car that takes away Aliadiere and Arca. We'd better start a search party for the sort of team that might challenge next year.
Anyone prepared to bet their house on promotion next season? Or their car? Any backsides ready and waiting for exposure in Binns' window? Now, that's a challenge. Put your backside where your mouth is!
I look fowrad to the headline in the Gazette. "GS2 - promotion to the Premier League or it's Binns' Window for my backside!" With a queue of SG and a cast of many from this blog (name yourselves, don't be shy) standing behind him ready with the velcro trousers.
Forever Red and Dormo -
The last transfer window was the first for a long time to address the key midfield issue. To have a good central player who has bite and can pass the ball. Someone with attitude to drive us forward. Sadly it coincided with the depature of Jinky. Robson is battling away but with nothing to drive forward.
Porrit the replacement for Jinky for Downing didnt make the grade. Morrison is long gone. The hard man Cat was cast aside with the rest of midfield. The joker in the pack, Tuncay, has gone but he was always fitful. O'Neill will go this summer.
I wont dwell on the other areas but that is the area that controls the football and the game.
Where are reinforcements coming from? It may be some time before another academy kid can step up to the plate worthy though they are.
My one hope is that other clubs on a shoestring can find them. They are out there, one of them tortures us most weeks. A measure is that Boyd joined Forest in preference to us. I supose it they are a lot closer to Peterborough than us.
There is no quick fix especially with a limited budget.
And Anlov, this was set in motion long before Gate left. He is better off out of it with his family, others played a large part in the situation.
Everyone is so apathetic, even AV can't be bothered to comment... I'm off on hols for 2 weeks - see you all after Easter
Middlesbrough were relegated from the Premiership...Manager - Gareth Southgate
Lets move on
It seems many on these boards have given up on the season and are in danger of joining the ranks of the Chicken Runners - so perhaps it's worth recalling the story of how the Chicken Runners came to pass.
Those who managed to catch this week's programme on the Solar System will have discovered that the impact made on Middlesbrough by the Redcar Rock pales into insignificance compared to that made by an even bigger rock.
It informed us that one the biggest impacts witnessed by the Earth occured at Middlesboro over 200m years ago - though the spelling reveals that this was not our small town in Europe but our namesake in Kentucky.
Such was the size of the impact that the only survivors were the quickest distant ancestors of the bird now favoured by a local chef known as 'The Colonel' - and it believed by some (me) that this was probably where the start of the phenomenum we now know as the 'Chicken Runners' began.
Perhaps other posters can help explain how the phenomenon of the Foam Handers began?
Ian Gill at 7.56am -
I agree Barry Robson looks a very handy player, and one of our better recent forays into the transfer market. I also agree that getting the midfield right is key to a successful future.
If we were all satisfied with the goalkeeping situation, with the defence, and if the forwards were regularly hitting the net, we could perhaps think that if we could sort out the midfield we would look good for next season.
Forever Dormo at 9:02 - Right with you there!
Did the latest Gazette online survey last evening. Not much to excite anticipation for another season in this appalling league.
I don't think that Palace's result at Watford did Boro any favours either.
Firstly, it put our pathetic effort on the same ground last Saturday into its proper perspective. Secondly, it sets Palace up for their visit to The Riverside on Saturday.
They have something to play for and, now, to bite on. Boro don't - though they should. And I don't see any sign of Strachan being that bothered about finishing this season well to prep for next or in trying to entertain to sell some more SCs.
About the only real interest will be in whether O'Shea gets some game time and what he does with it.
Given the holidays too, I'm afraid my money is on Palace doing the double over Boro in a dour scrap in front of yet another record very, very low attendance.
Anyone want to persuade me otherwise? My only hope is that Paul Hart is one of the poorest managers around and one of the least lucky too. If anyone can beggar up their chances on Saturday it's him.