Boro Salvage Positives From Nightmare Start
THINGS looked bad before kick-off. The slow bubble of pre-match optimism faded fast with the news that Scott McDonald hadn't travelled and turned to panic as the team-sheet appeared. Justin Hoyte in central midfiled? What madness is this? Andrew Taylor back in the team in the vacant Adam Johnson berth.
Things looked worse as Ipswich scored after 22 seconds in a moment of disjointed defensive chaos. And in the spell that followed it looked as if the roof would cave in as Ipswich piled forward in waves,ripping down a fragile Boro left flank and peppering the box with balls that were being desperately, untidily, frantically scrambled away. We were so bad that Daryl Murphy and David Healy looked good.
With 20 minutes gone Boro's mis-shpen side looked set for a battering. The rearguard - two debutants - was creaking and struggling to hold the line and the long balls forward to the front pairing - two similar workhorses with a physical presence but no cutting edge. Between the two was a dysfunctional and completely unpredictable midfield unit that was being bypassed at will. It was a bit of a mess and we were looking at damage limitation. Boro were lucky to get to the break just one goal down.
But after the break it was a different story: reorganised (ineffective Hoyte taken out of the centre, ravaged Taylor taken out of the firing line completely in favour of Franks) and reinvigorated, spirited Boro launched a second half fight-back that showed a real resilience and determination. Which spoke volumes.
They hadn't folded after the goal or under the pressure in the first half, they responded in style and after the deserved if scrappy leveller they looked the stronger of the sides and maybe should have snatched it. You can see the highlights here (unless you live abroad in which case you'll have to scour YouTube)
Positives:
McManus looked to have slotted straight in and was a calm and commanding presence amid the chaos in the opening spell, helping talk and point and organise as Boro rebuilt a solid wall at the back.
The team showed real character to come back from the instant opener. That doesn't excuse the lack of concentration straight from kick-off that led to it being conceded but to claw back from such a blow was pleasing. A few months ago heads would have gone down and the team imploded. Think about the West Brom game.
It was a valuable point. The pyschological value of the unbeaten run should not be under-estimated. having stopped the catestrophic run of defeats Strachan has now made the team hard to beat and mentally tough enough to overcome set-backs and grind out points... that it came from a mismatched side with no real striker is a plus.
Because now key players have to come back into the equation: Barry Robson will be back on Tuesday, maybe Scott McDonald too. Soon we will see Strachan's team line-up and play as he intends.
But the pressure is on. The two home games in the next week are massive. Two wins and Boro are right back in and can barge into the play-off places with a bit of momentum. Lose them and the feelgood factor of the january changes will be squandered and the maths will swing against our play-off pretensions. Bring it on.
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I did say last week that McDonald wouldn't play owing to his recent surgery. And I wouldn't count him in for Tuesday either. The fella needs time to heal.
That's four games now; when was the last time that happened? Not the best unbeaten run but a run nonetheless.
Anyhow, it is essential we pick up maximum points from our next two games as these are followed by two very hard matches away to Pool and Forest.
The pressure's truly on now for those of us that support the notion that Boro can still make it to the play-offs, me included.
It's looking like an almighty run will be needed to secure a playoff place and dislodge Leicester who are looking like the team we need to overtake. Four points ahead with two games in hand is going to take a monumental effort from us, plus they have a far easier run in than us.
It could all come down to the last game of the season against our party pooper friends. Bring it on.
Agree 100%, AV. In order for us to reach the play-offs, we must start winning home games, and picking up points away. Here's hoping to some wins this week.
The book is open to see how many minutes Robson will stay on the pitch against Barnsley. Sounds bitchy, I know - but the guy is a mad concoction of Souness and Gazza. Something we have needed for a while perhaps, but please Robbo, keep a level head and do the busines on the field without gobbing off to the Officials.
Roll on 6 points from the next two matches.
Its nice being optimistic.
But the " A few months ago heads would have gone down and the team imploded" is taking it a bit far..?
A "few months ago" we beat the same team comfortably (3-1), and even more tellingly Shef Wedn 3-1 after them scoring in the second minute.
But given the dismal Strachan-reign every positive should be appreciated, I agree to that.
An unbeaten run changes the mentality, it hardens up players that got used to losing and bringing in more experience gives the younger guys time to develop rather than have them under pressure week after week.
That's the second game in a row where I hear the words grit and determination and a new word "style". Definitely feels like a turn around to me....
I'm right behind Strachen, the squad composition previously created by he who shall remain nameless was a shambles, not enough quality, backbone or depth and too many centre halves, too many full backs, not enough midfielders or forwards so he's having to work his way back from a threadbare position. This is being rectified and I think the gloom is lifting.
I'm trying really hard to buy into the "new hope" (as oppose to blind faith I suppose) and was looking forward to seeing Strachan's "new Boro" despite having a midfield shortage.
Pre kick off I figured GON and Walker in the centre with Flood probably on the right and possibly Franks or Arca wide left (prior to knowing about his toe problem) or perhaps Flood there and then maybe Emnes, Hoyte (prior to knowing about his tonsilitis?) or Naughton wide right.
However Square pegging was taken to a new limit even way beyond Gareth's best (or worse as the case may be). Removing Macca at RB who has been holding his own and putting Naughton in was unfair in my opinion.
There was worse to come though, whilst Grounds deservedly kept a place in the team he was pushed out to Left Back to accomodate McManus who in fairness looked a class act. Our square pegged right footed LB was removed at last but only to pop up in the middle of the park (Eh!).
At this point I figured I must have misunderstood surely, I mean making 3 unenforced switches to your backline was a reckless and dangerous gamble. The midfield was even more remarkable, Hoyte was in the muddle (sorry middle) with GON but then our most experienced Left back (who does actually have a left foot) returns from the wilderness but now reinvented as a winger!
Now I haven't got coaching badges so I'm totally unqualified in these things but that team sheet told me there was a very high likelihood that our defence could be all at sea and the left side of our midfield non existent. No surprise then that it took only a few seconds for the flaw to be exposed by the Tractor boys.
The fightback in the 2nd half was a positive. McManus looks like he could be the new Huth and Grounds keeping his place adds a bit of height to our backline so there are some positives. Robson will be back and I believe will be a hit at this level, probably out in Jinky's former berth.
I also strongly believe that Walker could be a hit in this "new Boro" team (especially sandwiched between Robson and GON) and certainly offers as much if not more than anything I have seen from Osbourne during his loan stint. So there are flickering signs of optimism (couldn't have got any worse I suppose) but these improvements were negated by team selection blunders of Homer Simpson proportions. I can summarise the inaugural new Boro's outing in one word "DOH"!
Must do, and can do better but we must stop shooting ourselves in the foot before we even take the field.
**AV writes: We got the team-sheet at 2.15pm and the Teesside press corps collectively scratched our heads and had a crack at the team and went through all the possible permutations but I don't think anyone had Hoyte as CM.
Neil (USA, not Canada) "That's four games now; when was the last time that happened?" - First four games of this season actually, 3 wins and a draw and no goals conceded which had us second behind Cardiff on goal difference. Happy Days.
Redcar Red ~ I'm sure that starting line~up had us all at sixes and sevens! It was a recipe for disaster and we could easily have been torn to shreds when they threw everything bar the kitchen sink at us in the first half.
I have to say that while we are very stretched in the midfield department for a variety of reasons, I just don't see why Strachan couldn't have come up with something far less riskier than that line~up.
Is he doing this to test all our resolve? Yes, there are tons of positives to be taken from the game but the gaffer should never set our team up for failure before we even kick the darn ball!
I'm still trying to work out what he sees in Hoyte and why he continually plays him out of position. I just don't understand it. If I didn't know any better, I think he does these things to court controversy. To get a reaction as you were.
If he keeps making bizarre decisions like this I think he gives fair ammunition to those that haven't bought into the idea of him being our Manager and certainly casts plenty of doubt in the minds of those that do support our new regime.
If we are going to buy into this new~look Boro, he'd better make sure he improves his judgement when he has a piece of paper and a pen in his hands.
With Ipswich, that's another game gone - another decent opportunity spurned to improve our points per match average.
Results less than a win, continue to detract from the current average which is, in itself, clearly not going to be anywhere near enough to get Boro into the playoffs. Our best chances are against teams who have performed worse than us in the league so far. To draw with them, whether it's at home or at their place, simply doesn't get anywhere close enough to a satisfactory outcome in keeping with the revised season target.
The assumption (based on current league points distribution), of requiring at least 73 points to get into 6th place (and it may yet prove to be more), requires Boro to achieve an average ppm for the whole season of 1.587.
Boro presently sit on 1.310. The current 35 point minimum requirement, averaged over the remaining 17 matches available to Boro, is a return rate of 2.059 per match to meet the playoff target.
The 35 (min) points can only be achieved with a MINIMUM of 9 wins, and that only if backed up by a minimum of 8 draws and no losses. There are of course permutations around that, but the sobering imperative is that Boro HAVE TO WIN at least 53% of their remaining matches. And the season's win rate to date stands at 35%!
So at this stage in such a critical season, let's not go down the "good away draw" route! Draws simply aren't good enough.
I can totally understand Redcar red's scepticism.When a team lines up in a way that defies all logic it shakes your faith in the manager.
Admittedly the mistakes had been rectified by the 50th minute but the team should never have started with Hoyte and Taylor in those positions.
This weeks home games are the acid test as to whether a challenge to achieve a play off position is in any way realistic or merely a pipe dream.
Neil in Canada makes a point about GSII "courting controversy". He certainly tested our resolve with Jones in goal previously and then Hoyte at LB, it does make you wonder if he has some sort of warped agenda.
Please note Neil that I didn't use "Stricken" once through the entire piece even if the irony is that it was perhaps very apt for the 1st 45 minutes :-)
With regards the Teamsheet AV I doubt anyone could have figured that set up. It was almost as confusing as Gareth's famous home game v. Blackburn last season when he just about played every CB at the club.
I just hope the similarities end there because as Richard points out we now need to average the same points per game as Gareth achieved just about. Lets hope "new Boro" are capable of it, Left flank especially.
Richard, I agree that a win would have been better (obviously), but I still think Saturday's point was a good one. If we win our remaining home games and draw our remaining away games, we'll end up on 74 points, which was the point total of the 6th and 7th teams.
IF...If my aunt had....well, you get my point. It's a tall order. My feeling is that we'll improve, but we'll just fall short. If we do make the play-offs, we'll have had to have gone on one hell of a run.
If we don't make the play-offs, and the team isn't gutted for financial reasons, I'd feel pretty confident about our chances for next season. But there's a lot of footy left yet.
I'm not giving up hope yet, but anything short of two wins this week, will surely spell the end of our flickering play-off dreams.
Dont know why Mcdonald did not play on saturday (this is only a question). I was a little surprised by Mr Strachan after match comments though.
Quote:
"I thought it was a fair result. Ipswich were the better team in the first half. We were getting used to a right-back playing in the middle of the park and a left-back playing on the left of midfield.
"The fact we then went a goal down so early on threw the guys who were playing out of position into a bit of shock but our mental strength got better as the game went on. We showed we can play but we have to learn to be more professional in the first couple of minutes."
So he played players out of position, even though he had players on the bench for the correct position?
Hopefully his last comment will not be the same as we used to hear from Mr Southgate week after week "we have to learn"
At least it was a draw, but we are falling behind the "play off place" If you look at the league now three of the four places are well clear of us - seven points constitues them losing three and we winning all of our games.
That leaves one place open and that team at present is 4 points ahead and a game in hand. so effectively they could draw away from us also. I guess we can only hope against hope that something might happen this season, but it is becoming more obvious that this season will end in the Championship.
Sorry Anthony but you say no real striker. I thought Miller and Killeen were centre forwards????????.
So it looks like WHU are going to get a good deal by signing Mido. here is post script of first game for them
"It was no surprise when McCarthy gave way to Mido at half-time, and the former Middlesbrough man went on to deliver an eye-catching cameo.
"Mido served notice of his intentions by sending a thunderous early second-half shot narrowly wide. And as the Egyptian continued to impress, it was no surprise when he applied a vital touch in nudging the ball to Ilan as West Ham pulled one back with nine minutes to go."
Mido could have done a very good job for us in this league, but I guess the BORO messing him about and then him messing the Boro about resulted in he will never play for us again.
Personally I think he is a better player than the 3 forwards we have signed. We are paying his wages for him to play in the preiership. Whatever is the world coming to.
Just warched Boeteng star and score a great goal in the Premiership, Did we get rid of him too soon ?.I have also been watching Luke Wilkshire play some great games for Australia in the World and Asian Cups, another we ditched too soon?
Could Mido now give us some thoughts that we did not get the best out of him? Cattermole is also starring in the Premiership week in week out. Surely these players are the sort we need now, instead of the cast out Celtic clan we have assembled?
We were playing some good football and in the top three early on this season, then Mr Strachan comes along and explains where we have been going wrong under Gareth for three years, and we then drop down to the middle of the table.
I hope the new regime can get us back to where we belong, but I have my doubts. Six points in the next two matches would give me more hope than I have at present.
,
A draw was Ok after the first half event, though with better luck we could have won. I predicted a 1-1 draw in this blog beforehand.
OK it was strange line up but most probably it worked during training before the match. An it worked second half after introducing Franks to the left wing and Hoyte at right wing, anyway.
I think GS2 said in one interview (Boro World?) that he hopes to have a couple of loan players lined up the the Tuesday match. So I trust he has a plan ready. As January window proved he is up to his word. And he had ã 3 million available for 'Pool's Adam - so we should see new players coming soon.
So I really look forward to the next home matches as Robbo and Supermac should be available, too. Up the Boro!
Richard,
Great stats. I think when a minimum of 9 wins is mentioned the enormity of the task is realised. Not impossible yet but inching that way after every game drawn.
To have any chance of the playoffs we need to pick up 7 points between now and the end of the month.
It pains me to say this but it wouldnâÂÂt be the end of the world to get beaten down by the Trent. A defeat at the Seasiders would harm our play off chances more. Also Barnsley are on a great run of form and will fancy their chances of the play offs too.
Just a quick note on playing players out of position. Who is to say that they are out of position? They may be playing in a different position but why not? These are professional footballers that should be able to play in most positions, admittedly better in some rather than others. Young players shouldnâÂÂt be pigeon holed in to being a DF, MF, DMC, RWB too early.
Arsene Wenger saw that Henry would be a better CF than RM, but then again he also seeâÂÂs Alumunia as a goal keeper.
Good result this weekend. Ipswich have only been beaten twice in their last 16.
Was very worried with the starting line up but with McDonald and Robson to come in and Pogi I think we can just make it to the play offs.
The Mags, Albion and Forest look good for the first three places but the last three is where points are being dropped. The top three can help us by taking points and of course we must do the same to them ie Cardiff.
Would be intresting to look at remaining fixtures of say the top down to Boro to see whats coming up.The way results have been going there could be still a lot of suprises before the season is over.
AV, I got one e-mail deleted by you or it was lost in the cyber space on Sunday.
I really missed the live blog. If needed please ask for a voluntary fee from us for it. Then you could buy 10m of Ethernet cable and connect your PC there. Wouldn't that be more safe for the connection?
Of course those who contribute could have their comments popping up without a delay/approval and having a name and 'supersupporter' title on the blog mentioned!
Up the Boro Live Blog!
**AV writes: I don't know what the problem was on Saturday but this time I don't think it was me. A lot of people were complaining about the wifi dropping out and losing connections. No consolation I know. Useless bloody modern technology.
David Connor:
Doesn't Mido tend to look good (for Spurs, us and Wigan) until someone upsets him? My bet would be that he will go the same way at WHU as he has at every other club that have regretted signing him. If he doesn't, let's hope the Hammers take him permanently off our hands at the end of the season.
As to Ipswich, the start was appalling, of course, with us cut open by a very predictable move, but the deflection off McManus could not be helped. The Hoyte/Taylor fiasco is now behind us and is unlikely to be repeated, let us say!
But there were positives. Before some posters get too much back into the pessimistic vein, let me mention a couple of positives.
Killen really does hold the ball up and lay it off better than anyone else we have had trying to do this job this season - and by a country mile! He worked his socks off again, and I was surprised to see him taken off in place of Miller so that Lita could come and blunder around in his "come-on-then-foul-me" fashion.
Miller was unlucky to miss with a deft chip from just below the away support, and that showed me, at least, that he's not just a big centre forward who does what Killen does a little less well. It was a shame we didn't see what McDonald might bring to the party: on first comparison of Killen and Miller, I'd suggest that Killen was the more likely partner for him, and I hope we see them paired soon.
I also strongly hope WGS does not bring Killen onto the bench in favour of Miller, because Killen's workrate alone has not deserved it, and Willo and he do seem to make a very good unit when picking up the loose ball around the half-way line.
Willo's first half was fantastic, I thought. He was like an annoyed hornet and did more than anyone else to let Ipswich know they weren't to imagine they could just run all over us, even as they were! (He faded, not surprisingly in the second half.)
Even Hoyte got much more composed as the game went on. Wheater played well (and I saw some poster on these boards suggesting he was to blame for the goal: not so, he was in the right place until the ball deflected) and McManus was very good too. Grounds was fine too.
Franks does what Lita does (when he's not preparing to be pushed over) much better than him and, as he showed at Donny, can shoot as well if the situation allows him to. Even though Naughton looks to have more attacking threat about him, McMahon did not deserve to be dropped. I was expecting Naughton to be the one to bolster the midfield, and Bennett to do what Taylor was asked to do.
Anyway, I thought I'd offer this to helpstop any possible slide back into negativity for the Diasboro. We had a really bad first five minutes, but we did haul ourselves back and won the last 89 minutes 1-0. We played the ball quite well, tackled fiercely but fairly and were the better team. Now for a winning streak!
The top three places are already nailed on and Cardiff's team is always scoring plenty so Ive got them 4th they have a game in hand too. Leicester are looking good with 2 games in hand so its the Swans place 6th we are chasing.
Unfortunetly we are making a poor job of it. I wouldnt have let Digard go to replace him with Hoyte. I didnt rate Osborne either. I think we are gonna fall short due to Strachan's poor start at the club.
There is nowt to brag about regarding the draw with Ipswich .
Richards comments about points a game got me leafing through my Boro book.
Big Jacks team won 27 and drew 11 out of 42 games to get promotion. That is 92 points with four games left in todays terms. You forget how dominant we were and we lost our first home game against Fulham by 1-0.
But that doesnt get us into contention for this years play offs, history is all well and good but we do need to start winning. Ipswich were unbeaten in the previous nine home games but drew six of them, a 1-1 draw was hardly a surprise
Tomorrow night is another game we would have lost under Gate and GS2. A hard working team who have steadily risen up the table from bottom since Robbins came in mid September. They were bottom with one point after six games, the following 22 games have netted 38 points and now they are one point ahead of us having played a game less.
A team like like Leicester or Watford who will close us down but play some football when given the chance. So we have to repeat the exciting football we played to turn those teams over whilst Gate was still here.
Oops, sorry, we lost those games. How remiss of me, we have been equally as bad under both models of GS against hard working teams with a bit of skill.
What we could do without is any more bizarre formations. They should be able to play anywhere as someone posted earlier. But maybe not at 100% and it doesnt take much to take the edge off the game.
Franks or Bennett would make a better fist of it at left sided midfield, Hoyte be better on the right rather than centre mid. Lets not repeat the same formation, it must be something about getting the requisite coaching qualifications.
Hoopfully (it was inadvertent first time) we will have more of our Celtic colleagues on the pitch for tomorrows match and a more balanced formation.
Clearly very few posters take much notice of reserve game match reports.
Taylor has managed several reserve games earlier this season and at the back end of last when he lost his place in the first team. In all of these he had played left midfield with various of our young fullbacks operating behind him. So Strachan had every reason to expect better from him than he got in that role.
Hoyte is another matter however.
Re: the first goal. I just saw Wheats' interview at Boro World. He said he hesitated after the goalie shouted to take it. Seeing the repeat of the goal I truly agree - where did Coyney run to? Not direct towards the ball but at Wheater!
If we play 4-4-2 we have the following players available:
Up front: Killen/Miller; MacDonald/Lita
LM: Franks/Robson RM: Aliadiere/Flood
CM: O'Neil/Walker; R Williams/Arca
LB: Taylor/Bennett RB: McMahon/Naughton
Central Defence: McManus/Poggy; Wheater/Grounds
Goal: Coyne/Steele/Jones
So are we so short of personnel, really? We still have Riggott, Hoyte, Emnes and some loan midfieders coming I assume. A left winger and a playmaker could do, of course. Great! Up the Boro!
The true curse of Rockcliffe seems to be the one which gets seemingly level-headed Managers and coaches thinking that their 3rd choice right back (or 1st choice left back?) can be a midfield dynamo!
Seriously, football is not a complicated game. Pick 11 players who can play well as a team, in their logical, most fancied positions. If you have superbly good players like Rooney - put them anywhere, if you have run of the mill players - don't challenge them.
Obviously we don't get the full picture because we don't see training, don't know how match fit people are, or whether they are carrying a little niggle - but that first half selection was still bizarre.
Studying the teamsheet before the game and trying to slot them into a formation must have been harder than a broadsheet cryptic crossword! If it were me, I would have gone with Flood and O'Neill through the middle, Naughton on the right (with Mcmahon fullback), and on the left - well, there isn't much to choose from, but Franks would be top choice.
Let us hope that GS2 has seen enough now and won't be fooled again! As Richard and others have said, an unbeaten run is fine - but you only have to listen to people like Roy Keane to know that draws aren't enough. We could do with starting a 4 match winning run! Let's hope it starts tomorrow.
Interesting that there are still people asking why we didn't bring Mido back. That he could still do a job for us.
This is the same Mido who has scored just 34 goals in 139 games since his Ajax heydays (let's remember that Alves scored freely in Holland). That's not exactly a strike rate to be trusted is it? He scored just once in 15 games for Zamalek so what makes anyone think he could make an impact for us in the Championship? There's no doubt he has ability but it's no good if there is no consistent application.
Onto the game...good to see us fighting back and showing some resolve to draw rather than lose as we would have done a few months ago. Some strange selections from Strachan but let's hope that with everyone fit and available we see a consistent team which can build on these results. 4 games unbeaten is not to be sniffled at considering our recent form.
The players that were played out of position.... obviously Wee Gordon thought that they were better than they actually are It won't be long before they will be shown the door..
A good result, if not one that helps our play-off hopes. You just get the feeling that things are slipping away, we've left ourselves too much to do. We are all talking about winning most of our home games between now and the end of the season, does our home form up to now really suggest that is likely?
I hate labelling games as 'must-win', but we really could do with 6pts this week, particularly with the run of games after that: Blackpool a, Forest a, QPR h, Cardiff a, Newcastle h.
However, if we are still in touch after the game with the Geordies, we then have seven games in 25 days, four at home (Reading, Preston, Palace, Sheff Wed), and three away (Derby, Watford, Plymouth) - all below us I think? We could really push on there - but only if we are still in touch, which I imagine means no further away than we are now.
Danny Coyne didn't cover himself in glory for the Ipswich goal, now the excitement of his recall has died down, I hope we don't end up realising that the best goalkeeper at the club (don't laugh) is not even on the bench, with his confidence shot to pieces, while the one in the team is out of his depth.
Justin Hoyte in central midfield was just baffling. I don't think Josh Walker is the answer, but he must find it incredibly depressing to be on the bench, while a right-back unimpresses in his position.
Also, I'm not sure how GS2 can keep a straight face while he bemoans the lack of bodies in midfield considering he was happy to ship a load out. Digard and Yeates would have come in very useful on Saturday surely?
In training ground practice games Hoyte would have been up against Boro's other midfielders like say Arca.
Nuff said.
Did anybody see Phillips two finishes against Wolves yesterday? Well we can dream can't we?
Cardiff are not consistent enough; they win 5-1 and reverse 5-1 too. Had a look at the fixtures for next few weeks the top three are playing a lot of our rivals and so are we so lets do it imagine supporting the Mags for the rest of the season cant even say it without choking. Whatever it takes.
AV, sorry to sound like a broken record, but can you get a definitive answer on whether or not we are still paying part of Mido's wages?
**AV writes: It has been asked and there is as yet no 'definitive' public answer but our understanding is that Boro are paying the balance of Mido's wages (that is the bit that West Ham are not paying and they say they are only forking out ã1,000) but that the Hammers have paid an undisclosed fee to arrange the loan.
I would assume that Mido is on ã25,000 basic (he won't be getting any appearance fees or bonuses). If West Ham have paid ã250,000 that is ten weeks wages, while ã500,000 will fund him up to the summer and his return for his last year. I can't see them going any higher than that as they have big problems.
Sorry we can't be more specific but finances is "Keith's domain" and he has not been available to the press over the past week or so. It'll all come out in the wash.
No live blog to follow and was out till too late on Saturday/Sunday to see the highlight so I'm not commenting from any position of knowing how things were, other than I have taken what I can from all the reports.
I'd agree with with line about it being a positive thing that we didn't crumble after an awful start. But more so that we could turn things around and perform better in the 2nd half.
I've done my sums and I have us now managing a total of 71 points. Probably not enough. So I hope to be wrong, although it is so tight, that this could be one of those years that a relatively low points total will get you into 6th place. We'll see how we do tomorrow night against Barnsley.
AV, are there any reliable rumours or ideas about who Strachan is looking to bring in on loan? Left side of mid-field is essentlal, but will he be looking for a keeper?
**AV writes: Plenty of rumours, Bryan Hughes among them. One major target has been shut off until the summer now and I don't think they can bring in a loan from outside England so you can forget Nakamura.
I feel no matter what strachan does he is going to be heavily criticised by some of the posters on here and especially on other boro blogs ..give the man a chance for gods sake !
I have said all along I dont think we would make the play offs. Of course I hope we do but Its not a disaster if we dont. I dont think people realise what a mess wee gordon has had to sort out.
With reference to Wee Gordon being manager at Celtic ...I am sick of people going on about Celtic being in a Mickey mouse league and anybody could manage Celtic...ha ha. Ask Martin O'Neill and especially Mowbray. Dont forget Celtic play to 60,000 fans every home game not 17,000. No pressure there then eh and have had many memorable champions league nights.
Ok so there is only two teams who win the league in Scotland...so be it...the other teams can hardy barely survive in this present climate and yet when they play the big two they do raise their game.
Also dont forget the population of Scotland is only 5 million ..same as London !
So not bad for a small country. While I am in top gear here can I just say yes I am proud to be Scottish but because I live here I support Boro through and through
Yet dozens of people born and bred in this area and you know who they are...they make fun of the boro and walk around with either man u tops / liverpool / arsenal etc...
One thing wee gordon will bring to the Riverside is pride and passion something that has been badly lacking in southgates years. I notice he admitted he was wrong in playing Hoyte out position in the first half. Great honesty Gordon
Did we ever hear southgate say he was wrong ? All we got was three years of 'we must learn from our mistakes '
So come on guys give the wee man and the team the support they deserve.
Last note to Man u supporters from Teesside..do you know which colour your team plays in ?
If that is the case AV, then our very own Sam the Sham of the Pharaohs is still getting a pretty penny. It is the comments of people like Chris Kamara and lazy journalists that are really getting up my nose.
Hows this for a team?
Goal - Schwarzer
Back - Parnaby, Woodgate, Huth, Quedrue
Midfield - Johnson, Boateng, Cattermole, Downing,
Forwards - Tuncay Yakubu
All ex Boro, all currently in the Premiership - with Mido, Barmby (!) and Murphy on the bench.
I note with interest on SSN, that Aston Villa's Osbourne, who according to Strachen, was recalled because of an injury crisis and although Strachen wanted to extend his loan to BORO, Villa refused as they needed him, is about to join QPR on loan for the rest of the season.
I would respect the BORO management more if we got told the truth instead of constant unnecessary spin.
Braveheart a very passionate post from the heart and a good read!
I personally felt very disappointed that WGS didn't impose himself on the squad he inherited from the off despite the mess. Instead he actually managed to bring things down and his lack of awareness about Jones until it took two consecutive calamitous games which seriously damaged the lads career and our play off hopes with them. The same appears to be happening with Hoyte at the minute and young Walker being overlooked doesn't help.
All fans have opinions and as the posters on here illustrate you will never get everyone to agree. By and large Boro fans are pretty astute and had MFC addressed issues earnestly 2 years ago instead of sticking their fingers in their collective ears we would still be in the Prem.
Sadly the warnings were ignored then and WGS would be wise to listen to the fans more than his Coaches or Scouts as they are part of the bigger problem. Nobody has given WGS more stick than me but that's because the weaknesses and errors are patently obvious and frustrating and no doubt influenced by his Staff around him telling him things like "He's a great shot stopper".
WGS needs to stop the experimental dabbling and stick to hard faced footballing principles to win over the sceptics. I want nothing more than to extol his virtues but since his arrival he has flattered to deceive and now he has to deliver. I will be there tomorrow night screaming myself hoarse cheering on my Boro, all I want in return is common sense in tactics and selection and 100% committed but organised and disciplined effort.
As you point out he needs to be given a chance but he has made a stick to beat himself with to date. Wee Gordon has to start delivering and immediately, lets hope he proves the doubters like me wrong otherwise there are no winners on Teesside!
Let's hope tomorrow is a Happy Birthday for Gordon.
Hopefully a MacDonalds Happy Meal.
Most Boro-following realists will have put the notional ambition of a possible "top-two" finish onto the back-burner a while ago. So just to put some statistical "firmness", even if it's not yet actually arithmetically fully set in concrete into the mix:-
West Brom, on a current points per match basis, are looking most likely to finish in 2nd with a projected 89 points. If we were to assume that it would take 90 points to finish ahead of that projected 2nd position points total, Boro would be unable to attain that. The best we could arithmetically to achieve would, in fact, be 89 points and to do so would require Boro to win every remaining match (avoiding administration and other points- deductible offences, along the way).
This is, admittedly, very hypothetical and is only one scenario out of goodness knows how many combinations and permutations that could theoretically happen over all the remaining matches, but it's an unwelcome little milestone that has been reached.
Not one to be rejoiced, like a new record, "483-post' Untypical Boro blog!
Ian M's team at 5.49pm wouldn't be far from our best team over the Premier League years. If it played our current team it would have to declare at half time.
If we'd had the coaching staff to get the best out of those players then we wouldn't have needed to get rid of them and ended up in our current position. If we'd managed ourselves better we surely would have received much more in transfer fees for those players who left for an undervalue or nothing at all because we thought they had little left to offer despite their still performing in the Premier League (Schwarzer, Parnaby, Quedrue, Boateng and Cattermole).
Anyone here remember the "we won't buy anyone unless they're better than what we already have"? I suppose there MIGHT be an argument for suggesting O'Neill could nudge aside Boateng now a further year has passed, but bearing in mind the cracking goal our old midfield warhorse scored last weekend against Manchester City, that isn't certain. But how many of our current team would get into the 5.49 team?
Bearing in mind the fact we have dispensed with such a team, we must be rolling in money! Aren't we?
Dormo:
To make the comparison all the more poignant (or just plain silly), 5.49 isn't even half the team it used to be! Well, kinda, sort of, -ish!
Braveheart,your wasting your breath. Boro have a solid base of about 15000 fans and always have. Then they have the ones who go to watch the other teams they play, then the ones who go to cup games, then the ones who go when they look like they may bring some success and then the ones who go when they are in a semi finals or finals.
Trouble is the ones who call the radio stations or write in with the moans and groans (not constructive critisism) are the ones heard most. It took me a long time to realise that we will never match the makems and skunks when it comes to loyalty.
Steve Gibson has made some wrong choices (not many) but if one chairman needs the SO CALLED fans now, HE does. HE gave TEESSIDE a club to be proud of. I wiil always have an opinion on certain players and managers, we all should, but come on... Norwich are getting 25000 in league one. Thats support.
What does the club have to do? Get to the ground and back the man who at least gave you a dream.
Well said foreverdormo.
Whenever I ask where all the money went, all I get is told off for asking such questions. All I know is that it was a hell of a lot of money coming in from transfers. TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.
**AV writes: It's no mystery. The dosh went on paying a debt built up by a ã30m+ wage bill for a decade and paying big money for ageing players with no resale value.
Dormo - yes, but how many of that team had our fans also decided weren't good enough? Schwarzer being the obvious one, who half of the Riverside decided was past it three years ago (at least).
Forever Dormo:
I think part of the problem was not the coaching staff, who during the McClaren era at least got some good performances out of some of those legends (Yakubu, Boateng and Schwarzer in particular), but the whole contract negotiation side of things.
Schwarzer ran down his contract, Boateng was deemed to old (and too expensive in wages), Queudrue was "replaced" by Pogatetz (I even remember the mfc website doing an article where they indicated that Pog could replace Frank as the new fans favourite!).
I think if you took a poll of those transfers out in recent years which we've really not done well out of, you would get some interesting results. For me, the top 3 sales/releases which, for various reasons, weren't beneficial to Boro were:
1. Cattermole - even though he was rash, and will miss 4-5 games a season through suspension, if we'd had half of his passion last season we probably would have survived.
2. Schwarzer - not offering him a new 2-3 contract was suicidal - despite the new monetary world.
3. Young - can't argue with the fee, and would still have sold him, but his "thief in the night" style disappearance, and the ill-thought and ill-researched "replacement" was poor management.
**AV writes: Can't argue with Cattermole (well you can but that is a much trodden road) or Young but the consensus at the time was that Schwarzer was well past his best, he could catch a cold, every shot was going in and that he was holding the club to ransome with his demands.
The problem with transfers out is not that they happened as you could understand (even if you didn't agree with) the rationale for all of them. The problem was that none of the big departures was adequately replaced.
Richard
484 and counting. GHW, Dormo and Herr Werdermund are even now sat with their browsers open, alledgedly.
Dont look back in anger, gents, regarding the past team.
Schwartz was reingivorated by the job move and wanted an extra 10k a week plus a three year deal (or something like this) as mentioned on this blog in the past. Considering his attitude in some games it was better he left. He has refound some form at Fulham but would he have found it at Boro?
Parnaby - cannot get a game at Bham and wasnt great at ours.
Woodgate - SICK NOTE and sick at the moment - he used the club to get back to the Prem - the club used him, money back wages gone off the bill, Spurs pay his treatment - great business.
Huth - SICK NOTE - good player when he played which was not often enough for us. Was there to get us relegated.
Frank - Wanted a new challenge - fell out with SG? Utter rubbish in Eindhoven!
Johnson - massive shame he left but understandable
Boateng - past his best, maybe could have gone on an extra year, did not want to play second fiddle in the team so fair enough
Cattermole - trouble in the area had to move on to grow up a bit, his move aided his development
Downing - no need to say anything
Tuncay - great guy wanted to play top flight normally always fought hard for the cause
Yakubu - dummy spitter - the game against Wigan was disgusting. Fair play you want to move but dont simply pass to the opposition - Splitter (Life of Brian Reference nothing else - let it through AV)
So as much as you can say how did we lose these players - some had to move, some wanted to move, some we would have wanted to stay.
A move often helps the player - change of scenery, area, maturity. Beacuse they get success elsewhere we shouldn't be angry about it or shout at the board. Players have huge power. if they want to move beacuse another manager has blown smoke up their backside like Moyes - Yakubu - this is the joy of the beautiful game!
Looking forward to seeing some midfielders come in on loan and Scotty D banging in the goals for us.
COB!!
Anthony
I would suggest that you read the Evening Gazette site (last one yesterday Strachan) and the comment from CB1983. It appears you are not very good. Here is part of my response to him.
WOW You are getting very cynical my friend. We will not pass each other on the motorway I actually live in the BORO and have done all of my life. Unfortunetaly have to travel for work these days, as most of our industry on the river and steelworks are now closed down.
I had hope before the start of the season and bet the BORO, however, they let me down badly by not even scoring a goal in most games, so it is not only now my friend. Also paid my dues as a season ticket holder.
Also many of us on this website actually like Anthony Vickers, because if you read his BLOG he speaks truthfully regarding the poor displays, he does not wear rose coloured glasses. So i think he does a good job. Thank you Anthony, you know what they say." you can please all of the people" Thanks for the debate my friend CB1983 over and out. Enjoy the game, get there early enough you might get a game, if Strachan decides to put square pegs in round holes again ah ah (only joking)
**AV writes: Thanks for fighting my corner but I wouldn't worry too much. I'm big enough and ugly enough to take any flak. It's part of the job.
There are not many things in football that give me more more pleasure than watching Schwarzer 'in action' immediately after a shot goes by him into the net. It is a study in choreography, posturing, ham-acting. It is hard to find someone who seems to care less about the outcome of a football match (not necessarily a bad thing).
I really love watching him. I think it may be because it's a trip down memory lane where when playing on 'the rec' and taking your turn in goal you let one float past you so that you get out of goal and back onto the field and play real football. Mark is a kindred spirit in that sense. The ball trickles by, I have both feet firmly planted, I raise both arms in a gesture that says "what could i do"?
Oh dear, ahh well, never mind -your turn Tony....."
I get as much joy out of watching Mark as I get out of watching Stewart Downing and Adam but for different reasons. I really love it when he barrels into the net like a mediocre acrobat seconds after the ball has settled snugly in the net. Genuine theatre. Marvelous, worth ã40 of anybody's money
AV hits the nail on the head about the the problem was not the moves out of the club, it was what was done as they left.
We actually debated it on this board as the fateful window closed in August 2008. Gambles were being taken that were fraught with danger.
The two key ones were firstly stripping out midfield and replacing it with one injured Frenchman for the future. And that is the role he played for 18 months.
The second was not replacing Swarzer and than having decided not to bring anyone eventually getting Jones into the first team. The buys that autumn were very poor and did nothing for the team.
But we cannot keep looking back, we have to focus on the here and now, starting against Barnsley tonight.
AV, Uncle Eric hints at loan arrival being imminent. Is this to be an exciting attacking midfielder, perhaps even South American or is it Brian Hughes?
Players in and players out and what we spent on them and what we paid for them and why the un-balance ..... We're interested because we care for the club, but I suppose the reality is that we will never know the truth of negotiaions between players / managers/ chief execs / chairmen ... oh and of course, not forgetting the agents.
What was interesting about this last transfer window was the way in which Strachan actually got (most of) his men. That experience was something we'd almost forgotten at Boro. However, as recorded many times on the transfer window blog, there is credit for that to all the team (Strachan, Lamb, Gibson and others).
Club loyalty is a rare commodity these days, so we have to accept that players will come and go. I don't suppose we would even be debating this as an issue for Boro, had the exiting players been adequately replaced and we were still bobbing along mid-Premiership.
Like AV said, the real problem has been us not replacing players who had to move on for any of a range of good and legitimate reasons, with players who were up to the same or a similar mark.
Hopefully the experience of the January transfer window can give us some confidence that those mistakes won't be happening under this regime. I'm looking forward to seeing how New Boro (I like that, but can't find it now to give the credit!) are going to perform at home. Robson comes back, which is good, but I guess we all want to hear that MacDonald can make his debut.
AV, will the live blog be happening tonight ?
**AV writes: I hope so. I'm not in the office today but I assume the cyber-geeks are fashioning a button thing.
Boro Doug:
Some excellent points made with the rose tints well and truly off! I agree with all of them. The failing with MFC in all of that is that there was no continuity from our scouting staff to phase in replacements 6 to 12 months before these contracts and or rebels were up.
There have been no "finds" at all from our Scouting network despite when Gordon McQueen took over we were told we had one of the best scouting networks in Europe. What or who exactly have our Scouts unearthed apart from "the Project" who wasn't exactly cheap!
Our failings in my opinion was this complete lack of ability to identify and recruit new talent in far flung corners. I remember reading a Gazette article around two years ago how McQueen was scouting the Dutch and Belgian leagues for the very best new talent, well where are they?
Perhaps instead of Northern Europe he should have been in Southern Europe and Africa looking for new talent. Looking at benchmarking with say Arsenal and Chelsea its pretty obvious we were looking in all the wrong places. I'm just grateful for Dave Parnaby getting on and making the most out of the local lads otherwise we would be in even direr straits right now.
**AV writes: It isnot always simple though, especially against the background of financial belt-tightening. The ones they have found - Duffour and Witsel at Standard Liege for instance - wanted stupid money and as soon as a PL club came in their clubs moved the price one decimal place.
So, Wheater is injured now, and GS2 reckons we will have at least one full-back in midfield. Robson on the left, Hoyte on the right? Grounds at CB, Taylor at LB? Not too bad, I suppose. Naughton/Hoyte could even swap on the right hand side.
I imagine we are all desperate for McDonald to play, but you have to think that if he was unfit for Saturday, it isn't going to be much different today.
Hope we have a decent crowd tonight, and get a good atmosphere.
Has Mosso Cloudfile's work permit been sorted out yet AV?
**AV writes: Late fitness test?
Is it me? Is it me?
........oh bugger!
Posted on the wrong thread!
I would be delighted if we secured Bryan Hughes I have admired him for years and was surprised he didn't achieve more in the game.
He reminds me of Florent Malouda who is a marvelous example of a professional footballer. An authentic team player who must be the best player in the world to play alongside - Skilful, Clever, Tough, Fit and Modest. I'd hate to be a right winger playing against Malouda and Ashley Cole - you'd need your kevlar body armour for that one.
Back to Hughes I remember him having a really good game when we thumped Charlton in the cup. He's skilful and he's no softy !
BRING BACK Tony McMahon NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My view is that many managers today are not big enough to cope with a good academy - they are frightened of them, the successful academies threaten the managers fragile ego's. They don't like being told by a mere academy director that "we think this lad will go far if given a chance..."
BRING BACK Tony McMahon NOW !!!!!!! Or else.....
I see Cardiff have a winding-up peitition scheduled for tomorrow that they are desperately trying to negotiate a way out off. Are we allowed to hope they fail, fall into administration and lose 10 points, thus helping our chances?
Bryan Hughes? Probably OK at this level but I wouldn't have had him in a lucky bag in The Prem. Even Mr. PermaTan at Hull agrees with that. To whatever 'qualities' he has, you can add 'cynical clogger'. Yes, we need to be able to dish a bit out but it's the 'cynical bit' that I don't really like and we've got enough managing with avoidable red cards with Robson.
But he can't be the 'imminent' loan, surely - he's been paid off and is now a free agent. If we signed him after the alleged trial then he'd be on a Boro contract.
If Strachan plays Hoyte wide right (or left) tonight - and, surely, he can't have meant Tayls (he may be needed at left back anyway) - rather than Jon Franks or, as second choice, Joe Bennett he needs his bumps feeling.
Particularly when we are at home in a game we need to win and Barnsley are short of defenders.
Barnsley have big selection problems at right back. I hope no one tells them we havent anoyne who can play left midfield. Maybe we should suggest we play ten men a side?
Apart from the humour this could be an apportunity to play 4-3-3 and have have Franks on the left side of MacDonald and Killen. The midfield three could be Flood, O'Neill and Robson.
If we can keep their defence stretched it will take a lot of the pressure off our own. The team can then press up and control the game.
Congrats to the 500 man over on the super blog, maybe AV can arrange for a cap with a D on it for GHW?
scoredraw....
Tony McMahon was left out of the starting line-up to give him a rest since he's been carrying a few knocks. Strachan said the availability of Naughton meant he could give Tony McMahon a rest to try and get over the knock rather than keep playing him through it. Let's see whether he brings him back in tonight or continues with him on the bench.
On McMahon's form, I would praise him for his defensive ability but would love to see him go back to the way he played when he first came onto the scene. Lately, he just seems to launch hopeful balls in the air, especially down the wing when a simple pass on the ground would be better for ball retention.
Looking forward to the game tonight but I am a bit concerned about some of StrachanâÂÂs comments âÂÂBeefed up Boro ready to mix it with BarnsleyâÂÂ.
Whilst the squad did need some beefing up, Barnsley are not just a physical outfit. The way they turned things around at Oakwell shows that they are a good team. Lest not get too focussed on being big and strong, in fact lets not pay too much attention to the opposition at all. We need to find our own style of play and be comfortable with it.
Barnsley will give us a good test tonight, not just physically. They are a much underrated team and tonight will be far from easy.
Strachan also hints that he is on the verge of another signing. Come on AV who is it? Hughes?
To paraphrase a famour quote, it sounds like Peter Risdale has been careless rather than unfortunate if the second club he is in charge of is going into administration - why does living the dream always have to turn into a nightmare.
Whether a ten point deduction for Cardiff will help Boro's play-off chances is debatable - afterall, Crystal Palace got a ten point deduction but are now only five points behind us with a game in hand - Cardiff would then be only three points behind with a game in hand.
Let's hope that the new look Boro can start winning games - though this may depend on whether McDonald is ready to play but he's still going to be short of match fitness even if he starts. Plus, where is the man for all positions - Justin 'the team' Hoyte - going to play tonight?
Anyway, I shouldn't complain as at least we should see a team performance again tonight - I'll go for a solid 2-0 victory.
Nakamura on way to Boro. Probably unveiled tonight
I see Sullivan is talking about big wage cuts at West Ham at the end of the season, it is good to know that Midough is cushioned from such activity.