Ticket Gamble? Let's Hope Boro Pay Up
I THINK it was Les Dennis who faced with a far fetched proposition once said: "If it's there I'll give you the money myself." There is a hint of that in Boro's Christmas half-season offer - buy a ticket now and if Boro win all their first four games after Santa's been we'll give you your money back.
You can't blame them for trying, that's the name of the game marketing wise. It is an inventive approach in what must be a rapidly deminishing market. Most loyalists are already hand-cuffed in (and some of them aren't going to games!) and the feel-bad factor is so entrenched in Teesside now it will be hard to find many takers who actually believe they will be quids in on this one.
Boro's recent form - two points from 12 under Strachan - suggests that a sudden upturn in form that will leave Boro out of pocket is very unlikely. For the first two of those games they will be without Preston gardening leave absentee Sean St Ledger and after the opening pair of games Dave Kitson, Marcus Bent and possibly Isaiah Osbourne will be gone, although replacements may well be lined up by then.
So there are things far likelier than Boro shelling out on this one... Thierry Henry being awarded the Freedom of Dublin, Bernie Slaven being handed the manager's job, Jedward winning the Mercury prize... and besides, they are insured against that with the financial market equivalent of bookies laying off big stakes at long odds.
Predictably there have been squeals from existing season ticket holders, something I have never really got my head around. Presumably the same people complain to Marksies when the shoes they bought four months ago appear in the sales.
Surely any move to get more people in the ground is a good thing. And presumably people understand the maths of a season ticket - you are getting a massive £6 a game discount already. People who take up this offer get exactly the same discount plus a raffle ticket with long odds. Are the people complaining about the calculated insult all ra-ras who believe there is a good chance of the gamble coming off? Because it sounds to me like they are veteran creative moaners who grab any stick to beat the club with and who normally are convinced Boro are a crisis wracked basketcase doomed to failure.
If Boro have to pay up (to what, 200 people?) that means the promotion bandwagon is rolling again and we should all be jubilant. Shouldn't we?
**********
SIGN of the times: Boro spent "just" £500,000 on agents fees in the period between October 2008 and September 31st this year. But wait: the only permanent incoming transfers in that period have been Mark Yeates (£750,000) plus freebies Leroy Lita and Danny Coyne.
Suddenly the "just" seems hugely disproprotionate. Half a million in commission on a £750k spend? Of course, it is not that simple. The chances are that the vast majority of the spend was on agents engineering moves OUT of the club.
How much money would have been needed to perusade Tuncay's entourage that putting the number-crunching work in on the career enhancing Stoke deal was worthwhile? Likewise, it will not have been cheap doing the paperwork to set up Mido's loan exile. Or to arrange for Alves to transfer his goal machinery to Qatar.
You expect maybe 10% of most incoming transfer fees to go in various directions when setting up a big money move. Expect but not neccessarily condone. Or even be comfortable with. Most agents are parasites and as they act for the players they should be paid by the players and not the clubs (but we've had that discussion before).
But as you go down the value spectrum surely moves start to become a formality. I can't see much work for an agent to organise in Yeates move from Colchester... image rights, overseas media licencing, negotiating the end of binding sponsorship commitments in the Essex area. Hardly back-breaking work. Likewise the Lita and Coyne deals: yes, even free transfer have their contractual complexities but it is not the deal of the century.
The figures are complicated by the case of Sean St Ledger who arrived on loan in September in a convoluted deadline busting deal that in the Championship's worst kept secret will revert to a permanent £4.5m deal in January. How large an agents commission - if any -has been paid to come up with that formula we can only guess. You would hope that the any such payment would not be made until the deal goes through in the next window. But who can tell in the shadowy world of football facilitation fees.
So we can safely say that the majority of the half-a-mil will have been spent on arranging the departures of players who were desperate to escape the Championship debris of a car wreck season they were at least partly responsible for. And to be fair, for the club, shelling out that sum to unshackle themselves from a prohibitive toxic wage millstone probably represents good value for money.
But that sum handed to agents - a figure equivalent to the 66% of the total transfer spend so far this season - and the list released today of Premier League clubs payments to agents raises some interesting points.
For instance, it shows how far down the money tree Boro have fallen. Contrast the agent spend in the past year with the shocking commission of £3m agreed for just one deal back in 2004. Yes £3m... that could be next season's total transfer kitty. If we're lucky.
That outrageous commission was what "super agent" Pini Zahavi wangled for himself after arranging the £7.5m transfer of Yakubu from Portsmouth to Boro in 2004. It wasn't up front though, it was to be paid in instalments and he only got top whack if the 23-28year old Nigerian stayed for the full five years... so his exit wasn't all bad news then.
The headline grabbers in the big league table are Manchester City. The rich mans' plaything threw money around like the property boom in Dubai was going out of fashion as the new owners set out to sign a real life Fantasy Football team. Having spent 116 squillion megabastardpetrodollars on fees they also paid £12,874, 283 to agents.... that is comfortably more than the £11.2m parachute payment clubs who fall off the gravy train get in consolation.
Boro, Newcastle, West Brom and Sheffield United aside, it is also higher than the total annual wage bills of all the other Championship clubs. Most clubs operate on total turn-overs well below that mark... Cardiff have a turnover of £9m, Forest and Crystal Palace £8m, Watford, Preston and Plymouth £7m. And it is far, far higher than most long term, medium ranking Championship clubs could dream of paying in annual wages.
Agents fees are one of the factors that feed football's debt boom too. Look at the agents' payment table. West Ham are up to their necks in debt and twice last season almost went under... yet they splashed out £3.5m to agents. Likewise Pompey and their conveyor belt of would-be owners. They narrowly avoided receivership several times in the summer and have failed to pay their players and staff on a couple of occasions - yet they too have handed a ridiculous £3.184m to agents. That will help.
And how can Wigan, who operate on average crowds less than 20,000 and who are are on the box less than Boro ever were, pay agents £5.5m in one year? That is more than their record fee. That is the route that the Hammers and Portsmouth went down. It is the path to financial disaster.
We are well out of it that particular vipers nest. You can say that we would be back there like a shot and writing cheques out willy-nilly again given half a chance but having cleared the decks I hope Boro never go back to those days, paying parasites vast sums to bring half-hearted mercenaries in on short-term term deals designed to reliev us of as much money as possible.
The Championship has given us much to think about and has injected a painful dosh of reality - but it has also given us a chance to reimagine the way we operate as a club.
******
ARTICULATE footballers: fantastic blokes who make my job easy. Dave Kitson is brilliant to interview. He's my new favourite footballer (move over Poggi). Not only is he much needed injection of Titian but he is our best interviewee since the dark day George 'Five Intros' Boateng walked out of the door.
Kitson has crystal clear officer class diction untainted by an accent with pretentions to pseudo-ghetto cool making transcribing it all back later on a doddle. That is not always true of say, Julio Arca, who is a lovely fella but at times indecypherable (and the problem actually gets worse if you use the 'slow' function on the dictaphone.
He has an extensive vocabulary ("ascendency" ... I'm loathe to say it but not even Gareth Southgate used to say ascendency ) and uses it appropriately which makes for crisp copy that speaks for itself. You don't need to explain or frame it, just let it run.
He has a clear grasp of what question has been asked and so he actually answers it, comprehensively but concisely (which is more than you would get from me) and that is always a bonus in these days when most players - and managers - take one or two words from a question and use them as prompt to shoehorn in a string of cliches.
And - gasp - his answers are delivered in a style that is grammatical correct. It comes complete with tight syntax and logical sub-clauses. It has built in punctuation, space and tempo. What a delight. It is fantastic. IIt sings. It means you don't have to cut-and-shut two sentences and change tenses to make a coherent statement. Oh joy.
Can we keep him please?
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Agree with the Kitson point. He's so articulate he sounds more like a solicitor than a footy-playing ex-shelf-stacker and that confidence,along with his attacking threat can only be good for the team. Would be good to get him tied up for the rest of the season. He would walk into an intelligent English footballers XI.
Intelligent english footballers xi. Might be a while to work the other ten out. Have no doubt whatsoever that they can all add up the £££££s though
A few random thoughts on the above.
Did we pay an agent to get Folan? If so are we due a refund? And finally, what the hell is going on with him, he makes Boksic look like a workaholic.
On the way back in to my office it was reported that Palace are in temporary difficulty in paying the players and that Palace have enough money to last until 22nd Dec then may have to suspend trading in their shares.
We have the disturbing, if true, thought of legal action against the club over Gate's payoff. It does put you off going to matches.
On to Vics last piece and the pleasure in interviewing Kitson. Enjoy it while you can because there is no way he is staying with us.
I believe he is settled down sarf and his wife has a succesful career. From the interview in the Northern Echo a little while ago he owes loyalty to his wife because she stuck by him when he was struggling and now she is succesful he doesnt want to mess her career up.
Fair play to the chap, as long as he keeps scoring and contributing until he leaves we can have no complaints. You never know, Folan might be fit and turn out to be the next Drogba.
And Vic may have had a new haircut for Xmas.
Just following on from the previous thread, Ian/John I agree that the ideal is a combination of 'graft and craft' it is the ideal combo. But players who possess both are rare and therefore very expensive aren't they?
I agree Boro's best 11 were the 73/74 team ,but maybe that just shows my age! But as I've said previously that team thrived because as well as Murdoch's nouse and skill it had a world class midfield player who had graft and craft in spades, plus a classy centre back who would have been an England shoe in were in not for the fact he played his football on one knee.
There is no chance of Boro ever having a Souness in the team again, modern football is such that if such a talent flourished in our academy they would be snapped up pronto by some champions league team or other.
Oh and just to round off, seeing a player getting physical/stuck in for your team is just as much fun to watch as a wing wizard delivering killer crosses. In fact a crunching tackle can be game defining, it sets the tone and there is nothing like it to raise the crowds temperature and decibel output.
As for Newcastle thriving they have a goalscorer or two and Smith and Nolan amongst others with plenty of muscle/aggresion.
**AV writes: Newcastle are no different from us in two departments but in midfield have Butt, Barton, Nolan and Smith... workrate, steel, nouse and a nasty streak when needed. That is what we are lacking. Two like that would do.
vic (heart) kitson. IDST.
**AV writes: IDST? LOL. That's literally old school.
Agents!! I've just heard Mr. Silkman on Radio 5 explaining what hard work it is being an agent and how he earns every penny! He also mentioned being involved in the transfers of Huth, Yakubu and Schwarzer, God help us!
As for Mr. Kitson, maybe we could spend the £5m we've saved on agents fees on a helicopter so we can fly him up and down for training!! Anyway what does his wife do for a living that couldn't be done on Teesside!?
Mind you, lets face it, if we signed him on permanently he'd forget how to score.....
**AV writes: Newcastle are no different from us in two departments but in midfield have Butt, Barton, Nolan and Smith... workrate, steel, nouse and a nasty streak when needed. That is what we are lacking. Two like that would do.
Agreed.
Or like Mulumbu at The Baggies.
**AV writes: "Newcastle are no different from us in two departments but in midfield have Butt, Barton, Nolan and Smith... workrate, steel, nouse and a nasty streak when needed. That is what we are lacking. Two like that would do."
I'm unsure about that. Of our 11, I can only really see Adam Johnson getting into their team, and even that wouldn't be a shoe-in.
Also Butt, Barton, Nolan and Smith represent about £18m in transfer fees. Can we afford one of their type and quality, never mind two?
Nigel
Not all the players in this division fall into the craft or graft category. They are not mutually exclusive.
The only one on our books who could fit the bill is Digard. He can put his foot in and play a bit (abducted by Aliens doesnt count so Walker is ruled out). The problem is the latter part because that is all he does, play a bit before getting injured.
I agree that if we developed such a player we would probably lose him, the last one we developed was sold to those powerhouses of Europe, Wigan Athletic.
You can get away with a natural ball player but he has to be quick as well to keep out of trouble. O'Neil apart, we are pedestrian in central midfield so we dwell on the ball and easily brushed aside.
Whatever we talk about here will not affect what happens on the pitch. Until January we have what we have and even in the window it is likely to get worse before it gets better.
Dave Kitson - articulate. The way he thundered in for his second goal on Saturday, articulated (as in lorry) is quite apt.
Bovine creatures - Oxen suffer from parasites feeding off their hides, which in turn require Ox peckers to clean them up. Anyone see the similarities in football and agents? There needs to be more Agent peckers to regulate the obscene amounts of money these people receive in commission.
No I'm not barking! just feeling a little philisophical. Good piece A.V. keep it up.
Why are you writing about agents' fees and Kitson's diction when performances on the pitch are so abysmal?
Surely it would be better use of your pen to comment on the disastrous draw at Peterborough, to highlight the growing disillusionment of the club's supporters and to reinforce the pressing imperative for a dramatic improvement in results over the next five games if the inexorable slide down the league table is to be stopped.
**AV writes: What, like I did on Sunday on here, and Monday in the paper? Sorry to stray off the narrowly proscribed spectrum of discussion for a second. I promise it won't happen again... (thinks: good job I didn't mention the haircut dilemma!)
(thinks: good job I didn't mention the haircut dilemma!)
I hope you aren't wobbling AV!
**AV writes: There is so much gel on there holding the Jedward in place now that wobbling is absolutely impossible. But less of the trivia...
And another thing......
Where's Strachan's much vaunted technical area passion and histrionics? Don't recall seeing much if any in the last four games. It's almost as if he's caught the mood of the fans and the team rather than leading it.
Time for some Ginger Nuts, methinks!
**AV writes: He says he isn't the fiery Scot anymore. He's more chilled now. I think a lot of things are turning out in ways people didn't expect.
AV
If you get some tattoos and fall over when brushing past the water cooler you can pretend you are Aliadiere. Or you can get a quiff and do Elvis impersonations.
I say keep up with the trivia, the football is depressing.
I think a previous poster had a good point regarding St Ledgers 'wayward' tendencies. It's often the case that the player with attacking tendencies escapes criticism because of the occasional goal (see Lescott).
I certainly think that David Wheater is taking too much blame for the defensive lapses. The defence was performing reasonably well and looked tight for the first 7 games. Is it Huth's departure? St Ledgers arrival? or Wheaters form?
I think it's St Ledgers cavalier approach - he certainly concentrated on his defensive duties when playing for Ireland
**AV writes: On your first point I think it is Huth's exit. Wheats has looked at his best when playing alongside a quality organiser who shouted and pointed at him, like Woodgate and Huth, but suspect when he has played as the senior partner and is expected to be the leader.
On the St Ledger question I have wondered about how best to utilise his tendency to carry the ball forward and get involved. Maybe he is a natural sweeper or a defensive midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-3-2. If he is to be a conventional centre-back alongside Wheater there needs to be a lot of work done on the division of roles and responsibilities. It is early days yet thought, they have played barely 10 games together.
**AV writes: He says he isn't the fiery Scot anymore. He's more chilled now. I think a lot of things are turning out in ways people didn't expect.
....or did.
**AV writes: Indeed.
Your Blogs are always uplifting and a great read AV, even if the occasional poster tends to forget that it's alright to focus on other intriguing aspects of all things Boro besides the monotonous drivel being served on the pitch!
Agents need talking about - they are such a drain on our game, it's untrue. In fact, it makes me sick to the stomach how much a drain on footy resources they are.
As for your piece about Dave Kitson, it is refreshing to know that we have someone, albeit very temporary who can articulate so fluently and yet have the steely determination and artfulness to put the ball in the back of the net. Gosh have we missed that kind of player.
When describing his thoughts just before he bundled in the first goal, every Boro player to a man should listen, read and absorb it because not only can he do it with his feet and his head, he can also talk about it too. That is a rare gift and I shall be very sad to see him go back knowing he could be the answer to all our prayers.
The "Slayer of Boro's Goal Drought Demon" ~ Dave Kitson.
AV -
you are a very important (if possibly increasingly hirsute) voice in our current wilderness. Without your blog, I suspect the Club's top brass might allow themselves to feel they had no-one to answer to, or else that the fans were too foolish to worry about.
I would like some evidence soon that they care enough about fans' concerns to answer some of the intelligent, constructive comments you (and we followers) make, even maybe to value the intellectual discipline such critiques demand.
I hope - for the sake of the future of MFC - that they are not hiding their heads in the sand, writing us all off as peasants or seeing us as inimical to the cause. I further hope the management are not considerably more cynical in their strategy (although we do have to wonder, as no coherent or plausible account of recent events has been forthcoming.)
Here's hoping!
AV said: "He says he isn't the fiery Scot anymore. He's more chilled now".
Typical Boro, we want a passionate Manager with fire in his belly and we get him just when he decides he wants to be reborn into a calm and concientious genteel Sassenach!
On the "Agents Fees", methinks it could be part of the "Loan Arrangers" fees for the Saint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink!
**AV writes: You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
Strachan does seem to have quietened down. Is that a worry? Maybe he is thinking twice about whether he really up for the hassle. He did say he didnt need it. He is at an age(been there) when youd rather give advice from the outside rather than be in the thick of it 24/7. Even Souness said the same thing lately
Yes, I agree keep the trivia coming, best not dwell on the footie too much, its not exactly uplifting at the moment.
Ian - somewhat ironically for me is the fact that the tough tackling midfielder we sold to Wigan was the man who put the final nail in our relegation coffin when he made his bone crunching (but legal) challenge on Digard thus ending any impact he may have had on the team and the relegation fight (or lack of) for the remainder of the season.
Halifaxp
If the Kremlin couldnt see relegation coming and the fact Peterborough play in blue what chance is there of Bausor and Lamb sitting in the Counts dank dungeon poring over Untypical Boro. Answers on a used postage stamp.
On the defensive issue, I think it is the departure of Huth that has caused the problems. If we think back to Boam and Maddren, Boam was the hard man and Willie the footballer. Mowbray and Pallister the same relationship.
Huth was the enforcer and organiser, some of his challenges are, shall we say, rather robust. The Rock isnt like that nor is he a talker, Ledge is clearly a footballer. Huth is clearly a loss.
Hopefully the backroom staff are working away to create a strong partnership, Rock Ledge sounds good but can be precarious.
Nigel, one suspects that a challenge from my daughters rabbit would put Digsoft on the treatment table. A collision with Clattermole is a case of the irresistable force meeting a collapsable object. There appears to be greater rigidity in AV's gelled locks than our French midfielder.
As regards Agents fees, this has been on the go for many a year now. Even the young players just coming into football have them, they are not just involved in transfers to and from the club.
David Hodgson used to be one even though he was manager at Darlington (dont know what he is doing at the minute) and any agent who arranged the transfer of Alves out of the club deserves everything he got. what a waste of money that player was.
The manager of the team at present Strachan, what has he got to shout about? The team are as poor as when Southgate was in charge. Maybe he came with good intentions then found out what a mediocre bunch we really had.
I had no confidence in the team that came down and even less after a few games. I hope and pray that we can have an uplift in fortunes but I am still of the opinion that this team is just not good enough.
Jones:- Less than average always as been. Why oh why did they drop Coyne
McMahon:- was good before all injuries now less than average
Taylor:- was good when he had Downing to help up and down the line. now a shadow of his former self.
Wheater:- lost his way after Southgate messed him about, and he is still lost.
St Ledger:- is not the answer, he is beaten to often by mediocre players. time to go back to Preston after loan period.
Digard:- could be ok but to prone to injuries or maybe he is just not up for the fight.
O'neil - a trier and possibly the only decent player at present.
Williams:- out of position in midfield. Right Back should be his position,
Arca:- lost it 3 years ago.
Alliadiere:- never in the team long enough. always injured, a waste of time.
Yeats:- he has proven he is only a 2nd division player not good enough.
Lita:- the chances he has had to score are unbelievable is this Alves in disguise.
Kitson: will score but only here for short term.
Johnson: started off well but now losing his way, maybe he is not a full season player, but probaly our only asset.
I would drop both Wheater and St Ledger and put Riggot and Poltergeist together in central defence, because Poltergeist at Left Back as always been a disaster.
Grounds and Walker and Bennett should all be given a chance.
This is my own opinion and I am entitled to it.The team just are not good enough, even for this league.
Couldn’t agree more about the Trivia. I did try and post an upbeat rallying call yesterday, but it got lost in the ether. Probably for the best as it was a bit foam induced.
Anyway I too am suffering from a hairdo nightmare. Nothing to do with new managers, but lack of gumption and urge to go to the barbers. I’m looking like a brillo pad on legs.
Maybe with the upcoming move into Teesside, a reverse Samson hair cut and the Hex factor finishing on TV we will have a storming second half of the season.
As for agents they are a necessary evil. I know if I had to negotiate image rights etc etc the last person I would want handling them would be my Dad. I’d want a professional, legal eagle, streetwise negotiator. For lower income deals then the agents importance is lessened but why shouldn’t the player have help in getting the best deal.
What’s the alternative, refuse to deal with agents? Where would that lead? Refusing to pay players more than £500.00 a week? Have the players ushering you to you seat before the match? Unused subs giving free coaching lessons to kids after the game.
Now I think about it, these are all good reasons to abolish agents. I’m sure Flavio Briatore will be implementing them in his TOSS venture. Talking of Flavio, don’t be surprised if we see the inaugural multi-ball bar billiard overtime extravaganza at Loftus Road on Saturday.
And a bit of trivia.
Who scored the first ever goal in the English premier league?
Who scored the winning goal the last time Boro beat Notts Forest?
And who alongside former boro favourite/ heartthrob John Hendrie is now an agent for Blacks Solicitors in Leeds?
Agents, they’re not all bad.
**AV writes: My problem is not with agents. Contracts, tax and sponsorship are complex areas so players DO need them.
My problem is clubs paying agents. If they are acting for a player then the players should pay. Simple. Clean. Logical. Anything else is an invitation to opaque double-dealing, unethical clashes of interests and ultimately to corruption.
It should be illegal for clubs to pay agents, either here or abroard, either directly or through third parties. That should be backed by transfer embargoes and points deductions for clubs who break the regulations.
All fees should be paid via a transparent central independent clearing system and all clubs books should be open to forensic random inspection by a watchdog with real teeth. Any smell of rodent over any deal and the player concerned should be suspended completely until the issue is resolved and all paperwork examined.
A.V. Your latest comment on Agents is 100% correct. I agree fully with you. They get the best for the player, so the player should pay.
I agree, why should a club pay the agent when he's working on behalf of the player? I think it's a sign of desperation by the clubs, who seem to say yes to almost anything in order to get a player to sign for them.
Also, it seems agents are also used by some clubs to tempt players out of their existing club behind the scenes (tapping up i think it's called).
It just seems that agents have replaced clubs as being the 'controllers' of where players play and when they move - which given that they generally make their money when a player signs a contract of some description it can only lead to less stability in the game and more debt.
I had an idea a while back that maybe all players should be under contract with the respective league that they play in and then be leased back to the clubs who 'sign' him - the club would then pay all wages, bonuses and fees through the League's administration department.
Talking of Estate Agents and agents fees being paid by the wrong party - here in Germany if you buy a house it's the buyer who usually pays 5% of the house price to the estate agent, even though it's the seller who employed them - which I have also never understood.
Dave Connor
The agent who arranged for Alves to leave the club is probably the same one who represented him when we bought him. Whoever it may be, he is a genius to make money out of a bald, ageing non striker.
Ian Gill hit the nail right on the head re centre-back partnerships.
Maddren was quite happy to play second fiddle to the Boss Stuey Boam irrespective of the relative abilities of the two. Pally similarly with Mogga and if he hadnt found a similar boss figure at Old rafford in Steve Bruce I doubt he would have been such a success there. I would add Vickers and Whyte under the control of Pearson to that list. Southgate had the same with Ugo and over Riggott. As has been pointed out Wheater took his orders from Woodgate, Pog and Huth in turn.
The important point though is that these boss and bossed relationships at centreback happen instantly. Unlike strike-partnerships that have to be nurtured over time the centre back pairing works first time or never.
Either one partner is boss and the other goes where he is told from the first time they play together or it doesnt work. Its not so much playing styles or abilities as personality issues. Wheater - St Ledger doesnt work, it has not worked and it enver will. Neither takes responsibility of leadership. If Wheater is not going anywhere in the window then St Ledger should go back to Preston.
Someone suggested St Ledger is too cavalier and looks like either a sweeper or to play just ahead of the back four. At the risk of a few more square peg comments the latter puts him into the defensive midfielder role and I think he would do a good job there ahead of Pogi-Wheater partnership.
He has the engine to get up and down the middle and the solidness required and also looks capable of putting away the odd chance that might fall to him too. If Osborne is here temporarily St Ledger could take on the job.
I tend to agree with the recent comments regarding a centre back partnership and that Wheater and St Ledger don't work.
On a recent visit back to the region I saw the Derby game and was impressed with Bennett (I think) at left back. What has happened to him since then? Bennett at left back, Pogi + Wheater at centre, Williams and right back.
I also agree with trying St ledger in midfield to sit in front of the centre backs but also to push forward into the opposition box at every opportunity. With Digard / Arca beside him and Johnson and O'Neil on the wings surely we have the ability to push forward but also not get caught cold on the break.
Summarising the views on our central defenders:
1. We are saying that Wheater is only as good as the person he's playing with so long as that person is able to organise him.
2. St Ledger is not really the central defender who's going to get the best out of Wheater.
3. St Ledger might be a better defensive midfielder than he is a central defender as he lacks positional discipline.
So it sounds like St Ledger may not represent the best investment of £4.5m of precious cash - and any decent offer for Wheater in January would represent good business if we don't have a top class partner for him to play with.
So together that would give GS2 about £10m to play with if we followed this through to its logical conclusion.
Ian Gill - 10.31 post very witty! Much respect!
But do you think that the Powers That Be do not consider that useful advice - or, at the very least, a sense of what their public are thinking - might be easily accessible from this forum? Can they really believe that they have everything under control? Or do they, perhaps, not care any more?
I know that sportsmen often do not read the papers in case people prick their bubbles with critical comments, but I have always imagined that business people see the public's opinion, and the press coverage, as a material and significant part of their operation.
If they really don't spend the half-hour or so per day it takes to see what their most committed and articulate fans are thinking, it does seem to me that's tantamount to not really caring about the business.
**AV writes: My understanding is that the salient points from here and other forums are conveyed to the Powers That Be on a regular basis. Whether they take any notice is a different question.
The Academy is our biggest asset and I hope Gordon is true to his word re working with young players. My theory is that there are very talented players all over the UK. Within the catchment area of every club there are talented young players but it's only clubs with decent people in charge of academies that succeed.
Academies staffed by 'football purists' who care about and for the children at their clubs are bound to be more succesful than those who make a judgement (at 12 years old !) based on weight power etc etc.
Coaches that have faith and patience in the kids will reap the rewards. The Boro certainly have the "Right Stuff" at the academy. I suspect that most clubs would have sent those two skinny lightweights (Downing & Johnson) packing at 13 years old for being too little.
Is it any wonder we get certain academies that have more success than others ? When an institution is run by someone as decent a person as Steve Heighway, Paul Hart , Parnaby they will have better chance of harvesting and developing talent and skill than Frank Van What's his name at Chelsea. Our academy clearly sees it's role is to consider the children ABOVE the club which in my view is why we are successful at nurturing good players.
We have got some very good young players at the Boro and if the Academy sticks to its principles we will continue to offer the kids of Greater Teeside an opportunity. Let the kids have chance, encourage them and be calm and patient. With Gordon Strachan in charge we will do well
I have come to the conclusion SG and KL have lost the plot. They sack Southgate after the team beat Derby and one point behind Newcastle then appoint Strachan, who is supposed to fire the players up, and now we are 13 points behind Newcastle. What a joke this club is,i bet Southgate is wetting himself with laughter.
What has Strachan doneas a manager? Nothing with Southampton,or Coventry. Won three titles with Celtic,so what,apart from them and Rangers,there is no competition in the SPL.
No, I think SG has messed up yet again in the managerial stakes, How he runs his business is beyond me, And when January comes and we lose,Johnson, Wheater and O'neil it's going to get worse.
I reckon if the club don't get promoted this season,fans will say enough is enough and leave the club in their thousands. To me the club just lurches from bad to worse each season,as the clubs management so amateurish and unprofessional.
When it comes to the defence, I'll say what I've said umpteen times, we need a settled back five. Williams' suspension scuppered that a bit last week, so from Saturday onwards can we please stick with Jones, Williams, Wheater, St.Ledger, Poga for the forseeable future.
However, if the bad run continues in the next couple of games, I can imagine it would be very tempting to bring maybe Taylor back and particularly Riggott.
GS2 would probably find dropping Wheater or St.Ledger difficult - Wheater could well fancy a move if he is out of the team (assuming there is still interest out there), and he is all set to pay £3.5m for St. Ledger.
Actually, something just occurred to me that will again scupper the settled defence idea - isn't St.Ledger due to go back to Preston in a couple of weeks til January?
**AV writes: I think his 93 day loan deals runs out before Christmas and he will have to "go back to Preston" until January 1 when he will sign a real deal.
Another possibility for the centre-back dilemma, to get the better players in the team and to break the poor run by breaking the mould - and avoiding Pogi at left back - is to play 3-5-2 with Wheats between Ledge and Pogi at the back.
On Saturday, because of Routledge and the need for a wing back, I'd go for Bennett on the left and tuck Johnno in one. From there he can have a more free role to go outside and produce the sort of cross he hit Kitson with last Saturday or cut inside and at their centre-backs.
If you play Rhys Williams at right wing back you can have GON inside him with Osbourne or Digard holding the middle. If GON isn't fit, you could have Hoyte at right wing back and tuck Rhys Williams alongside Osbourne or Digard.
Lita and Kitson up front.
Another point about Strachan's demeanour, aside from him letting his inner Ginger Nut have more free rein! I'd be happier if - in his search for his winning formula - he sounded more certain about what he wanted and less like he was just going through a process of trial and error.
Part of the purpose of rhetoric is that it is intended to convince.
jiffy - I know we're going back in time here (but why not) Maddren didnt play second fiddle to anyone, neither was he a shrinking violet. The team of 73/74 were defined by two class players, Maddren and Souness. Boam was great, Together Boam and Maddren were top class, its a pity we dont have two such players now. If we did supporting Boro would be fun again.
I vote for trivia. It's cheaper and more fun than the football.
I do hope the Powers That Be read, or have conveyed to them, the gist of the comments made in this blog, and other organs of comment (letters to newspapers and even radio phone-ins).
That is NOT because every comment on this blog is correct, or that all human knowledge is to be found here. You could find completely contradictory comments right next to each other if you looked, and they could hardly both be right. And some, hopefully a small minority, are obviously right off the wall.
Much of the rest might be lucidly expressed, sometimes laced with humour, and sometimes written in hot blood straight after a game (for good or bad). The vast majority is written from the heart by the club's most loyal supporters who are desperate for the team to do well. It would not be sensible for any successful business to be deaf to the views and feelings of its customers.
One problem of phone-ins is that a small number of people dominate the airwaves very regularly. Sometimes the old adage "empty vessels make the most sound" is true, and the contributors must be a small, self-confident minority whereas others who hold equally valid views may be too shy to want to put themselves in front of a microphone or telephone.
(Incidentally I remember when I used to listen to the "Three Legends" when that station had coverage of Boro games, hearing a phone call from a very upset and tearful lady Sunderland supporter, a regular caller at that time, who was distraught at the players' gutless performances in a season where they had been relegated from the Premier League almost without a fight.
It was a very moving and powerful call, even for one who doesn't support the Mackems, that should have been recorded and played to the team in the dressing room to show them the effect of what they had done to their own supporters. Of course many of those players will have moved to other clubs to ensure their own careers and personal wealth, whilst many lowly paid employees - the laundry ladies, groundstaff, and others who might have been at the club for years - had to open redundancy letters in the next few weeks. No pay-off or lucrative transfer for them, whatever the quality of their work. That lady will still be supporting the club though. People like that deserve to be listened to.)
Posts to blogs can be written in the contributor's own time, even if the person is too shy to speak in public. Providing they are not obviously insane (and we can all be wrong, even Mr Gibson), and accepting they should not be offensive or unlawful, the comments made by true supporters should help the club to feel the pulse of its own lifeblood, without which it couldn't continue to exist.
Let's be sensible here! Many other large commercial concerns (and even political parties) pay good money for MORI, Gallup and others to carry out consumer research, focus groups, market research and surveys etc. That feedback costs money but here the club gets it for free, and from those who are most interested in the product.
I suppose it is possible for "everyone to be wrong". But if all or a large number of your customers want something other than that which you are providing, the result is going to be obvious - failure. We might not be professional football PLAYERS, but maybe we know as much about having to WATCH football matches as do the "professionals", many of whom freely confess to being poor spectators.
**AV writes: I have made the same point on the many occasions I have been dragged in front of the Politburo accused of thought crimes and sedition.
I've never felt less like talking about the team and the matches. Going to the game is a chore. Talking about Boro is depressing. It just gets me angry. Thinking about where we were three years ago and how close we were to the big time is heart=breaking.
Relegation is really hitting home now. I can't believe how many real Boro lads I know who have been going 20,30,40 years who have just wrapped in this year and I find it very hard to argue against them.
So, about your hair....
Following on from John Powls 3-5-2 poser and the continuing St Ledger debate, I think a 4-3-3 - come - 4-5-1 formation might be a solution.
Perhaps what is needed to assist the Wheater/St Ledger "partnership" is a dedicated holding midfielder who can fill in for St Ledger when he goes forward. Rhys Williams might be ideal at the base of a central midfield three, breaking up play in front of the back four and dropping in alongside Wheater when St Ledger forages forward.
My preference would be for Digard and O'Neill to make up the midfield, with Johnson and Emnes/Aliadiere on the wings and Kitson up front.
I'm getting worried that we're now only a short step away from reaching a consensus that we should encouraging GS2 to be more like GS1 and play six defenders.
Anyway, interesting point by BoroPhil that St Ledger is due to 'return' to Preston in a couple of weeks - I wonder what would happen if a partnership of Pogi and Wheater then kept three clean sheets?
Does St Ledger go on Gardening leave? Or if Preston have a few injuries, coupled with the packed festive fixture list and Preston are presumably paying his wages can they force him to play? Have we agreed that he can’t play for them? Does he train? Will he pull the inevitable hamstring?
Is this the first time a footballer hasn’t had to feign injury to enjoy a ‘normal’ Christmas at home? So many questions, so little time.
I can't believe the logic of the new season ticket offer, surely it should be the other way around.... if we drop any points you will get a discount?
AV is it true that the Boro players are doing their own Nativity play this year? I have heard rumours that the cast will include past and present boro favourites?
King Herod – SG
Three Wise men – KL1, GS2, Eric Paylor
Mary, E Pogatetz (doesn’t let anything get in to the box)
Joseph – D Coyne, a qualified carpenter don’t you know
Jesus – The Saviour Adam Johnno Johnson, Understudy Juninho
Stable Owner – KL1, tight get
Donkey – Tough one, But C Folan showed his pedigree
Gold – Josh Walker - Infrequently seen and elusive
Frankincense – J Arca quite often his performances have left me incensed!
Myrrh – KL1 as it can be used to embalm the dead
Star - Unattainable prize, like the new season card money back offer
Camel – F Ravenelli often got the hump
I may have missed some can anyone help?
OMG
I know I was banging on about Strachan lacking passion, let alone 'Ginger Nuttery' -but now he's gone too far. He's used the 'L' word so beloved of his predecessor!
Mouth scrubbed out with soap and water as my old Granny used to say.
Can I also say that Uncle Eric's bylined piece 'Boro reveal 'money back' offer to fans' in today's Gazette comes as close to editorial advertising or product placement as anything I've ever seen. Is this wise?
ForeverDormo, an eloquent post, which should make a powerful impression on SG and KL if anything can!
I'm surprised the Gazette didn't publish the other offer from the Boro - If you buy a Half Season Ticket and Boro lose their four matches after christmas then they will send each purchaser a free bottle of whisky and a revolver.
**AV writes: I think that one is only open to shareholders and senior staff.
Is it true that Josh Walker has picked up an injury at Northampton and been returned straight to us?
Insert Caleb Folan line here...
Totally agree with you on season ticket holders whinging about ticket offers. I've had a season ticket since 1992 and they could charge £1 on matchday as far as I'm concerned if it would fill the ground.
Smogonthetyne
Inn owner - Sue Watson of sit down and shut up fame.
Shepherds - the stewards, excellant at getting the sheep to lie down.
Sheep - many candidates available including foamees and bed wetters.
Bethlehem - Doggy?
"**AV writes: I have made the same point on the many occasions I have been dragged in front of the Politburo accused of thought crimes and sedition."
Did they use waterboarding and torture? Did you get the knock on the door at the dead of night?
**AV writes: Nothing so crude. Usually it is a pleasant invitation for a clear the air chat on issues where I may have ruffled a few feathers. We agree to disagree. There is no electrodes on gonads or extraordinary rendition to Uzbeckistan.
Once again the club leave themselves open to ridicule with their gimmick offer to sell half season tickets. Not only will it be a washout in my view but have they thought of how it leaves people like me a long standing ST holder who paid up front for the season and could now be substantially worse off by doing so in the [accepted ] unlikely event of these wins happening.
Pre Christmas is a bad time for crowds and next week we have two home games in a week, the second of which is on live TV on a Sunday lunchtime.I would have thought this was a perfect opportunity to offer a crumb of thanks to existing ST holders by giving them an opportunity to buy extra tickets for friends and family at say £5 each as a one off to try to create a favourable impression on live TV and a bit of atmosphere in the ground. Instead the T.V viewers will be watching a game played in front of a half empty ground.
Where is the leadership and direction at our club?Surely Messrs Gibson/Lamb must know at difficult times like these they must to EVERYTHING to keep the hard core 17000 onside. I'm at a complete loss as to understand what goes on at MFC.
I would suggest Messrs Gibson/Lamb look back into their history books from the 70's and 80's. I know it was a different era and there were other issues in play at the time such as hooliganism but support for the club collapsed after relegation in 1981 , the sale of every decent player, ultimately resulting in bankruptcy in 1986.
I dread to even comtemplate a repeat.
Ho Ho HO! - there is no way this half season ticket gimmick will work, why? Because there is no way Boro will win four on the trot.... People who take up this offer have more chance of knitting fog, than getting the dosh back.
Good idea though, nice to see the Marketing Dept, run by Aladdin and Widow Twanky, however it will take the Genie of the Lamp to make it work. Oh no it won't - Oh yes it will.....
Here we go again. The club try something a bit different to put bums on seats and the first thing we hear is me-me-me squealing from small minded supporters who can't resist putting the boot into the club.
What on Earth is the problem with the club coming up with a little gimmick to shift a few tickets? And the ridicilous thing is that the moaning is coming from those kneejerk doom and gloomers who think the club will lose all four anyway.
It was the same last year when Boro offered season ticket holders - yes, season ticket holders - the chance to buy extra tickets for a tenner. You would think they had slapped on a £10 surcharge and demanded a kidney to hear some of the stupid short-sighted complaints.
These mean spirited individuals are just terrified someone is getting something they are not. I bet they would complain about a "kid a quid" scheme too becaus seasonally adjusted they paid a lot more to get into the Boys End back in 1964.
Boro win four in a row? Our survey said...
aaaaaaaaaa-ahhhhhhhhhh
The club tried but it is difficult to see it working when we will be having players coming off loan, an unsettled team and the slight technical issue of winning four in a row. Plus the dreaded post Xmas slump.
Applause for the club for making an effort, if it puts some bums on seats it cant be bad.
As someone has studied marketing at masters level I am in shock at this marketing stunt pulled by Boro. It is one of the worst I have ever heard of, This could end up in the marketing text books.
The key to marketing is to keep your customers happy and they will do your marketing for your, Boro are going totally against this.
Whilst the Season ticket holders may not actually be worse off, and there is a very slim chance of this stunt happening it is a very clear sign to the established consumer base and its not a very good one. This will annoy more fans than it will attract.
It wont be a disaster but Boro could lose around 1,000 fans to this.
AV I urge you to contact the Teesside Business Schools Marketing Department and get one of them to give there perspective on it, They will be horrified.
12 years ago- Relegated,12 years on - Relegated. Just goes to show SG and Co haven't learnt a thing. They spent millions on relegation fodder 12 years ago and have done the same again. Welldone Mr Gibosn. Please resign over the way you have led the fans down the garden path. 12 years of humiliation you have brought to the club.
**AV writes: 12 years of humiliation? Weren't you there at Cardiff or Eindhoven?
This offer is very much a double edged sword - it can so easily be misconstrued as MFC saying even they don't believe the team can win, in the same minefield-like vein as Christmas shopping for the other half and gifts that seemed like a good idea but actually suggest the opposite:
Expensive moisturiser - you think she looks old.
Thoughtful home made gift - you look cheap.
Relaxing spa day - you think she has anger issues.
Clothing bought in too small a size - She thinks she's fat
Clothing bought in too large a size - You think she's fat.
Sexy underwear - you think she's a slapper.
Dull underwear - you have no interest in her sexually anymore.
Anything kitchen or domestic appliance related - she'll put the divorce papers in the post.
At the same time it shows the change in attitude, if the offer had been brought out at the beginning of the season everyone would have snapped them up after our initial decent form, now every supporter is thinking "no chance of that happening.."
Surely the offer any fan would want to see would be the club actually backing itself and its own abilities - if we LOSE the games we will give you the money back, after all people are paying to be entertained and to see boro win, whereas with this offer the club are saying you have to pay to see us lose, and it is essentially like betting against your own team on matchday.
Imagine the response if Boro had said if we lose two or more of those games we will give you your money back...
I wonder if this offer in any way coincides with the recent redundancy of MFC's marketing manager or the resignation of the hospitality sales manager? It does have that Keith Lamb smack of 'unintentionally saying something stupid' about it, as if he came up with it himself.
Clearly the idea is to get a few supporters shouting and supporting their hearts out to get Boro winning all four matches! Who blames - and hopefully the normal Season Ticketers join in. Nothing to lose...
I don't agree with AV, here. We could win those matches. At least I believe it possible (perhaps not so likely but possible). I would say 1/8!
My cup is not half empty yet. Up the Boro!
Had to share this
My QPR supporting mate produced this great dig while singing Status Quo Rockin' all over the world" at Karaoke last night. A magnificent tribute to QPR winger Adel Taarabt,and surely an all time terrace chant.
“A here we go a here we go a here we go
Adel’s better than Juninho
Here we gooooo
Moroccan all over the world”
Firstly I am happy for the club to attempt some possibilities as far as concerns selling tickets (BOGOF's, cheap tickets for kids etc) to fill the ground - even if I won't gain from it the club might.
So the offer is four wins in a row. What are the odds on our conceding a goal in the last few minutes of game four (to forfeit the lead or even to lose) even if we comfortably won the previous three? There really would be some moaning going on at that stage!
And finally, halifaxp at 12.28pm, it's good to think you agree. If SG or KL want to come on here to indicate they ARE taking sensible, decent, views on board, then I'm sure we'd all welcome that. Come on, boys, don't be shy. We all want the same thing don't we?
AV - "The Guantanamo years". Could be a book in there. And seeing as you can't, I've had a hair cut today. (No shouting at the back: "How can you tell!").
AV:- "Extraordinary rendition to Uzbekistan?" So that's what happened to Shawky........
Shawky? I remember that name from somewhere! Isn't he an international midfielder? Lucky , isn't it, that our club is so stuffed full of quality in midfield that we can pay good wages to an international who has probably played more games for his country than for his club since he's been here?
Next time anyone is in the hospitality area, can they please look to see if his name has been painted up on the "International honours boards" (you know, the one that lists the number of international caps won whilst they were at the Boro).
Has Southgate's date of departure been filled in yet, and is Shawky's name there, even if the number of Egypt caps hasn't yet been filled in (there's time for another half dozen before his contract is up, surely?).
And back to agents, if we are paying people to "get rid" of players as well as to get people in, surely if Shawky has no future at the club (and even if he were an optimist, Shawky would have to have his suspicions by now) we could have got someone to assist in offloading? Or do the agents only want good money for the easy deals?
Still, let's look on the bright side - Christmas is coming! On the other hand I hardly need to remind people how the Boro tends to perform around and after Christmas.
From a freshly coiffed contributor (hee, hee!).
Vic
Is this tagging to the front of the last blog post just a vain attempt to keep your numbers up with posts/blog!!! Or is that as cynical as the "Christmas card" possie?! If so you'll see me hanging around the 6 yard line with Wedermouth and Gilly in about 8 hours time waiting to score number 100...
Now what news about the next 6 pointer in our season?
**AV writes: No, nothing cynical. There were two decent discussions going on and I didn't want to artificially disrupt them with a new front page. I get the same number of posts/views on average most days so there is no real advantage.
This is why the Geordies and makems look, down on us ,the club gives an incentive,and lets say a father and son take it up,they could save over 300 quid, but OH NO! The boys who sit in the worky club.and have done for the last 20 years have got to have thier say, all negative as usual. The club give you an option, don't take it if you dont want to, after all you'll save more of your money for more pints
Scandalously, still no answers on Shawky and why Folan is still here and is going to see the full period of his loan out injured as many on here predicted weeks ago.
As Andy R said above, compare and contrast with the swift return of Josh Walker when he got injured.
I wonder how the cost of nugatory wage spend and fees charged or not recouped on just those two 'deals' ranks against what MFC expects to rake in from its 'do you feel lucky, punk' half-season ticket punt?
I agree with Lewis Thompson's analysis - the idea that you make a 'tempting offer' (as the Gazette put it) to fans based on winning four games in a row when Boro have only won one game from their last eleven gives the appearance of making no offer at all.
If you placed an accumulator bet at the bookies for these games you'd get odds of around 40-1 - maybe the club is planning to bet £5 on each ticket sold to cover any 'possible' losses.
If the club wanted to go down this road then maybe a better idea would have been to let the purchaser choose two home games and two away games that they thought Boro would win and offer half the money back if they were successful.
However, if Boro somehow manage to win these four games after Christmas then I look forward to the chant from the terraces during the forth game of 'We want our money back'.
Lewis Thomson
I dont rate the ticket gimmick in the top ten of MFC marketing gaffes. It isnt the best idea but a major advance from the 'wont do anything on pricing' approach to attracting fans to the ground.
There are many faults with it as we have all outlined above.
As usual the timing is immaculate coming on the back of GS2's run of four without a victory. It reminds one of Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf telling reporters that US soldiers were burning in their tanks and dying at the gates whilst in the background the aforementioned US tanks were driving around the streets.
I think the ticket offer is the least of the problems facing MFC starting tomorrow with the visit to QPR.
On to our defence and a quick bit of anoraking shows that we have had 10 different back fours since Huth left. Wont help stability.
AV
As you still Jedwarded have you thought that a trip to the Kremlin and application of electrodes might give you a Keegan perm?
12 years of humiliation!!!! You couldn't make it up. Very enjoyable humiliation (for the most part), I must say.
The chances of Boro winning the 4 games will equate to odds of about 16 to 1.
Boro will be odds on with the bookies for both home games and joint favs for both the away games. To win all four whilst improbable is certainly not impossible.
C'Mon Boro!
Sorry to rub it in AV but I took the plunge and got a hair cut too last night. A nice crisp number 3 all over. And this time next week I will be walking amongst you, watch out Teesside here I come.
So the morning of the big draw has arrived..... The office secret Santa/bran tub draw I got some woman who left a list with 16 items!!!. I think I’ll get her a half season ticket at the Boro. Any other ideas?
Oh yeah the other big draw today. Anyone else hoping that England gets North Korea and the USA. I wonder want the Sports reporter Ant Vic Jong-Ill of the Pyongyang Gazette will blog if the North Koreans get beat? Dodgy ref? International Conspiracy?, or just fail to report it?
Was it Pak Do Ik who got the goal at Ayresome? I remember some of the players from that game came to a match at the Riverside a few years back. I think there should be a statue to him some where in the town. A great symbol of a little known/liked underdog achieving greatness in the face of adversity.
They will definitely be my second team next summer, maybe even my first.
Just for the record and to prove it is actually possible for Boro to win four league games in row. I've checked the results for each season and Boro last won four in a row back in 1997/98 in our Championship promotion winning season.
11-04-98 Boro 4-0 Bury
13-04-98 Reading 0-1 Boro
17-04-98 Boro 3-0 Man City
24-04-98 Port Vale 0-1 Boro
Also Season ticket holders feeling left out from this tempting offer could always place their £5 bet at the bookies - though perhaps a good PR excercise would be for MFC to do it on their behalf.
Forever Dormo - you're absolutely right, just think of the conversations (imagined or otherwise) that may go on before the final game if by some miracle Boro win the first 3 matches? Keith Lamb in the dressing room saying "We need you to throw this one lads..."
The public outcry, followed by the furore in the local and national press, followed by a football league investigation into the matter.
It's just all so mind numbingly ill-conceived and could end up with a huge 12 bore hole in the foot that it could only have come from MFC.
Werdermouth - Re 4 in a row
Was the win at Reading a league game? I think we won there in the Cup (was it Carling cup then) that season en route to Wembley for a 3rd final in a row. Higgy the goalscorer got left behind and missed the bus home as he was doing media interviews and ended up hitching home with Bernie and Brownlee.
If I am right then it don't count as its not four league wins in a row (unless the one either side of these was a victory too of course)
Werdermouth -
That is even sadder than me checking how many different back fours we have had since Huth left.
Brisbane Phil -
It is Werdermouth and Forever who lurk around the near post trying to get the magic hundred. Occasionally someone peels away and scores at the back post.
I am the box to box poster that Boro need in midfield, the Robbie Mustoe of the blog.
Powls is the Bobby Murdoch look alike who patrols either side of the halfway line lobbing precise posts into the inbox.
Jaguar Boy -
Cant see it being the Count in the dressing room on a Sunday lunchtime, an evening kick off yes, but nothing in daylight hours. It could be Sue Watson warning the players they musnt score and get people excited on Health and Safety grounds.
This is much better than blogging about the football. If Carlsberg did a blog.....
Doesn't this "special" offer simply display the lack of ambition and belief the club now has??
No-one at the club seems to have any confidence that the team CAN win four in a row and turn the season around or this wouldn't be offered, and they advertise this fact. Advertising the expectation of losing will not attract fans back.
Surely the offer of "if we lose 4 in a row" OR "lose one of the four" would be a better offer. The club displaying confidence like that may coax people back and convince more of them to buy a half season ticket.
Looks like we get our marketing staff from the same place we get our strikers!!
AV If you think by Winning one trophy The League Cup Is a Success say no more.
To reach Five Finals we were In over the last 12 years winning one and losing four well then we have no chance of winning anything. What do the players do to loser medals hide them away In the draw Its nothing to be proud of.
In Eindhoven we were outclassed and come to mention It. Didn't the players mention they didnt know who Sevilla were. I did and I am a fan. And If you think by reaching a UEFA Cup and being hammered is a success cant really say you have the right mentality and ambition of a succesful winning club. YOU DONT GET REMEMBERED FOR LOSING FINALS ONLY WINNING FINALS!
**AV writes: You never mentioned success, you said it had been 12 years of "humiliation." As you say, five finals, highest ever Prem position, a string of world class players, the only English team outside the big four to reach European final in over 20 years... humiliation? Really? Come humiliate me again.
Recently there have been some good ideas re Agents and players being centrally contracted to the league and players leased out to the clubs. This could be the best way of ensuring clubs don’t spend too much on players wages.
There would have to be a universally accepted wage cap otherwise the richer clubs would be able to get all the best players.
Unfortunately I can’t see this idea being taken on by the league, but I have another good idea. You may have heard this mentioned before but here goes……….The King Herod Cup. Replacing the Carling cup the King Herod cup involves all league teams. However the teams can only pick players Born or Educated up until the age of 12 within 25miles of the clubs home ground.
The final to be held at different locations depending on geographical location of the clubs involved will be held on Xmas eve. Supporters making the journey by donkey get a discount on official merchandise.
No extra time, penalties or replays, you’ve guessed it Multi Ball bar billiard overtime will decide tied games.
This time I think I’m onto a winner.
Let's just go the whole hog and give the marketing managers job to "Del Boy", you know it makes sense!
Cushti!
"This time next year Rodder's......"
Just doing some stretching exercises AV.
I was wondering if you have ever had a hat trick of consecutive 100 post winners? What is the blogging equivalent of "The match ball?"
After scouring the UEFA Pro coaching manual for blog posts, it would appear the "POMO" for achieving it is the early hours of the morning.
Just off to get some midnight oil.
Caleb Folan is on the same deal as St Ledger I believe. He will be signed on a permanent deal in January. Is that correct AV?
**AV writes: We have asked and been told categorically no... although you have to wonder why he wasn't sent back to Hull after 28 days when injured .
Werdermouth -
The win at Reading was indeed a league game, Marco Branca got the goal there. We also beat Reading 1-0 in the then Coca-Cola Cup that season, thanks to a disputed Higgy goal.
You got all the other results right except the win over City, which was actually 1-0. It saw (sadly) the end of Branca's Boro career, Ricard continuing to fail to hit a barn door...and Armstrong keeping the promotion dream alive.
Jiffy, no they were all league games - if you check the date of the Reading game (April) you will notice that it was long after the final had already been played.
Ian, there's nothing sad in checking painful facts - though I think it's called saddomasicism - besides it didn't take too long as the historic data is available on soccerbase.com.
Though, given that we haven't achieved four in a row for over ten years, the odds available at the bookies are not exactly generous.
I've got a feeling we will win tomorrow as QPR have only won three at home and we should have our strongest team on the pitch since the start of the season - plus everyone is now close to match fitness. Prediction: 2-0
Well spotted (remembered?) Si it was 1-0 against City - my eyes must have been playing tricks with me - unless it was a premonition for our next encounter in January? A result that will probably inspire AV to shave his head.
Agents.
If you take them out of the equation, it would not mean cheaper seats, better pies or improved performances. The excess would go to paying off the Club's debts. (In an ideal world that is. I suspect the reality would be that it would be spent on executive goldfish.
As Bogart said, 'I don't object to a parasite, just a cut-rate one.'
Incidentally Vic, what did GS2's agent charge to acquire him?
Have a Saturday off work from Trinity Towers especially to go to QPR. Best I can see is another two all draw. The worst? We were stuffed here six nil (I think - shudder) in 1982(?) on MOTD wearing orange tops (recent precedent for that..) Fortunately I was too young to travel to that one.. But wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age..
One more thing Vic, if you haven't had your Jedward 'do' photoshopped for you, am happy to oblige, (no agents fee required) just say the word..
Right then, off to the match..
Come on Boro.
**AV writes: You can Jedward me up if you like in a "let's see what you would have won" style but by breakfast tomorrow I will be down to a No1 again. Thank god. How do hippies do that hair stuff?
I pressed a wrong button and lost it....thankfully only a short one.
So here we go again.
Werdermouth, it seems a little dangerous these days to make predictions. It is as if God were a football fan (for another club) and sought to punish us for our presumption. So there'll be no prediction from the Oracle about the QPR game. I'd feel responsible if it all went wrong!
And for those (above) who think I might be lurking near the goal, I have taken up a deep-lying midfield role today. Mind you - I wouldn't mind stroking one in from 35 yards if a gap appears in front of me.
Something seemed to happen to the Live Blog in the second half. I hope you (and your equipment) are OK. If not, some of the "tongue in cheek" comments about your liking for the half-time smoked salmon and champagne might seem a little inappropriate.
And will the blog now carry an up-to-date photo of you with a "shorn" look?
**AV writes: Yes, the live blog went belly up in the second half. I think a few people we already having a few problems so it was wobbling a bit before it blew up. I don't think it was configured for a Boro win.
AV, did you and I both get lost in Cyber Space on the live blog? We both disappeared at around the same time. I did try to send more comments right up until the end (30 plus and they all got lost)!
Hope it works for the next game on Tuesday.
Come on BORO.
**AV writes: Yeah, I'll kick it a few times, turn it off and on again and then try again against Blackpool.
Great result today...
However the marketing team at the Boro should put their heads together. Please can they hire someone with a bit of nouse.
To me it is obvious. The (full) season ticket holders should be rewarded. The way to do this is, given that we might see some entertainment served up, is to allow season ticket holders to bring other friends and family into the ground on the cheap, say for a tenner or a fiver for the under 16s. A friend system. Quite honestly, i'd just do the quid a kid to fill the stadium up.
But as far as filling the Riverside up, clearly they are stupid. Never heard anything ridiculous as this refund for a half season ticket if they win 4 on the trot.
Just like Lamb, it is quite clear they have naff marketing people in place too. Its just so obvious what they have to do... and stop penalising the people who actually pay for their season tickets. That to me is the most ridiculous thing.
I only get to away games and a couple at the Riverside so as an outsider in the sense, I can't believe the stupidity. No wonder attendences are falling. Gibbo and Lamb et al. will be patting themselves on the back after today's result, but unless they act with better incentives to reward the loyal fanbase, they may as well cancel christmas.
Werdermouth, again:
Oh, me of little faith. Why didn't I believe you?
Question is: What took the team so long? And we even did it without Jinky...
Great win - it came also so convincingly! QPR 1 Boro 5. Just unbelievable!!!
Up the Boro!!!
PS. Where was AV - did you miss the goals? Hair or something else?
He'll be taking paracetomol to get over the bubbly-induced hangover. We're on mackerel salad sandwiches and tea, and he is on the smoked salmon and Bollinger. Let's be honest, if you had such a spread before you in the Press Lounge at half-time, would you be rushing out to do the second half live blog?
**AV writes: Nothing at half-time. Shocking. I had to break into the home made emergency sandwiches on the train back.
....and a safe journey back from London. Just don't get a lift from Ali Brownlee because he was certainly on cloud nine after the game. I don't expect his feet to touch the earth for a few days.
The club are great at throwing freebies,incentives and offers at the random uncommitted supporter but what about the loyal redbook holders who have shelled out £400 or more a season for the past thirteen years? What are we getting?
We should have a few full season refunds for some of the rubbish we have watched over the years. Its about time the club looked after its most loyal supporters for a change!!
NorthantsBoro - I have a season ticket and I don't feel penalised in the slightest by the clubs offer.
Great win today. Typical Boro really. Can we talk about automatic promotion again now?
After all the doom and gloom merchants got carried away with themselves at the Boro ticket offer, wouldn't it be great if we actually won four in a row now, culminating with the Newcastle game?
Borophil:
Tell you what - if Boro were to win four on the bounce, they might actually sell more season tickets!
It's a chicken and egg situation and for those like myself, who aren't prepared to continue to pay in advance for continued decline in standards. The club needs to improve its product, give genuine hope on the back of demonstrable evidence that the embers of ambition still glow a bit and actually demonstrate some of Gibson's rhetorical ambition through results.
You can't continuously offer rubbish for sale and expect exacting people to buy it!
Offer some decent fare and they'll come back voluntarily.
Four in a row would be a start - but no more than that - after everything that's gone on to put Boro where Boro is!
For the club, I'll count the QPR result! But for the HOME supporters, the count is STILL zero!
just read half season ticket offer has been because of petty minded whingers with nothing better to do but moan.
We have three season tickets but would not dream of complaining at somebody else's good fortune, we say good luck if you can get your money back as this would mean boro winning 4 on the bounce! We could do with as many fans as possible at the games. The club should not bow to this minority of doom and gloom merchants
What is it with these so called fans. The reason for having a season ticket is you are investing in the future of the club. More bums on seats = more revenue. Or would they rather the seats stay empty?
What about "mothballing" The Riverside and playing our home games at Darlington. We might almost fill it. We can return if we get back to the Premier League.
Well there can be no more excuses. This is now GS2's team, and sadly we have gotten worse. How on earth Digard can't get into this team is totally beyond me.
How about it AV, have I caught the defence napping?
**AV writes: That is well naughty - a one-two with yourself on a thread from last week - but you have got to admire the work-rate. Is that a hat-trick?