Bi-polar Boro: From Heroes to Zeroes As Riverside Complex Hits Home

AV: Here are my thoughts on last night's match

There are not enough words in the dictionary to describe the shambles at the Hexerside Stadium last night. The Boro players made Blackpool look like Brazil, who’s Charlie Adam ran the match and rounded it off with a cracking finish.

I know Strachan is not Media Savvy, however, his post match radio interview on BBC Tees was dreadful. His contempt for the fans is a disgrace anyone can go on there and say “I don’t know” to every question asked of him.

Something is certainly wrong behind the scenes, and needs sorting now, not in January or in the summer, otherwise Mr. Gibson is going to find out he is not as popular as he thinks he is.

There is a danger of Sunday’s televised game against Cardiff showing more red seats than fans. Cardiff are a better side than Blackpool, so a drastic improvement is needed, otherwise a National embarrassment on T.V. is more than likely.

There is no easy answer to this problem, sorting out a sportsmans/teams psycological issues are far harder than sorting out tactics, fitness etc.

The fact the Blackpool manager identified Boro's weakness as being the fans attitude says it all. There is no disputing fans have the right to boo, but if we want to be succesful and be promoted perhaps the booing could be suspended for a couple of matches?

There is an excellent opportunity coming up on Sunday for the fans to get behind and stay behind the team no matter what, ironically we'll be under dogs for that match which may help a little?

To the 'other' Nigel, my apologies for making an incorrect assumption, maybe posting on here is starting to make me paranoid! For the avoidance of doubt in future I'll add my surname!!

**AV writes: You should adopt a quirky Brazilian style nickname: Reevalinho?

The sad thing is it really didnt suprise me. Deep down I felt it was much more likely this would happen than a convincing win.

Six points from seven games since Southgate left. hardly looking like it was all southgates fault now is it!? Fair enough we had been "hit and miss" since huth left, but now we are miss-miss with a random hit.

I think Holloway is right about the fans, but its easy for me to say that as an "Away supporter", im not being subjected to and paying for the misery that is the home performance! but we are in a vicious season ruining cycle at home.

You can see that we are a very good team of footballers in this standard from our away performance. Even three of our draws away would deservedly been dead-cert wins bases on play and chances and the same applies to one of our defeats, which makes it all the more frustrating as we are where we are mainly due to the fragile minds of our players at home!

Otherwise: Jones cant be blamed for any of the weak goals we conceded last night or this season. its the centre backs who keep messing up. i think a drastic change needs to occur here. Get sol campbell in? or put Riggott and Poggy at CB.

Yeates should have stayed in last night.

Cant play at home it would seem. Another self-inflicted problem.

How many home games did we win last season? 5 I think it was. We had to get that sorted before anything else. So pre-season we will play all games away! Thats our preparation for the new season is it?

What's the answer? Obvious - stop playing home games.

Ground share with Darlo - its more than big enough for the crowds Boro will be getting in the new year.

It was awful last night but Ii dont fault the players 100%. For me the problem lies with the fans and the backing the team receives.

Aa lad behind me constantly shouted abuse at the team for 70 mins after every missed place pass, every offside, every time jones held on to the ball every time the players breathed.

I'd had enough so I asked why he came to the match. He said "well Ive paid my ticket and Ive supported Boro for 20 years." Great so you pay good money to come and shout abuse at the team rather than get behind them I asked? That shut him up and for the last 20 mins he actually started to get behind the team.

This is the problem not the players. A negative atmosphere in the ground creates anxiety and tension, a constant black cloud hangs over the ground and its the fans that are keeping it here.

Granted the team needs to arrouse the fans but the crowd can play a part as well.
We need to get rid of the Pigbag and go for something different, change the atmosphere of the ground and sort out a feel good factor. Clap rather than boo,

Would it have made a difference if rather than being bood at half time the crowd had picked up the noise levels and gave the team hope for the 2nd half.???

This club is on its knees and the only people capable of picking it up are the fans. Forget Gibson, Strachan and the players. This is OUR club and we should support it like true teessiders and get behind our team when the chips our down.

So what if we lose. At least we come out of it saying bloody hell we gave it a go and then maybe just maybe the players may start to believe again.

Look back at the clubs recent history and behind every major triumph has been 30,000 teessiders giving it their best. Let's get back to those times and lets get behind this young inexperienced side, we can do it we can climb above the dark clouds and we can salvage this season.

COME ON BORO!!!!!!!

In my opinion that was the worst performance of the season. It was far more inept than the drubbing off West Brom because at least in that game you could say we were 2-0 down through ill luck.

The centre backs were as a pairing absolutely awful. Surely one of the main and obvious problems is that at home the full backs must occasionally push forward and overlap. I dont think Williams and Pogi crossed the half way line.

Osbourne does not appear to know the meaning of passing forward. Slow , ponderous and predictable with the only off the ball movement being of Lita who at least put a shift in.

Strachan appears by his selection to have decided he does not rate Yeates, Digard Emnes and Bennett. Can you honestly say the team is better for their exclusion?

Yeates did well when he came on and Digard in one movement where he took the ball past his man in midfield and played Kitson in with a FORWARD pass achieved more than Osbourne and O'Neill had in 80 minutes.

I'd like to ask all fans that watched it the following;

a]Can you understand how Digard is deemed not good enough to be starting amongst this shambles?

b]Why do we continually play Arca wide right?Surely Emnes is a better bet.He's right footed and fast with decent ball skill.

c]Why in home games do we play with full backs who cannot go forward?

I could go on and on. We have changed manager at considerable expense. We have brought loan players at considerable expense.Not one iota of improvement at considerable expense

I don't think the 'young and inexperienced' thing can be used as an excuse now, either. Of the team and bench that were out last night only Osbourne and Luke Williams fall into that category.

And a fair few don't have the legacy or taint of previous seasons' Home-o-phobia or trend, as the Manager called it.

Why wasn't Riggs on the bench last night? At least he might have steadied the ship a little, albeit we may still have been two goals down by then.

Sorting the defence - and the centre-backs and goalie in particular is the key, I think. I thought that Wheats and Ledge had begun to get it sorted on Saturday. Clearly not. And with Osbourne failing to shield them they fell apart.

As far as re-shaping goes, we have to be without Ledge after Sunday anyway and he could hardly complain on that count and on his performance last night if he - or both he and Wheats were replaced on Sunday. If Pogi is to move into the centre we aren't short of competent enough left backs to take his place.

Although Brad Jones may not have been directly at fault for the goals last night - or indeed for the one that went past him at QPR - I think he could have done better with at least two of the efforts. But the bigger problem is that, despite that, he inspires no confidence in those in front of him - nor in the crowd for that matter.

At QPR the biggest threat to Boro's dominance and their only real defensive frailty were a series of three or four 'Corporalisms' - errors of judgement and decision making that rendered the otherwise mundane and trivial a potential threat.

I also don't see him verbally supporting or cajoling or organising his back four in the box either. If they're flopping about back there anyway, this can hardly help.
I'd put Coyne back in goal for Sunday but I still think we have to look for better than both he and Jones in January.

Maybe Gary O'Neil had it right and the best way to be at The Riverside last night was unconscious.

Ian Holloway's wind-up attempts should be ignored. What he says usually makes little sense, and this is no exception.

He asserts, in his usal brainless way, that paying customers should be philosophical about watching a terrible performance, and that only the manager has the right to comment. Even for someone well known for talking complete nonsense, that is pushing the envelope.

In the rock concert world, the players would probably have had bottles thrown at them, not some rather half-hearted booing. And the customers wouldn't have agreed that only the band's manager had a right to comment on their performance.

The performers should guarantee their paying customers that they will do their utmost to put on a good show. And that is all the fans are asking.

The problem of having recently been in the Premier League doesn't lie with the fans, as the inane Holloway claims, but with some of the players. They don't seem to undersatnd that now they have to prove that they are even Championship players.

As for the match itself, there is little to be said. The problems clearly remain. I'm afraid it was QPR that was the blip, not this debacle.

People who think this is simply a home-away thing are deluding themselves. Have they already forgotten Peterborough, the match before QPR, where the team was booed at the end of the game? Or Crystal Palace, or Preston, or Coventry or Bristol City?

If Strachan really believes that it's simply a "fear factor", things won't improve. The difference in performance arises from weaknesses which are more apparent against teams content to defend, like Blackpool in the first half hour, than teams which try to attack, like QPR.

It was naive to expect that consistently improved performances would be achieved so quickly. This is still basically Southgate's team, and we know that they were always capable of the freak good result. But they were even more capable of this kind of abject surrender.

To improve matters in the longer term, there will have to be further changes in personnel, both temporary and permanent. Several of yesterday's team now need to show that they deserve a place in the side, the two centre backs among them.

If it's too late to cancel the St Ledger deal, he needs to be found a different role in the side. Simply improving his positional discipline hasn't worked. And Wheater urgently needs to sort himself out, before it's too late. His dreams of playing in the Premier League again must be receding at the speed of light.

Fortunately, there is plenty of time, and I think that the problems can be resolved. A playoff place is the only realistic target this season, and it's still achievable.

Mythbuster: if you think this isn't just a home thing then you are deluding yourself... Because it definately IS just a home thing.

Those games that you mention Bristol, Cov, Preston, Palace, Peterborough ; whilst non of them wins they were all very different in complexion and performance from the dreadful five defeats and two draws at the Riverside.

I went to the Coventry, Preston and Palace games and they were all unbearably frustrating but only because we played the opposition of the park in each game, looked confident and bright and on another day they could and definately should have been more like the QPR scoreline.

At home we actually look and play like a completely different team though. The defeats we've been dreadful and deserved to lose. And in the three wins we've even been poor, where as in our away wins we've been excellent.

SamBrum and Mythbuster

The common thread - home and away - is the defensive shortcomings.

If we'd been able to defend properly for ninety plus minutes, hold a lead and see out a game we'd have taken the three points from Coventry, Preston and Peterborough that our attacking play deserved.

We'd have had at least a point from Bristol City and Palace too but the performances there didn't really merit more - despite all the chances we made and wasted at Selhurst. I was at those away games as well - and frustration isn't an adequate word to describe the feelings at the waste.

At home, though we struggle to break down a basic 4-5-1, the second order of business - if you can't win - is not to lose.

And, if your strikers and midfield go into every game knowing that the chances are they're going to have to get at least two goals - and sometimes more - to win a game it adds pressure anyway.

They should be able to be confident about what's going on behind them so they can concentrate on a head of steam and variety of approach to get goals.

Regardless of what Holloway said about getting the crowd on the team's backs, it's obvious that teams now know what to do to get a win at The Riverside.

That usually involves getting the first goal. If they can't get it because we are tight at the back they would need to change their approach. And if we score first they would know that it would be less likely that they could come back.

Either route means they have to come out more if they're looking for a point or more from the game - and that plays into our hands.

And though the Boro fans might be occasionally frustrated with a goal-less home draw full of 100% effort and positive endeavour because the opposition successfully 'parked the bus, that would be, mostly, understood and feel a damn site better than how we're feeling today.

Sort the defence and the rest follows - home and away.

John Powls has reassured me it was not my fault for the result so what else could be the cause of the dismal showing.

What has changed since the QPR match and last night, GS2 certainly couldnt put his finger on it.

We had been getting better match by match until the 5-1 win at QPR that brought AV the precious relief of a hair cut.

Mmmmmmm! Vic, just how long was your hair before you had it cut? You havent got a photogaphic record of it by any chance? How long did it take to grow?

Just so we know when we can expect the next win, you are going to let it grow again arent you?

**AV writes: No chance. The Jedward was driving me round the bend.

I might have swore at the end of my post last night which might be why I can't see it anywhere. Never mind.

It basically said we were awful and it was the worst game I have seen boro ever play and I mean ever since I started supporting.

Interesting to hear Holloway's comments, I wish our previous manager and new manager just managed. Not sure about supporters should just support, the players on the pitch directly affect the fans in my opinion - especially at home. If the players stick to playing - we will stick to supporting. How long will it be until the players attain the ability to play at the Riverside?

Time for some quiet reflection. We were poor. Blackpool were much better, but hardly the Barcelona we made them appear.

The centre backs were particularly poor. Wheats is in desperate need of a good game, but St Ledger had an absolute horror of a game and looked shell-shocked well before the end. If they play together in the next game, then I suggest there will never be a place in the side for Riggott. If fit, Riggott and Poggi must be worth a start at this level, or at least Wheats and Poggi (if the face mask wouldn't be too distracting, in which case Wheats and Riggott).

Has Bennett let us down in the few games he has played? If he played Left Back then that would free Poggi to play in the middle where he is much better anyway.

Why did we buy Digard if we aren't prepared to play him, if he is fit (and I assume he is fit as he was put on the Bench and came on as substitute). We paid a few millions for him when we were in the Premier League. Was he good enough there but not good enough for the Championship? Or was it a bad decision to buy him in the first place?

He seems to be OK to me (but then again he is competing against a world-beating midfield combination so it must be difficult to break into the team). I accept he has had injuries, but he seems combative, can make a good pass, and seems to have more about him creatively than most of our players in that area of midfield. So, if fit, surely he should get a start?

Are those who spent money, or advised on the deal, happy with Digard and Emnes (was he a mistake, if not, surely he must be a better bet than Arca on the wing?), and the deal for St Ledger? Think about this: Huth for £5M and St Ledger for £4M. Does that sound right?

Arca to start a game? On the right wing? And to move into central midfield if, say, O'Neill came upon an injury? In what parallel universe is that considered sensible? Can he tackle? Has he the pace to break out of defence? Has he the speed of mind to decide what to do? Or is he the most likely player in the squad to get caught in possession (in which case it might be better if that was as far as possible away from our goal)?

If Coyne is dropped after one poor game (against WBA when, to be fair, about eight others were also very poor), when does the Corporal get the hook? "I don't know what he does to the enemy, but he puts the ***** up me" (to paraphrase the Duke of Wellington).

When we had won the first game for a while, and when Yeates had played a prominent role there in his first start for ages, many of us wondered whether he would start against Blackpool. Many of us were disappointed, but not terribly surprised, when he was on the Bench. He did more in the first 15 minutes after he came on the pitch than most of the team (put together) had done in the first half. Arca on the wing or Yeates? Not too difficult there, surely? Like comparing the qualities of, say Phil Whelan at centre half with Gary Pallister.

I was almost surprised not to hear a reprise of "We've only got one man!" again. It might have been "disrespectful to the others" (if you remember that far back) but it would have had the ring of truth, and everyone would have recognised who the "one" was.

We might not be professionals but we can't all be blind can we? That was shocking. It was the equivalent of all the United bus drivers having a crash on the same day (and some of them several on the same journey), whether on their way to Redcar, Saltburn, Middlesbrough, Stockton, Hartlepool, Yarm or Darlington.

We can all have a bad day at the office. But if you had lots of bad days, a surprise good one, and then an horrifically bad one, you would start to worry whether you are doing something wrong, or whether you are working at the right sort of office. But if the whole office has a bad day at the same time, you would have to ask some questions. Is David Brent making the decisions?

Sorry for all the questions, but after that display, surely some answers are required. It can't all be down to the ST holders, surely?

We'll get the same abject performance on Sunday unless Strachan makes some major changes to the team, starting with the truly awful centre back "partnership" of Wheater and St Ledger. Did you ever see such a tragic display?

I cannot even bring myself to write about it ... it just makes me even more depressed to recall it, but I do agree with your comments AV.

As for the fans, well, I do tend to agree with the train of thought that fans who are just waiting to boo at any given opportunity are not helping matters. Lord, the North stand were booing Jones last night after the second goal went in, just re-enforcing my belief that we have some of the most uneducated fans in the country.

But then again, though I cannot see a time when I join in, it takes the patience of a saint not to boo this season, at home at least. The two jokers who sit behind me are laughable in their comments and condemnation, and last night I finally snapped. But they are only human.

I'm contemplating staying in the warmth of the Navi on Sunday to watch the latest home horror show instead of making the perilous journey to the stadium. Care to join me?

And no, before you ask, I didn't boo at the end. The display merited it, and it would have been no more than the team deserved. But I felt so sickened that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. However if it carries on like that......

Well. What with this home/away dilemma still bugging us, some words from Roy Keane's autobiography have hit home:

"(During a fortunate, scrappy 1-0 win over Dynamo Kiev) The crowd was curiously quiet. It was as if they'd resented the absence of the spectacle they'd come to see. A goal-fest...and the crowd were swinging from the rafters. What about the hard days and nights, when you needed a lift from your own supporters?"

He then goes on to praise how fantastic the away fans are before criticising the home fans who are in danger of losing the plot.

Remind you of anyone at this moment in time? The Riverside was a fortress in 1997/98 because we helped to make it one. Too many of the squad, the coaching staff and the fans still seem to have their heads in the Premiership...or even Eindhoven.

But then, maybe it isn't the fans. After all, that team of a decade ago was much stronger mentally than this one. We were more than happy to direct plenty of criticism at McClaren's teams, and yet compared to what we have today...

Or maybe it's just typical Boro, again. Who knows, we might actually beat Cardiff...

I know Brad Jones receives a lot of stick from our fans, so I thought I would have a look at the stats. I always thought that young skippy was a good shot stopper, but poor at commanding his area or catching crosses.

Just have a look at the stats from the last few matches & make your own mind up.

QPR:
Shots on target - 2. Goals - 1.
Peterborough:
Shots on target - 4. Goals - 2.
Blackpool:
Shots on target - 5. Goals - 3.

As a general rule, out of every two shots that the opposition get on target, one goes in !! I'm not sure we will need to worry about fighting off bids for our 1st choice keeper this January. His saves to shots ratio must be as poor as any other keeper in the League at the moment. Put simply, this is not good enough & I sincerely hope our manager is looking to address this situation in January.

Do not get me wrong, I do not believe that Mr Jones is the only problem in our side. It is plainly obvious that St Ledger & Wheater have not gelled since the arrival of our Irish newbie. We sold Huth for £5M then replaced him with St Ledger for £4M. That's like swapping your Porsche for a Delorean. They may both be expensive & look good, but while you would be sure the Porsche would start first time on a frosty December morning, you would never be quite as confident about the Delorean !

Although, to prove that it is possible for anyone to have an "off day" Coyne has not exactly been without fault this season.

West Brom:
Shots on target - 6. Goals - 5.

Oct 20th: Boro 23 points, NUFC 24 pts

Southgate bulleted!

Dec 9th Boro 29 pts, NUFC 45 pts

What was that about the 'circus' at Sid James Park? I hope the clowns are still on show next week - we'll need them.

John, Aus

So in response to the "rose coloured glasses brigade above" you now want to blame the fans. WHAT A JOKE YOU LOT ARE. It is the players who generate the happiness of the fans. It is not the fans who make them play better.

This is one of the worst BORO teams ever and I have seen them all for nearly 55 years. The defence is a joke, the keeper one of the worst in the league, why oh why do they continue with Poltergist at left back he has been a disaster in the position every time he has played there, he is a central defender.

We have a none-existant mid field. we have a winger (Johnston) who started well but has proven he is only a few games player. He has lost his early season form. This team is abysmal. And I have supported this team with good money for season tickets which I stopped 2 years ago.

This team is only going one way and it is certainly NOT UP.

When you see terrorists trying to break a mans spirit on a war film with torture and sleep deprivation - Well that's NOWT! Try supporting the BORO!

I feel utterly dispirited!

This continuing war between pro-GS1 and pro-GS2 factions has long been boring. The logic is pretty clear: most people agreed that (under GS1) things were not right; things are still not right. It's not an either/or debate!

GS1 had the victory over Liverpool; GS2 over QPR. On both of these occasions, the players played as a team and looked capable of beating any side.

I was a Southgate fan. I am now quite prepared to support Strachan. Nothing else is consistent with being a long-term and passionate Boro fan.

What disturbs me is the huge disparity between what I saw at Loftus Road and what I saw at the Riverside on Tuesday. There MUST be something wrong with the mentality of the players. Nothing else makes sense.

They looked really happy at QPR; they were enjoying playing as a team there; they were skilful in controlling the ball, looking for good options when they had got it under control, making forward passes, making strong tackles and making intelligent runs for each other, and the finishing was very good. In short, they looked as if they were happy to do what they are paid to do.

I foolishly predicted that this was so convincing that they MUST have turned a corner! It seemed certain that the lads, having found how much fun it was to do their work properly, how much love they got from us supporters, etc., would go back to Teesside thinking about what made their game so good and clinging on to the vibe of togetherness. That, after all, is what a professional would do after a good performance, reflect on it, savour it and seek to learn the good lessons so they could be repeated.

Sorry about this ramble, but here's my point: these lads CANNOT be called good professionals. Either they got drunk on Saturday or Sunday or both because they felt they'd earned the right to do so (after all, this week they had EARNED their corn!) or they felt that they were supermen and this was now so clearly proved that they did not therefore need to prepare for Blackpool.

So, I conclude, that, while these players are technically capable of being good professional footballers, they are not mature or responsible enough to make it and need to grow up fast if they are to turn things round.

Gareth couldn't do this - and I would hope the most rabid anti-Southgate people might begin to see that he must have really had his work cut out - because the transformation from Saturday to Tuesday was so very extreme as to be like a mental or moral disease.

(Mark Yeates, Pogatetz, Digard, O'Neil and Brad Jones can be exempted from the above observations. Osbourne, I would hope, has not been here long enough to be infected with the Big I AM syndrome.)

The others should all be dropped for Cardiff and sent for a bit of arrogance counselling. (If we wanted to be nice we could say to them that we were sending them for help to deal with the recurrent, nightmarish visions they have been having of red, plastic seats everywhere.)

I would also drop Jones and send him to learn with Stephen Pears how to talk to the back four. We could use Wheater, St. Ledger, Williams and McMahon as role players - so they would actually earn some of their wages by being static (until Brad tells them to move). I think I am showing signs of real coaching skill here, as well as financial acumen and thinking out of the box!! If they do their job well, they can play for the reserves next week, so that'll be a nice incentive for them.

Sunday's team would be as follows:

Coyne: Hoyte, Riggott, Pogatetz, Bennett: O'Neil, Digard, Osbourne, Yeates: L.Williams, Franks - they would certainly do a better job than the shower that played the other day, and I'd put Reserves and Academy players on the bench. This would be a good way to avoid national humiliation - and also, perhaps, to avoid putting off any would-be transfers in when we shift out the dead wood in January.

There! Sorted!

**AV writes: I like the concept of "arrogance couselling."

Whats the bet the opposition on sunday play 4-5-1 ....they know we can't play against it....everytime we try we get stuffed but of course we continue with our 4-4-2....and hope....

I really hope he makes swingeing cuts, Stockton Red, for the reasons you give, and I agree that Lita and Kitson have worked hard at QPR and Peterborough.

The reason I went with the young lads was that Kitson will probably choose Fulham over us in January and we need to build for the future and, without Kitson, Lita has looked pretty toothless. But I think we are in broad agreement on the message that needs to be sent out.

The Red Army has no place for cowards!

I (almost) predicted this result after the 'lord mayors show' at QPR, and I wasn't a bit surprised to learn we'd lost at home again.

I tend to agree with a lot of what Mr Holloway had to say. I do believe that there are some factions of our fanbase who believed we would be too good for this league, and maybe there are some players who also thought the same thing.

Certainly the only thing that is consistent between GS1 and GS2 is the fact that apart from Kitson and Bent, they have the same players to pick from and the same back room staff running the show. The tactics to me at least haven't changed, it's just more tinkering with the same bunch of players and in reality we are no further forward. There are those amongst us who might argue we may have kept Southgate for what Strachan has achieved up to now.

So surely at least one of the constants has to change, and first of all it has to be the home tactics (if we accept that the away tactics are working). If we are getting overun or outworked by 5 man midfields, do it the McClaren way, match them up.

It might bore us to death, and no-one likes to see 4-5-1 at home but this is about not losing and gaining points, not being pretty (and we are not even that at home at the moment).

In defence, drop both Wheater and St Ledger (we should kiss goodbye to the 500K downpayment and welch on the deal with PNE), get Pogi and Riggot back in the centre, Hoyte at right back and Bennett or Grounds on the left.

In the middle get rid of Arca, and give Emnes the right sided slot, GON, Williams & and Digard in the middle and Johnson or Yeates on the left. Kitson or Lita up front supported by runs from midfield by GON and Emnes.

Yes, Nigel, there is an obvious candidate for left back: the exciting, adventurous Bennett, who can also tackle as well as anyone. He makes occasional mistakes, but he has to have a chance to learn and he looks like a really good quality player.

I'd love to see him linking up with Yeates - or Johnson perhaps (if AJ plays, he must play left wing): that could put a bit of real pressure - the kind that home teams should exert - on the opposition's 5-man midfield.

I'm with halifaxp, the team should be gutted from Tuesday night for the Cardiff game. If the same team is picked with a few tweaks it will be disgraceful.

I do not agree with GS2 stating that the players need a chance to redeem themselves - they have been trying all season to do that and they haven't done it. Drop the lot of them and play a completely different team. Arrogance counselling needs to be given to all senior members of the club, coaching and playing staff.

I'm not going to even watch the match on TV on Sunday, I'm still too embarrassed by Tuesday night.

halifaxp - I haven't seen Bennett play, but given our current predicament if he's a contender then there has to be a strong case for making a change.

Wheater may simply need a break, St. Ledger probably just needs some time to learn a little discipline but there is no time left now to be learning on the job.
I can see in the not to distant future a centre back pairing of Poggi and Riggot.
Wheater and St. Ledger will be back though, they're both decent players.

On the Redcar beach thing ,some of the players are that thick, Theyd probably pack their Sun Tan lotion

Mythbuster: Earlier in this thread, you said,

"This is still basically Southgate's team,....."

I’m compelled to point out that this is a conveniently-constructed half-truth by those focused on the smaller picture. And you do yourself no credit and belie your nom-de-plume by perpetuating it.

This is GIBSON'S team - as well as his club! It was "built" (some would say "demolished") on residual money after clawing back whatever he could in debt reduction and thereby setting the parameters within which Southgate and any successive manager had and will have to work.

He continues to do so with Strachan, although this hasn't been put to the big test, quite yet. But when any additional serious monies are made available, Gibson WILL be exposed, if he hasn't been already in many people's eyes, as the principal architect of Boro's slide into Championship obscurity.

In all the discussions about who's off the boil and who's out of position and who's too slow and...and...and..., when will anyone acknowledge the big picture and finally accept that without investment in genuine better quality playing staff in several (now, many) key areas, Boro are a very ordinary and inconsistent Championship side and maybe even not too far removed from being a possible relegation-battle Championship side?

Poor performance has little to do with fans. It's got everything to do with the team - their quality, experience and character. And these days, if you want them to be good, you generally have to pay for them!

If Gibson doesn't have that money or access to those lines of credit any more, that's not any manager's fault. And besides, whoever he is, the manager is also a Steve Gibson appointment!

The only way for Boro to differentiate from the bulk of the dross in the Championship is to spend more money on more and better players to a) get better competencies in place and b) strengthen the squad to sustain consistency.

Fan's reaction is generally that, REACTION. Not pro-action. Any pro-action from fans is generally positive until it is undermined by unacceptable performance on the pitch. Otherwise, why keep going to matches? You surely don't go to a football match hoping to watch your team get beat?

(Actually, on second thoughts, I think there ARE a number of people who "enjoy poor health" and perversely, enjoy being able to routinely shout negative abuse. I think, there will always be a faction with that sort of mentality around. Maybe Middlesbrough suffers from a higher percentage in the population than most?)

To think that the academy can be the source of the backbone of a team to challenge week in, week out in a Premier League, is naivety. Hansen said it years ago, and although it irks me to acknowledge it because of his smugness, he was right. That has been a part of Gibson's miscalculation over the past four years.

It's not that the academy isn't a great thing - it probably is - but it's far from being enough upon which to build the backbone of a top flight professional football team these days - because the game is global – as Gibson knew only too well when he brought in the likes of Juninho and Ravanelli and a host of other non-Brits to be able to compete in the Premier League.

Unless Gibson again splashes more cash to support what his publicly-stated ambition was in May - promotion at the first attempt - he'll fail. And it'll be interpreted that he'll have been seen to have deliberately misled the football-supporting public of Teesside (outside of Stockton, of course).

Increasingly, people are having to accept the growing mountain of evidence that Boro will not be seriously challenging for promotion to the Premier League. They are having to learn to accept Boro's new equilibrium position as, at best, a Championship side.

Incidentally, I believe Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb, deep down, genuinely have already accepted that as the case, because they KNOW what it takes to survive in the Premier League. And it appears that the Gibson empire can’t sustain it any more.

Oh yes, they, like all other supporters, will have HOPE that some alchemist's solution will miraculously be found by Wizard Stachan to justify their strategy. But the reality surely must be that they already know what the likely fate of MFC is? They're just not saying so, and allowing the gullible public to find out the hard way.

At least, that's how it appears to me! And has done for about two years, which was when it first really dawned on me!

Yes, OK, Si, it was a fortunate first goal against Liverpool - but a lot of goals contain an element of luck, like Lita's open play goal at QPR.

There were also many similarities - mostly a really committed performance all through the team (Bates typefying that in midfield), strong front-running from Aliadiere (yes, truly!) and a crowd which was fully behind the team from start to finish. My point was that both managers seem to have had the team playing for them with coherence, belief and passion on occasions (too few occasions!)

Richard I read your post with interest and of course in some respects it is near to the mark[regarding Steve Gibson].

At the end of the day if your club is in the Championship or lower then you have a choice and that is to enjoy football for what it is and support your team or leave it alone.

However it does not alter the fact that on Tuesday we were outfought, outthought and outplayed by a decent Blackpool team. Now they have poor crowds by this division's standards and have never had Premier League T.V. money.They have been in the lower leagues for years.

What do you think their top earner gets? My guess is 5 or 6 grand a week tops.Their wage bill will be a fraction of ours. It didnt stop their players busting a gut,closing down, moving off the ball to give a team mate an option and committed tackling - everything that was missing from our lot and that is what most fans cannot stomach.

I would try to keep things as simple as possible against Cardiff. A back-to-basics approach of as solid a spine as we can muster, attacking down the flanks and getting crosses into the box.

I would therefore stick with a 442 formation, but change the personnel. Pogatetz and Riggott would be my centre-half pairing. They are solid defenders who defend and little else.

I would put Digard and Williams/Osbourne in front of them as added protection. Two tackling midfielders who can win the ball back, help the defence and play simple balls out wide.

Attacking down the flanks, I would play our two most attacking full backs, which look to me to be Hoyte and Bennett. They can overlap and support the wide men, who'd be Yeates/Johnson and O'Neil.

Kitson and Lita up front.

Simples.

Mythbuster - a little harsh blaming Santa Claus for all this trouble. Tradition has it that he "has it in" for the Boro, but not for a couple of weeks yet.

Mind you, if Christmas and January are as bad as it has been in the last month or so, we are in for a rocky ride.

"Nigel Reeve said:
Did you not support Boro pre 1986, don't you remember what sort of club it was then?"

Err, sorry, but pretty much just as it is now, me thinks.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Richard. It finally dawned on me too at the end of last season, after three years of seeing my club being dismantled before my eyes, that my Boro, who I have supported for 50 years will never again reach the heights that culminated in reaching the Uefa Cup Final.

As my son said recently "Eindhoven to London Road in 3 years, what's going on dad?". Well I think most of us know the answer to that, it's really all about money, or rather the lack of it and the inability of Steve Gibson to sustain bankrolling a club that has been punching above it's weight for years.

I'm not going to slag off SG here, it's all been said before, other than to say I do believe he has hoodwinked a lot of people, including Gareth Southgate, possibly Gordon Strachan and more so the loyal fans.

I've certainly enjoyed the last "12 years of humiliation" and please sir could I have some more, but we need to be realistic.

We are now a middle of the road Championship team that is in danger of sinking without trace, and anyone who thinks we won't or can't do a Leeds, Norwich, Southampton or Charltion really need to wake up and smell the proverbial coffee.

On a personal level, I see a lot of parallels with the seasons under Charlie Amer and the Jackie Charlton and John Neal eras. Those of you with long memories like me I'm sure don't need to be reminded of what followed after Charlie decided to pull the plug; those of you of a younger vintage might wish to look back in history, talk to your dad's and granddad's. History has a strange way of repeating itself.

We are very soft down the centre of defence which when you consider we have Riggot & Pogatetz in our squad is puzzling.

The full backs like to stand off.

Did the team have their christmas party on Monday ?

SOLUTION:

Rest St Ledger & Wheater, Jones and reintroduce the criminally underrated McMahon. There you go, this management game is easy.

The trick is to understand the answers are on the pitch and in the squad and definitely not in the stands whether that be the Riverside or the Holgate End.

Forever Dormo wrote:

“Mythbuster - a little harsh blaming Santa Claus for all this trouble.”

No apologies. I just don’t trust the man. He came to the match dressed all in red and white, posing as a Boro supporter. Next thing, he’s talking Wheater and St Ledger into handing out early Christmas presents to people dressed in orange.

He did the same with Scrooge. A miserly defender until he fell under this guy’s influence.

The Pope, on the other hand, could be a useful addition to our squad. A left-footer who spends most of his time on the right wing. He’d fit in perfectly.

**AV writes: There's no way of transubstantiating that.

At the moment we are 11 points from a relegation spot and 2 points from a play off spot, so things might not be as bad as there seem.

The worrying thing is that the team do not seem to be improving under Strachan.

On to Sunday my changes would be to drop St Ledger (he is going to be missing soon) and play Pogi at CB and Bennett at LB.

I would play Osbourne and Digard in CM with O'Neill on the right and Yates on the left of midfield.

C'Mon Boro

Neil (Yarm) - You cannot seriously compare Steve Gibson to Charlie Amer, come on be reasonable!!

From todays 'daily record '

Tony Mowbray was today warned that captain Gary Caldwell could quit Celtic for his former club Middlesbrough for nothing unless he gets him tied up on a new deal in the next fortnight.

Scotland international defender Caldwell is out of contract at the end of the season, but has admitted he is keen to play on with the Parkhead club.

However, the Hoops skipper, who was named SPFA Player of the Year last season, is free to talk to other interested clubs from next month and there are several potential suitors for his signature.

Barclays Premier League new boys Burnley, where his brother Steven plays, have been repeatedly linked with a move for the former Hibs and Newcastle United player in recent weeks.

As have Coca-Cola Championship club Middlesbrough where Gordon Strachan, who took Caldwell to Celtic from Hibs for nothing on a Bosman deal back in 2006, is now in charge.

Strachan, who quit Celtic in the summer after failing to win a fourth consecutive Scottish title, is enduring a torrid start to his reign at the Riverside Stadium.

His side has only won one of the six games they have played since he succeeded Gareth Southgate as Boro gaffer – a 5-1 win over QPR last weekend – this season and the supporters at the Teesside club are growing increasingly restless.

A 3-0 defeat to Blackpool at home, where former Rangers star Charlie Adam was among the scorers, has caused many of them to question whether the Scot is the right man to take them back into the top flight.

The pressure the 52-year-old is now feeling could increase his chances of returning to his old club to plunder their out-of-contract players – with Caldwell top of the shopping list – during the January transfer window.

Having just watched the Blackpool goals on BBC. Someone needs to stick up for Wheater. The lad is too straight for his own good. He's trying to cover too much ground/area and he then looks like he is the one responsible for the mistakes

St Ledger was appalling in his attempts to tackle and get into position. These things happen and it has to be viewed in perspective but it is important that David Wheater doesn't shoulder the blame for everyone else's mistakes. There is an unpleasant tendency to blame the young and vulnerable in these circumstances.

Wedermouth 8.50 am

Well said.

John Aus

Nigel Reeve:

Nigel, would my apparent personal transformation be as astounding as Boro's, perhaps?

Don't bother to answer, Nigel. The question was as rhetorical as Steve Gibson's "Blind Faith" promise!

Solved the conundrum yet?

So the government has lost Mr Gibson's vote forever. Interesting....

I imagine his financial position is such that he would benefit greatly from a change of government. I'm not certain the rest of Teesside would be rewarded in the same way.

Well at least he's speaking again I was beginning to think we had sold him.

Richard I'm not so good at conundrum solving! I'm not having a pop at you, I'm curious more than anything.

Just following on from your 5:11pm post, what/who are you divorcing yourself from?
If its support for Steve Gibson, I can see that, although I think you over simplify what has happened thus making it easy to blame him for events.

But surely you cant divorce yourself from Boro, that simply isn't possible surely?

This squad is more than good enough to make the play-offs, whoever the manager is.

Nigel

My long held view was that Boro and MFC were different. The support for the former is absolute, support for the other is conditional on the health of the former and the governance of the latter.

AV

Beware of incoming as the 100 post mark arrives. One suspects that WerDormo Wallah are getting ready to inundate the board in their quest for pecuniary advantage.

I will, of course, continue contributing based on my Corinthian priciples. It is the taking part that counts. Anyone thinking I am posting at the 90 post point to gain an advantage is petty and small minded.

Presses submit with lofty disdain unconcerned at the 100 post mark.

It seems all the pundits are complaining about Strachan being a little prickly with them,I think he is frustrated with what he has inherited,and is finding it hard to answer honestly what he really wants to say about them,

He's got an unbalanced squad (more defenders than needed ) a squad that has very little character,have a losing mentality,and in many cases not good enough alot will end up in div 1 and 2 plying there trade,Im sure some of them already know theyre gone so get ready for a bumpy ride fans

Nigel Reeve:

Comparing Steve Gibson to Charlie Amer, hells bells no!!

I was simply using the point as an analogy, a parallel, a parody even.

When Charlie tightened his belt, Boro went from a promising side in the old Division 1 to almost going out of business in 1986 until Steve Gibson came on the scene.

For not too disimilar reasons Boro have gone from the Uefa Cup Final to a (currently) middle of the road Championship side in less than 4 years.

Who knows where next.

Sir Alex says: "Maybe he (Scholes) thinks he should be playing every game. That's fine, but I know that's not fair." Also PS will be offered a new one year deal at Old Trafford - but not regular football anymore.

Couldn't we go for a player like PS for Boro? We need steel and domination in midfield. To help and guide our kids. Up the Boro!

**AV writes: We asked in the summer. He wasn't interested. That's 100 by the way.

Did Digard last ten minutes against Blackpool? Now he's 'injured' again and out for two to three weeks. He's spent more time on the treatment table than on the pitch since signing for Boro. The frog's legs are obviously not up to life in the English game.

Get shot, ASAP!

Richard has done us all a service by ariculating very clearly and systematically the duplicity demonstrated by Steve Gibson over the last two years.

He has cleverly maintained a front of private benefactor and revelled in the title of 'best chairman in football'. On closer scrutiny his knowledge, judgement and experience of football matters is no better than the ordinary fan.

He has ruined the club through poor decision making,dithering and appointing not an aspiring manager but a lackey in Southgate.

I have lost confidence and trust in him as a chairman and I certainly feel duped into buying a season ticket this year.It won't happen twice.

There seems to be a paucity of honesty and clarity of where this club is going as there are goals at the Riverside.

AV, I will have difficulties with the Mercedes offered for the 100th post. You see we have a very heavy tax on new cars here in Finland - and the tax is C02 based too. So can I change that big V8 engined car to something smaller - a diesel engined Opel (or Vauxhal in the UK) will do. We are in the Championship, anyway.

Now I need to ask my wife when I can come over to collect the car. I dear not ask you to deliver it all the 1000 miles North East from the North East. (Also I could see a Bore match live during the same trip.) Thanks, AV!

Up the Boro!

I am pleased I didnt get the 100th post, it would have been a shallow triumph and as I said earlier I have loftier ideals

Should it have happened I would have given the Mercedes away to the chairman of the Mickleover branch (The Hollow chapter) of Boro supporters so that it could be used for trips to wtach the Boro.

I will however be watching from behind the sofa, oddly enough in The Hollow in Mickleover, in the vain hope my absence will help the cause.

Oy, Jarkko! First of all nicking the 100th post because the sun rises earlier in Finland. Secondly having a go at Redcar....

It is considerably more upmarket than Dormo, and some say that Dormo is really a suburb of the great metropolis that is Redcar. And they might not tell you this in Finland but Redcar has the oldest existing lifeboat in the world (the Glorious "Zetland", powered by fishermen pulling old-fashioned oars, and the saviour of more than 500 lives before being retired from service).

Of course Redcar might change a lot in the near future in the event of Corus closing down most of its works on Teesside. Don't want to be political here, but a mate recently suggested that if the Parliamentary seats on Teesside were marginals, instead of a shoo-in for the Labour Party, maybe a little more attention might be paid to things like this. Cynical or what?

Can we nick a win tomorrow?

I hope MFC start focussing on the game and the team and the rest of the season rather than community politics. I support Boro becasue they are my local team and I want to be entertained, excited and have hope and dreams for 90 minutes, thats all I want and thats all I expect.

I couldn't give a stuff about solidarity and SOS for our steelworks, it has the whiff of manipulation to divert attention from their own MFC mess and a desperate attempt to buy time and avoid a fans revolt.

Messr's Gibson, Lamb and Strachan need to focus on sorting out the shambolic state of affairs at the Riverside and desist from using others misery as a shield. If they were really politically motivated they would have had SOS embroidered on their shirts months ago and provided free advertising around the ground. They could have filled in one of the corners with a huge triangular banner advert in an effort to reduce the "red seat syndrome" thereby simultaneously solving one issues whilst supporting another (it's till not too late by the way and I'm happy not to say "I told you so" should they take up the suggestion).

I'm sorry if I appear a tad callous and cynical but a Championship team with a damaged PR image is not going to make Mr. Brown or Mr. Cameron suddenly join a crusade to preserve what little is left of Britain's Steel heritage (as our political leaders if they have no pride in British Steel we will remember that when they come knocking on our doors squirming for our votes come the General Election).

Steelworkers are sick of being given spin from people who should show them more respect (including politicians whose own reputations are even more damaged than that of MFC and should know better than to resort to £60M worth of spin).

If an appeal is to be made by MFC on Sunday it should be only for 3 points and an end to the dire football being served up at the Riverside for several seasons now. If MFC really want to help the commerce of the area then win promotion.

A Town with a Premiership side is always in Newspapers, TV's and Websites every single day, a Town with a Championship side is relatively unheard of. The priority of MFC should be to raise the profile of the area and in this respect Messr's Gibson, Lamb and Strachan can have a massive impact, unfortunately so far nothing I see or hear of late convinces me that MFC have the bottle or stomach for the battle ahead.

More worryingly I don't think they have the vision, desire or plan for the way back, they can no longer do it with big names and big salaries and the jewels of the youth system have been and are being flogged meanwhile anyone who cared and expressed concerns were ostracised in the belief that "Big Brother Boro" was right.

End the political "MFC thought control" and get back to being "Boro" then we have a chance of uniting and a chance of bringing back pride and respect for everyone in the Tesside conurbation (including Stockton).

I agree Ian, as harsh as it sounds, the belated SOS campaign is little more than gesture politics. Germany are facing the same problems with their diminishing steel industry - it's well known that western industry can't compete with their low-waged asian counterparts without subsidies. But like you say everyone is more than happy to reap the benefits of low-cost consumer goods - it's just the reality of having a global capitalist economy.

Anyway, it's very unlike Steve Gibson to instill false hope to thousands of people with the promise of a return to a better future. I don't know, why but I'm feeling confident about today's result - so appologies in advance for upsetting the karma police.

S.O.S. - Sixth On Sunday

15 minutes before KO and I've just got my Boro SMS team sheet:
Jones, McMahon, St Ledger, Wheater, Pogatetz, Yeates, Osbourne, Williams, Johnson, Kitson, Bent

So O'Neill, Arca and Lita are out from the team that started against Blackpool. No signs of a switch to a 4-5-1 with that teamsheet.

I fear the worst.

To quote ComeOnBoro's Andy Morgan:

"Perhaps Gareth Southgate was a good manager after all?"

I really, really don't want to believe he's right. But this season - at least - the stats, not to mention the manner and actions of Boro's board, are on the Gate's side.

Huth and Tuncay - cowards. Why didn't you have the sense to stay with a team that actually needed you?

We have reached rock bottom and I have had enough. Sitting in a cold half empty stadium watching football from the dark ages is too much.

No one now becomes animated by what they see on the pitch but there has become a mute acceptance of the weaknesses, sub standard football that is served up by a bunch of no-hopers and never will be's.

The decline of the club is there to be seen on and off the pitch. I see no positive future unless there is regime change at the very top and that will never happen unless there is divine intervention. Years in this league lie ahead, we have had our day in the sun, back to where we were throughout the postwar years in the second tier with second rate ownership, management and a team to match.

A chastening thought but sadly inevitable based on what I have seen this and last season.

It wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are making out. Cardiff are a good side. A draw would have been fair and if a team deserved to win it was the Boro.

Admittedly Burke was the best player on the pitch - actually that was one of the best personal performances I have seen at the stadium.

Chris Burke is a beautifully balanced player in body and mind. He knew when he could and should go past a player and when it was best to release the ball. His touch was deft, and concentration was faultless. He also had acceleration which he used perfectly. It was a joy to watch him run with the ball.

What sums him up is he knows how good he his but doesn't let it go to his head.
"REAL FOOTBALLER -LOVELY TO WATCH - ENJOYED HIS PERFORMANCE"

To improve we need to add someone who wants to control the defence with that in mind bring Riggot and Coyne back in, layoff the apocalyptic drama queen stuff and we will win 2-0 at the
St sportingworldsweatshopserveyourself.com Stadium