Won't Get Fooled Again?
MEET the new boss, same as the old boss... unfortunately, we did get fooled again.
There was an air of deja vu about an all too familiar game: Boro bossed the first half but squandered a string on good chances to take control and get a buzzing and expectant crowd right behind the team then slowly lost their way and shape and ignored a few warning shots before being struck by a bolt from the blue. By a team who were second bottom. And hadn't kept a clean sheet all season. Welcome to the Brave New World.
The goal conceded was sloppy. Wheater was shockingly slow as his three yard start evaporated and he was easily nudged aside before Mackie slotted home. And to be fair they had already carved out some good chances against a disjointed back line. Wheater and St Ledger don't yet look a cohesive unity. Hoyte is uncomfortable under pressure. Pogatetz is not ideal at left back.
Then to compound the agony of missed chances Boro missed a penalty and then disintegrated into a chaotic mess. Yes the referee didn't help. But neither did the lack of guile and gradual reversion to a long ball approach that suited Plymouth just fine.
And Southgate nostalgists will have enjoyed the 'square-pegging' - Arca was pushed out wide right, Poggi was in his worst position, Williams continued in midfield - the moments when Johnson was most effective down the right, the disappointingly low crowd and, yes, a little bit of frustrated booing there at the end.
But let's not rush into any premature judgments on the 'failure' of the Strachanovite revolution. For all it is easy to invest all the blame retriospectively in individuals it is not always helpful. Boro's problems are mainly due not to the evil or incompetent machinations of the deposed boss but to a chronic lack of investment in the squad over the past three years which has left a group that is structural weak and lacking in numbers, nouse, experience and options and a particular weakness in dealing with teams that come to sit deep, defend in numbers and hit on the break. The problems that were there a fortnight ago remain. There is no magic bullet.
Many may have expected an instant transformation (some poor deluded fools were even putting their daft quid on 4-1, 4-0, 5-1 and other overly optimistic scores) and plenty more were wary. Not least the many thousands who were not persuaded to return by the change in the dug-out. It makes you wonder if Southgate was a red herring with some all along. One caller on the Teess phone-in raised the stakes and said he will not now return until Lamb has gone. Then no doubt Gibson, Mark Page and Roary.
But chill. It is early days. There is only one new face in the squad in Bent. And there was one experienced player returning to the fold - the increasingly battered and bruised Pogatetz who lasted just 50 minutes before being whizzed off to casualty with a suspected fractured cheekbone that could put him out for up to two months.
This is still the team that has shown itself signally unable to break down team at home. It was a fourth defeat and fourth blank in five home games.
At least GS2 has now seen his team in action and will have seen exactly where the faults lie. There is plenty of industry and a zest at times going forward but a lack of killer touch in front of goal (Emnes should have buried that, Johnno should have rammed the penna home) and a fatal lack of rogidity and concentration at the back.
There is a lot of work to be done.
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Anthony Vickers
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Strachan will drag your team into the gutter lads. He left Celtic in a complete mess and spent a lot of money in the process. I understand that you'll give him a chance and rightly so, but if he signs Gary Caldwell or Scott Brown, worry......
No change there then. Unfortunately nothing will change until the January transfer window opens, even then it may be too late. If you can't get the simple skill of passing the ball to a team mate sorted, then it will be a long struggle.If GS2 thinks Arca is a better player and option than Digard, then heaven help us.
The Emperor has no clothes.
Strachan has had less than a week with the squad he has inherited. Already brought in a target man, which was something we've lacked since the failed signings of Mido and Alves.
It will take a few matches for him to get a good grasp on which players are worth their places in the team. Expect it to get worse before it gets better.
Don't look for miracles overnight, but expect some transfer movement, in and out, in January.
SOUTHGATE OUT, SOUTHGATE OUT! oh.. wait, hang on a minute who are you lot going to blame now??
Going to Crystal Palace next week and looking forward to the usual entertaining away performance. Im happy im an away fan this season (though wasnt last year)!
The good thing about today's game against Plymouth is that it will give GS2 a smack in the face by reality. He will realise this team, at least as currently laid out and how it has been playing, will NOT get promotion without a lot of work. If he thought promotion was almost a shoo-in, given a tweak here and there, he will now be aware that was wrong.
Maybe some in the team believed the hype and thought they were relegated unfairly last season, and that it was a probability they would go straight back up this year. WRONG!
We were relegated last season because we couldn't score goals and we were good at conceding them. We lost possession when we should have kept hold of the ball; we turned too little of our possession into shots, and too few of those shots were goals.
If we are not careful the same might be said, in a watered down way, this year. I am not saying we'll be relegated (because we would have to be much worse than that to go down THIS season) but if it continues it will become increasingly unrealistic to expect to go up.
However GS2 has had only days with the squad. I expect he will make changes (I believe training is already different and that the coaches are learning from GS2, when it was the other way around with GS1) and I would hope those changes will result in improvements being made.
But really, to lose at home to Plymouth! I should have known it - as they hadn't kept a clean sheet all season so far, and we know what the Boro are like for ending "runs".
Hopefully it will be better next week. I wonder whether the next home game will have a bigger crowd though, and this is a pity because if we had won well today, and then went away to get a good result at Palace next week (not an unreasonable assumption in view of our away form), people might well have come to the view that the managerial change meant that things were on the way up, and that they wanted to be part of the resurrection. Curses again! But let's hope it was a slap in the face, not a complete derailing of our ambition.
And as to the crowd, unless I am much mistaken, the nearest guesstimate was Grove Hill Wallah at 11.23am (21,494). No doubt he will now be known as the Tonka Truck: quite handy if he took up Sumo Wrestling. It was a disappointingly small number for those of us who had hoped the Riverside would be full and rocking.
There were 14 figures submitted (again if I have noted them correctly), ranging from 17,600 (shame on you Allan in Bahrain at 9.21am on 28.10.09 for being so pessimistic!) and 25,438 (hold your hand up, Esk Valley Red at 10.42am on 31.10.09).
My 24,690, at third highest, must mean I am a foam hander. The embarrassment...
OK then – that didn’t go to plan did it?
I didn’t expect to lose to Plymouth and if I’m honest I expected us to win it with some comfort. I expected these things because we have a far superior squad and should have a far superior team. I expected it because we had a brand new manager to impress and in any case it’s was a game we should be winning no matter who was in charge. Losing the game was very disappointing because we all expected to win it, but more disappointing for me was the fact there was no discernable improvement in our performance. Take a breath - rant over!
Given time GS2 will no doubt improve the squad and put his stamp on it - there just hasn’t been time for that yet. Given time he will help the team regain their home form and remember that they are a talented group – but 5 training sessions isn’t enough time for that either – is it? These things will no doubt happen with time, but I really expected the “new manager syndrome” to produce a better show against Plymouth - even with more or less the same personnel.
And therein lies the issue. I accept that it’s a long season but we have to pay due attention to that gap if we really intend to get promoted. Don’t misunderstand – the panic of the “remove him along with various other club officials” kind that I’ve heard today is almost unbelievable, but GS2 must now have no doubt whatsoever just how big his new job is going to be – and we must be prepared to give him some time to do it.
Not convinced about Strachans appointment, but willing to give him the time he needs. Today should not be a reflection on him.
What has happened to Wheater? He seems ineffective at set peices (once he could score a few goals a season in the premiership) and now seems unable to handle basic defensive situations.
Tactically we were all over the place, ironically Arca was my M.O.M who at least looked like he actually wanted to win, St. Ledger ran a close second along with Lita who was full of running and was being dragged all over the place but blind to the Officials who again were as bad as the rest we have to suffer in this league.
The rest were collectively a mixture of ineffective, unproductive or just downright abysmal. What Justin Hoyte was supposed to be doing I had no idea but there again clearly nor did he.
Here was a Right Back who had no offensive pressure to deal with all afternoon and could literally have put a deck chair out and opened a 6 pack. He is supposed to be an athlete who apparently can sprint a bit so forgive me for expecting him to tear down the wide open virtually unoppossed wing but no. Everytime he got possesion he stopped, dragged the ball back and looked to either pass back or infield.
When Arca (who was out of position) got possesion and looked for Hoyte he was behind him or to the side. Not once did he run wide or even cut in dragging defenders and opening space up. I can only assume that is either the best he could offer or he had been coached to keep it tight at the back.
Either way why was the game plan not changed because here was an extra man who was not in huge parts of the game and an opportunity waiting to be exploited.
Midfield was the same old story. GON was looking out of sorts and nothing like the player he has been all season, I'm sorry but I just don't get the Williams in midfield thing, to me he looks like a defender trying to fill a temporary gap and has done all season.
Wheats clearly needs to concentrate on his game rather than trying to Captain the rest of them. Either he needs a break from the Captaincy or he needs a break period. Emnes continues to be an enigma, I personally doubt he will ever make it in England as he is too light weight and offers no outlet or end product.
Jinky's penalty miss aside he couldn't get the breaks to open them up which was the main reason why Hoyte was a spare part for most of the game with nobody to pick up as Argyle largely abandoned their left flank.
Overall very disappointing and nothing on display to show that there has been a seed change at the club yet, lets hope its just early days because the rumblings were there again on the terraces and the punters were unimpressed.
On a slightly different note a bit of a PR gaffe from "me Mark Page", poor kids being dismissed on their big day at the Riverside, after the Watford full time gaffe from him I'd have thought he'd have learnt his lesson. Hope pogi has a speedy recovery, he was looking good on his return.
Such is life.
One gets the suspicion that what it reinforces is what we already knew in that we are not quite good enough. We are not awful, we wont go down, we have weaknesses at the moment that will hold us back.
I do have certain concerns about scoring goals, defending, square peggism.
Whilst the crowd wasnt huge it was largely Boro fans and they let them down again. make no mistake it was 50% possession and they had plenty of shots.
Tricky run of games coming up, just got to stick at it.
I agree, Strachan's failure to bring an immediate improvement in home performances have probably highlighted the overall weakness of the team.
Whether improved coaching will lead to a change in fortunes remains to be seen but will we see some new investment in the team come January? or will we have to generate income with sales? Though I think the playing of Arca, Pogi and recruiting of Bent indicates that GS2 feels the team needs some experience on the pitch.
Perhaps the downside of Strachan injecting something of the fear-factor may have lead to Johnson feeling extra pressure on the penalty. However, if Boro are going to remain in touch of promotion then they're going to need to start showing some nunchuks when they play at home for the Wii Fella.
AV: "Boro's problems are mainly due not to the evil or incompetent machinations of the deposed boss but to a chronic lack of investment in the squad over the past three years which has left a group that is structural weak and lacking in numbers, nouse, experience and options and a particular weakness in dealing with teams that come to sit deep, defend in numbers and hit on the break. The problems that were there a fortnight ago remain. There is no magic bullet."
Well..........Hallelujah!!!
Somebody with a public platform is FINALLY prepared to say that the squad isn't good enough! Maybe you should also have a word with Alistair Brownlee who’s giving a decent impression of someone who’s paid by Gibson, rather than BBC Radio Tees these days!
Pretty much until your statement (above), I felt like a (disloyal) lone voice crying in a wilderness of over-optimism with a seemingly continuous wind-rush of rose-tinted assessments by posters about how our squad should have the beating of anyone in this league!! Says WHO? The evidence is simply not there!
AV, it seems you've just joined the 12-15,000 or so others that have progressively come to realise this over the last three years and who aren’t all of the “It’s all Southgate’s” fault persuasion!
If so, then welcome to this side of the fence Mr Vickers!
Those who want to see Premier League football on Teesside at any time in the future, may reasonably ask the question how on Earth it's going to happen. Either that, or quickly change their tune and get used the utter dross that's now getting served up at the Riverside week in, week out!
From my own perspective, I gave Gibson the summer and a third of the season to do something about it. So far, he's only gone for the window-dressing, crowd-appeasing option and sacked the manager he handed the poison chalice to in the first place! In doing so, he offended many and we’re now heading in the same direction as that black and white shambles up the A19! The lunatics ARE indeed running the asylum!
However, it appears that one thing Gibson has been right about. At least SOME supporters are knowledgeable. Some, (an estimate might be about 12-15,000!) now non-attending hitherto Boro supporters are not taking kindly to having the wool pulled over their eyes as Gibson tries to paper over the cracks in the hope of finding a cheap solution to a problem of his own making.
Nobody’s blaming him for not being richer than he is, but I AM blaming him for effectively duping the Teesside public (and disgracefully, in my view, the Boro support), treating them like idiots while selling off the family jewels and at the same time, allowing, or even encouraging the belief that European football remained the realistic and last-declared club ambition.
But it appears that many aren't quite so ready to be favourably influenced by the "change the manager" posturing, as no doubt Gibson would have been hoping for. Today’s attendance of 21,141 (I was the “1”, by the way!) was only some 3,500 up on the previous, and all-time Riverside low home outing – even in the full glare of the Strachan Factor.
However, perhaps there was some residual and reactive Southgate Factor. I’m not convinced that the visitors being “lowly” Plymouth Argyle would necessarily have dissuaded attendees, because on Teesside there was an expectation of a routine 3-points collection day, as Boro’s would-be Premier Leaguers sought to impress the new boss! I would have imagined that people may have been encouraged to come out if they thought the prospect of a Boro win was higher.
But maybe I read that wrongly and the perhaps the net disposable income demographics on Teesside are such that £20-30 for a ticket to watch almost routine Boro home defeats in poor-quality Championship football is increasingly likely to take a back seat as Christmas spending gets under way and unemployment continues to rise?
If Gibson thought that a change of manager would bring an instant return of all of those who have deserted the ship that he effectively holed below the waterline three years ago, then I guess he’s going to learn the hard way.
It’s likely that Gibson has underestimated the Teesside public as much as many of the Teesside public over-estimated him three years ago – and some still do!
As far as the new manager is concerned, I'm giving Strachan a few more matches to get settled in, but I really can’t see anything on display out there to get the adrenalin running at all.
What could make for an interesting blog topic, might be what options there are to possibly do something about it? Because Gibson would appear to be out of affordable ideas! Well, any that appeal or appear feasible to HIM, at least!
I take this opportunity to repeat what I’ve been saying now for months. Without spending a lot of money and/or find other ways of attracting much better players to Teesside, Boro will NOT be an automatic promotee from the Championship this season, and neither are we good enough to win through the lottery of the play-offs.
The trouble is, there is a critical mass of people who still think it’s possible with what we’ve got –if only we’d organize and motivate them better. But, like the attitude towards relegation that “came out of the blue” (!) last season and proved to be a risk too far, so there is a real danger that similar complacency or lack of willing to flash the cash will condemn Boro to the Championship well into the future.
So far, Gibson, for me, simply hasn’t yet done enough! And if and when he does, and Strachan is lined up to take the credit for it, the irony won’t be lost on the decent man he sold down the river! But I suppose it’ll be forever impossible to convince some on Teesside (and elsewhere) of that.
Two penalty misses . Time for some one else AJ. You got away with your first one earlier this season but no hiding now. Time for Wheats to have a spell but then Pogi gets injured . Same old boro. Cant believed you missed the Halloween horror headline AV! Who's next on the loan radar?
**AV writes: Cliches? We avoid them like the plague.
If Villa are stilling wanting Wheater for £9 million then....SELL.
Was he a one season wonder? He is very poor this season and even very average Championship players are giving him the runaround. Even last season he was far from confident and was found out on many occasions.
Perhaps his heart is no longer at Boro???
Well,
Were we really surprised? Typical Boro had us in the headlights there didn't she. I mean what did we really expect. A team that hadn't won, hadn't scored against super Boro flying high at the top - at home where we always do well.........
I remember as a nipper climbing over the boys end wall - before they put up the fence for the Man Utd game, and joining a few OAP's on the north east terrace. They hated the cold and were always miserable even if we won. They had no illusions, we were crap always were and always would be until big JC came along to ruin everyones misery.
Lets face it, we wouldn't be happy unless things were bad - at least it was an honest display and showed the new boss just how good we are. Well he knows now and the ink is hardly dry on that contract and i bet he must thinking that he has taken on a huge challenge - what was it he said "I'm here because I want to be" and it is something different !!!!!
On the bright side I think Steve Gibson must have seen this one coming because had SG drawn last week through a late goal and lost yesterday he would have been fired on the spot and not just by the Boro - by 21,000 angry fans cheering as he was lynched from the Transporter bridge. So GS2 was brought in in the nick of time by our saviour.
I agree that we have to give the new guy some time but we cannot afford to drop any more points at home - a 100% home record is now needed to keep up with the pack and we have to at least get 1.5 points per game average away from home. Otherwise we will just end up by being another championship club from a small town somewhere in England.
It does get hard to look for positives in this very boring home situation. But here's one: GS2 has had a chance to see a "classic" home performance, and thus has a chance to see what is wrong.
For instance: people not confidently running around at throw-ins and open play actively wanting the ball; Wheater looking half the player he was with Huth alongside him; too much long-ball stuff and a crying need for a midfielder who can pass the ball accurately and incisively forward (although why on earth was Digard not playing?? - close to MoM at Preston, surely?); a chronic reluctance to move forward and "gerrintoem" at home.
If we'd done a dead cat bounce for GS2, he might not have seen these things so clearly. One of our problems was almost solved (in theory at least, since his hamstrings seem suspect) and that was achieved by Marcus Bent's contribution, not only giving us a clued-up target man, but also showing us how much better it is for us to have the two strikers playing for the most part no more than 20 yards apart, which is something I haven't seen since Viduka was here. Leroy and he seem made for each other.
Arca was the best player on the pitch, mostly in the second half, closely followed by the Ledge, but I am worried by the thought that Wheats and Ledge do not look as if they naturally understand each other's games, with Sean being much more mobile and adventurous than Wheats, and Wheats seeming rather baffled by the idea of an mobile and adventurous central defender!
He looks lonely and panic-stricken when left to cope on his own - and everyone knows he's gone backwards since getting the captain's armband.
There are, thankfully, plenty of games left for GS2 to sort things out, and there is plenty of talent in the squad for him to work with. We should resist repeating the mantra that they are infinitely better than other players in this division, at least until they prove such a claim, because one of the big things I hope for from the managerial change is a questioning of some of these young lads' egos.
Nothing has changed yet in another important regard: we still need to pull together as fans and as Teessiders, heal divisions and get the numbers and the morale up at the Riverside.
COME ON BORO!!
The next debate will be about where were all the people who said they didnt go because Southgate was manager.
We added 3,500 Boro fans to the crowd. I guess that will be a mixture of Southgate out, a new manager and the hope of better football.
We were never going to back up to 25,000+ fans without some decent winning football for a number of matches. The problem the fans have is that most of them havent seen us away, not even on TV never mind live.
The Gateistas will deride those who said it was Gate keeping them away when it is far more complicated. The fans have been bored silly and become frustrated. They see a side with repeated failings stemming from a squad 'building' excercise best described as third world shanty town by Bodge it and Scarper. It wasnt just an anti Gate movement.
I watched the three home defeats in a row. That cost me around £200. Add in the away matches and it starts adding up in tricky time for all of us. I have missed the last couple at home but have loads of away matches in the midlands to go to so will see my fair share over the season. I will pick and choose home games to go to, it is a long drive back when you are hacked off again and there is plenty of decorating and gardening that needs doing.
What will not help is the type of team selection from yesterday. You could see it in the live AV Super Blog when the team was posted and the comments came in about Land Crab right wing and Mad Dog left back. Even Williams instead of Digard.
The stay away fans who thought about it but said no will have seen the line up, score and reports and thought '£25-30 well saved.' I am not dering GS2 or Gate so no rants please, just looking at factors surrounding the crowd and club.
I personally thought it was time for GS to move on but the all new version, GS2, has had a stuttering start. A Morris Marina with sparkling chrome, lowered suspension and new alloys is still a Morrris Marina.
It looks like it will take time to change things at the Riverside. Lets hope we keep getting the points on our away trips. We are slowly slipping down the table and could be ninth by next Saturday.
There are plenty of games left this season but if we want to get fans back we need to start winning at home and doing it in a little bit of style. It will need a little bit of patience from all of us.
**AV writes: I think the biggest disincentive to 'going back' is that ex-ST used to pay £17 a game for Man U, Arsenal and, Jesus Wept, even Blackburn but yesterday were asked to pay £24 for Plymouth. That's when people realise exactly how over-priced the product has become.
AV
I hadnt factored in the season ticket factor but as you say, it makes it even harder.
New Manager, same result. Ground Hog Day.
Square pegs in round holes already. Two of the best performers at Preston were Digard and Bennett, and he dropped them both, which I hope was because of knocks.
Patterns are emerging with our performances both at home and away.
At home we have got into a rut of losing 1-0 to mediocre sides, and away from home we have got into a habit of throwing away games in time added on.
GS2 has got his work cut out over the next few months if he is going to resolve these problems.
I have to echo a lot of sentiments made about David Wheater. He has to be relieved of the Captain's duties. He is not a natural leader and it is certainly affecting his performances.
Marcus Bent showed signs of promise, and from his post match interview he intimated that he wanted to stay beyond the two month trial period, which indeed is encouraging news.
As for Adam Johnson, I sincerely hope he does not get carried away with his own hype. We could tell by the way the keeper psyched him out that he was going to miss that penalty.
Let us all hope that was the last Riverside Horror show of the season regardless of the fact that is was Halloween !
Richard is right.
The chronic lack of investment (or put another way, the massive disinvestment) in the squad over the last few years has resulted in a very average Championship squad. Gibson and Lamb are to blame for this.
Southgate did his best with what was available to him and he has been used as the scapegoat in the most shabby manner possible in an effort by Gibson to placate the boo-boys and to get more bums on seats. In place of Southgate a supposedly experienced and successful manager in GS2 has been appointed (although looking at GS2's record the extent of his supposed success is very questionable) in a further sop to the Southgate out brigade.
Well, there weren't many more bums on seats yesterday and if what we saw on the pitch reflects the impact that GS2 is going to have on motivation, organisation, performances and results, then God help us.
In six months we have sunk from the Premiership to a home defeat by Plymouth Argyle, we are slipping down the table and the prospects of promotion are fading rapidly. On yesterday's evidence, I would be surprised if we finish in the top half of the table.
AV
And it isnt £24 when you throw in the best part of a tank of fuel, the loss of a full day or afternoon/evenin, parking food etc..
Wheater has only ever looked good when he has played alongside Woodgate and Huth - something which is not exactly difficult. Wheater is also not a captain.
Our biggest problem from the day Southgate took over to today is that we did/do not have a strong club captain. Pearson, Townsend, Ince, Southgate were all fantastic captains. we desperately need to find the next name on that list - and for my money we wont find him in the current squad! I have a feeling WGS will spot this and sort it asap
Richard's post for me says it all, but is going over old ground.
However Mr.Strachan does not have a magic wand, and the team is NOT as good as a lot of people have believed. The problem for me is can we really stay in touch with the pack now, because we will certainly not keep in touch with the top two or three.
Then come the next window, how much money will be available, and depending where we are in the table, can we attract the right players, assuming we have some money to spend.
Then going back to Richard's post, how can someone be so inept in contract negotiations that we will have three of our better players possibly signing precontract agreements in January, or having to sell them to get something for them, if they were willing to go. Me I would wait until the summer, and get a better deal. And as for Mr.Strachan, my choice would have been Merlin.
If Strachan is going to have £15 M ,why didn't we just keep Huth and use our money properly. Big Wages ? - quality players won't come for peanuts. Hopefully Cooper and Agnew will walk the plank also - make a clean sweep Strachan.
Strachan made a very prophetic remark when he quoted Alex Ferguson last week "a team is only as good as it's strikers".
Well our three plus the two loanees have amassed a grand total of 7 in one third of a season including a mind numbing 5 blanks out of 8 at home against average opposition. Collectively they are not good enough and are the principal reason why we will not be promoted.
Whilst clearly that is nothing to do with Strachan one has to wonder on what basis the midfield was changed yesterday. Bear in mind the Strachan had only seen the team on a social day out at Coventry with his grandson and no doubt had Pendry's report as to how they totally dominated most of the game at Preston.
Why change O'Neill- Digard- Williams -Johnson???.To be fair to Arca he had a decent game out of position but where was Digard who has clearly been getting back to fitness and form?.The problem was the central two who produced nothing for 90 minutes other than to remain static and pass sideways.If Southgate had selected Arca to play on the right the lynch mob would have been out.
At the back Wheater had a dreadful afternoon and appears to have lost all self belief.If either Riggott or Pogi were fit you could not justify selecting him.
This squad is not good enough as Richard says and by the time Strachan has had a reasonable chance to work out what he wants to do [10 games] I cannot believe we will still be as near to automatic promotion as we are now.
We sacked Southgate when we were one point off the top of the league and whilst I understand why it happened what next if we fail to even make the play offs? Bearing in mind Mr. Gibson's stated reasons for his decision where will that leave Strachan?
A huge disappointment. I for one thought a genuine manager would fix some of the most obvious problems but not with that side.
Some have said well he only had 5 days to work with the players and get to know them. But just a minute - didnt he spend last weekend watching videos of Boro's season to date? I think anyone could pick a side that was an improvement after that.
The only straw i can cling to is that perhaps certain players were given last chances - Hoyte and Emnes coming to mind straight away. Thats the only reason I can think of why Bent didnt start and have Emnes replace him part way through. Or why Hoyte got the nod over McMahon, Williams over Digard, etc
I really hope I'm wrong but OMG what have we done to deserve Strachan? On the good side: he will deal with the press and useless biased referees in a different way, creating more attention for the club.
On the down side: he is certainly clever - that is clever enough to see when things are going wrong before it becomes apparent to everyone else. Just look at the mess Coventry and Southampton were in after he left, too similar to be a coincidence! Lots of people reckon he's left Celtic in a mess too - if they weren't such a comparative giant in their league it would be more obvious.
Only good factor is that he might do a Keegan and walk out in the huff in about six months - I hope it's actually six weeks so we can get a proper manager.
Not the end of the world. Disappointing but it takes time. The big difference I think we have is that in January and beyond Gordon Strachan makes Middlesbrough a more attractive destination for players.
The comments of Andy Griffin were pretty revealing;
"It's something I'd really have to consider, playing for a manager of his calibre, it's a good club. If I get a phone call, which I haven't yet, then we'll have to wait and see."
Griffin has a lot of Premier League experience and the more players like him we attract the better.
And AV, thank you for the link last week, that may send readers into a new stratosphere, I will bub it the "AV effect" and let you know of results ;-)
You are right to finally acknowledge the weakness of the current squad, but Southgate can’t be absolved from responsibility for that. In fact, he said it himself recently, “This season it felt like my team on the pitch for the first time”.
Underinvestment in the squad is certainly a factor but it doesn’t alter the fact that, from Euell to Yeates, Southgate’s dealings in the transfer market were rarely much of a success.
Yesterday exploded a myth which many fans seemed to believe. Both supporters and opponents of Southgate have been saying that the squad is one of the best in the Championship.
His supporters thought we would waltz back into the Premier League if only we believed. But they probably also believed in alien abduction and yogic flying.
His opponents believed that the players were actually much better than they appeared, and a new manager would immediately release their hidden potential. The sad truth was clearly exposed yesterday, we have a squad which may get to the playoffs, but there is no guarantee even of that.
It was always unrealistic to expect that a new manager would work miracles in a single week. Since he could not resign because of his kiddies’ well-being, Southgate should have been dismissed in the summer. Then the new man might have had time to build a squad and formation which could mount a serious promotion challenge this season.
But now, how soon Strachan can improve this squad remains to be seen. He may even fail, but it will take some time before we know either way. Automatic promotion is an unrealistic target, just as it was with Southgate in charge.
Whatever can be achieved this season is going to be a struggle, and the odds are that it will not end in promotion. Laying blame for that at Strachan’s door will be premature. But he must improve these players by the end of the season or move them out. Maybe next season can then bring the promotion everyone craves. The bigger question is, how many will still be watching by then?
Boys boys boys!!!! It's his first game!!! If i'm not mistaken, didn't McClaren get thumped by 10 man arsenal in his first game? Patience. If we lose our next game then call for his head!!! lol.
I agree that Wheater must be rested. His poor positioning and lack of pace has cost us, not just this season but last season as well. If his transfer value drops as will be the case, then so be it, results are more important.
Wheaters' lack of form has highlighted a weakness in our team that has been overlooked, ie, the lack of pace, quickness and alertness in defence. For example, if all those single goal defeats were changed into draws we would be top and may even have survived last season. I realise we need to score more goals but good teams build from the back so this problem needs to be sorted.
As far as midfield goes what has happened to Josh Walker? He was looking our best prospect in this department, so why isnt' he playing? In my opinion if you are good enough you are old enough.
"peterboroangel said: "What has happened to Wheater? He seems ineffective at set peices (once he could score a few goals a season in the premiership) and now seems unable to handle basic defensive situations."
I suspect Wheater's not as good as he thinks he is.
"Richard said: So far, Gibson, for me, simply hasn’t yet done enough!"
Indeed, not much for sometime now.
"Anthony Vickers said: One caller on the Tees phone-in raised the stakes and said he will not now return until Lamb has gone".
Lamb should have gone a long, long time ago. He is a large part of what is rotten at the heart of things. Won't get fooled again? I know you've deceived me, now here's a surprise!
Let's not get carried away... the new fella needs time to evaluate what hes got and what he hasnt,and lets be honest we have not got much left.
A complete rebuild will take a couple of seasons, Promotion this time round might not be achievable, it may be better to build a solid base and go for it next year. From what I've seen this season we have only two or three who are average premiership players at best, Some are not even championship quality,its going to be a long road back.
Too much over analysis is bad for the soul, especially souls that have been tortured too much, too often. Give yourselves a break, folks and take a step back.
It will take some time for Strachan to mold his team. For the best managers able to work with players, it isn't rocket science getting them to spark as a team. There are some good managers out there that get the best out average players; I believe Strachan is one of them.
Anyhow, instead of being entirely negative, I'd suggest we think about some of the positive aspects of the game that we can take forward to the next match.
Bent is Strachan's player - he did well for 45 minutes on all accounts. For those that went to the game, is this a fact? Despite Arca being played out of position, was he not effective, particularly in the second half? Didn't Jones and St Ledger put in good performances?
I heard that on free kicks and corners, Strachan did something far more positive by getting more players in the box? Am I wrong or is this a fact? And was the supply of crosses into the box in greater number than previously?
For goodness sake, it's like long-term collective depression has taken over our ability to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
With time, Strachan WILL get us playing better. We have to accept that there is no money to buy us success. Finally, we have an experienced man who is gifted at bringing out the best in average players.
That has to be our strategy and we should start buying into it or have Teesside on a permanent drip feed of Valium.
**AV writes: I agree with most of that. You have the advantage of distance.
Surprised to hear you say 'buzzing and expectant crowd'.
Went to the game with a friend who supported Argyle and sat in the away end for the first time ever. Was frankly embarrassed about the silence of the crowd. There was a cheer for Strachan but heard nothing again til the end of the game apart from snarling over reffing decisions and the penalty. Really not a peep.
Maybe its the acoustics - but frankly was v poor.
I did my bit clapping with the Green Army who were pretty impressive actually. If we hadn't made a noise would have made the Marie Celeste sound like a Club 18-30 booze cruise!
**AV writes: It's all relative. Maybe it was just the absence of simmering malevolence and the smiling It didn't last long to be fair.and chatter in the concourse that fooled me into thinking it was optimism.
I was going to comment on the 'not coming back until Lamb leaves' guy on the radio, but you beat me to it AV.
It seems we have a core of people (I'm not going to call them fans, because fans stick by their team), who just want to be angry at the club. Gareth was the original target for that anger, now we need someone else. Poor Steve Gibson - he does what he thinks the fans want, and he gets a couple of thousand on the gate. I'm not sure I'd continue to bother if I was him - but of course he is a real fan and will continue to plough his money and time into the club.
What we lacked in the match was composure. We actually got plenty of decent balls into the box, but more often than not we panicked at the final finish. Arca was excellent on the right - in fact he and Jones, our two most-maligned players, were probably our two best players.
Apart from that, I don't think it will take much work from Strachan to get that team winning. They just need to be partient at home, and chances will come. Keep possession, let the opposition chase us around, press and probe and opportunities will come our way.
I know people get frustrated at the sideways passing, but it's better to have the ball than lump it forward and lose it. The crowd were actually pretty good in this regard yesterday - again for the players it is about composure and confidence and not just panicking and playing the long ball.
We also need drive in midfield, which surely Digard is best placed to provide. The penalty was achieved by this, though by a central defender in St. Ledger. Williams has done well this season, but I think it's time for him to step down for a bit. In fact, why not play him at right-back, Hoyte has indeed looked poor.
Marcus Bent impresses me greatly - his post-match interview was quite interesting as he wasn't too concerned about the result - we're up there, we created chances and results like that will happen in a long season. Obviously he hasn't been part of the similar previous results, but he maybe offered a bit of perspective.
He definitely looked like he would add that physical presence, and his experience should be vital as well. Good to see that he ran straight up to Adam Johnson after the penalty to give him a pat on the back.
I'm not sure what some people are expecting from our budget team (albeit overly paid compared to the real world) - but we are where we are because the credit card was maxed out and what was left in the wardrobe after it was cut in half just didn't match - Yes you could argue that Gibson is no longer fit for purpose but we then need a credible alternative to replace him.
Though those who were expecting a 'dead cat bounce' need to realise that first the cat has to be dead - it wasn't dead, it was just having kittens every time it was at home. However, if some fans are expecting to see a £15m kitty in January after spending has been so savagely clawed back then they must be hoping SG has made a serious U-turn over his pet project.
I was pondering earlier whether I could legitimately blame Southgate for the unbalanced fragile team that Boro ended up with - but I have to thank Mythbuster for reminding us of the "This season it felt like my team on the pitch for the first time" quote.
It was SG1's choice not to bring in the 'right stuff' and it's not going to change within a week of SG2 arriving either - If other teams on our budget can work out how to score goals at home then so can we - it's going to take a pretty major overhaul though.
I think we probably did have more in the box for set pieces as at one point Plymouth had a slightly ridiculous four-on-one situation from one of our corners - which was rescued by Hoyte, so he wasn't all bad.
A bit too much doom and gloom, methinks (though I wasn't at the game, so like Neil in Canada I have the benefit of distance).
I did go to Scunthorpe and Preston. Both were impressive performances (despite the late goal at Deepdale); apparently we were also good at Swansea, Reading and Sheff Wed. Four wins on the road and two draws says there's not really much wrong.
We do have a reasonable squad which is capable of winning promotion- but GS2 will quickly need to devise tactics that get us winning at home against a five-man defence. Not easy, but not rocket science either. Perhaps a couple more experienced loan signings, too? Have faith!
Let's hope for better for the next home game then...
Someone did ask whether it was possible to buy an "away season ticket" and maybe, in the final analysis, that would be a good idea. The home version is a bit grim.
The boro puzzle has no short term solution. The current squads ability has had its perceived strength hyped and overinflated by fans and media expectation.
They simply do not have enough talent and ability to unlock the defence of most championship teams at home, and they are not mature enough to go through a game without making a fatal defensive error.
Its not the day to day performance of the management team, its not the tactics, its the players – the squad is not good enough to challenge for promotion. We ( the Boro faithful ) need to come to terms with the reality of our new world quickly and start enjoying what we have rather than expecting something currently unrealistic.
We are not going to get promoted this year or even the next. This set-up has yet to bottom out.
Bitterly disappointed - yes. But what can you wait to change in a week. So wait until Xmas for an improvement. Also please give Digard and Walker a chance. Digard should start and Josh must make to bench.
Daily Mirror suggest that Leon Best, Coventry City’s Republic of Ireland international striker, is being chased by Middlesbrough boss Gordon Strachan. Best, 23, who has scored six goals so far this season, is out of contract next summer.
I think it's best if we sign a striker soon. Up the Boro!
Same old same old. We had the chances to put the game to bed in the 1st half and then fell at the last with a well taken goal that killed us off.
The players have surely fallen into a mentality of underachievement and averageness. Wheater has just lost the plot and can be singled out maybe as the biggest problem. confidence has just drained out of him and maybe has lead to a lack of fitness and concentration.
Strachan will get it right but if we had won maybe it papered over the cracks, Apparently you learn more from losing than you do from winning in this game. We have got a good test against Palace next week and with another week of training under his belt I think we may start to see a few changes being made for that game.
I think this result was just a hangover but the best way to clear a hangover is to get back on it!!!!!!!!!
COME ON BORO!!!!!!
Jarkko
I hope the Daily Mirror piece on Leon Best is accurate - I've been banging on on that subject for a few months now.
I'm also concerned about the creative central midfielder we've also needed for ages. Strachs should know what we're after - actually someone like he was when he played.
The Pogi injury, Riggs recovery - (saw pictures of him running with the first team at Crockliffe recently; how far away is he, AV?) - and Wheats' form mean that Kilgallon may need another look at. The Blades current form might help that discussion - though I hope they improve this evening!
I also wonder whether Strachs may feel the need to move on a goalie too?
I think I'm right in saying that the 'emergency loans' window for this year closes on Wednesday so anything else will need to wait for January and whatever is left of the alleged £15m after St. Ledger and - for goodness sake - Folan and whatever needs to be done after GON & Johnno's situations are sorted, one way or another.
If Digard's not good enough or fit enough to get into Boro's midfield currently, then he's never going to be so. I'd like to see him have more games so that we could know. If he's not going to meet the mark we could have a gallic BOGOF in January with him and Jezza.
Mind you, the thing that impressed me most about yesterday evenings' 1-1 between Cardiff and Forest was what decent, experienced managers could do in organising mediocre talent (with a couple of stand out players each) into effective teams and units. I hope to see more emerging evidence of that against Palace next weekend.
An interesting dilemma for the Boro posting fraternity.
Many of us believe that we will beat most of the teams in the league but struggle against top teams then up pop Argyle! No clean sheets all season, only two wins, second bottom of the league.
Make no mistake Gate would have been slaughtered for that performance and result. Arca right wing and Pogo left back. Williams in centre mid and Digard on the bench. Yeates coming off the bench and going left wing and Johnno going right. They were flogging offences under Gate.
Playing people on the wrong flanks is still flawed even if Arca had a decent game. According to Gary Gill they were practising all week with Arca cutting in onto his left foot. Some flaws
1. It compresses play and makes it easier for the defence because the ball is being played in front of them.
2. It takes away space in the box
3. The defenders never have to turn.
4. It can work if our right back bombs on - no joy there then.
No doubt I will be called a serial moaner but that is far from the truth. If those comments are valid when GS is in charge they are no less valid if GS2 is making the decisions.
Fundamentally we are not quite good enough yet, and yet is the operative word. It was true at the start of the season and the only chamges have been a few players out and in.
We are in the phase where we needed to make changes to move the club forward and it will take time to do so. We should still be in the mix for the play offs, automatic promotion is another matter. At the moment.
A few thoughts from my son. He broke his nose at rugby training and went to watch his mates play. At 3.40 he phoned to ask the score and I told him. He asked the team we were playing and he was relatively unimpressed.
He got to us in time to listen to the second half. By the end he was incandescent, cant blame johnno for missing a pen, no team should rely on a left winger to score all their goals, just rubbish, just not good enough, wont even go to Derby v Boro.
His parting shot was a gentle enquiry about what was gained sacking Southgate. Well, words to that effect. Oh, the impatience of youth.
We need some home wins and some goals to boot.
In true Ferguson esque style I will try and deflect the attention from our selves and raise another subject.
Can the referee instruct his ‘assistants’ not to flag for fouls only to give the off sides? Too often there are infringements right in front to the Lino and therefore in the ref’s blind spot but they never flag.
Secondly and AV may be you might be able to help me here, how much do the officials get paid. Am I right in thinking that the ‘assistants’ pick up £300.00 a game plus expenses?
Anyway, I met some Argyle fans before the game and I’m glad they won for them. First away win of the season too, good luck to them.
The future’s bright
The future’s Ginger
**AV writes: I'm not sure what officials get. I'll ask a loud man that used to be one.
I'm with the caller who wants Keith Lamb out. You made light of it, AV, by saying that the fans will then want SG, Mark Page and Roary out. No AV, as soon as Keith Lamb is out, the Boro will have removed a liability from the club who has cost us a money, players and ultimately relegation.
Keith Lamb is useless; how he is still in a job at the Boro I (and us the fans) will probably never know. He must have something good on Gibson. Either that, or he's a Freemason. If it is us "fans" that have made the club sack Southgate, then maybe we should continue to stay away until Lamb is removed. Keith Lamb out!
**AV writes: I made light of the fact that many fans who said they weren't going to game specifically "because of Southgate" have now moved the goalposts.
On the issue of Keith Lamb, whatever the criticisms you or I may have, it is just conjecture (coloured with varying degrees of personal antipathy) that he is 'useless' or has 'cost' the club anything, let alone relegation. It is fact however (and one that it would probably be legally wise to point out) that as chief executive he has overseen the rise of the club from a post liquidation bankrupt mess to a £100m a year turnover and run the club through a golden age of success and big signings.
Just to avoid confusion I think I got my GS's mixed up with my SG's in my post last night (it's been a long weekend)
So until the day arrives when Steve Gibson sells MFC to some rich russian oligarch like Sergei Gorbatovsky then SG2 will remain a figment of my imagination -though imagine how confusing it could get if he sold the club to George Soros and Steven Gerrard became player-manager - Then SG2 would replace GS2 after SG1 sold the club to GS3.
I think whats needed is we stop telling the likes of Johnson hes the next George Best, Wheater hes a future England Defender (Im still spitting my tea out on that one ) and start telling them ALL some home truths.
That's been a major problem here from the top down, to Southgate, to the coaches, to media who have been feeding us this constant hype about how talented these players are and what a future we have with them.
Hype doesnt win games. Talent to some degree yes but organisation, application, consistancy and more than anything (and the greats have it) HATING the idea of losing a match, whether playing in front of one man and his dog,or 80,000 at Wembley. This lot scare me,
The Count is a pantomime villain. Few of us have any dealings with him or have any knowledge of what he does. Luckily, we are in the position to make up what we dont know including his predilection for dark nights and rooms without mirrors.
Gate having moved on leaves Lambie as a potential next target though who knows what battles go on behind the scenes for control of MFC. Who will be next on the hate list could prove an interesting blog piece, a sort of Boro Cluedo to find the root cause of the lost fans.
Lamb with a cloak in a darkened room.
Sue Watson, with a letter in the safety office.
Gibbo with a bank statement in the boardroom.
Bauser with a computer in the press room.
Never mind the machinations in the ticket office and ticketmaster. You pays your money and takes your choice. There is nothing like a good conspiracy, if there isnt one lets make one up.
The loss in crowd numbers is not down to any one person or game. It is the combination of a myriad of factors.
The Keith Lamb vendetta gets more ridiculous every time someone brings it up. No-one here knows what he does on a day-to-day basis and unless they have anything more to add here, I'm sure base most of it on a 15-year old fax machine joke.
Steve Gibson hasn't got where he is today by employing useless people in senior positions. (Add your own Gareth jokes here...)
Life is all about priorities. If you can’t win them all, you must win the one’s you want more than others. We may not be looking forward to trips to the Lane, the Bridge, the Moor. It’s not important; we must fight for the greater good.
What is important is that all energy is now focussed on winning our next home game. This is our most important game for 10 seasons. Nothing short of a victory now is acceptable. We must win on the 21st. We must.
And I leave you with these words of a famous Boro fan leaving the Isaac Wilson on Saturday night.
‘We meet at a Pub noted for knowledge, in a town noted for progress, in a area noted for strength, and we stand in need of all three (points), for we meet in an hour of change and challenge, in a decade of hope and fear, in an age of both knowledge and ignorance. The greater our knowledge increases, the greater our ignorance unfolds. ‘
Victory on the 21st
GS2 will turn results around, but he needs time - sadly something we haven't got if we want promotion back to the PL.
Saturday higlighted the fact that we have been suffering, not only from bad team management, but poor management of the club at a higher level. The decision to sack Southgate should have been taken towards the end of last season. It would have not have saved us, but would have given a new manager time to build something ready for this season.
The decision has come over a quarter of a season and a handful of home defeats too late. We have a lot of ground to make up in this transitional period which may prove too difficult to do.
The current ownership of the club has brought us some great times in the past, but isn't now time to admit that a change is required??
Ok AV, there are several points that could be used against Lamb that point to him being "useless" and having to use certain methods to hide his ineptitude. Here are just a few:
1. The 3 points debacle
2. Having to sling mud (and no doubt remove Century radio's match commentary) at Bernie Slaven for speaking "the truth" as he saw it.
3. The incident that several fans witnessed, when he had the sheer arrogance to say to a group of fans queueing for tickets in rain outside the stadium that "it's your own stupid fault for queueing" when a fan had the temerity to ask him to open the concourse so that they can queue under the shelter, away from the rain.
**AV writes: We all know the crime sheet and how it has snowballed in terrace lore but it is worth pointing out that the 'truth' of the three points saga remains hotly disputed and has never been tested outside the closed confines of football's own far from transparent internal discipline; and also that whatever colourful picture Bernie has painted, Century lost the rights primarily because they made a very low offer for them (and that with both Newcastle and Sunderland in the top flight and so transmitter time over-subscribed that losing Boro may have suited them.)
I don't know about three but it is notoriously difficult to make 'he said, she said' stand up in court. And I've cut four out because it is clearly defamatory.
And before you rush in to say I am "defending him", I'm not (i've crossed swords with him myself many times)... I'm defending the blog from any repercusions. I don't mind discussing anything but on a subject as politically sensitive as this (this will be read by people at the club) it has to be measured, objective and defensible.
Well I was one of those returning fans who lives 100 miles away but thought it might be a good time to make the effort, come and show a bit of support for the new man, thought we were meant to be playing against a poor team who had a shocking away record, thought that the new boss may generate a reaction from the players etc, and even more foolishly dragged 3 friends/ relatives with me, one all the way from Hungary! Needless to say I was not Mr Popular by the end of the day...
And yes, we even had our daft pound bets on as we were feeling a little confident ranging from 3-2 to 3-1 and 4-0. We all thought the concourse would maybe have been busier with more fans turning up, but apparently the rest of the town (rightly) didn't share our optimism.
The team was laid out in a confusing way from the start, and from my initial joking comments to my friends before the match were something along the lines of "I'll support Strachan, as long as he doesn't play Arca in midfield. If he picks Arca, I'll know that he's got no idea and I'll be calling for his head!" I had no idea I was a prophet...
We were sat just behind GS2 and had a good chance to see his positioning of Arca, 1st half, and saw him on a couple of occasions tell him to push inside, leaving the wing completely empty, with Hoyte not bothering to exploit the space at all.
When Arca did get the ball 1st half he did nothing but turn inside and didn't once find a forward pass 1st half, although that may have as much to do with the lack of movement in the rest of midfield.
Emnes was dreadful and rightly replaced, being muscled out of everything, and the pace we had heard about was completely lacking. What surprised me most was who was allowed to go forwards and who wasn't - St Ledger made two big Ferdinand style runs forwards, only to get a nosebleed in the opponents box and be too shy to shoot, and our centre half was twice our most forward player on the pitch (from open play, not corners).
Williams and ONeill were glued to the half way line and refused to join in any attacks - what happened to the Gary ONeill that's the "best midfielder in the Championship"? he didn't turn up.
There was just so little forward play, no one with a splitting diagonal ball or any sort of telling forward passing. Lack of ideas summed it up well enough but it could easily have been lack of talent. I don't know whether the pair of them sitting back was tactics or poor decision making / laziness on the central midfields part, but despite sitting back it was easily and frequently caught out by every counter attack.
Johnson was beating his men as usual and was one of the few worth watching but lacked end product on the day and on this evidence he would be crazy not to leave in January. Wheater was dreadful, his much smaller man beat him for pace and pushed him off the ball easily for the goal, and he looked generally disorganised on their many counterattacks, but then he has been poor for a long time now. Poggi's injury was probably a godsend for Wheater and may be the only thing keeping him in the team.
On this evidence we need some round-pegging, some ideas, a good bit of the hairdryer treatment, and desperately need a creative right midfielder.
How would this compare to your assessment AV?
**AV writes: It sounds similar, except I thought Arca had a good game. These thing are always measured retrospectively though: if Emnes had stuck that sitter in, or Bent's header was on target, or Johnno puts the penalty away then the GS2 shuffle is a tactical genius lightyears ahead of Southgate.
Well, it was Typical Boro but realistically we shouldn't have expected much more. GS2 has only been in the job a couple of days and had never seen his team in combat. Selection was always going to guided by the Old Brooms and I was pleased to see he was decisive enough to bring Bent on at half time. That will be a clear message to Emnes and other under-performers that they will have to shape up and quickly.
There were other positives as well. Players were prepared to get forward and support the strikers, Arca looked keen to impress even though out of position. When Argyle scored heads didn't droop further and there was still a clear will to win. On another day, with another ref. We might have (undeservedly) sneaked all three points. And Brad Jones could even have been Man of The Match.
The biggest positive is that Strachan has had a chance to see his team and, boy, did they reveal their weaknesses. Lack of strength, experience, guile, confidence to hold the ball etc. Now, he'll know there's a lot to do and that away form has papered over the cracks of a thin and inexperienced squad.
I'd disagree (for once) with John Powls who suggests that we should have another look at Kilgallon. What this team is crying out for is a couple of wise old pros and the injury to Pogi will be a great chance to bring one in.
I feel very sorry for David Wheater at the moment. He's desperate to succeed as player and captain but it's too much too young and his confidence is shot. Bring in an older partner like Chris Morgan , make O'Neil skipper and see him blossom again. Alternatively, do nothing and his confidence and value will continue to erode.
I also felt sorry for myself, too. Another 650 mile round trip and the pleasure of driving home in Sunday's monsoon. Oh, the joys of being a Boro fan.
I agree with Neil in Canada we can analyse to death where we are at and why and be no further forward.
Saturday's result was a big disapointment because there was a wave of optimism following the appointment of GS2 which was quickly disapated by another poor home performance. I had expected a win given Plymouth's position and the fact that a team often raises its collective performance when a new manager is appointed. But that was probably a rose tinted view.
Boro are a decent team, the problems are simple a lack of confidence at home and a lack of strikers who can score. There are a wholoe host of other elements which could be improved as there always is with any team, but this team we have is capable of challenging for promotion, the question is can the changes that GS2 needs to make be implemented in time for a top two place to be achieved or at least a top six place?
I think it is possible, once Strachan has had a few weeks to stamp his mark on the team then there is nothing to suggest we cant go on a winning run which will put us right back in the mix.
As with any Boro manager GS2 has my full support, I think he is the right man for the job, experienced, reasonably sucessful, driven and as a bonus entertaining in his own right. Despite Saturday's result there is every reason to be optimistic!
AV - I posted twice over the weekend from my home e-mail address and neither have appeared are you censoring my posts or do I have a technical fault?
**AV writes: No faults have been reported to me by the Geekstapo.
Why not move Willaims to RB, both MacMahon and Hoyte struggle to pass a ball to a Boro player. Digard can take Williams place in CM
C'Mon Boro!
The same problems persist and will continue to do so until GS2 has got to grips with the squad. The spine of the team is still weak. Defensively we are timid, no creativity in midfield and upfront we are toothless. This has been a constant for the last 3.5 years. GS2 needs some time to sort that out.
We will however be fortunate to reach the play-offs with anymore games like that home or away.
John Bowman
I'd agree on a 'wise old head' for centre back rather than Kilgallon except I can't think of one that is comfortable (like Kilgallon is alongside Morgan) playing on the left of the two.
We plainly have at least two (Wheats and Ledge) and maybe three (Riggs) that aren't comfortable playing anywhere other than on the right of the two and if played together just get in eachothers space.
Strachs played Wheats and Ledge in each of the two different slots in the two halves - and neither arrangement worked effectively. That's why I was puzzled that he didn't go with Pogi on the left of the two and rest the one most out of form - Wheats - with Jon Grounds at left back.
sick as a parrot - I agree on Rhys Williams to right back. I've seen him play there both for Boro and Burnley. It's his best position and, for me, he's the best right back at the club. I'd put McMahon ahead of Hoyte too.
Williams has done a useful job filling in as a holding midfield player but he has his limitations there as well as his strengths. We know from the strengths, as well as what he's shown at full back, that he does pass well and can be as big a threat attacking as he can be solid in defence. He offers additional height and heading ability to the back line as well.
As I said above - and elsewhere - if Digard, who should be the natural to slot in alongside GON, isn't up to it then move him on and get someone who is.
The Keith Lamb debate is an interesting one and for me the intruiging part is the way that with the departure of Southgate some fans seem to have a need to demand another 'sacrifice' and the chief exec. is a soft target.
It is almost impossible for us the fans to evaluate how good he is as we aren't privvy to the necessary information. Although AV's summary of the fact Lamb has overseen the club's development from one where a few players trained together in the local park and played in a crumbling stadium to a club who has employed the Brazilian player of the year, plays in a state of the art stadium and has a training facility and academy that are the envy of most his hard to dispute. What else do we expect of him, to lace on his boots and score 30 a season?
Surely Lamb is the focal point of fans frustration and anger, which maybe in itself is a useful role? In other words the panto villan Ian Gill refers to.
No doubt Lamb has made mistakes, he must have we all do. For example if its true that Alves was signed against GS1's better judgment then that would imply Lamb cocked up, but making mistakes doesn't make him a bad chief exec. He has to be judged on results and what Boro have achieved while he has been in charge is impressive and streets ahead of ANYTHING we have achieved in the previous 100 years +.
Maybe, if he has a weakness it is that his PR is poor, that is frustrating for us the fans but it doesn't make him poor at his job.
AV, do you have any idea on the amount GS2 is to be paid during his contract, and what was GS1's compensation package?
**AV writes: No. I don't know any figures. I heard a whisper that Southgate was on a four year deal with the fifth optional on both sides so he will just be paid up to the end of this one (the fourth) but I imagine that is still not far from £1m.
My friends say I blame Gareth Southgate for too much, I disagree.
But surely his Euro 96 failure was directly related to Adam Johnson's penalty miss and therefore he is to blame for us not getting a point against Plymouth? No? Anyone?
*sheepishly ducks head and walks off*
The same old problems beat away at the heart of this current Boro team, but you really couldn't expect GS2 to wave a magic wand and put it all right so soon. In fact, as suggested by fellow bloggers, it may be ablessing in disguise for him to see the problems play out in front of him, in a not so full Riverside.
I thought Arca actually played pretty well too, and Bent is going to be an asset. Although I was disappointed, I am not too down hearted. I do believe GS2 will get it right, and I have more faith in us having a shot at promotion now than I did with GS1.
And one other thing, there are still 31 games to go! We have a fair chance, we really do. Come on Boro!!
I hope it's NOT true about 15million to spend at Christmas. It would be a waste to not wait until the summer when we can attract a better quality of player. Scott Brown, Robbie Keane and a top keeper is what we need.
**AV writes: I think it is a figure plucked out of the air by a tabloid hack. I would be staggered if there was anywhere near that kind of that money available.
**AV writes: I'm not sure what officials get. I'll ask a loud man that used to be one.
Jeff Winter or former Century presenter Dave Roberts? That'll be Jeff then. I think I heard on talk sport they're on around £86k.
Totally agree with everything that "Mick said:" Also wasn't Lamb the sticking point when we were trying to sign Hignett from Crewe?
Following the sentiments of others...... LAMB OUT!!
Way back in July I said:
"I think our most urgent requirement is for a Captain, a leader on the pitch. At the minute we have no leadereship on the park (or off it for that matter). Chris Morgan is who I want to see yelling instructions at our sensitive prima donnas. July 14, 2009 12:58 PM "
Now if I could spot that way back then what were all our Coaching, Scouting, Management and Executive staff playing at? Bear in mind this was before the season and Huth got going! I'm sorry but for me there is still an almighty stink around the Riverside and whilst he may have been one of the perpetrators of our fall from grace, Gareth Scapegoat was and is not alone to blame for the current plight of our Club.
GS2 will not be able to turn the ship around on his own especially when he is surrounded by the levels of "expertise" we have witnessed to date. The Club needs a Rank and File clear out and not just on the pitch.
If we had cleared all the so called Scouting staff out to pay Huth's wages it would have been worth it because lets face it what nuggets or little gems have they unearthed..... (tumbleweed blows across the screen)........ exactly, absolutely nothing, either lightweights or permacrocks. And all this was and still is being presided by the individuals who told us one story on their favourite pet "Glee club" radio station whilst being either unable or unwilling to deliver any of the spin.
The pockets of booing on Saturday was not directed at the players (whats the point ,we all know thats the best we can expect from them) it was directed at much higher up the West Stand than the players tunnel.
As I said a few weeks back come Christmas it won't be Christmas carols being sung but chants of "Sack the Board".
Priority
Get the home form right - keep the away form up and we'll be UP and the end of the season!
FACT!
I've wanted Lamby's head for a long time and have been closing in on Gibbo too but what "Nigel" has put forward is interesting and is making me think again!
Gibbo and Lamby are clever guys and their plan to bring in Strachan to manage his first game against Plymouth certainly back fired on them!
They and us supporters - defo. - expected a winning start for the new manager with all the initial hype that would have "snowballed" on from the appointment of the new guy in charge for team affairs had we won!
Message to SG and Lamby - "nice try BUT reality is home form is atrocious and until this is put right the club is going no where!"
Some loan players I think could help us at this level,they would bring experience and leadership, McCann (Bolton), Boetang (Hull), Baird, Gera (Fulham), Gabbidon, Quashie, (W.Ham), Koumas (Wigan), Diop,(Pompey)
Agree that that loss might have a better effect on us in the long run rather than crack filling as GS2 got it how it is instead of a game where they were out to impress and would have gone back to normal after a couple of games.
Also agree about Williams moving back to his best position now that Digard is fit. Something I would definatly have tried sometime during the game on Sat.
Well them up the road won last night making the gap from the top two bigger.
Also report in the sun AJ a done deal for Sunderland in January at £3m not enough by a long way.
I think we are now facing a critical few weeks in our attempt to regain our PL status. Gary O'Neils target of 23 points from ten games to keep us in touch is already no longer possible and there are still 5 games to go.
Newcastle are now six points ahead with WBA, four points better off in second, which has only highlighted the cost of throwing away five winnable points in our last two games.
We all may be expecting better things from Strachan but will the reality of installing a new manager be just as likely to cause disruption as well as improvement? We can't really afford to let our away form slip as GS2 searches for a magic formula.
Given how precarious Southgate's grip on his job was and how it was going to be inevitable that a run of bad results would at somepoint arise, it's still hard to understand why Gibson didn't bite the bullet in the summer and allow a new man to prepare properly for a promotion campaign - perhaps he needed a compliant Southgate to whittle the squad down to the bare essentials. That's why it would be almost a crime if suddenly £15m was made available.
Werdermouth
It would be extremely embarassing for Gibbo to find £15m down the back of the sofa.
It would throw a grave shadow over his stewardship of the club.
Gate would be shown to have been treated despicably by keeping a war chest back whilst he struggled with a cost constrained squad. The fans would feel even more duped and blind faith would turn into just blind.
I dont think that amount of money is there. We think we know that St Ledger is a peremanent deal which would acount for a few million. Any further money may be realised from the sale of assets and I dont mean naming rights on the underpasses. The Johnno to Sunderland story has a nasty ring of truth about it.
Onto the Redcar Rock. He is not the only centre back to be going through a sticky patch. Ferdinand and Vidic dont look as assured as before. Even Jamie Carragher has been sent off for one of his routine rugby challenges. Quite astonishing, I though it more likely for us to get to a European final than for our serial scouser mud wrestler being penalised. Wheats will just have to work his way through it.
Finally, go to the BBC sport site for an article on Mendi.
I don't think dropping/resting Wheater is necessarily the way to improving our defensive record - what we do need to do is have a settled back line, something we haven't managed for about two years at least now - Wheater himself mentioned this on Tees the other day.
This season, before the end of October, we'd started with four left-backs (plus Hoyte came on there in one game) which is madness. We've also had two right-backs, and some of us want to see a third different player there. In central defence, we've had four. Plus two goalkeepers.
What GS2 should do is pick what he thinks is his best back four and tell them their place is guaranteed for a few games at least and lets try and acheive some consistency in that area.
Boro Phil
We have been talking of the spine of the team for some time. Your figures show the unsettled nature of the defence. The same truism goes for the rest of the team.
Chelsea look so much better with Essien and Lampard in midfield and Drogba up front to complement Cech and and Terry. How can you expect team work when you dont have a settled team.
We will have to be careful because I feel an outbreak of agreement coming on!
Can we get Gaizka back? He is living in Yarm and in good shape I am told? Any chance? There is a story about him at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8323143.stm
Up The boro!
Just carrying on the Lamb/Gibson thread a little further. My thought is that we have an excellent chairman and I think the Chief Exec. is probably decent to, although I like many others may not like him much.
However the story that Alves was signed because Lamb/Gibbo wanted him if true rings a big alarm bell. His signing was clearly (in hindsight) a big mistake, although GS1 clearly didn't need hindsight. It just goes to prove that managers of football clubs must be allowed to manage without interference from those at the club who have limited knowledge of football.
I'm certain now though that mistake will not be repeated, I cannot imagine that GS2 would say 'okay Steve lets sign him if you want to.' It just isn't going to happen and rightly so, that of course is one of the benefits of employing an experienced manager who knows his own mind and has a reputation which is respected.
In time GS1 will have that experience and respect but it will be to another clubs benefit.
Mendieta was never the same player after he had his hair cut short and seems to have lived off one good performance against Man Utd ever since - it's three years since he last played competitively so don't think a return is credible.
Another point about Boro's promotion attempt - I noticed that we currently lie 18th in the form table with eight points from our last eight games.
Finally, good to see Wayne Rooney choose a good german name for his son in Kai (albeit with his own tagged on the end)
Poor old Lamby. He’s coming in for a lot of stick, most of it hearsay and conjecture. Those of us that know KL1 only have good things to say about him. Take this morning for instance. I was taking my morning constitutional through the Eston hills, when I looked up to see a shadowy figure at the top of the escarpment.
As I approached I could see KL1 was rehearsing a rousing, morale boosting song. I was put in mind of another such incident.
And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying:
‘We all follow the Boro,
Over land and sea,
We hate (name of an east midlands club that plays in red)
And Leicester City!’
Victory on the 21st
why do we have the same coaches in place, who were in place for the southgate regime? They have proved them selves as useless over the past 18 months.
I would suggest that it would be easier to have a fresh start and easier for Strachan to impose a new regime on the players if Cooper and Agnew were not still there. Agnew + Coops will be/are the same coaches they were last week, last month, last year. New coaches with no favourites, no bias, no connection to Gentleman Gareth would have had a much better effect on the squad.
Is this why we didn't have the usually gauranteed first game in charge win for our new manager?
i also picked up in WGS first press conference that he was kinda forced to keep agnew + coops - when asked about them he seemed to mumble something about continuity - i got the feeling steve gibson was very much behind that statement - and that WGS was nt exactly happy with it
Werdermouth
I too think Mendi should be left living happily in Yarm. The nasty knee injury did him no favours but the thing that tends to be overlooked is the fact his best games for Boro were in a midfield five. Even his five star game against ManU had Yak dropped back left side to make a middle five.
Towards the latter days he had lost his pace, I remember seeing him against Blackburn and the game was passing him by. The cup winning team had Job up front on his own with TLF, Bolo, Boat and Doriva alongside the mercurial Spaniard.
Three or four years ago he could sit and play the gridiron quarterback role where all he had to do was make a pass but only in a five. In a four man midfield, in the rough and tumble of the English leagues he was overun.
We should remember his skills and not try and bring him back. I do not know what happened behind the scenes but like his football it is in the past.
Nigel comment on Lamb.
"He has to be judged on results and what Boro have achieved while he has been in charge is impressive and streets ahead of ANYTHING we have achieved in the previous 100 years +".
OK, but what has ne done lately.
Ian,
I've been detecting a few worrying signs of us agreeing recently and am slightly disturbed. I think I will look to throw in a few deliberately contrasting views just to settle things down again.
The season so far can summed up in the words in the title of the song – “Too much, too little, too late”!!
Too much gap growing between ourselves and the automatic promotion places to think we have a chance of catching them.
Too little points won at home - (look where we would be if we hadn’t lost 4 home games)
Too late to appoint a new manager – should have been done before the season began.
I didn't get the impression that GS2 was forced to keep Cooper/Agnew at all, in fact I heard him stress the need for some sort of continuity. I don't think for one second that he would have come here if he had been forced against his will to accept people he didn't want.
Let's stop trying to look for new scapegoats and get on with looking forward.
I think that Mendieta played his last game for the Boro when a clause in his contract became due which required another multi-million pound payment to Lazio and/or Mendi himself. It was cheaper for the club to stop playing him and get rid of him, but Mendi did not oblige and decided to run down his contract instead.
Any verification on this AV?
**AV writes: He signed on a free transfer. The intricacies of exactly how relationships off the pitch broke down are shrouded in mists of claim and counter claim but appear to centre on Boro offering him to clubs he did not want to join.
Just watched NU v Sheffield, a few takes from it:
NU won by a jammy deflection direct from a foul on a Sheffield defender, who in truth should be shot for the way he pansied the ball about in his own p/area.
Colocinni has to be the dirtiest player I've seen in any league for years, not hard just crude - kicks to backs of legs, foot stamping etc. How the ref didn't see them is beyond me.
TV Commentator remarked that the previous last time Sheff U went down from (old) Div 1, it took them 12 seasons to get back up.
Didn't they hold us to a draw first match?
Conclusion: NU being top with a poor team sums up that skill is short-on in the Championship
John, Aus
I’ll lay off the historical speeches for now. Rest assured there’s much more to come so I hope you are enjoying them.
But much has been made about the away support. So I’ll throw in some stats. So far this season we have had more followers away from home than in the 91/92 promotion season in its entirety.
We are only two thousand short of the total in the promotion season of 97. The record season total for Boro away fans is just over 35,000. And by my maths we are just over 15,000 already.
With less games on TV, Saturday 3 o’clock kick offs, more fixtures and hopefully a promotion charge. This season should see us set all records for the away fans.
So whilst we may have hit rock bottom at home there is some good news out there.
A little teaser for you. What historically important event occured on the 15th December 1973??
Victory on the 21st
**AV writes: Where are those stats from? Is there some kind of database. It is only in recent years that declaring and recording away fan numbers has been the norm. In 1991/92 for instance I went to a lot of away games and almost every time I just turned up and paid on the gate to stand and counting methods were often, shall we say generously, less than precise.
WakoRed - What has Lamb done recently? I'm not here to defend him, but I'm sure he would argue that selling an injured player for £10m to Villa was good business. He may even argue that selling a cr*p striker to some middle east outfit for £7m was good business too.
Overall I guess he would argue that he has played his part in securing the future stability of the club and ensuring it is financially sound, not very exciting for us fans but delivering excitement is not the chief exec's remit I would guess!!
John Gibson
I think your conclusion re The Skunks are right.
I don't think that there are any teams in The Championship with real quality throughout - or they wouldn't be in The Championship.
The reason the league is competitive is that though the standards are poor, they're uniformly poor so sides are much of a muchness and anyone can beat anyone, any given Saturday.
But there are some teams that use what they've got more effectively than most so the quality they do have shines through and the rest is well drilled and organised.
That's good news for Boro (or indeed for a number of sides around the top ten currently) because getting that combination of a hit of quality with a lot of organisation and gallons of perspiration can get you a long way.
If you can develop just a bit of postive consistency (including settled team selection Ian & BoroPhil) and momentum around that, you can have this division.
And that shouldn't be beyond Strachs and the current Boro squad augmented by three or four affordable keys players through the spine of the team - and a right winger. I look forward to seeing this emerge in the coming weeks.
Cooper talking about sitting down with Wheater, and having a nice friendly chat, proves he doesn't have it in him to be a coach. What Wheater needs, is the captaincy taking off him, and a rocket shoving up his bottom!
I believe 87 is the devil number according to Aussies. Whatever they think it is unlucky so hopfully this post wil bring us luck by taking us off the accursed number.
Excellent week for GS2. After only five days at club many of Boro's silly mistakes revealed in one match.Today, if you can believe in rumours,a deal has been done with Sunderland for Adam Johnson. Did GS2 know anything about this? or is it all Mr Lamb's doing?
Anyway I for one think the new manager knows how to look after himself and hope in doing so he is not too much of a gentleman.
Look at the playing credentials of the current coaching staff at MFC. Now tell me Gaizka Mendieta doesn't have something to offer.
McMahon needs to be in the team. He is a 'positive' player who accepts responsibility when the going gets tough. He is physically and mentally fearless. He will settle Wheater and enable him to regain his form and confidence. Gordon does not need to get the likes of Lee Naylor on loan, Tony Mac is better.
New goalkeeper needed now ignore MoM award.
I'm going to the game at the weekend and looking forward to the contest between Warnock and our fella. I can't stand the Yorkshire twit. If you see someone run on and give the charming Neil a clout with a frying pan (Vic & Bob style) it'll be me. £25 on Lerory to score first should cover costs.
O'Neill has lost only once on Teesside in his career as player or manager, in December 1973 when Boro triumphed over Nottingham Forest.
Oh but why was that historic?
Ernie, it was a bit irresponsible to say that Wheater needs "the captaincy taking off him, and a rocket shoving up his bottom" - you should have added that Coops should then move to a safe distance, and never return to a firework that hasn't gone off.
From BBC gossip column:
Fulham manager Roy Hodgson has joined Real Madrid and Everton in the chase for Middlesbrough winger Adam Johnson - and could start the bidding war with a £3m offer.
Grove Hill wallah:
Mendi was struggling to keep up in the league three years ago. He couldnt cope in a four man midfield then. It will be even harder now.
Why not bring back John Hickton up front, Eric MacMordie in midfield and David Chadwick on the right wing?
Ian, I think the noises coming out of Boro are saying Johnson is staying until summer and then they hope to 'persuade' him to sign a new deal if we are then back in the PL.
Though, you can never rule out the fact that whatever Boro are saying in public is just to hike up the price in January to an ever-growing list of clubs desperate to sign the 'missing link'.
Boro must realise that they are never going to be able to (a) Match the wages offered by all interested clubs and (b) offer a chance to play in Europe (c) the prospect of playing in a team that has 'top' players who will give Jonhnson a bit more space to play in.
Damm it looks like I missed the 100 posts mark.
AV you don't seem to be putting up so many subjects these days. In fact the whole media circus has gone fairly quiet as far as the boro is concerned. I suppose that is the reality in the lower leagues.
**AV writes: Oct 20, Oct 21, Oct 24, Oct 26, Oct 29, Oct 31, live match blog, match report, Monday feature, Tuesday column, Weds feature... what more do you want? Blood?
Going back to John and BoroPhils point about stability I will refer back again to Lee Dixons comments some time ago about when a team is having problems.
He talked about pairs of players making it their personal responsibility to sort themselves out no matter what was happening elsewhere in the team. Not be independent but make sure they do their jobs, covering each other, making sure they are not caught out.
Centre back pairings working together, central midfield, right side, left side, attack, making sure they do their jobs to the best of their ability.
From what he said it should spread through the team. They should also be working in the team structure as part of training to blend the partnerships.
We have had few settled partnerships and so the spine of the team has not developed. When things dont go well we have nothing to fall back on.
Palace up next followed by a two week break so it is another chance for GS2 to work on the squad. Just concerned that we may be 9th or 10th after the weekend, we could do with a good result to take into the break.
What is it with Boro fans wanting to bring back old players who were moved on because they were past it.... Mendieta, Boateng, Viduka. And it must be that time of the year when one of the Disciples of St Juninho calls for the little fella to return to add a bit of quality to midfield.
AV, was your reply to Allan in Bahrain the standard reply you use if Keith Lamb complains to the Gazette?
By-the-way nice to chalk up another ton, but do the writers on the Gazette have an equivalent 'trophy' to a century post that you aim for?
**AV Writes: Very good. No, we hacks tend to measure our status by the number of solictors letters we can pin up on the newsroom noticeboard. It is a kind of "show us your medals" thing.
John Gibson said: "Just watched NU v Sheffield, a few takes from it: NU won by a jammy deflection direct from a foul on a Sheffield defender..... Conclusion: NU being top with a poor team sums up that skill is short-on in the Championship. . . blah blah
usual from boro fans!"
What about the passion and commitment? The 'togetherness' shown by NUFC? It takes more than skill to get out of this fizzy pop league! Being 'top' is a marvellous achievement by the Newcastle players given the circumstances. You at Boro had it made with the 'best' acadamy' the 'best' chairman, stability, blah blah.
It usually takes two points a game to be certain of automatic promotion... eg win at home three points, draw away one.... two games, four points. With the games left that leaves Newcastle on course.
Middlesbrough on the other hand need 2.2 points a game. Work that out!! You have to win ALL your home games from now to the end of the season and somehow gain more than a draw from your remaining away fixtures!!! Judging by your away form that may be possible... but at home mmmmm?
Ian re Mendieta, I meant in a coaching capacity.
AV, the stats are from a thoroughly reliable source. However my interpretation of them is another matter. Considering my former employment as economist at Enron and the Halifax bank I think we should just ignore these stats and move on.
Any news from Mr Winter re linesman not being allowed to make decisions re fouls and their pay? (I am just like Alex Fergusson)
Congrats to Allan in Bahrain for the correct answer. The last time we beat the unmentionables on Teesside. A signed copy of ‘Economics: A history of Misunderestimation’, Foreword by Mike Ashley is on its way to you.
Victory on the 21st
**AV writes: No,haven't seen Teesside's best loved rentaquote ref so don't know about pay but their giving decisions from the touchlines usually comes down to specific pre-match instructions from the referee.
Grove Hill Wallah
Good shout, I believe he did a lot with the kids when he was not a non person though at this distance I may have got that wrong.
Here is a little quiz about becoming a bit of legend at Boro.
Loved by the fans
Ability by the bucketload
Moved on from the club
Become adopted Teessiders.
What is the common factor?
Ian Gill - I have to disagree with your suggestion we bring back MacMordie, surely the answer is bring back Souness? A hard man with confidence to spare? He'd be perfect in the middle of the park!!
AV - We dont want blood, but perhaps you could lace up your boots and score a couple for us on Saturday? How you'd manage that laptop in hand I'm not sure, but where there is a will.....
Ernie - I like your style, the approach for Coops with Wheater, could you just let me know which FA coaching badge that bit of man management comes from??!
Re Johnson - selling him for £3m in Janaury would make no sense, to have any chance of being promoted we'll need him until May, when if we are promoted he will have contributed in a major way to Boro being back in the land of plenty to the tune of far more than £3m.
My instinct is he'll go in the Summer even if we are promoted, he isn't local enough to be a Boro 'supporter.' In fact he's a sunderland boy isn't he? I also suspect he'd have a good chance of a move to a UEFA cup team, enjoy him while you can and hope he is this seasons Paul Merson.
I see that the FA has dismissed the appeal of the red card given to Liverpool’s Philippe Degen. What I didn’t see was the FA branding the appeal ‘frivolous’ and wasting their time. Why wasn’t he given an extra suspension for the temerity of appealing? It couldn’t be because he plays for one of the country’s biggest clubs. That’s not how our great game works. This is the FA we are talking about, a paragon of virtue.
Sooner the bigger clubs bog off to their Euro super heaven the better.
Victory on the 21st
Nigel, be happy to.
Wheater is a young player who would benefit, as would the rest of the team, from some authority being shown by management.
Southgate has mollycoddled the squad, and accepted a lowering of standards. Mistakes have been repeated time and again because of this attitude. If a good rollocking doesn't work, players need to be dropped. They cannot go on being allowed to think that repeated mistakes are acceptable.
Wheater is too young for the responsibility of captain, and needs to put his own game in order before worrying about the rest of the team.
Smogonthetyne.
I love your rallying Victory on the 21st war cry. I hope its more Nelson than Kitchener.
On the subject of ex players I'd like Robbie Mustoe and Frank Quedrue, our last decent LB.
Victory on the 21st, and indeed the 7th, good sirs.
With regards to referees and their assistants (linesmen) being able to make decisions - I've always thought it would be a good idea for the officals to operate as a team for at least half a season. So the same three men are working each fixture together and will know each others game and personalities.
I'm believe that just like people all referees are different and some will want more help than others or assistance with only certain key decisions. The FA should experiment with a few teams of officials going around the country and see if they perform better.
AV - See what Jeff say's when you ask him about their wages?
And before you can say "there's been an own goal at the sportsdirect.com @ St James' Park Stadium" the opposition has now gone two up.
Nigel – Ok I’ll grant you that Lamby has overseen the rise of the club from a post liquidation bankrupt mess to a £100m a year turnover and run the club through a golden age of success and big signings.
OK, so he’s been responsible for employing the Brazilian player of the year, providing the club with a state of the art stadium to play in and yes there’s the training facility and the academy that are the envy of most of Europe is hard to dispute.
And OK, selling an injured player for £10m to Villa was good business. He may even argue that selling a cr*p striker to some middle east outfit for £7m (Egyptian £?) was good business too. Ok, there is his part in securing the future stability of the club and ensuring it is financially sound
But what has he actually done for Boro.
**AV writes: Well there is the aquaducts...
WakoRed - Are you Wako or Lamb in disguise!?
Wako - "Lamby has overseen the rise of the club" Sorry I thought that was Gibson and the use of "Lamby" are you his friend?
Wako - "responsible for employing the Brazilian player of the year" Responsible? The little fella said himself the reason why he signed for Boro was because we made the effort to go to Brazil. Was it Lambs, Gibsons, or even Robsons idea? If you know for certain it was Lambs.... I'll give you that one
Wako - Ground, training facility, and academy. I personally wouldn't put it down to one man but if I had to it would be Gibson and not Lamby!!
Wako - "Selling an injured player for £10m to Villa" Could of possibly got more for him earlier in the season from Spurs and bought a couple of forwards plus Johnson was on the bench.
Wako - "Selling a cr*p striker to some middle east outfit for £7m" Were do you get this figure from?
Some might say signing Alves and the three points were highlights too, some might say........... and some might say we will find a brighter day!
You can spin him to look good or bad!
**AV writes: Yes, but apart from medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health....
I appreciate your support Stockport Wiggy. The Victory on the 21st campaign is now really starting to gather pace. Today alone has seen membership double.
Gutted makes a good point about having a team of officials. You usually see the same three or four linesman during a season at home. This probably due to their geographic mobility and only the refs can get shunted to any ground. Simple idea’s usually give the best results.
Victory on the 21st
AV
Pedantry ill becomes me but as you refuse to help me towards the 100 or 200 landmarks I advise that your post should be amended to 'there are the aqueducts' or 'there is the aqueduct'.
I think. God I am taking a risk!
**AV writes: Aquaducti? Whatever. Romanes eunt domus.
Say what you like about Mr. Lamb but I for one wouldn't buy a used chariot off him!
AV
No doubt you will start splitting hairs over whether it is the Juninho Peoples Front or the the Peoples Front of Juninho.
People called Lambvistas, they go the house !!
Now what case should that be....?
**AV writes: .... er.... third person plural? ...... imperative?
Some of us on here are working so hard at the moment that we can't hang around the penalty area looking for further 100's or 200's (despite recent glorious success!).
Some of us on here have spent our lives surveying the Pont du Gard. Acqueducts? A good place from which to dive into the river on a hot summer's day!
And as for Lamby? I have been tonight in the "Manky Meerkat's Arms" (a very short pub) and heard some monstrously offensive guesses as to why our Chief Executive is still in a job. I take a more charitable view.
On the one hand it is a good idea for the "Top Man" to keep in position an unpopular number two - a buffer between oneself and the masses. There is always the option then, if things get really sticky, to jettison number two, but if you can keep hold of him until reaching an "in extremis position", the life of number one can be extended. On the other hand, he might be doing a good job, given the hand dealt to him.
None of us on this side of the blog (exception granted to AV) really know what is going on at the club. We know what is released for public consumption. We might hear a few rumours, but we don't know whether to believe them. He might be doing good, unsung, work in the background, or otherwise why would the hard-nosed businessman that is SG keep him on? So maybe the "dark one" is actually doing OK, even if he is rarely seen in the daylight and has a predilection for blood.
All we know for a fact is the results of the games on the pitch. And they are OK but could be rather better. In fact they must get better if we are to escape upwards from this division.
Incidentally, Vic, if you need some kudos in the office, I could speak to a few chaps, and you could be the recipient of more solicitors letters than you could paper a wall with. Or maybe a chat with Ian Hislop would do the trick? Alternatively, you could write a detailed piece on "KL - his place in our downfall" (only joking KL - love you really, honest. We want this to remain a writ free zone).
Tomorrow's plan is to read Tallentire's piece in the Gazette that I didn't get round to on Wednesday. Is it worth reading at breakfast, Vic?
**AV writes: Writs, we got 'em. Actually, I haven't had one for a while. One of mine coined a new phrase for a specific sum of money awarded in court. Phil's piece is a detailed rebuttal of Southgate's media mitigation last week.
Forever Dormo
There must be some tongue in cheek after all your lurking for the records. It is a bit like the Scouse mud wrestler being cast as victim after the Fulham match following a career of dragging down forwards with impunity
As for the Count, he certainly not the messiah nor is he evil. One suspects he plays the heavy to Sir Gibbos benign dictatorship so more of a very naughty boy really.
hot off the press, sponsorship a done deal.. next season it is to be called
AuntBessiesYorkshirePuddings@St James Park
C'mon Boro!
**AV writes: Greggs_steak_bake_arena@SJP
AV
I take it Phil's piece is in the paper paper.
If so I cannot read it, TS based newsagents still refuse to deliver to DE postcodes. Some nonesense about getting the delivery kids back in time for bed.
**AV writes: Yes, damn those barmy EU labour laws!
AV
Can we blame the Romans for the EU?
Gutted! - I may be mad but I'm definitley not 'Wako'. Although I have been impersonated once a twice on here it's not a stunt I would pull!
While the re-naming of stadiums is in vogue perhaps The Riverside could become 'Parmo Park'?
Sevaral papers have informed the BBC that Birmingham and Middlesbrough will go head-to-head in a battle to sign Hamilton's James McArthur and have already made inquiries about the midfielder.
Born on 07/10/87 in Glasgow, McArthur is a gritty centre field performer who made his Accies debut against Ross County in January 2005. Although still only 21, James has made over 100 appearances for Accies in the heart of midfield.
James was been nominated for the PFA Scotland Young Player of the Year for 2008/9, but lost out to teammate James McCarthy. With skipper Alex Neil being ruled out through injury, James will captain the side until he returns.
James was called up to Scotland's under-21 squad in February 2008.
Is his destined for us, AV? We need a RIGHT winger, too! UTB
Got to admire GS2's style.
Southgate used to talk about potential signings for weeks until either he lost his man or we got the rubbish no one else wanted. Strachan just goes out and signs Osborne (and Bent)! Impressed.
John Bowman
Yup, know what you mean. Although word does have it that Bent was on the rebound, having been knocked back from Phillips by Brum - but good opportunism, nonetheless.
Osbourne was with Phillips on Strach's 'little list' that he was clutching on day one, of course.
Strachs has said of Osbourne, “He's not a flair player, he's what I would call a continuity player, but he will also give us strength, height and get about the pitch. He will bring us more strength in the midfield area where we are definitely short on numbers.”
That sounds to me, just the sort of thing that Boro have needed to knit the various elements of the team together and keep them ticking. I’d partner him with Digard in a Carrick type holding role to lock up the centre of midfield with the running of GON and the flair Johnno able to hold their width and stretch teams.
Strach’s attitude to Digard has at least got to be open to question at present, though.
The only slight fly in the Osbourne ointment may be that he is currently on police bail, having been arrested at Villa's training ground a month ago on suspicion of conspiracy to rob. That's an offence that covers an incredibly wide bandwidth of seriousness but any robbery is serious enough. Let's hope he's at the junior end of the spectrum and/or nothing more comes of it.
I agree with JP (WHAT'S GOING ON!), I'd like to see a GON-Osbourne-Digard-Johnson midfield, I think we look so much better with O'Neil on the right, and I think he's more effective there. Let's hope Digard's absence last week was fitnes-based.
Along with Williams/Hoyte - Wheater - St.Ledger - Grounds at the back and Lita - Bent up front. That's a team that should cause problems home and away.
I spent a few minutes checking up info on McArthur - meanwhile Boro had a new central midfielder already training at Rockcliffe. So I made a total idiot of my self there!
Glad we have some players coming in as our squad is quite slim. Interesting to see what happens in January. But I agree with above that the GS2 acts quickly - without too much talking around.
Up the Boro!
BoroPhil
If you knock /Hoyte out of your suggestions and look at my Boro Banter pre-match piece tomorrow lunchtime you'll find I agree with the rest of your team selection too!!
Spooky or what?!
I'd like Danny Coyne back in goal too but I'm not pushing my luck and Santa won't come early, I'm sure.
Boro Phil
I emailed JP about you and I agreeing. He decided I needed some counselling and took a large cheque of me for the privilege.
Now you are agreeing with him so I am going to send the bailiffs round for a refund.
The only ones against whom there has been a conspiracy to rob are the ones who have attended the Riverside over the last year or so. Football? We've not seen much of it, have we?
Money under false pretences! It didn't do what it said on the tin. We must all be mad, or have too much money.
I understand we're allowed up to eight loan signings ~ is that your understanding, AV? If that's the case, I'm pretty sure we'll see some more players added in the next while or so as the gaffer continues to bolster our squad. That should keep Mr Lamb busy toying with his well-thumbed abacus well into the twilight hours.
Boro Phil.
You will probably have to age 30 years and do a Mido like Greggs conversion but you seem well on the way to joining forces with Gill and Powls.
The only spanner in the works is what GS2 does with his team selection. Arca played well in an unusual position so there is the chance of roughly the same again. There is also a chance Gordon will go with a five man midfield by adding Osbourne and playing Lita up front on his own (replaced by Bent in the second half).
It will probably be several weeks before we see a trend in GS2's selection policies. It would make it very difficult at the moment to talk about tactics in a column on Comeonboro but luckliy I am not a self publicist like some others.
Gordon Strachan has said he's powerless to stop Adam Johnson leaving the Riverside - is this the first indication by the club that they've reached the end of their attempts to persuade him to sign a new deal?
If so, then given the financial constraints, will GS2 decide to cash in on AJ in January if an 'acceptable' bid is made? I don't know what compensation Boro would be entitled to in the summer, but can we afford to lose him given he's by far out most potent player on the pitch - Though, the law of Typical Boro would probably mean Johnson suffering an injury if we decided not to sell him.
But should we put all our promotional eggs in one basket? Or should we heed the warnings of failing to sell Downing this time last year in order to strengthen the team as a whole - I don't think it's clear cut of what the best decision is if a bidding war takes the price past the £5m mark before mid-January.
Does anyone else think AV has been abducted by aliens? No new blogs or replies to posts in days. If he has found something in life more important that work or indeed football, I for one envy him.
As for tomorrow I see a 1-1 draw, can’t go as I promised myself never to go to Selhurst Park again after being there for both of our cup exits in one season. The FA cup one was quite spectacular as the game seamed to finish at midnight but got me out of the usual Valentines night chores.
Victory on the 21st
**AV writes: Yes, I have been kidnapped by aliens. Please send help.
3-0 to the Boro, tomorrow, 3 points, fourth place, no problem!!
8 loan signings!!!!
So that leaves Wheater, Johnson and 1 other plus 8 loanees then.
Who will the other 1 be?
On Adam Johnson :
The following is an extract of a quote from Gordon Strachan, as reported in Northern Echo today, Friday, 6 November 2009: -
"How can I tempt him to stay? I’m sure Steve (Gibson) and Keith (Lamb), who have known him for a long time, have done their best,” said Strachan.
"I don’t think I can do any better. I’m only doing my job and it’s very hard for me to sit down with anyone and have a heart to heart with them. I don’t know them that well. When you sit down it’s vital that you know them and they know you.
"You can then have a conversation and have knowledge of the person, I know Adam the footballer, but not as a person."
How better to get to know a person than to sit down with him and have a conversation? How else will he get to know the lad, what makes him tick, what motivates him , what his life’s ambitions are, how he'd like to go about it and, other than letting him go somewhere else, how Boro might help him further achieve those ambitions in the immediate future?
THAT's coaching! Otherwise, it's negotiation - and Lamb/ Gibson are already on the back foot with that and Johnson knows it, with at least three clubs Premier League Clubs tracking him and with only six months left on his Boro contract and several contract revision offers (it’s been reported) already having been refused.
If THAT's Strachan’s best shot at coaching his lads, then I'm badly disappointed and although he'll maybe have an experienced tactical edge on Southgate, he's not offering ANY improvement in one-on-one, person-to-person, skills than his predecessor. By adopting an approach like that, he's adding no value to what Gibson and Lamb have offered Johnson in the first place!
But if we are to take Strachan’s public declarations literally, then it appears that Gordon’s too busy doing his job to do his job!
I'm not anti-Strachan, by any means. I really DO want him to succeed big-time. But these remarks are worrying, if they're a true reflection of his real approach to coaching and mentoring.
He needs to show a GENUINE interest in Adam Johnson's immediate and intermediate development. Anything other than that and the evidence is that Johnson will be off, either in January, leaving the club in deep do-do in sporting terms, but slightly better off financially than if he goes in Summer.
If we have ANY chance at all of keeping him beyond Summer, then we MUST gain promotion - and to do THAT, at this point in time, it looks like we need Johnson beyond January.
So that rather circular argument boils down to:-
If the club genuinely wants to keep Johnson, they MUST keep him motivated and playing for the club beyond January. To do that, Strachan needs to get to "know" the lad and make it clear that he is taking a full and honest account of Johnson's feelings and ambitions, as well as a fair appraisal of his skills and worth to Boro.
Strachan needs to have a series of conversations with Johnson to get that process started – and he will have to be genuine about it, if it is to have any chance of success.
We all know where promising one thing and delivering another takes us!
Based on Richard's comments, Im convinced hes a fifteen year old
Werdermouth:
If Steve Gibson is hungrier for immediate promotion than he is for a healthier bank balance, then he won't let Johnson go at all in January and he'll instruct Strachan to keep him motivated and delivering for Boro for as long as he's with us.
I'm sure it won't be Gordon Strachan's decision to let him go, if he does go. If I was in Strachan's shoes, I'd resign if instructed to let Johnson go in January. Southgate would have had to do it, because Southgate bought into the "business" imperatives. I don't believe Strachan has bought willingly into a contracting environment. He's come in to get Boro promoted. He can't therefore willingly accept the disappearance if his most potent attacking player earlier than is absolutely necessary, therefore. Surely not?!
As far as Johnson's concerned, if he continues to perform, he knows there's a bigger pay offer likely in the Summer. Interest isn't likely to disappear. The only thing that disappears is Boro's transfer fee and its replacement by some relatively small compensation amount. That's not Adam Johnson's concern.
Adam Johnson’s heralded immediate fate will be locally watched with an intensity as great as that of the appointment of Steve McClaren’s replacement. Because it will be a clear indication of statement of where Steve Gibson's focus is.
Will Johnson prove to be another Luke Young? Will Gibson's declarations in May prove to have been expedient rhetoric - or did he actually mean it?
To voluntarily sell our most prolific scorer and our only really creative midfielder in a season the target for which has been openly declared as "immediate promotion" would, to my way of thinking, at least, expose Steve Gibson's publicly declared ambition for the season as a complete sham.
My opinion is that Johnson will stay at least until Summer. Beyond that will depend on whether Boro are promoted and how Johnson sees his future with Boro at that time, when viewed against any other concrete offers that are on the table.
Possibly the biggest threat to all concerned is if Johnson is free to sign a pre-contract agreement with another club in January and demotivates himself to avoid injury. However, I don't know the rules governing such arrangements. Sounds dodgy to me. But this football after all and the likes of Boksic, Mido and others have got away with all sorts.
Ian,
Yeah, I'd expect us to just make two changes tomorrow, Bent in for Emnes (a must) and Grounds in for Poga.
I hope we don't end up discarding Emnes, he obviously has potential. He should be a dangerous player to bring off the bench if we are in front away from home. I notice Bent doesn't even think he is here, all he can talk about is a potential partnership between him and Lita.
The more I think about Bent, the more I think he could be a fantastic signing. Just what we need up front.
A tough old game tomorrow. If only Darren Ambrose was playing for us! What are the predicitons people?
I was very interested in the Strach interview on the MFC website front page. He comments on preferring players to be married, I agree with this and while he cannot force it I think the settled discipline of family life tends to bring on field success. I think being a good manager involves helping players on and off the field, and think GS2 is aware of that and will bring a better and more mature vibe to the changing room over time.
All the best getting Wheater a bird however ;-)
Preview of tomorrow for all interested.
http://www.comeonboro.com/columns/314018.php
Stew
Richard
Maybe Gordon is distancing himself from the Johnno issue publicly but in the background is doing his best to get him to stay. For all we know Johnno may have told him he is going whatever we do. That is the problem, 'for all we know' are the operative words.
We have little knowledge of the machinations at the Riverside other than through conjecture and our own analysis of the information available.
My view is that he is going whatever we offer him. My gut instinct is that sitting behind Downing in the pecking order has not improved his health and temper even though he has never really grasped his opportunities until now.
Maybe my earlier posting may be right and we get the best price we can and try and have him loaned back to us. Whatever happens you and I cannot influence the outcome, I think that is already set in stone. A case of not if but who and when.
And for this who are thinking I am a neg head, think again. How often do contract refuseniks stay put when someone from a bigger club comes calling?
Jiffy said:
"8 loan signings!!!! So that leaves Wheater, Johnson and 1 other plus 8 loanees then. Who will the other 1 be?"
Of course Brad Jones. Nearly MOM in last match and a clear crown favorite - especially on these pages!!! UTB!
The Sun on Johnno:
"GORDON STRACHAN fears he is powerless to stop Adam Johnson quitting Middlesbrough.
Sunderland are eyeing the £10million-rated Boro ace whose contract is up next summer. The Riverside boss said: "The club have made numerous attempts to sign Adam up. How can I tempt him? I don't know him."
Did he mean that?
First, the Sun rate AJ at £10m. Already in January or in two years time?
Secondly, I think a lot of people have forgotten that DOWNING was the reason why AJ did not sign an extension last year. He wanted to play more. Now he is playing more but we are in C'hip - unfortunately. So we better get promoted in May!
Up the Boro!
Let's all hope that Neil Warnock is bleating about the unfairness of it all tomorrow.
Strachan won't waste his time on a lost cause, Richard. The dye was cast when Southgate preferred to leave him on the bench and when Lamb chose to procrastinate and postulate as is his want.
It was his way of rightly deflecting potential criticism of his leaving elsewhere and I don't blame him.
I do know that he's been trying to get Jinky hooked up as there are far too many Boro players out of wedlock.
gt at 3:20PM: And your grounds for that would be....?
For the most part, this blog is frequented by people who are erudite and many proffer reasoned points of insight that they're usually prepared to share.
Occasionally, a few others of a somewhat less than rational persuasion are allowed to slip through!
Congratulations gt! You made it where many Aussie's couldn't!
Stewart Flaherty at about 5.53pm yesterday - Wheater will have no problem getting a bird. Firstly as a good looking Redcar lad, the girls will all flock to his side. Secondly, have you seen the size of his wallet?
And as for Adam Johnson the equation is simples (as the Meerkat would say). If we sell him in January we might get a few millions for him (we would have got rather more if he had a lengthy contract to run, but such is life at the Riverside). But then we would have little chance of a return to the Premier League, so it would have cost us at least £30M, and more.
How much does the club want to go up? And AJ's value to a new club (and therefore the size of his contract with a "Big Club" if he leaves say in June) will be bigger if he has stayed, shown consistent quality and scored goals in the same proportion for the rest of the season (the best part of 20 for the year?).
In other words it could be good financially for AJ to stay to the end of the season, do as well as we think he can do, get us promoted and get himself a better deal with the biggest of clubs.
The problem is that a high proportion of children find it difficult to defer gratification. There is a famous experiment where children are offered a sweet now, or (if they wait 5 minutes) they could have three. Predictions as to which of these groups AJ would be belong? Or as to how much influence his agent has?
Finally it is disheartening to hear some berating AV for his lack of presence. I suspect autumn redecorating has raised its ugly head again. Or it could be that long-awaited ten part series is about to hit the presses "Boro: the guaranteed route to commercial and sporting success in four short years. How a football giant will grow out of the Infant Hercules' footsteps -the re-writing of football's future with a Teesside accent....Chapter One - promotion."
**AV writes: The problem is when you start to write almost every day peopel become to believe that should be the norm. I fear like Boro I am the victim of artificially heightened expectation.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea for Strachan to encourage the Boro squad to get married considering that they only seem to be interested in playing away from home.
By-the-way Stewart, I thought Wheater was heavily involved with two fat ladies.
I'm a bit confused by Strachan's comments in today's Gazette when he says judge me after three-and-a-half years.
I may have missed something but wasn't the main reason Southgate was sacked was because Gibson feared Boro wouldn't gain promotion THIS year on current team performances.
So surely the judgement of whether GS2 was a success is if he has won promotion come May 2010 - otherwise why did we bother sacking Gareth?
Can't take part in the live match Boro Blog today (as the Strangled Vole doesn't do internet) but I will attempt to keep in touch via Radio Brownlee whilst Sky blares away in the corner. Hope the beer is good (a Ringwood Bitter or two today, I think) as I don't like crying in it.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I reckon there's a good chance we will rob them at Palace. 1 - 2 anyone? Unfortunately someone has been messing around with the runes in the last few weeks, and I don't feel strongly enough to trouble the turf accountant with my enthusiasm.
And before leaving, I hear Bent gets his debut, and Osbourne starts (never having scored a goal so far in his career). I'd hate it if our loan signing robs Rhys Williams of a World Cup place next summer, as our "academy veteran" Williams can hardly expect to be picked if he doesn't feature for a club that only plays in the Championship. How about St Ledger and Lita to score?
Forever Dormo, you did not miss much. Same old story - good chances but the goals went missing! UTB (uugh)!
Forever, how about 1-0 to Palace?
My lad broke his nose last week and cant play rugby for 5 weeks so we watched England v Australia whilst listening to Brownlee with score updates on the internet in another window. The language was unfit for polite company as we struggled for which idiots to shout at next.
LOL Werdermouth.
Forever Dormo am I to guess you bear some resemblance to big Dave? ;-)
Ian Gill, you may find that some other "self publicists" also took the time to link your work
You have to stand back and applaud Gibson and Lamb. To take the club from UEFA cup finalists to Championship mid table mediocrity in less than three and half seasons, AND managing to convince some fans and journalists that this was not their real intention is simply a stroke of genius.
They did this by appointing a clearly unqualified player as a Premiership manager who didn't even know how to coach and keeping him in position until the job was done to their satisfaction, then sacking him so he could be the fall guy. At the same time removing resources from the club for other projects.
They say that Gibson deserves a knighthood. No, he should be given a Dukedom. THE GRAND OLD DUKE OF YORK!!
Well that's it.
I looked at my promotion chart in excel which I can send or upload if you like but it is there in black and white. Automatic promotion has already passed us by. The play-offs will not realise anything for us either as you need passion grit and luck to get through and we have none of these.
I shouldn't really have got my hopes up, shouldn't have subscribed to the live radio and shouldn't have ordered a new Boro mug for my coffee whilst I listened to the match at home on the PC.
But we never learn do we? We have been all cursed with the Boro curse from the beginning.
I have posted this before but my ex wife called it child abuse to support the Boro instead of Man Utd "for the sake of the children" as she put it. Well, I am beginning to wonder if she may have been right all those years ago.
What on earth happened?
I hope AV, that you give us an honest report on the match and where you think our failings were and if we stand any chance of putting it right. The radio commentary was sycophantic to say the least as he obviously wanted to keep up the ratings but what the hell, we've already paid now so at least he can say that we were usless? or were we? I really don't know who to believe any more.
Stewart
My tongue firmly in my cheek I'm afraid!
Stewart Flaherty at 4.35am - same chiselled jaw and hairline but rather shorter legs and a MUCH smaller wallet than big Dave. Don't know where I went wrong, really.....
We cannot score, that's for sure. We had changes enough to win a few games. At least we are creating them. But...
The change in management have not helped so far, that's for sure.
Up the Boro?
Rob said:
"You have to stand back and applaud Gibson and Lamb. To take the club from UEFA cup finalists to Championship mid table mediocrity in less than three and half seasons, AND managing to convince some fans and journalists that this was not their real intention is simply a stroke of genius".
You know what, Rob, some people think the former glories of some and even the continued failures of others means they can do no wrong, even now...but for what it's worth though mate, I'm with you.
For the first time in years I don't feel tetchy at bad results. I almost expect them. I don't feel I 'know' this team as the Boro. It has no history, mainly a bunch of temporary blow-ins.
Think Sheffield United - 12 years to get back up. Why not, cause if we did with a squad of this calibre we could be heading for a record Premiership points low score.
AV, I notice Tuncay came on as an 80th min sub for Stoke. That must be doing his international cred a treat.
John, Aus
Let's hope that over the next two weeks GS2 can pull a rabbit out of the bag in the form of a goal scoring striker, that would be a novelty wouldn't it?
We did get fooled again.
Another opportunity missed.
How long do you think Tuncay will last at Stoke? Bench warmer all season and then subbed when brought on as a sub yesterday. Any chance of Boro getting him in on loan?
C'Mon Boro!
Tim from SA:
No we didn't, Tim!
What you may not have noticed John is that after coming on as a 80th minute sub Tuncay was then taken off SEVEN minutes later after Faye was sent off - needless to say Tuncay was so angry he stormed off down the tunnel.
Maybe worth enquiring about a loan deal as despite leaving in August he's still scored more goals for us than Lita or Emnes?
Fair play Ian
OK well call me mad I still have not lost hope! 10th makes ugly reading but fear we are in for a season long case of a win moving us into the playoff spots, and a loss putting us out of them. All very exciting but far too stressful, I just do not see us falling out of the promotion race OR seperating ourselves from it in the top 2.