Pigment of the Imagination
THERE is a picture on the back page of today's Gazette of Boro's tattooed rock god Jeremie Aliadiere. The French forager is sporting the en vogue colourful sleeve of artistically interlocking tattoos favoured by American pseudo-punk groups like Blink 182, or hairy bikers of the type more concerned with bloody gang feuds with rival drug cartels than blind baking choux pastry cases for a summer fruit tart, or indeed those waiting on death row in Alabama State Penitentiary.
On the other wrist he has a barcode, presumably to keep a tally of his goals, a design which can be updated every time he notches. Or annually, which ever is the sooner.
Nice tattoos, and expensive too no doubt, and perfectly in keeping with the mash-up inflections of Jezza's syntax mangling French-Cockney-Jamaican patois ghetto accent that echoes the capital's multicultural urban dispossessed. Innit?
But where did they spring from? The tats, not the urban dispossed. They weren't there last season. At least not with such explosive retina scraping urgency. When he arrived he had one distinct but relatively understated and discreet monochrome tattoo, on the inside of the other arm which he explained was his DOB. Y'know, in case he forgets.
And he was similarly unscribbled on at the start of last season when he did a mean and moody photo-shoot to launch the (then) new away kit. Mysteriously he then spent most of last season wearing long sleeves - I know, I've been through the Gazette's electronic photo-library and there are almost no pictures of him bare-armed - and while many thought he was just being a bit of a Gallic wuss covering up in when it got a bit chilly (gloves and everything) it was clearly a deliberate covering up of his easel to build up the anticipation and speculation while the living art installation was completed.
And wow! Send for the Turner Prize judges. Now the sleeve has a vaguely religious mystical feel about it with stars and lightning bolts and shafts of evocative sunlight straight off a medieval cathedral stained glass window. All we need is the celebratory choir of angels and some hint of stigmata and we are thrust deep into the emotional tumult and pyschedelic peasant fervour of the hysterical Cathar heresy.
Or alternatively it could just be a footballers trend. Beckham, Bellamy, Djibril Cisse.... they are all at it. Wayne Rooney either showed a fantastic self deprecating sense of humour and an astute self awareness belied by his mono-syllabic media utterances or has been the victim of an cruelly ironic artist when he had the title of Stereophonic album "Just Enough Education To Perform" inked on his person.
(Which opens a whole new avenue of unarguable appropriate album tattoos on footballers.... Born To Run - Marvin Emnes; Rumours - Ashley Cole; Appetite For Destruction - Joey Barton; Last Night A DJ Saved My Life - Stewie Downing... etc)
Fernando Torres has his name on his leg (again, just so he doesn't forget) only written in "tengwar", the fictitious Lord of the Rings language invented by Tolkien to be spoken by hobbits, hippies and sad polyglots who presumably also have a smattering of Klingon.
In the past tattoos were for dockers and criminals and footballers sporting them were very rare. The first overly inked hardman I can remember was Bolton's Stig Tofting who was a real life Hells Angel in his spare time - which gives him much more right to look like a Yakuza assassin than being a decent golfer or unbeatable at CoD on the Xbox does.
Now you can't move in a dressing room without feeling like you are in a dockside bar in Tangiers. Getting a tat is now de rigeur for any player who make it big. It comes as an optional extra with a Porsche Cayenne and you get complimentary designs of your name in Hindi in the Sky Sports goodie bag when you go on the Soccer AM sofa.
They are such common currency in the game that Liverpool perma-crock Daniel Agger has crossed over from customer to needle wielding artist. He has "done" quite a few of his very trusting team-mates while he has been learning ("You'll Never Walk Alan") and is now branching out as a professional... I think he is available for childrens' parties.
No weekend is complete without seeing a shirt ripped off in celebration to reveal a torso with ever more outlandish and frankly stupid designs (have you seen the state of Stephen Ireland's angel wings? What a clip! You'd never go in a swimming pool again. Unless it was a harp shaped one and you owned it yourself obviously) making Match of the Day a cocktail of poncy high end fashion mag, Prison Break and a BBC4 late night documentary deconstructing Maori tribal markings.
Of course, the upsurge in fashionable ink is not confined to footballers. Poor tattoos are everywhere - literally - in every town in the country: and it is not just DIY 'Mams' or crude borstal spots - check out those tribal bands, hoolie colours, 'tramp stamps' and cheeky cartoon characters on bingo wings in the swimming pool.
But footballers can take it a step further. As predominantly working class lads with plenty of time and money on their hands - and no need to worry about future employment prospects being blighted by a fragments of the Cistine Chapel poking out across the backs of hands or behind ears - why not gradually colour themselves in as part of the battle against boredom, always keeping inside the lines naturally. There's no harm in it. I mean, its kept saucer-eyed Robbie Williams sane, artistically sharp and drug free.
So, Jezza's tats. Nice. But the one that fascinates me is David Wheater's.
He has a work in progress on the inside of his arm which includes a series of scrolls that have been left blank. Either he fainted with the pain and never went back to get them inked in or he is reserving them deliberately for some future legend, a first born child's name perhaps, or, more optimistically "Boro, Champions League 2016."
Or maybe, to reflect his down to Earth Teessideosity that goes up to 11, maybe 'Mungle Jungle' or 'Pride, Passion, Parmoes". Or something bingo related. Boro should encourage him to run a competition to complete the missing slogan. What do you think?
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Aliadiere looks more like 'king of the gypsies' than a hard man but I still think he should start alongside Lita.
This international break is going on forever.
Boring!
AV said:
"On the other wrist he (Aliadiere) has a barcode, presumably to keep a tally of his goals, a design which can be updated every time he notches.Or annually, whichever is the sooner"
'OUCH'
More concerned with the length of his hair than his tattoos. Get it cut so he can see where he's going-same for Emnes.
AV
Wheats will need to watch out - The Count will be wanting to sell the space! Shirt sponsorship and product placement is so passe! Branding isn't in it!
Are we sure that Jezza isn't employing one of those tat printed transluscent sleeves? If he is you could then get into an Antony Gormley 'fourth plinth' gig and have a different design every match suggested by a fan.
The ruthless pragmatists amongst us might suggest a permanent 'exam crib' - like how to defend set pieces or what to do in 'red zones', for example. For Jezza, it could be where the goal is and how to find the net on a regular basis.
This trend could even spread to Refs - but with our experience in the Championship so far you'd need the large print version.
Pigment of the Imagination?
For goodness sake AV, get a grip. It is bad enough coming up with something relevant about Boro to sneak a post in as it is. I dread to think what the next part of talking Boro is about if this is the type of topic we have to blog about.
Anywhere near the 35,000 yet?
**AV writes: This is kind of thing we actually talk about at work you know. This and whether any of us should challenge Gary O'Neil to a round of the crazy golf at Preston Park. We don't sit around agonising over tactics, moving salt cellars and coke cans around the desks to see if a diamond would work against Watford.
Besides, there hasn't been a match for ten days. We are going stir crazy
AV
Sounds a bit like how they operate at Hurworth.
You can just see the meeting about what to do againstt Watford being a bit of Reeves and Mortimer.
'Ulrikakakakaka. Is it Plan A or Plan B? A or B?'
Whatever she answers the response is. 'Neither, who said we have a plan?'
I wonder if Jezza rolled about on the floor at the touch of the needle?
What about the 35,000 mark?
JP
If the badge is anything to go by I suggest Wheats goes to a local infant school for the rest of the design.
John Powls said:
"Wheats will need to watch out - The Count will be wanting to sell the space! Shirt sponsorship and product placement is so passe! Branding isn't in it!"
Boro's commercial department struggles to get the basics right so I doubt whether they could be that creative to sell branding space on one of our players.
In the first picture (above) Aliadiere is merely pointing out the gap in the stands between supporters!
Ernest - Aliadiere must not get his hair cut because (a la Samson) if he does he will loose his god given gift of goal scoring!
Who will be the first player to have a sponsor tat, Nike, Adidas etc!?
Yes we really are trawelling the depths now its time for a footie match, anyone fancy a game? Ra Ra's v Chicken Runners per chance?
**AV writes: Plumbing the depths? That's top quality tongue in cheek fanzine whimsy that. We have been so long in crisis I think we have forgotten that the game is supposed to be the vehicle for our humour as well as angst.
And didn't Dean Windass have a Puma tattoo as part of his boot deal?
Any truth in the rumour that Afonso Alves had the Rockwell boiler room tattoed on his body, and is now, as we speak, on the run with Mido?
A splendid piece of nonsense, AV! We used to find out what players had for lunch and what their first ever LP was. Now it's tattoos. All part of life's rich pattern on Planet Boro.
Personally, I think Caleb Folan and Didier Digard both ought to invest in tattoos on the inside of their thighs specially for the staff at Crockcliffe to read:- "Leave well alone, my groin's fine!" or simply, "Hands Off, I'll get better by myself!"
Is it true that Brad Jones has the immortal words "Don't Panic!" tattooed across his back?
Very good. No one could face another blog about Southgate anyway. I think Wheats should get "Our Mam" on his tat and be done with it.
Hi AV
I've given you lots of plaudits for past articles - but this one is scraping the barrel.
Can we please get back to talkin' footy and our club! Cheers
**AV writes: Talk away. You start, we'll join in.
Philistine! Don't you understand that the unfinished aspect of Wheater's adornment IS the art. It represents POTENTIAL, it is a metaphor for his own unwritten future.
Like Anthony Gormley's fourth plinth project it offers the exciting public possibility of a thousand masterpieces of interpretation.
I like this, it's tattoo Blankety Blank. Let's go back to 1979 and cue Terry Wogan.
Vic the columnist said, "David Wheater is so devoted to Teesside, that even his tattoo says BLANK"... or BLANKS!
Roy Hudd: the big one at the top says YER JOKIN' and the little one further down says AREN' YER?
To be honest, this is probably the wrong game show, considering that you can tell by the eye sockets, the nose and the jawline that by the time he's eighty-three he's going to end up looking like Bruce Forsyth. How about DIDN'T THEY and DO WELL?
When I first saw the picture of Aliadiere I thought 'I don't recall him having a tattoo' but then my mind quickly moved on - but not you AV. Not only did you investigate further but you were also inpired to write a thoroughly entertaining article (where's eddie's sense of humour hiding?) - I guess that's how the warped mind of a journalist operates.
I would never entertain the idea of having a tattoo. It's like having to wear the same T-Shirt for the rest of your life - or in Ali's case looking at the same curtains for eternity whilst also forgetting to take off the label. It's just further proof that footballers are paid too much and have no idea how to spend all that dosh.
The worse tattoo I ever saw was in a pub in Sheffield whilst I was a student. We had the misfortune to get into a conversation with some nutter who decided he was our best friend and we quickly noticed that he had tattooed his name on his forehead 'CLIVE' - unfortunately he'd done it himself in the mirror and the 'L' was back-to-front.
As for Wheater's 'Amy Winehouse' type effort - by the looks of it he probably made a pre-season pact with the Berlin Wall where they both decided to have 'Wheater' and 'Huth' on their arms as a show of solidarity. Luckily the call from Robert, saying he was off to Stoke, came just in time.
Thornaby Chris
Re Wheats and Brucie. In a bid to woo he crowds back to the Riverside how about
'Nice to see you'
'to see you, nice'
and maybe underneath some extra tattooing
'Nice to see you my love'
Or how about 'Southgate' and 'out' or 'you're getting sacked' and 'in the morning'
He could double up and have both arms done. Right arm 'Red army', left arm 'Red army' then he can sing along in the bath with his two 'arm'ys
There again ... 'Parmo' 'Army'
Anywhere near 35,000 yet?
**AV writes: "Are we there yet...." We are a couple of hundred shy now. One lively thread of bitter faction fighting and recriminations might take us there... a late Watford winner from Boro reject Danny Graham might just do it.
AV
It doesnt need a Danny Graham winner, both camps have posts already saved as Word documents ready to copy and paste dependent on the result. A no score draw would be favourite because that fuels both parties blogging fury.
A defeat and the foam is quietly put in the drawer for a weekend whilst the bedwetters get going. A win and we have the told you so brigade toped up with a few 'and so we should beat Watford'.
Should I come up for a last ditch corner and leave Werdermouth lurking near the half way line? Tricky. Must concentrate for the full 90 mins plus time added on for blog wasting.
AV with the excitement building towards the 35,000 post (I hope it’s something irrelevant and completely disjointed, but then it would be just like a boro home performance)
Who was the first post? Has the standard improved or are we brining the level of posting down to new lows?
As for tattoos, couldn’t a player show is loyalty with LOVE on one set of knuckles and BORO on the other. Maybe Shawky could have HOME & SICK, Mido =MORE PIES, Marvin could have OPEN GOAL, Wheater = ZERO CAPS
**AV writes: John Powls was the first to post. In fact we had a cosy two way dialogue going on for the first few days before Teesside's most discerning and articulate soccerati circle started to flourish.
No need to worry Ian I haven't even got a strategy to hold aloft the glittering prize of the 35,000 post.
On a completely unrelated point AV, would a post be removed from the blog if I accidentally clicked on 'Report This Comment'
**AV writes: I don't know. No one has ever used it. I moderate before publication so I take all the swearies and libels out but there's nothing to say you couldn't report a poster for over zealous delusional foamery or offensively damp bedding.
If John Powls was the first to post to the blog who has sent most posts so far?
As Werdermouth I hate tattoos, too. But still find this good read. Perhaps getting fed up with reading complains about GS talent (or opinions of lack of it).
We talk a lot about experience needed in the team. Well now we have that in the spine of the team if selected. Goalie (Conny) - CB (Poggy) - central midfield (GON) - Striker (Lita). Perhaps GON and Lita are still reasonably young but they have played both in the PL and CC, though.
I really look forward to the following two home games now. Hope we get maximum points! Up the Boro!
**AV writes: Most posts? I don't know. There may be a button that can show me those kind of things but I have never really bothered looking. It is a quality rather than quantity type of operation.
Spooky A.V. we have commented at few matches this season with reference to JA being a wimp for wearing long sleeved shirts, in what was a relatively pleasant climate. Now we know he was modelling for Popeye, it explains everything.
Perhaps now the scars have healed, he can get his balance back and run in straight lines or weave without falling over every five minutes. Oh! the irony of it all....
It's obvious AV has nothing to do at the moment - he's responding to virtually every post!
Just returning to Dean Windass and the Puma tat. Of course if sponsored tats did in fact take off Dean would be at a commercial advantage to most other pros given he has a greater surface area than most of them.
Here's a thought, returning to footie for a minute (sorry). Johnson leaves in the Summer 'cause he gets a better offer. By January 2011 Stewie realises he's not going to get a regular game at Villa and returns to Boro in a £5m deal. What do you think foam fume induced fantasy or a possible prospect?
*AV writes: Planet Boro doesn't stop turning just because there's no game you know. And there are still the same number of pages to fill. Good old Talking Boro!
Quality? What’s all this preoccupation with 35,000, then, if that’s not about Quantity?
What the hell’s so significant about 35,000 anyway, other than a crowd number that Boro can’t even aspire to? It’s less than Manchester United would get for a 1st round Carling Cup Home tie against Dagenham & Redbridge – if they ever were called upon to perform in a Carling Cup 1st round match I the first place – which they wouldn’t be, because they’re too busy bigging it up in the Champions league in front of crowds of 2 X 35,000.
35,000? It’s such an insignificant number. So insignificant, I won’t give a damn if I’m not the one to post it! Not me! Not likely!
35,000 - a measure of how tedious blogging is becoming with Boro in the Championship (spit) and the lack of really imaginative topical heart-stopping or adrenalin-inducing issues there are to pump us all up. 35,000? I mean, what’s that all about?
Maybe David Wheater’s waiting in the wings to claim 35,000th post to Anthony Vickers’ Untypical Boro blog when he slips into the dialogue box and scores off his post? Then we might see the tattoo blanks filled in with “I was” and “35,000th”.
Somehow I can’t see Wheater hitting the “Submit” button though – it’s not in his character. Especially for something that would take some explaining to his grandkids in the future. “Oh! The tattoo on Grandad’s arm? Well, that was when I erm….won,….. well, not exactly won, erm….. well it was when I was 35,000th in a thing in the Evening Gazette….once. It was a, well, it was well…… OK!, OK!,…..it was a mistake!”
“Was that like your own goal against Tottenham Hotspur in the opening match of Boro’s relegation season 2008-9 then, Grandad ?”
“Any more of that and there’s another 34,999 of them to come, sonny boy!”
**AV writes: I never started the 35k thing, I was just responding to the demands of our glory-hunting landmark-junkie fraternity who wanted to know what the next milestone. I just take it one blog at a time.
I have gone down the Hurworth route and scientifically worked out the result for the Watford game.
It is a shame that we are not playing them at their gaff as they have conceded 10 goals in their last three home games. Unfortunately for Boro we are at home and Watford have only conceded two goals in their last three away games. So by my method we are going to lose 1 – 0, obviously the goal scorer will be Danny Graham.
Using a non scientific method I will be putting my hard earned on a Boro goal fest and backing 4 - 1
AV
There are some excellent curiousities in 'Talking Boro III' - and I'm not talking about Bernie's foam at the mouth coda to the piece.
Was the abrupt cut at the end to facitate the 'people in white coats' racing into the room with that special jacket and the liquid cosh? And no visible tats on the assembled throng, that I could see
My favourite, though, is the camera person's fascination with the choccy biccies on the table. Doubtless, they would argue that this was all about pin sharp focus and that mysterious thing they call 'white balance' but I think it goes deeper.
Were they real choccy biccies? Can the Gazette empire still afford such things or did Big Phil cough up out of his own pocket? Or are they empty wrappers or just put on show as set dressing and removed after the shoot when the accountant has made sure none have been consumed or spirited into someone's bag?
I'm sure that this must be the case and a salivating underling handling the camera got fixated on a crunchy and chocolatey promised land they (and you) were never destined to eat.
I'm sure the shirt that Bernie had in front of him was intended as one of those 'Mission: Impossible' tactics to help him nick the plateful. He goes into a 'foaming rant' diversion, throws the shirt over the plate and spirits the biccies away.
All this puts me in mind of the 'semiotics of biccies' that was a big part of the culture of a major business I used to work for - this was some time ago, when major businesses could afford biccies.
You had to to have someone a few rungs up the corporate ladder before you got any sort of biccies at a meeting. 'Executive' had to be somewhere in their title before they were choccy ones. (That promoted some inventive job titles, I can tell you!)
For individually foil wrapped choccy biccies it was Board Directors and CEO only.
Everyone recognised the code, so, when a mate of mine was late for a meeting and stepped through the door to be faced with a plate of the foil wrapped beauties he ventured 'Bloody hell, if I'd known it was that important I'd have been on time'.
35k? Phooey! There's only one first.
My goodness, Saturday still seems like light years away!
AV
Not sure how many more of the Talking Boro series there are but will MFC get the right of reply?
After one more go for the panel, you could have:-
'Talking Boro V - The Empire Strikes Back' with Emperor Gibbo, Darth Lamb and Gareth Sith-gate.
The startling denoument reveals that Bernie - far from being a fence climbing spawn of Glasgow - is actually Darth Lamb's love child!
Can he lure him to the Dark Side?
Football, please.... football!
AV - Same number of pages to fill? Don't you just drop a sheet or two and save on the cost of a roll of newsprint? Or alternatively if news is a bit thin on the ground surely the sales and marketing dept. on the top floor step up to the plate and wack in a few more ad's! By the way, what's the old composing room used for these days?
Any footie on the horizon yet......
Aliadiere's home planet?
Tatooine
And there I leave you - back where you started.
Sorry to drift off topic.
How many people here agree with the decision of Notts County to dispense with the services of Ian MacParland?
Grove Hill Wallah at 5.15pm - it does seem a little "premature", you might say. Unless they have already lined up a swift UK return for Mourinho! Just how deep are the "other" Magpies' pockets?
I see JP is trying to get some symmetry by aiming for 35,000 to go with his no 1.
This is 14 posts since AV said around 200 but was it more or less than 200.
Just out of interest you could always email the exact number that this post brings the total up to. Purely out of interest of course and I wont tell anyone else to spoil the fun.
AV
Just a thought. The only comment I have noticed about the Talking Boro Trilogy is Johns thoughts about the biscuits. Is this an indictment of the debate therein?
Discuss.
Thus far it seems to be banalities and generalities with little substance unlike this blog. You didnt even discuss Jezzas tattoos.
**AV writes: I blame the formal structure. When you have a general question that invites a consensus - it was filmed after Reading and even Bernie was high on foam fumes - everyone just trots out different versions of the same. I try to say something a bit off-beat each time but it is still a bit clunky.
Ideally it would be a bit more adverserial to provoke a real debate, maybe with one person answering the initial question then others getting a chance to cross examine them, point to the contradictions and play devil's advocate. Or maybe "filmed before a live studio audience" with points from the floor.
Of course, a lot of the good stuff - the squabbles over the biscuits, Bernie and Jeff Winter's Old Firm sectarian banter, ripping into each other's fashion sense and the acidic one liners about Lambie - end up being cut out. I think we should release a post-watershed Directors Cut. It would be very funny.
Typical Frenchman we cried every time Ali hit the deck and rolled around like a piece of limp garlic. But the poor love really was in pain, as his newly pigmented artwork scraped along the turf hidden underneath unseasonaly long sleeves. He's 'arder than we all thought! "I've still got the scars, that the sun didn't heal..."
Roll on Saturday and Watford! Does Elton still follow them I wonder? Looking forward to the Navi debate. Come on Boro fans - first game since the truce! Please let's find our voices and give the gate no excuses for any lacklustre performances.
From Ian Gill's post at 10:12PM, 14 October........ "Thus far it seems to be banalities and generalities with little substance unlike this blog. You didnt even discuss Jezzas tattoos."
And AV's response: **AV writes: I blame the formal structure.
Actually, I believe everyone's shying away from the big questions that we're all thinking, but nobody, so far, has the balls to ask and face up to: "Where does Boro go from here?"
If, after the season's over and if Boro are promoted, can we expect Steve Gibson to find the funds to sustain a Premier League presence for at least a few seasons?
If not, is that enough to satisfy the football-supporting public of Teesside, or should there be mounting pressure to find another model for the club's finances that brings in new money that DOES stand a better chance of satisfying the sporting aspirations of the football-supporting public of Teesside?
Or is Teesside destined to become, in live football spectating terms, a region that once again, can only offer seconds and thirds to its public?
Maybe the hard reality is that Teesside has had its flirtation with the big time, but as the Premier League has marched on it's probably outgrown this region's ability to financially compete and increasingly, only city-based clubs are likely to form the core of that league, while the rest of us make do with sloppy seconds. And let's face it, the quality of the football on display in the Championship has been abysmal so far this season.
Are we happy therefore, to continue to watch second rate dross just because it's Boro that are serving it up and we feel somehow obliged to do so because it's Boro?
Well, undoubtedly, some of us will. But many of us won't. And it'll take not only a return to the Premier League to make a significant change to the participative interest on Teesside - it'll take a demonstrable show of intent to remain there, in the form of serious investment in more and better quality players to bring back the crowds. The issue for Boro is that the better quality players will require convincing too!
Unless new and big money can be found, it's going to be an uphill struggle. And I think that the customers (the modern consumer) may not buy it a third time round, because the world has moved on.
As Ian Gill said: "Discuss"
AV
After I pressed the post button I wondered if I had been a bit harsh (having driven back from dropping someone off at Heathrow) so I am glad I didnt get a broadside.
It certainly lacked the cut and thrust of this medium but there again we are hiding behind a computer keyboard and not sat in front of a camera.
Taken in conjunction with Gate Gate I dont think the issues have been addressed though is there a fourth element of the trilogy, a fourth musketeer so to speak?
Richard,
is it completely impossible in the modern day to produce a football team (with the emphasis on the idea of a TEAM) to compete with assemblages of mercenaries?
I really wonder if the Boro project (reliance on guys who may not be as expensive as Chelski's lot, but who have come through our ranks to a significant extent) can already be judged to have failed? Can this team not settle down and develop each other's games, especially with the great advantage they undoubtedly have of knowing each other pretty thorougly?
It may be a generational thing and I'm quite out of touch with the needs of the modern spectator, which seem to be more about status and money than about old-fashioned values like contributing to the life of your community, but, you know, I think I still believe in the Brian Clough view of management: it's quite a simple game in essence (get the ball, keep it, pass it, stick it in the onion bag if you get the chance) and the most important thing, you could say, is knowing each other's game (strengths, weaknesses, patterns of movement) and working as a team.
If the Boro stopped being one of the best clubs in the United Kingdom at bringing on its own local players, if it stopped supporting its local kids with the Willie Maddren centre's work (and many other such projects), if it sold out to some semi-gangster-type and did just buy in top players with money no object, I can't see any reason why I would support such a club.
I might well defect to Arsenal, who are a proper football club, that is, a club which develops football players (even if most of the first-team are not British) and whose style of play I think most Boro fans would concede is more satisfying to watch than ours ever has been.
You talk of the Boro's flirtation with the big time: and I think you phrase it rightly, because it was never more serious than that, a little bit of pretending. We have had a few players who were great in their time (like Ravanelli, Boksic etc.) but didn't really care for anything about Boro except the club's money, and we bought in a couple who were great in our time (Juninho, Southgate). Then we've flirted with a few who were past it (Gascoigne, Merson, Parlour, Townsend, Hasslebaink etc.) or injury-prone (Viduka, Pallister, Woodgate). Big time clubs get the great players at their peak, and only Juninho fits that bill, in my opinion, although Mendieta destroying Man Utd was an awesome display.
So, where do we go from here? We keep the faith and support the team we've got now and trust the Teessider who is our Chairman to keep supporting them as best he can. I trust his values more than anyone who has made obscene amounts of money in dubious dealings.
Lita's goal against ("only") Reading was better than anything Tuncay showed us last year: he's only 24, you know, and should not prove as lazy and complacent as Boksic or Alves were; Digard could really blossom if he can stay fit; we might manage to keep Johnson and O'Neil; Wheater and St. Ledger could develop into a Premiership pairing; Bennett, Emnes, McMahon, Taylor, Grounds, Hines and Walker all show real promise for the future; and Brad Jones could learn to talk to his back-line more! These are all very possible directions for us to follow. These all give cause for realistic hopes.
Why should we try and be a pale imitation of the Chelskis and the Mackems? For me, as a football club, we are morally much better, even if, as a financial institution, we are much less "impressive".
**AV writes: Good post.
Richard - your obsession with seeing football a product is blinding you to what fans actually want. It is not a product.
If Boro go up I will be DELIGHTED. I know we cant compete any more. I know the money has run out and there will be no more Ravanelli’s Boskic, Inces, Southgates or Alveses. I know that if we go back up we have no chance of getting into Europe and we’ll be competing with Hull, Stoke, Bolton for survival.
But I dont care about that. Because I am a Boro supporter and I just want to see the team competing at the highest possible level and giving it a good crack no matter what. If that is in the Championship so be it, I'll still be there. If it is in a Premiership we can’t really afford and have no chance in, well that's great too.
I don't make my support conditional on the club being able to produce money or what tragets they set. When we went up under Bruce I didn’t walk away saying “we’ve got no chance at this level with a bunch of kids”. If anything that made me prouder to be up there and more determined to support them all the way.
I think we all know that the golden years were artificial and propped up with Gibbo's money. I think we are all realistic enough to know that if we go back up it will be a lot tougher and on a shoestring. Bring it on. I can’t wait for t
halifaxp at 9.27am is clearly a glass half full kind of guy and I generally agree with many of his points.
I agree, at 24, we might expect Lita to improve and I don't think there is any doubt he can score goals at Championship level - maybe at Premier level too? In a higher league we would certainly need an injection of quality up front to go with him. Digard MIGHT stay fit, but it hasn't looked good on that front so far. We have seen only glimpses of him at this stage.
It WOULD be good if we could keep Johnson and O'Neil, and I keep my fingers crossed there. Wheater and St Ledger, both very young for central defenders, look good prospects and are certainly a cut above similar Championship pairings. In a year's time I am confident they would cope with the Premier League. (If we don't go up at the end of this season I would expect Premier clubs to be knocking at our door for them).
Where I am not sure I go along with halifaxp is in his list at the end of his penultimate paragraph. Without judging too harshly young players who are nearer the start of their careers than the end, I am fairly confident Bennett (on only a few showings) and Walker look good for the future. It is too early to say for Grounds and Hines, and for Emnes who has only started to get in the team this season after being "one for the future" last year.
I am not so confident about Taylor who never seems to be fit and I HOPE McMahon can recover the promise he showed when he first appeared on the scene.
However there are grounds for having some confidence in the future. Has anyone here ever imagined what might be made of those players if, for example, someone like Arsene Wenger had control of the team? Surely he would get the most out of the youngsters and would build a very respectable team with the resources we already have.
Of course he seems to have contacts in French Africa and has a sneaky knack of finding (very cheaply available) unknown 17 year old diamonds from the French lower leagues or from Mali or some north African country or other (who, within a year or so turn out to be worth many millions).
Is there not a job opportunity here for some spotty IT nerd skulking around Gazette Towers? If we could just find some way of bugging Wenger's mobile or hacking into his e-mails, we could nip in front of him and sign up the young stars before he does.
Supporting Boro isnt just about glory and money, it is a virus with no known cure and once infected that is it for life.
I stand by whatever financial actions have been taken by the club because I do not have enough knowledge to argue a case. I will continue to argue that from what I have seen, we have not got the best out of the resources avaiilable over several years (including getting the latter years of McClaren in the league).
Whatever the results I will still debate how they could be better because that is the way forward.
We have just under two points a game, we should have more than two.
We have a good goal difference, it should be healthier.
We have a good away record, we should have be the same or better at home.
Our record against top half teams is poor whilst we put poor teams away quite easily. It isnt good enough.
When Jack Charlton was manager we had a stupendous run that was ended with a drubbing at Forest, it hurt. It hurt a lot. That is how it should be. Whatever division we are in, we should be striving to be the best we can with what we have. That is why we should be constuctively critical over matches like West Brom, Coventry and Leicester.
We should also enjoy the good performances that come our way, the problem for MFC is that the home ones have been generally poor and that is where the bulk of supporters see the team.
Third in the table is OK. The season has panned out much as I expected, too good for most of the teams but questions when we play some of the better teams.
Neil M, wrote ‘I can’t wait for T’. You posted this at 9.53; you’ve still got 11’s and Lunch before T. Why so excited? What are you having?
As for Halifap’s post. I’m very annoyed as yet again someone else has put my thoughts much more lucidly down in print. Couldn’t agree more Halifaxp.
Looking forward to Saturday, hope we get a half decent atmosphere, its up to us fans to do that.
Not coming from or ever living in Teesside I often hear much nonsense talked about the town and club. But one thing always gets mentioned, how quite the crowd can be. Especially when things are not quite going right.
I remember Alan Curbishly being slightly peeved that so many Charlton fans were making the journey to the Riverside for the FA Cup quarter final. In his experience he preferred it when there was little away support to wake up the home fans and create an atmosphere that the home team could build off. And he’s right, the atmosphere at the home games this year has been poor if not a little eerie. I understand there are reasons for this but yesterday is gone.
Come on lets look to the future, we’ve only just begun.
Let’s have that extra pint, let’s loose some inhibitions and get right behind the lads. If we want the riverside to be a fortress then the fans have a part to play too.
C’mon Boro
**AV Writes: Oh no! The first snippet of a Christmas record. You can cut that out.
Ian Ian Ian!
Please do not mention the devil from the East Midlands. And if you have to, please don’t bring up them drubbing us. Give me a break!!
The 21st of November is getting closer and I’m filled with nerves. On the morning of the game it will be hard to acknowledge there’s a world out side the window. As it’s a world of dread and fear. I dream that it’s us that wins 4-0. I’ll thank gods it’s them instead of us.
**AV writes: LOL.
Get back to work you lot, rather than plundering lines from charity hit singles...
Personally, I am now going to adopt a more optimistic outlook on Boro life. We WILL go up this season. Next year we can look forward to playing the big boys again.
In 10 months' time I'll wake up, it's a Chelsea morning!
I see the ra-ra's are at it again, blaming the poor home performances on the 'negative army'.
Home performances have been poor for many years, going back to the last few years of Robbo's reign, and the supporters have stuck with the club. It is only recently they are showing dissent, and justifiably so.
Enough is enough. If the club want people to watch them, give us something other than dross to watch.
SmogontheTyne
Many apologies, I hope you are feeling better.
After this post I make that about 175 to go to the 35,000.
Ernest (October 15 12:22)
Maybe that's what Alan Smith means in his interview in today's Gazette about with the somewhat cryptic 'approaching the Watford game differently and hoping the fans understand'.
I took a lot of what Mr. Smith said about a new relationship with the fans with a pinch of salt - I'll trust the actions not the words.
But I did appreciate his direct statements about the unacceptability of some recent defeats and draws that felt like it, the 'disaster' of relegation and the out and out, uncaveated statement about promotion and what's required.
That's the first time I've seen him described as some sort of Boro 'football supremo'. The club's description, Mr. Smith's or The Gazette's estimation, AV?
**AV writes: "experienced yet untainted by relegation, semi-detached part-school master, part-coaching guru, motivational speaker, mentor and sounding board" doesn't really scan.
Ernie Baby, you need to relax, with logs by the fire and gifts by the tree, find time to rejoice in the good that you see.
I’m not having a go at anyone. I’m not blaming anyone. I’m just saying it can get quiet at the Riverside. As Dan Brown would say FACT. I know people support the club in different ways but I think there should be a good atmosphere on Saturday.
I didn’t realise that you couldn’t write anything critical of the fans, only criticisms of the club were allowed. Maybe you should get your own column.
halifaxp - best post I have read on here for a very very long time.
Pigment/Picture of Imagination!!?
Is that you (AV) making a cameo apperance in the center of the picture for the story "Smith urges united Boro front in promotion charge"?
Hoping we don't get stung by the hornets!!
smogonthetyne,
I will always defend the fans when I think it is merited. How many good home performances do you get off Boro in a season? Not many. Hence I feel the fans are justified in making their feelings known.
Acceptance of the mediocre will not serve to improve things. The club need to know that what they are serving up as football would fail the trade descriptions act.
Actually, if you check out the Come On Boro site, you'll find I DO have a column.
First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
without you by my side
But I spent so many nights
thinking how you did me wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on
and so you're back
from the premier league
I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to support
I know I will stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
and I'll survive
I will survive
It took all the strength I had
not to fall apart
kept trying hard to mend
the pieces of my broken heart
and I spent oh so many nights
just feeling sorry for myself
I used to cry
Now I hold my head up high
and you see me
somebody new
I'm not that chained up little person
still in love with you
and so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I'm saving all my support
for someone who's loving me
**AV writes: I'll suggest it to MeMarkPage. What with that, Do They Know Its Christmas and Love Will Tear Us Apart we might not scare them with our pre-match music but we'll confuse the hell out of them.
Do I get the feeling, as the Watford game slowly hoves into view after the international break, that we are all feeling just a little bit better about Boro's prospects for this season? I hope so.
And as for Rhys Walker possibly being jet lagged after his wasted journey to Australia and back, it's his own fault! Without wishing to be too critical of the present international rules, he had played in quite a number of Wales age-group sides (under 21's etc) but he chose to play for the ASHES LOSERS instead, now that he is an "adult". You pays your money and takes your choice.
Incidentally, if he is now Australian, and I say this without knowing his passport details, might he need a work permit? And how big is the percentage of games he has played for the full Australian team in the last few years (when he was playing for the Welsh junior teams)? Wouldn't that be a huge bite in the bum?
Maybe Geordie Lurker (where is he now?) might be firing off an e-mail to the Home Office as we speak.
Probably not many of us on here have played international sport. Club games maybe, but probably not at the elite level. However, would anyone on here who is NOT Australian want to play for Australia? Or if you were Scots, (a real Scot not a lupine, fence-hugging Irishman) really want to play for another country like, say, England?
It must be the same in reverse! Why would an Australian, if that is the true designation, want to play for Wales or any other country? It should be a question of heart. That should never change. You are what you are.
Where is that Home Office number.....
**AV writes: Rhys is definitely an Aussie but some of his family are really Welsh. And he has a passport so Lurker can save himself the hassle of four hours on the Home Office grassline. "If you want to make a mischievous or malicious call to cause inconvenience to a commercial or sport rival... press five now"
I agree. Halifaxp was one of the best post for a long time! I will re-read tomorrow - this is my Boro! Up the Boro!
Vickers!
Seriously, poor material. Lets talk about the Boro, not peoples personal fashion choices.
I guess you get this sort of material during World Cup Qualifying Week
The Vlas!
(Brisbane Australia)
Ernie my man, I know you have a column. I couldn’t really support the Boro from a far and not have noticed your column cropping up on Newsnow every week.
Just pulling your leg pal.
And for Ian Gill apology accepted. Let’s just tread carefully next month.
Are you excited by the Derby Co. game more than any other?