Home Sickness Strikes Again
HOME SICK Boro went down to a third successive defeat at the Riverside to a limited but hard-working and effective Watford side. Didn't they read the pre-match blog about cracking the Riverside riddle? Don't they know what to expect from visiting sides? Did they nod off during Alan Smith's powerpoint?
Shot-shy Boro squandered a string of good chances... there were two good saves, a disallowed goal, Lita nodded wide from close range, McMahon did a Geoff Hurst, there was one good penalty call and one dodgy one plus the usual quota of high, wide and handsome efforts from a side who are mentally fragile and really need to go on the couch with a good psychologist to get over this problem at home. It is now three games and 275 minutes since Aliadiere scored against Ipswich on September 12.
But we can't just blame the strikers. Their goal was largely self inflicted. In a jittery spell Boro caused problems for themselves at the back by failing to clear their lines in routine situations. Yeates at one point appeared to be dribbling towards his own goal before being dispossessed by a Watford man, Wheater looked shaky and twice St Ledger dithered over the ball and almost got mugged before the fatal weak tap into space that was scooped up by a suprised but alert opponent for the goal.
The bottom line is that Boro don't have the tactical nouse to unpick the massed defence of a well organised team that comes to the Riverside to park the bus, who pack the midfield, shackle Johnson and sit back and deny them the time or space to use their pace to get round behind them. Neither do they have either the brute force to batter a way through or the cutting edge from set-pieces... I lost count of the corners and free kicks we had and not once did their keeper have to make a save from one.
What is more worrying is that the home sickness will become a deep seated complex. After the Leicester game the gaffer growled at the crowd as he explained that the pressure of playing at the Riverside was becoming a noticeable debilitating factor. After this game he went on at greater length about it and the need of the players to overcome it but he did so with an with an air of helplessness. There is a danger here that we will talk ourselves into some kind of psychosomatic paralysis.
So three defeats in a row, three without a goal.... and yet amazingly we are still fourth after other results were relatively kind. And at least Danny Graham didn't score. That would have been another stick to the club with when we are already spoilt for choice. Derby on Tuesday. If Boro don't win it will be very, very difficult to hold back the wave of anger that will engulf the Riverside.
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DID any of the expats or part-timers outside the Tees broadcast area log in to the live blog from the match? If you did, did you find it useful? Entertaining? Confusing? A mildy diverting reason for not going to B&Q? Or Kaufhof for our Deutsche contingent (I don't know any Middle-east High Street brands.) And what can we do to improve it... don't say more frequent updates becuase our hands are tied legally on that one.
All feedback on this will be useful. I need to know if I am wasting my time.
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Anthony Vickers
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Not sure about there being hell on if we don't beat Derby. Unlike Leicester, the fans were placid during the game and after the whistle today. Maybe there's an air of resignation now attached to our consistently inefffectual home performances.
Well, what do you make of that? Hopefully without descending into a knee jerk:
1. The crowd was, I understand, announced as just short of 19,000. That was a surprise to many around me who thought 15,000 was nearer the mark.
2. Predictions will be shelved for the foreseeable future (pun only partly intended).
3. So we took off the left back when we were losing (no surprise there - maybe going to a back three and putting an extra forward on would have seemed a possibility) but to find Hoyte going to replace his young colleague and then, for some reason, shortly afterwards popping up on the right wing? Is there something going on here that has not been explained to the paying customer?
4. I agree that goals change matches and that if we had scored early in the game (we had chances to do that) we might have grown in confidence and gone on to win. But we didn't score. And was it about 14 or 15 corners? Any chance of a goal from a set piece, chaps?
5. We seemed more "up for it" in the second half than in the first. Surely it should be possible to get players "up" for a game from the start? "No, the boss didn't give a rousing speech before the start so we thought we would stroll about a bit for the first half. Mind you we had a right telling off in the changing room so decided to get properly stuck in for the second half..." Very professional.
6. There was a comment from around me at the final whistle. It was clear that some of the fans were booing. At the same time, our resident DJ put on some VERY loud music as the ref ended the game. The impression was that a decison had been taken to drown out any possible protest, and there was some anger around me over this. Certainly the music was entirely inappropriate with the mood of the supporters at that time.
7. If people are unhappy about the present state of play, it will get VERY ugly if we should lose against Derby County. And I doubt there will be nearly 19,000 there!
8. As I haven't seen the power point display that Alan Smith showed to the Press, could AV let the poor Paying Public know whether it appeared the plan was put into effect? Did it seem like a good plan but the players failed to apply it properly? Or was it doomed from the start? Surely it wasn't the sort of cunning plan in which Baldrick specialised?
9. Surprise was expressed near me that we conceded farily early on, rather than in the customary final 5 minutes or so. Views were divided on whether this was a sign of improvement.
10. I hope somebody at the club is concerned about how things currently seem. My optimism might not be long lived. Not a happy bunny. Will have to take it out on the real ale at the "Crippled Toad". Curses.
Old Gareth is in last chance saloon now, a defeat or even a draw on Tuesday and I reckon we'll have a new manager come next weekend.
I wil start this post by saying two things:
1) I like Gareth Southgate as a person;
2) I want Boro to win under Southgate.
However, it is becoming more and more disconcerting week on week. Another home defeat to a side no better than average, if that.
Newcastle find the goals at home, as do West Brom, Middlesbrough cannot. Our home record is becoming embarrasing now. Three defeats in a row and no goals is more than a blip and is nowhere near promotion form.
Our away record is good but we haven't beaten anyone you'd expect to be in the mix and it will drop off when we start to play better sides.
I just cannot see the evidence that we are going to get promoted under Gareth Southgate. The same thing seems to happen over and over again under his management.
I want us to win every game and will go on wanting this, to want otherwise would not be right and Gareth Southgate will stay onas long as were in touch of the top 6 anyway.
I cannot see us getting promoted this season or being successful under Gareth Southgate but I am not confident in Steve Gibson's ability to appoint a decent manager. He has turned down Ottmar Hitzfeld and Martin O'Neil and instead appointed novices ever time.
I think we simply have to face facts: we are going to be stuck in the Championship for a very long time. Gibson's money enabled us to be ok in spite of his poor managerial choices. Now the moneys gone we will be an average Championship side hoping for the playoffs in the years to come, and there is nothing us fans can do about it
Let me upset everyone,and say Wheater should be dropped. He never puts his body on the line. They scored because he backed off - AGAIN
Controversial Ooficials, a dumped Old Boy setting up the winner, no movement off the ball (a team full of Land Crabs!), didn't turn up for the 1st half, confusing Substitutions, at least we didn't concede in the dying minutes.
So what or who went wrong? Can't blame the fans (or at least the few that are actually still there), they even managed a rallying chant of "Come on Boro" as the players trudged off at half time looking more lost than ever.
It appears that belief and confidence with the players is in short supply, my concern is that their collective belief and confidence in Gareth and the coaching staff seems to be in even shorter supply.
Gibbo's gamble isn't paying off and lessons certainly have not or cannot now be learned, consequently refrains of "Sack the Board" rather than Carols could be the norm this Christmas!
No. The real ale did not dull the pain. And as each new person came into the pub, a whistlful look, a sad shake of the head said it all. It has got to the point where people ask "Are you still going to watch them?". And some are starting to snigger...
Would you keep a car that was firing on only two cylinders and has only one gear?? NO you'd get rid of it and buy something more reliable OR at the very least get the thing serviced!
You wouldn't continually drive it thinking it'll come good SOON!
We are beyond the service and need a new engine, gearbox and respray! The only trouble is our mechanic is too busy reading the Financial Times in the bog and worrying about his pension while the ham-fisted apprentice tinkers using his rusty spanners!
AV, your rolling-blog experiment was greatly appreciated! Keep it going as it is well worth the investment in your time and energy.
It is unique being able to share information that is not only relevant but sufficiently in-depth and interactive to make it a must for every Boro fan unable to make the game. It does need tweaking but on the whole, definitely a worthwhile project.
I think posters should refrain from using it for any reason other than to interact directly with you. I found the discussion about Boro World totally irrelevant and irritating. Hint, hint, chaps. ;)
Anyhow, a few of my posts were lost in cyberspace and I'm sure others had a similar problem but other than that, a great effort!
Thanks fella! We doing it again on Tuesday?
I can't for the life of me figure out why Southgate cannot motivate players to at least spend 90 minutes a week working.
Last time I looked, I'm putting in around 55 hours, and getting paid a damn site less. If I showed as much commitment to my job as some of the players do, I would be out on my ear, or at least have to go through training to spot my weaknesses. Now there's a thought!
Come on Boro, show you at least care on match day.
One other comment:
You're right - even though we are useless at home we are still joint 3rd and to be honest the top 2 are not running away with it yet. What a strange league indeed!!!
Poor home form for years-it's nothing new.
Fed up of excuses about opposition coming and 'parking the bus'. Most away teams do this wherever they go, not just at the Riverside. The difference is that other teams can handle those sort of tactics, but Boro cannot.
We have a poor manager, and young players. Our strongest midfield played yesterday, and it was proved to be not strong enough, not creative enough, to create sufficient chances for our 'strikers' to score from.
We have Wheater as our captain, and he is the wrong person for the armband. The only one out there who has the experience to do this job is O'Neill.
We were promised a stronger, more experiences squad by Gibson and co. What they gave us was a team largely built with academy players, who lack experience and leadership. None of them seem to be playing for the manager.
Yet another game where we didn't bother to start playing till the second half. Why do we always sit back and invite teams to attack us? Sooner or later we always concede, and then we're chasing the game.
We need a motivated team who attack from the first whistle. Southgate is not motivating the players, and the players are certainly not motivating the fans.
This was a very poor overall performance, and AV's sense that the lads aren't learning fast enough is entirely justified.
Here are some simple things for them to think urgently about:
1) Punting the ball upfield to small strikers still isn't getting any more sensible as these home games grind on;
2) Crosses from wide positions (including corners) are easier for defenders to get to if they are floated as high as many of ours are; whipped crosses a la Downing are much harder to defend;
3) It helps with throw-ins (also with relieving the pressure of opposition players running us down) if our lads run around urgently offering themselves, actively wanting the ball;
4) AJ was still out of position for the bulk of the match. As a left-footer, he'll always tend to drift inside. Against a five-man midfield (which seems to work too well for any visiting manager not to adopt it in the future) and with two men on him for much of the time, this makes it likely that we will end up giving the opposition the ball in just the area they would like it, the middle of the park, which is related to the next point;
5) We were sitting back and, without much of a struggle, conceding the centre of the park to the opposition again. People talk about the opposition parking the bus, but we are doing that ourselves, aren't we? (But our bus has been cut up into three bits!)
6) Unless there is a really good reason to do so, it should be pretty much a no-no for defenders to pass the ball on the ground across their own penalty area.
(And I know these are lessons they give to schoolboy footballers, but...
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.)
Come on, Boro. We must stuff Derby, and must stop Hulse from rubbing salt in the wound of his rejection of our offer in the transfer window!
We don't score goals from set pieces, we don't have effective tactical plans or the ability to change things and become more effective, and we don't make substitutions that drag victory from impending defeat... sack the fans!!!!
It hadn't crossed my mind that we'd lose at home to Watford but then again it shouldn't surprise me.
Still, I should count myself lucky that I'm unable to attend the Riverside but a couple of my family members back home are long-suffering season ticket holders - I mean how depressing it must be to be there week in week out - that's three successive home defeats, four from six without scoring and only victories against hopeless Ipswich and no-hopers Doncaster who have only have one win between them all season.
I despair at the thought of Alan Smith giving a Powerpoint presentation to the players shortly before the game with Southgate on hand to collect the nibbles at the end - Something is not working in the attempt to get the players on their game but I agree that we have the first genuine 'must win' game of the season against Derby in mid-week.
Regarding Helen's Matchday Live Experience - The earlier mentioned bathroom renovation project prevented me from joining in (though I nearly made it but my father-in-law sabotaged the attempt by cutting through one of the central heating pipes - but at least I learnt a few new german swear words).
Anyway, I've read through it in a slow-motion car crash kind of way and found your commentary text far superior to anything else on offer and gave a good matchday experience - It will probably take a few goes to get the posters educated in how to interact properly (listening to the radio whilst posting and complaining you are behind is not exactly being realistic) but i look forward to the next one.
I tend to sit near the Red Faction in the South West corner so I can escape quickly at the end of the match for the obligatory chunter on the A19 as I head towards Derby. There certainly wasnt much sound of protest at the end of the match where I was.
One of the benefits on going on your own is that you tend to listen to conversations around you. There was an air of resignation amongst the fans leaving, many chatting that things wouldn't change whilst Gate was in charge. There was very little anger.
There was much discussion about what on earth was going on with the Hoyte substitution.
One or two quick thoughts about the match.
Pre match Gate told us that we would play with width and within pace so within ten minutes we would Johnno and Yeates on their now customary wings. There was one point in the first half when the widest player on the left of the pitch was Yeates inside the centre circle.
We may as well do a Stoke and move the touchlines in 20 yards.
We were brighter in the first half than as against Leicester and West Brom, starting off a bit quicker. we then went back to our bad habits and drifted back to playing too deep. The risk is that any sloppy play gives the ball to the opposition in dangerous positions, the rest is history.
We had enough chances in the second half to get something out of the match but we were hurried in many aspects of the game and often snatched at opportunities
John Powls text me that 3rd home defeat in a row was 9 year record. My response is that it was a record so stop complaining.
Derby up next and there will be no surprises how they will be set up to play.
Luckily those around us are determined to keep us in touch. The danger we may face is that, Bristol City aside , our away games have been to teams well below us in the table. Our record against the better teams suggests we may struggle to get points on our trips there.
There is also the possibilty that teams will start setting up at home to prevent us space hoping we will implode.
AV - How did the experiment go on Saturday?
**AV writes: I'm waiting for feedback and some idea of numbers. Technically it is straightforward, I'm writing as I go anyway. The question is whether it is worth it in terms of bums on seats.
The side (as evidenced by our home form) and the manager (as evidenced by his penalty miss in '96) are clearly "mentally fragile." One of McClaren's boldest moves and possibly his most under-rated was to employ Bill Beswick as a psychologist and latterly as Assistant Manager.
Southgate has surrounded himself with a brother figure (Cooper) and now a father figure (Smith). It's not working, they are there to make Southgate feel better and not the team. We need someone to work on the psychology of the team and the individuals within it.
McClaren and Beswick gave us stability and success, I suspect we are back to the yo-yo years.
Driving the 90 mile trip home after a third home defeat in a row is bad enough, but listening to another ugly Radio Tees phone in just makes you want to find a high bridge.
It did make me think however, what I would have said myself, if I had my turn on live Radio to summarise yesterday's match.
For starters, I thought Wheater had a mare. He rarely got into the game and when he did he either lost the ball or wasted it. St. Leger is starting to outshine him, and in my opinion he needs to sort himself out. I do not believe he can lead a queue, never mind the rest of team, and he should be relieved of the Captain's responsibility. Perhaps then he can re-find his form.
We have two French players in the team, one is class and the other - isn't....
Another inept performance by the Officials. I am sure the Football League scour the country for the worst referee's and send them to the Riverside for brain training. I know, if I was a manager, I would be carpeted for that comment; but surely I am not the only one who has noticed. They were giving corners when they were goal kicks and goal kicks when they were corners, never mind all the other poor decisions.
Finally, to the manager's bizarre substitute decisions. I like most other fans was sat amongst the 'Southgate out' Brigade. Although I have wanted to back him, he does not make life easy for himself. Chasing the game for a goal, he brings on a right back and plays him at left back when we were crying out for Emnes to come on and add some pace to the attack by going 4-3-3. Then just to add insult to injury he brings Arca on who has the pace of a slug on a day trip to a lettuce leaf.
After getting all that off my chest, all I can say is roll on Tuesday night! Glutton for punishment me....
Forever Dormo's comment (9.22 Oct 17th) above about the crowd being nearer to 15,000 is illuminating. I text a mate (who 2 seasons ago decided to do something more productive and enjoyable on a Saturday afternoon) just after kick off that the atmosphere was poor as the crowd was no more than around 15,000 at best and the place was half empty. When I heard the announcement of the claimed attendance myself and others around me looked astonished.
Then just to confirm things loud music was played at the final whistle, no surely this was too surreal, Mark Page "persuaded" into becoming an Orwellian compere? At the Riverside yesterday I think I witnessed a "Big Brother" mentality with conspiracies of silence or misinformation aimed at controlling and suppressing information in an effort to "stifle" the "Revolting" supporters.
The free thought suppression began with Bernie and continued with the creation of "Radio Glee Club" (who yesterday evening ducked and side swiped direct questions from two callers over Gareths tenure before I switched off in disgust), where is it going to end? The obvious resolution would be to deliver on the pitch to unite everyone but that no longer seems to be the main MFC objective.
Gareth has called for strength of character and belief (yawn again), sad when he can't see that the tank's empty and running on fumes (reminds me of a quote about Executive stress some time ago "Just because I am Paranoiac does not mean they are not really persecuting me"). Just when we need it most it appears that accountability, responsibilty and trust are virtues that appear to be in very short supply in TS3. I could get very angry but I am past that now.
I accept that Boro are now re-entering a new Ameresque era, they say everything in life goes in circles, trouble is I know how this one ends!
A.V.
Is this what the powers that be have to resort to now as described by Forever Dormo above - bigging up the size of the crowd and turning up the volume at the end to drown out the booing.
Mr. Gibson, thanks for all you did, thanks for the league Cup. now please go and live as a tax exile in the Channel Islands and sell the club to someone with both money and ambition. If not then stop treating your loyal supporters as idiots, "no fans in Stockton", "small town in Europe" etc
Show them your commitment one more time fire Mr. Southgate and Mr. Lamb, get a tried and trusted manager, desperate times, require desperate remedies.
same old same old. Watford?? Are we at their level now? Seems like it - except they got a reasonable chance and scored while we just huffed and puffed.
Big question is where now? I can see the headline now 'Boro target Hulse hatrick!'
If GS can't get the team winning or at least not losing at home and SG is serious about promotion it is time for Gareth to go. If the players get the talks that GS gave after the match they will just see LOSER and not perform.
All this guff about why can't the team score at home when they do so well away is down to one thing GARETH SOUTHGATE and his tactical deficiencies, not inexperience. He has had 3 seasons he basically hasn't a clue.
A post elsewhere suggests Curbs will be available in November, all I can say is his record is better than GS on a shoestring. He had Darren Bent as top scorer in the premier league. Oh what a difference it would have been Darren Bent instead of Alves/Mido and Curbs in the dugout.
Ah Well see Derby won 3-0 and drew 0-0 last two games out it'll be tough on Tuesday. Clough junior is ruthless as his Dad. It could be goodnight Gareth. Just hope SG is doing something about a replacement and not just sitting on his hands looking shocked.
Couldn't attend the game on account of not being in the country, but the reports suggest Gareth's unique brand of "patient possession football" wasn’t a success. But then it never has been, perhaps due to an inability to retain possession. That requires passing accurately and moving into areas where the ball can be received. Simple things that seem to be beyond Gareth’s coaching staff.
Gareth’s supporters seem to be unusually silent, "not singing any more". I can’t blame them. The euphoria of the victory over Reading seems long ago. Once again Gareth shows that he doesn't have the first clue how to build on a good result. Remember Liverpool last year?
The reliance on Alan Smith as Gareth's "advisor" is yet another mistake. Alan really had only one successful season of management, after he inherited Steve Coppell's team. His team displayed an inability to score goals in the Premier League. Now where have I heard that before?
This adds yet another feature to Gareth's lack of preparation for his job. He didn't play much under top-class managers, except during his England appearances. He was a fringe player during Coppell's time at Palace. So he couldn't learn anything positive from what others did. Steve McClaren was the best club manager he played for. Gareth didn't get on with him, so probably didn't pay enough attention to what he did.
I still believe we will finish in, or near, the playoff positions. But I'm beginning to sympathise with those who don't think this season should run its course. Maybe this isn't best for the longer-term future of the club. An unconvincing win against Derby will lift the spirits, but those nagging doubts won't go away.
As much as I wanted Southgate to do well, because if he does it means Boro do well, I have now arrived at the point where I do not honestly believe that he, and his current back room staff, Powerpoint presentations and all, are good enough to get Boro out of the Championship.
We all know that the squad is (again) paper thin in terms of experience, but I and many others still believe we have enough to at least get into the top four.
But (there is always a but) without the tactical nouse required, and without players who are willing to work their socks off for the manager and his coaches, without a leader on the park who himself has tactical awareness, it is all doomed to fail.
I've just finished reading "Damned United", a novel (based on fact) that follows Cloughie’s 44 day reign (if you could call it that) as manager of Leeds United. Here was a team that had just won the old 1st Division the previous season, yet by the time Cloughie and Leeds eventually parted company, Leeds were lying 4th from bottom of the league.
It is well documented as to the reasons why Leeds fell from grace so quickly under Clough (at least it is for those of my generation, the 50+ brigade). Cloughie found himself in a job which he himself admitted he simply could not do.
He had enjoyed great success with Derby, but taking over Leeds after Don Revie was a mistake by gargantuan proportions. He soon discovered that even a man of his capabilities could not motivate the Leeds players.
He became devoid of any tactical will to instill into his new charges (not knowledge I might add) which in effect meant the Leeds players went out on the park with no idea of what they were supposed to be doing. Under Revie, each player would be given a dossier on opposing teams, containing their strengths, their weaknesses etc, such that Revie’s team knew exactly what they had to do in every game they played. But not under Clough.
Couple this with the fact that certain Leeds players poisoned the team against Clough, they didn’t perform and they lost games they would never have lost under Don Revie. Hence 44 days in the “Life of Brian”.
The point I am trying to make is here was a guy, with his partner Peter Taylor, who had the ability to motivate, seek out and apply the right tactics, man-manage and scout and buy players who they knew would do the job for the team. But he admitted that that particular job was too big for him, no matter what his ego thought, and he was relieved when he parted company with Leeds United.
Now I’m not saying that the same situation exists at Rockcliffe, far from it, maybe the players are being well managed, maybe they are motivated and maybe they are busting a gut for Southgate and co, but if this is so then it surely has to come down to tactical know how? Is the job just too big for him? Will he recognize it, and for the good of the tem, the club, the chairman and the fans, will he call it a day?
How much longer is Steve Gibson going to stand by and witness his prodigal son struggle on with no-one to turn to, how much longer will he sit and watch crowds dwindle to pre-Robbo levels?
We have seen the same thing happen time and again over the last 4 seasons, we are still being mugged by (allegedly) inferior opposition, so when will the “lessons be learnt”, when will the tactics, the team formations and the substitutions fit the job in hand against serial team bus parkers that visit the Riverside? When will we see the team play with confidence, score goals and visiting teams come to the Riverside in trepidation, not as now, in expectation that with the right tactics they know they can go away with something?
It is an overused cliché, but I really believe that Southgate and co have gone as far as they can, and they do not seem to know where to go next to solve this never ending problem of Boro’s home form, against teams that soak up pressure and kill us off when we make the inevitable mistake or lapse in concentration.
A solution has to be found, and I really do not believe that there is anyone currently at Boro who is capable in pinpointing and fixing the problem with the players available, or getting the best out of those players. Even today he is saying that the players must step up to the mark, well when are he and his staff going to step up to the mark?
My biggest fear, is that Boro will continue to throw points away which will inevitably push us to the outside of the promotion spots and condemn us to a long stay in the Championship. We cannot keep relying on other teams around us dropping points and allowing us to stay in touch.
I told myself at the beginning of this season that I would give it until November, well I’m early on that score, because I just cannot take any more miserable home results against teams we should be eating for breakfast (no offence to Watford or Leicester).
So…for me, this guy has now got to go, before it is too late to turn the tide. My patience has run out. We need an experienced man in charge who knows what to do with the assets at his disposal, someone who has been there, seen it, done it, and may just be ready to get back into football instead of wasting away on Show Sports Arabia…….Alan Curbishly.
Before you all start aiming you Kalashnikovs, take a look at his credentials, and in particular what he did for Charlton, a club with little money to spend, similar to where we are now. He had an eye for good players who didn’t cost the earth, and who were able to compete in the EPL as well as any Boro team during the same period until he took a sabbatical in 2006.
Charlton never recovered after his departure, and that in itself tells you how well he had that team gelling together on the park playing simple football (it’s a simple game), something that a succession of Charlton managers since have been unable to repeat.
So Alan…come on down by the Riverside my son and give us back our pride and passion.
Enjoyed the running commentary Helen - are you David Shayler in disguise? The seven minute delay is frustrating but then so is listening to the radio, watching it on TV, watching Boro generally for that matter.
Looked all over for somewhere to log in but failed - an idiot proof guide would be helpful. By far the best way of keeping track of the game while at work. Please do it again.
Funny...everytime GS DEMANDS a big effort we get beat.
Suggest he keeps his mouth shut and let actions speak for themselves because I as far as I can judge his tactics are simply a replay of last season. More square pegs and he quickly run out of ideas. Looks like the Championship managers have found him out just like the Premier League managers did.
By the way, we're only three points off mid table now and zero points from nine at home is not exactly automatic promotions form.
I watched a film the other day that got me thinking long & hard. In this (factually based) film, a manager takes over a club full of talented International football players, who have recently seen their previous manager depart to take on the poisoned chalice of the England team.
The new man has one small problem. The team do not rate him & they do not want him at the club. Through inept performances & a deliberate loss of discipline, they combine to produce a club record losing sequence to start the season. They have one common aim as a squad, to have the manager removed from his post as quickly as possible, by any means necessary.
44 days after being appointed to the role of Leeds Utd manager, Middlesbrough's own Brian Clough was sacked from his role as manager. For anyone who has not seen the film, "The Damned United" is well worth a watch.
The problem is that, like me, you may well sit down afterwards & ask yourself two questions:
a) Do the Boro squad rate Gareth Southgate ?
b) Do the Boro squad want Gareth Southgate to remain at the club ?
After watching some pretty inept performances lately, from a squad of players who have a lot more quality than the majority of their peers in this division. It certainly has to be a possibility that the answer to either or both questions could be "no".
It is entirely possible that the consensus of opinion on Mr Southgate's ability as a top class football manager, is not just consigned to the terraces of the Riverside Stadium.
Just for the record, I am not one of the habitual Southgate bashers. At the beginning of this season, I was perched firmly atop my fence. I was neither convinced by his prowess, nor eager to see him leave my beloved club. I was prepared to give the man the early part of this season, to prove to me one way or the other, whether he could inspire this team to promotion. It's quite simple - HE CAN'T !!
I thought the crowd looked a bit thin. My text to John was that it resembled a turkey farm on Xmas day. He responded he thought 'today would a be watermark'. It was low tide if it was.
Chris
I listened to the phone in as I sped down the A19 towads the A1. Gary was much more realistic than Ali but they also have the same problem as the Gazette. They cannot be overtly critical of MFC because they have to work and rely on contact with the club.
The best semi official medium is this very blog where AV can pose questions and let us provide the answers. A bit like those puzzles my kids used to do where they joined the numbers until a picture appeared.
It is also more refrained and analytical in its approach than some other message boards.
Nothing much to disagree with from the earlier posts.
One point I would like to make is that over a month ago it had been identified that we needed a strong tall physical forward. We brought one in over a month ago and he was injured immediately. He will not be available for over two months of a 3 month loan deal.
Questions I would like to ask
a]Why is he still here?
b]Why are we paying the wages of an injured player we dont own?
c]Why has he not been replaced? We still need a forward of this ilk. If we needed one a month ago the last two home games have clearly shown we are DESPERATE for a forward that can hold the ball up and bring other players into play and yet the club have done nothing about it.
I personally think the Live Blog will grow and grow as more and more Boro fans become aware of its existence.
Market it AV and "they will come." Whether there will be a "Field of Dreams" is another matter altogether.
I have been supporting GS all along. His a great chap and our most successful captain ever. But even I found it difficult to bear now (but still only sometimes).
I don't think SG will make any decisions as long as we are around play-off positions. Even Ipswich are still keeping their manager. But I can see the frustration growing up.
I agree with Werdermouth that the match against Derby will be the first must-win game. The team really need to deliver and perhaps Poggy shoud be put back to starting eleven for more experience. And give GON the captaincy, for a start.
But nothing is yet lost if we can find the way to play at home. Our away form being superb. But the home supporters need a shot in the arm!
AV, your live reporting was great. Of course I listened to radio as well but your work was greatly appreciated. Hope it continues on Tuesday. Up the Boro!
Hi Vic. Your running commentary on the game was great. You gave lots of interesting details that we can't get anywhere else. I hope you continue.
Personally I thought printing the comments of the others was a bit pointless. If people want to talk to each other during the match, then there are better sites where you can do it live, not with the 7 minute delay. It should be enough that you can read the questions and comments. I'm only interested in what you write.
My son usually has a game on a Saturday afternoon and we don't get in till about the start of the second half of Boro matches. Your comments are a great way of catching up on how the game is going.
Last Saturday we were watching Schalke live on the telly and keeping in touch with the Boro through your comments. So, like I said, I hope you continue with it.
**AV writes: I think you are right that I should be far more selective with comments. I think questions could be useful though. One very simple thing I was asked afterwards that would have maybe helped people visualise the action better was "which way were we kicking?" Questions usually prompt information.
AV
Have you thought that fans may prefer your superblog to Boroworld or Radio Tees? Even scarier is that they may prefer to go nowhere near the Riverside and that Boro play to empty stadiums and rely on your feed for matches.
I was going to ask what would happen about how you would deal with fans reactions when Boro score then realised I should stop talking tosh. You can take scenario planning too far.
It is like saying what would we do if NASA found life elsewhere in the universe. Or even more unlikely, Brownlee criticising the Boro.
Yeah, I agree that the questions can be useful. I just thought it might be enough if only you could read them and we can all read your answers.
I missed the new, super-interactive, as-it-happens thingy this week due to work but will be hooked up for the next one. Sounds like a God-send for the ex-pats.
Please keep on with it.
I have been watching the BBC one - a very different and in some ways illuminating experience.
For those who don't know, how would they find your "Live Boro match Blog"? I say this even though I couldn't use it at home games because, like the other twelve men and women, and a dog, even if things continue to take a turn for the worse, I am likely to be at the ground.
You might even get an "after game audience" if things haven't gone so badly that, as has been suggested above, supporters are looking for a high bridge.
Incidentally, thanks to Redcar Red at 11.01am above, and the following post by Mohd Abdullah. That you have confirmed my views fortifies me. Otherwise it would feel like an attack of the almost forgotten Boronoia.
Just wait for the official denials though.... "We only count the number of clicks on the turnstiles as supporters enter the stadium, and of course we wouldn't presume to intrude on our DJ's artistic independence in choosing the tracks he feels most apporopriate. He knows more about issues of music volume than us...."
**AV writes: The blog was accessed via a "click here" icon on the gazettelive.co.uk home page. I think a post-match Q&A webcast would be very lively and great fun but for me that is a very busy time, getting quotes from the players and the gaffer.
[If we needed one a month ago the last two home games have clearly shown we are DESPERATE for a forward that can hold the ball up and bring other players into play and yet the club have done nothing about it]
Assuming nothing is being done to bring in somene else (Vokes has been specualted) could it be that the rug has been pulled from under GS and he is being prevented from any more transfer activity until further notice, a la Lennie Lawerence in his final season.
AV - if your running commentary proves succesful you may end up having a "southgate effect" on potential riverside customers and detering them from going. You'll probably be banned from entering the ground by the MFC Stasi. Then where will you be? Round at Bernie's no doubt.
Well, my first game back at the Riverside....My conclusions were as follows.
1) The team looked rudderless, no leader on the pitch or in the dugout.
2) Our sacred cows were dreadful, AJ and wheater I felt were woeful for the full 90mins.
3) GS has no grasp of tactics whatsoever and his subs had little or no effect.
4) I thought the crowd were patient and fairly forgiving in that there was a clear appreciation for the effort the player put in - well most of them.
I was in the NE corner and there were many angry comments but only aimed at either the referee or a typically bad piece of defending or attacking.
What I thought was alarming was that their manager was on the touchline for the whole game - I saw GS there three times for a short period. I did not boo at either half or full time but I can understand why some of the long suffering fans felt the need to.
I spoke to two Watford fans on the way back into town, one of which had to endure the 4-1 a couple of seasons ago. They felt we had been robbed and it was a typical CCC smash and grab raid. I thought that Watford just looked solid and stuck to their task and tactics.
I wrote a while ago that we needed a spine to our team, so far I do not see one at all.
Upfront Lita played well but Aliadiere didn't.
Agree with the comment about dropping Wheater. Too many mistakes this year and we really miss Riggs at this level.
But too lightweight up front and equally flimsy in midfield. Teams are playing through us,
Southgate is clearly doing his best. It's just not good enough.
Just a word about the official attendance for the Watford match.
People around me were discusssing it before and during the match and there was unanimous agreement that it definitiely looked like the lowest attendance that any of us had witnessed at a league match at the Riverside - and certainly lower than the Leicester match crowd that had been widely reported as being, until Saturday, the lowest.
I've since seen it suggested that it is common practice to declare all season ticket sales as attendees even if they're in attendance or not. Does anyone know if there's any substance to that?
The consequences for reliability of the statistics would therefore be obvious. It would also be further indicator of the commercial nature of football as it would suggest that money paid carries more interest and weight, than numbers of bums actually occupying seats on matchdays.
What's the official position on attendances and are there reporting rules from the FA about how these should be measured and compiled?
AV
I live in Brisbane Australia, I'm not from England and have never been there.
I have been a committed Boro Supporter for 15 years. When I tell people who I support over here, they laugh at me as this country is predominantly made up of Chelsea,Man U and Arsenal Wannabe's who jump from bandwagon to bandwagon.
I chose Boro because I believed in what I saw when the club was buzzing with Rav/Juninho and when Gibson was still passionate, I believed in the fans and I believed in the town.
Last season I could at least watch BORO on TV, but now I listen to it each week (at 2am) via MFC.co.uk,
I have paid my mfc.co.uk membership every season, i have repeatedly purchased items from the clubs online store and have made a concerted effort to FINANCIALLY support our club, HOWEVER....
if Gareth Southgate is still in charge of this club come season end I will vote with my pocket and cease supporting the club financially. The inept performances that this Manager has delivered can no longer be tolerated by us, the fans. Think of the last time we really played the house down at home for the fans (the last i can recall was a 2-1 victory over Arsenal, how long ago was that?)
When you look at the ruthlessness of other clubs in the premiership and the difficult decisions they have made (e.g Tottenham and Ramos) it leaves me puzzled that we as a club, including Lamb and Gibson continue to tolerate this slow and torturous death. To think we made a special effort to defer Southgate from gaining his UEFA Pro Licence is laughable.
In my view, all players have an extra 20% to give, its just that Southgate cant get it out of them!
This result against Watford makes me ill!
In light of events at the Stadium of Light maybe we fans in the Red faction corner can take some of the blame.
There was a black and white beach ball bouncing around the fans. Maybe we should have thrown it on the pitch.
At one point it disappeared down the steps in the empty area between us and the Watford fans. A steward kindly brought it back and when he sat down the chorus 'youre getting sacked in the morning' went up.
Unbelievable though it may seem the stewards were laughing. Whether they found it funny or they were grinning at the thought of the poor lad being tortured by Lambs acolytes in the darkened dungeon he lies up in during the day is another matter.
Apparently, Southgate is feeling on top of the world or have I've misunderstood reports that he's set for a summit meeting with the board?
Anyway, having blamed the fans for the previous home performances the finger is now being pointed at the players.
He said: "We haven't performed well enough, we haven't done our jobs and right across the pitch we failed to win our individual battles. We have another tough home game on Tuesday and no matter how they feel about playing at home the players must perform."
Perhaps if we lose on Tuesday at home to a Derby side that have so far failed to win away he will have nowhere else to point - unless of course there is a deluge of beach balls.
OK, no doubt Gibson will point to the league position and say "blah, blah, blah... joint third... blah, blah, blah... top bloke" but I can't see how persisting with Gareth will give us the edge over half-a-dozen other clubs.
I think we've reached the point where the club needs a fresh start - somebody needs to come in and sweep away the cobwebs and wake up the players with time to assess what is needed before the January windows.
I'm afraid Southgate needs to take his beachball and head off to Seal Sands - "so long and thanks for all the fish" will perhaps be his parting words.
Whatever is being said, I think we should forget about the McClaren era and comparing it to what it was like in the early 00's.
Steve Mac had a net spend of £50m, aging squad, expensively assembled, the bubble was always going to burst, and it's unfortunate it has popped right in the face of GS.
GS has the potential to be a great boss, and I feel that we are right as a club to stick with him. He's been unfortunate in the transfer window not to get the target man he craved for. Caleb is injured, now whatever is said he's an option we missed on Saturday. But there's one thing which worries me, and thats our inability to attack.
Fullbacks - OVERLAP!
I don't know what Hoyte has done not to be picked as fullback, he overlaps, has pace, and two times out of 10 gets a ball in, far better than the ratio of the current fullback of Tony McMahon.
Adam Johnson - REALITY CHECK!
You are not as good as you make out. You are one footed, you can't play under pressure, and you can't pick out a pass even if our sponsors offered you a map.
O'Neill & Digard - IMMENSE!
Bossed the midfield on Saturday, you just could have done with a little help from fullbacks and Ali dropping in, but both of you didn't put a foot wrong and deserve praise. Digard only lost shape in last five mins when trying to run the show, hats off to him for trying.
David Wheater - HUTH!
Ok not HUTH, but HOOF. If you are going to clear it, at least do it properly.
Gareth Southgate - SUBS!
Three left backs in one game. Yeates was a gimme to take off, as all he did was run around like a headless chickend and moan to his fullback. I'd have liked you to give Emnes a run out maybe on the left cutting in, but hey, you see them in training and you should know whats required.
Fans will get behind you if you give it a go, and not be afraid to make BOLD decisions. Don't sit behind excuses about pressure and referees, you make your own luck in this game. You have the ability to take Boro not only to the top of this league but also to mid table comfort in the Premiership.
Whatever is said in this section and by the usual pessimistic fans, we are only 4pts from promotion place and lets be honest, we have been poor. God help the rest of the division WHEN we click!
Why does Southgate always try to blame the fans for his failures?
The fans are not to blame for his ineptitude.
Three years in charge and he seems to know less and less each game. Why continue to play Johnson on the wrong wing? Why put a right back on as left back and then move the left back to the right wing when we are chasing the game? Why leave Alliadiare on the pitch when he did nothing during the game?
The same rubbish on the pitch at home and the same rubbish spouted by Southgate after the game.
I have being going on a match by match basis this season as I said I would not renew why Southgate was still in charge of the team. Well after Saturday I am no longer spending my hard earned money on matches at the Riverside until Gibson sacks the worst manager that Boro have ever had.
C'Mon Boro!
Sorry AV didnt know where to get in. But us older fellows are a bit slow when it comes to new tricks. Give me the info on how to get in and will be onboard for Tuesday.
As for Saturdays game very frustrating result however it sounds like it was a decent game with many chances missed. We seemed to have played better but on the back of West Brom and the City game not what the doctor ordered.
Wheater is definatly not a Captain and needs this burden taken away from him. Give to GON if Pogi is not ready.
Once again strange subs and square pegs oh dear.
I’ve held off from posting to let my feelings subside and try and not embarrass myself as I might have done on Saturday. I know the linesman didn’t cost us the game but what a feckless wonder.
I think I am very close to my lowest ebb as a Boro fan. Cup Final defeats and relegation hurt, but on Saturday night I was starting to realise we are rubbish. I can’t see anyway out of this malaise. We are leaderless on the pitch, we have no oomph.
Everything about Saturday’s match was poor. That strange feeling of being in a half empty ground, hearing the players shouts, echoing around like lost souls looking for a way home.
Even at half time when as the players left their was an impromptu chorus of "c’mon boro’s". One last desperate impassioned plea for salvation. Like a fool I joined in. Hoping, desperately hoping there would be better to come. It didn’t.
Yes there will always be bad times, defeats, heartbreaks. But the last 12 months have been a constant depressing strain; flickering lights of hope are soon extinguished. I hope I’m wrong but I think this is terminal.
First sign hes in trouble is when you see out of work managers at the games. Anyone see any lately?
Maybe there are signs that even mild mannered Uncle Eric may be losing patience with the ability of Southgate & Co to get results.
In his article today he expressed his exasperation with the following comment: "Two weeks of detailed and thorough preparations were not enough to prevent another setback against Watford"
The problem is that Southgate has already expressed to Eric in his recent interview that once things went wrong he was unable to stop the momentum and turn things around.
I'm sure we're all awaiting Tuesday with interest - I get the feeling of the lull before the storm.
Which stage of grief are the fans now in? we've has the denial, the anger, the depression and is seems like fans have finally reached the acceptance phase, although the depression hasn't really left us.
Maybe that is how things will stay, with an air of hopeless resignation that we are stuck with what we've got, and join the list of mid table championship teams that "used to be good" a while ago...
Will a new manager change that? I'd love to see Curbishley, but with the people he would have above him seemingly happy to accept the status quo, I get the feeling his effectiveness would be limited.
As for the live blog - I liked it AV, and I'd love to see a little more personal opinion from you on the playing style, tactics and individual performances, rather than simple facts. Knowing who is and isn't playing well, (and why) is always hard to ascertain when you're not at the match even from Radio Tees.
I realise you can't be seen to be badmouthing particular players, but partisan opinions and emotions are so much more entertaining than bald facts alone.
I couldn’t join the on-line match-day experience from Helen until the last 10 minutes or so. I had no idea of the score till I got connected.
I have to say, AV, it was good to be able to catch up on what had been happening in the game and really to get the impression of what the match and atmosphere was. This latter element came out especially when you were interacting as people asked questions. If you are able to keep this service going, I’ll be there most times.
Obviously you are interested in how many people are logging in. Does the technology allow you to monitor the number of people connected, or do you rely on the fact that we will be submitting comments for you to know your effort isn’t in being vain? I quite like the idea there will be some room for a bit of (mostly relevant) banter. That’s your call I guess, to balance the amount of, as well as the content of, comments. I would have trust in your wise old journalistic head to manage that.
Not said anything about the current state of things …..I’m still having that awful sick at heart feeling . I really want GS to succeed. I like the man. I like what he gave the to the Boro as player and captain. I always want Boro to do well, so of course I want the incumbent manager to be successful.
There have been many posts over the months (years) that he is not maybe up for it yet. Perhaps what he needs is a proven, successful manager to act as his mentor. Someone to learn from about making the correct tactical decisions before and during a game, to learn what works as motivation and what doesn’t with different types of people.
I would much rather see him being given that kind of backing from SG and The Count, that they would bring in, I don’t know, a Guus Hiddink, a Claudio Ranieri, Martin Jol, even a George Graham …… somebody that he could learn from on the job (including during the game). If he has what it takes (and I suspect he has) , then in a year or two he should have started to pick up the habit of making the right decision at the right time without having to refer to his mentor.
While he is learning, because you have a top-class manager or coach behind him, the current team’s performance (and results) can improve.
If you ever want to emulate the old idea of dynasty (as Liverpool from Shankly through to Fagan) you have to have someone in at the start who has the class and the ability to create success. GS is on a hiding to nothing without the opportunity to work with someone he can seriously learn from and eventually take over from.
Enough of my inane ramblings for a Monday.
**AV writes: I can't tell from my end how many people are logged on but the peopel driving at Gazette Towers can. Th ebloke I need to speak to about the stats is on a day off so I don't know how many people followed live and how many 'watched again' later on so I am still in the dark again.
I think I'll try again tomorrow to get to grips more with the mechanics (I am also writing the Gazette blow-by-blow simultaneously) then really go for it in the away game at Preston when presumably there will be a bigger potential audience. Then we'll have to sit down and do some number-crunching over whether it is worth it.
I've always stood by Southgate but it's starting to look like we need something to happen to freshen up the place. A new start. Especially if we get a similar result against Derby tomorrow.
But one thing that strikes me is the luck we didn't get on Saturday.
- St. Ledger's goal seemed fair to me
- The push on St Ledger was far worse than the so called push his goal was disallowed for yet we didn't get the penalty
- McMahon's 30 yard shot went in from the replays I've seen
Now that could easily equate to two fair goals and a penalty resulting in a 3rd goal. 3-1 and we'd have been talking about a different thing altogether.
p.s. AV....I couldn't find your blow by blow account to follow so maybe a better link to advertise where to find it?
**AV writes: There was a button on the gazettelive.co.uk. I'll stick one on the blog front page as well tomorrow.
Totally agree with Stockton Red questions!!
AV - I remember you saying Eric was down Hurworth asking them very questions (about Folan) and the report the following day was Boro are assessing the injury.
Please ask again.
I don't care if Caleb has burnt his bridges with Hull and Phil Brown we need somebody else in now, get him off the wage bill and send him back.
Also AV to help relations and understanding with what is going on behind the scenes how about we the supporters put 2/3 questions a week to GS via the Gazette, would be good for both parties because the Gazette could then ask questions which they maybe to scared to? Could call it the the Fans BIG Q's or something!
**AV writes: There is no problem in questions you may want (and we are ceryainly not scared of asking anything), it is the answers that get people's backs up. I will ask if a regular fans question is something they will play ball with.
Again the excuses about Johnson having two men on him. That means there is another Boro player who is Unmarked. What is he doing, just standing there and watching?
Doesn't the management know how to manage? Do the coaches know how to coach? Do the players know how to play? I think NOT.
**AV writes: But what if the player unmarked is Arca? Or Joe Bennett? With the best will in the world neither are the creative force that Johnson is, or they would be getting man-marked too. Your position only makes sense if the team are a Man U or Chelsea where every loose man is a potential match-winner.
Poor old GS must be banging his head in frustration. We have four prolific strikers with an outstanding strike rate record. A creative midfield that used to carve other teams wide open. Rock solid defenders who used to be impregnable and always kept opposing teams out. Plus a keeper with more clean sheets than a Chinese laundry.
He is probably having sleepless nights wondering how he can get them motivated. Perhaps it is time for him to reach into the bottomless transfer kitty.
The truth is that if GS does not resign and is sacked SG will have to pay him compensation so do not expect GS to go in either way as the club has no money to waste.
Football managers get a good wage. As an industrial contractor so if one is a failure at the job then you receive the DCM (don't come on Monday) and it should apply to football managers as well as the rest of us.
Grove Hill wallah at 6.22pm - is that what we call irony?
Many of the supporters I have spoken to are almost hoping for a defeat against Derby. Not because they WANT the team to do badly - they want us to do well - but because they see a defeat as possibly resulting in a management change being made.
To summarise their views, if such a change is not made we will continue along the same path, with no discernible change in fortune. In other words, a short term piece of pain now in losing a fourth successive home game might result in long term gain for the club, with a motivational manager/coach put in position who can improve matters after that. While there is time to secure promotion this year rather than see our chances slip by.
Sometimes it might seem like politics. At the moment the Prime Minister is in charge, and although many of his backbenchers as well as cabinet colleagues have their reservations, at present there isn't a critical mass of opinion sufficient to get rid of him.
However once enough cabinet members and backbench MP's believe that in the forthcoming elections they are likely to lose their seats (and income) and that there would be a better chance of retaining those jewels under another leader, then suddenly cracks start to appear in the (cabinet) wall of unanimity. People start to become more openly critical.
Eventually the knives will be taken out from the drawers, to be carefully inserted between the shoulder blades of the man currently at the steering wheel. At that stage the end can come quickly.
The man in charge either sails onto the rocks or a mutiny takes place and the ship is either refloated or is steered away from danger. Of course if you wait too long, so it is no longer possible to avoid the rocks, the mutiny becomes pointless because you are all destined to drown with the ship.
At present there is a depression about the Riverside. We really need to go up this season, yet we know we are playing very poorly at home and that good away form cannot paper over cracks so large.
This might seem very odd to a spectator who is able to attend only away games in which we have been largely successful. But to those who see how we perform at the Riverside, it will not seem strange at all. If only I knew how to spell schizophrenic. We have GOT to get it right tomorrow. The Fat Lady is currently polishing her Sabatiers and it could get gory.
On a lighter note (!) I today met a lad who, whilst disgusted with the performance, at least benefitted from it as he got 8 to 1 odds for predicting a 0-1 win to Watford. He will hopefully be posting a prediction for the next game.....
A MOM performance AV - great work on the live match simulcast. The prospect of awakening from my slumber early Sat mornings (7a) will be brighter w/ this personalised coverage. The clues from JC to unlock reliable streaming audio of Ali/Gary was another added benefit.
Thanks much!
Sounds a cool idea your live (delayed by 7 seconds)transmission AV.. great for ex pats. Remember they said Sky Sports Saturday or rather the Jeff Stelling show would never catch on, and look at the imitators now!
Still hurting from Saturday's defeat at the hands of Watford, but I shouldn't have been surprised. Agree with most of the comments above. Wheater is so poor at the moment he really does need to be dropped, or stripped of captain role, it just isn't working. Maybe Gareth will grow a spine and make some tough decisions.
Johnson isn't the same player at home which leads me to believe that he isn't the player he thinks he is. Just to be controversial - if we sold him for a fat fee in January, do you really think all our hopes of promotion will disappear? What if we had a replacement lined up? (Oh no, not another Southgate punt on an unknown player!).
The fans were superb on Saturday, much better than Southgate deserves, but he's a lucky man (and so are we) that we are just four points off top ... yet just three from mid table obscurity. If we don't find that elusive win tomorrow, I know which way we are firmly heading....
The importance of tomorrow's game should not be underestimated - also it's probably worth noting that none of the top ten are playing against each other tomorrow.
So the worse case scenario is we could see Boro in 10th place and seven points adrift of automatic promotion by this time tomorrow.
However, the best case scenario is that we could be sitting in 3rd place one point behind the automatic promotion spots with a three point cushion below us.
I was also thinking about when I last remembered watching Boro lose three successive home games - It was at Ayresome Park back in the early eighties when we lost them all 4-1 and I think I even recall us being 4-0 down after 20 minutes in the third game against Grimsby (incidentally I looked up the attendance for that game in the old Div 2 and it was just 5,900).
Luckily education saved me from further punishment as I headed off to university to discover more interesting in the next few years to distract me from following Boro's slow slide into oblivion.
So things have yet to sink to the depths reached shortly before the arrival of Steve Gibson, but we shouldn't be complacent - Tomorrow may well decide Southgate's fate as even SG must have tipping point.
**AV writes: Derby is as "must win" as they come. Four home defeats on the bounce would surely be completely unacceptable by any conceivable measure. It would be all but impossible to hold the crowd together after that.
Good grief chaps...! How many consecutive AWAY defeats to the end of last season? Thirteen was it? And if we then closely follow that up with four consecutive HOME defeats? Too horrible to contemplate.
Let's hope it doesn't happen (even if, for reasons posted earlier, some might prefer the defeat in order to bring the boil to a head that can be lanced).
Too nervous to go to bed.
Most derby fans would take a point if offered now. Their view is that they are not good enough defensively to park the bus and will tend to hold a relatively high line.
It may give us a chance to get at their back four but we will need to start quickly and play with width. Compress the play and allowing them to settle would suit the likes of Robbie Savage down to the ground. A midfield dogfight would be just his cup of earl grey.
One suspects a midfield of Digard and Williams flanked by O'Neill and Johnson. maybe a bit one paced in the middle.
And dont forget Derby havent won away from home yet. Now there is a thought.
AV, EVERY player in the team SHOULD be a potential match-winner, else why play them?
At the end of the day, the team is picked by Southgate, managed by Southgate, coached by him and the coaches HE has picked. If players do not have the basics skills, they shouldn't be on the pitch.
You play the ball to the man in space, not someone who is marked up or has two men on him. Once he gets the ball, it's up to him to utilise it effectively, either by moving it forward, or moving it to another Boro player.
We need people to give good movement off the ball, moving into space, away from their markers, and being in a position to receive the ball. Our passing needs to improve. We give too many balls away to the opposition, putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Ernest
Many a time I have praised Arsenal and their football even if their manager is myopic in the extreme.
Their passing is a joy to behold but most of it is short, simple balls into space. They 'know' their colleagues will be running into that space and so it goes on.
We are Arsenal Lite and the bit we are Lite on is the passing and movement!
A long, long time ago I recall seeing Boro play the classic Notts Forest side at Ayresome.
All the talk before the game was about marking their stand-out left winger, John Robertson, out of the game and stifling their main source of supply. That tactic proved very successful - as regards Roberston. He was double marked or more and never got a kick.
But he and Clough senior were savvy enough to know what was coming and how to deal with it. Robertson wandered all over the field without the ball and took his markers with him.
Meanwhile, Forest's other, less gifted players revelled in the freedom and Forest still won at a canter. More than one way to skin a cat, if you know what you're doing.
I hope someone at Hurworth recorded the Leeds/Norwich game last evening for Mr. Southgate and his coaches to watch.
There were many items of interest - including, look at where Sam Vokes has gone on loan - but the two I'd want them to pay particular attention to are Simon Grayson's object lesson in how to make a (positively) game changing substitution and how to switch to a 'Plan B' in-game when 'Plan A' isn't working.
Werdermouth -
Memory tells me that Grimsby game ended 5-1. I can still recall the hollow laughter at the fifth...
But I always thought it was the season opener not the third one in? Also was that our relegation year to the old old third division? Mostly my memory of that time is the filthy weather whenever we played Notts County at home. Happy days..
Ian Gill -
Surely Digard and GON would be a more combative midfield to counter Savage. And play pace on the wings to try and go around them. I doubt we have the attitude or muscle to go through them. We certainly don't have the guile. Though I suspect Southgate will put Arca in there. Probably because there's a 'Y' in the day. Or something.
**AV writes: The year playground wit alleged that Boro had changed the Ayresome Park phone number to 414141 was 1982/83 and the first three games were Burnley, Fulham and then Grimsby. They stayed up that year and went down the next.
Ernest Oglesb, I am afraid that you might be right! If the player next to Johnno is not good enough then our squad is poor. I mean we don't have (or have had) money to improve. So the blame is not only on GS.
So I fear our problems are deeper than a change in management. I still wish Gs all the best and hope the PLAYERS respond - they are on their own after crossing the white line.
Today's match is - as said earlier - a must win game. Up the Boro!
David - Re the concern over not being able to afford to sack GS, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Gibson could remove GS from his post and continue to pay his salary until he finds alternative employment or his contract expires, that way the club isn't faced with forking out a lump sum, although it is effectively one more salary on the books. I believe this is what happened when Robbo was sacked.
So whether or not you believe he should be sacked I doubt money will be a deciding factor and lets face it if we loose tonight Gibson couldn't afford NOT to sack GS as the backlash will be huge.
AV, Are you going to do the virtual reporting again?
If so being sat in Derby will be an intriguing evening listening to radio Tees and Derby whilst blogging at the same time.
**AV writes: Yes, I think I'll give it another test run. There were 500 plus used the service last time. From little acorns...
John said:
"But one thing that strikes me is the luck we didn't get on Saturday."
The great Barry Venison once said (while he was wearing his intellectual glasses): "You don't get luck purely by chance". Lot of truth in that (I think).
As if I wasn’t suicidal enough at the thought of losing to another East Midlands club. Powlininho goes and brings up another drubbing at the hands of Nottingham Bl@@dy Forest.
For the love of Juninho, please leave it out!
As for tonight, I can’t make it but will be at Deepdale on Saturday, so I know which game I would prefer us to lose. Only joking, Six points and five goals and two clean sheets. Now hang on that sounds more like a joke.
C’mon Boro. Last chance saloon time I think.
Croydon Boro
I agree with Digard and O'Neill with two players wide. We need Savage to be chasing shadows not charging about a congested midfield making a nuisance of himself. The line up I mentioned is what I think Gate may do not my preferred line up.
Derby will give us more of a chance than Leicester and Watford because they are not as strong defensively as those two teams, they also defend a higher line. Give them a chance by starting slowly, compressing the play and defending too deeply ourselves and Derby will grow into the task and give themselves something to hold on to.
Then you will see Boro's nerves start showing.
Wow, this is like reading fiction. Boro win at home (at last) and Southgate is relieved of his position with immediate effect.
I came in from work (5 hours behind in the US) dreading looking up the result only to find the mighty Boro won 2-0. I read this on sportinglife.com before switching to mfc.co.uk.
Well you can imagine my surprise when sportinglife mentioned nothing, only to be greeted by a headline a plethora of Boro supporters have been hoping for, for a long time.
I do feel sorry for a certain Mr. Southgate, but was very dissapointed in him when he said "judge me on this season. This is my team", only for BORO to get relegated and him not doing the honorable thing in resigning. That really turned me against him.
Well, now for a new start. Please Sir Steve, get us a manager that knows what he is doing, not someone on work experience. A manager that knows how to change a match with substitutions will be a start.
Fiction?, or just a good dream?
Come on Boro!