Rewind The Week That Never Was
THAT was the week that never was...
So, we are up and running again after a frustrating spell abandoned in a layby on the information super-highway, silenced by circumstance at the worst possible time. My deadline day blog was a sad and lonely affair. Everyone knew it was on and there would be beer and everything but no-one turned up, a bit like Afonso's leaving do.
But we have time to make up. Here's what I would have said.
Where's the money gone?
We've spent it. All of it. All the TV money, all the gate income and much more besides -
was spent and it still didn't cover the wage bill. Transfer fees were extra and the tab for the shortfall created the toxic debt (which stood at a reported high-water mark of £93m less than a year ago) - debt either directly to Steve Gibson himself or to banks with the chairman and his companies acting as guarantors.
Most of the dosh went on players. Loads of them, all the players the fans demanded, the big names, the internationals, the foreign Fancy Dans we saw on YouTube, and all on big fees and/or massive wages - and we never got a penny back to fund their replacements when we sold them - Maccarone, Ugo, Viduka, Southgate, Zenden et al. That failure to recoup and the need to borrow more to replace them added to the growing deficit - but we all demanded more.
And the dosh went on building the structure of a new club light-year away from the ramshackle outfit at Ayresome Park, a club with a new ground, state of the art training facilities, a highly respected academy that has churned out first team players and provided internationals at every level, and on a community initiative that runs education and inclusion projects in some of the most economically deprived areas in the country, an added extra that does little for the team but everything to reinforce the precious organic link between the club and the community.
And the cash was splashed on chasing the dream. It is easy to slag off the powers that be for running up debts with wild abandon but maxing out Gibbo's plastic paid for three trips to Wembley, it paid for Juninho, Ravanelli, Ince, Gascoigne, Boksic, Yakubu, Alves and all the usual suspects and it paid for Steve McClaren's highly paid off the peg team that made history and won silver at Cardiff and went close again at Eindhoven after a still barely believable European adventure.
It was a golden age and not one Boro fan, not even the congenitally grumpy, would change it for the world. Neither, if they really admitted it, would they trade it for the humdrum mid-table grind of Bolton or Fulham or any of the other clubs we are now supposed to suddenly envy... or Stoke, no matter how many of our millstones they buy.
But now it is time to pay the bills and that is why the trophy players were cashed in. Lamby admitted in a retrospective statement of the obvious through lips prised open with a post-deadline crowbar that the loss of income after relegation forced Boro's hand and prompted a major refinancing that revolved around slashing debt and wages through player sales. The £20m plus raised by the exit of Downing, Huth, Tuncay and Alves went to pay the banks.
The recent radical turn to actually selling key players for a hefty profit - Downing and Tuncay especially on that front - is a painful but necessary development if the club wishes to stabilise and regroup successfully.
And if it hadn't been done - and this is the real bottom line - Boro may not have got through the season intact. If the agreed debt reductions had not been achieved Boro would have been in breach of banking covenants and the creditors could have called in the administrators to get their cash back. That would have meant a fatal point deduction and the exit of far more players.
For the foreseeable future we will need to use loans, frees and the bargain bin to plug the gaps and accept that our newly lowered wage ceiling will prevent us signing many World Cup winners, household names or 20 goal a season international hitmen - or even Rob Hulse.
We are not unique in that. Doom-mongers (*puts up hand sheepishly*) have been saying for years that the crazed Premier League spending frenzy was unsustainable and sooner or later a club was going to go belly-up because they over reached. Such voices have been shouted down by the intoxicated who have readjusted their blindfold and urged their precarious clubs to raise their credit limit and smash the transfer record again and again without the slightest concern for financial reality.
But the financial landscape has changed drastically. Credit is now hard to get and very expensive. Ask anyone trying to get a mortgage. And the bigger the sum being borrowed the more punitive the charges, tighter the payment schedules and steeper the penalties for defaulting. Clubs asking for loans or have existing overdrafts rescheduled are being told to slash debts dramatically or face being taken over by the banks.
Portsmouth have admitted twice almost going under during the summer. Peter Storrie revealed the club's summer fire sale was to slash £60m in debt and to repay a £36m loan to Standard Bank due this week.
"I don't want to talk about what would have happened. I want to talk about the future. It isn't a gamble. It simply had to be done. The most important thing for us was to keep Portsmouth Football Club afloat. Because of the credit crunch, our previous owner felt that he had to sell the club. It is a situation that could happen to several clubs.
"We had the assets to be able to adjust to that. The money from selling players has gone to the banks and so has the TV income. We have managed to get the payroll down to a sensible level. People should give us a bit more credit for doing what we've done, rather than just shutting up shop."
West Ham were also close to going to the wall. Already in a mess after Iceland went bust - the country, not Kerry Katona's wholesale party snack supplier - the Hammers' losses last season put them in breach of their credit terms and only the goodwill of the banks prevented administration.
They lost £37.4m for the year ending 2008 which they covered by more borrowing to push their net liabilities over £100m. They too embarked on a drastic series of cuts and sold £12m worth of players to pay debts but still broke their banking covenants. That meant the five banks that had funded emergency loans of more than £20m just to pay their bills and keep trading after the Iceland implosion could have demanded immediate repayment - a move that would have plunged them immediately into administration and condemned them to a ten point penalty and relegation.
While we've been down I received the annual pre-season Equifax accountants credit score index for the Premier League clubs (I am on some fascinatingly dry mailing lists) and it does not make good reading.
Ten clubs, including many who fans often insist we should "be more like" - Fulham, Villa, Portsmouth, Everton, Chelsea, Bolton, Wigan, Hull, Stoke and Burnley - are now technically insolvent and have liabilities that outweigh their assets and income and so find themselves, like West Ham, dependent on the confidence and indulgence of the bankers. If they look like going down - and hence having their income halved - if could prompt their money men to take drastic action to take their cash out first.
Elsewhere in the list Liverpool have hauled themselves out of that category by an expensive summer refinancing and Manchester United, Arsenal and Spurs all have high debt levels but the banks are happy to support their continued borrowing because they have strong revenues.
Hull (spend, spend, spend on fees and wages.... £12m invested in Jimmy Bullard alone) are judged to be at most risk and have a credit rating of ZERO out of 100. Portsmouth are still seen as very vulnerable with a credit rating of just 2 along with Stoke, Burnley and Wigan who do not have the income to meet their debts if they go down.
Boro's controlled but drastic debt cutting approach has won some praise in the press but has not gone down well with fans grown used to lavish spending.
Tough. We have to wake up to the reality. No amount of anguished wailing will change club's direction. It is not a whim. Or pique. Or profit taking.... there is no profit to take. And unless some billionaire with a Boro tattoo on his bum turns up with a magic chequebook there really is no alternative.
ALVES has left the building... a £13m PR stunt that turned sour. They thought they were buying a new Juninho with a built in bums on seats guarantee that could electrify the team and galvanise the crowd. It turned out they were buying the Brazilian Missimo Maccarone, a player who looked good if only you squinted but who failed to deliver and who was an unmitigated financial disaster.
We all wanted to sign him because he looked great on YouTube but his signing was ill researched, over-priced, came with a red tape nightmare and ultimately the money could have been better spent on James Beattie and creative midfielder.
Those who want to use him as a stick to beat Southgate with are free to do so... he wasn't used right, he wasn't managed right, he was allowed to drift and become demotivated etc. But at the end of the day he had plenty of chances on the pitch to show what he could so - and missed them all. He was physically weak - and his mental attitude can be clearly seen in that he would rather go and play in a glorified rich mans' hobby league in a football backwater than prove himself in a competitive one.
Meanwhile, the blog may have been down but I've been running a truncated service on Untypical Boro's Twitter, the trendy celebrity micro-social network where me and my A-list bessies like Stephen Fry, Jonno Ross and Darren Bent hang out.
Here's a things of interest that I've linked to over the last week.
Which current Boro hero - described as "Tall, slim, speedy, scores goals... sort of van Basten" - has been put in the spotlight by the big club schoolkid slave trade row?
"This is British Pathe News at Ayresome Park...." some fantastic grainy black and white news reel footage of George Camsell and the lads in training back in 1936
And here's a brilliant DIY lower league cyber scouting tool. Simply put in the qualities and position you are looking for and a division to search in and it ranks all the players that match. Try putting in "striker," "workrate" and "Championship" and see who it recommends....
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Anthony Vickers
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To be fair there are similarities between Aliadiere and Van Basten - they both have one head, two legs, two arms, and both have been signed to English PL clubs. Or to put it another way, they have both dabbled with painting, it's just that one is a painter and decorator and the other was a da Vinci. You work out which.....
Thank God for a reasoned point of view.
Steve Gibson is a very astute businessman. We all know how he saved the Boro from going to the wall. After a period of reflection, it could well be argued that he has saved them again.
With the glut of teams being either threatened with or going into administration, perhaps we should be thankful. The team is sitting well placed for a promotion chance, plus it is on a fairly sound financial footing.
Boro challenging for promotion is infinitely better than sitting at the bottom of the league with a minus points total.
Forever the leveller AV. One of your best yet.
Liked your little dig at the scouting "system" we have at the club - ... but his signing was ill researched...
**AV writes: Maybe that was unfair... YouTube is a fantastic scouting tool.
You are banging your head against a brick wall AV. Balance, reason, context, facts... these things have no place in the mentality of the short-sighted Boro fan.
Let's face it, most of the defiantly ignorant on Teesside prefer it the other way. They want rumour, conspiracy, stupidity. They want to think Gibson is deliberately running the club down in some mysterious scam. They want to believe we are secretly loaded but won't spend for some sinister reason. They want to believe Gibson is fending off a queue of billionaires just to be pigheaded.
Sometimes I despair at exactly how thick the average Boro supporter can be.
**AV writes: Ouch. Take cover, it's going to explode.
Really good article and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. However, in response to tees exile, the fans have every right to be annoyed as Mr Gibson still went on a radio show and stated "we will have a stronger squad at the end of the transfer window than the one that went down". He also asked for "blind faith".
The fact is that the fans have been misled. I can understand why he did it. SG obviously believed that if he admitted finances were in a dire state and that we had no money to spend, our season ticket sales would take a hammering. He must have reasoned that this would put the club in worse debt and make securing Boro's future even more difficult.
However I think he was wrong.Thousands of Boro fans will now never believe a word Steve Gibson speaks. It is understandable that fans have suspicions and theories and these stem solely from the actual truth being withheld from them.
If the club had been honest and had told people the truth i feel that people would understand. Even the fan who moans about the Boro and appears overly negative obviously cares enough to get on here and write in the first place. That said, an honest approach, I believe, would not have dented season ticket sales, in fact it would have united us as a town and a football club.
Instead SG now has to accept the condemnation of Boro fans who feel they have been lied to and for that reason obstinately refuse to renew their season tickets despite loving Boro and deep down wanting to be there.
AV you mention the work in the community and it is so important that this work happens. It is something the club should be exceptionally proud of. But to do all that ground work, to make that difference to the town and community and then follow it up by alienating people by hiding the truth is madness.
As they say honesty is always the best policy.
**AV writes: I think you are right that had SG outlined the severity of the situation that Boro most fans would have rallied around - but not all. There would have been some in outright hysteria demanding blood when unity was perhaps more important. Plus maybe banks would have been less likely to extend credit lines or demanded more restrictive covenents, maybe other clubs would have had our eyes out with player sales and sponsors would have shied away.
Whatever the politics of the original broadcast I think another state of the nation statement from the top outlining honestly exactly where we are - and more importantly where we are going - may help build bridges. This is cruciual season for the club and we need to be singing from the same hymn sheet going into it.
Wow! Welcome back! A most reasoned assessment of Boro's crucial summer stance, going against the tidal wave of thinking of some (majority??) of Boro's fans.
I said a couple of blogs ago, before it all came crashing down, that now was the time for fans to regather the mentality of collective backing that we have been missing for so long. Without it, any proposed promotion campaign is fatally flawed before we have even begun.
Yes, it would have been good to have had some honesty form the club right from the clang of the tolling relegation bell in May, but we are were we are. All sceptical fans should now accept that saving the club is far more important at this crucial cash strapped time, and read carefully AV's stunningly honest piece - then get down to The Riverside on Saturday and take it as a fresh start to support the team all the way to ... wherever it takes us this time.
It may not lead all the way to Eindhoven any time soon, but at least we will have a club to support in the next few years, unlike some, who may actually see their own club fall when the financial bell starts to toll.
Good shout Tees Exile. However, without the "masses" we wouldn't have such entertaining blogs would we?
AV - I've just scouted our next signings!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vEz4e2qCT0
**AV writes: I've said for years we need a midfield terrier with a bit of bite.
An interesting and timely article that gives us a perspective on the Gibson years in relation to other clubs
Yes we've had some successes but only once was it due to a consistent over-a-season team performance - the rest was down to riding our luck and improbable comebacks - the academy has been a relative success but did it just repackage local talent and focused on producing defenders and defensive midfielders and then was enhanced by industrial air induced left-footers.
But (yes there's always a but) ultimately it's the grey areas that always seem to keep me questioning if all is what it seems. Can Steve Gibson be both the astute business man and also the reckless gambler who signed the cheques for under-researched and over-priced and over-rated trophy signings?
At what point did we realise that Steve Gibson was not the fan pumping in his own money to bring success but just the guarantor for crippling debts that ultimately needed repaying? Or is the exercise been driven by the fluid flow of capital between going concerns to minimize taxes?
Also why did it make sense for Boro to always have to employ rookie managers who learnt on the job? why didn't SG ever want to employ the finished article? Did he fear loss of control?
I'm not anti-Gibson but neither am I pro-Gibson. It seems he's there because there is no alternative - which you said yourself - but it's hardly an endorsement and he's beginning to sound a bit aloof and out of touch with the supporters.
Maybe if the books are balanced and we don't win promotion then we will probably be facing a stint in the Championship on more meagre rations - then I believe it would be time for somebody else to have a go at running the club - especially if SG's ambition is limited to only spending income generated by the club.
Gibson and Lamb both need publicly flogging for being so reckless with the club's finances. There are a number of clubs STILL IN THE PREMIERSHIP with smaller grounds than us, lesser revenue, smaller fan base, and worse players.
The reason they are still there is that they have bought more prudently, and have proper managers who can get the best performances out of those players.
We need proper scouts and a proper manager. No more paying top dollar to attract has beens. Buy cheap, improve the players (proper manager needed for this) and sell at a profit.
Just a catalogue of failure A.V. Some of us knew the writing was on the wall during Robson's regime. There has been a catastrophic failure of management during Gibbo's tenure, and that's where the buck stops; you can't say that of course because of the Gazette's dependence on good relations with this idiosyncratic Boro organisation.
You do come over as the chosen vehicle of the club's reality check department; thereby setting yourself up as the messenger waiting to be shot.
You rightly point to the many, many misguided investments on crocked, failed and fading super star cash guzzellers, many in the Robson era. I was a voice in the wilderness at the time being howled down by the ultras.
What type of business model is it, that allows individuals to walk into managerial posts that are responsible for budgets/ investments totalling tens and tens of millions of pounds without any previous experience whatsoever - in possession of a complete blank CV?
Appointing rookie people to manage, in a situation that requires intelligence, experience, strength of character, and nous; i.e. a proven track record at the highest level, was crass in the extreme.
That the "best chairman in football" did it once was shocking but the second time of asking was just breathtakingly stupid, irresponsible and reckless. If I am guilty of hyperbole in this analysis it begs the question did Gibbo have an ulterior motive?
I thought he had learned his lesson when appointing somebody of more substance in the guise of Steve Mclaren, who proved his worth in my eyes, especially in the context of what ensued after his inevitable departure.
Don't shoot the messenger will be the cry; well don't shoot the paying Teesside public who were promised so much by the "Riverside Revolution", even a matter of 12 months ago when the "Prince of Darkness" himself pronounced that the season ahead would deliver great things because of the strength of the squad assembled. "Best ever" ? Some of us were'nt taken in by such shallow sentiments because of the authors "previous"
Quite a departure from the mindset of, "Teesside would get the team it deserved".
We are hardened to such capricious and careless talk from the club's worthies, they are the ones that are more fickle than the Teesside climate.
So it's about time we had some accountability for the ultra slow motion car crash that has seen the defective roller coaster hit the buffers that is the "credit crunch"
J'accuse Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb - the two dummies in the slow motion, car crash video.
**AV writes: The irony is that I used to be portrayed by the club as a dissident wrecker because I argued the spending model was reckless and unsustainable but now I'm seen as "on-message" even though my basic position hasn't changed.
AV, I think you make a valid point about how fans have demanded the big spending and have heaped unrealsitic expectation on the club when deep down we all knew we couldn't afford to break through the glass ceiling and be a really big club.
We now paying the price for trying to give the new post Juninho public what they wanted - big stars and success and new heroes. What was Alves other than a status symbol signing and TLF substitute?
But that is part and parcel of the Sky hype. Clubs either play the game and put their money on the table and chase the dream or they accept life in the shadows. There isn't really a middle way. We gave it a shot but have run out of chips.
Boro have always been an average provincial club whose natural position was the bottom half of the top division/promotion chasers in the second. It was crazy to spend £100m+ on pushing the club up six places or so and the sooner fans realise that the better.
We are now back where we probably belong an unless someone can find another £100m, another Steve Gibson or another (slower) route to build a succesful team we had better get used to it.
A drop of 13K fans between the home game against Lazio and the next one against Partizan Belgrade in the first UEFA Cup season. Second season UEFA Cup crowds of 14K, 13K, 9K for the qualifying and group stages then 24K, 25K, 24K (Basle) and, finally, a virtual full house against Steaua.
Boro fans want a Champions League-standard team on virtual League One crowds. Get real.
I’ve been a season ticket holder for nearly 20 years. I want to see Boro win.
I’m happy we’re in the right league for our size and support, and worry what would happen if we managed to go back up.
But I’m also confident in myself as a person and don’t see my support for my football team as an ego thing. Get rid of the chips off your collective shoulders; if you haven’t noticed please believe the truth that Stoke City are now a far bigger club than us – and far better supported.
The biggest mistake the recent history of the club was not to sign up Martin O'Neill as manager when Steve Gibson had the chance.
O'Neill was prefect for Boro, young and hungry for success - something he has certainly achieved Villa, they play great football since he took over and are constaintly high in the league.
Money wasn't the clincher for O'Neill, it was for him to install his own backroom team, something Gibson and Lamb didn't want. Ok so O'Neill only wanted to work only 3 or 4 days a week and let his backroom team do the training etc, so what...its better than a fulltime Southgate and Cooper.
Do you think Boro would have built solidly since McClaren left with O'Neill as manager? Yes of course we would have done... and probably be a top six team at this stage!
So, yes not appointing Martin O'Neill was probably the worst mistake in years by Gibson and Lamb.
Here we go, the "we are not worthy" brigade are putting their heads above the parapet to meekly cry that Boro are now an even smaller club in Europe.
This thesis is utter rubbish - are we not capable of competing at least against Stoke, Burnley, Wolves, Hull, Fulham, Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton or Portsmouth?
The extra income from another 10,000 fans will barely pay the wages of a couple of 'stars' these days - PL TV money is what makes a small club bigger - and it's how you use it what counts.
By all means balance the books but don't underate the power of what astute investment and a little nous and experience can achieve.
So don't be fooled into thinking that the league table equates to population size - Boro are in the Championship because they spent badly, were managed badly and played badly.
'There are a number of clubs STILL IN THE PREMIERSHIP with smaller grounds than us, lesser revenue, smaller fan base, and worse players.'
And many other relegated teams could say just the same, including the two who came down with us. It is also only a short-term case of when and not if the likes of Wigan, Blackburn, Hull, Stoke and the other also-rans depart the (increasingly boring and overrated)Premier League, to be replaced by bigger also-rans like us.
Tosh said....
"A catalogue of failure A.V. Some of us knew the writing was on the wall during Robson's regime. There has been a catastrophic failure of management during Gibbo's tenure."
You are well named because that is a load of Tosh!
Robbo's reign brought three Wembley trips, the best player I have ever seen in a Boro shirt and a new ground. Since then the managemnet "failure" has included a trophy, the highest Prem place, a European final and a string of absolutely fantastic players.
However you look at it that is SUCCESS. We are not Real Madrid or Man United. That is a GOLDEN AGE for Boro and would be for a whole division of other teams who think they are bigger and better than us.
To write off Boro's best ever spell of sustained top division football and only ever regular run of finals as a management failure if the books don't balance is moronic. Are you an accountant? Don't you understand what football is about? Sporting glory!
Are you a fan? or did you sit moaning over UEFA Cup football and at Eindhoven because the figures didn't add up? What about winning the League Cup? Was it just papering over the cracks because the team was paid for on the never never? They are my two greatest mmemories in 40 years following the Boro
If you are saying that unless the books balance the club is a failure then THE WHOLE OF FOOTBALL IS A FAILURE. Whose books balance? Crewe? Football clubs always lose money. Sales are the only way to deal with it and at Boro we have seen that once a generation for as long as I can remember.
I wouldn't change a moment of the last 20 years and I certainlty won't be putting the knife into the bloke who paid for it just because now he is changing tack. We've had a peak and now we'll have a trough.
AV - great article, but Paul added the crucial context.
I have no issues with running the club on a balanced budget - most of us still remember the dark days of padlocked gates and unpaid players training in the park...
What I ask for first and foremost is that the clubs leaders are honest with me. I can accept that they can't always be entirely open however I don't expect to be given deliberately misleading, inaccurate or untrue information. I'm not an idiot, nor are most of the people who support the club.
Secondly, I expect competent management and for those in power to be accountable. As a minimum, when they really mess up I expect them to acknowledge this reality. An apology would be a bonus.
Thirdly, I would like SG to broaden the Board and bring in people/shareholders with a more global vision: there's a saying "you are what you believe yourself to be" and too many at the club are too narrow in their thinking and perspective.
The landscape has changed and the probability is that the structure of football in five years time will have changed significantly from what it is now. We need fresh ideas, we need a new vision, and we need to restore confidence and trust in the leadership.
Danny said:
"The biggest mistake the recent history of the club was not to sign up Martin O'Neill as manager when Steve Gibson had the chance."
Wasn't it so that the already proven managers like MON like to have a big cheque book, £10-20m to spend on a player? I think he has spent really heavily at Villa. At the hight of their careers top managers don't want to go to 'small' clubs and cut costs. Hence we have just McClarens and Southgates here at Boro.
Good article, AV - a must reading for every football fan and Boro fans in particular!
We still have a chance to get promoted this season - three good loan players needed though. But best of all we will survive unlike some clubs!
Up the Boro!
Werdermouth:
Got to agree with you that we are where we are through misuse of the resources we had available.
As I do not know the finances I cannot comment upon them but I can see what has happened with what we had available. I can listen and watch and read what comes out of the club and some of it could be used to nourish rhubarb.
We were all aware that there would be less money available for players. We were all aware that the club was moving towards a lower cost base.
So why tell us that we would have a stronger squad, that we didnt need to sell to buy? By doing so the club have created the current problem. It isnt the first time they have got the communications wrong.
They rightly deserve the flak for pronouncing just before the window closed that there may not be any money available despite moving out high wage earners and receiving substantial transfer monies.
Most of us thought it unlikely that we would see any great influx of players and the window inactivity confirmed that. We expected players to leave, some would have to move to keep their careers at least stnding still.
The kicking the club are getting is for being disingenous. Gate is wearing his best 'the big boys made me do it look' and sounding like eeyore again
It is all self inflicted and the kicking well deserved. A benign dictator is still a dictator, if you adopt a 'we know best' attitude, 'with us or against us', if you are deliberately opaque and do not wish to be inclusive then you have to take the pain that goes with it if things go wrong. You cannot have it both ways.
None of this detracts from all the good that has happened in the past nor the need to keep the club safe. None of it will stop me supporting the Boro.
A final thought is that Gate has been cast as the hamstrung victim again. If he gets the bullet and Gibbo brings someone in then gives them a war chest that would be an indictment of the current regime.
Good piece of Journalistic endeavour A.V. with a more than fair assessment of how things stand within club policy. However, as with anything in life it is all water under the bridge. Nobody on this planet can change history.
I agree with Kev B in his call for the fans to get down to the Riverside on Saturday. No matter what you think of the way the club is managed, if you follow them, then turn up and support the players with keen vocal backing. After all, that is what being a Boro fan is all about. Ask anyone who regularly attends away games.
[In the voice of stage hypnotist - Kenny Craig ]
3,2,1 back in the real world.
Chris from Beverley
Giving MFC the kicking it deserves on this medium is totally separate from supporting the Boro in real life. This is the place to vent spleen not at the the Riverside or away grounds.
Once vented it is time to move on to the next match and support the team.
As others have already posted I can live with and understand the need to balance the books, sell players to reduce debt etc. In fact its re-assuring to know Boro are a well managed club, financially if nothing else!
However the big unresolved issue is SG's radio interview, whatever his reasons for saying what he said he surely must have known he was being creative with his words. We need to believe the Chairman when he speaks, now is the perfect time for him to put the record straight.
We are living in difficult financial times which are going to last for many years to come, we may be very grateful in the coming years for what SG has done recently, but more openness please!
Ian - I think you'll find it's me who doesn't differentiate between what you call Boro and MFC. I support Boro warts (& Keith Lamb!) and all, I have no need to seperate the good from the bad, I see it as one entity. My opinion and your opinion, we're both entitled to them are we not?
If football was to go bust and disappear up its own inflated pigs bladder, would it really matter?
Anyone else sick of the incredulous sums being spent, to win nowt. If we ever get back to the ‘big time’ it will be such an uncompetitive league that staying up would be a major if not impossible achievement. I don’t go to watch the boro in the vain hope that I might see them win 4/5 games a season.
As far as I see it there are two alternatives:
We proceed with the status quo and clubs go bust. Not a total disaster as they can be reinvented a la AFC Wimbledon. Their fans are surely having a better and more rewarding time than grabbing a point at the Reebok and then looking forward to the visit of Hull.
Or Kick the big 4/5 out of the Premier league into the Euro super league they crave. I think now it will be beneficial to all parties.
Ian Gill,
Sorry mate, I didn't think it was Fantasy Football you were writing about in all your postings to this Blog.
How silly of me..... I stand corrected.
Fantastic pathe news!!! Many Thanks.
p.s. the search engine produce no one - I take it thats your point!!??
Come on boro - and be careful what you wish for fans!!
So what we have is a club who has hopefully sorted itself out financially, but in in doing so has managed to alienate a good proportion of its supporters.
It cannot really be seen as good management to settle all these debts - more like an absolute minimum requirement to stop MFC going out of business.
What can be agreed is it was poor management to put MFC in the position where this had to happen in the first place. If the money was freely given to the club by SG in the first place to cover this spending binge we would not have debts, If it was loaned then the assumption should have been that the repayments were affordable and could be structured sensibly.
What followed was the Chairman of a large company broadcasting live and misleading his customers in the hope it would help his business both in terms of season ticket sales, and disguising the true state of the club to both potential signings and other clubs.
While this may be seen as beneficial to the fans and it may have brought short term financial rewards for MFC, the long term implications are much worse in the trust lost between the club and its fans, showing Mr Gibson as an exploiter of a gullible captive audience that will never be regained - just shows you what blind faith rather than reasoned consideration gets you. (screwed over generally)
How different was the content of SG's radio love-in to the reality of Mr Lamb's seemingly forced confessions?
What concerns me most is the long term poor decision making and consistent mistakes within MFC that have been the cause of all of this, that despite all the promises and the sackings still pervades at the club.
Unfortunately as you say AV, as there is no one else with the financial ability to take over this position then realistically there is absolutely nothing we as fans can do, other than shout and scream and hope that in our pointing out of the woeful inadequacies they are somehow rectified.
The "best chairman in the league" tag given to SG was on the back of both his trust in his managers and the consistent financial backing which we were led to believe was given rather than loaned to the club. It may be a line still thrown around by the occasional TV pundit but I believe that myth has well and truly been exploded in recent times.
What we have is a kindly local rich guarantor who I'm sure loves the town, but has consistently backed the wrong horses, isn't prepared to lend any more money and now wants it back as none of his decisions were correct, none of his bets have come in, and is prepared to lie to fans to recoup his cash as quickly as possible.
All we have left is the vain hope that some miraculous loan/free agent signings will be made to try and save this season. (and that come January we keep hold of what we have) What the fans would like would probably be something along the lines of Zenden and Viduka, what we can afford is another matter...
Chris
I was, oddly enough, largely agreeing so I am not correcting you. Please sit down and be uncorrected.
Maybe 'real life' were the wrong words. My meaning was that our gripes should be kept away from the ground.
An excellent article AV but you have missed one major point. Boro had the same problem that destroyed Leeds but have managed to ride it out - a near thing so its debatable whether the club have survived because of good management or went close to the wall because of bad management.
Leeds problem was that they reached the Champions League semi-final one season then failed to qualify for the next season. When Leeds got into the Champions League the players demanded a big pay increase - their argument being they had reached a higher level and should be paid accordingly.
Leeds paid up then found they had players on Champions League wages when they were no longer in the CL and their revenue dipped alarmingly because of it. They also couldnt dispose of those players without continuing to pay their wages as they had let the situation go too far.
In the match programme for Boro's game at Chelsea a year or so later the Chelsea chief exec commented how failure to qualify for the Champions League would have done the same thing to them as it had to Leeds and that only the income from the hotel built at Stamford Bridge had kept the club afloat. You could say that Newcastle's failure to maintain CL and later European involvement is the main cause of their situation now - it just took longer because of their huge fan base which they have milked disgracefully ever since.
With Boro it was the Carling Cup win and subsequent UEFA runs. Big names like Viduka and Hasselbaink who before that would never have looked twice at an offer from Boro all of a sudden were falling over themselves to join us becasue we were in Europe. Loanees like Mendieta and Zenden signed on permanently on fat pay packets the club wouldnt previously ahve considered. Others like Yakubu fell over themselves too to be on the bandwagon. None of these took a pay cut neither!
We managed to qualify again after a decent league finish but as soon as we were not in Europe they couldnt get out fast enough. That year if we could have qualified again by winning in Eindhoven or had reached the FA cup final instead of the UEFA final we might have had a chance to maintain that momentum and become one of those clubs that would always be around 6th or 7th slot and thus UEFA regulars.
Thats how close we were. But with McClaren gone it was vital we got in a manager capable of building another team that could scrape into Europe again as soon as possible whilst the big earners drained us dry. Instead we played safe, waved ambition goodbye and settled for a long slow rebuild instead but again we needed an experienced hand to do that and instead chose Southgate.
The fans didnt help. The 2nd year in Europe was played out before pathetic crowds in the early stages. Frankly we could get a full house against Banik in the first year but not against Roma and Steaua a year later. That was a club disgrace.
The rest though is down to the credit crunch which hit us harder because we had those extra liabilities of inflated UEFA wages without the revenue.
Steve Gibson too has had several years of problems with Bulkhaul. The entire road haulage industry has been hit hard by this government with taxes and fuel duties and fuel prices and incredibly even the rail industry has mounted a bit of a freight comeback. Now Bulkhaul's main customer base is being decimated by a government that is clobbering Teesside industry as much as Margaret Thatcher ever did. He still has to meet his own tax demands and maybe some of Boro's funding has had to be re-channeled to keep Bulkhaul and/or Steve Gibson afloat.
That he hasnt come clean about all this is something he may come to regret but I feel that he is still keeping the club on an even keel and that without him we might have gone under this past year. We arent back at 1986 again but we have had a near thing and maybe are not totally out the woods yet.
Guys
I know there's plenty else to worry about but to put it all in perspective Agnew's threatening that Gate will put The Corporal straight back between the sticks on Saturday now he's 'fit'.
Be afraid, be very afraid....
"incredibly even the rail industry has mounted a bit of a freight comeback. "
It is incredible.....and a great thing after years of wasteful, inefficient road transport policy that freight is back on the lines once again - don't believe the hype from the doom mongering all powerful road haulage lobby.
**AV writes: Let's hope this debate doesn't get derailed.
AV, Southgate is out of touch with the fans. They dont whant HULSE, too old and no sell on value. We've been there. He should look at SAM VOKES, young and fit enough to play a big part up front and might buy in January? If we have £4 mill to spend get a good man in to play in C M.
Jones in against Ipswich!! Surely not, the claim is Coyne has 'a bad back', I bet he'd be a shoe in if no other keeper were available. What does it say about Jones when Pears describes Coyne as a 'talker and good organiser', by implication Jones is neither and therefore an inferior player.
On the plus side it looks like O'Neil will be on the bench.
Some brighter news - allegedly...
How much trouble are Pompey in? They've just signed Webber, apparently.
The upside for us is that they've saved Gate from himself and us from another too small, out of contract non-scorer.
Well one small piece of good news - Webber has just signed for Portsmouth so at least we aren't intent on filling all of our striking places with vertically challenged non-scorers.
Very good write-up AV. Do you think football will eventually fall off its pedestal? How long can clubs sustain these leaps for glory?
J - Many fans opinion was that HULSE would be a perfect signing for us, just as many other fans thought he wasn't what we need. But quite simply the fans cannot form part of Southgate's signing decisions. None of us on here can agree with the status of the club or whether we trust Gibson or not because we all see things differently and all have our opinions.
Southgate being in touch with the fans over signings is irrelevant. Would you prefer the club to run votes over whether we sign someone? I mean, let's not even bother having a manager either, we can all vote on who starts in each position and we can all take it in turns to give team talks because Southgate isn't in touch with all Boro fans.
The club would be down the drain within days if all us fans had to agree on something before it happened!
Just for those fans who talk about Middlesbrough being where they deserve to be and not being able to afford top players thought i'd cut and paste a little snippet about Arsene Wenger's transfer record while at Arsenal.
"Although Wenger has made some big-money signings for Arsenal, his net spending record is far superior to other leading Premier League clubs. A survey in 2007 found he was the only Premier League manager to have made a profit on transfers,[35] and between 2004 and 2009 Wenger made an average profit of £4.4 million per season on transfers, far more than any other club.[36]
"A notable example was the purchase of Nicolas Anelka from Paris St Germain for only £500,000 and his subsequent sale to Real Madrid just two years later for £22.3m. The enabled Wenger to buy three players, Thierry Henry, Robert Pirès and Sylvain Wiltord, who all played a significant role in the Double in 2001-02 and the league title win in 2003-04."
I copied this article because i think it perfectly highlights what any club is capable of achieving providing they have an astute manager and a good scouting network. Yes it makes things easier if your club is based in the big smoke, but if you are signing unheard of players then Middlesbrough would still be a huge step up for most of them.
So for Boro fans to come out with it is impossible to compete at the highest level i would argue that they are wrong. The fact that we have being using the completely wrong model to get there (Lets's sign high profile players whose skills are dwindling, rather than energetic, young and hungry players with a point to prove, who i might add will cost far less in transfers and wages and also have some sell on value.) has been the main flaw.
The main problem with signing quality young players is that it takes a very astute manager with the ability to spot and then nurture talent. Very few managers have this ability and even less can be taught it. I know it's a long time ago but just to compare £500,000 for Nicolas Anelka or £4 million for Rob Hulse?
Just a side note on what appears to be Middlesbroughs new strategy, to rely on our youth team to supply the majority of the first team is not realistic. Just by probability alone in a population of 250,000 in the Teesside area we are not going to be able to produce enough quality players to cover the first team. Yes we may get lucky and have 2 or 3 at any one given time but to suggest 7 or 8 players would be good enough is simply not realistic and statistically impossible. Man Utd did it but there youth team was hand picked from the cream of the countries talent.
The most important thing about this transfer window was the players we kept. The priority was to keep a core of young, hungry, talented local lads that wanted to play for the Boro. We turned down big offers for Wheater and Johnson to achieve this.
We decreased the wage bill by offloading the high earning mercenaries that really don't care if it's Boro, Stoke, Abu Dabi or anyone else that pays their wages.
We are now financially rock solid and have a squad that is capable of challenging for promotion.
Well done Steve Gibson.
Sadly, there has been so much rubbish written on this thread that I thought for a moment I was on fmttm.
Lamb said AFFORD not deserve.
O'Neill turned us down, not the other way round.
And how does this jiffy claim to know that Bulkhaul have had "several years of problems"? That's utter nonsense.
Steve Gibson has given this club years of unprecedented success. I'm looking forward to a great season. In May we will be there or thereabouts.
Great article which "puts the meat on the bones" for those who had already come to the same conclusion - many thanks.
The less realistic point to the fact that there are smaller clubs with smaller grounds and less income still in the Premier League but we stayed there longer than any other promoted team (apart frpm Newcastle - and they didn't have 3 points deducted) but the turn will come for each of these too.
I agree with Jiffy, above at 12.54pm and, to make it worse, our gate receipts and other peripheral income was never going to be as high as other clubs like Chelsea (with or without billionaire backing), Leeds or Spurs or any number of other clubs which might have either gone over the financial edge or gone very close to it.
The Leeds lesson was plain for all to see several years ago. It didn't just happen to them this past summer.
Those in possession of the books knew the financial position better than any of us on this blog. A sensible restructuring of the club's debts and a realistic approach to outgoings (including players wages and transfer fees) should have been possible, rather than a panic firesale with everything being attempted at one fell swoop (whilst at the same time giving supporters the impression on the radio that there was no problem).
We were caught out because, as someone said earlier, over the last season the coaching/management was poor and the players played badly. The ship was aimed at the rocks since late last autumn as many on this blog warned (but were ignored) and no-one at the club seemed either willing or able to alter course. If you are aiming for a crash and do nothing about it then, in the absence of a miracle, the inevitable happens. It did.
Properly organised and motivated our squad of players, whilst maybe a bit thin in depth of quality, should have been capable of staying in the Premier League ahead of teams like Hull. Then prudent changes could have been made without suffering the massive loss of income that has now occurred, so that we could have looked to finish above the likes of Hull, Wolves and Birmingham this year instead of having to look up to them as if they were on Mt Everest and we were on Cat Nab.
To get out of this situation we will need the players to perform, the coaching and management team to do its job, the scouting network to identify good, young and hungry targets for whom a move to the Boro would be an upward step in their career so the players are desperate to prove themselves on the pitch (rather than coming here to top up their pension plans), and we need the fervent support of a full ground. Of course it is more difficult to get people to hand over their hard earned cash in these straitened times if the supporters feel they have been misled.
And the other thing we will need is luck. I'm not sure we have seen too much of that at the Riverside recently. Remarkably enough we STILL might be able to grab promotion this year if things go well. But then, thrown back in with the big fish and with basically a Championship squad at that stage, but without a big pot of money to spend, it will take a particularly canny, experienced and motivational manager to keep us there the year after. Confident of that, anyone?
Av, any chance you could stick the reasons why Martin O'Neill didn't join Boro to the top of every blog, so that we don't get a constant stream of posts about it?
Last season it was widely recognised Boro got relegated because of a lack of experienced players. We get one in called Coyne - he has several clean sheets, almost a record for Boro, and now we understand Southgate is considering dropping him and bringing back a player who helped us to relegation. Is there any wonder why players are refusing to come to the Riverside?
We were relegated because of inept management- quess what? Our saviour still has belief in a no-hoper. Whilst most can accept that life has changed what is harder to accept is you don't employ a man who can get everything out of his players week in week out. A motivator, tactitian, who has an eye for a player and can develop him and mould a team. That's what sticks in the craw with a lot of fans.
Now for a surprising story: Speaking to a Stoke fan whose view was that Huth was bought as cover and will largely sit on the bench. Amazing and it seems an unlikely scenario.
Wonder if Webber going to Pompey undermines our striker plans?
Our gate reciepts for the entire season will be about 8 million pounds. That is what John Terry "earns" in one season. This just shows what we are up against, and that we will never ever be able to compete with the top teams in the premiership again.
What sort of experienced businessman fills his warehouse/shop full of goods bought at full value but on or almost at their sell by date?
Clearly there is/was a serious flaw to the business model because whilst it brought some much appreciated short term satisfaction it was never going to be sustainable. Why did we not learn lessons especially after El Tel was brought in to underpin a Rookie Manager and then repeated the mistake? If buying aged players with no resale value was a contributory factor to our downfall why are we now chasing Rob Hulse?
Is Aliadiere a better option than Morrison? Digard (or for that matter Rocky before him) a better option than Cattermole? Alves a better option than Danny Graham? Jones better than Turnbull?
What of our brilliant new scouting set up scouring Europe for bright new talent when Mackay was ousted some years back with our old boys (Mills, McQueen) charged with bringing the next Viera or Henry to the Riverside? Where are theses young up and coming starlets and why were/are we paying wages and expenses to a scouting team that clearly couldn't find their collective way out of a Nettie? Failure to deliver anything of genuine merit (£3M for "one for the future" Emnes or permacrock Digard?) has now cost the club dearly and Dave Mackay must now be sat smugly laughing to himself after being criticised for his lack of dossiers!
What about all the warning signs pre Christmas that were ignored to allow for a few more lessons to be learned, Square peggism, last minute gimme's, Zonal non-marking?
Small things like Badges and Kits and then the pettyness of the Century/Bernie fall out and the even more pathetic and cringworty embarrasment of the Tees/Ali "love in". The cracks were showing and Bernie was castigated for stating the obvious and now all of us (including the Triumverate) are paying the price.
The "misinformation" emanating of late seems to have added insult to injury. The apparently "staged" phone ins just insulted intelligence and the ensuing bizarre incoherent outpourings didn't help. A case if ever I saw it of "You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".
Its time the Triumverate stood up and held their hands up and stop the spin. Whats become of the PR Guru/Spin Doctor who has been ominous by his silence of late? What are we going to be spun this Friday when the Count faces a barrage of phone calls from the foam handers, sadly I doubt if anyone will believe a word even if it is truthful and from the heart (minus the stake of course).
AV, that was well worth the wait..........says it all really.
I can't help but look at the similarities between Boro and Pompey regarding financial restructuring. The obvious difference is that they "survived" for another year in the premiership....but for how long? It would appear they may already be doomed this early in the season.
I'm a fatalist, and as painful as it was to see us getting relegated, in the bigger scheme of things maybe that was required to enable the restructuring. It just goes to show what an even finer line it is now between failure and success in the Premiership. Let us all hope we have a much better season this time......I mean it can't get any worse than the last one!
I don't agree with all of what you're saying AV. The principles are right but I can't help but feel you're overlooking the lack of a genuinely good manager. If we had splashed out on that we could have saved on expensive journeymen.
I also think that some of our best buys in recent years will turn out to be Digard and Emnes. If we'd had a policy of buying young players and genuine prospects in the lower leagues we could have saved on wages if nothing else.
Alves, Zenden, Tuncay, Aliadiere, Viduka, Yakubu...all high earners with no loyalty to the club - only a loyalty to the Premier league. I don't think we've been very clever in our long term thinking.
And that's before I start talking about how effectively we've brought out good young academy talent on. Cattermole's career is starting to make a few people at the Boro look inept.
Brilliant blogging AV. It gives a bit of level headed perspective that has been lacking among the squabbling supporters over the summer.
I have printed it out for my brother and his mates who can’t get their head around why we didn’t have £21m to spend on players. To them it is Meerkat mathematics: “simples.”
No wonder so many people are in debt in their own lives if they don’t understand that at some point you have to pay for the big telly, new car and the holiday bought with credit. And can you make sure your colleague Bernie Slaven reads it because he is the worst offender on this.
The Count is brave to go on Radio Tees and face the music to be savaged by a toothless sheep.
One problem he will have is the same one faced by Gibbo and Gate. The audience will be a mixture of believers and non believers. Each group will use the the answers given to reinforce there own positions.
The other problem is that the unholy trinity keep coming on to Radio Tees after they have 'let down' the fans.
I repeat my oft stated criticism of the club in that the communications are poor. We all knew that we were struggling for money, the size of the problem is not in the public domain, but the veil of secrecy does their cause no good at all.
As Vic states there are valid reasons for the secrecy but it is all lost in the overall picture of bungled PR. If you are in a hole you put the spade down instead of calling the local plant hire company to bring in a JCB.
I dont think the triumverate are evil, maybe they are too closely bound to each other. I have no answers that they would be willing to embrace.
AV
Out of interest I noticed in the comments section of Lambies article that posters were complaining that comments had been removed. As I was away can you shed any light on this or is this the Silence of the Lamb - have those geeks in MFC ties and Stewards Jackets been 'helping' again?
**AV writes: I'm not involved in moderating the main site and know nothing about such comments but I imagine any editing there will be legal rather than political or diplomatic. We don't have an agenda to stifle debate, even a cursory glance through our forums or on here would show that.
The problem is that some people can't get their head around the idea that "free speech" does not allow them to make repeated, ill-informed and often malicious libellous remarks, especially about people who have access to highly paid lawyers.
When tempers boil over I have often removed similar remarks on here, just one or two words, usually substituting a less contentious phrase that retains the emotion and the general thrust while removing the risk of the blog being closed by a writ.
For instance, hypothetically speaking, it would be clearly defamatory to accuse Keith Lamb of "gross incompetence." You may think he is the epi-centre of evil and is personally responsible for every ill to befall the club since the Black Death and you are free to construct an argument over his behaviour and words around a specific issue or the management structure and culture at the club and draw reasoned conclusions that constitute 'fair comment' and yes, we can even have a laugh about his alleged Vampirical affiliations and aversion to mirrors.
But to accuse him of "incomptence" or "deliberately running the club down" or "forcing players out" or "costing us signings" or any of the other colourful commonplaces on the Boro 'street' would not stand up in court. It wouldn't get that far. Your brief (our brief) would fold as soon as they looked at the quote. None of those emotive suppositions could be proved. Lamb has been chief executive through Boro's most successful era ever, engineered a rise from liquidation to a £100m turnover and has thrashed out the deals for all our heroes. That can.
The criteria in libel cases is not "would this get heads nodding in agreement in a pub full of easily riled, emotionally battered Boro fans with a gripe" but rather "would a staid old judge and a jury of ordinary Londoners think it is reasonable".
Vaughan from Everton's the latest loan rumour.
OK - well, not a line leader, though and under six foot. And not experienced, though doubtless a raw talent with strength and pace.
Anichebe - from the same source - is 6' 3'' still not experienced but again, raw talent with strength and pace. Unfortunately, just on the brink of recovery from injury so probably not for now.
At least both have some Prem and UEFA pedigree and are keen to play. If I were Moyes I'd wonder just how much either or both would learn from a sojourn with Boro. But hey....
But are there really no experienced line leaders available for loan? So much for lists of targets and the reformed scouting system.
No championship, line leading 6 foot plus centre forwards available for loan? Come on, there must be loads. Just a quick look at few bloated Prem squads throws up:
Daniel Cousin: One time target
Caleb Folan,
Richard Creswell,
Marlon King,
Championship players
John Parkin, THE big man
Lower Leagues
Enoch Showumni at Leeds
Surely one of these would fit the bill. If not Carsten Jancker is still looking for a club… AV if the Carsten Jancker rumour is firmed up can I get my own Gossip column?
**AV writes: You can have a "guess of the day" post every morning if you want.
Of your list I think Cousin and Folan are the best bets except I think they will be on big money.Cresswell is a strong possibility I think. And how about Henri Camara, a free agent after being released by Wigan?
AV
Guessed as much but it does no harm giving you the opportunity to reiterate some of the ground rules for those of us posting on the blogs.
I also agree that the sins of club tend to be through clumsiness, the unholy trinity have the clubs best interests at heart.
The opaque nature of MFC makes it difficult to judge what takes place. We have to take a view based on the information we see in front of us. But it makes good blogging material!
**AV writes: I think you are right: the absence of a free flow of real information and the dark, yawning abyss between the powers that be and the 'street' prove fertile ground for even the most lurid rumours to go unchecked and gather momentum until we finally get the distorted 'truth' we 'deserve.'
AV
Just musing about that guy whose work you showcased a little while ago who argued that a football team's success had nowt to do with the manager.
I wonder how he reconciles that with Eng-er-lund under Capello?
**AV writes: I don't think he says it was "nowt" to do with the manager, rather that the importance of the manager is over-stated. I think the thesis was based entirely on club football and specifically was about direct corelation to the wage bill and the ability to recruit and retain better players. For instance, when there was dosh in the pot "bad" manager Southgate finished 12th and "bad" boss Robson finished 9th.
Richard Cresswell
Place of Birth Bridlington
Height 6ft 0in
Age 32 at end of month
Goal ratio 0.22 per game
Championship experience: Bountiful
Wage: according to PS2 manger game £8,000 p/week
As a loan signing he looks good to me. Certainly better than not bringing anyone in.
Nice to see Steve Gibson out from his air raid shelter for enough time to give an interview to the Gazette or atleast a statement.....shame it wasn't about the football team rather than Corus! Would i be stupid to think he is now trying to calm the fans down by championing a cause that is close to many fans hearts?
Get Viduka in on pay for play until January he is exactly what we are looking for upfront. He will have the shop window he needs to find a club and will have to perform and be picked to be paid. He still lives in the area.
This gives us time to negotiate to get the right man at the right price in Jan.
Viduka is not realy my cup of tea but in this situation i think its a win win for both parties
Two loan signings expected to sign soon, possibly one before the Ipswich game (mfc.co.uk) AV have any ideas?
Tim from sa - Viduka has decided to live in Australia (SSN)
**AV writes: Yes. One maybe tomorrow, one early next week from a Premier League club but I can't say who yet. Pain of death.
AV: We know every club is in financial trouble Man Utd, Liverpool, Pompey ... Newcastle .. so why should the Boro be immune ?
One question? If we had survived let's say on goal difference would the Boro and Gibson be in better financial position than they are now ?
**AV writes: Yes, of course. They would be £25m better off and would be in a far, far stronger position to renegotiate their debt schedules in the bank... but I think they would still have sold the ones who have gone. The need to slash the wage bill and debts would still be there but would not be as pressing.
I agree it is a good idea to remind people that unsubstantiated comments intemperately expressed, quite apart from downright scurrilous untruths, could land them (or you and the Gazette) into expensive legal waters.
I'd be surprised if members of the management don't read this blog regularly. In that case, I'd also be surprised if one particular gentleman doesn't smile when he sees reference to his unaccountable liking for dark cloaks and the cliffs at Whitby. And as for staking out the Blood Bank intent on making, let's say, a withdrawal.... maybe the least said is the better option.
Mind you, I'll bet his family send him lots of cards at Hallowe'en, with a knowing wink. I bet he loves the notoriety of it all! But how does he shave in the morning?
And do I take it from Smogonthetyne, above at 2.07pm, that the Playfair soccer annual has now been overtaken by the PS2 handbook for anyone needing contract details, height, weight, chosen breakfast cereal, favourite colour etc?
Some interesting posts re the argument Gibbo knows what he is doing versus his time is over at the club.
The damning evidence that Gibbo has lost it (for some reason he thought it was impossible for us to go down, what games did he watch?) is his rabbit in the car headlights attitude in january when it was obvious we were going down with Gareth Southgate as manager.
Was it pig headedness that he didn't sack GS or was he out of ideas and energy?. Seems he is now out of cash as well, it seems strange all the other clubs moved heaven and earth to cling onto PL status either changing managers or getting in some new players - we signed Marlon King which tells us everything we need to know about the situation in the dressing room and the boardroom. So we were left with a dysfunctional squad, an ineffective manager and a paralysed chairman.
Roll forward to this season a great start but the lack of depth and the inexperience of the squad will surely prevent us from getting promotion. Our 2 main assets must be concerned and Johnson must be waiting for a better offer in January.
Southgate will take this club nowhere because he is a poor manager and I can't believe he will survive another season. I used to call for Southgate out - now it's Southgate and Gibbo.
AV, Boro should employ you to explain to fans what is going on all the time. They obviously won't or can't do it themselves. And unless someone does people's imagination runs wild and rumours take the place of real facts.
I'm enjoying the season so far. Winning has helped but I'm just glad to be out of the Premiership and the weekly grind of playing teams who are even more scared of losing than we are.
I've been to a couple of away games and it has been a brilliant atmosphere. If only the silent misery guts at the Riverside could make home games that bouncing.
We have to get behind the team, starting tomorrow at Ipswich. Outside of the top six football is cyclic though every Boro fan could see our demise into the Championship coming a mile off.
I still, and will never understand if cost cutting measures were in place why we signed Alves. I can't understand why we would be prepared to sign Hulse for £4m after letting Tuncay go for £5 million to Stoke.
I can't understand why we signed Gascoigne for £4m quid, and let him destroy the team bus and finish his career with nothing to show for it. I can't understand why Bolo Zenden is now a free agent and probably off to Hull. But then again we have had lots of players who thought the grass was greener on the other side who went to 'bigger' clubs and their careers suffered.
But the recent demise and relegation of the club was completely avoidable - we all know that. But would we as fans be prepared to be coffin dodgers every season - ala Charlton all those years ago. Well no - we all know when it started, with the West Ham defeat in the semi final of the FA Cup. And with McClaren leaving. And cost cutting.
There is no easy answer, other than to say that last season the club brought it on themselves. And now they expect the fans to embrace the additional cost cutting - because the books must be balanced because of the £20m shortfall that comes with relegation. Take a good look at yourself Mr Lamb. I wouldn't like the reflection, principally because you have wasted a lot of money and secondly, because you would crack a mirror.
Absolutely dispair at the fact that we would still pursue Hulse for £4m when we sold Tuncay for £5m. This has Lamb written all over it. Sure he was there from the 1986 Henderson days and saving the Boro back then, but Boro really really desperately need a new Chief Executive to stop us losing money so stupidly. If Lamb had got the chop when Robson went and got a reasonably talented individual in, Gibson would have saved money.
Lamb is the problem. Simple as.
Gutted thanks for info yep thats a bit far to travel.
We shall move on and learn from this.
AV
One thing I forgot to add about the Unholy Trinity is that they seriously mismanaged the resources available over the past year or so.
Putting Afonso Leavs to one side there was still the wholesale culling of central midfielder player with no replacements other than a one legged, crocked Frenchman for the future. That was a huge gamble to take with poor odds of success.
The sale of Young and the purchase of Hoyte was another with little chance of working in the short term. M&S was something for the future as well.
We culled the experience, unbalanced the team and spent money for the future that needed to be allocated to the here and now. Or not spent at all, may as well keep as waste it with Digard treatment table warming, Hoyte bench warming and M&S running about to little effect.
So the Trinity are certainly not evil but they contributed hugely to our relegation.
Excellent piece AV! About time that as a respected journo you put across the condition of the club. Outside of the local blogs I have read that football fans admire the way the club has gone about the restructuring. Here it's "idiotic" bloggers asking the question "where's the money gone?"
Half educated football fans are vaguely aware of the state of the club, the state of the economy etc but it will only hit home to these fans who have only known the Premiership when people like yourself put it down in black and white. Even this article has still not got through to a few - which is a shame. This article should be a reality check for a few. Good work AV.
Mind you the focus will all change at the weekend when Gate plays Corporal over Coyne! Talk about digging your own grave.
News breking up that Boro sign Preston defender Sean St Ledger today. The Republic of Ireland international sounds a good loan (and permanent signing in January) as he is just 24 trs old. He could be making his debut against Ipswich Town tomorrow?
Early next week GS is adding Hull striker Caleb Folan. Any details about him?
Now just a midfielder (if Shawky has disappeared to the black hole) is needed anymore...
Up the Boro!
Two goals a game? How the hell are we going to score two goals a game, targeting the sort of strikers Southgate has pencilled in, so far?
It's all very well 'only wanting people who want to play for the club' but on top of that, they need to be of some worth.
Who is reccommending players like Folan? Do we have any scouts? If it's Southgate himself, please update his copy of Football Manager
Alves scored 13 in 37 games for the Boro, Folan 31 in 191 in his career.
How is Folan going to benefit us in anyway. He has as many cards as goals. It is another Jason Euelluseless signing, keep the wages in the bank.
I see Alan Smith is now being trotted out as a spokesman. You never know we may get some common sense out of him.
St. Ledger - excellent news
James Vaughan - pretty good
Caleb Folan - Hmmmmm....
Finally a bit of positive news. It appears that a deal for St Ledger is almost complete & he may be in contention to play against Ipswich. At 24yo, I think he is exactly the type of player we should have been buying years ago. Even if all does not go swimmingly, at least he will have some resale value, which is a bit of a novelty for the Boro.
I'm not quite so sure about buying Folan from Hull though. 15 goals in 102 appearances is hardly the strike rate of a player who will cost a couple of million quid. With a bit of luck, the Barcodes might outbid us at the last minute & offer him their usual ridiculous wage packet ! James Vaughan on loan seems an infinitely better option to me.
Hopefully this post will get through the system. I actually lost my first post "into the ether" as I believe some posters on here describe it, the other day. I'm thinking of it as a rite of passage in my Untypical Boro journey, as I seem to be one of the few who has not had it happen before. My luck had to run out eventually I suppose!
**AV writes: Those posts go into the Black Hole. It gives Shawky and Josh something to read to keep their spirits up.
The prospective loan signings mooted today promote mixed feelings.
St. Ledger is regarded by PNE fans as their best player is 24 and in the Republic squad/team.Excellent business if it can be done. Folan is a player most Hull fans would drive to Teesside to get rid of.Other than the fact he is tall he has a poor scoring record and is basically a lower league donkey.Surly Sam Vokes at Wolves or James Vaughan at Everton are much better bets.Why go for proven non quality???
I don't think there are too many "half educated or idiotic bloggers" (as Davwind claims) on here asking where the money has gone. We are all too aware of what has happened to it and where it has gone. Quite simply it appears to us that SG ran the club with his heart rather than his head and there is no shame in that. Indeed a lot of us, myself included may have been tempted to do the exact self same thing.
The frustration and anger however is that what precious and scant resouces we had (and lets face it we were never in the same league as Manchelarsepool) have been wasted before our very eyes and our screaming rants over the years were largely ignored as though we were the "Antiboro".
None of us wanted what is now reality and yes we wanted glamour (who doesn't?) but we (and Bernie) seen the rails coming off a long, long time ago but were not only ignored but castigated for it. We are all in this together but if the fans had been listened to we wouldn't have been in quite so deep and even today this lesson does not appear to have been fully learned.
In fairness Alan Smith's comments seem to be a bit more frank and straight than previous club communications, I just hope this continues for the sake of Boro over MFC.
davwind - maybe Coyne refused to sign a new contract?
Seriously though, Gareth would really wind up the fans if he puts Jones straight back between the sticks with no logical "injury" to Coyne. That would indicate too much about his management style, which appears to be based upon favourites. Hopefully common sense will prevail.
The loan signings should provide some interest in the next couple of weeks. I know nothing of St Ledger, however if he wants to come to the club (a la "Football Consultant" Smith) and is young and hungry - then it would be good all round.
Folan is a mystery though...he may be tall, however that isn't necessarily the only attribute needed to be the "big target man". As others have commented, if we have indeed been offered Vaughan from Everton we should snap their hands off.
We all know what a hitherto under-played Frazier Campbell did for Hull's promotion bid, and Vaughan is a young and hungry striker with arguably a greater eye for goal than any of our current incumbents. 39 PL matches in his career and 6 goals - although most of those appearances were probably as a substitute, so it improves slightly.
Folan's stats at Premier League level are 34 games and 3 goals - and he probably started quite a few of those games.
Of course, stat's don't say everything, but I know who I'd rather we got in.
Great blog AV agree with all you say.
Must say Mr Smith step forward and take a bow for telling as it is. Once again I think thats all that Boro fans want is plain and simple as it is.
What happened to the plan of relying on local talent? After Yeates and Coyne come St Leger and Folan - plus maybe it's not too late to get Healy on loan too - also doesn't that O'Neil have a touch of the shamrock?
No wonder Gareth has started sounding different at his press conferences...
"Wi' al' de new signings Oi'm gonna 'av ter start changin' me accent for team talks - Can yer score us a few goals big fella!"
"By de way we are gonna change Pigbag to de Wild Rover - to be sure"
**AV writes: "so long as we get d' tree points"
Following the Irish connection how about setting Boro on Craggy Island and casting Gate as Father Ted, Coops as Father Dougal, Lambie as Father Jack and Sue Watson as Mrs Doyle.
How many years of history do Middlesbrough have? How many of those years did we do nothing - not even a FA Cup semi?
The past 12 years have been a period of huge over acheivement. Bankrolled by Gibson with a high profile manager to attract the players (Robson). '97 was the best season I experienced and wouldn't change the good times.
Be very grateful for the recent history, it might be a long time coming back!
"Terry said:
[...]
p.s. the search engine produce no one - I take it thats your point!!??"
I got Danny Graham. I thought THAT was AV's point... ;)
**AV writes: yes, I got Danny Graham
...and there go the masses!
Bottom line - we have a Championship to win!
The jury is out!
Re: The Gazette "Smithy article!"
Don't be conned by the "spin" of this pre-meditated article - spin, spin, spin and more spin.
The whole article and Smithy's comments stink of a cover up and ultimate admission that mistakes have been made at our beloved club and that certain people, still in their "comfy" positions, at our club should not be allowed off the hook at the expense of Tuncay's and Huth's attitude and cost to the club!
Conclusion - Smithy is been used as a PR puppet!!!
What say you AV?
"Are you a fan? or did you sit moaning over UEFA Cup football and at Eindhoven because the figures didn't add up? What about winning the League Cup? Was it just papering over the cracks because the team was paid for on the never never? They are my two greatest mmemories in 40 years following the Boro "
Yes son an excellent Boro fan for 48 years actually, man and boy. Did you deliberately ignore the bit where I give a big thumbs up to the McClaren era? The League Cup win was a day we all only ever dreamed of ever experiencing, and in the context of our parents generation considered myself fortunate to have lived to see the day.
Steve Gibson was rightly given the credit for those heady days but I was referring to the period prior to this and the shocking era of mismanagement we are currently suffering under. He is only human you know, not a deity, he can make mistakes - shock horror.
We can't keep living in the past of this reflected glory in an attempt to justify the current incompetent regime of G.S. and co. He who lives in the past has no future.
I don't accept the premis that the Robson era was a time of unqualified success and greatness. There were some good times and some awful incidents of embarrising failure because he headed a regime that was often shown to be akin to that of a Sunday morning pub side.
Our first major Cup Final should have seen Brian Robson making history as being the first Boro manager to win us a major trophy. Instead his woeful mismanagement of a superior team on the day, cost us dearly.
I was of course delighted with the financial backing that Steve Gibson provided at that time, my point then as is now was that it was futile because the people given the responsibility to realise the return on such expensive outlays were utterly and totally unqualified and incapable of delivering. Where are they now?
In other words, throwing money at trying to build a football team and thinking everything would just fall into place as if by magic, would end in tears, and I was proved right.
Quote at that time from the Corriello Del Sport on the situation at the Boro: "Middlesbrough are like a builder constructing a house by starting at the roof. " They were right, no solid foundations or long term strategy.
I was not the only critic of course; some time later Ravenelli blamed Robbo directly for the loss of that Final. Also some time later the woeful Viv Anderson claimed the man marking of Juninho cost us the Cup. Funny that one, I could have sworn we were 1 - 0 up with 1 minute of extra time left; and as they say, the rest is history.
Viv Anderson was not always that funny, most of the time I could of cried.
Back onto the Championship roller coaster with six matches in 21 days. The first five in 17 days brings us to the mythical ten game test.
There is little time between games for fine tuning so it will be a test of our mettle against six teams who, pre season, could argue they will be thereabouts for at least play off places.
The first of those against struggling Ipswich will tell us a lot about the the teams character. Typical Boro would happily gift them a kick start to their season.
A victory would see us amongst the pace setters, defeat would drop us into the pack. A draw would be little better than a defeat as it would show a lack of bottle.
We have been talking a good game and the results have been good, City apart. It is time to kick on or lose touch. Bringing in a non striking striker will do little to generate more points, St Ledger might help us save a few. What we have will have to get us around the top of the table by Xmas.
I suspect a nervy 2-1 win with the spectre of the weak willed Typical Boro in the background.
I know it's not good to speak ill of the undead - so I won't, really.
I listened to 'Father Jack' on Ali B last evening - what a non-event. My strong suspicion - fueled by the amount of Brownlee padding, news, weather, road reports, jingles etc - is that barely anyone rang up because they knew what was coming.
Those that did, barely got near the right questions and when they did, The Count just avoided them like crosses and daylight. No silver bullets from the '3 points' and the £5.2m (at least) loss on Alves either.
He'd have been better employed spending the hour getting the St. Ledger deal sorted - I see it's gone into the usual MFC slow motion again.
I wonder if he'll play for Preston this afternoon and get crocked?
The Barcodes in for Folan?
On this one, The Count must take his time! Cut along and talk to Moyes about Vaughan and Anichebe or Moxey at Wolves about Vokes.
peterboroughangel:
There's lots to agree with in your earlier post, of course. But I'd like it if the word 'over' could be taken out of the Boro lexicon when applied in harness with 'achievement'. That's the sort of expression that has kept Boro - and indeed Teesside - from achieving more.
Ok we have now heard from several people at the club that the money invested in the club was not by Steve Gibson but by banks with Gibson as a guarantor. This money has to be paid back and is not a gift from the Steve Gibson, never has been. This has just been the untruth not corrected since the begining!
Lamb has basically stated this in his interview.'We started with nothing and are 30 million in debt but we have a squad and a stadium...blah' SO CAN PEOPLE STOP STATING THAT STEVE GIBSON HAS BANK ROLLED THE CLUB...THIS IS NOT THE TRUTH...................Please read the interviews over the last few weeks and understand....he has merely ..acted as a guarantor for the debt! The banks have been the people bank rolling the club as with most clubs !!
I am hoping to see a decent squad out today with not to much TINKERING from Gareth.
Vaughan from Everton is what we need on loan.
Up the BORO
Tosh talking more, well tosh
"I thought he had learned his lesson when appointing somebody of more substance in the guise of Steve Mclaren"
So a coach/no.2, with no managerial experience is somebody of substance? I'm sure you were saying that after his first game Tosh. It's amazing how Italy's premier sports paper, the white feather and good old Viv have also endorsed your unique view.
PS if you could just let me know next weeks Euro millions numbers, i promise to buy Gibbo out and install Martin O'Neil :)
Well said Chris, a proper mythbuster. It is so obvious that we are a major victim of the "credit crunch" that we , like many more did not see coming.
If the club had appointed somebody into the key role as manager that had the experience, intelligence and ability to handle such a difficult period of belt tightening our position would not have become so dire.
The arrival of the "credit crunch" was compounded by the fact we entrusted the key role of manager to someone who was not up to the task; again!
Southgate has promised to do everything he can to help the Boro cause. If Boro don't win at Coventry he needs do only one thing to keep to his promise.... resign.