Lack-Lustre Leicester's Lethal Late Blow

I think it may need for fans to start deserting the terraces for Gibson to get the message that the fans do not want Southgate in charge of the team.

Three horrible past seasons with him in charge, lowest goals scored in the whole of the football league last season. Has Southgae corrected the goal scoring problem over the summer break? Not a chance. Strikers brought in are not up to it either.

I think Rockcliffe Hall Hotel and Golf Course project has more of Gibson's backing nowadays than the Team that plays on the pitch at the Riverside. Show the fans on Teesside Mr Gibson that you do care and do the honourable thing and dismiss Southgate now. We are not going anywhere with him in charge

Two wins in seven, record low crowds, fanbase as dispirited as I can remember since Lennie Lawrence, repeated mistakes, inevitable results, doom, gloom, resignation all round except from the maybe the one expected or now even required. This must be the biggest crisis facing the club since Lennie's final season but can Gibbo and Lamb see it?

It will take a miracle for GS to recover from this.I can't see a way how he can pull the dressing room together now, especially with a team full of kids with no leaders. I think he is probably close to losing the dressing room. He just isn't a lucky manager.

If he remains I'll continue to give him my support but this is based purely on loyalty as I have lost all faith.

UTB

Lack lustre? Wrong choice of words for a team that exposed some poor defending of yours to score.

Even west brom managed to pump 5 past you.

"If fans want to react like that so be it. I will take whatever stick that is coming my way. I understand the frustrations. Expectations are high here - people expect us to go straight back up - but we have had some under-par results and performances.

"But we need some perspective. We are still only three points off a promotion place and still very much in it."

To all you Southgate fans especially JOHNDD49 surely you have had enough of this totally inept manager by now. We have only played three decent teams all season we have not scored a goal against them at home and conceded six.

Leicester had not even won away from home this season. This was another game we should have won, but all the same old failings and yet another late goal.

IF YOU DONT GO NOW SOUTHGATE I DONT THINK YOU EVER WILL YOU ARE PATHETIC AS A MANGER AND ALL OF THOSES WHO SUPPORT YOU IN "BLIND FAITH" ARE THE SAME.

Then only good thing about the result is that not many other teams picked up points. WBA got beat away from home, so what does that now say about their 5-0 drubbing here.

What we need after a run of such terrible results is a period of calm reflection.

.....there, that's better. Now, please SACK THIS HOPELESS MANAGER!

The club is in ruins and is being 'managed' by someone who rates lower than the dark days of Bobby Murdoch and Malcolm Allsion.

Anybody else notice Sevilla playing in the Champions League and taking one of Scotland's top sides to pieces? This on the same night as Boro, floundering in the fizzy pop league, concede a late goal for the 3rd time in 10 games, and 'learn lessons'. It's clear which side has progressed since Eindhoven and how deep is the malaise now woven into the fabric of the club.

How much lower can we get? How much longer can this go on?

AV - do you have the above post saved on your PC? Replace Leicester with xxxxxxx?
How many times has the above happened to Boro at home?

Why did Southgate take off Bennett and then drop Williams to left back?

Surely at that point we should have took a chance and played two or three at the back, what difference does it make if you lose 2 - 0 instead of 1 - 0?

Thats 3 games out of 5 at home were we have not scored. Boro just can not break down teams who sit bback against us at the Riverside. Has anyone mentioned that a midfield player who can unlock a defence is needed? (only joking)

C'Mon Boro!

Yes AV this script was so easily followed we actualy didnt need to turn up.

I am afraid i now agree with most. Square pegs again. Late goal again. Johnson our only main threat taken out with double marking like Downing was. We were lucky all the other contenders lost last night the Mags must be rubbing their hands in glee.
All last years failings were there for all to see.

This team has lost all its confidence and will not get it back with out somebody to freshen things up. Just cannot understand the goalkeeping Jones has done nothing wrong but Coyne seems to give the back four more confidence. If we keep it like this stubborn manager, stuborn chairman I fear much more of the same.

Surely this man now has to go!!!

Three years and we are in a worse situation than when he took over. How many more times have we to sit watch a poor team, made to look better than they are, snatch three points away from us in the last 10 mintues of a game.

Bit of "Deja vu" - first 10 game of this season virtually the same as last. Good start, then begin throwing points away. Lets hope the rest of the season doesnt also follow the same apttern.

We have all had a good laugh at the pantomime going on over recent months at the "toon", but they are the ones having the last laugh now. They are punishing teams week after week and heading back to the prem.

Looking at our record - one point out nine in last three games, already lost two games at home, only beaten those in the bottom half of the table - that IS NOT the form of team to fight for promotion.

We need something to shake the club up and get it back on track before its too late.

"We shall learn from this."

Late goals conceeded against West Brom, Late goals conceeded against Coventry, Late goals conceeded against Leicester. Last Season away to Liverpool, two very bad late goals. What exactly is it we have learnt?

If the manager were a pupil in one of my classes, he would be in the corner of the room facing the wall, with a Dunce's hat on his head!

I've always been behind GS, but now I think the best thing for Boro is a change of manager - to beat the teams that come here and sit back we need a Riverside 12th man and wont get that with GS at the helm. Dig deep Gibbo!

We also need a new striker, a big guy up front... Now, not when Folan gets better in six weeks. We cant afford any of the above though. Does anyone know any Billionare Arabs?

I managed to connect to Radio Tees for the first time this season, unfortuanately I fell lucky with the wrong match, still it could have been WBA.

Then to listen to Mr Southgate prattling on, saying we are only three points off SECOND place, as I recall, not saying anything about being probably eight points behind Newcastle if they win tonight. And after only TEN games. Still there is always Saturday and Reading. Is this the team that has not won at home for,.... how long??

Now is the time for Southgate to go. Never mind the best start for 15 years. Sitting 4th in the league. If we can't beat teams like Leicester who to be honest were woeful then we have no chance against the better teams of this divison.

Terrible decisions again. Left winger playing right. Right winger comes on to play left? No idea in defence and an awful goalkeeper who gets in because of the WBA result. Lowest crowd ever. Come on Gibson come down from your ivory tower and do the right thing for the sake of MFC.

To me football = pride & passion which is why we support it. Over the past 3 seasons we haven't seen much of it from MFC and are currently the laughing stock of the north-east - and probably everywhere else at present.

This matters to us in our workplaces, pubs and clubs and we need someone to put PRIDE back into our club. We are better than this and will rise again, BUT we need someone who can inspire, lead and motivate the team, (this is no time for novices) - we cannot afford to be a learning curve anymore.

Success breeds success and that is what we've been starved of. If you have any pride left GS, do the decent thing and resign.

Let me just finish eating this biscuit....

OK, we don't have a top class goalkeeper, average full bucks, nothing in midfield and strikers who can't score. Players have been brought in on a budget that is not sufficient to power a promotion drive. This is not the fault of GS. He can only work with what he is given. That we are in the position we are is a minor miracle.

Once again to all the detractors....who would you appoint as manager and which players would you bring in? (assuming they would come in the first place)

Southgate is quoted as saying on the BBC match report: "Expectations are high here - people expect us to go straight back up"

Hmmmmmmm.

Judging by the attendances for the last two league games I don't see the fans expectations being that high! Looks like GS is trying to lower them even further. Any lower and we'll be limbo'ing under the bar of expectation.

Don't worry, we will learn from this , we will go back to the training ground & roll our sleeves up!

Listening to the interviews I find it difficult to countenance the man's arrogance . If he had a shred of dignity he would have gone after Cardiff. Please Gareth go & take your inept coaching staff with you.

Always remember this is the man who signed & played ahead of Tuncay - GOOK ..

Enough said

Dave Connor; you dont change do you! Those who support Southgate are pathetic eh? Just like those who said Schwarzer was a busted flush old son. My, how wrong YOU were on that one.

Thanks for the facts, although I think we were all 'alive' to those!! For what its worth, I have been desperate for Gate to succeed and have supported him. Now though, I just cant see how we're improving. Ten games played, late goals conceded in five of them. Square peggism, new signings relegated to the bench already.

What is glaringly obvious is the amount of poor signings Gate has made. Whichever way you look at it he has wasted a lot of money. I know his hands were tied to a greater degree than his predecessors but what money he has had has largely been squandered. I dont blame him for Alves; that one was done over his head. I also blame KL/SG for allowing a transfer policy over many years that was bound to get us where we are today. Old players, no resale value = trouble.

If we had debts of £80+ million why the hell did we buy Alves? The whole malaise surrounding the club has been developing for years, and has been allowed to happen by the two at the top.

This squad is good enough to challenge for the top two and in truth that is what it's doing but not to the expected standards. However, time after time the same old failings occur and Gareth seems unable to address these.

This troubles me deeply, especially as he was a prime mover during my happiest time as a Boro fan. I'll never forget him holding the cup aloft that February afternoon but maybe it is time for Southgate to bid us all adieu.

AV, I have a journo question for you.

The Gazette boys are our link to what happens at the club. Ali and co are comfy companions for MFC and wont rock the boat, we all saw what happened when Bernie posed pertinent points.

As an example. Does anyone actually pose the question why Johnno spent an hour on the right wing? Even when a right winger, Yeates, came on he square pegged on the left leaving Johnno square pegged on the right.

It was clearly nonsense to many in the stand. We didnt try to stretch them and get to the bye line. We constantly were turning inside and compressing the play.

Does no one raise these type of questions? Or is it the case that it has to be done by you providing the medium and hints for us to fire the bullets? To preserve the special relationship between club and the Gazette.

These issues are not about finances, how good the players are, is the squad stretched too thinly. They are simple issues about are we getting the best out of what we have. There is no need to get confrontational though I suspect it would be treated as a non question requiring a non answer following studious deliberations.

The paucity of the West Brom performance is shown by their subsequent results. Teams failing around us is of little consequence unless we get the best out of what we have.

**AV writes: You say Radio Brownlee are the comfy companions but the most abrasive immediate questions about the game tend to be asked by them. Mark Drury gets first bite with the pitchside interviews which are live and direct so not only does he ask the tricky and pertinent questions about 'what the hell happened out there and why?' you can also hear the nuances, stutters and prevarication in the answers. It can be extremely gripping and revealing stuff. I am usually stood next to him while that is going on and I get it on my dictaphone for reference but once it has been out there in another source it loses immediate news value for us.

The problem with the press is that they are asking questions for different deadlines. The nationals will ask questions with tomorrow's intro in mind but also they want a line for their Saturday morningmatch preview piece, Eric speaks one -to-one with Southgate but he has to be aware that the Beeb have had a crack and the nationals and the Echo are out first so he needs a line that moves it on. That means his questions will tend to look forward rather than back at the match just gone.

I spoke to Gary O'Neil and David Wheater after the game but with one eye on writing something for before the Reading game that will not be dated. That is why the blog is so valuable because I can raise these issues while they are still fresh and get an immediate response before the reality, perspective and heavy medication kick in.

The other problem is that if you do raise tactical questions with the gaffer - which I have done occasionally on issues like the merits of zonal marking, why not try a five, high tempo pressing further up the pitch - the answers tend to be quite technical and while it is fascinating for we sophisticated Pro-Licenced bloggers it can be very dry and dull on the page and a turn off for a lot of readers so it is hard to sell the idea to the powers that be here when space is at a premium .

The club have shown they don't care what the fans think. No matter how much we moan, argue and beg for mercy it makes no difference. That's why people are just walking away, because they are powerless to change anything and they have NO HOPE of improvement.

Gibbo and lamb are taking the club on a suicide mission. They will get his way. Next year Teesside (or central Middlesbrough!) will have the team Gibbo can afford. It will be all academy products, Southgate will be the manager and crowds will be back to the 14,000 we used to get before Robbo arrived.

BTW I think its funny the sad Leicester fans coming on here looking for a bite are being completely annoyed.

It is commonly and widely accepted that, with a few exceptions, it takes quite a long time for young football players to become skilful and experienced enough to play at the top level. And most of them don’t make it.

Yet all those calling for the head of Gareth Southgate somehow expect him and his coaching staff to transform what we already know to be a mixture of mediocre players and many with little experience, into a team of world-beaters.

And before all and sundry shout as one about them being Gareth Southgate’s Team, we MUST remember that this is a squad that has been assembled on a SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED BUDGET, not set by Southgate, but imposed upon him.
Not even Fabio Capello could make a silk purse out of this particular sow’s ear!

If the manager and coaching staff were changed, would the existing squad be good enough to gain promotion AND SUSTAIN A PRESENCE in the Premier League?

My answer to that question is “Certainly not!!” In which case, the issue and the solution doesn’t lie with the manager, it lies elsewhere. It lies in the boardroom, with the man who makes the money available and the one who also makes the managerial appointments, Steve Gibson - that is the Steve Gibson who reduced the budget, who reined in the debts, who restructured the finances starting as far back as Eindhoven, when his eyes smarted at the prospect of paying to renew Viduka’s contract and the Steve Gibson who appointed Gareth Southgate as manager and who has overseen the decline of the last three years.

The financial restructuring MAY have been deemed necessary and the Rockliffe Park Development MAY have been an investment for the future but the present state of the Boro squad is testimony to the fact that ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, in recent years, Steve Gibson has short-changed the ordinary people who have supported HIS football club.

This may sound harsh, disrespectful and even ungrateful to those who have come to view Steve Gibson as one step short of a saint. But it’s none of those. It’s no more than a statement of fact and the current reality. It would be true of any financial sugar-daddy with whom the real world has caught up.

With Steve Gibson in control at Boro, the club is constrained to the type of club that Steve Gibson wants, is content with or can afford. Middlesbrough Football Club is dependant on Steve Gibson’s financial backing. That, from recent experience, is limiting to the extent that we’re all now witnessing with Boro’s sliding status in the even this poor Championship league. The ceiling has been reached and in recent years, it appears to have been lowered.

In a way this situation is a mirror image of Leeds United. They spent too much on players, gambling on Champions League presence and the prospect of big TV money which would pay for the debt. In contrast, Boro spent too little gambling on Premier League survival to enable them to keep the players they had.

Both strategies failed! But who suffers most? The perpetrators or the supporters? Ridsdale goes off and starts all over again with Cardiff while the Leeds United supporters are left with League 1 football. Gibson is left with all of his businesses intact and an enhanced portfolio of capital interests, having developed Rockliffe Park, while the sporting price of HIS strategy is paid by Boro supporters.

Those who seek to blame Southgate for Boro’s fall from grace should be looking beyond the manager. The trouble is, because it’s Gibson’s money, they consider him to be untouchable (which he may be – other than by mass protest and non-attendance, which would damage his business and the football club that people are fighting to save anyway). So Southgate becomes nothing more than a scapegoat.
THAT is the harsh reality. And I, personally, find it abhorrent and frustrating that the root cause of the issue goes unresolved and people seem content to simply paper over the cracks.

But as I said earlier – it’s reality - and I’m sure that amongst the thinking people of Middlesbrough, if not Teesside, Keith Lamb will soon be elevated to status of Philosophical Guru, to add to his many other, less complimentary, descriptions.

Grove Hill Wallah - Steve Coppell or Lawrie Sanchez.... both are available and surely could do no worse than Southgate has.

No point asking Gibbo to do anything about the situation. He wasn't there last night either.

The whole thing is bizzare. Either Gareth and his coaching staff are clueless, or they are working from ideals from above, having said that who would WE (you know who), replace them with? Well I'm sure theres a former International or even anyone for that matter with no experience that THEY could mould into the next MFC robot

Please forgive obviously an A was missing. But then again maybe he never got an A Badge if he ever took his coaching courses thank you for highlighting this spelling error

Before the start of the season, somewhere on this blog, i said i expect Cooper to be the next gaffer. Gibson will appoint from within. I think Soopa Coopa will beat Aggers in a winner takes all arm wrestle.

Someone please remind me what Alan Smith is being paid to do again?

Well said Richard. At last we have a post that goes beyond " the manager is useless" and looks at deeper issues concerning the ownership and stewardship of the club.

Strachan, McAllister, Sanchez and Coppell....

Do me a favour. I said viable options not risible options.

I've always supported GS but I'm beginning to wonder if he can ride this one? The lack of support 'on the terraces' is becoming a real problem.

One area I would still support the manager though. The sale of Huth has had a massive impact on the defence and in turn on the team. I'm sure Southgate didn't want to sell him, but this could well be the final nail in his coffin.

I will, however, always be able to distinguish between the player and the manager.

GS says that the players are inexperienced and are learning. Was it not said at the start of the season that the squad that kicks off the new campaign will be stronger and more experienced as it was identified from last season disaster that was what was missing. Where is the experience?

I was actually thinking of going to the match on my way home from work last night - I hypothesised during the drive that it was going to be 'one of those nights'.

How many points do we need to drop before he gets sacked? After ten games what was Gibson's target?

Having read all of the posts on this thread so far, a few have resonated.

Last season, Boro got off to a flier in the Premiership. That was until opposition managers saw where our "strengths" were and took tactical action to counter them. We also got into the player outage regime and didn't have strength in depth, which didn't help.

This season, we got off to a flier but the opposition have now got us rumbled. They know where are our "strengths", well, let's generously call them "biggest threats" to them. So they set their stall out to play their game that neutralises Boro's best bits - not that they're great to begin with, frankly.

The Leicester press had quoted Nigel Pearson as lamenting Leicester's inability to play for the full 90/95/96 minutes, or whatever the duration of a match is these days and that it had lost them the game last Saturday. However, he also acknowledged that they'd studied Boro's match videos from WBA and Coventry and one look at the stats will also confirm that Boro are no great shakes in that department either.

I also noticed that Boro's best spell of pressure on Leicester was in the last half hour.

So what to take out of that?

I think Southgate addressed the issue of keeping something back for the latter stages of the match and the dire football of the first hour was probably in no small measure due to the intention of both teams preserving energies for a late assault on or resistance to the opposition. Pearson had done the same! It was interesting to note that both sides substituted two forwards/ attacking midfielders at the same time.

Unfortunately, it worked out for Leicester and Pearson, and less so for Boro and Southgate.

For the longer term, Boro need to develop an alternative front-threat game plan to provide tactical flexibility. I believe Southgate has attempted to address that also with Folan's signing. However, in typical Boro fashion, that flexibility has proved as resilient as Folan's hamstring!

No doubt Southgate will get the blame for a) not securing the services of someone better than Folan and b) Folan's genetics!!

However, detracters should ponder on a) is a function of who's available at what cost (dictated by Gibson) and I won't even try to elaborate on (b)!

I have battled through a nasty chest infection to attend the West Brom, Coventry and Leicester games. I don't which is worse, my malady or the pain I have been put through watching the Boro. Things have to improve on both fronts, but for now I will concentrate my thoughts on Boro.

I have said for a long time now that we lack leadership both on and off the field. We all know that SG will not sack GS, because he can't afford to bring in a new backroom staff. Managers come as a package these days and they all want their own coaches, physios, masseurs, hair stylists, tea ladies etc...

We can all rant and rave that we want Southgate out, but I doubt very much that it will happen, solely down to spondulicks. This being the case, the club need to look at what they can remedy 'in-house'.

I don't profess to be an expert by any means but I think if they could persuade Alan Smith to take a more hands on role, or think about bringing in someone to help Southgate with his tactics and management skills - that would be a start.
People have mentioned names already on this Blog. It doesn't matter how big the name is as long as he has the experience required. Enough said...

Richard

Of course it's not ONLY Mr. Southgate's fault. I agree with the vast majority of what you say about Gibbo and The Count and the economics and business model of MFC.

Of course, as professsionals, the players hold a lot of responsibility too. But they're hardly busting a gut to support their manager in his time of need. What does that say?

But, that accepted, and given that Gibbo, The Count and Mr. Southgate went into this continuing arrangement with their eyes open and with the manager accepting the strictures he is working under - despite what's said about the competitive wage structure and money available in January - how do you account for what Mr. Southgate has done with the resource he has got available?

To repeat the point I made above, with the repeated errors and the failure to learn, on the field, on the training ground and in the transfer market, I believe it is demonstrable that the manager has added no value - and can be shown to have actually done the opposite.

As I said, he's repeatedly made the whole less than the sum of the parts. That's the indictment that can and must be held against him.

I also believe that if we were ever to be allowed the benefit of an experienced manager with the right qualities - or indeed such a person would work under the strictures that Mr. Southgate accepeted - then the outcome would demonstrate beyond question that it is possible to do a lot better with the resource at disposal than is currently being done.

If we aren't going to be allowed that benefit then there really is no point in Mr. Southgate going but then we're set for a very long stay in this division - or worse.

It's also, sadly, the case that there will be no queue round the block for Mr. Southgate's services when he finally does leave Boro. And for that, Gibbo and The Count hold some responsibility too.

I still say all of this more in sorrow than in anger with Mr. Southgate because he is still the decent guy and Boro player hero that we all knew him to be. I'd have loved it if things had worked out for him at Boro - but they haven't and they're not going to.

But my first loyalty is not to him (or to Gibbo, much less The Count) it's to Boro. And Boro will be better off without him if he can be replaced with a quality, experienced guy.

Have we reached crisis point if Gibbo has joined the "stay at home" fans for the Leicester game.

The points raised regarding the club’s financial situation being the reason for our downfall obviously carries some credence. However to suggest that GS is not at fault is really letting him off very lightly.

Here is a manager who to this very day, doesn’t know his best two full backs, his best centre back pairing, his best midfield combination, nor his best strike force.
How can he possibly know his best overall team when he doesn’t even know his best positional combinations?

Is this sad phenomena linked to the fact that GS cannot get the best from his squad as many other managers tangibly do so week in week out?

The match stats show that Leicester had as many shots on target as the home side. They hit the post also.

A totally stupid bit of creative writing. There has only been a few away games at this stage of the season. Shame that against such a poor side you were unable to win - what does that make you?

Oh Lord, I remember some pretty dire 45 minutes in my long Boro history, particulary in the mid '80's just before the crash, but last night was outstandingly bad!

We debated pre match in the Nav all the usual arguments regarding Southgate and why, despite almost everyone I know wanting him to resign or be fired, he will stay for a while yet, but despite some talent in this side, he simply cannot get his team out on the pitch fired up and ready to have a go.

This is simply very poor leadership. This young team does lack leadership on the pitch, but there is no leadership from the managerial team either! The lads don't stand a chance! Couple that with bizarre tactics week in week out, and it's a recipe for failure.

Whether Gibson gets the message pretty soon I don't know, but Chris is right in his comments above. A new manager brings fresh financial pressures that we have spent all summer trying to reduce .. . and unless there is a real change of tactic from Gibson (or the reason he hasn't allowed Southgate to spend is that he has kept a few million back just in case he has to bow to the inevitable and replace the manager), we will continue to suffer.

I feel genuinely sorry for GS, He is now on the slippery slope ,the penny has finally dropped with thousands more fans that the manager cannot manage, Its only Gibson who is totally convinced that gareth is the man to resurrect our fortunes.

It gets ugly from here on in, The fans are now fighting amongst themselves, on the message boards, in the pubs and even at the Riverside Stadium. Was it only three years ago we were in Europe? We have slipped so far down the football ladder in terms of player quality it is embarrasing,

Who is to blame? We cant put it all down to economic factors, I would prefer to put it down to rank bad management and planning presided over by Steve Gibson, .Keith Lamb ... and poor beleaguered Gareth Southgate. You have got us into this mess so whats the plan lads?

AV: Exactly! You have examined club : "structurally, tactically, financially, culturally and have taken it to task in terms of its marketing, stewarding, PR and scouting "

Any chance of casting your eye over the manager and his selection and use of players? Brentford Boro's 200 word assessment was much more searching than anything I've seen in the press or on the TV. It must have taken him all of 10 minutes to rattle it off but I yet to see anything in the press or TV that views the situation from his angle i.e. that the manager has not done a good job.

All we are getting is 'chaf' from the press and mind numbing fatalism from the GS fan club. Too often you describe those who have no confidence in Gareth in pejorative terms. The manner in which the club and the Gazette handle the 'debate' is not 'straight'. It's done in bad faith.

You wouldn't dare do a poll on Gareth's approval rating.

For some reason you and the club try to turn it back onto the fans - the appalling performance over the last three years is nothing to do with Gibson, Lamb, Southgate it's the fault of the inadequate and ungrateful hordes from Brambles Farm, Grangetown, Marton, Redcar, Doggie, Stockton (Black Cats), Eston, Whitby, Stokesly ..... .. .. and all the 'Woolly Back' villages over the hills.

It isn't working - I can't see how you ever thought we would swallow it ?

**AV writes: You must be reading a different paper to me. The one I read took apart the players, the selections, the tactics, the substitutions, the motivation, the management and pretty much the entire football philosophy just about every Monday last year in the post match analysis and comment last year.

Southgate's stats have been number-crunched and exposed on a regular basis and the bankrupt transfer policy has been dissected too. We have had countless polls on Southgate's position. Throughout last season they seemed to feature as 'poll of the day' if not weekly certainly fortnighly on gazettelive. There has been no shirking of the big questions at all. There never is.

That is part of the analysis and opinions aspect of our job. You seem to be more concerned with our being "on message" when it comes to relaying what the club tell us is their position on the big issues which is the news side of the job. We ask questions then write up the answers. If you don't accept them, don't believe them or think it is just smoke and mirrors, fine, you are perfectly entitle to that stance (as professional cynics we may often agree), but that is the way the press works.

Why doesnt Gareth play the players in their right positions? Why is Gary O'Neil on the right and not in the middle in his most effective position? Why were Johnson and Yeates playing on the wrong wings?

Williams like Bates before him were playing in midfield as emergency stop gaps so why are they undropable? They arn't considered good enough to play in their proper positions. What happens when Digard is fully fit again? Will it be Digard and Williams in the middle?

We need good tackling ball winners in midfield Digard and O,Neil with wingers Yeates and Johnson playing on their correct wings to attack and create for the forwards but quite frankly whoever is paired together up front doesn't matter they are all going to struggle, Emnes and Aliadere are too lightweight and Lita never looks like anywhere near scoring

Worrying times and Southgate hasn't even got a clue who to play in defence!!

Unless the backroom staff can understand what they have been getting wrong, it is unlikely they will be able to find a way of putting things right for the future.

Things to look out for are comments like:

1. "I couldn't ask for anything more of the players" (which implies no improvement is going to be possible).

2. "They (insert club name) were very organised and made things difficult for us..." (we should expect other teams to be organised and not to lie down for us, but is there any reason why our backroom staff doesn't try to organise OUR team and try to make it difficult for our opponents?).

I think everyone on this blog has had enough of the old square peg in round hole syndrome. When they start putting Brad Jones on the left wing, Adam Johnson at centre half and Leroy Lita in goal we will know they really are taking the Mickey. But realistically I don't expect to see that until November.

I might have missed it (yes, I do buy the Gazette and I am sure I bought one today but for some reason can't lay my hand on it this evening....), but have questions been asked why people seem so regularly to be played out of position, like Yeates being on the left wing when elsewhere on the pitch we have easily the best left winger in the division? And about substitutions - not specifically last night but generally - these have often been surprising. Wouldn't a Paxman-type interview be illuminating?

One issue now is that supporters might find it difficult to believe the answers. Trust is leaking away down the drain. No doubt a diplomatic injury, a "tweaked this" or a "pulled that" would be trotted out and, the player having "recovered" for the next game, we would never know whether the explanation was true or not.

Half full or half empty? If this goes on many people will cease to care and the 18K at the Riverside yesterday will be greatly reduced in the months to come.

**AV writes: We have asked for a hard hitting, no holds barred verbatim Q&A with Gareth. As we have with Gibson in the past. One of the reasons the powers that be are reluctant is that they know exactly the reaction they will get from appearing on BBC Tees etc - everyone takes the bits out that most annoy them and fashions them into weapons to beat the club with. We have discussed this on the blog.

If they answer questions honestly and admit to mistakes it is taken as a confession of guilt and used as ammuntion for renewed calls for resignations and public flagellation. If they answer them with dipiomatic fudge it is evidence of disrespectful spin, cover-ups and sinister conspiracy. And it is worst in print because people can reread it, deconstruct it and file it away for future refrence. There is a concrete quality to print you don't get with radio. That won't stop us asking but it goes some way to explaining why they say no.

John Powls @ 4:35PM 30 Sept:

Not sure how to interpret the following remark John: "Of course, as professsionals, the players hold a lot of responsibility too. But they're hardly busting a gut to support their manager in his time of need."

If you mean they're not all running up to a microphone and telling the world what a great manager SG is - or beating a path to the Gazette's front door for the same purpose, is that really any surprise? When did you EVER see or hear a bunch of individual players ever pro-actively rally round their manager in such a fashion, supporting him in the face of supporter pressure.

They may do so individually when collared by the media and asked leading questions sometimes. But I haven't seen anything of that nature come into the public domain yet. And given the lengths that Southgate goes to publicly "protect" his players from such supporter pressure by absorbing it himself, I'm sure that those leadership qualities are appreciated by each of them. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, however.

The other point I'd make in response, is to ask what evidence there is to support the contention that those players selected are doing anything other than giving their own individual 100%s? I genuinely don't see ANY evidence of lack of effort on the pitch. I see lack of capability. I see poor judgement. I see lack of imagination, foresight, anticipation and height, but I don't see any lack of effort or wilful shirking - such as we witnessed in Yakubu in the final stages of his tenure with us.

So to try build a case against Southgate on him not getting effort or support from his players is in my view, misleading, mischievious and just plain wrong.

He has demonstrated intolerance of bad and self-serving attitudes in players by weeding out (e.g. Mido, Alves, Turnbull) or otherwise taking to task truculant attitude and self-serving behaviours. In doing so, he's given the impresssion of adopting all the right values required of a good leader. He's treated them all fairly - even though their own attitudes didn't warrant it - and has done so firmly and with dignity.

If people feel the need to build cases against Gareth Southgate as Boro Manager, then for goodness sake let's stick to demonstrable facts, RELEVANT measurable criteria for which he is solely responsible and which unambiguously demonstrate personal incompetence in the light of all possible mitigating circumstances. Anything short of that is unsatisfactory in judging him and is pure scapegoating and makes Boro's future recovery even less tenable!

Because you can then add to the reduced financial support available, an executive regime that doesn't treat it's management or other employees fairly. Do THAT and you remove one of the value-principles that has positively distinguished Boro from many other clubs.

Finally John, it's entirely conjectural - not demonstrable to the point of greater than 50% probability, let alone certainty - that Southgate has "repeatedly made the whole less than the sum of the parts".

In making such judgements, you assume that you know what the sum of the parts actually looks like. You make value judgements on individuals which are notional, based largely on heresay and without form or measure. Given that most of Boro's playing staff are now very young, many have little or no Premier League experience and some have been recruited from lower leagues at low cost, what do you expect?

THAT'S a function of available money - not of poor management at team level!

All that said, I suspect that without some considerable additional financial backing from Steve Gibson, that enables some really useful playing acquisitions to be made, the writing IS on the wall for Gareth Southgate.

I do believe that he has it in him to be a great manager in the right circumstances. The poison chalice that he was handed when appointed by Gibson will have turned out not to be the great first managerial opportunity he may have thought it was in the beginning. But you'll never hear Gareth Southgate speak ill of Boro, or of Steve Gibson, or be unfairly critical of anyone other than himself.

The man is a true leader. But regretably, the good guys don't always win their battles - like when popular moderate opinion is swayed to tipping point by the howling cries of the delusioned bully-boys - as in pre-war Germany.

The above post is mint! i like it TeesExile

Sad to see us slowly (?) desolve into Championship mediocrity - and it is not a stellar league by any means - when several of our cast-offs are doing it in the Premiership. Cattermole, Parnaby, Quedrue and off course the Aussie stopper. It'll be quite a while before we can attract 'name' players to Riverside

John, Aus

Tees Exile, Ah divvent knaa what yee mean man.

Though I like your idea of calling Buoycoutts - It sounds like an excellent offshore bank. Perhaps Gibson can get into his canoe and borrow some much needed cash before disappearing in the Channel Islands.

Overall your argument seems to be based on the fans knee-jerk reaction to a blip - when in reality the blip under Southgate looks more likely to be the few victories against poor Championship opposition.

So I'm calling for a Boycott - As I think the no nonsense blunt talking former English opener is just what the Boro need to get the players into shape.

Stockport Wiggy

My poor attempt at humour was about the fact we are more likely to get a hat trick of own goals from any one of our strikers than a hat trick into the opposition net.

Richard -

I make my judgement on players' attitudes - like we all do - from what I see in front of me on a football field every time Boro turn out.

Sometimes it's also about who doesn't appear on the field or who disappears from it when the opportunity arises for them to.

I'm not interested in badge kissing or stage managed press opportunities in support of 'the gaffer'. Actually, we've been spared much of that to date, thank goodness.

If you think that some of the recent displays and quite a lot last season by players now departed and some still at Boro indicate unalloyed support for the manager then you and I will have to differ.

Objectively, we would only really know if the whole is less than the sum of these parts if another manager got the job but I believe that last season, in different hands, Boro had enough resource to have stayed up.

The litany of repeated faults that we all rehearse on here so often and that have to be down to the manager about how the resource is used, individually and collectively, is just being repeated this season in a much worse division with depleted resources.

I need no sermons on what Gate is a bloke. I acknowledged that in what I said and I have personal experience to support my view. But it's not about that, is it?

Tees-exile - 'the division is there for the taking for any side that gets it's act together'.... Just when do you think Boro will ever get it's act together?

We have a manager who can't manage, who knows he is sack-proof. You would think professional pride would be impetus enough for Southgate to get it right on the pitch, but it's not happening. He constantly plays people out of position, has no plan B, and cannot use substitutes effectively.

This has been going on since he was first made manager. It is not a new thing. We get worse with every season he's in charge. Relegated last year, and we've started this season exactly the same way as we did the last, with a couple of victories, before going on the slide. People refused to accept the possibility of relegation from the Premiership, but it happened. Relegation to League One is also a possibility.

We might still be only three points off a promotion place, but look at the teams below us. If we drop points against Reading, and the teams below us win, we are down to TENTH or lower. Is that acceptable to you?

The club is now Gibbo and Lambs cash cow. £40m in if you count the Luke Young and Lee Cattermole sales PLUS the parachute payment. How much out?

Southgate keeps his job because as far as Gibbo and Lamb are concerned he is doing a good job. Don't forget a new manager would want money made available and they won't have that. More sales to come in the next 12 months Wheater, Williams, Johnson etc, to fund Gibbo's other interests. Until Gibbo gets his eye on the ball again and is not distracted by other projects expect the club to continue to flounder.

**AV writes: Boro a cash cow? You do realise there are massive debts don't you. Gibbo doesn't take the transfer income and spend it on fast cars and loose women you know. He gives it to the bankers... who spend it on fast cars and loose women.

Redcartim makes a valid point regarding the spine of the team and the personnel who should form the basis of it.

Steve Gibson himself in the interview on Tees referred to the lack of experience in the squad but nothing has been done about it presumably for financial reasons.

Surely particularly at home Lita has to be given a run of games.He is the only one we have with a track record of scoring at this level.

Quite possibly another coach might get a slightly greater response from the players but anybody sitting there thinking that as soon as Southgate leaves Emnes is going to turn into a free scoring centre forward or that McMahon and Grounds /Bennett are going to be the next Cafu/Roberto Carlos full back partnership I'm afraid is in for a very rude awakening.

Burp! Was that post 100?

**AV writes: No. *raises flag for offside*

Interesting interview with David Wheater in The Daily Mail - have a look here: http://tinyurl.com/ye9qjrw.

Given the current temperature maybe someone from the Boro's PR department should have warned him that pleading for time for Southgate was more likely to alienate Wheater from the fan base. Rational it may not be but there's a danger that anyone who lines up with Southgate will be seen as 'one of them'.

Tees Exile:

"Unity is Strength" - agreed, but the enabler of unity is leadership and I don't see that on or off the field, by the Manager, the Chief Executive or the Chairman

The only other point I would make is that the feelings of what appears to be an increasingly vocal and ever growing majority have developed over a period of more than three years as a consequence of a consistent pattern of ineptitude and failure such that the odd run of decent performances/results is seen as a deviation from the norm...

Which brings me to Richard (several, but particularly 1.03am)

Firstly, regarding Gareth Southgate. Richard, GS has set records of failure - in terms of results and related measures of performance - that may stand for the next one hundred years. He has consistently bought players that have subsequently been sold at a substantial loss. The number of times we have conceded goals late in matches, or have failed to sustain winning positions, or have failed to recover from conceding first all testify to a lack of managerial ability...

Of course, there are mitigating circumstances and questions of context, however, at a subjective level, I'm confident that a detailed analysis of comparative 'resources' and 'support' and 'freedom to do the managers job' would show that GS actually had a situation significantly better than many of those managers who achieved more than he did

Secondly, none of the above undermines your broader argument regarding Steve Gibson and the failure in executive leadership. We are, in reality, deeper in the smelly stuff than most of us have fully given our attention to. Paradoxically, this will come in to sharper focus the longer GS remains in charge, because the failure of SG to act will increasingly turn the spotlight on him and the quality of his thinking and decision making

Although we disagree as regards GS I think you're spot on regarding SG and the way the club is run. As I've said before, I believe that there's a desperate need to bring in fresh blood to the boardroom and to move away from the 'small town' mentality. It's not true either - and I'm not judging whether or not this would be a good thing or not - that there are no potential foreign investors out there who would be interested in Middlesbrough FC

It is poor foresight, narrow thinking, bad decision making and flawed strategies that have brought us to where we are today. One of those bad decisions was the appointment of GS, and had we had a more capable and experienced manager the impact of the failed executive leadership may have been less than it is

Cheap shot AV! It's only because we find your blog rivetting!

My money is on Richard for the Big 100, too. Sadly my finishing is as lethal as was "unlucky" Alves. No gold watch then!

Werdermouth: You beat me to it.

Teesexile: : (you can get some good anagrams out of that)

I suppose your last effort is what's known as an 'hard' e-mail. I've yet to read more slogans and cliches per inch. As Werdermouth says you seem to have missed the point. The West Brom experience was the norm for the last 3 years the Shef Wednesday win was the blip.

Following on from that theme 'we' don't need to look hard for excuses to 'stick the knife in' we got needlessly relegated last year and got tonked 5-0 at home to a team that can't beat Barnsley !!!

The idea that the problem lies with the fans 'lack of bottle' or fickleness is very funny. Gareth will end up like you he'll have to go to Thailand for his next job. Why did the people of Teesside exile you - for talking rubbish? We can be cruel like that

Being a lethal finisher is about keeping a cool head and refusing to panic when presented with an opportunity for glory - Now, can you send somebody round to help get me off these damn hooks...

Amazon UK: Order #16542ef35

Customer: Mr Werdermouth, c/o Untypical Boro, Gazettelive.co.uk

Thank you for your recent order of:

1 X new Arctic Blue Mercedes Benz M Class
1 X Box 50 Hand-rolled Havana Cigars

Billing Address:
Mr Anthony Vickers, c/o Gazettelive.co.uk

Your order will be dispatched by special delivery to:

Richard the lurking poacher
PO Box 1
Boro

Richard - it's OK. I'll send the boys around to have a "chat" with Werdermouth, but since they rarely get much outside Dormo these days, they might have trouble finding Billingham, let alone Bremen.

Good Finish Wedermouth thoroughly deserved.

AV, My memory is not what is was, Did Gibbo announce that the clubs debt had come down to around £30M. We have since raised £30m in sales. No doubt this will be paid in instalments and with the drop in revenue from TV and dwindling gates. Is there still enough money for the club to put down the required 10% deposit to buy my house?

I really want to move and don’t know who else to turn to? As I don’t think I am getting my moneys worth from my season ticket I think this is a service the club should offer. It makes financial sense. The housing market has hit rock bottom and prices can only go up (being an economist as my previous posts have shown).

This would lead to a financial windfall for the club, and also lead to thousand of Boro fans getting started on the property ladder or moving up it. This would lead to a massive surge of goodwill from fans for the club and possibly win back thousands of season ticket holders.

A plan with no draw backs?

**AV writes: That sounds like an exciting new revenue stream.

Mythbuster said: "Were you ever captain of the Titanic?"

Are your sheets dry on a morning? Are people still harping on about the UEFA Cup final? I'm surprised we haven't had a mention of Martin O'Neil yet. That was OVER THREE YEARS AGO.

My God. Move on. Stop living in the past. Let's deal with now - if you really could not enjoy promotion, then maybe you should take a break from Boro. I cannot imagine how depressing some of you must be to live and work with.

I think investigating new revenue schemes are the way forward. Taking Rayanair and Man Utd as the shining light in this field. I think Man U charge their Season ticket holders for home cup games automatically whether or not thy wish to attend.

I think the club could easily introduce the following plans.

We all bang on about no loyalty in football. What about the fans? Every season ticket holder who does not attend the game should have their account debited a quarter of the match fee. I’m big enough to admit that so far this season that would see me about £15 out of pocket. But I deserve this punishment. Where was I when Lloyd Dyer and Chris Brunt were making monkeys out of my hero’s! I should have been there!

Also turnstiles on the way out for those wishing to leave before the final whistle. Got some where more important to be?? Turncoats. Any others?

**AV writes: How about a pay-per-curse scheme that will allow premium customers the chance to get up real close for a post-match barracking? Maybe access to a special run-the-gauntlet pitchside walkway that fans with a Boo-ro Pride style membership can really give then both barrels.

We've got no chance at Reading anyway, Southgate or not. They haven't won at home since January, we all know that Typical Boro will strike here.

Lita has to play, I'd suggest.

Lita in for Emnes, Digard in for McMahon, Williams to right back.

AV I think were onto something here.

I think players & Manager’s wages should be paid to them in the centre circle, after the final whistle of the final home game of the month. Imagine the response the players would have got after the Leicester game. Any wages not collected goes into a supporters charity (buying my home).

Maybe I should save this as we lurch towards the 200th post, but players who are taken off in disgrace, think Alves. Instead of going down the tunnel or sitting on the bench should have to walk down to the North stand. In the corner there will be a new pink erection, a Wendy house for them to sit in. That should liven them up!

If you think I should have better things to do with my time you haven’t heard my revolutionary idea for extra time yet.

**AV writes: I'm loving the wendy house thing.

Boro Phil

Thats better, Typical Boro is contagious!

BoroPhil wrote:

"Let's deal with now - if you really could not enjoy promotion, then maybe you should take a break from Boro."

Are you Steve Gibson?

Borophil, What's all the recent prediliction for "bedwetting" among you ra-ra's anyway? Here and on the messageboards? Is bedwetter the latest buzzword for your dictionary? Think up your own insults if need be, or you just show yourself up as another bandwagon rider.

You seem to think people who want Southgate out are panic merchants. Nothing could be further from the truth. Failure to panic early enough last season cost us relegation. Do you want to go through that again? Because this season has started off in a similar fashion to last season.

Southgate's had three years in the job, and spent over £50m of Gibson's money producing the current team in a lower division than what he started in. Is that progress? Is that the sign of a competent manager?

You obviously think such failure deserves support, and I bet you vote Labour in next year's election, too. Do yourself a favour. Go to the nearest asylum and have yourself committed.

Gareth's comments about the irony of people calling for him to lose his job and contrasting it with the Steelworkers plight was enlightening.

If he worked at the steelworks and had electricians doing the fitters work and fitters wiring up the plant..... .anyway you can see where this is going. Square pegs etc!

I honestly don't believe he has a grasp on things at all. I think the whole issue is beyond him now and he is clearly struggling to grasp what and why the fans are exasperated.

He is a thoroughly decent bloke but sometimes good manners and genuine hard work and endeavour are no substitute for acumen and nous. Gibbo either needs to help him or put him out of his misery or perhaps he is conveniently being used as "air bag deployment"?

Ernie, you take life far too seriously. Relax a little, you might enjoy things more.

Are you honestly saying you think we will be relegated this season?

AV,

Looking at all the glory hunters on this website shouldnt we old timers get some privileges. What about a warning of pending 100 postings on a blog or prior warning of landmarks.

Werdermouth has claimed a supercar whilst some of us have many years of devoted service (he isnt Briggsy in disguise is he?).

I am sure that many didnt have to split their postings into multiple parts like us to get them on to space constrained message boards.

Loyalty is a two way street so it is up to you to treet your customers fairly. It would be supreme cant and hypocrisy for you to talk of lack of fan engagement on MFC's part without recognition of time served bloggers.

Supercars and Havanna cigars!

Sir, I look forward to your response.

PS. How close to the magic 200 on a thread? I wont tell, honest.

PPS I have a brilliant picture for a caption competition but it would require your santcion so an email address would be appreciated.

**AV writes: So are you suggesting S and T patron numbers with priority posting should we get to the play-off finals and maybe 10% off an Untypical Boro t-shirt?

The next big landmark is 35,000* which I think should come in the next two weeks. Maybe I will tease you with hints as we close in. You can e-mail me at anthony.vickers@gazettemedia.co.uk but I won't be back in until Monday

*I've updated that figure after checking the big scary control panel thing.,

jc at 6.14pm - That's one of the things we like about this blog: every now and then we learn something new.

Hands up all on here who had never heard of Godwin's Law before. And hands up all those who Googled it after reading jc's post, and then thought "Yes...".

Of course some of the references to bedwetting may be due to the youthful profile of the posters. John Powls and Richard, of course, remember the quill pen with affection and therefore niceties of the internet age might be a surprise to them.

Now, who can we insult next (within the limits of taste and decency, of course)? The players, the manager, He Who Casts No Reflection in the Mirror, or even the Holiest of Holies - the blessed Leader himself? Surely not the supporters again?

It gets to you in the end. Depression after a game has to be banished somehow. Maybe posting here is the best release.

And is this the appropriate time to make a confession? Despite being warned about it, I went up the "wrong" flight of stairs to reach the concourse for the Leicester game. The Newboulds pork and stuffing sandwich was good though, so something positive was had from the evening.

Richard at 10.29pm - "Stands back in wonder". Apologies at doubting you.

Morgan's corollary: "Never attribute to ignorance what can be attributed to bad grammar...." which is a corollary of "never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance/stupidity".

What we could really do with at our club is to get an "A" badge holder with his UEFA Pro Licence to send regular incognito posts to this Blog, dropping odd hints as to how to put things right on the field.

Maybe if the club officials take a sneaky look from time to time, to test the temperature of the fans, they might pick up the odd hint and possibly try to pass it off at the next training session as one of their own.

Maybe we could read rare insights from "French Teacher" or "Rudolph the Red Nose" and mysteriously find them being applied at the next game. Of course some PR might help and "Mad Max" knows a bit about it, though I suspect he's a Spurs fan and, though he's normally very expensive, he does a lot of free work for deserving causes. It could work.....

Incidentally, AV, I hope you are only getting ONE copy of the posts I send, as my computer is doing something odd and I have a slight suspicion it might be sending the stuff more than once. If so, I am sorry. It's not on purpose. Morgan's corollary may have its very own Dormo example.

**AV writes: When I get multiple entries I just assume you are cynically trying to hit the 100 post mark and I just throw them all in the bin.

BoroPhil, the start of this season is mirroring last season as regards result, a good start followed by a slide. This season the team is younger, less experienced, and we still have the same clueless management team.

Lose against Reading and we will be midtable.

People thought we were too good to go down last season, 'there are still three teams worse than us'. Didn't prove so, did it? Having the same lacksadaical attitude this season may spell the same sort of disaster. You need to win games, and Boro are not consistent enough to do that.

We've beaten a couple of poor teams, and been beaten ourselves by half-decent teams. These teams were a division BELOW us last year.

Newcastle have retained a lot of experienced players, whilst we now have a team of mainly academy players. They are at the top of the championship because of that. We were promised experience and greater strength, but those promises have not been delivered on.

Yes, relegation is a possibilty. We shouldn't blind ourselves to it like so many people did last year.

Southgate is a serial failure in management. Each year, under his tenure, we have gotten worse, losing more games, scoring less goals. It's a combination of running down the squad, his lack of man-management, poor tactics, nothing done on the training field ever seeming to sink in with the players, fielding a team with SEVEN defenders in it as standard, two half decent wingers, and two pretend-forwards.

Which way do you see that team going? Up or down?

I was suprised this morning reading an interview in one of the papers with GS. He actually said the players were looking forward to an away game. Obviously they cannot play at home - is this a cry for 'we need a leader on and off the pitch' is it not?

I don't think that the situation at Boro is any different to many clubs in that the fans have turned on the manager. Maybe they are suprised its happening because we are fourth in the league - but the calls for the manager aren't about the position we are in. Its about the way the team has been managed over three and a bit seasons.

People need to get over the past three and a bit seasons and deal with the present. What happened in the past is irrelevant now.

Ernie - if you think we will be relegated, get down to the bookies - you can get 80/1 on us being relegated at the moment. Good luck.

What is, as Gareth puts it "opinion without accountability"? other than just having an opinion or something trivial called free speech or even that old chestnut democracy.

But what form would 'opinion with accountability' take? Should Labour voters expect a knock on the door any time soon "Excuse me sir, I understand you voted Labour at the last election and under new accountability laws we've come to collect your personal share of the £500bn deficit"

Or if a season ticket holder says that Boro under Southgate are useless and then subsequently Boro get promoted maybe then they should be banned from buying a PL season ticket.

Also, if only the supporters had been told last season that the team would look forward to playing away if they were made to feel uncomortable at home - perhaps then we could have avoided our record run of away defeats and subsequent relegation.

I don't think it'a clever strategy to start picking on disgruntled fans as they were not booing 4th place - they were booing a poor performance and only one point from nine.

Is Bruce Rioch available until the end of the season? Bring in Rioch to steady the ship, get the players motivated and concentrate on getting promotion.

"Brucey Riochs red n'white army" now that i can hear ringing beautifully in my ears.

Its a bit rich of Southgate to complain about the moaning, jeering and booing from home supporters and how the team is looking forward to playing away from home.

Hang on, I am trying to understand this twisted logic.I sat and suffered on Tuesday when the first half was akin to being in a library.The second half we belatedly came to life and showed some attacking intent. Then the crowd was waiting for the inevitable, the obligatory late goal from the opposition.We were not disappointed.

I am surprised the atmosphere has not turned uglier much earlier than in this match but what is happening now and in my view its the worst thing to afflict a football club is inertia and drift.

We are stuck in neutral as long as Southgate remains and Gibson continues to support him. I am struggling to even become angry over the current impasse, because of the sheer predictability of how the team is going to perform.

The supporters have shown incredible tolerance and understanding throughout Southgate's tenure- but breaking point has been reached because of his well documented managerial failings appearing again.

It is becoming tiresome repeating the same old mantra of Southgate out- we just have to wait a bit longer because it will happen.

The sad thing is there is the danger of him going becoming nasty and messy which would be unfortunate and undignified.

Andy, I'm 57. Old enough to have seen it all where Boro are concerned, and just see the same mistakes being repeated again and again. What's your excuse for NOT seeing them? Memory span of a goldfish? Myopic? Perhaps that's why you give Blind Faith to a blind Chairman.

How old are you, by the way? Do you understand the game of Football, and the laws of the game, and how it should be played? If so, perhaps you should write to Gareth and explain it all to him.

Hurling insults? I wasn't the one who started with all this 'bed-wetters' crap. People are entitled to their differing opinions. There is no need to insult them, because of that.

You sound like a typical ra-ra, blinding yourself to the decline of the club. It's people like you, defending the indefensible, that just prolong everyone's misery. Gibson's hand has to be forced.

We have a young inexperienced team, led by an equally young and inexperienced management. We were midtable in the Premiership when Southgate took over, and now we're one game away from midtable in the Championship. How long are you prepared to let Southgate continue for?

No one panicked last year, and we were relegated as a result of that. Too many people thought there were at least three teams worse than us. Didn't turn out that way, did it?

Give me one reason why you and others still have faith in Southgate. After three years of failure. Come on. There must be one valid point you can make? Nice guy, nice suits won't cut it, either.

You can't say he's been starved of money because that's a lie. He's spent £50m in his three years here. The current squad should still be capable of beating the likes of Leicester, provided they are coached and led correctly, but this is not happening.

Is there any other club in the WORLD playing with SEVEN DEFENDERS in it's first team? Go on, count them. Jones, Hoyte, Wheater, St Ledger, Bennet, Williams, and Arca all started against Leicester. ALL of them defenders.

We had Johnson and O'Neill playing wide, and two excuses for forwards playing up front. With team selection and tactics like that, is is any wonder we can't score and can't win consistently?

I haven't suddenly gone off Southgate. I've been against his appointment from the start. Two trainee managers in a row was bad enough, but a third is not acceptable.

I gave Robbo and McClaren the benefit of the doubt when they took charge, but turned against both when the standard of football and playing-staff dropped, and so did the results. I'm no newcomer to this game, and I don't wear rose-tinted spectacles. I don't let loyalty to the club blind me to what is happening to it.

Just realised Simon Church plays for Reading these days. I've seen him a few times he's a 'propa' goalscorer.
He'll be too much for our defence. I'll see what odds i can get for a hat trick.

From today's interview with Southgate in the Guardian it looks like tings is pretty bad in the Fuhrerbunker.

Godwin's Law strikes again.

Leicester fan in peace here!

I thought I would check out this board out of interest as we found ourselves in a similar position to you guys last year, in a division we all felt we had no right to be in. unfortunately we were there, for the first time ever, because we deserved it.

However, it wasnt about continuing on the negativity from the previous years it was about using it as a platform to build on and come back stronger. City were 6th I think early in the season and even though we were in the play off places it was doom and gloom.

I would say perspective is needed as your team will stand less of a chance of going up if the supporters arent with them. Fair enough if Southgate loses a couple more then you could say its not good enough but the west brom result was a complete freak result surely?!

A home defeat or two is bound to happen as we found out when we lost to Millwall early on last season. Its easy to comment from the outside but you guys have had some good results this season such as putting three past swansea away who were last season a very good team in the division.

You guys have some new players too who arent to blame for being in this division. The likes of Downing, Tuncay etc are all like our players who left after we went down. our fans realised this and pretty much stuck by all our players last season because they were not to blame. Southgate was let down by his so called stars last year so he is getting a new team together of championship players so maybe he needs more time as its pretty much a new start.

I hope you bounce back as always had a soft spot for Boro cos of the Juninho and Ravanelli years and those cup ties (remember you hammering us at Filbert Street a week or two before the league cup final in 97?).

AV writes: Yes we remember, And Pontus Kaamark, Emile Heskey and Steve Claridge. Thanks for your observations. Sometimes an outside perspective can help shed light on a situation. Not everyone here may agree though.

Redcar Tim,

Ditto all the way mate.

Danny,

Ditto again !

Not long ago Pompey had a top manager, top players an FA Cup and plans for a spectacular new stadium. Today there are reports of the Premier League preparing to step in and rescue Portsmouth from administration.

Where would you rather be now, where Boro are or where Portsmouth are? The answer is a no brainer surely?

We may all be gutted about relegation, no money to buy decent players, the prospect of a stretch in the Championship but we're solvent and stable, not exciting but with grounds for some optimism.

Ernie, if the bedwetting jibes upset you, I apologise. I had no idea you would take it so personally.

Speaking for myself, it's not about having faith in Southgate, it's dealing with the reality of the situation. Steve Gibson is the Chairman. He decides the manager. He has decided Gareth will be in charge for the forseeable future.

I'm a fan. I support the team, whoever is in charge. To be quite honest, I don't care who is in charge. I just want to go to the match, enjoy it, hope we win, and come home. This season, we've won more than we've lost. I'm enjoying it.

Some of you have become totally blinded to what being a fan is. They care more about getting rid of Southgate than about whether we win or not. Some people want us to lose matches, in the hope that it will get rid of the manager quicker. I just can't get my head around any Boro fan wanting their team to lose.

If being a ra-ra means I want my team to win on a Saturday, then so be it.

Nigel said:

"I love the 'bed wetter' handle, much better than RaRa's v chicken runners! I wear my RaRa badge with pride, not sure I'd wear a 'bed wetter' badge though."

You'll be wetting the bed if you come out of nappies. But I guess a RaRa badge also acts as a nappy pin?

Tom l from Leicester,

If David Wheater can become more like the player and Captain Matt Elliot was for you guys under O'Neil can be then I will be well happy. Where is he now ?
See the rest of you at Reading tomorrow, the away atmosphere is class !

Great stuff Ern; I can see the blood vessels bulging. Yep, thought you were pretty old, could tell by how grumpy you seem. I was right about the blood pressure too; listen to the free advice from Andy.

Actually Ern, you just don't read others posts do you? To busy getting angry and hurling insults, you keyboard hero you. I said in a post on this very same thread (30/9) that sadly it might just be time to bid Gareth adieu. I've given him as much time to get it right due to his (former?) status at the club. So tell me where I "defended the indefensible" or did it happen in Ernies world?

No 'fudging' now, I'll be looking for a direct answer on my return. I think you'll find we were lower half of the Prem Ern, not mid table. Read my post; he has bought badly, this season included.

If you had bothered reading instead of blowing off steam again, you could have saved your fingers from getting sore issuing, challenges and being brave. I'm 45 by the way; look good for it as well! Perhaps its because I'm so much younger that I see things differently. The glass may be half empty but the bar might be open soon. Anyway, relax and count to 10 Ern.

Flawed Draw;

I like the banter but you keep letting yourself down. I dont think I started being brave behind the keyboard. "Easy to deal with"; where was that then? All opinions are valid even those more extreme, but you wont find me pitching my tent in that camp. Some of what you said struck a chord but then you said 'Eric knows a footballer when he sees one'. Being of a much younger age, and never having seen the Carr brothers play, I lost interest at that point...

Tom from Leicester

Fans from other clubs are always welcome when they contribute to the debate and dont just come on to cause fights.

Whats all this Bedwetting malarky? I was wetting the Bed last January. I started crapping the Bed last April and now have an "A Level" in Diarrhea! Bedwetting? if only!

Looking forward to Saturday and hearing the travelling Boro army vent a few verses of "score in a minute, your going to score in a minute" around the 85th minute. Self depracating humour!

**AV writes: Maybe he (Southgate) thinks the fans need educating?

Surely, you mean 'learn lessons'.

What do Steve Bruce, Alan Curbishley, Steve Coppell, Tony Mowbray, Bruce Rioch, Brian Clough and Gareth Southgate all have in common?

They managed teams that got relegated.

AV,

How many more years are there to run on GS's contract?
It would appear that SG cannot afford to lose face, or lose money on compensation, so I just wondered how much longer we have with Gareth at the helm.

Thanks
Up the BORO.

**AV writes: This is the start of the fourth year of a five year deal.

I will be one of the away fans cheering on the Boro today.

I was one of the home fans cheering them on against West Brom and Leicester and I didnt boo or be disrectful to the team at half time or final whistle. I must admit that at 4-0 and with a long way to drive I left the West Brom match - only the second time I have left the Rivreside early but as the team hadnt turned up I didnt think they would notice.

On Tuesday, as soon as we started playing the crowd got behind the team. Prior to that it was very difficult to get excited, there was little atmosphere and it wasnt due to the size of the crowd. What played out in front of our eyes was a bit like filling in a tax return. A couple of early runs from Johnno before he was despatched to the right wing and that was it.

Sorry Gate, whilst I understand your viewpoint I think you should look at the fare on offer before you criticise the home crowd. I agree the atmosphere is better away but that is no different to any club.

If you provide dross dont expect us to be enthusiastic about it. If you are served poor food in a restaurant and you complain the manager doesnt come out and berate the customers.

I'm reminded of the lyrics from the James song 'If I hadnt seen such riches I could live with being poor'

**AV writes: Good one. Any more appropriate snatches of lyrics?

Great stuff on here but two things in particular I can't let go.

Tees exile makes a passionate plea for unequivacal support. As you may guess I live in an area surrounded by Geordies and this has been their mantra for years and look where it has got them. Treated like doormats.

This is the sort of attitude that allows football clubs to get away with murder, taking the supporters cash and treating them with contempt. Everybody on here feels passionately about the Boro but having paid through the nose to watch utter dross for the last 3 years, we have every right to voice our opinions.

There is no argument, Gareth Southgate's track record is totally abysmal and Steve Gibson's 'collective responsibility' line is simply deflecting the attention from a very poor decision.

Secondly, Gareth's comments this week were extremely ill advised. Suggesting that the response from the fans says something about the type of people who follow the club or the current state of the game is disgraceful and demonstrates just how out of touch this supposed 'man of the people' has become.

The type of people who follow this club are generally hard working people for whom following the Boro is an extremely expensive obsession and who, to be honest, have demonstraed admirable patience and good humour over this period due to a residual admiration they have for Gareth Southgate the player.

Nobody is suggesting every other team is better than us but we are suggesting they all have more effective managers then us because you know what, they have, bar none. Paul Sturrock has some successful periods in his track record, GS has none.

I will still watch the team because I love the club and the town and I enjoy the match day experience immensely. But I cannot lobotomise myself during the game and ignore what I am seeing in front of my eyes which is the disinitegration of a youthful, locally based team and one long squandered opportunity.

"AV, How many more years are there to run on GS's contract? **AV writes: This is the start of the fourth year of a five year deal."

Thanks for the info AV. So if, as we all hope, Boro are back in the Premier league GS will want an improved deal; or alternatively we don't make it back to the promised land and ......please fill in the blanks. I have confidence that Gibbo has someone lined up.

A BORO win this-afty will go down nicely. Good luck to all of you attending today, hope you have a great day. UTB.

I am glad Gareth Southgate has pointed the finger at the most idiotic element of the fans. It needed doing. Managers and players - and the press too, including you AV - have indulged these people for too long.

They are not the voice of the people, they are not the heart of the club, they are self-righteous, emotionally incontinent overgrown infants stamping their feet and screaming because they can't get their own way.

Most fans are passionate but level-headed, emotional but realistic about what is after all just a game... but let us be honest, some are foul-mouthed, red-faced drooling and drunken cretins who are incapable of containing themselves and can only express themselves with bile aimed at our team, our players, our manager and increasingly our chairman. They are the people who 20 years ago were the hooligans, the ones who can't control their emotions.

And just because they make the most noise they are being allowed to set the agenda and the headlines in the newspapers. These idiots don't represent me. Even if I was against Southgate - which I am not - I would never behave like that.

Is that the measure of how big a fan you are in the modern game? Are you a better supporter if you are more impatient, more vitriolic, have a more visible rage? Is it a competition to be more conspicuously angry? And it is not just at Boro, people burning shirts and throwing tickets and waiting an hour after the game to swear at players for not being as good as other worth ten times more

I see these hate-filled apes screaming vile abuse at strangers and I just feel embarrassed.

**AV writes: It has always been a game of high emotions, that is what makes the atmosphere and helps forge the bonds of loyalty. Matchday colour, noise and volatility are part of the package. Passion is a key part of the product. I don't think for a second everyone who expresses themselves forcefully and passionately during matches crosses the quite stark line that you have drawn.

Continuing from Mark 76's lyrics I think the next verse from the same song says it all:

Those who feel the breath of sadness
Sit down next to me
Those who find they're touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me
Love, in fear, in hate, in tears

Sums up the current emotion of a Boro fan perfectly, it even incorporates the mentality of the matchday Stewards!

Does Tees Exile hate Boro fans or what? Just about every post he puts the boot in. No wonder he was forced out.

Im off to listen to the game now. Lita hat-trick todat. COME ON BORO!

What I meant to say is that since Ian is safely at the match the prospect the 'double' is now on.

1 - 0 to the Boro. Maybe when (if) Poggi comes back, we could put him and Wheater in the centre back positions, and St Ledger and Lita upfront? Only joking....

I've decided to try to not get into this pro/anti Southgate thing. It's not really a discussion or a debate. Everybody has their standpoint, and uses whatever happens or is said to "prove" their point of view.

However, some things get said which are just not true. For example...

"Paul Sturrock has some successful periods in his track record, GS has none."

It is a fact that we finished 12th and 13th in Southgate's first 2 seasons. That, for Boro, is success. We reached the cup quarter finals in each of his 3 seasons so far. Look at our cup record. That, for Boro, is success.

"Whether he does resign or not, it doesn’t make him look honourable, merely greedy and dishonest."

Okay, that's an opinion. Everybody is entitled to their own. But I must stongly disagree with that. Greedy and dishonest are not words I would use to describe Gareth Southgate. On the contrary.

Finally,I don't think Southgate has ever denied the fans the right to boo. But he doesn't dodge questions from the press, and answers them with complete honesty. I don't think you can criticise him for that.

Penalty Ref!!!!!!!!! Werdermouth & Dormo were lurking off-side!!!!

Great result today. Our excellent start to the season continues.

Gentlemen I refer you to my post of the 2nd at 12:14, 2-0 to the Boro!!
Great bloke that Southgate fella, tactics spot on, team selection perfect, motivation sorted. He should be the next England manager.

Ra Ra Ra!!!!

Has anyone noticed we are only 1 point behind West Brom?

Isnt it amazing how good 3 points makes you feel

Sneak posting while no one is looking.

Will I get away with it? Will it count for the 35,000? Will AV notice?