Boro Plough Past Tractorboys
THERE was a rare outbreak of chanting Jeremie Aliadiere's theme song after two finely crafted goals from the man who used to be the next van Basten. It won't radically alter his career stats but it was enough to help Boro see off a robust Ipswich just when the visitors looked to be clawing their way back into the game.
The opener was the enigmatic would-be van Basten's first league goal not only of this season but of this calendar year. It also kept up an uncanny record of Boro winning when he gets on the scoresheet, a sequence broken only once when he netted at Old Trafford and Boro lost 4-1. It also shows he can score past teams other than Arseanl
The lowest ever league crowd at the Riverside saw Boro beat Ipswich for the first time since 1992-93 and edge back into second place... for now. It was a sporadic performance with spells when Boro looked well on top against a poor side more concerned with playing the man than the ball - Boro's physio was the busiest man on the park - but they also laboured spells in the second half when they struggled to stem the tide and struggled to clear their lines.
The pre-match discussion was on the , er, robust nature of Roy Keane sides and it was noted that on the previous two occasions Boro had faced a side organised and motivated by the fiery President of Iran lookalike we have had players carried off on a stretcher. Last year Mido, Alves and Arca were roughed up and arguably the Argentinian midfielder has never really ever been the same.
Ipswich flew into thundering tackles just this side of WWF. Gary O'Neil was bundled over from behind in what should have been a penalty , although clambering up to score was some compensation, then he almost had his shins removed in a brutal second half clattering by Delaney. Emnes was also given a battering, as he seems to every week now by defenders who are terrified of his pace. He was scythed down just outside the Ipswich box and the ref waved played on, as they tend to in this division.
Ironically when the stretcher inevitably appeared it was for Andrew Taylor, who had twisted ankle ligaments turning sharply to play a routine back pass with no oppenent anywhere near him. It looked a nasty one.
It was disappointing to lose the clean sheet four minutes into stoppage time with a needlessly gifted penalty - especially when I was sat there with a bookies coupon that had 3-0 on it! - and a few players had off days (LIta for one and Johnson for another... although his ball in for Aliadiere's first was a beauty ) but the important thing was that Boro bounced back well after two successive defeats.
Southgate said afterwards that Boro had been laboured at times but that the quality of the finishing was the difference and that is probably right. Ipswich had two cleared off the line and a couple charged down. Coyne had one real save to make. Boro maybe squandered some good possession and failed tio make the final ball count too often. They only had a few clear cut chances and scored three of them. Long may it continue.
What we are fast discovering is that this division is no great shakes. Almost every week we come away from games saying Boro just did enough to edge past an average side and that the next one will be tougher. But it isn't. Long may that continue too.
That said, Boro have yet to face a sustained run of games against their promotion rivals. Newcastle have already got past West Brom and Cardiff (although that is a poor Newcastle who have lost a host of players so that only emphasises the weakness of this league). Boro's only real test against a team expected to be right up there has been Sheffield United - and that was a drab draw. All the wins have been against sides in the bottom half. The slope should start to get steeper soon. Apparently.
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Anthony Vickers
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After 2 weeks of wailing and gnashing of teeth, it's nice to be back on the football park where it really counts.
"Aliadiere in goal shock" should be the headline for this game! I'm pleased for him, he's taken a battering from the critics recently so I hope he enjoys this.
Next week will be a big challenge, but so far, so good.
A win is a win. Well done for bouncing back lads, now lets do Wednesday on Tuesday and set ourselves up nicely for a humdinger against the Baggies next weekend.
Regardless of what's going on in the background with cutting debts and what not, we may only be in the Championship but we're winning and that's all I care about at the minute!! CoB!!!
If we are still up there next April who'll complain? But seeing the three relegated teams in the Champ top 3 says it all - the gulf between the two leagues is huge.
I now get to watch the weekly highlights of the lower three leagues and and while it is entertaining in a way, it is like watching top tier wanna-bees - neat passing, curling free kicks etc. Goals galore fly in but the defences are wide open with some dodgy goalies.
Other writers could be right that even no-hoper Afonso could score in this company, if he was prepared to ride a few bruises.
Still, can't be churlish, a win is better than a poke in the eye
John Aus
I hold my hands up in humiliation!
After Aliadiere's poor performance at Ashton Gate, I gave him some stick before yesterday's game amongst our group in the Nav. However, it was great to see him prove me wrong with two superbly taken goals. Viva le Ali.
After all the hype of last week's Blog, I was a little disappointed to note that a lot of fans voted with their feet yesterday. Just over 19k attendence for a team in the top four, in my opinion, was fairly poor. Especially playing a Roy Keane side whom fans normally like to dish out the stick to.
Only maintaining the results will bring back the fans, so lets hope it was a one off.
It is plain to see that we still need a creative midfield player in the centre of the park. The flanks are sorted. In addition to which a big forwared who can hold the ball up would not go amiss, just hope it is not Caleb Folan.
Someone else who may prove me wrong....?
The current squad will beat 80% of the teams in this league fairly comfortably, but we do need additions to make sure that we stand a better chance in beating the other 20%.
This next week will be important to us, we need players in and we need to take a minimum of four points in the two games. We will have a better idea of our promotion chances after the West Brom game. I was pleased with the win today after two defeats on the bounce, but more pleased that GS had the balls to drop players and keep faith with others. Aliadiere's response to being dropped was positive also.
I could get used to this winning lark !!
I feared that Boro'd be edgy and nervous at home after two away defeats. Maybe they were. And I expected Ipswich to fight for at least a draw after their disastrous start to the season. So the result was better than I expected. But the positive was that we still managed to a 3-1 win. Our class must be quite high - at least by C'hip standards.
Of course we need to get wins home at draws away to get promoted. 13 points from 6 games is very good indeed. So four games to the judgment day for GS. So far nine out of ten for Gareth - well done!
Up the Boro!
Sky sports report:
"St Ledger stayed behind at the final whistle to applaud the Preston fans following Saturday's 2-0 victory over Swansea. And, while (manager) Irvine does not want St Ledger to leave Deepdale, he understands a decision could be taken out of his hands.
Irvine said: "We know that there is an interest from Middlesbrough and we know that their interest is quite strong. Unfortunately nowadays the decision (to keep a player) doesn't always come down to the manager.
"Every player at this club will have his price, regardless of whether I want him to stay or whether the chairman and the board want him to stay. Sean St Ledger has been fantastic for us and the last thing I want to do is lose a good player.
"He's come on in leaps and bounds and is a lad who is desperate to learn and desperate to improve. He's very self-critical and is always looking to correct anything he does wrong. We've got a fantastic relationship and I hope that continues for a long time."
Could he be joining us on Monday?
**AV writes: He could be if he passes the medical.....
Gary O'Neil pushing forward and supporting the front two /shooting is what I said we were missing in the Bristol city defeat. He has proved my case and many fans who wanted him to get back south when we were in the prem will have to eat humble pie as he is our Championship Stevie G.
Arca backed up his performance at Bristol with a man of the match from many, so I will have to eat humble pie too. Like Aliadierre , maybe Arca just needs a chance and at this level they should be decent. Digard will be good when he returns too.
Shame about the pen as I think goal diff will be important come the finish.
Bring on SHEF WED
I could not believe how poor Ipswich were but it served to remind me of the chasm of class that exists between most of the Championship and most of the Premier League.
It also convinced me that we are in no danger of joining the slippery slope that Southampton, Charlton etc have endured in recent times, so I am thankfull for small mercies.
Even though a young side our Premiership experience is seeing us through but the performances still lack consistency and cohesion.
Yet again we failed to exploit set-pieces - we very rarely score from these golden, goal scoring opportunities; does anybody else notice this at all ? The manager and his staff are either blissfully unaware of this weakness or at a loss has to how to exploit them.
This alone convinces me, that our future success is dependent on regime change because if we manage to scrape promotion back among the big boys we will not be equipped to survive.
That's my honest opinnion, if it not "on message" enough for some, tough.
Good win by the boro and good to see that the financial truth is now being spoke by the count. We must all be realistic here - the coffers are empty but look where we were all those years ago. I also do not have a problem with the club having to to trim its cloth to survive.
One question I do have AV - the club are constantly claiming loss in revenue of ã25m as a result of relegation. Whatever happened to the "parachute payments" urban myth?, or is the ã25m the figure with these payments taken into account - I thought these payments were paid for at least the year following relegation.
**AV writes: TV rights income last year was ã31m. The parachute payment - which teams get at the end of the year and only if they don't go back up - is ã12m. The difference of ã19m is the bulk of the lost revenue. The rest is made up of individual match broadcast payments (ã750k in the Pl with a minimum of three) and loss of shares in additional PL sponsorships (Lucozade,etc).
when Aliadiere is determined to prove a point quite often he does, all you have to do is look at his performances against Arsenal since he joined us, He has always said he wanted to prove them wrong, and he did when he played them,
All the other times he just tends to switch off, but yesterday he was frustrated for being named on the bench and what do you know, he scores two good goals. I think he just needs a push every now and then
Yesterday I tried to send off a post but it must have disappeared. Wherever the ether is, it must be getting crowded there.
In short, I said that what we had seen proved that painters and decorators can occasionally produce a masterpiece. Well done, Aliadiere. Now the challenge is to repeat the performance and that means continuing to score goals.
And O'Neill looks very good at this level, even immediately after a hernia operation!
Very good win - and collectors' items with a Gary O'Neil header and a brace from Jezza. A shame for the defence to concede late but Seb Hines did OK. Now, let's build on it with loans for St. Ledger & Vaughan, Anichebe or Leon Best - and what about a sneaky one for Ferrie Bodde in the midfield?
Every now and then, a humble painter and decorator can produce a work to be proud of. Well done Aliadiere.
Well done also to O'Neill so soon after his hernia operation not only to run around like a young athlete but to produce a wonderful headed opening goal. At Championship level there won't be many more influential midfielders than him this season.
So, if people can stay fit, there is at least the basis of a team to challenge at this level. Players like Wheater, O'Neill and Adam Johnson would surely get into every Championship team and, when he returns and if he plays at centre-half, we might say the same about Poggi for the next few months at least. If you then add the fast-improving Rhys Williams to the mix and the value shown by Yeats and Coyne for their respective outlays (a rare example of Boro bargains?) things suddenly look a little better on Teesside. Premier League? What's that?
**AV writes: It wasn't in the ether it was "parked" in the spam basket.
A decent result today but in front of 19742 fans. Sadly the Riverside revolution is turning into revolt. Since my move away from Teesside in the 80's my attendance has stayed fairly constant - tended to be an away fan, this is recent and local fans staying away.
Conceding late goals is our biggest problem and against better sides or when the scoreline is in the balance, that will hurt us in a way which may make a difference come the points tally at the end of thee season. We need to cut out the sloppiness and lack of concentration levels towards the end of matches.
We need to learn from this by demonstrating a more steely resolve on the pitch for the full ninety plus minutes of every game.
God I can't wait for Wednesday to play Sheffield Tuesday, where I'll hopefully be watching the debut of St. Ledger and not Forlan.
Does anyone think Forlan is a good idea? John Powls, I like your suggestions of a CF, but failing that someone should ring Tony Woodcock for some advice again.
What about Benjani? Wages to much?
Anyone know where to park at Hillsbrough?
Cancel the dodgy loan striker! - one of ours who we previously thought was only capable of scoring against his former club has decided that he has to prove he can score against clubs he hasn't played for.
So another good victory against another poor team - It's probably worth noting that our four wins have been against teams who are in the bottom half of the Championship - with only one point and no goals in open play from teams in the top half.
Though it's early days to lean on statistics - I'll reserve judgement until we've tackled a few of the fancied runners - but at least we are keeping up the pace of the relegated big boys (relatively speaking).
Still at least Southgate resisted the temptation to bring in Jones.
I think we are able to win loads and loads of games in this 2nd division, only because of al ot of teams being so incapable, e.g beating themselves to give us the Boro and also Newcastle the points.
Also we can have a lot of luck such as if we hit a bad patch at some stage, the better teams around us could blow an opportunity to get streets ahead of us, by not winning games they should have won, e.g, inconsistency and having to field very much inferior players in when hitting some injuries.
The word at the "Shaven Goat's Head" is that St Ledger failed his medical due to cartilage trouble. Any confirmation of that, AV?
**AV writes: My understanding is that there was a problem because of the swelling/bruising from an injury he picked up two weeks ago. It hasn't stopped him player for Ireland or Preston since then but showed up on the scans. There was a suggestion that he will need an operation but nothing official on that. I believe they will try again at a later date. That said, the noises at the Preston end are that he has played his last game for them.
My first live game of the season on Saturday, and although pleased with the result against a lack lustre side, the game and the atmosphere was akin to watching a pre-season friendly for most of the 90 odd minutes.
I'm still trying to decide if we have enough quality to see us out of this league against what quality we would need to buy in to stay in the PL, when there will still be no money available.
In the meantime it's good to see Boro winning again, and with some ease.
Sheff Wed will be a different prospect but I was not that impressed after watching the highlights of their home game against Notts Forest. Forest's pace caused a lot of problems for their back four, Jinky could have a field day.
AV
So it appears St Ledger may need an operation. Cue press conference. It would be a shame, though as you say, it was widely reported he did the obligatory wistful, farewell round of applause.
There are previous instances of injured players moving clubs. Huth's left/right ankle/knee/shoulder/mascara (delete as appropriate) and Downings foot didnt stop transfers.
Further to St Ledger. If we are taking him on loan I cant see the problem. If he is playing at the moment he can do the same for. If he recovers fine, if not he goes back to Preston. Rather brutal but that is life.
Good to see Coyne in goal on Saturday, an obvious decision but we were worried were we not?!
As for Aliadiere, maybe Southgate needs to put him on the bench every week if that what it takes to fire him up. Not only that I was also surprised to see Arca named man of the match made me spill my Leffe all over the keyboard.
Maybe we have got a squad who can compete in the top 3/4 of the championship after all. I'm getting to like the Championship, mainly because of the wins of course but also because you don't have to wait until Saturday for the next game, roll on Tuesday and yet another challenge.
Ian Gill I would not get hung up over attendances. If we had still been at Ayresome this would have been a rattling good turn out. Last years average of 28000 swelled by an increased visitors end was never going to be maintained after a sickening relegation and in the middle of a recession. We have also sold ã30m pounds worth of players and spent about ã500000k.
If we carry on doing well the average will stay above 20000 and gradually grow as the season progresses and the faith that has been lost is slowly restored. I dont imagine for one minute that the bean counters at the club would have budgeted for more than a 22000 average over the course of a 23 game season of home matches.
On leavening the ground I couldnâÂÂt help thinking that we didnâÂÂt play that well again, but got the result. This to me is not a sign of a good team but a rubbish division. Maybe because they were rarer than hens teeth but a Premier League win would keep me smiling for days. I just canâÂÂt help but feel this is all a bit second rate.
I donâÂÂt want to sound churlish, a win is a win and two goals to boot is more than acceptable, enjoyable in fact. LetâÂÂs keep on getting behind the lads, there will be defeats, the odd wobble but keep wining your home games and youâÂÂre in with a chance.
AV, any truth in the rumour that Danny Graham was not interested in a return in the Summer?
**AV writes: I've never heard that one.
St. Leger nor Folan are as important to the Boro as the Signing of Adam Johnson!
His goals and assists are vital to us progressing in this league. We have not got a better player on the left and there isnt a better one in this division so SORT IT OUT Lamby for Gods sake.
I sometimes wonder if we treat some of our own players worse because we take them for granted, Downing aside , the likes of James Morrison and Cattermole could have saved our bacon. To many players have been able to leave after running their contract down too.
Having seen Tony Woodcock's hair do on sky this morning, I wish to retract my previous comments. It was without doubt the worst I have seen for years, and made garth's sideparted mullet of last year look positively short.
AV, correct me if I'm wrong but Newcastle didn't see off West Brom, they drew 1-1 with them.
I wonder how much truth is in the story that everton offered us James Vaughan on loan. If it is true I think he would be a better bet than Folan who's clearly not keen on the idea of coming here and who's goalscoring record leaves a lot to be desired.
I think St. ledger would be a good signing, assuming he passes a medical of course, he is the type of player we should be looking at, a young and upcoming proven championship player rather then a premier league team reject.
Lastly, I was pleased to see Allialidere get a cuople of goals after all the stick he has had off the fans for the last few weeks. Cuople more on tuesaday would do nicely!
There's no way Boro have the squad to sustain a top two challenge throughout a 46 game season - or, indeed, as far as the January window when we may see more of our better players go and our opportunities to add are no better than they are now.
Gibbo set out the prospectus for what was needed in his 'Blind Faith' interview and that hasn't changed.
I think the minimum needed on loans now are the big lad up front, a creative midfielder and a central defender - in that order for me.
But if someone of St. Ledger's quality is available (and I take Ian's view on balance or risks and handling those with a loan) then, of course, we should secure him.
The danger will come when Gareth starts to think that the 'success' is down to his judgement and decision making rather than the fact that the Boro team is better than the poor teams we have played.
Once he's tempted to re-instate Jones and Aliadiare and drop McMahon (who he's never fancied) and we come up against a decent side it'll be "normal service resumed".
ã4m for Hulse? He basically offered him the earth and 'begged' him to come and he still refused. Which says more about Hulse's judgement than Southgate's.
He's scored 23 goals in the last 3 years! ã4m for Hulse?? Say it aloud to get the full effect - "ã4m for Hulse"
I find myself feeling surprisingly cheerful & confident this sunny Monday afternoon. After the summer sales and apparent refusal to sanction the replacement of recently departed key squad members, I was pretty downbeat a week ago. Since then, a couple of things have happened that have given me renewed hope & put the smile back on my face:
a) The return of honesty at the club. I have never found Mr Lamb to be particularly likeable and have had serious doubts about his acumen in the role of Chief Exec. Having listened to his interview with Ali on BBC Tees, I now have a new found admiration for the guy.
I was fearing a repeat of the Chairman's early summer interview, where a lot of the statements seemed to be nothing more than hopeful propaganda. A lot of his stated intentions have subsequently proved to bear little relation to the clubs actions. The count gave us a much more gritty, realistic and truthful interview.
I nearly fell off my chair in disbelief after he actually put a ballpark figure on the current level of debt carried by MFC. That is one question the Chairman point blank refused to be drawn upon a couple of months ago. He then went on to reveal the (previously undisclosed) fee they have received for Alves. In doing so, he revealed just how big a loss was made on the player over 18 miserable months. When asked which "numpty" paid ã12m quid for him, the reply "you're talking to him" had me laughing aloud. Self deprecating humour, I could actually grow to like this guy !
b) Our much maligned manager is actually starting to sound like a manager. For too long we have put up with post match comments about "learning lessons" and being able to ask no more from the players after a "great effort". Even after tame defeats or succumbing to identikit, last minute, dead-ball equalisers.
Following a 3-1 win, the manager chose to emphasise his annoyance at the conceding of a late goal and the sloppy nature of the passing for some periods of the game. That should be music to the ears of all Boro fans who want mr angry pushing their team forwards, not mr meek allowing standards to slip. To steal a quote from elsewhere, we want Churchill, not Ian Duncan Smith. That is the ruthless attitute that could see us promoted as Champions, not happy to settle for fourth or fifth and a place in the play-off lottery.
Long may the ruthless, straight talking, Riverside revolution continue !!
I agree with John Powls that squad depth is a concern. Defence looks OK especially if we bring in another Centre Half. Midfield soon to be boosted by the return of Didier âÂÂChoccyâ Digard. However an injury to Adam âÂÂI can dive better than Piresâ Johnson and we look a little workman like.
AV last week you hinted at a Premier Striker in talks re a loan move. Obviously Folan has been outed but Sam Vokes is being mentioned again. Also since StokeâÂÂs double swoop Cresswell was mooted. Have we made any moves for these two?
**AV writes: Vokes has been offered around the Championship but was knocked back by Boro. Forlan was the favourite but Newcastle are intersted too and Hull now seem to be upping the ante and asking for a loan fee so it is not as clear cut as it looked on Friday. Vaughan is reported to have been offered to Boro too but I don't know how far that has gone. Cresswell is "on the list" but how far down and whether we have got there yet I don't know.
'Ignorant' of Boroland -
Regarding Johnson's contract it takes two to tango does it not? Boro have offered him a new contract and he has turned it down, so we have two choices, sit tight and live with the consequences or offer him more money. However as we are in the Championship we are limited to how much can be offered.
Further more Johnson knows he is good enough to play in the prem. but he doesn't know if Boro will be in it next season. So he will wait until the Summer to make a decision, if Boro are promoted he might stay, if we aren't he will leave. The situation is not within Keith Lamb's power to 'sort it out'.
scoredraw - you make me laugh, Boro do well and it's not down to the manager, the team performs badly and it is the managers 'fault', your arguement doesn't stack up.
Football management is a strange beast, Chris Houghton is manager of the month for the championship, only a few weeks ago he was regarded as a 'no mark caretaker'. I wonder if the Geordies still want Shearer?
Boro aren't the only club with a squad which needs beefing up, the Barcodes I read have a squad which only has 18 senior players, how long can they maintain their current success rate before injuries start to take a toll?
Boro aren't in the perfect position but its not bad, so far we've maintained a decent run of form without Bates, Digard, Pogatez and Riggot. That already suggests the squad is reasonably robust, although a couple of additions will help.
AV if you have already blogged on this could you point me in the right direction. If not can you explain how a thought of a new player in a managers head leads to him making a signing?
As I see it the player is selected either, by A) scoring against us, B) extensive scouting (!) or C) being alerted to his availability.
Then does Lamby then ring the players club and say âÂÂWe are interested in Mr X, is he available for transfer/loan?âÂÂ
If the answer is yes then is there some haggling? Or do the Boro just go in with an offer that they think fairly reflects the players value and refuse to budge, like with Justin Hoyte? Then if the clubs agree feeâÂÂs is that when the agents get involved to discuss personal terms?
How are bids tabled, is it really by fax, on nice headed paper I hope?
And was payment ever made by cheque?
IâÂÂm just wondering as some deals take months and some take the final 13mins before the deadline shuts.
Also (IâÂÂm in very inquisitive mood) does Gareth actually have a list of the players (just noticed your previous reply, the list exists, have you seen it?) he wants in a notebook or something and has to put a line through them when they so no?
**AV writes: Some interesting questions. I think there is an actual 'list' and it was suggested to us a few weeks ago that it was "this long" (*gestures with hands as wide as a boastful fisherman*). That is not to say they are all realistic targets.
The list evolves through several imputs. Firstly there is the manager and his assistants who just like you and me will have a string of players he will fancy, some admittedly because he has seen them destroy Boro from close up, some because he has watched develop over the years, some because he knows they have qualities he believes the team is lacking - and whatever the barstool masses say, he does actually know far more than us about the game, about what makes a player tick and exactly what the team is lacking mentally and physically.
Secondly there will be imput from the scouts. Not just Dave Leadbitter and Gordon McQueen but the entire network of low level professional observers, often with a position specific brief. They watch far more football than even the biggest saddo with Sky Plus and tellies in every room can manage and when they go to games they just watch one bloke over and over for the full 90 noting every misplaced pass, hit and hope shot or moment of class.
That feeds into a club data base, position by position, cross referenced by specific physical and mental qualities. If the gaffer asks for a list of left footed holding midfielders with Prem experience or big lads who are under 30 and good in the air it will be available immediately, like a real life Champ Man data base.
Then there are suggestions from agents, other managers or sometimes even players. Agents may have a vested interest but they should not be discounted. They are natural networkers and get whispers on the next big thing early on or know who may be available at short notice at the right price. An agent put Steve McClaren onto Franck Queudrue for instance.
Other clubs may make suggestions too. If a club knows Southgate is after a striker don't rule out an unofficial inquiry from another manager as to whether he would fancy player X. They may need to sell someone to finance a move fro someone else so are just sounding out the possibilies.
Of course, you can't always get the ones you want because clubs want to keep them, or rivals are interested too. or the price is unacceptable so you work down the list seeing who is available at any given time.
Then the haggling starts....
I wonder if Josh Walker may be finally about to emerge from "the Black Hole of Hurworth"?
There's a story on the MFC home page (here: http://www.mfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,1~1796418,00.html ) reporting on Boro players "allowed to join up with a 21-man party for a training camp in Cyprus ahead of what's billed as FIFA's second most important tournament after the World Cup", i.e. the U20 World Cup, the players in question being Jason Steele & Josh (Gate apparently felt he might require the services of Joe Bennett, so he's had to stay behind!).
Of Josh it says revealingly (&, I can't help feeling, grudgingly & through gritted teeth!): "Walker, who is recalled after being part of the England U19 squad that qualified for the finals earlier this year, has hardly figured in the Boro first team this season, with just one unused sub appearance to his name"!
Signs of an impending "rehabilitation"? An official acknowledgement of his existence, at any rate. Here's hoping the England call-up jogs a few memories. If Brian Eastick rates him, why doesn't Gate?
" The danger will come when Gareth starts to think that the 'success' is down to his judgement and decision making rather than the fact that the Boro team is better than the poor teams we have played. "
I've read some convoluted ways of trying to make a negative out of a positive on these boards, but that has to take the biscuit - and a chocolate-covered digestive at that.
AV is it true we enquired about Vokes but there is a substantial loan fee involved which I think Boro and Newcastle have both agreed to? Warnock of Crystal Palace said on web site. Hope so, he's class. Better than Folan. Can score goals
**AV writes: I don't if Boro have agreed anything but he is certainly being hawked around Championship clubs right now,
Nigel:
These 3 statements are all valid and 'stack up':
1. Gareth Southgate's ineptitude more than anything else got us relegated.
2. The reason the Boro are 3rd in the league is down to the fact they have played poor teams and not because Gareth has morphed into Mourhino.
3. It could be that the quality is so poor in the Championship that Newcastle and Boro with depleted squads thrive and go straight up (surely even an ardent Southgate admirer like yourself can see that Chris Hughton's experience adds weight to my opinion).
In other words I am saying YES he is to blame for relegation and NO he's not responsible for the 'success' to date. To a fit and nimble mind like mine those two statements are not mutually exclusive.
And before you get 'Geordie Fever' remember we are no more than a game away from him dropping McMahon in favour of Hoyte, replacing Coyne with his favourite Jones, reinstating Aliadiare ....... ..... 5 centre halves, Marlon King ....... .... Hulse !!!
AV
Forlan!? You wish!! That was a land far, far away in a time long ago!
Folan? Well, how the removal of one letter tells a story.
The poor attendance was due not only to the stayaways but also the fact that the I.T. fans literally came on a tractor. On Saturday the Baggies will have a few thousand with them so it will be around 22,500 minimum.
Onto the game itself, pre kick-off there was the good news that a Boro Manager is now picking players on form not on pecking order which is good for morale and also saved a backlash from the fans if Jones had so much as slipped or fumbled during the warm up.
Aliadiere looked like he was totally disinterested during the warm up and literally couldn't hit an open gaping net to save his life. Maybe the disappointment allied to the resultant opportunity rekindled something but he looked a totally different prospect to his former self and hopefully his confidence will now start to show.
Strangely whilst we did not play well there some neat moves and some good displays from Arca, Williams, McMahon, GON and of course Hines. Hope Jinky has learned his lesson now and I was pleased that Gate (like Coyne) was angry at the last minute Boro trademark gift goal rather than happy about the result.
Whisper it quietly but even the Count sounded like he started talking sense on Friday and stopped the previous "spin" tactics. Don't know whether it was Smithy that started the straight talking bit or not but it was very welcome. Funniest bit was when Gareth's Granny phoned in half way through, even I felt embarrased for the Gate at that point.
Overall if we play badly and win 3-1 then its a positive step in the right direction. The Challenge is now to keep it up!
Believe me, we are in for a long hard slog. All we can do, as fans, is accept that we are backing our club, which is not perfect and never will be, until changes at the top are made!
My vote - Gibbo to stay - Lamby mmm! - scouts mmm - GS mmm and attract outside investment from other sources!
My argument is that to survive and get to where we were a couple of seasons ago SG will have to become a joint financial partner with someone somewhere out of the GB! Can Ray Mallon help with his political clout that may extend to the Middle East money men?
I see Folan and St Ledger deals are still in the pipeline.
I cannot get excited over Folan. I must admit I dont know much about him but whilst statistics dont tell the whole truth they do not paint an enticing picture. He is 28 next month (no, I am not holding that against him) and has played less than 200 games including internationals. He has only scored 31 goals, he has 28 red/yellow cards.
I do not see what he is going to add to the squad in the same way as Jason Euell. My understanding is that he is a big target man, whilst I appreciate we are lacking in that area and need a plan B, is he the best we can get? Will he fit into our quick moving pattern of play?
On the other hand we are not overloaded with prolific strikers but I dont think he ticks ay boxes in that category. I may be doing him a diservice and if so apologise in advance.
Thanks AV. You must have been privy to a few more of the bizarre deals and transfer targets. Was it true we intercepted Michael Ricketts on his way down to Spurs in a Motorway service station? Was Rob Lee really that thick?
**AV writes: Kamara was on his way here from Stoke when his car was hijacked at Wetherby by Howard Wilkinson. You win some, you lose some.
John Powls
Forlan/Folan...Thats really funny. Made my day.
Scoredraw - I'm pleased to read you're in fine fettle and have a fit and nimble mind.......you're not Robin Mitton in disguise are you?
Oh and by the way what gives you the impression that I'm an ardent Southgate fan? I simply believe in giving credit where it's due and in my opinion if a man is blamed when something goes wrong it is logical to give credit when it goes right.
The truth is surely that a manger plays a significant part in a teams success/failure but there are so many other factors outside of his control which also determine the degree of success. As fans we tend to ignore these other factors as they are difficult to identify and also many of us want someone 'to blame' for reasons which I personally do not understand.
Now please excuse me I need to get back to my Nintendo DS and get on with my brain training, I've clearly got some catching up to do.
Interesting to see some posts giving GS credit for our league position, just proves a point he is at best a Championship manager. If he was any good he would have not got beat by Bristol or drawn 0-0 with Sheffield Utd. Lets face it this league on what we have played so far is rubbish and if we do get out we will come straight back with GS in charge.
I will not repeat GS's failings in the Premier league last season, but so far his teams pick themselves based on the squad and fit players available. With more players GS seems to lose the plot.