Crash! Brought Down To Earth By Baggies
WELL that was a pretty comprehensive kicking. Five goals and it could easily have been more. Boro started a point behind the Baggies but by the end the teams looked leagues apart. They were out-muscled and out-played but more worrying after the second goal lacked any belief that they could claw it back.
After a bright start they ran out of ideas and after leaking a "controversial" opener they lost their shape and concentration and started to go increasingly long, a move that played into the hands of West Brom's defence and is far from Boro's strong suit. By the end Boro were in disarray in every area of the pitch and were not playing as a team.
GIven the importance of the game, the burning need to keep the momentum going and the importance of avenging what were two costly defeats last term we were told the players were up for the big test. There was little evidence of that.
Does anyone come out of it with credit? Apart from a brief flurry of individual efforts from Adam Johnson in the second half Boro had nothing to offer at all. Lita and Folan barely had a touch when they came on while Emnes again showed great pace but struggled to deliver the final ball and Aliadiere was back to base metal.
Without Gary O'Neil the midfield looked flat and laboured. After three good games Julio Arca was found wanting as his lack of pace was exposed and Mark Yeates had what could most generously be described as a bad day at the office. He was dashing about like a daft terrier chasing cars, drifted out of position and left Boro wide open down that flank - poor Tony McMahon had a torrid day - and he made a string of woeful passes to concede possession in dangerous areas.
Danny Coyne didn't have much chance with the opener but followed up a poor kicked clearance for the second goal with a couple of poor punches and never looked comfortable on crosses. That could open the door for the return of Brad Jones.
And poor Sean St Ledger. What a home debut for a defender. His first real touch was to make a mess of a high ball to Bednar although to his credit he chased back and tidied up and won generous applause. He played some neat balls under pressure, put in a couple of good blocks and was sound positionally but it wasn't a great game to judge on.
I don't fancy being Eric and picking a three, two, one. It was a no star performance and a major psychological blow plus a very disappointing crowd. Given the stakes and the recent form plus the buzz around the town from the Wednesday it should have been one that dragged the pick and choosers out in their masses.
But, that said, it was only one game - against a very good side - and there are plenty more to go. Boro can - must - bounce back at Coventry to get the ball rolling again. If they don't the renewed low levelling muttering will burst into the foreground again.
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I think we have to blame this one you AV, tempting fate, couldn't we have just pretended it was just another game.
However it is not your fault that lessons have not been learnt, The midfield as every man and his dog has being saying is just not good enough, not last season and not this,certainly without GON. And now GS is saying that is the end of the incomings. After today he will have to rethink that statement if we are to keep up with West Brom and Newcastle, never mind the rest of the teams at our heels ( for now ).
Oh dear Listening on the radio - HT 0-3 Sounds typical - if we ever get promoted GS doesn't have a clue against top class teams...
Dont bottle baggie biggie???? Looks like exactly what you did!! Middlesborough were made to look like a very poor team, as they were totally dominated in all areas. Shame we cant play this team every week!!! This really was your first big game of the season. and it put you in your place!! Bring on the home fixture BOING BOING!!
1. That wasn't a defeat, it was a rout.
2. Not even Derren Brown would have predicted a 0-5 result, and I wonder what the odds for that would have been.
3. I can't believe we it was possible to pick a Boro Man of the Match.
4. Although it is early days in the Championship season, it seemed to be the accepted wisdom that ourselves, WBA and Newcastle were likely to be contenders to win the league. Just as in the Premier League Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have for years been "the contenders". Do you think it is likely Liverpool would lose 5-0 at home to Arsenal, or Man Utd 5-0 to Chelsea?
5. I hope people don't blame this defeat on poor refereeing. None of the Boro team played any better than the ref refereed.
6. WBA were always going to be a better team than anything we have played this season so far. The truth is that they played well and we didn't get out of first gear, let alone second, this time.
7. The test is whether it can be put right for next time.
8. When I got through the front door my wife told me she had hidden away all the knives and other sharp objects - now, where is the alcohol.....
It started off well enough with a prospect of an enjoyable and entertaining end to end game. Then unfortunately the Referee obviously wanted the "Man of the Match" accolade and in so doing turned the game and the atmosphere into something ugly.
His displaybeggared belief, even in the 2nd half with the game far gone and a forgone conclusion the North Stand were baffled at the booking of the WBA players for challenges that were more worthy of pensioners at the check outs at the local supermarket.
Mr. Kettle's performance without doubt ranks as one of the worst I have seen in many years watching football. He was totally out of touch with the game, the players and the atmosphere.
His Assistants unfortunately were either under his strict instructions to toe the line with his eccentricity or just equally inept. The time wasting farces from the Baggies (a shame as they are clearly much better than that) which dragged the game back every time we looked like making an impact/comeback suckered him every time.
With regards to the Boro, we win two on the trot, scoring 6 and conceding 2 but felt the need to upset the defence yet again by introducing a new signing. We had an enforced change in midfield when GON failed to make it so we had a shuffled midfield and a shuffled back 4, not clever or good management.
Danny needs to aim for Row Z instead of putting it straight down the throat of the opposition attack, that second goal effectively put the Kibosh on things.
Performance wise they all collectively had howlers (including the Coaching /Management staff). WBA's left flank highlighted GON's absence with Macca looking totally exposed. Yeates in front of him looked way out of his depth at this level and offered neither outlet or resisitance. I suggest that we look to bring in Reo-Coker on loan, at least it appears he's up for a ruckus!
On the opposite side Grounds was anonymous whilst Jinky had better sign whatever Contract offer is currently (assuming Lamb hasn't withdrawn it already!) in front of him right now because on that performance he looks a totally different proposition when playing against decent opposition. The Doncaster's, Ipswich's, Scunthorpe's and Wednesday's are perhaps his level rather than Madrid.
Our central defence looked all at sea with it being obvious no understanding was existing between Wheats and Ledge. Arca and Williams, like the fans were riled with the Referee and provided him with the opportunity to get himself even more in the spotlight with his petulant display of yellow cards even more petulant than the challenges for which they were issued. At one stage I was convinced Kettles was going to do a Pirouette and finish in an arabesque position as he awarded yet another free kick against us.
Up front Emnes looks like he is capable of dancing around and looking like he might produce something, unfortunately though he might not and quite simply didn't and couldn't. Ali looked like he was carrying an injury from the off and it was no surprise when he was subbed. Folan at least looked capable of dishing it out with the Baggies defence but there was nobody at all to link up with him.
All in all there wasn't a single decent performance in a Red shirt despite the fans offering great support in the opening stages and in letting Mr. Kettles know that the next time he "*Referees" on Teesside he will be in for a hostile reception. (n.b. * The term "Referees" above was used in the weakest sense of the word.)
So we have learnt that a few of those in a Red shirt got collectively going when it got tough and that our Coaching/Managerial staff really can recreate the famed "Rabbits in Headlamps" panic even in the Championship. There were some very ugly scenes today at the Riverside and they cannot ever be repeated for the sake of the Boro.
On balance, AV, and whilst still standing by what I sent by way of a post about 100 minutes ago, perhaps you might want to turn your server off for the night. It might get overheated with the torrent of intemperate comments I suspect will be rushing towards you following this afternoon's display against WBA.
People might have cooled down a little by tomorrow. You do realise you will be getting the blame for it, don't you? Or was it my going up the wrong staircase again?
I have heard it was "a bad day at the office". Look, boys, even David Brent himself would struggle to conjure up a day quite as bad as that. Maybe if the office manager forgot his keys, had to go back home for them and therefore kept all the secretaries waiting outside in the rain for an hour until he returned, thereby ensuring the vital contract that had to be faxed by 9.30am didn't go, costing the company the £5M deal it needed to stay afloat.
Maybe if, during his rush back to the office with the keys, he accidentally activated the mobile phone in his pocket, and managed to send a ribald and politically very incorrect text message containing vulgar language that he had saved to send to a friend later in the morning, so it was sent out to all his contacts including his wife, Mother in Law, the local vicar, members of the company's HR Team and Board members at Head Office.
And only if, inadvertently when he got there, he broke the key in the lock, setting off the burglar alarm. Let's say that, when the Police arrive at speed, they wrongly assume the man wrestling with the front door is trying to break in, and initially arrest him (which is unfortunate for the officer whose eye is blackened when our office manager gesticulates wildly at the crowd of very wet office workers sniggering about 20 yards away).
His only piece of luck is that the Police see the funny side despite initally being most upset at being called out on a false alarm. Maybe if, following the Police leaving, in his haste to make a cup of tea in the kitchen he knocked the microwave off the shelf, fusing the electrics just after the slice of bread he'd put in the toaster had caught fire, setting off the fire alarm and automatic sprinkler system, destroying the computers the soaking secretaries had just managed to boot up.
We won't mention the fact that, in his panic, the frazzled office manager then barged through the reception door only to break the nose of his best Japanese customer sheltering from the spray, having arrived a little early for his 11.45 appointment, or the fact that, out of the corner of his eye he could see a Fire Engine scream into the car park only to come into violent contact with the rear of the new Mercedes our hapless friend had borrowed from his Regional Manager for the week "to see if he would like to buy it".
No, undoubtedly there are "bad days at the office". But this 0-5 defeat hardly does the term justice, does it?
I look forward with great interest to your next thread following the display today. It actually made us look good in the match last time at Baggies so eloquently discussed by Uncle Eric. I have an apology to make. I was concerned Caleb Folan wouldnt fit in to our pattern of play. He blended in seamlessly and you couldnt see any problems of him fitting in.
Well done West Brom. Boro are left licking their wounds, but the world keeps turning. Back to Basics and a good showing at the Ricoh Arena next week is the very least that's needed at this stage. CoB!!
Not a lot to add AV except to say that the crowd was embarrassing. Two wins in a row, six goals, a point off the top and playing the leaders at home and we get under 23,000.
All those people who said they would only turn out for a winning side, or for a side chasing promotion, or for a side with local young lads playing, or only for the big games have been shown to be talking complete baloney. If they were telling the truth we'd have had 30k today.
They have just used relegation as an excuse to bail out and will blame anything rather than admit the truth: they are fainthearts and plastic Premiership who scuttle off to watch Man U on the box when times are hard.
Reality Bites!
Well, that was well worth the 400+ mile round trip. The funny thing was that I didn't feel sorry for myself. I bumped into an old mate who hadn't been to watch boro since the Cardiff debacle in the cup. Fancy coming out of self imposed exile for that one?
At least the band outside were good!
By the way, I suggest that those of you that enjoyed that excellent blog from that Sheff Wed fan the other day simply replace Boro with West Brom and Sheff Wed with Boro. you never know, it may help.
It was absolutely dreadful. The ref shafted us for the first goal, and the officials gave us a ready-made excuse for defeat by being abysmal for the rest of the game (the east stand linesman was giving decisions without looking in the 2nd half), yet we were so bad we can't blame them for losing and keep a straight face.
The 2nd half was a humiliation, no fight, no nothing. We actually got worse.
Gareth deserves praise for the start we've had and he deserves all the flak he'll get for that. Let's hope it was a one off.
Welcome back TYPICAL BORO.
We STILL haven't fixed the midfield problem, and now Southgate says no more signings for now. Then he goes ahead and changes the midfield AND the defence ahead of the West Brom game.
Like the Cardiff cup tie, the Boro turn up, thinking the opposition won't, and our midfield is totally bossed.
We've played three decent teams so far in Sheff Utd, Bristol City and West Brom, scored a single goal, conceded seven, and managed a single point out of those three games. That's the reality of where we are.
We have a long way to go, under the same clueless manager.
Redcar red - 'Worst refereeing i've seen for years' Until the next game? You shouldn't blame the referee for being second best in all areas of the pitch yesterday.
It was just a below par performance from Boro, unfortunately you came up against an Albion side playing well! Get over it, life moves on and you've got a chance to get a positive reaction from the players against the sky blues next week. If things go wrong next week just blame the ref!
I'm sure the 3 relegated sides will be there or there abouts come the end of may.
Billy of Berks - Agree whole heartedly with your comment re: article from Sheff Wed Fan. Let's hope it is not repeated against Reading or you might be looking for the gallows.
I think a period of calm is required after yesterday's debacle.
It was very reminiscent of the thrashings we took at home from Arsenal in the top flight when Kanu was the mischief maker in chief. Everyone threw their toys then, and the same will happen again this week.
It is how the players deal with it that will show the fans how the season progresses.
One thing is clear however, we need a stronger leader both on and off the pitch.
Until this happens, I fear that poor attendees at home games will continue, and further dwindle if there is no improvement over the next month.
Ouch! should we dismiss the WBA game as a one-off abomination or is symptomatic of a continuation of the failings of last season.
Not even the great oracle that is Forever Dormo saw this coming - but it was typical of the last few seasons under Southgate where the players just froze for the important winnable games - plus Gareth has omniously returned to his mantra of having learned some lessons.
At least it puts into perspective how good the team is - as I recalled last week, so far we've only beaten teams in the bottom half of the Championship - teams that didn't have the quality to hurt us when they had the chance.
Let's hope we bounce back quicker than a spring-loaded Baggie and don't suffer another season collapse after a promising start - Though at least we're are not in the PL where this result would probably be repeated every other week with this team.
So the balls in Southgate's court - it's sink or swim time again.
I refrained from too much blogging last night to prevent too much invective so just a few of comments today.
1. West Brom are a good team? So good they would have had a Mackemesque points total last season if they hadnt played us twice. Their manager has so little experience he makes Gate look like SrAlex. They have several key players injured.
2. Ali and Gary said they couldnt see where this performance came from. Me too but we do have previous so it is more a case of when rather than if.
3. Whenever we show signs of improvement we come crashing down, a good mini run is followed by a capitulation.
4. I am not suggesting sacking Gate but following our capitulation last season most boards would be writing out his P45 when the team shows a return to previous standards.
5. We have needed another central midfielder since we shooed them all away last summer. Without O'Neill we have no drive and pace, no ability to push the team forward. But that doesnt mask the fact we were poor all over the pitch
6. There was an embarassing lack of organisation, fight, spirit or thinking displayed yesterday. So much for the talk of being up for it.
7. Cant complain about the crowd, the expectations of those who were not there were vindicated. For the second time in the Riverside era I left early, after their fourth goal. The previous time was the 2-0 home defeat against Man City before the ManU replay.
You cannot dish out performances like that and complain about the crowds. Gate banned any players coming out to speak to the press. What is wrong with a simple sorry to Mark Drury in the safety of the tunnel?
Gate will call for a response at Coventry. That is futile after letting down the home fans.
The irony is that as I watch SkySports they are off to the Riverside to preview the game as the home team tries to prevent a whitewash. Swap Boro for the England cricket team and we would do no worse against the Aussies as they would against the Baggies.
There is still a 'full' season of matches ahead, there are 38 games to get the points we need. This isnt the end of the the campaign for Boro but they deserve all the punishment they are getting. That is the consequence of such a pitiful, undisciplined display.
Wont stop me supporting and following them for the duration.
Back to the other Riverside and Botham on TV saying they haven't turned up, not putting all the disciplines together, basking in the glory of previous events, some of them are not good enough, cant get balance right. Wonder if he wants a job?
I don't know who was happier, he baggies fans who now think they have won the league or the Boro 'fans' who can now get on with what they do best - slagging off the boss.
Some people have hated every minute of the start. They have had to bite their tongue. They have had to read good things in the press, listen to their hate figures on the pitch being praised and some of them have choked as they have had to admit that Southgate had got some things right.
Now after ONE MATCH they can get the knives out again and normal service is resumed. They will all be on to the moaner in chief on the radio on Monday now and will hear the relief and glee in their voices. The sad fact the 'told you so's and stopped watches PREFER Boro to lose.
It was one match. It was disappointing but not a disaster. We have looked a cut above against the weaker sides and not quite good enough against the better ones. If that continues we will still be up there. There's no need for this bedwetting.
Although the ref with the shocking reputation (T Kettle) didn't help, and we have young and inexperienced team, this doesn't disguise the fact that this was another predictable failure in a big game from a Southgate team.
Gill and Brownlee shouldn't be too suprised at this result if they'd actually thought about it. I half expected us to come out all guns blazing after half time like a spirited Sheff Wed did on Friday night, but then i really ought to know better.
As for the crowd - recession, Teesside ingrained negativity and lack of glamour opposition for the plastics/floaters should all explain why 20,000+ home fans will be a decent turnout this season. We don't want the moaners back anyway do we?
A shocking display indeed, but sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and admit you are beaten by a much better side. Better organised, stronger and much more disciplined than Boro, West Brom deserved the margin of their victory.
Maybe a few of boro's players were beginning to believe their own hype, but at least now this result will bring them down to earth. I agree that it is how you react to a defeat of this magnitude that will count. I seem to remember Man U losing to the Geordies 5-0 but they still went on to claim the title. I don't see Boro been good enough for the Championship title, but I do believe we will be good enough for a top six place.
The attendance wasn't helped by the game being shown live and advertised in all the town centre pubs by the way. Maybe those part timers made the right choice.
A few observations from yesterday:
a]McMahon's position must be under scrutiny.After a string of average performances he was roasted all afternoon by Thomas.
b]Williams who has previously been excellent showed his inexperience and lost his composure and discipline.
c]Arca struggled in this game not through any lack of effort but because the player opposing him Molumbu was 2 yards faster.
d]Yeates was awful from start to finish.
After an even first half hour at 2-0 down we were outplayed against a team that looked strong in all areas.
As SteMac says the moaner in chief will have a field day next week on his show as his disciples of doom ring in. I wont be listening.
Ste Mac,
We Baggies fans think we have won the League??? You obviously do not know anything about Baggies fans. We are very proud of our team but the word arrogant could never be used against us.
We have every right to be delighted after our win at Boro (I thought we would lose)but I do not think we will win the league...and I am not on my own. (My choice is Newcastle). Our last three home games have been awful even though we won them all. Today was a one-off.
I have slept on it. It still hurts.
Of course, one problem might be that if this performance was a mystery to the coaching staff, one completely inexplicable capitulation, how can they ensure it doesn't happen again? If you don't understand what went wrong, how can you put it right?
Listened to the commentary of radio 5 and it sounds like we were very lucky it wasn't double the 5 they scored. They were indeed the better team.
We will only have occasional games against this sort of quality, so lots of these weakness points that are being made will not be relevent.
However, imagine us in the Premier League next season? I fear this scoreline would be a regular occurance. We need to stay in the Championship for now - our level!
Forever Dormo said:
"Just as in the Premier League Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have for years been "the contenders". Do you think it is likely Liverpool would lose 5-0 at home to Arsenal, or Man Utd 5-0 to Chelsea?"
Liverpool won 4-1 at Utd last season - look who won the title.
Boro can recover but the reality is this kind of result could happen again this season. Please Mr Gibson will you SACK this useless manager who should have been got rid of years ago.
A lack of senior pro's came home to roost yesterday. The kids gave up after we went two nil down. As Chris from Bev says, we need some real leadership. I think Wheater can do it but not yet maybe. Maybe there's still a role for the pog meister?
A couple of other points. I had high hopes for Yeates, but he looks out of his depth, and has anybody noticed his head appears small. McMahon's confidence looks shot, Thomas made him look dreadful yesterday although he wasn't helped by the aformentioned pin head. He needs someone to put an arm round him: he could make a captain.
Shawky - are we paying him? Answer Yes. Then why on earth is he not playing. He can't be any slower than the dying swan from Argentina. Goal Posts and back for them two on Tuesday. Whoever wins plays against Cov.
Anyway, lets hope this was a freak result.
Typical Southgate - change a winning side when playing the league leaders.
It would be interesting to see how many PL players WBA have held onto. Seems like GS is hoping the return of Digard with a fit GON will sort out his midfield but where is Josh Walker? Good enough to start in the Premier League but not the championship.
How much better were WBA than the Owls? Not seven goals better. I do know this defeat just shows how weak the side is and talk of returning to the PL unlikely, will surely be followed by a worse season than last.
The sale of the few class players we had, fielding a team of such inexperience, along with some players clearly not up to the challenge e.g Arca and Yeates results in defeats like this.
I have said for a while that GS and SG are watching different games to us, we look at the team we want to see promoted GS and SG look at a team they can present to the fans as a promotion winning side without providing either the managerial nous or the financial muscle. The team yesterday is a credit to our youth policy but will win us nothing without a decent manager. Over to you Gibbo.
I dont think anyone can complain about the crowd numbers that turned up for the game. The reality is, that in most Boro fans' minds, Gareth Southgate should have been sacked at the end of last season.
A couple of wins against weak championship opposition simply will not paper over the fact that the fans want a 'proper' manager.
The club has chosen to take no notice of what the fans want, and have decided to carry on regardless (head in the sand springs to mind). So what choice does a boro fan have? Do we turn up at the games and give the impression that Gareth has our full support, and therefore provide SG with evidence that he made the right choice? I think not.
I will not go to any more Boro games while Gareth Southgate remains in charge of the club. That is how strong I feel on the matter, and nothing will change that, not even promotion (which does not look likely).
Boro supporters have no faith, and no trust in Gareth Southgate, and the sooner he leaves, the sooner the club can get a manager that knows how to interpret a match, and is able to make the tactical changes required to change the course of that game.I have seen no evidence that Garth can do that.
It is ok putting out a team of mainly Premiership players against weak championship teams, but when it comes to playing against opposition that are of a similiar strength, then tactics become the deciding factor, of which Gareth appears to have none. We are as well having that 'nodding dog' off the telly advert on the touchline.
I don't buy into this blind faith request. I see what is in front of my eyes, and that is a club that is on the slide, and a club ownership unwilling to make the decision of change. What happened to the club review of last years train wreckage of a season. Yep, you got it, nothing. In my opinion, Boro have the worst manager at the club for perhaps the last twenty years.
The record of Gareth Southgates reign is:
Games played 146, won 43, drawn 43, lost 61.
win percentage = 29.6%
draw percentage = 29.6%
loss percentage = 41.7%
You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see that boro's record under Gareth Southgate is nothing short of abysmal.
You said it Vic. You said this was the first pivotal game of the season, the first occasion on which there might be a little pressure on the team to perform.
Bang on.
What occurred was an utterly spineless and gutless performance so reminiscent of those at the end of last season when the pressure was perpetually on. I watched the game with my head in my hands but when I could bear to watch, the abiding image was of Gareth Southgate, mute and motionless on the sidelines, utterly devoid of the first clue how to garner a response from his side.
It isn't defeat that hurts in these games; it is the manner of them. Any team, regardless of the ability it possesses, worth its salt, should have demonstrated a little fight or spirit to salvage professional pride and to give the fans the merest morsel to feed on.
But not us. Not once yesterday did we look remotely like responding. It was a complete capitulation. There is NO fight or spirit in this team because there is none in the manager. I listened to his interview after the game and it was pathetic. He tolerates the lowest of standards because they’re his.
We will bounce back because this team is better than most in this league but we will NEVER go up with this guy in charge because to do that you need to win the pivotal games at some point. We will bottle it because we ALWAYS have with him in charge.
Sorry but yesterday made me furious and embarrassed. But why should I feel that way when he patently doesn’t?
Desperate. And by the way there is no point railing against the stay away fans, you all know why they are not going. They have zero faith in the manager and unfortunately yesterday they were once again proved right.
0-5 Glad I stopped going. Hmm, don't know what to say really. Does anybody know how you get one of those fatwah's up and running ?
But you have to laugh at Gareth's comments - apparently he's "learned somethings about players and he's glad he learned it now rather than later ".
Such contempt for those that still support him (this blog) it's breathtaking.
"Anything that could go wrong did go wrong .."
Of course! That will happen while he's in charge.
Come on Coventry! 3-0 will tip the balance.
He'll drop McMahon he's been waiting for an excuse to drop him
That was a good old fashioned mugging by WBA and thoroughly deserved. They were professional in everything they did and certainly not the soft touch they were last year.
As for us, it is all right having a young team of bright,enthusiastic youngsters but yesterday's match cried out for a wise old head preferably in midfield to take stock, gain some possession and slowly find our way back into the game.Instead we lost our tempers,stopped thinking and stopped playing.
Consequently we discovered or had it confirmed that McMahon is at best an average full back for this league and limited in his forward play. Yeates is what we feared, a Division One player who made the wrong choices all afternoon.
We need to be harder mentally and physically, something unachievable with Southgate's management style.The players are all too nice and naive. Perhaps yesterday's slaughter might yield some benefits if we become tougher and dare I say it just a little bit nastier!!
Chill everyone, it's one game that hasn't actually cost us much. The reason for this is the results we have picked up away from home.
Lots of folk saying we've played three good teams and lost. That makes no sense. Look at the results of other teams - Scunny putting four past Preston for example All the teams in this league are pretty even.
I would put money on WBA dropping down over the season once the Mogga factor wears off. Anyone remember Peter Taylor following Mo'N? Top of the premier after six games?
Oh and Man City put four past Arsenal the other week - does that make Wenger a useless manager?
Stop the hand wringing and enjoy being 3rd in the league with lots more wins to come.
Or else go and find a team that wins every game, doesn't let any goals in and never has an off day.
Up the Boro
'Come on Coventry! 3-0 will tip the balance.'
Naive in the extreme and from a typical moaning non-attender.
It wasn't just the defeat. In all my years of watching Boro i have never, ever, seen a performance as bad as the one on saturday. To be comprehensively outplayed for so much of the game against another championship side, granted one of the better ones, is a disgrace. They could and should have won by 8 or 9 if their finishing had been better.
What worries me most though is that Gareth Southgate is still yet to sign a decent player. Not one in thre and a bit years, you would think with the laws of probability that at least one of his signings would be decent.
Couple this with the fact he has absolutely no clue as to which player is best in which position or indeed what is each players best position I really, really worry. If Middlesbroughs transfer policy is to sign young upcoming players you MUST MUST have a manager who can spot talent.
Regardless of whether we gain promotion or not Gareth has shown he can not judge a players ability. That is the ultimate flaw in a manager and can never be corrected. All the top managers occasionally sign a bum but it is a rarity and what makes them great is that generally they sign quality.
Emnes has been "turned" into a striker. He isn't a striker it was plain for all to see the only time he looked comfortable was when he was out wide in the position he played when we signed him. Gareth's turned him into a non scoring, weak centre forward.
WBA have a team full of players bought on the cheap who look so much better than our players. Jerome Thomas was a free transfer compare him to Yeates who looked slow, ponderous and lacking in any ideas. Everyone knew from his statistics that Folan was a big carthorse, we were right. Our full backs were caught out of position over and over again and both got ripped to shreds.
No positives at all in this game and unfortunately due to Gareths inability in knowing what constitutes a good player i can only see it getting worse. Consistently season on season since he took over our team has weakened. Yes there have been financial constraints but other managers have the ability to work within a tight budget our manager clearly can not. Absolutely gutted and thoroughly disheartened.
Would like to add that i was one of the fans at the game and feel I have every right to moan and vent my frustration on this website when i see a performance like that. I was thoroughly embarrassed to be a Boro fan on saturday. Yes i hope they turn it around on Saturday but even if we do get promoted Gareth will not keep us up there.
We have started the season well, but for question we seem to answer, two more appear in its place.
Despite the fairly good job Southgate has done so far, I can't help looking at two situations and wondering "what if?".
This time last year, Tottenham looked relegation certainties. Rednapp has come in and worked wonders...They will finish high this season.
A year and a bit ago, England was knocked out by Croatia with our own "Wally with a brolly" at the helm. Capello comes in and gets the best out of the players we have, and suddenly we are being bandied about as potential world cup winners.
I'm not calling for Southgate's head. I really like the guy...I want him to do well...but it's hard not to wonder "what if?".
Amazing that MFC spent all their dosh on another player for their strongest area (defending), and then after scoring less goals than any team in England, MFC replace Tuncay and Alves with Lita and a striker whom all the fans advised them NOT to sign.
If you have less ambition than Leeds, and your players are worse, then you will end up below Leeds.
It will be interesting to see what Gareth does now. Will he make a few changes to stress how unacceptable that performance was, or as they have performed so well this season, give Saturday's players a chance to redeem themselves?
I think he'll go with the latter, personally I'd lean towards the former. We have a squad, let's use it. Jones in for Coyne, Hoyte in for McMahon, Digard (if fit) in for Williams, Lita in for Emnes and hopefully GON is fit again to replace Yeates.
On the Tractorboys piece I said that although the gate against Ipswich was poor "On Saturday the Baggies will have a few thousand with them so it will be around 22,500 minimum" as it turns out it was a few hundred more. What I find surprising is that there are posters on here who are clearly in "Blind Faith" mode and believed/dreamed/hoped that the gate would be what, 5,000 more, 10,000 more?
The problems with the Teesside public and their relationship with the Club (be it MFC or Boro) over the last few years are well documented. Whether the half full brigade are right or the half empty brigade carry the sway is irrelevant. Middlesbrough is not a big enough conurbation to have a large percentage of dissenters as it has a punitive impact on the club because quite simply there is not enough foam handers left to carry things unlike one of our neighbours further North.
I'm one of the doubters (a serious doubter at that) but one who still goes and one who sat in abject silence and angst 5 minutes after the final whistle trying to wrestle with admiration for the Baggies consumate display, frustration at the Clown with the whistle and a new set of cards, headless chickens in red shirts and the familiar sight of a bench looking totally bereft of tactical nous.
Over the last few seasons we have faced a case of diminishing returns with a major injection of either cash or innovation required to re-unite Teesside. Until someone or something happens to restore pride, belief, confidence but most importantly trust, crowds will continue to dwindle, it is sadly self perpetuating.
I desperately tried to convince three mates (absent fans) to come to the match with me on Saturday but they were resolute in declining stating they felt misled, lied to and treated like mugs whilst they watched the decline of their Boro, they think I'm mad for still going and supporting. At 3.00 pm I thought they were mad for missing the game. At 5.00 pm the texts were flying thick and fast. Still next time I will be there as usual shouting myself hoarse and daring to dream.
.{Paul 9.31 on 20/9] makes some valid observations.I have no problem with extremely critical posts like his.
When I read the rubbish spouted by contributors such as scoredraw it rankles.Every post of his seems to big up McMahon. In fact if memory serves me correct he once suggested at the back end of last year that Mcmahon should leave Southgate's clutches to fulfil England ambitions.
I presume he last went to a game about 5 years ago when McMahon was 18 before he suffered his bad injuries. I dont want to single the lad out as he is an honest trier. However anybody who has watched the team this year can see that he is at best average and at worst struggling and we are in football's second tier. On Saturday he was tortured by Jerome Thomas for 90 minutes.
There are a body of people, some of whom contribute to this blog, that WANT the club and team to fail. Whether this is because they didnt get a ticket at Eindhoven or because McClaren apparently drove them away with his brand of football or they dislike Southgate this has turned them against the club that they profess to support. I actually find that quite sad.
So what do we do now? Sack GS? And who will take the reins?
His payout would be close to our full transfer kitty for January (21 months left on his contract) and who would take on this bunch knowing there is nothing to spend?
Suggestions please on a postcard to Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb.c/o MFC.
Also may be worth pointing out to Gibbo and The Count how easy it actually is to get someone to resign when you want them to. Anyway it won't happen so let's just get on supporting Boro, love the Boro and remember we are still 3rd.
Come On Boro
To all the 'Forest Gumpers' who still support Gareth:
Despite not being at the game I seem to have an advantage over you. Well it seems that way - because you don't seem have realised we got thumped 0-5 at home.
Not 0-1 or 0-2 but 5 nil.
Stockton Red / Patrick Steele
So the 0 - 5 score, is possibly down to McMahon or 'non attenders' like me ? Nobody else in the frame ? McMahon is great player who like all other players who come through the academy will take the blame for the managers ineptitude.
So it's not Ledger, Coyne, Yeates, Emnes, Aliadiare or Folan's fault? It's not Gareth's fault, who put together that glittering array of talent ? Put all the blame onto Tony MacMahon's shoulders ? - that's the sort of craven behaviour that deserves another relegation.
Patrick Steele: You're dressed in your ra ra skirt chanting give us a "G", give us an "A", give us an "R" ...... and you think I'm naive ?
Mind you I did like the "non-attender" tag it makes me feel so radical.
I love all these marvelous theories as to why fans are 'unhappy' apparently my 'bitterness' is down to not getting a ticket at Eindoven ! Brilliant. Nothing to do with having to pay to watch King, Folan, Aliadiare .... five centre halves ?
Anyone who thinks Johnson will be persuaded to sign a new contract by Gareth is truly a - 'deluded of Ingleby Barwick.'
Come on you Sky Bluesssssssssssssssssss
AV:
Please please no more excel speadsheets showing the disadvantages we face because of our inability to exploit revenue streams or the demographic obstacles in our way.
Our problem is that, faced with a choice of selecting Maradona or Aliadiere, I'm not sure who Gareth would pick and that is why we are up to our bottom lip in the brown stuff dreading the thought of the good ship Coventry to sailing by.
The timing of the recent announcement by Keith Lamb was perfect: "Don't worry everything is fine and dandy, financially we are now in sound position ... blah blah blah... move forward.... high wage earners .... blah blah "
He completely ignored the fact as far as decision making is concerned nothing has changed hence:
Boro 0 WBA 5
Score draw
You're naive if you think Southgate will get fired if we lose to Coventry. So long as there's a chance of promotion he'll be here and on the evidence to date that seems likely. You need to accept that cold reality and move on. I won't make you a ra-ra btw, but it might help your mental state.
Alternatively, if that is too much for your delicate consitution to handle, you could try M60 Jct 12 and follow the plastic hordes to Old Trafford where any kind of failure is simply not tolerated.
As for wanting the team to lose... jeez you really do need to get a grip instead of hitting the emotional ejaculation button all the time.
Finally McMahon - FYI he has been poor the last three games and seems to have lost some pace.
scoredraw -
you seem so angry and depressed... are you a true Boro fan? I think not
I can't even watch them on TV now so my opportunity to watch Boro has gone while they are not in the PL. But no matter what happens, nothing will ever make me support the oppostion.
At least you have the option to go to a game and see them if you want to. BUT YOU DON"T WANT TO..! So stay away, have your opinion but do not use it as an excuse not to attend if you are not a true fan. Or only go to away games if you think by not giving Boro your hard-earned will help.
This club needs everyone onside before we can get back to the Promised Land. And if GS is no good - he'll get found out in the first 10 games next season and SG will sack him then. And if that point is reached sooner this year, I am certain SG will take the necessary action sooner. One way or another you'll get the following: GS fails and gets sacked or he succeeds and we are back.
What you are doing only hurts the club because we are all certain the only thing SG cares about is the position of the team on the table. So if/when we start to lose touch then SG will react.
Incidentally, I, too, think we have a manager who has no bottle and now a team of rah-rah's in his image. BUT I WILL ALWAYS LOVE THE BORO. - and I don't care who plays for them or who manages them. They are my Boro, in my veins, in my blood always.
There are more effective ways to remove someone than a boycott, or cheap insults. We can prosper despite Gareth and not because of him. So here's my advice, take it if you like, it's free. Ignore it if you like and stay angry...
Get behind the team, support them whenever you can. Show you care in a positive way - Be constructive and not destructive.Show you love Boro by helping not hurting.
You never know, you may actually start liking this whole football thing again!!
Well that certainly hit a nerve with scoredraw...
Boro have had their well earned, thoroughly deserved kicking. No body can deny that they deserve full credit, not even the ref can deflect any of the flak.
I am now going to give the ref a bit of praise. Arca had been booked and was running about (scuttling may be more precise) looking for a fight. He committed another possible bookable offence by snapping at a Baggies player for 20 yards before fouling him (the Baggies player was walking so Arca could keep up). The ref played advantage and when play stopped called Arca and Wheater over and gave what appeared to be a warning of what would happen next. A top class piece of ref'ing - he was garbage most of the time for both sides.
Now we have to move on, yes you foam handers, it is possible to give the team the kicking they deserve, look forward to playing better next time and support the team. Criticising a shambles doesnt mean I want the team to lose or take pleasure in spending £60+ to watch that c***.
I tried to find an article I read about Arsenal but couldnt so I will give the gist. The view was that Arsenal played a lot of good football but occasionally implode - three goals in ten minutes at Citeh and two in no time at all against Liege and ManU.
They lack grit and Wenger has not replaced Vieira, Gilberto, Flamini who provided that strength in midfield in previous teams. They are also lacking at the back - Gallas is hardly an inspiring role model.
Watching our display on Saturday gave credence to Boro being Arsenal Lite. We havent adequately replaced any of the midfield players we allowed to go. I have no quibbles with them leaving but plenty for non coming in.
Mulumbu dominated midfield and we had no one to cope with his power and athleticism. Bless his Adidas breathable, hi tech material socks but Arca was run off his little legs. He doesnt have the pace, strength or time to cope in a central role in a 4-4-2 at this level and his buddy Williams is not yet capable of carrying him.
Arca could cope in a 4-5-1/4-3-3 alongside O'Neill and Digard/Williams in a compact formation but in a central two he is likely to get caught out. Same was true of Rocky and Mendi, their best performances were in a midfield three which gave them time and protection to be more flamboyant.
The week before we had 45% possession at home but won because Ipswich are not yet good enough. We had the same against Baggies but they are the next step up from the Tractor Boys. But so should we be.
The obvious midfield two are O'Neill and Digard (if fit) for the energy they bring to the team. Gate didnt have them available and has no suitable alternatives to compete at the level we need to be at.
There were faults all over the pitch but in a large part, they spring from an inability to control the football. That doesnt mean that we would have won if we had our strongest team out but we wouldnt have been humiliated. It bears repeating that they had several key players out injured as well.
So where next? Like BoroPhil I agree we should use our squad. Hoyte for McMahon would give us better options going forward but for all his problems on Saturday, McMahon is better defensively. He was left badly exposed by us surrendering possession and leaving him isolated as Yeates went AWOL.
I wouldnt put O'Neill right side as we are better served with him in the middle alongside Digard if both are fit. Could play Emnes on the right where he will have more space.
Up front, it is hard to choose as no one had a real chance on Saturday.
Hopefully the coaching team have sat down and watched the video of the match and picked a few pointers. We dont have that luxury, my thoughts are from watching the match once and if I sat through the match DVD may decide I have got it wrong.
What I havent got wrong is the scale of the shambles and the fragility of the group of players we have at our disposal.
Redcar Red raises an interesting point to debate on the size of the crowd and the unrealistic expectation of some people as to what it would be on Saturday.
In the old days at Ayresome with little live televised football there were few ST holders and most people paid cash at the turnstiles. A decent away result would see an obvious response in crowd numbers and there would be considerable fluctuation dependent on how the team was doing.
Since the Riverside the vast majority attend with Season tickets.If you think that at a time we have had 20000 ST holders we have had attendances of 23000 for unattractive PL fixtures it shows how few "walk up " customers there are.
On Saturday if you take off the away support and the 15000 ST holders there was a walk up of 6000. That will be a high point for the season except for the Newcastle game. If we stay up at the top I would expect a season average of 20000. It will not exceed that and I dont believe that a change in the manager's identity would make anything more than a marginal difference to this figure.
Boro fans in hysterical over reaction to defeat shock!
So Boro lost. It is not the first time. The world won't spin of its axis because we lost it after a freak opener and got gubbed. We will batter Coventry now and it is as you were. I you had been offered this points total and position after eight games back in August you would have grabbed it.
But don't let that stop anyone putting the knife in. Afetr all, you've been sat their seething and sharpening it all season so I can't blame you taking the first excuse.
The ironic thing is that all the know alls and mystics who are saying this is evidence of S'Gate being useless were all the ones predicting at the start that we'd be in a relegation spot by now. You should be praising him for exceeding your expectations.
Hey AV, I was away at the weekend, did i miss much?..........oh dear.
Can we just write this off and move on? I don't know, begining to think I don't care.
Its not just he defeat that worries me but the fact in the second half the players had no fight in them. This along with the manager stood on the touchline with his arms folded unable to gee up his team is the main issue.
This was a carbon copy of last season when we were losing matches week in week out. This must be addressed if we are to be promoted because against decent teams we will struggle all though we will comfortably beat the poorer teams.
Come on Mr Southgate show us you have learnt what you keep saying you have learnt and inspire your team and employ some tactics.
Well done to Brom, they really took us apart.
I would question unsettling the back four with a new guy for what was always gonna be one of the harder games in this league.
More important is our weakness in midfield. One of O'Neil or Digard is essential and both against the better teams but we havent got cover for them and they are regularly injured. It was the same in the prem.
What are we paying Shawky for if you wont play him Gareth. Give him a game as at this level he might just prove you wrong.
Brisbane Phil:
You are looking at things the wrong way round (which shouldn't surprise anyone you being in Australia and all). It's because I'm a Boro fan that I'm, as you say 'angry and depressed' - they got needlessly relegated last year and got tonked 5 nil at the weekend consequently I'm not skipping to work on a cloud of optimism.
To clarify things even further - if the Boro were mid-table in the premiership I wouldn't be as you say 'angry and depressed'.
The swiftest and most painless solution is another good 'gubbin' preferably at home so the 'Forest Gumps' have to sit through it then maybe we could get new manager ?
Patrick Steele:
So if I don't like it I should go to Old Trafford ? You're obviously a free thinker.
Well I'm afraid the bad news is I'm staying - but I suspect your idol is about to leave (but he won't be going to Man Utd either !)
Ian Gill:
What an honest and decent defence of Tony McMahon.
'So if I don't like it I should go to Old Trafford ?'
No, you're making assumptions. Again. But it might help you in your emotionally-fragile condition. Just offering advice.
I think if you look at my first post you'll see I'm not Southgate's biggest fan either. Obviously however I bow down to your superior inside knowledge if he really is about to get the boot (presumably you'll also have wager on this as i'd expect the odds would be pretty generous atm).
Wake up call of note.
Main problem definitely cover in midfield. We've played two of the bigger sides without GON and lost them both.
Agree with earlier messages a lot of games to play it is very important one or both GON and Digard are available for these top games, also Emmes on the right again for the big games.Yeats definatly not up to this type of game.
We have a good squad so lets use it wisely most of them can stand up to most of whats in this league even Arca and thats saying a lot. But we need our strongest team against the Baggies, Mags etc think wiser Gareth.
Saturday still hurts but I think there are only few points left to add to the debate:
1. My dad is a bigger fan than your dad
2. I'm sure I'm feeling more upset than you but I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram (afterall we're in a recession and they're quite expensive to replace)
3. I knew Southgate wasn't up to winning all of our games
OK, I think I'm over it now...
What would have happened this season if G O'neil had been allowed to leave?!
Patrick Steele:
You say you are a critic of Gareth but it's me that you suggest should find another club. Uneven treatment don't you think ? Admittedly I would find it easier to get a new club than Gareth.
So the Man Utd 'address' is M60 Jct 12 ? You won't be needing to tap that into the Sat Nav for a while.
Mind you it is a laugh isn't ?
Gareth is being Corporal Jones now - "Don't panic, don't panic, don't panic .... "
I'll be Fraser - you can be Pike.
Went to the match on Saturday expecting good crowd after recent results, top of the table clash, good atmosphere ect.
Came away from the game worried about where Boro are today. 22,000 for a big game, that gate will seem huge compared to what will turn up for the remaining games.
The quality of players Boro can now afford or attract shows where we are at this time. Forlon made Amiobie and Andy Carol look like world beaters.
All I can see in the short term is play off position, lose Wheater, Oneil and Johnson in the summer and take another step back next season into mid table championship.
Steve Gibson has been fantastic for Boro but the cash required to get us back in the premier league seems to be right out of his reach now. The only way I can see Boro moving on now is for a new chairmen willing to invest £70-100m in the club.
Brisbane Phil:
Thanks for your homespun Aussie advice but you lost me when you said "IF gareth is no good he'll be found out ......" If he's no good ??
Sorry I can't swallow all that sentimental stuff about "my Boro". In your case absence clearly makes the heart grow fonder. Somehow I don't think that'll happen to me.
Have you considered that maybe the reason you are 'happy' is because you never see "Gareth Southgates Red and White Army !!!"
G'day you 'non attender'
AV, what has been the record number of comments on one of your blogs? Did that come after a beating or win?
**AV writes: We've had over 100 loads of times and couple over 150, usually after defeats. I think the highest was 162 or something. I can't remember exactly what but it will have been something that had the foamies and Slavenistas at each others' throats. I think one of the 150ers was the defeat at West Brom last season.
AV - your reply to Smogonthetyne at 2.40pm
You are being far too modest. You probably had many hundreds of posts when your system went Kaput some weeks ago.
There was a post there that loads of us tried to respond to, again and again, without success. All our best efforts disappeared into the ether, until you got the young IT boffins away from their comics, X-Box and PS3 to sort out the problem.
And I can remember at least a couple of times punching the air in jubilation, believing I had won the fabled opulent prize for the 100th Post on a topic, only to find my hopes dashed by another "goal poacher" hanging around the 6 yard box, who poked the ball over the line before me. Curses!
**AV writes: We are currently just short of the 35,000th post... I'll give you a signal Dormo so you can start your run-up into the box. The average is running at just under 40 comments per topic. But its about quality not quantity.
AV
Saturdays match deserves a much bigger number of comments than the 61 up until now. It is a concern that more people are not posting because that shows that maybe many just cant be bothered anymore, maybe we are getting the blog we can afford.
Joking aside, it is a real concern that they cant even be bothered to SHOUT.
**AV writes: I have noticed a drop off this season but I can't be sure if that is a general malaise around the club and the game that is seen in gates on matchday or if it is because of the technical problems we had last month. Sometimes if people try a few times and get no joy they don't bother again.
A few people have not been seen for a while - you would think TB would be in his element now but I don't think he has posted this season. Richard has dropped off the radar too.
That said, users and page impression figures are holding up. We get something like 25-30,000 unique IP addresses logging in every month so people are still reading. I reckon I could blow the server if I called for Southgate's head.
| came on this blog last December and had the audacity,according to some Boro fans, to suggest relegation under Mr Southgates tutorship might be a possibility. It so transpired.
He is still here failing miserably to do the job he is paid for - 5-0 at home to a side which finished below us in the Prem is a disgrace, not a bad day at the office Mr Southgate. Please go now before you take us to our next relegation...you have been warned Mr Gibson, get a proper manager and put 5000-6000 on the gate immediately
Ian Gill at 7.01pm -
Maybe there has been a relatively limited number of contributions because many people who would otherwise have put together a rant, or even a gently worded note of concern, are still under sedation after Saturday's nightmare. It is still far too early to reduce the dosage, and violent reactions might be noted when consciousness is resumed.
Post traumatic stress disorder has already been diagnosed in groups of supporters who witnessed the car-crash from the West Stand. The effect on children in the Family area cannot yet be estimated.
Luckily many from the East Stand were fortunately blinded by the unseasonal sunshine that bathed the Riverside for the WBA game, and so didn't witness the debacle.
It has come to this: even many of the hardened characters from the North Stand could be found outside the ground weeping on their way back from the game. Arguments broke out amongst friends as to whether our heroes had been toppled by West Brom morphing into Juventus, or whether we had suddenly been transformed into Rotherham (but the best guess was that it was a combination of the two).
For many of those who have come out of treatment, the wounds are still too raw to allow the passing of a considered opinion. The best medical view is that it will be a week or more before the anger boils over. At present, all we have is a foretaste. Does anyone round here know what bile tastes like?
Not much to add to what's been said above. I was there. Nuff said, but I have one comment and one question.
Comment:- 3-0 down at half-time. Most sides having played like that would have got a right rollocking from the gaffer. What would Bruce Rioch have said? It looked like we got Iain Duncan-Smith again. And where was Alan Smith when we needed him?
Question:- Am I the ony one who wondered why Aliadiere was taken off immediately Baggies scored their second? Was he injured? OK, so he hadn't played well (nor had anyone), but he had scored three in his two previous games. Another case of Gate replacing a striker when he starts to score, as he did with Mido and Alves?
And to replace him with plan B - let's attempt to put the ball on the head of the big donkey - was surely crass. Folan looked less than useless, less effective even than Marlon King. Let's hope he goes on to prove us all wrong.
I was chuffed with the start Gareth made - we had done really well. Now he has to get us back `on track pronto, or the knives really will be out big style. Mine's still in the drawer, but I've bought a new sharpener.
**AV writes: Aliadiere had 'tweaked a hammy.' He had actually been limped earlier.
Scoredraw...
G'day - beautiful morning down here. 24 degrees at 8am - you still under your cloud I see!
So - non-attender hey! well I still buy my season ticket every year, and have done since Ayresome Park when I was a member of the 'Hundred Club' - I don't expect an apology - you didn't know. Most of the time it gets used by members of my family, except the three or 4 matches a year when I am in Europe and ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL spend my weekends centred around a trip to the Riverside.
That is the loyalty which got me a ticket to Eindhoven and after listening to my Grandad talk about never getting beyond FACup 6th round in his 76 years, I will always be grateful for the memories of the last 10 years.
I'd say I am fan and love Boro - you might disagree - you call it sentimental, I call it the real world. Don't use your anger to dismiss me, but understand where we are. You seem to have missed the point of the paragraph you quoted from. The point is this..."One way or another you'll get the following: GS fails and gets sacked or he succeeds and we are back."
You'd say he's already failed, I say listen to what Gibbo said in his blind faith interview... GS assessment starts now from Gibbo- we can only guess his brief but I'd suggest the number one priority three years ago was trim the wage bill, keep us competetive if you can. Obviously SG was thinking if we go down he will get assessed after 10, then 20, then 30 games and when we lose touch he's gone.
But hey, we're in touch, and if you'd been offered 3rd place with +5 g'diff after 8 games you'd probably have said fine. As would I. And don't forget GS might just succeed and get us back to the PL. So now where to...
Well here's anothe piece of 'homespun' advice (this piece is homespun from North Ormesby, where I grew up).... stop yer whinging. It worked for me so it may help you- I do hope so.
Meanwhile enjoy the wins against the poor sides, critise when we don't win, but don't berate the club about things we cannot change. Last year is gone, get over it.
I've posted a few that have been lost.
I posted one last night that may have been censored!
**AV writes: Hmmmm. I haven't had the big black pen out.
Dateline September 20th 2014
"Just wanted to post and say how disgusted I was by the size of the crowd for the big game last Saturday, typical of the moaners who stay away from matches and do nothing to support the club. Our present predicament can definetly be laid at the door of the thousands of stay aways (I do not call them fans).
"Once more we will be hearing the calls for the resignation of that nice Mr. Southgate, have a look at his record so far, to have won almost one hundred and fifty out of the six hundred games that he has been in charge for is quite some record. A top drawer manager as promised by Mr. Gibson. No doubt there will still be criticism of Mr. Gibson and after all he has done for the club. I still have faith in him, and as Mr. Lamd said we have just about now got the team we deserve.
"Why don't the knockers realize that there are still plenty of games to go and the team has shown what it can do with wins at Oswestry and Leek Town, once Digard and Gary O'Neil are fit again I am sure we will be up in the top two or three. Time to get behind the team and support them in their next two games against Blyth Spartans and Macclesfield. We can win the Blue Circle League no problem. If you don't like it them go off and support Sunderland in the Champions League or Newcastle in the Europa Cup."
I have read some absurd things on this board, people are being blamed because they do not go to watch a five nil home defeat - bizarre, peole are blamed for staying away when the club is in head long decline -ridiculous.
Meanwhile the perpetrators of this misery get away scot free.
Ah well roll on the Blue Circle Premier league or whatever it is called by the time our path into oblivion is complete.
Just back from business trip and only found out the score on Sunday afternoon.
It should be time for Mr Southgate to shut his mouth. Here is part of a quote: "WE DID NOT HAVE THE ENERGY TO GET BACK INTO THE GAME AFTER THEIR FIRST GOAL" is this guy for real - they SCORED AFTER 17 MINUTES
We have only played two of the supposed top teams at home and we have been rubbish in both games and never even looked like scoring a goal. After having nearly a settled team he is going back to his chopping and changing.
I am going to be perfectly honest. We may be ok against many of the teams in this league, however, I cannot see us getting anything against any of the better teams, because Southgate does not have the tactical no-how and most of the players are only second division calibre players.
This is going to be a hard season. I am not just writing this after this defeat, what I have wrote above has been evident for all to see. We have not played well but we have won a few games. We are fed up with your "lessons to be learned" Mr Southgate, because the only one who does not learn is YOU.
AV - my comment from around 3pm has vanished I see.
I was talking about the strength in depth of the Newcastle midfield. Macmahon will not be up against Jerome Thomas every week although a few of the younger players lost it due to the ref and never gained that composure. Williams gave the ref no choice but to give a free kick in a dangerous area.
**AV writes: Hmmm. Two posts disappeared into the ether? The system must be "doing a Shawky."
Brisbane Phil:
Hey don't you think you've got a cheek taking me through a three page history, talking about your grandad, the Jarrow march and finishing off with "last year is gone .. get over it" ?
I was fascinated to hear you still buy a season ticket but not sure I understand the rationale? Is it to punish your abandoned family by making one of them attend in your absence? Don't tell me it's to secure your seat when we play Barcelona in the Champions League ?
It did get me thinking how many 'Ghost Seats' we have at the stadium ? I'll bet on Saturday there was a few ticket holding Boro lads working a 100 feet below the seabed in the 'leg' of a North Sea oil-rig thinking - "thank God I'm down here"
But anyway thanks for the 'anger therapy' I need all the help I can get. Although I have developed a few coping strategies that help me through it. On Saturday night I ordered 81 deep pan pizzas from Pizza Hut (well they encouraged him to see profit in failure) and had them delivered to my old haunts in 'East Teesside'. That'll teach em ...
I've been phoning up Crimewatch trying to persuade them to start a 'Most Unwanted' section (our lass, Gareth .......)
But let me take this opportunity to thank you, Patrick Steele, Stockton Ned and all the other 'sentimentalists' for your help in victim support. I don't know where I'd be without you.
Come on you Sky Bluesssssssss
Brisbane Phil
I agree that we have to move on, we are not going to change Gibbo's mind, he is as stubborn as the rest of the inhabitants of Teesside brought up in the 'be reasonable and do it my way' philosphy.
What I would say is last year is not gone, it came flooding back in front of our very own eyes on Saturday. It was an emotional hosing down of the worst sporting kind. All the problems that created the crash of last season reappeared, the lining paper had dried out and the underlying cracks were still there for all to see.
It was not a disaster, no one died, it was just painful. We will be too good for most of the teams in the division. there are two games left before we reach the ten game test, Coventry away and Leicester at home. Both teams are in that group with a chance of the play offs so after those games it will be a fair assessment of where we are.
Why do so many fans look down on other fans because they believe they are not true fans unless they are prepared to offer blind faith?
To be a fan, it's not actually complusory to attend matches and believe it or not many people go to a match to enjoy the football on offer, otherwise why go at all if it's only the result that matters?
Though I accept that to many people it's hold on them is worse than addictive illegal substances and would never contemplate not attending matches - but where I draw the line is when people start with self-righteous condemnation of fans who choose to follow their club in a different way. There is nothing strange in having a view on what is wrong and offering fair criticism of the decisions made by the people in charge - especially if they say one thing and do another.
I wonder how many season tickets would have been sold if Boro fans were told in advance that we're going to sell half-a-dozen big earners and replace them with a couple of League 2 players, an out-of-contract Championship striker, a promising young Championship defender and Hull's fifth choice Striker.
Being a Boro fan is part of my cultural identitiy, but since MFC is now effectively a benign dictatorship fans are being increasingly marginalised. How many people are happy being serfs to Lord Gibson? Perhaps you'd see a better attendance at matches if fans had a sense of ownership of their local club - why should a single man own their cultural identity? Where's the democratic principle that seems to be so important in every other aspect of life? Even Saturday night TV is now democratic!
"AV - my comment from around 3pm has vanished I see. I was talking about the strength in depth of the Newcastle midfield. "
What strength in depth is that then?
Are you referring to the blistering pace and stunning creativity of Butt, Barton Smith Nolan Guthrie and Geremi who have miraculously ground out a few results despite playing rubbish in almost every match so far this season.
I would still say that automatic promotion is there for Boro to throw away because Newcastle will not sustain their decent start with so many one paced plodders in the squad and I dont see anyone else in this division who is better than the Boro other than West Brom..
**AV writes: Praise be for and outside perspective from an unexpected source.
To be honest I think our start of the season has been better than I expected. We have all seen areas for concern in the team. But we are a cash strapped championship side, there are bound to be flaws.
Yes the result and performance against West Brom was unacceptable, but these results happen. I remember the last time we got promoted, in one week we got walloped at Forest (scared for life) and then at lowly QPR. Even last year a Leroy Lita inspired Norwich put five past eventual champions Wolves.
Lets sit tight and see how the next four games go. With a near fully fit squad we should see a reaction and be able to gauge where the season is headed.
If we do have a wobble the inevitable calls for Southgate’s head would start. So let’s try and be a bit constructive. Who would replace him? Whispering Steve Coppell, Paul Jewell, Dave Bassett, Denis Wise, My Dad, Graeme Souness, David O’Leary
**AV writes: Aliadiere had 'tweaked a hammy.' He had actually been limped earlier.
Do you mean he'd actually been limp earlier? (or have I just not got your joke?) Back to the Femmer Frenchie at the first sign of trouble.
A proportion of the stayaways - over and above those disgusted with last season (and the two before), Softgoat, broken promises etc - could well be down to the quality of the product.
I've seen enough games from the stands this season to have it confirmed that this is a league with poor fare on the field compared to The Prem.
I have enjoyed it when we've won, of course, but there's been little to commend any of the games I've seen so far as a football spectacle.
A mate who supports one of the London long time Prem sides. He went - against his better judgement - to a Championship game with another friend whose team languishes in the same nether world as Boro currently do. He expressed himself shocked at the quality - or lack of it - and the resultant entertainment on show.
It's a product for the diehard, I'm afraid - particularly in straightened times when discretionary spend is necessarily limited - and we're gradually being peeled back to the core - of which there aren't as many of us as there used to be.
And I'm not going to blame anyone else for choosing not to go when the product isn't value for their money in their view. They have to be won back.
Since it's obvious that Boro continue to be way short in midfield and character how about a loan for long term target Ferrie Bodde from The Swans now that he's fit and firing again?
Granted, he may be at Wigan in January - but we can take advantage until then and have a chance to add more then ourselves when both Johnno and GON are likely to be targets for others.
If anyone can hear clapping down here it's just me giving Brisbane Phil a well deserved standing ovation. Nice one Brisbane Phil!
Hey Scoredraw
They are not "Ghost Seats", they get used. I was working abroad for 5 years and kept renewing my season ticket - it was always used by either my brother or brother-in-law. Same with most of the lads offshore North Sea.
As for 'Come on you SkyBlues.' Sums up the sort of 'supporter' that you are really...
Come On Boro!
Some people believe the attendance on Saturday was poor but realistically what did people expect? I have supported the boro for 30 years now and we have never over that period had a consistent fanbase any where near the 30k mark.
The 35k attendances during the late 90's were never ever going to be maintained unless something exceptional happened on the pitch.The club expanded the ground for what I believe was short term revenue gain, but has now left us with a white elephant of a stadium. At the Ipswich game there were nearly 16,000 empty seats and regardless of how well we play we will probably max out at 23/24k.
It has happened to bigger and better clubs than us, Juventus moved from the always half empty Stadio Alpi (70k) to the 25k Olympic stadium. Look at teams of similar size;
WBA 26,000
Bolton 28,000
Fulham 22,000
Hull 25,000
Portsmouth 20,000
Stoke 28,000
I don't believe our attendances are poor, they are similar or better than a lot of similar sized clubs around us, but I do believe it is going to be extremely difficult to generate any sort of atmosphere with 10-12,000 empty seats.
Mohammad Abdullah
You say you have read some stupid things on this website, well how more stupid can it be that the nice Mr Southgate has a great record where has he won 150 out of 600 games. I will have a pint of what you are drinking his record in managemennt is very poor.
**AV writes: I think there may have been some tongue in cheek going on there.
I see that Uncle Eric - or is it one of the Subs - thinks that the Boro squad is giving Gate 'selection headaches'.
Not a surprise - many of them give me a pain in quite a different part of my anatomy as well as headaches - usually from banging my head against the wall in frustration!
GS on MFC website:
"Criticism is understandably going to come our way, but we're not failures because of one performance."
No, you are not failures because of one performance. Try the 120 odd league games you have managed over three and a bit years - that pretty much adds up to failure as far as I am concerned.
Losing 0-5 at home against any team in the world is embarrassing (Chelsea this time last season) but after 0-1 and 0-3 against WBA last season and now this....its pathetic.
Two half decent teams played in terms of the CCC, 1 point gained and 5 points lost.
Vic, It's gone spacewalking again!! I submitted it before lunchtime and it's disappeared.
**AV writes: I'll look down the back of the settee. Sometimes things get parked in quarentine.
The evidence that supports the 'Blip' theory is interesting.
It ignores, of course, the results against the cadre of likely top sides and when GO'N is missing for this season which could be argued to reveal an embryo pattern that repeats last season's start.
And among 'Great Blips of The Past' when propmtion seasons have had a 'shock defeat' followed by a decent run I can't yet see any of the shocks being a home defeat to a close rival by five clear goals. Maybe someone can point out my error if I'm wrong.
Bouncebackability is a must for Saturday.
Well not much I can add to the debate, we got tonked good and proper, well done to the Baggies a team in top form at the moment. Boro were clearly poor but thats life it will happen but hopefully not too often.
My view on the number of posts on here being down this season is because overall it has to date proved to be a good season and when good things happen people feel less inclined to comment. When things are going badly sending a post to have a moan is clearly good therapy!!
As for Richard and TB maybe they represent 'supporters' who only follow premiership clubs........
After the defeat on Saturday I stuck on my foam hand and breathed deeply on the fumes in the hope I could find a positive or two, the best I could come up with was back in 1974 Boro were tonked 5-1 by forest and won the 2nd division title by a canter.
The difference between then and now of course was then we had Souness now we have....nobody approaching that class.
Just noticed our game at Sid James has been moved from sat 19th Dec to Sunday 20th 1pm Kick off. Not pleased at all as work rota’s, child care etc have to be planned a long way in advance, especially around Christmas. Fair enough I have been given a quarter of a years notice but still, I want to have whinge. I thought this sort of thing wouldn’t happen this season.
Does this mean you get paid over time AV? I hope someone is better off out of this. What kind of cut will the club receive from the BBC?
**AV writes: Ha! Overtime! We work matches, that is our normal shift patter. We just have to accept they are moveable feasts. I'm not sure how much a BBC league match is worth. I think FA Cup games on the Beeb last year were worth just short of £200,000 but I don't know about this deal. I'll ask.
I found Werdermouths last paragraph today very interesting.Is there any chance of doing a piece on this AV in the paper on the issue of widening the ownership of the club.Don't Barcelona have something like this???
**AV writes: I have written on the subject in the past but I don't mind revisiting it. I think even a token share issue for a small slice would help fans "buy in" to the club's project but the top man is opposed because it would tie his hands politically and make the club far less flexible inside the Bulkhaul structure.
BakuTonY:
I realised the seats are used - I just suggested that on Saturday someone working a 100 feet beneath the seabed in the North Sea might have thought that they were 'lucky' to be there instead of at the Riverside - It was a joke (just like the performance)
I am a different supporter to you - I suspect I'm different to you in many ways.
I can enjoy the Boro even if they are getting beat regularly as long as they have some good players and try to play good football. I can enjoy a game even if the Boro get tonked by a good football team (Arsenal 2 -6). I enjoy watching good footballers no matter who they play for.
King, Hulse, Folan ...Aliadiare ... Sorry not acceptable. 5 centre halves ! No thanks......
I happen to think there is NO chance retaining good players and playing good football while Gareth is in place and the likes of you (absentee landlord) are singing his praises.
You buy a season ticket, send your 'proxies' to watch half the games and think you are superior somehow. The purchase of a season ticket you can't use is clearly some sort of statement but I not sure what it says about you.
Me ? I like watching good footballers especially if they play for the Boro which I consider my club, even if i don't own a timeshare season ticket.
The best and quickest way to get to a position where we can have a chance of getting good players and good football is to change the manager. Because Gareth has your unquestioning support together with St Steves the only option is:
Come on you Skybluesssssss
AV, going back to the shrinking crowd’s question. I was taking a look at the Paul Thompson photography link (on the right hand side of this page) and some of the photo’s at Ayresome park (did he ever take a photo when we won!!). One shows fans queuing up to pay £8 at the turnstile to stand. And this was a championship winning season. £8, I remember going but no the cost was it really that cheap?
Anyway maybe the safe standing idea should be explored again. I understand the tragic events at Hillsborough and the brilliant all seater stadiums this country can now boast, is a persuasive argument to move away from standing, but we still have it at some football grounds in the UK and all other major sports have standing. Not to mention in some European leagues.
Would it be viable to turn the lower half of the North Stand in to a standing area? Do fellow supports still wish to stand, I know I do. Maybe this might add to the ‘it’ factor. Would be interested in all your thoughts.
**AV writes: The safety people say the rake of the stand is to steep for standing... but it doesn't look any steeper than many in Europe. It is a political question more than anything. Away fans appear to far less susceptible to the dangers.
Smogonthetyne said:
"Who would replace him?(Southgate) Whispering Steve Coppell, Paul Jewell, Dave Bassett, Denis Wise, My Dad, Graeme Souness, David O’Leary?"
Although they would at one time have been low on my list of managers, I would take any of them over GS at the moment. At least they put out teams that look motivated and they can make tactical changes.!! Sadly GS has not become a better manager than he was last year - it would just seem that the wins he has had have been against very poor teams.
I pointed out in this blog recently that we had not performed against the teams who may be challenging us for promotion. Others now seem to be noticing this and mentioning this fact. If you look at the current table, every team we have beaten is in the bottom half. Of those we have played in the top half of the table we have won 1 point out of 9. Saturday simply kept this record going. Coventry are (just) in the top half - what can we expect this weekend???
As a fans of long standing my son and I, through places we had to work has meant we have missed many matches. Our seats could not always be filled but as ST holders the club received what support that we could give.
However after 3 seasons of zero entertaiment value I decided that the club management had become complacent, hence Lambs statement during the previous close season, that were are an established PL club and that He and SG knew exactly what was required to keep us in that position.
Finally SG said Relegation was a shock to him although to me it was on the cards at Xmas and that coupled with the blind faith appeal and being asked to shell out for the next season before that one had finished was just too much.
I decided I would not go while GS was in his job although I was considering going on Saturday but thank god that I thought better of it.
Nigel
I think in 1974 we had a boss in BIG JACK who new how to get the best out of his players. I dont think southgate can. Look at his buys - not one is good enough.
Don't know no about St Ledger yet and NO WAY Folan midfield for sat
Johnson - Digard -GON -EMNES
There is an undeniable logic to the post from David at 5.30pm. Reminding us about the "established PL club..." and relegation had "come out of the blue" quotes made the eyebrows go up again, just like when the comments were first made.
Maybe if you are in the forest (in the dugout or the boardroom), it is sometimes difficult to see the wood for the trees, but for many in the stands and on this blog, we could see it coming (even if we hoped against hope that there was a way out).
In the final analysis a football club is a business and no business can succeed if the customers refuse to buy the product. Unless, that is, the club has a billionaire sugar daddy, in which case the only one who has to be satisfied is The Daddy.
Unless and until that time comes about, it is important for the Boro to get the supporters "onside". In that regard, the results on the field so far this season (the WBA game being a massive exception) have been more successful than the noises coming from the boardroom and the coaching staff.
Note to Keith Lamb.
The club will get the fans they deserve.
Just read:
"Boro squad gives Southgate selection headache"
laughed so much I nearly wet myself.....................then I realised the joke was on me!
Some football fans are just infants. If things don't go their way - if results go badly, or the club sign someone they don't like, or if the club can't afford to spend £10zillion, if they don't like the kit or if Boro don't open a ticket kiosk at the end of their street and charge a fiver with a free burger and pint included - they stomp off in a huff to their room.
Then they text all their mates (or post on this blog) saying life's not fair, they are not going again until they get a personal public apology from Steve Gibson and they never really liked Boro anyway and they faked all their orgasms. I actually feel embarrassed for them.
I watch the red faced drooling idiots screaming abuse at players, officials and opposition fans (the dim fat blokes taunting the West Brom fans in the South Stand on Saturday for instance) and I wonder when the game changed to one where the need to be seen to be conspicuously angry and ridiculous posturing with demands for instant success became the default.
I must admit I read on here about people who say they feel furious, betrayed, lied to, insulted to their core cheated and denied their basic democratic and human rights and I feel inadequate. I just don't get all that consumed by it. Sorry.
After a bad game I am disappointed but it has gone by the time I get in the car. All you furious types cheering for the other lot as a protest must be better fans than me in some weird way I don't understand.
On the offchance this is Post 100, can I ask that the Mercedes M series that I understand to be the prize, is delivered in Arctic Blue?
**AV writes: Close, but no cigar.
His time will come. Me and scoredraw will have our way. The long Gibbo holds out the lower the crowd. Soon the sycophants will be down to just the 15,000 ST and you rar-ras can cheer all the way to 1985.
I agree with Mr Average. The bedwetters should get a grip. Boro are third and have taken 16 points from 8 games. When was the last time that happened? Enjoy it for what it is, not moan about what it isn't.
Have I done it again? Denied Dormo his car change?
**AV writes: Flag goes up .... "and seeking to gain an advantage."
Is this the one for the box of Havanas?
**AV writes: Such cynical head-line attempts
Oh Nuts!! I think Holgate Ender will probably be driving to the Riverside in a Cuban smog-filled Arctic Blue M-Class!! Ah well! Better luck next time eh? I guess Dormo and I will just have to walk in the fresh air.
**AV writes: Maybe you should ask Holgate Ender for a lift?
scoredraw:
It's really good to see you're taking some of the therapy on board. Nothing wrong with a little history though my friend, Do I suspect a little envy in your tone? My tickets get used, but you've worked that out by now anyway.
As for us both being supporters, well I have to say I'm happy to be a different sort of supporter to you. Unless, that is, you think on Saturday we'll be wearing our change strip for the Coventry game, hence your desire for a sky blue win (though technically it's cyan for Boro!!)...
AV
If this is number 100 can you send something (anything) Boro related down under!! Having just seen the TV games it looks like December before we get Boro live again down here.(BTW, I accept a merc will be too expensive to send, so if you do have one of those let dormo have it.)
And if I'm number 101 then my prize can mark the next century haha.
Billy in Berks - we'll have a pint at the next home game in in UK for - you'll have to guess what I look like!! cheers mate.
Come on Boro
**AV writes: Away lads, play to the whistle.
Many good comments above, but surely you must agree that over the time that Southgate has been manager this club has gone from bad to worse from a playing point of view, even when we had better players.
Please dont blame Gibson and Lamb for that (I am not defending them for the way the club has gone) what I am saying is the Southgate himself has no tactical sense, no man management, no motivation. I dont know even if he got his coaching badges yet.
For me he is definitly the worst manager we have ever had in my 60 years of supporting the Boro. I was a season ticket holder even if I worked away. I stopped being a season ticket holder two season ago after so many poor games. I watched the games on television and even other expats could not believe how bad the Boro were. I was pointing out tactical weakness but Southgate must be either blind or daft because they were so evident.
I have had my opinion since you were put in charge and I have kept it. I think he is a useless manager Mr Southgate and I certainly will never pay another penny to watch the rubbish you serve up.
Please read previous comments - we have only played two decent teams this season and we have never even looked like scoring a goal against either of them and both at home.
Now I will direct to Mr Gibson: after you personally watching the Boro games how you could persist with this man in charge and watching rubbish week after week you did not sack him? Only you know the answer to this.
Mr Lamb - your negotiation sense is very poor to say the least. I am a Contracts Administrator in the oil and gas industry and if I made decisions as bad has yours I would have been sacked a long time ago.
David, 5.30pm
I agree, I too was thinking of going on Saturday to watch but decided not to at the last minute. The points you raised are valid. For most fans relegation was inevitable - for the club it was a shock.
Even if we get promoted, I cannot see the club sustaining PL football. Certainly not with the management team we have.
Chris D 22/9 4.27
Thanks for your kind assessment of My Dad’s managerial skills. I will tell the Admiral forthwith that he has another supporter.
Mr Average, 22/9 10.52
Cracking post couldn’t agree more, wish I had said it my self. As much as we all want to see a wining team, I remember when it fun too.
Mr Average
Some of us just think the product at times is not fit for human consumption.
If we paid, as I did, over £60 for the pleasure of a meal then found that the chef was missing and the waiter had taken over and the food was poor I wouldnt be over pleased. (No O'Neill but no back up in the squad).
The wine waiter couldnt tell a Bordeaux from a Budweiser, half the staff were trainees and didnt know what they were doing.
The local media's restaurant critic and had given less than complementary reviews so was told with us or against us and was barred. (Slaven and Lamb)
The restaurant was downgraded following poor reports by local food inspectors but the management didnt see it coming.
There was no formal complants route and the restaurant just went its own merry way.
In those circumstances many people would have stopped visiting the said restaurant until there were changes.
That is what we have had at the Boro. The match on Saturday came after the brave new start, after refurbishment of the establishment. That is why people are not going to the games.
Many of us shake our heads and keep going but dont expect us to be pleased. We didnt invent the words, Typical Boro, and find some entity to apply them to. The words were used to describe what happens. Just like when we say it is raining that doesnt cause the rain to come out of the sky.
People react differently. The morons who abuse all and sundry are not the people who reason on here that they are fed up with the club. Some decide they are fed up paying money for rubbish and vote with their feet and wallets. Some voice their complaints in mediums like this, others just walk away and will never come back.
Some like to watch a decent match and Saturday doesnt count as one of those. The quality on display from Our team would have resulted in a refund or free meal at our restaurant.
Some are like me and try not to get angry but look at things that can be done to improve things. Doesnt mean I can refrain from venting spleen at times.
Takes all sorts.
johno21 -
You may well be right, although I'm not sure Jack Charlton's record of transfers in was that impressive, he brought in Bobby Murdoch which was a stroke of genius for a season or two and Terry Cooper after that no one of note as far as i can remember.
He was blessed with inheriting a team including a few class players. But he certainly appeared while at Boro and as manager of the Republic had th ability to get the best out of players.
Its difficult to compare now with then of course but to date Southgate hasn't brought in any barnstorming transfers and that may well be his downfall. He also doesn't appear to be a man who can inspire like some can but that is a rare talent and hard to spot when looking for a manager.
My view on Southgate is quite straight forward, as a completely inexperienced manager he should never have been appointed in the first place. It was a big mistake on the Chairman's part, but he (Southgate) has my support because I think he is driven, motivated, honest, intelligent and therefore has potential to succeed.
I feared the worst for this season and I admit that I am suprised that Boro have got 16pts from the opening 8 games.
OK we got stuffed on Saturday but hopefully after we beat Coventry 4 - 1 that will be forgotten.
C'mon Boro!
Nigel, I agree with what you say i would also add that he does have Boro at heart and that is very important as long as his devotion to this club is not affecting his judgement.
Remember old England,Scotland internationals the Scots adrenalin was pumping for a week before kick off by kick off time they were drained.Headless chicken stuff which we all watched on Saturday.
I see its now Coopers turn to learn lessons this season as Gareth dare not say it.
Hope for big turn around against City but wont be easy on their ground.
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