Transfer Window Watch: It's Warming Up

My uncle’s brother’s son works at passport control at Teesside airport. He has just seen Mark De Man arrive. Exclusive interview in tonight’s Gazette eh AV?

Losing Big Bob is unfortunate especially after the way we have started the season, but not unexpected. It is a surprise that so many of the players were here at the start of the season.

My post relegation reshuffle had us brining in over £30m at the expense of the departing Downing, O’Neil, Huth, Poggy, Alves and Tuncay. So half way there.

I don’t think departure of Huth is the massive blow others think. We have plenty of cover, he’s injury prone and above all we need the MONEY.

Danny Webber doesn’t excite me but neither did Coyne and Yeats, shows what I know. A turbulent few days ahead I fear, making a third away win in the league unlikely.

Spot on AV reported on Sky that Robert Huth is having a medical at Stoke on an agreed fee of £6m and they are also interested in our Turkish superstar for the same fee. Why are we selling so cheap? We are rapidly becoming a small club with a very expensive Hotel and Golf course as a millstone.

**AV writes: It's nothing to do with the hotel. Boro are selling because they were relegated and that means income has been halved but outgoings - the wage bill, money for previous signings, interest on the overdraft - stayed the same. Something had to give or they would be running a £20m a year deficit and adding to the balck hole when they already had debts somewhere in the region of £60m.

Disgusted. This club has been turned from UEFA cup finalists to mid table championship in three seasons and a few weeks.

The sale of Huth and possibly Tuncay to a side like Stoke is a disgrace. And yes before people start saying about the fact they are Premiership and we have to cut our cloth accordingly then it makes it all the more disgraceful that we were relegated in the first place.

It also makes it quite clear that the club have no intention of making a promotion push this season. Wheater looked consistently shaky at the back last season alongside a variety of centre backs. To lose the one centre back he has struck up a partnership with is idiotic. You may find instead of losing one centre back you will in fact lose two, because everytime Riggott and Wheater played together there was no communication and they consistently made mistake after mistake.

It also makes you wonder if we are so strapped for cash that Gibson could not afford to sack Southgate and hence we are stuck with this lame duck yes man who doesn't have the ability to stand up and fight his corner.

Before people say how much Gibson has done for this club I say he has ran it as a business. He has invested lots of his own money but he has taken it back and more. This club has been in the premiership for years collecting millions in tv revenue.

In the last three years we have made profits on our transfer dealings so why when other clubs like Bolton and Blackburn and indeed Stoke can survive why do we sell all our best assets? Because Gibson wants his money back with interest.

The man isn't the saviour of Middlesbrough Football Club, he is a businessman who wants to make money at every venture even at the expense of Middlesbrough Football club.

A very fed up, annoyed, miserable Boro fan who can't believe what is happening to his club (and it is my club as it is all the supporters) not the whim of a chairman and chief exec.

**AV writes: Gibson hasn't taken a penny out of the club since the day he walked through the door and the accounts clearly show that.

You suggest that the club has been making money for years but it hasn't. The TV money has barely covered the wage bill in every one of the last 15 years and the shortfall in the cost of running the club - plus the bulk of transfer cash - has come from another source... either directly out of Steve Gibson's pocket or from the banks with him and his company acting as guarantor.

I can understand the frustrations of supporters who see the glory days unravelling in front of their eyes but to point the finger at the bloke who was picking up the tab every inch of the way on the dream ride seems a bit churlish.

Selling Huth is good business in my opinion.I've never really rated him. He's an excellent Championship defender, but not quite good enough for an established Premiership club. The fact that he's joining Stoke seems to confirm this.

He's always looked out of his depth when playing for Germany. Add to that his injury problems and high wages. We did well to get our money back on him.

That twitter site of yours is brilliant. I've just spent an hour on that Daily Mirror site reliving England's world cup victory! Keep up the good work.

I've discovered a couple of east european forwards for the squad...

Hugh Nokkemova and Al Nokkemin.

They compliment each other as a pair. One's deadly in the box and the other likes to get wide on both flanks and whip in crosses.

**AV writes: Yes, the Mirror site is going to be fantastic. The search is quite limited at the minute but they are adding new pages and pictures every day and the fact you can download the pages as pdfs and print them out is brilliant.

Danny Webber? - A 'striker' who is not fit and he can't score - perfect.......
Balde? - Noooooooo.

I hope Smogonthetyne is right and I'm wrong, but I see loosing Huth as a big blow.
From a financial point of view £6m each for Huth and Tuncay seems like good business, I thought they would both go for less (I'm assuming the reports of the fees are accurate, which is a big assumption of course)

I'm not sure what the fact that only Stoke are interested in Tuncay and Huth says about how they are perceived by other clubs. I suspect Huth is perceived as a big risk because of his injury record and Tuncay is a 'luxury' player. If both do go to Stoke then they are swapping a potentially succesful championship season for a premiership relegation struggle (again), interesting.

Selling Taylor for £2million strikes me as decent business.

Out of interest, do we currently have another fit centre back other than Wheater and Huth? And finally, Gareth please sign someone 'exciting' its important, this is football, the fans want something to stir the passion!!

**AV writes: Hines, Williams and Grounds can all play at centre-back.

Taking on board what you just said. I will retract my rant about Steve Gibson from a financial point of view. But what I will say is that in coming out on the radio asking for "blind faith" from the supporters when he clearly knew the financial state of the club and that our prized assets were all to be sold off to be replaced by free transfers whilst not entirely being a lie is certainly concealing of the truth.

I think that is why I feel disillusioned, the whole radio show was put on to try and encourage fans to purchase season tickets and with the promise that we would try all we could to get back to the premiership.

I don't see that being possible with the likely sales and the weak squad we have in some key positions, not least central midfield. So in that sense the club is being ran as a business only it's a strange business in that it only operates for the fans. So if the fans are taken for a ride and feel disillusioned then I would suggest the business isn't being ran very well.

**AV writes: I think the harsh reality of the finances have really hit home since they have struggled to sell players they thought they would shift easily. The tone of some of the messages coming out of theclub has certainly got bleaker and more urgent since the chairman went on air to say we would carry the same wage bill. I think the situation now is far more pressing.

if Huth goes and our one signing is Danny Webber I do not think I will be spending any more of my hard earned cash on MFC.

In the past three season's Steve Gibson has led fans astray at ST buying time with quotes such as 'world class manager' 'big signings' 'big payers in the championship'
At best he has been stretching the truth over the past few seasons.

How does selling Huth benefit the club after such a promising start to the season?

C'Mon Boro!

Well I think replacing Tuncay and Alves with Webber and letting Huth go for less than £10m shows just what this club has become - a joke.

All that SG said in his interview has been spin. I feel sorry for the people who have season cards right now. Talk about kick in the teeth, I'm waiting for the Johnson to go for £2m to Sunderland.

This kind of reinforces my belief that Southgate is not his own man and is totally beholden to Gibson - I feel sorry for him as he's under pressure to get promotion without the means to achieve it.

Southgate said he'd rather not sell Huth and that he won't have any fit centre-backs for another month at least, plus he also made him his captain - what else could he have done to indicate that he wanted him to stay?

A short-sighted piece of business in my view as £2.5m saved in wages (that's if we don't end up still paying some of them) could have major consequences on our promotion prospects and on the beliefs of other players. Wheater was extremely confident about playing with Huth. And is this likely to persuade Jinky to sign a contract?

Let's see what replacements are lined up - we may even 'smash' this season's £750k transfer record - or is it just free's like little Danny 'one in five' Webber that we're chasing.

Chris beat me to it there.

I was just thinking about letting our best defender leave for £6M just before the transfer deadline. I'm pretty sure that (Young's sale for the same fee) was one of the biggest reasons for our relegation last year.

The fee may be satisfactory, the wage bill might be £2M lower this year, but the kitty overall will be £20M or more down if it costs the club promotion in the longer term. There is a gag there somewhere about "learning lessons" although I'm too damned annoyed with the club hierarchy at the moment to entertain such frivolity !

It is not just the Huth sale that has hit my mood hard. Tuncay for £5M? Surely someone must at the club must think it's April the 1st. Let us compare this to some of the other summer fees so far. Delph (£8M), Lescott (£24M), Alonso (£30M). Tevez has a strike rate & work ethic which is similar to Tuncay, yet he is supposedly worth £25M. What next, buy one get one free's ? Although for all we know, that could be exactly how the possible Tuncay/Huth double deal to Stoke is being setup.

Just to cap off this ridiculous transfer saga, it appears that the quality of player being targeted to replace these top class Internationals is nothing short of appalling. Danny Webber? Have a look at his stats, there is only one "striker" in all of English football with a worse strike rate & we paid Arsenal £".5M for him a couple of years ago !! Bobo Balde ? This is going to reduce me to tears soon.

What has happened to the big target man the Gazette has been assuring us is on the club's radar ?

The only chink of light seems to be the possible Taylor move over to Balckburn. If they think he is worth £2M, then I may be wrong in my assumption that the Boro have the worst scouting & negotiating team in the country. I'm off work for a couple of weeks, & will gladly give up an afternoon to personally drop him off at Ewood for that money. Of course, with him being a (supposedly) promising England U21 International, it would be crazy for Mr Lamb to omit a sell-on fee clause in any deal wouldn't it ? No holding of breath here, I'm afraid.

I have always thought of myself as one of the more moderate contributors to this site. I stated very early this summer, that I would not judge the club's chances until the transfer window was shut & all business was concluded. I did not bargain on the club's ability to test my patience to quite this degree though.

I thoroughly hope the club have a couple of surprises in store for the fans, when they attempt to replace four (?) players they have lined up to depart, not including Downing & Turnbull. If not, they may be about to feel the full force of a very angry Boro faithful, myself included. And, as a famous man once said, you won't like me when I'm angry Messrs Lamb, Gibson & Southgate !!

Gibbo on Radio Tees: "Back me with blind face & i'll make sure we have THE best squad in the Championship, we can do this as the finaces at the club are good!".....

GS: "The key is to have a stronger squad @ the end of the transfer window!".....

AV: Do you think either of these statements will be true by the end of the transfer window

C'Mon Boro!

I thought Charlie Amer left the club years ago. Disgusted! Gibson out, before you kill this once proud club. From Eindhoven to Glanford Park in three short years! Hang your head in shame!

**AV writes: Yes, damn you Gibson for funding the ride in the first place! Without that cash crazed ambition we wouldn't be in this mess.

Latest on sky sports, Tuncay fee agreed and he has travelled to Stoke to dicuss terms and have a medical

Yes AV (Your response to Chris at 11:54am), BUT - If Boro have given permission to Stoke to talk with Huth after they made an offer of £XM, why would Everton offer to pay Boro any more when they can get him for the threshold amount?

Everton would need to have matched Stoke's offer if Huth was to be allowed to go there. Huth personally, is likely to be the only beneficiary in any subsequent negotiations, is he not?

Apart from the details of the transactions, I'm not impressed with the release of Huth, from a football-achievement potential perspective.

I view Huth's departure as I did Luke Young's last season. I don't believe Steve Gibson's resources and ambitious rhetoric means anything real in a practical sense any more - other than he's trying to sell dummies to the public and hope that they don't notice - or don't care enough about being misled - to take any action.

I believe the big throws have been taken in recent previous seasons and the gamble of Premier League status retention has been lost. This was I believe a strategic error which has perhaps accelerated the inevitable repositioning because of the cost of being able to sustain a presence in the Premier League.

However, I think we're going to find that it would have been easier and cheaper to have stayed there for at least another season or two, than to have come down and somehow expect to get back up, and stay up, without spending money we clearly don't have.

I can understand the reality of Boro’s inability to compete in the Premier League. That’s what I’m personally disappointed about (note – “disappointed”). Disaffection has a different cause.

What has disaffected me, is the club’s actions increasingly being at variance with the publicly declared positioning. Gibson's words on BBC Radio Tees in May, are shaping up more and more like the reactive political spin that I suspected they were from the outset.

While having put his ambition stake in the ground, he then takes actions (or doesn’t) which give no reassurance that he actually means what he stated.

While I’m pleased that Boro have had good results so far in the Championship, even you pointed, in your last blog, to the residual frailties of our set-up and I don’t believe that this level of performance is likely to be sustained when further enforced absences kick in and we come up against more competent opposition.

And why don’t I consider that to be so? Well, typically because of the sale of Robert Huth and Tuncay Sanli, who each have contributed enormously to the results so far. They will only be replaced (if they are replaced at all) by inferior players.

For me, Boro’s executive has until about match # 12 to demonstrate that its judgment about being in contention for promotion is sound. But even then, witnessing the play so far against genuinely mediocre opposition, doesn’t convince me that we can favourably differentiate ourselves from half a dozen other teams in this league, let alone go on to compete with those sides we failed to compete with last season.

**AV writes: As I said before, I think the tone has changed dramatically since May. I think back then the planned restructuring looked easy on paper and Gibson and Lamb were confident they could rejig things effectively but it has not gone at all smoothly... Alves is till here for instance and as he clearly is not considered part of the squad he is a sullen £50k a week drain on resources.

As to the Huth/Everton situation... if they wanted to talk to him they would still have to agree a fee with Boro first, irrespectively of what other clubs do. Even if Boro have already agreed a fee with Stoke they are at liberty to raise the bar for another club. It happens all the time. Especially to cash rich clubs.

Tuncay was always going to leave and frankly it doesn't matter to us whether that is to Stoke or Sao Paolo.

The problem with Huth is that our two experienced centre backs Riggott or Pogi are both injured leaving us in a position where either Hines comes in or Williams moves back. Either way in the short term it leaves us weaker.

I'll reserve my judgement until the end of the window. Assuming Alves goes as well I'd hope to see three players come in including the much needed target man.

Yeah - problem with continued 'nibbling', AV, is that it will be that much longer before MFC will get into even trying for replacements.

Mind you, with the quality of replacement being mentioned......

What does it say about the acumen of Gibbo & The Count if - as per your response to Richard - they couldn't see what was coming in May or, alternatively, they had a plan and couldn't make it work or, worse but what many will suspect, they knew all along but just peddled Boro fans a cynical line.

Selling Huth (and maybe others like Gary O'Neil) out from under Gate continues the manager's role as stooge for the other two. But the players that Gate is allegedly targeting don't help his cause.

**AV writes: No one is being sold from under him. Yes, the club want to flog these players but equally THEY WANT TO LEAVE. Firm management and inspirational leadership won't keep them here. Relegation made that nailed on.

Fans may not be able to get their heads around that because they actively care for Boro and would probably play for the club for free. That clouds their judgement on the attractions of staying. But Tuncay and Huth just want to be in the Premier League, earning big money and getting the exposure that will keep their international prospects bubbling. It doesn't really matter which club.

AV

I think this move to sell the two players at this time is we are away on saturday and the 3 of them will hope no backlash from the FANS.

BUT IT WILL HAPPEN NEXT HOME GAME.

And Webber will get a lot of stick .

With Downing gone for presumably a price which met Boro's expectations, Mido gone, again presumably Boro assumed he wasn't worth much and with Alves going again for a small amount presumably.

We are now in a situation where Tuncay and Huth are going for a combined £11-12m, which seems like the sort of figures we would expect. In addition Taylor possibly going for £2m then shortly Boro's transfer income is £25m plus for the Summer and the big earners, Tuncay, Mido, Downing, Huth and probably Alves have gone.

Surely the financial criteria which Steve Gibson assumed would be met in order to fund the Championships 'best squad' have been met?

The transfers were always going to go down to the wire they always do, so surely GS will be in a position today or tomorrow to buy three or four top quality Championship players? If this doesn't happen then I believe we have the right of an explanation from the Chairman as to what has changed since May.

We may have worried about the impact on the club and its performance that keeping GS in charge would have given that a large proportion of the support wanted him out, but for me a much bigger threat is the chairman losing support because a significant part of the support may perceive his comments in May as being disingeneous if the sales of the stars go ahead without any top draw Championship players coming in.

I hope I'm premature in voicing these fears, but I feel instinctively that we are in dangerous territory here.

**AV writes: I don't think there is any question we are in dangerous territory... and we will be in more so if we don't go back up this year.

Maybe Alves should become the new Billy Ashcroft and slot into central defence alongside Wheater. Come on Gareth it's what failed strikers are designed for, just give it a go - what's the worst that could happen?

A word beginning with 'F' is coming out of my mouth several times at the sound of this Stoke deal Vic, and I'm not going to state it here.

I can see the future. A future where Stoke establish themselves as a consistent Premiership force while we linger in the lower leagues indefinitely.

I'm going to take back everything good I said about Southgate and state the following: Why didn't we bring in Martin O'Neill when we had the chance?

McClaren may have been limited, and he may never had had his heart in the job, but (a) he always brought in consistently good players and (b) WE WERE NEVER IN DANGER OF GOING DOWN UNDER HIM. Not to mention that we were almost guaranteed one or two good results against Man U each season. (Southgate's Boro thrashing United 4-1? Or beating Chelsea 3-0? You're having a laugh.)

Sorry. Ranting here. It's just that we need to BUILD a squad, not DISMANTLE it... and what is Southgate doing?

**AV writes: F... f... f... firesale?

Coyne
McMahon Wheater Hines Grounds
Yeates Arca Williams Johnson
Lita Emnes

Look at the expected line-up on Saturday compared to the one we were fielding in the 2006-7 season:

Schwarzer
Xavier Woodgate Huth Pogatetz
Mendieta Boeteng Rochenback Downing
Viduka Yakubu

This was a team of experienced and proven internationals. To this mix add all of our up and coming youngsters.

This was just three years ago and although being far from the complete team, a million miles away from where we find ourselves today. The squad has slowly deteriorated in an almost unnoticed manner. An experienced pro has been let go without being replaced, unproven players have been signed and not fulfilled potential and bam... we have turned into an average Championship team.

The road back from here is a long one and although Southgate might be the man to lead us back, he must take a large proportion of the blame for making it happen

Watching your infuriated fans react to the clubs best players being sold and wondering how many more of the better players will leave Newcastle before the end of the transfer windows.

Not very good days ahead for both clubs I fear.

This just gets worse. I appreciate there is a premium for English players but Fabian Delph to Villa for £8M and Tuncay at around £5M doesn't add up. And Huth...

It's a bleak day for the Boro and I feel that rather than anti Southgate sentiment increasing, the tide is now starting to turn against Steve Gibson.

Gibson has been brilliant for the Boro, full stop, but he needs to immediately and publicly explain today's sales. It is his club but the fans deserve an explanation otherwise a feeling of exploitation, desperation and hopelessness will fester into something substantial.

For the first time in 23 years Gibson is on thin ice. If the club is in dire financial straits then please tell us so we can at least understand and any blame or resentment can be averted.

This club is atrocious at communicating with the fans and it must stop now.

An earlier poster made an allusion to Charlie Amer. I think most of us would trust Steve Gibson with the Boro to the grave, I would, but thoughts of being in the dark and not knowing what's happening are starting to come out when they never have before.

Is Gibson so entwined financially with the club and his businesses that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul? This was the case when the Boro were the beneficiaries presumably, but we need to know.

Come on Steve, you have been possibly the best thing ever for this club but you've had a dip of late. Or so it seems, no one is telling us so we just don't know.

Get it in the open and then we can all pull together again. Don't and it may just be too late.

I sincerely hope that the gamble Gate, Gibbo and Lamb combination has taken selling Huth comes off, because there are serious repercusions for our club with another season looming in the Championship if they have got it wrong.

Yes, AV I know we need the cash, but the economics of selling him, versus messing up a good start to the campaign, and subsequent failure could be an even worse financial situation for the club come next summer.

Selling to Stoke shows just where we now sit in the heirarchy of football. It is irrelevant who we sell to of course, but the players we are allegedly looking to bring in is pretty dire. No more boasts from inside the club about having the best squad inside the Championship, we simply are shedding quality and replacing it with mediocre that will eventually cripple our promotion campaign. Asset stripping indeed.

Yes, I too understand the harsh financial reality AV, I was there in 1986 too, but it is pretty painful to watch. We do have other good centre backs (at least for this division) but I wonder how Wheater feels right now? I hope we can respond on Saturday at Bristol and put this behind us, but don't hold your breath. Confidence is a fragile thing.

PLEASE Boro, surprise us in a positive way at least once before the transfer window is closed and boarded up until January.

I see Gareth is doing his sales pitch again..."I don't think David Wheater is going anywhere"....Come and get him....everything must go!!!! Knowing quite well Aston Villa are still in the hunt for a central defender.Oh but take heart we are thinking of bidding for Hulse....didn't he just have an operation?

Although I'm gutted to lose Huth and Tuncay, I don't think we could expect higher fees. We are in the sticky stuff and the cicling vultures know it and we can't hold anyone to ransom

However, what annoys me most is Garth stating tonight that "we always knew we might lose one of centre-backs". If this was the case why on earth did he decide to appoint the most obvious of these candidates as the team Captain. He seems to have no regard for the importance of this role given his previous comments last season.

After relegation under Lawrence, we had a great start, then sold Kerny, and we fell to pieces. Lets hope history does not repeat itself

McMahon for Captain on Saturday, on condition he doesn't leave in Jan

All I can say is that I am very very disappointed. So disappointed that I cannot adequately express my feelings. This truly has ruined my week.

While today's news was not welcome, I think there has been a bit of an over reaction by some of us. Everything will all look better when we win on Saturday.

Seems to me we are starting to get to the truth. We look at Newcastle and call it asset stripping and blame it on the cockney Boro are doing the same but we call it what?.....Oh yes balancing the books.

Boro lower middle team by 12 weeks time and Gareth you are Blameless, it is Gibson but then again you are a high earner, when do you go? Got that one. This is your fourth year of a four year contract......who's the sucker now?

AV.

Obviously Steve Gibson has been amazing for this club, and the things he has done won't be forgotten. But is it a crime to criticize him?

Everyone says that he is the best chairman in the business, but is it not blatantly obvious that he decides who is bought and who is sold. And the only reason he chose Gareth Southgate as manager is that so he could still call all the shots.

Can I just ask you, if we are in such a state financially, who got us in this mess? Is it me as a supporter for wanting success? If so,then every club in the country should be in trouble, because we all want success. It's just annoying that we should just pay our money and shut up.

**AV writes: We are in a mess because for a decade the club had a crazy, unsustainable transfer policy and we paid over the top fees and wages for the likes of Boksic, Pallister, Gazza, Maccarone, Viduka, Mendieta, Hasselbaink - and many more - and never got a penny back for any of them.

We spent heavily and had a fantastic time buying teams that got us to Wembley, Cardiff and Eindhoven on Gibbo's plastic and now it is time to pay the bills.

And so the habitual moaners finally have their excuse to let loose the torrent of bile that has been held back for weeks by good results. Go ahead lads, get the bile off your chests.

Last year Huth was being used to beat the club. He was an over paid crock who hadn't been scouted properly, didn't play enough games, who didn't produce when he was playing, who helped get us relegated and who we would be lucky to off load given his wages, lack of ability and injury record.

Now suddenly he is the new Messiah, a badge kissing Boro-through-and-through loyalist who is being forced out by evil asset strippers and the world is going to end now he has left us. Jeez. Stop whinging.

No one, aprt from the really dim, has been duped into buying a season ticket over this. We all knew in the close season exactly who the club were trying to sell and why - Downing, Alves, Tuncay, Mido, Huth. Why the shock horror gasp outrage that four out of the five are gone? If anything get angry there's one left. That's the bad news for the club.

Some of these perpetually angry idiots in the crowd who latch onto the least set-back and turn it into the apocalypse would have exploded with rage back in the 80s. I fear for their mental health if we don't go up.

They should check the small print on their Sky Sports new football glory hunting contract. It can't be right that a small club with declining crowds that has spent beyond its means and have been relegated have to sell players. Surely they have some moral and legal get out clause and they can switch allegiance to Man Utd. Please do.

How much plainer can it be? We have no money left. We have to sell these players to balance the books after years of excess paying aging mercenaries over the top we could never really afford. What else do you want the club to do?

Demanding Gibson spend money we havent got is infantile and irresponsible and sums up the selfish and short sighted attitude of "fans" who think they have a God given right to success. "We have a Knowledgeable crowd." No, we haven't.

Depressing isn't it?

We seem to pay inflated transfer fees and over-the-odds wages to get players to come to the club, and sell at under the odds (or give them away) to get them to leave. If our club were a shop, buying expensively and selling cheaply, we'd have gone out of business already.

We all recognised some time ago (and I remember AV blogging about it) that the club would have to change its economic model to survive. We couldn't go on spending more on transfer fees and wages than we had coming into the coffers. We couldn't spend like millionaires if we were really paupers.

However, of all the methods that could be employed to sort us out, getting relegated was the worst case scenario. Cutting income in half (in fact maybe it was worse than that) by going down was the OPPOSITE of what was needed to balance the books. Income had to be maintained. By far the best way of being able to make ends meet would have been to stay in the Premier League.

In that scenario, the cheapest solution in the short term would have been to get rid of the manager when there was sufficient time left last season to allow the new one to avoid relegation. It wouldn't have needed a Brian Clough or an Alex Ferguson - we would only have had to have won another game or so (and two wins would have left us well safe), beating Stoke say instead of losing there, or WBA, or Hull.

Equally, the best way of getting out of this situation is to do our best to go straight back up to the Premier League. If we don't do it this year, it will be much harder next year and probably virtually impossible after that. If we replace some of our better players with inferior ones we will rule promotion out of the equation.

I had to resist the temptation this evening to throw the radio through the window. Our favourite former bank manager was answering callers to BBC Tees angered by the prospective sale of Huth, now that he is at last fit enough to play regularly, (who "would want to leave to ensure he has a chance to play in the World Cup with Germany next summer")and Tuncay.

He suggests that whilst Poggi and Riggott look certain to remain on the injured list for a few months yet, Huth's place might be taken by Hines, Rhys Williams (a little small for a centre back, whatever his lower-team history though looking promising as a midfielder) or Grounds. Immeasurably weaker, whatever the short term option.....

If there was a Premier League table of coaching and club management, I suspect last season our league position overstated our proper form by one place. Stoke...Hull... they are now the giants against whom it seems we can no longer compete. I don't suppose anyone will accept responsibility. If it wasn't mangement or the players maybe it was the fault entirely of the laundry ladies or the Press?

Thats the whole point AV. Did SG go for unsustainable success ( like Ridsdale at Leeds)? I don't know the answer to that, but if so is that not just naive?

Sorry Bob

Whilst you have written some good comments above. I do not agree entirely with them. I think we are a downward spiral which is going out of control.

We have sold nearly a full team now over the last year players who could have kept us in the Premiership, because they have not been replaced. The two worst buys have been made by Southgate MIDO and Alves.

I was the one who wrote what a load of rubbish Alves was even before we signed him. Scoring goals in the equivilent of out third division in Holland A COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY. No other club even wanted him, they have seen how he has played at the BORO and now no one wants him again.

Gibson saved us and gave us good memories but that is all they are now, MEMORIES. And as for rebuilding, they could have done that in the premiership. This has been a cold and calculated move by the board and the manager to get rid of the better players and the high earners and now look were we are a wafer thin squad and a team of mediocre players with a less than adequate manager.

I bet there wont be many more crowds of over 20, 000 before long. Then what will they do?? SELL THE CLUB?

The normally reliable Daily Mail has a story that Everton had a £6m bid for Wheater turned down by Boro - surely if he is to go (and i hope he doesn't) then he would be in the £16m plus bracket. He is as good as Lescott who went for £22m.

Does the teams Barnsley, Bradford, Charlton, Leeds, Forest, Norwich and Ipswich mirror what is going to happen to Boro? Once decent top flight teams now scrapping away in the lower leagues....sad days ahead for the Boro I fear.

AV. You hit me with a big stick last season when I suggested that the hierarchy favoured relegation to get out of the mire financially. I accepted the beating like a gentleman, however, what is happening at the club at the moment combined with the recession; I think my comments have been slightly justified.

I just hope that the events of yesterday, don't have the overreaching affect of the fans voting with their feet. The current cuts could just turn around and bite Mssr's Lamb and Gibson on the snout.

The club need the fans to stick with them at a time like this, so they must do everything in their power to ensure that the early season form dosen't frizzle out like their finances seem to have.

Come on Boro...

**AV writes: Again, seriously, how does a situation that slashes your income by more than half help you get out of the mire? There is no question that the club have pressing financial issues but relegation has sharpened them, not eased them.

AV - Your comments are both acceptable and debatable, ever decreasing circles I fear....

So let me get this straight. In search of goals and height Boro are offloading a Brazilian who is over six feet with a goal ratio of 1 in 4 for a lad who is 5, 9 and prolific to the tune of 1 in 5.

I am 5,9 and noone has ever asked me to be a target man. The only person who values my height is my girlfriend who can't reach things in the house.

We really do live in a "throw away society". My Mam would have knacked me for wasting an Afonso Alves. She would have said something along the lines of: "You begged to get him, paid a fortune and hardly played him". She would probably suggest taking him out of his box, applying a bit of soft soap and maybe some light weight training.

It may be too late for GS to get him in a headlock, run his knuckles over his head and tell him that he still loves him but this must have been possible at some point. He has a better goal ratio in the Prem than Webber has in the Championship.

People might now refer me to the his draining wages. However, ponder this: we are about to sell him for £3 million. If he stayed he WOULD definitely get a minimum of 18-19 goals in this league - come on, some of the teams we have played have been poor, he would. Football is ephemeral by nature and a free scoring Alves would add a couple of million to his value in no time - this would pay for his wages.

All going well we would be heading back to the Premiership with a bubbling striker with his tail up or at worse a Championship talisman that would be worth a few quid to aspiring teams. People might claim he does not have the physique - Emnes is hardly Bronson is he? We've given up to easy on this fella I'm sure and this is emphasised by the replacement strategy.

I was very sad to see Huth go - yesterday. But we have plenty of cover there. Poggy, Riggott, Hines and a certain Mr Williams to name a few. To loose Huth is minor than loosing Woodgate (who? The Marton born centre back who is out injured at Spurs now).

I will miss Tunny, though. A long time. Even though we all knew he was going to go. But I dreamed that nobody wouldn't want him....

I agree with Werdermouth and AV that the salaries need to paid as well as past spending. Lita is OK, we still have Emnes etc. GS has told he will buy a replacemnet for Tunny and we can still end up having Alves, too.

Our team is top of the C'hip and we will get one new striker and - hopefully - one more midfielder. Especially if Shawky leaves (where he is - except in Egypt next week for an international).

Let's cool down - we still have Wheater, Johnson, Williams, Emnes, Digards, McMahon, Grounds, Yeates etc. We lead the division and are live. Not all football team will survive the recession as we will. Even the big four are in trouble already or soon - they are living on borrowed money.

Up the Boro!

There is a lot of talk today about wages. Many posters have bemoaned the fact that some of our soon to be/recently departed star players, are/were still draining the clubs resources to the tune of 50K (Huth) or 65K (Tuncay) per week.

It has to be acknowledged that these "65K per week" contracts are made up of various incentives. To receive the top whack, a player would need a goal scoring bonus, win bonus & a payment based on the team's league position. Taking all that into account, I would guess it has been a long while since Tuncay saw 65 grand deposited into his bank account in one payment. Indeed, those regular last minute opposition equalisers may have cost the club it's PL place in the long term, but they saved the count a packet in win bonuses !

A lot of fuss was made of the fact that the people who drew up the contracts at Newcastle, arrogantly neglected to include any relegation clauses. It has been written that the Boro hierarchy did not make the same expensive error.

If that is the case, it could be another reason why Huth, Tuncay, Downing etc have decided to head for the lifeboat. After all, their other halves have no doubt been reduced to shopping at Lidl since our relegation ! No doubt 10% of their fee as a signing-on bonus will have offered further incentive.

Do you know if I am right in my belief that relegation clauses were inserted into the contracts of the majority of our playing staff AV ?

It looks like the next few days will prove the biggest test of the managers prowess so far. Having thoroughly deflated the fans with these sales, it is now up to him to raise the spirits again, with a couple of shrewd acquisitions to replace those players the club has allowed to leave.

On a personal note, my anger is not because of the departures as such, with Tuncay always guaranteed to leave & Huth probable. It is with the apparent impotence in replacing these quality players. It is blatantly obvious that a big centre forward & a decent quality midfielder are desperately needed to maintain any promotion push, at a minimum. Webber & Balde are neither of these things. If the manager believes that yet another lightweight, pacy forward like Webber is what is required, then he is proving his (many) detractors to be correct.

The mood around the Riverside CAN be lifted, but the triumvirate need to step up to the mark quickly & decisively. Two or three reasonably inspiring signings (we're not asking for Ribery or Aguero!) would be enough to get the fans back onside.

If this does not happen, I do not believe the fans will be flocking to the Riverside & paying out good money to watch a side they have little faith in. Surely the hierarchy at the club must be aware that doing this would increase their revenue stream in terms of increased season card/matchday ticket sales ?

AV - if you look carefully at the Zapruder film, Steve Gibson can be seen on the Grassy Knoll. I think Gibbo killed Kennedy too.

There is an element on this blog that are so ungrateful it beggers belief.

"They're only memories"? - yeah, just memeories of some of the best days in Boro history. Why bother aiming for cup finals or the Premier league in the future as all it will leave us with are memories...

Steve Gibson is not beyond criticsim, nobody should be, but the crass jibes are hard to digest.

AV,

Are you sure there is no legs in this story about Earnshaw?

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Forest Accept Bid For Earnshaw

Nottingham Forest striker Robert Earnshaw looks set to exit the City Ground, as the club accept an offer believed to be from Middlesbrough for £4.5m.

Earnshaw signed for the Reds' from Derby last season in a £2.65m deal. He finished the season as the clubs top scorer with 17 goals, despite an injury plagued campaign.

The information we have, is that he isn't entirely happy with the move, as he is settled in Nottingham. Middlesbrough are after a swift return to the Premiership and are keen to get their hands on the best striker in the Championship. Forest though, will spend the money on a replacement, despite having 5 other strikers to pick from.

Boro are flush with cash at the moment, following the £5m sale of Huth to Stoke and will be even better off when the sale of Tuncay for a similar fee to the Potters is completed.

-----------------------

Fingers crossed someone has put 2 and 2 together and done a Keith Lamb to get 1.
Could be Beford or Nugent

**AV writes: We asked the Forest lads about Earnshaw on Tuesday because it had been in the Sunday Sun. They had been at the presser where the question had been raised and said Billy Davies said publicly there had been an inquiry from one of the relegated Premier League clubs. When pressed later by the locals in a separate huddle he told them it was from Newcastle.

Southgate has also been asked about it and dismissed it completely as not being the kind of player they were looking at.

If GS is given money to spend who is confident that he will buy anyone decent?

Players bought during GSs tenure include

GON 5m
Mido 6m
Digard 4m
Ali 2m
Emnes 3.2m
Alves 12.7m
Huth 6m
Shawky .65m
Tuncay no fee
Arca 1.75m

Total 41.2m

If GS has not been buying the players as if often mooted, then Lamb should take the blame. Who on the above list have really earned they wages whikst playing for MFC? If it is GS who has bought the players then that is possibly the reason why SG is unwilling to give him much money to spend?

C'Mon Boro!

Tees Exile:

If we don't have a knowledgeable crowd it's because you and the other 'ostriches in their rose coloured spectacles' are dragging down the IQ average.

The fans are last people to blame -we are well supported club with patient fans (Southgate 3 years !). Nearly 23,000 fans for a Friday night game after the season we have just had is marvelous. If football was real market driven economy there would have been 500 present (i.e. those with nothing to live for)

What does it take to convince you we are in very serious trouble ?

Never mind blathering on about 'whingeing fans'' inferring that they are responsible for the appalling decisions over the last 3 years just give me 3 'reasons to be cheerful'

The immature posturing of Southgate & Gibson is embarrasing. Southgate insists he "wont walk away from the problem...." Gibson insists "he'll stick by his decision ...." Both are examples of weak and selfish behaviour.

Making out that the fans are culpable is feeble. Middlesbrough fans are too decent and too soft.

Looking on the bright side at least we don't have to find out that Lawro has tipped us to get beat on the BBC website

Southgate said: "We know that Robert was a big, big player for us, but it's a temporary thing as far as I am concerned. In any case we lost Luke Young three days before last season started, played David Wheater at right-back and beat Spurs. We have a lot of character in the dressing room."

I hang my head in my hands sometimes when i hear that our manager has dropped yet another clanger, said another faux pas or just completely lost the plot. Tottenham was one game, one out of 38 in a season which was disastrous and ended up with us being relegated.

Ultimately Gareth you have to ask yourself did the sale of Luke Young coupled with the purchase of Justin Hoyte as his replacement aid or hinder our squad?

Judging by the fact we were relegated the answer seems to me to be startlingly obvious. Even if we beat Bristol City which i hope we do, our squad is far, far weaker than it was only 3 days ago. That is plain for all to see, and will, if not addressed make results start to falter.

This is worrying because i wonder if the quality players such as the David Wheaters or Adam Johnsons of this world will be happy to watch their team sell off its best players while they are asked to play alongside players, with all due respect, who are not in the same league.

First things first. This wasn't Gareth's decision, and there is no question that if he could have held on to Huth he would have done. He is simply balancing the books as per instructions from Gibson/Lamb, and I suspect the fact that Huth has been sold suggests a deal to sell Alves will not happen.

Fees not great for either player, but it remains to be seen how many games Huth will play in PL this year given his injury record, and if Tuncay was really that good, where was he when we were so desperately struggling for goals vs. West Brom, Wigan, Blackburn etc. at the Riverside last year.

Back to Alves. If he doesn't leave, lets get behind him 100%. He could be sensational at this level.

Gutted that Huth has gone. I just hope that this ain't the start of a very depressing few days. I loved Tuncays attitude ( most of the time), but come on, he was nothing special at all. I noticed no big, or even slightly big clubs came in for him.

Is history repeating itself ?The talk above is about Steve Gibson and his hotel and golf course. Who remembers Charlie Amer and the club he next to Ayresome Park? That was the start of the boro downfall.

We have been spending lots of money 'the best training ground " in thecountry (and where most of our players get injured. I am beginning to agree with many of the writers above Gibson he is now treating the club as a business nothing more nothing less. THANK YOU FOR MEMORIES.

One thing is for certain. He wont be getting anymore of my money. If I did at work what Southgate and Lamb did in their jobs I would have been sacked a long time ago. Obviously there is more than meets the eye behind the scenes at the boro. Lamb has done so many bad deals it is unbelievable.

I agree with Andy, I think Alves will come good but we need to play him and we need to get behind him.

He's been one of the most prolific goal scorers around Europe so we need to find a way of repeating this. We've paid a lot of money for him so we need to start getting some value back. This league is the kind of levels he's played in and done well in. He'll get more space and the quality of defenders and goalkeepers are not the same as in the PL.

To be honest he didn't achieve anything like we expected from him last year, but we played poorly and created few chances, he had some bad luck, his confidence suffered, he scored then was dropped by poor management and team selection did not help. Take a look back, how many times did a keeper come up with a great save or he hit the woodwork. Yes missed a few but at least he was on the end of them. He should have been taking the penalties when Stewie missed two in a row.

Give the guy a break, we've had an awful lot worse strikers here than Alves. Billy Ashcroft, David Mills - both mentioned here earlier spring to mind. I saw them both and they were both hopeless.

In Millies case he had a team that carried him along with Hickton and Foggon to play off, and a terrific midfield that included Armstrong, Souness. Yes he scored goals but he should have been scoring 30-40 a year with the chances he had and I've never seen a player trip over the ball more than he ever did. He didn't have a first, second or third good touch but he was fast enough to get in positions enough of the time to make it count. How good he really was was shown up when he was sold to West Brom than disappeared into obscurity.

Ashcroft was big, slow and the only one threatened was the local barber and if he hadn't been related to John Neal he wouldn't have been signed, Charlie Amer must have choked on his cigar having to write a cheque out for 135K or whatever it was at the time, then we found just how bad Ashcroft was and how soft he was for his size, couldn't punch his way out of the preverbial paper bag.

So let's get behind the team, let's get behind Alves, Bloody hell, how many of us wish we had a Brazilian centre forward available in the past who had a scoring record like this ? He needs the ball in front of him and someone to play off.

It's not the players that are the problem at this club it's the manager and coaches not getting enough from the players they have had at their disposal backed by some poor decision making in the transfer market for the past three years and from what I can now make out poor commercial negotiations on salary packages.

In any normal business the person or persons responsible for this would be long gone in this business it means the manager and the CEO, not the physio or the assistant manager.

Well, boys and girls, this is where it gets interesting. A potentially tricky away game at Bristol which might be a useful guide at to our prospects of promotion this season.

The really interesting part is whether now, having broken up the Wheater/Huth partnership at the back, our defence will still look strong. We were beginning to look like misers at the back but if, for the sake of the sale price and the reduction of the wage bill, we fail to get the promotion that was beginning to look a possibility, the sale could cost us much more than we made from it.

Another thing is that we will be facing the same Nicky Maynard I was suggesting as a possible signing a couple of years ago when he was at Crewe. Of course he has had injuries since then but my guess is he will be prolific at this level (and maybe higher) at a tiny fraction of £12.7M.

Anyway AV, do club scouts etc get some sort of incentive payment, or bonus, if we buy a player they have scouted or recommended? Would they get a small percentage? For example if we bought a player for, say £6M would the scout get maybe 1% (actually that would be £60K, but even half a percent or a quarter would be quite handy, particularly for a £12.7M purchase!). It might be an incentive to buy expensive "stars" rather than hunting the lower leagues.....

I am pleased to hear Wheater has been appointed captain at Bristol. Although he may have a lot still to learn, there can be no doubt where his heart lies, which isn't something one can say about all the players on the payroll.

Fingers crossed for a 0-1 win in the South West.

"I've lost Robert Huth and Tuncay to Stoke City and more could be going, and it doesn't look as if I'll have money to spend."

So says the Gate after we witnessed another "Jagielka moment" today.

Who next for the door then? Wheater? Jinky?

All our class. Gone.

Grim, grim, grim...

Addendum:

If there's any justice, Alves should be made to play. Made to pay.

His finishing, or lack of it, got us into this mess - now let's use him to get us out of it!

Well, that 2-1 loss just goes to show that if you really want the wheels to come off, sell one of your greatest assets in the immovable object that is Huth.

Coupled with the Forest result in the week, it's clear that he will be badly missed by a team which could have carried an invincible tag well into the winter months.

If Aliadiere had tucked away his two gilt-edged chances in both games, things would be an awful lot different but it just underpins how woefully inept we are when it comes to our finishing which in all honesty has been a major downfall for quite some time now.

That said, AJ's a goalscoring machine right now and sadly, I can see him being snapped up by a Premier League club.

Quick someone, we need a paddle!

5 games in and only goal difference from an automatic promotion place!!!!

Sack the board! Get a new manager!