Second Best Boro Beaten
WITH Boro's Berlin Wall removed the clean sheet record and unbeaten start followed. They had the edge in the first half but failed to make the possession and chances count then were second best after the break and were deservedly beaten by a functional Bristol City.
For the second time in a week, when the opposition stepped up the tempo and intensity of the game, the defence struggled to cope. And for the second time in a week Boro had a golden chance to seal the game but Jeremie Aliadiere blew it big time.
What will worry fans more is the confession after the game that gaffer Gareth Southgate doesn't have a penny to spend - and may not even be able to afford free transfers.
Most people will have seen the quotes from the BBC. The cut-and-paste cyber-space machinery has churned out the same three sentences everywhere in which Southgate admitted that despite the £11m joint fee from Stoke for Huth and Tuncay he may not have the option to strengthen a threadbare side weak in every department. But he added a few more remarks even more indicative of the current parlous financial situation.
Boro - who have also sold Stewart Downing to Aston Villa for £10m in the summer - fielded a side that featured six academy graduates in the starting line up and with an average age of 22 years old. Of the staring line-up only Mark Yeates (£750,000), Julio Arca (£2m) and Marvin Emnes (£3.2m) had cost the club a penny in fees.
The squad is crying out for experience and numbers to beef up the squad - but those reinforcements are unlikely and he has not ruled out that more key players could leave.
"We came here looking for a result ahead of the transfer deadline which could see players leaving, I've lost Robert Huth and Tuncay to Stoke City and more could be going, and it doesn't look as if I'll have any money to spend." We know that. That is the snippet from the scrum that has been used everywhere.
But asked specifically if Boro would still push ahead with a move for free agent striker Danny Webber - a player who has already turned down Crystal Palace and Swansea on the assumption of a move to the Riverside - he said tersely: "At the moment we wouldnt be able to do anything on that."
He reiterated that Boro must first sell misfit 'goal machine' Afonso Alves who has not featured in the first team this season, who did not go on the pre-season trip to Scotland and who was heavily hinted by the boss to be not committed to the shirt or the cause. There has been some vague interest from Holland, Portugal and Qatar but no one wants to take him on his £40k a week wages - and unless Boro can lose that millstone from around their necks they can't even sign a striker who is on the dole.
"We still have Alves and so we dont really have the room to do anything," he explained. "And on Alves there is nothing imminent.
You would hope that Lambie has spent the entire weekend on the phone to Porto, Ajax and every club between here and Qatar thrashing out a formula on wages and fee that would enable Alves to be prised out, The alternative is unthinkable .
"I will just be pleased to get to Tuesday and keep the squad we have already got because that is going to be as important as any additions we might make."
If the pressure is on to bring in more money to reduce debts the biggest danger now appears to be that unless Alves can be moved on then a late bid for Boro's few remaining readily saleable assets - Wheater, Johnson, O'Neil will raise the most but Williams, Taylor, Grounds, McMahon would also have suitors - may well be accepted... a course that will spark outright fan revolt and leave the team vulnerable to the worst.
Meanwhile, if Alves doesn't go before Tuesday then the disaffected, demotivated and unfit flop will have to come in from the cold. Southgate knows that and for the first time included him in his calculations. Asked if without a new striker Boro - Webber or Hulse - were short up front he said: "Well, we have four good strikers in the squad at the moment: the three that were here today plus Afonso Alves. That is a full complement."
Now, where did we put that banner?
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Anthony Vickers
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A.V.
It is not the defeats this week that rankle, but the nature of them, same old same old.
It is no use critcising Mr. Southgate, everybody but the man who counts, Mr. Gibson knows how inadequate he is.
Some are criticised on this board for wanting the Boro to fail so that the manager will be changed, apparently as Mr. Gibson has said that he will do so, if the team is not in a challlenging position after twelve games.
We are all so gullible, why should Mr. Gibson keep his word about the replacement of the manager, he has broken it so many times before. In any case why wait twelve games after the last two results the writing is on the wall, for all, apart from Mr. Gibson to see.
The debate should be around where this club is headed and why.
AV. What is the story with Alves. Is he *injured
*doesn't want to play
*or is now just effectively written-off
What a schemozzle!
John Aus
Dont you think AV that it is about time that Mr Gibson or Lamb comes clean about the financial situation of the club?
The fans have been fed a lot of things which are not exactly truthful. I have said for a long time that the club has financial problems, most fans believed the majority of the clubs debt was owed to Gibson/Oneil but you only have to read the accounts to see that a lot of it is/was owed to the banks. So Gibson reducing the debt back in May was just more spin unless he wrote a cheque to Barclays to take the pressure off MFC or did he do other things that changed the balance sheet?
I have never been a big fan of Southgate as our manager but may be its because I am still waiting for the World Class manager that Gibson said he was employing. In fact im still waiting for the 2 World class signings that he promised us also.
I now actually feel sorry for Southgate,not only is he relatively inexperienced but his job is made more difficult because the tools that he needs to succeed which the club own are being sold without his blessing.
The best player Boro have made in my opinion during Southgate's rein was Young but he was sold for profit and not footballing reason's which was very short sighted.We will be saying the same about Huth's departure also.No lesson's learnt.
If Mr Gibson wants an empty Riverside then he is going about it the right way.If he cannot afford to own the club then may be he should pass it to somebody that can (He would if he loved it as much as he says he does). Lets not forget that he said that under his stewardship MFC would never go the way it did under Charles Amer but how can we believe him after the spin to fans for a number of years.
I love Boro with all my heart and I thought Gibson was the ultimate Chairman/ Owner but he needs to be truthful otherwise he will be no different to Amer in my eyes.
Ah yes, I remember why Wenger sold Ali, couldn't get into the Arsenal first team and £3m brought tears of gratitude to his eyes.
Ali couldn't hit a barn door with a shovel and I remember why he was bought by GS, he's a prolific non-scorer and very consistent at it.
Exactly what his level is is yet to be determined but he's apparently still having trouble with that shovel.
The clean sheet record going after selling Huth would not be a coincidence would it? But the most worrying aspect of the current situation would be GS's comment at the after game interview, quote "there is no money available to buy players".
Boro West Oz
The thing that riles me most about the transfers saga is the negativity coming from Southgate every time he is interviewed. It's the same old line..."don't know who will be leaving, don't think I'll have any money to spend."
First of all this seems to be sending out the message that Boro HAVE to sell, thereby inviting ridiculously low bids. If that doesn't work then clubs are waiting until the deadline approaches to see if Boro will panic.
The second message seems to be that Southgate is distancing himself from the responsibility for the transfers. It appears that some puppet master is pulling the strings and the manager(ha!) is merely toeing the party line.
If Boro do need to sell to balance the books then surely a bit of bluff would have placed them in a better bargaining position. I wouldn't mind playing poker against this lot, even my missus would clean up.
All this talk after relegation about how we would bounce back better and stronger seems to have been the only bluff that this lot are capable of.
After nigh on 50 years of following Boro I must admit even I am starting to despair for the future. We have a handful of good young players, a couple of experienced journeymen, and no strength in depth for what promises to be a long gruelling season. At the moment I can only see us being closer to Div 1 than the premiership come the end of the season.
Gibbo last summer - 'We are going to sign spectacular players'
Result - didn't happen.
The club - 'The club debt has been significantly reduced and the club is on a firm financial footing'
Result - £23 million in so far plus the parachute payment , non of it being spent on players.
The club this summer - 'we don't need to sell before we buy.
Result - Look at whose been brought in.
Finally, (but there are many other examples). The Club - 'The club will eventually benefit from the Hotel & Golf club'
How does that work when if we believe what we are told the club has not lost out because of the investment. This would take a financial magician and when you look at the sales of Huth and Tuncay you realize how far fetched that is.
It's all about opinions and Yes I firmly believe the club planned for relegation as a potential result of their downsizing so, as they have admitted they could financially restructure. Of course if they could do it in the Premiership they would have, but with the planned restructuring we have seen they would almost certainly have been relegated anyway.
Why keep the most incompetent manager in the history of the club in charge unless he was doing what they wanted? Yes, they bought Alves, but of course they knew they could resell him at a small loss after relegation. Unfortunately they couldn't have forseen how bad a player he would turn out to be.
You are right AV the club's PR stinks and to cap it all we have Southgate entering on the sort of streak he does best - Losing. This blog has been great for letting off steam but has no effect on the club's direction whatsoever.
As for me I'm signing off after thirty eight years as a season ticket holder. I didn't renew this season and I made the right decision. I supported the club years ago when they were happy to be a middle of the road second division team. What Gibbo did in 1994 was break that mould and in doing so raised the expectations of the fans, to go back to mediocrity is too hard a pill to swallow.
Cheers.
PS If more players leave then it begins to smack of asset stripping before a sale, bearing in mind what I said at the beginning don't be surprised to see the club up for sale soon despite what Gibbo said earlier in the year.
I'm sorry, but wasn't the Berlin Wall in the team that shipped two to Forest?
The script had been written for this one, so no surprises really; how many points did we surrender right at the death last season?
What was more alarming than either the result or the performance, or indeed the loss of Tuncay and Huth, were GS comments after the game, as reported by the BBC: "I've lost Robert Huth and Tuncay to Stoke City and more could be going, and it doesn't look as if I'll have money to spend."
As SG has come in for growing criticism I've noted your stout and reasoned defence of him AV, in your quest to bring balance to the debate, however...
I keep returning to Eindhoven because for me that was the point at which SG really began to lean heavilly on the 'blind faith' card as reality set off in the opposite direction to the spin
Ever since, we've been fed a diet of misinformation and false ambition. It is absolutely clear that the club embarked upon a detailed and conscious policy of cost-cutting. This explains why the club could not match Martin O'Neill's ambition, and why instead SG decided to retire the club captain and give him the job, despite a total lack of relevant experience or qualifications
I have no issues re the need to run the club on a sound financial basis. When an organisation is undergoing a period of rationalisation or embarking upon what has to be a high-risk strategy, then the need to have an experienced manager overseeing the operation is greater than ever. The decision to appoint a complete novice (and I've heard all the justifications) is at best a complete failure of stewardship
Even so, more than the incompetent leadership, what I find unforgiveable is the way in which the club consciously fed the fans a diet of unachievable ambition and false hope. SG promised a top-class manager, he promised more European football, he promised more cup finals, he promised top-quality signings. How could he possibly do this knowing the secret of tighter budgets, lower investment and an inability to match the financial muscle even of clubs smaller than ourselves?
SG set off, post Eindhoven, pointing North, while heading South, and imploring the doubters to 'trust him'. Having passed out of the Premier League and found ourselves in the murky but self-evidently Southern waters of the Championship, once again SG asks us to have 'blind faith', he makes more promises of a 'stronger squad' than the one that was relegated, and of maintaining the overall wage levels for one season at least. He committed to turn the ship around and start heading North again...
The problem is that GS has started to look to his next job already, and is positioning himself as the helpless victim of enforced budget cuts and asset stripping that leave him unable to compete, even a division down. He's telling it like it is, at last, and although it doesn't excuse his failings as a coach/manager, it does at least give some context to the situation that helps us to know and understand what is really going on
The relationship between a football club and its supporters is similar to that between a husband and a wife. When one starts lying to the other about fundamental issues it's bound to end in tears, and once trust is gone it's almost impossible to get it back - divorce isn't inevitable, but it's a real possibility
SG has given us all some of the best times of our lives and how can we ever forget that? The tragedy is that a lot of us are convinced that ever since Eindhoven we've been lied to, systematically, consciously and consistently. the question is how can we ever forget or forgive that?
Spot on AV. The first major setback but it won't be the last. You single out Ali but there were a number of other disappointing performances as those who may consider themselves too good for the Championship failed to stand up to the physical approach of City and to take responsibility.
Two weeks to sort it out and hopefully some muscle some commitment and some maturity to come back in soon, hopefully not the result of panic buys though.
It's going to be a very long, very hard slog!
FOr the second game in a week, the back four lineup was changed. The first time was on a whim, the second time as a result of selling Huth. We lost both games. That's what happens when you repeatedly change personnel. You need consistency in performance and personnel.
Aliadiere is a liability, not an asset.
We are teetering on the slippery slope, without doubt. No coincidence that with Huth gone so goes the clean sheet and with no money or will to make replacements I can only foresee a slide into oblivion. 'Best Chairman' Gibson, having rescued the club heroically, is now, unbelievably, presiding over its demise.
Time to sell Steve (assuming you could find a buyer) or see Boro back where we came from - the 3rd Division. I'm afraid you simply don't have enough of a fortune to run a football club in this day and age.
Statements like 'in this league you can make loan signings, so we'll have to look at that' merely cement my view that Boro has had its moment in the sun. What is the point of aiming for promotion when you don't have the money to operate in the Championship? What would Gibson be able do to secure the money to be able to compete in the Premier League were we, by some miracle, to be promoted? Very little I suspect.
It's all very sad but I honestly believe that with the current regime in place, Boro fans have seen the last of top flight football.
Looking at the bgger picture, Middlesbrough Newcastle and Portsmouth are all assett stripping to reduce costs which makes me think that the banks have a lot do with the current situation at the Boro
I’ve just read some shocking stuff in the most recent issue of a professional magazine that has given me a whole new perspective on why Boro is where Boro is and why Boro is, effectively, at this time a selling club.
I think it’s worth sharing. The sheer scale of events has caught me by surprise and it has been my lack of understanding of the magnitude of the relevant events that has kept the connection hidden from me. I suspect others will be in the same boat.
I’m beginning to realise that with the disintegration of what used to be wholly-integrated and ICI-only owned manufacturing assets on Teesside, the advantages of that integration were, under disparate ownership, unsustainable over time.
The effects of that have, in recent times been accelerated with lots of capacity run-down and total shutdown of manufacturing of many large tonnage products. These are huge events in terms of the volumes of materials handled and shipped. I feel sure that Bulkhaul must have lost huge revenues as a consequence of shipping contract terminations and that this has been a major contributory factor to the reassessment of financial support available to Boro.
Having just become aware of the scale of things, I can see that this is likely to be at the core of Boro’s slide in recent years and in particular, over the past twelve months or so.
And I now have some reason to consider that things have only become worse for Steve Gibson in very recent weeks, if not months, as a result of the closure of further chemical manufacturing assets at Wilton and the further loss of haulage contract income.
This could explain - and I can see a direct causal link - for him to have said one thing in May and then have the rug subsequently pulled out from under him, big time.
Details are expanded in a more substantial piece on Boro Banter. The link is:
http://borobanter.gazettelive.co.uk/2009/08/boros-chemical-bonds-and-chain-reactions.html
It’s difficult for all concerned with Boro, when we have to guess at motives, strategies and the truth behind whatever ambition still burns in the boardroom and why having said one thing, the club executive apparently contradicts itself with actions inconsistent with earlier proclamations of intent!
But if you read the Boro Banter piece, perhaps you’ll begin to consider a bigger picture and feel a bit more like I do. (Yes, yes, I know – tired, bored and fed up - but also a bit more than that!)
**AV writes: My understanding is that almost all of Bulkhaul's operation has been gradually switched from the UK to the far East over the past five years with only logistics, admin and some specialist functions run from Teesside now. I'm not sure the closures on our doorstep will have such a drastic impact on the company but that said the world downturn will no doubt have had an impact on the international trade but to what extent I really don't know.
I agree we should sell Ali andI for one (unlike many) feel that Webber would be a better CF than him. Ali is a CF am i right? Well his goal record is awful and that includes a spell at Celtic....god even I could get 10 goals in Scotland.
Twice in a week we have seen what a difference a good CF makes. Maynard (linked with Boro every window when at Crewe) had 2 chances and banged them in. At Forest on Tues Ali missed a great chance at 1-0 when clear on goal... blazed over!! and yesterday he had two half chances at 1-1 with minutes to go ...fluffed both!!
We need not one but two good CFs in my opinion..but unless they cost less than 50p its not gonna happen!
Steve Gibson at the end of the transfer window needs to make some kind of statement to explain what the position is for the sake of his credibility and relationship with the fans .
Nigel[Mumbai] has it spot on in his last paragraph. I feel there is a sea change in public opinion which previously pointed the finger at Gareth Southgate. Ever since the sale of Luke Young Southgate has had the rug pulled from under him over and over again.
If Steve Gibson is insisting that Southgate delivers a promotion season and then sells his top earners[ understandable] but will not allow replacements to be brought in I suugest he gets Merlin the Magician to run the team because that is the only way we'll go up.
Something is getting fishier and fishier by the day. If Southgate indeed was behind the signings of Alves, Mido, Shawky and others,then you would think he would be doing all he could to make them feel wanted, working hard with them to help them produce if not only to prove to people at Boro but people in football,that he does have the skills to be a top manager,
However within no time of signing them he wanted to bomb them out, I can see making a mistake with the odd signing but not five or six of them ,it smells really bad
All good debate about the clubs finances / downsizing / debt management / bad PR / asset stripping conspiracy theories etc.
But all that aside, I am convinced that if a proper football manager had been in place for the last three years, Boro would be operating on a manageable and much downsized budget - but still be competing (all be it mid-table) in the Premier League, and able to complete in the Cups.
Southgate is the problem. He is useless as a Manager. Gibbo just cant see it. Which is the other problem.
If we forgive Southgate because of the current cash constraints then we are forgetting 3 seasons of decline without those constraints. HE'S WASTED A FORTUNE. I doubt Gibbo has any faith in Southgate's abilty to buy a decent player anymore. Hence no budget. Wise but unfortunate move.
I guess Gibson/Lamb/Southgate aren't going to come out and give supporters the type of full, honest financial assessment of the club they want until after the transfer deadline. Admitting now that you are desperate for money makes it harder to drive a good deal for any players you're trying to sell/buy. We just have to hold out until Tuesday then...
It's really hitting home now that we are a small club. I really wouldn't want Gibson to leave, not only because of what he's done, but because we'd clearly never be an attractive option to investors.
It's been said before, but there are only two ways for Middlesbrough to be successful in the long run.
1. A rich fan to pour their own money in (which is what we've had for the last 12 years. Note, it would have to be a fan, because no outside investor is going to see any benefit in buying the club)
2. To be better organised and smarter than the clubs around us (this is what we're trying to do now)
The change-over from strategy one to two is pretty painful though, as we're experiencing right about now.
There was a comment after AV's match report which captured my views entirely.
Rather than re-write it this is what Mansfield4Boro5 wrote:
"Middlesbrough boss Gareth Southgate was quoted on the BBC as saying:
"As we had come back into it with a penalty, this result is very hard to take.
"We came here for a result ahead of the transfer deadline, which could see players leaving. I've lost Robert Huth and Tuncay to Stoke City and more could be going, and it doesn't look as if I'll have money to spend."
After SG's 'Blind Faith appeal in May many fans feel they have been seriously misled and comments like Gareth's only seem to reinforce this. The time has come when MFC have to recognise that the fans are not idiots but (intelligent supporters who) do have the best interests of the club at heart. Come clean with us MFC and we will support you but continue this bull and misinformation and you risk alienating the fans when we're needed most.
**AV writes: Southgate went on to admit, when asked specifically about Danny Webber that he could not even afford to bring in a free transfer unless Alves could be moved to free up space in the wage bill..
Gareth's concern that there may be more players going and that he will not have anything to spend is worrying. It is becoming abundantly clear that there is now a "Fire Sale" down at the Riverside and I don't think GS has any influence or control over anything that's going on. His role is day by day appearing to be more of a stooge.
Several month's ago there was speculation on this blog regarding the "Alves goal machine" banner (by coincidence it was removed before the next home game), the way things are at the minute similar reservations are now surfacing over the Steve Gibson East Stand pre match banner, unthinkable maybe but not unfathomable.
The complaints have long been mounting about the fans being excluded by the club indeed almost punished because they dared question what was going on behind the scenes hence the numerous Boro and MFC references.
The clock's ticking and the fuse will be well and truly lit if nothing positive happens before deadline day.
Blind faith? Blind alley!
AV I hope you are reading this as i would like to know if you have any further info.
.
From my limited knowledge we have brought in £24m spent £1mill and reduced the wage bill by around £100k per week which is around £5mill so we are £29mill better of this season, "e lost around £28mill by dropping out of the prem so we are at the moment breaking even with last yr,
So how come we havent a penny to spend? Are we a lot worse off than people are admitting , because if we were still in the prem and these figures were correct then without selling we still wouldnt have been able to buy anyone.
I hope you have more info..thanks
**AV writes: The transfer income - I make it £21.45m - won't be all up front but in instalments so how much goes in the pot from that is an unknown.
You are right the wages bill has been slashed by about £100k per week but it is still around the £25m per year mark and it still far exceeds income which will drop from about £40m last year to about £10m plus the parachute payment of £12m.
So you can see that even with the cuts we are barely breaking even. Then there is the debt to be serviced - the last figures I saw were £6m a year but after the restructuring last year that may be more expensive - the team, stadium, training ground and academy to be run which I think is about £4m and the community projects which are £9m a year (although there is a lot of grant support on that).
The basic problem is that the club have been running a £10m a year deficit throughout the Premier League years. After relegation and with such a big drop in income the banks are not so willing to let the overdraft ride while the general economic squeeze means the chairman can't so easily underwrite it.
The income basically only just covered the wage bill for over a decade so all the transfer fees and running costs have been added to the bottom line. The glory years have all been on plastic.... now the bill has come in.
Not only is Boro's current situation making me angry (I have nothing more to add to the above splendid and passionate comments, and I refer you all to my previous comment a couple of blogs ago on getting to 1700hrs on 31st without losing anymore players), but AV what is really bugging me every time I read through the posts is this... when I reach the end, I have to scroll all the way back to the top to get at the page links again! Frustrating indeed! Get the webmaster to add either a "TOP" button or a copy of the page links at the page end!!
**AV writes: I'll pass your comments on.
I am getting a sense of dejavu for the Ipswich game, but its Millwall at home in Lennie's last season - same colour shirt opponents but we started brightly, went in front but then went behind and the floodgates opened for abuse, catcalling and a schism opened up between the fans that was never healed until Robbo turned up.
If, god forbid, Johnson or Wheater goes then I am expecting a similar reaction that Saturday and I don't think we are too far from hearing the first Anti-Gibson voices raised publicly for the first time.
One unexepected bonus for Southgate in this, and it's a small crumb of comfort, is that many of his detractors will be feeling a sense of sympathy for him that they never did before. He hasn't helped himself with some of his decisions and tactics (left back in central defence, centre half in midfield etc) but for once it is apparent that not every decision is being made by him and possibly the reason we don't have the "top class" manager we were promised is that no top class manager would work under the conditions that GS operates under.
I'd still prefer to see the back of him but ultimately it doesn't matter if you've got sooty or sweep in charge if Matthew's calling the shots.
What ever the financial situation, I agree with stevo that the board just don't trust Gareth with any money they may have.
The way Gareth is talking at the moment has the feeling that he is building himself up for a resignation as his position becomes untenable. He is also inviting low offers for any of our players
Whatever is going on we should bring Alves in from the cold, get him fit and get him on the pitch. I bet he'd score goals for fun in this league.
one question i would like to ask SG is: do we want promotion or not? If we do then why sell our best players at knock down prices, We would surely have a great chance of going up with Huth and Tuncay.
The time is approaching when fan loyalty will be exhausted and public cries for SG to go are not far away. I remember Ayresome Park when the fans called for 'Amer out' . Banners were unfurled inside the ground and there were ugly scenes and barracking outside the director's box after the games.
Does anybody know of a club of our stature having three novice managers in a row?
So come on SG/KL lets have the facts and figures, clubs ambitions before it is too late as sadly morale is at a very low ebb amongst the fans I rub shoulders with, Remember honestly is the best policy.
Is Gareth Soutgate a man or a mouse?
He has been pushed around by the money men of Boro and not stood up against them. All the players must know what sort of character he is and hence he is a very poor manager of experienced players. Ask Woodgate, Yakubu, Morrison, Cattermole, Greening ,Schwartzer. Good Players have been virtually given away,
Even players are now claiming that Boro should not have been relegated. And what did Southgate claim almost every week? "I could not ask for more from the players".The problems come from the top and it is now almost certain the rot has set in for this season. I guess its the moneymen who caused last week's loss in the cup and yesterday's loss at Bristol. Southgate either stand up and be counted or get out
The cold harsh reality is that a financial re-structuring is in progress. Most of us have been through these at places we've worked at when times are tough and the company's income falls.
The only choices are
1. Selling more - nope, not going to happen, less people are going to come through the gates and I don't see many people buying "Aliadiere Boro Goal Machine" shirts.
2. Sale of assets - we're going through this, value depends on what others are prepared to pay not what we bought them at.
3. Cut operating costs - which means getting high wages earners off the books.
4. the Ridsdale option - a risky gamble that everything will be right on the night and put off the problem until tomorrow.
We're now in the famous Lamb "cut our cloth" "the team we can afford" situation - don't you just hate those phrases ?
AV, Ref your response to my post at 1:18PM and the Boro Banter piece:
I agree, that's likely to be the case. However, it's perhaps easier to convince people with local anecdotal evidence that is verifiable than to expect them to accept something remote and even ethereal.
If you refer to your blog dated 13 May 2009, and my contributions to it, you'll be reminded that I then acknowledged it to be a global issue and Bulkhaul's international involvement. (I made reference to personally witnessing huge qualtities of idle shipping capacity in the Straits of Singapore throughout February 2009 and referred to the two Singapore-registered freighters berthed at Middlehaven at that time - and they're still there!!)
Until people start to hurt however, they seem reluctant to accept the reality of it. Witnessing tangible local effects of the global issue somehow makes it more real for people.
[A historical bio-snippet: Having been part of the commissioning and start-up team on the T8 PTA Plant in 1980-1, and having been Plant Manager on T8, and on T7 before that, I have some emotional investment in both the industrial side of the issue as well as having developed an affinity for Boro. The recent asset closure and redundancies and the piece in TCE therefore resonated strongly with me.]
The trouble with Gareth is he's too honest for his own good.
We'll get through this, but it's worrying and frustrating. I don't know anything about Bulkhaul's fortunes, but it seems evident that the slump in global trade is bound to have an effect on its revenues.
Southgate seems to think we can use the loan system to some benefit. It seems to make more sense than investing in sub-premier league grade assets on a long term basis. Year long loan deals may get us to a position where we can invest in a future campaign without too much lower-league 'baggage'. Better get moving then.
I read all the spleen-venting stuff with sadness, but I share the frustrations. However we have still got a Chairman the rest of the league (all divisions) would kill for, and I will stand by him even if it takes several years to get back where we belong. He sticks by those who he thinks deserve his backing. He has integrity, and I for one am damn grateful he's no knee-jerk hire-and-fire 'em merchant.
Up the Boro.
Although I do not rate GS as a manager I have a feeling that SG is not giving him any money to spend this season. Is it possible he is tempting GS into resigning and thus not having to pay him off? Just a thought.
We know we have not been told the truth since Eindhoven about anything MFC but I really think it is time for the club to come clean.
I say this for the sake of the club and the fans as there is increasing tension and in my opinion its because we are kept in the dark and fed lies by both manager, chief exec and most embarrasingly the chairman.
I'm not going to start having a go at anybody at the club until I know the truth behind this dire situation we find ourselves in. I only hope we find this out sooner rather than later as this season could end up more disasterous than the last.
The recent "Pick and Mix" team selection is reminiscent of Woolworths. And whatever happened to them?
Sad to say that a large part of the blame can be apportioned to the 10,000 fans missing from the 35,000 crowd days.
A football team is for life, not just for Christmas.
extract from BBC SPORT
Dont try to tell me anymore that Southgate does not know what is going on behind the scenes. He knew this before the game.
"We came here for a result ahead of the transfer deadline, which could see players leaving. "I've lost Robert Huth and Tuncay to Stoke City and more could be going, and it doesn't look as if I'll have money to spend."
We have now lost two on the trot outside of the 90mins. That is complancency by the plyers, this is exactly how we went last year.
I have had enough of this management top to bottom/
Last week Southgate said: "If Huthand Tuncay go we have targets to go for before the transfer deadline." Now he says what he is saying. The guy is just a puppet. Even the memories will fade soon. We are just raking in money without any intent of spening any of it.
Good luck to the players who have left the sinking ship. They had sense to get off before the captains (Gibson, Lamb and Southgate) take us down.
We are not a successful club run by local man made good any more. WE ARE PURELY A BUSINESS AND ONE NOT VERY WELL MANAGED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
Regarding the speculation that MFC are not coming clean about the financial situation until after the transfer window closes...
What that would mean is that MFC are only selling, and not buying.
If you are selling, you do not want it to come out that you need money, because then you will only get 5 million for players that are worth 8 million or more.
But if you are buying, you want the perception that you have no money, so sellers do not hold out for a higher offer from you.
So, Southgate's continual claim of "we have no money to spend" is either a clever ploy to get new players for less money, or else it is a foolish statement that only leads to selling 8 million pound players for 5 million.
The next day or two will tell us.
PS Sell either Johnson or Wheater and you can kiss both the Championship and the Premiership good bye.
Worrying times for the Boro, however can't help going back to two years ago, when I used to write to this site, with words to the effect that would Mercedes, Microsoft or Coca Cola appoint an untried, inexperienced and unqualified manager to run their business ?.
SG did when he appointed GS as Boro Manager. A blunder of such proportions, that I fear Boro will never recover.
The more we try to shed light on the financial situation at Boro the more confusing it gets.
In a reply to Rich you agreed that Boro have slashed £100k a week off the wage bill -surely it's much more than that.
The wages from Downing, Mido, Tuncay and Huth would have been at least £200k a week and the incoming Yeates and Lita will earn a maximum of £40k between them - with Coynes wages being offset by Turnbull's departure.
The reported sale of Alves will further reduce the wage bill by £50k a week and if the fee of £7m is true then I'd call that a result.
Despite Southgate pleading poverty, I calculate Boro will then have covered their income shortfall and be able to spend £8-10m on transfers and wages.
Still there are still a couple of possiblities - O'Neil may still end up leaving this window and given the finances would Boro risk letting Johnson leave for free at the end of the season?
Regarding Steve Gibson's financial input - I still can't decide if he's actually put any money into the club or just acted as a loan guarantor through his parent company and/or shifted money between his companies.
If as you say we operated a loss of £10m per year in the PL - was this loss kept lower by actual cash injected by SG?
Anyway, back onto football, the loss at Bristol was entirely predictable - Southgate had only one recognised centreback, with his first choice midfield pairing missing and no replacements up front.
If we buy a decent striker (or two) and have Pogi, Riggot, O'Neil and Digard fit then I'll judge Southgate - a bit of perspective is needed as when I looked at the table this morning we were sitting third, one point from the top.
Like it or not, angry or otherwise, Boro not MFC - I'm sure we're all Boro enough to stay with the team but we'd prefer to be levelled with and not misled.
We're now clearly approaching The Count's vision of 'the team no money can buy' and that will limit our ambitions.
But I'd certainly prefer it if Mr. Integrity No.1, Gibbo came back to the Gazette and Radio Tees and explained why and how Blind Faith became Blind Alley in only a few weeks and, so, why everything he said on his last appearance in support of his plea has turned out not to be true or has gone off the rails.
This time, he should have to answer the questions about the club's finances that he specifically refused to answer last time. He's presumably going to ask us to keep going, keep supporting and spending our hard earned. Telling us where the money is going and how it's being managed is only the sort of question any investor or customer would want to know the answer to.
How can he ask for trust if he won't do this?
He can then tell us what he proposes to do about the situation we're now in and shape our expectations. And I think those expectations are now for a lengthy stay in The Championship, sadly. I hope against hope to be proved wrong, of course.
We can then react accordingly - as can Mr. Integrity No.2, Gate. I think that the lines between The Manager and The Chairman and CEO are being drawn clearer every day but I think there's only so long that Gate can play the 'oh woe is me' card.
He's either got to accept the situation and prove that he can meet or exceed expectations at whatever the level provided or he has to go.
AV
What on Earth is going on with 'the invisible man' - Shawky?
He clearly doesn't want to be here and has said so. He's also fit - apparently - since he'll play for Egypt in the next fortnight. So, he's obviously not in Gate's team, squad or plans -presumably because he doesn't have the right head on.
Is he on his way or are we stuck with a refusenik taking up a place in the squad and wages we could be using to accommodate someone we could actually use.
**AV writes: He is in the black hole of Hurworth that people disappear into occasionally. He'll no doubt be back to play up front against Newcastle.
In some ways there's a parallel between MFC and a political dictatorship, in that both are run, more or less, as autocratic bodies.
Dictatorships often start with unrest, in fighting and even blood letting at their most extreme.
Following the padlocking of Ayresome, as I recall there was a period of shared responsibilty by local businesses,and after much infighting, privately and in public, Steve Gibson took complete control, running the club as the sole leader, therefore unanswerable to anyone else.
Now history suggests that even autocratic leadership can start with the best intentions, but cannot be sustained indefinately, and without outside help and new ideas. Everything comes to an end.
The problem worsens however, when those in charge refuse to change their tact, causing unrest amongst the natives and many of those who initially bought into the what they considered to be the promised land.
Even as the situation worsened, many, indeed most stood by the leader (and in this case his henchman)choosing to remain blinkered to what's become a chronic situation that could end in total disaster, if not checked sooner rather than later.
In Boro's case and without defending Gareth Southgate too much, he has become the front man and scapegoat, with nothing of substance coming from the leader or even the second in command. As such, what happens when Gareth Southgate is forced out or decides before this to fall on his sword? What will Steve Gibson do and say then?
History proves in many cases that dictatorships/autocracy's start well but turn bad to the point where the rank and file demand change. It seems to me that MFC is fast approaching that point and is unable, for reasons not entirely of it's own making,to make the necessary changes which might restore the peoples(supporters) faith and goodwill.
With all my heart I'm sorry to say, it's time to go Steve,(and Keith) but thanks for the ride, it was fabulous while it lasted.
Desperate times need desperate measures.
With hints that only Webber (what about Lovenkrands?) may come in up front as a free if Alves goes maybe its time Gareth dusts off his boots and fills the Huth gap himself with Smithy coming down to the touchline allowing Gareth to be a Player/Manager.
He still looks reasonably fit and I'm sure he still joins in training sessions. His experience and leadership qualities would see him through this division with the youth of Macca, Hoyte, Grounds, Tayls (assuming he doesn't exit to Blackburn), Wheats, Hines around him.
Watching Sky Sports this morning Liverpool fans are wringing their hands over a lack of cash, West Ham can't buy unless they sell. Portsmouth have been well documented but are apparently now sorted after their take over but Calamity still looks a dead cert to be on his way. Even mighty Manure seem unwilling to add to their alleged £700M deficit. It looks like the Banking fraternity are having a huge influence on deadline day.
Yes we are sitting third today, fortunatly most of the top sides not performing well this weekend but if them up the road win we will drop another place.
Not nearly the end of the world but just hope by the close we are still third, the Geordies lost, we have lost no other players barring Alves and we forgot Webbers phone number and found Beckfords or at least Hulse.
Paul Scoles...Gary Neville...Nigel Reo-Coker...Marlon Harewood...Rob Hulse... Bobo Balde...Danny Webber...
August 24: The Boro boss told the Evening Gazette he “had every scenario covered” with an extensive list of potential targets.
August 29: Not even enough to bring in free transfer.
What is happening?
AV - your analysis of the current situation has been first class but we need to hear from the Chairman what exactly is going on.
Unlike some, I feel certain he has the club's best interests at heart and is doing everything he can to play a very bad hand.
However, we need to hear from the front what is being done, why our transfer target list has been so drastically redrawn, and how, as collective, we can rally together and turn this around.
Whilst we still have quality in the squad, and have not lost too much ground in the league there is till much hope. However, the conflicting statements from GS and the absence of any comments by either the Chairman or KL create the sense of disunity and crisis.
I maybe reading too much into this but if I am that is because I am filling the void with heresay and blogs from other panic stricken fans. Not to mention the morose observations from pundits such as Steve Claridge.
**AV writes: The way I read it the situation has changed quite markedly since May because the club have restructured their debt - which is a good thing - but in return the banks have asked them to reduce their overdraft which has proved problematic... if only because the players they wanted to move didn't go quickly.
Think of it as you changing your mortgage to get a lower interest rate but being charged a big arrangement fee up front. It may cause some short term liquidity problems but be beneficial in the long run. That is where I think we are.
The changes have left Boro without cash in the short term and they were budgeting on getting the five - Downing, Huth, Tuncay, Mido and Alves out quickly. If Alves goes tonight - we must hope his trip to Qater is a success - then that may release some cash and some space on the wage bill to bring in those people Southgate has lined up, say Webber, Brian Hughes and AN Other.
Ideally that would have been done weeks ago but it hasn't which has left the club, who know what is going on, sweating and the supporters, who do not, on the verge of outright panic.
The problems that we have at boro are a consequence of the insular approach that has been adopted by the club management from top to bottom. This has resulted in the financial strangulation of the club we all love.
When Steve Gibson started investing heavily in the transfer market (i.e at the beginning of the Robson era), the premier league was a very different place to what it is today. Mr Gibson was the equivalent then, that Mr Abramovich is at Chelsea today. We were able to pay top dollar for some of the best players in the world (Ravanelli and Juninho spring to mind) and as a result were a very exciting proposition for transfer targets. We were considered to be a provincial club ready to make a big splash in the newly formed premiership pond.
At that time boro were in an ideal position to promote the club worldwide, build up a fan base in some far flung countries such as Japan, China, Asia, and make a fortune on replica kits and other club merchandise, and tour them countries to build up that worldwide appeal, and potentially lucrative markets. But the club missed a trick.
Instead of embracing the potential worldwide appeal of being one of the financial heavyweights in a fledgling 'Premier Leaguet the Boro heirarchy decided that a 'local team' approach was the way to go. And what a disastrous decision that was.
Instead of going with a well known and liked commercial brand of kit maker and letting them sell kits in their millions all over the world Boro decided that the only place you could buy them was either at the club shop, or online, and it was mainly of sub-standard quality compared to the oppositions. That decision must go down as one of the biggest own goals in financial terms that was ever made by the club.
Instead of tapping into the potential worldwide market and appeal of the 'Premier League' the club decided you could only buy a Boro shirt if you actually physically travelled to Middlesbrough, or went online. This is unbelievable, and fails miserably to tap into potentially lucrative replica kit revenue stream. Unforgivable.
During the early 90's the internet was not affordable to most fans.And even today the business model is still formed on a local basis. why don't Adidas stock replica shirts in all the sports outlets that you see up and down every high street in the country? In my opinion the business model was flawed from the outset and still is.
Since the Robson era, the owners of other clubs became richer, and as a consequence, Steve Gibson's financial influence in the premier league began to diminish. We now have a situation where you have billionaire owners of football clubs in the premier league, and Steve Gibson cannot now compete as he once could.We became a very small fish in a massive premiership pond.
By adopting the insular 'local brand, local team' approach, the club missed the financial boat, and opportunity that presented itself during the heady days of world class players.
The 'local team' policy of the club has now manifested itself into a self fulfilling proficy, where ultimately we will only be able to compete financially on a local level. Where as, every other premier league team tries to market itself on the world stage.
The responsibility for the current dire financial position lays firmly at the door of the club management. It cannot be blamed simply on the current economic downturn, but instead is a result of the club not grabbing the financial opportunity when it had the chance (during the early premiership years, and the ten years of premierleague football we had), and by the finacial limitations it adopted with its local team approach. The club had the chance, and it blew it....BIG TIME.
**AV writes: I agree with most of that and will add that the transfer policy was also deeply flawed and too many ageing superstars were brought in for big fees and on big wages that gave decent service but had no resale value. That is where the debt has ultimately come from.
Several references to the banks here, all probably from people that have experience of dealing with them in their own businesses. They will only lend you an umbrella when the sun is shining!
Reading between the lines the club is one of very many facing serious financial challenges and like it or not the first (and legal) responsibility of Directors is to safeguard the future of the business.
If there is an element of truth in what we read SG is in no position to introduce personal or company money. The banks will certainly be insisting on a reduction in debt and that, I am afraid, is where all incoming money will be going. In all probability they are also insisting on operating costs being reduced in order to see debt further reduced to a level if will continue to support the business at all.
We are paying the price of relegation so I guess it is inevitable that large proportions of the fan base will turn their frustration into personal criticism which will only be depleted if there is some clarity from the top. At the moment I would agree the silence hints at arrogance but then I still believe SG really cares so there are probably sound reasons behind this.
The danger is that this frustration will spill onto the pitch and destroy the confidence of the promising young players upon whom we will have to depend if we are going to build a firm foundation for a serious promotion challenge in what is already proving to be a very competitive league. Should this happen then it will not aid the cause of attracting or retaining talent either, we as fans have a part to play here all summed up by the following quote from Huth:
‘‘When I played at Stoke with Middlesbrough last season the noise was so loud that I couldn’t hear my teammates and they couldn’t hear me. That made the game even more difficult for us and it will be nice to have those supporters cheering me on.’’ Turkey captain Tuncay completed a £5m transfer yesterday and also recalled his memories of the same game.
He said: ‘‘The fans put real pressure on teams and players who come here and I will be pleased to play for them.”
Just terribly to wait for the window to close. Then we know who we have. Luckily we can still get some loan players after that. But are they usually young players who are loaned by the PL clubs? We need an old head to our midfield. But the big striker could be loaned, though.
We should be able to concentrate on the matches now - after tomorrow's window closes. I hate the windows (in computers, too). But we have to live with them.
I thought we needed to ship away only three to four high earners and then we could buy some new players. With Downing, Mido, Huth and Tuncay gone I now expect some incomings. But GS tells us he don't have money to spend.
Tense 27 hours left!
"Not nearly the end of the world but just hope by the close we are still third, the Geordies lost"
If the geordies lose tonight then Leicester will go above us Mr Thicky. LOL!
I see in today's Gazette that Gate is now saying that the likes of O'Neil, Digard, Pogi and Riggs are only going to start 'filtering back in' towards the end of September - which means at least some of them after that.
Different to the stories we've been fed before. More economy with the truth.
I didn't renew my season ticket this year for the first time since the Riverside opened, & I was a season ticket holder at A/park for 10 years apart from the last season there due to work commitments.
I have been impressed with everything SG has done at MFC apart from the last two years when I think his decisions have been poor in a footballing sense.
But a lot has been said about the recent problems with money. AV, I am still at a loss as to what happened to the £30m each PL club got when the new deal was signed last season.
SG has also stated in the past that he uses money from his far east interests to fund MFC. That allows overseas earned profit to be brought back into the UK, with only 10% tax instead of 40% as long as it is used to fund a loss making UK company. So he benefit's from 30% tax relief from the UK government.
The ground was built & paid for by the Teesside Development Corporation through grants including some from the EU, as was the expansion of the corners.
We had 8 years of sell out season ticket sales, three cup finals, two promotions (also one relegation). Robson's spending over seven years averaged £7m per season if you take the ins/outs. We had the success of winning Carling Cup & two European adventures ending in defeat at Enidhoven, we also had 2 FA Cup semi-final defeats under McClaren.
I witnessed some of the best football played in a MFC shirt in that 10 years, I have seen in all my time as a supporter (1st season 1966/67 promotion from old 3rd division as runner's up to QPR).
But I have lost a lot of respect for SG with statements made to get fans to back him only for those to be proved without foundation. It seems to have all gone pear shaped since the start of the hotel/golf course development, coupled with the massive downturn in the economy & banking sector which I am not blaming SG for by the way. But I still can't see how the development hasn't taken investment away from MFC, including that £30m from Sky last season.
**AV writes: Boro made £31 from Sky last year. Their wage bill was £32m. They took £8m through the gate and commercial activity but the stadium and infrastructure costs £4m a year to run. Bank charges were £6m. And there were slices of out-going transfer fees.
You mention sell out crowds under Robson but they were with a lower capacity and lower ticket prices - say £6m a year - yet even back then Boro were paying Ravanelli £2m a year in wages, and Boksic £3m and lot more in between. The Cup runs made very little in real terms. And transfer activity has been a deficit.
Basically Boro have never managed to cover the wage bill with income... and all the money spent on transfers has been added to the debt and guaranteed by the chairman and his company. Now it is time to pay some of that back.
What ever happened to our fantastic new scouting set up that was going to be the best in the game and scour Europe for new and emerging talent? Dave Leadbitter, Gordon McQueen, David Mills etc. Where is this talent? what have they delivered?
Some time back Gareth was quoted as saying "Wenger can pick the phone up to whoever he has got in Austria, France, Scandinavia or Germany and he has done that over a period of time. We had nothing in place when I took over like that. Don Mackay was chief scout.
"I asked for a list of targets when I became manager and we had a list but there was no database or anything else to back it up. There was a lot of work that needed to be done.
"We have got to look at bringing in young players. We always promote from within but we have never invested in young players and given them a chance of coming through."
There has been consistent underperformance at this club right through the Rank and file from top to bottom and for some time now. Players may have let Gareth down very badly on the pitch but the Directors fed him to the wolves when they gave him the job without any experience and never underpinned his inexperience.
The Scouting system has been a disaster and quite clearly was/is just jobs for the boys and money for old rope again leaving Gareth exposed. Southgate's own team selections and tactics were woeful and inept. Where were the people that were/are supposedly running the business and what the hell have they been doing for the last 3 years? The more you analyse it no wonder all Gibbo had to offer was "Blind Faith".
I don't have the heart to go through a timeline of recent pronouncments from the club relating to finances (we can be big players in The Championship, we can't get players in until we first get players out, to not being able to get any players in, even on a "free" because of the wages etc...).
I think AV earlier suggested the financial situation in the club must have taken a recent turn very much for the worse. That could explain what has been happening (or not happening) in the last few weeks. But if this is true, it strikes me the club owes it to us to let us know. Otherwise supporters might believe they have been misled all along, which might be incorrect if earlier assurances were true at the time but have been overtaken by inescapable events.
In that case - to events on the field: a late goal to lose at Nottingham Forest and a late goal to lose at Bristol City. Is there any chance we might begin to learn some lessons from last season, when we seemed to specialise in conceding late goals, or I am being a little harsh? We need to get it right in order to have any chance of getting out of this league.
I support the belt tightening and blame no individual - the entire context of football is changing radically and I believe there will be many financial causalities before long. I think in years to come we will bless the day that Boro changed tack and survived the storm which is on it's way.
I also believe that once we decided to shift to another model it would have been prudent to invest in an experienced manager with the nous to make the transition less painful.
The model the club is taking is not only the only viable one but also the one that will sit best with the forthcoming financial regulations driven by Platini.
What I don't get is SG making such a bold statement in May - this clearly raised the hope of many fans. Everything SG says is measured and he can never be accused of hyperbole. So why drive up expectations when he was unsure what would happen in the proceeding months?
Neither do I understand how the message the club put out can change so much in such a short space of time.
If what you say is true then how could GS plan/hope/want to keep hold of Huth? If Huth had stayed and Alves had left he would not be able to "have every scenario covered".
Have the club decided to filter the reality out so as not to cause total disaffection/outrage and risk damaging their start to the season?
Perhaps they felt that even without some of the big players we could still dominate this league and that once momentum was created and the team was winning it would be a lot easier to smuggle out some of the stars and the fans would care less?
As I say I think your analysis of the economic situation is spot on. However, politically, I think there is something awry.
**AV writes: I think one of the political problems is an opaque culture of secrecy that filters down from the top that fosters a seige mentality and an almost deliberate institutional estrangement from the supporters.
That creates a void in which it is easy for supposition, rumour and misinformation that could quickly be killed by a pro-active organisation instead to spread and fester and create a situation where we as a club appear to stagger from crisis to crisis.
How many more times!!!!!!!!!!
Mido is NOT off the wage bill. He is out on loan to a club that pays way below UK wages. By FIFA rules he must retain his existing wage level whilst out on loan so that means Boro are still paying him. Probably 90% or more of what he was on at the club.
If we are depending on getting rid of Alves before we can buy, and by GS own admission he has said he doesnt want to play for the club, then surely he is in breach of contract.
Are we still paying a fortune for someone who is supposed to be injured, but is just as likely to be on strike (he does have previous) just so we can save face and maybe recoup some transfer money?
What if we dont sell him and he still wont play, or wont give 100% (if he ever has), do we have to keep paying him? Football contracts seem to have rules all of their own, where failure is rewarded
However Lamby remains totally responsible for the demise of the club as Chief Exec. SG has his back covered as Chairman; GS is tied to Lamby's and SG's decision making process at the club.
The club, if viewed, as a business concern is an absolute disaster!
Result - a club trying to balance its accounts at the expense of delivering what week in week out spectators want - to watch a good football team that is well managed and wins games!
Three points adrift already – that grieves me!
Might finally get our wish now in these next few days if Southgate knows he is not getting his way with who he wants to bring in and finances. What`s the betting he`ll resign and have a new manager in charge for the Ipswich game on the 12th.
borolad32
Whilst I agree that Boro perhaps missed a few commercial opportunities during the good times, I don't think we would ever have been able to shift shed loads of shirts (whatever the quality), as we simply have never had the profile of a Man U or an Arsenal, even with the Juninhos and Ravanellis on board, and even with stirring cup runs.
Ok, so we suddenly got more exposure world wide thru being in the Premiership, but we were already light years behind the so-called big four and others such as Villa and Spurs in commercial terms. Also, despite the UEFA Cup runs, we could never compete with the usual suspects who perennially occupy the Champions League places. Their TV coverage worldwide and consequently their worldwide fan base have always been mega compared with the smaller fry like Boro.
I would love to see Boro shirts in the shops here in Lancashire where I live, but I've never seen one. And my point is that because we are a small provincial side, no-one from around here would buy one anyway - they've all got their local team to support and local pride is at stake. There are only the occasional Blackburn and Bolton shirts round here - occasional because the shops tend to stock Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, and for some perverse reason, Chelski. Twas ever thus.
Similarly, my bet is that if I went to Wolverhampton I wouldn't find many Blackburn shirts. Yet Blackburn won the Premiership in the early years and have had several European runs. Have they got a worldwide fan base? Or are they, like Boro, mainly of interest to people from the area where they are located? The way of the world - if Boro had somehow been able to break into the Champions League and stay there regularly, then and only then would we have been able to exploit the commercial benefits as fully as you suggest we should have.
Look on the bright side. We are in a play-off position (even though it really is too early to take much solace from that) and most supporters, whilst many hold serious reservations about the manager and about the way the club is being run generally, are behind the club.
But imagine if Wheater and/or Johnson were to be sold in the next 20 hours or so. That would be the tipping point beyond which things would get very ugly.
If there was one statement that would be communicated to Gibson this year, I vote for the following from AV (copied from above):
**AV writes: I think one of the political problems is an opaque culture of secrecy that filters down from the top that fosters a seige mentality and an almost deliberate institutional estrangement from the supporters.
"That creates a void in which it is easy for supposition, rumour and misinformation that could quickly be killed by a pro-active organisation instead to spread and fester and create a situation where we as a club appear to stagger from crisis to crisis."
[Gibson needs to act on that on September 2nd and change the culture of MFC or else the Riverside will be near empty.)
I am not going to embarass myself and try to pretend I know what I'm talking about when it comes to finances as the thought of anything to do with finances and numbers make me break out in a cold sweat.
However, from my simplistic view Gibson is being maybe unfairly accused of no longer caring about the club. The sad fact is that we have an entirely new era of football. When Gibson took over the club in '86 the thought of paying someone 150,00 grand a week or paying £24m for a (what i consider) mediocre defender would be laughable. As much as I love football I will be the first to admit that it has unfortunatley turned into a soulles game.
At the end of the day Gibson is a business man and he needs to balance the books. I do agree however that the fans have, if not been lied to, been a bit misled. I accept things may have changed since May in regards to our financial situation, however was it not only last week GS confidently stated he had cover in mind for every scenario?
Before Gibson loses the faith of the fans completely he needs to be honest about the state of the finances as not doing so is an insult to the fans. At the end of the day I will support the club regardless of their financial situation or league position, as I'm sure is the case for most of the fans. Huth and Tuncay have both cited the atmosphere created by the Stoke fans as a factor in their switch, we need to make sure we do the same at the Riverside this season (even if we do sign Webber, who quite frankly I have a better goalscoring ratio than!)regardless of how frustrating the overall situation is.
Up the Boro!!!!
Well spotted Frank, must have lots of time on your hands. The Mags are now top and we have dropped a place so that part is sorted.
Todays tester: well no sale of Johnson or Wheater thats great news. Wonder if £10 mil would change that but good news all the same.
Hulse still a target well thats something but Derby,valuation of £3m is far too much if you take into consideration £3.1m is what Leeds wants for Beckford. Hope Alves has swallowed his pride and signed by now as time is running out for us.